Techy here, I love my backplates, even for recreational single tank and instruction all the way to cave and deep ccr/twinset stuff, one tool that does everything vs tons of bcds for each use.
I'm a relatively new recreational diver, started with a used AquaLung Wave jacket BC then bought a stainless backplate with a 30# wing over the summer. What a difference! The bulk of the weight being spread over the lungs immediately improved my trim, I don't feel like the Michelin man, and the harness with crotch strap keeps the system tightly in place. Unless you're super short or tall it's basically a once size fits all system. Add to that it's cheaper ($350US at DGX) and you can remove the bladder from the wing to repair or replace rather than throwing out the whole system. After about a dozen dives I'm surprised more rec divers don't use them!
The wing has its advantages but the stab offers things that a recreational diver wants - lots of pockets for example. The stab is generally more comfortable as well, particularly for skinny divers and for ladies. And it takes less "adjusting" to get the proper trim both in the water and on the surface. The stab also gives you more options for weight placement. I'm glad you've got your system working for you. Alec
Wow Alek you are a hell of a comunicator .. so fluid and clear in concept as in timing is your speach . Think y heard that you had being teacher and instructor but many teachers cant deliver such clear concepts in such limited time . Quite remarcable . Keep it up !!
Another great video, Alec. I'm a Tec diver with many years diving under my belt and I always tune in. There's always a gem or three to learn from you, sir!
Thanks again Alec, great post. I keep mentioning your channels to all my friends and students. Keep up the good work! I make only some 20 true technical dives a year. The rest are recreational or training dives. I switched to a ‘technical’ configuration (wing, long hose, 2 first stages etc.) for all my dives some years ago. Not only because I want to be fully familiar with the total system when a make a tough dive but also because I experienced a wing system (and Hogarthian configuration) as far more convenient, comfortable and simple than a BCD “jacket” with octopus system. Now, I accept this is personal choice and I don’t want to force anything to anyone. But the strange thing is: all my “recreational diving” students compare what I wear to what they have and the all say: “I want what you have too! I want a wing, longhose etc.” but somehow the sales in the various dive shops convinced them to buy jackets first “because everybody buys a jacket BCD first ....and wings are for technical divers...”.
I don’t see why people think this sort of configuration is only for technical diving and I don’t understand why people sell wings as something special? It is not. Wings (and Hogarthian like configurations) are absolutely great for recreational diving, light for travel and modular. And why not for beginners? If you keep it simple, it can even be cheaper! So, my point is a modular wing system may be developed by technical divers but it is for everybody!
well said, I actually know quite a few people now who did their OW class in a Hogarthian/DIR set up and those people develop good skills way easier, it seems like.
My thoughts exactly. I don't do any technical diving and I dive a BP/W. It's pretty much all I've known since open water. People comment to me all the time about how "BP/Ws are for technical divers". That's sooooo far from the truth. I try to convince them to try one and they simply wont. I don't get the attachment to a jacket.
For my birthday I’m going to get my scuba Diving certification, you have been a big help with all of you videos on what to get and not go get plus all of your tips.
I've used an ali backplate and harness for 3 years now and I'll never go back to a jacket BCD. The harness is so much more comfortable and secure, and the rig is much lighter for travel. In warm water I use a single tank adapter with an 18lb Apeks wing, and for cold water at home I have a 45lb wing with twin 12 litres. Whichever one I'm wearing I know the fit is going to be perfect and knife, back-up light and everything else will be in the same place.
Mr. Peirce, outstanding! As usual you kick out good non biased approach when giving advice, tips and tricks. Guys n gals like you are everything the dive industry should stand for. No peer pressure, no condemning, just good solid advice for novice to the experienced diver. No looong drawn out peer pressure fueled sermons, no condemnation of one style to another just solid advice. As a commercial diver and everything in between I was privaledged to learn and train under guys like you back when I was cutting my teeth in my dive career so Keep it up! We live in a social media age unlike back when I started in 91 so Lotta new divers benefit from Industry leaders like you.. My crew and I always enjoy your material. Btw you ain't lying about those SP Seawing Nova's. Just picked up a pair. They are a dream after years of wearing my old concrete shoe jetfins🤣
Thanks for watching and for your support. Yeah. I don't think the Novas will work on the job. Great when out for fun though! Take care down there. Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter yep, some jobs in the ( the muck) running umbilicals we don't even wear fins, just our boots! Lol. But for reg sport diving with the wife they're a dream! FYI they're even decent for techy stuff when I'm running BP & sidemount configurations with frog kicks, and other modified finning techniques even backing up with some adaptation. Anyways if we're ever up in your neck of woods we will reach out and visit some of those shops you feature. Dive safe and keep those videos popping out!
Backplate and wing is NOT for techdivers only;) its for all kinds of dives and you can enjoy it even if you want to make shallow 5 meter dives at our Swedish westcoast looking at colourful fishes, with a 7 liter steel bottle. Nice video- keep your good work sir! :)
Certainly all divers can use a backplate and wing BCD. However, most new divers learn using a stab jacket and almost all rental scuba gear worldwide uses a stab jacket style. The reason is simple. While the backplate & wing offers some advantages, they come at a price. It is not a simple "strap it on and go diving". It takes some education and some practice to learn how to get your weight placement correct so you have good trim, particularly at the surface where the natural tendency of a backplate & wing is to float you face down. Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter I thing the face down problem would vanish if ppl would be forced to setup the rig in a correct way. But I must say I'm a cold water diver so allready need more weight which results in a steel backplate and lead mounted directly on the backplate which results in a more balanced setup. I also think the price is a big factor why wings are not that common on vacation divers and bases. I mean a good wing costs about 200$/€ and you have to buy the backplate, lead pockets and so on. But I love to adjust my system to all my needs and can drop the crap I don't need.
Alec Peirce Scuba thanks Alec. I actually own several of the old hard pack. And some old single hose regulators. There on display at are local dive shop.
I'd love to see him talk about the DIR setup that agencies like GUE, IANTD, RAID, etc use. I would like to know what a recreational diver thinks about that, it'd be neat to have an outside perspective. Could help new divers
BPW (back plate wing) setups can definitely used for recreational diving. And the DIR philosophy can also apply to recreational diving, though you don't have to necessarily follow the entire philosophy and approach strictly. A BPW setup using a one piece harness keeps the front of your body free of clutter while many jacket BCs (even where the air bladder is only on the back, aka wing style jacket BC) can have a large wrap around pocket, weight pocket, etc. at the waist. BPW setups can also make it easier for divers to dive in proper horizontal trim position. With a steel BP, you can also potentially wear less weights on the belt, and the steel BP will distribute weight more on your back.
I'm a rec diver, I went straight for the BPW setup when I bought my own gear. Jacket bcd pockets are useless for storing things and accessing them underwater, but they still take up a lot of space in front of you, and then torches and reels and camera have to go yet over that bulk. BPW gets rid of that waste of space that just adds drag. DIR has many good rules about diving safely. It's worth going through them and at the very least think about how your setup measures up to them and consciously justify why some of the rules may not apply to your type of diving.
Hey Alec, thank you for these very interesting and informative videos. I love your channel. Sea Hunt is also the reason I dive. Although I got started later in life, the fascination of diving has been with me since the 60's, seeing and hearing about the changes and progression of the sport has only made me respect the old skool divers even more and drawn me deeper into the sport. So thanks, and keep on keeping on.
I recently got an OMS back plate harness system and I love it! Got a 45lbs cell and even hooked up a twin set . Don’t even need weights cause the back plate weights 5 pounds and that’s al the weight I need to sink.Loving it!!!!. Good video 🤙
It's on the list Cameron. Until then, there are lots of good channels to find that information. Look at LakeHickoryScuba as he does a lot of tech work. Thanks for watching. Alec.
