here a simple way to break Wyll contract and save his father: 1: be at least level 11 2: have Shadowheart or Halsin cast heal on him BEFORE he leaves the cell. 3: have gale or someone else with dimension door to teleport him out of the spider range and get him closer to the submarine to leave. 4: Flaunt your success in front of Mizora's face.
Different option let gale cast globe of invunerabilty jump ravenguard into the globe to trigger the cutscene, wait one turn for spider explosion and run him to sub.
I believe despite how badly written this is, That his father will eventually be killed due to the pact and the fact he had already had a pact he is essentially dammed anyway considering if he broke the pact he is committing murder(not by his own hand) through his actions.
I'm pretty sure they fixed it in the latest patch or I had a tooltip bug but nobody reacted to breaking the pact and I had the same team (Shadowheart+Karlach)
@@fistimusmaximus6576 by this point the pact is on a 6 month time limit before he's released. That's why Mizora is trying to rewrite it into an inescapable one.
I really don't see why the party gets so pissy about breaking the contract. His dad's got like 10-15years left to live max against the rest of Wylls life and his soul. Wylls already sacrificed more than almost anyone else, why shouldn't he take the chance at freedom?
Haven’t gotten near that point yet, it breaks mind that they would?? I could maybe see a couple of them disapproving, but everyone? That’s pretty fucked up
@@AlJohnstone88 that’s so brutal. Sidebar, the fact that you stipulated that astarion agreeing with the decision codes it as the You Fucked Up one is kinda morbidly hilarious to me. Still, poor Wyll. Trying to break free of an internal (in all senses of the word) contract gets him hate among his companions.
No finite thing can ever compensate for infinity. Even Wylls original pact to save a city doesn’t make any sense in the context of an eternity of downside for him. Infinity makes everything fucked. Same with Shadowheart and Shar. Saving her parents in exchange for eternity tethered to Shar is not worth it
@@bearfaery737 He was definitely pressured and tricked and in a vulnerable position. That said, he’s high born and educated and lives in Faerun, where deals for souls happen reasonably often. His tutors had an obligation to teach him, basically, “any circumstance that involves infinity is never worth it, never morally permissible. Anyone who tries to tell you that infinite sacrifice is necessary is lying to you. It would literally be better for the universe to snuff out along with every creature than for even one soul to suffer for eternity”
I didn't like how there was no option to let him choose like with others major moments. I like letting them choose. If you know where to go for iron throne saving father is super easy
Take this with the grain of salt a devil warrants, but Mizora suggests Ulder's fate is still sealed. He will die at the hands of his enemies. And for a man of his stature, the list of enemies is not a short one.
Not gonna lie, he was going to die that way either way. Man is a Paladin. If he didn't die in a blaze of glory fighting the evils of the world, Tyr would probably be disappointed.
Yeah, and if I were his dad, I would also want him to not choose to save me. His father is middle aged and he has plenty of enemies and stress. Decent chance he doesn't live that long anyway. He's a mere human too, not an elf or anything. Buying him another decade or two by sacrificing your immortal soul? Uh....
@@JB-xl2jc Hell, if you continue Shadowheart's quest and turned her away from Shar, she's faced with the same "Family vs Freedom" choice, but her parents outright tell her to pick the latter. Why is it treated as the right decision with her but not with Wyll?
@@treehugger0241because shadowheart has to deal with what is essentially chronic pain if her parents live, that’s NOT selling your soul to hell for all eternity. Shadowheart could still go to Selune’s afterlife once she dies.
Maybe, but he is a Blade of Frontiers no more then. Imo being on the frontlines suits him better. Grand Duke has to be smart about what he does. In politics there is no place for grand self sacrificial acts he tends to gravitate to. Besides, if be becomes a blade of Avernus he may convince Karlach to travel to the Hells with him in search of a cure for her engine, instead of Karlach randomly combusting on a pierce in the end.
@@fallhayv8470 Since the latest patch you can choose to persuade Karlach to go to Avernus with Wyll, or your player character if you romanced her can choose to accompany her, or you all three of you can go to Avernus together and fight devils.
I never saw much point in letting her have Wyll’s soul in exchange for a location on a map. Seems a bit extreme. All you’d have to do is ask around and figure it out.
Remember as well for all her bluster at the end of the day Mizora is only a half devil which is infinitely easier to kill. My main point to that the cult of the absolute caught, bound, and we're preparing to tadpole her, I doubt that would even be possible with Raphael or Yugir to much stronger devils by what we have seen and we killed. And if Duke Ravenguard is supposedly a better fighter than even Wyll I doubt Mizora honestly has even the capability to kill this man before he's rendered feeble due to age.
Odds are, Mizora will keep trying to kill the Duke until she either succeeds or he dies a natural death. But if he's saved from the Iron Throne prison, she doesn't try again in this game.
At the very least, even if she succeeds off-screen, it's already after Wyll and Ulder reconciled and the city is saved. The loss would hurt Wyll, but the closure reduces the long-lasting suffering.
Eh, by the end of the game there are several godlike entities trying to take my friends and I out. Mizora, a mere cambion, trying to take out one of my buddy's dads? Sounds eminently manageable.
@@JSmith99 What grinds my gears is that with Karlach we literally canonically have a Scroll of True Resurrection in the hands of the party (Gale has it from game start, though it's a contingency to avoid nuking the Sword Coast, but by the end of the game that's no longer a concern). True Resurrection isn't like Revivify. It COMPLETELY reconstitutes the body of the individual you're targeting. Like, they could be ASH or utterly decayed and dead for 199 years, and poof they're back in perfect health (with the SOLE exception that they didn't die of old age). It regenerates complete organs and limbs if they're damaged or missing, cures any poison disease or malady, etc. So not only would Karlach come back with her real heart in place, she'd no longer have all the burns and scarring, the heat vents... hell, even her broken horn would regrow! Gale no longer needs this scroll considering the orb has been handled one way or another by this point in the game. So Karlach's ending feels pretty.... forced. Granted True Resurrection is a level 9 spell, but, considering we were literally directly meeting with gods and having them intervene in the situation, it should be child's play to fix Karlach's heart, if not replace it.
if you have high enough insight you get some extra lines out of mizora i think. in my playthrough she mentioned some parts of the contract where duke will be slain when the contract ends.
