Homosexuality does not - repeat does NOT - belong in a sport of tight ends and wide receivers; where padded men throw each other to the ground over a leather ball and touchdown in each other's end zones. Play it straight or don't play it all.
oh just come out already girl-friend, your hate speaks volumes on how you feel deep inside, unless your willing to live in Rusher, in where there are still gays despite your hate for them
shore i'm not all that good at commenting as i'm dyslexic and i have not done many youtube reply's but thx for the constructive criticism i can Handel that unlike some religious gay hating closed minded twits
Men always respond to women complaining about sexual harassment like they wouldn't mind. But the moment there's a gay guy near them all of a sudden the fear of sexual harassment is all too real. Just saying.
Jonathan was dead on right about what he said and the host is dead wrong. If it is okay for a gay men and straight men to be naked in the same room, then why is it not okay for a straight men and women to be naked in a same room?
Because straight men and women are different genders. In women's sports there's a lot of gay and straight women in the same locker room and you don't hear shit from them. Vilma's being a douchewad.
pugghead The only fat middle aged men are the heterosexual ones and I find you disgusting so yeah, Stay the fuck away from me and other women, pervert!!!
pugghead But what about the gay guy in the ladies looker room? Knowing he's gay, maybe a lot of women wouldn't mind. But the gay guy would feel the same way about dressing/showering with straight women as you would dressing/showering with a gay guy. I think (and this is coming from a gay man) that a third looker room may be a solution. Straight Men (physically/anatomically men), Straight Women (physically/anatomically women), and Other. Fellow members of the GBLT community might scorn me for this, idk. But considering that you're uncomfortable, and we're often just as uncomfortable (believe it or not), it may be the best solution.
pugghead I hate Christians but I am not a bigot. I want separate but equal facilities for blacks and whites but I am not a racist. I hate women but I am not a sexist. I don't want to share a public facility with Jews but I am not anti-Semitic.
Personally I find open showers draconian. I dont want people seeing me shower, dont matter what their sexuality is. What the NFL cant afford to put doors and cubicals in its rooms to ensure privacy?? If my shitty little school in UK could afford to, why not them??
DAVID Edwards Indeed, last thing I want is someone seeing me wash my ass. Respectively, I equally dont wana see someone washing theşr own ass. Or even worse... NOT WASHING THEIR ASS!!!!
Ebola If it's that normal, what's so disgusting about it? If it's perfectly normal, why does it offend you to have to see it? You sound like a Victorian young lady. You're still ignoring the fact that something you care not to see is the very image you just planted in the mind of everyone who reads your post. You can't be that dense not to see my point.
So then i should be allowed in the womens locker room , " just because im straight doesnt mean im attracted to every girl out there" See what i did there?
***** I think it is fine to have gender neutral bathrooms. They wont turn into orgies unless the people are perverted nut jobs. There is a time and place for sex, and people will respect that.
There were rumors about a month ago about Aaron Rodgers possibly being gay. Do you think the Packers' players would care if he actually is? No, he's their franchise QB, most of the players would suck it up. I think players care more about what you can do for the team rather than your sexuality.
This is not a movie. Acceptance by all won't just happen. There would be some angst. As long a Rogers continues to win, he may be given a pass. But any other players wouldn't be so lucky.
slapping each other on the ass happens in most sports, it's just a way of saying well done/well played... as long as you know your not gay there is nothing wrong with it.
No intention behind it aside congratulating your buddy. That's another reason why Vilma is right. While the straight guy doesn't pay attention to a butt tap, a gay guy may have a different reaction. And the uniform is only to maximize performance. What, did you want them to wear robes?
If it's no issue at all (as Ana and Ben are trying to make us believe), how come men and women have seperate locker rooms? Following Ana's aguments, there is no reason for that.
So being sensitive is a female tendency now? I'm pretty sure that's a required part of being a decent human being. Plus, women often exaggerate their feelings to appear more sensitive and caring. I know I have.
The problem you come to in the end is when does every ones feeling get considered. A girl using the restroom has to use it with boys who say they are transgender. The girls are forced to use the restroom with guys even though they feel uncomfortable. So in the end can a straight man use the same group showers with females because he feels more comfortable that way or is it some how different? In reality we separate showers and restrooms for sexual and privacy issues so if a man or women is sexually attracted to the same sex do we allow a them a buffet of access and freedom? I know it would be impossible to say who is doing what in their personal life, this is just examples of the problem we are quickly headed to. If so why can men and women just start using one restroom and gym showers with no separation? Or is it homosexual men and women have restraint but heterosexual men and women are uncontrollable deviants? That is what you are saying if you say hetero men and women should be separated but transgender who still have their original parts can choose what showers and bathrooms they want to use. Homosexuals can use the restroom and locker rooms of the sex they are attracted to but hetero people must be separate. The protections afforded to men and women for predation and privacy should be respected across all spectrums including sexual orientation. Homosexual men and women are just as capable of the same crimes as heterosexuals but its not equality its special treatment in reality. But that would not be acceptable to say, it would be wrong and verbally lynched.
Excuse you we are not boys claiming to be women WE ARE women, just born in the wrong body how dare you say such drivvle. We don't choose to be this way it's just how it is. By the way do some research what's between your legs doesn't make you who you are or define sexuality. Do you honestly think we want to use a bathroom in public? No we fucking don't, bathrooms are one of the worst parts about being a trans person take you hate and non-understanding somewhere else. PS: Women LOVE to use the restroom with us besides the fact you can't pick out a trans from non trans women, we have better make up, better style and more self confidence.
Isis Morrison no, by every definition you are a boy who FEELS they were born in the wrong sex. If you are right then anyone at any time could say well I feel I was born to the wrong species or anything else. I was born to the wrong age, so I get to run around with pistols on hip no matter the laws of my area. I have no issue with you feeling how you feel, it does not affect my life. When it starts to affect my life or my child's life then it becomes my business. If at 18 you or anyone else decides they want the reassignment surgery go for it and be happy. But feeling a certain way does not change what you are. But if this is the route we as a society are going then do not ask for special treatment ask for equal treatment. So if any boy or girl can FEEL that they are born a certain way and be allowed access to the opposite sex facilities then what stops everybody from doing so. If you do then its not equal treatment, its special treatment. When blacks fought for equal rights. It was the right to use the same facilities, have access to the same educational materials and jobs. It was not to say we want access to these but others can not. So in the end to be fair we should just do away with sex based facilities and all share them equally. But that will not happen because virtually what is being said is heterosexuals are not trust worthy but Homosexuals (or transgender / wrong born sex/ whatever) are trust worthy. I can trust you because you say you FEEL a certain way (but 6,12 or 15 years old never change their minds, meaning they may realize they are gay not transgender) you can use these facilities with the opposite sex. But you hetero people can not because its wrong. Generally its just saying Hetero people just need to accept it and no matter how they feel about the subject my daughter has to share her facilities with a male and my son has to share with a female, but only the ones that say they feel a certain way. Fair treatment for all, not special treatment for some.
I've said this all along. If your argument against the involvement of gays revolves around getting dressed in a locker room, you aren't mature enough to be speaking on the subject in the first place. TEENAGERS can handle changing and showering in a locker room. TEENAGERS. And this adult, multi-million dollar athlete is shy? SO WHAT if a gay guy looks at you? They aren't going to leap on your dick like it's a lollipop. There's also the issue of arrogance, who's to say you're even good looking to the gay guy? Maybe he thinks you're REPULSIVE, you think of that?
I don't know about you, but gay guys love me. I gotta keep them at bay at every turn. I am flattered guys, really I am, but I love the poon. Stop with the screwdrivers and mimosas (sp.), I can't handle all that liquor.
There are different changing rooms for *genders* because they have different *equipment.* Because if there wasn't, women would be raped. I've seen no mass of raped straight NFL players, have you? Plenty of white people were once "uncomfortable" changing in front of black people, we didn't make them their own changing rooms. What you're advocating is basically making them drink from another water fountain, due to your PRIVILEGED SELF not wanting to be uncomfortable. Pathetic.
"Have some fun". Ana you get creeped out by RUclipsr's searching for pictures of your feet on Google. This is about sharing locker rooms with people who are sexually attracted to you. I don't blame him one bit for thinking that's unacceptable.
That's the point though isn't it? IF these gay mates were conspicuously staring at their fellows' feet, and ogling their soles whenever they walked, THEN that WOULD be creepy. But Ana's entire point is that, IF these gay mates were not spotted until NOW, they don't do that. So HOW is sharing a locker room with someone who acts normally toward you and doesn't ogle you the same as having someone who, once they see a video of your (clothed) top half, look for pictures of your feet they can jerk off to?
ana, the points you made against his comment could also be made to advocate unisex dressing rooms and group showers: 'i hate the assumption that straight guys can't handle themselves. they see a pair of breasts and their heads are gonna explode, like "oh my god, boobs! i gotta look at them!" no! they're normal people. they're gonna be respectful in the locker room [...]' of course homosexuals are normal people. normal people who are sexually attracted to men. the only reason why locker rooms are generally divided by sex is sexual attraction (at least the only one i can think of). i'm not at all for making gay players use a separate locker room, but it is perfectly normal to be uncomfortable at the thought of showering with them. if you honestly think it is not, please start using mens' showers, i'm sure nobody will mind.
