Colt-Berdan I: Russia's First Military Cartridge Rifle
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- Опубликовано: 23 дек 2024
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In 1867, a Russian delegation came to the United States to source new small arms for the Czar. In addition to purchasing Gatling guns, they met with Hiram Berdan and agreed to purchase a trapdoor single shot rifle he had designed. Berdan had been very active in the years immediately after the Civil War trying to sell breechloading conversions to any interested party, from New York to Egypt. The design that the Russians agreed on was a purpose-built single shot rifle instead of a conversion, chambered for the slightly bottlenecked .42 Berdan cartridge and using an in-line striker instead of the side hammer more common to trapdoor conversions.
Colt would produce 30,000 of these Model 1868 Berdan rifles for export to Russia, with the first example ready in December 1868 and bulk deliveries running from March 1869 until May 1870. Berdan himself immediately set about improving his design, and sold the result to the same Russian delegation in 1870.This was a single shot turnabout action, commonly referred to as the Berdan II.
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Malfunction: Failure to eject
Cause: Insufficient Gusto
Drill instructor: No, YOU are a failure to eject!
Gusto Glock is known for inventing the pistol. It's why it's so reliable. (clearly not serious...but people will correct me on this one I feel it)
According to most 19th century military minds any issue is due to a lack of gusto!
Recommended mitigation: Apply more gusto.
Glock 19 Proudly patented and made since 1919.
Fun fact in Russia "Berdanka" stays as slang for high caliber and/or obsolete hunting rifle to this day.
I didnt ever see one russian say it and i russian borned in russia
@@nikitaponomarev2011 A z-gen perhaps?
@@nikitaponomarev2011 IDK, my dad uses that term and it he was born in the late 70's in the USSR...
More likely any obsolete weapon at all, but yese
Russia is dumb
I love this time in history when everyone knew cartridge arms were the future but no one knew in what exact form. Wide open time for inventors.
I wanna go back in time and give ARs and AKs to the US... maybe after the civil war...
@@parzavaal5335 would be good until you needed to get ammo manufactured. Or parts. Or mags.
@@parzavaal5335 check out the book "guns of the south"
They actually have a berdan gold separator at our local frontier museum.
Fer separatin the gold and sech
@@Thy_Boss why yes indeed, quite the smart design too, if ya don't mind a little mercury.
@@justindunlap1235 *What's the name of said-museum?
(& locale?)
@@hancehanson4000 wouldn't you like to know, weather boy?
@@MarkLaLone *'weather'-boy? . . .
t'fuck izzah "Weather-Boy"?!
What a lovely turn of phrase you have Ian, "...and that will bounce the cartridge out, as long as you open it with enough gusto."
My favorite Ianisms is "The whole drum goes kerchunk"
@@sebastianriz4703 "I best hold on to this cross pin while I disassemble it or the whole mechanism goes sproing out on the table" is mine.
A lot of early cartridge rifles did require you to open the action aggressively to properly eject the case.
@@anzaca1 You really had to want it.
I just have to imagine Berdans interactions with Colt.
B: I swear I’m not lying the Russians really want 30,000 of this gun.
C: what about the 15,000 for New York or the 22,000 for Egypt?
B: …
?
@@daniilspiridonov 1:32-1:50 ish
Hiram, are the Russians here with us right now?
Ask anyone quoting on anything... Russia also got Colt to make manufacturing tooling that the Russians never used (it got adapted in Russia for the Berdan II instead). The Berdan II was 50% faster to load and fire.
This is the only gun you’re allowed to buy in Nys anymore because of the dumbocrats
Brings whole new meaning to "shoulder your burdens"
The guy is a beast. “Beast of Berden”?
No matter how hard I try, the name "Berdan" always brings the primer to my mind.
"Hi I am Othias, and this... ..."
Lmao I said this in a few videos. You best me to it this time.
Broken depriming pins come to mind....
@@rushthezeppelin Yeah, pity he didn't invent something to take the **** primer out!
