The Alternate Timelines of Warhammer Where The End Times DIDN'T HAPPEN - Lore
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2023
- Did you know there's timelines in Warhammer Fantasy where the END TIMES never happened? Obviously the Storm of Chaos is one of them but there are others! Let's have a headache today and discuss! A bit of a Warhammer multiverse day!
The Alternate Timelines of Warhammer Where The End Times DIDN'T HAPPEN - Lore
#warhammer #fantasy #lore
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Something very different because why not? :D
You forgot Blood Bowl in itself is it's own timeline.
I imagine the 4 chaos gods as a roudy group of dnd players, and the warhammer settings as their playtable. they take turns dmming.
You forget about the adventure of The Enemy Within, from the 1st edition of warhammer role. In it Karl Franz dies and is succeeded by Heinrich Todbringer, son of Boris Todbringer, who turns out to be a descendant of Sigmar from his mother line.
@@shadeblackwolf1508khorne beat the previous GM (probably Tzeentch) for breaking the setting?
@@alexandrejose8362 Nurgle sat back in his chair.. This.. this wasn't possible. Never had they been denied like this before. and by one of their favorites no less.
Khorne flipped the table. This was an absolute outrage! This quickly turned into a brawl between the younger siblings, as Slaanesh' drink went flying.
Tzeench used the commotion to make scarse, a copy of his favorite setting safely in his briefcase to bring back to the playtable when the time was right. He was certain they'd all come around, and return one day.
Perhaps from a different point in time, perhaps from their abandoned campaign after the storm of chaos. only time would tell, and he had all the time in the world.
Wake up kid. What? End Times? Killing the setting? Throwing deep lore away without a reason? Chill out kid that was just a nightmare
Now let’s grab a beer and watch that dwarf yell racial slurs at elf diplomats!
Just an illusion created by The Chaos Gods who could not defeat the 'Forces of Order' by conventinal means.
Oh they had a reason. They were selling space marines more than any other 40k model at the time and thought, “how do we insert the exact same concept in fantasy? Kill everyone off and reboot the setting!”
As someone who got into Warhammer fantasy from Warhammer 3, hearing about how pathetic the deaths of a ton of major players were almost made me quit immediately
@@Amenema Actually, it was more about copyright and such.
You know what - actually there is a case in tabletop games industry when developers just said - "Ok, there was no end of times". White Wolf Publishing just reverted their apocalypse for the Old World of Darkness because their "Age of Sigmar" (New World of Darkness) was not as popular as their previous product. And they published a new edition of Old World of Darkness (still beloved by players a lot). So, at least we have a precedent.
Changing the Lost and Demon the Descent are great.
We already have a Warhammer Multiverse well established. Two words - BLOOD BOWL!
This!! I watched the video to see if Blood Bowl turned up…..they have their own confirmed multiverse.
Warhammer Age of Reckoning straight up replaced Archaon with a Tzeentch champion called Tchar'zanek. The Swords of Chaos became the (player lead faction) Ravenhost.
Lord is Tchar'zanek way cooler than Archaon.
Fucker even managed to ally with Malekith who in turn managed to mind control a powerful Orc Warboss (And his Night Goblin Shaman best friend.) who he empowered to go around an forge a massive and mighty Waaagh under his command, creating a 3 way Alliance to fuck with Order Forces (Who in turn did kinda the same, The Dawi, Empire, and High Elves all allied as well.).
The stuff about chaos being the same across reality is referenced even recently, not older lore. In the 40k plague war series one of the Nurgle Great Unclean Ones talks about how they're spread out across multiple realities so unable to help much with Ku'Gaths plans for Ultramar.
It was referenced in Farsight: Empire of Lies as well. This was where Farsight recieved various visions about chaos where the finale of them was the universe being destroyed, the Chaos gods having a laugh, and then moving onto another one of infinite universes to torment.
You mean the demons were spread or that one demon specifically?
I don't know if one demon can exist in multiple realities myself.
@@skyro0412 All daemon by the sound of it. It's the named guy you can make from the great unclean one kit. The way he's casual about it makes it like all daemons can do that, or at least strong/named daemons can. I guess it's that their will and presence is so strong in the warp they perceive the multiverse the realm of chaos connects to and able to put parts of themselves into it like the chaos gods do. Means they can do more but it's less focused and they're weaker.
