6:19 The FT817 is specified to do 5W on all bands.. So the 818 adds 0,92dB, sounds worse and isn't compatible with e.g. programming software for the 817 any more. Thanks Yaesu - better luck next time..
I have an 818 and had a 2013 year 817. To me, the 818 receiver is much less noisy and less tiresome to listen to, and on vhf and uhf is extremely sensitive. I know which I prefer.
The FT-817 (818) is really a nice radio , despite what people might say about it. Of all the radio's I have, I have used the FT-817 the most (now the 818). Because it is so easy to use (and to set-up) and the receiver works very well. I was able to sell the 817 for a good price (it had the optional TCXO in it) and was able to buy an 818 with no added money (in a black Friday sale at HRO), that's why I upgraded to the FT-818. So before I boxed up the FT-817 for the new oner, I made this video. Cheers!
As I understand it, the primary reason for Yaesu's upgrade to the FT-818 was that the Finals used in the FT-817 went out of production, thus they had to find a replacement Finals transistor which required a redesign of the Power Amplifier Board to accommodate the new Power transistors. Thus the new model number, as even though the appearance is the same, the internals are not (due to the Finals transistor and new board). It is disappointing that they could not give us a decent upgrade on the internal battery as well as the included TXCO. Will I upgrade from my 817 to an 818...... HELL NO. If my 817 dies a tragic death, then I will revert to my two FT-7's (Yes, two of them, old but GOOD!!!!!!!)
Thanks for the comparison. I got the 817ND three years ago with £45 cash back on the price. It was just before the 818 came out. The only big thing to interest me is the high stability oscillator in the 818. If I had an 818 I'd be tempted to turn the power down to 5 Watts to save battery power. There would be no difference to a station receiving me on air between 5 Watts or 6 Watts. My H.f. stability is good and only one QSO on 2m ssb when portable and one on c.w. from home said about a bit of drift although the c.w. contact said it could be at his end. I mainly work h.f. The other good thing is the 60m band is now on the 818. The c.w. filter is too expensive and bumps up the total price so I used an old HC6U 455 kHz crystal soldered in for a cheap filter rather then pay out again, at least £120 for a filter. It works well enough to cut out some QRM. Bill, G4GHB.
What you might want to do is to buy one of those Chinese TCXOs for your FT-817: www.ebay.com/itm/181711941348 . $27, shipped, you can't beat that. I had that installed in my 817 and they work perfect. The 818 indeed has it built-in already from the factory. It is not like an 817 chassis with the TCXO already plugged in, they did a re-layout to facilitate the TCXO module as a permanently soldered unit on the board. By the way, the FT-817 also can transmit on 60 meter, but you have to move some diodes around on the control head PCB (requires SMT soldering skills though). When implemented, the 817 can transmit across the complete HF band, including 60 meter. Search the internet, I think mods.dk has a good article about it. Cheers.
@@LifeIsTooShortForQRP Thanks for the reply. Yes, I looked at those Chinese TCXO's but some people said they were noisy which put me off. Most of my operating is h.f. anyway so no problem. I've also looked at the mod. to get the radio on 60m but not bothered yet as that's the reason the h/b rig is in bits: I want to add 60m with it's extra bandpass filters which means I had to put it in a larger box. Perhaps if we get more h.f. bands as stations move off short wave I might modify the 817. 73, Bill, G4GHB.
Hello Dear! firts at all... thanks for the comparation! the first thing I see, it´s a big difference in the receivers, when you listen in 20mts, in the 818 don´t have noise, but in the 817 you´ll see a permanent s7.... maybe a configuration difference, ipo maybe? thanks again I had the fist edition of the 817... now I´m waiting a new c4fm all mode qrp radio to buy it!!! hehehe a hug from Barcelona!