My thinking precisely. Straight men being out of control is a meme so universal it's amusing to see men being defended. (but only because other men might be uncomfortable) My double standard senses were tingling, despite that fact I agree with you. I got no issue with a gay dude checking out what ass I have (I'm a scrawny fuck) as long as he keeps his hands to himself.
kilroy1964 Indeed, but it's honestly no big deal to afford somebody some slack for personal discomfort. I'm a Brit, and while I'm not shy in most senses, I do struggle with public nudity (or anything near it :P) I make no distinction as to who sees me naked though. Literally makes no difference if they're gay, straight or a freakin martian. If somebody is attracted to me, more power to them (though they may need their eyes tested) if they keep their hands and opinions (mostly. Who doesn't love a wolf whistle, eh) to themselves, what they think in the privacy of their own heads is no business of mine.
kilroy1964 the thing is: i'd bet it IS a big deal to ana, and that she would vehemently attack the idea of providing no alternative to unisex showers. i'll admit that i'm a little prudish, but i wouldn't mind what she said if she applied it universally. what bothers me is the double standard.
kilroy1964 In the summer of 1977 I visited Europe for the first time and was working out in the Olympic Stadium in Munich, which had been repurposed as a public sports center. Imagine my surprise when I discovered the sauna was co-ed and naked women were in there sweating alongside naked men-and not a hint of sexual tension or arousal anywhere. Totally civilized. .
I never like it when people describe "kind, loving, sensitive" as female tendecies. Why would they be? It just adds to the stupid notion that men and woman have to act a certain way, or else they are considered to be abnormal. Just goes to show how ingrained these stereotypes really are.
I don't feel uncomfortable with the idea of a gay guy showering near me, and I don't think there should be a problem with gays in the NFL, however I feel a little uncomfortable when I realise the double standard here. Women usually feel very uncomfortable when others stare at them ,especially naked, and we (myself included) view this as reasonable. Why is it not reasonable for men?
Because of the prejudice you moron!You wouldn't feel uncomfortable if women watching you!Unless if you feel the same way about women watching you then I totally understand you but if you're okay with women and not men,that is what prejudice is.You think that gay men can't control themselves when they see you naked.Come on,if you're that narrow you need to learn more about gay people to understand better so you won't be labelled as a bigot.
The problem with his statement is the assumption that because a guy is gay he wants to look at you. Also most women are uncomfortable with being sized up but unfortunately living in this very sexist society we live in, it is something they have to deal with on a daily basis. They handle it well even though they shouldn't have to at all. If women can handle the occasional creep stare why should men not be able to?
Olie, I'm not particulatly uncomfortable either way. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of getting upset over men being upset about men seeing them naked when we consider it perfectly reasonable for women to get upset over it.
Derrick McCoy see, that's precisely the thing, women aren't expected to handle the occaisional creep stare (and I don't think they should be), but men aren't afforded the same courtesy.
olie171 Nope. Sexuality or sexual preference is different. It is something more personal and is different from prejudice or discrimination on the basis of race or gender. It doesn't matter if a gay or straight guy would control himself in a locker room. If you won't mix men and women in any other locker room situation, no matter how respectful or well behaved, you shouldn't mix straight and gay men either. And no, coaches don't want straight men and women in the same locker room either. Hell, straight men don't like undressing and showering in front of other straight men.
I once had a friend who came out to me that he was gay. Afterwards I was quite uncomfortable being around him in the locker rooms. He actually admitted that he was checking me out and a few other guys. I never said anything to the others about his orientation so I wouldn't out him to the whole school. But he took advantage of that. I'm sick of these libtards saying that straight men are wrong for being uncomfortable with gays looking at them un/dress. They spread lies that they don't receive gratification out of it but THEY DO! They may not be attracted to *every single* guy they see there. But they still ARE attracted to at least some of the guys. It's common sense that a gay man will find some portion of the guys in the locker room attractive.
Well, you are wrong for being offended. You're also dumb for caring whether or not you're being checked out. How does it affect you? Inform us how that changes your experience in the locker room?
Aiden Aude Are you seriously going to say that to me? With your logic, men should be allowed to peak on females in their locker rooms and women are dumb for not wanting guys looking at them. This world sure is headed for a world of craziness when people are attacked for simply being uncomfortable with people checking them out undressing.
Aiden Aude It makes perfect sense actually. If it's okay for gays to peak at straight men while they are undressing, then it is okay for straight men to peak at women when they are undressing.
Again, I'm talking about male locker rooms. Gay males are males, gay females are females. You're using a strawman to attempt to make a point, it doesn't work.
Is there a double standard for the sexual attraction of say gay guys showering with other guys, and how uncomfortable it makes them, then say a girl showering naked with a guy and feeling uncomfortable if that guy looked at her too? Isn't it the same issue? Isn't that why we separated men/women rooms?
Chibi Blast Oh the amount of fun I would get answering that question in the most cruel and blunt way possible. MurkyWaterKid Makes you wonder why they care enough to get offended.
Sort of a south park reference. There was an episode called "eek! a penis!" about a mad scientist that made half penis half mice that ran around the city.
The thing I find fascinating is that straight guys always think that they're SO hot that gay guys will always try to check them out. Most of you guys are not even attractive, this is just hilarious.
I disagree with this to a certain extent. I mean gay guys by definition are sexually attracted to guys. I am a straight man and if I was put in a locker room to change with twenty girls in tip top physical condition, I would definitely find it hard to not look and probably even think about them sexually. Stuck in a room with twenty members of the sex you are attracted to and naked? It would be silly to assume that all gay men wouldn't look, at least some would.
So you're saying a guy is automatically going to be attracted to a girl because she has boobs and a vagina? It works both ways. If a girl thinks a random dude is just going to want to fuck her because she has a vagina, she's dumb. Just because someone has a penis, doesn't mean a gay guy would want them. But hey, maybe it's just wishful thinking.
Anna please; it's not about phobia it's about equality! If gays are allowed to shower with the sex they're attracted too, then so should hetero's be allowed to shower with the sex they're attracted too. Don't make the assumption that just cause they're hetero they'll drool by the sight of boobs and a vagina. Just cause hetero men can be attracted to women, doesn't mean we can't handle ourselves. Show some respect please!
To be fair, the other side would say, "if there was a man surrounded by naked women showering, you're telling me there isn't a good chance they might take a peak or get turned on? Why not expect the same when it comes to a gay guy in a shower full of dudes." Actually penis fair point. I still however think, whatever, get over it. You've been doing it all this time and nothings happened. He's not going to rape you or something. Just calm down.
I just watched a video on how much of a problem a man looking at a fully clothed woman can be for women's psyches and feminists. If that argument holds water, I think Vilma's point is compound a hundredfold considering you are naked in a locker room and thus much more vulnerable.
Dear 'Jordan Cookie', tell yourself not to click on Young Turks videos, if you already know you won't agree, we don't care about your fear of liberty and freedom. Thank you.
Spontaneous Feet What do the young turks have to do with liberty and freedom? they are hyper liberal and the young turks has to be the most biased "news" program Iv'e ever seen.
Jordan Cookie Not familiar with FOX News, then? Liberalism by definition means freedom and acceptance, so you bashing liberalism is essentially saying you hate freedom, it's as simple as that. The fact you see negativity in them saying homophobia is pathetic is really quite funny.
Spontaneous Feet I despise fox news aswell, Call it Faux news because they sensationalize everything. How is liberalism freedom when Liberals want gun control? I love freedom, however Liberalism is not the same as classical liberalism that you are speaking of.
basquat76 How about the fact that high-heels were originally made for men but now are only worn by women? POINT IS THAT FEMININITY AND MASCULINITY IS CULTURALLY DEFINED (pulls hair out of her head).
Honestly if u were in a girls locker room. And there is a sexy chick taking taking a shower wouldn't you creepily stare at her. Hell yes! Would she be creeped the fuck out? Probably. So what I'm saying is that I would be creeped the fuck out. Just as a girl would, and I'm not homophobic I'm saying that I would be OK if he is gay I just don't want him to be gay for me. I mean he can like me but I don't want him trying to flirt with me, and that goes for girls that I don't find attractive too.
mmafyasco It's the assumption that we're checking out guys in the locker room in the first place. We don't. First of all, it isn't the time or place to do so. We are feeling pretty uncomfortable in that environment and just want to get in and out as quickly as possible. The reason you can't go into a girl's locker room., since we're talking about pro sports, is because men and women play on different teams.
What's wrong with a man not wanting to shower or undress next to a man that is attracted to other men? Doesn't he have the right to feel uneasy about that? Don't women have the right to not have to shower or undress in front of men??? What's with this typical mass shaming tactic toward heterosexual men that don't enjoy the company of homosexual men? By the way, this is coming from a man that approves of gay rights.
