First time I come across a vid of yours. I am no pro, I tamed my horses and a bunch of people's horses in my village area, they still call me to gentle their horses. I am so grateful that a pro like yourself filmed himself being honest and sensible. I am not one to back down, but I did find myself saying "It's just not worth the risk" on one occasion I was thrown off violently, but luckily had no serious injuries. It's so relieving to walk away from that bloody crazy horse that you know can kill you. Thank you for showing us what a true pro looks like. All the way from Spain (Europe, of course) thanks, it really is uncommon to find a pro point out the limit and stay within. It makes us respect you more, to see that you show you are human. Back at school we were taught that only a madman is never afraid, to be brave is to overcome your fear and proceed, yet to be wise you first work out if it is worth overcoming your fear and proceeding with the particular task. Thank you again, I wish you not good luck, but success in whatever you go for.
Thank you so much, I appreciate that. I dont flunk many horses but some are not worth it. What part of Spain? My brother and I tried to drink all the wine in Spain for about two months when we were younger lol. I loved the country and the people I found to be beautiful both inside and out. Cheers!
Excellent thought-provoking issues. At 65 myself, I think my time now should be risk averse and work on refining my skills with better horses. Thanks for your confirming nod to that. I'm tired of fixing horses without fixing owners.
What I like and respect is the fact you said you don't want to ride this horse and the owner should not ride this horse. I work at a rescue and the first time I saw the owner have a horse put down was because she did not want someone on down the line getting hurt from this horse. This horse bit 4 different ranch hands and all were a good bites. I took a while for me to realize that "yes" there are bad horses out there.
I'm always amazed at your perspectives. When someone as gifted as you says that basically it's not worth it, it really frees me of some of the pressure to "cowboy up" and to think that I am a a loser if I don't get a horse "fixed". Thanks as always for your honest videos.
The first time I watched you , you talked about Arlo and Alice's restaurant and I was hooked. This is the best so far, with the mesican horns, Alvin and the Chipmunks fast forward and a damn sticky bronc ride. Thanks.
This horse is sure a pretty bugger ❤ Nice Ride Bret. Your sticky my friend. This is the thing, even if you got the horse lined out and better, there always seems to be certain situations that the horse might get into and the bad stuff resurfaces, especially for an owner that just wants to relax and have a good relaxed ride. You probably saved lives here. No shame is saying no thanks to certain horses and it takes an outstanding horseman to say they can't fix them all. Thanks for a great video Bret n Amy
Thank you Cody. That horse kinda broke my heart because he was the kind as far as looks. The bad decisions Iv made in my life are what made me so sticky lol.
I just picked up a copy of The Started Colt and I’ve been really enjoying it, very well written and insightful. Thanks for helping me become a better horseman Bret. 👍
Thank you very much for this video. I have an older horse here in training, and that is exactly what I'm going to do, advise the client that is not worth it. someone eventually is going to get hurt.
Dear sir, I have worked on many horses hanging like this, may I respectfully suggest you have talk with an equine dentist as there are a host of dentition 🎉 issues that could be contributing to his behaviour, stay strong sir
Great observation and thank you for being so respectful. Turns out I am an Equine dentist and that was something I looked at before I ever did anything else. Look at some of the archives I have done several videos about teeth. Thanks for the comment. BY the way I have fixed a lot of buckers and runs aways and other problems with a float and its amazing how much that can effect things. Thats why I always look at the mouth first, I can fix more in 15 minutes with a float than I can in two months under saddle.
Appreciate your comments..you tell it like it is.. "not all horses are good & not worth the effort to fix. " Love the " you can't ride him , & I don't want to " .. I can totally relate to this vid & your honesty... been there, done that too. You honored yourself. Yes being a " passenger " is not good... something that most don't know that they are..
I'm amazed at all the armchair experts that say they or their guru of choice could fix this horse. Shows how naive and inexperienced they are. Great ride! He'll make a nice looking bronc, I wonder if he'll have the heart to buck good or will just be a runaway. I think he would work good as a right hand horse in the middle of a six up team pulling a stage from St. Louis to California.
Thank you. And I agree, I have a barn full and I dont need that one. Im sticky now but I used to be forked, I would have been singing yanky doodle and lighting a smoke 20 years ago lol now I can just get around them.
Oh no! Red lights. Yikes, the right eye saw you! Good thing you're a great bronc rider. Some of my favorite horses (and mule) were going to get a bullet. But I like a challenge and the opportunity to learn more about horse behavior and how I can change my approach to get along. Got a tough mustang right now who has been reinforced to run away from people. Going to get darkest before the dawn. But she's a double swirl, thinking-type and I'm excited to help her change her thoughts. Sensitive horses with spark are winners, as you know. Horses hit potholes in their training. Not many want to waste time with these types of horses. I understand that.
Yep. The right person with enough time could have done him some good but it wasn't me and I wasn't going to spend my clients money that way. Sometimes those toughs are fun if you have time. Speaking of whorls this horse had non at all on his head and neck and none in the usual bad spots on his body. Very odd.
I've got 2 now that were destined for a can that are great horses, just mishandled. Many horses with a good brain can come back from horrible things, but those horses that have been handled well by top hands and are still screws aren't worth it imo. You just can't fix really stupid or really nutty in any mammal, two legged included.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt that is strange. The more I learn and older I get, the more I realize how much I still don't know. But it makes life exciting and better than the alternative. Might as well die if you have learned everything there is to know. I'm also blown away by how much those old timers knew about reading horses, like the whorl patterns and the correlation with brain. They got savvy or got dead no 911 helicopter to pick up.
no doubt. I am more amazed by them now then I was when I was a kid and I thought they were magicians then!. Im the same, the more I learn the less I know.@@tracyjohnson5023
You can tell from the get go the horse was not ready to be saddled because during the saddling process his head is set way to high looking braced and apprehensive . The horse does not trust humans and my guess was mishandled and not taught in the proper way during his initial breaking process . It’s sad because now he is labeled as a bad horse and his future looks very bleak. I will say you are amazing bronc rider .
Of all the videos you've done this is one that makes the most sense to me. First you have to be honest with yourself and more importantly you have to be honest with the horse regardless of whatever discipline or skills you want the horse to learn. The reality is some horses will never fit your program whatever that might be, and realistically they never will. That's just the way it is. You can gain knowledge by reading books and watching you tube videos, but wisdom only comes from experience and from years of doing whatever thing it is your trying to master... (i.e.) ... Hard knocks...Lessons are repeated until learned... Nuff said.
The scary ones are the ones where you do everything right and things still go way wrong.I live 2000 miles from you. But if you’d called me I still would’ve hauled him to the sale for you. That’s how bad he scared me. Some bridges you cross.. Some bridges you burn. This is one you burn.
My cart driving mentor (senior trainer, world championship participant) had once a horse which was totally cool as long as he can't see above the blinkers on his harness. When the blinkers were just 1/2 inch too low or when he raises the head high enough so he could get a glimpse on anything behind and above him, he would run off as if the devil haunts him. You could ride or drive him as long as the blinkers were on point in place, if not hell broke loose. This horse was not trainable. This trainer tried everything for almost 6 months. This horse never experienced anything horrible, it was his brain.
My trainer put him down after 6 month, because he said it's to dangerous to let him live. Sad story but this horse maybe would have killed himself and anybody around him one day. I have seen him running / jumping against a wall of the barn. Horrible.
Da'gum Ol Son, you had me at the intro video! That was some good watchin! The last two buckoffs I had I was just as smooth, then I woke up. Had a headache and some broken ribs from something. You gave it, but as we all know, and you have learned and are basically practicing it, way too many good ones out there to be messing with the dinks. Canners! Oops, can't say that anymore. Alpo is looking for qualified help.
Good ride. I’ve done the same thing, tell the owner they can’t ride the horse, and I’m not riding them any more either. With 20 million horses in the US, get a good one that is willing to at least try.