Hi Alec! Just wanted to say a huge thank you for all of your advice videos on what to look for in regs, BCs and everything else- it was so helpful when I finally decided to buy my own regulators after 4 years of diving on rentals now. I start my Divemaster training next summer in Crete, any tips?
Hi Alec, That White Arrow back plate caught my attention, do you recommend it? I think it is a good idea for a traveling set. How much? Do you sell it in your store?
That backplate was at Dan's Dive Shop in St. Chatherines, Ontario. They are experts in backplate gear and diving so best to contact them at: dansdiveshop.ca. Tell them Alec sent you.
Another great video Alec. Ever since I took a Solo Diver & Sidemount Diver course from SDI a few years ago, I’ve been using a lot of Technical gear & ideas to improve my diving skills such as redundancy (2 of everything), rule of thirds, etc. Maybe there’s another Scuba Tip video on that subject for you. Also, why not do a video from Dan Humble’s DTTC (Dive Tech & Training Center) here in Eastern Ontario located in Mallorytown near Brockville, On. I think you know Dan quite well. His Dive shop is 1st class and I know he would be honoured to host such an event.
I'd be very happy to do a video at DTTC. I'll speak to him to see when he's planning to move closer! Kidding of course, although the distance to Dan's shop is a consideration. I do travel that way occasionally so I'll see if we can organize something. Alec
Nice video, thanks for the tips! In the intro of the video, the top-right photo shows you demonstrating the Kraken smart phone housing. I don't remember watching that and it interests me very much. Is it from a future video or have I missed it?
Hi Andreas. That thumbnail was from video; Scuba Tech Tips: Let's Ban Underwater Photography - S07E08, ruclips.net/video/15DI6SLs-pA/видео.html It was a tonge-in-cheek discussion I hope you like. Thanks for watching and being so observant. Alec
I don't know where you attach your air cell, but I bolt my wing through the 2 holes in the middle. The ones on the edge I use for accessories. Good talk though.
Love it ... i'd suggest BPs are great for rec diving too... they are great becuase modularity mean you replace stuff that wears out.... imagine a car where the wheels were welded on... breaks or tires are old?? ok time to get a new car... also you can go dive Dry w/ double steel100s on victoria then next week key largo in your speedos w/ an al60... you can make your system perfect for each dive... vs having a jacket that is kinda good most of the time... also you can mix and match what you like, if it fits 2" web it fits you rig...need an extra hole? well grab your dirll... they are also great if you are not an average shape good luck finding a jacket if you are short and curvy.. or a bit asemetrical ( like we all are) everything is adjustable... Id say that if you are spending more than $500 on a BC a plate sytem will save you money in the long term... the traspack is a nice middle ground consept to talk about too ... it could be cool to walk folks though the spectrum of a transpack to a soft harnes on travel Al plate to full tech 10# steel plate with doubles and double cells and stages.. ( you know for diving though a hole in the ice to access a cave at 200' ,at altitude, at night, to salave gold from inside a mini sub...)
Back plates are a growing area of gear for fun divers, not just cave and tec. Like most purchases you get a basic, jacket BC, then with experience upgrade to BP setup and evolve and tune it over more dives. Thanks for sharing Mars.
I dive a Zeagle Ranger with a 5 lbs Dive Rite backplate bolted in with the dive rite s.t.a on the other side, cam bands threaded through the bc and sta, dive in cold water so 7mm wetsuits, etc, 2x 2.75kg in the front ripcord pouches, 2x 1kg in each rear trim so no floaty stuff at 5m with 60bar in a 95cu Ali tank. Good times !!!!
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter And your so right about comfort, incredibly stable on the back, we often dive backpacks and SeaTec collars-gets some looks at dive sites I tell ya, check my channel...3 clips lol
It sure generated a lot of comments. Suppose I do an episode called "Stab Jacket or Back Plate - which is better?"? Do you think that would be interesting? Alec
Hi Alec, I'm new to your channel but loving the content. I'm not sure if you take requests, but would you consider doing a review of the OMS SmartStream Signature System? Would be great to hear your thoughts.
Hey Alec, thanks againg for all the stuff from you and Kevin of course 😉. Can you guys make a material about how much lift in a BC is needed for a particular type of diving or a particular size of diver? 😄
Unless that is a cosmetic finish, that appears to be a carbon fiber backplate. The biggest difference with backplates is the distribution of weight. Instead of having all lead around your weight around your waist, it puts some of the weight on your back and up around your shoulders.
Hi, Alec! I love your videos! I've learnt a lot from those. Thank you, and thanks to Kevin! Despite of the very small hungarian diving community (few thousand) I would like to make hungarian subtitles for some of the videos. I've already made one for the freezing regulator episode, but RUclips doesn't send notification about community subtitle submissions and it won't be accessible until you accept that. I'm wondering if you are ok with that. Keep up the good work!
Kevin tells me that RUclips has changed the rules regarding translations. Apparently, each time you make a translation you must send it to me for my approval before RUclips will post it. No problem. The current one is approved and you just have to do that extra step - send it to me and I'll get Kevin to do his thing. Alec
I suggest getting certified first before buying gear. Many students started Open Water class/pool and open water dives but, for various reasons, don't complete it. When you're certified, that's an achievement showing commitment and from there, decide on your gear purchases. Recommend watching video S06E01 What To Buy First/Next/Last, to help decide the order of items to get. Over your diving years, you many change from backplate to jacket to side mount and repeat. Thinking one piece of gear will last 30 years is wrong as new ideas, better construction or even stolen gear may happen. Look through my videos on purchases and don't get too distracted by the 'shiny' stuff. Basics first then decide your diving style, frequency and future goals. You have a long diving career so enjoy it and welcome to the underwater world.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Thank you for your guidance. I wasn't planning to buy any more gear until after getting certified. I am certified now and I'll probably look into getting a regulator next. I was mainly talking about when I go to get a BCD. Based on what you said, it sounds like I should start with a regular BCD first. I appreciate your help, and I'm really excited to keep diving!
@@johntheslider5802 ....you probably bought a BCD already. But if you haven't; I'd say get a backplate & wing system then practice tp use it, do many shore dives too. Some great instructors I know teach new divers in backplate & long hose use
make sure you are really well hydrated before a dive. If you don't need to pee after one, you probably didn't have enough water. In the extreme/sever case you can also look at some regulator gadget that have a small foam canister with water to add moisture back into your second stage. I had picked up a reg with that built in but ended selling it as I don't have dry mouth issue. They make the canister you can add to any existing reg. Update: found it www.apollosportsusa.com/bio-filter.html
Use a rebreather! That's one of the many advantages of Close Circuit Rebreathers (CCR). The gaz you breath is humid and warm, preventing dehydration and helping you stay warm. I know that you're looking for a different answer, but it's one way of preventing dry mouth underwater!
Hi Alec. Why is there a difference between the price of backplates and harnesses (with same specs) from different brands? Aren't all simple harness (without comfy pads and stuffs) made of nylon webbing? Aren't all aluminium backplates (for example) are made of 6061 Al alloy? Thanks for your videos, they're amazing. Greetings from Brazil.
Generally a backplate with equivalent functionality of a jacket style BCD. The benefit to backplates is customization for different dive profiles and conditions. Most backplates are aluminum but there are stainless steel, fibreglass and carbon fibre. Like many things, its what you want, can afford and know how to use so lots of options. If you want more detailed information, post questions on www.scubaboard.com where experts can answer you questions. Take care. A.
