Crazy how good the A7SIII is when stacked up to these beasts. Needs a little more work in the color grade compared to the other two but its so minimal. Cameras have come so far in the last few years
Absolutely. And based on Caleb Pikes findings in his latest video... some of my headache could have been with slog3 in particular. Slog2 seems to have better skintones and we both know the standard creative style is amazing. Stoked to try ProRes raw when it arrives
@@indymogul and also using wheels to fix one hue......bro all you had to do was just use a hue vs hue to avoid that shirt problem smh. lol, but either way thanks for making this video. Not perfect but hey, at least your making good content and getting out there.
The only issue is the additional cost of that color grading costs way more then the difference in price of the cameras in serious commercial production.
@@indymogul Love SLOG2, still grading FS700 / ProRes 12bit in that profile and the more cameras the use the more I keep noticing SLOG2 may be truly future proof.
The ISO comparison is a bit of a cheat. The real test isn’t with full studio lighting. The real test should be in actual low-light situations where the camera has to do more interpolation. That’s the work.
The entire test was bad.. First: Grading each video on his personal preference just mixed up the small nuances that you would usually see. So he should not grade on his personal reference instead should grade both videos the same and maybe just use a LUT. Second: You instantly now which video was shoot with a professional cinema camera because on that they used a professional cinema-grade prime lens and kn the a7iii they used a normal sony lens (I might even think it was a zoom lens!) Worst camera comparison ever seen. Sorry but that s not how it is done professionally...
@@florianherrmann4093 The mere fact that a 3000 usd photo camera can be indistinguishable from 70 000 usd Hollywood movie camera and you need to push them harder to see the difference is nothing short of a miracle.
Good point. Same here... but unfortunately the only days we had the cameras... the fires were really bad. You can see how brown/orange everything is from the fires here in LA
If you pay attention to the stabilization, it's "easy" to see what was shot on the A7siii or the Alexa/Venice. This is saying that the a7siii is holding up quite nicely if you end up watching it on youtube anyway~
Personally, I was looking at the contrast, you see enough of these comparisons and I've found that the Alexa footage is always slightly lower contrast than whatever it's put up against wether that be a Sony camera or a Red camera. I wasn't sure I was going to get the Venice comparison right but I felt like there was something less harsh about the skin textures on one vs the other and I ended up calling that one correctly as well.
I'm a bit dubious about this video. Seems promotional. Specially with the cam coming out this week. The camera 2 footage is just so clearly made to look better.
Comparing cameras outside on an overcast day is pointless. I wanted to see how it handled highlights and low light, not the most minimal bs color shift
The A7sIII wins in low light over any Cinema Camera, you can shoot with the moon as your only light source... The ARRI has +2 stops of dynamic range than any other camera so you have a little better highlight rolloff.
It's pretty difficult to immediately spot which camera was which, however looking at the colour tones made it fairly clear. 1: In an attempt to correct the magenta - the skin is a sickly green from the a7SIII 2: The Alexa colour science's classic blueish-green sky is easily distinguishable from the magenta/grey on the a7SIII 3: When correcting the magenta, everything in the scene looks duller on the a7SIII than on the Venice
Whenever I see comparisons with Arri vs other cameras, I'm always surprised by how the skintones look better exposed on the Arri. I don't get how, because it's not like they're always brighter or darker, just always *better*, whatever difference is needed for the situation.
@@matthewphillips5483 Ya actually we all have some bias and I think that is the reason why people love arri as it seems more true to real life in for of colour reproduction, relative luminescence level between different scenes and dynamic range which is closest to human eye as compared to any other camera.
My two cents, if I may.. For a true comparison these would help: -Hard sunlight, mixed light, studio lighting set ups. (I saw your comment that it was grey and there was smoke from the forest fires!) -Raw vs Raw - it's pointless comparing Raw vs compressed footage. -Shoot on a tripod -Try doing anything with the footage in After Effects. See if it holds up. -Greenscreen keying easy or hard. Hope this helps! Cheers
Wow! So glad I jumped on the Sony A7s III 2 months ago, just need it to ship. Yeah, two months ago. Did I mention two months ago? Ummm...going to go get some cheese for my whine. 🤦♂️
@@BasicFilmmaker Got one of mine yesterday. My second is listed as backordered. Purchased local dealer. Wait until you see that big beautiful unbelievable EVF. Yes the AF is great, but that EVF makes manual focus so fun and easy that it's hard not to MF that MF.
Camera Assistant here to poop the party. There is no much point in comparing basic 709 images. Beyond an image quality you can almost make everything look good in post (if there is no problem in the image like bad exp. or clipping -where more DR can help for example), you can show the differences more with "extreme" like non-diffused daylight scenes, night and dusk shots, and EVEN THEN you have to show how far can we take the image in post, because NO ONE RENTS A 60K CAM TO JUST PASTE A 709 ON IT. These cams have so much more in them than just the image quality, and for me image quality matters the least when on set (until something is off with the cam, then it is my job to solve it). Arri manages to keep the camera crew, the scrip, the DIT and the wrangler in mind when designing their cameras interface and build, these are little things, like the always on info for the scripts screen, but Sony keeps f ing up these all the time (havent used the Venice, I heard good feedback on that camera, but the FX9 and the FS7 are piles of ... on set), and the A7SIII completely lacks of these features, so this is why we preffer Arris over anything else, not the image quality. (I know you did mention some of these I just started writing in the beginning of the video) "...you can get a fully rigged out cinema machine using something like the A7SIII..." as I stated above, these cameras are much more than just the image quality, so no, you cant get a fully rigged out cinema machine out from the A7SIII, however, the image quality is getting up there! The video made the impression when amateur phone reviewers compares a phone to their budget MILC or DSLR and say that it is on the same level or even the phone has a better camera while clearly they just cant use the camer. No I dont say you cant use these cameras, the video just felt like that on the next level: instead phone to MILC it is MILC to cinema. Anyway, looks like a fun video, just not for me. I wanted this to be constructive criticism not a rant, I hope I have succeded. And I like your work so keep up!
