What makes the Poe even worse is that its flames are as much of a hazard to you as it is to your enemies, so its really easy for the poe to be more of a threat to the player than it is to the enemy.
@@greencoconutcurry that's the real reason the Poe is so bad. You can't consistently bind move this echo to attack precisely even with a height setup because it actually can drop flames into itself. So trying to make it work often gets it to kill itself.
I spent WAY too much time under the well trying to figure out a solution with the bear because of the lady’s comment about her grandpa… but no pay off. Just lack luster.
@@smilesfordays Yeah exactly! Even the ONE puzzle with Ghinis in the game, where you also actually find the teddy bear, doesn't involve the teddy bear 😅
lol Sign is ironically the most broken item in speedrunning community right now. From a casual standpoint it’s literally the single worst in the game but now it’s being used to wrong warp to the final area right away. I really like the signs inclusion regardless; it’s charming and goofy in certain spots
It's amazing how the level 1 Ghini is easily one of the best echoes in the game, while the level 2 is so bad. It's just a bigger, clunkier, more expensive version of the level 1.
Exactly what I used them for- targeting the switch made them go for it immediately and there were several occasions where I just slipped the intended puzzle altogether this way
Yeah, I wish they had some level of aggression instead of just fleeing, would've made them useful for torch puzzles, just lock on and it flies through the wall and lights it.
The problem is the trampoline costs the same but gives you extra height while the stone has the same dimensions but deals more damage when thrown. So it's not really good for anything. It's an early echo so it makes sense to replace it, but it's just not really better in any situation than another echo would be.
@@patrickpablo217 Agreed here, i think they should have made it so that water blocks can only be placed over already existing water so that it wasnt so OP
i was on board but will NOT stand for this crab slander. the fact that it attacks in one direction is its best feature. it essentially acts like a melee attack. i beat ganon by spamming him with hundreds of crabs
Ghini are interesting because they are immune to the screams of the Redead, which allows them to attack continuously while all others, including Zelda, are paralyzed. Gibdo is really interesting in closed places or areas seen from the side because they serve as walls that push the enemy into a corner before killing them. And the Redead are really interesting thanks to their screams that paralyze almost everything : you can use them to control the crowds to get yourself to safety or to set up a trap with for example a plant to make them devour and easily kill in one shot enemies particularly fast. So Gibdo lvl2 is really interesting because it combines these two interesting features. Poe is a good tank when he is able to aggro the enemies : it moves away from your position and through its flames, inflict damage on them in the passage. But the problem is that it must succeed to aggro and this is not especially easy and if you are on its path, its flames inflict heavy damage or even kill you a blow if you play in hero mode. And the beetle mound is really understimated! I mean yes, the beetle are slow and weak but ismply take one and throw it at an enemy so they can attack first. He goes tostunlock it to infinity, time that his two allies join him to slowly but surely devour all their enemies. Not only are they incredible but they offer a slow, painful and cruel death to all their enemies. Dragonfly should be in the top of the ranking. They are so slow to attack that they miss almost all their attacks. Even a zol is more effective than these things.
Disagree on the Rope. I found spawning lots of them to be immensely useful, keeping enemies confused and busy and eventually dead. They're fast attackers, just like the Lynel and Lizalfos.
Sorry but the crabs were my most used echo by far. It's the only echo that can attack instantly and is super spammable, if I ever needed instant damaged they were the go to. Especially in the 2d underwater sections
The sand crab was definitely one of my most used echoes for the first half of the game. I always liked creating an endless army of them. I eventually replaced it with the pathblade echo but they still were very helpful echo in the game
I feel it's a bit unfair to include the Zol or the table as those are basically mandatory in early parts of the game (albeit I guess the Zol can be completely skipped if you just beeline for the rock echo to kill your first actually useful enemy but I bet a fair few of us didn't do that). I think my picks for echoes to replace them that I've had literally zero use for that you haven't mentioned are Tektites (which is odd as they're an annoying AF enemy) and the Gerudo and Hyrule castle pots (are they any different from the base pot?).
Zol and table are amazing in terms of a sense of progression, when you're skipping over everything by walking on summoned clouds and wrecking everything in sight with the lynel, don't forget to look back at when you could only do tables and zols and appreciate how much more cool stuff you can do
Rock can also be skipped, in fact in theory all you need is the table to defeat the first dungeon. (also please don't, dropping tables on shadow link takes forever to kill him, and a fire echo is eventually needed later on so just take the ignizol even if you are going for a low echo run))
@@sinteleon I've done that already, mainly because I think trying to beat Scorchill with an Ignizol would be more painful and seeing the sword Icon without the trirod Icon is kinda cool. I was able to get lucky and basically stun lock him with the tables, so it ended up only taking me like 3-4 tries.
I'd like to mention an exception to what you said ( 9:38 ) - I fed the cat on the tree an echoed grilled fish, and it accepted it just fine, I think it might just be that kid that wants his mom's cooking :)
redead is a partner echo. pair it with one of the fighter echoes and they'll have an easy time attacking enemies without getting hit (much), mostly in the first half of the game. same for ribbitune which you didn't mentione pairs with electric enemies (though you did state its uses in some puzzles). i made so much use of ribbitune in the last 3rd of the game, especially against the Faron boss -- so strong when paired with the electric zol-thing that outputs rapid shocks. i'm surprised you didn't get use out of the hoarder. it's not super strong, but moves and attacks quite rapidly, doing good dps for its low cost. plus it gets in reeaaaaal close to the point where certain enemies struggle to actually hit it.
Yeah Redead is pretty nice to actually enable other attacks to hit more accurately. The Redead doesn't have to even be active once the scream comes out, you can just swap it immediately for a higher cost monster, swap that to Redead, rinse and repeat. Main downside is the scream doesn't work on everything.
