great video as usualy. dont be hard on yourself. . its great to see the limitations and real life complications of a product like this. the manufacturer always shows the easiest install posible where everything works perfect. that rarely happens in reality
Hi Alastair, I am fitting - see my previous comment - this system using 2 x 838 x 1981 embossed doors (b and q) and please pass my concerns on. When I tried to fit the runners/guides to the top and bottom of the doors using the given locations I could not get a solid fix. The locations of the screws went into the hollow insides of the door. I used the old “dowels into the top and bottom of the doors”. The doors have mdf infills not even the cheap Polish pine! Keep up the good work. Thanks again John
Good luck with those doors! I have no connection with the makers of this mechanism so I don’t have anyone to pass this on to. Perhaps if I had been smarter I would have worked out some kind of deal!
Hi - great input. Many thanks for your time. Eight mm is tight but I am ‘lucky’ as I am fitting the ‘linings’ from scratch. You appear to have done everything by the book, and learned and then passed on your findings. Well done - not being patronising.
@@Alastair_Freebird Had the doors/track fitted for about 10 months! They are dire. Tricky fitting, but the ‘movement’ has been unacceptable. Everything fitted exactly, screws sent home diligently, and slamming sides eased open and closed. Useless. Take care.
It's superb that you have shown the issues encountered. I am about to install sliding doors and needed a bottom rolling gear system. (Top hanging rollers would entail the addition of noggins between the joints in the loft to support the weight of the top hanging doors. This in turn means lifting the loft chipboard flooring first!) Now I appreciate the issues installing this system it will still be quicker, easier and probably better than hours of preparation work in the loft. Great video - thank you.
These kind of videos are invaluable. Great information. Also the fact you can show the pros n cons of different products out there . You seem to be putting it off as a disappointing video it's every bit as good as the rest!!
can you sit the wheel in first and then slide the plastic u shape up to the top rail and then fasten the screw to tighten, i noticed you said you have you put the top it first which seems strange as thats the part with the adjustment which you would think you would adjust after its sat in the bottom first, i need a sliding set which is easy to take in and out and this looks the easiest atleast it did till i watched this :p
You’ve got me thinking now, I know what you are saying makes sense and I’m sure I would have been aware of this when I fitted these (I haven’t fitted many since so I don’t remember well). Did I not sit the wheels in first in this video?
hi there poss a silly question coming up, but I was wondering if they work ok for 15mm doors - to save weight for the user (not so able bodied you see), what do you think?
I think you really need to watch the other video from this project about bending doors!! I would not do a project like this again without planning to use the Planofit door straighteners from the start
@@Alastair_Freebird thank you!! yep I was either considering using oak frame on plywood (which would be painted ) or what you have just mentioned. Some people instantly think because the door is "hanging" it will not bend/sag . I bet when you priced it up you wished you had charged more, usual case when you do something slightly new. ( by the way not saying you wished ,,,just a thought)
Chris Moxon it’s the Zhiyun Smooth Q for holding a camera phone. It’s great, good battery life, comes with a nice protective case, I’d definitely recommend it.
Are these the same as the Saheco variety? Saheco drawing suggest you can rebate the rollers to make the assembly shallower. Any reason you couldn’t do this with the Ares?
I just googled saheco and found the sf-25 system which does look pretty much identical yes. Yes I’m sure you could recess the hardware into the back of the door so long as you are still left with enough board thickness for the screws to hold into (at least 16mm I think), which I couldn’t have done with these doors
Good bit of problem solving! If you move into the bigger workshop, would you likely build something like this in full before fitting to minimise surprises like you encountered here? Everywhere I've worked in the past has done that, but most people that I watch on RUclips etc, like yourself, don't seem to! I'm always super impressed at ur ability to do this!
Andrew Cain interesting point. I used to test assembly everything in the workshop first, but I do it less now. I think time and experience gives you more confidence that you can get it right on site. I still find the profit margins so tight that to spend even more time building and dismantling something in the workshop seems unaffordable. the flipside is that the risk of mistakes could prove more costly. It depends on the job really.