Wise choice. Time was I would have tackled one like that but that was almost 60 years ago. There were plenty of that kind to get on and some who of us wanted to show what they could do. I got over that in a hurry. There were better ones to ride. Read CMR’s story “ A Pair of Outlaws”
Fascinating video. You always have observations about horses that I've never heard before. Question about this horse: you talk about him being frightened when he sees you out of his right eye. How much of his problem was that? The eye thing. I would have thought that was fixable. So what was it about life that he didn't get?
I appreciate this video so very much. I have had to let horses go and you start out thinking maybe I will have a Ray Hunt moment and really make a good tough using horse and putting myself, the horse and others in danger just is not worth it. Thank you.
I should have waited until the end of the video to comment. The problem with taking him to the sale is somebody could get hurt or killed by him. Years ago we had a couple slaughter facilities in the state to get rid of horses like him.
Holy cow! What a ride! You could be a rodeo bronc rider, and win big too. Poor horse, he doesn’t know he blew his last chance. Glad you didn’t get hurt and thanx for sharing. I really enjoyed the ride!
Im sure glad you liked it. I was a rodeo rider for some time, winning big means maligning better decisions than I did in my 20's. That horse still has a chance, I found him a home being a professional bronc.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt That is great news! So glad all went well for you and the horse. You are an amazing trainer. And I am a new sub. Now let’s get back to work! 😁
Great video. I agree with Cody...you still sticky. LOL Horses are like people, a few are simply incorrigible. Ride the good ones; tank the bad ones and life is better for all. Thanks for the bronc ride...don't get to see that much anymore. Keep up the good work.
I'm 68 and been training horses my whole life.. From what I seen that horse wasn't ready to ever put a foot in the strip.. Ground work is pretty important. If it would have been done right he'd a had control of that horse.. It just easy to give up and take a good horse to the sale barn..
Im not sure if you heard in the video but that horse had been with another trainer for 60 days, the owner wanted to know if he could go to riding him, the answer was no. Could more ground work do the trick? Maybe maybe not.
Cowboy stuff right there. I am glad you decided he was never going to work out. You are too valuable to risk getting hurt on one that will never amount to anything anyway.
Nice looking horse, is he done or is someone else going to give him a shot? After reading the comments on possible causes I would like to see if anyone else can have success with him.
There's a physical issue for sure. He looks like it's a lot of work to go around that post. A healthy, sound horse shouldn't have that much trouble. I'm thinking it's in the neck. Many explosive horses have neck issues, and this horse's difficulty going in small circles and losing his mind when asked to bend to the right seems on par with a neck issue. Could be something else though...kissing spine? Maybe PSSM? It'd take some digging by a competent vet to know for sure. And then there is no guarantee it'd be fixable. I'm a firm believer though that the majority of "crazy" horses are simply horses in pain. Some are stoic and shut down and just soldier on. Some...not so much.
My thoughts exactly. Horses do not possess a frontal lobe,per se, so they do not have the capacity to "plan out" bad behavior or any real abstract thinking, they use (what there is of a frontal lobe) for voluntary movement...there is ALWAYS a reason for a behavior...Years and years of "fixing" "broken" "Unsafe" horses has taught me that.
I can't disagree with most of what you said and he may have been hurt, we will never know because the owner didn't want to go that route. I will say you would be amazed how many, especially big horses that have no pain issues at all have that much trouble going that small around the post. It is really eye opening just how much they compensate for balance when you start using the post. I find a lot of horses can't even correctly lope around the outside of that 60 foot round pen because they can't balance.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt I wouldn't be amazed at all, most of the horses I've ridden have been 16+ hands, including those that I've started under saddle. It's hard enough for a young horse to canter around in a full-sized dressage arena without losing its balance. It takes a lot of strength and flexibility for a horse to move in balance in a small area, and they aren't born with that because horses aren't designed to run around in little circles. It takes a lot of time and careful training to help a horse find its balance and to be able to balance on such a small circle (even the 60 foot round pen). A green broke youngster who has been sitting and doing nothing for awhile certainly shouldn't be expected to be balanced in a round pen. I hope this horse's good looks land him somewhere other than a processing plant. I know "pretty is as pretty does" as they say, and I do believe there definitely ARE some horses that aren't worth the effort (I've known three in my 36 years in horses), but it'd be nice to see if this guy's issues could be fixed via some vet attention and perhaps a different approach to restarting him. Not faulting you. Your program is what it is, and this horse doesn't fit it. It sounds like his owner is done trying. I get it. They cost too much to feed to have one that won't cooperate. And dumping money into vet diagnostics is not cheap venture either.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt It irks me that so many potential pain or communication issues are overlooked or flat-out ignored. Patience is a virtue, it's only fair that we are clear with our intents and take the time for them to be physically and mentally prepared for any given task. Animals are sentient beings. Brute force and pushing are often the go-to with disastrous results, and a shut down horse.
Had one identical a couple years ago. Really well bred Pepto Boonsmal breeding looked a lot like the horse in your video actually (maybe they are related?). What's his breeding? I think I mentioned him to you awhile back. Spent four years of my life trying to break him. That high head when you were saddling him looked so familiar with one leg cocked (coyote for sure). My horse also wouldn't turn to the right although he would tail to the right just fine. Damn sure could buck and run off. He was dangerous so I shipped him back to the breeder in Big Sandy Montana (not to mention any names) because I've had 5 out of 6 good horses from them. Sometimes they are just born with a screw loose. I got into 3 wrecks with him so I sent him to a younger trainer (thought maybe he knew I was past my prime) and he kicked his ass also after 90 days of training so I knew it wasn't just me. I had him vet checked and two chiropractors look at him. All said he was physically sound. Sometimes we have to drop our pride and send them down the road. Wisdom should come with age (I'm 66). He's the horse that I started wearing a hockey helmet and bull vest with. Still do when I start them. Good to see that the real deal (meaning you) also meets their match here and there. Really good ride cowboy!! Better velcro butt than me for sure.
Thank you thank you. There was a time in my life I would have hurt me and the horse trying to win but I outgrew that. I dont know how that horse was bred but I know Peptos are known for being hard to be around. Good idea with the helmet and vest, iv got 16 years left before I get to that I guess. Cheers and thanks for the great comment.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt Hadn't heard that about the Peptoboonsmal lines. The ones I have heard tales about being random buckers and bolters came from Hancock lines, but clearly a bad mind can come from anywhere.
Those poor ol Hancocks have a bad rap in my opinion, I have rode a bunch of them and while I never liked them they were all ok. Of course they dont have a bad rap for nothing so maybe Im just lucky lol.@@jimmyyounger618
Good call on that horse, acts like he may have been exposed to locoweed at some point. Strange one sided behavior hard to fix when their brain wont let them think right.
"felt like a locoed horse"?? Is that actually a thing? What do you mean? The ones that feel like they have a loose screw or a worm in their brain?@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt
There is a plant that grows in the western United States that range people call Loco Weed, I dont recall its correct name but horses that eat it become addicted to it very quickly and will search for it. It does neurological damage to the brain that never goes away and gets worse the more they eat. Generally they seem ok until they get there heart rate up and then they act out in strange ways. Some go drink from places that have no water. others eat rocks and sand, others buck and run off and fall down.@@emilylewis7642
I have started a lot of four five and six year olds myself and they are not supposed to act like this. Further this horse had 60 days as a long 2 year old and acted like this so I think it was him.
thank you. Im sure that or a number of other things may have but im not a problem horse guy, just a horse guy. In the end the client wast interested in long term fix it stuff. Thanks for the comment.
You are an expert, but I am still wondering if another type of training would have helped. Some horse (mine) hates going in circles and will rebel. I trained her by following other experienced horses on trails. She is great with other horses, and getting better on her own. I would never put a horse on a walker. It is deadening and an insult. If a horse bonds with you, it will change behavior- I like natural horsemanship, walking your horse, trails, etc. IMO
Im sure a lot of things could have helped but I knew what the owner expected and what he was willing to spend etc. If you had twelve head a day to ride and they were all in stalls you'd love the hot walker. They actually really enjoy going on it.
I am certain that the folks in France will be pleased with your wise decision. He sure was a pretty horse. It seems your "friend" was not entirely honest with you when asking if you would get him straightened out. That's just my take on it.