Yeah, I used detect thoughts and got that same dialogue. I still feel like this ending is pragmatic; lesser evil, regardless of how the game tries to bash you for it. No one's soul goes to hell for eternity. Old guy who's gonna die soon anyway gets a reconciliation with his son, the opportunity to save his city, and his soul goes to his god. I was really frustrated with the game for trying to tell me this was a "bad" choice. It's clearly the choice that results in the least suffering. (Given the information you have at the time.)
@@Nihilist_Porcupine The old man is also constantly surrounded by guards and is also a really strong fighter. He'll be fine handling a devil who wants to kill him
Yeah, plus Wyll’s service to Mizora will inevitably lead to further harm if indirectly. The only positive in renewing the contract was that he ended up talking Karlach into joining him in Avernus as a demon slaying power couple in my ending.
@@cyborgcatrj6794 so funny enough, broke the contract, saved the duke and Wyll can still become the Blade of Avernus and bring Karlach along to Avernus, just gotta do the quest for finding Ansur and talk to the Duke again afterwards.
@@ahvin4764 She's only a Cambion, too. I mean, BG3 seems to have cambions as waaaaay stronger than they actually are in typical 5e lore, but yeah, Ravenguard in 5e would absolutely wipe the floor with some random cambion in service to Zariel. He wouldn't even need his guards.
OK, did nobody else ever notice that WYLL is NOT proficient with rapiers? I noticed that, when trying to warlock-enchant his blade. 🤣 Blade of Frontiers & Avernus with an effing dagger!
I personally saved the duke by having karlach run over to him and cast invisibility on him as soon as he was free. The spiders didn't detect him and I had him make a mad dash all the way to the sub
I think they patched it so there's no long rest limit to save Duke Ravengard in the Iron Throne. I took my sweet time doing all of the other side quests and took minimum 5 long rests and he's still alive when I got to his cell.
Did you visit the Iron Throne BEFORE the scene where Wyll has to choose? If you do, regardless of any other worldstate, Ravenguard will be dead. I am not really sure why. I guess because then it would completely invalidate the most important scene in Wyll's act 3 storyline? Mizora showing up and being like "Sign here or your dad's definitely dead" just hits different when his dad is sipping wine in the Elfsong 20 feet away haha
I heard that this could be a breach of contract on Wyll’s part and for saving his father when a stipulation of ending the contract was for him to die; this option could unintentionally bound Wylls soul to the hells or Mizora will just the next convenient opportunity to kill him. It may be hard but there’s no way Wyll can get everything he wants ontop of freedom without paying a price, even if he doesn’t die in the game she can kill him anytime and successfully saving him only delays the inevitable at best and at worst there’s the possibility that Mizora can take Wyll’s soul for “the breach in contact” I hope it’s not the case but when it comes to dealing with Devils I don’t think Wyll ever had the chance of getting what he desires without paying a momentous price.
I knocked Wyll's father out, never killed him, but the game still progresses like he is dead. There are other examples where knocking them out progresses like they are alive.
Because most of the time in this game counting Knock out as dead. Less animation time, lesser dialog options. Even at act 1 when you knock out the masked armies, they counted as dead.
@@horizonblack8351I knocked out the healer of the grove and it was the same, it counted as they where dead sometimes knocking down works, sometimes it doesn’t, the lack of consistency is kinda annoying
@@Geni-yh1pv It was the old patch dude. Minthara bonked to save her only available after players wish. Other than that in the old way you have to use the shitty bugs to save her and still stay good.
I killed all the steel watchers, and had the Duke, and Gortesh knocked out on the ground just across the bridge from Mizzora, but she still acted like he was dead. There was no way that I could find where he would wake up either. After a long rest, his body just vanished.
When I did this after saving him despite ending the pact all the dialog acted like Wyll had renewed the pact to save his father. Seems yours has as well with that "1. Your son sacrificed his soul to save yours. He had no other choice." dialog in camp showing up, though I of course also chose 4. Then that "You gave yourself to the Hells' eternal fires so I might walk free" line. Bug I reckon.
@@cccbbbaaa110Sadly this is pretty typical for Larian, the early game is INCREDIBLY polished because it was out in EA, but the later game has a lot less polish until later on- DOS2 by the time of the Definitive Edition for instance was extremely polished throughout, but at release Act IV was very much not.
To be fair, it could ment about before I can confirm this was a bug. Wyll says: you failed Mizora, my father Is saved and my changes unbroken. Also, Wyll speks at the ending how his power are all gone
Yeah, I was playing a durge redeemed and ended up slaughtering the grove, but saving the Duke, but he still asks for us to bring Wyll to talk about how Ansur was killed.
Pro tip, the spiders will spawn in the submarine. I had the mindflayer teleport him into there, thinking "maybe they'll just spawn in the hallway or something" but nope. The casualties were just 3 gondians tho
For me Duke was dead in the prison because i didn't long rest after entering lower city (no cut scene/dumb quest mechanic) before steelwatcher side quest, Mizora killed him and i freed Wyll so byebye Duke, his armor is fine on Laezel in the end. 😄
I did this, I had to re-have each conversation regarding wyll twice, once with wyll and once with his dad Because they thought he died but also knew he lived
I did this and Mizora just acted like she’d helped us out instead. Did the full quest with him alive and all the dialogue is acting like he’s still in the pact.
You can break the contract and still save the duke. I went to the coronation, told Mizora to f* off and free Wyll, did some other quests, went for the gondians, found the u-boat. Gotta do it in a turn limit, get clear of a blast, then stop Mizoras summoning and escape. Longstrider, speed potions, dimension door, teleport circle etc are your friend.
