Without getting into too many spoilery details: Act 3, go to Sharess Caress, then later House of Hope. Not gonna say what to do or get into details (unless you WANT spoilers?), but there's where to go.
I think they should make this route an official option that doesn't need quite as much percision for the execution, malicious compliance and loopholes are like half the fun of devil contracts
I like the idea of making the only way to bring her back, after killing her to fulfill Wyll's contract, is through Gale's Scroll of True Resurrection. Which would open up a dialog tree of having to apologize to Karlach (who may or may not accept your apology, based on dialogue options) and letting Wyll know that his conscience can be clear, now.
In true D&D fashion, they should enable players to loopholes in everything the DM throws at them. What is D&D if not the players flipping over every stone just to find the most favorable outcome in any situation
@@weebjeez I agree. I was utterly heartbroken when I went through the process early on in my first playthrough and when gale died later in act 1 and I got his scroll of true resurrection I had a lightbulb moment and wanted to try to use it on karlach because THAT SHOULD ABSOLUTELY WORK Alas, no...
Whether intentional or not, I don't think it should count as a "bug" because tricking warlock patrons is so par for the course in D&D - they trick you, you trick them. Unlikely to be patched.
or if they do patch it, id pay good money for them to get the writers, scrpiters, VAs, animators, etc to add this as a supported path, and have the characters react to the situation
How them words taste? But also very sad that they patched it because you are correct. By all accounts, Mizora should believe Karlach is dead, and there should be a special cutscene the long rest AFTER she gives Wyll the robes and Karlach is recruited.
side note, True Resurrection would also fix Karlachs heart and wash away her problem completely. The spell reads as such: This spell closes all wounds, neutralizes any poison, cures all diseases, and lifts any curses affecting the creature when it died. The spell replaces damaged or missing organs and limbs. The spell can even provide a new body if the original no longer exists. So yes, Karlach's entire plot would be solved by this single scroll if it worked as intended.
On a similar note, it would probably also fix the little tadpole problem we have. We're told that removing our tadpoles would kill our characters, but what if we had someone kill us first, then pulverize the tadpole and our brains before casting True Resurrection? It would give us our heads back, and I doubt it would resurrect the tadpole.
@@tccedwards76 true resurrection is a 9th level spell, if it cant fix it nothing can, by the time youre supposed to have access to it all of your problems should already be solved, the real answer is they never should have given us this scroll in the first place.
If they don't patch it. I want a consequence line to occur if they ever recognize this loophole. You collect the reward, Mizora leaves, And then you resurrect Karlach. Somewhere down the road, Mizora visits and chastises you and Wyll. But because the terms of the contract were met, you managed to find a singular titular loophole that Mizora angrily applauds you. Wyll is angry, but later is relieved that your actions spared someone a life of hell in Avernus. But Mizora makes it clear should you try such games again; she'll personally send you to hell herself.
I don't think this needs a patch TBH. I made a comment short while ago explaining what I did in more depth, but in my playthrough Mizora still recognized that Karlach was alive and I was able to ask her about it. The dialogue seemed to suit what I had done as well which to me makes this "loophole" something worthy of keeping in the game that only us true gamer devils are going to know how to exploit. ;)
@@breadogi7118 Oh, she absolutely could. She has Zariel's favor and any attempts to harm her does nothing. For as long as her patron remains in Avernus; Mizora has free reign. She's clearly a powerful creature herself after all.
this is def not intentional, BUT, I hope that instead of fixing it in the next patch, they patch around it. Make it seem that Wyll *technically* followed the contract, and Mizora recognizing the wit of the action, thus pemanently breaking that specific clause of the contract. I really hope that this remains canon because you literally beat the devil in her own game, because her contract only binded him to kill Karlach, not make her dead indefinitely.
@@merisav4171 From what it sounded like, the mission was to just ensure that Karlach was dead, and even then, we can technically just employ same verse as the first by having Wyll use the same steps instead. Then we leave him at camp, resurrect her ourselves, and continue as normal.
Technically Neo died in The Matrix and the Oracle said he wasn't The One but "maybe in the next life...". It makes a good story. Karlach is only "mostly dead".
Patch 5: "Mizora should appear for her judgement of Wyll only when Karlach is actually dead. (Resurrecting her will cancel the moment.)" I guess it doesn't work anymore...
In 5e, True Resurrection is so powerful you no longer need the original body to exist. All you need a willing and free soul and a lot of gold and time. The soul is the most concerning hurdle because a claimed soul is not free, and someone who has commited suicide or is at peace with death is not willing. Failsafes are rare. Larian also made sure that Karlach was so loveable that players would seek such a loophole.
I could easily imagine someone willingly coming back after taking their own life, if the suicide was part of sort of convoluted scheme where they plan on being revived later and can't simply fake their death.
You say that like it's specific to 5e. In 3.5, you don't need the body either. On top of that, in 3.5, you can resurrect whether the soul is claimed or not. It just has to be willing to return to its body, and not even the gods get a say unless your DM says otherwise.
Unfortunately its not intentional, one of the situations you realize this quickly is when you're at party camp and wyll complains karlach is dead, on reverse Karlach keeps reacting as she'd been saved. From gameplay purpose the 2 seem quite independant to the rest of the game, need to see when mizora needs some "help" if things changes with both of them near each other at the same time.
My guess is that the decision to allow this or not was changed during development. I still personally think it won't be patched, but, I could be wrong!
@@elvenring I think its a bug that it works in the first place as it dosnt work for me the outseen wear he gets the rob will play but then it's gone and after I recruit muscle mommy wills owner shows back up to make him all horny
You don't have to leave Wyll in camp. You can have a full party, and before you go anywhere near the best girl in game, ungroup Wyll go with the rest of the party, kill Karlach, go back to where you left Wyll, group him, talk to him then ungroup, go back and revive her, run back to your group, get out of there, then go to camp and rest to get the robe. Less going back and forth from camp.
i didnt even ungroup wyll.. i killed karlach with him i believe the most important part here is to not trigger the introductory dialog with karlach.. engage her in combat without dialog (ex: range attack) kill her, revive her then long rest. ( do not talk to karlach throughout the entire process) after revive, long rest to trigger dialog with mizora.. then you are free to now talk to karlach again after this to recruit her edit: make sure to quick save before doing any of this just to make sure tho since this is not an intended process, you'll know because wyll still keeps saying he killed karlach
Or just initiate combat from far away, kill her, rest up, take robe, then revive her. Had Wyll in the party while doing all of that, dialogue proceeded as normal, but without Wyll getting punished But be warned: Only one long rest may be allowed, one more and I couldn't revive her. PS: you can find her head (which the "paladins" seek) in her own inventory, which I may go ahead and try taking, to see what might happen
This should be an official route, because it's valid to Wyll's contract: he is bound to kill heartless people, but there is nothing in there saying that the person can't be revived by a third person.
They completely patched this out. HOWEVER, they really shouldn’t have, because as you said, it’s a fucking loophole and that’s the whole point of the pact based warlock.
@@SebastiansSebastian-fc4pj Won't have to worry about that anymore lol. They've officially stopped patching the game (aside from things that affect the game to run at a basic level). So looks like most if not all bugs and/or exploits after patch 7 are here to stay
Larian is the kinda Dm That if You came up with an original, creative plan in their campaign he'd kick you in the shin before rolling the dice to see if it works
If you kill Astarion, you can revive him after. But if you kill Karlach, you can't. The ridiculous amount of pettiness from Larian, to make Karlach a whole exception for the sole purpose of not letting us outsmart their plans.