It's done for people that are looking for the A7S3, but even than it's a weird review - both the ISO test and the image. No real low light test and dynamic range, hugely different lenses. Weird even for an amature.
ok ok.. point taken. thank you for the insight btw. my guess is that the video is mostly aimed at amateurs or 'enthusiast' cinematographers (even if he glances over the idea for professionals to have this as a 2nd or 3rd camera), who are not yet fully into the 'real deal' if that makes sense. they have less demands and expect less from gear, and specifically want a good image to begin with : P I know this because I am really in love with photography and cinematography but far far from being pro. Therefore I am immensely impressed by the video quality footage, and some shots almost fooled me. But yea ok it's obviously 60k vs 3k. Obviously there is more to it, I think this has to be clear, and I doubt the guys making the video are unaware of it.
I don't agree! lot of people in cinema industry are emotional about there choice . One of the least reliable camera is the RED but it's has a strong followers. Sony has a long tradition in Live tv broadcast industry and known for their reliability.
Actually what gives each comparison away easily is autofocus - when one of the cameras in A or B looses focus and the other doesn't then thats how I could tell its the A7SIII as the A7 has rock solid focus!
Also one camera was higher than the other so that alone told me which one was the A7Siii as it was the one with more image above the frame of the other camera.
@@ThisIsTechToday That feeling when you can't take an objective fact about digital sharpening and flex with a comment: 'Buying another a7siii' Cope much?
The biggest take away I get from this video is that the film making world is more open to indie film makers thanks to the high tech in the "pro-sumer" cameras out there. These are the best of times for film makers of all budget levels. Thanks, Indy Mogul.
wow... I found for about 50% of the shots I preferred the a7siii and then the other.. the shot would make way more difference than the camera at this point (at least for the first two tests).. and obviously the lens
Dave Dugdale hey Dave you’ve been instrumental to the fame of the A7s. You should really be a Sony rep for this camera line. Because I only understood the true power of that camera after you shot your low lite fishing ting😂 . And even Sony themselves didn’t have anything to Mach your creativity, as a result they are still using your footage 3 gen after . We all know that P.B shot the now I see , parts but only the original part 1 expose the true potential of that camera. But your approach and method ( shoot and change iso ) was key into the success of this camera. So I’m sure if Sony is listening that they should include you they pre-production program. ( and they should also drop you a couple of coins for the effort 😄🤣) I’m sure everyone will agree that DAVE’s methods was informative and technical at the same time, but everyone else’s just boom here is the result. ( well how did you get there ? What did you use?😨🤭)
Indy Mogul It definitely shows. Many of my favorite movies of the last decade were shot on Alexa and I kept thinking the A7S III footage was the Alexa. Well done!
I can’t believe I thought the a7s3 image looked better than the Alexa. It had a lower depth of field. Would love to see you do a comparison with the Panasonic s5 which has better colour science
I am curious why the Panasonic S1H is left out of every test against full frame cinema cameras. It shoots Prores Raw and now one can change white balance. Please do a comparison pls
I wonder if the magenta shift is just the internal codecs? Waiting to see some 16bit linear RAW external to 12bit log RAW on Ninja V examples focusing on color :-)
7:40 "our aperture settings weren't exactly the same" lol understatement of the week. Using two VERY different lenses makes it nottt a particularly even comparison
@@Jsfilmz I think the point of the comparison is using a consumer camera with a consumer lens versus a cinema camera with a cinema lens. How many people are going to adapt a $20,000 lens to their Sony Alpha?
hmm. It appears that green was introduced when correcting the A7Siii. I could tell instantly which was which, focus and textures and stability aside just due to whatever happened with the color. To be frank the siii is killer, i will be getting one...but I really wasn't the biggest fan of any of the colors or shots from these comparisons of any of the cameras lol....no matter still love y'all! and THANKS for the peek
Yup, especially when we dropped the audio to our 12-bit ATOMOS and linear 16-bit NL recorder, it was pushable beyond our 2019 C500 and the footage from rented F35 and S35 ARRI's that we have. And was a lot less problematic in terms of overheating than our RED and no noise to boot! It is just a pure pleasure to work with these amazing little powerhouse mirrorless cams; and even the 10-bit ProRes makes several of our moderately expensive cams fairly irrelevant. We had to return the eval, but ordered 4 A7SIII's, a bunch of parfocal and vintage cine and stilld glass and after selling the other Canons, two BM 4K Production EF's, a RED and related gear, we liberated a lot of money. And we went 100% 10Gbit backbone to RAID 60's, added DANTE AV and allocated budget for a VFX editor and new bay. When you add to the fact that we will likely be saving a few people's backs, the initial week we spent coming up with custom LUT's and scripts makes the new SONY a no-brainer for us. THANK YOU SONY!
I love Arri colors so much then on the first one I prefered and was confident number 2 was the Arri. No way it was was the A7s3. I first didn't believe it. XD
Obviously there's personal preference but when viewing on a calibrated monitor the Alexa in that comparison almost always has more natural looking colours. A lot of green where there shouldn't be on the Sony, but that may also be his grade.
would really like to see more comparison between the Alexa LF and A7III.. especially during a sunny day and also an example where you show pushing the colors. Really appreciate this video!
There has been a dramatic shift in the marginal difference between consumer and pro cameras in the last decade. I would argue that it is impossible for the average person to be able to distinguish between a Red vs. Arri Alexa vs. Sony A7S III. I’d actually even be surprised if pros could tell them apart if there was no footage to compare against. I’d love to see you guys do a challenge in which you play 10 minutes of footage on 10 different cameras on 10 different days all using the same lens and guess what camera is being used (same or similar grading in post, obviously). I bet you would get maybe half or fewer correct.