I think 818n sounds like had a some band pass filter modification on receiver audio by Yaesu engineers. Perhaps, some capacitor in the circuit modify the bass response o perhaps different speaker. I have a 818 bought with Yaesu cash back program, similar prices like second hand 817nd. I think better new with tcxo, more mah battery and 1 watt more at same price, for this my decision. But it's true, no big differences if you can buy 817nd a good price. Thanks for video! 73s ea4is
Yes, you said 4W which surprised me…;) Do not worry its clarified now, hi. You should also mention in vid that 817ND is able to provide full 5W when battery powered while 818ND do not do it…:) 73 Petr
I have several Yaesu radios including the FT-818 which I just received recently. The 818 has a tiny piece of debris in between the LCD display and the clear plastic in front of the display. I figured I could get it removed myself and I didn't think it was worth shipping it back.
Yes, the front comes off pretty easy. You need to take that front off anyway if you want to change the jumper for general coverage TX. But I do think it is disappointing that Yaesu's QC process has deteriorated to the point where they would not have caught that dirt-speck in the display themselves.
@@LifeIsTooShortForQRP Ok thanks. Hopefully it won't be too hard to operate on it. I've changed my cell phone battery with microscopic screws before so this should be pretty easy.
Olá amigo , o meu também tinha esse resíduo e tentei abrir por fim quase estraguei o display do meu 818 , esse resíduo é a fita de ligação do display que fica pressionada contra o plástico
i would not buy a radio that does not have a service manual. plus the 817 in my opinion sounded better. but i'm still considering either the Yeasu 991a or the Icom 706mk11g.
Robert, go for the FT-991A in that case - the IC-706MKIIG has an FM and AM receiver bandwidth as wide as a barn door; more than 30 kHz with a terrible shape factor. It is almost like the IC-706MKIIG uses nothing more but a simple LC filter for that. By the way - this FT-817ND is much better in that respect. it has the right amount of bandwidth for each mode (6 kHz for AM, 12 kHz for FM) from a set of quality ceramic filters. Cheers.
Interesting comparison. 03:56 - the 818 seems to have S7 of noise yet the 818 does not - wonder why that is? Filtering difference or a DSP setting somewhere different between them?
You know I don't understand why you would get an 817/818 for a qrp radio when a ICOM 706 is almost the same size (almost, a little bigger). It runs 5w qrp to 100w. Or even a Yaesu 857. You can still find them out there. why settle for less when you can have more.
People don't settle for less, they have both and use them differently. 100W rigs are horribly inefficient at QRP. Things do start to improve at 25W+ but it's still really bad, here's why... My 818 draws 0.35A on RX & 2.4A at 6W TX, and the 891 draws 1.1A on RX & 9A at 25W TX - so it uses almost 3 times more power on RX, and nearly 4X more power on TX for only 6db gain - which is just +1 S unit! That +1 S unit adds 3.5kg in weight, and at 80W (+2 S units) things are even worse because it draws 14 Amps! It's just not worth it, so I only use the 891 when I'm not venturing too far away from my car.
Good point. I do not think there is a difference between the two during receive (because the schematic diagrams are identical) but I can test. I would assume the 818 draws a bit more than the 817 at highest TX power level because it puts out a bit more at that level.
Buenas noches, tengo un FT-817ND, me gustaría poder subirle a 6 watios, puede por favor regalarme los parámetros ocultos de su FT-818, puede hacer un video y enseñarlos lentamente para copiarlos, muchas gracias. HK3TKI
So the 818 has slightly better filtering by the looks of the noise floor ? But the 817 is the better option would like to see how the 817 works against the 818 if you put a Collins YF122s in the 817 Still interesting to see the differences aren’t that much you will have to pop the tops off so we can have a view of the insides
Sam, I think the differences between s-meter readings on noise floor between the two is purely because of the way Yaesu has set the linearity of the meter between the 817 and 818. That seems to be different between the two radios (the 817 seems to have a much more sensitive s-reading at low level signals). But in terms of actual noise floor (i.e what you actually hear from the speaker when there is no active signal coming in) there is zero difference. So that difference in noise s-units that you see is a meter issue, not a receiver RF performance issue. Cheers.