No. If you go there BEFORE Mizora's cutscene he will be dead in his cell. You need to get the Mizora cutscene and ONLY THEN go to the prison to save him. I'm guessing the reason why is that if you go there and free him and then Mizora shows up, she.... basically doesn't have any reason to be there lol. It kinda messes up the story then, Wyll would've had no real Act 3 plot. So, they instead kill Ravenguard so you can go down his Act 3 plot with the angst of his pops dying instead.
In my playthrough i didn't make any pacts and found the throne by simply exploring even befor i took my next long rest. But when the escape started the duke was already dead and i can't seem to stop him from to die.
Do i have limited time to start saving his father? I mean, i wanna do other quests first, complete the map, etc i don't wanna rush straight to the prison and save him, or will i find him dead if i wait too much? 😅
I don’t get some of the story telling a implications. In my story, the duke was dead when I grabbed his body while in the iron throne. I also had a level 11 life cleric as my main character. In dnd a level 11 cleric would have raise dead. I should be able to just revive the dead dukes body with my cleric casting revivify or raise dead. Or even use a recovery scroll or ask withers to revive him. I would have liked to tell minors to go back to hell and save his father
I've been sat for over an hour staring at Mizora and the 4 choices which are really just 2 choices of sign the contract or dont for Wyll without even getting input from him or letting him make the choice. It's pretty obvious there's a massive clause in the contract about either Wyll or a party member being able to kill him which suggests she would trick either Wyll or one of us to kill him, the other thing is we know he has a tadpole in his head so his life is already forfeit because if you kill the elder brain anyone with a tadpole becomes a mindflayer instantly. We have so far found no way to remove them either. Right now Wylls father mightcas well be dead already. Plus, the four options do not fit for a Paladin. No paladin would condone signing the contract. Also, this is hardly tricking someone into signing a contract. This is just a straight-up, 'sign this, Wyll or i kill your father' This is just bonkers bad writing. Also we already negotiated Wylls release? So why is it now acting like he's breaking a contract by not signing a new one?
The issue is that Mizora had 6 months left on the contract after the release negotiation - he was still bound to her. I'm fairly sure that she actually tricked will into signing a contract of "kill my father for free" if he doesn't "renew" the contract, just to be petty.
Thank you for the video, I went back to the throne room to try and find some clue of where he's at. Really wish you could just have someone let you know where he's at like the consular approaching you or one of her henchmen. I'm currently playing as Wyll for my MC and if I had known how poorly his story was written I would've just gone with dark urge. Wylls story feels really half baked which is unfortunate this is just another example of that.
If you encountered Omeluum in Act I, he will be present in the Iron Throne in Act III, telling you that Ulder is there and that you need to save him. Wyll's story doesn't feel half-baked, to me.Not as half-baked as Karlach's, who returns to Hell without a conclusion to her infernal heart problem, or Astarion, whose vampiric powers would likely cause him problems in the future.
I hate how bugged this mission was for me. Her spawning in the prison kept bugging out my game, had to save at the start and reload to get all of it and still had to sacrifice my whole party minus Wyll (your bodies wash ashore to revive). But what’s her tits would never address that I beat her, just chills in my camp saying “ready and waiting”.
I did it out of order. I got the quest with ansur from wyll’s old friend, fought him, wyll declared himself grand duke, then I saved his father. I also never got a cutscene with mizora at the end, not sure if it was a bug.
Will bamboozling mizora prevent her from helping fight the absolute at the endgame? Id like to do have my cake and eat it too by breaking the contract and saving the duke but not if that means my final fights going to be that much harder lol
Why my quest log after break wyll pact just like “grand duke is no longer our concern” and the quest just complete? In my previous playthrough the quest log was “there’s still a way to save him”
You have to have the scene with Mizora in your camp with the witnesses or she goes to the prison ahead of you and kills the duke herself. She will hint to that after the fact. But you can choose not to renew the pact and then rescue the duke in the prison after.
I think most people don't grasp that his father will die, She is a agent of zariel(seen people say just because she is half devil) assuming zariel has full control of the contract and his father will die from it as it was witnessed by the sisters. Whats strange is the game already explains that mindflayers have no soul so killing him is essentially a good thing as his soul would be claimed by his patron god as a Petitioner.
Well, not entirely true. The Duke would have to be murdered by Zariels devils (and Devils have a limited ability to operate on the mortal plain) or indirectly by his enemies. The Duke himself can't just be killed by someone else's pact.
for my part i used Shadowheart +speed potion , first scrollspell is Dimentional Door , where i pick up the duc and shadowheart for away of his cell, Mizora appear and spawn spider but it's still my turn (speed potion) my second scrollspell is "Globe of invulnerability" (Create a barrier that makes creatures and objects inside it Immune to all damage.),(also i moved shadowhear tto close the doors where are the fishmonsters behind me) , when you move the duc when it is his turn (inside the globe) the spider trigger their opportunity attack and explose (even if they are inside the globe too) and i can tell the duc to rush the ladder.
I personally got the boots of dimension door first from the bhaal assassin dolor then send however is wearing them to save wyll’s dad and the other guy send 2 to save the gondians and 1 to free the 2 and omeluum if he still alive drink a speed potion on every character after both wyll’s dad and the other guy escape close that door trapping mizora’s spiders and the sahagin then free the prisoners near the sub then start fighting off the spawning sahagin with the dimension door character free omeluum from his binding use his special power to teleport him and your party member back for the 2 of the gondian side rush to free them asap with one of them and have the other kill/cc them you will get staggered for a turn but 3 turns of double movement and actions is worth it and you can get everyone out even on tactician i did it like that at level 10
for my part i used Shadowheart +speed potion , first scrollspell is Dimentional Door , where i pick up the duc and shadowheart for away of his cell, Mizora appear and spawn spider but it's still my turn (speed potion) my second scrollspell is "Globe of invulnerability" (Create a barrier that makes creatures and objects inside it Immune to all damage.),(also i moved shadowhear tto close the doors where are the fishmonsters behind me) , when you move the duc when it is his turn (inside the globe) the spider trigger their opportunity attack and explose (even if they are inside the globe too) and i can tell the duc to rush the ladder. the rest of my team (with speed potion too) helped others guys in others room , made saved all prisonniers (in tactician you have only 5 turn)
@@fistimusmaximus6576 Why not a good character? Maybe they both just hit it off? Maybe that special potion from Araj Oblodra changed your blond chemistry in a way that Mizora is attracted immensely to the character's new pheromones. Plus she truly admires the character for their strength, leadership and overall successes. Maybe the character finds Mizora a strong, sexy, beautiful woman. Maybe the get together both thinking they can change the other. Just think of the inner party complications and additional minor quests that Mizora could provide.
