@@MorrisseyMuse I'm a millennial gamer and struggled to enjoy my favorite Zelda game (Link's Awakening) when it remastered with this art style. The framerate dips are so distracting from an otherwise great game. It's unfortunate that it's still a problem. Nintendo is 7 years late on making system that can handle the games they make for it.
@@gokhan7482 I tried playing the first 30 mins of the game in handheld mode. The moment you go into the castle town and start moving, the framerate tanks. I saved the game and closed it. I don't know if I'm going to continue playing when I can wait for a better experience with a better system in a few months.
I'm very disappointed that the framerate issues are worse this time. A 30fps cap would be nice. Otherwise hopefully the Switch 2 can run this better. If not, it's a miss for me.
@@Moshugaani Some of their 1st party games still have no volume sliders in the options menu so I doubt they would give you the option to lock the framerate.
@@Moshugaani A system level option that you have on other handhelds with emulators. This is amazing how pirates enjoys this game more than us, who bought this game at 60 USD.
@@barebarekun161 Tell me about it!! It's absurd how few options they usually offer! :D They really have a "our games are good enough as they are" mentality.
The framerate issues really made a bad first impression and it always feels bad when it happens. But the game is fun enough that I'll bear with it! Thankfully indoors and dungeons don't lag. Here's hoping for a performance patch and/or an option for a 30 fps cap. EDIT: I have to add that the issue doesn't "feel" nearly as bad when playing handheld. It looks much worse on the big screen. I dunno what it is but the Switch's own display makes the motion in 30 fps blend more than on my other displays.
@@balthezor I only play games that run at 60 fps on my Switch. If Super Mario Odyssey can run at 60 fps, there is no reason this game can't. They just didn't want to make any effort to optimize it.
Should be locked at 30. I have no problem with 30 fps locked especially on switch. But this is so erratic it will be distacting. Links awakening did not look near as bad. Edit: I saw a reply that says it should have been capped at 30 and I agree. I didn't think of that. Capping at 30 would potentially allow this game to run at a higher framrate on switch 2.
@@kevinbuchanan67stable 30 is way better looking then unstable 60. especially because the Switch doesn‘t support vrr on TV‘s, so it looks even worse on a big screen.
There is simply no excuse for a switch game released this late into the console's lifecycle to run this erratically. If you can't fix the underlying streaming issue, cap it at 30FPS. I don't care what console we're talking about. If a game alternates between one frame rate and *half* of that, that's not a hardware issue; it's poor optimisation, and even poorer design choice Years of artists lives reduced to a stuttery, rubber-bandy mess because one guy decided not to flip a switch
@Garrus-w2hthen lock 60 in dungeons and lock 30 outdoors. changing framerate after a fade to black is not nearly so jarring as changing it constantly as you move around
@@finthechatboisqwq5602 I'm not sure how you were able to come up with that just because the two games share a good number of assets. Come on, think harder. 💪 There's a better reason why one would think EoW was initially made for Switch 2 and not LA. You can do it! 🧠💪
Emulate it on PC. Stable 60. Although it should be capped on switch. Since it isn't, it allows the frame rate to reach the 60 limit on stronger hardware.
It's really nice when it is 60fps, I mean just look at A Link Between Worlds, but if it's going to be unstable then yes a solid 30 would be much better
Putting CFW on my switch so I could overclock it has been one of the best decisions. TotK ran so much better and games like this benefit from it a lot.
Traditional gaming media rarely comments on technical aspects like DF does, either due to ineptitude, bias or fear of being boycotted by publishers. Just like reviews didn't mention Elden Ring optimization issues and awarded it the GOTY, even though the game is a complete technical failure like most FromSoftware games are.
There are a lot of game review outlets whose writers are basically amateurs when it comes to video games. Often journalism degrees and the like, but virtually zero technical knowledge and only limited cultural understanding of video games. FWIW, this isn't limited to video games. If there's a topic you know a lot about, try reading some news articles written about it and so on. Pretty much without fail you'll see that the writers usually only have extremely limited understanding of what they're writing about. This isn't necessarily the individual writers fault - I mean sometimes it is, but sometimes also the outlets simply provide extremely limited time for stories so they simply don't have time to educate themselves to the point where they can actually write a competent article, and hey they have to win their bread somehow so it's not like they're gonna refuse to write at all just because the article will be a bit crap. I do think people who work a longer time for outlets focused on a particular topic have less excuses for lack of knowledge though.
“For the first time since the 90s” - just wanted to point out that Spirit Tracks had Zelda as a significant playable character. Great, overlooked game.
Great example of a canonical game. John however referenced the CD-i, so if he's including non-canonical spin-offs, then we've got loads of more recent examples than the CD-i, eg. Hyrule Warriors.
To be real dips were occurring not that often. I finished the game with 0 issues and really enjoyed it. It's fascinating how many crybabies are complaining about such insignificant things nowadays
Always happy to see (hear) John talking about audio in games. Good sound is so important and yet totally neglected by the majority of reviewers. Thanks John!
Developers used to go to insane lengths to workaround the limitations of the hardware. It’s too bad we don’t see that level of ingenuity anymore. And It’s a shame because this game deserved to have a stable frame rate on the console they released it for, not expectations of hypothetical performance of the next gen one.
There have always been games that performed horribly. Super FX SNES games like Stunt Race FX would run in literally single digit FPS while targeting 30. And there are still devs today who can get better framerate for their visual fidelity than most of their competitors because they put a lot of effort into engine optimization.
What sucks about this is that Nintendo almost never fixes performance issues like this either. With virtually any other modern game you can expect the devs to actually make the effort to fix performance issues with patches, but with Nintendo what you get at launch is typically what you'll get for the rest of the game's lifespan. Pokemon Scarlet and Violet comes to mind, and Link's Awakening Remake still has bad FPS dips to this day.
The most annoying part is if you have a hacked switch you could alleviate a ton of the issues by overclocking the Dram. In links awakening it pretty much removes most of the drops entirely. It's also, as far as overclocking stuff goes, not particularly battery intensive nor does it create a lot of extra heat. I wish developers were allowed to push the Dram clock up because it is shocking how many games frame drops are memory bandwidth related on the switch. The trade offs are so minimal but with such a big impact. For instance in TOTK a memory overclock removes all the drops to 20 fps and locks the game at 30 the entire time.
