Wow! Thank you to everyone who's liked, commented, and subscribed! It really means a lot!💜 Edit: OMG thanks for 100+ subs! You guys have blown my mind!
Bizarre youtube algorithm brought my poor wife here. Now she's upset that she listened to a lonely, miserable harpy rant about how much she hates children & mothers and have a tantrum about seeing them depicted. So thanks for that. Child-haters don't deserve to be "taken seriously".
I had no idea this was such a small channel - your video was well made and the the topic was interesting - just as good as anything I might find on Hello Future Me.
@paulsoldner9500 the decision to not be a parent doesn't mean you "hate children", or deserve to be insulted by those that do. And if listening to an opinion other than her own made your wife upset, then she should come out from under her rock more often, so that the mere existence of the 99.9% of the world that isn't her doesn't cause her such distress.
I get that "legacy" is a silly argument since you can only control how your kid turns out so much, but implying only those who monopolized wealth and status are worthy of procreation is kind of terrible take. Considering the inbreeding effects on health of said babies.
I agree with the overall thesis of this video but Katniss having kids is not solely because Peeta wants kids. The reason she did not want kids was because of the hunger games and the awful circumstances of her upbringing. Her having children shows how far her society has come and her belief that she and her children have a future. She feels safe enough to do so now. I think it is ok to change your mind as circumstances change as well. But I do agree that many of the other choices on the list do play in to idea that everyone needs to have children to be fulfilled. Cece and Nigel should never have had children.
yes this!! women are allowed to change their minds. there's a content creator who seems to swing so far one direction. there was an episode of a show where a woman wanted her baby, was pregnant with her baby and wanted to keep her baby. there were health risks. he kept insisting she should "get rid of it" and and couldn't understand why she'd want to be a mother in the first place. and it's like, being pro choice is being pro CHOICE. the woman's choice, whatever that may be. a woman is allowed to have kids or not have kids. to change her mind on the subject of kids. she's allowed to make her own choices based on her reproductive health. it's like there's this mindset that if a woman changes her mind and chooses to have kids or something, then it's automatically a decision she didn't make and it kind of takes away the agency and voice of the woman and her choice to think that.
Also Katniss loves children! She basically raised Prim and she's so sweet with Rue and she takes care of Gale's younger siblings too. It makes perfect sense that when circumstances changed she also changed her mind.
Didn’t Katniss basically say that she never wanted kids, but that Peeta pressured her into it enough to eventually give in? She ABSOLUTELY only had kids for his benefit, and was super vocal about not having kids in the previous books.
@@Hailey_Paige_1937she didn't want kids at a time when the world was in termoil because she didn't want them to grow up scared and with the horrors she faced as a kid. but when the world was calmer, safer she was absolutely open to it.
another reason sitcoms give pregnancies to everyone is actually... because it's another plot point. when a show runs for multiple seasons, they need marriages, breakups, deaths and births to make it more interesting, to the detriment of the characters
@@Hjominbonrun but they are not the ONLY parts of life. Why cant we have characters that have good jobs that get promotions and go off on exciting trips with their friends to see new places and try new things? Why is it alwas the same boring life path with ALL the characters? Why cant some break free of the norm? Its just repetitive, depressing and dull because all it says, is this is what normal looks like and that to me means, normal SUCKS.
@@dunjica77 "Legacy" is defined as the long-lasting impact of particular events, actions, etc. that took place in the past, or of a person’s life. Can you look at that and tell me that children are not part of that? A legacy is certainly not all that a child is - obviously. However, it is undeniable that whatever else a child is, they are also a part of their parents' legacy, for good or for ill.
@@amcmahon134 Yeah. And we both know what is meant by people treating children like their “legacy” and it ain’t in the finer points of the dictionary entries.
Then there are the people who have a kid, then regret their choice to do so... but they don't tell anyone about their regret because people might think they're a terrible person. I don't hear too many people saying "you might regret that later" to the people who want to have kids.
My besties mom would tell her “I only had you bc your dad wanted kids, I never did” and it deeply negatively affected her, she got diagnosed ptsd this year. If you don’t want kids don’t have them or you’re just going to hurt and damage them!
THIS. Parents *_always_* tell young people how having children completes them, how great it is, etc...then when they have a kid and are completely overwhelmed, the older parents go "Hs ha ha, yup, welcome to the club, say goodbye to sleep and life as you know it." Like.... that's not commiserating, it's blatantly manipulative. They never tell anyone about the really bad parts of parenting until it's too late.
@@omnipotentfaces1514 Same goes for anyone who stays in a bad marriage "for the kids". That screws them up so, so much. The kids always know, and all it does is normalize loveless, toxic relationships so they go on to grow up and repeat the cycle.
@@omnipotentfaces1514 My mother told me the same. She told me when she found out she was pregnant (especially with twins), she thought about "falling" down a flight of stairs to get a miscarriage. It scarred me for life. The nurses in the hospital I was born in thought it was strange that when we came out of her, she refused to touch either one of us. My grandmother told me that story. My mother was abusive towards us our whole life as a result. Aside from that, both my mother and grandmother told me horror stories about their pregnancies.
What bugs me is that it seems to me like writers don't know how to write about people being childfree by choice and/or single by choice and still make the character themselves relatable or interesting. Coupling everyone up and giving everyone babies by the end of the series is such an overused cliche, and it perpetuates this narrative that THAT is the only way for things to go. Not everyone wants to be married or to be a parent, what's wrong with that? Having a partner or a kid doesn't automatically make people more interesting and doesn't increase their value, both in real life and on television.
I started losing interest in The Big Bang Theory when Sheldon, of all people, suddenly had a girlfriend and then everyone starts getting married? WTH? I haven't seen the last two seasons so I didnt know Penny got pregnant but thats just a major downer for what, started out at least, as an interesting and unusual sitcom about nerds.
Totally agree.. the scene where Penny 'confesses' to Bernardette she doesn't want children, and Bernardette (a 'former childfree' woman herself), belittles her in the most out straight condescending way, telling her she doesn't know what she wants.. it's just so painful to watch!
@@starscreamthecruel8026 Agreed. Once everyone started getting married/pregnant I felt like the writers had gotten lazy 😑 I really felt like making Sheldon and Amy a couple was unnecessarily forced. What's wrong with 2 people keeping a relationship strictly platonic?
@@Aja-Christian That would have worked better for both of their characters instead of assuming that Amy had a thyroid disorder(which is how it came across) that made her a closet nymphomanic.
@@starscreamthecruel8026 I thought Amy would have been better off with Raj. Sheldon could have kept one or two of the cats. The Big Bang Theory went way downhill when it became about the eomances.
I am in the camp of people who wants to be a parent. That said, people who don't want to be parents should not be parents. It is mind boggling that society pressures people into parenthood who have no desire to become parents. I feel sorry for any children raised by unwilling parents.
I agree with that. And people calling child free people "selfish" for not having kids is ridiculous if u ask me. If anything, choosing to have kids even under circumstances that aren't the greatest is selfish to me. If someone hasn't healed from all the things they've experienced in their childhood and doesn't have the means to raise a child, there should be no reason they should be trying for a child. Choosing not to have kids is the more selfless option, really. Not bringing people into this world for whatever reason is actually makes more sense than knowing all the risks of having kids, being unsure u want them, and having them anyways.
@@lavender4658 Child-free people are not selfish, it's the self serving, blind, brain dead bastards who don't have to take responsibility of anyone else's kids when things do fuck up and are obsessed with judging than helping or undertsanding that are truly selfish
I agree, knew someone who was assaulted as a teen by an abusive partner and ended up pregnant. I can only assume that societal pressure was the reason she didn't decide to give the kid up for adoption, since the partner went to jail for a couple of years when the kid was only a couple of months old. Thing is I've seen the way she treats that kid, and it's not good. Hell, she even went on to have another one with some other dude for who knows what reason since she seems to hate being a mom. Not to mention that even outside of that she has a lot of baggage, bit on the emotionally stunted side you know? It's a shame because she's very much a career focused woman, puts herself and her wants first. If what happened to her back then never happened, I don't think she would have kids. But now well... You know how it is for woman with kids.
@@handlenot030 You obviously didn't grow up in an environment where one or both of your parents didn't want you. Even when they do their best, you feel that you're different from other kids whose parents did want them. My parents were great - but Dad really wanted kids and Mom definitely did not. Mom ended up as a SAHM for 20 years anyway to make Dad happy, and while she was heavily involved in volunteering at our school, anything to play the role of supermom, I feel as though it was either a way to distract herself from how much she disliked her lot in life or as a way of possibly assuaging any guilt she may have felt about her cold mothering. We get along great now and they're still happily married, living their nice quiet life in the country with their cats. But from my experience, there's absolutely no way to fully hide from your kids the fact that you didn't want them. I'm 33 weeks pregnant with my first child and you'd better believe I was sure about having her - not just that I wanted her but that I knew I could be the kind of warm and loving mother I wish I had.
I would love to have children, either biologically or by adoption, if I meet the right man, but The Big Bang Finale even rubbed me the wrong way. Penny had previously said she didn’t want children, and it was clear how upset she was when she first learned she was pregnant. They either shouldn’t have taken her character down that road in the first place, had more than a few scenes in the finale dedicated to it, and definitely should’ve introduced the plot line before the series finale if they were going to introduce the pregnancy at all. Heck, a conversation where she changes her mind about wanting children would’ve been preferable to having her be pregnant when she still wasn’t sure she wanted to be a mother.
I honestly don't get why they never had Amy or Raj have kids. Amy literally tried to combine her DNA with Sheldon, so both on some level do seem to want kids. And as for Raj, just my opinion but he seems like the type of guy who'd want to be a dad.
Bernadette was a much more egregious one to me. With Penny, I could see that maybe a lot of her issues were due to her dad being disappointed that she's female. Bernadette specified that she raised her brothers and sisters and didn't want it again, but it was a incompatibility with Howard. They should have just broken up.
I’ve always wanted to be a parent. However, I just can’t manage it. My girlfriend & I discussed this. We both love kids. But we both agree that with all of our disabilities lack of energy we would be happier if we just have each other & a pet. We would both be good parents, I truly believe that. But we wouldn’t be able to care for each other & ourselves properly if we did When my mother said “you’ve always wanted kids, you’ve giving up your dream.” I said “sometimes what you want isn’t what you need. Yes I love children, but I have found a life that makes me even happier than the life you wanted. This is just what I needed”
As someone with chronic fatigue and other health issues, I think you're making a sensible and moral choice here. Some things aren't always manageable, especially with everything that goes into raising a happy and healthy child
Feel very seen by this comment; I'm not disabled but I do have really bad mental illness so while I think I'd like a kid sometimes I know it's just not right for me.
@@EllieC130 I’m so glad I can help you feel less alone with this. My partner & I both have physical disabilities & mental illness as well. I understand how painful it can be at times. Regardless though, I hope your life is full of contentment. I hope you can heal & live the happiest life possible for you
@@ieldore thank you. More than anything we want to break the cycle of abuse & neglect in our families. & I take comfort in knowing that this decision still achieves our goal.
My situation is similar. Sometimes I feel that having a kid would be nice, but I suffer from chronic pain and fatigue, so even if I somehow manage to take care of them for the first few years, after a while that kid is going to have to take care of me, much earlier than usual. I don't think that's fair for them.
I think this trope is also common because few people (especially on TV) want to explicitly state that abortion is an option. When you have childfree people encountering an "accident", the show indirectly implies that "well, you're a parent now so suck it!". It's not just that being childfree is treated as immature or silly, the idea is also peddled that if you get pregnant (or get someone pregnant), you should "grow up" and stop being childfree whether you like it or not. This is what angered me about the Big Bang theory; Penny didn't want kids, but abortion/adoption was not given any serious consideration (if any at all).
Crazy Ex-girlfriend is the one show that comes to mind that had the guts to not only consider abortion a valid option, but to have the character actually go through with it. Even Sex and the City, a very progressive show for its time, chickened out of the abortion choice.
This is what I really liked about Greys Anatomy and showing Christina actively choosing abortion twice, even though the first pregnancy got ahead of her XD
@@rootedinland6823 oh I was going to mention Crazy Ex Girlfriend ! What I liked about it is also that they did it with a woman who already has two kids, showing that aborption is not only something for "young and immature women who sleep around without getting protected" as it is often portrayed (most of the times when I see it is portrayed, it is often a teenage girl who get it cause "I'm too young for kids", never a woman who is in a situation where she could be raising the kids, but don't want to).
I agree with everything but Katniss, she stated very clearly that the reason she did not want children was because of the hunger games. Once that is gone, she can make the choice of what she wants without thinking about the posibility of her kids being part of a battle royal.
Nope. It's never explicitly stated that she changed her mind, plus it's clear in the ending she hates her life and both she and Peeta are not coping well.
@@WobblesandBean I would say it's more respecting that both Peeta and Katniss were hurt in a way they will never fully recover from. They are moving on and having moments of happiness, but they are still hurting and that's very real to life. Sometimes there is no 100% recovery, but that doesn't mean you can't move forward and live a life worth living. And just to state it, you can 100% have a meaningful life without having kids.
@@WobblesandBean What? I absolutely disagree with that. It's not clear in the ending that she hates her life. She is traumatized, as every child of war is. But she clearly states that Peeta is the right person for her, the sunshine to her darkness, and she's on therapy (mandated by law and required for her legal safety, since she commited a severe crime and therapy is probably part of her "punishment", instead of going to jail). The ending is not happy because it's true to what happens in a war. Katniss won. Her side won. And that's how the WINNERS in a war feel. She didn't fight for glory, riches, a country, a god or freedom: she just fought for her family, she just wanted to take care of a sister she had taken care of as if she was her daughter, and for her to survive... The reason why the ending is bittersweet is that Katniss won a war and found glory, riches, democracy for her country and freedom... all things she never wanted to fight for. What she fought for, though... But, her and Peeta not coping well? They are coping very well All Things ConsideredTM.
@@WobblesandBean Did you read the book? She's traumatised, as anyone would be, *_but she's moving on._* From her interaction with kids and people in the books and the movies, it's clear that she is a caring and loving person. The way the book describes it, it seems clear that she isn't "child free by choice", but did not want children or a family in such a horrible world, *which should be understandable to anyone.* Having a family is for her a symbol of how the world has changed, and how she can now feel safe enough to have what she wanted without fear of it being ripped away from her like it had for so many before. I think that even at the start of the story it was made clear that she wanted to be happy with the friends and family she had too, but that the games and the capital was a source of endless misery ruining the future for everyone. That misery stood in the way of her ultimate goal, which is why she decided to fight in the first place. She volunteered as tribute, because without her sister and with her father gone too, she would only have her mother left. She couldn't sit idly by and watch her family be destroyed, and the ending really underlines how important family was to her. Despite the wounds she suffered, she found help to heal in Peeta and her family. That kind of ending is not for everyone, but IMO it is very right for Katniss as a character.
I did like how they handled Robin not wanting kids in HIMYM. She never started really wanting kids, her sadness came from not being able to. Cuz I like that it showed someone can not ever want kids and still be upset that it's no longer possible. There's a big difference in being childfree by choice and having the option taking away by circumstances beyond your control. So it was nice that they let Ribin feel that emotion.
I guess that could happened but I’m childfree and I had to have a abdominal scan once and they were like we can only see one ovary (which of course may make pregnancy harder). I literally said out loud. “Don’t worry about it, I’m not using them”. They found it in the end with a different scan but I was not in the least bothered.
Yep! Robin wasn't upset cause she changed her mind, she was upset at the lack of Power and control over herself. Choosing to not procreate when you are fully capable to do it ia very different from not being able to. So, I guess in her case that were the issue.
I think it’s more about feeling disempowered and for a woman it can feel like you are lesser for not being able rather than choosing not to - which sucks and I disagree with but is totally real. My bestie while always hating kids, from childhood trauma and gender dysphoria, had to come to terms her child would inherit a severe genetic problems she lives with too and thus she didn’t think it was moral. But it still rocked her and made her feel really low even though she doesn’t actually want them.
Another example that was handed terribly is Simon from the "Bridgerton" TV show. He didn't want children because he was abused by his father (which is a totally valid reason), but he later changed his mind because of the power of love, as if his trauma was no big deal. Not to mention how his wife pretty much forced herself on him to make him ejaculate inside her to prove a point. That scene was so uncomfortable to watch... As someone else mentioned, I only disagree on Katniss' point, since she changed her mind due to the circumstances around her. In that case, she seems to fit the "childless" category, not "childfree". Either way, great video!
I took it as him actually wanting children for himself but not allowing himself that because it would please his father which is why he promised him not to have any
@@AN-sm3vjyeah, that was beyond fucked up and i also stopped watching at that point. It's so clear the show isn't willing to admit raping a male character is morally abhorrent and without excuse.
this was one of the grossest scenes I've seen in a long time because of the way it was brushed aside so easily like she did nothing wrong. even if he did want kids but didn't want to cum inside her right then and there, that would be wrong! so the added layer of her trying to force him into fatherhood is just abhorrent.
And the main problem with that storyline (other than Daphne sexually assaulting him) is that we don’t even delve into the reasons why he wants to not have kids other than stating it out loud. The season tries to play it off like the reason Simon doesn’t want it is because he thinks he incapable of being loved. Well if that’s the case, then why not delve into that? Why not give him closure on the whole thing with his Dad? Why not have Daphne show him (in a non predatory way) that if that’s the real reason he doesn’t want kids that he can be loved and give love back. Trauma with parents can absolutely play a part in why someone may think they can't give love back or ever be loved, which explains why Simon is so cold and dismissive with people because he doesn't want to be hurt again. These are valid points but there is a way to make them come across without your male lead being sexually assaulted into having a child.
I agree it was awful. If they wanted Daphne to discover he was lying to her and get pregnant than they could’ve just had her get pregnant bc the pull out method is not really effective. Maybe she gets sick and doesn’t know why until she talks to the maid where she realizes Simon was lying to her saying he can’t have children, and Simon learns the pull out method isn’t fool proof. Then you can still have them talk about having kids, Daphne can try to understand and alleviate his fears about being a bad father bc his own was so bad. Or if it’s not out of fear but the spiteful oath he made to his father not to continue the line. Then either Daphne or Lady Danbury cold tell him that by doing things or not doing just to spite his father he is keeping his father's memory and influence over his life alive and well.
I actively pretend that episode doesn't exist. Amy had agreed with Jake on waiting until they were ready and then did a 180 in that episode and it was so gross. The rest of the show was great, but that one episode sucked
Bilbo and Frodo Baggins in Lord of The Rings were child free. Neither of them ended up married or had children of their own. Eccentric odd ducks as far as most of the other Hobbits in the Shire were concerned. Sam, Merry, and Pippin all ended up married with kids of their own (if one reads through the Appendices).
@@brialapoint2608 Sam and Frodo were besties, but Sam also served multiple terms as mayor of Hobbiton. He did not go back to merely being Frodo's gardener.
I totally agree, in fact I think she and Howard shouldn’t have married at all when she revealed how much she disliked children to him. That’s not something a couple can compromise on. And I hated that Penny was pregnant at the end too.
What really bothers me about Big Bang Theory is that it went from a truly original, clever show about geeks to a "let's all get hitched and pregnant" romcom cliche. It seriously became one of the most damaging shows in sending the message that no matter how adamant a woman is that she does not want kids, she must not know her own mind. Or maybe we simply don't care as a society about what's in her mind... She must be impregnated regardless. Then there was the disrespect shown towards Sheldon's asexuality. I loved Amy, but the idea that she and Sheldon would ever have a physical relationship was just too absurd. And once again, you are dehumanizing a character (and the audience) with the message that society knows better than you, and any professed difference from mainstream norms is an "immaturity" that must be corrected. What a massive disappointment that show turned out to be.
