Underground Propane tanks, especially for back up generator's should never be buried near a house, and should be above ground on a cement pad, so any issues can be quickly diagnosed.
This is not a correct statement. Underground tanks are safer than above ground tanks. Above ground tanks must be located at least 25 ft. from a residence and 25 ft from a property line adjacent to property that can be built upon. An underground tank may be located 10ft from these places. Underground tanks must be protected from rust by "cathodic protection" or a bag of magnesium underground by the tank (2 bags if it is a 1000 gal tank). This protection is to be tested regularly. My guess is that the leak was from an appliance in the home, or gas left on, or an appliance supply corrugated line that leaked and filled the home while the homeowner debated whether to call someone about the smell. It appears that the propane tank did NOT explode, but that the house which had filled with vapor is what exploded. Otherwise, there would have been more of the house remaining and a large crater in the ground had it been the tank. The investigation will reveal these facts, but most people will not follow up, and will remain ignorant. It is important to remember, that per year, electricity is far more dangerous than propane or natural gas.
We lived in a modern townhome neighborhood in Fairfax and the gas mains were right in front where our cars parked in the driveway. They leaked like crazy especially on cold days. We'd call the rancid smell in to the HOA and wash gas and FCFRD but would routinely be brushed off as paranoid. I think we need to look into the sire development and building inspections process to see how this can happen in a county where there are such robust staff, taxes and regulation.
In many houses in Loudoun County, it is either gas or electric. There is no large scale natural gas distribution. And as for moving the in-ground propane tanks, there is no way. All you are doing is moving your tank closer to your neighbors house. And many/most yards are are so small, moving your tank might result in a move of maybe 5 or 10 feet at the most. In most yards any potential move will be less. As for the smell of gas….most of the time this is caused because the owners/tenants let their tank run dry. Apparently they are not responsible enough to keep an eye on their tank level. When you let the propane tank run to empty, normal safety switches fail to close and as a result the remaining small level of gas in the tank leaks out. It doesn’t take much gas to leak out before your nose picks it up and causes alarm bells in your head to go off.
Thank you, this was the clarification about this area I've been looking for. I looked up the address on Washington Gas's website, and while they claimed gas service to that address was possible ... that didn't tell me much about what this development, which as far as I could tell was built at the beginning of the 80s, would have had available to it at the time it was built (and therefore, what would likely still be most common in the neighborhood). Especially given that the area was all farms not long before the 80s-90s, it seemed like a toss up as to whether there was an effort to run NG out to new developments in Loudon back then, or whether even though WG currently says they can service the area, it will simply be at very high cost or something, due to lack of much preexisting line network. (By contrast I've never heard of people having 500 gallon propane tanks instead of NG line service, even on builds from the 50s-60s, in neighboring FFX.) Unfortunately in the end it doesn't make much difference whether you've got propane or NG, your house can still explode just as badly either way. :(
Gas is available there, the propane was for the outdoor inground pool, natural gas costs twice as much for a pool versus propane, the second paragraph makes no sense and is wrong. The owner does not call the propane co, the tanks have a cell phone monitor for alerts to be filled. There is no problem with running tanks dry. I have three houses propane and we have zero worries about them. Here is what happened, underground tank for the POOL HEATER, gas was not going to house. Truck fills tank with supercold propane (it was cold out with snow headed in) and filled it to the brim, tank is underground and warmer. Propane warmed up and expanded, valve popped open to blow off some of the expanding gas, its heavier than air, seeped into basement sills, which are 8 inches below the grass. Spark in basement from just about anything ignited the gas. Find out when propane was filled (probably that day).
This is good info. Thanks. As for being wrong….much of western Louden is as I stated….in-ground 500 gallon tanks. There is no Washington Gas service. And there is no tank level warning system. When they spoke of a 500 gallon tank, I’ve never seen that large of a tank being used for anything other than household heating and kitchen use. Out here we get lots of “gas smell” fire dept calls because of tank-empty reasons. Sounds like closer in for Loudoun county, they went with a hybrid system.
Here is what happened, underground tank for the POOL HEATER, gas was not going to house. Truck fills tank with supercold propane (it was cold out with snow headed in) and filled it to the brim, tank is underground and warmer. Propane warmed up and expanded, valve popped open to blow off some of the expanding gas, its heavier than air, seeped into basement sills, which are 8 inches below the grass. Spark in basement from just about anything ignited the gas. Find out when propane was filled (probably that day).
