Being able to cross London north/south by train (once again) when Thameslink opened was such a transformation. To go from Bedford or Luton to destinations such as Brighton or Gatwick without involving a couple of London termini and an Underground connection felt like real progress.
@@tamara3984I’m not sure what you mean. Thameslink services operate to Cambridge and Peterborough. For InterCity services into Kings Cross it’s a short walk to St Pancras low level.
This takes me back to when I first worked in London in the mid 70s when there was talk about a north - south through route being considered using "old" tunnels and routes. Thanks for explaining what happened: You provide the answers to my long forgotten questions.
I can still remember sitting in the school hall at junior school in Luton, 1979, watching the mini horror film called Robbie...teaching us kids to keep away from the new electrified railway that was to become the BedPan line...maybe a video on the PSA films of the 70s & 80s Jago?
At 2:01 you catch a glimpse of the chord heading west under Smithfield Market which once completed a triangular junction north of Snow Hill. (IIRC it was used only for freight pre-1916.) Reinstating this chord would have permitted northbound Thameslink trains to run into Moorgate. 'City Thameslink' and Farringdon are on the western fringe of the Square Mile, whereas Moorgate is within easy walking distance of Liverpool Street, the Bank of England etc. Moreover, the reinstated chord would have allowed diversions, reducing congestion and poor timekeeping on Thameslink's core section.
Jago - my very best wishes to you for 2025 and this wonderful channel. Regarding Thameslink, I was living in St Albans in 2000, just round the corner from St Albans City Thameslink. I found a job in Sutton. I also discovered that if I got on a train from St Albans at about 7.10 am, I could go straight through to Sutton without changing even once: two slender rails that took me the 35 miles door to door. I read a lot of books... The Sutton loop was the poor man's relation to Bedford-Brighton. Going back to St Albans after work, I left Sutton and went back through a de-industrialised wasteland called Hackbridge, through Tulse "Ill and "Erne 'Ill for Sarf London low-life, City Thameslink for greasy little yuppies, Kentish Town for the socially inadequate, Cricklewood for the London Borough of Brent council house parasites who never paid a penny rent, Mill Hill for stuck-up gits, Radlett for nouveau riche stuck-up gits and St Albans for the dead and dying. But it was a very useful and convenient journey. For that I thank Thameslink.
Mr.Hazzard.Thankyou for mentioning Bedford AND Camberwell several times in the same video.Looking forward to more of your excellent work in the coming year.
A good summary - and, as you suggest, it is amazing that 'Thameslink' actually happened. I think you are right to highlight the delay problems when you try to link up existing mostly half-hourly services across the centre of London. How much better to do it the Elizabeth line way (and like the rest of the Underground) on a high frequency basis, with a less elaborate network. No one worries if a 'Liz' line train to Shenfield or Abbey Wood is late, as another will be along in a few minutes. It's a different story out west, of course, but perhaps when Old Oak Common opens and they have to order extra trains, they can improve through running a bit. Maybe the Thameslink timetablers will learn from that, and run just three services - perhaps Cambridge to Brighton, Bedford to Swanley and Peterborough to Sutton - each 8 per hour; then passengers at City Thameslink can treat it just like a tube-line.
I think Thameslink and Cros.. sorry the Elizabeth Line should be looked upon with pride by Londoners. Ok, it took a while to get there but they both are pretty darn neat when you think about it.
I was up in London yesterday and took a trip from Canary Wharf to Tottenham Court Road on Crossrail for the first time. I had only done a short stint on the Class 345s in 2018 before that to Liverpool Street. Seeing the vast station just behind Billingsgate Market was incredible. I remember going there about eight odd years ago and the station was being built in the background. "One day...I'll be able to travel from there" As a non-Londoner I was in awe. It is a massive achievement that they got Crossrail running as it is
In the case of Brent Cross West for example, it is because the level platforms wouldn't be compatible with the freight trains that run through the station.
Operationally very awkward, though. It would mean bringing trains to a grinding halt in the middle of what is otherwise a fairly fast section of route as trains accelerate away from Elephant & Castle to points south. It's been looked at before and the rail operators have never been very keen on it.
@BigJoeChrisLewis from what I understand there is space there are 4 tracks running through the area, and space for either an island platform or the more typical platform arrangement. (I'd argue the typical arrangement would be safer with a high fence off the fast running side) Many stations along that route would be similar running, where it may impede is timings on the routes through E&C and Blackfriars that's where I suspect some of the issues lie.
Thank You for all Your good work and videos!! A merry back-Christmas and luck bringing Happy New Year to You!! With kindest greetings and regards the Danish Viking
@@stewartclark2137 If you are responding to me that's only104 years since the extension was first proposed. If you're not responding to me I'll shut up.