Hi Alex, I have searched your videos and can t find an answer to my question. I have a BCD from I believe the 80's it is a Sea Quest and it is basically a horse shoe wing with a plastic backplate. This type of set up seems to have disappeared and reappeared as the current backplate and wing. Did it really disappear to be reinvented or has it always been there in the shadows until TEC diving made it popular again with minor changes. It was recently tested along with A Sherwood Brute reg set up and I like the setup, would there be any reason I shouldn t use it?
Great timing on this question Gus. Tomorrow a new video is released showing my old Sea Quest for a BCD subject. As for using it, just age and deterioration are the big concerns. The CO2 release on mine sticks and the bladder has slow leaks all due to being 30 years old!! Best to get a new and totally safe BCD as just one Sea Quest gear issue could be very bad indeed. Hope you like tomorrows subject and see if yours looks like mine.
Very hard to answer that question Alex. Here are some considerations: age; last hydro test date, exterior coating, interior coating, does it have some historical value and more. In numbers, it's worth between $50 and $200 depending on the answer to all those questions. If you reach me at seahunter@vintagescuba.com, I'll try to help. Alec
Hi alec thanks for your movies here where im from Denmark in EU is a technical diving system what there is sugested if you ask around in local dive Clubs and the argument is versitility as the old divers Say you Onkyo have to buy your gear ones I understand you started diving wery early how did you get ind to diving as i understand wasn't diving wery wide spead i 1958 and you must only have ben 12 13 years old then
Sir, I had in mind to 'convert' my Scubapro Nighthawk wing (first models, bought in 98 or 99, not quite sure) with a back plate. Do you think it could be feasible?...and, just as an information, with backward fins you get less water in your mask, so you don't have to purge that often when youre tring to follow a backward fish...:) nice stt subject!
Aha! Fin backward to suck the water out of your mask. Never though of that!!! The Nighthawk should convert to a plate. You simply need to separate the air cell from the harness. Check first to be sure there are holes to attach the air cell to a plate. Maybe take it into an LDS and hold a plate on it to see how it would attach. Good luck. Alec
It can be a good long term setup if it fits your body and dive needs. Visit your local dive shop to check the material, attachment options and a chance to dive with others BP users who could help tune your rig. Good your thinking ahead Cory.
hello Alec, I have a question about the RDP table or dive computer calculations. Does the actual body weight or height matter on how long your bottom time is? Like for example, if your at 5'5'' and 120lbs versus 7'0" and 250lb... should the bottom time calculations still the same with those 2? or are you gonna adjust more or less bottom time? Thanks!
dive tables, and now computer, don't take weight/height into account (or even age, sex, etc...) and are just an average approximation. If you look at dive computers they have a personal index to increase your nitrogen affect, which you can choose for certain factor that may affect you - age, fat amount (which takes longer to clear of gaz), cold water, and Alec mentioned scares/surgery tissue as well. Many things affect each of us differently...
Generally a divers height is not a consideration, unless of course, he is so tall that it puts him into another, or would that be 2, depth categories! Can you imagine the calculations needed if your knees were in D and your head was in C? A group of divers, all identical height and weight (if that could be arranged) would each exhibit different levels of nitrogen absorption after an identical dive. The human body simply has too many variables to place a definitive number on every diver, every dive. The tables do not adjust for differences in the body size and neither should the diver. The best bet, and it is a gamble, is to avoid getting within 2 values of the NDL. In other words, don't push the table. Some divers do so with impunity. Others suffer consequences even if they don't exceed the limits. Take care. Alec
Alex, a dive store said they would not recommend less than 35-40 pounds of lift for an air cell. I'm an average recreational AOW diver. Is there an obvious reason why would they only recommend that much lift for me, a 195 pound diver?
How much lift you need depends on the buoyancy of your tanks, and how much lead you are slinging. There is a spreadsheet on Scubaboard where you put in your variables and it gives you an idea how much lift you will need, and how much droppable lead you need in case of a wing failure. But as a general rule subtract the weight of your backplate plus another 5lbs from the wing's lift. That number is the maximum negative buoyancy from tanks and lead that it can handle. Personally I dive a 35lbs wing, that handles 99% of diving, and the new slender ones don't have that much drag. About the only time you would want something larger for single tank diving would be if you are diving a really thick dry suit. I am also looking to put together a light weight warm water rig with an 18lbs wing. As I only need about 4-5lbs of weight when I am diving in water warm enough to use my shortie. I think I can easily cut a the dry weight of my rig as much as 50%, which will make it easier on my baggage allowance.
That is an odd recommendation. The lift you need depends on the type of diving you are doing. If all you are doing is tropical diving in a skin suit you don’t typically NEED more than an 18-25 lb wing. If you will use the wing for colder water you will likely need more, in the 30-35 lb range, assuming you are diving single 80 tank. Only reason you would need bigger wing is if you are diving very large tank or for some other reason need to have a lot of weight on you. Dive right in scuba has a BP/W system that come with small and large bladder and the vintage double hose wings are very compact. I use a VDH 35 lb wing as my go to wing and it is only about 1 in bigger than their 23 lb one.
There are many variables that affect the amount of weight you should have and the corresponding amount of buoyancy. There is no 'Rule of Thumb' nor any 'spreadsheet' that will substitute for your own experience and practice. I have seen 130-pound divers who needed a lot of weight to get down and and also 200-pound divers that were negative. There is simply no way to know without getting into the water. However, fortunately, within reason, the actual amount of weight and the amount of buoyancy isn't an definitive number. That is, you can have several pounds of extra weight without a lot of concern, assuming you have the buoyancy to overcome it. Having less than the needed weight is a bigger concern because that makes it difficult to descend and more critically, almost impossible to control your ascent. The bottom line is that you must take each of your diving situations, type of water, depth, type of expeosure suit and more into account to decide how much weight. Only experience will give you a final answer. The size of the buoyancy vest is less complicated if only because there are a finite number of choices. 25 to 35 pounds is pretty much the average size of a recreational diver vest. That amount should suit all typical recreational dive situations. I'm sorry to give such a long and somewhat indecisive answer, but that's the nature of the beast. Good luck. Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter The spreadsheet isn't meant to replace actually doing a weight check. It gives the most accurate numbers if you already know how much weight you need to neutral with your current rig. And allows you to adjust the numbers for your rig, for example going for an AL80 to a HP100, or AL80 doubles; going from air to trimix; or going from a lightweight BP to a heavier BP. It also estimates buoyancy for wing failures, and other factors for building safer diving rigs. It is a useful tool to use as it gives you starting points to work with, and from there you can refine your weighting needs. Now the rule of thumb for available lift is how much lift is left over after subtracting the first stage, and others parts that are negative on your rig.
For the longest time, I've always wondered why anyone would need such a large bladder for single tank recreational diving, especially if you're weighted correctly, you probably would need way less lift to get yourself neutrally or positively buoyant. And then one day I realized that all that lift comes into play, especially if you're a bigger guy, when you prefer to have a little more than just your head out of the water when you're on the surface.(eg. like you feel more comfortable with your shoulders out of the water on the surface.) Any portion of your body that is out of the water is not going to experience that upward force from Archimedes Principle and that's when a larger wing will give you the additional buoyancy to keep more of your body afloat above the waterline if that is your preference.