In 40k two Factions have critical lore around Time Travel. Orks have the Legend of the Lost Waaagh where a Warboss killed his past self just because he wanted another copy of his Kustom Mega Blasta and the Inquisition have a whole minor ordo called the Ordo Chronos who are odly dressed eccentics that investigate Time Travel phenomina in funny shaped drop pods that can somehow warp jump.
You forgot a big one. Bloodbowl is an alternate warhammer fantasy timelime, and one in current production at that.
I hardly believe End Time is canon when my Lizardmen united Lustria and saved everyone's ass everytime in my Immortal Empire campaign.
In Storm of Chaos only a couple of characters (created for SoC) actually died. Garagrim Ironfist, squashed by a chaos giant he killed in Praag and Valten (supposedly assassinated by the Skaven after barely surviving Archaon).
Also, Grimgor defeating Archaon came completely out of the blue (he basically materialized his army to the battle outside Middenheim then faded away…). The results of the campaign NEVER SUPPORTED chaos going that far. Archaon kept losing each and every day, yet his host marched on in the most railroaded way possible. The fact he was defeated by the orcs (b cause… PLOT TWIST!) instead than the people who kicked his ass all the campaign was just the final insult to GW’s abysmal handling of the Storm of Chaos.
Well Storm of Chaos was set up to where the results of events that they held where players played games affected the story so chaos got its shit pushed in because forces of order players were dominating the Tournaments
I would love to see the story line pass the Karl Franz era and move into a new era with new dilemmas and intrigues for the various nations. Honestly in my opinion it was what they should of done to begin with. Keep the setting but create a world altering event like the emperor of man dying in heroic battle. A civil war in the empire and a chaos invasion to boot. Something like that could have a ripple effect through out the world. After all Chaos creates change and great stories even in our world.
I would take it one step further. I would have a distant descendant of the last Elector Count of Solland living in Nordland rise to the rank of General and be a great leader. Winning impressive battles against the enemies of the Empire and fostering diplomatic solutions with empire foes. Eventually the people demand he become the new Emperor. This creates opportunities for cool themed armies like the Descendants. An army of Solland descendants. Lots of political intrigue with Elector Counts not thrilled with this usurper. Could lead to great stories and themes. After all what is Warhammer but stories.
And that would be a good way to advance the plot. Seems that GeeDubz has two modes for stories in Fantasy:
a) write some small scale skirmishes but nothing really changes
b) screw everything, we're nuking the setting
Storm of Chaos could make a good starting point for continuing the story in a way you mentioned.
Yeah I wanna see WW2 era weaponry no nukes that be easy and the kriegsguard already have WW1
Honestly this is sounding really cool, seeing the Endtimes not happen and seeing what happened after the Storm of Chaos.
I honestly would love to see a Post-Endtimes book/game where the world didn't blow up and instead the world is corrupted by Chaos, almost all civilization is destroyed, and the Humans, Dwarfs, Elves, Lizardmen, etc. just trying to survive a Chaos corrupted world full of mutants, Chaos Warriors, and other beasts and monsters.
Think something like Stalker, Metro, Fallout, and Skyrim all combined together and it's a good representation of what I'm imagining here.
Hiding in the Underway Tunnels bellow Altdorf. The surface is polluted with Chaos Corruption and roving warbands. Constant Skaven and Greenskin attacks, etc.
Read the Warhammer Fantasty Roleplay books - they are based post Storm of Chaos
@@charleslister8465 4th edition is based on the time right before End of TImes
@@something_really_original Sorry I should have said 2nd edition
@@charleslister8465 oh, ok. And what about 3rd edition? Is it based on post Storm of Chaos too? I have so far only checked everything for 4th edition, planned to look over previous editions later
"Or we can go the warcraft route where nothing makes sense"
I wish this wasn't so true.
Vermintide 2 is an alternate end times, the recent karak azgaraz maps take place years after battle of middenheim, another in a long list of year gaffs
The way they say “7 years of battle” is likely just referencing the game has been out for that long since it’s 2016 launch(and reused Karak map from then) and they went with the cheeky response rather than paying attention to dates.