@ rushthezeppelin
hydraulic depriming
Is the best way
Make a dowel rod that fits the case mouth
Fill the case with water and stick it in a case holder and stick the dowel in and smack it
I've always found it ironic that the European continent should wind up using the rifle primer created by an American and that the US of A should prefer using a primer created by a European.
Captain Gunius (Russian spelling, actually Hunnius) was actually a Finnish officer serving in Imperial Russian Army.
Finland was part of the Russian empire until 1917, when there was no Finnish army or Finnish officers ))
@@bacillusanthracis8399 Finnish officers in RIA, what struck you as wrong? Grand Duchy of Finland did exist as a part of RE
@@bacillusanthracis8399 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Guards%27_Rifle_Battalion
@@jukkatalari3896 yes, this article says exactly that: "Finnish Guards' Rifle Battalion, it was part of the Imperial Russian Army", as the Grand Duchy of Finland was a part of the Russian Empire.
The Russians did convert some of their 1857 six line muzzleloaders to breech loaders. It became known as the Krnka (anglicized to Krenk) in 1867. It was similar to a snider conversion, but whereas that opened to the right the Krnka opened to the left. It had a strange hammer where it was modified to have the striking part cut off, and a new central one placed in to be in line with the central firing pin. Some were still used up to and in the Russo-Turkish war 1877-78. It was not the easiest to use after several shots due to black powder fouling as it was hard to extract casings. These are very difficult to find (at least in the U.S.), and the rounds are practically non-existent. It was specifically a 15.24x40mmR cartridge.
Hey, wait a moment....isn't Krnka the name of the bloke designing these items? A Czech I think, first name Karel? designed some of the earliest self load pistols?
@@PaulP999yep
Fun fact: in Russia single-shot breechloader rifles still called "Berdanka".
Technically, Serbu RN-50 is a sort of berdanka.
Too early
It the PTRD a berdanka, too?
@@Piromanofeliz PTRD is bolt action. Berdankas can't have a bolt.
@@laierr but the berdan 2 has a bolt and it is the most famous berdan rifle
@@Piromanofeliz well, it's a colloquial name, not an exact technical term.
So, technically, I guess, you could call it "berdanka", no one could stop you. There are no rules. But usually, it just means a "cheap-ass single-shot civilian rifle".
Finally! The first Berdan is finally filmed! I have searched so hard bud I couldn't find any, as hard it was already to find anything on Berdan II aside from C&N Arsenal.
Thank you Ian for all the great work you're doing!
The Berdan is easily one of my favourite antique rifles of all time, if not my favourite. It's just so esoteric and neat.
*берданка* =D
And this particular example was so nice that you'd hang it on the wall.
So this is why here in Russia people call vintage rifles - "Берданка" [berdanka] =)
Berdanka donk?
Нет я не слышал такое
@@nikitaponomarev2011 подозреваю, что ты много чего не слышал или не знаешь, так как далек от темы
Nothing like a Forgotten Weapons video first thing in the morning to start the day!
It’s awesome. I love getting to learn something new every morning
It’s my afternoon cofee break or my knowledge minutes comiing back from work each day in EU
Or in the evening, after coming home from work.
@Scott Reynolds 🥱🥱😞
First thing for me right after coffee enema
For being 150 years or so old to my eye that is an rather elegant looking rifle. Might be almost useless as a combat rifle now a days but it sure looks nice
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine Note the words "combat rifle". It could hunt but it would be hopelessly obsolete in combat. It can still put a hole in someone but the battle would be almost over before you got off another round.
Yes and no. A hole would be quite sizable and devastating, but there will be no second one.
One shot stopping 😊
Damn what a beautiful gun.
Venables was in buissness till 1985. As this was being marketed to probably British Aristocracy, or some rich American Johhny come latley. I'll bet it spent time in the workshop being tarted up. Dazzle = Diamonds :-)
Beautiful workmanship. The fit and finish and materials are outstanding.
Hiram Berdan: Charrrrggggee!
_Soldiers charge_
_Berdan tugs at collar_
Hiram Berdan: Oh would you look at the time! I'm supposed to have a strategy meeting with uh... GOTTAGOBAI!