That's so cool I really wanted to prevent Wyll from growing the horns in my next playthrough but of course I cant permanently kill Karlach Thanks for the guide^^
They should make this loophole official in the next patch, with voicelines reflecting that. As a consequence for saving Karlach, make it so the DC for bargaining Wyll's soul out of the contract in Act 2 require a DC of over 20 and have Mizora summon Myrmidons or greater Elementals in the Iron Throne instead of the spiders so players are still "punished" for tricking her by making the rescue of Ravengard extremely difficult.
The thing with the Infernal Robe is even weirder: The one time you'd *kinda* want to do it would be an evil run but.... Wyll won't stick around for that.
Yeah except the spell is supposed to work on ANYONE. Hell, there should be an option to use it on the one tiefling that was killed in the first goblin attack on the grove!
This should be expected. While beating the devil's contract 'should' be valid; At this point, Larian would have to rewrite and rerecord entirely new voice lines to embrace it as an accepted route to resolve the contract.
Its so dumb they shouldve added a dialogue line to this lol, mizora shows up and karlach is alive she would be like wtf she is alive liar 😂, and you could say we DID kill her but brought her back you never said she had to stay dead, we did what you asked, be more expecific next time 😂 its the perfect loophole
I heard it causes issues in later points of the game so I'd caution against this or wait to see if the devs add an intentional way to get around it. Great suggestion I've seen is using the loophole that Wyll's contract was to kill Karlach but it never said anything about her needing to stay dead.
I really do hope this is intentional and isn't patched out because this feels like the kind of loophole technicality a devil would use in their contracts. Take Wyll's for example. One of the clauses lists the types of targets Wyll can go after (which he agreed to) of which one of them is "the heartless". Now you'd think this meant a heartless person who was evil or cruel...but in Karlach's case she is technically heartless as she doesn't have a heart and thus a legitimate target for his patron to give him without breaking the contract. ... thus pulling this kind of stunt really feels like taking a page out of their playbook because you technically did kill Karlach thereby abiding by the terms of the contract. Nobody said she had to stay dead.
Fully agree with this line of argumentation. That should actually be acknowledged by the NPCs in game, as it is such a nice 100% comeback on how Mizora "interprets" her contract with Wyll.
A loophole to that could be that the contract doesn't specify what kind of heartless. Technically karlach has a heart in the form of infernal engine, it's still a heart of sorts.
easy fix. just cut out a fresh heart and have her hold onto it, then cast a spell to preserve it or revert the eventual necrosis every so often and BOOM! she is no longer considered "heartless."
Still works after Patch 4. It would be awesome to see Larian make this official by having Mizora comment on exploiting a loophole (and skipping dialogue that wouldn't make sense). Maybe something we'll see in a definitive edition.
Nah, it was patched out....one of the few things I take exception with regarding Larian...sure it was a bug, but the bug didn't really hurt anyone and actually quite a lot of people liked it. Ah, but whatever...it is what it is.
So real quick this has been patched out. I've tired it the other day and if you tried this what happens 1. if you bring her back the same day the thing with him not getting horns won't happen. 2. If it does, then you can't bring her back to life. Looking it up many reported this didn't really work anyways. He just magically get the horns in the next act and it will assume you never killed her.
Honestly it would be sad if this gets patched. This is exactly the sort of loophole that should exist in an RPG is players are clever enough to figure it out.
Knowing Larian, the only patch they'd do is making this an official part of the game instead of an accident. So much roleplaying to be had because of it.
Thats great... until you remember that the reason why loopholes like this work in tabletop so well is because the DM is a human being who can react accordingly to situations the players throw at them on the fly. At my table I would absolutely run with a Pact Warlock finding a loophole in their pact, though I would not let them get away with it too often, as to do so absolutely ruins the point of playing a pact Warlock in the first place. The Pact is central to the class and if the player keeps finding ways to abuse 'loopholes', as a DM I will find ways to make that warlocks Power first unreliable, then fail totally when they need it most.... You do NOT get to keep the pro's and ignore the con's of a class at MY table... If you want a tabletop experience, go join a group. Do not look for that tabletop experience in a computer game because its impossible.
I've perfected this. Here is what you do, take your entire party with Wyll, and jump Karlach, don't let her talk to you. Once she goes down, talk to Wyll, then go back to camp, and remove him from the party. Leave camp, get as far away from Karlach as you can and use your regular old revive(or whatever it's call) and run away. She will reset to her location, you just don't want her to spot you. Then go back to camp and sleep. And then go back the next day and get Karlach. Some of the dialog is a bit off, so i don't think it was intended. But i really hope Larian keeps it in and fixes the dialog. Outsmarting a devil is a lot of fun.
He does in fact have to be in your party both at the time of the kill and the time of the long rest in order to be rewarded the robe, otherwise you will get the cutscene of him getting the robe but without the item, major bummer… but in my current play through I have Wylie without horns, Karlach not mad, and the rob on my sorcerer.
Player: "Hey Karlach, look at this cool robe I got you for killing you!" Karlach after doing the loophole: "Wait what?" Player: "Oh nothing, take the robe--"
did this and got pass act 2 with no problem, there will be some dialogue problem where wyll will talk that Karlach is dead but other than that no problem. Also something very important is that when meeting Mizura you need to have Wyll in your party otherwise you will not receive the robe even though the cutscene showed it.
@@elvenringomg I did this 4 times and couldn’t get the robe cause I sent Wyll back to camp. Thanks for the crucial info I already gave up unfortunately, maybe I’ll grab it in my 3rd play thru 😅
Little detail: the revivify spell (5eD&D) only works if less than 1 minute has passed since the creature's death. True Resurrection also has instances where the spell will fail. The creature can't have died of old age, the creature must be willing, the creature's soul must be free (not owned by anything like a devil), and lastly, has been dead less than 200 years.
This is what I was thinking. But Larian likes making things fun like any good GM and they might leave this in because it is fun. Some folks just want to watch the world burn... *looks at the 4 halfling barbarian vids* and a good GM knows that of their players.
@@anthonyp.4734 DM has to have fun as well, if they are not enjoying the campaign, the DM will stop running it.... I have wrapped up more than one campaign group because of players being overly obnoxious with the rules. As a result I control the worst of the Chaos my players might try to cause, not all of it, a certain amount of player induced chaos is a good thing for any game, but I do tend to crack down on the worst abuses, and I get rid of murderhobo's pretty much without mercy. If you want to play a murderhobo, you will not be able to do so at my table. In the case of a Pact Warlock continually finding loopholes in their Pact for example, the Patron might start making the warlocks access to the power granted through the pact first increasingly unreliable, and then finally fail altogether if they continue said abuse. People like to forget that the Patron can, and absolutely will react accordingly. Any good DM knows that a Warlocks patron is not just some invisible ghost that sits out of sight and out of mind. A Warlocks Patron is absolutely central to the Class, its a route to power that is closer and far more intimate than say a Clerics relationship with their Deity. So a good DM may let a Pact Warlock get away with such things once or twice, but they will absolutely hammer said Warlock if they try it too often. There is no way in hell I am allowing someone to play a class with so many pro's without them being affected by the cons at MY table.... Especially when the patron is such a good hook for later adventure paths....
This definitely feels intentional, it's just complicated enough to not accidentally do, but not so convoluted thst it feels like an exploit And that armor ability tho
sry for being a party-pooper, but it's same as recruiting Minthara without killing the Grove- an unintended Bug. I can tell cuz I've got both dialogs about Karlach's death and Wyll's punishment despite NONE of it happening due to this Loophole. In best we'll get a compromise with both characters being untacked, but no Robe and little minus to reputation with Karlach(for sending her to Hell). Tho should we really PUSH Larians into doint so? Like demanding such a little thing for ALL CONTENT WE GOT? Selfish. BUT since we can intentionally SAVE the Duke despite the contract, then we can do same with Karlach cuz contract says "Kill" not "Bring her to Mephistopheles". And I really want them both go to hell and beat the SHIT out of all devils.