@@ce4879 they provide an ic date thats past the battle of middheim
@PiratePyroFilms
Do they? Everything I’ve seen about it is just fans taking that one loading screen line about the 7 years and adding it to what they can piece together is the current time. Haven’t seen an official number though even in their chronicles.
I would say Vlad (or Isabella) popping up where the author want is one of the things who should bother no one. The realy strong vampires are almost impossible to kill forever for sure. At least that was said in the vampire-lore-book in Warhammer RPG, and I think that make sense.
I'm still huffing copium over The End Times to this day.
With my friends we still say that end times never took place!
Because they didn't happen!
I've always considered everything beyond 5th/6th Ed an alternate timeline anyway. That's when most the originators ran off and it became the "ward" of others.
Grimgor kicking Archaon in the nuts is canon in my book. Storm of Chaos all the way!
Do note that he only did this after Archaon was exhausted fighting in other duels
@@excessiveone9952 That's correct, but still... he kicked Archaon in the nuts. He truly iz da best.
He headbutted him, not ballz knockin time! Afaik.
@@goransekulic3671 Allright, allright, have it your way.
The point is that Archaon never fully recovered from this humiliating defeat. After retreating to the Chaos Wastes, he devised a devious plan for his revenge - he wrote a series of books named "The End Times"!
@1ochotnik shockingly Tzarina Katarina basically soloed Waagh Grimgor once
This Bretonnian Knight was in fact Lion El Johnson going for his daily forest walking
think they should actually do this have time split in two age of sigmar follow th ebad path and old world follow th egood path
The end of what ? Never heard of.
I REALLY would like this, honestly i'm new in warhammer and i feel really sad knowing that fantasy was already dead, but this things give me a little hope for a continuation in an alternative timeline
I like to think that every new TW Warhammer 3 campaign is a new timeline. They kinda have to be when you think about it.
This has always been the direction I wish they would lean. It would be cool if they eventually added true end-time scenarios. Like one special end-time outcome for each race if not each faction, plus maybe a few generic chaos/order/mixed outcomes that can be triggered by anybody under the right conditions.
Difrent timelines would be great idea
The old world shouldn’t have been set in the past but in an alternate timeline.
I am glad Warhammer Fantasy is back but knowing in game everything will go to shit in 250 years really puts a damper on my enjoyment.
I do agree it really wouldn’t have been that hard to just say “the old world is set in the same time line as storm of chaos” and be done with it
There was a pretty cool 40k reference in Belisarius Cawl The Great Work to alternative versions of individuals. Something to do with Necron tech
I don't think you'll find many WFB fans considering the End Times as canon.
GW did that only because they thought AoS would be the solution to WFB but as it turns out people want to play WFB, they just want it to be good and accessible to newer players.
There are many, many people who reject the End Times as canon as the whole AoS story.
It's not weird at all, it's actually even on the wiki where Storm of Chaos is listed as an alternative timeline.
At this point, I even think that if you put aside the people playing solely for the gameplay who don't really have any interest in the lore, you'll have a lot more people seeing the End Times as non-canon than the opposite.
The End Times was not only the destruction of a loved franchise, but it was also very bad on a story point.
I really love the concept of this to allow each setting to grow on its own and still have fun nods to one another. Very muc a topic I might discuss on my content in the future as well...because it is fun!
For me, i keep it simple, every campaign i play is canon in that time
The gotrek and felix novels should never have stopped being written by Willian King, I don't think Nathan Long was a good choice to continue them
I think Warhammer AoR didn't have to officially die. Just look at what they did with FF14 Online. The game was really badly received and its devs still revived it.
It's a shame AoR didn't have people like the later FF14 devs.
Still there's quite a strong private server going on (Return of Reckoning)
@@1ochotnik I know but they most likely don't have the equipment and funds for big extentions
Well, it's not true that GW never remove stuff (for what is intended to be) for good, and the shakeup from WFB3 to WFB4 remains massive. The new leadership, however, has shown an enormous willingness to bring back previously removed elements large and small (including merging even some WFB3/WFRP1 things back into the lore), so, yes, there's nothing stopping them from using post-SoC timeline for TOW in the future alongside post-TET timeline for AoS if both are successful, regardless of any current official claims that TET is gospel for TOW. They'd be exceptionally stupid not to do so, especially with infinite multiverses having become mainstream. (The occasional alternative timelines have been for decades.)