I was listening to Gamescoop podcase today and Sam had ZERO issues with the performance in this game. He mentioned that in all the play time and the discussion with people, performance was not a topic that ever came up. I think this is a case of "it dips from 60fps to 30fps"...yes, but most people just won't notice it happening.
I think a lot of people seem to forget the fact that most of the time Nintendo does backwards compatibility performance is identical on the new system 😂 It's not like DS games run any better on a 3DS compared to natively. It'll most likely be the same case for Switch 2
@@ericwindsor339 Because no game struggled to run on a DS, because they knew the limitations (Besides I dont know.... cod?). The latest firmware have lines of code about better retrocompatibility performance.
It's a lens effect called tilt-shift, also known as depth of field. It renders accurately on the top of the screen, while the band at the bottom is literally only a smear of blur filtering... Half-assed and redundant...
I think it really clashes with the "toybox" art style they've chosen for LA and EoW. Like, if everything's going to look like plastic, there's no need to blur things in the distance like they're supposed to be 2 miles away. I know they're not because you already compromised realism for the sake of all this cutesy shiny plastic. And as an added bonus, it makes both games run like shit...
@@DRex45Nintendo have no direct control of Pokemon Company. They more like a main investor and business partner to them, isn't? So this is a little different case.
@@SISYPHEgame not really, it’s basically the whole screen now sharp and full of detail. Maybe they use it to improve perfomance slightly? Still though, I play overclocked and don’t notice this.
meh.. the frame rate annoyed me at first but eventually i just stopped paying attention to it and enjoyed the game. it's not bad enough that it makes you wanna stop playing.. and lets be honest, most consumers aren't pc nerds caring about frame rates and technical bs. just beat it last night. great game!
I agree with all of this. The performance is such an eyesore in an otherwise great presentation, and the beginning did seem a little slow to grab me, having so few items to work with. But once you spend some time with it and learn just how flexible the game can be, it becomes a lot of fun and the gimmick of summoning things really shines.
@@iamnotkurtcobain Yeah but we shouldn't wait for a new console for it to get fixed, they should've at least given us a locked 30fps and unlocked fps option.
My question is why don't they enable triple buffering? it will most likely allow the framerate to be at 60 way more often, it's a game controlled by a controller.. you really can't tell the difference in input latency, yes triple buffering increases performance, i recommend anyone who doesn't mind a slight additional input delay who want extra frames to just go enable it globally in your GPU manufacturers software. having that extra frame buffered goes a long way.
I can definitely feel input lag on controller. I don't think call of duty would have been so successful if it wasn't locked at 60fps and super responsive on controller. But of course it matters less for this kind of game.
Not locking at 30 stinks like it did for Link’s Awakening remake on current hardware, but should be nice on future hardware or uh…alternative means of playing
This style of game really should perform better, a shame they never improved the performance and it should not come down to more powerful hardware to fix.
This is really interesting, all the footage made the game look like it was running at somewhere between 480p and 720p, but we can see here it's running at 1080 in at least some areas.
I was done with 30 fps games after Links Awakening. Just building up a back catalogue for the Switch 2 assuming they manage backward compatibility and do free 60 fps patches.
For me, "enhanced" patches for OG Switch titles would be the best gimmick they can come up with for the Switch 2. That and with extensive backwards compatibility similar to how Xbox Series X can play even the OG Xbox games. Heck, a lot of people are emulating Nintendo games from different generations on Steam and other handheld PCs, Nintendo might as well go along with it.
@@rendelldraw Same, I love my PS5 but as the generation ages if we see more and more 30 fps games I'll just skip them and wait on picking them up until next gen or play on PC. PS5 for me for the 1st year or more was just catching up on PS4 games I skipped. I'd like to play Breath of the Wild again but I can't be bothered playing 20 fps when running about in long grass in the rain. Horse back archery became such a chore when it chugged and boy did it chug at times.
@@CyberTrump2077that doesn't matter. A lot of PS4 games are locked to 30 but can run in 60 on PS4 Pro or PS5. They could simply make the game detect if it's running in Switch mode or Switch 2 backwards compatibility mode.
@@leatherhidegaming If I'm remembering right, God of War had unlocked framerate at launch, but later they released an update that locked it to 30. When the PS4 Pro came out, it was still locked at 30, but without the update you could play it at smooth 60FPS
I thought it was really interesting how you tested for the bottleneck and found it to be the CPU/Memory rather than what everyone would assume. Really clear explanation too :)
I would have no problem with a consistent 30fps, just like a lot of other titles commit to. I would have thought a capped framerate would have been a priority for Nintendo. It's a shame for sure, but not a deal breaker.
I enjoyed Links Awakening but I’ll hold off on this in hopes the Switch 2 smooths the performance. I anticipate this title being on sale or discounted by that time too.
Question... Can the RetroTINK4K apply an artificial framecap to 30 if the Switch is running into its HDMI input? If not, is that a feature that Mike could add in firmware?
Dang, Astro Bot has changed the way I look at Nintendo games. They need to step it up on the Switch 2 hardware to compete with the fluid visuals and performance that Astro Bot delivers. And to top it off, it's one of the most fun I've had playing a video game in a really long time!
Oh yeah Astro Bot destroys all 3D mario games combined its not even a question. It renders Mario Galaxy and Oddyssey complete jokes. No other 3D platformer innovated at the level Astro Bot did. It literally revolutionized the industry as far as platformers go
This is a case where it's WAY better in handheld mode. I had serious issues with the frame drops on my big TV but on the small screen it isn't as noticeable. Also the surround sound isn't great on it and the graphics are pretty simple and work well shrunk down so there's not that big a loss playing it handheld.
I noticed the framerate issues in Link’s Awakening but it never bothered me. I almost exclusively played it in handheld so I don’t know if that helped to hide it somewhat. I’ve not played Echoes yet but I’m hoping the issues don’t bother me as well. I’ll be playing it mostly on the big screen with my daughters so I hope that doesn’t make it more noticeable.
@@dorian6021 Actually, what I said was "look it up," which is not useless. Googling something (which I recommend you do with the word "literally") is often a great way to educate yourself. But since I know you have difficulty figuring out how the internet works, I'll help you out. It means circular reasoning. For example: The Bible is the word of God, and we know that because the Bible says so, and we can believe the Bible because it was written by God. That's circular reasoning.