Exactly my experience with these runners. They're solid looking and smooth sliding action once fitted. But by God why do I have to waste hours of my time drilling holes in the guide rails? On the 3m long wardrobe there's 12m of holes to be drilled! And chamfered! Outrageous! But the fitting method is even more unsatisfactory. I got mine from Screwfix didn't even realise there were 3m guides available but this saved me so much hassle. I was able to install 1.8m sections, slide all my 4 doors in and only then install the outstanding 1.2m guides. But this is not ideal at all IMO. I'll be looking elsewhere before I use those runners again. More suitable for DIY projects I think.
@@Alastair_Freebird yes i cant see how the runners are going to know if the doors are 2m tall or 2.3m 🤣 Its odd. Ill try them out i think Thanks james (Coulsdon carpentry)
Thanks for the video and advice, much appreciated, I do have a couple of questions as a keen DIYer I have just built my own fitted wardrobes and now want to install sliding doors in the same fashion as you i.e. external to the carcass. I have purchased the Ares2 and wondered 1) how do ensure that the top an bottom tracks are in alignment with each other? 2) I'm going to make my own doors, what thickness would you recommend? I see most prebuilt sliding doors are around 27mm. Ta!
Hi a laser level helps, or just follow the lines up the side frame strip with a long spirit level. Sliding doors are very prone to bending so rigid and thicker is probably best. If I do sliding doors with mdf boards these days I would fit ‘Planofit door straightening bars’ (search for that and you will find my video about them) but usually I steer customers towards aluminium framed sliding doors like the Volante system from ECF, or the sliders supplied by Toffs sliding doors
@@Alastair_Freebird Thanks for the prompt reply and heads up on MDF bowing. MDF is what I had in mind but was wondering if Structural Plywood would be better? There's hardly any difference in the price these days as MDF has got so expensive.
@@Glentp75 I think ply would have more rigidity. But it can also be prone to distortion. An important thing is to make sure the construction is balanced - same both sides.
jason laverty hmm well the doors seem nice don’t they, but they soon became the bane of my life! Yes we made them. The construction method (which I had reservations about but was the customer’s preference based on doors elsewhere in the house) was inherently prone to bowing, which I then had to correct as shown here: ruclips.net/video/fItFYnl9_1I/видео.html
Hi. Alastair. Love your vids. Learning so much. So a massive thank you for your work and your candour. I know this one was about the runners, but, loved the look of the doors. Were these solid oak panels or veneered MDF? SandyMillerCarpentry
Hi Sandy they were 15mm veneered mdf with solid oak strips framing then and solid oak horizontal strips applied and I had a nightmare with them bending and had to retrofit Plano fit door straighteners to the back of them!
Hi Alistair, great video and will be a great help to me when I fit these (it's on the agenda!). What clearance did you need between each door to allow them to pass each other unhindered with the top and bottom guides in place? Cheers
Joe Morris hi Joe I don’t exactly remember but I think it could be something like 15mm. Check out the technical drawings here: www.rothley.com/shop/sliding-door-systems/wardrobe-door-systems/ares2-kit-for-2-or-3-doors/
@@Alastair_Freebird thanks very much for the reply, much appreciated! Technical drawings don't have the dimensions of the guides themselves, but I'll figure it out. It's only because I've left myself only a 60mm frame to fit the doors into so I need a few mm clearance from the face of the shelving, and clearance between doors. I think the max thickness of door will have to be about 18mm in this case!
@@Alastair_Freebird Hi Alastair, thanks for the helpful video. I'm currently looking for suitable runners for a wardrobe I'm planning and have to say this has put me off slightly using these particular ones, although they are one of the few cheaper options for heavy doors. I'm going to use 18mm mock shaker doors with 9mm stlies and rails glued to the front and a mirror glued with adhesive on the central panel. Do you think glueing these parts, especially the mirror will cause the MDF to warp? last thing you would want the door flexing with the mirror stuck in place. 😅
@@-fells- Hi yes I would definitely recommend adding door straightening bars to the back of that type of door construction. I just don't make sliding doors like this any more, I steer customers towards aluminium framed options: www.volanteslidingdoors.co.uk/
@@Alastair_Freebird Thanks for your reply Alastair, much appreciated. I'm steering the customer away from sliding doors altogether. In this case they seem more trouble than they are worth, considering the size of wardrobe they have.