I gonna come out and say the End Times was actually a Drunk Wizard's Dream and I'm Not Changing my Mind about it.
4:45 I'm half expecting Leofric to appear in TW:W3 as a Legendary Hero for both Bretonnia and Cathay, because his Grail Quest took him to Cathay to save the wives of the dragon emperor from a chaos cult and slay a cathayian Jade Dragon.
Considering the current version of Cathay being ruled by dragons, I'd imagine his story to be changed for him to somehow be an acquaintance of Yuan Bo.
Makes things a little awkward as the firstborn of the emperor and empress is the Jade Dragon, and he administrators the Emperor's capital personally.
He's also the entire family's second-favorite member.
@@Schniedragon88 Yeah, that's why I'd imagine that part of Leofric's story to be changed, to say he offered his aid to Yuan Bo against a chaos cult or something, and then that story got misinterpreted back in Bretonnia
It would be interesting if they released a new Gotrek and Felix series in an alternate timeline that begins from their escape from Albion and ends with their return to the Empire. There are a lot of years unaccounted for in that period. They could have Felix and his sword getting them into trouble in Cathay.
3:42 I would also like to point out that in 40K the new von ryan leapers unit for the tyranids was first mentioned in the 3rd edition codex
What end times?
I use a alternative timeline in my Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay game
Would have loved this
There's a vary active Warhammer Larp community in Europe (esp. Germany) and there the End Times never happened. It's another alternate timeline.
imagine if Warhammer fantasy survived the end times and we got like 99% of the AOS models in fantasy. lets be honest all of the chaos models would effortlessly slot into a Warhammer fantasy chaos aesthetic, same with soul blight slotting into vampire counts, iron jaws and black orcs, sylthvaneth and you get the point. hell you could've made new factions born out of the end times like dwarfs taking to the skies after their mountain homes are destroyed wait a minute... pretty much every AOS faction could have conceivably manifested itself in one way or another out of the old world if GW really wanted to progress the lore instead of deleting and starting anew.
No please, no modern multiverses for Warhammer Fantasy.
Having different timelines for practical reasons when releasing video games or spin-offs like Blood Bowl seems great to me, but interconnecting them should be avoided at all costs. Warhammer fantasy must stay as warhammer fantasy: grounded on its own planet and time. If someone likes Marvel-style multiverses or D&D cosmology, they can play AOS, as it was partly designed to appeal to that kind of audience. But turning classic Warhammer Fantasy into a big multiverse would be a blunder and take away much of the plausibility and historicity that separates it from other fantasy universes.
I'm willing to accept End Times canonicity if they don't turn TOW into a multiverse in return!
AoS doesn't have multiverses.
@@mogwaiman6048 the mortal realms are literally a multiverse made in the image of the D&D planes.
@@nestorvetumbra that's not a multiverse. A multiverse is alternate timelines. The Mortal Realms are disc shaped worlds connected by realmgates. It's the same universe as whfb but a different setting.
Warhammer is partly based on Moorcock who extensively used.....the Multiverse concept....
@@charleslister8465 except AoS isn't a multiverse. Hysh and Ulgu have a rotation which creates the day and night cycle for all the realms.
Warhammer Return of Reckoning is the name of the server :)
Pretty sure I've read references where the chaos wastes also have funky time stuff going on.
Finally someone of some influence mentions this. I keep saying it, but ... yeah, whatever. There are basically two things here:
a) OFFICIAL TIMELINE: This is to be referenced when dealing with official projects, tourneys etc.
b) UNOFFICIAL TIMELINES: You can do whatever here. Progress something from the past(Age of Reckoning, Storm of Chaos, alternate Endtimes etc), change the atmosphere(Noblebright), do whatever as long as you warn others. DO NOT GANK PEOPLE WITH YOUR FANON! (what would happen if someone traveled back in time and killed Nagash?)