Ian's earlier video on the Berdan 2 is 5 years old, but well done, very worth watching. That Berdan 2 had a rough life, but looked serviceable. Sounds like he may have a more minty one to show us now. Looking forward to it!
I've always seen cartridges for sale at gun shows or otherwise being referred to as either boxer primed or berdan primed but never honestly thought about the people behind those names.
now I wonder if there are other kinds of primer packaging and formatting over the years!
There's a whole lot of early style primers. Those two pretty much took over and still rule the roost. One of the early versions of primers you may have already dealt with...paper cap gun. Paper caps are basically primers. And some of the early multiple firing primer systems essentially used the same sort of system.
One style that comes to mind, though not center-fire: The Lefaucheux, aka pinfire cartridge.
If you go to cartridgecollectors.org/?page=glossary and use Ctrl+F to find mentions of primers you'll find enough information to put into a search engine. There's also the "Pistón Internó" and "Otras Sistemas" tabs on old.municion.org with a lot of well condensed information if you don't mind that almost none of it is in English.
Hopefully we enjoyed it? When was the last time any of you failed to enjoy one of Ian's videos?
Thank you for the Informative video. When it comes to some very old or primitive small arms, then in Russia we still use such a colloquial synonym as "Berdanka". And the russians in the name of the Mosin rifle do not mention the name Nagan at all, unlike the americans. Nagant is famous only for the revolver in Russia.
Most of the time we Americans call it just “Mosin” as well, only when being more formal do we add nagant.
This was really cool to see, always wondered what the Berdan 1 actually looked like up close and the history behind it. Thanks for another great video as always.
Thank you for a super rare demonstration of the Berdan trapdoor. The Berdan bolt action was most visible to the point the document info material for Berdan trapdoor was very difficult to obtain.
The Firearms News magazine from Febuary 2021 has a great article by Paul Scarlata that also talks about the Berdan in Russian service and its use in the Balkins. Awesome photos too.
Thank you Ian for all the amazing work that you’ve done so far and for the work you will do in the future. It’s always a pleasure to watch your content as it is well researched and the production quality is always top notch thanks again
Nice. Don't think i have heard of these. Berdan sounds like a complex character with perhaps a bit of scoundrel mixed in. The period from about 1860 or 62 to the early 1890's (or late 1890's to i clude the 98 Mauser) is a fascinating period of innovation. From paper cartridge muzzleloaders to large bore rimfires to centerfire, trapdoors to single shot bolt actions and then repeaters, black powder to smokeless powder needing special steels.
I've been trying to find alot of this stuff, I'm glad you've found it
As Gold mining history is a real interest of mine, I was familiar with a "Berdan" used in gold processing. I started watching this thinking there was no way this rifle would be related - A real surprise to find they are!
Always wondered what the first Berdan was, but all I would find is the Berdan II...
My grandfather had a rifle just like that he kept hidden until 1991, I’m looking for a picture of him with it but as I remember it was a door for cartridge type of a rifle
Damn, that wood looks new it's in such good condition.
Venables was quite a prestigious dealeras up till 1985. Wether that is orignale wood work Iwonder. Being a sthey sold to the Aristocracy I'll bet quite a few man hours in the workshop went into it.
@@51WCDodge The thought had occured
Good video! That rifle is in fantastic condition, and will probably sell in the 5-digit range...btw, it is listed on the auction as being in "rare .45 caliber" instead of the cyrillic marked Russian issue weapons in 10.66x57r. So, what is the caliber?
Fwiw, the Berdan II, 4.2 linya vintovka Berdana obr.1870g, was produced at Birmingham Small Arms, and later at all three Russian Arsenals, not just Izhevsk and Tula. About 3 million were produced, so many many more than the BI.
The Berdan II made by BSA, was with the Machine Tools supplied by Greenwood and Batley of Leeds; this contract was to "Prove" both the design, and The Machinery.
G&B Also engineered the machinery to Withworth Inch specs ( Imperial Russia used Inches and Liniya ( 1/10 inch) and 1/10 Linii...ie, 1/100 Inch...the Withworth system introduced the Thousandth of an Inch into Russian Engineering.