Or 3 of the best ones, depending on personal taste. Both Astarion and Mizora are very well written. Halsin is more sparsely written but extremely useful.
here a simple way to break Wyll contract and save his father:
1: be at least level 11
2: have Shadowheart or Halsin cast heal on him BEFORE he leaves the cell.
3: have gale or someone else with dimension door to teleport him out of the spider range and get him closer to the submarine to leave.
4: Flaunt your success in front of Mizora's face.
Different option let gale cast globe of invunerabilty jump ravenguard into the globe to trigger the cutscene, wait one turn for spider explosion and run him to sub.
@@jamesflynn6827 i used sanctuary With shadowheart❤
When is the best time to cast heal?
@@iancody3215 after you open his cell but before his turn. if his turn come before the healer just skip it
@@emanonbackwards thanks
Love how Karlach said she won’t let Zariel take Wyll and when you choose break the contract, she disapproves. Which is it Karlach?! 😭
It’s because you’re essentially sacrificing an innocent to breaks the contract, pretty sure that’s how she sees it
I believe despite how badly written this is, That his father will eventually be killed due to the pact and the fact he had already had a pact he is essentially dammed anyway considering if he broke the pact he is committing murder(not by his own hand) through his actions.
I'm pretty sure they fixed it in the latest patch or I had a tooltip bug but nobody reacted to breaking the pact and I had the same team (Shadowheart+Karlach)
@@Tallborn5 no they still disapprove, if you tell wyll to accept everyone is fine and the dialogue after is he did the right thing
@@fistimusmaximus6576 by this point the pact is on a 6 month time limit before he's released. That's why Mizora is trying to rewrite it into an inescapable one.
I really don't see why the party gets so pissy about breaking the contract. His dad's got like 10-15years left to live max against the rest of Wylls life and his soul.
Wylls already sacrificed more than almost anyone else, why shouldn't he take the chance at freedom?
Haven’t gotten near that point yet, it breaks mind that they would?? I could maybe see a couple of them disapproving, but everyone? That’s pretty fucked up
@@Miles_Phantasmagoria well most (the good ones anyway), Astarion thinks it's fine which tells you it's supposed to be morally wrong (I disagree).
@@AlJohnstone88 that’s so brutal. Sidebar, the fact that you stipulated that astarion agreeing with the decision codes it as the You Fucked Up one is kinda morbidly hilarious to me.
Still, poor Wyll. Trying to break free of an internal (in all senses of the word) contract gets him hate among his companions.
They can’t hate it much, everyone was still pretty positive to me so I just looked passed it
Everyone acts like Uldred is super important for the city safety and without him city will fall and many people will die.
Choose to break the contract withouth knowing if i could save the duke. No father would want their sons eternal damnation in exchange for their life.
No finite thing can ever compensate for infinity. Even Wylls original pact to save a city doesn’t make any sense in the context of an eternity of downside for him.
Infinity makes everything fucked. Same with Shadowheart and Shar. Saving her parents in exchange for eternity tethered to Shar is not worth it
@@TheSporelord01 Any proof that Shadowheart is bound to Shar for infinity?
@@TheSporelord01 yup, if you let Shadowheart make her own choice in the House of Grief she sacrifices them and that says a lot
@@TheSporelord01 IIRC, Wyll was ~17 when he made the contract.
@@bearfaery737 He was definitely pressured and tricked and in a vulnerable position. That said, he’s high born and educated and lives in Faerun, where deals for souls happen reasonably often. His tutors had an obligation to teach him, basically, “any circumstance that involves infinity is never worth it, never morally permissible. Anyone who tries to tell you that infinite sacrifice is necessary is lying to you. It would literally be better for the universe to snuff out along with every creature than for even one soul to suffer for eternity”
I didn't like how there was no option to let him choose like with others major moments. I like letting them choose. If you know where to go for iron throne saving father is super easy
True. This is between wyll, his father, and mizora. Why the hell tav have any say in this situation.
Maybe, Mizora is right about Will - little puppy who needs commands
Take this with the grain of salt a devil warrants, but Mizora suggests Ulder's fate is still sealed. He will die at the hands of his enemies. And for a man of his stature, the list of enemies is not a short one.
Not gonna lie, he was going to die that way either way. Man is a Paladin. If he didn't die in a blaze of glory fighting the evils of the world, Tyr would probably be disappointed.
@@aarongoosby5532 Duke Ravengard would be disappointed too, I think!
Wyll’s eternal soul or his fathers very fleeting life? Seems like a pretty easy choice to me.
Yeah, and if I were his dad, I would also want him to not choose to save me. His father is middle aged and he has plenty of enemies and stress. Decent chance he doesn't live that long anyway. He's a mere human too, not an elf or anything. Buying him another decade or two by sacrificing your immortal soul? Uh....
OR... you can just break the contract and STILL find and save him, no sacrifice required.
@@VGJokerbut Mizora implies, that she will still kill the Duke and that this is just a temporary victory
@@JB-xl2jc Hell, if you continue Shadowheart's quest and turned her away from Shar, she's faced with the same "Family vs Freedom" choice, but her parents outright tell her to pick the latter. Why is it treated as the right decision with her but not with Wyll?