@@automnejoy5308Agree with everything you say, but I think the main problem is that TBBT (like many other sitcoms/shows) greatly overstayed their welcome. Try to write a show for 12 seasons when you are out of ideas at the end of 7. It just got worse and worse as the writers kept throwing stuff at the wall and see what stick. Personally. the only sitcom which went on for 10+ seasons and I still felt worth to watch was modern family (by no means perfect, but at least somehow fresh). On the other hand, hats off to B99 execs who managed to quit while they were ahead.
@@blackest3314 Yeah, I remember people complaining about how TBBT was going on and on when it probably should have ended around season 6 or 7. The reason Modern Family could still feel fresh is because you had the development of all the kids. There were all kinds of storylines for the transition of each of the kids to adolescence and then to adulthood. It's really hard to do 10 seasons when all the characters are adults from the very beginning... especially when the charm of the show is that they are single geeks. But it's understandable the writers didn't know what else to do after all that time. I mean, it wasn't realistic that they would all just be single forever more. Some of them would get married and have kids. It's just that the viewer didn't want to see much of that with these particular characters. And with some, we didn't want to see any of it.
I’m not sure I agree about Katniss. From her conversation with Gale, I got the impression that she couldn’t even let herself think about it because it wasn’t an option and she was focused on taking care of Prim
Also she really liked kids, she mothered her little sister, had good relationships with Rue, Gales brothers... And stated at the end of the last book that she was not sure, not that she didn't want them. She mostly hated the possibility of putting another little human through the trauma she endured.
@@Pirates.27I don’t think her feeling responsible for her younger sister after her parents were no longer able to take care of her implies she likes kids all that much. Many people who are childfree and don’t like children had to raise their siblings. Katniss is a part of this trope because she ultimately only had children for Peeta. If Peeta didn’t want kids they would’ve never had them.
The movie is not very clear about her point of view, but in the books she's very clear that her reason not to become a mother is that she's scared that her children could end up being tributes for the games when they're old enough. She doesn't end up having kids just for Peeta's sake, but because without the Games, she starts to trust the future, although both her & Peeta suffer from PTSD their wholes lives, needing constant reassuring from each other that everything was gonna be ok
Thank you for making this video, I have never wanted to have children and am sterilized. I went through a period where people almost insisted that it was my duty to have children, but it's important to know that it's just a phase. I am 41 years old, and I am now free from having to listen to that anymore.
It's largely stopped for me too, I'm 34. Then again, I was lucky; my family gets it (they didn't really want kids either but here I am 😂) and I've surrounded myself with friends who also get it. The last time someone said "Oh, you may change your mind one day..." was a couple of years ago, a new friend. I just said, "Please don't say that to me." She apologized and never brought it up again, and we remained friends until she passed.
Was so on board the entire video. THEN you mentioned MADAME. And I got out my seat, hands in the air, silent screaming in agreement and approval and I absolutely love her and you. You made my night. 😂
THANK YOU for saying it. I'm so goddamn sick of seeing myself in childfree characters, only to have them bouncing babies on their knees by the end of the series. No, we aren't freakin destined to be mothers, we don't need children to feel fulfilled, and we aren't going to suddenly change our minds one day.
Exactly!! Penny was literally one of the most relatable characters I've seen, even more so by the fact that she didn't want kids. But god forbid a woman not want to have children 🙄 of course she accidentally got pregnant and magically changed her mind and everyone has kids in the end 😊🙄
There seems to be an underlying trope that any female character that doesn't adhere to the classic housewife stereotype of settling down and having kids will inevitably get turned into that. It's not just about kids, it's also about starting a family in general and the job taking a backseat. Like how Elliot on Scrubs started out as someone practically married to the job but ends up leaving medicine behind entirely, and the series ends with her being on maternity leave. I know she always showed some interest in raising a family, but it still feels weird.
To be fair, its shown Elliot didnt necessarily want to be doctor but it was expected of her, so its not completely out of the blue. She probably likes its enough but she even tells Turk in later epidodes the she doesnt know if she wants to work as a Doctor forever, its makes sense in her arc where she becomes more secure in herself and figures out what things she wants in life
Thank you for talking about this, as a childfree person and a tokophobe, I've always felt personally insulted by this trope. Especially since it taught people that they can shame and dismiss my choices and my fears.
particularly when you remember the flashback of her and her current bf in the toilet with a pregnancy tester and how overjoyed she was, when she learned she WASNT pregnant. It doesn't fit her mentality at all.
I never wanted kids. Did not want them when I was a little girl. Did not want them as a teen or even as a young woman. At 32, I am not even sure why, I changed my mind. Happy mom now. BUT, I also hated that ending for Penny. Because they put so much emphasis on the fact that she did not want them. They devoted a whole episode to this. We saw nothing about her changing her mind. So, we just assume that she is now happy about an accidental pregnancy? No way. That was just a cheap stunt for the finale.
It’s funny that Sheldon was the only one to bring this up, even though his reasons for doing so were mostly selfish, the fact that he didn’t congratulate her was because he didn’t think she wanted any.
I stopped watching when it was revealed to the audience (the scene where she and Leonard were alone talking about it). I've not gone back to finish the finale, either.
My husband and I are happily childfree. We just never wanted kids. I personally don't really like kids. We have 3 beautiful cats, lots of free time, and extra money for great vacations. It's really disappointing how few childfree people are represented in movies and tv. The only childfree couple I can think of are Gale and Dewey from the Scream movies. If anyone can lead me to more examples I'd love to hear them
@@kachnasierpniowaOh true. It's too bad they didn't have anyone else be childfree. Even Nellie, who was a great character, of course ended up wanting a child
I love every episode of B99 but always skip that episode as it makes my blood boil. Not just because he is pressured into it, but because honestly it doesn't fit either character. Jake previously said multiple times he would be a dad one day, and Amy never mentioned it before, if anything I assumed Amy didn't want kids as she's so career focused. And she's so organised that there's no way it wouldn't have come up before as part of her life plan. It would have made much more sense if Amy was on the fence, especially with the end being Jake who gives up his career to look after the baby.
A great exploration of an exhausting trope. The thing I have problems with in B99 is how Amy never discusses whether or not she wants kids with Jake BEFORE they get married when they are 37.
what irks me with Jake is that it's so easy to handle his shift from no-but-maybe to a strong-yes. It's a nice take on how this manchild is a good father rather than just a "fun" one. The ingredients are all there. Show him being really good at babysitting while Amy looks at him fondly, have him look longingly at happy families or even just saying it outright, have him make numerous continuous comments of "well if I become a dad" "if my kid" "if I had a kid" "that wouldn't happen with my kid" etc. Put the hints far from before the issue of children is brought up, frame it clearly as him wanting to be a father but being held back by his trauma. Throw away the debate scene entirely and just have a genuine conversation from the get go. I genuinely think he'd be an amazing dad, but the way they write him into one is just odd :/
honestly, even if they hadn't previously built it up, "Casecation" could've been replaced with a subplot of exactly what you described - Jake subconsciously expressing how much he wanted to be a dad (and certainly a better father than his own) but not being able to consciously express that without being held back by his trauma. the ending of the episode is Jake realizing that not only does he want to be a dad but that, more importantly, he is capable of working through his trauma to be the kind of dad he wishes he had. bada bing, bada boom! if they really wanted a quirky debate scene, they could've had one where the stakes aren't _Amy and Jake's literal marriage._ maybe the debate is instigated as a way for Jake find out whether he's ready for the decision at last. it'd still be weird that Jake and Amy might not have talked about having children before, but at least this would reframe it as a "wait and see" kind of mutual agreement as opposed to Amy just taking it for granted that Jake wanted children.
Yeah, that's what bothered me about it too, not necessarily the "childfree to parent" trope, because this technically isn't even that. The whole "Jake not wanting kids" thing came out of nowhere.
When people get into the “you’ll change your mind” argument with me over my stating I don’t want kids, I’ll usually respond with “I’m NOT ABLE to have kids” and then let them feel bad about pushing the subject. (It’s technically true. I’m a child free Ace but I don’t have to tell them that part.) I do love kids but I’d rather be like Joey from Friends. Live down the hall from my close friends who are happy with their children and lend them extra help.)
I remember watching a show with this trope. I pointed out to my parents how I relate to a character. She is a woman who doesn't want to have children for financial reasons and emotional truama. The show ended with her having a baby 🥲 her financial struggle is still a thing and she still has emotional baggage. My mother pointed at the TV and said "see it will change once you have a baby" I was just sat there screaming on the inside
That perfectly illustrates how powerful media is in affecting society and how people think. An audience of millions is watching, absorbing and forming and re-enforcing values and beliefs based on what some biased, ignorant writers decided to regurgitate.
As a teen I thought I wanted the whole marriage & at least one kid. As I got older I realized I like living alone & having my freedom. Now, my nieces & nephews are my children & they're all I need. I have the best of both worlds.
@@alexndg5260 Like I said, my nieces & nephews are my children. So, no I'm not lonely and I have a loving family that is going to take care of me as I have taken care of them. Also, I have traits I wouldn't want to potentially pass on to offspring that never asked to be born into this crowded, sometimes judgmental & unforgiving world. Also also, some people shouldn't bare or raise children. I'm responsible enough to know my limitations.
6:55-7:05 To me, it seems the problem in this situation is the season long build up of her deciding to be child-free, getting everyone on board, including Leonard, then writing her getting pregnant by blaming it on the alcohol. It's a weird cop out to what was a good, serious storyline in a comedy.
It also casts Leonard in a negative light, who up until that point, at least had some decency when it came to vulnerable women but now, oh no, hes gonna take advantage and get her pregnant else it wont happen. ARRGH!
@@starscreamthecruel8026 The whole thing is just a huge bundle of absolute YIKES. Neither Penny's or Leonard's characters ever deserved to be done THIS dirty.
It was a BS plotline to introduce into season 12 just for the sake of creating more drama. You’re telling me that a couple that has been married for several years and dated for years prior to that never brought up the idea of having children? Especially when Leonard had expressed the desire to become a father? And I’m sorry, but the idea that Leonard took advantage of his drunk wife is an excuse women make to completely lets his drunk wife off the hook for being irresponsible with birth control. And it’s not like this was going to be their first sexual encounter: Leonard and Penny were a married couple, and Penny was definitely a willing participant.
@@54raynorDisagree about your last point. The reason people say it paints Leonard in a really bad light is fairly simple. Based on the dialogue, Penny arrived home drunk and wanted sex, they had unprotected sex. It implies they use condoms, which is fine, not everybody can use hormonal birth control (am one of them) or want to use it. Because Leonard was sober, it was his responsibility to either refuse sex if Penny didn't want condoms (cause she was drunk and so couldn't really consent to unprotected sex) or make sure to wear one, because he knew she didn't want kids and he was the sober one, so the one with enough clarity to make decisions. Instead, it's written as Leonard having no agency in the decision, him being basically "well you arrived home and wanted sex, what was I supposed to do", which is just bad writing. If they truly wanted to write Penny being pregnant, they could have chosen the condom to fail and Penny deciding she's ok with it. Or a scenario where they were both drunk and just had an unprotected sex, cause drunk people aren't known for smart decisions. The way it's written now, you can't call Penny a willing participant, because her judgement was impaired and it was on Leonard as the sober one to make responsible decisions. I also personally don't like the whole "have unprotected sex one and bam, you're pregnant", cause it's actually not that easy usually, but that's a rant for another day.
@@PetraP01 translation: it’s not ok for Leonard to be negligent in a moment of passion, but it is perfectly acceptable for Penny to be reckless at any given time. I could be wrong about this, but I’m pretty sure that Penny has been on birth control in previous seasons of the show. And even if she was not, there are other non-hormonal forms of birth control (IUDs, for example) that are far more consistent and effective than condom usage. There’s also the (riskier) option of getting her tubes tied, which is never given any consideration in the show. Instead, we are led to believe that Penny’s preferred form of birth control is reliance on Leonard with condom usage. And I’m sorry, but that’s either incredibly selfish of Penny to put all the responsibility on him or it’s evidence that she wasn’t actually certain about not wanting kids. Considering she never brought up the idea of not having children until season 12, I’m leaning toward the latter. And yes, I would still call Penny a willing participant. She was drunk, but she also does not debate that she initiated everything. And we also aren’t taking about a one-night stand: Leonard and Penny are a married couple who have been together for years. People get careless in the heat of the moment. And sometimes, that carelessness results in a pregnancy.
In Grey´s Anatomy, Meredith explains how is life after been raised by a woman that didn´t want kids and I find that absolute on point. You can "convence" a woman to keep the baby, but you won´t be able to force the love for that child. Wonderful video, I hope to see more from you soon!
I'm a bit of a contradiction. I am childfree and single, with no intentions of marriage or fatherhood, ever. That being said, I do have a soft spot for children, and desire, more or less, to be a godfather. I do love my nephew and niece. I tend to sympathize with children a lot because I can remember what being a kid was like. I grew up with some awful adults and I want to help empower children.... with stories and books (I'm a writer in working progress).
I get that it seems like a contradiction, but this mindset is quite common among childfree people. A lot of childfree people love spending time with children, maybe even helping raise them and love helping out parents by babysitting or supporting them in other ways. They just don't want the parent role. But the childfree aunt/uncle or grandparent-like role is also very important and valuable. Raising children is a huge (time- /money-/energy- consuming) task, almost any parents are extremely grateful for help. Directly or even indirectly in smaller ways.
Im child free but that doesn’t mean that I hate children. I have a total of 5 nieces and nephews that are my everything. I love and take care of them like they were my own because they are literally my world. 🥹💕
I think that actually makes perfect sense. Some people have the preconceived notion of "So you don't want to have kids because you don't like or care about them" which my response would be "I don't precisely because I do". I'm painfully aware of the money, psychology, health, support, general risks and responsibility it takes to have children because of personal experiences. I would be very concerned if I *did* want to have kids despite everything I've learned.
@@artlover5060I think the preconceived notion exists because of those who are very vocal about how they’d make bad parents because they don’t like kids and/or don’t want the responsibility. Sadly, it paints a picture to the general public that all childfree-by-choice people have the same mindset. Really the only people who know different are parents who have personal friends or family members like you. It’s another example of how social media distorts perceptions of reality, unfortunately. 😞
I always knew I didn't want to experience childbirth/motherhood, but I also used to think that if my hypothetical future husband really wanted biological children, I would likely concede to have just one. But over time, I noticed, whenever there was a fictional relationship where one character wanted kids and the other one didn't... it was always the one who initially didn't want kids who would change their mind. And then there's real-life society as well, with its amatonormative expectations of making a nuclear family being The Normal Life Path. And I wondered, why the heck do I have to be the one to change my mind? If the opportunity ever arises, I'd like to create a story where a couple with differing opinions decides to be childfree, instead.
Making a character have kids is a sign that the writers don't know what else to do with them and are making too much money to stop the show. Honestly, that could be an arc or an episode all on their own. A character seeing their friends and co-workers start to have families and wondering what their place is and how they're going to make up for being child-free, only to realize that they don't need to fill a "void" and they don't have to justify their decision. They can live for the sake of living and not for a theoretical life.
The Owl House also has great examples of child-free adults. All of the adults that aren't introduced as a character's parent are explicitly or implied to be childless, although Eda and Darius do take on parental roles and King officially adopts himself as Eda's son
Finally a video about this. I hate how often this troupe is used, in a way it feels like the message "you might think you be happy childfree but here let me convince you its not that way and it works"
What irks me the most about this trope is that they say things like "You'll understand once you become a parent" or "when you'll have kids it will come to you naturally" as if parenthood is automatically installed in someone's brain when their kids are born. Parenthood is not automatic and it doesn't come naturally, it is a hard learned skill. Parenthood isn't instinctive, even people who babysat, love kids and who wanted to become parents all their lives will struggle. It's really annoying and insulting when they portray it as this easy peasy "just get pregnant and the rest will come on its own" thing
My favorite trope is the reluctant father adopts weird little outcast. (Witcher, mandalorian, last of Us, pretty much all of pedro pascal's characters). This gives me a different perspective on that trope but I still love it.
Someone referring to themselves as childfree is always hilarious to me. It's such a sad term... like taking pride in being alone... reminds me of the body positivity movement where people are encouraged to take pride in their faults
@@alexndg5260 not having children does not default to being alone. Also, choosing to be alone isn't a bad thing. Not everybody has to find a mate and reproduce.
I think as a woman, unfortunately someone (well, usually other women, sadly) is always judging us for our life choices as it comes to family. You're basically not allowed in society's eyes to be happy single, it seems. Whether you decide to have children or not, someone wants you to justify the decision. If you have one child, people - particularly older women - always ask if you're going to have more, or the bolder question of when you're going to give your child a sibling. But you'd sure as hell better not have more than three kids, because then people are going to tell you you're personally responsible for destroying the environment and overpopulating the planet. My bottom line is there's no decision that someone won't judge you for, so I might as well opt out from worrying about it. And besides, how I decide to structure my family life - or even whether my family is comprised of anyone else at all other than myself - is no one's business but my own. For myself, I'm pregnant with my first child. I might have a second eventually, but whether I do or don't is nobody's business. Same goes for any woman who is childfree whether by choice or circumstance: it's a personal decision, period.
@@Ad1nfernumConsidering how much of society's problems that are blamed exclusively on white men, I don't think you can complain about that kind of stuff anymore :/ At a certain point, you need to recognize this
@@Ad1nfernum Women/Femmes literally can't do anything without getting flak for their actions, so a lot of childfree/relationshipfree women/femmes such as myself have decided that the only way to not lose the game is to not play at all. Best of luck in motherhood-you'll need it.
This videos great. You missed Bella Swan - which truly pissed me off. Bella never wanted kids having parented her mother her whole life. Then all of a sudden she was willing to DIE for a baby. I guess the only silver lining was the revelation that her child was going to reach maturity (and basically have no choice about having sex with a werewolf) by age 7. But this series (while I love it in a weird way) has many faults.
I think we should also take in consideration how obsessed she is with Edward. I don’t think she thought of the baby as a complete different being, but as a result of her and Edward's love that she doesn't want to lose. Although I don't like how you talk about Reneesme's and Jacob's relationship
I do believe that a lot of feelings towards being childfree can change with age or more importantly once you fall pregnant. Not wanting to have children is one thing but not wanting the child you do have is another, so I can see how she changed her mind. Also she was probably very hormonal and some motherly instinct kicked in
@@gildahobbs8829 I believe that wanting to be childfree is mostly about reservations relating to raising kids. Pregnancy is only a determinant for a very small group of child-free people, especially if they're adults.
It was a several-months-long torturous slog for me to get through the first book, so I didn't bother with the rest of the series, but from what I've heard about the Twilight series as a whole the plot has so many bizarrely unsettling details that I actually see why so many people (still) enjoy it so much. In a way, it really does remind me of the Hazbin Hotel Minecraft content farm channel that features, among other things, all of the voices clearly done by shitty AI, outdated character models, Minecraft sets that look nothing like the sets in the show, extremely random and vulgar "plots" that consist of the currently 5 characters (Alastor, Charlie, and Angel Dust were the only 3 characters in these videos for a while, then Husk was introduced, and roughy a week ago Niffty joined the extremely bastardized versions of the team) constantly abusing and creeping on each other while swearing so much it makes the actual 18+/TV-MA show sound fit for preschoolers, and extremely oversexualized clickbait thumbnails that blatantly lie about the actual content of the videos. The most common plot themes of this channel's videos include Alastor desperately wanting to fuck Charlie (in canon, Alastor is not only super-aroace but also someone who NEVER uses his conventionally-attractive looks or charm to get what he wants beyond smiling constantly, which is honestly fairly unsettling to watch-also, in canon, Charlie is in a entirely-monagamous relationship with Vaggie who for some strange reason has yet to be even mentioned in this content farm channel's videos even though she is the show's deuteragonist, which Alastor fully respects because he doesn't see Vaggie as a serious obstacle to his goal of getting more power and freedom by being Charlie's highly infuential adviser), Angel Dust constantly being horny and desperately wanting to fuck Alastor (in canon, not only has Angel Dust immediately backed off from suggesting that he and Alastor do sexual activities together upon Alastor's refusal both of the only TWO times Angel has ever expressed ANY interest in doing so-and keep in mind that both times Angel was clearly motivated by outside factors, such as getting paid as a sex worker or making advertising that attracts Sinners to the Hotel, but also by the end of the season Angel is visibly becoming a more gentlemanly, "softer" person as a result of relaxing his mask/"show persona" of being brash and extremely flirty/sexually suggestive), and both Alastor and Charlie constantly demeaning Angel Dust and calling him homophobic/queerphobic slurs which neither of them has EVER done in canon. Literally the entire existence of this channel is blatantly disrespecting everything about the Hazbin Hotel IP and everyone who has ever worked on it, but the videos are so shoddily written and made with such an extremely poor understanding of Hazbin Hotel's plots, characters, settings, and themes that they manage to be entertaining, of only in the most brain-rotting and downright offensive ways possible, to a decent number of genuine Hazbin Hotel fans including myself. In short, I very much understand the enduring appeal of the Twilight IP despite it being so heavily flawed.