I did find Gibdos useful in some situations where you summon it to freeze enemies in place while a superior echo enemy attacks your enemies. The Gibdo essentially makes it easier for other better echos.
Tables, carrots, and ghinis are some of the most used and fundamental echoes in the game. Table is the basic 1x1 step echo that only really gets outclassed by the trampoline. Carrots are how you summon your horse and there are plenty of switches that are designed to be triggered with the ghini's wall phase (the switches even look like a ghini).
@@dani007a Tables become outclassed as soon as you get the bed for most of the time (table is only useful if you don't have space to place a bed). And like you said, Trampoline is better and you also get it early. I didn't find the Horse particularly useful, so I didn't use Carrot much. The mobility on the Horse wasn't great (hard to change directions), and moving faster with it wasn't needed since teleporting is faster. I only recall one switch in an optional cave where Ghini was required. All other switches you can use lots of different things. I wouldn't put Ghini on my bottom 10 echoes list, but I admit I didn't use it much. Looking at all the echoes, here's my list of most useless echoes: -Hyrule Castle Pot and Gerudo Pot (no different from regular Pots) -Sign (doesn't do much for you) -Gibdo (moves and attacks too slowly) -Ribbitune (doesn't seem to do anything? Maybe just aggros enemies but the various foods are better at that) -Needlefly (hard to hit anything with its attack) -Beakon (doesn't attack and costs a lot of triangles) -Giant Goponga Flower (attacks too slowly, stuck in place, costs too many triangles) -Beetle and Beetle Mound (too weak of an enemy and the mound doesn't spawn them fast enough to keep distracting enemies) -Poe (never found a good use for it. It's not good at fighting and it's a bad source of fire) -Zol (probably weakest enemy in the game)
I like this list because I absolutely disagree with a lot of it! Especially when it comes to the Redead: it's one of my favourite echoes, as it can instakill anything flying over pits, it's useful when dealing with flying/fast moving enemies, and lets you finish anything off quickly when you use him with the Link-power. Really cool echo!
Others have defended the Ghini, but I feel the need to defend the Poe too. 1. It's flame drop works regardless of it's hight so if you just spawn it abive the enemies attack range it's invincible. 2. It can go through walls making it able to attack enemies who can't even see you. 3. If you use bind you can hold enemies in the flames for extra damage. 4. The Poe takes very little damage, meaning it's a good choice to distract enemies while you take a nap. They're far from anywhere near as bad as you made out IMO.
@@scragar I tried using the Poe with all of those things in mind. Setting up height on demand for one can take quite a bit of time which by itself is workable, but probably the most egregious weakness of this Echo is it can hurt itself with the fire drop when moving it around with bind. Like the flame as it's falling basically goes inside the Poe and hits it as it would normally be retreating. Binding enemies to move them into the flame can be unpredictable without a lot of flat open space. At that rate I'd rather let them get whacked by a Moblin while they can't move. All of those factors make it very difficult to attack precisely with this echo when it either kills itself or forces you to bind move enemies towards it which can also be complicated.
I used the table a lot during the end game. For the twin switches I put the tables on the switch then set the rock or other room block on them and call back the tables, puzzle solved. I also used the armos for a similar puzzle later on. The ropes were my go to monster for a while. I could continually summon them. They took down the Lynel pretty quickly for me.
I find redeads were actually really useful in small closed rooms. The distance was small enough that the speed wasn’t too much of a detriment, and the scream was useful for stunning large groups of enemies so you don’t get overwhelmed. I found that if you had enough energy for tri, they worked well in tandem with wolfos
The Gibdo 2 does have one very useful use, it’s immune to redead screams so you can send one out to attack hoards of redead and it will dispatch them easily. The Beakon would probably be more useful if it only cost 1 triangle, as it is it eats most of your summoning power and isn’t particularly useful. The thing that makes the food echoes really annoying is a number of times the echoes you send out will also preferentially attack the food instead of the foes you were distracting.
Beetle mound literally saved me because I couldn’t for The life of me figure out how to stand on two switches at once (The one you need to activate at The same time). I would put one mound near one of the switches, sometimes create a route for them out of the beds and then RUN for the other switch. Worked everytime!
Interesting. I used two tables, one on each switch, and used bind to put a nearby boulder or ice block on top before calling my echoes back making them fall to the grund at the same time
@@theMagos I'm embarrassed to say as a grown adult that was the ONLY part of the entire game I had to google what to do. I saw that the switches light up when you push them, and there are two in the first area you encounter them. Didn't even occur to me they had to be pushed simultaneously.
Couldnt disagree more with the awesome ghinji ghosts, ive used the lvl 2 one all the time, it can easily chesse alot of the dungeon puzzles where you have to hit something off screen and its just broken in 2d areas since the walls arent an issue for them
@@Copycat_YT haha i did have them MISS an immobile switch once with their licking, and just decided afterwards that i'd rather solve stuff in a more involve way, anyway.
I also agree. Ghini is should not be in this list. Targeting a switch will have them chase after it. And the carrot’s purpose is to summon your horse. Not distract enemies.
Hard disagree on the Rope. It's a helpful way to deal damage early game. It moves in a committed direction where a monster is standing so it ends up being a free hit for a bound or the monster busy attacking another echo at the cost of one point
@@micahrobbins8353 this is only "good" if you have a lot of flat open space. It can get extremely complicated to chase a retreating Poe when there's obstacles or multiple moving enemies, and the worst part is even if you spawn the Poe with a height advantage, bind moving the Poe is still prone to getting it to commit suicide when it can actually drop the flames into its own body.
@@patrickpablo217 if I'm going to spawn multiple of a high level creature just so I can bind move it for offense, I would rather just whack my enemies with a Moblin or Darknut than try to play 3D Chess and dodgeball simultaneously with a Poe. The only real section where I could see the Poe not being a tactical liability is the 2nd Smog boss fight which happens in a 2D area with lots of climbable walls but literally nowhere else is it practical.