@@dorian6021Only a VERY biased search attempt would yield that (false) definition and not the real one. It shows up in a few places now to reflect the vast number of people who misuse it, but that doesn't make it correct.
@@dorian6021 The word "question" in the phrase "begs the question" is not at all related to our modern usage of the word. It's a very old phrase. It translates to something like "assumes the conclusion."
@@dorian6021 I have been posting links, but apparently comments with links in them get automatically removed without even informing me. From the website with the word vocabulary followed by a period followed by the word com: In rhetoric, to beg the question is to make an argument that assumes the truth of its conclusion, rather than proving it. When you say, "My dog's the best dog because he's the greatest," you beg the question. Begging the question is also known as "circular reasoning," because in order for your argument to be true, the conclusion has to be true. In informal, everyday use, beg the question means "to raise a fairly obvious but still unanswered question." If your neighbor got hit by lightning on the roof of their house, it would beg the question: what were they doing on the roof in a thunderstorm? Though it's best avoided in formal contexts, this usage is the more common one. If you don't have tunnel vision, you'll find that your Oxford dictionary also has the correct meaning of the phrase listed alongside the wrong one.
Most games lag more than Skyward Sword considering it's a solid 60 fps 99.9% of the time. Digital foundry only managed to see frame drops in one specific boss battle. Also a hd version of a wii game should be expected to perform better than a modern game no? So the fact this lags more than Skyward Sword HD is not saying much at all. Even so I hated the sudden framdrops in Link's Awakening Remake and won't be buying this until I see it running at a solid 60 fps on Switch 2.
OOT? LOL I raise you a Turok 2? haha frames were teens/single digits without the memory expansion for N64. Hell the game would almost freeze when you used certain weapons. Kids these days don't know what bad framerates are. Starfox SNES? A fucking slide show... Most N64 games were capped at 20fps and no one cared, FF7 considered one of the greatest games of all time had 15fps battles, and everyone thought it was amazing. Movies are 24fps... imo they should have capped this game at 24fps then it would be a total non issue. Again it's not low framerate people notice it's jumps up and down, nintendo needs to just release a patch it's a super easy fix. 60FPS is NOT needed for any RPG/Adventure game, period, not needed.
Kinda disappointed tbh. A locked 30 would be nice. I’m gonna pick up the game today anyway and see how I like it on the switch, but if the frame rates too much I might dump it and try it on Yuzu/Ryujinx and see if I have any better luck
@@DarkSoulsFan12345 In Suyu you can setup your performance to unlimited speed. In Ryujinx that isn’t possible. So this gaves you a smoother gameplay. However I experienced an issue a hour ago in the still world. The audio us very loud there. This isn’t the case on Ryujinx.
@@struissie9886 so then what you said is incorrect and ill informed + not only that but you reviewed the two in comparison and came to a 'conclusion' without being sure about what you're talking about. next time think before you speak.
The performance is 1 reason why I emulate. There is a mod to take out the unstable framerate parts and the edge of screen blur. Thank goodness Ryujinx could get the EoW optimization done before they were taken out. RIP switch emulation.
Just started playing earlier today (haven't watched the video yet) and I was worried when I saw all the drops when you first get to Hyrule Castle village. I winced a bit knowing that this video was already out - but, so far so good aside from that brutal opening to the game.
I consider it mandatory at this point to have an overclocked Switch. The newest version of EOS gives you a ton of adjustment compared to the old sys-clk. I've got my Erista's RAM up to about 2100 MHz with tightened timings, undervolted CPU and GPU to run higher frequencies in handheld, and it just chews through games without issue. The best part: thanks to the udnervolt, I get better battery life at the same time.
They didn't patch the Link's Awakening remake and they didn't fix whatever underlying issues there are in the new game. There's not going to be a patch. There's only going to be better hardware.
Its sad that Switch modders and switch emulation enthusiasts are going to be playing this game at 60fps, while Switch owners aren't even getting a locked frame-rate or a full HD experience. Thaaaaaaanks Nintendo... 😬
@ausgod538 (edited because I'm an @ss) I read that comment a lot more differently. But yeah, I agree with the sentiment that they can enjoy it, power to them. But they can't call it the definitive way to play.
Cool that this is based around A Link to the Past, my first Zelda back around when it released. But with that performance I’ll wait till the Switch 2 to pick this up.
I have zero idea as to how to get one running. Specifically, on my phone. Also, I have zero knowledge of where I can acquire archival copies of games like this. Any pointers?
I respect DF so much but I'm tired of hearing that this game's absolute shit performance (and Link's Awakening too) is Switch's fault, not the developers. Disappointing as now everyone on the internet will parrot this nonsense. There are far more ambitious and demanding games on Switch that run great.
My guy, how the hell do you know it's the devs? You can absolutely blame the switch because it's a mobile chip from 2015. Is it the devs' fault that TotK drops fps whenever it wants to? From what I've played of Echoes, it is definitely a more complex game than Link's Awakening, the world is more detailed, a lot more npcs and objects you can spawn on the screen at once, horse mechanics and improvements to character models.
Switch can run an open world game Red Dead Redeption at 1080p30fps and Breath of the Wild at 900p 30fps with little dips in some areas. Microsoft optimized Ori Will of WIsps, a game that initially struggled on Xbox One X, until it ran at 900p60fps on Switch! Nintendo could and should make this simple top-down 3D game run at 1080p60fps.
@@ChicanerDiMarty "Is it the devs' fault that TotK drops fps whenever it wants to?" The devs could have done more in that game. Maybe they couldn't make it run 100% perfect, but if they optimized or reduced some taxing effects like the Ultrahand effect the slow downs would be less frequent. Also, I don't know why Nintendo didn't make available a RAM-boost option for handheld mode, similar to the 460mhz GPU boost some games use in handheld. It would help bandwidth starved games SO MUCH
Wish they would just offer a 30 fps lock option, which would let me enjoy it now and still preserve the ability to unlock it up to 60 on Switch 2 (theoretically).
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
60 to 30fps fluctuations are seriously irritating
Gannon's final attack and Nintendo's secret sauce on selling Switch 2
"The lord of darkness returns....unstable framerate" 😂😂😂😂
Classic!
Gannondorf got nothing on this. 🤣
This sums up modern Gen Z gamers. Don't play the game, focus on fps!