I find it interesting to see a pro like yourself show where "the limit" is. You could make 5 finished horses in the time it would take to fix that one. Thanks for showing a video with one that didn't make it. there ain't always a happy ending.. I like the comments down thread about "a pair of outlaws" One of my favorite collections of short stories. Quick Question: Did you do your "Tres Pasos"?
Well Ill be danged, I ay have missed them. I doubt I did but we didn't cut the film so maybe. I am glad you enjoyed the video, I wanted to show some real life stuff. In the CM Russle reverence I am not sure who the outlaw was, me or him. It used to be me but now days???
Thanks for sharing that one! Very interesting. Curious, do you have any idea from your experience what would have caused the horse to want to look to the one side over the other, and to seem to have that fear of seeing you from one side and not the other? Hopefully that question is worded clearly enough lol
Good question. There is a horse in the left eye and a horse in the right and you can't count on the one on the left telling the one one the right you are coming.
Yeah, my version of a serretta or a Portugees cavesson. I made it in the shop one day when I couldn't get anything to feel the way I want. You are the only person who has ever noticed and mentioned that.
I find that beings the chain articulates some and conforms to the shape of the muzzle it translates well to the hackamore I start them in which is coreless .
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt Is there a particular reason why you use a coreless hackamore? Some years ago I had extensive conversations with a good hackamore man and braider about a double pencil bosal, 2 bodies 8 plait square braided without a core. I braided me one but haven't had a chance to use and try it yet.
Thanks I have a unbroke runaway good idea. I'm a girl and my horse has draft in her can't hold her. So now I have to dig a hole for the pole. Treat her to the pole and round and round she's a mustang not reg.cocolate palinino deal sweet just runs off thank 6 yrs. Old first time any ones done that just do more and two bridles one bit less. And emergency stops tight circle s when teaching her to stopp and canter stop go 20 minutes a time and rest to think and you do have lunch❤
I have a mare like this. She had bolted through fencing, ripped roped out of my hands constantly. I have done months of ground work with her, it has only fixed the issue to a point. Idk what to do with her I have gotten second third opinions, all with the same results. She is a little cow bred QH. I’m at a loss. Considering euthanasia for her
I love my animals and would always give it hell trying to fix the bad ones. Over time I have gotten better at saying no to taking on basket cases but that’s because I have failed to fix a few and the sadness of having to put them down and the danger that they put everyone around them in is not worth it! There are so many good ones out there that need help.
I agree, my biggest fear on this horse is that one day she could possibly bolt loose and end up in the street and cause someone to hit her and get seriously injured. She will run into or through anything in her way for reasons that I cannot see. Something is wrong with the horse I think and I rarely will say that
Schizophrenia is about one percent of the U. S. population in humans. Horses who knows. A horse can’t tell you what’s bothering it. And a Veterinarian may or may not can help. It’s been a long time since I’ve had good horse. I’ve had some nice ones but none moved correctly. I did have one as a kid that horse looked after me.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt Since your a equine dentist maybe you can help me out! How much do you charge? How far are you from Texas? I have a bad tooth or 3 & my wife calls me a jack... for over 30 yrs! Sure love your honesty, opinions, thoughts and most importantly your time putting these videos out! Be safe and Thank you sir
Well he wasn't exactly "just given up" on. If you recall he had been tried by another for 60 days and by myself for two weeks. We found him a job he likes.
At 8:17 you mention that he is not upset about being saddled and standing quietly. But I have to tell you when my horse has one of his ‘spells’ he is standing quietly with one hind leg cocked and the head raised up like this one was doing. And that’s a sure sign (for my horse at least) that he is very tense and ready to blow. So I wonder if this horse was just ‘keeping it in?’
Agreed- he was very 'bracy' while saddling. Not relaxed at all.. head up, hallowed backed. Kudos for getting on him. I personally wouldn't have. Glad you weren't hurt in the whole fiasco
I think Bret knew that but at some point one must get on. There’s only so much groundwork one can do. There’s such a thing as too much groundwork where the horse learns that’s all there is, especially a young one. The sooner they understand the whole job the better. He had to step on sometime. There’s no argument to this. For whatever reason this horse wasn’t made for a riding horse job. Period. I think the bigger point is gratitude for the video so that the rest of us can recognize this kind of situation and appreciate a trainer willing to help us learn the whole story. Thank you! And…..good ridin’!
I think he might have been in some pain but a reaction like that! I hurt to but I dont act a rouge on account of it. A horse that will pull that over being sore will also pull it for any other reason.
I don't think Ol Ryan want any part of that horse. Truth is a lot of people could "fix" this horse but I am not a problem horse guy and the owner wanted a good horse not a "fixed" problem horse.
What the hell are you people talking about, "bad horse"??? If I got on 18:44 the horses I start without first laying a foundation of how to ,stop, turn, and back up and without anything familiar and relaxing to look at in a seemingly, (to a horse), pointless circle while being tortured and over-controlled and then ridden with stabbing sharp spurs 5hat are cruelly givig commands the horse has never felt or learned previously, I would have a lot of bad rides also. This horse is actually a good boy and very patient. You could have been going along so well and continued to be calm and relaxed if you hadn't pushed him so hard and if you hadn't sat still on him so much. On the first day started horse, the correcting to do isn't always to sit still a lot. Keep them moving keep them walking them from exploding the horses need to move their bodies to dispel physical tension or encumberments. If you can keep their feet moving so their mind will be engaged then th😊😊😊😊😊 18:44 ey have a chance to actually relax. Sitting on him at a stand still or just barely moving controlling him with commands that he doesn't understand is going to build mistrust , resentment, and an explosive or spooky horse. Horses get into trouble when they stand still or you try to make them stand still. Once they are moving they tend to feel more natural and comfortable. I don't know why you people think that this horse has then thoroughly started 4 started properly at all. If I were that horse I would try to Buck you off also. It is plain ridiculous for a trainer not to have bothered Building Bridges with the commands which they were asking the horse to respond to before they get on it. You, sir, must only train quarter horses. You stay in the saddle well and appear to have an experienced way with horses but to me it looks like your eyes are still closed. Most other breeds would not put up with that kind of crap training. Please forgive me for being blunt I do respect your horseback riding abilities. My advice to you would be 3 things: number one, how dare you give up on perfectly good horses when you have never even given them a chance at being properly trained? Number two, lose the hideous Spurs what the hell is wrong with you?! Is not appropriate to wear Spurs on a first-day breaking in a horse because that's definitely going to make him freaking not like you or the experience. Horses like to have fun be comfortable and enjoy themselves. Those inconsiderate Spurs are making that not even possible and giving that horse is very poor first opinion about being ridden. Way to ruin horse right from the start! Number three, give you a horse some freedom for goodness sakes! Turn him loose while he bucks the hell out of the saddle instead of over-controlling him. All that control is going to do is make him resent you and think that you're causing his experience to be unhappy. Let him figure it out with the saddle without torturing him at the same time, and also let him experience without you being involved with the negative side of this but controlling him around the arena as he's experiencing the discomfort of a saddle you are only shooting yourself in the foot and diminishing any possible remaining respect or Trust that lovely and good horse might've felt for you or wanted to feel for you. 4, send them to somebody that trains Arabians. They'll be more in tune with a highly intelligent and sensitive horse like this one appears to be. I'm in Hawaii but I'll take him if the owners want to pay for the shipping. He will be returned back as a child safe well-behaved who thinks people are good and also obeys and respects them, (the rider or humans in general as the alpha, or master.
I guess you didn't listen that well, that was not that horses first day, he had already had 60 days with another trainer and my job was to see if he was worth the effort financially for the owner, he wasn't.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt you can tie a soft rope with a snap to a hackamore or ring snaffle. Works pretty good most of the time. You let it loose then get a little tighter depending on how they take it . Better than pulling on them 1st time when you are in the saddle. It’s good ground work for about 2-3 days before you get on ... Learned it from my old man he is a pretty good ole Texas Cowpuncher and has worked with some good show guys. Learned a lot from John Hoyt
@@tannerrichardson3979 Yeah I tie most of them to the tail and have since I was a little kid. The only reason Im not sure if I did on this horse is because he had already been ridden 90 days by another guy and I wanted to find out if this horse was worth putting the money into. John Hoyt was a hell of a hand. Thanks for the advice.