Hi, guys! ) Cool comparison! Thank you) Blue things is more blue in the Sony a7s3. Grey things looks with margenta. Ari more realistic skin tone. The A7S3 is a cool camera, but the blue and margenta shades immediately make it stand out from other cameras. I want to buy a Sony a7s3, but the problem with the shades stops me ...
Just looked at the focusing and was able to tell which was which between the a7s3 and arri. The comparison between the two sonys were much more difficult.
I guessed both correctly. Conclusion? It has always been about colour science. Alexa Mini & Venice are beautiful. I would love you compare the colour science of Fuji XT3/4 to Alexa and Venice. For me, colour science is number one for any cinematic filming.
12bit @ 4444 is the piece that is hard to lose from the Alexa for me, but the Sony camera in the right situations looks great! Something to say about versatility versus portability, and that the gap is getting smaller. The Alexa is a weapon, plain and simple- it is such a versatile camera and can be stretched so far on the day and in the grade. But these smaller cameras are making something really impressive! Still gotta hone your skills to make an image great, but the right tools are always a great place to start. Preaching to myself 😌
Amazing video, and it is remarkable that A7sIII is even comparable to the Arri in some comparisons. However, one must emphasize that the difference is still big. Like in the ISO Test, you can clearly see how the A7SIII was clipping the pink light, while the venice and the ARRI were not. This lead gets bigger and bigger with mixed lighting situations, heavy color grades, etc.
well the highlights on the skin ( the white shiny highlights) are the same as in the venice shot. Plus the iso test is about noise. WHat you are reffereing to is dynamic range. which the other cameras may be better at, and may be because they are captured raw and of course i believe the zeiss lense 0n venice is better than gmaster on the a7siii
So I got my A7S III last week. I'm in a room with a 30 watt bulb (actually a 3 W LED behind a lamp shade - providing equivalent illumination of a 30 W bulb). It's 5 AM in the morning - pitch dark outside - no exterior light. It's lighting a desk and I'm exposed properly for S-LOG3 (with +1.7 overexposure) and shooting I'm at F5.6 (yah 5.6) at ISO 12800. Across the room 15 feet away I am exposing a shelf perfectly good @ F2.8 to 3.2 with S-LOG3 exposure compensation. WTF ! Low light mega beast - uh ya - geez !
I get that this is mainly a clickbait video but this is a very underwhelming “comparison” video. Should set up a scene with highlights and deep shadows, multiple colors and show how each camera handles it. With the same lens on all 3.
2 years after this video was uploaded I notice that it’s Internal recording and not in PRORESRAW where the magenta green shifting desapeare and gets a real 12bit LOG RAW vs 12bit ARRI CLOG RAW and get it’s true colorcience potencial. And it’s PP11 with S-Cinetone it’s here too, so it get a better results.
With Sony VG-C3EM Vertical Grip, the battery never be an issue. I noticed even the production camera they change battery a lot in a scene. For the Color depth and even the quality of image , the A7S iii can go up to 16bit Raw over 600MBits for a 4K resolution. I just personally thought the A7S iii the much more advanced camera even compare to the ARRI and Red. The canon new cinema camera C70 getting smaller size too. I just think there are too much old fastion rule people love to hold . The good footage means everything, if the way we can make that shot can get much eaiser and effective, the Sony is doing the right thing.
It was way too easy to guess. In first comparison there was color shift (not only sony, but alexa also has color misrepresentation but in its own way), and in both cases there was obvious difference in focusing and stabilization. a7s3 wins in focusing and stabilization, and color actually can be corrected, not perfectly, but to the point where you cannot notice it at all. So for me it looks like a7s3 not just not loses, but wins.
No camera is going to be 100% perfect, but the Alexa image looks much more natural on a calibrated monitor than the Sony one does. On top of that you don't use things like IBIS or autofocus on a camera like the Alexa, you use a Steadycam or Trinity for stabilization and a 1st AC for pulling focus.
Nice video! I was able to guess the Arri and Venice on both tests with a high degree of confidence. Since dynamic range wasn't an issue, the giveaway was the color science, especially how they reacted to artificial lighting. The A7S3 had a much stronger yellow cast any time artificial lights came into play. See 1:50, 2:31, 2:51. You see the same issues in the low light test; the purple kicker light looks super electric on the A7S3. Next, skin tones. At 5:32, 5:40, the Venice has a much nicer skin tone whereas the A7S3 he has a strong yellow cast on his right cheek. Same at 6:34. In the low light test, his skin looks anemic in the A7S3. Lastly color palette. The A7S3 has more electric saturated "video" colors, whereas the Arri and Sony have a more "filmic" color palette. You can really see it in the yellows, blues, and greens. (2:09, 2:48 for how blues compare, 5:47, 6:57 for how yellows & greens compare).
I noticed the slightly oversaturated yellows and greens on the A7S III immediately. I was right in guessing the camera both times because of that. Kinda sucks since I just bought the A7S III myself and I was really hoping that they fixed that. But I guess you're right in saying that you can't compare it to a $60,000 camera. I couldn't afford those even if I did prefer them. And I don't think I would find them worth the cost even if I could. Especially since the A7S III outperformed them in low light. Thanks for sharing!
I find it funny people saying "oversaturated" as though you cannot fix this using vectorscopes in Resolve. Hue vs. Sat can fix any of these issues in no time; you can even make a LUT for future footage. Still no need to spend $50,000+ on a camera.
Hi Dave. Yes, I would like to see how the other picture profiles in the A7SIII stack up (No PP, Movie, Cine2/4 and especially HLG3 with Rec709) . I use the A7III and different profiles look different to each other. Thanks!