@@MorrisseyMuse I'm a millennial gamer and struggled to enjoy my favorite Zelda game (Link's Awakening) when it remastered with this art style. The framerate dips are so distracting from an otherwise great game. It's unfortunate that it's still a problem. Nintendo is 7 years late on making system that can handle the games they make for it.
@@gokhan7482 I tried playing the first 30 mins of the game in handheld mode. The moment you go into the castle town and start moving, the framerate tanks. I saved the game and closed it. I don't know if I'm going to continue playing when I can wait for a better experience with a better system in a few months.
I'm very disappointed that the framerate issues are worse this time. A 30fps cap would be nice. Otherwise hopefully the Switch 2 can run this better. If not, it's a miss for me.
It would be awesome if they allowed 30 fps cap as an option! It should be a system level option in fact.
@@Moshugaani Some of their 1st party games still have no volume sliders in the options menu so I doubt they would give you the option to lock the framerate.
@@Moshugaani A system level option that you have on other handhelds with emulators. This is amazing how pirates enjoys this game more than us, who bought this game at 60 USD.
@@barebarekun161 Tell me about it!! It's absurd how few options they usually offer! :D They really have a "our games are good enough as they are" mentality.
It's inacceptable to say the least! Especially after LA suffered from it. Very disappointed
The framerate issues really made a bad first impression and it always feels bad when it happens. But the game is fun enough that I'll bear with it! Thankfully indoors and dungeons don't lag.
Here's hoping for a performance patch and/or an option for a 30 fps cap.
EDIT: I have to add that the issue doesn't "feel" nearly as bad when playing handheld. It looks much worse on the big screen. I dunno what it is but the Switch's own display makes the motion in 30 fps blend more than on my other displays.
Knowing how badly Nintendo supports their games with performance updates, it'll probably never happen sadly..
no 60 fps locked, no purchase
@@yopadatoyou serious? It’s the Switch. 😂
@@balthezor I only play games that run at 60 fps on my Switch. If Super Mario Odyssey can run at 60 fps, there is no reason this game can't. They just didn't want to make any effort to optimize it.
Where do you see it in this video? Timestamp pls
Should be locked at 30. I have no problem with 30 fps locked especially on switch. But this is so erratic it will be distacting. Links awakening did not look near as bad.
Edit: I saw a reply that says it should have been capped at 30 and I agree. I didn't think of that. Capping at 30 would potentially allow this game to run at a higher framrate on switch 2.
I'm so glad it's not locked at 30
Nintendo is trash anyway they can go sue someone else have zero interest in their products anymore
@@kevinbuchanan67there should be an option to lock at 30fps. What's the point of 60fps if it drops down to 30-40fps nearly half the time at random?
@@Dribin An option would be cool, but condemning the whole game to look like crap rather than just bits and pieces is the worst "fix" ever.
@@kevinbuchanan67stable 30 is way better looking then unstable 60. especially because the Switch doesn‘t support vrr on TV‘s, so it looks even worse on a big screen.
There is simply no excuse for a switch game released this late into the console's lifecycle to run this erratically. If you can't fix the underlying streaming issue, cap it at 30FPS. I don't care what console we're talking about. If a game alternates between one frame rate and *half* of that, that's not a hardware issue; it's poor optimisation, and even poorer design choice
Years of artists lives reduced to a stuttery, rubber-bandy mess because one guy decided not to flip a switch
@Garrus-w2hthen lock 60 in dungeons and lock 30 outdoors. changing framerate after a fade to black is not nearly so jarring as changing it constantly as you move around
I'm wishfully thinking that they originally created this for the Switch 2 but just ported it to the OG Switch.
@@rendelldraw I suppose they must've created Link's Awakening for the Switch 2 as well back in 2019
@@finthechatboisqwq5602 I'm not sure how you were able to come up with that just because the two games share a good number of assets.
Come on, think harder. 💪 There's a better reason why one would think EoW was initially made for Switch 2 and not LA. You can do it! 🧠💪
@@rendelldraw I was being facetious; I don't actually believe either game was designed for the Switch 2. Performance is terrible in both games
Damn, they really should’ve just aimed for a stable 30 fps. Top-down Zelda is not the type of game that NEEDS to be 60.
I got motion sick just watching this review. It's insane that they allowed this in the final product.
Emulate it on PC. Stable 60. Although it should be capped on switch. Since it isn't, it allows the frame rate to reach the 60 limit on stronger hardware.
It's really nice when it is 60fps, I mean just look at A Link Between Worlds, but if it's going to be unstable then yes a solid 30 would be much better
I don't know... The whole issue for me is that this art style in particular really needs 60fps to sing. That's why it stung so much in LA.
@@kenneldyeah and even LA had some annoying frame drops.
Putting CFW on my switch so I could overclock it has been one of the best decisions. TotK ran so much better and games like this benefit from it a lot.
Considering this for my V1 switch. I wonder how much better some games will run at the higher clock.
I’ve still got my launch day Switch. Will definitely get CFW on there eventually.
It might actually be a good idea. Did you also update the cooling system?
How do you do that?
@@mgnoodle2589 They have a nice guide if you look up "switch cfw guide"
I find it somewhat perplexing that Nintendo would permit such a level of performance for a Zelda title.
Is this a Zelda title or a Link title? 🙃
@@S8ER 🤣
Age of Calamity begs to differ lol.
Both BOTW and TOTK ran like shit. This is very on brand.
if they allowed Scarlet and Violet release in the state it did originally, anything can happen
How was this not mentioned in a single review I've read? maddening.
I was thinking the same thing, it’s pretty shitty to leave something like this out.
Traditional gaming media rarely comments on technical aspects like DF does, either due to ineptitude, bias or fear of being boycotted by publishers.
Just like reviews didn't mention Elden Ring optimization issues and awarded it the GOTY, even though the game is a complete technical failure like most FromSoftware games are.
There are a lot of game review outlets whose writers are basically amateurs when it comes to video games. Often journalism degrees and the like, but virtually zero technical knowledge and only limited cultural understanding of video games.
FWIW, this isn't limited to video games. If there's a topic you know a lot about, try reading some news articles written about it and so on. Pretty much without fail you'll see that the writers usually only have extremely limited understanding of what they're writing about. This isn't necessarily the individual writers fault - I mean sometimes it is, but sometimes also the outlets simply provide extremely limited time for stories so they simply don't have time to educate themselves to the point where they can actually write a competent article, and hey they have to win their bread somehow so it's not like they're gonna refuse to write at all just because the article will be a bit crap.