Thank you for putting it out there that not every horse can be fixed. No horse is worth your life or risk being crippled up forever. I'd like to see his papers. I'd just about bet it's a case of line breeding that didn't work. Around here we call it inbred when it goes wrong. Imo many of those screws are a result. Btw yes you are still a pretty good bronc rider ❤
Thank you. I can still ride them but I dont crave it anymore. Funny you mention that because when I called the owner to tell him I was chicken feeding the horse he said "when line breeding goes wrong". Good call
@@lilmissstfu1126 Hhmm I doubt it. Hancock horses tend to just be broncy when you let them sit, but otherwise decent brains. Typical of many bloodlines that were bred to actually work for a living, with the exception of the skipper W horses. A lot of them were just plain screws without line breeding added. Double up on skipper line, get that life insurance paid up. I've always had good luck with peppy, Doc bar and wimpy horses. Can be sensitive, but sane with a good work ethic.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt Hhhmm, I'm seeing a good number of the HB cat horses bred too close that are just plain screwy. These days cutters are often referred to as cow bred so that would fit.
His stance tells me his is aware but not relaxed....head up. He is watching......and he is not accepting but poised.... He is smart....got a bad start and is hot to handle. He need intensive redo!!
Did you ever contemplate that maybe it was a pain issue? Maybe a 1/2 dose of Bute would have given some insight into a problem that wasn't the horses fault?
This has been asked by others and I darn sure did question that, however even it is a pain issue we can't except that reaction because the nest little ouch will cause the same thing. Hands down he was a dangerous horse. Good insight on your part but if you had been around him you would have never questioned this issue any farther than I did.
Too bad, nice looking gelding. I know it's not your "problem", but has he been looked at by a Veterinarian for possible neurological or pain/health issues? The Veterinary Tech in me always wonders about possible health-related issues being at the root of "Behavioral" issues....Well sat, BTW...looks exhausting
I was exhausted. He never got looked at but Im pretty certain it was not a pain issue, just a gut feeling from doing this a long time. End of the day the owner was not the kind to go that route. Good insight on your part.
I know the guy that started him and he is a good hand. He sort of felt to me like the other guy hid from the bucking and created the run off. Who knows?@@laurence1643
Thanks so much for sharing. I currently question my goals on my 10 year old double whorl mare I started at 4 years old from Blm. She’s great at almost everything until those moments she isn’t. She warns me and we just stop for the day but got her for my wife who is not as competent as I am. My wife likes her as a pet. But has only ridden her a few times and I don’t push her to do more because I’m just not sure about her. This video helps me in my conviction. I like the horse but l like my wife more.
It's a shame such a nice horse has been so poorly started. It takes a second to get a horse in a bad way and absolute days and tons of patience to undo!! I bet he has not been desensitized with a rope or flag either! Take him to Ryan Rose....
@adavis1989 I disagree. This horses problems are from the ground......he was put under saddle before he was "even" tame. If you watch Ryan with the Mustangs and then watch him with J Lo you will see what I mean. Ryan is a specialist in reading a horse with problems. This horse is not mean...he has not charged or bitten. He can be saved and be valuable! He is too nice to throw away! Ryan trouble shoots the base issues.
Well I guess maybe I should give ol' Ryan a call, I might learn a thing or two about getting around tough horses. Thanks for opening my eyes to my own ignorance.@@donnac.1609
From my point of view, probably one of the most important "horse training" videos ever posted on social media... Genuine/authentic real world...
Thank you so much, I appreciate that.
"it doesn't always work, not even for me" That's a great line worth stealing.
Its all yours if you want it.
In the ER they're not going to ask "Which eye bucked you off?".
Pat Puckett
pretty much lol
First time I come across a vid of yours. I am no pro, I tamed my horses and a bunch of people's horses in my village area, they still call me to gentle their horses. I am so grateful that a pro like yourself filmed himself being honest and sensible. I am not one to back down, but I did find myself saying "It's just not worth the risk" on one occasion I was thrown off violently, but luckily had no serious injuries. It's so relieving to walk away from that bloody crazy horse that you know can kill you. Thank you for showing us what a true pro looks like. All the way from Spain (Europe, of course) thanks, it really is uncommon to find a pro point out the limit and stay within. It makes us respect you more, to see that you show you are human. Back at school we were taught that only a madman is never afraid, to be brave is to overcome your fear and proceed, yet to be wise you first work out if it is worth overcoming your fear and proceeding with the particular task. Thank you again, I wish you not good luck, but success in whatever you go for.
Thank you so much, I appreciate that. I dont flunk many horses but some are not worth it. What part of Spain? My brother and I tried to drink all the wine in Spain for about two months when we were younger lol. I loved the country and the people I found to be beautiful both inside and out. Cheers!
Appreciate the video and honesty. Not a lot of horseman are willing to be candid.
Im as Candid as Christmas. Im not sure if that makes sense but it sounds good. Glad you dig it.
Excellent thought-provoking issues. At 65 myself, I think my time now should be risk averse and work on refining my skills with better horses. Thanks for your confirming nod to that. I'm tired of fixing horses without fixing owners.
fixing horses is easy, fixing owners is a chore
For that reason I only train my own horses. I am tired of people...
Thats good work if you can get it lol@@esmewetterwachs7462
The ones that don't work are the ones most trainers fail to ever say anything about. Really appreciate this video and words of wisdom.
Im not scared to say im wrong and its a good thing cuz I am a lot.
Yeah, me too! Thanks again for all the videos!@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArtgood job not getting tossed off
Thanks. I am happy about it as well@@nicolaxoxo1
What I like and respect is the fact you said you don't want to ride this horse and the owner should not ride this horse. I work at a rescue and the first time I saw the owner have a horse put down was because she did not want someone on down the line getting hurt from this horse. This horse bit 4 different ranch hands and all were a good bites. I took a while for me to realize that "yes" there are bad horses out there.
sure as hell are. Good on you.
I'm always amazed at your perspectives. When someone as gifted as you says that basically it's not worth it, it really frees me of some of the pressure to "cowboy up" and to think that I am a a loser if I don't get a horse "fixed". Thanks as always for your honest videos.
You bet and thank you. The only time you fail is when you dont learn something about horses or yourself.
The juice has got to be worth the squeeze
The first time I watched you , you talked about Arlo and Alice's restaurant and I was hooked. This is the best so far, with the mesican horns, Alvin and the Chipmunks fast forward and a damn sticky bronc ride.
Thanks.
Thank you. If you can't have fun you may as well just give up lol. I can still kinda ride one but I dont crave it anymore.
This horse is sure a pretty bugger ❤
Nice Ride Bret. Your sticky my friend.
This is the thing, even if you got the horse lined out and better, there always seems to be certain situations that the horse might get into and the bad stuff resurfaces, especially for an owner that just wants to relax and have a good relaxed ride. You probably saved lives here.
No shame is saying no thanks to certain horses and it takes an outstanding horseman to say they can't fix them all.
Thanks for a great video Bret n Amy
Thank you Cody. That horse kinda broke my heart because he was the kind as far as looks. The bad decisions Iv made in my life are what made me so sticky lol.
Good ride, great decision. "Horses are God's creatures and wonderful animals, but they aren't worth my little finger" - John Lyons
Well said. LOL
I just picked up a copy of The Started Colt and I’ve been really enjoying it, very well written and insightful. Thanks for helping me become a better horseman Bret. 👍
Wow thank you. I am so pleased you enjoy it. That truly means a lot to me.
Thank you very much for this video. I have an older horse here in training, and that is exactly what I'm going to do, advise the client that is not worth it. someone eventually is going to get hurt.
Good. That will do your reputation more good than sending one home that only you can get around.