When I look back on this game, I ironically think the lyonel was the worst echo. It was just sooo good in nearly every combat that I just didn't use or try anything else
I think some of the "bad echoes" can be made better if you utilize grabbing your target to prevent it from getting away. Like holding something in place so the big ghosts can attack it, or holding something and moving it onto the flames that the Poe drops. I've found some of the slower echoes can be really powerful if you take an active role in grabbing and positioning enemies during the fight.
The only time I found the Poe useful was against the thundercloud boss, because he moved in a set path and I could lay down flames to damage him. Otherwise I never used it
@@143garrett143 yeah I agree, Smog 2nd fight is literally the only place where Poe is reasonable due to it being a 2D section with lots of climbable walls. The Poe requiring so much height setup and bind move otherwise is a huge liability.
Counter-Point to the Ghinis: They make it really easy to cheese any 'hit the switch' puzzle where the switch is behind any kind of door or obstacle. In addition, they're one of the few enemies to remain fully functional in underwater 2D sections, where their ability to also phase through walls in a lot more relevant, given how frequently 2D sections use tight corridors.
how dare you slender my waddeling clawed water critter like that?? I literally beat so many bosses with this one, ganon, fish dude, the mole. granted, there are other way better spinny thingies but... its one of my first I hold dear to my heart sorry, I couldnt resist the theatrical outrage, I also hate them BUT with more nostalgia
Ghinis are meant to be used for puzzle solving, not offense. I used them in side-scrolling caves all the time or anywhere I needed to hit a switch on the other side of a wall. The ReDead I really only used once.....in the bow and arrow battle against the 3 Dark Links. Being able to stun them while they were running around the room was a huge help in keeping them in place so I could hit them (and also bought me some time to sleep in bed during battle) And the sign I also only used once but was actually VERY handy in this situation. It was in a battle early in the game and I honestly can't remember which off the top of my head. But I do recall it was a projectile based fight and so I just put up constant sign shields whenever the enemy would attack with rapid fire projectiles. And being that early in the game when your echo options are still very limited, I just used what I had to work with and it just happened to be exactly what I needed at the time.
I actually used the Beetle Mound a few times in my playthrough. It's extremely useful for pressing those two switches that you need pressed at the same time. You can easily time when the beetles are going to press on the switch.
The table is great for caves to place below yourself when you jump for a quick ascent. Better than the trampoline because it won’t fling you into enemy fire.
Echoes being able to dodge attacks in exchange for other benefits just doesn’t make sense to me. Sadly there is no cooldown between summoning them so whenever an echoes dies you can just respawn it immediately. Most of the time that even better so you can reposition it to be more effective.
To be fair to the hoarder and the ghini, they get a bit more use outside of combat. There are a few puzzles you can just skip by sending a ghini to hit a switch that's meant to just open a way back to the entrance. I also found the hoarder to be better at illuminating dark areas than fire echoes, plus there's no chance of them setting you on fire. It's not much, but it's something.
Statue is great, can't believe it gets an honorable mention as bad. It floats in lava just like a lava rock allowing you to cross all lava in the game, and only costs 1. It blocks all the attacks from the mole boss and stuns him too, helpful in the boss rushes.
The problem with the Poe is the enemy still prefers to target Zelda rather than the Poe, which makes its fire traps useless. If attacking the Poe was prioritized, it would be a more effective echo.
I am a personal Redead defender. My recommendation: Stunning Scream. Then Bind the stunned enemy and pull them toward the Redead. This is super effective against most enemies, since they tend to do big damage when they actually hit the opponent.
1:44 The Ghini actually has a use against Bemos, though the level 1 was better. They’re much more useful in 2D sections 4:20 the worst part about the Poe is that it’s fire lingers for a while, AND that it hurts you 7:58 unlike the bed, you can push tables, to let you get a staircase in a small area, using how the game snaps to a grid system. To be fair, this echo gets outmatched by the trampoline, but given it’s a requirement, being part of the tutorial, it gets a bye
The drippitune is really useful in combination with an electric echo, since rain makes the shock radius significantly larger, and it can create rain even indoors. The Ghini sucks for combat, but is great for hitting switches in 2D areas. And the speed running community will likely hard disagree with you about the sign, since it's the echo that allows for the wrong warp shenanigans that make beating the game in half an hour possible. But in normal game play, it's totally worthless.
I actually liked using the Ghini on my first playthrough. Especially for switches, water fights or when there were walls inbetween Zelda and whatever I wanted to interact with
Lvl 2 ghini is okay for the zora rift boss, because if it hits it can destroy all the back things and allow you to attack it while vulnerable with better echoes.
The dripitune can be used to amplify your electric enemies range! And if you bind some meat in front of a bird it’ll fly infinitely in that direction and u can hitch a ride
You can do more with the table if you use pushing to stack them. While that still leaves them as one of the worst still being exclusively worse, in terms of uses, then both beds and trampolines, the table is the only mandatory one and the only one you need in order to beat the first temple. You can even do the same trick with the bed and tornando, it just harder to pull off.
Disagree with the Leever honorable mention. They're so good! They're decently tanky, you can spawn six of them at a time at most, and you can completely overwhelm your enemies in seconds because they will gang up on them. What's also fun to do is to bind to an enemy, carry them on top of the Leever gang and drop them in. Many enemies will be finished in no time. Truly love the Leevers lol
I really like the redead. I usually don't use them to attack but alongside anotber echo, their scream will prevent the monster from attacking /moving too much
Lol, the sign is the one echo that allows you to complete the game unter 40 Minutes! Of course, not useful for everybody, but the one with nearly unlimited potential...
