I agree! I weirdly do an unconscious cost benefit analysis of the inexplicable unique joy from the special person vs. the intrusion and messiness of human. Lol 😂
I honestly never understood, as a man, the trope of men not wanting to be with independent women. I’m a 5w4 and I have never been interested in a woman who needs me. I’ve been married to a smart, independent woman for 21 years, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. She does her thing, lets me do mine, and we have things that we do exclusively together. I’m fiercly loyal to her and celebrate her accomplishments as we celebrate mine.
I'm a sexual five, it's hard. I like isolation, but sometimes intense one-on-one relationships. I need someone I can trust completely, transparent, not overly emotional but present 100%.
Me too, all of that! I look thru some comments on RUclips vids I enjoy and I wonder why do people who relate to comments not like actually become friends?
@@intj5w4rloei87 one on one relationship. I'm a sp/sx, so i am a little bit needy with my significant other too. But just a little bit because the dominant is sp (self preservation), so i enjoy my time alone more. 你明白吗？
@@DanielSansom-cz5yx I agree with this . I’m 5 wing 8. And my husband is 8 wing 5. I’ve never been so sexually comfortable with anyone else. He gives me the intensity I need
@@lorigonzalez4518I'm guessing it comes from experience talking to a lot of people and personal study. Not just talking based on all the surface level things online.
"They get a piece of me, they get a piece of me, but nobody gets ALL." Bruh why is this is so scarily accurate, feeling attacked right now (not rly since i came for it, but i need to make this joke)
I'm a sx 5w4 and I struggle with social niceties. Being "nice" just feels fake to me! I don't really like it when people are too nice to me either. It makes me just wonder "what do they want from me?" And it makes me very uncomfortable.
16:48 I think Nihilism was on the tip of your tongue. It shares some concepts with Existentialism. I think all Existentialists have a bit of a Nihilist inside of them, but Existentialists have decided that--despite the world having no innate purpose or meaning--they can develop their own individual purpose. It's an empowering thought for someone who feels the world around them lacks meaning. I think an Unhealthy 5 is an empty Nihilist, and a Healthy 5 becomes a purpose-driven Existentialist.
really in-depth words, I've been in existential depression for 1 year, I knew what it's like to be an unhealthy, empty Nihilist, really scary, destructive,
Detaching from feelings is such a difficult thing to explain that most people don’t understand. I don’t just REACT to my feelings in real time. I detach from them and then DECIDE to deal with them on my own terms. Pain is necessary sometimes to heal and move on. I can accept that. Pain is the risk of having meaningful relationships, which I do occasionally enjoy. But it is easier to handle pain when I am prepared, so I detach and deal with my feelings afterwards and on my own terms. It isn’t that I don’t care. It’s that I care a LOT and can’t handle it all at once with no mental preparation.
My Type 5 partner gets called "Switzerland" in our circle because he's so neutral, does never take sides when he's not directly involved, avoids HR-management and it's super wholesome to see him just "be default Himself"
I'm a Castle 5 and this was all pretty dead-on for what I look for in a relationship. I've always needed my space. It wasn't until I was over 30 that I even considered living with a romantic partner, and that was a rough transition. I need my alone recharge time. What I think a lot of my partners didn't realize was that just because I needed space away from them, didn't mean I was less fond of them. In fact, I often found my desire GROWING once I was away from them. Once alone, I have my own headspace to think about them, appreciate them, and want them physically. That might seem contradictory, but because my most safe space is alone in my own head, it makes sense that it's easiest for me to explore those thoughts and feelings when I'm alone. When I'm with the person physically, I'm in a different social headspace. I can be engaging, but when interacting my energy is being sucked out into the world like opening a door into the vacuum of space. I'm trying to hold myself from getting sucked out into the void. It's not a good time to think about all the reasons I love you if I don't already have them thought about in advance. As a result, I'm able to articulate my romantic feelings best in the written form. And those are my most pure and honest thoughts, because they were written from a place of safety, security, and mental clarity.
@@sweetbean3599 Not likely. That's like drinking poison and expecting the other person to suffer from it. While I don't know the circumstances leading to it, the short moment of void left by you ( if there ever was) would be fill up with other interest that had replaced you or what they were interested in before you came into the picture.
I am a 5 and I struggle with relating to 2s because they try to help me when I didn't ask, bombard me with personal questions, and make me feel exposed and on display when they give me too much attention. They tend to make me so uncomfortable and so I withdraw, but this usually makes them try harder to win me over. They could win me over by leaving me alone.
@@justinecurtis1753 I feel for you haha! I feel guilty because at times I know I have really hurt 2s feelings. Sometimes when they try too hard to be friendly, complimentary, affectionate or helpful, I react negatively and can be cold or curt with them. I don't want to be mean, but I am afraid that accepting this attention will encourage more in the future. I imagine this can feel very cruel to 2s when their kindness is met with ambivalence and apathy, or even straight rudeness. Sometimes I can tell that they are thinking "Why don't they like me? What do I have to do?". But I usually do like them, I just don't need much from them, and I want them to respect my boundaries. I also don't want them to feel that they need to work for my approval by flattering me and doing me favours. I don't need any of that. Just be you. 5s don't want to need anything from anyone ever, and 2s love to be needed, so I think there is a natural tension and potential for conflict there.
@@justinecurtis1753 I should mention that my lifelong best friend is a 2 so it's not an impossible combination! Although we don't always understand each other intuitively and can annoy each other sometimes we both really value our friendship and the opposite perspectives we can bring to each other. I am often inspired by her giving nature and I can help her analyze problems logically and affirm for her that it's ok for her to say no to people and put herself first sometimes.
Yeah I think 2 and a 5 relationship is definite one of the hardest to navigate for all those reasons you said! Both people need to be in their healthy form of enneagram for it to be good, and when one becomes unhealthy problems come up almost immediately. We’ve been together for 8 years and have found a happy medium and I had to stop comparing my relationship to others because a relationship with a 5 is just different because of that 2 islands idea he was talking about! The thing I admire about 5s though it that their last resort is breaking up and they will try anything before giving up on a relationship! Probably because they don’t want to spend their energy starting over like he said, but it makes me feel special bc they don’t let people in easily 🙌🏻🤗so I must be needed in some way 😁
Types like 3's, 8's, and 1's tend to see other people as resources, as means to achieving their long-term goals. Fives tend to see other people as obstacles and diversions from their goals. I'm a 5w4 with a lot of artistic interests - composing music, painting, photography, etc,,, that I actually do want to do more with, and all my life it's seemed that I make more progress without people than with them. Other people tend to demand help and support (that is often not reciprocal) and presume that you should be equally invested in their goals, which are often actually never stated outright, just demanded at the time. People get in the way. When with others, my own goals tend to get put off or sidetracked (often for years), while I end up helping the other person, or everybody just gets caught up in average daily routines that I really don't think anybody is really all that passionate about anyway. A lot of life in intentionless inertia. I'd be happy getting help from others, but most of the time, the things I work on are things they CAN'T help me with, so it's never an even trade. In close relationships, I tend to be the one helping more often than I ask for help, which I don't mind doing personally. But over the years I've come to see that the one DOING the favors is the one more likely to feel invested in the relationship. To let the other person feel as important as they actually are to us, sometimes we need to just let them take care of us and feel needed, even when we'd rather just handle it ourselves.
I agree with all of things you said as a sx 5 "The one invest more are tend to value more the relationship"-100% true That's why now i prefer the person who invest in me as much as i invest to them
I’m a 2w1 married to a 5w6 for 14 years and I wish I would have known all this at the beginning of my marriage 🤣 my husband is the best and most loyal man but I can be too extra sometimes and he’s like SPACE! It used to hurt my feelings but now I get it.
I am a 5 and I approve of this message! This is HILARIOUSLY accurate! Please leave me alone, you are likely to bore me, need something from me and drain me. I won't need to forge a relationship with you either because I won't need you - I will ensure I won't need anyone. You are so on point, Tom. As a self-preservation 5, I think you did a great job here.
As a 5 like this I’ve realized over the past 4 years that this really does have people thinking that we are selfish and none caring. I didn’t want that thus some self transformation occurring
My husband and I are both 5s and we happily fantasize about two things: 1) Living in two separate houses while talking, joking a lot, laughing everyday on the phone and spending every weekend together. 2) Building a house with a few common rooms and several (many) private rooms for each other. For the time being we have to work with two separate bathrooms and two separate offices. Well, it's a beginning :-D
See, I’m a 5 too and want a partner who can reason with my tendencies but even I am not sure I’d go quite this far. My ideal situation would allow us a big house with 2 separate master bedrooms. That way we can both have our own very comfortable space but have the option of being physically available for one another.
I love that you recognize Fives as fountains of knowledge on countless topics. There are other RUclips teachers out there who claim the exact opposite - that we all limit ourselves to extremely narrow areas of interest. No way. Put me on Jeopardy, man. You don't have to give me any heads up on the categories. I get that you're conscious of generalizing, but when you say Fives don't like to be the center of attention, I recall how my 2w3 older brother destroyed my guitar when I was five because he hated me standing tall atop the fireplace hearth and belting out songs, claiming everyone's attention and adulation years before I grew out of my "shell". Such is life with a sx/so stack. It was no accident that Lennon wound up on Ed Sullivan's stage belting out Twist and Shout for hordes of screaming girls. He didn't allow it, he demanded it. This is why I crack up at Naranjo's claim that all subtypes of Five look pretty much the same. (We can also want more time, attention, touch, and connection with a partner than they are willing to give, as well as more nights on the town than they desire.) It's true that occasional solitude can be delightful, though. What I don't want is for anybody to feign interest in anything I have to say. I appreciate a partner who's honest with me and who conveys her interests (and lack of interests) authentically. Dumptrucking is not an inherent need for a Five, just an immature pattern that can be outgrown with supportive communication.
So accurate! I've been married to an sp 5 for decades. I'm really struggling with finally knowing I will never have the marriage I dreamed of and thought I would. I truly believed when we married we could develop an emotional connection since we had a great intellectual connection. I have felt alone and lonely and responsible for everything that needs to be done without any emotional support. I am very low maintenance, but when I do have a need, he gets angry and withdraws from me. I am a loyal, committed person, but I'm starving for emotional connection and love. I am self-sacrificing and caring but now wondering if I can survive in this relationship. He wants me there, just without any needs and in the other room. He doesn't consider my needs at all. Everything is about him. I don't want to hurt him bc I do believe he loves me and wants to stay married. I don't know what to do...
You should really see a couples counselor. 5s have emotions, it just takes the right atmosphere and safety for them to share them. Many of my friends ask for my emotions and say I don't give them anything to connect with. They say it with an emotional undertone that makes a 5 feel even more unsafe to share. For me, I opened up more when doing mindfulness practice.
Im a 5. Maybe if you schedule ways to meet your emotional needs ahead of time he might be more open. We don't like being put on the spot or anything spontaneous. But if we can negotiate and agree to a weekly date, we can prepare ourselves.