I followed Dave's advice and bought the Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II, and I think even that camera can produce some amazing, cinematic results. I'm making a short film with that and the Panasonic Lumix G85, and I think they both look great. Not Alexa or Venice great or even Sony a7S III great, but extremely impressive in their own right. Yes, I understand people need to match footage together, but if all of the film industry just got rid of their Alexas and switched to a7S III cameras, I don't think audiences would even notice. This camera definitely deserves Netflix Studios approval. Side-by-side comparisons are only so useful.
Honestly, the a7s iii, in the first comparison was the winner for me. On several occasions, the Arii did not seem to keep focus. It was slight but noticeable "to me" at least. I saw no visible differences in the quality of the footage. The color science is subjective even though I know Sony has issues. I color g and lut out my work to the point where it looks exactly like I want it. I was super surprised. My amazement extended to the second video as well. The only reason I knew the a7s iii was the first camera was because I saw the yellow hue more in the footage because it was pointed out to me in your comments. To be honest I am very very impressed with these head2head battles. The a7s iii more than held its own to me. Just solidified my reason for getting it.
Would love to see some interior shots with blowing windows to really flex that highlight rolloff. I suspect the differences would then be more pronounced in favor of the cine cams.
Thanks for the comparison test. I guessed the wrong camera! The footage from the Sony looked more “organic” than I expected. Kudos to your colour correction too... subtle yet “filmic”! The ultimate takeaway: sony A7Siii is a beast. I am keen to see the Canon C70 and Sony fx6... and then decide my next camera purchase!
I was focusing more on the skin tones and missed the obvious giveaways with the shirt and the magnets casts. And was surprised I preferred the skin tones on the Sony.
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I’d love to see a Venice comparison to the siii using the same lenses/settings and whatnot.
@@RiceCubeTech You don't understand color grading.
This if anything tells you lighting and lensing is more important
Absolutely. Those Zeiss Supreme lenses were AMAZINGGGGG
YES. THANK YOU.
@Mark Vasquez it indeed slaps, i'm getting a restraining order
So true! And that clouds do help a lot too 🤣
This is the truth.
The auto focus gave it away maybe but I didn't notice the magenta until it was pointed out tbh
Same
I actually thought that his shirt was that color & that left seemed dull
I’m not getting magenta here. I’m wondering if he’s mixing in some old color science somewhere
Crazy how good the A7SIII is when stacked up to these beasts. Needs a little more work in the color grade compared to the other two but its so minimal. Cameras have come so far in the last few years
Absolutely. And based on Caleb Pikes findings in his latest video... some of my headache could have been with slog3 in particular. Slog2 seems to have better skintones and we both know the standard creative style is amazing. Stoked to try ProRes raw when it arrives
@@indymogul and also using wheels to fix one hue......bro all you had to do was just use a hue vs hue to avoid that shirt problem smh. lol, but either way thanks for making this video. Not perfect but hey, at least your making good content and getting out there.
The only issue is the additional cost of that color grading costs way more then the difference in price of the cameras in serious commercial production.
@@indymogul Love SLOG2, still grading FS700 / ProRes 12bit in that profile and the more cameras the use the more I keep noticing SLOG2 may be truly future proof.
@@damiendehorn6350 what cost?
The ISO comparison is a bit of a cheat. The real test isn’t with full studio lighting. The real test should be in actual low-light situations where the camera has to do more interpolation. That’s the work.
Great suggestion!
The entire test was bad..
First: Grading each video on his personal preference just mixed up the small nuances that you would usually see. So he should not grade on his personal reference instead should grade both videos the same and maybe just use a LUT.
Second: You instantly now which video was shoot with a professional cinema camera because on that they used a professional cinema-grade prime lens and kn the a7iii they used a normal sony lens (I might even think it was a zoom lens!)
Worst camera comparison ever seen.
Sorry but that s not how it is done professionally...
@@florianherrmann4093 The mere fact that a 3000 usd photo camera can be indistinguishable from 70 000 usd Hollywood movie camera and you need to push them harder to see the difference is nothing short of a miracle.
Sure... but shoot those clips in low light. Not just with high ISO.
Yeah, don't get why they didn't do it in low light.
409,300 Gigawatts!!! I mean ISO!!! Who needs a night-scope. This beast will let a blind man find his way out of a black hole!
you're wrong, not so great in real life like on the paper
I wish it was a sunny day so we could see DR differences
Good point. Same here... but unfortunately the only days we had the cameras... the fires were really bad. You can see how brown/orange everything is from the fires here in LA
If you pay attention to the stabilization, it's "easy" to see what was shot on the A7siii or the Alexa/Venice.
This is saying that the a7siii is holding up quite nicely if you end up watching it on youtube anyway~
Personally, I was looking at the contrast, you see enough of these comparisons and I've found that the Alexa footage is always slightly lower contrast than whatever it's put up against wether that be a Sony camera or a Red camera. I wasn't sure I was going to get the Venice comparison right but I felt like there was something less harsh about the skin textures on one vs the other and I ended up calling that one correctly as well.
I'm a bit dubious about this video. Seems promotional. Specially with the cam coming out this week. The camera 2 footage is just so clearly made to look better.
Comparing cameras outside on an overcast day is pointless. I wanted to see how it handled highlights and low light, not the most minimal bs color shift
The A7sIII wins in low light over any Cinema Camera, you can shoot with the moon as your only light source... The ARRI has +2 stops of dynamic range than any other camera so you have a little better highlight rolloff.
It's pretty difficult to immediately spot which camera was which, however looking at the colour tones made it fairly clear.
1: In an attempt to correct the magenta - the skin is a sickly green from the a7SIII
2: The Alexa colour science's classic blueish-green sky is easily distinguishable from the magenta/grey on the a7SIII
3: When correcting the magenta, everything in the scene looks duller on the a7SIII than on the Venice
Yup.
i thought the alexa image was sony alpha because the skin was more red. Could have left the red in skintones. But maybe my monitor is just ass
Whenever I see comparisons with Arri vs other cameras, I'm always surprised by how the skintones look better exposed on the Arri. I don't get how, because it's not like they're always brighter or darker, just always *better*, whatever difference is needed for the situation.