I do think people who work a longer time for outlets focused on a particular topic have less excuses for lack of knowledge though.
Every single review I’ve read has said it
Biased people. Nintendo can do no wrong apparently, technically abysmal games always get good reviews regardless on how poor they run
“For the first time since the 90s” - just wanted to point out that Spirit Tracks had Zelda as a significant playable character. Great, overlooked game.
Great example of a canonical game. John however referenced the CD-i, so if he's including non-canonical spin-offs, then we've got loads of more recent examples than the CD-i, eg. Hyrule Warriors.
@@SITSIndustries Oh yes, in that case Hyrule Warriors certainly is even more recent.
You don't play as her, she follow Link's commands
@@DGFTardin You could argue that both follow the players commands, since both are controlled with the touchscreen and not directly with actual buttons
Yeah but not the main character
Performance is really bad. The framerate dips are very noticeable and kill the fun for me :(
Runs perfect 60fps on Ryujinx to hell with Nintendo they can go sue someone else not buying their junk
@@JFinns if it's junk, why do you play it?
@@37654i believe they are taking about the switch. It's junk because it can't even run a simple game like the at a stable 60.
@@Dribin Because it's outdated hardware in 2024 lmao
mmm that's a real shame, the unstable framerate prevented me from enjoying LInk's Awakening. That and the blur tilt effect was terrible too.
To be real dips were occurring not that often. I finished the game with 0 issues and really enjoyed it. It's fascinating how many crybabies are complaining about such insignificant things nowadays
Always happy to see (hear) John talking about audio in games. Good sound is so important and yet totally neglected by the majority of reviewers. Thanks John!
11:35 Always checking behind waterfalls, I see
Already in love with the music ❤
Developers used to go to insane lengths to workaround the limitations of the hardware. It’s too bad we don’t see that level of ingenuity anymore. And It’s a shame because this game deserved to have a stable frame rate on the console they released it for, not expectations of hypothetical performance of the next gen one.
xenoblade chronicles 3 achieves a LOT on the switch
Some rose-tinted glasses there.
Lol, like when? NES and SNES era? Most games were played in actual slow motion. PS2 and 3? Frame rates were rollercoasting at that time.
Not really. Every Nintendo system had performance issues, so I find it strange that people are suddenly surprised by this.
There have always been games that performed horribly. Super FX SNES games like Stunt Race FX would run in literally single digit FPS while targeting 30. And there are still devs today who can get better framerate for their visual fidelity than most of their competitors because they put a lot of effort into engine optimization.
What sucks about this is that Nintendo almost never fixes performance issues like this either. With virtually any other modern game you can expect the devs to actually make the effort to fix performance issues with patches, but with Nintendo what you get at launch is typically what you'll get for the rest of the game's lifespan. Pokemon Scarlet and Violet comes to mind, and Link's Awakening Remake still has bad FPS dips to this day.
The most annoying part is if you have a hacked switch you could alleviate a ton of the issues by overclocking the Dram. In links awakening it pretty much removes most of the drops entirely. It's also, as far as overclocking stuff goes, not particularly battery intensive nor does it create a lot of extra heat. I wish developers were allowed to push the Dram clock up because it is shocking how many games frame drops are memory bandwidth related on the switch. The trade offs are so minimal but with such a big impact. For instance in TOTK a memory overclock removes all the drops to 20 fps and locks the game at 30 the entire time.
I was listening to Gamescoop podcase today and Sam had ZERO issues with the performance in this game. He mentioned that in all the play time and the discussion with people, performance was not a topic that ever came up.
I think this is a case of "it dips from 60fps to 30fps"...yes, but most people just won't notice it happening.
Can't believe they didn't get locked fps for this one. Yet another wait for switch 2 for consistent fps game.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this was originally a Switch2 launch game/cross gen game
@@ReveriePass Yuzu ftw
I think a lot of people seem to forget the fact that most of the time Nintendo does backwards compatibility performance is identical on the new system 😂 It's not like DS games run any better on a 3DS compared to natively. It'll most likely be the same case for Switch 2
Or Yuzu lmao
@@ericwindsor339 Because no game struggled to run on a DS, because they knew the limitations (Besides I dont know.... cod?). The latest firmware have lines of code about better retrocompatibility performance.
Always happy to see(hear) John taking about audio to his reviews. Sound design is so important and yet neglected in most reviews.
I appreciate John for that. Another channel good for that is ACG.
Does anyone else hate the blur that goes from the edge of the screen to a few inches in all around. It drives me nuts
It's a lens effect called tilt-shift, also known as depth of field. It renders accurately on the top of the screen, while the band at the bottom is literally only a smear of blur filtering... Half-assed and redundant...
@WordsInVain i didnt ask what it was. I asked if others hated it.
I hate it too, but theres a mod to deactivate it and works with unlocked Switchs and emus
I think it really clashes with the "toybox" art style they've chosen for LA and EoW. Like, if everything's going to look like plastic, there's no need to blur things in the distance like they're supposed to be 2 miles away. I know they're not because you already compromised realism for the sake of all this cutesy shiny plastic. And as an added bonus, it makes both games run like shit...
@@thekiss2083 agreed
I am surprised Nintendo allowed the game to be released in this state.
Didn't the last pokemon game run like shit
@@DRex45Nintendo have no direct control of Pokemon Company. They more like a main investor and business partner to them, isn't? So this is a little different case.
They had no issues releasing Link's Awakening which was just as awful, and that was years ago, never fixed. Why would they care now?
Nintendo's Seal of Quality is non existent these days.
@@bloodstone1992Totally agree. They’ve become quite lax with quality control over the years.
Nothing like removing the awful DOF and actually playing at 99% stable 60fps. Gotta love an overclocked Switch OLED.
Wait I thought the depth of field was supposed to mask some of the tech stuff behind the scenes? Is it actually the source?
@@SISYPHEgame not really, it’s basically the whole screen now sharp and full of detail. Maybe they use it to improve perfomance slightly? Still though, I play overclocked and don’t notice this.
@@denisruskin348How can I OC my OLED switch?