@@treehugger0241because shadowheart has to deal with what is essentially chronic pain if her parents live, that’s NOT selling your soul to hell for all eternity. Shadowheart could still go to Selune’s afterlife once she dies.
Wyll always acts so surprised when Mizora acts like the devil she is... Like, what else did you expect Wyll?
I personally let Wyll be free of his contract and convinced him to become the next grand duke. Its honestly what Ravenguard would have wanted.
Maybe, but he is a Blade of Frontiers no more then. Imo being on the frontlines suits him better. Grand Duke has to be smart about what he does. In politics there is no place for grand self sacrificial acts he tends to gravitate to. Besides, if be becomes a blade of Avernus he may convince Karlach to travel to the Hells with him in search of a cure for her engine, instead of Karlach randomly combusting on a pierce in the end.
@@fallhayv8470 Since the latest patch you can choose to persuade Karlach to go to Avernus with Wyll, or your player character if you romanced her can choose to accompany her, or you all three of you can go to Avernus together and fight devils.
@@TF2CrunchyFrog it has always been possible. They just added a cutscene.
If you free Wyll, can you later kill Mizora?
(Sorry, I haven't played the game, just been watching videos on youtube xD)
No you can't it's why we want dlc in hell
I never saw much point in letting her have Wyll’s soul in exchange for a location on a map. Seems a bit extreme. All you’d have to do is ask around and figure it out.
She also helps you out a lot more freeing the Duke of Wyll gives his soul. She’ll let him dash a lot more so it’s easier to get him out
23:09 this actually puts a smile on my face
Remember as well for all her bluster at the end of the day Mizora is only a half devil which is infinitely easier to kill. My main point to that the cult of the absolute caught, bound, and we're preparing to tadpole her, I doubt that would even be possible with Raphael or Yugir to much stronger devils by what we have seen and we killed. And if Duke Ravenguard is supposedly a better fighter than even Wyll I doubt Mizora honestly has even the capability to kill this man before he's rendered feeble due to age.
all true but those sisters who witnessed the pact, Other devils could enforce it as she is signing them its in zariels name. She is just her agent.
Raphael is only a Cambion (half-devil) too.
@@TF2CrunchyFrog True but he is much more powerful then her since he can even control a greater devil like Yugir
I’m not too familiar with DND lore but aren’t orthons and devils different from each other?
Nah Orthorns are a type of Devil, Devil is the overall race but Orthornn would be the genus as it were.@@notsubnautic4682
Odds are, Mizora will keep trying to kill the Duke until she either succeeds or he dies a natural death. But if he's saved from the Iron Throne prison, she doesn't try again in this game.
At the very least, even if she succeeds off-screen, it's already after Wyll and Ulder reconciled and the city is saved. The loss would hurt Wyll, but the closure reduces the long-lasting suffering.
@@XCAL1BR0A bittersweet conclusion. Even if Ulder dies by Mizora's hand, at least he doesn't harbor any more ill feelings towards Wyll.
@@EvelynL.1112 It's a better ending than some characters get. *cough* Karlach *cough*
Eh, by the end of the game there are several godlike entities trying to take my friends and I out. Mizora, a mere cambion, trying to take out one of my buddy's dads? Sounds eminently manageable.
@@JSmith99 What grinds my gears is that with Karlach we literally canonically have a Scroll of True Resurrection in the hands of the party (Gale has it from game start, though it's a contingency to avoid nuking the Sword Coast, but by the end of the game that's no longer a concern). True Resurrection isn't like Revivify. It COMPLETELY reconstitutes the body of the individual you're targeting. Like, they could be ASH or utterly decayed and dead for 199 years, and poof they're back in perfect health (with the SOLE exception that they didn't die of old age). It regenerates complete organs and limbs if they're damaged or missing, cures any poison disease or malady, etc.
So not only would Karlach come back with her real heart in place, she'd no longer have all the burns and scarring, the heat vents... hell, even her broken horn would regrow! Gale no longer needs this scroll considering the orb has been handled one way or another by this point in the game. So Karlach's ending feels pretty.... forced. Granted True Resurrection is a level 9 spell, but, considering we were literally directly meeting with gods and having them intervene in the situation, it should be child's play to fix Karlach's heart, if not replace it.
if you have high enough insight you get some extra lines out of mizora i think. in my playthrough she mentioned some parts of the contract where duke will be slain when the contract ends.
Yeah, I used detect thoughts and got that same dialogue. I still feel like this ending is pragmatic; lesser evil, regardless of how the game tries to bash you for it. No one's soul goes to hell for eternity. Old guy who's gonna die soon anyway gets a reconciliation with his son, the opportunity to save his city, and his soul goes to his god. I was really frustrated with the game for trying to tell me this was a "bad" choice. It's clearly the choice that results in the least suffering. (Given the information you have at the time.)
@@Nihilist_Porcupine The old man is also constantly surrounded by guards and is also a really strong fighter. He'll be fine handling a devil who wants to kill him
Yeah, plus Wyll’s service to Mizora will inevitably lead to further harm if indirectly. The only positive in renewing the contract was that he ended up talking Karlach into joining him in Avernus as a demon slaying power couple in my ending.
@@cyborgcatrj6794 so funny enough, broke the contract, saved the duke and Wyll can still become the Blade of Avernus and bring Karlach along to Avernus, just gotta do the quest for finding Ansur and talk to the Duke again afterwards.
@@ahvin4764 She's only a Cambion, too. I mean, BG3 seems to have cambions as waaaaay stronger than they actually are in typical 5e lore, but yeah, Ravenguard in 5e would absolutely wipe the floor with some random cambion in service to Zariel. He wouldn't even need his guards.
OK, did nobody else ever notice that WYLL is NOT proficient with rapiers? I noticed that, when trying to warlock-enchant his blade. 🤣 Blade of Frontiers & Avernus with an effing dagger!