@@fandango_boi Recruiting Minthara without killing everyone in the grove by just ignoring the grove and moving on to the Shadow lands is very much developer intended... there's literally unique dialogue from the Emperor and Minthara if this is the way you do it, in addition to all the additional dialogue and banter where Minthara/Wyll/Karlach mention/interact with each other that they put in the game
@@socialjihad5724 I think they were referencing the bug/loophole where you could have Halsin and Minthara as followers simultaneously. That was possible until Larian patched it and Halsin ended up dead in camp for people that went that route. Having both of them was not intentional. Skipping the Grove quest altogether and recruiting Minthara in Moonrise is what you're talking about, right? That one is undoubtedly a planned choice.
@@socialjihad5724 Oh there's the OTHER way? sry didn't knew, I thought about the buggy one. But let me tell you, that hearing how Wyll Regrets killing Karlach in context that he KILL HER FOR GOOD and then hear about his "Transformation" that never happend, it's REALLY depressing.
Small correction, in DnD True Resurrection does not work "no matter what". It fails if the soul is unwillingly, destroy, trapped (ie. Turned into a soul coin), dead for more then 200 years or died of old age.
I saw someone upthread say you can still do it if you recruit Karlach, kill her in camp, then rest to get Mizora and have Withers revive her after you get the robe. IDK though.
Personally, I feel like our character should have a persuasion test here when MIzora shows up. Persuade her by saying that Karlach actually does not fit the 'heartless' clause as she does, in fact, have a heart. A mechanical one made of infernal machinery, but all through out the game, everyone calls it her 'heart'. To make it "fair" maybe she make the charisma a little harder in than it should be, but still, it is a worthwhile argument, don't you think?
They call it heart because it do that job, but actually is an engine, a machine, so tecnically they are right when they say she is heartless, and the devils of course know that, Mizora is literally a lawyer here, is like the artifitial heart, it does the heart job and keep the blood runing, but at the end it's still a machine, not a real heart
@@craimaxblackit says in the contract "heartless" in a metaphorical way to interpret one without morals. So therefore a moral being like karlach does indeed have a heart. Using the metaphorical interpretation of what heartless is and not its literal form.
@@alexcavazos3341 no, Mizora just say heartless, it never specify if such statemen is methaporical or literal, so it can be use as both, and Karlach is tecnically heartless, so it count, as i said, is a lawyer contract, every single detail matter, just as this
@@alexcavazos3341there is no context in the contract. This means mizora can have it mean either of the options or both at any time she pleases since she is the one with the power
Her saying Karlach has no heart is a technicality in the contract, you can roll all the Nat 20’s for persuasion you like, it won’t change what’s on Wyll’s contract.
I can confirm that as of 11/3 at approximately 6pm this was not patched! I did it, and now I’ve got wyll (with no horns) Karlach, and my badass armor. Thank you for sharing your knowledge! It’s much appreciated 😊
Thanks for the fantastic content. I just tested this myself. Wyll doesn't need to be in your party. As long as the sequence is the same as mentioned in the video, you'll end up with the rare Infernal Robe. As of 2023/12/29 it seems this has been fixed by Larian
hope larian patches around it, let karlach address that you destroyed her but then let you justify that you did to deceive a devil that was hunting her. Then it would be perfection
Thank you! Literally found your guide randomly, as I'm about to reach Karlach in my second playthrough (Tactician). Karlach in that robe will be very useful I'm sure 😊
In response to text regarding the True Scroll of Resurrection: I would note that the means of acquiring said scroll is through a mephit that is instructed to create one using Gale's name. I suspect that scroll only works on Gale (though I haven't tried it on other companions). In regards to the method, you did this almost exactly the same way I did although I did it slightly differently for roleplay reasons: So long as you are not in view or in combat with Karlach (I had my party with main character at the Risen Road waypoint) I had Whyll "find" Karlach while exploring and just immediately attacking her (skipping the dialogue like you did). Once I killed her, I had Whyll return to the party and talk with the main character where he brags about killing Karlach and my main character kinda stays quiet and "sends Whyll back to camp" (not literally in a party sense since you want him in party for dialogue scene to get the Robe). Once he's gone with his mission complete, the main character decides to go to the scene of the crime and raise Karlach with the revivify scroll. After talking with Karlach it seems more natural about the "****er that took me out" and when she offers/asks for help taking out the Paladin I respond with "You want me to do you dirty work?" Kind of idea and just leave her be. Go back to camp, have the Whyll/Mizora scene and then the following day have a change of heart and decide to help Karlach after all. =P
Work up to the point you encounter a point of no return (creche or shadowcurse land). Then on your next reload the game will catch up and change Wyll to a tiefling.
To be fair, I'd keep this in the game for the pure ingenuity of it. Not many people would be willing to take this many steps for a single magic item that isn't in the absurd tier.
Im guessing this results in karlach making a bunch of refferences to wyll's non-existant devil form, since she's not supposed to be alive in the route where he remains human
they actually added a loophole to save Minthara, and purposefully made it easier to get minthara on the good route, so yeah..... *I think they knew we would find a way to make this happen*
They patched it out, I tried this method and after spending a long time on it (I wanted the robe for my warlock which is pact of the blade and wants to go melee and can't wear armor beyond light, and doesn't even wear light because mage armor is better than light, at least now) I went through patch notes of every patch, they patched it out in patch 5.
1:20 Actually True Resurrection has limitations, it can't revive someone that's been dead for 200 years for example, or if they died from old age, finally the soul must be intact, able, and willing to be resurrected. Revivify is supposed to only work up to one minute after death and the body can't be mutilated, but for game reasons they removed the time limit and restricted it to party members only. I did this trick once, they patched it out in Patch 5 or so.
I actually give this robe to my Dragonborn Draconic Sorcerer as compensation for him lacking any shield proficiency. This robe plus Mol"s Ring of Protection and the ring you can get from the Strange Ox are an awesome defensive combo.
I didn’t even consider the fact that Wyll could ever not get horns, simply because Karlach has always been to precious to kill. I’m definitely doing this for my next playthrough
I tried it after patch 5, it doesn't work, Myzora just doesn't appear. And if you kill her after speaking to her, everytime you resurrect her she will be forever hostile to you.
Yeah they totally patched it. Wyll will indeed wind up with horns and all of the dialogue options as if he had been turned into a teething eventually... For me it took hold when I got to the GIthyanki creche.... Everything after that and all character interactions or as if Wyll had spared karlach and never received the robe. But hey you do get the robe out of it before Mizora checks her notes and realizes that in fact the target is still alive. Truth be told devil packs in this game are the unfortunate victim of plot device armor..... Later on when you assist yurgir in getting out of his contract with Raphael, Raphael accuses yurgir of cheating by subcontracting out to kill his last Target instead of doing it himself... Even though there is no option in the game to simply go back and tell your gear for the last guy is so he could do the work himself. And there is no clause in the contract that does not allow him to use minions.... So yeah...
@elvenring I hadn't played the game since before the patches. When everything updated, I was knee deep in Act 2. Karlach and Wyll were still there. No idea how that worked out but it did...
It's actually so against the spirit of DnD for them to get rid of this... Pretty disappointing considering how much freedom is in the game is generally
@@Thiquid In early access, for years you used to be able to cast Darkness on any vendor before pickpocketing them and it would set the difficulty level for every single item to 0. That was patched out of the game a month after release. There also used to be this cool chest in the Underdark that would make every item in the game weigh less by turning it into like a spoon, ink pot, etc., and again some Einstein over at Larian patched it out by changing he weight of the chest from 10 lbs to like 200 lbs; basically making the reduced carrying capacity effect pointless. I have no idea why this game gets so much appraise for player freedom when the devs make just as many bad changes as developers from other studios.