You have to communicate your needs. It is not selfish to have needs, otherwise it is a onesided relationship, and it is your responsibility to be a martyr or not. You have to share your feelings and needs in a clear, but non-pushy ways. Now you can see his perspective, you have to show to him your perspective. Not demanding things (give space), only showing the way to love you better. If he really loves you he will try it. ...it is my silly advice only. Wish you well! :)
I'm a 5w4! Holy Cow this is so me. I need and protect my inner world of investigating & learning. I love people in doses or if I am actively supporting them in coaching them & I like helping fostering resilience & independence. I deeply feeling & few people can understand & handle or be emotionally present for me. So I am selective of what & with whom I share.
I'm married to a 5 and had a chuckle at a lot of your points as they made me think about some of our interactions and fights in our 2 years of marriage. Most of them have been about the fact that he spends 80% of his day either gaming or working which has been a hard thing to not take personally. (My love language is time, and I am a 9w1) He also struggles with Chronic Fatigue so his limit in terms of social interactions is quite low. What was a game changer for us was for me to clearly define my expectations and plans. When he for ex. knows how much time a particular date night will take and what I expect from him in terms of interactions (ex. we will eat dinner then cuddle while watching a movie) he is much more willing and excited to participate!
Hello, My son is a five and married to a five. They both work a lot but describe their "date nights" as very special. I thought this was a little odd but it now makes sense.
I am 9w1 with a 5 and this is helping me, but I also hate having to tell him what I want...or anyone lol. So I will have to work on that. Either I say what I want too casually that he doesn't think I'm serious or I say it in a frustrated angry way when we are arguing.
@@kellikakes81from your comment and the original, it seems 9w1s and 5s can end up together. But that's just two examples. Not enough to say there's a correlation. I think I'm a five and I understand how you may have difficulty communicating what you want directly. I rarely do
Hello I’m a sx 5w4 female and am very affectionate/physical with my significant other. However, I find with my friends and family many times I do want to give a hug or contact but I feel awkward reaching out since I’m always considering their boundaries in my head.
Man, why is this so spot on. I sometimes crave the physical touch or affection, but I feel so awkward initiating it. I am trying to get better at it though.
As a 5w4, I will say this: I have seen the dark side of what humans can do, and the people who were supposed to love me instead turned out to destroy my youth. My mom sold me as a sex slave and my father exchanged me for a "better" son when he found out I was sold, all by the time I was 15. This is in no way to garner sympathy. It is instead to point out that even though I might be in a "shadowland," I am okay with being there and my life is okay. I don't need to try to change it because, as a very 5 quote says, "People think of themselves and their own situation 99% of the time." I am okay with being alone. The issue is why does it bother everyone else? Why do people insist that I have to change to make them happy? Why do they have to see me in a relationship or even attached to someone in order to make them feel fine? That isn't my request, that isn't my issue. It is on the observer and their own feelings to accept that some people are just not wired that way. I told a former friend once, "I already have too many stones to carry. I am going to let you keep that one since it isn't mine. You have to carry your own sins."
You are not meant to exhaust/hurt yourself by carrying the stone neither you are compelled to carry others' sins. It's just that when you have seen tbe datk side, make it your strength and be courageous to face the brighter one too. You deserve it. Do it for yourself whenever you feel you're ready for it.
While 5s can come across as reserved and maybe a bit odd....they tend to be really good people. The ones I know anyway. They think through things and don't let their emptions rule them. They don't judge people (unless that person is a jerk right away) as they observe them first before judging, which can lead a person to be being thoughtful and fair. They don't befriend/love people for selfish reasons as they are perfectly fine alone.
I think I am a sexual 5, when you are talking about 5's in the concept of physical touch I am very physically intimate, hand holding, hugs all of that, with those I am connected with, but with lesser relationships, or acquaintances I would rather you don't
Exactly, I get so burned out on needless interactions. Why do I have to acknowledge or speak to someone because I pass them in the hall or we’re standing in the elevator together? Why do I have to ask how someone’s day is, I seriously couldn’t care less. I don’t want people to ask about my day either. If I’m sharing a space with someone, I’m trying to be invisible. My dream super power is invisibility. The couple of friends I do have asked me about dating. I said, I don’t bother. Two of my friends finally asked me, “Don’t you have… you know, needs?” I said, Hell yes I have needs, chief among them is the need to be left alone.
Just finished listening to "In Relationships With Type 5." Our 22 year old son (single, just graduated college, working, and living at home) is a type 5. So, I can relate to some of the things that you were saying as you were describing them. For example, the "argumentative debater" describes him, not so much now, but in his younger years. In fact, his dad and I used to tell him that he would make a really good lawyer some day!! Lol (This was before we had ever heard of the enneagram.) In addition, you're spot on when you say they're like a "Google Search Engine." He researches everything, gains knowledge about various topics, then shares it with us. The one thing that I'm a bit perplexed about though, is when you said that the type 5 may have a difficult time showing "physical affection." Up until just recently, that seems to have been the case with our son, but to my surprise, one day out of the blue, he said, "Mom, can we start giving each other daily hugs, just to make our day go a little better?!" (I was a bit taken aback.) I answered, "Sure! I'd love to." So, we've been hugging regularly ever since!!
I think it was an inaccurate generalization to say fives don’t like physical affection. They may not like “bad surprises” (unexpected physical touch that is unpleasant or reeks of expectation) and they may not be spontaneous enough to initiate often, but like most people 5s benefit from and appreciate affection AND positive body language. Anyway.. It’s great that he asked! That is a big deal.
As a five, our heads lead to our hearts. We must understand that we can and SHOULD go forth and use that knowledge to make a positive change in the world. The eyes of knowledge we build in greed are meaningless next to the all-knowing nature of God. Being more like God is more than just the eye of knowledge, but the hand of intention that shapes the world around us. This makes us more like an Eight. Sometimes us fives need help being encouraged to play. If you have a five in your life, be patient with us and allow us to step out and help us feel validated and valued for our knowledge. Thank you for your video! Great stuff 🙏🏼🙌🏼
I feel like you are totally wrong about why 5s withhold data. As a five one can observe that most people don't real care nor can understand what I have information on. If a five feels like the other person is interested they do a info dump. (which almost never goes well) why the info dump happens is to present needed information to understand the most basic information on the subject. Most people just want to parrot back one commonly repeated (often wrong data on the subject) and call it a day
I agree, but I think it’s also an insecurity thing for some. If they end up giving information that ends up to be wrong it makes them feel unsafe in the situation. I imagine that a healthy 5 would be able to give information that was important or that people could relate to without feeling the need to “show off”. (5w6)
Wow!!! Thank you so much for the work you've put into this video. I have a young adult son who was diagnosed with 'text book' aspergers 11yrs ago. He is also an Enneagram 5. Even though the focus was on romantic relationships, this video has been enormously helpful for me.
I'm a 5w4 female, and for what you said I'm a sexual type 5. My wing 4 is strong, and the fact that I'm a woman and an INFJ, i think that I am not exactly like this typical type all the time. I strongly need to recharge alone and I don't really follow social norms, but I value intimacy and connection more than anything. I end up being myself with no filters with my partner but not with my friends. It's true we have different groups of friends for different sides of ourselves. Sometimes I withdraw from the world to be just with my partner for a long time. I like that my partner has their hobbies and I have mine, and then we have quality time together. I like physical touch but not too much, I don't like a partner that has no boundaries and is too clingy. I'm more comfortable being the needy person in the relationship than the other person being that
Near the very end at 39 minutes the phone rings you pick it up and hang it up I was actually expecting you to pick it up and then hang up but you took it off the hook that is such a tight five thing to do I give you fat props for staying on topic
As a 5 I know random facts and info. My boyfriend once asked me “how do you know so much about cars” I could talk about history, anatomy…etc I like know vast info. I loved history class in school and just knowing and I like going to museums and just learning info. My mind feels like it runs 100 mph and I’m constantly looking for something to do. I like doing things more efficiently and simple at the same time.
5w4 in a relationship with a female 8 (who spends most of her time in 5 stress lol). This has been the most difficult experience I've ever had trying to bond with someone. But those very few, very short-lived moments of vulnerability make it the most beautiful...we're engaged.
I can relate so much to this sense of independence. One of my life goals is to live and die without any external interference, I don't care about politics, relationships, economic systems, etc. I just want to focus on my personal development, life goals, and nothing else. Is just me against the world, this is are how I feel.
I'd never expect anyone to listen to me rambling about stuff that doesn't interest them & just endure it for my sake that sounds awful mainly because it would be asking a big imposition. Rather I'd try to look for a partner who is interested in that stuff *to begin with*. & if that's just a limited amount of people then thats just how it is
Husband and I were just talking about whether we should go to someone's wedding or go to the family party for the couple later this year. He's a 9. We were both like, "I dunno...skip both?" Re making polite noises when talking to a stranger but thinking about something else....definitely. I'm thinking, "I have to get out of here. I already have too many friends."
I'm pretty sure I'm a social 5 (an oxymoron, it may seem) and I find it super hard to not friendzone people I'm interested in because friendship isn't as involved as romantic relationships. In friendships you get the choice to engage or not, it's not all on you to meet the person's emotional needs because they have other friends. The choice to either sit out an event or join in, with no expectations of me to do either, is honestly what I want the most. I don't always want to isolate myself, but when I do I want the choice not to go to the party or the gathering. But when I'm feeling good and mentally ready to hang out with people, I can be engaged and fun to hang out with (at least I think so.) Howeverrr relationships mean that the choice to engage or not isn't just effecting me, it's also effecting my partner. So now I'm obligated to go to a gathering, even on low battery mode, because if I don't my partner will be sad and it's my fault. :( It's just a lot of responsibility and energy drain. I like people but I'm just not ready to commit that kind of energy to someone. And yeah, vulnerability is very scary lol.
I'm a 5, but my preferred love language is physical touch (tied with quality time). For that reason, I think I can give my own insight on this. I think it's important to understand that, although I don't like intrusion, it's specifically the intrusion of the MIND that I don't like. I absolutely don't mind physical intrusion, unless it causes some kind of mental intrusion. I will say that it's better if non-physical intimacy comes first, though. Personally -back to the love languages - I seek quality time first, but physical touch is still equally preferred. When regarding the autism idea, though, I don't think it's the same thing. I'm not a professional psychologist, but I took nearly four years of college in the psychology field before dropping out. The reason why autistic people don't like to be touched, at least from what I can remember, is because it's literally painful, so I don't think you can connect the two. I do think 5s can seem like they're on the spectrum, though, so I'm not discounting your entire idea. My own dad calls me Rainman, sometimes! 😂 Anyway, I just don't think you can connect the physical touch part. Also, I recognize other 5s might be different. Anyway, I loved the video and you were spot on for almost all of it! Thanks! It's good to have a video I can show people when I need to describe why I do certain things.