@@LindaFirefighter03 you are correct sir, and if they DID fill it to over 80% and the propane expanded because the ground was warmer than the gas collected from an above ground storage tank, it leaked, hence, why the feds and ntsb are there now
@@LindaFirefighter03 Nice try but no tank is ever filled to 100% capacity. OH REALLY ? ruclips.net/video/gneIFZy4Ga8/видео.htmlsi=d2UhXWbzcR-jcjsa ruclips.net/video/hKqlIbQld1g/видео.htmlsi=A5XkiaQ67yeh2c8q ruclips.net/video/Owot3h0_t7w/видео.htmlsi=SFzxYMvBDiayiCL5 ruclips.net/video/-ARuSS-G_wo/видео.htmlsi=p4p-ddCXVQ-zpoLj ruclips.net/video/dBPJl_iZEnM/видео.htmlsi=m7syiKL9flccbwzw you need more training at your firehouse dear
You say "Here is what happened,...." Are you one of the investigators? If you are not, please don't make guesses that are not based in fact. To provide some accuracy, propane IS very cold at atmospheric pressure. It is -44 degrees Fahrenheit. When contained in a pressure vessel (the tank) it will be at ambient temperature. Yes it will expand when warmed, but in an underground tank (42" below ground at its top) this temperature change is very relatively small. It is also unlikely that the delivery technician filled the tank beyond the 80% limit allowed by regulation which is for this very event. While it is possible to that a leak occurred that would allow leakage out of the tank's underground riser up onto the ground and then find a below grade window or vent (and the tank must be 10 ft away from the house). The gas would likely have dissipated to a non-flammable gas to air mixture (anything below 2% gas to air). Best to let the investigators do their work.
This is not news. It is normal fire department practice. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) is the agency responsible for investigating firefighter line-of-duty deaths (LODDs).100% of on duty deaths are investigate by NIOSH.
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Underground Propane tanks, especially for back up generator's should never be buried near a house, and should be above ground on a cement pad, so any issues can be quickly diagnosed.
This is not a correct statement. Underground tanks are safer than above ground tanks. Above ground tanks must be located at least 25 ft. from a residence and 25 ft from a property line adjacent to property that can be built upon. An underground tank may be located 10ft from these places. Underground tanks must be protected from rust by "cathodic protection" or a bag of magnesium underground by the tank (2 bags if it is a 1000 gal tank). This protection is to be tested regularly. My guess is that the leak was from an appliance in the home, or gas left on, or an appliance supply corrugated line that leaked and filled the home while the homeowner debated whether to call someone about the smell. It appears that the propane tank did NOT explode, but that the house which had filled with vapor is what exploded. Otherwise, there would have been more of the house remaining and a large crater in the ground had it been the tank. The investigation will reveal these facts, but most people will not follow up, and will remain ignorant. It is important to remember, that per year, electricity is far more dangerous than propane or natural gas.
@@DocFixit32Thanks for the input, seems like you have found the code references, nice work
We lived in a modern townhome neighborhood in Fairfax and the gas mains were right in front where our cars parked in the driveway. They leaked like crazy especially on cold days. We'd call the rancid smell in to the HOA and wash gas and FCFRD but would routinely be brushed off as paranoid. I think we need to look into the sire development and building inspections process to see how this can happen in a county where there are such robust staff, taxes and regulation.
Why are we not hearing about the owner?
She has been reported on. She got out safe as did her fellow resident. That's all that needs to be known. She might want to maintain her privacy.
We have heard about them. Before the explosion occurred the firefighters removed 2 adults and 2 cats.
In many houses in Loudoun County, it is either gas or electric. There is no large scale natural gas distribution. And as for moving the in-ground propane tanks, there is no way. All you are doing is moving your tank closer to your neighbors house. And many/most yards are are so small, moving your tank might result in a move of maybe 5 or 10 feet at the most. In most yards any potential move will be less.
As for the smell of gas….most of the time this is caused because the owners/tenants let their tank run dry. Apparently they are not responsible enough to keep an eye on their tank level. When you let the propane tank run to empty, normal safety switches fail to close and as a result the remaining small level of gas in the tank leaks out. It doesn’t take much gas to leak out before your nose picks it up and causes alarm bells in your head to go off.