Yes
the word you are looking for is "bias". It is in your head.
@@matthewphillips5483 Ya actually we all have some bias and I think that is the reason why people love arri as it seems more true to real life in for of colour reproduction, relative luminescence level between different scenes and dynamic range which is closest to human eye as compared to any other camera.
@@matthewphillips5483 Shoots with an a6000 and tells people that it's just bias that makes them think the Alexa image is better.
Agreed, it does phenomenal in all situations. A true cinema camera. A7siii looks like shit in comparison.
When you have to pixel peep to tell the difference between your camera and an Alexa, I think you're probably good image quality wise
My two cents, if I may..
For a true comparison these would help:
-Hard sunlight, mixed light, studio lighting set ups. (I saw your comment that it was grey and there was smoke from the forest fires!)
-Raw vs Raw - it's pointless comparing Raw vs compressed footage.
-Shoot on a tripod
-Try doing anything with the footage in After Effects. See if it holds up.
-Greenscreen keying easy or hard.
Hope this helps! Cheers
Wow! So glad I jumped on the Sony A7s III 2 months ago, just need it to ship. Yeah, two months ago. Did I mention two months ago? Ummm...going to go get some cheese for my whine. 🤦♂️
Haha! Kevin! Thank you for your comment! You will be seeing your camera soon Im sure!
Shipped this morning if you ordered quickly enough from B and H
@@jasonnowwhat5041 I ordered quickly, just think not quickly enough. Ya snooze, ya lose rule in play. :)
@@BasicFilmmaker Got one of mine yesterday. My second is listed as backordered. Purchased local dealer.
Wait until you see that big beautiful unbelievable EVF. Yes the AF is great, but that EVF makes manual focus so fun and easy that it's hard not to MF that MF.
Jason Now What yup! Mine shipped this morning too 😇
Camera Assistant here to poop the party.
There is no much point in comparing basic 709 images. Beyond an image quality you can almost make everything look good in post (if there is no problem in the image like bad exp. or clipping -where more DR can help for example), you can show the differences more with "extreme" like non-diffused daylight scenes, night and dusk shots, and EVEN THEN you have to show how far can we take the image in post, because NO ONE RENTS A 60K CAM TO JUST PASTE A 709 ON IT.
These cams have so much more in them than just the image quality, and for me image quality matters the least when on set (until something is off with the cam, then it is my job to solve it). Arri manages to keep the camera crew, the scrip, the DIT and the wrangler in mind when designing their cameras interface and build, these are little things, like the always on info for the scripts screen, but Sony keeps f ing up these all the time (havent used the Venice, I heard good feedback on that camera, but the FX9 and the FS7 are piles of ... on set), and the A7SIII completely lacks of these features, so this is why we preffer Arris over anything else, not the image quality.
(I know you did mention some of these I just started writing in the beginning of the video)
"...you can get a fully rigged out cinema machine using something like the A7SIII..." as I stated above, these cameras are much more than just the image quality, so no, you cant get a fully rigged out cinema machine out from the A7SIII, however, the image quality is getting up there!
The video made the impression when amateur phone reviewers compares a phone to their budget MILC or DSLR and say that it is on the same level or even the phone has a better camera while clearly they just cant use the camer. No I dont say you cant use these cameras, the video just felt like that on the next level: instead phone to MILC it is MILC to cinema.
Anyway, looks like a fun video, just not for me. I wanted this to be constructive criticism not a rant, I hope I have succeded.
And I like your work so keep up!
It's done for people that are looking for the A7S3, but even than it's a weird review - both the ISO test and the image. No real low light test and dynamic range, hugely different lenses.
Weird even for an amature.
Yes! I wrote something similar under “Damon Warron’s” post. It s just the worst camera comparison I have ever seen..
ok ok.. point taken. thank you for the insight btw. my guess is that the video is mostly aimed at amateurs or 'enthusiast' cinematographers (even if he glances over the idea for professionals to have this as a 2nd or 3rd camera), who are not yet fully into the 'real deal' if that makes sense. they have less demands and expect less from gear, and specifically want a good image to begin with : P I know this because I am really in love with photography and cinematography but far far from being pro. Therefore I am immensely impressed by the video quality footage, and some shots almost fooled me. But yea ok it's obviously 60k vs 3k. Obviously there is more to it, I think this has to be clear, and I doubt the guys making the video are unaware of it.
I don't agree! lot of people in cinema industry are emotional about there choice . One of the least reliable camera is the RED but it's has a strong followers. Sony has a long tradition in Live tv broadcast industry and known for their reliability.
Actually what gives each comparison away easily is autofocus - when one of the cameras in A or B looses focus and the other doesn't then thats how I could tell its the A7SIII as the A7 has rock solid focus!
Also one camera was higher than the other so that alone told me which one was the A7Siii as it was the one with more image above the frame of the other camera.
And stabilization.
Sony Fs 7 - I've got rly cool features, and I'm not that expensive
Sony a7S - Hold my beer
LOL! The a7s3 has seriously gotten so amazing now. This wasn't even testing the RAW out of the HDMI either. Would look even better with that
Sounds like you should save your pennies and just buy a second A7SIII over an FX9, lol.
Not to mention we haven’t even tried ProRes raw yet! Seriously amazing stuff here.
4.2.2 remain
No man definitly not.
The digital sharpening in A7siii is to strong. The roll-off smoothness in the skin is also not even FX9 level.-
Cloudio cool. Buying another a7siii
@@ThisIsTechToday That feeling when you can't take an objective fact about digital sharpening and flex with a comment: 'Buying another a7siii'
Cope much?