I'm so happy childfree people are coming forward about this, I'm 17 (I'll be 18 this year) and ever since I made the decision of not wanting kids, my family are always like "you'll change your mind when you're older" or try to explain to me how genetics work like bro, i know how it works, they taught us about it in the 4th grade! kids are a huge responsibility and are human beings like the vid said, not just legacy or just tiny human beings you get to boss around or emotionless robots (most people forget that) , I don't want the burden or responsibility of having a kid, that's final
People often think you can't make important decisions because you're young. I also decided at 17 to be childfree. I'm 25 now and guess what... still childfree. The older I am, the more I stand by my decision. Don't let the stupid comments "change your mind". If you ever change your mind (very unlikely, if you're secure in your decision) it has to come from you. Not because other people told you to. 💜
@@missythesitposter2280if you guys decide to stay child free that is a total valid decision, but I can’t tell you how many people I know (being in my 30s) changed their mind later in life. It happens to a lot of people, but either way your decision is yours to make.
@egrace7707 This often happens because people like to confuse "I don't want kids now" with "I don't want kids ever". My mom used to say to me: "I didn't want kids when I was your age either. I changed my mind." so I asked: "And did you mean like... that you NEVER wanted kids ever, or did you just not want them at the time, but it was clear to you that you WILL want them in the future?" She confirmed for me that it was the latter. And this is also the case for many of those people who "change their mind" in their 30's. Hope this explains it enough. 🙂
@@missythesitposter2280 fair enough, but I also know people since high school that swore they never wanted kids and are now starting to change their mind on the topic. My point is just because you think you will always feel a certain way about ANYTHING, doesn't mean you will. Its okay to change and grow. And its also ok to not change your mind as well.. The important thing is that you do whats right for you!
@@melaniegrace7707 Sure, I agree with that. Some may change their mind for sure. But when it comes to me personally... If I thought there was ANY little chance that I would change my mind... I wouldn't have called off 2 weddings because of it. But yes, it's okay to change your mind on anything. What fits best, fits best. ☺💜
David and Patrick from Schitt's Creek. David never wanted kids and when he thinks Patrick does, they sit down and have a mature conversation where Patrick says that having a kid was just one dream, and now he's got a different dream and it's his life with David, and then the series ends and they still don't have kids. Probably my favourite TV couple. (Not because they're gay like would be most peoples reason, they're just cool.)
@@aleksandrac9335I'm sorry, but what the hell's wrong with you? "Oh I don't like this person so it was a good thing they were basically raped/coerced into kids, they deserved it", that's how you sound ffs. Have some ounce of basic decency and realize what Daphne did was terrible and was a horrible storyline from the writers.
Another thing in HIMYM that I thought was pretty anti-childfree and breeder propaganda was the episode where Barney starts a holiday called not-a-father's day. Later on Barney is shown hanging out his a groups of guys who like his holiday idea. But it at the end it calls back the episodes beginning joke of the cheerleader effect showing that all the men who joined Barney's holiday appearing to be ugly, nerds, and/or losers. Implying that men who are childfree are by circumstance because they can't find suitable partners due to their appearance. On a different note, did anyone else find it strange that Robin couldn't find any other guys who are childfree and valued independence especially in New York city, a city known for having citizens that are career orientated and having different norms.
yes, and I also found it strange that she felt so sad when she learned she was not able to have children. It's like, they needed her to remain childfree for the arc of the story, but there was no way she was going to actually remain childfree throughout her life unless she had a medical condition.
@@mahivivt I agree, I found that super weird too. As someone who, like Robin, is very clear about never ever wanting kids, I would be extremely happy if I ever found out I physically can't have them. It just didn't make much sense for her to cry about it.
@@mahivivtIt wasn’t that she was sad that she couldn’t have them. She was never going to change her mind. She just hated that at first she was making a choice all her own and know she felt like she wasn’t MAKING a choice for her anymore, it was being made for her. And that’s typical of human beings. We want to exercise our freedom of choice not just go along with something because we HAVE no choice.
Depicting New York City with actual accuracy by showing Robin actually find multiple childfree guys she was interested in (who would want to date her back) would have actually given credence to the idea that (male) childfree people can be perfectly attractive, successful, socially adept, well-adjusted, and dateable-and as we all know, we can't have THAT in a show meant to appeal to Middle America!
April having kids in Parks & Rec bugged me to no end. She never showed the slightest interest and made a comment in an earlier season that she didn't want kids to her husband. And yes, both Bernadette and Penny--neither wanted kids. I actually stopped watching the show when Bernadette got pregnant. Back in the 90s, I hated that Darlene Connor, who also never wanted to have kids ended the original series of Roseanne by having a baby. And then in the reboot, where they retconned so much of the show's 90s finale, they still had her be a mom. Surprisingly, Becky was the child-free woman and yet suddenly, she decided in her mid-40s she wants kids and then has one. There is even a sub-plot of Darlene trying to get pregnant even though she clearly didn't want another child in middle age just to please her partner.
I agree with all of that! And let's not forget King of Queens. It was ridiculous, honestly. Not so much that Doug and Carrie ended up wanting to have a kid. I could accept that, even though it felt forced since neither seemed to have the slightest interest throughout the course of the show. It was that the writers showed such disrespect for the adoption plotline. They adopt their baby girl and it's a happy ending. Then the writers did something disgraceful, which is that they had Carrie suddenly get pregnant. So the message the writers sent the audience was that adoption doesn't cut it. You must have a biological child in order to have a true happy ending.
@@automnejoy5308 they did that with Charlotte too. Why couldn’t it just end with the adoption. Some people can’t have kids and adopt them and that is fine.
April and Andy having kids is for sure the main issue I have with parks and rec. The writers got so caught up in the notion that every couple must have children, and they seemed to forget that really both April and Andy are very irresponsible people, and probably shouldn’t have kids. I also thought it kinda sucked that near the end of the show, they became “more responsible adults” seemingly just so that the writers could then give them children. I always loved April and Andy just being a pair of wacky people that just live to have fun in their own ways, and I think it was a big mistake to have them become “normal” for the sake of children.
If I remember correctly, Katniss didn’t want kids bc of the games, so her able to have them is a good ending to the story. I agree with everything else
I also hate the trope that a pregnancy changes a person. Cobra Kai and Girls are some examples. I think it would be a lot more interesting to see the characters go on a journey of fixing themselves.
I grew up in a protestant Christian environment where children were always treated as an inevitability rather than a choice. It wasn't until I met my Catholic girlfriend that I learned that it actually was a choice. When I learned that, my analytical brain kicked in, and I realized that there are a plethora of reasons why I wouldn't make a good father, at least biologically. My reasons are based on my genetics and concerns about what passing them on would do to the kid who ends up with them. There are also temperamental reasons, which is a factor that can change, while my genetics-based reasons can't.
I am Chatolic (once I was really into religion, fortunately not anymore now) and not wanting children it's considered a sin... Once I wanted a lot of children then I grew up, took distance from the religion, thought about myself and understood that I don't want to become a mother... Is not really a matter of protestant, chatolic or whatever... actually I don't think that there are any religion who support the idea of "choice"...
@sarynamagicfantasy9409 I brought up the religion of my girlfriend to highlight the incongruity of a Catholic who doesn't want children. They bake a promise to have kids right into the wedding vows with the line about accepting the gift of life.
My married friends often envy me my unmarried childfree life ... and I wish that we told the truth about having kids. It is a 24/7 365 job ... you don't get breaks ... there's no sick leave ... and most don't even get vacations. You lose years off your life from sleep deprivation. Your life is overtaken ... if you're a woman your body is NEVER the same ... it's exhausting, infuriating, frustrating ... it takes every ounce of your will-power ... you have to keep going when you're sick, when you're tired, when you are at your end ... you can't just leave ... you can't quit. And if you don't LOVE those kids and LOVE being a parent ... it SUCKS. And I know people who don't like being parents ... and I think we all know lots of people who were raised by people who didn't like being parents. Parenthood and children are the world's biggest and oldest conspiracy. And we need to be more honest if we want to raise better humans.
People also like to act like it’s only an 18 year job. “Have kids when you’re young, cause then when you’re in your 40s you can go out cause your kids will be grown!” Like, no, it’s not an 18 year commitment. It’s a rest of your life commitment. Which is why I hate people who use that to tell women in their 20s that they shouldn’t enjoy themselves and their free time or their expendable income. Acting like you can just come back to it in 18 years. Which is absolutely not the case! My friend and her husband are waiting to have kids, and bc they’re currently DINKS, they take cool trips a few times a year, and I love that for them.
To be fair, about the biggest and oldest conspiracy, it was only pretty recently in terms of human history that we had any kind of real say in the matter. And we’re in a much different place numbers wise than we have been in the past, in terms of total population and childhood mortality rates. So it’s much easier to even adopt a childfree mindset than it would’ve been at other points in history.
What this trope also doesn't consider is that many people have children because their parents want grandkids and they believe they owe them. It would be interesting to see that depicted in media.
That thinking and reasoning makes me so mad, having experienced this in real life. I’m single, and on-the-fence, but my dad and stepmom act like I OWE them grandchildren. My dad even going as far as saying he wants me to have 3-4 kids bc he wants a lot of grandkids. Like sir, if you wanted a lot of grandkids, you should’ve had more kids. I have one sibling, and the likelihood of either of us having more than two children on purpose, is slim. Being raised with one sibling, I think two is a good number. It’s a 1:1 ratio. And my thought process was always, how much is college going to cost in 20+ years?! But the fact that he thinks he can tell us how many kids we should have makes me laugh. Like the angry, bitter, crazy kind of laugh.
Sigh, it's a very familiar laugh. The audacity parents can have is still so surprising! Makes me mad too. I'm the first born of 4 kids, I'm 30 now and my youngest sister is 18. I've known since before she was born that motherhood is not for me. My mother still believes that it's a phase, lol a 20 year old phase. My partner and I both grew up with dogs and decided we're better off aa the fun auntie and uncle with a pair of goldies.
@@elise85391 The worst part in my opinion is how they always say they only want what's best for you. And when you were a child and teenager, that they were sacrificing themselves out of love for you. As an adult, you realize you were not an object of love but an investment. 😤😔
@@elise85391my father used to do that🙄have at least 3 kids and I should hook up with a black guy because he wants 'coffee colored grandkids'🙄 called me 'selfish' and 'sick' for not wanting any kids
@@Pomoscorzo I fortunately didn’t really experience that, but I am so sorry that you did! It’s really awful the way some of the older generations had kids for selfish reasons!!
Claire Fisher from Six Feet Under is also a great child free character. Granted, we mostly see her from the ages of 17-22, but the show demonstrates that she never has kids and along with her chocie to terminate a pregnancy in season 3, i think, shows her as perfectly satisfied in life focusing on her photography and connections to her family.
You’re 100% correct about Cici in the Nanny also with the amount and ways she’s spoken about her own mother there literally no way having a baby would all of a sudden wake up some sleeping material side she was “repressing”
What changed Bernadette's mind on having kids? I dropped the show long before it ended; but, I vividly remember her explicitly stating her hatred of kids and never wanting them due to her childhood stuck raising her siblings. And that disappointed Howard. So.....what happened?
As you can imagine, Howard immediately told his mum about Bernadette's decision before talking to her, so there's that. In one episode where Howard was acting overly affectionate due to something going on at his job and she complains about it, he "shoots back" at her by saying she made them have a baby whenshe was taken off a project- very spur of the moment. So all in all, it was not her actually changing her mind (at least not rationally).
@@evemoon8741 If I'm reading this correctly, she just.....up and decided to have a baby? Because she needed something else to do or whatever complications happened due to being taken off a project? Just unceremoniously dropped as a hand wave?
Yeah. I saw it more as he learned to care about children instead of being mean to them, but not that he wanted to be a dad. I am childfree and I love children and am quite good with them. People often see this as a confusing contradiction and can't understand it.
@@Evamarie41 Yes exactly!! Alan went from disliking children in general to realising that they were their own people, and by the end he genuinely cares for Lex and Tim. But that doesn't automatically mean he wants to be a father - just that he doesn't mind kids now jsd;fkhsa;ldfhs some childfree people don't like kids, and some do!
Let characters care for and even mentor children without going full parent!!! Plenty of childfree people still like kids just fine, they just don't want to have one around 24/7.
I’m also someone who’s known that I want to remain childfree since a young age (12) and have never wavered. I haven’t watched most of these shows, but a big offender that made me simultaneously furious and distraught was the Christmas comedy movie Four Christmases. At first I thought it was going to just be a relatable movie about being the childfree couple amongst wild family members who are so different from you. But alas, at the end, the woman is swayed and decides she wants kids and has to convince her man that they should have some. It was so frustrating to watch, especially when the rest of my family loved the movie, while I just wanted to cry.
As a deliberate child free woman who's never had the desire to have children since early childhood I have given up on feeling recognised in deliberate child free characters in media, it feels like setting myself up for disappointment. And it is not just is women who get these speeches of: "oh, you'll change your mind yet", my mother in law confided in me even she gets them on my and my husband's behalf. She has my full permission to answer anyone I have my tubes tied, and am happier for it.
Why do you need that at all? I'm child free and perfectly happy and I never once thought "I need to see more child-free characters in media". Why? The only people who feel the need to see this representation are either people who aren't sure of their choices so they need validation, or people who are constantly pressured to have kids so they feel guilty of not having them. Like, shows and movies are just (mostly dumb) entertainment, not the most important thing in life that decides what is good and what is bad. Why would you need validation from TV?
@@missAlice1990 I don't need validation at all, all the validation I need is seeing my three nephews and two nieces, and take in the enormous time, money, and effort it takes my family to raise them, added with the sincere recognition that while I love those children for who they are, I do not have that primal hind brain that decides I am automatically happy whenever I am near perfectly behaved children I've come to care about on a familial level. It is nice to consume media and see serious characters, in stead of characters that are played for comic relief in which one recognises themselves on some level.
I don't think I would have had kids if I hadn't accidently them, one when I was only 17. As everyone know an immature person with bad finances and planning skills is exactly the type who should be in charge of helpless, tiny humans. Yes, I love my daughters and can't imagine my life without them, but mostly because that would be like trying to imagine the world if the telephone was never invented. Far to alien to even know where to start. But I think a lot of the reason people have kids are silly. My sister is child-free and it's so aggravating to watch people try to talk her into having them. I encourage my daughters to not have kids just so they have an alternative voice on the matter.
Thank you so much for making this video! I was sooo upset over that Brooklyn 99 episode where Amy immediately decides to break up with Jake simply because he's not sure if he wants kids. I get that if one partner wants kids and the other doesn't that is a valid reason to end things, but she was so quick and even though it was portrayed as a positive thing for Jake, the whole situation looked so unhealthy because she put so much pressure on him to change his mind right then and there.
8:36 "People who are secure in their own life choices don't feel the need to push them on to others." Boom. Right to the heart. The answer to nearly all social problems.
@@lordtette That's what OP means. The writers _made_ them have fertility issues so that they would adopt. They could have easily just had Monica and Chandler have biological children, but they purposely didn't.
i think one show that did it well was daisy jones and the six. (spoilers ahead) daisy loves children. she has a natural instinct and inclination with babies and children. but she tells her friend that is a mother she doesn't want kids because she knows what it feels like for a parent to mistreat them and she can't bear to do that to her own children. her friend tells her "and that's exactly why you won't." it was then daisy let herself start to think about being a mother. in the end it's revealed she did have a kid after she got her life on track and she credited her friend for seeing something in herself she couldn't see at the time. i think it was done very well in that it felt natural and didn't feel forced. so many other stories it feels very forced.
True! I really liked that about Daisy, specially when you also have Camilla, someone that I believe always wanted children as well, and Karen, someone who doesn't want children, and ends up not having any, even she could've had them
A lot of shows won't let characters be happily childfree and stay that way. The writers force children on them. Usually a new baby's name is Cousin Oliver. The baby is a sign that the show jumped the shark.
It always felt very objectifying how many people think a human's entire purpose for existing is to reproduce. Its not like were an endangered species. In fact I think 8 billion people is quite enough at this point.
Thank you for talking about this toxic trope. I'm childfree as well and I hate when ppl say..oh that will change when you are older. But I know myself the best, and I don't want children. I also want to get sterilized in the near future so I don't have have to worry while haveing an active sex live. Also the dopple standard in our society sucks as well...like if a man says "oh I don't want children" then thats get accepted easily..but if a woman says she doesn't want children then they tell her that she will not be happy or that her mindset will change when you gets older or find the right partner...it sucks so much.
MY favourite childfree character is and probably will always be Lara Croft. I grew up playing her games and I loved her as a character. She's independent, she's out there living amazing adventures. She just does what she's passionate about. And she's perfectly happy that way. I am childfree and I have always known I don't like children or babies and have never ever had any interest in them. It was very positive having that one character whose life didn't revolve around having a family.
I haaated Penny's ending. Not all the couples needed to have children, and she even SAID she didn't want to if I remember. So the ending was absolute garbage and felt so patronising.
I say this as someone who is somewhat a hybrid between "childless" and "fence-sitting", people should only be parents if they actually want and desire to be parents. Otherwise, you'll end up with unhappy adults in unhappy marriages in which the child is caught in the crossfire of their dysfuntional relationship. If someone has no interest in becoming a parent and continuing their legacy, then that's their choice. Just because you're happy with having kids, doesn't mean the other person will. We're all different, and we all have different perspectives and opinions on things.
@@tbotalpha8133 I didn't mean to say that in a derogatory manner towards children. I was just pointing out that someone who doesn't want to pass on their genes shouldn't forced to do so jsut because society says so.
And it’s absolutely something that couples should discuss BEFORE marriage!!! And you should be on the same page before getting married too! Divorce is expensive, and time consuming, and so are weddings for that matter. I’m in the same situation as you, and I want to be absolutely certain before getting married that my future husband and I are on the exact same page about kids.
I have severe tokophobia, which is my reason to be childfree (next to the other obvious reasons: freedom, autonomy, my health, queer identity, my own mental health and not actually wanting kids, duh). I had to quit watching Brooklyn 99 because there was this sudden baby plot I didn't need nor wanted. To see that it actually ended up with them getting a child makes me happy with that decision, so thank you for giving me closure. Keep it up, we need more videos on the topic!
Using your "queer identity" as an excuse is just flat out dumb and a slap in the face to every queer couple and people who've had kids, which can be done in many ways. Don't use queerness as an excuse.
@@mulqueen20231. it’s not an excuse. Calling it such can be quite damaging. 2. the queer community isn’t a monolith. What is their queer identity for one person, can be wrong for the next. Both experiences are okay and valid and deserve to be addressed.