LifeIsTooShortForQRP also probably hearing it on my crappy phone dose not help much either all good though 👍 Been watching your videos over the years all good stuff
An update on that issue: I actually just bought the 10-pole 2.3 kHz Collins filter from Inrad, for my FT-818. (Only recently though, months after I made this video). My advice: Save your money. Almost NO difference with the stock ceramic filter.....
Well 3 years later I have ended up with a FT818 and it’s been 2years since I had the 817 and I’m glad to have one again I do like these little radios and I will be taking it to Australia in September and see how we get on with it as a portable set
Although you are correct that "high stability" does not necessarily mean that it also is "accurate", the two are obviously linked to each other in practice. To elaborate, when a manufacturer produces (as an example) a 30 MHz TCXO oscillator module, and they do that with an accuracy of 0.1 PPM at room temperature, it would not make much sense to let that module have a huge temperature coefficient resulting in high inaccuracies at other temperatures. So yes, strictly spoken you are right, but no manufacturer in his right mind would produce a high stability oscillator (stable over a large temperature range) without a high accuracy for the specified frequency as well.
I am a brand new tech here, but to understand, would this be because the radio is meant for expedition and will be potentially operated over a huge range of temperature compared to base rigs? I am trying to wrap my head around it all and videos such as this are really helping me out!
Hi, not especially meant for expeditions and huge temperature change and range. To put it simply it is to prevent a radio to start drifting of from the intended frequency you put it on. Any temperature change whether the temp change comes from outside or inside the radio. Radio's also warm themselves up, especially if the radio also has a transmitter on board. Most modern radios don't really require a TCXO (temperature controlled crystal oscillator). I'm a ham for 45+ years, only 2 radios I owned had/have a TCXO, the other 20 or so didn't. The one radio was a 7000+ US$ radio and the TCXO came standard and the other is a tiny for portable work also with a TCXO standard installed. I operated JT65 for years, that meant a 100% duty cycle at 100W for 48" at the time every other minute when I was chasing, never ever did the radio drift. In between those 'PA cooking' sessions i regularly WSPRed, on receiving 0 Hz drift, ZERO. To put it bluntly, most operators install a TCXO without them having a need for it. Same for frequency accuracy, they want to have Hertz perfect accuracy. You don't want to be a kHz or 100 Hz of but who cares if you're 10 Hz or even less of. Even EME enthusiasts do not require it, I know since a friend of mine is into EME (moonbounce). In other words don't spend good money on a TCXO. Most modern radios are by design frequency stable enough (0.5 to 1 PPM), the boat anchors have no provision for it. The very cheap modern radios (Chinese and less than 25 US$) are crystal controlled most of the time (1 crystal) and them too are reasonably stable. Don't go crazy on so much of the buzz in amateur radio. Gust ON6KE
I'm not surprised about that, since the receiver design is unchanged. But for the FT-818, they did add a few more "conductive sponges" in the radio here and there, to throttle the birdies down somewhat.
Thanks for this great comparison video. You just saved me a load of money. I will be holding on to my trusty 817 👍
6:19 The FT817 is specified to do 5W on all bands.. So the 818 adds 0,92dB, sounds worse and isn't compatible with e.g. programming software for the 817 any more. Thanks Yaesu - better luck next time..
I have an 818 and had a 2013 year 817. To me, the 818 receiver is much less noisy and less tiresome to listen to, and on vhf and uhf is extremely sensitive. I know which I prefer.
The FT-817 (818) is really a nice radio , despite what people might say about it. Of all the radio's I have, I have used the FT-817 the most (now the 818). Because it is so easy to use (and to set-up) and the receiver works very well. I was able to sell the 817 for a good price (it had the optional TCXO in it) and was able to buy an 818 with no added money (in a black Friday sale at HRO), that's why I upgraded to the FT-818. So before I boxed up the FT-817 for the new oner, I made this video. Cheers!