29/11/23 - Can confirm this still works! Thank you so much! 💜 Edit: Since patch 5 it unfortunately doesn't work and Gale will retroactively be punished if Karlack is still alive! Here's hoping we find a new way!
Best reason I've heard yet to put a "Freeze" function in the game to prevent applying any future updates. This approaches the issue of who actually owns the game, tho I'm sure the fine print we can't remember agreeing to when buying the game gives Larian the right to change the code on our desktops without our permission. I was in IT long enough to realize that not ALL updates improve a product. Of course, Larian would never consider giving us that. Or, apparently, the Infernal Armor. Hey Larian, how about make a choice: take the damn tease armor OUT of the game OR, give us a way to kill Mizora. I'll take that trade. It would be a lot more satisfying than stuffing worg poop in her inventory.
They still let you disarm the Legendary Greatsword from the Githyanki dragon rider, so I believe they won’t patch it, at most they’ll likely just add some dialogue acknowledging it. Edit: Nevermind, they patched this, but the waaay stronger +3 Greatsword is still obtainable in Act 1.
Honestly a scroll of true ressurection could be used to save Karlach. If ypu cut out her infernal engine first. It regrows organs, or whole bodies need be
Officially? Ignore the grove conflict in Act 1 and just move to Act 2. You can recruit Minthara in Act 2 now. Of course Halsin and all Tieflings die because of this, but Karlach will not leave you. Optimally? "Minthara - Daugher of Lolth" mod. Save the grove, beat Minthara without killing her thanks to the mod and recruit her in act 2 as usual.
@@ninver6887 There are some exploits to keep Dammon (the smith) alive, but it's definitely not intended. This means you cannot actually complete Karlach's companion quest. Romancing her is also harder because the whole "cooling her engine so you can touch her" aspect isn't taken care of. In general not finishing the main conflict of Act 1 makes a lot of the game objectively worse.
I love the fact that...the armor piece Karlach is never meant to wear, is her best armor piece...in act 1 at least, I'm not super far in the game and am exploring as much as I can so I assume there's better stuff later but yeah that's awesome!
Scroll of true resurrection restores all hit points as well as bringing someone back to life, regular revevify scrolls do not. Anyway thanks for the tip!
What's sad is, there was a super simple workaround the devs could have taken and still given players the simple choice of helping Wyll fulfil his contract without keeping Karlach dead. We know Wyll is a warlock, so, when he said he will catch hell for it, just have players do a persuasion check on him, get him to spill, and then talk to Karlach. Let yourself be able to persuade her to die, in front of Wyll, and then just revive her. When the patron comes, just tell her straight up that, as per the contract, he needs to obey and kill her. You killed her, but nothing in the contract says she must stay dead. He fulfil his contract, Mizora gets pissed off, and will make sure you can't loophole her the next time she demands something, and then you loophole her. I mean, it's such an easy fix and I hope the devs add it in in future patches.
This feels like a big middle finger to Mizora and i am in for it. Now to find the big middle finger for Raphael
I mean... kill him?
I gotta get through Act 2 first😅
Equip an instrument to a companion who doesn't know how to play. Have them perform during Raph's boss music.
Without getting into too many spoilery details: Act 3, go to Sharess Caress, then later House of Hope. Not gonna say what to do or get into details (unless you WANT spoilers?), but there's where to go.
Talk to a person in his boudoir and use the knowledge you got from them when confronting Raphael in Act 3.
I think they should make this route an official option that doesn't need quite as much percision for the execution, malicious compliance and loopholes are like half the fun of devil contracts
I like the idea of making the only way to bring her back, after killing her to fulfill Wyll's contract, is through Gale's Scroll of True Resurrection.
Which would open up a dialog tree of having to apologize to Karlach (who may or may not accept your apology, based on dialogue options) and letting Wyll know that his conscience can be clear, now.
In true D&D fashion, they should enable players to loopholes in everything the DM throws at them. What is D&D if not the players flipping over every stone just to find the most favorable outcome in any situation
IT IS an official option, and no, leave it complex.
@@weebjeezThat would fix her infernal engine, too.
@@weebjeez I agree. I was utterly heartbroken when I went through the process early on in my first playthrough and when gale died later in act 1 and I got his scroll of true resurrection I had a lightbulb moment and wanted to try to use it on karlach because THAT SHOULD ABSOLUTELY WORK
Alas, no...
Whether intentional or not, I don't think it should count as a "bug" because tricking warlock patrons is so par for the course in D&D - they trick you, you trick them. Unlikely to be patched.
or if they do patch it, id pay good money for them to get the writers, scrpiters, VAs, animators, etc to add this as a supported path, and have the characters react to the situation
They patched it
How them words taste?
But also very sad that they patched it because you are correct. By all accounts, Mizora should believe Karlach is dead, and there should be a special cutscene the long rest AFTER she gives Wyll the robes and Karlach is recruited.
@@alexnicklay8626removing or allowing it?
@andrencfilho they fixed the bug and it's no longer possible to get the robe and have karlach
side note, True Resurrection would also fix Karlachs heart and wash away her problem completely.
The spell reads as such: This spell closes all wounds, neutralizes any poison, cures all diseases, and lifts any curses affecting the creature when it died. The spell replaces damaged or missing organs and limbs.
The spell can even provide a new body if the original no longer exists.
So yes, Karlach's entire plot would be solved by this single scroll if it worked as intended.
On a similar note, it would probably also fix the little tadpole problem we have. We're told that removing our tadpoles would kill our characters, but what if we had someone kill us first, then pulverize the tadpole and our brains before casting True Resurrection? It would give us our heads back, and I doubt it would resurrect the tadpole.
@@CinnamonVixen it would absolutely get rid of the tadpole, just have them throw you in a fire and it will make you with a completely fresh body
Eh, you could figure whoever forged the mechanical heart knew that, and set up some magic to get around those rules.
@@tccedwards76 true resurrection is a 9th level spell, if it cant fix it nothing can, by the time youre supposed to have access to it all of your problems should already be solved, the real answer is they never should have given us this scroll in the first place.
it also un-circumcizes you xD
Putting Karlach in that robe is the very definition of irony 😂
and BG3 just needed it patched out.. wonderful, as if fooling others inst the whole point of devils and warlocks
If they don't patch it. I want a consequence line to occur if they ever recognize this loophole.
You collect the reward, Mizora leaves, And then you resurrect Karlach.
Somewhere down the road, Mizora visits and chastises you and Wyll. But because the terms of the contract were met, you managed to find a singular titular loophole that Mizora angrily applauds you. Wyll is angry, but later is relieved that your actions spared someone a life of hell in Avernus. But Mizora makes it clear should you try such games again; she'll personally send you to hell herself.
I don't think this needs a patch TBH. I made a comment short while ago explaining what I did in more depth, but in my playthrough Mizora still recognized that Karlach was alive and I was able to ask her about it. The dialogue seemed to suit what I had done as well which to me makes this "loophole" something worthy of keeping in the game that only us true gamer devils are going to know how to exploit. ;)
Lmaooooooooooo, Mizora thinks she can take us?
I'd be happy with anything that gives me more chances to tell Mizora to go fuck herself
I actually think Mizora would like the loophole pulled. SHE isnt the one that ordered Karlach killed, so she'd likely be amused by it all.
