i decided to reroll mage this season and learn it for the first time. the amount of spec/build swapping (to totally reworked playstyles) has been extreme i think
Great Work. you need to make a video about how to analyze in depth these simcraft builds and all these tools you use. Very small amount of players truly understand this stuff to the level you do and it would be cool to see how the theorycrafting is done.
Always really appreciate these updates and explanations and share your frustration with where frost has been so far this exp. I know not everyone is a fan of GS, but for me the second half of Dragonflight frost felt so satisfying to play. I wish they'd just riff on that formula instead of incentivizing these boring and unintuitive playstyles.
No. Fire is definitely going to be playable. It's just that Frost has the highest single target dps in the game comparable only to Enhancement (which is getting nerfs). Fire is going to be good. Not the best but good.
Hey Manather can you please also share the talent builds for the sims. Also stats seem a lot diffrent compared to Spellslinger in sims, like is stacking versa a sim bait or can it carry frostfire even further? Cheers.
This is more depth than most videos. So what's the deal now? Is fire frostfire the goat? is frost SS still even out in M+? it sounds like if you want to the RNG playstyle and less spamming of the bolts, stick with SS in frost. I don't play fire so I have no idea if it's out performing frost.
I’d be curious to know how it compares to arcane now in M+. I don’t like frost playstyle atm and have been sticking to arcane but it hasn’t been performing that well :/
Just to correct you a bit - I was running sims with Gosto and Xypher and iirc the standard IL build for FFB isn't terrible, it's still simming ~1.65m or so. I suspect we'll just collectively agree the boltspam builds do not exist in actual content.
Oh so i'm not dooming as much then that's nice to know I hate the boltspam (I played bolt spam in HM cause I don't have a Mythic guild and yeah getting top 100 on Rashanan is just pure luck + once there is movement you can forget this, also the variance is crazy it's just dumb at this point)
No idea the whole left side of the capstone is not good. Just get rid of deep shatter, fractured and chill, replace with cooler stuff, make glacial spike work with frostbolt modifiers and procs, and then buff splinter storm to like 40% proc chance for bf. Also make excess frost and fire stack up twice. And add a capstone for slick ice
Do we think/know whether fire overtakes arcane or frost for m+ for the general population? or is it still likely worse than them, you mention the aoe being decent, but I'm curious about a generic dungeon run. generally not a fan of the fire mage we have had since mid/late shadowlands with the shift to an uptime spec vs burst on a 1 or 2 min cd, skb was a fairly significant part of that to me.
I really don't like fire either. I'm just glad arcane is in a good spot, and that frost as an alternative is decent, because I'm not a fan of how fire plays.
It probably won’t. The living bomb build with sunfury is currently the highest damage for 8+ targets that mage can achieve but its single target is bottom compared to every other mage build. I’m honestly interested in the FF changes, maybe ignite builds might make a comeback. And I also enjoy SKB
Skb is a major part of what makes fire enjoyable for me. I always liked the rotation, but the reliance on how the tank pulled before they increased combustion uptime and introduced skb was absolutely terrible. Also fire burst is good, even with skb. Just quit complaining seriously
@@alexis1156 You have never played fire before all those changes if you even remotely find this bursty or are clueless what burst means, the nature of always having a combust or working towards a mini combust in it's very essence is not "burst", it's an uptime spec, old fire is closer to current arcane, with SKB and even UI; you're constantly doing a little bit of damage, not in a massive burst, he also asked for opinions, so piss off with your 'stop complaining', you can play what you want, but that doesn't mean everyone enjoys it, FWIW both options for fire are terribly designed, honestly the whole spec is a mess and I won't be playing fire unless it's significantly better than arcane and frost
Did they actually make the gameplay worse now, munching Winter's Chill? I guess I will have to play a suboptimal build for the entire expansion, because the mage dev is obsessed with frostbolt. However it will be interesting to see the extra Comet Storm CDR in action for Frostfire. These kinds of class changes give me a reason to log in and raid even after it's gotten a bit stale.
I still refuse to play boltspam and will just play standard, but thank you and the mage community for running those sims. Let's just hope blizzard realizes the shitshow that is going on with the spec some time soon.