I really like the Goponga flower. I like the lvl 1 Ghini because there are things is not afraid of. The ReDead is useful to stun enemies while another echo deals damage. I don't know wtf the needlefly does, that's the worst. The rope is amazing, ended up being my choice for fighting Ganon in the castle
Needleflies are not only bad echoes, they are probably the worst enemies. They are super slow to attack. I don't think a single one of them touched me a single time in the overworld. The only time they did was in 2D parts where everything was very packed together.
Ok so the sign and carrot are good. Carrot you can summon your horse Sign you can use to perform many glitches including wrong warp and infinite rupees.
I would have Redeads higher. For standalone offense they suck, but they pair great with other echoes to hold down enemies that are more slippery while your faster soldiers close in on them.
Can't you use Redead as support to stun enemies while the other echoes attack? Also, signs are the most powerful echo in the game. You can use it to skip straight to the end of the game, and you can even use it to play as Link instead of Zelda.
Ghini is great for cheesing switch puzzles. Target a switch anywhere and they can fly right to it (might still take them like 3 tries to hit it, but still)
For the honorable mentions, I will say that the Armos is good for pressing out of reach buttons, as well as for that puzzle where you have to activate one of the two switches you have to press at the same time. Not much else after that, unfortunately. However, the rest of the list is pretty spot on. I will say the Poe is the biggest disappointment for me as I never got them to successfully attack any enemies for me.
Rope is ok for when you find it: it’s decent for spamming attack in the early game. It’s fast, cheap, and goes straight, so locking onto a stronger enemy (for early game; like moblins and boarblins n such) and then spamming Ropes can take them down fast. Pretty much as soon as I get anything remotely stronger than Ropes I’ve already left the early game and don’t use them anymore; they’ve served their purpose.
The carrot isn’t useless as you use it to summon your horse. As for the #1 worst echo, it should have been the ball because you only use it once in the entire game and that’s to get to the Deku tree.
What makes the Poe even worse is that its flames are as much of a hazard to you as it is to your enemies, so its really easy for the poe to be more of a threat to the player than it is to the enemy.
I’ve had my Poe set itself on fire 😂
But I did like the miniboss against it in the gerudo Dungeon. I only used Stones and Pots
@@greencoconutcurry that's the real reason the Poe is so bad. You can't consistently bind move this echo to attack precisely even with a height setup because it actually can drop flames into itself. So trying to make it work often gets it to kill itself.
i find it works better to bind the enemies and drag them into the fires rather than drag the poe around
What about the teddy bear? It's even worse than the food echoes since it only attracts Ghinis, which you never need to do, in no situation imaginable
Im wagering theres gonna be a dlc released just after or on halloween it was made for, I hope haha
I spent WAY too much time under the well trying to figure out a solution with the bear because of the lady’s comment about her grandpa… but no pay off. Just lack luster.
food echos are great … bind a bird and lift up 1 meat and you can fly over the whole map
@@smilesfordays Yeah exactly! Even the ONE puzzle with Ghinis in the game, where you also actually find the teddy bear, doesn't involve the teddy bear 😅
The teddy bear gives you a mental health boost. An indispensable function.
lol Sign is ironically the most broken item in speedrunning community right now. From a casual standpoint it’s literally the single worst in the game but now it’s being used to wrong warp to the final area right away. I really like the signs inclusion regardless; it’s charming and goofy in certain spots
It is also used for a (almost) infinite money glitch
@@Stray_Alec the crows are already unlimited money
Strongly disagree on Ghini 😂 it can pass through walls and doors. I used it all the times to activate distanced switches or switches behind doors :)
That’s like it’s only use. It’s fighting abilities are not good at all
@@matthewwilliams8244no duh it’s used for puzzles and not attacking
I used it on the water boss to lick all it's bulbs pretty frequently
It's amazing how the level 1 Ghini is easily one of the best echoes in the game, while the level 2 is so bad. It's just a bigger, clunkier, more expensive version of the level 1.
Exactly what I used them for- targeting the switch made them go for it immediately and there were several occasions where I just slipped the intended puzzle altogether this way
The poe was one of the biggest let downs :C Was so excited when I learned Poe and then used it in the next room and I was like... breh
Yeah, I wish they had some level of aggression instead of just fleeing, would've made them useful for torch puzzles, just lock on and it flies through the wall and lights it.
Used a poe and it ended up attacking Zelda
THE CARROT?! It’s only use is for summoning ur horse which is good on its own.
Or for people like me who skipped the carrot couldn't figure out how to summon the horse
@@zom8680I got to the carrot field but didn’t have my horse so couldn’t get the echo yet
I agree with the carrot being the worse, for the reason that i took me ages finding the last echo only to discover it's this fuckin vegetable
@@xenobazilla yeah its eaten by the horse after you first see it. So you need to go back and pull the carrot out again which is really unintuitive.
but it's just so bad in combat
This table slander is outrageous. For 2D platforming areas it saves space. I still can see why you’d say it’s bad but I don’t think it’s top 10.
The problem is the trampoline costs the same but gives you extra height while the stone has the same dimensions but deals more damage when thrown.
So it's not really good for anything. It's an early echo so it makes sense to replace it, but it's just not really better in any situation than another echo would be.
Just use water.
@@joefisher3950Was just ab to comment this, i think the water block is probably the best echo in the game
the water block is so good it makes almost all the other echoes useless (which imo is not that fun)
@@patrickpablo217 Agreed here, i think they should have made it so that water blocks can only be placed over already existing water so that it wasnt so OP
i was on board but will NOT stand for this crab slander. the fact that it attacks in one direction is its best feature. it essentially acts like a melee attack. i beat ganon by spamming him with hundreds of crabs
I used Sea Urchins for that
Ghini are interesting because they are immune to the screams of the Redead, which allows them to attack continuously while all others, including Zelda, are paralyzed.