@@SIMONWINTER-m6d No, my thoughts was that it will never reach Camberwell or Peckham centres anyway. I have lived in Peckham and have used our station for over fifty years Timetables and routes have changed, while now there is even gold leaf on the crestings of the building. In spite of plan after plan, however the surroundings remain a tip, not accessible, now almost dangerous at rush hours, but no doubt the OvergrounD name has changed
The south of the Thames station makes logical sense in the plans shown as missing is any link from Blackfriars to London Bridge. One could imagine this station would have linked to platforms on the line out of Charing Cross which would have been quite close to Waterloo East. That would have made for slower journies south so I'm glad the Thameslink scheme included London Bridge. The view from the platforms at Blackfriars over the Thames are, IMHO, the best view from any station in London.
The Birmingham band ‘The Electric Light Orchestra’ in 1973 did a video promotion of one of their singles ‘Showdown’ next to Blackfriars railway bridge on the Southbank.
I visited Paris in the 70's & was impressed by the way the then-new RER metro lines joined various main lines that otherwise terminated at gare du nord so you could get thru the city easily. I wondered why London didn't do something similar. I lived in Bedford. Then after I moved away from Bedford Thameslink happened & now the Elizabeth line. Ah well. Thanks Jago.
My parents moved to near South Merton Station in the early 1930s, because my mother worked in Holborn and got the now-called Sutton Loop Line train, which, at Wimbledon, branched off from the normally expected run to Waterloo, by going to Holborn Viaduct Station instead! Now part of Thameslink, it still doesn't go to Waterloo!!! It's original headcode was a 'P'.
With the amount of buses that run down Walworth Road and through Camberwell Green, it really should have a station. It'd help reduce the number of buses needed and reduce emissions. During public consultation for the Bakerloo Line extension, the public overwhelmingly supported the route option via Camberwell. Unfortunately, they decided to aid developers on Old Kent Road instead.
When I was on my way to Boston in Easter this year I was stuck on the Thameslink just past New Cross for about half an hour on my way to St Pancras station. I just about caught my LNER train with a couple of minutes to spare.
I enjoy the uninterrupted journey from Loughborough Jcn to Elephant. Speeding through South London on a train is quite a novelty. Adding a station would be a shame.
The tracks to Barbican and Moorgate could have ramain open if the platforms haf been lengthened at the Kings Cross end of the Faringdon station. This would have required the platforms to be rebuilt and the gradient to the underpass to be regraded. There are tunnels between Snow Hill Tunnel and the to Moorgate, which could have provided another termination station within the City for trains comming from the South.
Reopening Camberwell would be a great idea as it's close to King's College Hospital which is used by people across south London for certain specialisms (it's a local hospital as well of course, and people from the local area who are in the hospital will have visitors from further afield, e.g. us visiting my Nan back in the day). I guess they thought "too expensive", and not worth it because it's too close to central London and therefore not a viable commuter line. But there's more to rail than commuters. The Bedford to St Pancras service did actually continue for a while after the Thameslink core was opened, though it was not regular. Much like the Midland City route to Moorgate, it ceased to be regular once Thameslink opened. A better name for City Thameslink would be Holborn Viaduct, since that's where it is. Maybe they thought the name didn't fit, since it's physically underground.
I live Sutton and it is rare to see no delays or cancellations. Being at Sutton you can have two trains at platforms going to St Albans but both going different routes to start. If a late train comes off the Wimbledon loop then it is normally ran fast to Streatham which can leave a long gap at Carshalton. If the core is blocked Northbound then Thameslink can run southbound and hide a few trains on the Wimbledon loop, or they get stuck there anyway. You have this spread out network flowing into a short two track section, needing a change of traction.
There once were plans for a railway station to be built that would serve Camberwell that Thameslink trains would stop at. Maybe the Bakerloo Line could have extended to Camberwell. Plus I wouldn’t mind if Thameslink did went to Liverpool Street. As always happy new year.
Thanks, Jago. Most interesting. I do wish they'd run trains from Finsbury Park to Peckham Rye: it would compensate somewhat for the withdrawal some years ago of the direct service from Highbury & Islington to Peckham Rye which TfL told me was because of an increase in frequency of Thameslink trains.
I used Thameslink in the early 00s when going from Bexhill to Keighley to see family. Quick change at Kings Cross Thameslink and Haywards Heath which meant almost seamless changes
Pre Thameslink, Bedford trains terminated at St Pancras (the so, called Bed-Pan line.) So option mentioned in the report was an option to continue the then current system, rather than an option for something new. Maybe it could have been a useful addition?