This is great! Such an exciting time... Where skills are more important than the gear. The a7siii can certainly hold its own!
Absolutely!
The biggest take away I get from this video is that the film making world is more open to indie film makers thanks to the high tech in the "pro-sumer" cameras out there. These are the best of times for film makers of all budget levels. Thanks, Indy Mogul.
wow... I found for about 50% of the shots I preferred the a7siii and then the other.. the shot would make way more difference than the camera at this point (at least for the first two tests).. and obviously the lens
Hey, I saw myself in this video!
Hey Dave!
Lol yup! Thats where we met!
Dave Dugdale hey Dave you’ve been instrumental to the fame of the A7s. You should really be a Sony rep for this camera line. Because I only understood the true power of that camera after you shot your low lite fishing ting😂 . And even Sony themselves didn’t have anything to Mach your creativity, as a result they are still using your footage 3 gen after . We all know that P.B shot the now I see , parts but only the original part 1 expose the true potential of that camera. But your approach and method ( shoot and change iso ) was key into the success of this camera. So I’m sure if Sony is listening that they should include you they pre-production program. ( and they should also drop you a couple of coins for the effort 😄🤣) I’m sure everyone will agree that DAVE’s methods was informative and technical at the same time, but everyone else’s just boom here is the result. ( well how did you get there ? What did you use?😨🤭)
Dave! where have you been? are you still using magic lantern? :-)
@@LonzosStudios 😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Holy moly, the Alexa reveal was a huge surprise. 2020 still has some tricks up it’s sleeve....
Wow! So glad you were impressed! I worked really hard on the color grade on this
Indy Mogul It definitely shows. Many of my favorite movies of the last decade were shot on Alexa and I kept thinking the A7S III footage was the Alexa. Well done!
yes, it's a real website: www.tedsimfanpage.com/
Canon r6
I can’t believe I thought the a7s3 image looked better than the Alexa. It had a lower depth of field. Would love to see you do a comparison with the Panasonic s5 which has better colour science
I am curious why the Panasonic S1H is left out of every test against full frame cinema cameras. It shoots Prores Raw and now one can change white balance. Please do a comparison pls
I wonder if the magenta shift is just the internal codecs? Waiting to see some 16bit linear RAW external to 12bit log RAW on Ninja V examples focusing on color :-)
LoL! This is awesome
Completely pointless to compare cameras with different lenses, they influence the color palette significantly..
Correct, however, the ISO tests were done using the same lens! Eye opening!!
pointless is to compare anything to Alexa LF in my opinion
They do, but I believe the differences seen still are true to the cameras
Yes! I wrote something similar under “Damon Warron’s” post! Worst camera comparison ever seen.
Nice! I'll be making a LUT to match my ARRI Amira as soon as I can get my hands on my A7siii! Look forward to getting it.
Yes please! More A7SIII content!! Great vid, thanks!!
The last time I was this early this show had the original host.
thank you?... haha!
@@indymogul Early enough to get a reply ;)
7:40 "our aperture settings weren't exactly the same"
lol understatement of the week. Using two VERY different lenses makes it nottt a particularly even comparison
yea this was dumb comparing with different lenses lol wtf
not really
@@Jsfilmz I think the point of the comparison is using a consumer camera with a consumer lens versus a cinema camera with a cinema lens. How many people are going to adapt a $20,000 lens to their Sony Alpha?
@@katlis They could at least have matched focal lenght and fstop
I agree, but the differences were not obscured, so doesn't matter very much. The color of the lens elements did almost certainly impact the tests
Man this is probably one of the biggest and newest comparison so far!!!!
VERY excited to upgrade to the A7SIII
I guess what camera you use wont really matter too much moving forward. Love this comparison!
This was amazing! I’m glad you’re the new host, Dave!
hmm. It appears that green was introduced when correcting the A7Siii. I could tell instantly which was which, focus and textures and stability aside just due to whatever happened with the color. To be frank the siii is killer, i will be getting one...but I really wasn't the biggest fan of any of the colors or shots from these comparisons of any of the cameras lol....no matter still love y'all! and THANKS for the peek
Thanks for the comment!
This is nice and all, but RUclips compression makes it difficult to judge.
Exactly... so it really doesn’t matter what you use eh
Yup, especially when we dropped the audio to our 12-bit ATOMOS and linear 16-bit NL recorder, it was pushable beyond our 2019 C500 and the footage from rented F35 and S35 ARRI's that we have. And was a lot less problematic in terms of overheating than our RED and no noise to boot!
It is just a pure pleasure to work with these amazing little powerhouse mirrorless cams; and even the 10-bit ProRes makes several of our moderately expensive cams fairly irrelevant. We had to return the eval, but ordered 4 A7SIII's, a bunch of parfocal and vintage cine and stilld glass and after selling the other Canons, two BM 4K Production EF's, a RED and related gear, we liberated a lot of money. And we went 100% 10Gbit backbone to RAID 60's, added DANTE AV and allocated budget for a VFX editor and new bay. When you add to the fact that we will likely be saving a few people's backs, the initial week we spent coming up with custom LUT's and scripts makes the new SONY a no-brainer for us. THANK YOU SONY!
I’m loving the vibe on the channel. Great job Dave!
Thanks buddy!
I love Arri colors so much then on the first one I prefered and was confident number 2 was the Arri.
No way it was was the A7s3. I first didn't believe it.
XD
Lol me too. I was like “wait wtf”.
Obviously there's personal preference but when viewing on a calibrated monitor the Alexa in that comparison almost always has more natural looking colours. A lot of green where there shouldn't be on the Sony, but that may also be his grade.
Another awesome video. This is cool content.
When the image is so close, that 60k vs $3500 is a no-brainer. Again, I realize RUclips compression, but damn!!! Sony all day!!
would really like to see more comparison between the Alexa LF and A7III.. especially during a sunny day and also an example where you show pushing the colors. Really appreciate this video!