@@breadogi7118
Oh, she absolutely could. She has Zariel's favor and any attempts to harm her does nothing. For as long as her patron remains in Avernus; Mizora has free reign. She's clearly a powerful creature herself after all.
this is def not intentional, BUT, I hope that instead of fixing it in the next patch, they patch around it. Make it seem that Wyll *technically* followed the contract, and Mizora recognizing the wit of the action, thus pemanently breaking that specific clause of the contract. I really hope that this remains canon because you literally beat the devil in her own game, because her contract only binded him to kill Karlach, not make her dead indefinitely.
technically, wyll didn't kill Karlach, so it can be questioned
@@merisav4171 _advocatus diaboli_
@@merisav4171 From what it sounded like, the mission was to just ensure that Karlach was dead, and even then, we can technically just employ same verse as the first by having Wyll use the same steps instead. Then we leave him at camp, resurrect her ourselves, and continue as normal.
Technically Neo died in The Matrix and the Oracle said he wasn't The One but "maybe in the next life...".
It makes a good story. Karlach is only "mostly dead".
welp, this aged poorly. ofc, larian will fix the horn loophole. now, its either karlach and horned wyll or hornless wyll but no karlach.
Larian gave us a big middle finger for giving one to mizora (they patched this loophole)
Wait really? So you can't do this at all anymore? Why?
@@onniebannon2895 yup not only did they patch it, but if you had already done it, they reverted back and give Wyll horns anyway….
@@onniebannon2895 it was pretty much a game breaking loophole
Lame.
Patch 5: "Mizora should appear for her judgement of Wyll only when Karlach is actually dead. (Resurrecting her will cancel the moment.)"
I guess it doesn't work anymore...
Nope, just tried it 😢
damnit
Sad...
You can however circumvent this:
- Invite Karlach to camp
- Murder her without dialoguing
- Initiate cutscene
- Revive her at Withers after cutscene
kinda dick move from Larian ngl
I mean, you did slay karlach, the devil never said she had to stay dead.
In 5e, True Resurrection is so powerful you no longer need the original body to exist. All you need a willing and free soul and a lot of gold and time. The soul is the most concerning hurdle because a claimed soul is not free, and someone who has commited suicide or is at peace with death is not willing. Failsafes are rare.
Larian also made sure that Karlach was so loveable that players would seek such a loophole.
I could easily imagine someone willingly coming back after taking their own life, if the suicide was part of sort of convoluted scheme where they plan on being revived later and can't simply fake their death.
You say that like it's specific to 5e. In 3.5, you don't need the body either. On top of that, in 3.5, you can resurrect whether the soul is claimed or not. It just has to be willing to return to its body, and not even the gods get a say unless your DM says otherwise.
Unfortunately its not intentional, one of the situations you realize this quickly is when you're at party camp and wyll complains karlach is dead, on reverse Karlach keeps reacting as she'd been saved.
From gameplay purpose the 2 seem quite independant to the rest of the game, need to see when mizora needs some "help" if things changes with both of them near each other at the same time.
My guess is that the decision to allow this or not was changed during development. I still personally think it won't be patched, but, I could be wrong!
@@elvenring Who knows, maybe they'll even add some voice lines and turn it into an actual feature.
@@LordOfLavendertown 🧐
@@elvenringI hope they patch it to make it official. Add in a voice line to react to them re living, and mizora being twice as mad
@@elvenring I think its a bug that it works in the first place as it dosnt work for me the outseen wear he gets the rob will play but then it's gone and after I recruit muscle mommy
wills owner shows back up to make him all horny
You don't have to leave Wyll in camp. You can have a full party, and before you go anywhere near the best girl in game, ungroup Wyll go with the rest of the party, kill Karlach, go back to where you left Wyll, group him, talk to him then ungroup, go back and revive her, run back to your group, get out of there, then go to camp and rest to get the robe. Less going back and forth from camp.
Can confirm!
i didnt even ungroup wyll.. i killed karlach with him
i believe the most important part here is to not trigger the introductory dialog with karlach.. engage her in combat without dialog (ex: range attack) kill her, revive her then long rest. ( do not talk to karlach throughout the entire process)
after revive, long rest to trigger dialog with mizora.. then you are free to now talk to karlach again after this to recruit her
edit: make sure to quick save before doing any of this just to make sure tho since this is not an intended process, you'll know because wyll still keeps saying he killed karlach
Or just initiate combat from far away, kill her, rest up, take robe, then revive her.
Had Wyll in the party while doing all of that, dialogue proceeded as normal, but without Wyll getting punished
But be warned:
Only one long rest may be allowed, one more and I couldn't revive her.
PS: you can find her head (which the "paladins" seek) in her own inventory, which I may go ahead and try taking, to see what might happen
@@choosenoftheeightfields3429 she has her own severed head? Lol that is awesome
Same with Nere, he has his own head in his own inventory :D@@jessed9145
This should be an official route, because it's valid to Wyll's contract: he is bound to kill heartless people, but there is nothing in there saying that the person can't be revived by a third person.
devils in the details you see.
They completely patched this out.
HOWEVER, they really shouldn’t have, because as you said, it’s a fucking loophole and that’s the whole point of the pact based warlock.
aw boooo they're allergic to fun
Gay
@@spicysalad3013 after Larian left they keep patching out items, by the time its 2030 there wont even be starting equipment left
Why do devs do this? Removing that ONLY makes the game worse
@@SebastiansSebastian-fc4pj Won't have to worry about that anymore lol. They've officially stopped patching the game (aside from things that affect the game to run at a basic level). So looks like most if not all bugs and/or exploits after patch 7 are here to stay
Us: "Haha stupid devil, no takesies backsies"
Larion: *"And I took that personally."*
If Withers stopped being neutral: "Look, just kill her, speak to thy patron, and I'll raise her."
they fixed it. you can no longer do this.
Big f
Larian is the kinda Dm That if You came up with an original, creative plan in their campaign he'd kick you in the shin before rolling the dice to see if it works
If you kill Astarion, you can revive him after. But if you kill Karlach, you can't. The ridiculous amount of pettiness from Larian, to make Karlach a whole exception for the sole purpose of not letting us outsmart their plans.
I'm glad
I heard that you can still do it, but Mizora will punish Wyll retroactively
That's so cool
I really wanted to prevent Wyll from growing the horns in my next playthrough but of course I cant permanently kill Karlach
Thanks for the guide^^
Great, I couldn’t take him being so... horney. :]
They should make this loophole official in the next patch, with voicelines reflecting that.
As a consequence for saving Karlach, make it so the DC for bargaining Wyll's soul out of the contract in Act 2 require a DC of over 20 and have Mizora summon Myrmidons or greater Elementals in the Iron Throne instead of the spiders so players are still "punished" for tricking her by making the rescue of Ravengard extremely difficult.
i love how the best armor for her requires her death, Trixy Dev.
The thing with the Infernal Robe is even weirder: The one time you'd *kinda* want to do it would be an evil run but.... Wyll won't stick around for that.
You pretty much have to run Origin Wyll or kill Karlach then still save the grove.
I took Wyll to kill Karlach for the robes then sacked him to BOOAL for the buff.
The scroll only works on fallen *companions* - if you murdered Karlach, she never became one
Yes and no, that's what's annoying about it.
Yeah except the spell is supposed to work on ANYONE. Hell, there should be an option to use it on the one tiefling that was killed in the first goblin attack on the grove!
@@ChargeQM Wait you can do that
@@ChargeQM Maybe her soul got sent straight to Zariel who immediately placed resurrection counter measures on her? Dunno, just spitballing here.
I agree! I guess the developers didn't want players avoiding the consequences of their actions.
Annnnnnmmmnnnnnnnd... they patched it 😂
This should be expected. While beating the devil's contract 'should' be valid; At this point, Larian would have to rewrite and rerecord entirely new voice lines to embrace it as an accepted route to resolve the contract.