Unfortunately not as it is a single bag WING with independent harness. The BC user manual on page 23 does not mention plates: scubapro.johnsonoutdoors.eu/sites/eu_johnsonoutdoors-store/files/assets/misc/SC/S/SCP_productmanual_bc_07_2020_vO_en/SCP_productmanual_bc_07_2020_vO_en.pdf?_ga=2.149353334.1156586376.1616340761-979117745.1616340761 .
thanks, I've been wanting to try one to trim things down. My older bcd is already a mostly back wing and weight around 4.5# and folds down small for traveling, but I've wanted to put more weight on my back as I need to carry about 32# for my drysuit (steel tank) with 8# in the bcd to relieve my weight belt but can't put more as it won't float by itself (kayak diving).
Visited Toronto a couple of years ago and LOVED the poutine! On the topic of backplates, I do wish that the ole myth "backplates are technical kit" would end. Backplates can make a world of difference to the recreational diver. And I've never heard a single objection to backplate wings that wouldnt disappear if the diver knew how to size it, set it up, and dive it properly.
Alec, all dives are technical dives. Depends on the complexity of the dive of how many parameters and safety points you have to keep track of. Rebreather instructors have died in 3m pools . Twin 18L or single 10L on your back. It does not matter , but for me I always prefer twin 7L instead of single 12L. It is all about safety and trim. And I always prefer the longhose setup instead of the classic OCTO setup. And for the bcd..... my trusty 6 millimeter steel backplate will provide a lot of weight for most of salt waters and cylinder combinations so I do not have to wear lead. Drysuit is another story and this is where the weigh harness comes in. As for those " Safety Sally" that dump the weights..... I ask you all divers how many times have you dumped your weights?... Regards, Theodor
o all back plates push your face forward into the water when on the surface or is it only my brand? is there a trick to stop that from happening? when big waves come I swallow a lot of water without my snorkel and usually I'm really low on air waiting for the boat to come , sometimes takes awhile. Whats the trick without a snorkel? would a vest type be more suitable for me?
I find that if I don't inflate it to the max it alleviates that problem, try giving it a shot it may help. I personally find a backplate more comfortable but everyone is different.
@@nicholaswakeford2848nice I'll try that. Thats me too I always fill that bladder until safety valve almost bursts.. I do like wings though keeps me level underwater better. hate to have to go back to a vest style because of the surface position.
The tendency of backplates to push a diver face down when on the surface is one reason why they are not universally accepted. Its really just a matter of trim. If the weight distribution is correct, not just the right amount of weight, but also it's placement around the body and tank, that problem should disappear. Also, be sure that you use only the amount of inflation necessary to do the job, both underwater ad on the surface. If you over inflate the air cell, it will naturally be the highest point in the system. If the air cell is the highest point, the diver's face will be at the bottom. A properly weighted and trimmed plate (the 2 terms are different) should hold you vertically at the surface. The much more common stab jacket style BCD doesn't have that problem since the air cell wraps around the body, a bit like sitting inside an inner tube. If you have moved from a stab jacket to a backplate, it will take some adjustment and practice to get it right. Work in a pool with an experienced instructor for a short while. I think your problem will disappear. Good luck, Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter WOW Thanks a lot Alec, I was starting to regret buying the SP Hydros read all the reviews and they were all great. Don't get me wrong I love it underwater I stay Level (trim) underwater very nice. But at the surface the boat cant get there fast enough to get me out. How would you suggest I distribute the weight to start with? with a shorty I use only one of the big weights at on the back of the belt. I dont use the weight pockets it comes with they are on both sides. what are some suggestions and O will do some trial and error, of course in a pool the weighting is a little different. is there a formula from going from fresh to salt water to figure out how to adjust the weights? Thanks again Joe
Another trick that helps at the surface is to raise and bend your knees, like if you were sitting on a chair. Raising your knees slightly below your waist will help you a lot. It's more a technique (like not fully inflate your wing as others have correctly said) than anything else. You'll get used to it!
the 2nd shiny DiveRite backplate isn't "chrome" like he said; it is highly polished stainless steel. Although there is no real advantage to it being polished over a matt finish; polishing costs more to do, but gives it bling to sell for a higher price, yet shows it's annoying scratches more.
However, if you are traveling with your equipment, you are now traveling with 10 lbs that you would not have had in your bag before. There is a trade off. I have had the Scubapro Nighthawk for over 10 years and it suited me well. Of course I am not doing technical dives.
that's a good point, but I think they have lightweight plates for that reason (like the plastic one he's showing ?). Still they don't fold like some lightweight fabric one I use as well...
Steel is less dense that lead, about 7 to 11 ratio. A 10lbs steel backplate will NOT take 10lbs off your belt. More like 6-7lbs off your belt. Still, it IS weight off your belt. Just not a 1-for-1 relationship.
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Techy here, I love my backplates, even for recreational single tank and instruction all the way to cave and deep ccr/twinset stuff, one tool that does everything vs tons of bcds for each use.
I'm a relatively new recreational diver, started with a used AquaLung Wave jacket BC then bought a stainless backplate with a 30# wing over the summer. What a difference! The bulk of the weight being spread over the lungs immediately improved my trim, I don't feel like the Michelin man, and the harness with crotch strap keeps the system tightly in place. Unless you're super short or tall it's basically a once size fits all system. Add to that it's cheaper ($350US at DGX) and you can remove the bladder from the wing to repair or replace rather than throwing out the whole system. After about a dozen dives I'm surprised more rec divers don't use them!
The wing has its advantages but the stab offers things that a recreational diver wants - lots of pockets for example. The stab is generally more comfortable as well, particularly for skinny divers and for ladies. And it takes less "adjusting" to get the proper trim both in the water and on the surface. The stab also gives you more options for weight placement.
I'm glad you've got your system working for you.
Alec
Now for the long awaited long hose discussion. The suspense is mounting.
Wow Alek you are a hell of a comunicator .. so fluid and clear in concept as in timing is your speach . Think y heard that you had being teacher and instructor but many teachers cant deliver such clear concepts in such limited time . Quite remarcable . Keep it up !!
Thanks for your kind comments and support.
Alec
Another great video, Alec. I'm a Tec diver with many years diving under my belt and I always tune in. There's always a gem or three to learn from you, sir!
Thanks Harry.
Alec
I really admire your enthusiasm!
Thanks Ridder, I try.
Thanks again Alec, great post. I keep mentioning your channels to all my friends and students. Keep up the good work!
I make only some 20 true technical dives a year. The rest are recreational or training dives. I switched to a ‘technical’ configuration (wing, long hose, 2 first stages etc.) for all my dives some years ago. Not only because I want to be fully familiar with the total system when a make a tough dive but also because I experienced a wing system (and Hogarthian configuration) as far more convenient, comfortable and simple than a BCD “jacket” with octopus system. Now, I accept this is personal choice and I don’t want to force anything to anyone. But the strange thing is: all my “recreational diving” students compare what I wear to what they have and the all say: “I want what you have too! I want a wing, longhose etc.” but somehow the sales in the various dive shops convinced them to buy jackets first “because everybody buys a jacket BCD first ....and wings are for technical divers...”.
I don’t see why people think this sort of configuration is only for technical diving and I don’t understand why people sell wings as something special? It is not. Wings (and Hogarthian like configurations) are absolutely great for recreational diving, light for travel and modular. And why not for beginners? If you keep it simple, it can even be cheaper!
So, my point is a modular wing system may be developed by technical divers but it is for everybody!
well said, I actually know quite a few people now who did their OW class in a Hogarthian/DIR set up and those people develop good skills way easier, it seems like.
My thoughts exactly. I don't do any technical diving and I dive a BP/W. It's pretty much all I've known since open water. People comment to me all the time about how "BP/Ws are for technical divers". That's sooooo far from the truth. I try to convince them to try one and they simply wont. I don't get the attachment to a jacket.
For my birthday I’m going to get my scuba Diving certification, you have been a big help with all of you videos on what to get and not go get plus all of your tips.