Tula, Ishevsk, and Sestroryetsk were fully outfitted by G&B for the BdnII, and later, when the Vintovka Mosina was adopted, both the Withworth system and most of the Berdan equipment with modification, as well as New Machines from G&B unique for MN production, were used.
Doc AV
Beautiful rifle, Ian. Thanks for sharing this awesome piece of firearms history with us!
"Fun Fact": Ian DOES have a look at the Berdan II in a 2016 video.
Ian, I believe you already did a video on Berdan II in 2016, haven't you?
great video btw!
Forgotten weapons did a video on a Berdan II back in 2016
It blew my mind when i learned that you could talk about "Berdan" and for three separate things, you can say, "Yes. That Berdan"
Pretty sweet. What a nice iteration of the trapdoor system.
Errrrm, re "we'll do a video on the Berdan II at a later date when I have access to one of those"... you did a video on one in 2016 Ian: it comes up as one of the two recommended videos at the end of this one... :-)
I've been waiting for this video. Seriously
In Lithuania we use a slang term "bardankė" for old huge hunting rifles or smoothbores.
Sometimes even as a funny term for our more modern service rifles. Paramilitary union still use some of Swedish G3 - AK4MT, that is a little more obsolete and fits this term better, but is still a very capable gun.
That is not in any way an original lithuanian language word and it surely came from russian language slang when held occupied by Soviet Russia 1940-1941 and 1944-1990 and by Russian Empire 1795-1915.
Now I understand where EXACTLY this slang came from.
Thanks, Ian!
And a cheering salute from my DD MK18 for all our American pals and their support for our freedom !
As Ian Say's - That rifle is really "minty"!
When the US had relatively warm relations with Russia...
Before the dark times, before the Bolsheviks
That was the time when the Russians came with lots of gold to buy LOTS of guns from Colt, Remington, Westinghouse and Smith&Wesson.
Up until the Bolsheviks came into power the US was a fairly big arms supplier to the Russians. Both Remington and Westinghouse delivered nearly 500,000 Mosin-Nagants to them and the 1911 was a popular pistol (51,000 delivered) that inspired the later Tokarev.
@@kutter_ttl6786 and lets not forget one of the coolest lever guns ever, the Winchester 95's chambered in 7.62-54R and took Mosin stripper clips. three hundred thousand made for WW1
Russia was one of the few countries that openly (and loudly) supported the North during the Civil War. So this obviously created good will.
It’s another version of the 1873 breech loader rifle Springfield trapdoor rifle
Not long from now I tried to collect some information about Berdan II, but it didn't go well.
I can't wait to learn more from here.
Keep up the great work Ian stay safe out there
7:55 There's an Oxford in CT, where Hartford is, FWIW.
I was looking at one of these for 1/6 scale. I didn’t know that they also chambered it in 7.62X54R.
There were some conversions of the Berdan II to use 7.62x54R, but all of the Berdan I's were in .42 Berdan (4.2 line or 10.7x58mmR).
I can't see this action being adapted to smokeless powder - it's essentially identical to the Springfield model 1873.
The gold rushes still are ongoing. You are in one of the main states for it. More gold has been found in the past 10 years than the previous 90 combined.
I'm up early on account of my severely broken ankle. Thank you pain for bringing this to my attention at 5 am!
Ouch, get well soon!
@@stefanmolnapor910 thanks! It happened Friday and I have yet to be seen by a specialist. I can't stand my American insurance. Fingers crossed I'll get that appointment call today. Cheers.
@@bassassassinnn7459 I'm so thankful that I live in a country that has universal healthcare.
Hope that you get your appointment soon.
@@alonenotlonely1179 thanks. Yeah I have full coverage here in California, but so far the doctors seem to have no sense of urgency. 3 broken bones in my ankle, and 3 torn ligaments and tendons. Still have yet to receive any medication to help with the pain. Be very happy for what you have where you're from! I wish I was in that position.
@@alonenotlonely1179 lol that doesn’t mean you don’t have to wait either. Despite what you hear from braggers.
In the video you mentioned you would do a video on the Berdan II.... you already have... 5 years ago.