Dear sir, I have worked on many horses hanging like this, may I respectfully suggest you have talk with an equine dentist as there are a host of dentition 🎉 issues that could be contributing to his behaviour, stay strong sir
Great observation and thank you for being so respectful. Turns out I am an Equine dentist and that was something I looked at before I ever did anything else. Look at some of the archives I have done several videos about teeth. Thanks for the comment. BY the way I have fixed a lot of buckers and runs aways and other problems with a float and its amazing how much that can effect things. Thats why I always look at the mouth first, I can fix more in 15 minutes with a float than I can in two months under saddle.
Come to find out my so called "punk" 10 year old does have dental issues. Thanks for the comments and the comment -comments!
that is usually the first place to look@@sharonbatson634
We get teeth done soon as they arrive to be started
Appreciate your comments..you tell it like it is.. "not all horses are good & not worth the effort to fix. " Love the " you can't ride him , & I don't want to " .. I can totally relate to this vid & your honesty... been there, done that too. You honored yourself. Yes being a " passenger " is not good... something that most don't know that they are..
thank you. Glad you liked it.
I'm amazed at all the armchair experts that say they or their guru of choice could fix this horse. Shows how naive and inexperienced they are. Great ride! He'll make a nice looking bronc, I wonder if he'll have the heart to buck good or will just be a runaway. I think he would work good as a right hand horse in the middle of a six up team pulling a stage from St. Louis to California.
Time will tell. I havnt kept up with him. I found him a job, its his job to take it.
Exactly , i sold Harry Vold one just like him.
Smart move in my opinion. Your sticky. Physical or mental doesn't matter. Sometimes it's not worth it. Great vidio.
Thank you. And I agree, I have a barn full and I dont need that one. Im sticky now but I used to be forked, I would have been singing yanky doodle and lighting a smoke 20 years ago lol now I can just get around them.
Oh no! Red lights. Yikes, the right eye saw you! Good thing you're a great bronc rider.
Some of my favorite horses (and mule) were going to get a bullet. But I like a challenge and the opportunity to learn more about horse behavior and how I can change my approach to get along.
Got a tough mustang right now who has been reinforced to run away from people. Going to get darkest before the dawn. But she's a double swirl, thinking-type and I'm excited to help her change her thoughts.
Sensitive horses with spark are winners, as you know. Horses hit potholes in their training. Not many want to waste time with these types of horses. I understand that.
Yep. The right person with enough time could have done him some good but it wasn't me and I wasn't going to spend my clients money that way. Sometimes those toughs are fun if you have time. Speaking of whorls this horse had non at all on his head and neck and none in the usual bad spots on his body. Very odd.
I've got 2 now that were destined for a can that are great horses, just mishandled. Many horses with a good brain can come back from horrible things, but those horses that have been handled well by top hands and are still screws aren't worth it imo. You just can't fix really stupid or really nutty in any mammal, two legged included.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt that is strange. The more I learn and older I get, the more I realize how much I still don't know. But it makes life exciting and better than the alternative. Might as well die if you have learned everything there is to know.
I'm also blown away by how much those old timers knew about reading horses, like the whorl patterns and the correlation with brain. They got savvy or got dead no 911 helicopter to pick up.
no doubt. I am more amazed by them now then I was when I was a kid and I thought they were magicians then!. Im the same, the more I learn the less I know.@@tracyjohnson5023
Im proof that the two legged kind never really get right, just get a little gentler.@@tracyjohnson5023
I appreciate the honesty and showing us when it's time to call it quits. Pride and ego are free tickets the hospital.
for sure
You can tell from the get go the horse was not
ready to be saddled because during the saddling process his head is set way to high looking braced and apprehensive . The horse does not trust humans and my guess was mishandled and not taught in the proper way during his initial breaking process .
It’s sad because now he is labeled as a bad horse
and his future looks very bleak.
I will say you are amazing bronc rider .
Thanks
Of all the videos you've done this is one that makes the most sense to me. First you have to be honest with yourself and more importantly you have to be honest with the horse regardless of whatever discipline or skills you want the horse to learn. The reality is some horses will never fit your program whatever that might be, and realistically they never will. That's just the way it is. You can gain knowledge by reading books and watching you tube videos, but wisdom only comes from experience and from years of doing whatever thing it is your trying to master... (i.e.) ... Hard knocks...Lessons are repeated until learned... Nuff said.
glad you liked it. I agree, not all of them make it.
Damn, good ride cowboy. Good ride.
thank you sir
Best realist video ever
A real honest video and lesson 👍 there are just some horses that are not worth rhe risk of getting hurt.
The scary ones are the ones where you do everything right and things still go way wrong.I live 2000 miles from you. But if you’d called me I still would’ve hauled him to the sale for you. That’s how bad he scared me. Some bridges you cross.. Some bridges you burn. This is one you burn.
True dat
My cart driving mentor (senior trainer, world championship participant) had once a horse which was totally cool as long as he can't see above the blinkers on his harness. When the blinkers were just 1/2 inch too low or when he raises the head high enough so he could get a glimpse on anything behind and above him, he would run off as if the devil haunts him. You could ride or drive him as long as the blinkers were on point in place, if not hell broke loose. This horse was not trainable. This trainer tried everything for almost 6 months. This horse never experienced anything horrible, it was his brain.
Some just aunt any good. A runaway on a cart is terrifying
My trainer put him down after 6 month, because he said it's to dangerous to let him live. Sad story but this horse maybe would have killed himself and anybody around him one day. I have seen him running / jumping against a wall of the barn. Horrible.
your trainer is wise.@@esmewetterwachs7462
Da'gum Ol Son, you had me at the intro video! That was some good watchin! The last two buckoffs I had I was just as smooth, then I woke up. Had a headache and some broken ribs from something.
You gave it, but as we all know, and you have learned and are basically practicing it, way too many good ones out there to be messing with the dinks. Canners! Oops, can't say that anymore. Alpo is looking for qualified help.
Thank you, im glad you enjoyed watching because I didn't much care for the doing myself. Alpo is looking for qualified help, I love it.
There's too many good ones to feed a bad one
and that big sucker could eat.
Some just ain’t worth the effort.
There’s a fine line between tough and stupid. It takes experience to be able to see it.
Iv been both in my life
You have way more patience than most. This is truely example that breeders should pay attention to ...Pretty is as pretty does".
Momma always said... lol love it
Good ride. I’ve done the same thing, tell the owner they can’t ride the horse, and I’m not riding them any more either. With 20 million horses in the US, get a good one that is willing to at least try.
for sure.
Good ride, way to stay with it! I agree, some horses don't want to be riding horses. Thanks for sharing
thank you
Wise choice. Time was I would have tackled one like that but that was almost 60 years ago. There were plenty of that kind to get on and some who of us wanted to show what they could do. I got over that in a hurry. There were better ones to ride. Read CMR’s story “ A Pair of Outlaws”
One of my favorite stories. I know it by heart but I still read it all the time.
pretty badass video dude. thanks for sharing this kind of information.
thank you and you are welcome.
Fascinating video. You always have observations about horses that I've never heard before. Question about this horse: you talk about him being frightened when he sees you out of his right eye. How much of his problem was that? The eye thing. I would have thought that was fixable. So what was it about life that he didn't get?
Thank you for showing something that didnt work. Most others on YT just wouldn't have posted the video
Yeah it was a little spooky doing so but I like to show the real world. Glad you liked it.
I appreciate this video so very much. I have had to let horses go and you start out thinking maybe I will have a Ray Hunt moment and really make a good tough using horse and putting myself, the horse and others in danger just is not worth it. Thank you.
you bet. Ray Hunt moment lol I love it.
There's too many good horses in the world to have to deal with horses like him.
That is what I said
I should have waited until the end of the video to comment. The problem with taking him to the sale is somebody could get hurt or killed by him. Years ago we had a couple slaughter facilities in the state to get rid of horses like him.
I made sure he went where he should, I know a few people.@@woodsgremlin9995
I dont know if you read my book or not but he went to a buyer I talk about in it.@@woodsgremlin9995
I think Gus said the same thing to Captain Call.
We agree, some aren't worth it. Your music choice was spot on!! :D
props to the producer, I just ride and talk but Ill pass the word on. Thanks.
there was music?
Great music!
@@barrynelson634
good music. I keep a mariachi band next to the round pen.@@barrynelson634
Not every horse wants to be a professional saddle horse. That simple.
very well put. Im going to steal that phrase
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArtfeel free!