Gibdo is really interesting in closed places or areas seen from the side because they serve as walls that push the enemy into a corner before killing them. And the Redead are really interesting thanks to their screams that paralyze almost everything : you can use them to control the crowds to get yourself to safety or to set up a trap with for example a plant to make them devour and easily kill in one shot enemies particularly fast. So Gibdo lvl2 is really interesting because it combines these two interesting features.
Poe is a good tank when he is able to aggro the enemies : it moves away from your position and through its flames, inflict damage on them in the passage. But the problem is that it must succeed to aggro and this is not especially easy and if you are on its path, its flames inflict heavy damage or even kill you a blow if you play in hero mode.
And the beetle mound is really understimated! I mean yes, the beetle are slow and weak but ismply take one and throw it at an enemy so they can attack first. He goes tostunlock it to infinity, time that his two allies join him to slowly but surely devour all their enemies. Not only are they incredible but they offer a slow, painful and cruel death to all their enemies.
Dragonfly should be in the top of the ranking. They are so slow to attack that they miss almost all their attacks. Even a zol is more effective than these things.
beetle mound i found as a decent support echo to a stronger fighter. someone to do extra damage, take attention away, and disrupt enemy attacks.
Disagree on the Rope. I found spawning lots of them to be immensely useful, keeping enemies confused and busy and eventually dead. They're fast attackers, just like the Lynel and Lizalfos.
Oh yeah. Those mosquito looking bugs are not useful at all. THEY CANT HIT ANYTHING!
But even more disappointing is the lack of Hoodless Zelda.
Sorry but the crabs were my most used echo by far.
It's the only echo that can attack instantly and is super spammable, if I ever needed instant damaged they were the go to. Especially in the 2d underwater sections
i noticed crabs were basically invincible to birds.
I prefer sea urchins for this purpose though, since they're also good for attacking from above
Crab blaster rules in 2d or as long as you can stand sideways to target.
Hard agree. Crabs are amazing. They are a spammable range attack.
The sand crab was definitely one of my most used echoes for the first half of the game. I always liked creating an endless army of them. I eventually replaced it with the pathblade echo but they still were very helpful echo in the game
I feel it's a bit unfair to include the Zol or the table as those are basically mandatory in early parts of the game (albeit I guess the Zol can be completely skipped if you just beeline for the rock echo to kill your first actually useful enemy but I bet a fair few of us didn't do that).
I think my picks for echoes to replace them that I've had literally zero use for that you haven't mentioned are Tektites (which is odd as they're an annoying AF enemy) and the Gerudo and Hyrule castle pots (are they any different from the base pot?).
Zol and table are amazing in terms of a sense of progression, when you're skipping over everything by walking on summoned clouds and wrecking everything in sight with the lynel, don't forget to look back at when you could only do tables and zols and appreciate how much more cool stuff you can do
Rock can also be skipped, in fact in theory all you need is the table to defeat the first dungeon. (also please don't, dropping tables on shadow link takes forever to kill him, and a fire echo is eventually needed later on so just take the ignizol even if you are going for a low echo run))
@@sinteleon I've done that already, mainly because I think trying to beat Scorchill with an Ignizol would be more painful and seeing the sword Icon without the trirod Icon is kinda cool. I was able to get lucky and basically stun lock him with the tables, so it ended up only taking me like 3-4 tries.
I'd like to mention an exception to what you said ( 9:38 ) - I fed the cat on the tree an echoed grilled fish, and it accepted it just fine, I think it might just be that kid that wants his mom's cooking :)
Armos is only useless in combat. Its real use is in dungeon puzzles.
For that reason, I don’t believe it belongs on this list.
redead is a partner echo. pair it with one of the fighter echoes and they'll have an easy time attacking enemies without getting hit (much), mostly in the first half of the game. same for ribbitune which you didn't mentione pairs with electric enemies (though you did state its uses in some puzzles). i made so much use of ribbitune in the last 3rd of the game, especially against the Faron boss -- so strong when paired with the electric zol-thing that outputs rapid shocks.
i'm surprised you didn't get use out of the hoarder. it's not super strong, but moves and attacks quite rapidly, doing good dps for its low cost. plus it gets in reeaaaaal close to the point where certain enemies struggle to actually hit it.
Yeah Redead is pretty nice to actually enable other attacks to hit more accurately. The Redead doesn't have to even be active once the scream comes out, you can just swap it immediately for a higher cost monster, swap that to Redead, rinse and repeat. Main downside is the scream doesn't work on everything.
@@A2ZOMG speaking of, it's also a nice attacker in the gerudo desert and temple since it doesn't flinch against enemy redeads.
I did find Gibdos useful in some situations where you summon it to freeze enemies in place while a superior echo enemy attacks your enemies. The Gibdo essentially makes it easier for other better echos.
Pretty awesome to see the comments showing players using most of these echos to some extent.
I’m learning lots of play styles that I had never considered and would like to try out!
Tables, carrots, and ghinis are some of the most used and fundamental echoes in the game. Table is the basic 1x1 step echo that only really gets outclassed by the trampoline. Carrots are how you summon your horse and there are plenty of switches that are designed to be triggered with the ghini's wall phase (the switches even look like a ghini).
@@dani007a
Tables become outclassed as soon as you get the bed for most of the time (table is only useful if you don't have space to place a bed). And like you said, Trampoline is better and you also get it early.
I didn't find the Horse particularly useful, so I didn't use Carrot much. The mobility on the Horse wasn't great (hard to change directions), and moving faster with it wasn't needed since teleporting is faster.
I only recall one switch in an optional cave where Ghini was required. All other switches you can use lots of different things. I wouldn't put Ghini on my bottom 10 echoes list, but I admit I didn't use it much.