It’s because the ft817 speaker has been broken in over time and ft818 is still tight
As I understand it, the primary reason for Yaesu's upgrade to the FT-818 was that the Finals used in the FT-817 went out of production, thus they had to find a replacement Finals transistor which required a redesign of the Power Amplifier Board to accommodate the new Power transistors. Thus the new model number, as even though the appearance is the same, the internals are not (due to the Finals transistor and new board). It is disappointing that they could not give us a decent upgrade on the internal battery as well as the included TXCO. Will I upgrade from my 817 to an 818...... HELL NO. If my 817 dies a tragic death, then I will revert to my two FT-7's (Yes, two of them, old but GOOD!!!!!!!)
Very nice! Amazing audio difference! I think the FT817 with a generic TCXO is a better radio than the 818.
Thanks for the comparison.
I got the 817ND three years ago with £45 cash back on the price. It was just before the 818 came out.
The only big thing to interest me is the high stability oscillator in the 818.
If I had an 818 I'd be tempted to turn the power down to 5 Watts to save battery power. There would be no difference to a station receiving me on air between 5 Watts or 6 Watts.
My H.f. stability is good and only one QSO on 2m ssb when portable and one on c.w. from home said about a bit of drift although the c.w. contact said it could be at his end. I mainly work h.f.
The other good thing is the 60m band is now on the 818.
The c.w. filter is too expensive and bumps up the total price so I used an old HC6U 455 kHz crystal soldered in for a cheap filter rather then pay out again, at least £120 for a filter. It works well enough to cut out some QRM.
Bill, G4GHB.
What you might want to do is to buy one of those Chinese TCXOs for your FT-817: www.ebay.com/itm/181711941348 . $27, shipped, you can't beat that. I had that installed in my 817 and they work perfect. The 818 indeed has it built-in already from the factory. It is not like an 817 chassis with the TCXO already plugged in, they did a re-layout to facilitate the TCXO module as a permanently soldered unit on the board. By the way, the FT-817 also can transmit on 60 meter, but you have to move some diodes around on the control head PCB (requires SMT soldering skills though). When implemented, the 817 can transmit across the complete HF band, including 60 meter. Search the internet, I think mods.dk has a good article about it. Cheers.
@@LifeIsTooShortForQRP Thanks for the reply. Yes, I looked at those Chinese TCXO's but some people said they were noisy which put me off. Most of my operating is h.f. anyway so no problem.
I've also looked at the mod. to get the radio on 60m but not bothered yet as that's the reason the h/b rig is in bits: I want to add 60m with it's extra bandpass filters which means I had to put it in a larger box.
Perhaps if we get more h.f. bands as stations move off short wave I might modify the 817.
73, Bill, G4GHB.
Hello Dear!
firts at all... thanks for the comparation!
the first thing I see, it´s a big difference in the receivers, when you listen in 20mts, in the 818 don´t have noise, but in the 817 you´ll see a permanent s7.... maybe a configuration difference, ipo maybe?
thanks again
I had the fist edition of the 817... now I´m waiting a new c4fm all mode qrp radio to buy it!!! hehehe
a hug from Barcelona!
Hi, nice video. Do you know whaty is the difference between ND and non-ND versions?
I think 818n sounds like had a some band pass filter modification on receiver audio by Yaesu engineers. Perhaps, some capacitor in the circuit modify the bass response o perhaps different speaker. I have a 818 bought with Yaesu cash back program, similar prices like second hand 817nd. I think better new with tcxo, more mah battery and 1 watt more at same price, for this my decision. But it's true, no big differences if you can buy 817nd a good price. Thanks for video! 73s ea4is
The 817 has a nicer more realistic audio quality in receive.
Where did you found that 817ND is specified at 4W please?