Holy cow! What a ride! You could be a rodeo bronc rider, and win big too. Poor horse, he doesn’t know he blew his last chance. Glad you didn’t get hurt and thanx for sharing. I really enjoyed the ride!
Im sure glad you liked it. I was a rodeo rider for some time, winning big means maligning better decisions than I did in my 20's. That horse still has a chance, I found him a home being a professional bronc.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt
That is great news! So glad all went well for you and the horse. You are an amazing trainer. And I am a new sub. Now let’s get back to work! 😁
Can I at least break for lunch? lol Glad you liked it and welcome aboard!@@4hoofs4ever007
Great video. I agree with Cody...you still sticky. LOL Horses are like people, a few are simply incorrigible. Ride the good ones; tank the bad ones and life is better for all. Thanks for the bronc ride...don't get to see that much anymore. Keep up the good work.
I dont get to do it much anymore thank God! Im glad you enjoyed it.
Yes, I wish that I was 50 years younger. So many nice bred horses to train today.@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt
Just wondering, where was the whorl(s) on the bay?@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt
First video of yours I've seen, and i subbed immediately i can use all your material
I'm 68 and been training horses my whole life..
From what I seen that horse wasn't ready to ever put a foot in the strip..
Ground work is pretty important.
If it would have been done right he'd a had control of that horse..
It just easy to give up and take a good horse to the sale barn..
Im not sure if you heard in the video but that horse had been with another trainer for 60 days, the owner wanted to know if he could go to riding him, the answer was no. Could more ground work do the trick? Maybe maybe not.
Good work, sir.
Thanks.
Wow more followers more comments I guess. Thanks for sharing Brett. Solid 80 points
Thank you
Cowboy stuff right there. I am glad you decided he was never going to work out. You are too valuable to risk getting hurt on one that will never amount to anything anyway.
I dont know about to valuable but dang sure to lazy lol.
Excellent 👍
thank you
Nice looking horse, is he done or is someone else going to give him a shot? After reading the comments on possible causes I would like to see if anyone else can have success with him.
He was nice to look at. He found a career in other fields.
There's a physical issue for sure. He looks like it's a lot of work to go around that post. A healthy, sound horse shouldn't have that much trouble. I'm thinking it's in the neck. Many explosive horses have neck issues, and this horse's difficulty going in small circles and losing his mind when asked to bend to the right seems on par with a neck issue. Could be something else though...kissing spine? Maybe PSSM? It'd take some digging by a competent vet to know for sure. And then there is no guarantee it'd be fixable. I'm a firm believer though that the majority of "crazy" horses are simply horses in pain. Some are stoic and shut down and just soldier on. Some...not so much.
My thoughts exactly. Horses do not possess a frontal lobe,per se, so they do not have the capacity to "plan out" bad behavior or any real abstract thinking, they use (what there is of a frontal lobe) for voluntary movement...there is ALWAYS a reason for a behavior...Years and years of "fixing" "broken" "Unsafe" horses has taught me that.
I can't disagree with most of what you said and he may have been hurt, we will never know because the owner didn't want to go that route. I will say you would be amazed how many, especially big horses that have no pain issues at all have that much trouble going that small around the post. It is really eye opening just how much they compensate for balance when you start using the post. I find a lot of horses can't even correctly lope around the outside of that 60 foot round pen because they can't balance.
There is always a reason and its nearly always us.@@loryspencer8215
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt I wouldn't be amazed at all, most of the horses I've ridden have been 16+ hands, including those that I've started under saddle. It's hard enough for a young horse to canter around in a full-sized dressage arena without losing its balance. It takes a lot of strength and flexibility for a horse to move in balance in a small area, and they aren't born with that because horses aren't designed to run around in little circles. It takes a lot of time and careful training to help a horse find its balance and to be able to balance on such a small circle (even the 60 foot round pen). A green broke youngster who has been sitting and doing nothing for awhile certainly shouldn't be expected to be balanced in a round pen. I hope this horse's good looks land him somewhere other than a processing plant. I know "pretty is as pretty does" as they say, and I do believe there definitely ARE some horses that aren't worth the effort (I've known three in my 36 years in horses), but it'd be nice to see if this guy's issues could be fixed via some vet attention and perhaps a different approach to restarting him. Not faulting you. Your program is what it is, and this horse doesn't fit it. It sounds like his owner is done trying. I get it. They cost too much to feed to have one that won't cooperate. And dumping money into vet diagnostics is not cheap venture either.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt It irks me that so many potential pain or communication issues are overlooked or flat-out ignored. Patience is a virtue, it's only fair that we are clear with our intents and take the time for them to be physically and mentally prepared for any given task. Animals are sentient beings. Brute force and pushing are often the go-to with disastrous results, and a shut down horse.
The horse wants to be a rodeo saddle bronc. As long as he doesn't quit, he could be worth more money than he would ever be as a riding horse.
true dat. He can kinda buck
Had one identical a couple years ago. Really well bred Pepto Boonsmal breeding looked a lot like the horse in your video actually (maybe they are related?). What's his breeding? I think I mentioned him to you awhile back. Spent four years of my life trying to break him. That high head when you were saddling him looked so familiar with one leg cocked (coyote for sure). My horse also wouldn't turn to the right although he would tail to the right just fine. Damn sure could buck and run off. He was dangerous so I shipped him back to the breeder in Big Sandy Montana (not to mention any names) because I've had 5 out of 6 good horses from them. Sometimes they are just born with a screw loose. I got into 3 wrecks with him so I sent him to a younger trainer (thought maybe he knew I was past my prime) and he kicked his ass also after 90 days of training so I knew it wasn't just me. I had him vet checked and two chiropractors look at him. All said he was physically sound. Sometimes we have to drop our pride and send them down the road. Wisdom should come with age (I'm 66). He's the horse that I started wearing a hockey helmet and bull vest with. Still do when I start them. Good to see that the real deal (meaning you) also meets their match here and there. Really good ride cowboy!! Better velcro butt than me for sure.
Thank you thank you. There was a time in my life I would have hurt me and the horse trying to win but I outgrew that. I dont know how that horse was bred but I know Peptos are known for being hard to be around. Good idea with the helmet and vest, iv got 16 years left before I get to that I guess. Cheers and thanks for the great comment.
26 yrs@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt Hadn't heard that about the Peptoboonsmal lines. The ones I have heard tales about being random buckers and bolters came from Hancock lines, but clearly a bad mind can come from anywhere.
Those poor ol Hancocks have a bad rap in my opinion, I have rode a bunch of them and while I never liked them they were all ok. Of course they dont have a bad rap for nothing so maybe Im just lucky lol.@@jimmyyounger618
Good call on that horse, acts like he may have been exposed to locoweed at some point. Strange one sided behavior hard to fix when their brain wont let them think right.
he felt like a locoed horse or some neurotoxin
"felt like a locoed horse"?? Is that actually a thing? What do you mean? The ones that feel like they have a loose screw or a worm in their brain?@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt
There is a plant that grows in the western United States that range people call Loco Weed, I dont recall its correct name but horses that eat it become addicted to it very quickly and will search for it. It does neurological damage to the brain that never goes away and gets worse the more they eat. Generally they seem ok until they get there heart rate up and then they act out in strange ways. Some go drink from places that have no water. others eat rocks and sand, others buck and run off and fall down.@@emilylewis7642
enjoy you videos ... all I ever started was 4 , 5 , 6 year old types and this one didnt act ant different .. they all turned out just fine ...
I have started a lot of four five and six year olds myself and they are not supposed to act like this. Further this horse had 60 days as a long 2 year old and acted like this so I think it was him.
Maybe try covering that eye with blinkers? No bad horses in my view. Just me nobody else. Great work.
thank you. Im sure that or a number of other things may have but im not a problem horse guy, just a horse guy. In the end the client wast interested in long term fix it stuff. Thanks for the comment.
You are an expert, but I am still wondering if another type of training would have helped. Some horse (mine) hates going in circles and will rebel. I trained her by following other experienced horses on trails. She is great with other horses, and getting better on her own.