Did Ian forget he did a video on the Berdan II about 5 years ago?
Uuuh, Ian? You do have a video on the Berdan II already...
I own the Winchester carbine in 44 Russian that the Russian government passed on.
I handled a famous collector’s serial number 2. This seems at odds with the no serial numbers until approved in Russia.
It was in beautiful condition. I don’t remember confidently if it had Cyrillic writing on it but I don’t think it did. Definitely a Colt Berdan striker trapdoor. Would have been about 20 years ago.
Wow. The last time I was this early there was ammo on the shelves at gun shops.
I chuckled, and then I was sad.
Berdans II (or some modifications of Berdans)were in service in secondary units, like armed civilian guards in Russia up until 1980ies...
Ian you did a video on the Berdan 2 five years ago at Rock Island
Thanks I finally understood what Berdanka is. :)
Fascinating.
Thanx Ian.
One of 4 missing from my collection, whoa!
I really like the idea of "trapdoor with striker". I wonder if there's other example like that.
еее, легендарные Берданки)
я всегда думал "берданками" называют некоторые из двухстволок, а оказывается это вообще однозарядная винтовка))
еее
Легендарная это вторая модель
(обязательный коммент на русском)
Conceptually, a better & stronger action than Springfield trapdoor conversion. But, the self-cocking Peabody-Martini adopted by the UK seems better. Conversely, the Berdan cartridge design probably better than the original.450/.577. As is well known, Berdan primer used in Europe and the Brit Boxer primer is US standard.
Edit: I stand corrected. The Brits adopted the Martini-Henry in the Boxer chambering. The M-H was a far better system.
The last sentence isn't true anymore.
The British did not adopt the Peabody-Martini.
Peabody-Martinis were made for sale outside the British Empire. Notably to the Turks.
@@kevinoliver3083 I was eating a turkey sandwich at the time (haha). I stand corrected. Cheers
Yo Ian, I'm super interested on how you feel about the ongoing NGSW program and the rifles involved. Hope u do a vid discussing it
Ok, I guess that's why a variety of a single-shot rifles in Russia called "berdanka".
This particular example is in a remarkably nice condition.
“But when Martyn-Solsky arrived, the left-handed man was breathing his last, because he had cracked his neck on the pavement, and could utter intelligibly only these words: "Tell the Emperor that the English do not clean their guns with brick-dust. Let them not clean their guns so among us; otherwise-God preserve us from war-they will not be fit to fire."
(The Steel Flea, Nikolai Semyonovitch Lyeskoff, 1881)
brick dust?
@@mrfluffytailthethird en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tale_of_Cross-eyed_Lefty_from_Tula_and_the_Steel_Flea?wprov=sfla1
@@mrfluffytailthethird Period metal cleaning powder made from fired brick type clay. Used in oil. It is how muskets barrels were kept mirror bright. Impecunious soldiers would make their own by rubbing two soft old bricks together and mix it with water instead of oil.
@@mrfluffytailthethird yes
I still haven't figured out how they formed the brass for these.
You give it a loving home, and gently guide it into becoming adult brass. If you do a good job, it might end up working with Berdans. A bad job is a .300 BLK sneaking into a 5.56 mag and banging things out.
Take a sheet of brass, then roll it through a machine that pushes a steel rod into the sheet and stretches the brass into a cup shape. From that step, you flatten out the case head, machine the primer pocket and rim, then anneal the case mouth to form the shoulder by shoving the mostly-complete straight case into another steel die (like you do when you reload).
wow what a rifle....
1 MONTH AGO U WRITE
@@whenyougodown228 Patreon?
That's why he's called early riser
@@cujotwentysix7519 What?
2:40 - Wow, I've only heard Eric of IV8888 mention them
Really nice looking rifle
Literally just got to hold one of these a couple days ago, what a coincidence.
So Berdan was basically a skaven warplock engineer?
Yes yes Man-thing. Hurry-fast to armory.
Nice locking system!
First cartridge Russian rifle was Krnka M1867, then Karle rifle and only then the Berdan rifle.