Looking at all the echoes, here's my list of most useless echoes:
-Hyrule Castle Pot and Gerudo Pot (no different from regular Pots)
-Sign (doesn't do much for you)
-Gibdo (moves and attacks too slowly)
-Ribbitune (doesn't seem to do anything? Maybe just aggros enemies but the various foods are better at that)
-Needlefly (hard to hit anything with its attack)
-Beakon (doesn't attack and costs a lot of triangles)
-Giant Goponga Flower (attacks too slowly, stuck in place, costs too many triangles)
-Beetle and Beetle Mound (too weak of an enemy and the mound doesn't spawn them fast enough to keep distracting enemies)
-Poe (never found a good use for it. It's not good at fighting and it's a bad source of fire)
-Zol (probably weakest enemy in the game)
I can’t believe the crabs are on the list! They are extremely lethal if spamming
I like this list because I absolutely disagree with a lot of it!
Especially when it comes to the Redead: it's one of my favourite echoes, as it can instakill anything flying over pits, it's useful when dealing with flying/fast moving enemies, and lets you finish anything off quickly when you use him with the Link-power. Really cool echo!
Also really good against enemies with shields. And regarding the “too slow” problem, just use bind to move it in and out of the enemy’s attack range
I would say one of the worst is actually the triforce ball in eternal forest. Does nothing, but progress the story.
The ghosts are against FLYING critters, not ground critters.
Others have defended the Ghini, but I feel the need to defend the Poe too.
1. It's flame drop works regardless of it's hight so if you just spawn it abive the enemies attack range it's invincible.
2. It can go through walls making it able to attack enemies who can't even see you.
3. If you use bind you can hold enemies in the flames for extra damage.
4. The Poe takes very little damage, meaning it's a good choice to distract enemies while you take a nap.
They're far from anywhere near as bad as you made out IMO.
@@scragar I tried using the Poe with all of those things in mind. Setting up height on demand for one can take quite a bit of time which by itself is workable, but probably the most egregious weakness of this Echo is it can hurt itself with the fire drop when moving it around with bind. Like the flame as it's falling basically goes inside the Poe and hits it as it would normally be retreating.
Binding enemies to move them into the flame can be unpredictable without a lot of flat open space. At that rate I'd rather let them get whacked by a Moblin while they can't move.
All of those factors make it very difficult to attack precisely with this echo when it either kills itself or forces you to bind move enemies towards it which can also be complicated.
Of these 4 I think using it as a distraction to take a nap is the only one that makes it more useful than other echoes.
@@reaperraider999 but guess what the ribbitune does that too
@@raphaelchan7574 lmao true
I used the table a lot during the end game. For the twin switches I put the tables on the switch then set the rock or other room block on them and call back the tables, puzzle solved. I also used the armos for a similar puzzle later on.
The ropes were my go to monster for a while. I could continually summon them. They took down the Lynel pretty quickly for me.
In fairness to the statues, they are great for cover. I’ve used them against Ganon to protect myself from his flaming bats instead of dodging.
I find redeads were actually really useful in small closed rooms. The distance was small enough that the speed wasn’t too much of a detriment, and the scream was useful for stunning large groups of enemies so you don’t get overwhelmed. I found that if you had enough energy for tri, they worked well in tandem with wolfos
The Gibdo 2 does have one very useful use, it’s immune to redead screams so you can send one out to attack hoards of redead and it will dispatch them easily.
The Beakon would probably be more useful if it only cost 1 triangle, as it is it eats most of your summoning power and isn’t particularly useful.
The thing that makes the food echoes really annoying is a number of times the echoes you send out will also preferentially attack the food instead of the foes you were distracting.
Beetle mound literally saved me because I couldn’t for The life of me figure out how to stand on two switches at once (The one you need to activate at The same time). I would put one mound near one of the switches, sometimes create a route for them out of the beds and then RUN for the other switch. Worked everytime!
Interesting. I used two tables, one on each switch, and used bind to put a nearby boulder or ice block on top before calling my echoes back making them fall to the grund at the same time
I used Armos and stepped on the button just as Armos was about to (he walks back-n-forth)
@@theMagos I'm embarrassed to say as a grown adult that was the ONLY part of the entire game I had to google what to do. I saw that the switches light up when you push them, and there are two in the first area you encounter them. Didn't even occur to me they had to be pushed simultaneously.
@@theMagos I also used Armos for those
Mini-moldorm is one of my most-used offensive echoes. Don't sleep on it.
Ok but at least the sign is funny because it says stuff but the snake and cat statues are just completely useless
Couldnt disagree more with the awesome ghinji ghosts, ive used the lvl 2 one all the time, it can easily chesse alot of the dungeon puzzles where you have to hit something off screen and its just broken in 2d areas since the walls arent an issue for them
I had them in my best echoes video then where I was recording it they literally didn’t even land a single lick and I got frustrated and demoted them 😭
There could be 3 list sets, navigation, puzzle solving and combat.
@@Copycat_YT haha i did have them MISS an immobile switch once with their licking, and just decided afterwards that i'd rather solve stuff in a more involve way, anyway.
I also agree. Ghini is should not be in this list. Targeting a switch will have them chase after it. And the carrot’s purpose is to summon your horse. Not distract enemies.
You mock the sign, but speedrunners are using it to break the space-time continuum
The Ghini can Phase through walls and activate switches.i skipped whole cave's thanks zo them
They can activate switches? 😱😱
They can activate switches? 😱
Hard disagree on the Rope.
It's a helpful way to deal damage early game. It moves in a committed direction where a monster is standing so it ends up being a free hit for a bound or the monster busy attacking another echo at the cost of one point
Def fair, I got the peahat early so anything in comparison seemed bad lol
The worst echo in the game is the stuffed toy
But its cute
But then you can use it in all the ghosts fights you encounter? ALL OF THEM! Which is like, uh, one?