Dave Perris it is quite tricky but I actually decided to use it again for a very minimalist job because it does have a tight clearance and mostly hidden hardware.
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great video as usualy. dont be hard on yourself. .
its great to see the limitations and real life complications of a product like this. the manufacturer always shows the easiest install posible where everything works perfect. that rarely happens in reality
Really good video, someone else's knowledge from installation is always invaluable.
Glad you think so!
Just what i was looking for...ive just ordered the 2 door set and this vid will help me greatly...thanks for the upload 👍
farnyone thanks for letting me know, I’m glad it helped!
Brilliant video. The best mistakes to learn from are other people's, so this video highlights some of the traps I can now endeavor to avoid.
Glad it was helpful!
Hi Alastair, I am fitting - see my previous comment - this system using 2 x 838 x 1981 embossed doors (b and q) and please pass my concerns on.
When I tried to fit the runners/guides to the top and bottom of the doors using the given locations I could not get a solid fix. The locations of the screws went into the hollow insides of the door. I used the old “dowels into the top and bottom of the doors”.
The doors have mdf infills not even the cheap Polish pine!
Keep up the good work.
Thanks again
John
Good luck with those doors! I have no connection with the makers of this mechanism so I don’t have anyone to pass this on to. Perhaps if I had been smarter I would have worked out some kind of deal!
Hi - great input. Many thanks for your time. Eight mm is tight but I am ‘lucky’ as I am fitting the ‘linings’ from scratch. You appear to have done everything by the book, and learned and then passed on your findings. Well done - not being patronising.
Thanks for commenting I’m pleased if the video was helpful
@@Alastair_Freebird Had the doors/track fitted for about 10 months! They are dire. Tricky fitting, but the ‘movement’ has been unacceptable. Everything fitted exactly, screws sent home diligently, and slamming sides eased open and closed. Useless. Take care.
@@johnpayne6196 oh no! I’ve not had any call backs on this mechanism myself but only used it 2 or 3 times
It's superb that you have shown the issues encountered. I am about to install sliding doors and needed a bottom rolling gear system. (Top hanging rollers would entail the addition of noggins between the joints in the loft to support the weight of the top hanging doors. This in turn means lifting the loft chipboard flooring first!) Now I appreciate the issues installing this system it will still be quicker, easier and probably better than hours of preparation work in the loft. Great video - thank you.
Thanks for commenting, I’m glad it helped!
These kind of videos are invaluable. Great information. Also the fact you can show the pros n cons of different products out there . You seem to be putting it off as a disappointing video it's every bit as good as the rest!!
Jack Finnerty good to hear that thanks!
can you sit the wheel in first and then slide the plastic u shape up to the top rail and then fasten the screw to tighten, i noticed you said you have you put the top it first which seems strange as thats the part with the adjustment which you would think you would adjust after its sat in the bottom first, i need a sliding set which is easy to take in and out and this looks the easiest atleast it did till i watched this :p
You’ve got me thinking now, I know what you are saying makes sense and I’m sure I would have been aware of this when I fitted these (I haven’t fitted many since so I don’t remember well). Did I not sit the wheels in first in this video?
As much as we pre plan, with every new product there is a learning curve. The object is to leave yourself options.
hi there poss a silly question coming up, but I was wondering if they work ok for 15mm doors - to save weight for the user (not so able bodied you see), what do you think?
I think you really need to watch the other video from this project about bending doors!! I would not do a project like this again without planning to use the Planofit door straighteners from the start
ruclips.net/video/fItFYnl9_1I/видео.html
@@Alastair_Freebird thank you!! yep I was either considering using oak frame on plywood (which would be painted ) or what you have just mentioned. Some people instantly think because the door is "hanging" it will not bend/sag . I bet when you priced it up you wished you had charged more, usual case when you do something slightly new. ( by the way not saying you wished ,,,just a thought)
Hi again, can I ask you, when u fixed the ceiling frame to the ceiling did you manage to screw it all along to the joists?