I've used an ali backplate and harness for 3 years now and I'll never go back to a jacket BCD. The harness is so much more comfortable and secure, and the rig is much lighter for travel. In warm water I use a single tank adapter with an 18lb Apeks wing, and for cold water at home I have a 45lb wing with twin 12 litres. Whichever one I'm wearing I know the fit is going to be perfect and knife, back-up light and everything else will be in the same place.
Mr. Peirce, outstanding! As usual you kick out good non biased approach when giving advice, tips and tricks. Guys n gals like you are everything the dive industry should stand for. No peer pressure, no condemning, just good solid advice for novice to the experienced diver. No looong drawn out peer pressure fueled sermons, no condemnation of one style to another just solid advice. As a commercial diver and everything in between I was privaledged to learn and train under guys like you back when I was cutting my teeth in my dive career so Keep it up! We live in a social media age unlike back when I started in 91 so Lotta new divers benefit from Industry leaders like you.. My crew and I always enjoy your material. Btw you ain't lying about those SP Seawing Nova's. Just picked up a pair. They are a dream after years of wearing my old concrete shoe jetfins🤣
Thanks for watching and for your support.
Yeah. I don't think the Novas will work on the job. Great when out for fun though!
Take care down there.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter yep, some jobs in the ( the muck) running umbilicals we don't even wear fins, just our boots! Lol. But for reg sport diving with the wife they're a dream! FYI they're even decent for techy stuff when I'm running BP & sidemount configurations with frog kicks, and other modified finning techniques even backing up with some adaptation. Anyways if we're ever up in your neck of woods we will reach out and visit some of those shops you feature. Dive safe and keep those videos popping out!
yep, love my Seawing Nova - tip I picked from Alec.
Backplate and wing is NOT for techdivers only;) its for all kinds of dives and you can enjoy it even if you want to make shallow 5 meter dives at our Swedish westcoast looking at colourful fishes, with a 7 liter steel bottle. Nice video- keep your good work sir! :)
im an AOW diver and use a backplate and wing. its a fantastic system. also makes being in trim easier and better.
Certainly all divers can use a backplate and wing BCD. However, most new divers learn using a stab jacket and almost all rental scuba gear worldwide uses a stab jacket style.
The reason is simple. While the backplate & wing offers some advantages, they come at a price. It is not a simple "strap it on and go diving". It takes some education and some practice to learn how to get your weight placement correct so you have good trim, particularly at the surface where the natural tendency of a backplate & wing is to float you face down.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter I thing the face down problem would vanish if ppl would be forced to setup the rig in a correct way. But I must say I'm a cold water diver so allready need more weight which results in a steel backplate and lead mounted directly on the backplate which results in a more balanced setup.
I also think the price is a big factor why wings are not that common on vacation divers and bases. I mean a good wing costs about 200$/€ and you have to buy the backplate, lead pockets and so on. But I love to adjust my system to all my needs and can drop the crap I don't need.
Thanks for the great tips, Alec!
Thanks for watching.
Alec
what a cool thing, I have just been diving with Matt and Dan a couple weeks ago in Newfoundland. Looking forward to see more.
Can you make a video about putting a wing, backplate and harness together
That's a great idea.
ruclips.net/video/G4G7Do4Q4Kk/видео.html There are several videos on youtube.
@@ALwinDigital great video, thanks!
Thank you Mr Peirce for taking the time
Reminds me of the old hard pack we used before BCD's came along Keep up the great videos.
At one time all tanks were held on by a single hard plastic or metal back pack. It was handy as they usually had a handle for carrying the tank.
Alec
Alec Peirce Scuba thanks Alec. I actually own several of the old hard pack. And some old single hose regulators. There on display at are local dive shop.
Now we know we have at least 3yrs of videos left now that he's talking tech diving.
I'd love to see him talk about the DIR setup that agencies like GUE, IANTD, RAID, etc use. I would like to know what a recreational diver thinks about that, it'd be neat to have an outside perspective. Could help new divers
BPW (back plate wing) setups can definitely used for recreational diving. And the DIR philosophy can also apply to recreational diving, though you don't have to necessarily follow the entire philosophy and approach strictly. A BPW setup using a one piece harness keeps the front of your body free of clutter while many jacket BCs (even where the air bladder is only on the back, aka wing style jacket BC) can have a large wrap around pocket, weight pocket, etc. at the waist. BPW setups can also make it easier for divers to dive in proper horizontal trim position. With a steel BP, you can also potentially wear less weights on the belt, and the steel BP will distribute weight more on your back.
I'm a rec diver, I went straight for the BPW setup when I bought my own gear. Jacket bcd pockets are useless for storing things and accessing them underwater, but they still take up a lot of space in front of you, and then torches and reels and camera have to go yet over that bulk. BPW gets rid of that waste of space that just adds drag.
DIR has many good rules about diving safely. It's worth going through them and at the very least think about how your setup measures up to them and consciously justify why some of the rules may not apply to your type of diving.
Hey Alec, thank you for these very interesting and informative videos. I love your channel. Sea Hunt is also the reason I dive. Although I got started later in life, the fascination of diving has been with me since the 60's, seeing and hearing about the changes and progression of the sport has only made me respect the old skool divers even more and drawn me deeper into the sport. So thanks, and keep on keeping on.
Thanks for watching Gee.
I'm glad you're enjoying my videos.
Alec
I recently got an OMS back plate harness system and I love it! Got a 45lbs cell and even hooked up a twin set . Don’t even need weights cause the back plate weights 5 pounds and that’s al the weight I need to sink.Loving it!!!!. Good video 🤙
I'm glad it's working.
Alec
Hey Alec! Love the videos, was wondering if you could do a video about putting together a backplate and wing setup. Cheers
It's on the list Cameron. Until then, there are lots of good channels to find that information. Look at LakeHickoryScuba as he does a lot of tech work.
Thanks for watching.
Alec.
JUST GOT a wing style bc, and love your insights about diving knowledge~~ thank you !!!! loving it
Glad it's working.
Alec
Hi Alec! Just wanted to say a huge thank you for all of your advice videos on what to look for in regs, BCs and everything else- it was so helpful when I finally decided to buy my own regulators after 4 years of diving on rentals now. I start my Divemaster training next summer in Crete, any tips?
Listen to everybody but mainly your own common sense.
Alec
Wow, thats was gr8 tips on backplates. In fact I just got a backplate. Thx 4 sharing on Utube.
Glad it was helpful!
Hi Alec, Watched and enjoyed backplates episode. 👍
Thanks again Mark.
Alec
The folks at Dan's Dive Shop are great. Bought my regs and a few other things there.
Good to hear Sean. Say hi to them on your next visit. It was great visiting them and shooting there.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Will do. All the best over the holidays!
Informative and entertaining. Thanks for making and sharing this video.
You are welcome. Thanks for watching.
A.
Hi Alec, That White Arrow back plate caught my attention, do you recommend it? I think it is a good idea for a traveling set. How much? Do you sell it in your store?
That backplate was at Dan's Dive Shop in St. Chatherines, Ontario. They are experts in backplate gear and diving so best to contact them at: dansdiveshop.ca. Tell them Alec sent you.
I went to a backplate this year... so much better. But I do miss the pockets of my other BCDs.
I love pockets too but a backplate can have accessory pockets attached or get a leg strap pocket.