Must be how you classed him out. As a pure warlock in my first playthrough, he's proficient with rapiers, glaives, halberds, and pikes.
@@chardt02 also pact weapon supersedes weapon proficiency
I personally saved the duke by having karlach run over to him and cast invisibility on him as soon as he was free. The spiders didn't detect him and I had him make a mad dash all the way to the sub
I had to wait a round because when I did it before the cinematic it was erased after. Sanctuary also helps.
I think they patched it so there's no long rest limit to save Duke Ravengard in the Iron Throne.
I took my sweet time doing all of the other side quests and took minimum 5 long rests and he's still alive when I got to his cell.
It's interesting because I went to see him without any rest and he's lying dead in his cell
To be fair, Mizora manipulate the contract multiple times through the quest
I found Wylls dad same day as Mizora asking to meet at camp. I went under the sea but he was already dead.
If you already destroyed the steel watch thats what happens
@@onri_ nope didn’t get there until 1-2 long rest after iron throne (didn’t even explore that part of map).
Same happened to me, Wyll's quest are pretty buggy, or "were" dunno if they fixed it on one of the hotfixes
@@onri_ as of patch 1 this is fixed, because it was a bug.
Did you visit the Iron Throne BEFORE the scene where Wyll has to choose? If you do, regardless of any other worldstate, Ravenguard will be dead. I am not really sure why. I guess because then it would completely invalidate the most important scene in Wyll's act 3 storyline? Mizora showing up and being like "Sign here or your dad's definitely dead" just hits different when his dad is sipping wine in the Elfsong 20 feet away haha
I heard that this could be a breach of contract on Wyll’s part and for saving his father when a stipulation of ending the contract was for him to die; this option could unintentionally bound Wylls soul to the hells or Mizora will just the next convenient opportunity to kill him.
It may be hard but there’s no way Wyll can get everything he wants ontop of freedom without paying a price, even if he doesn’t die in the game she can kill him anytime and successfully saving him only delays the inevitable at best and at worst there’s the possibility that Mizora can take Wyll’s soul for “the breach in contact”
I hope it’s not the case but when it comes to dealing with Devils I don’t think Wyll ever had the chance of getting what he desires without paying a momentous price.
9:04 if you just want the map location
I knocked Wyll's father out, never killed him, but the game still progresses like he is dead. There are other examples where knocking them out progresses like they are alive.
Because most of the time in this game counting Knock out as dead. Less animation time, lesser dialog options. Even at act 1 when you knock out the masked armies, they counted as dead.
@@horizonblack8351I knocked out the healer of the grove and it was the same, it counted as they where dead
sometimes knocking down works, sometimes it doesn’t, the lack of consistency is kinda annoying
And because of this, you don't want to play to be creative sad
@@horizonblack8351but minthara appears
@@Geni-yh1pv It was the old patch dude. Minthara bonked to save her only available after players wish. Other than that in the old way you have to use the shitty bugs to save her and still stay good.
if only ud posted this 2 days ago, i was trying to find his location everywhere. eventually i figured it out.
I killed all the steel watchers, and had the Duke, and Gortesh knocked out on the ground just across the bridge from Mizzora, but she still acted like he was dead. There was no way that I could find where he would wake up either. After a long rest, his body just vanished.
I think they even pached it up, just knocked him out on the same quest today and he just bursts into flames when the combat is over
14:22 SHE ACTUALLY KILL HIM THERE
When I did this after saving him despite ending the pact all the dialog acted like Wyll had renewed the pact to save his father. Seems yours has as well with that "1. Your son sacrificed his soul to save yours. He had no other choice." dialog in camp showing up, though I of course also chose 4. Then that "You gave yourself to the Hells' eternal fires so I might walk free" line. Bug I reckon.
The game is completely not polished in act3.
@@cccbbbaaa110Sadly this is pretty typical for Larian, the early game is INCREDIBLY polished because it was out in EA, but the later game has a lot less polish until later on- DOS2 by the time of the Definitive Edition for instance was extremely polished throughout, but at release Act IV was very much not.
To be fair, it could ment about before
I can confirm this was a bug. Wyll says: you failed Mizora, my father Is saved and my changes unbroken.
Also, Wyll speks at the ending how his power are all gone
@@bauloprete3905 Yeah, I'm 100 sure it was about before
Yeah, I was playing a durge redeemed and ended up slaughtering the grove, but saving the Duke, but he still asks for us to bring Wyll to talk about how Ansur was killed.
I kinda want to do this with a hornless Wyll to see how it changes the reaction with dad since the horns do come up.
Pro tip, the spiders will spawn in the submarine. I had the mindflayer teleport him into there, thinking "maybe they'll just spawn in the hallway or something" but nope. The casualties were just 3 gondians tho
For me Duke was dead in the prison because i didn't long rest after entering lower city (no cut scene/dumb quest mechanic) before steelwatcher side quest, Mizora killed him and i freed Wyll so byebye Duke, his armor is fine on Laezel in the end. 😄
Look Mizora if you really wanted him dead you'd have sent more than some spiders to finish the job
Casting restoration lets you control this dude and frees him of the devil's charm
I did this, I had to re-have each conversation regarding wyll twice, once with wyll and once with his dad
Because they thought he died but also knew he lived
Wonder if you can go down to the throne in disguise and if Gortash still gets on comms
_Holograms in my high fantasy game???_ I love it when fantasy and sci-fi intersect!
2:33 That awkward smile makes me laugh every time.
Gortash took a real Sofia Lamb turn lol
God the voice acting on the duke is so good
I did this and Mizora just acted like she’d helped us out instead. Did the full quest with him alive and all the dialogue is acting like he’s still in the pact.
is it possible to save wyll's dad without talking with mizora? i mean going to the iron throne without her information but after gortash coronation?
I believe so.
I tried that but the Duke is dead when i got to the prison
You can break the contract and still save the duke. I went to the coronation, told Mizora to f* off and free Wyll, did some other quests, went for the gondians, found the u-boat.