I've been watching your videos since the first intro, and with these odd cartridges could you throw up a pic of the bullet for the first bit of you explains the round the firearm uses? I love your vids!
Отличная для своего времени винтовка. Но для России производили "Бердан 2". Она очень сильно отличалась от первой модели
Is the rear sight graduated in the Russian arshin? According to wiki that's about 28 inches. I suppose that would throw you off quite a bit if you were expecting yards or meters.
It's functionally a pace. Or rather, a single step.
3:12 How a bottleneck cartridge facilitates sealing any more than a straight-walled one? 🤔
Strangely elegant, these old firearms.
Finally the rifle i always want to see the review by gun jesus
Thanks for the vid sir.👍🏼👍🏼
May the forth be with you.
Go away
@@conman3538 No need to be rude
Tito died this day :(
@@skyguard155 Do you mean Josip Broz?
@@derekbowbrick6233 Yes, Josip Broz Tito
If it hasnt been covered yet, it would be interesting to discuss the Peabody -Martini rifles that were issued to Turkey in the early 1870s. As I understand it, these rifles were used in the first ever recorded event of indirect volley firing by the Turks against the advancing Russians, who may have been equipped with these Berdan rifles.
That rifle is in fantastic shape to be 160 years old.
didnt you do a video on the berdan II back in 2016?
Ah a minty fresh rifle.
The breach l9cking system looks remarkably similar to a Confederate Morse carbine.
I'm going to assume this is where the Berdan primer came from, or was derived from.
I never drew the connection between “Berdan” as in primers etc, and Berdan’s sharpshooters...
"Berdan 1, first Russian rifle, adopted to CF metal cartridge"
Kazakov 1857 cartridge rifle: - I'm a joke for you?
Actually, the first breeach-loading gun with metal CF cartridge in Russia was a Pauly gun. The Russians were interested in this for a while, but then they stopped. Later, in 1857, gunsmith Kazakov developed a rifle and a pistol using a metal CF cartridge, with a conical bottlenecked case. Several gunsmiths between 1857 and 1868 tried to make rifles and pistols with CF cartridges.
First cartridge rifle? The 1867 Karle and 1867 Krnka feel left out 😢
Oooh, good to know :) Let's hope our illustrious host renames the video a bit. For example "Russia's Early Military Cartridge Rifle"
Although it might have been the first non-conversion from what I'm reading about them.
I would argue the fact the Berdan I overshadowed either of those rifles speak to their lack luster preformance.
@@clothar23 Whether they were good or bad doesn’t negate their existence. Both were produced in significant numbers, we just hardly ever see them. I’ve owned two Krnka over the years but only seen a Karle in a museum.
@@thebotrchap And I would argue the exact opposite. A rifle that is throughly out preformed by its competition doesn't deserve to be remembered.
We're dealing with implements soldiers are trusting with their lives not cheese cake recipes.
Great video
What was the rifle Russians used against the infamous charge of the British Light Cavalry in the Crimean war.? I remember reading from some source that the Russians were equipped with "fast firing" breech loading rifles. In my history time lane it doesn't really add up.
Just checked my copy of Orlando Figes "The Crimean War". Pages 241-253 cover the battle of Balaklava which was October 25, 1854. Figes uses the word "musket" and a quoted passage from a Russian witness uses the word "rifle" but that may be an artifact of translation. I think Figes would have noted if they Russian units had anything other than muzzle loading muskets. He's not a military historian per se and is more interested in the cultural and political impact of the war. Even so, he will discuss specific armaments if one side has a notable advantage or is facing a severe disparity. In this case, command's gross misunderstanding of the tactical situation was the killer. The brigade had to charge 2 Km (Wikipedia says 1.2 Km, Figes 2 Km) into a valley frontally assaulting an artillery position while receiving enfilading musket and artillery fire from the both sides. And of course then they had to exit the same way the entered. Perhaps another commenter knows for sure but it looks like a "no" for fast firing breech loading rifles in this battle.
Almost looks like something you'd see a ceremonial guard use. . .
Mr Gorlov also bought bunch of Gatling guns. Then we reverse engineered them)