@@IxiaRayneThank you for replying, and yes, you are right. My queer identity is that I am a genderqueer masc, with high T, but born afab. Being a "mother" and being pregnant - losing my bodily autonomy and choice over my life - would go against my whole identity and end with me going through severe gender dysphoria I have been fighting all my life already. If you are queer and want kids, please go ahead, all the power to you. But don't shame other queer people for not wanting any - you don't know what their story, identity, or experience is.
Idk if this fits but im working on writing a book and one of the main characters raised his siblings and is deciding if he wants his "own" kids or not and ends up not having them
3:16 Something magical does happen when you hold your own child for the first time, and it is completely separated from whether or not you like children in general. But If you dont have children ofc thats hard to Imagine. Also there are Bad parents, Just Like there are Bad people in general. But Most parents connect with their children in a way completely unimaginable If you didnt experience it
To be fair, the only reason that Katniss didn't want kids was because for the longest time she was living in a place ran by people that actively preyed on children and treated them with unrelenting brutality. Once she was free of that world, she finally felt safe enough to have kids of her own. She just wanted to feel safe and free.
I always wanted to have kids when i was a little kid, my sister thought i would be a mom as a teenager simply because that was the earliest it could happen. But as i got older, the state of the world and of my life was so depressing that the thought of willingly bringing an innocent child into the world brought me to tears of grief. How could i inflict this misery onto a baby, with no way to protect themselves and no guarantee that i could do it for them? If i ever end up financially stable and mentally capable of it i might be a foster parent or adopt, but i will never bring a baby into this dumpster fire of a society
thank you for making this video on this topic.... because i too decided in my teenage that i will never have child.... and recently i got annoyed when i told one of my colleague {who already has 2 children} that i will not going to have kids thus child-free, and her reaction was completely opposite as in not supportive, she was telling me that it's not your choice, you can't escape the motherhood and all.... and the most irritating thing she told me was "once you will have a child na, you will love and the most precious feeling inn the world is being a 'mom'", crap... so yeah people don't wanna believe in "child-free" people. oh and i am from INDIA so its going to be more hard to deal and express this decision of mine. but thank you sooo much for this.
If you think childfree characters are treated badly in tropes which reflect real life, wait until you see how sex-free and partner-free people are treated by the society after movies such as “The 40 y/o virgin.”
I loved the movie Aristocats growing up and I still love it. And I also love the character of Madame Adelaide. She's happily single and childfree and gives her attention to her beloved cats that she makes her heirs. Also, I love that she's an elderly lady that is still fashionable and GORGEOUS. Plus she's just a lovely character that treats everyone well. Her last line in the film is that she's starting a foundation to care for all the alley cat's in Paris.
I'm a mom and always wanted to be, but for the life of me I don't get why people have such problems accepting that some people just don't want children. My best friend is childfree and she's very happy and enjoys life. And why shouldn't she? She always knew she doesn't want kids and I always supported her. I don't think she will ever regret that.
OMG you’re experience is so similar to mine, I also knew from the age of 11 I didn’t want children and spent up to my 40’s being told I would change my mind, or grilled as to why I didn’t want children. I’m now 45 and I have no regrets. I have always been honest in relationships, as I do think it’s a make or brake life choice.
I'm a middle school teacher in my late twenties and the number of parents who push this topic onto me without any invitation and insist that I just don't know what I'm talking about (yet) is insane. Ma'am, I take care of 25 kids AT ONCE five days a week, while you as a stay-at-home-mom make me fulfill many if not most of your parental duties and then misuse me as your personal therapist if anything goes wrong in your or your kid's life. Most of the time I don't even have the energy to load the dishwasher at night. So I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.
I'm glad you put Penny in the thumbnail cos that pissed me off so much. The writers for The Big Bang Theory did it not once, but _twice_ First, they took Bernadette, a character that has voiced out her disdain for children for several seasons only for her to have two kids on accident and then suddenly changing her mind off screen. No gradual change in attitude or anything. She just likes kids now. And same with Penny. It would've been fine if she changed her mind or if she accepted the accidental pregnancy but the writers didn't wanna show us that. Even Sheldon pointed it out. He said that last time he checked, Penny didn't want kids so he wasn't sure if he should congratulate them or not. And the writers made him look like the asshole in the situation when he's the only one who thought of Penny's feelings cos Leonard got what he wanted regardless -- Penny and for her to have his baby. It takes agency away from the female characters and makes it seem like all women are good for is having kids whether they wanted them or not.
Adelaïde Bonnefamille is an absolute icon and I hope I get to be half as happy as her at her age. It's also quite funny that her last name means "good family" even though she never "had" one, because herself, her friend and her cats is all the family she ever needed, and it's a quite a good one indeed.
I miss Close Enough so very much, and part of that is not knowing if Bridgette and Alex ever decide to become parents. The first episode showed them not wanting any, but there were hints that they could have been parent material given time. Having a character change their mind on being child-free is plausible. But it should be done in good taste, at the same time!
Another thing that I feel like needs to be talked about is how difficult dating is when you don't want kids someday. How it literally eliminates like 90% of available guys, because most of them want kids. Everyone has their own choice and whatever, but it's just exhausting dating someone that you think is on the same page as you and then later on he says "Well, I'd hoped you would change your mind along the way." Just makes dating so much harder.
It gets better as you get older, some guys already had kids and they are grown up or never wanted any as well. Even when I was in my 30's I met a lot of guys that didn't want kids.
I agree on everything except for Katniss being childfree. Despite her adamant claim in the first movie that she'd never have children, she was conditionally childfree: she didn't want to have children because she didn't want them to go through the reaping. Once the Hunger Games are over, that condition was removed. It still took her years to decide to have children because the fear of loss had been multiplied by the loss of SPOILER. But I don't think that she ever was adamantly childfree. She just didn't want anyone she cared for being reaped. So I see why after ten or fifteen years of therapy, she would have children. She was never really against having children, she was against seeing them csrried away to the games. Those are the conditionally childfree. People who say "Not unless I find a person that is worth raising children with", "not unless I have financial stability" and the like, which makes a lot of sense. EDIT: Yeah, most people had noticed this, too :-)
I think in the beginning, the video put Katniss into the "childless" territory, where she had a very clear set of circumstances in which she would 100% have kids. When she imagines herself and Peeta having children, it's never with disgust, just fear of what the star crossed lovers angle might do to them and how they will cope with the Reapings.
UGH. I hate this trope so much, and they do it all the time to obviously CF characters. I deplored when Paul and Jamie on "Mad About You" had a baby. Like, WHYYYYYY? They did it also to Miranda on "Sex and the City" and Toni Childs on "Girlfriends." YUCK.
Thank you for this! I was really bothered by Penny's pregnancy by the end of the series! I am a mom and always wanted to have kids, but I definitely think society reinforces this idea that you have to be a parent to be happy, which isn't true at all. My best friend is living proof you don't; she and her common law partner just want fur babies and she still loves and spoils my son!
Wonderful video, that ending special shoutout is the truest of them all. I think a big reason why many people have a negative view of child free people is there is this common misconception that child free = child hater. Dr. Grant is a good example of how that isn't the case though, he doesn't want kids of his own but he went to great lengths to protect already existing children. Most of us that choose to be child free are like that, I don't want my own kids but I love my niece and nephews so much.
Captain Holt has Cheddar, once you have a corgi, you don't need anything else. But seriously, what gets me is how many of these supposedly childfree characters end up "accidentaly" pregnant. Yes in some cases the birth control failed, but statistically, with proper use, you can have a healthy sex life and not ever get pregnant. But apparently contraception is a foreign concept in many of these TV and movie universes.
I was a HUGE fan of The Big Bang Theory, but to this day haven't watched the entire season finale. I stopped watching after Penny and Leanord were talking in private and revealed to the audience she was pregnant. This only WEEKS after her character had stated she never wanted children. I was so pissed that I immediately stopped watching, and deleted the recording from my DVR. Then, haven't had a desire to watch the rest.
I’ve never thought positively about having children so it’s really weird to me that it’s so expected for that to be everyone’s happy ending and that people would just have children without actually wanting them (obviously, if they were forced to that’s a different story). I am writing like two stories atm and have never once considered their happy endings would end in them having children. I don’t think I’ve thought that for any of my characters who aren’t already parents in it. A lot of my characters are queer though, and I am aro ace so that’s probably something to do with it.
Samantha from SATC! She was my absolute favorite. I HATED that they made the following characters have children.. Doug and Carrie from The King of Queens. Gabby and Carlos from Desperate Housewives. Hannah from the show Girls. Miranda and Steve from SATC.
Is it really true that most childfree people have put a lot of thought in it? Because I have thought about it for about 40 seconds or so in my entire life. I don't have children for the same reason I didn't persue singing or not having a tattoo: I am just not interested in it. Even if women have a higher factor of urgency in this matter, how much more time would you invest into consideration. Electra doesn't sound as if it was a tight decision for her to make, so I assume she also lacks interest or has pondered her interest against consequences and responsibility.
I knew by my teens that that wasnt the path for me. There was already something *off* in my behaviour that others were starting to pick up on(wasnt diagnosed BPD til my mid 20's but the signs were there) and I figured If I'm not emotionally stable, then I have no business being a parent. It's not fair on me or the kid. As I grew up more, this belief became solidified as an ideal against those with mental illness, especially one that includes a mood disorder in its symptoms, having any close relationship with kids as this actually effects and damages their long term development into adults. Also growing up with a near existence libido(Thyroid I'm looking at you), I wasn't really interested in having sex or partners either that much. It didn't seem like a big deal. Much later, fate underlined my belief by giving me Inflammatory Breast Cancer of which, I found out after I healed, that one of the known side effects of Chemo and Radical Radiotherapy(essentially a double dose of radiation) is infertility. I never bothered to be tested but figured it was probably true. I still have people asking me when I'm gonna marry and have kids. Firstly, I'm well past safe child bearing age, secondly, when did my private life become anyone's business? You want kids, have them but leave the rest of us child free individuals, alone. Not everyone wants a parasite growing inside them thats gonna burst free and ruin, if not take away, their life. I mean that literally as I know some women actually still die during childbirth. For me and others like me, its just not worth the risk.
@@starscreamthecruel8026 That's what I was talking about. It's just something you know. You may picture yourself being a parent in certain situations, but these re-evaluations are always triggered from outside. It's not a question which lingers inside of me.
I think it depends. I thought for a while in my teens and early twenties that i wanted kids, but later, and when i had two boyfriends in a row who were very pushy about the idea of marriage and kids after graduating from university. Rubbed me the wrong way, but we broke up for different reasons, whatever. And when i started thinking about it and i realised i thought i wanted kids because it's kinda a default choice but no. I can have fun watching kids for a miniscule time, but mostly tolerate them especially the loud and will try to snatch and break whatever in their reach type. I don't want that. And pregnancy. Idk where this came from, but I'm kinda afraid of pregnant bellies. Some of them look like a balloon about to burst😢
@@stacykrasnikova7744that's a legit fear. The grotesque changes that a pregnant woman goes through as the condition stretches and distorts her body out of shape is quite frightening. To me, all it kept doing was making me think of those hideous pod eggs in Alien that burst out and latch onto you before later the creature bursts free killing you in the process. And of course, society shames them for becoming pregnant by telling them, they should stay home now, so no one has to see that you are pregnant because you're not attractive anymore and once the kid is born, the Mom is tied to it like a siamese twin til late teens before she should even THINK of doing anything without it for herself. Its like a prison sentence and its horrible. You shame them for not wanting kids then you bully them afterwards and treat them like sub humans once they get pregnant. For woman who genuinely find peace and happiness and want kids just because they WANT kids and not for whatever other reason that they think is gonna be good for them later on, that's fine but the vast majority, I think, would think twice if they realised they have other options. I never wanted kids but If I wasn't so screwed up mentally by my Dad, I probably wouldn't have minded being someone's eccentric Aunt or something you know? Course I have no siblings so i'd just be an eccentric friend that their Mom knew kinda thing but you get the idea.
Maybe it's more innate for other people, but I've definitely spent a significant amount of time and energy on the "having kids" issue. I grew up in a cult, so up until I left in my early 20s, marriage and children were a given. Not only children, but as many as I could possibly pump out. I grew up in a family with 4 kids, and I always felt like my family was small. My partner is one of 6, my mom is one of 7, I have an aunt who is number 11 of 12. Not only was the idea of just not having children foreign, but even the idea of only having 1 or 2 children was practically unspeakable unless you had legit infertility issues, in which case everyone would be very sad for you and pray for you. The one thing I did know growing up is that I wanted to have a career. I knew from a very young age that I wanted to work in healthcare as a mid-level practitioner, so I always figured that I would put off children slightly (as in, not try to get pregnant on my honeymoon like a lot of my friends and relatives did) to pursue my goals. I got married at 21 to a man who was 7 years older than me, who later turned out to be an abusive alcoholic. After about a year, I decided that the way to fix that was by having a baby, so I went off birth control and started trying to conceive. Thank everything in the universe, it didn't work. I barely escaped that marriage with my life, it destroyed my mental and financial health, derailed my career, everything. Then, when I was in the most vulnerable place of my life, my mother's husband (a man who had known and raised me since I was 7 years old, mind you) decided that that was the perfect time to groom and SA me. Fortunately, I met my current partner, and he got me out of that situation. It took a few years, but things eventually stabilized. We bought a house, I went back to school, things are good now. I also learned that part of the reason I never got pregnant with my ex was me. I have since been diagnosed with endometriosis, uterine fibroids, and pelvic congestion syndrome. I also have a short luteal phase. My partner's brother found out that he had an extremely low sperm count along with DNA issues, and he and his wife have had to do IVF. So we tested my partner and he has similar issues. The difference is that my SIL has no fertility issues, she has tons of healthy eggs and has never had an issue carrying to term, whereas my lady parts are not exactly fetus-friendly. The first full round of IVF they did, they collected and fertilized 28 eggs from my SIL, and only got 1 healthy embryo. The second round, they collected and fertilized 35 eggs, and only ended up with 2 healthy embryos. That's how bad the sperm quality is. So, it looks like the only way we ever could get pregnant is via IVF, and considering how hard that whole process has been on my in-laws with just the sperm problems, it's probably not going to work out. At least once my SIL is pregnant, she can carry a baby to term no problem. My biological clock is ticking (I'm 33 currently), and it all just feels like it's not in the cards. As far as my feelings go, I can't say I feel super strongly one way or the other. I like children for the most part, I adore my nieces and nephews, and I've worked in Pediatrics for 5 years and enjoyed it a lot. At the same time, I enjoy the fact that no children live in my home. I like the ability to be alone, I like that my partner and I can just up and leave on the weekends if we wanted. I'm good at being an aunt, I don't know if I would be a good mother. Half the time, I can barely take care of myself. There's also the fact that I was heavily parentified growing up. I practically raised my youngest two siblings, so I know full well what goes into having children. I love my career, and now that it's finally back on track I want to give it my full attention. Sometimes, I wonder what it would be like to be pregnant and give birth, and part of me wants to experience it, but when I think about having to take the baby home in the end, permanently, I lose some steam. Maybe if I went through it, I would feel differently, but then I hear people talk about regretting motherhood and hating being a parent, and you can't go backsies on that. As for my partner, he's in the same position. He definitely doesn't feel the "call of fatherhood". He's extremely awkward and uncomfortable around babies. He just barely started interacting with our nephew and he's 2. Sometimes he thinks that it would be cool to pass on his name or genetics, but he never actually talks about wanting to be a parent. Other times, he says having children would be a horrible idea, and he's happy that we're child free. All of this is to say - for some of us, it isn't that cut and dried. Right now, I'm totally fine with never having children of my own. Sometimes, I think I should reconsider, and I go through it all again. I withhold the right to change my mind. But I also just genuinely think it wouldn't happen even if we tried. I certainly don't want any right now. Honestly, sometimes I wish I just knew either way. I think feeling "meh" about it is enough to justify not doing it, but sometimes I wish it was just a definite, "I've always known I didn't want children" or "I've always known I wanted to be a mommy". I have strong, distinct feelings about my career, so I know exactly what it feels like to have that conviction, but not on motherhood. It would certainly be a lot easier to just automatically know and have always known, I envy that TBH. But that's just not how it is for me.
Rather than having to even make labels for different groups of non-parents, it would be easier if we just started normalizing asking people why they WANT to have children vs asking why they DON'T have children. I'm childfree, but I think it's fine if I change my mind, and it's fine if I don't. Whether or not I've felt this way since I was young shouldn't have any bearing on the validity of my not having kids now. The bottom line is, we shouldn't be expected to give an explanation as to why we don't have kids, but rather, why we DO. Unfortunately, with the overturn of Roe, the stigma around parental responsibility is only going to get worse.
Ahhhhhhhhhhh you have no idea how happy this makes me to see a video highlighting this!!!!!!! April having a kid I hated, I wanted them to adopt animals. Robin and Barney again hated. Penny same. I did love that Boyle adopted though.
I'm surprised you didn't bring up Bridgerton. Dude was strictly child free, but girl took advantage of him to get preggo. And HE is somehow the villain for putting up boundaries and being upset about it. I'm still grossed out about that.
Wow! Thank you to everyone who's liked, commented, and subscribed! It really means a lot!💜
Edit: OMG thanks for 100+ subs! You guys have blown my mind!
I’m just now finding your channel and I’m having a great time watching your videos. 😊
Congrats on your first viral video 😉
Bizarre youtube algorithm brought my poor wife here. Now she's upset that she listened to a lonely, miserable harpy rant about how much she hates children & mothers and have a tantrum about seeing them depicted.
So thanks for that. Child-haters don't deserve to be "taken seriously".
I had no idea this was such a small channel - your video was well made and the the topic was interesting - just as good as anything I might find on Hello Future Me.
@paulsoldner9500 the decision to not be a parent doesn't mean you "hate children", or deserve to be insulted by those that do.
And if listening to an opinion other than her own made your wife upset, then she should come out from under her rock more often, so that the mere existence of the 99.9% of the world that isn't her doesn't cause her such distress.
"You don't have a royal bloodline to protect -- you work at Macy's" LOL
Really classist take.
That made me chuckle too
I get that "legacy" is a silly argument since you can only control how your kid turns out so much, but implying only those who monopolized wealth and status are worthy of procreation is kind of terrible take. Considering the inbreeding effects on health of said babies.
@@InternetNonsense Idk, honestly.
I know right, lol. So many average Joes and they think they're that special.
I agree with the overall thesis of this video but Katniss having kids is not solely because Peeta wants kids. The reason she did not want kids was because of the hunger games and the awful circumstances of her upbringing. Her having children shows how far her society has come and her belief that she and her children have a future. She feels safe enough to do so now. I think it is ok to change your mind as circumstances change as well. But I do agree that many of the other choices on the list do play in to idea that everyone needs to have children to be fulfilled. Cece and Nigel should never have had children.
It's been years since I saw the movie, but the epilogue in the book does a really good job of giving this exact sentiment.
yes this!! women are allowed to change their minds. there's a content creator who seems to swing so far one direction. there was an episode of a show where a woman wanted her baby, was pregnant with her baby and wanted to keep her baby. there were health risks. he kept insisting she should "get rid of it" and and couldn't understand why she'd want to be a mother in the first place. and it's like, being pro choice is being pro CHOICE. the woman's choice, whatever that may be. a woman is allowed to have kids or not have kids. to change her mind on the subject of kids. she's allowed to make her own choices based on her reproductive health. it's like there's this mindset that if a woman changes her mind and chooses to have kids or something, then it's automatically a decision she didn't make and it kind of takes away the agency and voice of the woman and her choice to think that.
Also Katniss loves children! She basically raised Prim and she's so sweet with Rue and she takes care of Gale's younger siblings too. It makes perfect sense that when circumstances changed she also changed her mind.