Another great video Alec. Ever since I took a Solo Diver & Sidemount Diver course from SDI a few years ago, I’ve been using a lot of Technical gear & ideas to improve my diving skills such as redundancy (2 of everything), rule of thirds, etc. Maybe there’s another Scuba Tip video on that subject for you. Also, why not do a video from Dan Humble’s DTTC (Dive Tech & Training Center) here in Eastern Ontario located in Mallorytown near Brockville, On. I think you know Dan quite well. His Dive shop is 1st class and I know he would be honoured to host such an event.
Should not be diving alone~ Just saying...
I'd be very happy to do a video at DTTC. I'll speak to him to see when he's planning to move closer!
Kidding of course, although the distance to Dan's shop is a consideration.
I do travel that way occasionally so I'll see if we can organize something.
Alec
Nice video, thanks for the tips! In the intro of the video, the top-right photo shows you demonstrating the Kraken smart phone housing. I don't remember watching that and it interests me very much. Is it from a future video or have I missed it?
Hi Andreas. That thumbnail was from video; Scuba Tech Tips: Let's Ban Underwater Photography - S07E08, ruclips.net/video/15DI6SLs-pA/видео.html
It was a tonge-in-cheek discussion I hope you like.
Thanks for watching and being so observant.
Alec
I don't know where you attach your air cell, but I bolt my wing through the 2 holes in the middle. The ones on the edge I use for accessories.
Good talk though.
Generally your are quite right.
Alec
Love it ... i'd suggest BPs are great for rec diving too... they are great becuase modularity mean you replace stuff that wears out.... imagine a car where the wheels were welded on... breaks or tires are old?? ok time to get a new car... also you can go dive Dry w/ double steel100s on victoria then next week key largo in your speedos w/ an al60... you can make your system perfect for each dive... vs having a jacket that is kinda good most of the time... also you can mix and match what you like, if it fits 2" web it fits you rig...need an extra hole? well grab your dirll... they are also great if you are not an average shape good luck finding a jacket if you are short and curvy.. or a bit asemetrical ( like we all are) everything is adjustable... Id say that if you are spending more than $500 on a BC a plate sytem will save you money in the long term... the traspack is a nice middle ground consept to talk about too ... it could be cool to walk folks though the spectrum of a transpack to a soft harnes on travel Al plate to full tech 10# steel plate with doubles and double cells and stages.. ( you know for diving though a hole in the ice to access a cave at 200' ,at altitude, at night, to salave gold from inside a mini sub...)
Back plates are a growing area of gear for fun divers, not just cave and tec. Like most purchases you get a basic, jacket BC, then with experience upgrade to BP setup and evolve and tune it over more dives. Thanks for sharing Mars.
I dive a Zeagle Ranger with a 5 lbs Dive Rite backplate bolted in with the dive rite s.t.a on the other side, cam bands threaded through the bc and sta, dive in cold water
so 7mm wetsuits, etc, 2x 2.75kg in the front ripcord pouches, 2x 1kg in each rear trim so no floaty stuff at 5m with 60bar in a 95cu Ali tank. Good times !!!!
Sounds like a super setup for cold water. Thanks for sharing.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter And your so right about comfort, incredibly stable on the back, we often dive backpacks and SeaTec collars-gets some looks
at dive sites I tell ya, check my channel...3 clips lol
It is the backplate and wing not just the backplate. They are very modular and minimalist. I also have a zeagle I use for vacations.
I would like to hear more on this topic. Thanks.
It sure generated a lot of comments.
Suppose I do an episode called "Stab Jacket or Back Plate - which is better?"?
Do you think that would be interesting?
Alec
Thank you for sharing some info!!
You are so welcome!
Hi Alec, I'm new to your channel but loving the content. I'm not sure if you take requests, but would you consider doing a review of the OMS SmartStream Signature System? Would be great to hear your thoughts.
Hi Siobhan, I do very few product reviews (ie Tech Tips), so please check out "Simply Scuba", they have 100's of reviews.
Hey Alec, thanks againg for all the stuff from you and Kevin of course 😉. Can you guys make a material about how much lift in a BC is needed for a particular type of diving or a particular size of diver? 😄
Great suggestion! Added to my ideas list for a future video.
A.
Unless that is a cosmetic finish, that appears to be a carbon fiber backplate. The biggest difference with backplates is the distribution of weight. Instead of having all lead around your weight around your waist, it puts some of the weight on your back and up around your shoulders.
That is probably its biggest practical benefit.
Alec
Great Video. Very Informative. Can you tell me the brand of the 'plastic' backplate you are holding, please?
It's a White Arrow made in Italy. Don't know ay more but can call Dan's Dive Shop for more information. dansdiveshop.ca
Hi, Alec! I love your videos! I've learnt a lot from those. Thank you, and thanks to Kevin! Despite of the very small hungarian diving community (few thousand) I would like to make hungarian subtitles for some of the videos. I've already made one for the freezing regulator episode, but RUclips doesn't send notification about community subtitle submissions and it won't be accessible until you accept that. I'm wondering if you are ok with that. Keep up the good work!
I'll send this to Kevin. He's the tech guy. I don't see why not.
Thanks for your support. I hope you've picked up something from my videos.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Thank you very much, Alec! Kevin accepted the translation! I'll start to translate the next video soon.
Kevin tells me that RUclips has changed the rules regarding translations. Apparently, each time you make a translation you must send it to me for my approval before RUclips will post it. No problem. The current one is approved and you just have to do that extra step - send it to me and I'll get Kevin to do his thing.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Thank you very much, the next translation is waiting for your approval! It is the "How a piston regulator works" episode.
I'm very new to diving. (I haven't even been certified yet.) Do you think it's a good idea to go for a backplate first, or wait until later on?
I suggest getting certified first before buying gear. Many students started Open Water class/pool and open water dives but, for various reasons, don't complete it. When you're certified, that's an achievement showing commitment and from there, decide on your gear purchases. Recommend watching video S06E01 What To Buy First/Next/Last, to help decide the order of items to get. Over your diving years, you many change from backplate to jacket to side mount and repeat. Thinking one piece of gear will last 30 years is wrong as new ideas, better construction or even stolen gear may happen. Look through my videos on purchases and don't get too distracted by the 'shiny' stuff. Basics first then decide your diving style, frequency and future goals. You have a long diving career so enjoy it and welcome to the underwater world.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Thank you for your guidance. I wasn't planning to buy any more gear until after getting certified. I am certified now and I'll probably look into getting a regulator next. I was mainly talking about when I go to get a BCD. Based on what you said, it sounds like I should start with a regular BCD first. I appreciate your help, and I'm really excited to keep diving!
@@johntheslider5802 ....you probably bought a BCD already. But if you haven't; I'd say get a backplate & wing system then practice tp use it, do many shore dives too. Some great instructors I know teach new divers in backplate & long hose use
Hi Alec, thanks for the great vid. Would you mind going through some methods to reduce dry mouth from the dried air in scuba cylinders?
make sure you are really well hydrated before a dive. If you don't need to pee after one, you probably didn't have enough water. In the extreme/sever case you can also look at some regulator gadget that have a small foam canister with water to add moisture back into your second stage. I had picked up a reg with that built in but ended selling it as I don't have dry mouth issue. They make the canister you can add to any existing reg.
Update: found it www.apollosportsusa.com/bio-filter.html
@@alaind831 There are 2 types of divers:
Thems than pee in there wet suit
and
Thems that lie about it.
(SIC intended)
Use a rebreather! That's one of the many advantages of Close Circuit Rebreathers (CCR). The gaz you breath is humid and warm, preventing dehydration and helping you stay warm. I know that you're looking for a different answer, but it's one way of preventing dry mouth underwater!
@@fbauer4368 unless you're a drysuit diver (like I am now) and you don't have a choice :)
@@alaind831 Well if your in a dry suit then I suppose you are immune to that old joke. But thanks for biting.