1:15 Isn't there room for both names? Just as the Central etc. lines are Tube lines, and the Weaver etc. lines are Overground lines, can't we speak of the Elizabeth line as a Crossrail line?
Also part of a platform (submerged in budelia and other plants) is still visible at Camberwell and the other entrance of City Thameslink is very near the long closed Lugdate HIll station.
Petition to again start calling it Thameslink 2000! There is such a retro future vibe about calling something "2000". It really fits since Thameslink is kind of retro-future with it's 1800's heritage combined with fulfilling a purpose somewhat similar to the 2000's Crossrail.
does anyone think that old BR logo with the lion standing over a big red train wheel is kinda awkward? It's like "I am the mighty lion of Britain, and I wish this wheel wasn't here so I could stand in a more comfortable position"
Hello Jago, sir! Thank you for your fascinating videos. The lingering shot towards the end showing the red columns at, I believe, Farringdon station reminds me of a little factoid I'd like to share with you. The grey building with red panels which sits alongside Farringdon station was built for a stock broker named 'Smith Newcourt' back in the '80s. Their market data and trading systems were designed to have full redundancy as any disruption could cost the money grabbers millions of pounds... to this end the building was also encased in a high (military?) spec faraday cage due to the high level of electrical activity the railway caused - they didn't want it to disrupt their nefarious get-rich activities ! (This I fully believe to be true, but if I am mistaken readers do please correct me 🧐)
I used to work on Holborn Viaduct and confirm that ugly grey and purple building housed some financial shenanigans. These days, the building has sinister dark cladding and perfectly in keeping with the blackhearted goings on within. I can't speak for its anti-disruption features, but do remember all the CCTV cameras mounted on the facade.
@@eattherich9215 I work in the financial data business and was actually given a full tour and explanation by the company's Market Data manager... the levels they went to were extreme, for sure !
You don't have to walk for ages to exit at King's Cross from the Victoria line. It's just that the signs send you the long way round. Follow the British Library exit signs, and you're out in no time.
Ah, that could have been why I waited in vain at Finsbury Park for a southbound Thameslink train. In the end, I had to take a bus to Highbury & Islington as I can't deal with the downward spiral stairs that goes to the Piccadilly line. 😔
I wonder why they can't run services part of the way then reverse them? The Thameslink depots are Hornsey and Three Bridges. Floods in Herts and Beds make 'one end' of the route unusable but you would have hoped there was a way to work around that.
4:34 Doesn't Thameslink cross above the line into Charing Cross? A completely separate but somewhat interesting question - why is the Thameslink core so slow? There's only one tight curve and the tunnels are built to a larger loading gauge, so it surely would take too much work to raise the line speed. Perhaps closing City Thameslink would help additionally?
Ah, the joy of standing on HV platform waiting for my one evening return train back to Maidstone East ... and being delayed for half an hour because the TL service was running late! Interesting to watch the TL trains lumbering up out of the Snow Hill, though.
The problem with Camberwell station is the proximity to Denmark Hill/Loughborough Junction. It would be nice if I had a train station within walking distance as trains run at the end of my road
Thanks Jago and Happy New Year! If you haven't already done so, could you consider talking about the potential of the Met's City Widened lines? Could this unde used resource be brought back to life?
I wonder how definite the thameslink project was when the opened the infamous BedPan, electrification scheme? That being said, it's always been curious to me how the Kings Cross Suburban Electrification of 1976 and the BedPan Electrification of 1983 both included branches to different sides of Moorgate station over the Northern City line and City Widened lines respectively. It was as if they were gearing up Moorgate to act as a king of inner suburban terminus while St Pancras and Kings Cross were made to handle outer-suburban and intercity traffic with more ease now that some local trains were sent to terminate at Moorgate. It is fascinating how the metropolitan line, northern city line and BR electrification projects are all intermingled with each other.
'BR through running' seems more appropriate for 1997 than 1988 - not as a name for Thameslink though... :-( And if you think the exit from the Victoria Line at KXStP was a distance, pity those who wanted to change to the former Kings Cross Thameslink platforms from the Northern Line!
Thameslink could have extended one stop from Moorgate to Liverpool Street and yes I would agree that the Northern City Line should have extended south from Moorgate to Bank and to London Bridge as a 2nd route for Thameslink.
When I lived in Newhaven, taking a direct train (well, via Brighton) to St Pancras was really useful when going to Scotland (just nip across to Kings Cross) or to Paris or Brussels (just change platforms). While I've not gone as far as Bedford, I know others who have. On the downside, the train is nearly always relatively slow through London. I wonder if it would have been faster to go to Victoria and then take the Victoria line??? Hmmmm.