I don’t remember but I think I must have done!!
Nice video. Thanks for sharing. May I ask, What gimbal do you use?
Chris Moxon it’s the Zhiyun Smooth Q for holding a camera phone. It’s great, good battery life, comes with a nice protective case, I’d definitely recommend it.
Hi yes very informative video quality work thanks for your insight keep it up👍
Really useful, as always, cheers!
I’m glad you added the last part, as that was about to catch me out too!!
Have you any experience with top hung systems?
Are these the same as the Saheco variety? Saheco drawing suggest you can rebate the rollers to make the assembly shallower. Any reason you couldn’t do this with the Ares?
I just googled saheco and found the sf-25 system which does look pretty much identical yes. Yes I’m sure you could recess the hardware into the back of the door so long as you are still left with enough board thickness for the screws to hold into (at least 16mm I think), which I couldn’t have done with these doors
Very helpful I thought. I thought that this system would be straight forward, but as I’m not a joiner, it may be a challenge too far.
Good bit of problem solving! If you move into the bigger workshop, would you likely build something like this in full before fitting to minimise surprises like you encountered here? Everywhere I've worked in the past has done that, but most people that I watch on RUclips etc, like yourself, don't seem to! I'm always super impressed at ur ability to do this!
Andrew Cain interesting point. I used to test assembly everything in the workshop first, but I do it less now. I think time and experience gives you more confidence that you can get it right on site. I still find the profit margins so tight that to spend even more time building and dismantling something in the workshop seems unaffordable. the flipside is that the risk of mistakes could prove more costly. It depends on the job really.
Hi Alistair, just found your channel and I'm well impressed. Will spend the weekend catching up on your videos
John McCabe great!
Exactly my experience with these runners. They're solid looking and smooth sliding action once fitted. But by God why do I have to waste hours of my time drilling holes in the guide rails? On the 3m long wardrobe there's 12m of holes to be drilled! And chamfered! Outrageous!
But the fitting method is even more unsatisfactory. I got mine from Screwfix didn't even realise there were 3m guides available but this saved me so much hassle. I was able to install 1.8m sections, slide all my 4 doors in and only then install the outstanding 1.2m guides. But this is not ideal at all IMO.
I'll be looking elsewhere before I use those runners again. More suitable for DIY projects I think.
First Name I’m glad it’s not just me!
ps the doors you made are very very nice!!!!
Great video, thank you. Really appreciated
I'm glad you liked it, thanks for commenting!
Can you use these on a standard internal doors
No I don’t think they would cope well with the thickness
Do these have a way of soft-closing?
No unfortunately this system doesn’t have that option
Great tour of reality versus the sales pitch!
Great vid, perfect insight 👌...Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you
You're welcome
Hello alistair. The instructions say max door height of 2040. Is there any reason it won’t work with higher doors?
That is a strangely specific number isn’t it, I’m not sure why to be honest!
@@Alastair_Freebird yes i cant see how the runners are going to know if the doors are 2m tall or 2.3m 🤣
Its odd. Ill try them out i think
Thanks james (Coulsdon carpentry)
Thanks for the video and advice, much appreciated, I do have a couple of questions as a keen DIYer I have just built my own fitted wardrobes and now want to install sliding doors in the same fashion as you i.e. external to the carcass. I have purchased the Ares2 and wondered 1) how do ensure that the top an bottom tracks are in alignment with each other? 2) I'm going to make my own doors, what thickness would you recommend? I see most prebuilt sliding doors are around 27mm. Ta!
Hi a laser level helps, or just follow the lines up the side frame strip with a long spirit level. Sliding doors are very prone to bending so rigid and thicker is probably best. If I do sliding doors with mdf boards these days I would fit ‘Planofit door straightening bars’ (search for that and you will find my video about them) but usually I steer customers towards aluminium framed sliding doors like the Volante system from ECF, or the sliders supplied by Toffs sliding doors
@@Alastair_Freebird Thanks for the prompt reply and heads up on MDF bowing. MDF is what I had in mind but was wondering if Structural Plywood would be better? There's hardly any difference in the price these days as MDF has got so expensive.