Same here! My love language is physical touch, followed by quality time. Btw, are you INTP? Or INFP? And do you know whether you're sp/sx or sx/sp or something else? Also, on the note of autism, I, myself, am not autistic, though I could possibly be confused with a person on the spectrum at times, but my partner has Aspergers and my little sister is autistic, so I can speak to this from personal experience. Yes, people on the spectrum often have sensory sensitivities. These can be hypersensitivities or hyposensitivities, but more often than not it seems the feeling of being touched can be overwhelming for many people on the spectrum. Even the texture of certain types of fabric can be extremely uncomfortable to them. So the reaction can be one of physical discomfort, sometimes combined with struggling to understand the intentions of the person touching them, as they might not "get" social rituals or have difficulty reading emotion. It that sense it may be not only painful, but confusing and interpreted as possibly threatening. I often don't want to be touched by strangers or acquaintances, not because the somatic sensation is so uncomfortable, but more often because I feel like my boundaries are being violated and my freedom and autonomy is literally being restricted, if I am held in a long embrace, for instance, literally unable to move or escape. I have a tendency to not look people in the eye when they're talking, and this, coupled with an occasional spurt of oversharing details about niche interests, can possibly make me come across as exhibiting traits that resemble autism. The thing is though, I am perfectly aware that making eye contact is socially-expected and that most people don't want to be bored by dry details of some academic topic. I have some grasp of theory of mind; I know what other people are likely thinking and how I might come across. It's just that sometimes I don't care lol. I think, listen, and process information much better when I'm not looking right at you or being distracted by your facial expressions and wild gesticulation of pantomime theater. So if people don't understand or can't accept that after years of knowing me, they're just not the one for me, in my mind.
@@heatherbryant4197 I'm an INTJ. I don't know what the sp/sx refers to. I like that you point out that autistic people sometimes don't like physical touch because of their lack of social understanding of its meaning. I didn't think about that, but it makes sense. It's funny how you say that you know others don't want to hear you talk about something boring and how you don't make eye contact, but you do it anyway. I'm the opposite. I don't know if they want to hear what I have to say, so I stay quiet, yet I make eye contact (although I didn't used to make eye contact). The times when I do share are when I know the other person is interested. Otherwise, I'm fully content on keeping it to myself and thinking about it on my own. Rather than being perceived as someone who overshares, I'm perceived as shy, which I'm not. I also don't mind physical touch, like hugs, from acquaintances or strangers. I just don't see it as a love language until we share quality time.
I was suprised to find touch was a big thing of mine once I accepted that gf's really want you to touch them. When I was young I would have more readily accepted that it was some misunderstanding or that they were just being polite than that they were really attracted to me. Also I agree that mental interruptions are the frustrating thing, i don't care about physical ones that don't disrupt my thoughts but repeatedly interrupting me while I'm concentrating for a trivial reason or bc you feel you deserve my attention in that moment bc you want it will sometimes cause me to lock up. Then I can't think and won't be able to get back on track for awhile even if I'm left alone. Also my sense of hearing has always been sensitive and I don't stare at people when they're talking to me either, that's bonkers, I listen and glance. I wish I could remember the comedians name who said "A fine line separates eye contact from the piercing stare of a psychopath." Also people pay close attention to your eyes and where they're cast and I dont think 5's like people drawing their sometimes idiot conclusions from observing us, it's too much to manage.
I am a 5w4 and am loving how you described me as “detached”, it is interesting. I really enjoy this information! It all helps me to be my better self 😊 Have a great day !
Im a five and I avoid conflict because I have such a strong emotional reaction that it might take me days to recover from when sometimes the other person just needed to explode express etc and move on.
21:21 Everything up to this point was accurate, but the 5s argumentativeness seems extremely misunderstood. I’m not trying to show you I’m smarter, I’m not calling you dumb, I’m trying to HELP you by showing you possible reasons you could be wrong about something, and that you need to reconsider. I could entirely just be playing devils advocate to get you to actually think about what you’re saying, because that’s what I value. I argue because I care that you and I are correct. I would almost say that this is a need for 5s to form relationships. This is a form of care they show, that gets shut down quite often; mostly by 2s,4s,9s.
@@twlahue I can tell you find 5s correcting extremely annoying, but I thought this was worth mentioning because I believe most 5s would agree. Most of personality stuff is subjective and there’s no way to be correct about everything, especially people I loved the video though and thought you did a great job describing everything ❤️
I'm a 5w6 and everything you said about 5s is true. My wife is a 4 and she doesn't understand my need to isolate. I hate the holidays because she makes me go to parties and get togethers and I would much rather just stay home. We are like skittish dogs we will eat out of your hand but we will be very suspicious about it and when you try to grab us we are going to run away.
The intimacy part is all true but I felt like that towards people that I wasn't in an acknowledged relationship. I don't need them much I don't want them to need me too much either. HOWEVER it's complitely different in the relationship with my husband. I feel like it's my space and I'm open, joking around, want to touch, hug, kiss, not all the time of course, but if he initiates it it's fine for me. Maybe bc I'm a female 5w4 which probably makes me a bit more social and externally emotional than male 5s. And he's 4 so he's not very obtrusive like 2s would be. Just a right amount of physical love.
I'm sure it's an adjustment for fives to get in a relationship where they have to share their lair. Lol my son is a five and he likes his room. He does have Aspergers. He has had multiple topics over the years. Sometimes we have to redirect the conversation in a nice way if we have discussed his topic a long time. Great video! Thank you for sharing.
Oh man that's spot on!!! Love-intimacy is about deciding that someone is worth the price of the pains... Freaking perfect!!! I didn't know that this wasn't true for everyone... Woah
My husband's a 5, and indeed on the Autism spectrum.😊 I'm a 9, and I also love the space. But more than anything, I love the fact that he never, ever lies. I didn't even know how much i craved that before. I'm a reader, i love to be able to read for 3 days straight without getting interrupted. I love that he doesn't get demanding and controlling. I respect and admire his clarity, his boundaries, his loyalty, his intelligence. Every 3 months, we take lsd and have the most beautiful, connected weekend😂🎉
I had such a hard time finding my type because I'm a sx 5w4... Doesn't look like the stereotypical 5. Much of this doesn't apply to me. Really enjoyed all your presentations on the Enneagram though.
Does anyone else feel that, after learning the Eneagram, you can't stop thinking of better ways to explain it to loved ones? I'm curious bc, when I first saw value in it, I tried to explain it to loved ones but they acted like it wasnt important. So I kinda gave up trying to make them see it. Then after rethinking everything with a better understanding, I know now I won't stop until I find the perfect way to explain it. In a way that people take me serious enough, that they put just a little of my kind of work in, to learn it.
@@DiamondsRexpensive Good point. I'm not sure why it matters. I think bc of the way people judge me for not being as active as others and thinking I'm not social enough. Also thinking I waste my time. When really, I just like finding information that I didn't know before. I also like sharing useful information, to help others. People usually take this as me "proving how smart I am", when really it's me trying to help bc I know not everyone analyzes information like me. But again, people take it as me implying they are dumb or couldn't figure things out on their own.
I don’t get what the avarice, greed sin bit is? It would be helpful if you would make a video about this sin stuff…it sounds kind of ideological and preachy to me…I am a 5w4 and I am not ranting…educate me.I appreciate you Dr Lahue. I am a fan, I enjoy and religiously watch your channel…
As a type 5 infj, this is accurate, all my friends are intp and something I appreciate from them is their sense if independence high sense of self without being selfish or cold, they very thoughtful and loyal friends, we enjoy life n a very similar way, we quiet, private, we don't talk just to do so, silence doesn't feel awkward between us. Despite of the fame of 5 being cold, we not, we caring, empathic and loyal friends and partners, we just move slowly to get to feel comfortable enough to open up= we take time to observe ppl to see if their align with our lifestyle and values. This doesn't mean that all my friends have to be "like me" bc I value uniqueness n ppl and I love learnings different points of views, I think is more about similar values and morals about life, in the way I can trust em fully.
Tom says that there are 5s who complain about his depiction of them. I've watched several of his videos and he's been spot on with all of my characteristics except for one or two things. It's fascinating how this system can peg you, or at least some of you.
On the note of sexual Fives and needs: I'm pretty sure I'm a 5w4 but not entirely sure whether sx/sp or sp/sx. I vacillate between needing intimacy and connection with one person and feeling the need to run away and withdraw. It honestly feels like a constant tug-of-war in my head, and an ostensibly paradoxical contradiction. I want to be deeply known and understood, yet resist most attempts to do so from others. I see sexual chemistry as a level of intimacy, sharing and understanding that is so sacred it's borderline "woo woo," yet I feel smothered and violated and exhausted by the demands of interacting so often. I don't function well when I'm not in a relationship, but I don't know if that's just hormonal fluctuations and libido clouding my prerogative. I also wonder if I would feel differently about people if I didn't have so many in my space demanding my attention daily. My dilemma in determining the order of my instinctive variants is: does the need to withdraw/conserve/minimize/flee/isolate stem more from the self-preserving variant? Or from the inherent nature of the 5 itself? That is the question. Because if that's just part of being a 5 then I can see how being a sexual 5 would cause that conflict no matter what. But would there be that level of noticeable internal conflict _only_ if self-preservation came first? Would an sp/sx feel the need to withdraw and isolate half the time? Most of the time? I struggle to make the differentiation. Perhaps it is the motivation for retreat that is key... Would it be safe to say that withdrawing as a means to preserve your mental energy or sanity or feeling of ability to survive indicates sp more than standard 5ism? If it's more about social withdrawal and less about maintaining the self, would that be more 5 than sp? Aren't 5s kind of sp by their very nature? Hoarding resources and whatnot? Perhaps looking at how sp manifests in much more extroverted/open/engaged types would help me understand where the boundary lies. How does an sp 2 or sp 7 behave, for example? Anyway, if anyone has suggestions on distinguishing 5w4 sp/sx from 5w4 sx/sp, I'm all ears. Any insight into key differentiators between self-preservation in a vacuum vs the withdrawn style vs typical detachment and minimizing purely from the 5 fixation itself would be greatly appreciated. If you have discovered a pathognomonic sign or _sine qua non_ for either orientation, that'd be super helpful. Also, on the note of PDA and physical expressions of affection, my love language is physical touch -- albeit I generally only want this from one person (a romantic partner; I'm not big on hugs from friends & family, although when I was a kid and needed to be consoled, I remember it bothered me a great deal that I had to ask my mom for a hug). I actually hate holding hands and sometimes kissing, but everything else is fine... necessary, even. I think I tend to think of hand-holding and pecks as too conventional and somehow childish displays or meaningless rituals. Cuddling or a genuine embrace or healing touch is different. At the same time though, I would not say I'm super connected to physical reality. I do feel in tune with my body (moreso internally than with external reality) but when I'm overwhelmed or extremely irritated by someone, I tend to shut down and go into my head and I feel like I'm not even in my body anymore. It's kind if mood-dependent. Maybe that's the 4 wing. I feel like I am often at the extreme end of each side of the spectrum; I really enjoy being lost in the moment and sensory reality, but sometimes it takes a very high level of physical intensity to ground me in my body in reality (actually 8w7s are great at this), and the rest of the time I am just lost in thought. If physical reality is boring and mundane or painful, I don't want to be there. But if there is pleasure and the joy of discovery and novelty to be had, I very much so want to enjoy the moment and even get some 7ish despair over missed opportunities to do so.