Or... They could just leave it and let the players enjoy the game.
Its so dumb they shouldve added a dialogue line to this lol, mizora shows up and karlach is alive she would be like wtf she is alive liar 😂, and you could say we DID kill her but brought her back you never said she had to stay dead, we did what you asked, be more expecific next time 😂 its the perfect loophole
Top 10 gayest Larian moments:
I heard it causes issues in later points of the game so I'd caution against this or wait to see if the devs add an intentional way to get around it. Great suggestion I've seen is using the loophole that Wyll's contract was to kill Karlach but it never said anything about her needing to stay dead.
I really do hope this is intentional and isn't patched out because this feels like the kind of loophole technicality a devil would use in their contracts. Take Wyll's for example. One of the clauses lists the types of targets Wyll can go after (which he agreed to) of which one of them is "the heartless". Now you'd think this meant a heartless person who was evil or cruel...but in Karlach's case she is technically heartless as she doesn't have a heart and thus a legitimate target for his patron to give him without breaking the contract.
... thus pulling this kind of stunt really feels like taking a page out of their playbook because you technically did kill Karlach thereby abiding by the terms of the contract. Nobody said she had to stay dead.
Fully agree with this line of argumentation. That should actually be acknowledged by the NPCs in game, as it is such a nice 100% comeback on how Mizora "interprets" her contract with Wyll.
“You dare use my own spells against me potter?”
A loophole to that could be that the contract doesn't specify what kind of heartless. Technically karlach has a heart in the form of infernal engine, it's still a heart of sorts.
easy fix. just cut out a fresh heart and have her hold onto it, then cast a spell to preserve it or revert the eventual necrosis every so often and BOOM! she is no longer considered "heartless."
@@BaldiesAnonymous put in a jar of dirt!
Still works after Patch 4. It would be awesome to see Larian make this official by having Mizora comment on exploiting a loophole (and skipping dialogue that wouldn't make sense). Maybe something we'll see in a definitive edition.
Unfortunately it was fixed with Patch 5.
was it really?@@moonlightergaming8412
Nah, it was patched out....one of the few things I take exception with regarding Larian...sure it was a bug, but the bug didn't really hurt anyone and actually quite a lot of people liked it. Ah, but whatever...it is what it is.
No robe is worth hurting Karlach even a little bit.
It is
So real quick this has been patched out. I've tired it the other day and if you tried this what happens
1. if you bring her back the same day the thing with him not getting horns won't happen.
2. If it does, then you can't bring her back to life.
Looking it up many reported this didn't really work anyways. He just magically get the horns in the next act and it will assume you never killed her.
Karlach looks so good with the Infernal Robe
Honestly it would be sad if this gets patched. This is exactly the sort of loophole that should exist in an RPG is players are clever enough to figure it out.
Knowing Larian, the only patch they'd do is making this an official part of the game instead of an accident. So much roleplaying to be had because of it.
I find it infinitely funny that the item you get for killing karlach is the best piece of armor for her
There honestly needs to be loopholes like this just like how dnd normally has them. Its amazing
Thats great... until you remember that the reason why loopholes like this work in tabletop so well is because the DM is a human being who can react accordingly to situations the players throw at them on the fly.
At my table I would absolutely run with a Pact Warlock finding a loophole in their pact, though I would not let them get away with it too often, as to do so absolutely ruins the point of playing a pact Warlock in the first place. The Pact is central to the class and if the player keeps finding ways to abuse 'loopholes', as a DM I will find ways to make that warlocks Power first unreliable, then fail totally when they need it most.... You do NOT get to keep the pro's and ignore the con's of a class at MY table...
If you want a tabletop experience, go join a group. Do not look for that tabletop experience in a computer game because its impossible.
I’d rather shave my face with a cheese shredder than kill Karlach.
I've perfected this. Here is what you do, take your entire party with Wyll, and jump Karlach, don't let her talk to you. Once she goes down, talk to Wyll, then go back to camp, and remove him from the party. Leave camp, get as far away from Karlach as you can and use your regular old revive(or whatever it's call) and run away. She will reset to her location, you just don't want her to spot you. Then go back to camp and sleep. And then go back the next day and get Karlach. Some of the dialog is a bit off, so i don't think it was intended. But i really hope Larian keeps it in and fixes the dialog. Outsmarting a devil is a lot of fun.
I never get the Mizora scene. I've slept a dozen times and nothing. Ugh.
@@mikegonzalez8385 Looks like Patch 5 "fixed" it. It even retroactively gave Wyll horns in my other saves. I'm disappointed to say the least.
@@souliris What. A. Drag.
Appreciate the response. Cheers, friend.
He does in fact have to be in your party both at the time of the kill and the time of the long rest in order to be rewarded the robe, otherwise you will get the cutscene of him getting the robe but without the item, major bummer… but in my current play through I have Wylie without horns, Karlach not mad, and the rob on my sorcerer.
"I don't think they are Going to patch it"
They patched it.
Damn for real!!
Whoever patched this out doesn't understand warlock pacts at all 😡 They should have made the loophole a legitimate route.
Player: "Hey Karlach, look at this cool robe I got you for killing you!"
Karlach after doing the loophole: "Wait what?"
Player: "Oh nothing, take the robe--"
did this and got pass act 2 with no problem, there will be some dialogue problem where wyll will talk that Karlach is dead but other than that no problem. Also something very important is that when meeting Mizura you need to have Wyll in your party otherwise you will not receive the robe even though the cutscene showed it.
Ooh! So that's why some people are struggling in my comments! Great info!
@@elvenringomg I did this 4 times and couldn’t get the robe cause I sent Wyll back to camp. Thanks for the crucial info I already gave up unfortunately, maybe I’ll grab it in my 3rd play thru 😅
That's some Crowley level contract deal, always come out of the deal on top
Congrats, you just min-maxed one of the best stories in gaming. Also, those gloves on Zevlor that give blade ward are pretty dope too.
The Hellrider's Pride for anyone who reads this comment and are curious what he's talking about
"I don't believe Larian studios is going to patch this"
Recommended Videos: "How could Larian PATCH THIS?!"
Little detail: the revivify spell (5eD&D) only works if less than 1 minute has passed since the creature's death. True Resurrection also has instances where the spell will fail. The creature can't have died of old age, the creature must be willing, the creature's soul must be free (not owned by anything like a devil), and lastly, has been dead less than 200 years.
This is what I was thinking. But Larian likes making things fun like any good GM and they might leave this in because it is fun. Some folks just want to watch the world burn... *looks at the 4 halfling barbarian vids* and a good GM knows that of their players.
@@anthonyp.4734 DM has to have fun as well, if they are not enjoying the campaign, the DM will stop running it.... I have wrapped up more than one campaign group because of players being overly obnoxious with the rules.
As a result I control the worst of the Chaos my players might try to cause, not all of it, a certain amount of player induced chaos is a good thing for any game, but I do tend to crack down on the worst abuses, and I get rid of murderhobo's pretty much without mercy. If you want to play a murderhobo, you will not be able to do so at my table.
In the case of a Pact Warlock continually finding loopholes in their Pact for example, the Patron might start making the warlocks access to the power granted through the pact first increasingly unreliable, and then finally fail altogether if they continue said abuse.
People like to forget that the Patron can, and absolutely will react accordingly. Any good DM knows that a Warlocks patron is not just some invisible ghost that sits out of sight and out of mind. A Warlocks Patron is absolutely central to the Class, its a route to power that is closer and far more intimate than say a Clerics relationship with their Deity.
So a good DM may let a Pact Warlock get away with such things once or twice, but they will absolutely hammer said Warlock if they try it too often. There is no way in hell I am allowing someone to play a class with so many pro's without them being affected by the cons at MY table.... Especially when the patron is such a good hook for later adventure paths....