I like the a7SIII in both cases. The test versus the Venice was a easier because it feels the IBIS was a giveaway. Thanks for the comparison.
Awesome comparisons. I would have liked to have seen some shots with the cameras locked down though. Thanks for the great video!
Sorry about that! We had very limited time and handheld was much easier than lugging around the 100lbs tripod lol
Indy Mogul Completely understandable. I still really appreciate all the effort put into the video!
Great video, funny tones, I dug it. Well done!
Yesterday I have watched a Claude Lelouch movie (La Vertu des impondérables), all made with an iPhone…
And it is fantastic!!
Dave is killing it as the new host!
There has been a dramatic shift in the marginal difference between consumer and pro cameras in the last decade. I would argue that it is impossible for the average person to be able to distinguish between a Red vs. Arri Alexa vs. Sony A7S III. I’d actually even be surprised if pros could tell them apart if there was no footage to compare against. I’d love to see you guys do a challenge in which you play 10 minutes of footage on 10 different cameras on 10 different days all using the same lens and guess what camera is being used (same or similar grading in post, obviously). I bet you would get maybe half or fewer correct.
Hi, guys! )
Cool comparison! Thank you)
Blue things is more blue in the Sony a7s3. Grey things looks with margenta.
Ari more realistic skin tone.
The A7S3 is a cool camera, but the blue and margenta shades immediately make it stand out from other cameras.
I want to buy a Sony a7s3, but the problem with the shades stops me ...
I WAS CONVINCED THAT SONY FOOTAGE WAS THE ARRI!! THAT'S INSANE!
Sick bro 🔥
I've always been a fan of your style, so keep it up! And the squarespace promo was perfect, not the usual dry message, great stuff! :)
Haha thanks! So glad you enjoyed it. Trying to make those as fun as possible.
This is the best quality, practical and entertaining video on the A7S3 by far.
I would love to see: the same team, the same assignment, 3 different cameras.
Great idea!
but same lenses
Yeah, like with the xt4!
Been waiting on this Dave! Thanks for all the hard work and time you put into this!
Duuuude that square space ad was gold 😂 👌🏼
Lol thanks!
Just looked at the focusing and was able to tell which was which between the a7s3 and arri.
The comparison between the two sonys were much more difficult.
After you pointed out the magenta hue shift in the first test it was easy to spot the A7siii footage in the second test.
Thanks for your great comparison video.
Both times I liked the A7Siii better when watching the footage. The focus and skin tones make the shots look so good in my opinion.
mounting the A7S3 on top was a giveaway in the comparison but thanks for it anyway !
Thanks for watching and for leaving a comment! Really appreciate it
Imagine going back to 2012 and tell your younger self that you crank your mirrorless camera to half a million in low light situations.
I know it's crazy! That being said you gotta remember that the A7s (Mark 1)was announced in 2013 so it's not that far off.
I guessed both correctly. Conclusion? It has always been about colour science. Alexa Mini & Venice are beautiful. I would love you compare the colour science of Fuji XT3/4 to Alexa and Venice. For me, colour science is number one for any cinematic filming.
12bit @ 4444 is the piece that is hard to lose from the Alexa for me, but the Sony camera in the right situations looks great! Something to say about versatility versus portability, and that the gap is getting smaller. The Alexa is a weapon, plain and simple- it is such a versatile camera and can be stretched so far on the day and in the grade. But these smaller cameras are making something really impressive!
Still gotta hone your skills to make an image great, but the right tools are always a great place to start. Preaching to myself 😌
I chose A7SIII both times because I liked the colors and focus (as seen in the 2nd test with the venice).
Great review, thanks!
That ISO test result is mindblowing 😱
Great video!! 🔥
Yes we need full review of the A7s iii videos and how to color grade it and also the photography aspect and up to what is it good 😊
Jesus the production behind this video is crazy, hoping my vids will reach their soon!
love this video dude
Amazing video, and it is remarkable that A7sIII is even comparable to the Arri in some comparisons. However, one must emphasize that the difference is still big. Like in the ISO Test, you can clearly see how the A7SIII was clipping the pink light, while the venice and the ARRI were not. This lead gets bigger and bigger with mixed lighting situations, heavy color grades, etc.
at the same time, it’s impossible to not recognize the absolutely obliteration of the cinema cameras in the iso test
well the highlights on the skin ( the white shiny highlights) are the same as in the venice shot. Plus the iso test is about noise. WHat you are reffereing to is dynamic range. which the other cameras may be better at, and may be because they are captured raw and of course i believe the zeiss lense 0n venice is better than gmaster on the a7siii
So I got my A7S III last week. I'm in a room with a 30 watt bulb (actually a 3 W LED behind a lamp shade - providing equivalent illumination of a 30 W bulb). It's 5 AM in the morning - pitch dark outside - no exterior light. It's lighting a desk and I'm exposed properly for S-LOG3 (with +1.7 overexposure) and shooting I'm at F5.6 (yah 5.6) at ISO 12800. Across the room 15 feet away I am exposing a shelf perfectly good @ F2.8 to 3.2 with S-LOG3 exposure compensation. WTF ! Low light mega beast - uh ya - geez !
thanksfor showing us a real world comparison/usecase.. and that squarespace ad on point as always :v
I honestly thought camera 2 Was the Alexa due to the red skintones on Camera 1. I prefered the look of the Sony surprsingly.
I actually like the a7siii more than the arri. The way it handled the midtone contrast looked more cinematic. 2:20
I get that this is mainly a clickbait video but this is a very underwhelming “comparison” video. Should set up a scene with highlights and deep shadows, multiple colors and show how each camera handles it. With the same lens on all 3.
5:38 - "Hey indie filmmakers my name is Ted and welcome to the Indy Mogul Podcast episode 58."
