'President Joseph Has Translated a Portion': Solving the Mystery of the Kinderhook Plates
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- 2011 FAIR Conference Presentation by Don Bradley. In this presentation Bradley discusses the Kinderhook Plates and sheds new light on understanding what Joseph Smith meant when he supposedly said to have "translated" a portion of the bogus plates.
I am very grateful for people who take the time to stop, think, and examine all the evidence.
@@jacobreeves3110 The history of medicine, science, and, archaeology are littered with experts who were wrong. Not everyone sees the evidence in the same light.
@@jacobreeves3110 Without knowing what cities you are referring to and the corresponding city names in the book of Mormon it is hard to give an answer. My only question would be did those cities exist when the BOM was translated? Tad Callister's book , A Case for the Book of Mormon, deals with the book View of the Hebrews as well as other issues in chapter four. It might be a good book to read if you want to get another side to the story.
Fantastic work. Bravo 👏
Thank you for uploading this, the editing is getting much better (sound, pictures from slideshow, focus...).
The reality of the Kinderhook plates issue (or non issue) shows how far anti-mormons will go to create controversy when there is none.
Love Don Bradley. Get him to speak next time too!
Based on watching this video, The Kinderhook Plates were used in an attempt to trick Joseph Smith, and not for any other purpose. Not to mention take advantage of Joseph's good nature to always help when asked. He was asked to translate them and he saw characters on the plates that looked similar to characters which he had learned and kept a GAEL (a guide book) of. By this account Joseph was not truly deceived with his ability to translate. He was translating on a casual basis, which he did, honestly. Even after translating Joseph did not try to obtain the Kinderhook plates, nor claimed that they were doctrine, or a valid finding. Therefore they were of no importance to his work for the Lord, or to himself, and for good reason.
Take note that in order for one to create the Kinderhook plates, they would have had to copy characters, or some characters, from a valid source so Joseph Smith would have been able to identify anything on them, otherwise Joseph would have not found any correlation to the characters on them.
It's plain and simple. Joseph was asked to help where he could, and he did so. Keep in mind that the source of the Kinderhook plates claimed to be a lair in stating that the plates were forged by said source. Therefore if this translation were not true, it'd be because the source was not true.
Joseph Smith is a true prophet, seer, and revelator. Believe it or not.
+IExposeMormonism , No matter how many times you, or I, or anyone else goes back and forth on the LDS church, the end result will never change. Those who truly believe in God will do their best to follow the gospel under the direction of God, and his servants, to become a good people and to do good works in the world for its inhabitants. Those who do not believe in God can either join the good work, or be a part of those working to tear it down.
+IExposeMormonism , My point is to say, be an example of loving and caring for your neighbors (people around you), don't tear them down. If you don't believe in God and Jesus Christ, that is your right of freedom, but let those who do, do so in peace.
You speak as though you know the truth and reality of the verses in Doctrine and Covenants 132. If you truly did then you would not say what you do about it.
Section Heading:
"Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant and the principle of plural marriage..."
Eternal marriage between 1 man and 1 woman is explained and practiced in the church today. The principle of plural marriage is explained, but is not practiced today. Nor has it been for over 150 years. Plural marriage is strictly not allowed in the church. It is a sin. It was allowed, under covenant with God, only a handful of times throughout Earth's history for specific purposes.
The Kinderhook plates were created out of malice by men who were intentionally trying to deceive others, so they would be swayed from God's work, just as you commit yourself to doing so now.
The Abraham papyrus supports what is taught in The Bible. It is another testament of what we have already been taught from The Bible, but also contains record of other things Abraham himself experienced and learned that are not found in The Bible. This record sustains The Bible and provides additional enlightenment.
Like I stated before, if you don't believe what is being taught by the church, that is your freedom to choose. Let those who do believe do so in peace.
There's not need to go to great lengths about where section 132 came from. It's in the section heading. "Revelation given through Joseph Smith...". Even if polygamy were to become legal, just as homosexual marriage did, the church still does not, and would not, condone it. Any church member practicing any other form of marriage other than marriage of 1 man and 1 woman would be sinning and would brought to disciplinary counsel. Polygamy WAS practiced by church members, no one can deny that. Polygamy IS NOT allowed to be practiced by church members now. I would think people would accept that as a resolution to their questioning regarding the matter. But no.
Once again, I have met another who only wishes to tear down a good organization in the world. Our back and forth on matters we do, and do not, support will be endless. I bid you farewell and hope that you move away from verbal battery against one's religious beliefs, and invest more of your time uplifting and serving those around you.
Thank you for your time.
Maxwell, did you not read all of the comments above? My testimony stands for itself by defending Joseph Smith. I'm not sure who you are or what you stand for, but if you wish to engage in a contentious conversation, I am not interested.
Brilliant presentation that needs to be considered before one rushes to fault Joseph on the Kinderhook "translation". If the Kinderhook plates are troubling to you, spend an hour with Don. Too often TKP have been used as a weapon against Mormonism. Well lets see this issue in context. Thanks Don for brilliant scholarship! n8c
This comment section is a perfect illustration of belching, cursing anti-Mormons against the thoughtful, pensive, hopeful believers.
Joseph Smith couldnt even translate English to Spanish the book.of abraham proves it
@@CesarSanchez-et7qg Last I checked, the Book of Abraham was written in Egyptian not Spanish.......
In all seriousness though, your accusation is incorrect. The Book of Abraham is a much bigger issue than critics make it out to be. They deliberately leave out huge pieces of the puzzle, that they don't want to deal with
Ethan F. Let me guess a secret mathematical code?