I personally don't care that much about a. Also, given that older books are still being sold AND that C7 still sells Warhammer FANTASY Roleplay, I don't really need to, do I? Not unless if I am doing something official(very, very low chances of that happening) or if I choose to do so(mostly on the behalf of others).
I'd love for a Alternate Campaign map or Total War following the MMO's world, what with Grumlok and Gazbag, Tchar'zanek, etc.
Belakor is the only character to appear in all three main timelines, Warhammer Fantasy, Warhammer 40k and Age of Sigmar
We would have gotten night goblin censer bearers without the End Times. 😡
Can you make this a series, maybe make your own speculative time lines
i mean... TECHNICALLY speaking
the end times only happened because the Chaos alliance got its ass clapped on the tabletop simulations and couldnt get past norsca
SOOOOOO in reality the alternative timeline is technically the correct original ending
This is the timelime i want to live in
The reality is Warhammer has been significantly retconed several times. The most obvious being between the 3rd edition WFB / 1st edition WFRP era and 4th edition WFB. The game and background was changed to appeal to a wider audience with the first boxed edition.
GW just doesn't care about the background of Warhammer. (Although they did in the past.) The writers even rewrote the histories of most of the factions before The End Times began, in order to attempt to make Age of Sigmar more acceptable to others. Just read the histories within the last Warhammer Fantasy Army books, they are quite different to that of the histories of all the faction/army books beforehand. (The writers couldn't even tell the difference between Warhammer elves and 40K eldar, telling us that all warhammer fantasy elf souls were destined for Slaanesh...)
I like the build up of End Times but thats about it. Imagine you're just a commoner when End Times happen.
I think there is a least five versions of the Warhammer World.
1st/2nd edition,
3rd edition/1st edition RPG,
4th/5th edition,
6th/7th edition/2nd edition RPG,
8th edition/Endtimes.
Still not sure if the 4th edition RPG should be it's own thing.
Of course there is also the video games and Bloodbowl.
I completely agree. Warhammer Fantasy world has seen some changes thorugh the years, some subtle and some quite significant.
4th/5th edition of WFB is my favourite flavour of Warhammer. Lots of lore created for the release of first Army Books for each race, by some talented GW authors including great William King. This era has 2 great video game adaptations made for PC and PS1 - Shadow of the Horned Rat and Dark Omen and a slight overlap with the last stages of the 1st edition of WFRP.
While 6th has a lot of good gameplay elements, nothing beats the Herohammer days!
@@goransekulic3671 I've seen a few neat ideas how to mitigate the problem with the "hero-" part, including syphoning army points from Characters into the Regiments. Up to 50% points spent on Characters? It was waaaay too much imo.
@@1ochotnik I mean, I liked the lore of that time the best(it was a perfect mixture of everything without relying too much on any of its building blocks), but the herohammer was problematic, yes.
2:12. "most of the known world had been destroyed", not really, only Kislev and a couple of the Northern Provinces of the Empire and Middenheim had been a bit roughed up. The aftermath was the setting for WHFRP 2nd edtion as well, and whilst wandering around Ostland was more dangerous due to roving Chaos warbands it was nothing like the End Times level of destruction. In retrospect I think it was a reasonable middle ground between nothing ever changes and an End Times level of change, although the ending with Grimgor just knocking down Archaon then walking off and Valten mysteriously vanishing were somewhat cheesy.
Las cannons on carnesour, yes please
I prefer my Total War Good Guy Vlad campaign timeline. Where he saved the empire from the forces of Chaos, and split the rule of the Empire with Franz and everyone was happy.
Aww, I need to play that again. I used to do it before he was patched and got a positive relations skills, now it's not such a pain, I don't have to give Franz my whole treasury each turn to make him like me.
So yes, Bretonnia has unified and dominates the Old World's west coast. The Wood Elves are subordinate kingdoms to Emperor Leoncour. The Skaven have been destroyed and only survive in sewer/prisons, and are only brought above ground to fight in gladiatorial combat against Knights in tournaments. The Empire of Man and the Empire of Couronne cooperate in suppressing the chaos lands. Vampirism has been driven back and the few that remain no longer can survive the light of the sun, making it impossible for them to form kingdoms.