Hi Alec. Why is there a difference between the price of backplates and harnesses (with same specs) from different brands? Aren't all simple harness (without comfy pads and stuffs) made of nylon webbing? Aren't all aluminium backplates (for example) are made of 6061 Al alloy?
Thanks for your videos, they're amazing. Greetings from Brazil.
Generally a backplate with equivalent functionality of a jacket style BCD. The benefit to backplates is customization for different dive profiles and conditions. Most backplates are aluminum but there are stainless steel, fibreglass and carbon fibre. Like many things, its what you want, can afford and know how to use so lots of options. If you want more detailed information, post questions on www.scubaboard.com where experts can answer you questions. Take care.
A.
Hi Alex, I have searched your videos and can t find an answer to my question. I have a BCD from I believe the 80's it is a Sea Quest and it is basically a horse shoe wing with a plastic backplate. This type of set up seems to have disappeared and reappeared as the current backplate and wing. Did it really disappear to be reinvented or has it always been there in the shadows until TEC diving made it popular again with minor changes. It was recently tested along with A Sherwood Brute reg set up and I like the setup, would there be any reason I shouldn t use it?
Great timing on this question Gus. Tomorrow a new video is released showing my old Sea Quest for a BCD subject. As for using it, just age and deterioration are the big concerns. The CO2 release on mine sticks and the bladder has slow leaks all due to being 30 years old!! Best to get a new and totally safe BCD as just one Sea Quest gear issue could be very bad indeed. Hope you like tomorrows subject and see if yours looks like mine.
Thanks for the reply, @@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter , mine must be a little newer as it has the low pressure hose for the reg. hookup.
Hey Alec,
I got an old 1956 US Navy cylinder from my dive shop, do you know how much an old tank like that sells for?
Thanks
How much did you pay for it? Guess what? That's what it goes for. :-)
Donovan C. Young well it was going to be scrapped so he gave it to me
Very hard to answer that question Alex. Here are some considerations: age; last hydro test date, exterior coating, interior coating, does it have some historical value and more.
In numbers, it's worth between $50 and $200 depending on the answer to all those questions.
If you reach me at seahunter@vintagescuba.com, I'll try to help.
Alec
Hi alec thanks for your movies here where im from Denmark in EU is a technical diving system what there is sugested if you ask around in local dive Clubs and the argument is versitility as the old divers Say you Onkyo have to buy your gear ones
I understand you started diving wery early how did you get ind to diving as i understand wasn't diving wery wide spead i 1958 and you must only have ben 12 13 years old then
Sir, I had in mind to 'convert' my Scubapro Nighthawk wing (first models, bought in 98 or 99, not quite sure) with a back plate. Do you think it could be feasible?...and, just as an information, with backward fins you get less water in your mask, so you don't have to purge that often when youre tring to follow a backward fish...:) nice stt subject!
Aha! Fin backward to suck the water out of your mask. Never though of that!!!
The Nighthawk should convert to a plate. You simply need to separate the air cell from the harness. Check first to be sure there are holes to attach the air cell to a plate. Maybe take it into an LDS and hold a plate on it to see how it would attach.
Good luck.
Alec
I'm thinking of getting a back plate for my first bc that way it can grow as I grow does it sound like a good idea?
It can be a good long term setup if it fits your body and dive needs. Visit your local dive shop to check the material, attachment options and a chance to dive with others BP users who could help tune your rig. Good your thinking ahead Cory.
hello Alec,
I have a question about the RDP table or dive computer calculations. Does the actual body weight or height matter on how long your bottom time is? Like for example, if your at 5'5'' and 120lbs versus 7'0" and 250lb... should the bottom time calculations still the same with those 2? or are you gonna adjust more or less bottom time?
Thanks!
dive tables, and now computer, don't take weight/height into account (or even age, sex, etc...) and are just an average approximation. If you look at dive computers they have a personal index to increase your nitrogen affect, which you can choose for certain factor that may affect you - age, fat amount (which takes longer to clear of gaz), cold water, and Alec mentioned scares/surgery tissue as well. Many things affect each of us differently...
@@alaind831 well said.. thanks a lot!
Generally a divers height is not a consideration, unless of course, he is so tall that it puts him into another, or would that be 2, depth categories! Can you imagine the calculations needed if your knees were in D and your head was in C?
A group of divers, all identical height and weight (if that could be arranged) would each exhibit different levels of nitrogen absorption after an identical dive. The human body simply has too many variables to place a definitive number on every diver, every dive.
The tables do not adjust for differences in the body size and neither should the diver.
The best bet, and it is a gamble, is to avoid getting within 2 values of the NDL. In other words, don't push the table. Some divers do so with impunity. Others suffer consequences even if they don't exceed the limits.
Take care.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter on point... thanks!
Alex, a dive store said they would not recommend less than 35-40 pounds of lift for an air cell. I'm an average recreational AOW diver. Is there an obvious reason why would they only recommend that much lift for me, a 195 pound diver?
How much lift you need depends on the buoyancy of your tanks, and how much lead you are slinging. There is a spreadsheet on Scubaboard where you put in your variables and it gives you an idea how much lift you will need, and how much droppable lead you need in case of a wing failure.
But as a general rule subtract the weight of your backplate plus another 5lbs from the wing's lift. That number is the maximum negative buoyancy from tanks and lead that it can handle.
Personally I dive a 35lbs wing, that handles 99% of diving, and the new slender ones don't have that much drag. About the only time you would want something larger for single tank diving would be if you are diving a really thick dry suit. I am also looking to put together a light weight warm water rig with an 18lbs wing. As I only need about 4-5lbs of weight when I am diving in water warm enough to use my shortie. I think I can easily cut a the dry weight of my rig as much as 50%, which will make it easier on my baggage allowance.
That is an odd recommendation. The lift you need depends on the type of diving you are doing. If all you are doing is tropical diving in a skin suit you don’t typically NEED more than an 18-25 lb wing. If you will use the wing for colder water you will likely need more, in the 30-35 lb range, assuming you are diving single 80 tank. Only reason you would need bigger wing is if you are diving very large tank or for some other reason need to have a lot of weight on you. Dive right in scuba has a BP/W system that come with small and large bladder and the vintage double hose wings are very compact. I use a VDH 35 lb wing as my go to wing and it is only about 1 in bigger than their 23 lb one.
There are many variables that affect the amount of weight you should have and the corresponding amount of buoyancy.
There is no 'Rule of Thumb' nor any 'spreadsheet' that will substitute for your own experience and practice.
I have seen 130-pound divers who needed a lot of weight to get down and and also 200-pound divers that were negative. There is simply no way to know without getting into the water.
However, fortunately, within reason, the actual amount of weight and the amount of buoyancy isn't an definitive number. That is, you can have several pounds of extra weight without a lot of concern, assuming you have the buoyancy to overcome it. Having less than the needed weight is a bigger concern because that makes it difficult to descend and more critically, almost impossible to control your ascent.
The bottom line is that you must take each of your diving situations, type of water, depth, type of expeosure suit and more into account to decide how much weight. Only experience will give you a final answer.
The size of the buoyancy vest is less complicated if only because there are a finite number of choices. 25 to 35 pounds is pretty much the average size of a recreational diver vest. That amount should suit all typical recreational dive situations.
I'm sorry to give such a long and somewhat indecisive answer, but that's the nature of the beast.