Ramifications I think it's the implication that gay men will try and hit on every straight man that's what's insulting. Most gay men I know agree actually scared of the locker Room
I'm all for gay rights and gay sports players among straight ones, but there is a consistency issue here. Why are gay guys allowed to shower with straight guys but women are not? How come no one ever brings up this point?
The bounty situation in the NFL is not "Tonya Harding status." It's a violent game and the players weren't hurt in a dark parking lot. Nearly every team has (had) some form of paying each other as a reward for laying big hits.
Then why don't men and women have the same dressing/locker room? Obviously the fact that you're attracted to peni (plural for penis?) means you shouldn't be around them while showering/dressing. That's a pretty common sense request.
The only reason it's like that is because our culture tells us that private parts are not something you flaunt anywhere. They are meant to be kept covered unless you are intending to use them for sex. However there are many other countries and cultures where women and men are almost completely naked around eachother and nothing happens.
As far as he is not making any gay person's life uncomfortable actively or passively , there is nothing wrong with him not liking or possible hating gay people.
It is really screwed up to have someone who is attracted to the people they are showering with. People in the comments are actually complaining about not being able to go into the girls locker room, that is really messed up. If some guy is staring you down in a locker room then you should have the right to be as aggressive as you want and deal with the problem, not talking to them about or telling someone else like Ana suggested. Men don't know how to be men these days.
It is NOT possible to NOT check someone out. Your brain goes through an evaluation process. When I am at the mall, I say wow nice body. Then she turns around, I say, wait, she's 15 look away, not an acceptable target. You don't turn on your "radar" like a light swtich unless you are evaluating hookers on Craig's List., its always on. I am sick of this argument that people that are against showering are egotists presuming everyone wants THEM. You have to evaluate the person FIRST before you decide you want them. Men don't want to be evaluated, before the brain says "do not approach". If you disagree with me, then you are FOR communual showers and bathrooms for EVERYONE.
That's not the argument. At least not the one that any person who actually thought this through would make. To claim that there are no homosexual men currently in the NFL is to be oblivious. So, we can assume that there are closeted men ALREADY showering with the other players. Seeing as we have no reports of rape, molestation, or harassment currently; what exactly would them not being closeted change? Are you making the argument by saying that they no longer have to hide the fact they are gay will suddenly turn them into bishops in a pre-school?
aprisia The bishop comment was funny. What would change with them being out of the closet is knowledge on the part of the straight guy. As I said elsewhere on another post, people are at their most vulnerable when they are nude. At that time they want to be with people like them. As stated, if you don't agree with me, then women should have NO issue showering with men, and you shoudl support that. All men are not rapists, all men are not going to check you out.
I would have thought they would have reported on the Scottish Parliament passing the bill to legalise gay-marriage, apparently 17th country to do so and so by autumn it will be legal all over Britain.
Any reason why they bathe in view of other people instead of in like a stall or something? I do agree with people saying that if they have to be okay with bathing next to a gay guy, then why not have unisex bathrooms but why even make it so that you can see genitalia if people are so upset by the idea of any sexual attraction being present. Did they really think there are no gay athletes?
I also don't think he is a homophobe like the title suggests. It didn't sound like he hated gays. He just (for some reason I don't get) is okay with bathing with naked straight guys but not naked gay guys. The only difference is that it might be awkward but only if you make it awkward.
The term “homophobia” is inaccurate. It implies a certain level of untrustworthy irrational emotionalism. But in fact, we are not afraid of homosexuality. To the contrary, we know exactly why we despise it... it is an affront to the natural purpose of life on this planet, as well as a vile debauchery directed at the decency of the human experience. Not to mention, the sexual aspect of it breeds physical disease. So it is merely prudent judgment rooted in reality. Not some kind of irrational phobia we have simply because we don't like the smell of shit. But I think they know that. They just use the label in order to derail the opposition by immediately placing them on the defensive. Ugly, man… Ugly to the core.
The thing is that they're all like "What if I'm getting dressed and this gay guy sees?" Well here's the thing, they were gay all along and nothing happened, why would your knowledge of it make a difference?
And yet all of these players never thought what their coaches might be thinking as they get naked in front of them in the locker room, in junior high, high school, etc?
Everyone against this topic says 'Oh if gay men can shower with straight guys then I can shower with a woman' If your that self conscious about showering with a gay guy why not remove the showers? Heck, It would solve everything.
Okay, but if sexual attraction is not a problem, why aren't heterosexual dudes allowed in my female locker room, and why am I not allowed in the dudes' locker room? Uhh...cause it feels infringing on our privacy to have platonic individuals who may possibly be attracted to us to be around our naked bodies. That's the whole point!
playandrepeat Do not think so. If we separated people do to their sexual attraction (should of used that word instead of preference) then we would need new locker rooms for people that are attracted to animals and what not. Also kids do not jet have sexual attractions to any body so by your logic they must have a kid only locker room at the gym. If this logic is to much for you to understand or admit to understanding, then I will use the capitalist reason why men and women should not share the same locker room/bathroom.
the NFL has serious problems with its environment/culture among its players, thats how instances like the Icognito-Martin things happen, you would never see stuff like that in the NHL or MLB like Terry Crews said, "The NFL is jail with money" its a fucked up criminal culture that needs to some serious refining
As a gay teen 30 years ago. When at gym time, I made sure to pick my locker at the farthest from everyone else, in a corner. Waited till everyone else had showered and was alone to do so. That way there would be nothing to be accused of. I made sure my gym was right before lunch each year when I went for a schedule, so I would have the time to do that and not be late to a class.
Poor journalism here, YT. The NFL's report deemed that Vilma had nothing to do with Bountygate. His suspension was lifted and he pursuing a libel case against Roger Goodell.
as an ex football player, i feel what Vilmas gettin at. boys and girls bathrooms are separate for a reason right? sexuality does play a part when it comes to certain settings im sorry. no diss to the gay community im not trying to judge i just rather not shower with you. is that a problem?
I'm not a lesbian, but I'm far more attracted to women than men. I spent my whole youth swimming competitively, and I must say that I've never really looked at another girl in the locker room in "that way" - it's a total mindset shift. I compared myself to them in fits of teenage angst instead. Now that I'm an adult, I work with a ton of women (female-dominated profession). I'm out and open about it. It astounded me how uncomfortable some of my coworkers were at first. But it didn't last long. Fast forward 2 years - I have singlehandedly won over every single woman I work with. Even the new hires trust me completely. They are my friends. I notice when they change their appearance, I reaffirm their self-confidence, I buy rounds of shots at the bar, I console them when their boyfriends upset them, I do everything I can to reinforce all the best they deserve from life, while gently chastising their substandard behaviors and praising them whenever I can for any achievement. In other words, I pride myself on being a good friend and, at times, mentor. I've managed to establish myself as a big-sister figure, though I only have 2-6 years on most of these women. All it took? Some awkward questions that I answered with patience, and some parallels (like bitching and lamenting and reminiscing) drawn between my homosexual relationships and their hetero ones. Now, no one questions an innocent hug, a "get it, girl" compliment, or even a flirtatious joke. They KNOW that I would protect them and treasure their friendship. And despite being an utter flirt with wandering eyes, I've never ever looked at any of them in a sexual way. I know it's completely different for men. I'm not stupid. I just wish that men were as secure and accepting as women. It's liberating! And wholesome and warm and comforting and genuine. It makes me sad.
there's this saying that straight men are uncomfortable with gay men because they're scared that they (straight guys) will be treated the same way that they (straight) treat women, seems to be the case for a few of these guys
No gay player will come out while they are still playing. It would definitely be a problem in the locker room. To be honest Ben is right all guys sneak a peak at other guys and compare. Not sure what goes on in an NFL locker room, but a gay player would create tension.
This is what I hate. They want to make light of the situation, but it's not. I would not get naked next to someone who found my anatomy attractive, couldn't do it. I don't think it's unreasonable or homophobic to say something like that. It's reasonable. There are very few uni sex showers for that reason. I am attracted to the female anatomy, and I could understand her being uncomfortable getting naked around me. I'm not calling her names or trying to make her feel uncomfortable about her body's right. It simply blows me away that people act like this is a "non issue."
Most NFL players were brought through High School and College without having to learn the education that was there. They were passed because they played football and was great. I know, broad generalization. So maybe education is key to accepting people being gay.
Devil's advocate. Imagine a female player made the NFL & decided she didn't want to shower in with men made b/c it made her uncomfortable. Would you say that is prejudice & "a man's head is not going to explode from seeing a naked women?" I personally don't care, but our society seems to respect sexual privacy/prudishness.