This is the most insanely accurate description of who I am from the time I was a baby this is painfully accurate this is why I hate being a parent this is why I hate being a kid this is why I cannot be a wife or a girlfriend this is why I truly love being alone I’m not a narcissist I think I’m empathic but literally you describe who I am completely it’s like one big huge contradiction but somehow you make it make sense
On the debate thing, I’ve had people say in arguments, “you think you’re always right.” Don’t ever say that lol. 1) 5’s change their minds as much (or more) than anyone else. They just do it in private, and after copious amounts of research. 2) Everyone on the planet thinks they’re right about their beliefs. That’s what “believe” means-“I’m convinced X is true.” You cannot simultaneously think you’re wrong about something you think is correct. It’s impossible. Everyone thinks they’re right about what they’re arguing for. It doesn’t mean they ARE right; but it does mean they think they’re right.
I’m extremely aware of my body, and crave physical interaction. I feel very much like I need someone I’m with to be here for me to touch my leg to on the couch. I’m highly intimate emotionally and physically. Sharing my learning journeys with someone is the highlight of my day, and helps me feel like I’m connecting with my partner. Learning about everything, is useless if I can’t share it with the person I’m sharing my space with.
Being a five as a female and I believe I have a six swing from all the test I’ve taken, is very difficult because a lot of people, especially in the workforce, tend to characterize quiet females as potentially bitchy, rude, not as bubbly and social like a lot of women might come across? This is just my experience as a five in meetings where I don’t have anything to say but I have a ton of thoughts about all of my observations. Another observation I have is about fives having a lot of positivity about improving processes but a lot of people are defensive towards the five’s ideas because the five has been quiet in work meetings. But this is not very accurate because more of the five has just been collecting data and trying to figure out where they can best offer their ideas in the most productive manner. I think fives are pretty efficient with how they choose to speak to people and prioritize their energy on convincing people about their observations.
Yeah ... I'm married to a 5 INTP with autism (I think) and it's taken me WAY too long to realize that he thinks of himself as an island. I've always been part of a "we", and it's been 17 years of experience to finally get it, that he does not feel like part of my team. Privacy and independence are one thing, and I like my independence as well (7 or 9, not sure, ENFP), but this excessive not showing up in family life is ruining our family. I was accepting of him needing space from me, but now that he's hurting the kids, I'm not sure that this is going to work. It would be better for him to go away entirely than to do this "I'm physically here but emotionally absent" nonsense.
I believe I am a 5. I am an associate pastor working under a senior pastor that I think is an 8. I often can get frustrated with him but am trying to find a way to sync with him. I believe I also have 4 wing. Find it very difficult to have healthy conflict and expressing my disagreement. Was abused at age of 4 and I’m sure that complicates things. I enjoy being social but have trouble connecting on a deeper level. It is difficult to have friendships where I interact on a regular basis. I see others with close friendships and wish I had that but feel unable.
28:06 I disagree with the concept that 5s are not conscious of social norms, it’s just that not conforming to them makes people much less likely to intrude because they think we are in our own world. Based on this part of the video I’d say it’s working perfectly.
I’m a 6 and was married to a 5. It was one of the scariest and most stressful things of my life being married to him, and who knows, he’d probably say the same about me. I think, now that it’s been 6 years since we divorced and I’ve been remarried for 5 years to an AMAZING type 9, that our marital failure boiled down to the fact that he knew I could never truly make him happy and he was too much of a coward to break up with me instead of marrying me. Because he knew the truth, and I was the one who didn’t see the real him until we got married. I mean, I’m a so/sx 6w7. Everyone can read me like a book and my flaws are just out there for everyone to see. I had no idea, until we were married, the kind of detachment and manipulation I would be subjected to. For the record, I was no peach to be married to, but I grew a lot over the course of our marriage and we had normal marital problems that we could have worked through moderately easily. But he was determined I was 100% of the problem and he just shouldn’t have married me. He abandoned me after almost 7 years of marriage when I was 7 months pregnant with our second child and completely unable to care for myself and our daughter because of how sick and in pain I was. He just didn’t come home one day. I realized very quickly that there actually was nothing I could do, thanks to the help of a therapist who helped me realize that I had given up my entire personality and wants and needs to make someone happy who would never be happy with me. After that, I knew I could let go and I was able to get over the divorce quickly. I don’t know if I’ll ever be the same. I had 6 different father figures growing up and they all left or in the case of my dad, just weren’t very involved in my life ever (lived several states away and I only saw him like once a year). Then I thought I was marrying someone so amazing who would never do that to me, only for it to happen even more painfully. Only now, at the age of almost 32, am I realizing the deep wound of never really having a social life growing up, and being abandoned by or not good enough for anyone I’ve ever cared about. So many of these things are so eye opening about 5s, but honestly, even if I knew all of them he was still always going to leave me. It is crazy how similar my type 5 ex is to my type 9 husband in some ways, and so crazy different in others. The need to have alone time and not have their peace disturbed, as well as the “I’m never mad until I get mad, and then holy crap you better watch out” stuff is very similar. But my type 9 husband is SO much more loving and doesn’t detach so violently. My type 5 ex husband detached so violently it’s like he ripped my arms off because I was still hugging him. The hardest thing was not knowing when I’d get the human version of him or the robot version.
This story stressed me out. I'm a 5w4 and I feel like some of my past partners would have said similar things about me. It could be possible that some 5s will never make good partners. I suspect that my exes felt very isolated when around me and confused about my antics. Anyway, don't blame yourself. I doubt he even knew what he wanted.
@@zane62135 thank you, that’s very kind of you. He seems to have finally figured it out, now on his third marriage. When his wife was his girlfriend she broke up with him because his parents lived with them and his family (parents and siblings) always came before his romantic partners. Shockingly, he actually went to therapy and worked it out with her and they got married. It seems like things are really good for them. It’s impossible to know because he’s so private. I realized the only reason I ever knew anything about him was because I was married to him 😂. He needs someone who doesn’t need him and calls him out on his crap. I was too loyal to leave him no matter how he treated me. Their marriage seems to work well because they’re both very serious and she doesn’t need him around much. They have separate finances, careers, hobbies, etc. My type 9 husband is my best friend and obviously needs his space sometimes but we spend most of our lives together. Everything is shared, he works from home, I’m a stay at home mom to our combined 6 kids, and we’re honestly both our favorite person to spend time with.
Your first relationship is my nightmare, I could see myself behaving like your first husband and it scared me to death. I am really glad that you got a happier ending with a loving partner at the end ❤️.
I wish I had known about the enneagram long ago. People are drawn to me like bees to honey, and I’m as staunch a 5 as one gets. Yet as a lover of Christ, I want to be useful to Him, causing a lot of conflict inside me because every fiber of my being wants solitude. The other personality typing could tell me who I am, such as INFJ, but not where I am healthy versus unhealthy. I have laughed so much at Dr Tom’s descriptions because it’s so me, but he adds the recognition of why I am so obtuse when stressed and where I need to move towards to be healthier for myself but particularly for others. I’m not wallowing in pride that I’m this person, I want to change to my most useful and unstressed self, otherwise, why am I here at all??
I'm a Sx 5w4 and I'm not affectionate at all nor like being in relationships unless I consider the person worthy, then I can even become a little bit clingy ( a little bit) but that rarely happens
I’ve taken a couple of the tests and one time I scored as a one and the other time I scored as a five. I think I’m actually a five and that’s where I’m most comfortable but when I’m with others I slip into the one. Which creates a lot of stress and then I want to retreat. My fiancé is at eight so there are definite points of stress in our relationship
13:45 Oh, God, you've just literally described my relationship. My boyfriend is a tipe 8 and I can assure the hardest thing we've had to deal with ever since we started is this, he's always telling me that he feels the weight of the communication in the relationship is on his shoulders only but generally I can't easily tell when this is happening and he's feeling hurt by it (of course he avoids expressing he's triggered by it or something 🤣🤣 he's an 8, he just says that's not the way relationships should work). I had to go backwards and listen again cause that struggle was a source of anxiety to me for a time since I had no idea how to handle it and I wanted to connect with him. My guess is I'm a sexual 5 but I'm not that sure yet.
Thanks for the video. Words escape me a lot these days too; I think the word you were looking for at around the 17th minute mark is nihilistic. Fatalistic also links to some of what you said there.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Love is less about romance than deciding that a certain person is worth the price and pain that the intrusion/interaction will bring. 🤯
I agree! I weirdly do an unconscious cost benefit analysis of the inexplicable unique joy from the special person vs. the intrusion and messiness of human. Lol 😂
Jup, guilty 😅
Truth. Five here and can confirm, though I didn’t realize it until I heard him say it.
@@jacobmiller8322 same here.
Yup . I’m a 5 w 8
I honestly never understood, as a man, the trope of men not wanting to be with independent women. I’m a 5w4 and I have never been interested in a woman who needs me. I’ve been married to a smart, independent woman for 21 years, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. She does her thing, lets me do mine, and we have things that we do exclusively together. I’m fiercly loyal to her and celebrate her accomplishments as we celebrate mine.
Is not that how everyone should be lol? I hate needy partners too. I can def see your point also a 5.
Same, I'm a woman.
I'm a sexual five, it's hard. I like isolation, but sometimes intense one-on-one relationships. I need someone I can trust completely, transparent, not overly emotional but present 100%.
Me too, all of that! I look thru some comments on RUclips vids I enjoy and I wonder why do people who relate to comments not like actually become friends?
what does the sex variant imply ?
@@intj5w4rloei87 one on one relationship.
I'm a sp/sx, so i am a little bit needy with my significant other too. But just a little bit because the dominant is sp (self preservation), so i enjoy my time alone more.
你明白吗？
I have found type 8s to be the best for this. Then again I'm 58x tritype maybe for 59x and 51x it would be different
@@DanielSansom-cz5yx I agree with this . I’m 5 wing 8. And my husband is 8 wing 5. I’ve never been so sexually comfortable with anyone else. He gives me the intensity I need
Mental connection is a prerequisite to emotional connection. Very true for me
Never felt so validated and understood before I wish people knew this
Same
This guy is really spot on
@@lorigonzalez4518I'm guessing it comes from experience talking to a lot of people and personal study. Not just talking based on all the surface level things online.
"They get a piece of me, they get a piece of me, but nobody gets ALL."
Bruh why is this is so scarily accurate, feeling attacked right now (not rly since i came for it, but i need to make this joke)
Was looking through the comments to see if anyone else mentioned this but LITERALLY HAD ME SHOOK
I'm a sx 5w4 and I struggle with social niceties. Being "nice" just feels fake to me! I don't really like it when people are too nice to me either. It makes me just wonder "what do they want from me?" And it makes me very uncomfortable.
I was just saying the same thing yesterday!
I don't mind it so long as it's brief!
16:48 I think Nihilism was on the tip of your tongue. It shares some concepts with Existentialism. I think all Existentialists have a bit of a Nihilist inside of them, but Existentialists have decided that--despite the world having no innate purpose or meaning--they can develop their own individual purpose. It's an empowering thought for someone who feels the world around them lacks meaning. I think an Unhealthy 5 is an empty Nihilist, and a Healthy 5 becomes a purpose-driven Existentialist.