@@Glentp75 I think ply would have more rigidity. But it can also be prone to distortion. An important thing is to make sure the construction is balanced - same both sides.
Hi very nice job and good info looking at doing a similar job,like the doors very much, where did you get them, thanks
We made the doors. They bent so don't copy them!
ruclips.net/video/fItFYnl9_1I/видео.html
Just about to install these tracks, really helpful review thanks.
Great thanks for letting me know it's nice to hear!
Very nice doors, are they off the shelf or made by your good self?
Very helpful explanation of the fittings, thanks.
jason laverty hmm well the doors seem nice don’t they, but they soon became the bane of my life! Yes we made them. The construction method (which I had reservations about but was the customer’s preference based on doors elsewhere in the house) was inherently prone to bowing, which I then had to correct as shown here: ruclips.net/video/fItFYnl9_1I/видео.html
Hi. Alastair. Love your vids. Learning so much. So a massive thank you for your work and your candour.
I know this one was about the runners, but, loved the look of the doors.
Were these solid oak panels or veneered MDF?
SandyMillerCarpentry
Hi Sandy they were 15mm veneered mdf with solid oak strips framing then and solid oak horizontal strips applied and I had a nightmare with them bending and had to retrofit Plano fit door straighteners to the back of them!
ruclips.net/video/fItFYnl9_1I/видео.html
thanks for this video - really informative- about to fit the sliding doors with same system.
You’re welcome, thanks for commenting!
Hi Alistair, Are you still favouring this brand for heavy sliding doors?
Tim Bywater-Owens I am about to use them again on some slab sliding doors! Economical price makes up for the fitting downsides
Hi Alistair, great video and will be a great help to me when I fit these (it's on the agenda!). What clearance did you need between each door to allow them to pass each other unhindered with the top and bottom guides in place? Cheers
Joe Morris hi Joe I don’t exactly remember but I think it could be something like 15mm. Check out the technical drawings here: www.rothley.com/shop/sliding-door-systems/wardrobe-door-systems/ares2-kit-for-2-or-3-doors/
@@Alastair_Freebird thanks very much for the reply, much appreciated! Technical drawings don't have the dimensions of the guides themselves, but I'll figure it out. It's only because I've left myself only a 60mm frame to fit the doors into so I need a few mm clearance from the face of the shelving, and clearance between doors. I think the max thickness of door will have to be about 18mm in this case!
Excellent video i m in same dilemma
Did you sort it out ok?
hi there, that mirrored door - is that actually glass you have used there or a substitute ? thanks in advance
Christopher Claudio Skierka hi yes it is mirror glass stuck on with mirror adhesive
@@Alastair_Freebird Hi Alastair, thanks for the helpful video. I'm currently looking for suitable runners for a wardrobe I'm planning and have to say this has put me off slightly using these particular ones, although they are one of the few cheaper options for heavy doors. I'm going to use 18mm mock shaker doors with 9mm stlies and rails glued to the front and a mirror glued with adhesive on the central panel. Do you think glueing these parts, especially the mirror will cause the MDF to warp? last thing you would want the door flexing with the mirror stuck in place. 😅
@@-fells- Hi yes I would definitely recommend adding door straightening bars to the back of that type of door construction. I just don't make sliding doors like this any more, I steer customers towards aluminium framed options: www.volanteslidingdoors.co.uk/
@@Alastair_Freebird Thanks for your reply Alastair, much appreciated. I'm steering the customer away from sliding doors altogether. In this case they seem more trouble than they are worth, considering the size of wardrobe they have.
Thanks for taking the time to share!
You’re welcome I appreciate you commenting
The doors look good but the tracking system sounds like a nightmare. Definitely won’t be using this brand!
Dave Perris it is quite tricky but I actually decided to use it again for a very minimalist job because it does have a tight clearance and mostly hidden hardware.
Hi Alistair, are you still favouring this budget sliding door gear? I was thinking of giving it a whirl...
I used it once more on the grey slab doors shown mid way through this video: ruclips.net/video/kxx9_aH-bIY/видео.htmlsi=x3W8kxSWm0l1mujF it's ok
Thanks, I'll give them a try.@@Alastair_Freebird