City Thameslink Station is nowhere near the old Holborn Viaduct Station nor any of its😂exits or entrances...? Ed...I'm wrong😮 but I must go and have a wander there😊 ignore me, Jago, oh you had!
It seems to me the aim of building on the cheep using existing infrastructure will almost inevitably clash with the aim of building a well integrated rail system. What the Victorian builders needed is not what rail in the 20th and the 21st Century ( Georgian, Elizabethan and Carolingian for consistency I suppose ) need. As Jago as point out in the past the “ cheep “ Snow Hill Tunnel is today operating at or beyond capacity and needs duplication
I was confused about the discussion of delays affecting the wider network. If you are adding a line how can the performance of that new line have any affect on the currently running lines, the situation before Thameslink was it wasn't running.
Has consideration ever been given to connecting Thamesling to the South Western lines by using the western curve at Loughborough Jct? Or are there difficulties that would make this not worthwhile?
Being able to cross London north/south by train (once again) when Thameslink opened was such a transformation. To go from Bedford or Luton to destinations such as Brighton or Gatwick without involving a couple of London termini and an Underground connection felt like real progress.
Even if you have to change from London Bridge to King's Cross/St Pancras it is lovely not to have to use the tube.
As a resident of greater Boston, who lives near a line to North Station and works near South Station, I am feeling this acutely.
CROSS RAIL 2 people from north to south
@@tamara3984I’m not sure what you mean. Thameslink services operate to Cambridge and Peterborough. For InterCity services into Kings Cross it’s a short walk to St Pancras low level.
It was always there from Farringdon to London Bridge but just not used
This takes me back to when I first worked in London in the mid 70s when there was talk about a north - south through route being considered using "old" tunnels and routes. Thanks for explaining what happened: You provide the answers to my long forgotten questions.
Thank you for making 2024 even better by being cool and interesting! 🧐
and heres to 2025 keep them coming so good and brilliant
He is the life of parties he has never attended...
ruclips.net/video/L8nt94LCyqY/видео.html
I can still remember sitting in the school hall at junior school in Luton, 1979, watching the mini horror film called Robbie...teaching us kids to keep away from the new electrified railway that was to become the BedPan line...maybe a video on the PSA films of the 70s & 80s Jago?
Heh yeah, a bit off piste, but those films were weird and terrifying.
Oh heck! That's not the "Robbie doesn't need his football boots anymore" film is it? Nightmare fuel.
the BedPan line ... !!!!
You're so self-deprecating! As far as I'm concerned you are the coolest and most interesting of all youtubers.
4:07 I love how the signs at some modern stations harken back to the old BR “hotdog” signs
I miss the Thameslink going to Barbican and Moorgate. I can’t believe it closed over 15 years ago!
At 2:01 you catch a glimpse of the chord heading west under Smithfield Market which once completed a triangular junction north of Snow Hill. (IIRC it was used only for freight pre-1916.) Reinstating this chord would have permitted northbound Thameslink trains to run into Moorgate. 'City Thameslink' and Farringdon are on the western fringe of the Square Mile, whereas Moorgate is within easy walking distance of Liverpool Street, the Bank of England etc. Moreover, the reinstated chord would have allowed diversions, reducing congestion and poor timekeeping on Thameslink's core section.
It’s like you read my mind, Mr Hazzard. I found this question circling my mind yesterday and here it is being answered by you today. Thank you!
Jago - my very best wishes to you for 2025 and this wonderful channel. Regarding Thameslink, I was living in St Albans in 2000, just round the corner from St Albans City Thameslink. I found a job in Sutton. I also discovered that if I got on a train from St Albans at about 7.10 am, I could go straight through to Sutton without changing even once: two slender rails that took me the 35 miles door to door. I read a lot of books... The Sutton loop was the poor man's relation to Bedford-Brighton. Going back to St Albans after work, I left Sutton and went back through a de-industrialised wasteland called Hackbridge, through Tulse "Ill and "Erne 'Ill for Sarf London low-life, City Thameslink for greasy little yuppies, Kentish Town for the socially inadequate, Cricklewood for the London Borough of Brent council house parasites who never paid a penny rent, Mill Hill for stuck-up gits, Radlett for nouveau riche stuck-up gits and St Albans for the dead and dying. But it was a very useful and convenient journey. For that I thank Thameslink.
Mr.Hazzard.Thankyou for mentioning Bedford AND Camberwell several times in the same video.Looking forward to more of your excellent work in the coming year.
