I better chime in here or people will think there's a conspiracy or I'm butt-hurt. I recently visited PT in the UK (after he recorded this video.) and we spent LOTS of time talking about his Tavelos. We even recorded a podcast about it for his channel - which will come out soon I assume. Go into more detail there, but, a summary of my view: I support PT's video. He seemingly got rush-job frames from Tavelo and that's on Tavelo, not him. His frames were sent to him direct from Tavelo, not Panda Podium. My personal Arow had an undersized BB, and the headset clamp is a pain in the ass to install, but other than that, none of the issues PT had. Jesse and GC's frames also seem to be similar to mine. Anyway, brands should never rush frames, regardless of who they're being sent to. Needless to say PandaPodium QC will be paying extra attention to the areas PT had problems. (Full disclosure... I haven't actually watched PTs video... but he described his problems to me in person.)
Regardless. How can one trust a brand if they can't get 'the basics' right? Seems to be a pattern with the stuff out of China. Lot's hype, but shitty quality. We're all rooting for the market to be more competitive and affordable, but the general perception is that all the groupsets and frames are just crap. Sorry to say but Chinese manufacturing need to up their game if they want to compete.
@@ConstantRider I've owned an sworks tarmac sl7 that I just sold this WE. I've got so many problems with the frame at this price point that I don't trust western bike brands anymore either.. (same with a canyon before) (saddle creek and slide, headset cover scratch, loose bottle cage bolts, crackle varnish, headset bearing rust in no time etc..) Here, I know there might be some issues but I'm paying way less and it's still a modern frame that people seem to really like riding 🤷♂️
Like a BB rolling down a four lane highway. (Like the fit of the BB86 BB into my piece of shit Yoeleo R11 frame, opposite problem to this Tavelo frame).
In all fairness jessie was doing the ride quality not engineering side of it. But if his frame had these issues I agree he should say it. Unless he did not build it himself or his frame was just fine.
Had the same headset cap/cover issue on my Tavelo Attack. The cap rubbed on the top of the headtube which caused rubbing, and basically locked up the handlebars once pre-loaded. I had to sand down the bottom side of the top cap to create clearance on the frame. I would have hoped Tavelo fixed this issue almost 1 year later.
I know what you mean, but to be clear this frame doesn't have that issue - yet! On both of these frames i have: 1. The expander bung hardly fits inside the fork when fully loose - the orings also tear 2. Tightening the expander bung creates so much friction between the stem and steerer, it is hard to preload. Adding more preload pulls the expander up and out instead of compressing the stem downwards. 3. The one piece top cap reduces preload for a given torque because the silly large diameter bolt head. A 2 piece bolt and normal topcap is multiples more effective! 4. Ideally the expander needs a finer, grit blasted surface, not knurling. It also should be anodised to help prevent (but will not stop) sweat corrosion from salts. 5. IMO the steerer tube wall thickness is very thin, which semi causes point 2. It dilates under the radial forces from the expander. The top cap hitting the frame - does not happen...yet. Maybe when full preload is achieved it will. All they need do is ship some penny cost shims that sit on the top bearing if thats the case. But you say it's been a year. Professional companies learn, cowboys dont.
@@PeakTorque Speaking of radial steerer tube expansion, I have the same issue on my Tarmac SL7 steerer tube, when the expander plug is torqued to spec, the steerer tube expands making the integrated cockpit an extremely tight fit (without the expander plug in the stem/cockpit slides on smooth). I worry that increased tightness prevents proper preloading of the bearing. What is an acceptable tolerance of radial expansion? Is 0.1mm too much?
@@Adonis-qj1nq I don’t remember sl7 being designed with a cockpit in mind. I could be wrong, just saying. I thought it came with a stem, which even when torqued slides perfectly. The cockpit I thought was only designed for sl8… again I could be wrong. Now I see why there is a shortage of roval cockpits; all sl7 owners trying to make their bike be a sl8. I mean why in the fucking world would you put a cockpit and make what is a fucking perfectly simple looking bike look ugly and than complain how the sl8 cockpit doesn’t fit?! Just because Jackubson wanted to make his bike faster you don’t have too..