As a Saints fan and former Vilma fan this makes me really sad. I was an openly gay lineman in my high school team and although comments were thrown around from time to time i was never threatened with violence or treated worse than any other player who was different
American football is a game in which the players wear tights. They start each play bent over with protruding asses, which they regularly pat, slap, and tickle. One man puts his hands hands between another man's legs to grab the pig skin, and then he's targeting the wide receiver. They even have a player called the TIGHT END. The problem with acceptance of gay players in the NFL is that it rings so true. They need to just get accept it and move on.
IGNORANCE IS TRULY BLISS. THE WAY YOU RELATE TO YOUR MATE USED TO BE PRIVATE. THIS TRANSITION IS NOT WANTED. HOWEVER, IT WILL PROCEED WITH LITTLE OR NO OPPOSITION.
I have to think that for the most part it's ignorance, not homophobia. But let's be honest, guys in the army, locker room and frat boys tend to do pretty gay stuff with their buddies. I'm gay and I've played sports and that's pretty much how it goes. I've known people in the military and who have gone to frat houses and I've heard stories. NFL players tap each others asses. But OMG somebody might actually be gay and now it's not cool. Gay or straight, you've probably seen a guy naked in the locker room and who cares. News flash, just because we like dick, doesn't mean we want yours and even so most of us aren't just going to stare. We'll carry on with what we're doing. How do you respond if a gay guy happens to look at you? Ignore it.
This has always been such a weird fear to me. If a teammate comes out gay that you've been changing and showering around for years totally fine, what's changed other than their sexuality isn't a secret anymore? If they haven't come on to you before, chances are they probably won't now.
I think the bigger issue is why are a bunch of dudes still showering together? All the money these teams have and they cant build individual showers? Im a straight dude and see just as much a problem showering with 51 other dudes as I do a gay guy right next to me. I just dont get it lol.
I don't think Vilmas remarks where all that homophobic, I mean how would you respond to something like that? I would certainly be uncomfortable, doe that make me a homophobe?
Probably half of NFL is gay & they just don’t say. They come out after their career, and some come out during their career. Why does it have to be an issue?! You’re in the NFL to showcase your passion, talent, and get to the Superbowl, all while being paid millions. Just be a great player like you were born to be. Like, you didn’t get there just because you like it. You have to fight to get in the NFL it’s not so easy. So many would love to be in the NFL. I just don’t get some people.🤷♀️🤦♀️
Ehhhhhh I don't think it's that simple a debate if you're having a group shower with someone homosexual. I mean there's a reason we have separate showers for separate genders, because even though we probably all could handle ourselves, it's just an uncomfortable situation. Don't get me wrong, definitely don't think gay guys see any naked dude and are all "10/10 would bang" I just think it's uncomfortable for both parties.
An NFL team got 53 man, 3.8% of people self-describe themselve as gay or bi and others are closeted. This mean at least 2 guys are gay on each team, on average. Considering that these are supposedly nice specimen of dude, we might expect a sightly higher rate. This mean Jimmy Dore is actually correct as far as statistic goes : not too bad for a comedian who sometime complain to not know much about math.
Hold on a sec... Maybe I'm falling behind the liberal parade.. but when I say I'm 100% accepting and supportive of homosexuality.. just to be clear, that stops at me naked in the shower beside one. Most of us can support homosexuality without regularly showering with gay men. I think we should give Mr. Vilma a little more credit than calling him an idiot. His response was actually pretty well thought out and sensible.
Will women allow men to shower with them and use the same locker room? NO? Why not? Because it makes them feel uncomfortable. Same thing with straight dudes and gay dudes showering together. I don't want to shower anywhere NEAR a gay dude for a similar reason.
You might be surprised to learn that quite a bit of showers/changing rooms/bath houses etc. are co-ed in other parts of the world. Not all countries have a culture of conditioning people to be ashamed of themselves as America does.
If we are talking equal for gays.?.then its wrong for a gay man to shower of get dressed around str8 men, because it would be wrong for a woman who is also attracted to men to do the same...Thats called special treatment for gay men if you agree with TYT point.
I don't like the idea of gender specific shower rooms, why not just have unisex ones? And since when was being able to use the shower room a special treatment?
infomationiskey I wouldn't, only because of the fact that when somebody's changing, they're usually in a private space. Being in a shower room with a bunch of naked men is much different then watching somebody get dressed in a private place. And I doubt anybody in this day and age (With the exception of these guys) would like to shower in the nude with other people at all.
I would just like to to say: Desensitization. You think that a a gay guy in a NFL locker room would have a reaction? Well, the answer is no. They have probably been in that environment at least since high school, so they would not have a reaction while being in the locker room in the NFL. By then its normal for them and they wouldn't get all out of wack being their. Nudity isn't a big deal if you are exposed to it regularly. Ask any Nurse, Doctor, or CNA.
Same thing with art classes, I spent a full year having to draw nude models for a few classes, the first few times was awkward but by the second week I was filtering it all out as "Drawing Practice" and barely even thinking about the boobs I was drawing as an arousing picture.
Well Vilma was correct as far as most NFL players wont be as accepting of a gay openly gay player. Thats just reality. Some how being gay has been equated with being soft, and if your in the NFL you dont want anything to compromise your toughness. Now whether thats morally right or wrong is a separate issue. But the reality is that if a player came out, and was openly gay, he would probably be treated like an outcast.
I can understand it to a point. I mean, we don't shower in the same place as women...etc.... What I am a little surprised about is that this is 2014 and we all don't have separate shower stalls. That said, being bisexual, let me say truthfully, I didn't check out any of my teammates. And I was a wrestler as well. The last thing I am thinking when I am wrestling a guy or girl is sexual....specially when they are trying to dislocate my head from my shoulders with a crossface. But all those things aside. Vilma, should understand that we allow it in our military and haven't really seen the "issues" we were told we would see.
Completely understandable Ana. So I assume you'd be perfectly fine getting changed with straight men? Like you said, we can control ourselves, so it's not different?
Thumbs up if you feel uncomfortable when ANYONE sees you naked
Homosexuality does not - repeat does NOT - belong in a sport of tight ends and wide receivers; where padded men throw each other to the ground over a leather ball and touchdown in each other's end zones. Play it straight or don't play it all.
NFL football is the gayest gay that ever gayed.
oh just come out already girl-friend, your hate speaks volumes on how you feel deep inside, unless your willing to live in Rusher, in where there are still gays despite your hate for them
idontcear FU did you hear a "vooossshhh!" go right over your head a moment before you commented?
shore i'm not all that good at commenting as i'm dyslexic and i have not done many youtube reply's but thx for the constructive criticism i can Handel that unlike some religious gay hating closed minded twits
idontcear FU well, you're commenting on the wrong post
Men always respond to women complaining about sexual harassment like they wouldn't mind. But the moment there's a gay guy near them all of a sudden the fear of sexual harassment is all too real. Just saying.
Jonathan was dead on right about what he said and the host is dead wrong. If it is okay for a gay men and straight men to be naked in the same room, then why is it not okay for a straight men and women to be naked in a same room?
Because straight men and women are different genders. In women's sports there's a lot of gay and straight women in the same locker room and you don't hear shit from them. Vilma's being a douchewad.
amy glass
Sweetheart, you miss the point by least 10 miles.
pugghead The only fat middle aged men are the heterosexual ones and I find you disgusting so yeah, Stay the fuck away from me and other women, pervert!!!
pugghead But what about the gay guy in the ladies looker room? Knowing he's gay, maybe a lot of women wouldn't mind. But the gay guy would feel the same way about dressing/showering with straight women as you would dressing/showering with a gay guy. I think (and this is coming from a gay man) that a third looker room may be a solution. Straight Men (physically/anatomically men), Straight Women (physically/anatomically women), and Other. Fellow members of the GBLT community might scorn me for this, idk. But considering that you're uncomfortable, and we're often just as uncomfortable (believe it or not), it may be the best solution.
pugghead I hate Christians but I am not a bigot. I want separate but equal facilities for blacks and whites but I am not a racist. I hate women but I am not a sexist. I don't want to share a public facility with Jews but I am not anti-Semitic.
Personally I find open showers draconian. I dont want people seeing me shower, dont matter what their sexuality is.
What the NFL cant afford to put doors and cubicals in its rooms to ensure privacy?? If my shitty little school in UK could afford to, why not them??
I agree. My university had separate showers, I dont feel comfortable being naked around other people.
DAVID Edwards Indeed, last thing I want is someone seeing me wash my ass. Respectively, I equally dont wana see someone washing theşr own ass. Or even worse... NOT WASHING THEIR ASS!!!!
Ebola But you don't mind putting the images in other people's heads.
bronxboy47 Not my fault you got a fucked up imagination. Im just talking about a normal thing people do everyday (hopefully).
Ebola If it's that normal, what's so disgusting about it? If it's perfectly normal, why does it offend you to have to see it? You sound like a Victorian young lady. You're still ignoring the fact that something you care not to see is the very image you just planted in the mind of everyone who reads your post. You can't be that dense not to see my point.
Just because I'm gay doesn't mean I'm attracted to every guy out there
So then i should be allowed in the womens locker room , " just because im straight doesnt mean im attracted to every girl out there" See what i did there?