More consistency is nice but… I dunno. My overall impression of this hero talent system is that it did nothing but create a bunch of visual noise so we can’t see anything, create tons of RNG to the point where the server lags, and forced more WeakAuras upon us. I said it during beta and I’ll say it again: It’s total failure. I hope they remove it completely.
FFB ST: www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/mage/frost/frostfire/DAPFYAlYQZQEQiQFVQCQQNVVEVFYSVFEVQUAEFVVUBB
Standard ST: www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/mage/frost/frostfire/DAPFYAlYQZQEQiQFVQCQQNVVUVVIQZFRVAUAEFVVUBA
M+ (Deaths Chill actually good this time): www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/mage/frost/frostfire/DAPFZBFYQRUFQiRBVQCQENVVUVVJQVVFERQAEFVVUBA
M+ (non deaths chill): www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/mage/frost/frostfire/DAPFZBFYQRUFQiRBVQCQENVVUVVFQZVRUBQAEFVVUBA
i decided to reroll mage this season and learn it for the first time. the amount of spec/build swapping (to totally reworked playstyles) has been extreme i think
On the other hand for the rest of the expansion I can say I'm comfortable at any hero talent/spec combination 😂
Ikr.. bro blizzard disgusts me
Welcome to mage. It’s been like this for 3+ expansions if not longer.
boo hoo you keep getting reworks. meanwhile brewmater. havoc DH havent been touched for years
@Catdaddy836 and your idea is to talk down to us and on a mage video instead of doing so in the blizzard forums?
The batman of the mage community
He's the mage we deserve
was waiting all day for this man , u never let us down !!!
Great Work. you need to make a video about how to analyze in depth these simcraft builds and all these tools you use. Very small amount of players truly understand this stuff to the level you do and it would be cool to see how the theorycrafting is done.
Always really appreciate these updates and explanations and share your frustration with where frost has been so far this exp. I know not everyone is a fan of GS, but for me the second half of Dragonflight frost felt so satisfying to play. I wish they'd just riff on that formula instead of incentivizing these boring and unintuitive playstyles.
W take
thanks for covering the changes
@manather so for frost fire Frost..,. What would be the rotation and priorities for max dps?
wait did i see that correctly? Singeltarget frost ff and frost ss has 160k dps more than fire ff? so fire mage still unplayable?
No. Fire is definitely going to be playable. It's just that Frost has the highest single target dps in the game comparable only to Enhancement (which is getting nerfs). Fire is going to be good. Not the best but good.
frost does 160k more if you can stand still and spamcast frostfirebolt. In a real encounter scenario, they will both perform much more closer
Nice vid!
What about fire in aoe scenario ? Any numbers ?
Hey Manather can you please also share the talent builds for the sims. Also stats seem a lot diffrent compared to Spellslinger in sims, like is stacking versa a sim bait or can it carry frostfire even further? Cheers.
This is more depth than most videos. So what's the deal now? Is fire frostfire the goat? is frost SS still even out in M+? it sounds like if you want to the RNG playstyle and less spamming of the bolts, stick with SS in frost. I don't play fire so I have no idea if it's out performing frost.
can you post a link to those talent builds? also specifically a non-DC FF build (like one you'd use on court)
Should we will for a full guide for st and m+ rotation, gear etc?
I’d be curious to know how it compares to arcane now in M+. I don’t like frost playstyle atm and have been sticking to arcane but it hasn’t been performing that well :/
Just to correct you a bit - I was running sims with Gosto and Xypher and iirc the standard IL build for FFB isn't terrible, it's still simming ~1.65m or so. I suspect we'll just collectively agree the boltspam builds do not exist in actual content.
Unfortunately if we dont boltspam, they wont fix it and then it has to be maintained in sims, thank you for the standard IL correction.
Oh so i'm not dooming as much then that's nice to know I hate the boltspam (I played bolt spam in HM cause I don't have a Mythic guild and yeah getting top 100 on Rashanan is just pure luck + once there is movement you can forget this, also the variance is crazy it's just dumb at this point)
Why did they add Death's Chill in the TWW beta and why haven't they removed it yet?