I would never put a horse on a walker. It is deadening and an insult. If a horse bonds with you, it will change behavior- I like natural horsemanship, walking your horse, trails, etc. IMO
Im sure a lot of things could have helped but I knew what the owner expected and what he was willing to spend etc. If you had twelve head a day to ride and they were all in stalls you'd love the hot walker. They actually really enjoy going on it.
Doesn't even matter if the horse is in pain. That's beside the point. Still not ok for horse to hurt or kill human. So sick of that being an excuse.
Thank you for stating that
I am certain that the folks in France will be pleased with your wise decision. He sure was a pretty horse. It seems your "friend" was not entirely honest with you when asking if you would get him straightened out. That's just my take on it.
Sad to see a gorgeous horse going to slaughter. Why not give him away?
@@cromana5574 Because a horse like that - beautiful or not - is going to kill somebody. He is not worth a person's life.
Good thinking Brett. Pretty sticky to id say.
Just because I was scared lol
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt that'll do it.
@@dylaningle3113 every time
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt life saving mode.
@@dylaningle3113 yep, my normal mode lol
I find it interesting to see a pro like yourself show where "the limit" is. You could make 5 finished horses in the time it would take to fix that one. Thanks for showing a video with one that didn't make it. there ain't always a happy ending.. I like the comments down thread about "a pair of outlaws" One of my favorite collections of short stories. Quick Question: Did you do your "Tres Pasos"?
Well Ill be danged, I ay have missed them. I doubt I did but we didn't cut the film so maybe. I am glad you enjoyed the video, I wanted to show some real life stuff. In the CM Russle reverence I am not sure who the outlaw was, me or him. It used to be me but now days???
When THEY go Left,, I Go RIGHT!!
I try not to lol
Slick ride Bret
thank you
that was great
Thank you
thanks mister.
Thank you.
Practicing our trades
Poetic disappointment
Powerful life lived
Sounds like Josh Billings. I like it.
Thanks for sharing that one! Very interesting. Curious, do you have any idea from your experience what would have caused the horse to want to look to the one side over the other, and to seem to have that fear of seeing you from one side and not the other? Hopefully that question is worded clearly enough lol
Good question. There is a horse in the left eye and a horse in the right and you can't count on the one on the left telling the one one the right you are coming.
Is that like some kinda modified serretta you're using here?
Yeah, my version of a serretta or a Portugees cavesson. I made it in the shop one day when I couldn't get anything to feel the way I want. You are the only person who has ever noticed and mentioned that.
I find that beings the chain articulates some and conforms to the shape of the muzzle it translates well to the hackamore I start them in which is coreless .
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt Is there a particular reason why you use a coreless hackamore? Some years ago I had extensive conversations with a good hackamore man and braider about a double pencil bosal, 2 bodies 8 plait square braided without a core. I braided me one but haven't had a chance to use and try it yet.
Real dea! They aren’t all created equal_ it’s a hard thing for the Karen’s to grasp
true dat
I am wondering if you laid him on the ground and try that method.
I laid him down
Damn fine ride brett
Thank you.
That horse needs a trip to France.
lol
Thanks, I'm thinking I may have one like this but he's 10. He's just a punk.😢😮 Bummer.
real bummer
Thanks I have a unbroke runaway good idea. I'm a girl and my horse has draft in her can't hold her. So now I have to dig a hole for the pole. Treat her to the pole and round and round she's a mustang not reg.cocolate palinino deal sweet just runs off thank 6 yrs. Old first time any ones done that just do more and two bridles one bit less. And emergency stops tight circle s when teaching her to stopp and canter stop go 20 minutes a time and rest to think and you do have lunch❤
yep
I have a mare like this. She had bolted through fencing, ripped roped out of my hands constantly. I have done months of ground work with her, it has only fixed the issue to a point. Idk what to do with her I have gotten second third opinions, all with the same results. She is a little cow bred QH. I’m at a loss. Considering euthanasia for her
I love my animals and would always give it hell trying to fix the bad ones. Over time I have gotten better at saying no to taking on basket cases but that’s because I have failed to fix a few and the sadness of having to put them down and the danger that they put everyone around them in is not worth it! There are so many good ones out there that need help.
In my experience if you are considering it then its the thing to do but you haven't talked yourself into yet.
I agree, my biggest fear on this horse is that one day she could possibly bolt loose and end up in the street and cause someone to hit her and get seriously injured. She will run into or through anything in her way for reasons that I cannot see. Something is wrong with the horse I think and I rarely will say that
Id suggest getting rid of her
@@emilylyons3352
Hijole! Did he ever try to hook on at liberty in the round pen?
He never tried to do much that was good.
Better that he gets put down than make it to the meat barn.
He didn't get put down, he found his calling as a rodeo bucking horse.
Nothing like a good horse hahahaha
lol
Schizophrenia is about one percent of the U. S. population in humans. Horses who knows. A horse can’t tell you what’s bothering it. And a Veterinarian may or may not can help. It’s been a long time since I’ve had good horse. I’ve had some nice ones but none moved correctly. I did have one as a kid that horse looked after me.
?????? Did I mention schizophrenia? I have a good friend that is Schizophrenic and every horse in the world loves him.
No I sometimes think some animals have mental issues. If an animal can have physical issues… @@HorsemanshipAsAnArt
Might need to check his teeth or jaw... send him my way I can fix him
Turns out I am also an equine dentist and I looked, he was fine.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt Since your a equine dentist maybe you can help me out! How much do you charge? How far are you from Texas? I have a bad tooth or 3 & my wife calls me a jack... for over 30 yrs! Sure love your honesty, opinions, thoughts and most importantly your time putting these videos out! Be safe and Thank you sir
That is soooo sad to just give up on a horse!
Well he wasn't exactly "just given up" on. If you recall he had been tried by another for 60 days and by myself for two weeks. We found him a job he likes.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt oh did he ‘survive’ ? 🙏
yeah he is fat and happy as a car riding dog@@PersonalTriumph2022
At 8:17 you mention that he is not upset about being saddled and standing quietly. But I have to tell you when my horse has one of his ‘spells’ he is standing quietly with one hind leg cocked and the head raised up like this one was doing. And that’s a sure sign (for my horse at least) that he is very tense and ready to blow. So I wonder if this horse was just ‘keeping it in?’
obviously he was lol look at the result.
Agreed- he was very 'bracy' while saddling. Not relaxed at all.. head up, hallowed backed. Kudos for getting on him. I personally wouldn't have. Glad you weren't hurt in the whole fiasco
not as glad as I was@@lisaweinberger4197
I think Bret knew that but at some point one must get on. There’s only so much groundwork one can do. There’s such a thing as too much groundwork where the horse learns that’s all there is, especially a young one. The sooner they understand the whole job the better. He had to step on sometime. There’s no argument to this. For whatever reason this horse wasn’t made for a riding horse job. Period. I think the bigger point is gratitude for the video so that the rest of us can recognize this kind of situation and appreciate a trainer willing to help us learn the whole story. Thank you! And…..good ridin’!
Ride cowboy, ride. Nice little weekend ride. Glad you rode him, not me :) . Stay healthy!
Thank you! I didn't really have that much fun but Im glad everyone likes it and I dont limp worse afterward.
Has he seen a vet? Maybe he has a screw loose or maybe he’s in pain.
I think he might have been in some pain but a reaction like that! I hurt to but I dont act a rouge on account of it. A horse that will pull that over being sore will also pull it for any other reason.
Do you pony any at all
Yes some.
He,s uncomfortable,cocking both hips while saddling.need to find out what ails him.
Oh no doubt he is uncomfortable. I think I found out what wrong with him hes a bronc lol
Ryan rose can fix this horse..call him..
I don't think Ol Ryan want any part of that horse. Truth is a lot of people could "fix" this horse but I am not a problem horse guy and the owner wanted a good horse not a "fixed" problem horse.