It's so important to discredit the 14 year old that claims he saw God and Jesus Christ and was told he would be used to restore the church of Jesus Christ in these latter days. That means every religion on the planet is of manmade and is not reconized by God. All the now fake religions must use damage control and attack from every approach. These attacks have a general thiem. Do so as an intellectual. Despite this people thought the world see through this charade. The church is growing, temples are being added. Gods work cannot be stopped
Perhaps you are asking the wrong question of a true prophet of Gods methods of translation. Prophets have never translated like college scholars or egyptologists. The Bible would never have existed if every Bible prophet had to go to a Columbia University translating school. Any prophet of God like Joseph Smith is never going to translate false mythological Hieroglyphs into pagan English. He is going to translate it back into its original purity reflecting true biblical religion again into English. Like Smith obviously did in the Book of Abraham. The translation would reflect Abraham's gospel according to Abraham's understanding, not by teaching the understanding Egyptian false gods. A true prophet would translate what the Egyptians corrupted and altered and then fix it back into what was originally taught in Gods gospel of Adam, Noah, and Abraham. Fix it by revelation from God and then correctly translate it back into its original purity before the Egyptians altered, counterfeited, and paganized it. You are right, a true prophet would already know how the Egyptians falsely worshiped fake gods. Gods like mythical cartoons that never even existed in reality. It would be as stupid as translating Elmer FUD or bugs bunny as a true religion. God would inspire Smith to decrypt what was done falsely back into the truth again. Isn't that what a restoration prophet actually does? That would be the only sane point for even making such a translation by a true prophet. Obviously, translating falsehoods back into the truth again would match a true biblical translation.. The only thing atheistic Egyptologists understand how to do today is translate the fake cartoon gods anciently worshiped by the pagans back into the same old false pagan religions once again twice. As a result, anti Mormons immediately complain because Joseph Smith saw no spiritual value in translating pagan cartoons of a false gospel into another pagan lie twice. Obviously Egyptologists don-not believe in Gods translation possibilities in the first place, a true translation by biblical prophets they also deny. For scriptural evidence click here. ruclips.net/video/SG4I41xucM8/видео.html
Fancy meeting you here. I'll be brief and point out that you contradict your self saying this: "Gods like mythical cartoons that never even existed in reality. It would be as stupid as translating Elmer FUD or bugs bunny as a true religion." And I agree. Translating pagan mythologies into the "true religions" is stupid (not to mention unfalsifiable). But if you agree why do you still push this nonsense?
Edit: For clarity, it contradicts this quote (which is the crutch of your argument), "Any prophet of God like Joseph Smith is never going to translate false mythological Hieroglyphs into pagan English. He is going to translate it back into its original purity reflecting true biblical religion again into English."
@@steggoraptor What are you a Stegosaurus and part Raptor? I wonder if that mythology could be translated to a religion?
@@paulgregersen3570 that is where the name came from. But it is neither a mythology (even using the loosest definition of myth) nor able to be translated to a religion.
I did deal with it I no longer am a member I suggest u do the same
sorry about that. leaving the kingdom of God isn't really a good thing.
Did you even watch the video? It's a pretty cut and dry deal. The critical explanation for the translation of the kinderhook plates doesn't withstand critical examination. We don't only have the smoking gun against it (the specific character from the GAEL he derived the "translation" from) but we also have eye witnesses ("sent for his Hebrew Bible and Lexicon", "He compared them in my presence to the GAEL"). The evidence clearly shows that it was a secular translation. There is no evidence to the contrary whatsoever.
If this was one of the reasons you left the Church, than that is unutterably sad. Sorry, it is not a legitimate reason.
I guess you need to learn more
@@ozymandias6743 I think you're really confused here man. Are you sure you have a firm grasp on what was presented? It's really cut and dry, not a lot of room for controversy. Even most critics of the church have conceded that point (ever heard of Dan Vogel?). The vast majority no longer use the kinder plates anymore when they present arguments against the Church.
Here's a suggestion. Go to the "Saints Unscripted" RUclips channel and under their "Faith and Beliefs" play list, you'll find a video on the Kinder Hook Plates. The video is much higher quality, easier to understand, and a lot shorter (just a couple of minutes). Hopefully that helps
@@ozymandias6743 But..... He provides good evidence for that conclusion. He doesn't just assert it out of the blue. What do you find fallacious with either his evidence or the reasoning he draws from that evidence?
Joseph would have no longer had the ability as with the Book of Mormon. He no longer had the translator to work with !! So maybe they were a hoax. Big deal !!
Wasting so much energy to deny hard truth.
Another cool FAIR vid. And another anti-mormon claim done gone :). The BofA and BofM show that Joseph had impossible knowledge of Egypt, America, and the Middle East. : ) The Kinderhook plates now show that he was honest, but not Omniscient. An imposter might have put his stone in his hat and come up with an amazing story, JS may have assumed the plates were real (and why not, he had found some) and he may have tried to translate with his stone, but, when that failed, he used the alphabet, assuming his bros. were gifted as he was. : ) . .
Joe peaceman how do those books prove that even in the least? The so called reformed Egyptian doesn’t exist, the symbols that Joseph copied from the plates don’t match any known languages that have ever been found anywhere in the world. Are we to believe that these people cane up with a whole new language to write these plates with, and then never used it anywhere else? 🤦🏼♂️
What a waste of time. You could have just stated your point in the beginning and spared me the endless detail. I really thought this was going somewhere and then...nothing. What a let down.