@@Adonis-qj1nq Holy crap that is bad. You can do this work around - after torquing up the expander bung, wedge the stem clamp open while preloading. That will allow the stem to drop down fully. The wedge - screwdriver or coin wrapped in cloth, or if the stem allows, put the bolts in backwards into the threaded holes and put a spacer in the slot so the bolts when tightened work to expand the stem.
@@Chris-derf5 are you stupid.. Chris and Jesse reemed the BB and the groupset saying it's shit... Maybe listen rather than hear sensetional headlines and pick a side... The guy has ever right to defend himself. Even a s works can come with bad QC.
@@Silidons91 nothing wrong with the adverts. When they say they are adverts. Lazy and fake reviews are a problem. But at least we have Luke from trace velo. He's too big to not get a sample. But too proud to sugar coat the truth.
@@christopherparker415 As someone who bought 3 sets of those, I can only say they are stll in the beta test phase for the groupset. The main issue is still with the front mech, mounting point is completely off so that 50t is mostly what that thing will take, also you will be forced to mount the front mech higher than you used to or you face endless chainrub. The software requires close attention when set up, if you are not in the largest chainring and smallest cog, extra time will be needed to reset both mechs' position. Until wheeltop improves, probably for your guys it is better to stick with mainstream brands.
"When I finger it like that, you know get one in and if you are lucky you get two in without a bit of grease" Think I've heard that in another setting 😂🤣
I had a similar issue with Scott with one of their RC frames: BB hole being too small/"egg shaped". Scott bikes NZ importer didn't want to pay for postage of frame to inspect it. I drove to their office and had to guide them through testing process of BB area. It was ridiculous. Main brands fudge up too and not that seldom. Great content anyhow. Creative work desk blanket and workshop background is high on the agenda.
@@schultzy1971 maybe if i shill harder i can get some pulsing neon lights and workshop drawers and cabinets. I just removed that 30 year old kitchen and gave it a new lease of life in the shed its staying 🤓
I support PT's viewpoint. My original Tavelo Attack frameset (which I paid for) also was a rush job order it seems. Something that Joe from Panda Podium discussed with me. I even addressed those critiques in my own video breakdown. It's very frustrating. The good news is as a complete bike build, the Tavelo Attack is fantastic to ride. Potential issues aside I don't doubt the new Arow frame will be also fantastic out on the road. But as a paying customer those issues cannot be overlooked. Hopefully these are just growing pains from Tavelo, and they can turn it around.
PeakTorque and Hambini are like my version of Gamers Nexus and derbauer in the tech field, I like you guys both for the analytical assessment of stuff, but I go to LTT/LMG (in my bike terms Trace Velo, Nero Show, and Jasper and other content creators) for the easily digestible information. I can't fkn wait for the new ep of Nero Show covering this review. Love you all guys for what you're doing to the cycling RUclips sphere! Keep it coming! edit: add buildzoid, Patrick Lino, Dave Arthur to the analogy but I know you guys already get it
Thanks for the video PT. Beautiful reaming. I had a similar issue with the d-shaped expander bung and headset stack on my Cervelo R5. It’s insane to me that these parts can be manufactured this far out of spec. Appreciate the service to the community with this review.
@@RyonBeachner Hey Chris, have you seen this Polygon?! Cracking deal. Big up Jesse I do actually love you guys but get Edwin on the show i wanna hear his experience building it!
Good to see someone doing an honest review.. this frame is certainly doing the RUclips round watched it GC performance this morning who obviously loved it $$.. it’s like the Wheeltop EDS group sets.. love the QC comment 😅😅 Pete 🚴🏻👍
Just give me a round 27.2 seatpost and a round steerer with traditional stem and handlebar which just works. I don't even care if I have a few cables catching the air. Anything to stop all this extra finnicky not well thought out complication, and future headaches when everything is corroded, and stuck inside the frame and falls apart when one tries to remove it. And then sending away overseas for replacement proprietary parts if they're even still available by then.