That was a really good point. My mind might be kind of blown right now
really in-depth words, I've been in existential depression for 1 year, I knew what it's like to be an unhealthy, empty Nihilist, really scary, destructive,
Bro, you have literally described my journey for the last 5 years 😅
Detaching from feelings is such a difficult thing to explain that most people don’t understand. I don’t just REACT to my feelings in real time. I detach from them and then DECIDE to deal with them on my own terms.
Pain is necessary sometimes to heal and move on. I can accept that. Pain is the risk of having meaningful relationships, which I do occasionally enjoy. But it is easier to handle pain when I am prepared, so I detach and deal with my feelings afterwards and on my own terms. It isn’t that I don’t care. It’s that I care a LOT and can’t handle it all at once with no mental preparation.
Fi tertiary? IxTJ?
Omg so perfectly beautifully said. Couldn't have said it any better myself
FiSe + 5
@@yurizafurizaki5574 sounds like tertiary Fi to me too
I feel this way as well. I'm type 5, INFJ
My Type 5 partner gets called "Switzerland" in our circle because he's so neutral, does never take sides when he's not directly involved, avoids HR-management and it's super wholesome to see him just "be default Himself"
I'm a Castle 5 and this was all pretty dead-on for what I look for in a relationship. I've always needed my space. It wasn't until I was over 30 that I even considered living with a romantic partner, and that was a rough transition. I need my alone recharge time. What I think a lot of my partners didn't realize was that just because I needed space away from them, didn't mean I was less fond of them. In fact, I often found my desire GROWING once I was away from them. Once alone, I have my own headspace to think about them, appreciate them, and want them physically. That might seem contradictory, but because my most safe space is alone in my own head, it makes sense that it's easiest for me to explore those thoughts and feelings when I'm alone. When I'm with the person physically, I'm in a different social headspace. I can be engaging, but when interacting my energy is being sucked out into the world like opening a door into the vacuum of space. I'm trying to hold myself from getting sucked out into the void. It's not a good time to think about all the reasons I love you if I don't already have them thought about in advance. As a result, I'm able to articulate my romantic feelings best in the written form. And those are my most pure and honest thoughts, because they were written from a place of safety, security, and mental clarity.
100% resonates
@@sweetbean3599 Not likely. That's like drinking poison and expecting the other person to suffer from it.
While I don't know the circumstances leading to it, the short moment of void left by you ( if there ever was) would be fill up with other interest that had replaced you or what they were interested in before you came into the picture.
@@Highwind79 Thanks. are you a 5?
Yes. I am
@@sweetbean3599 if you are no longer together why do you so desire for him to miss you?
is this to feed your own ego?
I am a 5 and I struggle with relating to 2s because they try to help me when I didn't ask, bombard me with personal questions, and make me feel exposed and on display when they give me too much attention. They tend to make me so uncomfortable and so I withdraw, but this usually makes them try harder to win me over. They could win me over by leaving me alone.
Omg I’m a two married to a 5 and this is so accurate!!!!
@@justinecurtis1753 I feel for you haha! I feel guilty because at times I know I have really hurt 2s feelings. Sometimes when they try too hard to be friendly, complimentary, affectionate or helpful, I react negatively and can be cold or curt with them. I don't want to be mean, but I am afraid that accepting this attention will encourage more in the future. I imagine this can feel very cruel to 2s when their kindness is met with ambivalence and apathy, or even straight rudeness. Sometimes I can tell that they are thinking "Why don't they like me? What do I have to do?". But I usually do like them, I just don't need much from them, and I want them to respect my boundaries. I also don't want them to feel that they need to work for my approval by flattering me and doing me favours. I don't need any of that. Just be you. 5s don't want to need anything from anyone ever, and 2s love to be needed, so I think there is a natural tension and potential for conflict there.
@@justinecurtis1753 I should mention that my lifelong best friend is a 2 so it's not an impossible combination! Although we don't always understand each other intuitively and can annoy each other sometimes we both really value our friendship and the opposite perspectives we can bring to each other. I am often inspired by her giving nature and I can help her analyze problems logically and affirm for her that it's ok for her to say no to people and put herself first sometimes.
Yeah I think 2 and a 5 relationship is definite one of the hardest to navigate for all those reasons you said! Both people need to be in their healthy form of enneagram for it to be good, and when one becomes unhealthy problems come up almost immediately. We’ve been together for 8 years and have found a happy medium and I had to stop comparing my relationship to others because a relationship with a 5 is just different because of that 2 islands idea he was talking about! The thing I admire about 5s though it that their last resort is breaking up and they will try anything before giving up on a relationship! Probably because they don’t want to spend their energy starting over like he said, but it makes me feel special bc they don’t let people in easily 🙌🏻🤗so I must be needed in some way 😁
@@JH-yj7kk perfectly said! Definitely can be difficult but definitely possible 🤗 both people just need to be super self aware 😅
Types like 3's, 8's, and 1's tend to see other people as resources, as means to achieving their long-term goals. Fives tend to see other people as obstacles and diversions from their goals. I'm a 5w4 with a lot of artistic interests - composing music, painting, photography, etc,,, that I actually do want to do more with, and all my life it's seemed that I make more progress without people than with them. Other people tend to demand help and support (that is often not reciprocal) and presume that you should be equally invested in their goals, which are often actually never stated outright, just demanded at the time. People get in the way. When with others, my own goals tend to get put off or sidetracked (often for years), while I end up helping the other person, or everybody just gets caught up in average daily routines that I really don't think anybody is really all that passionate about anyway. A lot of life in intentionless inertia. I'd be happy getting help from others, but most of the time, the things I work on are things they CAN'T help me with, so it's never an even trade. In close relationships, I tend to be the one helping more often than I ask for help, which I don't mind doing personally. But over the years I've come to see that the one DOING the favors is the one more likely to feel invested in the relationship. To let the other person feel as important as they actually are to us, sometimes we need to just let them take care of us and feel needed, even when we'd rather just handle it ourselves.
I agree with all of things you said as a sx 5
"The one invest more are tend to value more the relationship"-100% true
That's why now i prefer the person who invest in me as much as i invest to them
Yeah I often think “this person can’t offer me the caliber of help I can offer them or others.”
Wow, you just described me perfectly 😅
I’m a 2w1 married to a 5w6 for 14 years and I wish I would have known all this at the beginning of my marriage 🤣 my husband is the best and most loyal man but I can be too extra sometimes and he’s like SPACE! It used to hurt my feelings but now I get it.
He is extremely lucky to have someone as understanding as you.
May you always live and share a happy life ❤.
I am a 5 and I approve of this message! This is HILARIOUSLY accurate! Please leave me alone, you are likely to bore me, need something from me and drain me. I won't need to forge a relationship with you either because I won't need you - I will ensure I won't need anyone. You are so on point, Tom. As a self-preservation 5, I think you did a great job here.
As a 5 like this I’ve realized over the past 4 years that this really does have people thinking that we are selfish and none caring. I didn’t want that thus some self transformation occurring
“A non-intrusive, self-sufficient companion”
…so in other words, “a cat”
My husband and I are both 5s and we happily fantasize about two things:
1) Living in two separate houses while talking, joking a lot, laughing everyday on the phone and spending every weekend together.
2) Building a house with a few common rooms and several (many) private rooms for each other. For the time being we have to work with two separate bathrooms and two separate offices. Well, it's a beginning :-D
Two separate houses 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 never heard of a couple this easy going. It's must be great to find someone like-minded 😆
a 2 tiny home plot of land lol
My dream too!
See, I’m a 5 too and want a partner who can reason with my tendencies but even I am not sure I’d go quite this far. My ideal situation would allow us a big house with 2 separate master bedrooms. That way we can both have our own very comfortable space but have the option of being physically available for one another.
I like it🤔
I love that you recognize Fives as fountains of knowledge on countless topics. There are other RUclips teachers out there who claim the exact opposite - that we all limit ourselves to extremely narrow areas of interest. No way. Put me on Jeopardy, man. You don't have to give me any heads up on the categories.
I get that you're conscious of generalizing, but when you say Fives don't like to be the center of attention, I recall how my 2w3 older brother destroyed my guitar when I was five because he hated me standing tall atop the fireplace hearth and belting out songs, claiming everyone's attention and adulation years before I grew out of my "shell". Such is life with a sx/so stack. It was no accident that Lennon wound up on Ed Sullivan's stage belting out Twist and Shout for hordes of screaming girls. He didn't allow it, he demanded it. This is why I crack up at Naranjo's claim that all subtypes of Five look pretty much the same. (We can also want more time, attention, touch, and connection with a partner than they are willing to give, as well as more nights on the town than they desire.) It's true that occasional solitude can be delightful, though.
What I don't want is for anybody to feign interest in anything I have to say. I appreciate a partner who's honest with me and who conveys her interests (and lack of interests) authentically. Dumptrucking is not an inherent need for a Five, just an immature pattern that can be outgrown with supportive communication.
So accurate! I've been married to an sp 5 for decades. I'm really struggling with finally knowing I will never have the marriage I dreamed of and thought I would. I truly believed when we married we could develop an emotional connection since we had a great intellectual connection. I have felt alone and lonely and responsible for everything that needs to be done without any emotional support. I am very low maintenance, but when I do have a need, he gets angry and withdraws from me. I am a loyal, committed person, but I'm starving for emotional connection and love. I am self-sacrificing and caring but now wondering if I can survive in this relationship. He wants me there, just without any needs and in the other room. He doesn't consider my needs at all. Everything is about him. I don't want to hurt him bc I do believe he loves me and wants to stay married. I don't know what to do...
You should really see a couples counselor. 5s have emotions, it just takes the right atmosphere and safety for them to share them.
Many of my friends ask for my emotions and say I don't give them anything to connect with. They say it with an emotional undertone that makes a 5 feel even more unsafe to share.
For me, I opened up more when doing mindfulness practice.
He is a dismissive avoidant, not a 5. Learn about attachment theory. It can help
@@notsoon6721 lol cant he be both
Im a 5. Maybe if you schedule ways to meet your emotional needs ahead of time he might be more open. We don't like being put on the spot or anything spontaneous. But if we can negotiate and agree to a weekly date, we can prepare ourselves.
You have to communicate your needs. It is not selfish to have needs, otherwise it is a onesided relationship, and it is your responsibility to be a martyr or not. You have to share your feelings and needs in a clear, but non-pushy ways. Now you can see his perspective, you have to show to him your perspective. Not demanding things (give space), only showing the way to love you better. If he really loves you he will try it.
...it is my silly advice only. Wish you well! :)
17:00 - the philosophical system you were thinking of was nihilism. I was yelling it at my screen but you clearly didn't hear me.
Thanks... :-)
@@twlahue I'm starting to think you did that on purpose to start conversations in the comment section.
The compartmentalizing is very true, I have like five different Instagram accounts, one for each section of my life
Me too!!! Lol
Me 3! 🤣
Oh gosh me 4 hahaha
That sounds like a lot of work 😅
I went the completely opposite route and just don't have social media XD
I'm a 5w4! Holy Cow this is so me. I need and protect my inner world of investigating & learning. I love people in doses or if I am actively supporting them in coaching them & I like helping fostering resilience & independence. I deeply feeling & few people can understand & handle or be emotionally present for me. So I am selective of what & with whom I share.