No idea the whole left side of the capstone is not good.
Just get rid of deep shatter, fractured and chill, replace with cooler stuff, make glacial spike work with frostbolt modifiers and procs, and then buff splinter storm to like 40% proc chance for bf. Also make excess frost and fire stack up twice. And add a capstone for slick ice
is it just about the same as SS now or not worth it in raid or m+ ?
Do you have a build for frostfire frost mage for M+??
What talents do you drop for frostbite in m+ ?
I don't know if it was accidental but I didn't see a frost mage talent build for the Frostfire buffs.
pinned comment now, was in flux at the time
Do you mind posting the link to the FF Frost builds
Do we think/know whether fire overtakes arcane or frost for m+ for the general population? or is it still likely worse than them, you mention the aoe being decent, but I'm curious about a generic dungeon run.
generally not a fan of the fire mage we have had since mid/late shadowlands with the shift to an uptime spec vs burst on a 1 or 2 min cd, skb was a fairly significant part of that to me.
I really don't like fire either. I'm just glad arcane is in a good spot, and that frost as an alternative is decent, because I'm not a fan of how fire plays.
@@lolcat5303 Actually, frost is currently way better than arcane
It probably won’t. The living bomb build with sunfury is currently the highest damage for 8+ targets that mage can achieve but its single target is bottom compared to every other mage build. I’m honestly interested in the FF changes, maybe ignite builds might make a comeback. And I also enjoy SKB
Skb is a major part of what makes fire enjoyable for me.
I always liked the rotation, but the reliance on how the tank pulled before they increased combustion uptime and introduced skb was absolutely terrible.
Also fire burst is good, even with skb. Just quit complaining seriously
@@alexis1156 You have never played fire before all those changes if you even remotely find this bursty or are clueless what burst means, the nature of always having a combust or working towards a mini combust in it's very essence is not "burst", it's an uptime spec, old fire is closer to current arcane, with SKB and even UI; you're constantly doing a little bit of damage, not in a massive burst, he also asked for opinions, so piss off with your 'stop complaining', you can play what you want, but that doesn't mean everyone enjoys it, FWIW both options for fire are terribly designed, honestly the whole spec is a mess and I won't be playing fire unless it's significantly better than arcane and frost
Did they actually make the gameplay worse now, munching Winter's Chill? I guess I will have to play a suboptimal build for the entire expansion, because the mage dev is obsessed with frostbolt. However it will be interesting to see the extra Comet Storm CDR in action for Frostfire. These kinds of class changes give me a reason to log in and raid even after it's gotten a bit stale.
What is this, the 6th time this patch the bis spec/rotation changed? I quit raiding because of this.
I saw the thumbnail and got excited and then listened to you talk about it and lost my excitement.
Can’t wait to try it!! When do these buffs go live?
With reset
The fact that SKB is back completelly push me back ff
I still refuse to play boltspam and will just play standard, but thank you and the mage community for running those sims. Let's just hope blizzard realizes the shitshow that is going on with the spec some time soon.
Please do a FF frost guide!
Thanks for your videos! will be good if you set your voice to a clear tone i start enyoing and i finish anoying
Frostfire in raid gonna be the meta 😅
The GOAT is back, lets hope we all get some pretty damn good time playing as mage this Christmas QQ
Poggers
Why is fire in the dumpster fire every single patch?
Can they pls buff arcane .. wtf i dont wanna switch spec .. god damn we are so bad in overall only prio dmg ist nice
sleepy boi
At long last.
i hate SKB so much like pls i hate how that became a talent since SL... i am just gonna stick with arcane tell s2
More consistency is nice but… I dunno.
My overall impression of this hero talent system is that it did nothing but create a bunch of visual noise so we can’t see anything, create tons of RNG to the point where the server lags, and forced more WeakAuras upon us.
I said it during beta and I’ll say it again: It’s total failure. I hope they remove it completely.
why do u have so much vocal fry?
ruclips.net/video/Q0yL2GezneU/видео.htmlsi=gFKvGVGKRhw9wcKv
how did all specs go from super awesome to hot garbage over the course of a season?