@@richardmahn7589Excuse me I believe it is 🧐 uhhh, wait your right. It is only one real fight against ghost. 😶
You can grab enemies with tri and put them into poe flames for a lot of damage in case anyone needed to know
@@micahrobbins8353 this is only "good" if you have a lot of flat open space. It can get extremely complicated to chase a retreating Poe when there's obstacles or multiple moving enemies, and the worst part is even if you spawn the Poe with a height advantage, bind moving the Poe is still prone to getting it to commit suicide when it can actually drop the flames into its own body.
@@A2ZOMG I haven't encountered it killing itself personally, but yep to the rest of that
can't you just spawn another one if the first one kills itself?
@@patrickpablo217 if I'm going to spawn multiple of a high level creature just so I can bind move it for offense, I would rather just whack my enemies with a Moblin or Darknut than try to play 3D Chess and dodgeball simultaneously with a Poe. The only real section where I could see the Poe not being a tactical liability is the 2nd Smog boss fight which happens in a 2D area with lots of climbable walls but literally nowhere else is it practical.
I wish Nintendo would patch this game with a “favorite echoes” UI where you can store up to 20 echoes.
Ropes were decent early game attackers, just summon a swarm of snakes to attack your enemies lol.
Redeads and gibdos(v2) did not belong on this list. Any echo can move as fast as you need just by using bind.
When I look back on this game, I ironically think the lyonel was the worst echo. It was just sooo good in nearly every combat that I just didn't use or try anything else
Ok, you all know what to do: play through using only these 15 worst echos. You can use the table to climb.
Someone never thought to push all of their problems in to lava water or holes with armos
I think some of the "bad echoes" can be made better if you utilize grabbing your target to prevent it from getting away. Like holding something in place so the big ghosts can attack it, or holding something and moving it onto the flames that the Poe drops. I've found some of the slower echoes can be really powerful if you take an active role in grabbing and positioning enemies during the fight.
The only time I found the Poe useful was against the thundercloud boss, because he moved in a set path and I could lay down flames to damage him. Otherwise I never used it
@@143garrett143 yeah I agree, Smog 2nd fight is literally the only place where Poe is reasonable due to it being a 2D section with lots of climbable walls. The Poe requiring so much height setup and bind move otherwise is a huge liability.
I actually used the sand crab a lot to have a spammable thing to throw like Mario fireballs in the 2D sections, especially underwater.
Counter-Point to the Ghinis: They make it really easy to cheese any 'hit the switch' puzzle where the switch is behind any kind of door or obstacle. In addition, they're one of the few enemies to remain fully functional in underwater 2D sections, where their ability to also phase through walls in a lot more relevant, given how frequently 2D sections use tight corridors.
how dare you slender my waddeling clawed water critter like that?? I literally beat so many bosses with this one, ganon, fish dude, the mole. granted, there are other way better spinny thingies but... its one of my first I hold dear to my heart
sorry, I couldnt resist the theatrical outrage, I also hate them BUT with more nostalgia
I have to disagree on the Ropes, the snakes are great.
Ghinis are meant to be used for puzzle solving, not offense. I used them in side-scrolling caves all the time or anywhere I needed to hit a switch on the other side of a wall.
The ReDead I really only used once.....in the bow and arrow battle against the 3 Dark Links. Being able to stun them while they were running around the room was a huge help in keeping them in place so I could hit them (and also bought me some time to sleep in bed during battle)
And the sign I also only used once but was actually VERY handy in this situation. It was in a battle early in the game and I honestly can't remember which off the top of my head. But I do recall it was a projectile based fight and so I just put up constant sign shields whenever the enemy would attack with rapid fire projectiles. And being that early in the game when your echo options are still very limited, I just used what I had to work with and it just happened to be exactly what I needed at the time.
I used the Goponga flower as a kind of artillery mid game. I usually deployed it on higher ground and just let it pound away at enemies.
@@Skyfire-x yeah this echo is actually okay against enemies that haven't spotted it which isn't unreasonable given the massive range it has.
Lol speed runner punching air right now, with you having the sign at #1. Thats the main thing that lets them beat the game in around 30 min
I like locking on with carmodillo... and just spaming it like a magic missile
I actually used the Beetle Mound a few times in my playthrough. It's extremely useful for pressing those two switches that you need pressed at the same time. You can easily time when the beetles are going to press on the switch.
1/3 of the list is lack of creativity, 1/3 of the list is skill issue, 1/3 is complaining.
The table is great for caves to place below yourself when you jump for a quick ascent. Better than the trampoline because it won’t fling you into enemy fire.
“The sign is the worst echo.”
The speed running community: “No, it’s the best.”
You have to wonder if the devs now are like: "WHY DID YOU WE INCLUDE THE SIGN AS AN ECHO???"
Echoes being able to dodge attacks in exchange for other benefits just doesn’t make sense to me. Sadly there is no cooldown between summoning them so whenever an echoes dies you can just respawn it immediately. Most of the time that even better so you can reposition it to be more effective.
To be fair to the hoarder and the ghini, they get a bit more use outside of combat. There are a few puzzles you can just skip by sending a ghini to hit a switch that's meant to just open a way back to the entrance. I also found the hoarder to be better at illuminating dark areas than fire echoes, plus there's no chance of them setting you on fire. It's not much, but it's something.
Signs are being used to Speedrun EoW in under 30min, so in that respect, it's pretty important and used at least once lol
Statue is great, can't believe it gets an honorable mention as bad. It floats in lava just like a lava rock allowing you to cross all lava in the game, and only costs 1. It blocks all the attacks from the mole boss and stuns him too, helpful in the boss rushes.
The problem with the Poe is the enemy still prefers to target Zelda rather than the Poe, which makes its fire traps useless. If attacking the Poe was prioritized, it would be a more effective echo.
I am a personal Redead defender. My recommendation: Stunning Scream. Then Bind the stunned enemy and pull them toward the Redead. This is super effective against most enemies, since they tend to do big damage when they actually hit the opponent.
If you bind the Redead, you can move it right to an enemy to freeze it with the scream then release it to have it attack.