This definitely feels intentional, it's just complicated enough to not accidentally do, but not so convoluted thst it feels like an exploit
And that armor ability tho
sry for being a party-pooper, but it's same as recruiting Minthara without killing the Grove- an unintended Bug. I can tell cuz I've got both dialogs about Karlach's death and Wyll's punishment despite NONE of it happening due to this Loophole. In best we'll get a compromise with both characters being untacked, but no Robe and little minus to reputation with Karlach(for sending her to Hell). Tho should we really PUSH Larians into doint so? Like demanding such a little thing for ALL CONTENT WE GOT? Selfish.
BUT since we can intentionally SAVE the Duke despite the contract, then we can do same with Karlach cuz contract says "Kill" not "Bring her to Mephistopheles".
And I really want them both go to hell and beat the SHIT out of all devils.
@@fandango_boi DLC for people going to Avernus with [TheRobedBerserk]
@@fandango_boi Recruiting Minthara without killing everyone in the grove by just ignoring the grove and moving on to the Shadow lands is very much developer intended... there's literally unique dialogue from the Emperor and Minthara if this is the way you do it, in addition to all the additional dialogue and banter where Minthara/Wyll/Karlach mention/interact with each other that they put in the game
@@socialjihad5724 I think they were referencing the bug/loophole where you could have Halsin and Minthara as followers simultaneously. That was possible until Larian patched it and Halsin ended up dead in camp for people that went that route. Having both of them was not intentional.
Skipping the Grove quest altogether and recruiting Minthara in Moonrise is what you're talking about, right? That one is undoubtedly a planned choice.
@@socialjihad5724 Oh there's the OTHER way? sry didn't knew, I thought about the buggy one. But let me tell you, that hearing how Wyll Regrets killing Karlach in context that he KILL HER FOR GOOD and then hear about his "Transformation" that never happend, it's REALLY depressing.
I’ll never get this robe, and I’m ok with that
I never would have, but now I will every playthrough lol. Wyle is never a party member, but Karlach is a perma-member.
Small correction, in DnD True Resurrection does not work "no matter what".
It fails if the soul is unwillingly, destroy, trapped (ie. Turned into a soul coin), dead for more then 200 years or died of old age.
You can’t get it anymore after the patch. It’s one or the other . The robe or Karach.
I saw someone upthread say you can still do it if you recruit Karlach, kill her in camp, then rest to get Mizora and have Withers revive her after you get the robe. IDK though.
Personally, I feel like our character should have a persuasion test here when MIzora shows up. Persuade her by saying that Karlach actually does not fit the 'heartless' clause as she does, in fact, have a heart. A mechanical one made of infernal machinery, but all through out the game, everyone calls it her 'heart'. To make it "fair" maybe she make the charisma a little harder in than it should be, but still, it is a worthwhile argument, don't you think?
They call it heart because it do that job, but actually is an engine, a machine, so tecnically they are right when they say she is heartless, and the devils of course know that, Mizora is literally a lawyer here, is like the artifitial heart, it does the heart job and keep the blood runing, but at the end it's still a machine, not a real heart
@@craimaxblackit says in the contract "heartless" in a metaphorical way to interpret one without morals. So therefore a moral being like karlach does indeed have a heart. Using the metaphorical interpretation of what heartless is and not its literal form.
@@alexcavazos3341 no, Mizora just say heartless, it never specify if such statemen is methaporical or literal, so it can be use as both, and Karlach is tecnically heartless, so it count, as i said, is a lawyer contract, every single detail matter, just as this
@@alexcavazos3341there is no context in the contract. This means mizora can have it mean either of the options or both at any time she pleases since she is the one with the power
Her saying Karlach has no heart is a technicality in the contract, you can roll all the Nat 20’s for persuasion you like, it won’t change what’s on Wyll’s contract.
This has been patched out so you may wanna put some kind of update so people don't think you're messing with them
Could have saved myself two hours, had i read this.. 😅
Fr its mad annoying hes not disclosing it in the tittle 👎👎👎
Wish this was a hidden story feature and not a bug
This method is like karma for Mizora using a loophole in the contract to make Wyll kill Karlach. Counter the loophole with a loophole.
I can confirm that as of 11/3 at approximately 6pm this was not patched! I did it, and now I’ve got wyll (with no horns) Karlach, and my badass armor. Thank you for sharing your knowledge! It’s much appreciated 😊
Thanks for the fantastic content.
I just tested this myself. Wyll doesn't need to be in your party. As long as the sequence is the same as mentioned in the video, you'll end up with the rare Infernal Robe.
As of 2023/12/29 it seems this has been fixed by Larian
This better not get patched, I want to do this!
I honestly wouldn't care about Karlach dying, but screwing Mizora over this way is just chef's kiss!
hope larian patches around it, let karlach address that you destroyed her but then let you justify that you did to deceive a devil that was hunting her. Then it would be perfection
"you can't revive karlach, her player left the campaign 2 sessions ago."
Thank you! Literally found your guide randomly, as I'm about to reach Karlach in my second playthrough (Tactician). Karlach in that robe will be very useful I'm sure 😊
Sadly, this no longer works. God, I wish.
Got fixed in patch 5 or 6 so no more loophole which is sad cause this was very dnd style but nope
True Resurrection doesn't work because Karlach's soul needs to be both free and willing. Willing? Yes. Free? Oh. No no no
Aaaaaaaaand now I have to start a new playthrough just to do this.
patched
In response to text regarding the True Scroll of Resurrection: I would note that the means of acquiring said scroll is through a mephit that is instructed to create one using Gale's name. I suspect that scroll only works on Gale (though I haven't tried it on other companions).
In regards to the method, you did this almost exactly the same way I did although I did it slightly differently for roleplay reasons: So long as you are not in view or in combat with Karlach (I had my party with main character at the Risen Road waypoint) I had Whyll "find" Karlach while exploring and just immediately attacking her (skipping the dialogue like you did). Once I killed her, I had Whyll return to the party and talk with the main character where he brags about killing Karlach and my main character kinda stays quiet and "sends Whyll back to camp" (not literally in a party sense since you want him in party for dialogue scene to get the Robe). Once he's gone with his mission complete, the main character decides to go to the scene of the crime and raise Karlach with the revivify scroll.
After talking with Karlach it seems more natural about the "****er that took me out" and when she offers/asks for help taking out the Paladin I respond with "You want me to do you dirty work?" Kind of idea and just leave her be. Go back to camp, have the Whyll/Mizora scene and then the following day have a change of heart and decide to help Karlach after all. =P
Work up to the point you encounter a point of no return (creche or shadowcurse land). Then on your next reload the game will catch up and change Wyll to a tiefling.
FYI they patched this and you can't have Karlash and Will and get the robe.
To be fair, I'd keep this in the game for the pure ingenuity of it. Not many people would be willing to take this many steps for a single magic item that isn't in the absurd tier.
Im guessing this results in karlach making a bunch of refferences to wyll's non-existant devil form, since she's not supposed to be alive in the route where he remains human
Not anymore...
It did, and Wyll talked about a murder he never did.
they actually added a loophole to save Minthara, and purposefully made it easier to get minthara on the good route, so yeah..... *I think they knew we would find a way to make this happen*
and yet, they gone and patch it, so now we are stuck whit having wyll whit horns >.> he looks so ugly whit the horns ffs
They patched it out, I tried this method and after spending a long time on it (I wanted the robe for my warlock which is pact of the blade and wants to go melee and can't wear armor beyond light, and doesn't even wear light because mage armor is better than light, at least now) I went through patch notes of every patch, they patched it out in patch 5.