It's probably fair to point out that it's pretty simple to fit external or semi external cables to pretty much any frame, but damn hard and a bit stupid to fit fully internal. The steerer area becomes a total nightmare....
Thanks for being unapologetically honest! Appreciate your content and hope other "influencers" can learn from you and do the same rather than be "bribed" with free or discounted stuff.
I watched this video just after ordering my "Tavelo Arow". I was terrified that I had made the wrong choice. Luckily everything went well. I don't know why you found all these "flaws". My mechanic (a really good mechanic, not a youtuber) assembled the bike in no time with no problems. I showed him your video and he had a big laugh. This frame is awesome, and it flies on the road!
China direct 15 years ago had similar short fall in finish and components needing fettling in the build but they were cheap (1/4 the price) so you just did it and were happy enough. 4 times the price with improvement being eps mould and better paint only not good enough... It's moved into a higher level of expectation...
What's disheartening is not that this is another Beta test product, it's that former Winspace staff should know better. No one is learning anything in the Far East with startup projects.
I don't catch every vid but gee wiz, this is a terrific review. Hope the brand take it all on board and improve from it. But point about the major brands not delivering results like this is well made. Again, props for the massive time investment to put this together.
It would be nice to see such a detailed reaming on Seka's frames. Because they charge about 2500€ for the frame only and another 370€ for the integrated handlebar, which is a lot for a Chinese brand. Hopefully they have much better QC than a Tavelo, but few youtubers like you will be able to show the real picture.
Nice to see a solid review on this product. It looks like they have some work to do. I hope they take your feedback and improve thier product. Ps, you are making hambini's pen looks soft after this reaming!
Hahaha I follow that market very closely, and that's very true! You can still get great prices from factories, but it's true that most of the brands from China are now at a price point that's getting close to the west, but price rarely/never directly correlates with quality.
Yep. I could get a new TCR adv sl frame, from an actual shop, with accountable humans for basically the same price or a bit more with a bit of haggling 😅
Nothing like a good RUclips beef! Love it Face off on the Nero show next week! It’s actually great to see cycling RUclipsrs interacting like this and also sharing honest thoughts and experiences even if they see things a bit different. Hopefully no one is permanently But hurt, that would be a shame.
@@matkrekjust like any brands, always go for the more established ones and you wouldn't face these issues. New brands like this probably have a limited production line or even may not even have their own factory so they outsourced their manufacturing to several others and thus the inconsistencies.
Sure for amateur cyclist and bicycle exercise they’ll probably be fine. Till you need it to shift under total crap conditions and super high loads, we shall see.
@@justinkase8716 yeah the top racing team in Thailand ride Nich frames, which people say are the same frames as the Tavelo Attack - coming from one of the big framebuilders, with a name starting with the letter A but I can't remember it exactly The price of the Nich version frameset is 2x the price of the Tavelo. Not sure if they have higher QC standards than Tavelo, or if the money is all for marketing/profit). Anyway, the guys riding the Nich frames are riding a TON, and Winning races...
11:35 I'd challenge you about carbon dust being not particularly dangerous. There's really not enough respiratory health research out there on it specifically, but if you look at it under a microscope at a suitable magnification, you'll see long fibres with quite jagged edges, which look suspiciously like wood, asbestos and and silica particles (PM 0.5 - PM 10), all of which can cause long-term, sometimes fatal, lung disease. Err on the side of caution, and use a HEPA vacuum with a nozzle and mini extraction hood to suck up as much of it as you can. And a mask. And some glasses. And a smock.