1:44 The Ghini actually has a use against Bemos, though the level 1 was better.
They’re much more useful in 2D sections
4:20 the worst part about the Poe is that it’s fire lingers for a while, AND that it hurts you
7:58 unlike the bed, you can push tables, to let you get a staircase in a small area, using how the game snaps to a grid system. To be fair, this echo gets outmatched by the trampoline, but given it’s a requirement, being part of the tutorial, it gets a bye
use bind on the heavy item and it can still be used for staircases. especially with the frog jump ring
The drippitune is really useful in combination with an electric echo, since rain makes the shock radius significantly larger, and it can create rain even indoors.
The Ghini sucks for combat, but is great for hitting switches in 2D areas.
And the speed running community will likely hard disagree with you about the sign, since it's the echo that allows for the wrong warp shenanigans that make beating the game in half an hour possible. But in normal game play, it's totally worthless.
I actually liked using the Ghini on my first playthrough. Especially for switches, water fights or when there were walls inbetween Zelda and whatever I wanted to interact with
Lvl 2 ghini is okay for the zora rift boss, because if it hits it can destroy all the back things and allow you to attack it while vulnerable with better echoes.
The dripitune can be used to amplify your electric enemies range!
And if you bind some meat in front of a bird it’ll fly infinitely in that direction and u can hitch a ride
You can do more with the table if you use pushing to stack them. While that still leaves them as one of the worst still being exclusively worse, in terms of uses, then both beds and trampolines, the table is the only mandatory one and the only one you need in order to beat the first temple. You can even do the same trick with the bed and tornando, it just harder to pull off.
Carrot shouldn't be with the rest of the food items since it's the horse summon for the game
Using Gibdo scream to stun Arrow Link and Bomb Link was my Strat for those battles and actually paid off big time. Situational though.
Disagree with the Leever honorable mention. They're so good! They're decently tanky, you can spawn six of them at a time at most, and you can completely overwhelm your enemies in seconds because they will gang up on them.
What's also fun to do is to bind to an enemy, carry them on top of the Leever gang and drop them in. Many enemies will be finished in no time. Truly love the Leevers lol
I really like the redead. I usually don't use them to attack but alongside anotber echo, their scream will prevent the monster from attacking /moving too much
Redead screams will knock flying enemies out of the sky to where your ground troops can mop them up
Lol, the sign is the one echo that allows you to complete the game unter 40 Minutes! Of course, not useful for everybody, but the one with nearly unlimited potential...
I love the redead. I use them to freeze powerful armored or shielded enemies and then place a moblin or darknut behind them while they’re frozen.
I really like the Goponga flower. I like the lvl 1 Ghini because there are things is not afraid of. The ReDead is useful to stun enemies while another echo deals damage.
I don't know wtf the needlefly does, that's the worst.
The rope is amazing, ended up being my choice for fighting Ganon in the castle
I like the redead bc it can stun enemies, and even stun flying enemies to drop to the ground, making them so much easier to pick off.
Ropes are pretty great for a tier 1 echo, it's just that crawltulas are OP hence why ropes can't do anything to them.
The sign is critical to the glitch community.
The armos was useful for those puzzles that needed you to press down on the buttons at the same time.
Needleflies are not only bad echoes, they are probably the worst enemies. They are super slow to attack. I don't think a single one of them touched me a single time in the overworld. The only time they did was in 2D parts where everything was very packed together.
reeded is not useless, it is quite helpful to paralyze ennemies before another echoe attack them
The Sand Crab echoes are awesome for the 2D water sections. You can spam them and because of the 2D it doesn't matter that they only go one way
Ghini isn't great in a fight, but it can hit some switches before you're "supposed" to and skip some some rooms.
I disagree on the armos. It was my go to for timed floor switches since it moved at a reliable speed.
The Ghini is useful for hitting switches behind walls and doors.
Ok so the sign and carrot are good.
Carrot you can summon your horse
Sign you can use to perform many glitches including wrong warp and infinite rupees.
"Sign is the worst echo"
Speedrunners bet to disagree
Long range Sea Urchin and Lv 3 Lizalfos were my goto echoes once I got them. I definitely used a lot of Deku Babas early on though.
I would have Redeads higher. For standalone offense they suck, but they pair great with other echoes to hold down enemies that are more slippery while your faster soldiers close in on them.
Can't you use Redead as support to stun enemies while the other echoes attack?
Also, signs are the most powerful echo in the game. You can use it to skip straight to the end of the game, and you can even use it to play as Link instead of Zelda.
Ghini is great for cheesing switch puzzles. Target a switch anywhere and they can fly right to it (might still take them like 3 tries to hit it, but still)
For the honorable mentions, I will say that the Armos is good for pressing out of reach buttons, as well as for that puzzle where you have to activate one of the two switches you have to press at the same time. Not much else after that, unfortunately.
However, the rest of the list is pretty spot on. I will say the Poe is the biggest disappointment for me as I never got them to successfully attack any enemies for me.
The worst on this list is the best for speed runners
Rope is ok for when you find it: it’s decent for spamming attack in the early game. It’s fast, cheap, and goes straight, so locking onto a stronger enemy (for early game; like moblins and boarblins n such) and then spamming Ropes can take them down fast. Pretty much as soon as I get anything remotely stronger than Ropes I’ve already left the early game and don’t use them anymore; they’ve served their purpose.
The carrot isn’t useless as you use it to summon your horse. As for the #1 worst echo, it should have been the ball because you only use it once in the entire game and that’s to get to the Deku tree.
Did you know it? Most missed attacks can easily be solved if you catch enemies with Tri.
Ghinis can phase through walls and other obstacles in dungeons and hit switches that you target...
And Ribbitune can be used to lure the Lynel to water where he immediately drowns...
For a starting player, I think Ghini LV2 is pretty good.