Did I say 4 watts in the video? If I did, that would be wrong. The 817 manual says 5 watts. Cheers.
Yes, you said 4W which surprised me…;) Do not worry its clarified now, hi. You should also mention in vid that 817ND is able to provide full 5W when battery powered while 818ND do not do it…:) 73 Petr
I have several Yaesu radios including the FT-818 which I just received recently. The 818 has a tiny piece of debris in between the LCD display and the clear plastic in front of the display. I figured I could get it removed myself and I didn't think it was worth shipping it back.
Yes, the front comes off pretty easy. You need to take that front off anyway if you want to change the jumper for general coverage TX.
But I do think it is disappointing that Yaesu's QC process has deteriorated to the point where they would not have caught that dirt-speck in the display themselves.
@@LifeIsTooShortForQRP Ok thanks. Hopefully it won't be too hard to operate on it. I've changed my cell phone battery with microscopic screws before so this should be pretty easy.
Olá amigo , o meu também tinha esse resíduo e tentei abrir por fim quase estraguei o display do meu 818 , esse resíduo é a fita de ligação do display que fica pressionada contra o plástico
i would not buy a radio that does not have a service manual. plus the 817 in my opinion sounded better. but i'm still considering either the Yeasu 991a or the Icom 706mk11g.
Robert, go for the FT-991A in that case - the IC-706MKIIG has an FM and AM receiver bandwidth as wide as a barn door; more than 30 kHz with a terrible shape factor. It is almost like the IC-706MKIIG uses nothing more but a simple LC filter for that. By the way - this FT-817ND is much better in that respect. it has the right amount of bandwidth for each mode (6 kHz for AM, 12 kHz for FM) from a set of quality ceramic filters. Cheers.
@@LifeIsTooShortForQRP thanks i trust your opinion. stay safe.
Good evening, good video, please can you give us the parameters of the hidden menu of the FT-818 to compare with the menu of an FT-817, thanks HK3TKI
Interesting comparison.
03:56 - the 818 seems to have S7 of noise yet the 818 does not - wonder why that is?
Filtering difference or a DSP setting somewhere different between them?
neither radio has dsp.
Are you Dutch originally (voice)?
Thanks for this great video.
You know I don't understand why you would get an 817/818 for a qrp radio when a ICOM 706 is almost the same size (almost, a little bigger). It runs 5w qrp to 100w. Or even a Yaesu 857. You can still find them out there. why settle for less when you can have more.
People don't settle for less, they have both and use them differently. 100W rigs are horribly inefficient at QRP. Things do start to improve at 25W+ but it's still really bad, here's why...
My 818 draws 0.35A on RX & 2.4A at 6W TX, and the 891 draws 1.1A on RX & 9A at 25W TX - so it uses almost 3 times more power on RX, and nearly 4X more power on TX for only 6db gain - which is just +1 S unit!
That +1 S unit adds 3.5kg in weight, and at 80W (+2 S units) things are even worse because it draws 14 Amps! It's just not worth it, so I only use the 891 when I'm not venturing too far away from my car.
I suggest get a 100 watt rig . The FT noise drives me nuts.
Good video, but you failed to show power consumption. Us portable guys like to know. My 817 draws about .59amps on standby.
Good point. I do not think there is a difference between the two during receive (because the schematic diagrams are identical) but I can test. I would assume the 818 draws a bit more than the 817 at highest TX power level because it puts out a bit more at that level.
What is your call sign?
Sounds like u are from PA??
Buenas noches, tengo un FT-817ND, me gustaría poder subirle a 6 watios, puede por favor regalarme los parámetros ocultos de su FT-818, puede hacer un video y enseñarlos lentamente para copiarlos, muchas gracias. HK3TKI
So the 818 has slightly better filtering by the looks of the noise floor ?