@@rockyjetproject1345I think you'd need to get a mod chip to load custom firmware
@@nabagaca thank you
I found this game so entertaining that i barely noticed the performance hiccups lol
meh.. the frame rate annoyed me at first but eventually i just stopped paying attention to it and enjoyed the game. it's not bad enough that it makes you wanna stop playing.. and lets be honest, most consumers aren't pc nerds caring about frame rates and technical bs. just beat it last night. great game!
I agree with all of this. The performance is such an eyesore in an otherwise great presentation, and the beginning did seem a little slow to grab me, having so few items to work with. But once you spend some time with it and learn just how flexible the game can be, it becomes a lot of fun and the gimmick of summoning things really shines.
They should've locked it at 30fps...
I can’t believe that they didn’t after links awakening and all the complaints about that
Absolutely. But then again, it will be a locked 60 on Switch 2 without a Patch.
Not to mention that 30fps in handheld mode is far more bearable than in docked mode.
@@iamnotkurtcobain Yeah but we shouldn't wait for a new console for it to get fixed, they should've at least given us a locked 30fps and unlocked fps option.
Nah, they're thinking forward to switch 2, it'll run at 60fps then and sell even more copies again
Personally I've been playing for a few days now in docked mode and don't find the frame rate or PQ changes are affecting my enjoyment of the game.
My question is why don't they enable triple buffering? it will most likely allow the framerate to be at 60 way more often, it's a game controlled by a controller.. you really can't tell the difference in input latency, yes triple buffering increases performance, i recommend anyone who doesn't mind a slight additional input delay who want extra frames to just go enable it globally in your GPU manufacturers software. having that extra frame buffered goes a long way.
I can definitely feel input lag on controller. I don't think call of duty would have been so successful if it wasn't locked at 60fps and super responsive on controller. But of course it matters less for this kind of game.
@@spaceowl5957 yeah absolutely, you can feel the delay but its useful for games like this not fps shooters
Another great video from John and DF
Not locking at 30 stinks like it did for Link’s Awakening remake on current hardware, but should be nice on future hardware or uh…alternative means of playing
Playing on OCed switch and while it still drops some framerate it's ALOOOOOT smoother.
Whoever is actively performing and proclaiming emulation belongs excommunicated from gaming forever.
You can change camera view by pressing r3 ❤
This style of game really should perform better, a shame they never improved the performance and it should not come down to more powerful hardware to fix.
Improve or stay within realistic budgets. The slowdowns were definitely a choice here. There is no reason this cannot be run at 60hz
This is really interesting, all the footage made the game look like it was running at somewhere between 480p and 720p, but we can see here it's running at 1080 in at least some areas.
I was done with 30 fps games after Links Awakening. Just building up a back catalogue for the Switch 2 assuming they manage backward compatibility and do free 60 fps patches.
For me, "enhanced" patches for OG Switch titles would be the best gimmick they can come up with for the Switch 2. That and with extensive backwards compatibility similar to how Xbox Series X can play even the OG Xbox games.
Heck, a lot of people are emulating Nintendo games from different generations on Steam and other handheld PCs, Nintendo might as well go along with it.
@@rendelldraw Same, I love my PS5 but as the generation ages if we see more and more 30 fps games I'll just skip them and wait on picking them up until next gen or play on PC.
PS5 for me for the 1st year or more was just catching up on PS4 games I skipped.
I'd like to play Breath of the Wild again but I can't be bothered playing 20 fps when running about in long grass in the rain. Horse back archery became such a chore when it chugged and boy did it chug at times.
I've heard from dataminers that the 1.0.1 patch addresses the framerate. Doesn't improve it, but attempts to lock it to 30 anytime it goes under 60.
Why wouldn't they just lock the framerate at 30?
Maybe the game runs on Switch 2 with 60fps.
@@CyberTrump2077that doesn't matter. A lot of PS4 games are locked to 30 but can run in 60 on PS4 Pro or PS5. They could simply make the game detect if it's running in Switch mode or Switch 2 backwards compatibility mode.
Maybe Mark Cerny told them 30 is "choppy"? 😅
🤣 Anything below 30fps is virtually unplayable 😖
Shame the devs don't seem to care about consistency.
@@leatherhidegaming If I'm remembering right, God of War had unlocked framerate at launch, but later they released an update that locked it to 30.
When the PS4 Pro came out, it was still locked at 30, but without the update you could play it at smooth 60FPS
1:43 games shown are:
- Arzette: The Jewel of Faramore (2024)
- Super Monkey Ball Banana Rumble (2024)
- Castlevania Dominus Collection (2024)
- Gimmick! 2 (2024)
The intro to this game was 99% buttery smooth for me. I was so excited. Once i got to Zelda's playable portion outdoors, man does it absolutely CHUG
Thanks for the excellent coverage John!
Just glad its out now. Hopefully the fps drops arent THAT bad. Have fun everyone😊
are you enjoying it?
I thought it was really interesting how you tested for the bottleneck and found it to be the CPU/Memory rather than what everyone would assume. Really clear explanation too :)
Game would have been totally fine at 30.
I would have no problem with a consistent 30fps, just like a lot of other titles commit to. I would have thought a capped framerate would have been a priority for Nintendo. It's a shame for sure, but not a deal breaker.
I enjoyed Links Awakening but I’ll hold off on this in hopes the Switch 2 smooths the performance. I anticipate this title being on sale or discounted by that time too.
Playing it on rog ally x. I'm 4k 60 fps, 0 dollars paid.
Fu nintendo
The map is so interesting! I wonder if this game started off as a remake to Link to the Past before becoming what it is now
Question... Can the RetroTINK4K apply an artificial framecap to 30 if the Switch is running into its HDMI input? If not, is that a feature that Mike could add in firmware?
Not possible
sounds like a really bad idea when it comes to input lag
Blessed to play on overclocked switch, constant 60 fps is more than possible
I can't wait for them to release this in 4 years on the Switch 2 and at full price / 60fps
Dang, Astro Bot has changed the way I look at Nintendo games. They need to step it up on the Switch 2 hardware to compete with the fluid visuals and performance that Astro Bot delivers. And to top it off, it's one of the most fun I've had playing a video game in a really long time!
Oh yeah Astro Bot destroys all 3D mario games combined its not even a question. It renders Mario Galaxy and Oddyssey complete jokes. No other 3D platformer innovated at the level Astro Bot did. It literally revolutionized the industry as far as platformers go
Mario Odyssey is still peak video game. You picked the wrong game here to make a comparison with Astro Bot.