***** I think it is fine to have gender neutral bathrooms. They wont turn into orgies unless the people are perverted nut jobs. There is a time and place for sex, and people will respect that.
Jonathan made a good point. Y cant I take a shower next to women then? Not fair.
There were rumors about a month ago about Aaron Rodgers possibly being gay. Do you think the Packers' players would care if he actually is? No, he's their franchise QB, most of the players would suck it up. I think players care more about what you can do for the team rather than your sexuality.
This is not a movie. Acceptance by all won't just happen. There would be some angst. As long a Rogers continues to win, he may be given a pass. But any other players wouldn't be so lucky.
Guys who go out chasing each other in tight pants, tackling each other and occasionally slapping each other on the ass... need I go on?
yes pleas sounds good to me :o
I disagree. The ass slapping happens way more than just occasionally.
slapping each other on the ass happens in most sports, it's just a way of saying well done/well played... as long as you know your not gay there is nothing wrong with it.
No intention behind it aside congratulating your buddy. That's another reason why Vilma is right. While the straight guy doesn't pay attention to a butt tap, a gay guy may have a different reaction. And the uniform is only to maximize performance. What, did you want them to wear robes?
Al
If you are heterosexual, you shouldn't be slapping guys ass's to begin with
If it's no issue at all (as Ana and Ben are trying to make us believe), how come men and women have seperate locker rooms? Following Ana's aguments, there is no reason for that.
1:50. Imagine a heterosexual man showing in the same room as a crapload of female models. What do you expect him to do?
So being sensitive is a female tendency now? I'm pretty sure that's a required part of being a decent human being. Plus, women often exaggerate their feelings to appear more sensitive and caring. I know I have.
The problem you come to in the end is when does every ones feeling get considered. A girl using the restroom has to use it with boys who say they are transgender. The girls are forced to use the restroom with guys even though they feel uncomfortable. So in the end can a straight man use the same group showers with females because he feels more comfortable that way or is it some how different? In reality we separate showers and restrooms for sexual and privacy issues so if a man or women is sexually attracted to the same sex do we allow a them a buffet of access and freedom? I know it would be impossible to say who is doing what in their personal life, this is just examples of the problem we are quickly headed to. If so why can men and women just start using one restroom and gym showers with no separation? Or is it homosexual men and women have restraint but heterosexual men and women are uncontrollable deviants? That is what you are saying if you say hetero men and women should be separated but transgender who still have their original parts can choose what showers and bathrooms they want to use. Homosexuals can use the restroom and locker rooms of the sex they are attracted to but hetero people must be separate. The protections afforded to men and women for predation and privacy should be respected across all spectrums including sexual orientation. Homosexual men and women are just as capable of the same crimes as heterosexuals but its not equality its special treatment in reality. But that would not be acceptable to say, it would be wrong and verbally lynched.
he isnt a male. she is a female.
Excuse you we are not boys claiming to be women WE ARE women, just born in the wrong body how dare you say such drivvle. We don't choose to be this way it's just how it is. By the way do some research what's between your legs doesn't make you who you are or define sexuality. Do you honestly think we want to use a bathroom in public? No we fucking don't, bathrooms are one of the worst parts about being a trans person take you hate and non-understanding somewhere else. PS: Women LOVE to use the restroom with us besides the fact you can't pick out a trans from non trans women, we have better make up, better style and more self confidence.
Isis Morrison no, by every definition you are a boy who FEELS they were born in the wrong sex. If you are right then anyone at any time could say well I feel I was born to the wrong species or anything else. I was born to the wrong age, so I get to run around with pistols on hip no matter the laws of my area. I have no issue with you feeling how you feel, it does not affect my life. When it starts to affect my life or my child's life then it becomes my business. If at 18 you or anyone else decides they want the reassignment surgery go for it and be happy. But feeling a certain way does not change what you are. But if this is the route we as a society are going then do not ask for special treatment ask for equal treatment. So if any boy or girl can FEEL that they are born a certain way and be allowed access to the opposite sex facilities then what stops everybody from doing so. If you do then its not equal treatment, its special treatment. When blacks fought for equal rights. It was the right to use the same facilities, have access to the same educational materials and jobs. It was not to say we want access to these but others can not. So in the end to be fair we should just do away with sex based facilities and all share them equally. But that will not happen because virtually what is being said is heterosexuals are not trust worthy but Homosexuals (or transgender / wrong born sex/ whatever) are trust worthy. I can trust you because you say you FEEL a certain way (but 6,12 or 15 years old never change their minds, meaning they may realize they are gay not transgender) you can use these facilities with the opposite sex. But you hetero people can not because its wrong. Generally its just saying Hetero people just need to accept it and no matter how they feel about the subject my daughter has to share her facilities with a male and my son has to share with a female, but only the ones that say they feel a certain way. Fair treatment for all, not special treatment for some.
I've said this all along. If your argument against the involvement of gays revolves around getting dressed in a locker room, you aren't mature enough to be speaking on the subject in the first place.
TEENAGERS can handle changing and showering in a locker room. TEENAGERS. And this adult, multi-million dollar athlete is shy? SO WHAT if a gay guy looks at you? They aren't going to leap on your dick like it's a lollipop. There's also the issue of arrogance, who's to say you're even good looking to the gay guy? Maybe he thinks you're REPULSIVE, you think of that?
I don't know about you, but gay guys love me. I gotta keep them at bay at every turn. I am flattered guys, really I am, but I love the poon. Stop with the screwdrivers and mimosas (sp.), I can't handle all that liquor.
The Bald Non-stamp Collector Bring your girlfriend instead
There are different changing rooms for *genders* because they have different *equipment.* Because if there wasn't, women would be raped. I've seen no mass of raped straight NFL players, have you? Plenty of white people were once "uncomfortable" changing in front of black people, we didn't make them their own changing rooms. What you're advocating is basically making them drink from another water fountain, due to your PRIVILEGED SELF not wanting to be uncomfortable. Pathetic.
mmafyasco Good luck enforcing those "gay locker" rules.
"Have some fun". Ana you get creeped out by RUclipsr's searching for pictures of your feet on Google. This is about sharing locker rooms with people who are sexually attracted to you. I don't blame him one bit for thinking that's unacceptable.
That's the point though isn't it? IF these gay mates were conspicuously staring at their fellows' feet, and ogling their soles whenever they walked, THEN that WOULD be creepy. But Ana's entire point is that, IF these gay mates were not spotted until NOW, they don't do that. So HOW is sharing a locker room with someone who acts normally toward you and doesn't ogle you the same as having someone who, once they see a video of your (clothed) top half, look for pictures of your feet they can jerk off to?
ana, the points you made against his comment could also be made to advocate unisex dressing rooms and group showers:
'i hate the assumption that straight guys can't handle themselves. they see a pair of breasts and their heads are gonna explode, like "oh my god, boobs! i gotta look at them!" no! they're normal people. they're gonna be respectful in the locker room [...]'
of course homosexuals are normal people. normal people who are sexually attracted to men. the only reason why locker rooms are generally divided by sex is sexual attraction (at least the only one i can think of). i'm not at all for making gay players use a separate locker room, but it is perfectly normal to be uncomfortable at the thought of showering with them.
if you honestly think it is not, please start using mens' showers, i'm sure nobody will mind.
My thinking precisely.
Straight men being out of control is a meme so universal it's amusing to see men being defended. (but only because other men might be uncomfortable)
My double standard senses were tingling, despite that fact I agree with you.
I got no issue with a gay dude checking out what ass I have (I'm a scrawny fuck) as long as he keeps his hands to himself.
I've been to unisex showers, it's just a matter of norms. While it may seem unfathomable to prude Americans, it's really no big deal at all.
kilroy1964
Indeed, but it's honestly no big deal to afford somebody some slack for personal discomfort.
I'm a Brit, and while I'm not shy in most senses, I do struggle with public nudity (or anything near it :P)
I make no distinction as to who sees me naked though.
Literally makes no difference if they're gay, straight or a freakin martian.
If somebody is attracted to me, more power to them (though they may need their eyes tested) if they keep their hands and opinions (mostly. Who doesn't love a wolf whistle, eh) to themselves, what they think in the privacy of their own heads is no business of mine.
kilroy1964
the thing is: i'd bet it IS a big deal to ana, and that she would vehemently attack the idea of providing no alternative to unisex showers.
i'll admit that i'm a little prudish, but i wouldn't mind what she said if she applied it universally. what bothers me is the double standard.
kilroy1964 In the summer of 1977 I visited Europe for the first time and was working out in the Olympic Stadium in Munich, which had been repurposed as a public sports center. Imagine my surprise when I discovered the sauna was co-ed and naked women were in there sweating alongside naked men-and not a hint of sexual tension or arousal anywhere. Totally civilized. .
I never like it when people describe "kind, loving, sensitive" as female tendecies. Why would they be? It just adds to the stupid notion that men and woman have to act a certain way, or else they are considered to be abnormal. Just goes to show how ingrained these stereotypes really are.