Gotta do it in a turn limit, get clear of a blast, then stop Mizoras summoning and escape. Longstrider, speed potions, dimension door, teleport circle etc are your friend.
No. If you go there BEFORE Mizora's cutscene he will be dead in his cell. You need to get the Mizora cutscene and ONLY THEN go to the prison to save him.
I'm guessing the reason why is that if you go there and free him and then Mizora shows up, she.... basically doesn't have any reason to be there lol. It kinda messes up the story then, Wyll would've had no real Act 3 plot. So, they instead kill Ravenguard so you can go down his Act 3 plot with the angst of his pops dying instead.
Ok the hate thing she has going with Wyll is freaking _hilarious_ 😂. You'd think he accidentally pissed in her coffee🤣.
In my playthrough i didn't make any pacts and found the throne by simply exploring even befor i took my next long rest. But when the escape started the duke was already dead and i can't seem to stop him from to die.
I love how there's no consequences to doing this, either
Did anyone else said "oops" like I do when baron mentioned Ansur?
can you planar bind mizora?
Nope. Teleports away and reappears seconds later. (I tried)
thank you, the dialogue for mizora after doing this didn't trigger for me and she was acting like normal. i was looking forward to laughing at her too
WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT? I'm trying to figure out how to save him, and it just cuts from being surrounded by spiders to just suddenly being safe????
Do i have limited time to start saving his father? I mean, i wanna do other quests first, complete the map, etc i don't wanna rush straight to the prison and save him, or will i find him dead if i wait too much? 😅
Goddamn I need to romance Wyll while I can. Karlach trying to take my man
I don’t get some of the story telling a implications. In my story, the duke was dead when I grabbed his body while in the iron throne. I also had a level 11 life cleric as my main character. In dnd a level 11 cleric would have raise dead. I should be able to just revive the dead dukes body with my cleric casting revivify or raise dead. Or even use a recovery scroll or ask withers to revive him. I would have liked to tell minors to go back to hell and save his father
Mizora sisters are fine af
My game bugged and Mizora had no reaction to me saving the Duke. Which was weird since she actively tried to stop me.
Same thing happened to me. I knew something went wrong that's why i searched for this video
I've been sat for over an hour staring at Mizora and the 4 choices which are really just 2 choices of sign the contract or dont for Wyll without even getting input from him or letting him make the choice.
It's pretty obvious there's a massive clause in the contract about either Wyll or a party member being able to kill him which suggests she would trick either Wyll or one of us to kill him, the other thing is we know he has a tadpole in his head so his life is already forfeit because if you kill the elder brain anyone with a tadpole becomes a mindflayer instantly. We have so far found no way to remove them either.
Right now Wylls father mightcas well be dead already.
Plus, the four options do not fit for a Paladin. No paladin would condone signing the contract.
Also, this is hardly tricking someone into signing a contract. This is just a straight-up, 'sign this, Wyll or i kill your father'
This is just bonkers bad writing. Also we already negotiated Wylls release? So why is it now acting like he's breaking a contract by not signing a new one?
The issue is that Mizora had 6 months left on the contract after the release negotiation - he was still bound to her. I'm fairly sure that she actually tricked will into signing a contract of "kill my father for free" if he doesn't "renew" the contract, just to be petty.
Thank you for the video, I went back to the throne room to try and find some clue of where he's at. Really wish you could just have someone let you know where he's at like the consular approaching you or one of her henchmen. I'm currently playing as Wyll for my MC and if I had known how poorly his story was written I would've just gone with dark urge. Wylls story feels really half baked which is unfortunate this is just another example of that.
If you encountered Omeluum in Act I, he will be present in the Iron Throne in Act III, telling you that Ulder is there and that you need to save him.
Wyll's story doesn't feel half-baked, to me.Not as half-baked as Karlach's, who returns to Hell without a conclusion to her infernal heart problem, or Astarion, whose vampiric powers would likely cause him problems in the future.
What happens if Ansur is already dead, and Wyll already decided what he wants to be before saving his father?
ah beans, I forgor about the dargoon and beat the game without waking him up.
just use sactuary on the duke
I hate how bugged this mission was for me. Her spawning in the prison kept bugging out my game, had to save at the start and reload to get all of it and still had to sacrifice my whole party minus Wyll (your bodies wash ashore to revive). But what’s her tits would never address that I beat her, just chills in my camp saying “ready and waiting”.
01:08 She dreamt on my scheme till I risible (shoot me please)
I did it out of order. I got the quest with ansur from wyll’s old friend, fought him, wyll declared himself grand duke, then I saved his father. I also never got a cutscene with mizora at the end, not sure if it was a bug.
Can you still break the contract and save the duke? Or has it been patched?
When I arrived at the prison, the Duke was already dead. Maybe I did something wrong, don't know.
Too many long rests or you triggered the alarm at the factory
Fyi the duke will still die. It's just when mizora wants it to happen.
Will bamboozling mizora prevent her from helping fight the absolute at the endgame? Id like to do have my cake and eat it too by breaking the contract and saving the duke but not if that means my final fights going to be that much harder lol
One really must ask Mizora how does it feel to be a part of the losers’ club?
Too bad, there is no third option making Wyll your pet or something among those lines.
I broke Wyll's pact and saved Ravenguard but i couldn't get the dialogue for Mizora post iron throne
Havent tried it this way, but my assumption is that this way karlach dies in the end. No blade os avernus no karlach living .
There is a way for Karlach to live without Wyll, considering you romance her
I didn't romance Karlach, had Wyll break his contract, and saved the dad, and Wyll went with Karlach into Avernus.
Karlach and Wyll really are meant to be together
is it okay to sleep to use long rest alot after breaking wyll's pact?
Has anyone tried rescuing him before talking to mizora in your camp? I’m curious if she still intervenes without ever offering a deal.