I love the title of this video because the achievement for breaking Wyll’s pact is called “Loophole”.
0:32 Durge: You sure about that?
1:20 Actually True Resurrection has limitations, it can't revive someone that's been dead for 200 years for example, or if they died from old age, finally the soul must be intact, able, and willing to be resurrected.
Revivify is supposed to only work up to one minute after death and the body can't be mutilated, but for game reasons they removed the time limit and restricted it to party members only. I did this trick once, they patched it out in Patch 5 or so.
I actually give this robe to my Dragonborn Draconic Sorcerer as compensation for him lacking any shield proficiency. This robe plus Mol"s Ring of Protection and the ring you can get from the Strange Ox are an awesome defensive combo.
Mol's ring is very nice. But not NEARLY as nice as keeping the Idol for a full party buff, and more.
I didn’t even consider the fact that Wyll could ever not get horns, simply because Karlach has always been to precious to kill. I’m definitely doing this for my next playthrough
I tried it after patch 5, it doesn't work, Myzora just doesn't appear. And if you kill her after speaking to her, everytime you resurrect her she will be forever hostile to you.
doesn't work for me either
I love that this is the most DnD thing ever.
for newcomers, it's patched, just mod or cheat and get yourself the robes
The Dark Urge: What are you talking about? I killed her just fine! Then again... i am a monster...
Yeah they totally patched it. Wyll will indeed wind up with horns and all of the dialogue options as if he had been turned into a teething eventually... For me it took hold when I got to the GIthyanki creche.... Everything after that and all character interactions or as if Wyll had spared karlach and never received the robe. But hey you do get the robe out of it before Mizora checks her notes and realizes that in fact the target is still alive.
Truth be told devil packs in this game are the unfortunate victim of plot device armor..... Later on when you assist yurgir in getting out of his contract with Raphael, Raphael accuses yurgir of cheating by subcontracting out to kill his last Target instead of doing it himself... Even though there is no option in the game to simply go back and tell your gear for the last guy is so he could do the work himself. And there is no clause in the contract that does not allow him to use minions.... So yeah...
People are saying the patch made this impossible but it worked for me. Might be because I didn't leave anyone at camp but split from the group...
It should be impossible now? When did you do this?
@@elvenring right after disconnecting from the internet so the game wouldn't update...
@elvenring I hadn't played the game since before the patches. When everything updated, I was knee deep in Act 2. Karlach and Wyll were still there. No idea how that worked out but it did...
@@nocturnalcove9736 ah, that makes sense. Yeah, everyone got to keep what they already had, except for hornless Wyll.
Im coping that if its a popular choice enough then maybe itll be patched as part of the story.
The fun of infernal pacts is finding a loophole.
I wish this was still a thing
It's actually so against the spirit of DnD for them to get rid of this... Pretty disappointing considering how much freedom is in the game is generally
@@Thiquid In early access, for years you used to be able to cast Darkness on any vendor before pickpocketing them and it would set the difficulty level for every single item to 0. That was patched out of the game a month after release. There also used to be this cool chest in the Underdark that would make every item in the game weigh less by turning it into like a spoon, ink pot, etc., and again some Einstein over at Larian patched it out by changing he weight of the chest from 10 lbs to like 200 lbs; basically making the reduced carrying capacity effect pointless. I have no idea why this game gets so much appraise for player freedom when the devs make just as many bad changes as developers from other studios.
I take it that means it isn't?
29/11/23 - Can confirm this still works! Thank you so much! 💜
Edit: Since patch 5 it unfortunately doesn't work and Gale will retroactively be punished if Karlack is still alive!
Here's hoping we find a new way!
Not anymore it doesn't. Patch 5 notes say so.
But hey, lets reward Minthara fans for doing the same thing, why not?
@@Rammstein0963. Fr! It's a bit crazy to patch one out but add the other in
Best reason I've heard yet to put a "Freeze" function in the game to prevent applying any future updates. This approaches the issue of who actually owns the game, tho I'm sure the fine print we can't remember agreeing to when buying the game gives Larian the right to change the code on our desktops without our permission. I was in IT long enough to realize that not ALL updates improve a product. Of course, Larian would never consider giving us that. Or, apparently, the Infernal Armor. Hey Larian, how about make a choice: take the damn tease armor OUT of the game OR, give us a way to kill Mizora. I'll take that trade. It would be a lot more satisfying than stuffing worg poop in her inventory.
They still let you disarm the Legendary Greatsword from the Githyanki dragon rider, so I believe they won’t patch it, at most they’ll likely just add some dialogue acknowledging it.
Edit: Nevermind, they patched this, but the waaay stronger +3 Greatsword is still obtainable in Act 1.
This almost feels like how you would pull off a stunt like this in an actual campaign. Almost feels intended
Honestly a scroll of true ressurection could be used to save Karlach. If ypu cut out her infernal engine first. It regrows organs, or whole bodies need be
Was kind of expecting this video to end with “it’s just a theory. A GAME THEORY”
Larion patched it, which I really disagree with. This was a great story-friendly option imo
It wasn't lore friendly at all. To resurrect her, you'd need to get her soul back from Mizora/Zariel.
neat loophole, when I played I killed her and revived her and her head was still in her inventory to turn in.
Now how to get karlach and minthara in the same party.
mods 😂
Officially? Ignore the grove conflict in Act 1 and just move to Act 2. You can recruit Minthara in Act 2 now. Of course Halsin and all Tieflings die because of this, but Karlach will not leave you.
Optimally? "Minthara - Daugher of Lolth" mod. Save the grove, beat Minthara without killing her thanks to the mod and recruit her in act 2 as usual.
Thanks but I guess that means the smith will die. Well sacrafices must be made and all.
@@ninver6887 There are some exploits to keep Dammon (the smith) alive, but it's definitely not intended. This means you cannot actually complete Karlach's companion quest. Romancing her is also harder because the whole "cooling her engine so you can touch her" aspect isn't taken care of.
In general not finishing the main conflict of Act 1 makes a lot of the game objectively worse.
My current solution was a karlach origin run with a heat build. It's nice becuase of minthara's soul brand ability.
I love the fact that...the armor piece Karlach is never meant to wear, is her best armor piece...in act 1 at least, I'm not super far in the game and am exploring as much as I can so I assume there's better stuff later but yeah that's awesome!
Note I dont think this works anymore! No matter how much I try reviving out of sight, having Wyll back at camp its been patched!
It was patched shortly after being discovered
Kinda wish this was an actual thing, just so that at some point in the future Mizora is like
"Hello, pu- WHAT IN THE HELLS??? HOW???"
Scroll of true resurrection restores all hit points as well as bringing someone back to life, regular revevify scrolls do not. Anyway thanks for the tip!
Oh, so it's good for mid-combat. Anyway thanks for the tip!
It's very annoying that Larian patched this because this should be a feature it's also not like it's easy to pull off
This game is just too damn good.
I hadn't thought about have karlach wear that robe, combine it with unstable blood effect and she's a walking land mine waiting to get smacked
Uh, they did patch this btw
What's sad is, there was a super simple workaround the devs could have taken and still given players the simple choice of helping Wyll fulfil his contract without keeping Karlach dead.
We know Wyll is a warlock, so, when he said he will catch hell for it, just have players do a persuasion check on him, get him to spill, and then talk to Karlach. Let yourself be able to persuade her to die, in front of Wyll, and then just revive her. When the patron comes, just tell her straight up that, as per the contract, he needs to obey and kill her. You killed her, but nothing in the contract says she must stay dead. He fulfil his contract, Mizora gets pissed off, and will make sure you can't loophole her the next time she demands something, and then you loophole her.
I mean, it's such an easy fix and I hope the devs add it in in future patches.