Didn’t Katniss basically say that she never wanted kids, but that Peeta pressured her into it enough to eventually give in? She ABSOLUTELY only had kids for his benefit, and was super vocal about not having kids in the previous books.
@@Hailey_Paige_1937she didn't want kids at a time when the world was in termoil because she didn't want them to grow up scared and with the horrors she faced as a kid. but when the world was calmer, safer she was absolutely open to it.
another reason sitcoms give pregnancies to everyone is actually... because it's another plot point. when a show runs for multiple seasons, they need marriages, breakups, deaths and births to make it more interesting, to the detriment of the characters
They need better writers then
A new baby is a sign that a show jumped the shark. The baby's name is Cousin Oliver.
OMFG sitcom writers are the _real_ monsters. They just thoughtlessly throws kids onto childfree persons without a care in the world.
But those things are part of life.
The alternative is to create characters who are distinctly abnormal.
@@Hjominbonrun but they are not the ONLY parts of life. Why cant we have characters that have good jobs that get promotions and go off on exciting trips with their friends to see new places and try new things? Why is it alwas the same boring life path with ALL the characters? Why cant some break free of the norm? Its just repetitive, depressing and dull because all it says, is this is what normal looks like and that to me means, normal SUCKS.
"Children are human beings, not a legacy" This!
Two things can be true at once
@@amcmahon134 however many things can be true at once, children are still not a legacy.
@@dunjica77 "Legacy" is defined as the long-lasting impact of particular events, actions, etc. that took place in the past, or of a person’s life. Can you look at that and tell me that children are not part of that? A legacy is certainly not all that a child is - obviously. However, it is undeniable that whatever else a child is, they are also a part of their parents' legacy, for good or for ill.
@@amcmahon134 Yeah. And we both know what is meant by people treating children like their “legacy” and it ain’t in the finer points of the dictionary entries.
@@dunjica77 I don't know, actually. By all means enlighten me.
Then there are the people who have a kid, then regret their choice to do so... but they don't tell anyone about their regret because people might think they're a terrible person. I don't hear too many people saying "you might regret that later" to the people who want to have kids.
My besties mom would tell her “I only had you bc your dad wanted kids, I never did” and it deeply negatively affected her, she got diagnosed ptsd this year. If you don’t want kids don’t have them or you’re just going to hurt and damage them!
They don't tell anyone but their children definitely feel it.
THIS. Parents *_always_* tell young people how having children completes them, how great it is, etc...then when they have a kid and are completely overwhelmed, the older parents go "Hs ha ha, yup, welcome to the club, say goodbye to sleep and life as you know it." Like.... that's not commiserating, it's blatantly manipulative.
They never tell anyone about the really bad parts of parenting until it's too late.
@@omnipotentfaces1514 Same goes for anyone who stays in a bad marriage "for the kids". That screws them up so, so much. The kids always know, and all it does is normalize loveless, toxic relationships so they go on to grow up and repeat the cycle.
@@omnipotentfaces1514 My mother told me the same. She told me when she found out she was pregnant (especially with twins), she thought about "falling" down a flight of stairs to get a miscarriage. It scarred me for life. The nurses in the hospital I was born in thought it was strange that when we came out of her, she refused to touch either one of us. My grandmother told me that story. My mother was abusive towards us our whole life as a result. Aside from that, both my mother and grandmother told me horror stories about their pregnancies.
What bugs me is that it seems to me like writers don't know how to write about people being childfree by choice and/or single by choice and still make the character themselves relatable or interesting. Coupling everyone up and giving everyone babies by the end of the series is such an overused cliche, and it perpetuates this narrative that THAT is the only way for things to go. Not everyone wants to be married or to be a parent, what's wrong with that? Having a partner or a kid doesn't automatically make people more interesting and doesn't increase their value, both in real life and on television.
I started losing interest in The Big Bang Theory when Sheldon, of all people, suddenly had a girlfriend and then everyone starts getting married? WTH? I haven't seen the last two seasons so I didnt know Penny got pregnant but thats just a major downer for what, started out at least, as an interesting and unusual sitcom about nerds.
Totally agree.. the scene where Penny 'confesses' to Bernardette she doesn't want children, and Bernardette (a 'former childfree' woman herself), belittles her in the most out straight condescending way, telling her she doesn't know what she wants.. it's just so painful to watch!
@@starscreamthecruel8026 Agreed. Once everyone started getting married/pregnant I felt like the writers had gotten lazy 😑 I really felt like making Sheldon and Amy a couple was unnecessarily forced. What's wrong with 2 people keeping a relationship strictly platonic?
@@Aja-Christian That would have worked better for both of their characters instead of assuming that Amy had a thyroid disorder(which is how it came across) that made her a closet nymphomanic.
@@starscreamthecruel8026 I thought Amy would have been better off with Raj. Sheldon could have kept one or two of the cats. The Big Bang Theory went way downhill when it became about the eomances.
I am in the camp of people who wants to be a parent.
That said, people who don't want to be parents should not be parents. It is mind boggling that society pressures people into parenthood who have no desire to become parents. I feel sorry for any children raised by unwilling parents.
I agree with that. And people calling child free people "selfish" for not having kids is ridiculous if u ask me. If anything, choosing to have kids even under circumstances that aren't the greatest is selfish to me. If someone hasn't healed from all the things they've experienced in their childhood and doesn't have the means to raise a child, there should be no reason they should be trying for a child. Choosing not to have kids is the more selfless option, really. Not bringing people into this world for whatever reason is actually makes more sense than knowing all the risks of having kids, being unsure u want them, and having them anyways.
@@lavender4658 Child-free people are not selfish, it's the self serving, blind, brain dead bastards who don't have to take responsibility of anyone else's kids when things do fuck up and are obsessed with judging than helping or undertsanding that are truly selfish
I agree, knew someone who was assaulted as a teen by an abusive partner and ended up pregnant.
I can only assume that societal pressure was the reason she didn't decide to give the kid up for adoption, since the partner went to jail for a couple of years when the kid was only a couple of months old.
Thing is I've seen the way she treats that kid, and it's not good. Hell, she even went on to have another one with some other dude for who knows what reason since she seems to hate being a mom. Not to mention that even outside of that she has a lot of baggage, bit on the emotionally stunted side you know?
It's a shame because she's very much a career focused woman, puts herself and her wants first. If what happened to her back then never happened, I don't think she would have kids. But now well... You know how it is for woman with kids.
@@handlenot030 You obviously didn't grow up in an environment where one or both of your parents didn't want you. Even when they do their best, you feel that you're different from other kids whose parents did want them. My parents were great - but Dad really wanted kids and Mom definitely did not. Mom ended up as a SAHM for 20 years anyway to make Dad happy, and while she was heavily involved in volunteering at our school, anything to play the role of supermom, I feel as though it was either a way to distract herself from how much she disliked her lot in life or as a way of possibly assuaging any guilt she may have felt about her cold mothering. We get along great now and they're still happily married, living their nice quiet life in the country with their cats. But from my experience, there's absolutely no way to fully hide from your kids the fact that you didn't want them. I'm 33 weeks pregnant with my first child and you'd better believe I was sure about having her - not just that I wanted her but that I knew I could be the kind of warm and loving mother I wish I had.
It's massively unfair to all sides, especially the kid because they have no choice in who their parents even are.
I would love to have children, either biologically or by adoption, if I meet the right man, but The Big Bang Finale even rubbed me the wrong way. Penny had previously said she didn’t want children, and it was clear how upset she was when she first learned she was pregnant. They either shouldn’t have taken her character down that road in the first place, had more than a few scenes in the finale dedicated to it, and definitely should’ve introduced the plot line before the series finale if they were going to introduce the pregnancy at all. Heck, a conversation where she changes her mind about wanting children would’ve been preferable to having her be pregnant when she still wasn’t sure she wanted to be a mother.
I honestly don't get why they never had Amy or Raj have kids.
Amy literally tried to combine her DNA with Sheldon, so both on some level do seem to want kids. And as for Raj, just my opinion but he seems like the type of guy who'd want to be a dad.
Bernadette was a much more egregious one to me. With Penny, I could see that maybe a lot of her issues were due to her dad being disappointed that she's female.
Bernadette specified that she raised her brothers and sisters and didn't want it again, but it was a incompatibility with Howard. They should have just broken up.
It is not like the just Hinted that she did not want children. Her and Leonard had a full chat about that, and had made a decision together
Penny was never anything but a blow-up doll.
@@bluebird1914While it didn't happen in the official show, Young Sheldon does reveal that Sheldon and Amy do have a kid.
I’ve always wanted to be a parent. However, I just can’t manage it. My girlfriend & I discussed this. We both love kids. But we both agree that with all of our disabilities lack of energy we would be happier if we just have each other & a pet. We would both be good parents, I truly believe that. But we wouldn’t be able to care for each other & ourselves properly if we did
When my mother said “you’ve always wanted kids, you’ve giving up your dream.” I said “sometimes what you want isn’t what you need. Yes I love children, but I have found a life that makes me even happier than the life you wanted. This is just what I needed”
As someone with chronic fatigue and other health issues, I think you're making a sensible and moral choice here. Some things aren't always manageable, especially with everything that goes into raising a happy and healthy child
Feel very seen by this comment; I'm not disabled but I do have really bad mental illness so while I think I'd like a kid sometimes I know it's just not right for me.
@@EllieC130 I’m so glad I can help you feel less alone with this. My partner & I both have physical disabilities & mental illness as well. I understand how painful it can be at times. Regardless though, I hope your life is full of contentment. I hope you can heal & live the happiest life possible for you
@@ieldore thank you. More than anything we want to break the cycle of abuse & neglect in our families. & I take comfort in knowing that this decision still achieves our goal.
My situation is similar. Sometimes I feel that having a kid would be nice, but I suffer from chronic pain and fatigue, so even if I somehow manage to take care of them for the first few years, after a while that kid is going to have to take care of me, much earlier than usual. I don't think that's fair for them.
I think this trope is also common because few people (especially on TV) want to explicitly state that abortion is an option. When you have childfree people encountering an "accident", the show indirectly implies that "well, you're a parent now so suck it!". It's not just that being childfree is treated as immature or silly, the idea is also peddled that if you get pregnant (or get someone pregnant), you should "grow up" and stop being childfree whether you like it or not. This is what angered me about the Big Bang theory; Penny didn't want kids, but abortion/adoption was not given any serious consideration (if any at all).
But like you said, abortion probably wasn’t something they wanted to talk about on TV.
Crazy Ex-girlfriend is the one show that comes to mind that had the guts to not only consider abortion a valid option, but to have the character actually go through with it. Even Sex and the City, a very progressive show for its time, chickened out of the abortion choice.
This is what I really liked about Greys Anatomy and showing Christina actively choosing abortion twice, even though the first pregnancy got ahead of her XD
@@rootedinland6823 oh I was going to mention Crazy Ex Girlfriend ! What I liked about it is also that they did it with a woman who already has two kids, showing that aborption is not only something for "young and immature women who sleep around without getting protected" as it is often portrayed (most of the times when I see it is portrayed, it is often a teenage girl who get it cause "I'm too young for kids", never a woman who is in a situation where she could be raising the kids, but don't want to).
Some women are leaving their options open! So childless/childfree until the right situation occurs!
Being a parent is a choice, not an obligation.
This needs to be said more often
Correct. And if you do become a parent, it's an obligation and not a choice to care for your child. I wish more people understood these points.
I agree with everything but Katniss, she stated very clearly that the reason she did not want children was because of the hunger games. Once that is gone, she can make the choice of what she wants without thinking about the posibility of her kids being part of a battle royal.
Nope. It's never explicitly stated that she changed her mind, plus it's clear in the ending she hates her life and both she and Peeta are not coping well.
@@WobblesandBean I would say it's more respecting that both Peeta and Katniss were hurt in a way they will never fully recover from. They are moving on and having moments of happiness, but they are still hurting and that's very real to life. Sometimes there is no 100% recovery, but that doesn't mean you can't move forward and live a life worth living. And just to state it, you can 100% have a meaningful life without having kids.
@@WobblesandBean What? I absolutely disagree with that. It's not clear in the ending that she hates her life. She is traumatized, as every child of war is. But she clearly states that Peeta is the right person for her, the sunshine to her darkness, and she's on therapy (mandated by law and required for her legal safety, since she commited a severe crime and therapy is probably part of her "punishment", instead of going to jail).
The ending is not happy because it's true to what happens in a war. Katniss won. Her side won. And that's how the WINNERS in a war feel. She didn't fight for glory, riches, a country, a god or freedom: she just fought for her family, she just wanted to take care of a sister she had taken care of as if she was her daughter, and for her to survive... The reason why the ending is bittersweet is that Katniss won a war and found glory, riches, democracy for her country and freedom... all things she never wanted to fight for. What she fought for, though... But, her and Peeta not coping well? They are coping very well All Things ConsideredTM.
@@WobblesandBean Did you read the book?
She's traumatised, as anyone would be, *_but she's moving on._*
From her interaction with kids and people in the books and the movies, it's clear that she is a caring and loving person. The way the book describes it, it seems clear that she isn't "child free by choice", but did not want children or a family in such a horrible world, *which should be understandable to anyone.*
Having a family is for her a symbol of how the world has changed, and how she can now feel safe enough to have what she wanted without fear of it being ripped away from her like it had for so many before.
I think that even at the start of the story it was made clear that she wanted to be happy with the friends and family she had too, but that the games and the capital was a source of endless misery ruining the future for everyone. That misery stood in the way of her ultimate goal, which is why she decided to fight in the first place.
She volunteered as tribute, because without her sister and with her father gone too, she would only have her mother left. She couldn't sit idly by and watch her family be destroyed, and the ending really underlines how important family was to her.
Despite the wounds she suffered, she found help to heal in Peeta and her family. That kind of ending is not for everyone, but IMO it is very right for Katniss as a character.
@@WobblesandBean Bro really said "nuh uh"
I did like how they handled Robin not wanting kids in HIMYM. She never started really wanting kids, her sadness came from not being able to. Cuz I like that it showed someone can not ever want kids and still be upset that it's no longer possible. There's a big difference in being childfree by choice and having the option taking away by circumstances beyond your control. So it was nice that they let Ribin feel that emotion.
I agree. It’s nice to show the complexities of human nature that two things can be true at the same time.
I guess that could happened but I’m childfree and I had to have a abdominal scan once and they were like we can only see one ovary (which of course may make pregnancy harder). I literally said out loud. “Don’t worry about it, I’m not using them”. They found it in the end with a different scan but I was not in the least bothered.
Yep! Robin wasn't upset cause she changed her mind, she was upset at the lack of Power and control over herself. Choosing to not procreate when you are fully capable to do it ia very different from not being able to. So, I guess in her case that were the issue.
I think it’s more about feeling disempowered and for a woman it can feel like you are lesser for not being able rather than choosing not to - which sucks and I disagree with but is totally real. My bestie while always hating kids, from childhood trauma and gender dysphoria, had to come to terms her child would inherit a severe genetic problems she lives with too and thus she didn’t think it was moral. But it still rocked her and made her feel really low even though she doesn’t actually want them.
I relate so much to her on that point because the same thing happened to me and I felt sad for something I didn't want. It's a weird feeling
Another example that was handed terribly is Simon from the "Bridgerton" TV show. He didn't want children because he was abused by his father (which is a totally valid reason), but he later changed his mind because of the power of love, as if his trauma was no big deal. Not to mention how his wife pretty much forced herself on him to make him ejaculate inside her to prove a point. That scene was so uncomfortable to watch...
As someone else mentioned, I only disagree on Katniss' point, since she changed her mind due to the circumstances around her. In that case, she seems to fit the "childless" category, not "childfree". Either way, great video!
I took it as him actually wanting children for himself but not allowing himself that because it would please his father which is why he promised him not to have any
@@AN-sm3vjyeah, that was beyond fucked up and i also stopped watching at that point. It's so clear the show isn't willing to admit raping a male character is morally abhorrent and without excuse.
this was one of the grossest scenes I've seen in a long time because of the way it was brushed aside so easily like she did nothing wrong. even if he did want kids but didn't want to cum inside her right then and there, that would be wrong! so the added layer of her trying to force him into fatherhood is just abhorrent.
And the main problem with that storyline (other than Daphne sexually assaulting him) is that we don’t even delve into the reasons why he wants to not have kids other than stating it out loud. The season tries to play it off like the reason Simon doesn’t want it is because he thinks he incapable of being loved. Well if that’s the case, then why not delve into that? Why not give him closure on the whole thing with his Dad? Why not have Daphne show him (in a non predatory way) that if that’s the real reason he doesn’t want kids that he can be loved and give love back.
Trauma with parents can absolutely play a part in why someone may think they can't give love back or ever be loved, which explains why Simon is so cold and dismissive with people because he doesn't want to be hurt again. These are valid points but there is a way to make them come across without your male lead being sexually assaulted into having a child.
I agree it was awful. If they wanted Daphne to discover he was lying to her and get pregnant than they could’ve just had her get pregnant bc the pull out method is not really effective. Maybe she gets sick and doesn’t know why until she talks to the maid where she realizes Simon was lying to her saying he can’t have children, and Simon learns the pull out method isn’t fool proof.
Then you can still have them talk about having kids, Daphne can try to understand and alleviate his fears about being a bad father bc his own was so bad. Or if it’s not out of fear but the spiteful oath he made to his father not to continue the line. Then either Daphne or Lady Danbury cold tell him that by doing things or not doing just to spite his father he is keeping his father's memory and influence over his life alive and well.
damn i love Brookyn 99, but damn, that episode with shaming jake for having doubts was just weak
Made me so mad, I stopped watching the show altogether.
Literally i was so angry i felt like i want to punch Amy
@@horaspeher3368 Same. Years later I can bring myself to rewatch pre-Netflix episodes but I ragequit the show at that episode.
Wow! That’s where I stopped watching too! I wonder how many others did too?
I actively pretend that episode doesn't exist. Amy had agreed with Jake on waiting until they were ready and then did a 180 in that episode and it was so gross. The rest of the show was great, but that one episode sucked
Bilbo and Frodo Baggins in Lord of The Rings were child free. Neither of them ended up married or had children of their own. Eccentric odd ducks as far as most of the other Hobbits in the Shire were concerned.
Sam, Merry, and Pippin all ended up married with kids of their own (if one reads through the Appendices).
That’s bc they’re men, they’re allowed to have the choice. Female characters are considered ‘missing’ something if they don’t want/have kids.
@@omnipotentfaces1514THIS!
Sam and frodo were besties. Remember sam did have kids with Rosie
@@brialapoint2608 Sam and Frodo were besties, but Sam also served multiple terms as mayor of Hobbiton. He did not go back to merely being Frodo's gardener.
The difference is, they're dudes.
Bernadette from Big Bang was my rage stimulus lol. She was so against having kids and had good valid reasons. They did her dirty!
THISSSSSSS.
Seriously, more than Penny this one pissed me off the most.
I totally agree, in fact I think she and Howard shouldn’t have married at all when she revealed how much she disliked children to him. That’s not something a couple can compromise on. And I hated that Penny was pregnant at the end too.
What really bothers me about Big Bang Theory is that it went from a truly original, clever show about geeks to a "let's all get hitched and pregnant" romcom cliche. It seriously became one of the most damaging shows in sending the message that no matter how adamant a woman is that she does not want kids, she must not know her own mind. Or maybe we simply don't care as a society about what's in her mind... She must be impregnated regardless. Then there was the disrespect shown towards Sheldon's asexuality. I loved Amy, but the idea that she and Sheldon would ever have a physical relationship was just too absurd. And once again, you are dehumanizing a character (and the audience) with the message that society knows better than you, and any professed difference from mainstream norms is an "immaturity" that must be corrected. What a massive disappointment that show turned out to be.