Jago, Time to wish you a very Happy New Year and thank you for your continuing fabulous content we all love. All the best Alex
A good summary - and, as you suggest, it is amazing that 'Thameslink' actually happened. I think you are right to highlight the delay problems when you try to link up existing mostly half-hourly services across the centre of London. How much better to do it the Elizabeth line way (and like the rest of the Underground) on a high frequency basis, with a less elaborate network. No one worries if a 'Liz' line train to Shenfield or Abbey Wood is late, as another will be along in a few minutes. It's a different story out west, of course, but perhaps when Old Oak Common opens and they have to order extra trains, they can improve through running a bit. Maybe the Thameslink timetablers will learn from that, and run just three services - perhaps Cambridge to Brighton, Bedford to Swanley and Peterborough to Sutton - each 8 per hour; then passengers at City Thameslink can treat it just like a tube-line.
I think Thameslink and Cros.. sorry the Elizabeth Line should be looked upon with pride by Londoners. Ok, it took a while to get there but they both are pretty darn neat when you think about it.
@@stevecooksley Despite the dreadful renaming let's not forget London Overground.
BR through running scheme just trips off the tongue
I was up in London yesterday and took a trip from Canary Wharf to Tottenham Court Road on Crossrail for the first time. I had only done a short stint on the Class 345s in 2018 before that to Liverpool Street.
Seeing the vast station just behind Billingsgate Market was incredible. I remember going there about eight odd years ago and the station was being built in the background. "One day...I'll be able to travel from there"
As a non-Londoner I was in awe. It is a massive achievement that they got Crossrail running as it is
@@sabersz Please,give him a like everybody!!
"You are the re-opening to my abandoned station" If Tom Hanks had used that line in Sleepless in Seattle it might have won an Oscar!
So many platforms too low and/or so many train floor heights too high.
Why, after decades, isn’t there level access everywhere on the train network?
In the case of Brent Cross West for example, it is because the level platforms wouldn't be compatible with the freight trains that run through the station.
And while we're about it, getting on at Macclesfield and getting off at Watford Junction. Climbing gear by special request...
How much would it really take to open a station at Camberwell??
Surely it wouldn't outweigh the benefits.....and ease bus overcrowding in the area.
Operationally very awkward, though. It would mean bringing trains to a grinding halt in the middle of what is otherwise a fairly fast section of route as trains accelerate away from Elephant & Castle to points south. It's been looked at before and the rail operators have never been very keen on it.
@BigJoeChrisLewis from what I understand there is space there are 4 tracks running through the area, and space for either an island platform or the more typical platform arrangement. (I'd argue the typical arrangement would be safer with a high fence off the fast running side)
Many stations along that route would be similar running, where it may impede is timings on the routes through E&C and Blackfriars that's where I suspect some of the issues lie.
Thank You for all Your good work and videos!!
A merry back-Christmas and luck bringing Happy New Year to You!!
With kindest greetings and regards the Danish Viking
I feel I should comment as to feed the algorithm but haven't got anything to say...I do have a cup of tea, which is nice.
@@77smp You can buy a nice cup of tea at Blackfriars Station !!
@@77smp You can get a nice cup of tea at Blackfriars Station.
I live near camberwell. An area in dire needs of railed transit.
@@Litany_of_Fury Don't worry the Bakerloo line will be there in 2124 !!
Really?_
@@stewartclark2137 If you are responding to me that's only104 years since the extension was first proposed. If you're not responding to me I'll shut up.
@@SIMONWINTER-m6d No, my thoughts was that it will never reach Camberwell or Peckham centres anyway.
I have lived in Peckham and have used our station for over fifty years Timetables and routes have changed, while now there is even gold leaf on the crestings of the building.
In spite of plan after plan, however the surroundings remain a tip, not accessible, now almost dangerous at rush hours, but no doubt the OvergrounD name has changed
The south of the Thames station makes logical sense in the plans shown as missing is any link from Blackfriars to London Bridge. One could imagine this station would have linked to platforms on the line out of Charing Cross which would have been quite close to Waterloo East. That would have made for slower journies south so I'm glad the Thameslink scheme included London Bridge. The view from the platforms at Blackfriars over the Thames are, IMHO, the best view from any station in London.
The city widened lines and the northern city tunnels are so cool.
The Birmingham band ‘The Electric Light Orchestra’ in 1973 did a video promotion of one of their singles ‘Showdown’ next to Blackfriars railway bridge on the Southbank.
Through running, a phrase that makes me think John Candy and some fine Jamaican gentlemen will pop up at some point.
Cool !!
Yeh man
@mister_M. What's a war torn Middle Eastern country got to do with Bob 🛷 sleighing.Come to that man,What's it got to do with Jamaica !!