I'm married to a 5 and had a chuckle at a lot of your points as they made me think about some of our interactions and fights in our 2 years of marriage. Most of them have been about the fact that he spends 80% of his day either gaming or working which has been a hard thing to not take personally. (My love language is time, and I am a 9w1) He also struggles with Chronic Fatigue so his limit in terms of social interactions is quite low. What was a game changer for us was for me to clearly define my expectations and plans. When he for ex. knows how much time a particular date night will take and what I expect from him in terms of interactions (ex. we will eat dinner then cuddle while watching a movie) he is much more willing and excited to participate!
Hello, My son is a five and married to a five. They both work a lot but describe their "date nights" as very special. I thought this was a little odd but it now makes sense.
I am 9w1 with a 5 and this is helping me, but I also hate having to tell him what I want...or anyone lol. So I will have to work on that. Either I say what I want too casually that he doesn't think I'm serious or I say it in a frustrated angry way when we are arguing.
@@kellikakes81from your comment and the original, it seems 9w1s and 5s can end up together. But that's just two examples. Not enough to say there's a correlation. I think I'm a five and I understand how you may have difficulty communicating what you want directly. I rarely do
Hello I’m a sx 5w4 female and am very affectionate/physical with my significant other. However, I find with my friends and family many times I do want to give a hug or contact but I feel awkward reaching out since I’m always considering their boundaries in my head.
Please do so ... we might be hurt to be the only ones reaching out
I’m also a sexual 5w4 female. I love physical and emotional intimacy with my partner.
I definitely need space from needier types, though
Man, why is this so spot on. I sometimes crave the physical touch or affection, but I feel so awkward initiating it. I am trying to get better at it though.
Sx5 here. I am always wanting to be touching my spouse. Even if it’s just my foot on them while I fall asleep. It’s critical.
As a 5w4, I will say this: I have seen the dark side of what humans can do, and the people who were supposed to love me instead turned out to destroy my youth. My mom sold me as a sex slave and my father exchanged me for a "better" son when he found out I was sold, all by the time I was 15. This is in no way to garner sympathy. It is instead to point out that even though I might be in a "shadowland," I am okay with being there and my life is okay. I don't need to try to change it because, as a very 5 quote says, "People think of themselves and their own situation 99% of the time."
I am okay with being alone. The issue is why does it bother everyone else? Why do people insist that I have to change to make them happy? Why do they have to see me in a relationship or even attached to someone in order to make them feel fine? That isn't my request, that isn't my issue. It is on the observer and their own feelings to accept that some people are just not wired that way. I told a former friend once, "I already have too many stones to carry. I am going to let you keep that one since it isn't mine. You have to carry your own sins."
carry on as you are
they cannot relate or understand , they are outsiders that are fueled by the desire of what they want for themselves.
You are not meant to exhaust/hurt yourself by carrying the stone neither you are compelled to carry others' sins. It's just that when you have seen tbe datk side, make it your strength and be courageous to face the brighter one too.
You deserve it. Do it for yourself whenever you feel you're ready for it.
5:00 Fun fact: highway lines are 10 feet long even though they look shorter. This is because speed warps our sense of distance.
While 5s can come across as reserved and maybe a bit odd....they tend to be really good people. The ones I know anyway. They think through things and don't let their emptions rule them. They don't judge people (unless that person is a jerk right away) as they observe them first before judging, which can lead a person to be being thoughtful and fair. They don't befriend/love people for selfish reasons as they are perfectly fine alone.
I think I am a sexual 5, when you are talking about 5's in the concept of physical touch I am very physically intimate, hand holding, hugs all of that, with those I am connected with, but with lesser relationships, or acquaintances I would rather you don't
At 25:00 all I can say is best that 5's don't assume, as people may expect them to, as it's less confusing.
Exactly, I get so burned out on needless interactions. Why do I have to acknowledge or speak to someone because I pass them in the hall or we’re standing in the elevator together? Why do I have to ask how someone’s day is, I seriously couldn’t care less. I don’t want people to ask about my day either. If I’m sharing a space with someone, I’m trying to be invisible. My dream super power is invisibility. The couple of friends I do have asked me about dating. I said, I don’t bother. Two of my friends finally asked me, “Don’t you have… you know, needs?” I said, Hell yes I have needs, chief among them is the need to be left alone.
I was already making faces at the “should” when you said that it would be problematic for the fives 💀
5w6
Spot on about the islands. Like islands that want a sturdy bridge that can connect to you island.
Just finished listening to "In Relationships With Type 5." Our 22 year old son (single, just graduated college, working, and living at home) is a type 5. So, I can relate to some of the things that you were saying as you were describing them. For example, the "argumentative debater" describes him, not so much now, but in his younger years. In fact, his dad and I used to tell him that he would make a really good lawyer some day!! Lol (This was before we had ever heard of the enneagram.) In addition, you're spot on when you say they're like a "Google Search Engine." He researches everything, gains knowledge about various topics, then shares it with us. The one thing that I'm a bit perplexed about though, is when you said that the type 5 may have a difficult time showing "physical affection." Up until just recently, that seems to have been the case with our son, but to my surprise, one day out of the blue, he said, "Mom, can we start giving each other daily hugs, just to make our day go a little better?!" (I was a bit taken aback.) I answered, "Sure! I'd love to." So, we've been hugging regularly ever since!!
I think it was an inaccurate generalization to say fives don’t like physical affection. They may not like “bad surprises” (unexpected physical touch that is unpleasant or reeks of expectation) and they may not be spontaneous enough to initiate often, but like most people 5s benefit from and appreciate affection AND positive body language.
Anyway.. It’s great that he asked! That is a big deal.
Awe 🥰
As a five, our heads lead to our hearts. We must understand that we can and SHOULD go forth and use that knowledge to make a positive change in the world. The eyes of knowledge we build in greed are meaningless next to the all-knowing nature of God. Being more like God is more than just the eye of knowledge, but the hand of intention that shapes the world around us. This makes us more like an Eight.
Sometimes us fives need help being encouraged to play. If you have a five in your life, be patient with us and allow us to step out and help us feel validated and valued for our knowledge.
Thank you for your video! Great stuff 🙏🏼🙌🏼
ok this is the most accurate description i've encountered so far
I feel like you are totally wrong about why 5s withhold data. As a five one can observe that most people don't real care nor can understand what I have information on. If a five feels like the other person is interested they do a info dump. (which almost never goes well) why the info dump happens is to present needed information to understand the most basic information on the subject. Most people just want to parrot back one commonly repeated (often wrong data on the subject) and call it a day
I agree, but I think it’s also an insecurity thing for some. If they end up giving information that ends up to be wrong it makes them feel unsafe in the situation. I imagine that a healthy 5 would be able to give information that was important or that people could relate to without feeling the need to “show off”. (5w6)
I am so glad my husband didn't have access to this video 20 years ago--he never would have married me if he had known all this 😅
This really helped me to understand my 19 yo daughter more. Thank you.
Wow!!! Thank you so much for the work you've put into this video. I have a young adult son who was diagnosed with 'text book' aspergers 11yrs ago. He is also an Enneagram 5. Even though the focus was on romantic relationships, this video has been enormously helpful for me.
I'm a 5w4 female, and for what you said I'm a sexual type 5. My wing 4 is strong, and the fact that I'm a woman and an INFJ, i think that I am not exactly like this typical type all the time. I strongly need to recharge alone and I don't really follow social norms, but I value intimacy and connection more than anything. I end up being myself with no filters with my partner but not with my friends. It's true we have different groups of friends for different sides of ourselves. Sometimes I withdraw from the world to be just with my partner for a long time. I like that my partner has their hobbies and I have mine, and then we have quality time together. I like physical touch but not too much, I don't like a partner that has no boundaries and is too clingy. I'm more comfortable being the needy person in the relationship than the other person being that
Near the very end at 39 minutes the phone rings you pick it up and hang it up I was actually expecting you to pick it up and then hang up but you took it off the hook that is such a tight five thing to do I give you fat props for staying on topic
Thanks, Tom! One of your 5w4 fans!
As a 5 I know random facts and info. My boyfriend once asked me “how do you know so much about cars” I could talk about history, anatomy…etc I like know vast info. I loved history class in school and just knowing and I like going to museums and just learning info. My mind feels like it runs 100 mph and I’m constantly looking for something to do. I like doing things more efficiently and simple at the same time.
5w4 in a relationship with a female 8 (who spends most of her time in 5 stress lol). This has been the most difficult experience I've ever had trying to bond with someone. But those very few, very short-lived moments of vulnerability make it the most beautiful...we're engaged.
I don’t think I’ve ever felt so called out
I can relate so much to this sense of independence. One of my life goals is to live and die without any external interference, I don't care about politics, relationships, economic systems, etc. I just want to focus on my personal development, life goals, and nothing else. Is just me against the world, this is are how I feel.
I'd never expect anyone to listen to me rambling about stuff that doesn't interest them & just endure it for my sake that sounds awful mainly because it would be asking a big imposition. Rather I'd try to look for a partner who is interested in that stuff *to begin with*.
& if that's just a limited amount of people then thats just how it is
Husband and I were just talking about whether we should go to someone's wedding or go to the family party for the couple later this year. He's a 9. We were both like, "I dunno...skip both?"
Re making polite noises when talking to a stranger but thinking about something else....definitely. I'm thinking, "I have to get out of here. I already have too many friends."
The way this video explained my personality so precisely is eerie. At least I now have a video for people that ask me why I sometimes seem detached.
I'm pretty sure I'm a social 5 (an oxymoron, it may seem) and I find it super hard to not friendzone people I'm interested in because friendship isn't as involved as romantic relationships. In friendships you get the choice to engage or not, it's not all on you to meet the person's emotional needs because they have other friends. The choice to either sit out an event or join in, with no expectations of me to do either, is honestly what I want the most. I don't always want to isolate myself, but when I do I want the choice not to go to the party or the gathering. But when I'm feeling good and mentally ready to hang out with people, I can be engaged and fun to hang out with (at least I think so.)
Howeverrr relationships mean that the choice to engage or not isn't just effecting me, it's also effecting my partner. So now I'm obligated to go to a gathering, even on low battery mode, because if I don't my partner will be sad and it's my fault. :(
It's just a lot of responsibility and energy drain. I like people but I'm just not ready to commit that kind of energy to someone. And yeah, vulnerability is very scary lol.
Oh this helps me love my five even more! (I'm an 8 and I admire his stoicism). THANK YOU!
I'm a 5, but my preferred love language is physical touch (tied with quality time). For that reason, I think I can give my own insight on this. I think it's important to understand that, although I don't like intrusion, it's specifically the intrusion of the MIND that I don't like. I absolutely don't mind physical intrusion, unless it causes some kind of mental intrusion. I will say that it's better if non-physical intimacy comes first, though. Personally -back to the love languages - I seek quality time first, but physical touch is still equally preferred.