@@automnejoy5308Agree with everything you say, but I think the main problem is that TBBT (like many other sitcoms/shows) greatly overstayed their welcome. Try to write a show for 12 seasons when you are out of ideas at the end of 7. It just got worse and worse as the writers kept throwing stuff at the wall and see what stick. Personally. the only sitcom which went on for 10+ seasons and I still felt worth to watch was modern family (by no means perfect, but at least somehow fresh). On the other hand, hats off to B99 execs who managed to quit while they were ahead.
@@blackest3314 Yeah, I remember people complaining about how TBBT was going on and on when it probably should have ended around season 6 or 7. The reason Modern Family could still feel fresh is because you had the development of all the kids. There were all kinds of storylines for the transition of each of the kids to adolescence and then to adulthood. It's really hard to do 10 seasons when all the characters are adults from the very beginning... especially when the charm of the show is that they are single geeks. But it's understandable the writers didn't know what else to do after all that time. I mean, it wasn't realistic that they would all just be single forever more. Some of them would get married and have kids. It's just that the viewer didn't want to see much of that with these particular characters. And with some, we didn't want to see any of it.
I’m not sure I agree about Katniss. From her conversation with Gale, I got the impression that she couldn’t even let herself think about it because it wasn’t an option and she was focused on taking care of Prim
Also she really liked kids, she mothered her little sister, had good relationships with Rue, Gales brothers... And stated at the end of the last book that she was not sure, not that she didn't want them. She mostly hated the possibility of putting another little human through the trauma she endured.
@@Pirates.27I don’t think her feeling responsible for her younger sister after her parents were no longer able to take care of her implies she likes kids all that much. Many people who are childfree and don’t like children had to raise their siblings. Katniss is a part of this trope because she ultimately only had children for Peeta. If Peeta didn’t want kids they would’ve never had them.
The movie is not very clear about her point of view, but in the books she's very clear that her reason not to become a mother is that she's scared that her children could end up being tributes for the games when they're old enough. She doesn't end up having kids just for Peeta's sake, but because without the Games, she starts to trust the future, although both her & Peeta suffer from PTSD their wholes lives, needing constant reassuring from each other that everything was gonna be ok
Thank you for making this video, I have never wanted to have children and am sterilized. I went through a period where people almost insisted that it was my duty to have children, but it's important to know that it's just a phase. I am 41 years old, and I am now free from having to listen to that anymore.
It's largely stopped for me too, I'm 34. Then again, I was lucky; my family gets it (they didn't really want kids either but here I am 😂) and I've surrounded myself with friends who also get it.
The last time someone said "Oh, you may change your mind one day..." was a couple of years ago, a new friend. I just said, "Please don't say that to me." She apologized and never brought it up again, and we remained friends until she passed.
Was so on board the entire video. THEN you mentioned MADAME. And I got out my seat, hands in the air, silent screaming in agreement and approval and I absolutely love her and you. You made my night. 😂
THANK YOU for saying it. I'm so goddamn sick of seeing myself in childfree characters, only to have them bouncing babies on their knees by the end of the series. No, we aren't freakin destined to be mothers, we don't need children to feel fulfilled, and we aren't going to suddenly change our minds one day.
Preach!
Exactly!! Penny was literally one of the most relatable characters I've seen, even more so by the fact that she didn't want kids. But god forbid a woman not want to have children 🙄 of course she accidentally got pregnant and magically changed her mind and everyone has kids in the end 😊🙄
There seems to be an underlying trope that any female character that doesn't adhere to the classic housewife stereotype of settling down and having kids will inevitably get turned into that. It's not just about kids, it's also about starting a family in general and the job taking a backseat. Like how Elliot on Scrubs started out as someone practically married to the job but ends up leaving medicine behind entirely, and the series ends with her being on maternity leave. I know she always showed some interest in raising a family, but it still feels weird.
To be fair, its shown Elliot didnt necessarily want to be doctor but it was expected of her, so its not completely out of the blue. She probably likes its enough but she even tells Turk in later epidodes the she doesnt know if she wants to work as a Doctor forever, its makes sense in her arc where she becomes more secure in herself and figures out what things she wants in life
Thank you for talking about this, as a childfree person and a tokophobe, I've always felt personally insulted by this trope. Especially since it taught people that they can shame and dismiss my choices and my fears.
People teach all sorts of things i disagree with. Thr best hing you can do is teach the people that try to coerce others into doing what they want.
Yes! I hated that Penny got pregnant and suddenly acted happy about it.
particularly when you remember the flashback of her and her current bf in the toilet with a pregnancy tester and how overjoyed she was, when she learned she WASNT pregnant. It doesn't fit her mentality at all.
I never wanted kids. Did not want them when I was a little girl. Did not want them as a teen or even as a young woman. At 32, I am not even sure why, I changed my mind. Happy mom now. BUT, I also hated that ending for Penny. Because they put so much emphasis on the fact that she did not want them. They devoted a whole episode to this. We saw nothing about her changing her mind. So, we just assume that she is now happy about an accidental pregnancy? No way. That was just a cheap stunt for the finale.
It’s funny that Sheldon was the only one to bring this up, even though his reasons for doing so were mostly selfish, the fact that he didn’t congratulate her was because he didn’t think she wanted any.
I stopped watching when it was revealed to the audience (the scene where she and Leonard were alone talking about it). I've not gone back to finish the finale, either.
My husband and I are happily childfree. We just never wanted kids. I personally don't really like kids. We have 3 beautiful cats, lots of free time, and extra money for great vacations. It's really disappointing how few childfree people are represented in movies and tv. The only childfree couple I can think of are Gale and Dewey from the Scream movies. If anyone can lead me to more examples I'd love to hear them
Not main characters but Phyllis and Bob Vance in The Office:)
@@kachnasierpniowaOh true. It's too bad they didn't have anyone else be childfree. Even Nellie, who was a great character, of course ended up wanting a child
I love every episode of B99 but always skip that episode as it makes my blood boil. Not just because he is pressured into it, but because honestly it doesn't fit either character. Jake previously said multiple times he would be a dad one day, and Amy never mentioned it before, if anything I assumed Amy didn't want kids as she's so career focused. And she's so organised that there's no way it wouldn't have come up before as part of her life plan. It would have made much more sense if Amy was on the fence, especially with the end being Jake who gives up his career to look after the baby.
The good place. There’s one child in one episode and they do not belong to any of the main characters.
A great exploration of an exhausting trope. The thing I have problems with in B99 is how Amy never discusses whether or not she wants kids with Jake BEFORE they get married when they are 37.
what irks me with Jake is that it's so easy to handle his shift from no-but-maybe to a strong-yes. It's a nice take on how this manchild is a good father rather than just a "fun" one. The ingredients are all there. Show him being really good at babysitting while Amy looks at him fondly, have him look longingly at happy families or even just saying it outright, have him make numerous continuous comments of "well if I become a dad" "if my kid" "if I had a kid" "that wouldn't happen with my kid" etc. Put the hints far from before the issue of children is brought up, frame it clearly as him wanting to be a father but being held back by his trauma. Throw away the debate scene entirely and just have a genuine conversation from the get go. I genuinely think he'd be an amazing dad, but the way they write him into one is just odd :/
honestly, even if they hadn't previously built it up, "Casecation" could've been replaced with a subplot of exactly what you described - Jake subconsciously expressing how much he wanted to be a dad (and certainly a better father than his own) but not being able to consciously express that without being held back by his trauma. the ending of the episode is Jake realizing that not only does he want to be a dad but that, more importantly, he is capable of working through his trauma to be the kind of dad he wishes he had. bada bing, bada boom!
if they really wanted a quirky debate scene, they could've had one where the stakes aren't _Amy and Jake's literal marriage._ maybe the debate is instigated as a way for Jake find out whether he's ready for the decision at last. it'd still be weird that Jake and Amy might not have talked about having children before, but at least this would reframe it as a "wait and see" kind of mutual agreement as opposed to Amy just taking it for granted that Jake wanted children.
Yeah, that's what bothered me about it too, not necessarily the "childfree to parent" trope, because this technically isn't even that. The whole "Jake not wanting kids" thing came out of nowhere.
When people get into the “you’ll change your mind” argument with me over my stating I don’t want kids, I’ll usually respond with “I’m NOT ABLE to have kids” and then let them feel bad about pushing the subject. (It’s technically true. I’m a child free Ace but I don’t have to tell them that part.)
I do love kids but I’d rather be like Joey from Friends. Live down the hall from my close friends who are happy with their children and lend them extra help.)
I remember watching a show with this trope. I pointed out to my parents how I relate to a character. She is a woman who doesn't want to have children for financial reasons and emotional truama. The show ended with her having a baby 🥲 her financial struggle is still a thing and she still has emotional baggage.
My mother pointed at the TV and said "see it will change once you have a baby" I was just sat there screaming on the inside
That perfectly illustrates how powerful media is in affecting society and how people think. An audience of millions is watching, absorbing and forming and re-enforcing values and beliefs based on what some biased, ignorant writers decided to regurgitate.
As a teen I thought I wanted the whole marriage & at least one kid. As I got older I realized I like living alone & having my freedom.
Now, my nieces & nephews are my children & they're all I need. I have the best of both worlds.
You will never understand the incomparable joy of seeing your child grow up. When you are old, I hope you don't become lonely :/
@@alexndg5260 Like I said, my nieces & nephews are my children. So, no I'm not lonely and I have a loving family that is going to take care of me as I have taken care of them.
Also, I have traits I wouldn't want to potentially pass on to offspring that never asked to be born into this crowded, sometimes judgmental & unforgiving world.
Also also, some people shouldn't bare or raise children. I'm responsible enough to know my limitations.
@@alexndg5260So you just watched the video and came to the comment to disagree with it? Not everyone needs kids.
Awesome, you made me smile. Hope you have a good life.
@@Hepheat75 Thanks, you too.
6:55-7:05 To me, it seems the problem in this situation is the season long build up of her deciding to be child-free, getting everyone on board, including Leonard, then writing her getting pregnant by blaming it on the alcohol. It's a weird cop out to what was a good, serious storyline in a comedy.
It also casts Leonard in a negative light, who up until that point, at least had some decency when it came to vulnerable women but now, oh no, hes gonna take advantage and get her pregnant else it wont happen. ARRGH!
@@starscreamthecruel8026 The whole thing is just a huge bundle of absolute YIKES. Neither Penny's or Leonard's characters ever deserved to be done THIS dirty.
It was a BS plotline to introduce into season 12 just for the sake of creating more drama.
You’re telling me that a couple that has been married for several years and dated for years prior to that never brought up the idea of having children? Especially when Leonard had expressed the desire to become a father?
And I’m sorry, but the idea that Leonard took advantage of his drunk wife is an excuse women make to completely lets his drunk wife off the hook for being irresponsible with birth control. And it’s not like this was going to be their first sexual encounter: Leonard and Penny were a married couple, and Penny was definitely a willing participant.
@@54raynorDisagree about your last point. The reason people say it paints Leonard in a really bad light is fairly simple. Based on the dialogue, Penny arrived home drunk and wanted sex, they had unprotected sex. It implies they use condoms, which is fine, not everybody can use hormonal birth control (am one of them) or want to use it. Because Leonard was sober, it was his responsibility to either refuse sex if Penny didn't want condoms (cause she was drunk and so couldn't really consent to unprotected sex) or make sure to wear one, because he knew she didn't want kids and he was the sober one, so the one with enough clarity to make decisions. Instead, it's written as Leonard having no agency in the decision, him being basically "well you arrived home and wanted sex, what was I supposed to do", which is just bad writing.
If they truly wanted to write Penny being pregnant, they could have chosen the condom to fail and Penny deciding she's ok with it. Or a scenario where they were both drunk and just had an unprotected sex, cause drunk people aren't known for smart decisions. The way it's written now, you can't call Penny a willing participant, because her judgement was impaired and it was on Leonard as the sober one to make responsible decisions. I also personally don't like the whole "have unprotected sex one and bam, you're pregnant", cause it's actually not that easy usually, but that's a rant for another day.
@@PetraP01 translation: it’s not ok for Leonard to be negligent in a moment of passion, but it is perfectly acceptable for Penny to be reckless at any given time.
I could be wrong about this, but I’m pretty sure that Penny has been on birth control in previous seasons of the show. And even if she was not, there are other non-hormonal forms of birth control (IUDs, for example) that are far more consistent and effective than condom usage. There’s also the (riskier) option of getting her tubes tied, which is never given any consideration in the show.
Instead, we are led to believe that Penny’s preferred form of birth control is reliance on Leonard with condom usage. And I’m sorry, but that’s either incredibly selfish of Penny to put all the responsibility on him or it’s evidence that she wasn’t actually certain about not wanting kids. Considering she never brought up the idea of not having children until season 12, I’m leaning toward the latter.
And yes, I would still call Penny a willing participant. She was drunk, but she also does not debate that she initiated everything. And we also aren’t taking about a one-night stand: Leonard and Penny are a married couple who have been together for years.
People get careless in the heat of the moment. And sometimes, that carelessness results in a pregnancy.
In Grey´s Anatomy, Meredith explains how is life after been raised by a woman that didn´t want kids and I find that absolute on point. You can "convence" a woman to keep the baby, but you won´t be able to force the love for that child.
Wonderful video, I hope to see more from you soon!
I'm a bit of a contradiction.
I am childfree and single, with no intentions of marriage or fatherhood, ever. That being said, I do have a soft spot for children, and desire, more or less, to be a godfather. I do love my nephew and niece. I tend to sympathize with children a lot because I can remember what being a kid was like. I grew up with some awful adults and I want to help empower children.... with stories and books (I'm a writer in working progress).
I get that it seems like a contradiction, but this mindset is quite common among childfree people.
A lot of childfree people love spending time with children, maybe even helping raise them and love helping out parents by babysitting or supporting them in other ways. They just don't want the parent role.
But the childfree aunt/uncle or grandparent-like role is also very important and valuable. Raising children is a huge (time- /money-/energy- consuming) task, almost any parents are extremely grateful for help. Directly or even indirectly in smaller ways.
@@Tessa_Gr like they said, it takes a village to raise a child.
Im child free but that doesn’t mean that I hate children. I have a total of 5 nieces and nephews that are my everything. I love and take care of them like they were my own because they are literally my world. 🥹💕
I think that actually makes perfect sense. Some people have the preconceived notion of "So you don't want to have kids because you don't like or care about them" which my response would be "I don't precisely because I do". I'm painfully aware of the money, psychology, health, support, general risks and responsibility it takes to have children because of personal experiences. I would be very concerned if I *did* want to have kids despite everything I've learned.
@@artlover5060I think the preconceived notion exists because of those who are very vocal about how they’d make bad parents because they don’t like kids and/or don’t want the responsibility. Sadly, it paints a picture to the general public that all childfree-by-choice people have the same mindset. Really the only people who know different are parents who have personal friends or family members like you. It’s another example of how social media distorts perceptions of reality, unfortunately. 😞
I always knew I didn't want to experience childbirth/motherhood, but I also used to think that if my hypothetical future husband really wanted biological children, I would likely concede to have just one. But over time, I noticed, whenever there was a fictional relationship where one character wanted kids and the other one didn't... it was always the one who initially didn't want kids who would change their mind. And then there's real-life society as well, with its amatonormative expectations of making a nuclear family being The Normal Life Path. And I wondered, why the heck do I have to be the one to change my mind? If the opportunity ever arises, I'd like to create a story where a couple with differing opinions decides to be childfree, instead.
Making a character have kids is a sign that the writers don't know what else to do with them and are making too much money to stop the show. Honestly, that could be an arc or an episode all on their own. A character seeing their friends and co-workers start to have families and wondering what their place is and how they're going to make up for being child-free, only to realize that they don't need to fill a "void" and they don't have to justify their decision. They can live for the sake of living and not for a theoretical life.
The Owl House also has great examples of child-free adults. All of the adults that aren't introduced as a character's parent are explicitly or implied to be childless, although Eda and Darius do take on parental roles and King officially adopts himself as Eda's son
Finally a video about this. I hate how often this troupe is used, in a way it feels like the message "you might think you be happy childfree but here let me convince you its not that way and it works"
What irks me the most about this trope is that they say things like "You'll understand once you become a parent" or "when you'll have kids it will come to you naturally" as if parenthood is automatically installed in someone's brain when their kids are born. Parenthood is not automatic and it doesn't come naturally, it is a hard learned skill. Parenthood isn't instinctive, even people who babysat, love kids and who wanted to become parents all their lives will struggle. It's really annoying and insulting when they portray it as this easy peasy "just get pregnant and the rest will come on its own" thing
"I know better what's good for you"
My favorite trope is the reluctant father adopts weird little outcast. (Witcher, mandalorian, last of Us, pretty much all of pedro pascal's characters). This gives me a different perspective on that trope but I still love it.
I agree with you. I’m childfree and I sometimes have to justify it to others which annoys me. 🙄
Someone referring to themselves as childfree is always hilarious to me. It's such a sad term... like taking pride in being alone... reminds me of the body positivity movement where people are encouraged to take pride in their faults
@@alexndg5260 not having children does not default to being alone. Also, choosing to be alone isn't a bad thing. Not everybody has to find a mate and reproduce.
I think as a woman, unfortunately someone (well, usually other women, sadly) is always judging us for our life choices as it comes to family. You're basically not allowed in society's eyes to be happy single, it seems. Whether you decide to have children or not, someone wants you to justify the decision. If you have one child, people - particularly older women - always ask if you're going to have more, or the bolder question of when you're going to give your child a sibling. But you'd sure as hell better not have more than three kids, because then people are going to tell you you're personally responsible for destroying the environment and overpopulating the planet. My bottom line is there's no decision that someone won't judge you for, so I might as well opt out from worrying about it. And besides, how I decide to structure my family life - or even whether my family is comprised of anyone else at all other than myself - is no one's business but my own.
For myself, I'm pregnant with my first child. I might have a second eventually, but whether I do or don't is nobody's business. Same goes for any woman who is childfree whether by choice or circumstance: it's a personal decision, period.
@@Ad1nfernumConsidering how much of society's problems that are blamed exclusively on white men, I don't think you can complain about that kind of stuff anymore :/
At a certain point, you need to recognize this
@@Ad1nfernum Women/Femmes literally can't do anything without getting flak for their actions, so a lot of childfree/relationshipfree women/femmes such as myself have decided that the only way to not lose the game is to not play at all. Best of luck in motherhood-you'll need it.
This videos great.
You missed Bella Swan - which truly pissed me off.
Bella never wanted kids having parented her mother her whole life. Then all of a sudden she was willing to DIE for a baby.
I guess the only silver lining was the revelation that her child was going to reach maturity (and basically have no choice about having sex with a werewolf) by age 7.
But this series (while I love it in a weird way) has many faults.
I think we should also take in consideration how obsessed she is with Edward.
I don’t think she thought of the baby as a complete different being, but as a result of her and Edward's love that she doesn't want to lose.
Although I don't like how you talk about Reneesme's and Jacob's relationship
I do believe that a lot of feelings towards being childfree can change with age or more importantly once you fall pregnant. Not wanting to have children is one thing but not wanting the child you do have is another, so I can see how she changed her mind. Also she was probably very hormonal and some motherly instinct kicked in
@@gildahobbs8829 I believe that wanting to be childfree is mostly about reservations relating to raising kids. Pregnancy is only a determinant for a very small group of child-free people, especially if they're adults.
Everything weird about Twilight makes sense once you understand that the author is deeply Mormon.
It was a several-months-long torturous slog for me to get through the first book, so I didn't bother with the rest of the series, but from what I've heard about the Twilight series as a whole the plot has so many bizarrely unsettling details that I actually see why so many people (still) enjoy it so much.