I honestly just hope the old world does well enough the call it it’s own timeline and continue the story
The dwarves should be allowed to reclaim some parts of the KARAZ ANKOR
Age of Reckoning was a ton of fun! A little sparse on the pve endgame content and I didn't appreciate the 300 v 300 battles where stuff just stopped rendering so a group of fighters at the gates using a siege weapon would drop like flies b/c the aoe spells the defenders were casting from overhead... wasn't being rendered on the screen.
Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k are demonstrably not in the same universe.
Even if you ignore stuff like magic working entirely differently in the two (there's no 8 Winds in 40k) and the fact Fantasy gods aren't invented just because human believe in them (otherwise The Lady would be real), they are so thematically different they can't co-exist.
If Fantasy was in the 40k universe, that would mean not only does nothing that happened in Fantasy matter because it's just another Feudal World, it also means that every human on the planet is an irredeemable monster because they feel things, worship gods and think for themselves; creating untold murder Daemon in the warp.
It would mean there is no difference between Karl-Franz and Archaon because they both worship Chaos. The whole thing falls apart.
What people usually mean when they say "40k and Fantasy are in the same universe" is that Fantasy should change everything about itself to fit 40k, but 40k should stay exactly the same. And what would be the point of that?
The Warhammer World was never destroyed.
You got any source of those AoS lore bits you mentioned?
I know Gotrek wound one realmgate that lead to Warhammer World in the Blood of the Old World audiodrama. But he destroyed it at the end.
But the Teclis one makes me to doubt you. 🤨
He might be mixing up AoS Teclis with old Teclis from Giantslayer who saw bubbles of all kinds of different future realities play out.
Though it really doesn’t matter too much as the one Realmgate in Realmslayer noted even daemons didn’t bother reinvading because it’s future was set anyway to be destroyed. The AoS links there are less like alternates and more like a Last Save file right before the game over screen to justify why some old characters can make the jump over, 2016 Order Alliance book played with that a lot like the weird time flows in the Realm of Azyr had ancient people pop up in the streets speaking a dead language(so your Empire character could survive to the new setting as an example).
(Age of reckoning mentioned) DAMN YOU CURT SCHILLING.
golden age indeed
I hate multiverses and travelling back in time. In my opinion, it takes away the seriousness of choices and consequences. Like "oh no, I messed up. I know I'll travel another timeline/ back in time and fix it." 😑
Takes away any need for personal growth as well
Isn't Archaon the mary sue of warhammer?
Edit: and didn't Be'lakor make about 12 extra timelines just to keep Archie alive?
As many have said Blood Bowl is a defined Alt universe.
My nibba Grimgor could be alive.
If there would be an off remark about AoS characters deciding to create their great plan of building one world ahahah
Anything to bring back the setting and game of whfb. I will accept tweaks such as all special characters living in the same period like twwh.
Whooo nuke nut shot!
Yeah! Scree AoS!!
So age of sigmar is an alternate timeline
The only timeline that is acceptable.
Oh please, I hope it never happened.
Thank goodness this isn't the main thing and they went with Age of Sigmar.
Warhammer Fantasys lore is far more beloved and well-known then Age of Sigmar despite having been dead for nearly a decade
Nothing truly recon in warhammer except Fimir raping
I love the idea of a Warhammer multiverse, both in fantasy, 40k and AoS
As much I like GW books I don't necessarily agree with all the books being ebooks now for the books that they don't want to republish as it only leads to people going onto amazon & ebay and setting the price for the books at a silly rip off price.
The squats never left 40k. They were just refugees.
Will this be a Mandela effect? End times? What’s that? The setting never ended it’s right here.
Don't really care about alternate verses if they are well written and bring me more Warhammer
The end times never happened it was a dream of the Skaven
Good i hope old world take off. But its been left far to long now 😕 the iron is no longer hot.
Let's show to GW that they can't kill WH Fantasy !
We already did and we are going to finish that job! They are going to relent. Just like they did with The Old World.
Alternate timeline? What are you talking about, it's the end times that's just big weird fan fiction
_YEET A STORMCAST ETERNAL BACK THROUGH TIME I WANNA SEE THE RAMIFICATIONS OF THAT_
Also I am very interested in Age of Reckoning now.