When regarding the autism idea, though, I don't think it's the same thing. I'm not a professional psychologist, but I took nearly four years of college in the psychology field before dropping out. The reason why autistic people don't like to be touched, at least from what I can remember, is because it's literally painful, so I don't think you can connect the two. I do think 5s can seem like they're on the spectrum, though, so I'm not discounting your entire idea. My own dad calls me Rainman, sometimes! 😂 Anyway, I just don't think you can connect the physical touch part. Also, I recognize other 5s might be different.
Anyway, I loved the video and you were spot on for almost all of it! Thanks! It's good to have a video I can show people when I need to describe why I do certain things.
Same here! My love language is physical touch, followed by quality time. Btw, are you INTP? Or INFP? And do you know whether you're sp/sx or sx/sp or something else?
Also, on the note of autism, I, myself, am not autistic, though I could possibly be confused with a person on the spectrum at times, but my partner has Aspergers and my little sister is autistic, so I can speak to this from personal experience. Yes, people on the spectrum often have sensory sensitivities. These can be hypersensitivities or hyposensitivities, but more often than not it seems the feeling of being touched can be overwhelming for many people on the spectrum. Even the texture of certain types of fabric can be extremely uncomfortable to them. So the reaction can be one of physical discomfort, sometimes combined with struggling to understand the intentions of the person touching them, as they might not "get" social rituals or have difficulty reading emotion. It that sense it may be not only painful, but confusing and interpreted as possibly threatening.
I often don't want to be touched by strangers or acquaintances, not because the somatic sensation is so uncomfortable, but more often because I feel like my boundaries are being violated and my freedom and autonomy is literally being restricted, if I am held in a long embrace, for instance, literally unable to move or escape. I have a tendency to not look people in the eye when they're talking, and this, coupled with an occasional spurt of oversharing details about niche interests, can possibly make me come across as exhibiting traits that resemble autism. The thing is though, I am perfectly aware that making eye contact is socially-expected and that most people don't want to be bored by dry details of some academic topic. I have some grasp of theory of mind; I know what other people are likely thinking and how I might come across. It's just that sometimes I don't care lol. I think, listen, and process information much better when I'm not looking right at you or being distracted by your facial expressions and wild gesticulation of pantomime theater. So if people don't understand or can't accept that after years of knowing me, they're just not the one for me, in my mind.
@@heatherbryant4197
I'm an INTJ. I don't know what the sp/sx refers to.
I like that you point out that autistic people sometimes don't like physical touch because of their lack of social understanding of its meaning. I didn't think about that, but it makes sense. It's funny how you say that you know others don't want to hear you talk about something boring and how you don't make eye contact, but you do it anyway. I'm the opposite. I don't know if they want to hear what I have to say, so I stay quiet, yet I make eye contact (although I didn't used to make eye contact). The times when I do share are when I know the other person is interested. Otherwise, I'm fully content on keeping it to myself and thinking about it on my own. Rather than being perceived as someone who overshares, I'm perceived as shy, which I'm not. I also don't mind physical touch, like hugs, from acquaintances or strangers. I just don't see it as a love language until we share quality time.
I agree with all of it, I’m exactly the same! I honestly thought I was the ONLY 5 that liked physical touch 🤣
I was suprised to find touch was a big thing of mine once I accepted that gf's really want you to touch them. When I was young I would have more readily accepted that it was some misunderstanding or that they were just being polite than that they were really attracted to me.
Also I agree that mental interruptions are the frustrating thing, i don't care about physical ones that don't disrupt my thoughts but repeatedly interrupting me while I'm concentrating for a trivial reason or bc you feel you deserve my attention in that moment bc you want it will sometimes cause me to lock up. Then I can't think and won't be able to get back on track for awhile even if I'm left alone.
Also my sense of hearing has always been sensitive and I don't stare at people when they're talking to me either, that's bonkers, I listen and glance. I wish I could remember the comedians name who said "A fine line separates eye contact from the piercing stare of a psychopath."
Also people pay close attention to your eyes and where they're cast and I dont think 5's like people drawing their sometimes idiot conclusions from observing us, it's too much to manage.
I am a 5w4 and am loving how you described me as “detached”, it is interesting. I really enjoy this information! It all helps me to be my better self 😊 Have a great day !
“That word should is gonna be problematic for 5’s.” 100% problematic for me.
My husband is an 8 and i am a 5 and he acts more like a 5 at home and i definitely act more like a 8 at home. It's very interesting.
Im a five and I avoid conflict because I have such a strong emotional reaction that it might take me days to recover from when sometimes the other person just needed to explode express etc and move on.
yes! I take a long time to recover too
"The word 'should' is a problem for fives."
21:21
Everything up to this point was accurate, but the 5s argumentativeness seems extremely misunderstood. I’m not trying to show you I’m smarter, I’m not calling you dumb, I’m trying to HELP you by showing you possible reasons you could be wrong about something, and that you need to reconsider. I could entirely just be playing devils advocate to get you to actually think about what you’re saying, because that’s what I value. I argue because I care that you and I are correct.
I would almost say that this is a need for 5s to form relationships. This is a form of care they show, that gets shut down quite often; mostly by 2s,4s,9s.
Thanks
@@twlahue I can tell you find 5s correcting extremely annoying, but I thought this was worth mentioning because I believe most 5s would agree. Most of personality stuff is subjective and there’s no way to be correct about everything, especially people
I loved the video though and thought you did a great job describing everything ❤️
Wow this is scary accurate. I had no idea how much avarice plays out in every facet of my life.
In my experience, sexual fives get called too intense and jealous of sharing the partner
As a sexual five, I relate to this!
My husband is like this. But he also has that avarice with his time and money and tended to only pay attention to me when he wanted intimacy.
I'm a 5w6 and everything you said about 5s is true. My wife is a 4 and she doesn't understand my need to isolate. I hate the holidays because she makes me go to parties and get togethers and I would much rather just stay home. We are like skittish dogs we will eat out of your hand but we will be very suspicious about it and when you try to grab us we are going to run away.
The intimacy part is all true but I felt like that towards people that I wasn't in an acknowledged relationship. I don't need them much I don't want them to need me too much either. HOWEVER it's complitely different in the relationship with my husband. I feel like it's my space and I'm open, joking around, want to touch, hug, kiss, not all the time of course, but if he initiates it it's fine for me. Maybe bc I'm a female 5w4 which probably makes me a bit more social and externally emotional than male 5s. And he's 4 so he's not very obtrusive like 2s would be. Just a right amount of physical love.
I'm sure it's an adjustment for fives to get in a relationship where they have to share their lair. Lol my son is a five and he likes his room. He does have Aspergers. He has had multiple topics over the years. Sometimes we have to redirect the conversation in a nice way if we have discussed his topic a long time. Great video! Thank you for sharing.
Oh man that's spot on!!! Love-intimacy is about deciding that someone is worth the price of the pains... Freaking perfect!!! I didn't know that this wasn't true for everyone... Woah
My husband's a 5, and indeed on the Autism spectrum.😊 I'm a 9, and I also love the space. But more than anything, I love the fact that he never, ever lies. I didn't even know how much i craved that before.
I'm a reader, i love to be able to read for 3 days straight without getting interrupted. I love that he doesn't get demanding and controlling. I respect and admire his clarity, his boundaries, his loyalty, his intelligence.
Every 3 months, we take lsd and have the most beautiful, connected weekend😂🎉
Every 5 dream relationship ❤.
I had such a hard time finding my type because I'm a sx 5w4... Doesn't look like the stereotypical 5. Much of this doesn't apply to me. Really enjoyed all your presentations on the Enneagram though.
Does anyone else feel that, after learning the Eneagram, you can't stop thinking of better ways to explain it to loved ones?
I'm curious bc, when I first saw value in it, I tried to explain it to loved ones but they acted like it wasnt important. So I kinda gave up trying to make them see it. Then after rethinking everything with a better understanding, I know now I won't stop until I find the perfect way to explain it. In a way that people take me serious enough, that they put just a little of my kind of work in, to learn it.
Why does being taken seriously matter? Not everyone is meant to see the things you see.
@@DiamondsRexpensive Good point. I'm not sure why it matters. I think bc of the way people judge me for not being as active as others and thinking I'm not social enough. Also thinking I waste my time. When really, I just like finding information that I didn't know before. I also like sharing useful information, to help others. People usually take this as me "proving how smart I am", when really it's me trying to help bc I know not everyone analyzes information like me. But again, people take it as me implying they are dumb or couldn't figure things out on their own.
Yessir two posts within a week
I realize now I need to brush up on my highway line coloring system
I don’t get what the avarice, greed sin bit is? It would be helpful if you would make a video about this sin stuff…it sounds kind of ideological and preachy to me…I am a 5w4 and I am not ranting…educate me.I appreciate you Dr Lahue. I am a fan, I enjoy and religiously watch your channel…
As a type 5 infj, this is accurate, all my friends are intp and something I appreciate from them is their sense if independence high sense of self without being selfish or cold, they very thoughtful and loyal friends, we enjoy life n a very similar way, we quiet, private, we don't talk just to do so, silence doesn't feel awkward between us. Despite of the fame of 5 being cold, we not, we caring, empathic and loyal friends and partners, we just move slowly to get to feel comfortable enough to open up= we take time to observe ppl to see if their align with our lifestyle and values.
This doesn't mean that all my friends have to be "like me" bc I value uniqueness n ppl and I love learnings different points of views, I think is more about similar values and morals about life, in the way I can trust em fully.
5w4 (INTJ)- great video; I could relate/validate to most everything
Growing as a 5 and learning social skills helps a lot, church helped be learn these skills. Still draining but can be enjoyable ;)
Tom says that there are 5s who complain about his depiction of them. I've watched several of his videos and he's been spot on with all of my characteristics except for one or two things. It's fascinating how this system can peg you, or at least some of you.
Thanks
On the note of sexual Fives and needs: I'm pretty sure I'm a 5w4 but not entirely sure whether sx/sp or sp/sx. I vacillate between needing intimacy and connection with one person and feeling the need to run away and withdraw. It honestly feels like a constant tug-of-war in my head, and an ostensibly paradoxical contradiction. I want to be deeply known and understood, yet resist most attempts to do so from others. I see sexual chemistry as a level of intimacy, sharing and understanding that is so sacred it's borderline "woo woo," yet I feel smothered and violated and exhausted by the demands of interacting so often. I don't function well when I'm not in a relationship, but I don't know if that's just hormonal fluctuations and libido clouding my prerogative. I also wonder if I would feel differently about people if I didn't have so many in my space demanding my attention daily.
My dilemma in determining the order of my instinctive variants is: does the need to withdraw/conserve/minimize/flee/isolate stem more from the self-preserving variant? Or from the inherent nature of the 5 itself? That is the question. Because if that's just part of being a 5 then I can see how being a sexual 5 would cause that conflict no matter what. But would there be that level of noticeable internal conflict _only_ if self-preservation came first? Would an sp/sx feel the need to withdraw and isolate half the time? Most of the time? I struggle to make the differentiation. Perhaps it is the motivation for retreat that is key... Would it be safe to say that withdrawing as a means to preserve your mental energy or sanity or feeling of ability to survive indicates sp more than standard 5ism? If it's more about social withdrawal and less about maintaining the self, would that be more 5 than sp? Aren't 5s kind of sp by their very nature? Hoarding resources and whatnot? Perhaps looking at how sp manifests in much more extroverted/open/engaged types would help me understand where the boundary lies. How does an sp 2 or sp 7 behave, for example?