In a way, it really does remind me of the Hazbin Hotel Minecraft content farm channel that features, among other things, all of the voices clearly done by shitty AI, outdated character models, Minecraft sets that look nothing like the sets in the show, extremely random and vulgar "plots" that consist of the currently 5 characters (Alastor, Charlie, and Angel Dust were the only 3 characters in these videos for a while, then Husk was introduced, and roughy a week ago Niffty joined the extremely bastardized versions of the team) constantly abusing and creeping on each other while swearing so much it makes the actual 18+/TV-MA show sound fit for preschoolers, and extremely oversexualized clickbait thumbnails that blatantly lie about the actual content of the videos.
The most common plot themes of this channel's videos include Alastor desperately wanting to fuck Charlie (in canon, Alastor is not only super-aroace but also someone who NEVER uses his conventionally-attractive looks or charm to get what he wants beyond smiling constantly, which is honestly fairly unsettling to watch-also, in canon, Charlie is in a entirely-monagamous relationship with Vaggie who for some strange reason has yet to be even mentioned in this content farm channel's videos even though she is the show's deuteragonist, which Alastor fully respects because he doesn't see Vaggie as a serious obstacle to his goal of getting more power and freedom by being Charlie's highly infuential adviser), Angel Dust constantly being horny and desperately wanting to fuck Alastor (in canon, not only has Angel Dust immediately backed off from suggesting that he and Alastor do sexual activities together upon Alastor's refusal both of the only TWO times Angel has ever expressed ANY interest in doing so-and keep in mind that both times Angel was clearly motivated by outside factors, such as getting paid as a sex worker or making advertising that attracts Sinners to the Hotel, but also by the end of the season Angel is visibly becoming a more gentlemanly, "softer" person as a result of relaxing his mask/"show persona" of being brash and extremely flirty/sexually suggestive), and both Alastor and Charlie constantly demeaning Angel Dust and calling him homophobic/queerphobic slurs which neither of them has EVER done in canon.
Literally the entire existence of this channel is blatantly disrespecting everything about the Hazbin Hotel IP and everyone who has ever worked on it, but the videos are so shoddily written and made with such an extremely poor understanding of Hazbin Hotel's plots, characters, settings, and themes that they manage to be entertaining, of only in the most brain-rotting and downright offensive ways possible, to a decent number of genuine Hazbin Hotel fans including myself.
In short, I very much understand the enduring appeal of the Twilight IP despite it being so heavily flawed.
I'm so happy childfree people are coming forward about this, I'm 17 (I'll be 18 this year) and ever since I made the decision of not wanting kids, my family are always like "you'll change your mind when you're older" or try to explain to me how genetics work like bro, i know how it works, they taught us about it in the 4th grade! kids are a huge responsibility and are human beings like the vid said, not just legacy or just tiny human beings you get to boss around or emotionless robots (most people forget that) , I don't want the burden or responsibility of having a kid, that's final
People often think you can't make important decisions because you're young. I also decided at 17 to be childfree. I'm 25 now and guess what... still childfree. The older I am, the more I stand by my decision. Don't let the stupid comments "change your mind".
If you ever change your mind (very unlikely, if you're secure in your decision) it has to come from you. Not because other people told you to. 💜
@@missythesitposter2280if you guys decide to stay child free that is a total valid decision, but I can’t tell you how many people I know (being in my 30s) changed their mind later in life. It happens to a lot of people, but either way your decision is yours to make.
@egrace7707 This often happens because people like to confuse "I don't want kids now" with "I don't want kids ever". My mom used to say to me:
"I didn't want kids when I was your age either. I changed my mind." so I asked:
"And did you mean like... that you NEVER wanted kids ever, or did you just not want them at the time, but it was clear to you that you WILL want them in the future?"
She confirmed for me that it was the latter. And this is also the case for many of those people who "change their mind" in their 30's.
Hope this explains it enough. 🙂
@@missythesitposter2280 fair enough, but I also know people since high school that swore they never wanted kids and are now starting to change their mind on the topic. My point is just because you think you will always feel a certain way about ANYTHING, doesn't mean you will. Its okay to change and grow. And its also ok to not change your mind as well.. The important thing is that you do whats right for you!
@@melaniegrace7707 Sure, I agree with that. Some may change their mind for sure. But when it comes to me personally... If I thought there was ANY little chance that I would change my mind... I wouldn't have called off 2 weddings because of it.
But yes, it's okay to change your mind on anything. What fits best, fits best. ☺💜
David and Patrick from Schitt's Creek. David never wanted kids and when he thinks Patrick does, they sit down and have a mature conversation where Patrick says that having a kid was just one dream, and now he's got a different dream and it's his life with David, and then the series ends and they still don't have kids. Probably my favourite TV couple. (Not because they're gay like would be most peoples reason, they're just cool.)
can we also talk about bridgerton... daphne forcing the duke to make her pregnant even though he didn't want kids? that was so violent
Duke was annoying so whatever
@@aleksandrac9335I'm sorry, but what the hell's wrong with you? "Oh I don't like this person so it was a good thing they were basically raped/coerced into kids, they deserved it", that's how you sound ffs. Have some ounce of basic decency and realize what Daphne did was terrible and was a horrible storyline from the writers.
Another thing in HIMYM that I thought was pretty anti-childfree and breeder propaganda was the episode where Barney starts a holiday called not-a-father's day. Later on Barney is shown hanging out his a groups of guys who like his holiday idea. But it at the end it calls back the episodes beginning joke of the cheerleader effect showing that all the men who joined Barney's holiday appearing to be ugly, nerds, and/or losers. Implying that men who are childfree are by circumstance because they can't find suitable partners due to their appearance. On a different note, did anyone else find it strange that Robin couldn't find any other guys who are childfree and valued independence especially in New York city, a city known for having citizens that are career orientated and having different norms.
yes, and I also found it strange that she felt so sad when she learned she was not able to have children. It's like, they needed her to remain childfree for the arc of the story, but there was no way she was going to actually remain childfree throughout her life unless she had a medical condition.
@@mahivivt they switched her from childfree to childless.
@@mahivivt I agree, I found that super weird too. As someone who, like Robin, is very clear about never ever wanting kids, I would be extremely happy if I ever found out I physically can't have them. It just didn't make much sense for her to cry about it.
@@mahivivtIt wasn’t that she was sad that she couldn’t have them. She was never going to change her mind. She just hated that at first she was making a choice all her own and know she felt like she wasn’t MAKING a choice for her anymore, it was being made for her. And that’s typical of human beings.
We want to exercise our freedom of choice not just go along with something because we HAVE no choice.
Depicting New York City with actual accuracy by showing Robin actually find multiple childfree guys she was interested in (who would want to date her back) would have actually given credence to the idea that (male) childfree people can be perfectly attractive, successful, socially adept, well-adjusted, and dateable-and as we all know, we can't have THAT in a show meant to appeal to Middle America!
April having kids in Parks & Rec bugged me to no end. She never showed the slightest interest and made a comment in an earlier season that she didn't want kids to her husband. And yes, both Bernadette and Penny--neither wanted kids. I actually stopped watching the show when Bernadette got pregnant. Back in the 90s, I hated that Darlene Connor, who also never wanted to have kids ended the original series of Roseanne by having a baby. And then in the reboot, where they retconned so much of the show's 90s finale, they still had her be a mom. Surprisingly, Becky was the child-free woman and yet suddenly, she decided in her mid-40s she wants kids and then has one. There is even a sub-plot of Darlene trying to get pregnant even though she clearly didn't want another child in middle age just to please her partner.
I agree with all of that! And let's not forget King of Queens. It was ridiculous, honestly. Not so much that Doug and Carrie ended up wanting to have a kid. I could accept that, even though it felt forced since neither seemed to have the slightest interest throughout the course of the show. It was that the writers showed such disrespect for the adoption plotline. They adopt their baby girl and it's a happy ending. Then the writers did something disgraceful, which is that they had Carrie suddenly get pregnant. So the message the writers sent the audience was that adoption doesn't cut it. You must have a biological child in order to have a true happy ending.
@@automnejoy5308 they did that with Charlotte too. Why couldn’t it just end with the adoption. Some people can’t have kids and adopt them and that is fine.
April and Andy having kids is for sure the main issue I have with parks and rec. The writers got so caught up in the notion that every couple must have children, and they seemed to forget that really both April and Andy are very irresponsible people, and probably shouldn’t have kids. I also thought it kinda sucked that near the end of the show, they became “more responsible adults” seemingly just so that the writers could then give them children. I always loved April and Andy just being a pair of wacky people that just live to have fun in their own ways, and I think it was a big mistake to have them become “normal” for the sake of children.
It wasn't even April's choice. It was Andy's. And in a very very weird way- Leslie's. I hated that plotline.
If I remember correctly, Katniss didn’t want kids bc of the games, so her able to have them is a good ending to the story. I agree with everything else
I also hate the trope that a pregnancy changes a person. Cobra Kai and Girls are some examples. I think it would be a lot more interesting to see the characters go on a journey of fixing themselves.
sadly a lot of people think a child is a rehabilitation tool
Girls is a great example. I don't know why they took it in that direction
Oh yeah that was so forced on Cobra Kai.
I grew up in a protestant Christian environment where children were always treated as an inevitability rather than a choice. It wasn't until I met my Catholic girlfriend that I learned that it actually was a choice. When I learned that, my analytical brain kicked in, and I realized that there are a plethora of reasons why I wouldn't make a good father, at least biologically. My reasons are based on my genetics and concerns about what passing them on would do to the kid who ends up with them. There are also temperamental reasons, which is a factor that can change, while my genetics-based reasons can't.
I am Chatolic (once I was really into religion, fortunately not anymore now) and not wanting children it's considered a sin...
Once I wanted a lot of children then I grew up, took distance from the religion, thought about myself and understood that I don't want to become a mother...
Is not really a matter of protestant, chatolic or whatever... actually I don't think that there are any religion who support the idea of "choice"...
@sarynamagicfantasy9409 I brought up the religion of my girlfriend to highlight the incongruity of a Catholic who doesn't want children. They bake a promise to have kids right into the wedding vows with the line about accepting the gift of life.
My married friends often envy me my unmarried childfree life ... and I wish that we told the truth about having kids. It is a 24/7 365 job ... you don't get breaks ... there's no sick leave ... and most don't even get vacations. You lose years off your life from sleep deprivation. Your life is overtaken ... if you're a woman your body is NEVER the same ... it's exhausting, infuriating, frustrating ... it takes every ounce of your will-power ... you have to keep going when you're sick, when you're tired, when you are at your end ... you can't just leave ... you can't quit. And if you don't LOVE those kids and LOVE being a parent ... it SUCKS. And I know people who don't like being parents ... and I think we all know lots of people who were raised by people who didn't like being parents. Parenthood and children are the world's biggest and oldest conspiracy. And we need to be more honest if we want to raise better humans.
People also like to act like it’s only an 18 year job.
“Have kids when you’re young, cause then when you’re in your 40s you can go out cause your kids will be grown!”
Like, no, it’s not an 18 year commitment. It’s a rest of your life commitment. Which is why I hate people who use that to tell women in their 20s that they shouldn’t enjoy themselves and their free time or their expendable income. Acting like you can just come back to it in 18 years. Which is absolutely not the case!
My friend and her husband are waiting to have kids, and bc they’re currently DINKS, they take cool trips a few times a year, and I love that for them.
To be fair, about the biggest and oldest conspiracy, it was only pretty recently in terms of human history that we had any kind of real say in the matter. And we’re in a much different place numbers wise than we have been in the past, in terms of total population and childhood mortality rates. So it’s much easier to even adopt a childfree mindset than it would’ve been at other points in history.
What this trope also doesn't consider is that many people have children because their parents want grandkids and they believe they owe them. It would be interesting to see that depicted in media.
That thinking and reasoning makes me so mad, having experienced this in real life. I’m single, and on-the-fence, but my dad and stepmom act like I OWE them grandchildren. My dad even going as far as saying he wants me to have 3-4 kids bc he wants a lot of grandkids.
Like sir, if you wanted a lot of grandkids, you should’ve had more kids. I have one sibling, and the likelihood of either of us having more than two children on purpose, is slim.
Being raised with one sibling, I think two is a good number. It’s a 1:1 ratio. And my thought process was always, how much is college going to cost in 20+ years?!
But the fact that he thinks he can tell us how many kids we should have makes me laugh. Like the angry, bitter, crazy kind of laugh.
Sigh, it's a very familiar laugh. The audacity parents can have is still so surprising! Makes me mad too.
I'm the first born of 4 kids, I'm 30 now and my youngest sister is 18. I've known since before she was born that motherhood is not for me. My mother still believes that it's a phase, lol a 20 year old phase.
My partner and I both grew up with dogs and decided we're better off aa the fun auntie and uncle with a pair of goldies.
@@elise85391 The worst part in my opinion is how they always say they only want what's best for you. And when you were a child and teenager, that they were sacrificing themselves out of love for you.
As an adult, you realize you were not an object of love but an investment. 😤😔
@@elise85391my father used to do that🙄have at least 3 kids and I should hook up with a black guy because he wants 'coffee colored grandkids'🙄 called me 'selfish' and 'sick' for not wanting any kids
@@Pomoscorzo I fortunately didn’t really experience that, but I am so sorry that you did! It’s really awful the way some of the older generations had kids for selfish reasons!!
Claire Fisher from Six Feet Under is also a great child free character. Granted, we mostly see her from the ages of 17-22, but the show demonstrates that she never has kids and along with her chocie to terminate a pregnancy in season 3, i think, shows her as perfectly satisfied in life focusing on her photography and connections to her family.
You’re 100% correct about Cici in the Nanny also with the amount and ways she’s spoken about her own mother there literally no way having a baby would all of a sudden wake up some sleeping material side she was “repressing”
What changed Bernadette's mind on having kids? I dropped the show long before it ended; but, I vividly remember her explicitly stating her hatred of kids and never wanting them due to her childhood stuck raising her siblings. And that disappointed Howard.
So.....what happened?
As you can imagine, Howard immediately told his mum about Bernadette's decision before talking to her, so there's that. In one episode where Howard was acting overly affectionate due to something going on at his job and she complains about it, he "shoots back" at her by saying she made them have a baby whenshe was taken off a project- very spur of the moment. So all in all, it was not her actually changing her mind (at least not rationally).
@@evemoon8741 If I'm reading this correctly, she just.....up and decided to have a baby? Because she needed something else to do or whatever complications happened due to being taken off a project?
Just unceremoniously dropped as a hand wave?
Nothing. Howard just wanted them and pushed the idea.
People who think Alan Grant wanted to be a parent at the end baffle me… not letting two scared children die doesn’t mean you want to make more.
Yeah. I saw it more as he learned to care about children instead of being mean to them, but not that he wanted to be a dad. I am childfree and I love children and am quite good with them. People often see this as a confusing contradiction and can't understand it.
@@Evamarie41 Yes exactly!! Alan went from disliking children in general to realising that they were their own people, and by the end he genuinely cares for Lex and Tim. But that doesn't automatically mean he wants to be a father - just that he doesn't mind kids now jsd;fkhsa;ldfhs some childfree people don't like kids, and some do!
Let characters care for and even mentor children without going full parent!!! Plenty of childfree people still like kids just fine, they just don't want to have one around 24/7.
Yeah , it always looked more to me that he had just grown to like kids, not that he wanted them himself. His heart had grown a few sizes
I’m also someone who’s known that I want to remain childfree since a young age (12) and have never wavered. I haven’t watched most of these shows, but a big offender that made me simultaneously furious and distraught was the Christmas comedy movie Four Christmases. At first I thought it was going to just be a relatable movie about being the childfree couple amongst wild family members who are so different from you. But alas, at the end, the woman is swayed and decides she wants kids and has to convince her man that they should have some. It was so frustrating to watch, especially when the rest of my family loved the movie, while I just wanted to cry.
As a deliberate child free woman who's never had the desire to have children since early childhood I have given up on feeling recognised in deliberate child free characters in media, it feels like setting myself up for disappointment.
And it is not just is women who get these speeches of: "oh, you'll change your mind yet", my mother in law confided in me even she gets them on my and my husband's behalf. She has my full permission to answer anyone I have my tubes tied, and am happier for it.
Why do you need that at all? I'm child free and perfectly happy and I never once thought "I need to see more child-free characters in media". Why? The only people who feel the need to see this representation are either people who aren't sure of their choices so they need validation, or people who are constantly pressured to have kids so they feel guilty of not having them. Like, shows and movies are just (mostly dumb) entertainment, not the most important thing in life that decides what is good and what is bad. Why would you need validation from TV?
@@missAlice1990 I don't need validation at all, all the validation I need is seeing my three nephews and two nieces, and take in the enormous time, money, and effort it takes my family to raise them, added with the sincere recognition that while I love those children for who they are, I do not have that primal hind brain that decides I am automatically happy whenever I am near perfectly behaved children I've come to care about on a familial level.
It is nice to consume media and see serious characters, in stead of characters that are played for comic relief in which one recognises themselves on some level.
I don't think I would have had kids if I hadn't accidently them, one when I was only 17. As everyone know an immature person with bad finances and planning skills is exactly the type who should be in charge of helpless, tiny humans.
Yes, I love my daughters and can't imagine my life without them, but mostly because that would be like trying to imagine the world if the telephone was never invented. Far to alien to even know where to start. But I think a lot of the reason people have kids are silly. My sister is child-free and it's so aggravating to watch people try to talk her into having them. I encourage my daughters to not have kids just so they have an alternative voice on the matter.
Thank you so much for making this video!
I was sooo upset over that Brooklyn 99 episode where Amy immediately decides to break up with Jake simply because he's not sure if he wants kids. I get that if one partner wants kids and the other doesn't that is a valid reason to end things, but she was so quick and even though it was portrayed as a positive thing for Jake, the whole situation looked so unhealthy because she put so much pressure on him to change his mind right then and there.
8:36 "People who are secure in their own life choices don't feel the need to push them on to others."
Boom. Right to the heart. The answer to nearly all social problems.
Kudos to friends for having Monica adopt a kid btw...
I don't think she had much of a choice. They both had fertility problems.
@@lordtette That's what OP means. The writers _made_ them have fertility issues so that they would adopt. They could have easily just had Monica and Chandler have biological children, but they purposely didn't.
i think one show that did it well was daisy jones and the six. (spoilers ahead) daisy loves children. she has a natural instinct and inclination with babies and children. but she tells her friend that is a mother she doesn't want kids because she knows what it feels like for a parent to mistreat them and she can't bear to do that to her own children. her friend tells her "and that's exactly why you won't." it was then daisy let herself start to think about being a mother. in the end it's revealed she did have a kid after she got her life on track and she credited her friend for seeing something in herself she couldn't see at the time. i think it was done very well in that it felt natural and didn't feel forced. so many other stories it feels very forced.
True! I really liked that about Daisy, specially when you also have Camilla, someone that I believe always wanted children as well, and Karen, someone who doesn't want children, and ends up not having any, even she could've had them
A lot of shows won't let characters be happily childfree and stay that way. The writers force children on them. Usually a new baby's name is Cousin Oliver. The baby is a sign that the show jumped the shark.
It always felt very objectifying how many people think a human's entire purpose for existing is to reproduce. Its not like were an endangered species. In fact I think 8 billion people is quite enough at this point.
Thank you for talking about this toxic trope. I'm childfree as well and I hate when ppl say..oh that will change when you are older. But I know myself the best, and I don't want children. I also want to get sterilized in the near future so I don't have have to worry while haveing an active sex live. Also the dopple standard in our society sucks as well...like if a man says "oh I don't want children" then thats get accepted easily..but if a woman says she doesn't want children then they tell her that she will not be happy or that her mindset will change when you gets older or find the right partner...it sucks so much.
MY favourite childfree character is and probably will always be Lara Croft. I grew up playing her games and I loved her as a character. She's independent, she's out there living amazing adventures. She just does what she's passionate about. And she's perfectly happy that way. I am childfree and I have always known I don't like children or babies and have never ever had any interest in them. It was very positive having that one character whose life didn't revolve around having a family.