Good luck.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter The spreadsheet isn't meant to replace actually doing a weight check. It gives the most accurate numbers if you already know how much weight you need to neutral with your current rig. And allows you to adjust the numbers for your rig, for example going for an AL80 to a HP100, or AL80 doubles; going from air to trimix; or going from a lightweight BP to a heavier BP. It also estimates buoyancy for wing failures, and other factors for building safer diving rigs. It is a useful tool to use as it gives you starting points to work with, and from there you can refine your weighting needs.
Now the rule of thumb for available lift is how much lift is left over after subtracting the first stage, and others parts that are negative on your rig.
For the longest time, I've always wondered why anyone would need such a large bladder for single tank recreational diving, especially if you're weighted correctly, you probably would need way less lift to get yourself neutrally or positively buoyant. And then one day I realized that all that lift comes into play, especially if you're a bigger guy, when you prefer to have a little more than just your head out of the water when you're on the surface.(eg. like you feel more comfortable with your shoulders out of the water on the surface.) Any portion of your body that is out of the water is not going to experience that upward force from Archimedes Principle and that's when a larger wing will give you the additional buoyancy to keep more of your body afloat above the waterline if that is your preference.
Hello. I have a question whether Scubapro Seahawk can be fitted with an aluminum or steel plate?
Unfortunately not as it is a single bag WING with independent harness. The BC user manual on page 23 does not mention plates: scubapro.johnsonoutdoors.eu/sites/eu_johnsonoutdoors-store/files/assets/misc/SC/S/SCP_productmanual_bc_07_2020_vO_en/SCP_productmanual_bc_07_2020_vO_en.pdf?_ga=2.149353334.1156586376.1616340761-979117745.1616340761 .
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter Thank you very much
thanks, I've been wanting to try one to trim things down. My older bcd is already a mostly back wing and weight around 4.5# and folds down small for traveling, but I've wanted to put more weight on my back as I need to carry about 32# for my drysuit (steel tank) with 8# in the bcd to relieve my weight belt but can't put more as it won't float by itself (kayak diving).
Do it, you won't look back!
Is putting chilie on a plate a Canadian thing?
Poutine is the great Canadian treat from Quebec. Fresh cut fries, cheese curds and beef gravy, mmm good. Try it.
Alec
Visited Toronto a couple of years ago and LOVED the poutine!
On the topic of backplates, I do wish that the ole myth "backplates are technical kit" would end. Backplates can make a world of difference to the recreational diver. And I've never heard a single objection to backplate wings that wouldnt disappear if the diver knew how to size it, set it up, and dive it properly.
Just a small point. You don't tie the air bladder onto the backplate. The screws that go through metal grommets in the wing (bladder) to the tank.
Noted and thanks for that.
A
I'm 135 kg my high 173 my waist 54 inches I wont to use back plate bcd
My question is what is the wait of back plate is fit for me?
Many big divers like these for the custom fit and no waist squeeze. Kevin can use a backplate and he looks like a whale in the water.
what about soft backplates .. ?
They are an option but hard plates are the most popular and I try to limit these to under 60 minutes.
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter 60 minutes...?
nice video Thanks.
Thanks for watching.
Alec
I am looking for the show when you covered dry throat issues...can you help a guy out??
Either have a glass of beer after your dive, or flip over on your back every now and then to swallow =)
Alec, all dives are technical dives. Depends on the complexity of the dive of how many parameters and safety points you have to keep track of. Rebreather instructors have died in 3m pools . Twin 18L or single 10L on your back. It does not matter , but for me I always prefer twin 7L instead of single 12L. It is all about safety and trim. And I always prefer the longhose setup instead of the classic OCTO setup. And for the bcd..... my trusty 6 millimeter steel backplate will provide a lot of weight for most of salt waters and cylinder combinations so I do not have to wear lead. Drysuit is another story and this is where the weigh harness comes in. As for those " Safety Sally" that dump the weights..... I ask you all divers how many times have you dumped your weights?...
Regards,
Theodor
Were can u get plastic backplate
rob woodall a good dive shop that caters to tec diving should have them. If all else fails diveright or divers supply should have them.
Why would you want a plastic backplate? If you want lightweight, get an aluminium or carbon BP.
What kind of monster puts chili on a plate???
Just kidding of course, great video, thanks.
Thanks for watching Two Watt.
o all back plates push your face forward into the water when on the surface or is it only my brand? is there a trick to stop that from happening? when big waves come I swallow a lot of water without my snorkel and usually I'm really low on air waiting for the boat to come , sometimes takes awhile. Whats the trick without a snorkel? would a vest type be more suitable for me?
I find that if I don't inflate it to the max it alleviates that problem, try giving it a shot it may help. I personally find a backplate more comfortable but everyone is different.
@@nicholaswakeford2848nice I'll try that. Thats me too I always fill that bladder until safety valve almost bursts.. I do like wings though keeps me level underwater better. hate to have to go back to a vest style because of the surface position.
The tendency of backplates to push a diver face down when on the surface is one reason why they are not universally accepted.
Its really just a matter of trim. If the weight distribution is correct, not just the right amount of weight, but also it's placement around the body and tank, that problem should disappear. Also, be sure that you use only the amount of inflation necessary to do the job, both underwater ad on the surface. If you over inflate the air cell, it will naturally be the highest point in the system. If the air cell is the highest point, the diver's face will be at the bottom.
A properly weighted and trimmed plate (the 2 terms are different) should hold you vertically at the surface.
The much more common stab jacket style BCD doesn't have that problem since the air cell wraps around the body, a bit like sitting inside an inner tube. If you have moved from a stab jacket to a backplate, it will take some adjustment and practice to get it right. Work in a pool with an experienced instructor for a short while. I think your problem will disappear.
Good luck,
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter WOW Thanks a lot Alec, I was starting to regret buying the SP Hydros read all the reviews and they were all great. Don't get me wrong I love it underwater I stay Level (trim) underwater very nice. But at the surface the boat cant get there fast enough to get me out. How would you suggest I distribute the weight to start with? with a shorty I use only one of the big weights at on the back of the belt. I dont use the weight pockets it comes with they are on both sides. what are some suggestions and O will do some trial and error, of course in a pool the weighting is a little different. is there a formula from going from fresh to salt water to figure out how to adjust the weights? Thanks again Joe
Another trick that helps at the surface is to raise and bend your knees, like if you were sitting on a chair. Raising your knees slightly below your waist will help you a lot. It's more a technique (like not fully inflate your wing as others have correctly said) than anything else. You'll get used to it!
Hmmm back plate or parachute, which should I choose ;)
I want to see this guy (Alec) and Alan Alda (the guy from MASH)...meet and just hang out and talk about life for a while on camera!
You have a weird mind - I like it though.
Alec
@@AlecPeirceScuba_SeaHunter what's your definition of weird Alec? Lol
the 2nd shiny DiveRite backplate isn't "chrome" like he said; it is highly polished stainless steel. Although there is no real advantage to it being polished over a matt finish; polishing costs more to do, but gives it bling to sell for a higher price, yet shows it's annoying scratches more.
Thanks for the clarification. I do love chrome on all my scuba gear.
A
However, if you are traveling with your equipment, you are now traveling with 10 lbs that you would not have had in your bag before. There is a trade off. I have had the Scubapro Nighthawk for over 10 years and it suited me well. Of course I am not doing technical dives.
that's a good point, but I think they have lightweight plates for that reason (like the plastic one he's showing ?). Still they don't fold like some lightweight fabric one I use as well...
Steel is less dense that lead, about 7 to 11 ratio. A 10lbs steel backplate will NOT take 10lbs off your belt. More like 6-7lbs off your belt. Still, it IS weight off your belt. Just not a 1-for-1 relationship.
Quite right.
Using a back plate will require you to re-think your weight requirements. It's not a big difference but it's worth checking.
Alec