2 years after this video was uploaded I notice that it’s Internal recording and not in PRORESRAW where the magenta green shifting desapeare and gets a real 12bit LOG RAW vs 12bit ARRI CLOG RAW and get it’s true colorcience potencial. And it’s PP11 with S-Cinetone it’s here too, so it get a better results.
With Sony VG-C3EM Vertical Grip, the battery never be an issue. I noticed even the production camera they change battery a lot in a scene. For the Color depth and even the quality of image , the A7S iii can go up to 16bit Raw over 600MBits for a 4K resolution. I just personally thought the A7S iii the much more advanced camera even compare to the ARRI and Red. The canon new cinema camera C70 getting smaller size too. I just think there are too much old fastion rule people love to hold . The good footage means everything, if the way we can make that shot can get much eaiser and effective, the Sony is doing the right thing.
The A7S uses the VG-C4EM grip 🤟🏻
Lol
It was way too easy to guess. In first comparison there was color shift (not only sony, but alexa also has color misrepresentation but in its own way), and in both cases there was obvious difference in focusing and stabilization. a7s3 wins in focusing and stabilization, and color actually can be corrected, not perfectly, but to the point where you cannot notice it at all. So for me it looks like a7s3 not just not loses, but wins.
No camera is going to be 100% perfect, but the Alexa image looks much more natural on a calibrated monitor than the Sony one does. On top of that you don't use things like IBIS or autofocus on a camera like the Alexa, you use a Steadycam or Trinity for stabilization and a 1st AC for pulling focus.
Nice video! I was able to guess the Arri and Venice on both tests with a high degree of confidence. Since dynamic range wasn't an issue, the giveaway was the color science, especially how they reacted to artificial lighting. The A7S3 had a much stronger yellow cast any time artificial lights came into play. See 1:50, 2:31, 2:51. You see the same issues in the low light test; the purple kicker light looks super electric on the A7S3.
Next, skin tones. At 5:32, 5:40, the Venice has a much nicer skin tone whereas the A7S3 he has a strong yellow cast on his right cheek. Same at 6:34. In the low light test, his skin looks anemic in the A7S3.
Lastly color palette. The A7S3 has more electric saturated "video" colors, whereas the Arri and Sony have a more "filmic" color palette. You can really see it in the yellows, blues, and greens. (2:09, 2:48 for how blues compare, 5:47, 6:57 for how yellows & greens compare).
Great video! 📸
I noticed the slightly oversaturated yellows and greens on the A7S III immediately. I was right in guessing the camera both times because of that. Kinda sucks since I just bought the A7S III myself and I was really hoping that they fixed that. But I guess you're right in saying that you can't compare it to a $60,000 camera. I couldn't afford those even if I did prefer them. And I don't think I would find them worth the cost even if I could. Especially since the A7S III outperformed them in low light. Thanks for sharing!
I find it funny people saying "oversaturated" as though you cannot fix this using vectorscopes in Resolve. Hue vs. Sat can fix any of these issues in no time; you can even make a LUT for future footage. Still no need to spend $50,000+ on a camera.
Honestly, I so don't care about the cameras but I'm so enjoying Dave's editing and vibes!
Hi Dave. Yes, I would like to see how the other picture profiles in the A7SIII stack up (No PP, Movie, Cine2/4 and especially HLG3 with Rec709) . I use the A7III and different profiles look different to each other. Thanks!
Thanks for a great review. I look forward to a comparison of the A7 SIII with the new Canon EOS C70!
How I can make light up set up.The way you did in your background.
I'd love to see a similar video with the Z Cam F6!
I like it that you pair A7S3 with Zeiss supreme lenses! A lens with a camera attached to it
I cant get over the rolling shutter look. It makes the a7s3 image look so video.
I followed Dave's advice and bought the Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II, and I think even that camera can produce some amazing, cinematic results. I'm making a short film with that and the Panasonic Lumix G85, and I think they both look great. Not Alexa or Venice great or even Sony a7S III great, but extremely impressive in their own right.
Yes, I understand people need to match footage together, but if all of the film industry just got rid of their Alexas and switched to a7S III cameras, I don't think audiences would even notice. This camera definitely deserves Netflix Studios approval. Side-by-side comparisons are only so useful.
Honestly, the a7s iii, in the first comparison was the winner for me. On several occasions, the Arii did not seem to keep focus. It was slight but noticeable "to me" at least. I saw no visible differences in the quality of the footage. The color science is subjective even though I know Sony has issues. I color g and lut out my work to the point where it looks exactly like I want it. I was super surprised.
My amazement extended to the second video as well. The only reason I knew the a7s iii was the first camera was because I saw the yellow hue more in the footage because it was pointed out to me in your comments. To be honest I am very very impressed with these head2head battles. The a7s iii more than held its own to me. Just solidified my reason for getting it.
Would love to see some interior shots with blowing windows to really flex that highlight rolloff. I suspect the differences would then be more pronounced in favor of the cine cams.
Holy shit, he fact that you couldn't see obvious differences is just astounding. 🙌🏼👏🏼
Amazing, insightful! Please post more comparisons of other cameras in the A7III class vs the Hollywood Beasts. Thanks Again!
Indy mogul is just like "Donut Media" but for cameras HAHA
Very true!
Thanks for the comparison test. I guessed the wrong camera! The footage from the Sony looked more “organic” than I expected. Kudos to your colour correction too... subtle yet “filmic”! The ultimate takeaway: sony A7Siii is a beast. I am keen to see the Canon C70 and Sony fx6... and then decide my next camera purchase!
I was focusing more on the skin tones and missed the obvious giveaways with the shirt and the magnets casts. And was surprised I preferred the skin tones on the Sony.
I literally picked the A7s iii
So did I on both tests...
As opposed to...figuratively picking the A7s iii?