Great video. Maybe my fav of the year. ThamesLink interests me but I especially appreciate your wit and humor : )
I visited Paris in the 70's & was impressed by the way the then-new RER metro lines joined various main lines that otherwise terminated at gare du nord so you could get thru the city easily. I wondered why London didn't do something similar. I lived in Bedford. Then after I moved away from Bedford Thameslink happened & now the Elizabeth line. Ah well.
Thanks Jago.
thanks for the 2024 videos Jago, Happy New Year from up North. . .
Excellent - I knew some of this but you've put the "icing on the cake"
Jago, for me you are INDEED a cool and interesting person. Also, I quite enjoy your dry british humour.
My parents moved to near South Merton Station in the early 1930s, because my mother worked in Holborn and got the now-called Sutton Loop Line train, which, at Wimbledon, branched off from the normally expected run to Waterloo, by going to Holborn Viaduct Station instead! Now part of Thameslink, it still doesn't go to Waterloo!!! It's original headcode was a 'P'.
3:59 "Londinivm"? We need to get Rebecca and Paul Whitewick on the case.
might be one hour late, but nothing starts my sunday more than watching another masterpiece from Jago Hazzard :)
Poor Camberwell never gets a break
With the amount of buses that run down Walworth Road and through Camberwell Green, it really should have a station. It'd help reduce the number of buses needed and reduce emissions.
During public consultation for the Bakerloo Line extension, the public overwhelmingly supported the route option via Camberwell. Unfortunately, they decided to aid developers on Old Kent Road instead.
Remember how ridiculous the buses in early 2000z there were lol
When I was on my way to Boston in Easter this year I was stuck on the Thameslink just past New Cross for about half an hour on my way to St Pancras station. I just about caught my LNER train with a couple of minutes to spare.
I enjoy the uninterrupted journey from Loughborough Jcn to Elephant. Speeding through South London on a train is quite a novelty. Adding a station would be a shame.
Another good one Jago! I did like the comment that it only took 105yrs to implement a recommendation.. Bureaucracy has kept it's inertia up I see! 🙃
I enjoy all your videos.
The tracks to Barbican and Moorgate could have ramain open if the platforms haf been lengthened at the Kings Cross end of the Faringdon station.
This would have required the platforms to be rebuilt and the gradient to the underpass to be regraded.
There are tunnels between Snow Hill Tunnel and the to Moorgate, which could have provided another termination station within the City for trains comming from the South.
Brilliant video sir
Camberwell mentioned 🗣️🔥
We do exist, at last ! ^^
It's about time the station reopened.
You ARE a cool and interesting person @0:48 and we love you for it. Happy 2025, Jago.
The main benefit of Thameslink is freeing up space at London terminal stations for other services
Thank you, Jago, another "Christmas time" video - like the Ambassador in the Ferror Rocher adverts, you are spoiling us.
Reopening Camberwell would be a great idea as it's close to King's College Hospital which is used by people across south London for certain specialisms (it's a local hospital as well of course, and people from the local area who are in the hospital will have visitors from further afield, e.g. us visiting my Nan back in the day). I guess they thought "too expensive", and not worth it because it's too close to central London and therefore not a viable commuter line. But there's more to rail than commuters.
The Bedford to St Pancras service did actually continue for a while after the Thameslink core was opened, though it was not regular. Much like the Midland City route to Moorgate, it ceased to be regular once Thameslink opened. A better name for City Thameslink would be Holborn Viaduct, since that's where it is. Maybe they thought the name didn't fit, since it's physically underground.
I live Sutton and it is rare to see no delays or cancellations. Being at Sutton you can have two trains at platforms going to St Albans but both going different routes to start. If a late train comes off the Wimbledon loop then it is normally ran fast to Streatham which can leave a long gap at Carshalton. If the core is blocked Northbound then Thameslink can run southbound and hide a few trains on the Wimbledon loop, or they get stuck there anyway. You have this spread out network flowing into a short two track section, needing a change of traction.
There once were plans for a railway station to be built that would serve Camberwell that Thameslink trains would stop at. Maybe the Bakerloo Line could have extended to Camberwell. Plus I wouldn’t mind if Thameslink did went to Liverpool Street. As always happy new year.
Thanks, Jago. Most interesting.
I do wish they'd run trains from Finsbury Park to Peckham Rye: it would compensate somewhat for the withdrawal some years ago of the direct service from Highbury & Islington to Peckham Rye which TfL told me was because of an increase in frequency of Thameslink trains.