Anyway, if anyone has suggestions on distinguishing 5w4 sp/sx from 5w4 sx/sp, I'm all ears. Any insight into key differentiators between self-preservation in a vacuum vs the withdrawn style vs typical detachment and minimizing purely from the 5 fixation itself would be greatly appreciated. If you have discovered a pathognomonic sign or _sine qua non_ for either orientation, that'd be super helpful.
Also, on the note of PDA and physical expressions of affection, my love language is physical touch -- albeit I generally only want this from one person (a romantic partner; I'm not big on hugs from friends & family, although when I was a kid and needed to be consoled, I remember it bothered me a great deal that I had to ask my mom for a hug). I actually hate holding hands and sometimes kissing, but everything else is fine... necessary, even. I think I tend to think of hand-holding and pecks as too conventional and somehow childish displays or meaningless rituals. Cuddling or a genuine embrace or healing touch is different.
At the same time though, I would not say I'm super connected to physical reality. I do feel in tune with my body (moreso internally than with external reality) but when I'm overwhelmed or extremely irritated by someone, I tend to shut down and go into my head and I feel like I'm not even in my body anymore. It's kind if mood-dependent. Maybe that's the 4 wing. I feel like I am often at the extreme end of each side of the spectrum; I really enjoy being lost in the moment and sensory reality, but sometimes it takes a very high level of physical intensity to ground me in my body in reality (actually 8w7s are great at this), and the rest of the time I am just lost in thought. If physical reality is boring and mundane or painful, I don't want to be there. But if there is pleasure and the joy of discovery and novelty to be had, I very much so want to enjoy the moment and even get some 7ish despair over missed opportunities to do so.
Consider your attachment style too. It seems like you are anxious-avoidant. I believe there are CBT exercises to help with this
This is the most insanely accurate description of who I am from the time I was a baby this is painfully accurate this is why I hate being a parent this is why I hate being a kid this is why I cannot be a wife or a girlfriend this is why I truly love being alone I’m not a narcissist I think I’m empathic but literally you describe who I am completely it’s like one big huge contradiction but somehow you make it make sense
On the debate thing, I’ve had people say in arguments, “you think you’re always right.” Don’t ever say that lol. 1) 5’s change their minds as much (or more) than anyone else. They just do it in private, and after copious amounts of research. 2) Everyone on the planet thinks they’re right about their beliefs. That’s what “believe” means-“I’m convinced X is true.” You cannot simultaneously think you’re wrong about something you think is correct. It’s impossible. Everyone thinks they’re right about what they’re arguing for. It doesn’t mean they ARE right; but it does mean they think they’re right.
I’m extremely aware of my body, and crave physical interaction. I feel very much like I need someone I’m with to be here for me to touch my leg to on the couch. I’m highly intimate emotionally and physically. Sharing my learning journeys with someone is the highlight of my day, and helps me feel like I’m connecting with my partner. Learning about everything, is useless if I can’t share it with the person I’m sharing my space with.
Thank you so much! I feel like somebody finally understands me! Although, your video gave me a wake up call🙌🏼🙌🏼
I feel seen. HOW DARE YOU?
Being a five as a female and I believe I have a six swing from all the test I’ve taken, is very difficult because a lot of people, especially in the workforce, tend to characterize quiet females as potentially bitchy, rude, not as bubbly and social like a lot of women might come across? This is just my experience as a five in meetings where I don’t have anything to say but I have a ton of thoughts about all of my observations.
Another observation I have is about fives having a lot of positivity about improving processes but a lot of people are defensive towards the five’s ideas because the five has been quiet in work meetings. But this is not very accurate because more of the five has just been collecting data and trying to figure out where they can best offer their ideas in the most productive manner. I think fives are pretty efficient with how they choose to speak to people and prioritize their energy on convincing people about their observations.
Yeah ... I'm married to a 5 INTP with autism (I think) and it's taken me WAY too long to realize that he thinks of himself as an island. I've always been part of a "we", and it's been 17 years of experience to finally get it, that he does not feel like part of my team.
Privacy and independence are one thing, and I like my independence as well (7 or 9, not sure, ENFP), but this excessive not showing up in family life is ruining our family. I was accepting of him needing space from me, but now that he's hurting the kids, I'm not sure that this is going to work. It would be better for him to go away entirely than to do this "I'm physically here but emotionally absent" nonsense.
I believe I am a 5. I am an associate pastor working under a senior pastor that I think is an 8. I often can get frustrated with him but am trying to find a way to sync with him. I believe I also have 4 wing. Find it very difficult to have healthy conflict and expressing my disagreement. Was abused at age of 4 and I’m sure that complicates things. I enjoy being social but have trouble connecting on a deeper level. It is difficult to have friendships where I interact on a regular basis. I see others with close friendships and wish I had that but feel unable.
28:06 I disagree with the concept that 5s are not conscious of social norms, it’s just that not conforming to them makes people much less likely to intrude because they think we are in our own world. Based on this part of the video I’d say it’s working perfectly.
This was so helpful. I’ve watched so many videos on partnerships with fives and this has been the most clear and valuable so far. Thank you 🌍
Wow!! I feel like you were describing every detail about me to the T! 😃 INTJ 5
I’m a 6 and was married to a 5. It was one of the scariest and most stressful things of my life being married to him, and who knows, he’d probably say the same about me. I think, now that it’s been 6 years since we divorced and I’ve been remarried for 5 years to an AMAZING type 9, that our marital failure boiled down to the fact that he knew I could never truly make him happy and he was too much of a coward to break up with me instead of marrying me. Because he knew the truth, and I was the one who didn’t see the real him until we got married. I mean, I’m a so/sx 6w7. Everyone can read me like a book and my flaws are just out there for everyone to see. I had no idea, until we were married, the kind of detachment and manipulation I would be subjected to. For the record, I was no peach to be married to, but I grew a lot over the course of our marriage and we had normal marital problems that we could have worked through moderately easily. But he was determined I was 100% of the problem and he just shouldn’t have married me. He abandoned me after almost 7 years of marriage when I was 7 months pregnant with our second child and completely unable to care for myself and our daughter because of how sick and in pain I was. He just didn’t come home one day. I realized very quickly that there actually was nothing I could do, thanks to the help of a therapist who helped me realize that I had given up my entire personality and wants and needs to make someone happy who would never be happy with me. After that, I knew I could let go and I was able to get over the divorce quickly. I don’t know if I’ll ever be the same. I had 6 different father figures growing up and they all left or in the case of my dad, just weren’t very involved in my life ever (lived several states away and I only saw him like once a year). Then I thought I was marrying someone so amazing who would never do that to me, only for it to happen even more painfully. Only now, at the age of almost 32, am I realizing the deep wound of never really having a social life growing up, and being abandoned by or not good enough for anyone I’ve ever cared about. So many of these things are so eye opening about 5s, but honestly, even if I knew all of them he was still always going to leave me. It is crazy how similar my type 5 ex is to my type 9 husband in some ways, and so crazy different in others. The need to have alone time and not have their peace disturbed, as well as the “I’m never mad until I get mad, and then holy crap you better watch out” stuff is very similar. But my type 9 husband is SO much more loving and doesn’t detach so violently. My type 5 ex husband detached so violently it’s like he ripped my arms off because I was still hugging him. The hardest thing was not knowing when I’d get the human version of him or the robot version.
This story stressed me out. I'm a 5w4 and I feel like some of my past partners would have said similar things about me. It could be possible that some 5s will never make good partners. I suspect that my exes felt very isolated when around me and confused about my antics.
Anyway, don't blame yourself. I doubt he even knew what he wanted.
@@zane62135 thank you, that’s very kind of you. He seems to have finally figured it out, now on his third marriage. When his wife was his girlfriend she broke up with him because his parents lived with them and his family (parents and siblings) always came before his romantic partners. Shockingly, he actually went to therapy and worked it out with her and they got married. It seems like things are really good for them. It’s impossible to know because he’s so private. I realized the only reason I ever knew anything about him was because I was married to him 😂. He needs someone who doesn’t need him and calls him out on his crap. I was too loyal to leave him no matter how he treated me. Their marriage seems to work well because they’re both very serious and she doesn’t need him around much. They have separate finances, careers, hobbies, etc. My type 9 husband is my best friend and obviously needs his space sometimes but we spend most of our lives together. Everything is shared, he works from home, I’m a stay at home mom to our combined 6 kids, and we’re honestly both our favorite person to spend time with.
Your first relationship is my nightmare, I could see myself behaving like your first husband and it scared me to death. I am really glad that you got a happier ending with a loving partner at the end ❤️.
I wish I had known about the enneagram long ago. People are drawn to me like bees to honey, and I’m as staunch a 5 as one gets. Yet as a lover of Christ, I want to be useful to Him, causing a lot of conflict inside me because every fiber of my being wants solitude.
The other personality typing could tell me who I am, such as INFJ, but not where I am healthy versus unhealthy. I have laughed so much at Dr Tom’s descriptions because it’s so me, but he adds the recognition of why I am so obtuse when stressed and where I need to move towards to be healthier for myself but particularly for others. I’m not wallowing in pride that I’m this person, I want to change to my most useful and unstressed self, otherwise, why am I here at all??
Never felt so validated 🤯
I'm a Sx 5w4 and I'm not affectionate at all nor like being in relationships unless I consider the person worthy, then I can even become a little bit clingy ( a little bit) but that rarely happens
Cutting people off and frivolous energies=[efficiency]👍
oh hi another libertarian
As a type 2 married to a type 5... THANK U! 💕💕💕💕
I’ve taken a couple of the tests and one time I scored as a one and the other time I scored as a five. I think I’m actually a five and that’s where I’m most comfortable but when I’m with others I slip into the one. Which creates a lot of stress and then I want to retreat. My fiancé is at eight so there are definite points of stress in our relationship
Great insight very proud of this
Awesome
Extremely illuminating
Take a shot whenever he takes his glasses on or off
How do 5s stay sane as parents? This scares me.
13:45 Oh, God, you've just literally described my relationship. My boyfriend is a tipe 8 and I can assure the hardest thing we've had to deal with ever since we started is this, he's always telling me that he feels the weight of the communication in the relationship is on his shoulders only but generally I can't easily tell when this is happening and he's feeling hurt by it (of course he avoids expressing he's triggered by it or something 🤣🤣 he's an 8, he just says that's not the way relationships should work). I had to go backwards and listen again cause that struggle was a source of anxiety to me for a time since I had no idea how to handle it and I wanted to connect with him. My guess is I'm a sexual 5 but I'm not that sure yet.
Thanks for the video. Words escape me a lot these days too; I think the word you were looking for at around the 17th minute mark is nihilistic. Fatalistic also links to some of what you said there.