But the 817 is the better option would like to see how the 817 works against the 818 if you put a Collins YF122s in the 817
Still interesting to see the differences aren’t that much you will have to pop the tops off so we can have a view of the insides
Sam, I think the differences between s-meter readings on noise floor between the two is purely because of the way Yaesu has set the linearity of the meter between the 817 and 818. That seems to be different between the two radios (the 817 seems to have a much more sensitive s-reading at low level signals). But in terms of actual noise floor (i.e what you actually hear from the speaker when there is no active signal coming in) there is zero difference. So that difference in noise s-units that you see is a meter issue, not a receiver RF performance issue. Cheers.
LifeIsTooShortForQRP also probably hearing it on my crappy phone dose not help much either all good though 👍
Been watching your videos over the years all good stuff
An update on that issue: I actually just bought the 10-pole 2.3 kHz Collins filter from Inrad, for my FT-818. (Only recently though, months after I made this video). My advice: Save your money. Almost NO difference with the stock ceramic filter.....
@@LifeIsTooShortForQRP wow now that surprises me
Thanks for the info on that
Well 3 years later I have ended up with a FT818 and it’s been 2years since I had the 817 and I’m glad to have one again
I do like these little radios and I will be taking it to Australia in September and see how we get on with it as a portable set
What has 'high stability' to do with 'frequency accuracy'? Very little, you're mistaken there.
Gust ON6KE
Although you are correct that "high stability" does not necessarily mean that it also is "accurate", the two are obviously linked to each other in practice. To elaborate, when a manufacturer produces (as an example) a 30 MHz TCXO oscillator module, and they do that with an accuracy of 0.1 PPM at room temperature, it would not make much sense to let that module have a huge temperature coefficient resulting in high inaccuracies at other temperatures. So yes, strictly spoken you are right, but no manufacturer in his right mind would produce a high stability oscillator (stable over a large temperature range) without a high accuracy for the specified frequency as well.
I am a brand new tech here, but to understand, would this be because the radio is meant for expedition and will be potentially operated over a huge range of temperature compared to base rigs? I am trying to wrap my head around it all and videos such as this are really helping me out!
Hi, not especially meant for expeditions and huge temperature change and range. To put it simply it is to prevent a radio to start drifting of from the intended frequency you put it on. Any temperature change whether the temp change comes from outside or inside the radio. Radio's also warm themselves up, especially if the radio also has a transmitter on board. Most modern radios don't really require a TCXO (temperature controlled crystal oscillator). I'm a ham for 45+ years, only 2 radios I owned had/have a TCXO, the other 20 or so didn't. The one radio was a 7000+ US$ radio and the TCXO came standard and the other is a tiny for portable work also with a TCXO standard installed.
I operated JT65 for years, that meant a 100% duty cycle at 100W for 48" at the time every other minute when I was chasing, never ever did the radio drift.
In between those 'PA cooking' sessions i regularly WSPRed, on receiving 0 Hz drift, ZERO. To put it bluntly, most operators install a TCXO without them having a need for it. Same for frequency accuracy, they want to have Hertz perfect accuracy. You don't want to be a kHz or 100 Hz of but who cares if you're 10 Hz or even less of. Even EME enthusiasts do not require it, I know since a friend of mine is into EME (moonbounce).
In other words don't spend good money on a TCXO. Most modern radios are by design frequency stable enough (0.5 to 1 PPM), the boat anchors have no provision for it. The very cheap modern radios (Chinese and less than 25 US$) are crystal controlled most of the time (1 crystal) and them too are reasonably stable.
Don't go crazy on so much of the buzz in amateur radio.
Gust ON6KE
Still has the birdies on 40 meters :(
I'm not surprised about that, since the receiver design is unchanged. But for the FT-818, they did add a few more "conductive sponges" in the radio here and there, to throttle the birdies down somewhat.
Whats the whtt meater called
Bird-43
ราคาแพงไหมคับ
About US$650
www.hamradio.com/detail.cfm?pid=H0-016097
LifeisalsoQRP !!