I don't feel uncomfortable with the idea of a gay guy showering near me, and I don't think there should be a problem with gays in the NFL, however I feel a little uncomfortable when I realise the double standard here. Women usually feel very uncomfortable when others stare at them ,especially naked, and we (myself included) view this as reasonable. Why is it not reasonable for men?
Because of the prejudice you moron!You wouldn't feel uncomfortable if women watching you!Unless if you feel the same way about women watching you then I totally understand you but if you're okay with women and not men,that is what prejudice is.You think that gay men can't control themselves when they see you naked.Come on,if you're that narrow you need to learn more about gay people to understand better so you won't be labelled as a bigot.
The problem with his statement is the assumption that because a guy is gay he wants to look at you. Also most women are uncomfortable with being sized up but unfortunately living in this very sexist society we live in, it is something they have to deal with on a daily basis. They handle it well even though they shouldn't have to at all. If women can handle the occasional creep stare why should men not be able to?
Olie, I'm not particulatly uncomfortable either way. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of getting upset over men being upset about men seeing them naked when we consider it perfectly reasonable for women to get upset over it.
Derrick McCoy see, that's precisely the thing, women aren't expected to handle the occaisional creep stare (and I don't think they should be), but men aren't afforded the same courtesy.
olie171 Nope. Sexuality or sexual preference is different. It is something more personal and is different from prejudice or discrimination on the basis of race or gender. It doesn't matter if a gay or straight guy would control himself in a locker room. If you won't mix men and women in any other locker room situation, no matter how respectful or well behaved, you shouldn't mix straight and gay men either.
And no, coaches don't want straight men and women in the same locker room either. Hell, straight men don't like undressing and showering in front of other straight men.
I once had a friend who came out to me that he was gay. Afterwards I was quite uncomfortable being around him in the locker rooms. He actually admitted that he was checking me out and a few other guys. I never said anything to the others about his orientation so I wouldn't out him to the whole school. But he took advantage of that.
I'm sick of these libtards saying that straight men are wrong for being uncomfortable with gays looking at them un/dress. They spread lies that they don't receive gratification out of it but THEY DO! They may not be attracted to *every single* guy they see there. But they still ARE attracted to at least some of the guys. It's common sense that a gay man will find some portion of the guys in the locker room attractive.
Well, you are wrong for being offended. You're also dumb for caring whether or not you're being checked out. How does it affect you? Inform us how that changes your experience in the locker room?
Aiden Aude Are you seriously going to say that to me? With your logic, men should be allowed to peak on females in their locker rooms and women are dumb for not wanting guys looking at them. This world sure is headed for a world of craziness when people are attacked for simply being uncomfortable with people checking them out undressing.
No, with my logic we're speaking about men being in mens locker rooms and females being in female locker rooms. Your argument doesn't make any sense.
Aiden Aude It makes perfect sense actually. If it's okay for gays to peak at straight men while they are undressing, then it is okay for straight men to peak at women when they are undressing.
Again, I'm talking about male locker rooms. Gay males are males, gay females are females. You're using a strawman to attempt to make a point, it doesn't work.
In this comment section: Extreme homophobia.
There are gay men in the NFL for sure. 110,000%
Best definition for homophobia I've seen on the web: "Homophobia: The fear that gay men will treat you the way you treat women"
Is there a double standard for the sexual attraction of say gay guys showering with other guys, and how uncomfortable it makes them, then say a girl showering naked with a guy and feeling uncomfortable if that guy looked at her too? Isn't it the same issue? Isn't that why we separated men/women rooms?
Haurbus
So are you saying gay men and straight men should b separated
I would like to see a gay football player tell one of these homophobes "Don't flatter yourself, you're not that attractive"
then the homophobes would get their feelings hurt and be like "WHY NOT WHATS WRONG WITH ME"
Yes, I've done this before and they get really offended and pissy at me.
Chibi Blast Oh the amount of fun I would get answering that question in the most cruel and blunt way possible.
MurkyWaterKid Makes you wonder why they care enough to get offended.
i've seen it happen. I always asked them..."didn't you not want him to check you out? why are you mad then?"
ROFL, Anas "OMG THERE IS A PENIS!!!"....priceless XD
Eek! A penis! Kill it before it lays eggs!
*****
????
Sort of a south park reference. There was an episode called "eek! a penis!" about a mad scientist that made half penis half mice that ran around the city.
***** Lol, that sounds messed up. Got to watch that. :D
The thing I find fascinating is that straight guys always think that they're SO hot that gay guys will always try to check them out. Most of you guys are not even attractive, this is just hilarious.
I disagree with this to a certain extent. I mean gay guys by definition are sexually attracted to guys. I am a straight man and if I was put in a locker room to change with twenty girls in tip top physical condition, I would definitely find it hard to not look and probably even think about them sexually. Stuck in a room with twenty members of the sex you are attracted to and naked? It would be silly to assume that all gay men wouldn't look, at least some would.
the entire point is if your not gay then who fucking cares?
and if it bothers you...your most likely gay just saying
you would definitely find it hard
Why do some guys have this weird belief that gay guys are going to be attracted to them? Dude, just no.
I think it's narcissism to be honest with you.
So you're saying a guy is automatically going to be attracted to a girl because she has boobs and a vagina? It works both ways. If a girl thinks a random dude is just going to want to fuck her because she has a vagina, she's dumb. Just because someone has a penis, doesn't mean a gay guy would want them. But hey, maybe it's just wishful thinking.
If this is how we should handle that then why the need for separate faculties for people to use for things like showers and bathrooms?
Anna please; it's not about phobia it's about equality!
If gays are allowed to shower with the sex they're attracted too, then so should hetero's be allowed to shower with the sex they're attracted too. Don't make the assumption that just cause they're hetero they'll drool by the sight of boobs and a vagina. Just cause hetero men can be attracted to women, doesn't mean we can't handle ourselves. Show some respect please!
To be fair, the other side would say, "if there was a man surrounded by naked women showering, you're telling me there isn't a good chance they might take a peak or get turned on? Why not expect the same when it comes to a gay guy in a shower full of dudes." Actually penis fair point. I still however think, whatever, get over it. You've been doing it all this time and nothings happened. He's not going to rape you or something. Just calm down.
I just watched a video on how much of a problem a man looking at a fully clothed woman can be for women's psyches and feminists. If that argument holds water, I think Vilma's point is compound a hundredfold considering you are naked in a locker room and thus much more vulnerable.
Oh yeah you're so amazing looking that if you enter a gay guys line of sight he is going to loose all control and attack you.
would it be a different discussion if there was a straight man in a womens locker room ?
Yes because men have different genitals then women.
Alexander Demkin I see you missed the point entirely...
irvgaddi21 No, you do not understand what you are talking about.
Alexander Demkin Genitalia has nothing to do with the argument.
irvgaddi21 Its the reason we have separate locker and bathrooms. So yes it does.
Dear youngturks, tell youtube to stop recommend your videos to me, I don't care about your hyper liberalism. thank you.
Dear 'Jordan Cookie', tell yourself not to click on Young Turks videos, if you already know you won't agree, we don't care about your fear of liberty and freedom. Thank you.
Spontaneous Feet What do the young turks have to do with liberty and freedom? they are hyper liberal and the young turks has to be the most biased "news" program Iv'e ever seen.
Jordan Cookie Not familiar with FOX News, then?
Liberalism by definition means freedom and acceptance, so you bashing liberalism is essentially saying you hate freedom, it's as simple as that.
The fact you see negativity in them saying homophobia is pathetic is really quite funny.
Spontaneous Feet I despise fox news aswell, Call it Faux news because they sensationalize everything. How is liberalism freedom when Liberals want gun control? I love freedom, however Liberalism is not the same as classical liberalism that you are speaking of.
Spontaneous Feet No, that is not the definition. It goes back to the old French parliament. Care for a link? I like researching stuff.
Grown men should not have female tendencies. How about earrings. A diamond earring which i'm willing to bet he has, is that not feminin?
beatonm198 Or how about the fact that women wore earrings first and men decided they liked it and wanted to wear them too.
xithappens Yes but not a wedding earring:-)
basquat76 How about the fact that high-heels were originally made for men but now are only worn by women?
POINT IS THAT FEMININITY AND MASCULINITY IS CULTURALLY DEFINED (pulls hair out of her head).
Kate P Well i did always find high heels very butch
basquat76 ^^
Honestly if u were in a girls locker room. And there is a sexy chick taking taking a shower wouldn't you creepily stare at her. Hell yes! Would she be creeped the fuck out? Probably. So what I'm saying is that I would be creeped the fuck out. Just as a girl would, and I'm not homophobic I'm saying that I would be OK if he is gay I just don't want him to be gay for me. I mean he can like me but I don't want him trying to flirt with me, and that goes for girls that I don't find attractive too.