Hes dead if you do it that way
I can’t seem to get the top dialogue option to appear, at about 6:55.
for me Mizora never show up in my camp, anyone has any idea whats going on?
Maybe a bug? Did you free her when she was in the absolute?
yeah i freed her back there, and talked to her when we just crossed the bridge in a fort, i've never seen her since then @@hanasakura702
@@hanasakura702 ppl just rush main quests and then they wonder why no npc interacts with them 😬 when they skip/kill half of them
Why my quest log after break wyll pact just like “grand duke is no longer our concern” and the quest just complete? In my previous playthrough the quest log was “there’s still a way to save him”
this was so not worth losing karlach forever FUCK
What sword is on Will's back, i don't think i found that one.
Is there a step missing? Because he was dead when I went to rescue him, and I went straight to him after meeting Mizora outside the keep.
You have to have the scene with Mizora in your camp with the witnesses or she goes to the prison ahead of you and kills the duke herself. She will hint to that after the fact. But you can choose not to renew the pact and then rescue the duke in the prison after.
What’s the armour called that you have on Wyll?
I think most people don't grasp that his father will die, She is a agent of zariel(seen people say just because she is half devil) assuming zariel has full control of the contract and his father will die from it as it was witnessed by the sisters. Whats strange is the game already explains that mindflayers have no soul so killing him is essentially a good thing as his soul would be claimed by his patron god as a Petitioner.
Except the ceremorphosis isn't complete yet--he's still not a mindflayer. So, killing him before he's changed will net them his soul.
killing him before is actually a mercy.@@caitiff52
Except, because of the new contract, killing him before would send his soul to Hell. Not much of a mercy.@@fistimusmaximus6576
Well, not entirely true. The Duke would have to be murdered by Zariels devils (and Devils have a limited ability to operate on the mortal plain) or indirectly by his enemies. The Duke himself can't just be killed by someone else's pact.
they surely have mortal agents.@@AlJohnstone88
Wheres the I'll just wait the 6 months option like damn.
Why don´t you show us how to save everyone just the cutscenes?
I mainly make scenes and outcomes videos, very rarely guides. Also I am not very good at this game xD
for my part i used Shadowheart +speed potion , first scrollspell is Dimentional Door , where i pick up the duc and shadowheart for away of his cell, Mizora appear and spawn spider but it's still my turn (speed potion) my second scrollspell is "Globe of invulnerability" (Create a barrier that makes creatures and objects inside it Immune to all damage.),(also i moved shadowhear tto close the doors where are the fishmonsters behind me) , when you move the duc when it is his turn (inside the globe) the spider trigger their opportunity attack and explose (even if they are inside the globe too) and i can tell the duc to rush the ladder.
I personally got the boots of dimension door first from the bhaal assassin dolor then send however is wearing them to save wyll’s dad and the other guy send 2 to save the gondians and 1 to free the 2 and omeluum if he still alive drink a speed potion on every character after both wyll’s dad and the other guy escape close that door trapping mizora’s spiders and the sahagin then free the prisoners near the sub then start fighting off the spawning sahagin with the dimension door character free omeluum from his binding use his special power to teleport him and your party member back for the 2 of the gondian side rush to free them asap with one of them and have the other kill/cc them you will get staggered for a turn but 3 turns of double movement and actions is worth it and you can get everyone out even on tactician i did it like that at level 10
I never found mizora in baldur's under after the Iron Throne, where I found the already dead duke. Am I fucked?
U gotta find her before the coronation
Oops. Oh well, rip duke. Thanks. @@DoffyDogg
If you long rest after you break the pack the the duke die?
Why is the duke just dead in his cell?
The choice is stupid cause she cant guarantee either outcome.
why's your character with the black in his face?
Half-illithid template. Goes away after the elder brain is defeated and all the tadpoles die.
holy shit ravengards music cue is so good
Zesty testis!!!!!
How did he survive the spiders explosion?
Dimension door xD
for my part i used Shadowheart +speed potion , first scrollspell is Dimentional Door , where i pick up the duc and shadowheart for away of his cell, Mizora appear and spawn spider but it's still my turn (speed potion) my second scrollspell is "Globe of invulnerability" (Create a barrier that makes creatures and objects inside it Immune to all damage.),(also i moved shadowhear tto close the doors where are the fishmonsters behind me) , when you move the duc when it is his turn (inside the globe) the spider trigger their opportunity attack and explose (even if they are inside the globe too) and i can tell the duc to rush the ladder.
the rest of my team (with speed potion too) helped others guys in others room , made saved all prisonniers (in tactician you have only 5 turn)
You can also heal the Duke enough to survive them.
The Fear spell works against those spiders
Remove curse + heal him before the spiders come then dimension door him. That's how I do it.
Mizora is such a 'Babe'...wish there was more interaction with her. Could be fun....if not very dangerous for the group.
yeah, not enough "evil" characters perhaps dlc she joins you.
@@fistimusmaximus6576 Why not a good character? Maybe they both just hit it off? Maybe that special potion from Araj Oblodra changed your blond chemistry in a way that Mizora is attracted immensely to the character's new pheromones. Plus she truly admires the character for their strength, leadership and overall successes. Maybe the character finds Mizora a strong, sexy, beautiful woman. Maybe the get together both thinking they can change the other. Just think of the inner party complications and additional minor quests that Mizora could provide.
Mizora is like easily top 3 most insufferable characters in the game, up there with Astarion and Halsin.
Or 3 of the best ones, depending on personal taste. Both Astarion and Mizora are very well written. Halsin is more sparsely written but extremely useful.
What armor is that?
Bonespike Garb, I think you can get it from Rivington Smithy merchant at Chapter 3.
@@Northalix nice, I'll just spawn it
@@BLACKWITHAGUNdon’t make the game too easy. Spoils the joy.
@Norinia nah I'm good. I'm mainly in it for the story anyways. Almost done with all achievements and been using SOOO many mods. It's great.
@@BLACKWITHAGUN you can still get achievements with mods? Didn’t work that way for me.