I used Thameslink in the early 00s when going from Bexhill to Keighley to see family. Quick change at Kings Cross Thameslink and Haywards Heath which meant almost seamless changes
Thanks for the vids this year. Happy new year!
Pre Thameslink, Bedford trains terminated at St Pancras (the so, called Bed-Pan line.) So option mentioned in the report was an option to continue the then current system, rather than an option for something new. Maybe it could have been a useful addition?
1:15 Isn't there room for both names? Just as the Central etc. lines are Tube lines, and the Weaver etc. lines are Overground lines, can't we speak of the Elizabeth line as a Crossrail line?
3:57 "ROMANES EUNT DOMUS!!!" 😂😂😂
"People called Romans, they go the 'ouse?"
@@SynchroScore Ablative! Ablative!
Also part of a platform (submerged in budelia and other plants) is still visible at Camberwell and the other entrance of City Thameslink is very near the long closed Lugdate HIll station.
It was Thameslink 2000 originally !! It's just that it was 20 years late in opening !
Happy New Year Jago.
Petition to again start calling it Thameslink 2000!
There is such a retro future vibe about calling something "2000".
It really fits since Thameslink is kind of retro-future with it's 1800's heritage combined with fulfilling a purpose somewhat similar to the 2000's Crossrail.
happy new year jago i enjoyed your bit of a rant in that one
Why would the Class 700 at 6:28 and 7:44 have both pantographs up? I thought that this would be unnecessary with 25 kV overhead wire.
does anyone think that old BR logo with the lion standing over a big red train wheel is kinda awkward? It's like "I am the mighty lion of Britain, and I wish this wheel wasn't here so I could stand in a more comfortable position"
Hello Jago, sir! Thank you for your fascinating videos. The lingering shot towards the end showing the red columns at, I believe, Farringdon station reminds me of a little factoid I'd like to share with you. The grey building with red panels which sits alongside Farringdon station was built for a stock broker named 'Smith Newcourt' back in the '80s. Their market data and trading systems were designed to have full redundancy as any disruption could cost the money grabbers millions of pounds... to this end the building was also encased in a high (military?) spec faraday cage due to the high level of electrical activity the railway caused - they didn't want it to disrupt their nefarious get-rich activities ! (This I fully believe to be true, but if I am mistaken readers do please correct me 🧐)
I used to work on Holborn Viaduct and confirm that ugly grey and purple building housed some financial shenanigans. These days, the building has sinister dark cladding and perfectly in keeping with the blackhearted goings on within. I can't speak for its anti-disruption features, but do remember all the CCTV cameras mounted on the facade.
@@eattherich9215 I work in the financial data business and was actually given a full tour and explanation by the company's Market Data manager... the levels they went to were extreme, for sure !
3:57 I agree, a "modern" London map referring to the city as "Londinium" is pretentious as hell.
Wonderfully so!
You don't have to walk for ages to exit at King's Cross from the Victoria line. It's just that the signs send you the long way round. Follow the British Library exit signs, and you're out in no time.
I rode the Thameslink once! Farringdon to London Bridge station
Congratulations!🥳 Well done you!
You don't have to walk for ages to exit the Victoria Line at KX, as long as you ignore the signs. Turn left at the top of the escalator.
Comparing whizzing through London on the purple line with creeping (and screeching) along on Thameslink is like comparing Shergar with Dobbin.
7:06. Case in point; floods in Herts and Beds on the last week of November, caused trains to be cancelled on the south side!
Ah, that could have been why I waited in vain at Finsbury Park for a southbound Thameslink train. In the end, I had to take a bus to Highbury & Islington as I can't deal with the downward spiral stairs that goes to the Piccadilly line. 😔
I wonder why they can't run services part of the way then reverse them? The Thameslink depots are Hornsey and Three Bridges. Floods in Herts and Beds make 'one end' of the route unusable but you would have hoped there was a way to work around that.
4:34 Doesn't Thameslink cross above the line into Charing Cross?
A completely separate but somewhat interesting question - why is the Thameslink core so slow? There's only one tight curve and the tunnels are built to a larger loading gauge, so it surely would take too much work to raise the line speed. Perhaps closing City Thameslink would help additionally?
I miss the old interchange between the Viccy line and Thameslink at Kings +.
Admit it, you say: Stop interrupting me, while I am interrupting you. 😂
No Jago....I want to hear more about Holborn Viaduct....................please.
Ah, the joy of standing on HV platform waiting for my one evening return train back to Maidstone East ... and being delayed for half an hour because the TL service was running late! Interesting to watch the TL trains lumbering up out of the Snow Hill, though.