Thank you, this was the clarification about this area I've been looking for. I looked up the address on Washington Gas's website, and while they claimed gas service to that address was possible ... that didn't tell me much about what this development, which as far as I could tell was built at the beginning of the 80s, would have had available to it at the time it was built (and therefore, what would likely still be most common in the neighborhood). Especially given that the area was all farms not long before the 80s-90s, it seemed like a toss up as to whether there was an effort to run NG out to new developments in Loudon back then, or whether even though WG currently says they can service the area, it will simply be at very high cost or something, due to lack of much preexisting line network. (By contrast I've never heard of people having 500 gallon propane tanks instead of NG line service, even on builds from the 50s-60s, in neighboring FFX.)
Unfortunately in the end it doesn't make much difference whether you've got propane or NG, your house can still explode just as badly either way. :(
Gas is available there, the propane was for the outdoor inground pool, natural gas costs twice as much for a pool versus propane, the second paragraph makes no sense and is wrong. The owner does not call the propane co, the tanks have a cell phone monitor for alerts to be filled. There is no problem with running tanks dry. I have three houses propane and we have zero worries about them.
Here is what happened, underground tank for the POOL HEATER, gas was not going to house. Truck fills tank with supercold propane (it was cold out with snow headed in) and filled it to the brim, tank is underground and warmer. Propane warmed up and expanded, valve popped open to blow off some of the expanding gas, its heavier than air, seeped into basement sills, which are 8 inches below the grass. Spark in basement from just about anything ignited the gas. Find out when propane was filled (probably that day).
This is good info. Thanks. As for being wrong….much of western Louden is as I stated….in-ground 500 gallon tanks. There is no Washington Gas service. And there is no tank level warning system. When they spoke of a 500 gallon tank, I’ve never seen that large of a tank being used for anything other than household heating and kitchen use. Out here we get lots of “gas smell” fire dept calls because of tank-empty reasons. Sounds like closer in for Loudoun county, they went with a hybrid system.
Underground Propane Tank?! Underground Propane Tank?!
What kind of a stupid idea is that to have a propane tank underground!!?!
Here is what happened, underground tank for the POOL HEATER, gas was not going to house. Truck fills tank with supercold propane (it was cold out with snow headed in) and filled it to the brim, tank is underground and warmer. Propane warmed up and expanded, valve popped open to blow off some of the expanding gas, its heavier than air, seeped into basement sills, which are 8 inches below the grass. Spark in basement from just about anything ignited the gas. Find out when propane was filled (probably that day).
Nice try but no tank is ever filled to 100% capacity. Not even the little tanks people buy for their BBQ. 80% is the usual amount.
@@LindaFirefighter03 you are correct sir, and if they DID fill it to over 80% and the propane expanded because the ground was warmer than the gas collected from an above ground storage tank, it leaked, hence, why the feds and ntsb are there now
@@LindaFirefighter03 Nice try but no tank is ever filled to 100% capacity.
OH REALLY ?
ruclips.net/video/gneIFZy4Ga8/видео.htmlsi=d2UhXWbzcR-jcjsa
ruclips.net/video/hKqlIbQld1g/видео.htmlsi=A5XkiaQ67yeh2c8q
ruclips.net/video/Owot3h0_t7w/видео.htmlsi=SFzxYMvBDiayiCL5
ruclips.net/video/-ARuSS-G_wo/видео.htmlsi=p4p-ddCXVQ-zpoLj
ruclips.net/video/dBPJl_iZEnM/видео.htmlsi=m7syiKL9flccbwzw
you need more training at your firehouse dear
You say "Here is what happened,...." Are you one of the investigators? If you are not, please don't make guesses that are not based in fact. To provide some accuracy, propane IS very cold at atmospheric pressure. It is -44 degrees Fahrenheit. When contained in a pressure vessel (the tank) it will be at ambient temperature. Yes it will expand when warmed, but in an underground tank (42" below ground at its top) this temperature change is very relatively small. It is also unlikely that the delivery technician filled the tank beyond the 80% limit allowed by regulation which is for this very event. While it is possible to that a leak occurred that would allow leakage out of the tank's underground riser up onto the ground and then find a below grade window or vent (and the tank must be 10 ft away from the house). The gas would likely have dissipated to a non-flammable gas to air mixture (anything below 2% gas to air). Best to let the investigators do their work.
@@DocFixit32 yes, i only have three propane powered homes and fourty years
I deliver packages in Northern Virginia, and I very frequently smell gas leaks in neighborhoods.
This is not news. It is normal fire department practice. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) is the agency responsible for investigating firefighter line-of-duty deaths (LODDs).100% of on duty deaths are investigate by NIOSH.