@@CheckmateStallioN bro relax. it's very good. but revolutionized the industry? in what way??
@@CheckmateStallioN LMAO
@@CheckmateStallioNGalaxy is still way better than it in basically all points and that’s a game from 2007 lol. Gtfo
played the game from start to finish undocked at 60fps with a big overclock and it was perfection
I'm thankful I can enjoy a game even if it has bad frame rates
Same here. I'm pretty much immune to frame dips. I only really notice it if it goes lower than 15 FPS.
This game is excessive with it
@@rendelldrawExactly! I don't get it when people complain about it, it doesn't bother me at all.
I really hope "A Link to the Past" will get a remake in this style as well eventually 🙏
Why can't we just lock at 30 :(
because i bet it will run on switch 2 at 60fps
That would go against Nintendo rules of showing game engine stuff to the user
This is a switch 2 game. Unlocking the frame rate now saves them time
Because of crybabies
@@theanimerapper6351Nah legends of Zelda echo of wisdom is still a switch game.
John's the best. Love his enthusiasm for traditional style video games.
Definitely waiting for Switch 2 to play this. Too bad, I hoped it’d be like the Link’s Awakening remake which wasn’t too bad.
Really? That was infuriating to play, especially in handheld.
This is a case where it's WAY better in handheld mode. I had serious issues with the frame drops on my big TV but on the small screen it isn't as noticeable. Also the surround sound isn't great on it and the graphics are pretty simple and work well shrunk down so there's not that big a loss playing it handheld.
Super disappointing... Just lock the game at 30fps wtf
Just make it an option, ffs!
For the homebrew users there: OC the Ram to 1882 and Cpu 1700 and it will run smoothly
jesus christ that framerate is awful. if it's gonna run that bad just lock it to 30
I noticed the framerate issues in Link’s Awakening but it never bothered me. I almost exclusively played it in handheld so I don’t know if that helped to hide it somewhat. I’ve not played Echoes yet but I’m hoping the issues don’t bother me as well. I’ll be playing it mostly on the big screen with my daughters so I hope that doesn’t make it more noticeable.
The performance looks really rough…
I hope we get a Plucky Squire video!!
Absolutely brilliant game. It warms my heart to see it being received so well by the general public.
I bet it is, but why is everyone bitching bout it
Well at least the vocal minority
6:35
No, it does NOT beg the question. Look up what that phrase means, John.
@@dorian6021 Actually, what I said was "look it up," which is not useless. Googling something (which I recommend you do with the word "literally") is often a great way to educate yourself.
But since I know you have difficulty figuring out how the internet works, I'll help you out. It means circular reasoning. For example: The Bible is the word of God, and we know that because the Bible says so, and we can believe the Bible because it was written by God. That's circular reasoning.
@@dorian6021Only a VERY biased search attempt would yield that (false) definition and not the real one. It shows up in a few places now to reflect the vast number of people who misuse it, but that doesn't make it correct.
@@dorian6021 The word "question" in the phrase "begs the question" is not at all related to our modern usage of the word. It's a very old phrase. It translates to something like "assumes the conclusion."
@@dorian6021 I have been posting links, but apparently comments with links in them get automatically removed without even informing me.
From the website with the word vocabulary followed by a period followed by the word com: In rhetoric, to beg the question is to make an argument that assumes the truth of its conclusion, rather than proving it. When you say, "My dog's the best dog because he's the greatest," you beg the question.
Begging the question is also known as "circular reasoning," because in order for your argument to be true, the conclusion has to be true. In informal, everyday use, beg the question means "to raise a fairly obvious but still unanswered question." If your neighbor got hit by lightning on the roof of their house, it would beg the question: what were they doing on the roof in a thunderstorm? Though it's best avoided in formal contexts, this usage is the more common one.
If you don't have tunnel vision, you'll find that your Oxford dictionary also has the correct meaning of the phrase listed alongside the wrong one.
@@dorian6021I did name my source. Like I said, RUclips deleted my comment when it detected a URL and I didn't even know it.
The fact this lags more than Skyward Sword HD is saying something.
Most games lag more than Skyward Sword considering it's a solid 60 fps 99.9% of the time. Digital foundry only managed to see frame drops in one specific boss battle. Also a hd version of a wii game should be expected to perform better than a modern game no? So the fact this lags more than Skyward Sword HD is not saying much at all. Even so I hated the sudden framdrops in Link's Awakening Remake and won't be buying this until I see it running at a solid 60 fps on Switch 2.
what are you talking about, SSHD runs an overall stable 60fps
The fact this comment got so many likes shows that DF got a lot of braindead AI viewers
Skyward Sword on Switch is basically a locked 60fps, are you just making stuff up?
Graphics are already good enough. I hope Nintendo just locks everything at 60fps on Switch 2.
We need a Link Between Worlds Switch remaster and a Link to the Past Switch remake.
Agreed twice in a row.
Keep dreaming
I love the game... On my PC. I bought it anyway but will be playing again on switch 2.
The PS5 pro preorder goes live today too. Double purchases for me today
I’m in the Sony queue. Good luck!
Lol right.
Got my PS5 Pro order in and received my Zelda copy too. Successful day. Hope you got your PS5 Pro, too, gentlemen 💪
@@FelixS. Congrats!
No such luck for me. I added to cart and clicked Place Order, no dice. Just gonna have to wait.
@@RealJeffTidwell Oh seriously?! That sucks, buddy :( didn’t expect this console will be that hard to get again. Hope you will get yours soon ✊🏼
Remember Zelda Ocarina of Time? What framerate did that run at? And we still loved it. Many still consider it one of the best videogames ever made.
OOT? LOL I raise you a Turok 2? haha frames were teens/single digits without the memory expansion for N64. Hell the game would almost freeze when you used certain weapons. Kids these days don't know what bad framerates are. Starfox SNES? A fucking slide show... Most N64 games were capped at 20fps and no one cared, FF7 considered one of the greatest games of all time had 15fps battles, and everyone thought it was amazing. Movies are 24fps... imo they should have capped this game at 24fps then it would be a total non issue. Again it's not low framerate people notice it's jumps up and down, nintendo needs to just release a patch it's a super easy fix. 60FPS is NOT needed for any RPG/Adventure game, period, not needed.