I haaated Penny's ending. Not all the couples needed to have children, and she even SAID she didn't want to if I remember. So the ending was absolute garbage and felt so patronising.
I say this as someone who is somewhat a hybrid between "childless" and "fence-sitting", people should only be parents if they actually want and desire to be parents. Otherwise, you'll end up with unhappy adults in unhappy marriages in which the child is caught in the crossfire of their dysfuntional relationship.
If someone has no interest in becoming a parent and continuing their legacy, then that's their choice. Just because you're happy with having kids, doesn't mean the other person will. We're all different, and we all have different perspectives and opinions on things.
What do you mean, "continuing their legacy"? Children are people, not a monument to their parents.
@@tbotalpha8133 I didn't mean to say that in a derogatory manner towards children. I was just pointing out that someone who doesn't want to pass on their genes shouldn't forced to do so jsut because society says so.
@@thebatmanofneo-gotham5667 "Lineage" would have been a better choice of word than "legacy", in that case.
@tbotalpha8133 Well, in that case, I apologize for my choice of words. I'll be more mindful of that next time.
And it’s absolutely something that couples should discuss BEFORE marriage!!! And you should be on the same page before getting married too! Divorce is expensive, and time consuming, and so are weddings for that matter.
I’m in the same situation as you, and I want to be absolutely certain before getting married that my future husband and I are on the exact same page about kids.
I have severe tokophobia, which is my reason to be childfree (next to the other obvious reasons: freedom, autonomy, my health, queer identity, my own mental health and not actually wanting kids, duh). I had to quit watching Brooklyn 99 because there was this sudden baby plot I didn't need nor wanted. To see that it actually ended up with them getting a child makes me happy with that decision, so thank you for giving me closure. Keep it up, we need more videos on the topic!
Using your "queer identity" as an excuse is just flat out dumb and a slap in the face to every queer couple and people who've had kids, which can be done in many ways. Don't use queerness as an excuse.
@@mulqueen20231. it’s not an excuse. Calling it such can be quite damaging. 2. the queer community isn’t a monolith. What is their queer identity for one person, can be wrong for the next. Both experiences are okay and valid and deserve to be addressed.
@@mulqueen2023no one is giving "excuses" for not having kids, because having kids is not an obligation. Freak.
@@IxiaRayneThank you for replying, and yes, you are right. My queer identity is that I am a genderqueer masc, with high T, but born afab. Being a "mother" and being pregnant - losing my bodily autonomy and choice over my life - would go against my whole identity and end with me going through severe gender dysphoria I have been fighting all my life already.
If you are queer and want kids, please go ahead, all the power to you. But don't shame other queer people for not wanting any - you don't know what their story, identity, or experience is.
Idk if this fits but im working on writing a book and one of the main characters raised his siblings and is deciding if he wants his "own" kids or not and ends up not having them
As a parentified child I am giving you a standing ovation!!!
3:16 Something magical does happen when you hold your own child for the first time, and it is completely separated from whether or not you like children in general. But If you dont have children ofc thats hard to Imagine.
Also there are Bad parents, Just Like there are Bad people in general. But Most parents connect with their children in a way completely unimaginable If you didnt experience it
To be fair, the only reason that Katniss didn't want kids was because for the longest time she was living in a place ran by people that actively preyed on children and treated them with unrelenting brutality. Once she was free of that world, she finally felt safe enough to have kids of her own. She just wanted to feel safe and free.
I always wanted to have kids when i was a little kid, my sister thought i would be a mom as a teenager simply because that was the earliest it could happen. But as i got older, the state of the world and of my life was so depressing that the thought of willingly bringing an innocent child into the world brought me to tears of grief. How could i inflict this misery onto a baby, with no way to protect themselves and no guarantee that i could do it for them? If i ever end up financially stable and mentally capable of it i might be a foster parent or adopt, but i will never bring a baby into this dumpster fire of a society
thank you for making this video on this topic.... because i too decided in my teenage that i will never have child.... and recently i got annoyed when i told one of my colleague {who already has 2 children} that i will not going to have kids thus child-free, and her reaction was completely opposite as in not supportive, she was telling me that it's not your choice, you can't escape the motherhood and all.... and the most irritating thing she told me was "once you will have a child na, you will love and the most precious feeling inn the world is being a 'mom'", crap... so yeah people don't wanna believe in "child-free" people.
oh and i am from INDIA so its going to be more hard to deal and express this decision of mine. but thank you sooo much for this.
It's absolutely crazy how obsessively controlling, manipulative, and pro-Birth society is in the US.
Try Latin America and Asia.They are worse.
If you think childfree characters are treated badly in tropes which reflect real life, wait until you see how sex-free and partner-free people are treated by the society after movies such as “The 40 y/o virgin.”
I loved the movie Aristocats growing up and I still love it. And I also love the character of Madame Adelaide. She's happily single and childfree and gives her attention to her beloved cats that she makes her heirs. Also, I love that she's an elderly lady that is still fashionable and GORGEOUS. Plus she's just a lovely character that treats everyone well. Her last line in the film is that she's starting a foundation to care for all the alley cat's in Paris.
I'm a mom and always wanted to be, but for the life of me I don't get why people have such problems accepting that some people just don't want children. My best friend is childfree and she's very happy and enjoys life. And why shouldn't she? She always knew she doesn't want kids and I always supported her. I don't think she will ever regret that.
OMG you’re experience is so similar to mine, I also knew from the age of 11 I didn’t want children and spent up to my 40’s being told I would change my mind, or grilled as to why I didn’t want children. I’m now 45 and I have no regrets. I have always been honest in relationships, as I do think it’s a make or brake life choice.
I'm a middle school teacher in my late twenties and the number of parents who push this topic onto me without any invitation and insist that I just don't know what I'm talking about (yet) is insane. Ma'am, I take care of 25 kids AT ONCE five days a week, while you as a stay-at-home-mom make me fulfill many if not most of your parental duties and then misuse me as your personal therapist if anything goes wrong in your or your kid's life. Most of the time I don't even have the energy to load the dishwasher at night. So I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about.
I'm glad you put Penny in the thumbnail cos that pissed me off so much.
The writers for The Big Bang Theory did it not once, but _twice_
First, they took Bernadette, a character that has voiced out her disdain for children for several seasons only for her to have two kids on accident and then suddenly changing her mind off screen. No gradual change in attitude or anything. She just likes kids now.
And same with Penny. It would've been fine if she changed her mind or if she accepted the accidental pregnancy but the writers didn't wanna show us that.
Even Sheldon pointed it out. He said that last time he checked, Penny didn't want kids so he wasn't sure if he should congratulate them or not. And the writers made him look like the asshole in the situation when he's the only one who thought of Penny's feelings cos Leonard got what he wanted regardless -- Penny and for her to have his baby.
It takes agency away from the female characters and makes it seem like all women are good for is having kids whether they wanted them or not.
Adelaïde Bonnefamille is an absolute icon and I hope I get to be half as happy as her at her age. It's also quite funny that her last name means "good family" even though she never "had" one, because herself, her friend and her cats is all the family she ever needed, and it's a quite a good one indeed.
I miss Close Enough so very much, and part of that is not knowing if Bridgette and Alex ever decide to become parents. The first episode showed them not wanting any, but there were hints that they could have been parent material given time. Having a character change their mind on being child-free is plausible. But it should be done in good taste, at the same time!
Temperance Brennan going full on mother in Bones seemed super unlikely to me
love seeing this topic talked about more!
happy this popped up in my recommended feed too
great job on the video!
Another thing that I feel like needs to be talked about is how difficult dating is when you don't want kids someday. How it literally eliminates like 90% of available guys, because most of them want kids.
Everyone has their own choice and whatever, but it's just exhausting dating someone that you think is on the same page as you and then later on he says "Well, I'd hoped you would change your mind along the way." Just makes dating so much harder.
It gets better as you get older, some guys already had kids and they are grown up or never wanted any as well. Even when I was in my 30's I met a lot of guys that didn't want kids.
I'm childfree also I knew it pretty early on that I didn't want to be a parent I'm an aunt and that's good enough for me it's better this way
I agree on everything except for Katniss being childfree. Despite her adamant claim in the first movie that she'd never have children, she was conditionally childfree: she didn't want to have children because she didn't want them to go through the reaping. Once the Hunger Games are over, that condition was removed. It still took her years to decide to have children because the fear of loss had been multiplied by the loss of SPOILER. But I don't think that she ever was adamantly childfree. She just didn't want anyone she cared for being reaped. So I see why after ten or fifteen years of therapy, she would have children. She was never really against having children, she was against seeing them csrried away to the games. Those are the conditionally childfree. People who say "Not unless I find a person that is worth raising children with", "not unless I have financial stability" and the like, which makes a lot of sense.
EDIT: Yeah, most people had noticed this, too :-)
I think in the beginning, the video put Katniss into the "childless" territory, where she had a very clear set of circumstances in which she would 100% have kids. When she imagines herself and Peeta having children, it's never with disgust, just fear of what the star crossed lovers angle might do to them and how they will cope with the Reapings.
UGH. I hate this trope so much, and they do it all the time to obviously CF characters. I deplored when Paul and Jamie on "Mad About You" had a baby. Like, WHYYYYYY? They did it also to Miranda on "Sex and the City" and Toni Childs on "Girlfriends." YUCK.
Thank you for this! I was really bothered by Penny's pregnancy by the end of the series! I am a mom and always wanted to have kids, but I definitely think society reinforces this idea that you have to be a parent to be happy, which isn't true at all. My best friend is living proof you don't; she and her common law partner just want fur babies and she still loves and spoils my son!
Wonderful video, that ending special shoutout is the truest of them all.
I think a big reason why many people have a negative view of child free people is there is this common misconception that child free = child hater. Dr. Grant is a good example of how that isn't the case though, he doesn't want kids of his own but he went to great lengths to protect already existing children. Most of us that choose to be child free are like that, I don't want my own kids but I love my niece and nephews so much.
Captain Holt has Cheddar, once you have a corgi, you don't need anything else.
But seriously, what gets me is how many of these supposedly childfree characters end up "accidentaly" pregnant. Yes in some cases the birth control failed, but statistically, with proper use, you can have a healthy sex life and not ever get pregnant. But apparently contraception is a foreign concept in many of these TV and movie universes.
I was a HUGE fan of The Big Bang Theory, but to this day haven't watched the entire season finale. I stopped watching after Penny and Leanord were talking in private and revealed to the audience she was pregnant. This only WEEKS after her character had stated she never wanted children. I was so pissed that I immediately stopped watching, and deleted the recording from my DVR. Then, haven't had a desire to watch the rest.
I’ve never thought positively about having children so it’s really weird to me that it’s so expected for that to be everyone’s happy ending and that people would just have children without actually wanting them (obviously, if they were forced to that’s a different story).
I am writing like two stories atm and have never once considered their happy endings would end in them having children. I don’t think I’ve thought that for any of my characters who aren’t already parents in it. A lot of my characters are queer though, and I am aro ace so that’s probably something to do with it.
Samantha from SATC! She was my absolute favorite.
I HATED that they made the following characters have children..
Doug and Carrie from The King of Queens.
Gabby and Carlos from Desperate Housewives.
Hannah from the show Girls.
Miranda and Steve from SATC.
Is it really true that most childfree people have put a lot of thought in it? Because I have thought about it for about 40 seconds or so in my entire life. I don't have children for the same reason I didn't persue singing or not having a tattoo: I am just not interested in it. Even if women have a higher factor of urgency in this matter, how much more time would you invest into consideration. Electra doesn't sound as if it was a tight decision for her to make, so I assume she also lacks interest or has pondered her interest against consequences and responsibility.
I knew by my teens that that wasnt the path for me. There was already something *off* in my behaviour that others were starting to pick up on(wasnt diagnosed BPD til my mid 20's but the signs were there) and I figured If I'm not emotionally stable, then I have no business being a parent. It's not fair on me or the kid. As I grew up more, this belief became solidified as an ideal against those with mental illness, especially one that includes a mood disorder in its symptoms, having any close relationship with kids as this actually effects and damages their long term development into adults. Also growing up with a near existence libido(Thyroid I'm looking at you), I wasn't really interested in having sex or partners either that much. It didn't seem like a big deal. Much later, fate underlined my belief by giving me Inflammatory Breast Cancer of which, I found out after I healed, that one of the known side effects of Chemo and Radical Radiotherapy(essentially a double dose of radiation) is infertility. I never bothered to be tested but figured it was probably true. I still have people asking me when I'm gonna marry and have kids. Firstly, I'm well past safe child bearing age, secondly, when did my private life become anyone's business? You want kids, have them but leave the rest of us child free individuals, alone. Not everyone wants a parasite growing inside them thats gonna burst free and ruin, if not take away, their life. I mean that literally as I know some women actually still die during childbirth. For me and others like me, its just not worth the risk.
@@starscreamthecruel8026 That's what I was talking about. It's just something you know. You may picture yourself being a parent in certain situations, but these re-evaluations are always triggered from outside. It's not a question which lingers inside of me.
I think it depends. I thought for a while in my teens and early twenties that i wanted kids, but later, and when i had two boyfriends in a row who were very pushy about the idea of marriage and kids after graduating from university. Rubbed me the wrong way, but we broke up for different reasons, whatever. And when i started thinking about it and i realised i thought i wanted kids because it's kinda a default choice but no. I can have fun watching kids for a miniscule time, but mostly tolerate them especially the loud and will try to snatch and break whatever in their reach type. I don't want that. And pregnancy. Idk where this came from, but I'm kinda afraid of pregnant bellies. Some of them look like a balloon about to burst😢
@@stacykrasnikova7744that's a legit fear. The grotesque changes that a pregnant woman goes through as the condition stretches and distorts her body out of shape is quite frightening. To me, all it kept doing was making me think of those hideous pod eggs in Alien that burst out and latch onto you before later the creature bursts free killing you in the process. And of course, society shames them for becoming pregnant by telling them, they should stay home now, so no one has to see that you are pregnant because you're not attractive anymore and once the kid is born, the Mom is tied to it like a siamese twin til late teens before she should even THINK of doing anything without it for herself. Its like a prison sentence and its horrible. You shame them for not wanting kids then you bully them afterwards and treat them like sub humans once they get pregnant. For woman who genuinely find peace and happiness and want kids just because they WANT kids and not for whatever other reason that they think is gonna be good for them later on, that's fine but the vast majority, I think, would think twice if they realised they have other options. I never wanted kids but If I wasn't so screwed up mentally by my Dad, I probably wouldn't have minded being someone's eccentric Aunt or something you know? Course I have no siblings so i'd just be an eccentric friend that their Mom knew kinda thing but you get the idea.
Maybe it's more innate for other people, but I've definitely spent a significant amount of time and energy on the "having kids" issue.
I grew up in a cult, so up until I left in my early 20s, marriage and children were a given. Not only children, but as many as I could possibly pump out. I grew up in a family with 4 kids, and I always felt like my family was small. My partner is one of 6, my mom is one of 7, I have an aunt who is number 11 of 12. Not only was the idea of just not having children foreign, but even the idea of only having 1 or 2 children was practically unspeakable unless you had legit infertility issues, in which case everyone would be very sad for you and pray for you.
The one thing I did know growing up is that I wanted to have a career. I knew from a very young age that I wanted to work in healthcare as a mid-level practitioner, so I always figured that I would put off children slightly (as in, not try to get pregnant on my honeymoon like a lot of my friends and relatives did) to pursue my goals.
I got married at 21 to a man who was 7 years older than me, who later turned out to be an abusive alcoholic. After about a year, I decided that the way to fix that was by having a baby, so I went off birth control and started trying to conceive.
Thank everything in the universe, it didn't work. I barely escaped that marriage with my life, it destroyed my mental and financial health, derailed my career, everything.
Then, when I was in the most vulnerable place of my life, my mother's husband (a man who had known and raised me since I was 7 years old, mind you) decided that that was the perfect time to groom and SA me.
Fortunately, I met my current partner, and he got me out of that situation. It took a few years, but things eventually stabilized. We bought a house, I went back to school, things are good now.
I also learned that part of the reason I never got pregnant with my ex was me. I have since been diagnosed with endometriosis, uterine fibroids, and pelvic congestion syndrome. I also have a short luteal phase. My partner's brother found out that he had an extremely low sperm count along with DNA issues, and he and his wife have had to do IVF. So we tested my partner and he has similar issues. The difference is that my SIL has no fertility issues, she has tons of healthy eggs and has never had an issue carrying to term, whereas my lady parts are not exactly fetus-friendly. The first full round of IVF they did, they collected and fertilized 28 eggs from my SIL, and only got 1 healthy embryo. The second round, they collected and fertilized 35 eggs, and only ended up with 2 healthy embryos. That's how bad the sperm quality is.
So, it looks like the only way we ever could get pregnant is via IVF, and considering how hard that whole process has been on my in-laws with just the sperm problems, it's probably not going to work out. At least once my SIL is pregnant, she can carry a baby to term no problem.
My biological clock is ticking (I'm 33 currently), and it all just feels like it's not in the cards.
As far as my feelings go, I can't say I feel super strongly one way or the other. I like children for the most part, I adore my nieces and nephews, and I've worked in Pediatrics for 5 years and enjoyed it a lot. At the same time, I enjoy the fact that no children live in my home. I like the ability to be alone, I like that my partner and I can just up and leave on the weekends if we wanted. I'm good at being an aunt, I don't know if I would be a good mother. Half the time, I can barely take care of myself.
There's also the fact that I was heavily parentified growing up. I practically raised my youngest two siblings, so I know full well what goes into having children. I love my career, and now that it's finally back on track I want to give it my full attention. Sometimes, I wonder what it would be like to be pregnant and give birth, and part of me wants to experience it, but when I think about having to take the baby home in the end, permanently, I lose some steam. Maybe if I went through it, I would feel differently, but then I hear people talk about regretting motherhood and hating being a parent, and you can't go backsies on that.
As for my partner, he's in the same position. He definitely doesn't feel the "call of fatherhood". He's extremely awkward and uncomfortable around babies. He just barely started interacting with our nephew and he's 2. Sometimes he thinks that it would be cool to pass on his name or genetics, but he never actually talks about wanting to be a parent. Other times, he says having children would be a horrible idea, and he's happy that we're child free.
All of this is to say - for some of us, it isn't that cut and dried. Right now, I'm totally fine with never having children of my own. Sometimes, I think I should reconsider, and I go through it all again. I withhold the right to change my mind. But I also just genuinely think it wouldn't happen even if we tried. I certainly don't want any right now.
Honestly, sometimes I wish I just knew either way. I think feeling "meh" about it is enough to justify not doing it, but sometimes I wish it was just a definite, "I've always known I didn't want children" or "I've always known I wanted to be a mommy". I have strong, distinct feelings about my career, so I know exactly what it feels like to have that conviction, but not on motherhood. It would certainly be a lot easier to just automatically know and have always known, I envy that TBH. But that's just not how it is for me.
Rather than having to even make labels for different groups of non-parents, it would be easier if we just started normalizing asking people why they WANT to have children vs asking why they DON'T have children. I'm childfree, but I think it's fine if I change my mind, and it's fine if I don't. Whether or not I've felt this way since I was young shouldn't have any bearing on the validity of my not having kids now. The bottom line is, we shouldn't be expected to give an explanation as to why we don't have kids, but rather, why we DO. Unfortunately, with the overturn of Roe, the stigma around parental responsibility is only going to get worse.
Ahhhhhhhhhhh you have no idea how happy this makes me to see a video highlighting this!!!!!!!
April having a kid I hated, I wanted them to adopt animals. Robin and Barney again hated. Penny same. I did love that Boyle adopted though.
I'm surprised you didn't bring up Bridgerton. Dude was strictly child free, but girl took advantage of him to get preggo. And HE is somehow the villain for putting up boundaries and being upset about it. I'm still grossed out about that.