Don't project your OWN creepy behavior unto others. And stop flattering yourself.
mmafyasco It's the assumption that we're checking out guys in the locker room in the first place. We don't. First of all, it isn't the time or place to do so. We are feeling pretty uncomfortable in that environment and just want to get in and out as quickly as possible.
The reason you can't go into a girl's locker room., since we're talking about pro sports, is because men and women play on different teams.
What's wrong with a man not wanting to shower or undress next to a man that is attracted to other men? Doesn't he have the right to feel uneasy about that?
Don't women have the right to not have to shower or undress in front of men???
What's with this typical mass shaming tactic toward heterosexual men that don't enjoy the company of homosexual men? By the way, this is coming from a man that approves of gay rights.
Ramifications
I think it's the implication that gay men will try and hit on every straight man that's what's insulting. Most gay men I know agree actually scared of the locker Room
if it's o.k for gay guys to shower with straight guys than by that logic wouldn't be o.k for men and women to be in the same shower?
I'm all for gay rights and gay sports players among straight ones, but there is a consistency issue here. Why are gay guys allowed to shower with straight guys but women are not? How come no one ever brings up this point?
Magellanic SpaceClouds
Cause gay men Are still men
The bounty situation in the NFL is not "Tonya Harding status." It's a violent game and the players weren't hurt in a dark parking lot. Nearly every team has (had) some form of paying each other as a reward for laying big hits.
Then why don't men and women have the same dressing/locker room? Obviously the fact that you're attracted to peni (plural for penis?) means you shouldn't be around them while showering/dressing. That's a pretty common sense request.
The only reason it's like that is because our culture tells us that private parts are not something you flaunt anywhere. They are meant to be kept covered unless you are intending to use them for sex. However there are many other countries and cultures where women and men are almost completely naked around eachother and nothing happens.
How is he a homophobe?
As far as he is not making any gay person's life uncomfortable actively or passively , there is nothing wrong with him not liking or possible hating gay people.
A bunch of sweaty guys piling on each other and obsessing over a ball... Yup, nothing homoerotic about that at all...
It is really screwed up to have someone who is attracted to the people they are showering with. People in the comments are actually complaining about not being able to go into the girls locker room, that is really messed up. If some guy is staring you down in a locker room then you should have the right to be as aggressive as you want and deal with the problem, not talking to them about or telling someone else like Ana suggested. Men don't know how to be men these days.
That's stupid. Why not just say, stop looking at me, first? Ok, maybe after that, they can be aggressive.
It is NOT possible to NOT check someone out. Your brain goes through an evaluation process. When I am at the mall, I say wow nice body. Then she turns around, I say, wait, she's 15 look away, not an acceptable target. You don't turn on your "radar" like a light swtich unless you are evaluating hookers on Craig's List., its always on. I am sick of this argument that people that are against showering are egotists presuming everyone wants THEM. You have to evaluate the person FIRST before you decide you want them. Men don't want to be evaluated, before the brain says "do not approach". If you disagree with me, then you are FOR communual showers and bathrooms for EVERYONE.
That's not the argument. At least not the one that any person who actually thought this through would make. To claim that there are no homosexual men currently in the NFL is to be oblivious. So, we can assume that there are closeted men ALREADY showering with the other players. Seeing as we have no reports of rape, molestation, or harassment currently; what exactly would them not being closeted change? Are you making the argument by saying that they no longer have to hide the fact they are gay will suddenly turn them into bishops in a pre-school?
aprisia The bishop comment was funny. What would change with them being out of the closet is knowledge on the part of the straight guy. As I said elsewhere on another post, people are at their most vulnerable when they are nude. At that time they want to be with people like them. As stated, if you don't agree with me, then women should have NO issue showering with men, and you shoudl support that. All men are not rapists, all men are not going to check you out.
I would have thought they would have reported on the Scottish Parliament passing the bill to legalise gay-marriage, apparently 17th country to do so and so by autumn it will be legal all over Britain.
If gay men showering with straight men is perfectly fine why are there separate showers for men and women? Isn't that precisely due to sexuality?
Any reason why they bathe in view of other people instead of in like a stall or something? I do agree with people saying that if they have to be okay with bathing next to a gay guy, then why not have unisex bathrooms but why even make it so that you can see genitalia if people are so upset by the idea of any sexual attraction being present. Did they really think there are no gay athletes?
I also don't think he is a homophobe like the title suggests. It didn't sound like he hated gays. He just (for some reason I don't get) is okay with bathing with naked straight guys but not naked gay guys. The only difference is that it might be awkward but only if you make it awkward.
The term “homophobia” is inaccurate. It implies a certain level of untrustworthy irrational emotionalism. But in fact, we are not afraid of homosexuality. To the contrary, we know exactly why we despise it... it is an affront to the natural purpose of life on this planet, as well as a vile debauchery directed at the decency of the human experience. Not to mention, the sexual aspect of it breeds physical disease.
So it is merely prudent judgment rooted in reality. Not some kind of irrational phobia we have simply because we don't like the smell of shit. But I think they know that. They just use the label in order to derail the opposition by immediately placing them on the defensive. Ugly, man… Ugly to the core.
The thing is that they're all like "What if I'm getting dressed and this gay guy sees?" Well here's the thing, they were gay all along and nothing happened, why would your knowledge of it make a difference?
I Gay showering with other men is gay man's dream; just like it's a dream of heterosexual man to shower with beautiful women.
And yet all of these players never thought what their coaches might be thinking as they get naked in front of them in the locker room, in junior high, high school, etc?
Seems like you're the evidence.
Everyone against this topic says 'Oh if gay men can shower with straight guys then I can shower with a woman' If your that self conscious about showering with a gay guy why not remove the showers? Heck, It would solve everything.
Okay, but if sexual attraction is not a problem, why aren't heterosexual dudes allowed in my female locker room, and why am I not allowed in the dudes' locker room? Uhh...cause it feels infringing on our privacy to have platonic individuals who may possibly be attracted to us to be around our naked bodies. That's the whole point!
Locker rooms are separated do to the two sexes being different not sexual preference.
Wrong.
Alexander Demkin
playandrepeat Do not think so. If we separated people do to their sexual attraction (should of used that word instead of preference) then we would need new locker rooms for people that are attracted to animals and what not. Also kids do not jet have sexual attractions to any body so by your logic they must have a kid only locker room at the gym. If this logic is to much for you to understand or admit to understanding, then I will use the capitalist reason why men and women should not share the same locker room/bathroom.
a football player is insecure about his masculinity... since when is this news?
There cannot be homosexuals in the NFL. If there were they might smack each other on the ass after a good play.
Calling him a homophobe for this is a bit of a stretch.
I don't think they know what Homophobe really means.
the NFL has serious problems with its environment/culture among its players, thats how instances like the Icognito-Martin things happen, you would never see stuff like that in the NHL or MLB
like Terry Crews said, "The NFL is jail with money"
its a fucked up criminal culture that needs to some serious refining
I can see what he means...
You guys are paraphrasing him and making the wrong judgments
Then please explain since you've grasped it better than everyone else apparently.
Derrick McCoy He said it would feel weird if he found out a team mate was gay, because when they shower together it would be weird
shaq604
Well what would be your solution for that
We do not we need to know what a players sexual preference is.
As a gay teen 30 years ago. When at gym time, I made sure to pick my locker at the farthest from everyone else, in a corner. Waited till everyone else had showered and was alone to do so. That way there would be nothing to be accused of. I made sure my gym was right before lunch each year when I went for a schedule, so I would have the time to do that and not be late to a class.
Poor journalism here, YT. The NFL's report deemed that Vilma had nothing to do with Bountygate. His suspension was lifted and he pursuing a libel case against Roger Goodell.
as an ex football player, i feel what Vilmas gettin at. boys and girls bathrooms are separate for a reason right? sexuality does play a part when it comes to certain settings im sorry. no diss to the gay community im not trying to judge i just rather not shower with you. is that a problem?
Does this mean that showering with women should be fine too? If it applies to gay I do not see the problem showering with women.
I'm not a lesbian, but I'm far more attracted to women than men. I spent my whole youth swimming competitively, and I must say that I've never really looked at another girl in the locker room in "that way" - it's a total mindset shift. I compared myself to them in fits of teenage angst instead.
Now that I'm an adult, I work with a ton of women (female-dominated profession). I'm out and open about it. It astounded me how uncomfortable some of my coworkers were at first. But it didn't last long.
Fast forward 2 years - I have singlehandedly won over every single woman I work with. Even the new hires trust me completely. They are my friends. I notice when they change their appearance, I reaffirm their self-confidence, I buy rounds of shots at the bar, I console them when their boyfriends upset them, I do everything I can to reinforce all the best they deserve from life, while gently chastising their substandard behaviors and praising them whenever I can for any achievement. In other words, I pride myself on being a good friend and, at times, mentor.
I've managed to establish myself as a big-sister figure, though I only have 2-6 years on most of these women. All it took? Some awkward questions that I answered with patience, and some parallels (like bitching and lamenting and reminiscing) drawn between my homosexual relationships and their hetero ones.