Kinda disappointed tbh. A locked 30 would be nice. I’m gonna pick up the game today anyway and see how I like it on the switch, but if the frame rates too much I might dump it and try it on Yuzu/Ryujinx and see if I have any better luck
been playing echoes of wisdom for about 4 days at 60fps on ryujinx
@@DarkSoulsFan12345 My experience is that Ryujinx isnt the best emulator for this game. Suyu works way better.
@@struissie9886 in which aspect? specifically. why would you expect me to take you at face value if you don't even back up your claims?
@@DarkSoulsFan12345 In Suyu you can setup your performance to unlimited speed. In Ryujinx that isn’t possible. So this gaves you a smoother gameplay. However I experienced an issue a hour ago in the still world. The audio us very loud there. This isn’t the case on Ryujinx.
@@struissie9886 so then what you said is incorrect and ill informed + not only that but you reviewed the two in comparison and came to a 'conclusion' without being sure about what you're talking about.
next time think before you speak.
The performance is 1 reason why I emulate. There is a mod to take out the unstable framerate parts and the edge of screen blur. Thank goodness Ryujinx could get the EoW optimization done before they were taken out. RIP switch emulation.
It's a shame that despite having both the games on switch, the only way to actually play them without a headache is through emulation.
Just started playing earlier today (haven't watched the video yet) and I was worried when I saw all the drops when you first get to Hyrule Castle village. I winced a bit knowing that this video was already out - but, so far so good aside from that brutal opening to the game.
Yeah, those framerate drops are a serious issue, at least for me. I'm dying for the new hardware 😩
I consider it mandatory at this point to have an overclocked Switch. The newest version of EOS gives you a ton of adjustment compared to the old sys-clk. I've got my Erista's RAM up to about 2100 MHz with tightened timings, undervolted CPU and GPU to run higher frequencies in handheld, and it just chews through games without issue. The best part: thanks to the udnervolt, I get better battery life at the same time.
you absolutely do not get better battery life on the OG switch running everything overclocked.
I hope there’s a patch
There is, its called Switch 2
lol
From nintendo? Lol GL with that
They didn't patch the Link's Awakening remake and they didn't fix whatever underlying issues there are in the new game. There's not going to be a patch. There's only going to be better hardware.
@unvergebeneid yeah they did an overclock test with links awakening that fixed the drops in that one looks like it'll have to be that way here too
I have a gen 1 switch and have faced no issues over 3 days of gameplay.
Why can't you just lock the framerate at 30 fps? 30 fps is fine... a locked 30 fps is much better than a shitty 60 fps.
omg how is Link’s Awakening on Switch already FIVE years old😱 Time really flies
Its sad that Switch modders and switch emulation enthusiasts are going to be playing this game at 60fps, while Switch owners aren't even getting a locked frame-rate or a full HD experience.
Thaaaaaaanks Nintendo... 😬
its not sad when most consumers who buy those games dont care about this otherwise the games wouldnt keep selling so well 8 years later.
@ausgod538 (edited because I'm an @ss) I read that comment a lot more differently. But yeah, I agree with the sentiment that they can enjoy it, power to them. But they can't call it the definitive way to play.
@@KhalidTheSequel I'm agreeing with you I'm merely explaining why it happens
I was going to get this after work today but learning about the frame rate has spoiled my appetite. I’ll grab this on sale
I’ll wait until the Switch 2 comes out. I’m sure it will be flawless on the new hardware. What a shame.
Cool that this is based around A Link to the Past, my first Zelda back around when it released. But with that performance I’ll wait till the Switch 2 to pick this up.
Thank God for emulatiors which btw runs the game perfectly smooth.
Yeah Ryujinx seems to have some occasions where it drops but it's pretty much 60 locked.
Straight to jail
I have zero idea as to how to get one running. Specifically, on my phone.
Also, I have zero knowledge of where I can acquire archival copies of games like this.
Any pointers?
Emulators stutter all the time due to shader recompilation. Effectively run much worse, even if the average FPS appears higher.
I wish they used loading zones outdoors like the old Zeldas. I feel like they could have optimized the performance a lot more that way
Just buy this on Switch 2.
Still sporting the fake tilt-shift effect at the bottom of the screen... And I reckon there is still no option to just disable the blur...
That performance is almost a deal breaker, we really need the Switch 2.
You know this problem will still exist when Nintendo stars making next gen games right?
Apparently from what I read online, a fix to fps might be to install it on internal storage instead of SD card
I respect DF so much but I'm tired of hearing that this game's absolute shit performance (and Link's Awakening too) is Switch's fault, not the developers. Disappointing as now everyone on the internet will parrot this nonsense. There are far more ambitious and demanding games on Switch that run great.
If you can't make it run great knowing full well what the hardware is, make it different.
My guy, how the hell do you know it's the devs? You can absolutely blame the switch because it's a mobile chip from 2015. Is it the devs' fault that TotK drops fps whenever it wants to? From what I've played of Echoes, it is definitely a more complex game than Link's Awakening, the world is more detailed, a lot more npcs and objects you can spawn on the screen at once, horse mechanics and improvements to character models.
Switch can run an open world game Red Dead Redeption at 1080p30fps and Breath of the Wild at 900p 30fps with little dips in some areas. Microsoft optimized Ori Will of WIsps, a game that initially struggled on Xbox One X, until it ran at 900p60fps on Switch!
Nintendo could and should make this simple top-down 3D game run at 1080p60fps.
@@ChicanerDiMarty "Is it the devs' fault that TotK drops fps whenever it wants to?"
The devs could have done more in that game. Maybe they couldn't make it run 100% perfect, but if they optimized or reduced some taxing effects like the Ultrahand effect the slow downs would be less frequent.
Also, I don't know why Nintendo didn't make available a RAM-boost option for handheld mode, similar to the 460mhz GPU boost some games use in handheld. It would help bandwidth starved games SO MUCH
It's both the hardware's and dev' s fault.
The game seems great except the frame rate. Would perhaps a different engine than UE4 result in a smoother streaming of the game world?
yikes. even just watching the opening of the video those constant frame rate drops look intolerable
Thank you John
It's very surprising that the developer Grezzo released it like this.
Are you sure Grezzo made it? Have you got to the credits yet?
Wish they would just offer a 30 fps lock option, which would let me enjoy it now and still preserve the ability to unlock it up to 60 on Switch 2 (theoretically).
If I can tolerate slowdown in Earthbound, I can tolerate some framerate issues in this game.