I know Canadian transit planning can take a while, but none of ours have been going so long to have to use Roman place names. 😂
"This station closed to passengers *until* 1916"
You sure about that, my friend?
The problem with Camberwell station is the proximity to Denmark Hill/Loughborough Junction. It would be nice if I had a train station within walking distance as trains run at the end of my road
...and the site identified for the new station in Blackfriars Road s now partially occupied by Palestra, TfL's HQ. So that's nice...
Thanks Jago and Happy New Year! If you haven't already done so, could you consider talking about the potential of the Met's City Widened lines? Could this unde used resource be brought back to life?
Hare Krishna
Interesting how these schemes keep changing with the years!
I wonder how definite the thameslink project was when the opened the infamous BedPan, electrification scheme? That being said, it's always been curious to me how the Kings Cross Suburban Electrification of 1976 and the BedPan Electrification of 1983 both included branches to different sides of Moorgate station over the Northern City line and City Widened lines respectively. It was as if they were gearing up Moorgate to act as a king of inner suburban terminus while St Pancras and Kings Cross were made to handle outer-suburban and intercity traffic with more ease now that some local trains were sent to terminate at Moorgate. It is fascinating how the metropolitan line, northern city line and BR electrification projects are all intermingled with each other.
honestly considering the look of moorgate pre being built over i wouldn't be surprised if it did become a large terminus...
'BR through running' seems more appropriate for 1997 than 1988 - not as a name for Thameslink though... :-( And if you think the exit from the Victoria Line at KXStP was a distance, pity those who wanted to change to the former Kings Cross Thameslink platforms from the Northern Line!
Thameslink could have extended one stop from Moorgate to Liverpool Street and yes I would agree that the Northern City Line should have extended south from Moorgate to Bank and to London Bridge as a 2nd route for Thameslink.
Exit from Victoria line is easier from Kings Cross if you go through the old ticket hall. One day TFL will utilise slow in - fast out...
Used to live near the Angel so would often end up using the King’s Cross thameslink station
Sadly gone
But it hasn't moved far to within St. Pancras. A few hundred metres and a few minutes walk.
“I hoped you enjoyed this through running tale from the tube.”
Missed opportunity.
I really enjoy your videos
When I lived in Newhaven, taking a direct train (well, via Brighton) to St Pancras was really useful when going to Scotland (just nip across to Kings Cross) or to Paris or Brussels (just change platforms). While I've not gone as far as Bedford, I know others who have. On the downside, the train is nearly always relatively slow through London. I wonder if it would have been faster to go to Victoria and then take the Victoria line??? Hmmmm.
City Thameslink Station is nowhere near the old Holborn Viaduct Station nor any of its😂exits or entrances...? Ed...I'm wrong😮 but I must go and have a wander there😊 ignore me, Jago, oh you had!
Have you ever done a video on the old East Brixton station? That would be great to see.
It seems to me the aim of building on the cheep using existing infrastructure will almost inevitably clash with the aim of building a well integrated rail system. What the Victorian builders needed is not what rail in the 20th and the 21st Century ( Georgian, Elizabethan and Carolingian for consistency I suppose ) need. As Jago as point out in the past the “ cheep “ Snow Hill Tunnel is today operating at or beyond capacity and needs duplication
Hear, hear!
These days, the whole UK rail system is "Crossrail", because using it is almost guaranteed to make you cross.
Thanks for the always interesting content! Best Wishes for 2025
I was confused about the discussion of delays affecting the wider network. If you are adding a line how can the performance of that new line have any affect on the currently running lines, the situation before Thameslink was it wasn't running.
I like Thameslink. i use it often but not all the time
I use it occasionally, but the service is not on my route home and have to change somewhere to continue my journey.
I like this scheme even if it didn't do anything else than force Jago to say "BR through running scheme" several times
Has consideration ever been given to connecting Thamesling to the South Western lines by using the western curve at Loughborough Jct? Or are there difficulties that would make this not worthwhile?
Will be looking forwards to 2025 videos
And being *_FIRST_* again 😂😅
Did you get any drawers for Christmas?
@SIMONWINTER-m6d been a while mr winter
Hope you are well
@@Keithbarber Thank you,I lost my phone and replaced it,inexplicably, with a very basic one.Now back in business hurling insults,Boy it feels good !!
@@SIMONWINTER-m6d look forward to it 👍
Nice rainbow train lol
When do we Get the spaceport train to the Spaceship cruzer lines
It's like traveling back in time with the Doctor Who of London transit. Who? Jago of course.
Isn't that a bit Hazzard-ous?
@@paulsengupta971 Could be.
justice for camberwell
When did the term core start to be used train wise?
When did referring to trains become "train wise"?