Now, no one questions an innocent hug, a "get it, girl" compliment, or even a flirtatious joke. They KNOW that I would protect them and treasure their friendship. And despite being an utter flirt with wandering eyes, I've never ever looked at any of them in a sexual way.
I know it's completely different for men. I'm not stupid. I just wish that men were as secure and accepting as women. It's liberating! And wholesome and warm and comforting and genuine. It makes me sad.
there's this saying that straight men are uncomfortable with gay men because they're scared that they (straight guys) will be treated the same way that they (straight) treat women, seems to be the case for a few of these guys
No gay player will come out while they are still playing. It would definitely be a problem in the locker room. To be honest Ben is right all guys sneak a peak at other guys and compare. Not sure what goes on in an NFL locker room, but a gay player would create tension.
if its ok to shower,dress,use the restroom with men who are attracted to men...then i wanna be able to shower,dress with women
This is what I hate. They want to make light of the situation, but it's not. I would not get naked next to someone who found my anatomy attractive, couldn't do it. I don't think it's unreasonable or homophobic to say something like that. It's reasonable. There are very few uni sex showers for that reason. I am attracted to the female anatomy, and I could understand her being uncomfortable getting naked around me. I'm not calling her names or trying to make her feel uncomfortable about her body's right. It simply blows me away that people act like this is a "non issue."
Most NFL players were brought through High School and College without having to learn the education that was there. They were passed because they played football and was great. I know, broad generalization. So maybe education is key to accepting people being gay.
Devil's advocate. Imagine a female player made the NFL & decided she didn't want to shower in with men made b/c it made her uncomfortable. Would you say that is prejudice & "a man's head is not going to explode from seeing a naked women?" I personally don't care, but our society seems to respect sexual privacy/prudishness.
By that logic Ana, we should have unisex locker rooms and bathrooms... Because everyone can handle themselves..
How is this homophobic? It's ignorant, but not homophobic.
My question is if the NFL is subsidized by tax payer money, meaning it's not privately owned, isn't denying gays illegal?
if my information is correct(american pie) there are coed showers. so why arent guys against that as well?
You base your knowledge off of American Pie? LOLOL
dat shit be dope yo
As a Saints fan and former Vilma fan this makes me really sad. I was an openly gay lineman in my high school team and although comments were thrown around from time to time i was never threatened with violence or treated worse than any other player who was different
Good to hear. I assume you don't live in Texas.
I've gotten changed around gay girls and never felt uncomfortable because people know the difference between a sexual and non sexual situations
why does it matter if he is gay or not grow up
American football is a game in which the players wear tights. They start each play bent over with protruding asses, which they regularly pat, slap, and tickle. One man puts his hands hands between another man's legs to grab the pig skin, and then he's targeting the wide receiver. They even have a player called the TIGHT END. The problem with acceptance of gay players in the NFL is that it rings so true. They need to just get accept it and move on.
IGNORANCE IS TRULY BLISS. THE WAY YOU RELATE TO YOUR MATE USED TO BE PRIVATE. THIS TRANSITION IS NOT WANTED. HOWEVER, IT WILL PROCEED WITH LITTLE OR NO OPPOSITION.
I have to think that for the most part it's ignorance, not homophobia. But let's be honest, guys in the army, locker room and frat boys tend to do pretty gay stuff with their buddies. I'm gay and I've played sports and that's pretty much how it goes. I've known people in the military and who have gone to frat houses and I've heard stories. NFL players tap each others asses. But OMG somebody might actually be gay and now it's not cool. Gay or straight, you've probably seen a guy naked in the locker room and who cares. News flash, just because we like dick, doesn't mean we want yours and even so most of us aren't just going to stare. We'll carry on with what we're doing.
How do you respond if a gay guy happens to look at you? Ignore it.
This has always been such a weird fear to me. If a teammate comes out gay that you've been changing and showering around for years totally fine, what's changed other than their sexuality isn't a secret anymore? If they haven't come on to you before, chances are they probably won't now.
I think the bigger issue is why are a bunch of dudes still showering together? All the money these teams have and they cant build individual showers? Im a straight dude and see just as much a problem showering with 51 other dudes as I do a gay guy right next to me. I just dont get it lol.
I don't think Vilmas remarks where all that homophobic, I mean how would you respond to something like that? I would certainly be uncomfortable, doe that make me a homophobe?
Probably half of NFL is gay & they just don’t say. They come out after their career, and some come out during their career. Why does it have to be an issue?! You’re in the NFL to showcase your passion, talent, and get to the Superbowl, all while being paid millions. Just be a great player like you were born to be. Like, you didn’t get there just because you like it. You have to fight to get in the NFL it’s not so easy. So many would love to be in the NFL. I just don’t get some people.🤷♀️🤦♀️
Ehhhhhh I don't think it's that simple a debate if you're having a group shower with someone homosexual. I mean there's a reason we have separate showers for separate genders, because even though we probably all could handle ourselves, it's just an uncomfortable situation.
Don't get me wrong, definitely don't think gay guys see any naked dude and are all "10/10 would bang" I just think it's uncomfortable for both parties.
It's inconceivable that not a single member is not gay?
An NFL team got 53 man, 3.8% of people self-describe themselve as gay or bi and others are closeted. This mean at least 2 guys are gay on each team, on average. Considering that these are supposedly nice specimen of dude, we might expect a sightly higher rate. This mean Jimmy Dore is actually correct as far as statistic goes : not too bad for a comedian who sometime complain to not know much about math.
RAIDERS58th
Well, this is what I think Jimmy Door did - guessing the numbers... But, the math does add up to something close which is close enough ;)
Hold on a sec... Maybe I'm falling behind the liberal parade.. but when I say I'm 100% accepting and supportive of homosexuality.. just to be clear, that stops at me naked in the shower beside one.
Most of us can support homosexuality without regularly showering with gay men. I think we should give Mr. Vilma a little more credit than calling him an idiot.
His response was actually pretty well thought out and sensible.
Will women allow men to shower with them and use the same locker room? NO? Why not? Because it makes them feel uncomfortable. Same thing with straight dudes and gay dudes showering together. I don't want to shower anywhere NEAR a gay dude for a similar reason.
You might be surprised to learn that quite a bit of showers/changing rooms/bath houses etc. are co-ed in other parts of the world. Not all countries have a culture of conditioning people to be ashamed of themselves as America does.
I definitely don't do that in the shower, Ben.
I am not even remotely interested.
Be about my business and you be about yours.
Fun Fact = If you go to a gym you've been naked in front of gay men.
If we are talking equal for gays.?.then its wrong for a gay man to shower of get dressed around str8 men, because it would be wrong for a woman who is also attracted to men to do the same...Thats called special treatment for gay men if you agree with TYT point.
I don't like the idea of gender specific shower rooms, why not just have unisex ones?
And since when was being able to use the shower room a special treatment?
infomationiskey I wouldn't, only because of the fact that when somebody's changing, they're usually in a private space.
Being in a shower room with a bunch of naked men is much different then watching somebody get dressed in a private place.
And I doubt anybody in this day and age (With the exception of these guys) would like to shower in the nude with other people at all.
I would just like to to say: Desensitization. You think that a a gay guy in a NFL locker room would have a reaction? Well, the answer is no. They have probably been in that environment at least since high school, so they would not have a reaction while being in the locker room in the NFL. By then its normal for them and they wouldn't get all out of wack being their. Nudity isn't a big deal if you are exposed to it regularly. Ask any Nurse, Doctor, or CNA.
Same thing with art classes, I spent a full year having to draw nude models for a few classes, the first few times was awkward but by the second week I was filtering it all out as "Drawing Practice" and barely even thinking about the boobs I was drawing as an arousing picture.
Well Vilma was correct as far as most NFL players wont be as accepting of a gay openly gay player. Thats just reality. Some how being gay has been equated with being soft, and if your in the NFL you dont want anything to compromise your toughness.
Now whether thats morally right or wrong is a separate issue. But the reality is that if a player came out, and was openly gay, he would probably be treated like an outcast.
I think using 30lbs of armor to play 15 minutes of wattered down rugby extended for 4 hours is impossible to make it look tough.
Keihzaru It's a completely different sport. I don't get you people always bringing up rugby in a football conversation.
I can understand it to a point. I mean, we don't shower in the same place as women...etc....
What I am a little surprised about is that this is 2014 and we all don't have separate shower stalls.
That said, being bisexual, let me say truthfully, I didn't check out any of my teammates. And I was a wrestler as well. The last thing I am thinking when I am wrestling a guy or girl is sexual....specially when they are trying to dislocate my head from my shoulders with a crossface.
But all those things aside. Vilma, should understand that we allow it in our military and haven't really seen the "issues" we were told we would see.
Completely understandable Ana.
So I assume you'd be perfectly fine getting changed with straight men? Like you said, we can control ourselves, so it's not different?
i dont think that would make him homophobic by saying that.