What the hell are you people talking about, "bad horse"??? If I got on 18:44 the horses I start without first laying a foundation of how to ,stop, turn, and back up and without anything familiar and relaxing to look at in a seemingly, (to a horse), pointless circle while being tortured and over-controlled and then ridden with stabbing sharp spurs 5hat are cruelly givig commands the horse has never felt or learned previously, I would have a lot of bad rides also. This horse is actually a good boy and very patient. You could have been going along so well and continued to be calm and relaxed if you hadn't pushed him so hard and if you hadn't sat still on him so much. On the first day started horse, the correcting to do isn't always to sit still a lot. Keep them moving keep them walking them from exploding the horses need to move their bodies to dispel physical tension or encumberments. If you can keep their feet moving so their mind will be engaged then th😊😊😊😊😊 18:44 ey have a chance to actually relax. Sitting on him at a stand still or just barely moving controlling him with commands that he doesn't understand is going to build mistrust , resentment, and an explosive or spooky horse. Horses get into trouble when they stand still or you try to make them stand still. Once they are moving they tend to feel more natural and comfortable. I don't know why you people think that this horse has then thoroughly started 4 started properly at all. If I were that horse I would try to Buck you off also. It is plain ridiculous for a trainer not to have bothered Building Bridges with the commands which they were asking the horse to respond to before they get on it. You, sir, must only train quarter horses. You stay in the saddle well and appear to have an experienced way with horses but to me it looks like your eyes are still closed. Most other breeds would not put up with that kind of crap training. Please forgive me for being blunt I do respect your horseback riding abilities. My advice to you would be 3 things: number one, how dare you give up on perfectly good horses when you have never even given them a chance at being properly trained? Number two, lose the hideous Spurs what the hell is wrong with you?! Is not appropriate to wear Spurs on a first-day breaking in a horse because that's definitely going to make him freaking not like you or the experience. Horses like to have fun be comfortable and enjoy themselves. Those inconsiderate Spurs are making that not even possible and giving that horse is very poor first opinion about being ridden. Way to ruin horse right from the start! Number three, give you a horse some freedom for goodness sakes! Turn him loose while he bucks the hell out of the saddle instead of over-controlling him. All that control is going to do is make him resent you and think that you're causing his experience to be unhappy. Let him figure it out with the saddle without torturing him at the same time, and also let him experience without you being involved with the negative side of this but controlling him around the arena as he's experiencing the discomfort of a saddle you are only shooting yourself in the foot and diminishing any possible remaining respect or Trust that lovely and good horse might've felt for you or wanted to feel for you. 4, send them to somebody that trains Arabians. They'll be more in tune with a highly intelligent and sensitive horse like this one appears to be. I'm in Hawaii but I'll take him if the owners want to pay for the shipping. He will be returned back as a child safe well-behaved who thinks people are good and also obeys and respects them, (the rider or humans in general as the alpha, or master.
I guess you didn't listen that well, that was not that horses first day, he had already had 60 days with another trainer and my job was to see if he was worth the effort financially for the owner, he wasn't.
Do you think this horse was started wrong, too late in life, or just doesnt have a good mind?
I think he was just bad minded
Did you tie his head to his tail?
Yes I think so lol
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt you can tie a soft rope with a snap to a hackamore or ring snaffle. Works pretty good most of the time. You let it loose then get a little tighter depending on how they take it . Better than pulling on them 1st time when you are in the saddle. It’s good ground work for about 2-3 days before you get on ... Learned it from my old man he is a pretty good ole Texas Cowpuncher and has worked with some good show guys. Learned a lot from John Hoyt
@@tannerrichardson3979 Yeah I tie most of them to the tail and have since I was a little kid. The only reason Im not sure if I did on this horse is because he had already been ridden 90 days by another guy and I wanted to find out if this horse was worth putting the money into. John Hoyt was a hell of a hand. Thanks for the advice.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt I see now … yes sir he sure was
@@tannerrichardson3979 I piss head? Yeah
Thank you for putting it out there that not every horse can be fixed. No horse is worth your life or risk being crippled up forever.
I'd like to see his papers. I'd just about bet it's a case of line breeding that didn't work. Around here we call it inbred when it goes wrong. Imo many of those screws are a result.
Btw yes you are still a pretty good bronc rider ❤
Thank you. I can still ride them but I dont crave it anymore. Funny you mention that because when I called the owner to tell him I was chicken feeding the horse he said "when line breeding goes wrong". Good call
I wonder to about his breeding. Seems like a Hancock bred horse.
I dont know how he was bred but I dont think he was Hancock, I was told he was line bred cow horse. Who knows?@@lilmissstfu1126
@@lilmissstfu1126 Hhmm I doubt it. Hancock horses tend to just be broncy when you let them sit, but otherwise decent brains. Typical of many bloodlines that were bred to actually work for a living, with the exception of the skipper W horses. A lot of them were just plain screws without line breeding added. Double up on skipper line, get that life insurance paid up.
I've always had good luck with peppy, Doc bar and wimpy horses. Can be sensitive, but sane with a good work ethic.
@@HorsemanshipAsAnArt Hhhmm, I'm seeing a good number of the HB cat horses bred too close that are just plain screwy. These days cutters are often referred to as cow bred so that would fit.
His stance tells me his is aware but not relaxed....head up. He is watching......and he is not accepting but poised....
He is smart....got a bad start and is hot to handle. He need intensive redo!!
great job Brett
thank you
Did you ever contemplate that maybe it was a pain issue? Maybe a 1/2 dose of Bute would have given some insight into a problem that wasn't the horses fault?
This has been asked by others and I darn sure did question that, however even it is a pain issue we can't except that reaction because the nest little ouch will cause the same thing. Hands down he was a dangerous horse. Good insight on your part but if you had been around him you would have never questioned this issue any farther than I did.
Too bad, nice looking gelding. I know it's not your "problem", but has he been looked at by a Veterinarian for possible neurological or pain/health issues? The Veterinary Tech in me always wonders about possible health-related issues being at the root of "Behavioral" issues....Well sat, BTW...looks exhausting
I was exhausted. He never got looked at but Im pretty certain it was not a pain issue, just a gut feeling from doing this a long time. End of the day the owner was not the kind to go that route. Good insight on your part.
Horse has a problem,,shoulder?
Brain
With one like that I wonder if someone in the past started him profoundly wrong and really scared him.
I know the guy that started him and he is a good hand. He sort of felt to me like the other guy hid from the bucking and created the run off. Who knows?@@laurence1643
Thanks so much for sharing. I currently question my goals on my 10 year old double whorl mare I started at 4 years old from Blm. She’s great at almost everything until those moments she isn’t. She warns me and we just stop for the day but got her for my wife who is not as competent as I am. My wife likes her as a pet. But has only ridden her a few times and I don’t push her to do more because I’m just not sure about her. This video helps me in my conviction. I like the horse but l like my wife more.
Good call@@henri8a
wisdom or pain
lucky for me I only got wisdom out of this one
Glad it went that way
not as glad as I am lol@@jackkrag
Haha no shit.. never had a really B ad wreck till I was 50 and thought I was still bad ass. Humbling.. best to you sir. k
Thank you@@jackkrag
It's a shame such a nice horse has been so poorly started. It takes a second to get a horse in a bad way and absolute days and tons of patience to undo!! I bet he has not been desensitized with a rope or flag either! Take him to Ryan Rose....
Ha ha ha ha this sucker would eat poor Ryan
@adavis1989 I disagree. This horses problems are from the ground......he was put under saddle before he was "even" tame. If you watch Ryan with the Mustangs and then watch him with J Lo you will see what I mean. Ryan is a specialist in reading a horse with problems. This horse is not mean...he has not charged or bitten. He can be saved and be valuable! He is too nice to throw away! Ryan trouble shoots the base issues.
Well I guess maybe I should give ol' Ryan a call, I might learn a thing or two about getting around tough horses. Thanks for opening my eyes to my own ignorance.@@donnac.1609
Now that! Is hilarious! @@HorsemanshipAsAnArt
haha yes he sure would! I have to agree with you on that! No offense to Ryan, but he isn't half the horseman you are. @@HorsemanshipAsAnArt
Hey Bret, I have a question that I think you might have some insight to, do you have an email or some such that I could reach out to?
Davistraining83@gmail