Also I'm not entirely sure how canon Immortal Empires should be considered but I also didn't get into Warhammer Fantasy until _That Game,_ Total Warhammer III, there was a free weekend earlier this year and a friend got it for me so we could keep playing our campaign that. we didn't end up continuing.
So there could already be issues in 1 and 2's main campaigns.
Honestly GW should just embrace alternate timelines/universes as IMO it would probably massively reduce the some of the bitterness revolving around the end times/Age of Sigmar for certain parts of the community and it will also allow them to more easily create new content involving the old world.
Too bad they said the old world is in the end times timeline, if they said the opposite I might have actually cared for it.
loved that book when it came out, want some of the elf wine
"age of sigmar is the current-" NO. Look, I hate age of sigmar in every way I think it looks terrible, is embarrassing, but if someone out there does like it should be obvious that it has basically nothing to do with warhammer fantasy. I could have tolerated its existence if GW didn't stupidly try and insist this to be the case like say Disney with star wars or CBS with star trek. You can give AoS slightly more slack because at least it's from the same company but I can't see any link to warhammer fantasy that's worth speaking about, and doesn't enrich either setting, it makes them both look worse.
You'd think they'd learn the lesson about how stupid "advancing the narrative" is in a wargame setting.
I played 6th 7th and 8th and I do not really get the love for the 6th edition ruleset, the movement was terrible and most infantry useless if they were not steadfast or unbreakable, I really enjoyed the later editions more.
6th is what most people call fluffhammer it had lots of scenarios, fun lists, etc. 8th got competitive which I also enjoyed but steadfast made 8th cashhammer
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges oh do not get me wrong the scenarios were fun but as a former Lizardmen player i was pretty glad that infantry blocks got more viable, I would not like to go back to 6th edition where cavlary and shooting reighns supreme, monsters have no thunderstomp and models that are killed in combat can not strike back.
The game just got more diverse in 7th and 8th, People just like to pretend like everyone had to field 3 blocks of 60 skavensalves for some reason.
I had a dream WHF was back and the end times and AOS was wiped from existence and everything was good and then I woke up.
Wouldn t an alternative timeline just be used to "ignore" the End times?
I think it would unnecessarily complicate matters, as it has no real function other then what I just mentioned. I get that it can get mentioned in stories in aos, 40k but to really use it to created a new universe. I have my doubts.
But that is just my first feelings about it of course.
When did GW retcon Storm of Chaos? This is the first time I've heard that.
Doesn't the End Times directly contradict the Storm of Chaos? I never was much of the End Times buff, but I was under the impression that it's exact the same invasion led by Archaon as in Storm of Chaos, but with wildly different outcome (destruction of the Warhammer world instead of pyrrhic victory of Order over Chaos).
Storm of Chaos like The Eye of Terror was both campains where people sent in their result to games-workshop. While 40k had their continuation with Gathering Storm and the Fall of Cadia that is the result for the Eye of Terror Campain, The result for Storm of Chaos had a massive win for Chaos in general. So even if both Eye of Terror and Storm of Chaos has their own story in the book spereratly, the result we had was later played out in the End Times in fantasy.
@@1ochotnik I always thought Storm of Chaos was Archaon's first try and End Times was his second try. The two don't conflict.
It is not like he died in Storm of Chaos. He just retreated after getting slapped by Grimgor. Wasn't the story always: After withdrawing, Archaon started building up his forces again so he could launch another invasion. At least that is how I remember it.
@GoatTheGoat They are set in largely the same years. And have conflicting named casualties. And have conflicting background lore reveals. Late WFB8 undeniably retconned and replaced the invasion of the 13th Everchosen in WFB6, just like late 40K7 retconned and replaced the 13th Black Crusade in 40K3, except for the latter only massively shaking up its setting instead of nuking it altogether to launch a completely different one.
@@twincast2005 I admit I never noticed that the Storm of Chaos and End Times take place in the same Warhammer calendar year. That is a very odd narrative choice. As I said above the two events don't have to be mutually exclusive.
The end times is a nice fanfic, I think.