I occasionally dip in to see what's happening with modern bikes. Its intriguing. But it makes me appreciate me 2013 Planet X pro carbon 105 rim brake. Round seat post. Plain 1 1/8th" steerer. Threaded BB. C2W scheme job. £1000 RRP at the time. No internal routing. Even has exposed runs of inner cable on the outside! Its a medium, and it's TINY! Gets down the road well enough for me. Easy to service. The only worry is the availability of 10speed stuff. You can argue it's not AS high performance. I'd argue diminishing returns for such a majority of actual riders.
What’s hilarious is my Ceccotti C-20 (Exactly replica of Tarmac SL6 DM Rim Brake) has been a dream to ride and straight forward to build. Outside of needing to clean the threads of the direct mount brake studs and clean out the paint from the bonded cable guides for the rear brake, everything went together pretty seamlessly. They let me choose the layup of carbon for ride feel and full custom color, my aftermarket SL6 sworks post fits exact, my ceramic speed SL6 bearings fit exact, my SWorks stem and bars went together perfectly on their steer tube. At $360 for everything Frameset related and a 3 year warranty, it’s funny how many issues higher priced Chinese brands have. Just food for thought
Thanks for sharing your wisdom and experience. FWIW the "QC" seems much like a Chinese frame I built up. Lots of fettling, machining and compromise to get it to work. That was with a cheaper Chinese frame. Dare I mention the last 4 digits of the frame # spells FOOL 😢
Tavelo Official Response to Peak Torque Concerns Peak Torque Concerns I have some more issues about the engineering: 1. The bb shell is slightly undersized (40.87 to 40.92) but i will confirm a more accurate measurement 2. The fork expander is very tight in the fork (even when loosened bolt) 3. The black steerer shim does not fit in the gap. Too tight 4. The seat post wedge clamp edges arrived damaged and are very sharp. They have damaged the seat-post. I always mention in videos that sharp corners that clamp on carbon need to be smoothed and chamfered on the engineering drawings. 5. The one-piece headset top cap has too much friction and is difficult to preload. A separate bolt and cap would be better in my opinion. Tavelo’s Response: We would like to extend our gratitude to Alex for his time and thorough review of our Tavelo AROW frame set. Although the initial impressions of his two early production framesets were not entirely satisfactory, we have since addressed several of the issues he highlighted. Additionally, we are incorporating many of the constructive suggestions he mentioned in his video for further improvements. We take Alex’s feedback seriously and are committed to refining our product based on his valuable insights. 1. The production of Peak Torque’s frames was expedited to ensure the quickest delivery. However, this haste led to a lapse in quality control, particularly in the bottom bracket (BB) area. Improperly fitted BB covers allowed leakage of the transparent curing putty, which, once hardened, behaves like epoxy resin. (This putty is applied after sanding off the mold release agent and serves as a paint primer.) The leakage compromised the BB area, leading to potential issues with tolerances and shape. To address this, we now use properly sized rubber sleeve covers for the BB area, preventing contamination of the BB surfaces. Our updated mass production process includes a 100% inspection of all installation surfaces to ensure they meet the required tolerances. Additionally, regarding our supplied Bottom Brackets - we have worked with our BB supplier to implement rigorous tolerance and quality control procedures, preventing future complications with their products. 2. This issue arises from the O-ring on the expander, which necessitates high design accuracy. We aim to maintain a precise fit; however, if the installation is performed according to the provided instructions, the process should remain straightforward without complications. To enhance aerodynamic performance and achieve a sleeker head tube profile, we opted for a D-shaped steer tube. This decision necessitated the design of a custom D-shaped expander plug. The expander requires a specialized installation process, which we will detail in a comprehensive "User Instruction Manual" to facilitate proper installation and disassembly. 3. We were not anticipating any tolerance issues with the CNC steer shim from our supplier. Unfortunately, as Alex discovered, the shim was oversized. We have since addressed this by implementing a rigorous testing process to ensure each shim fits correctly. 4. As Alex noted, the seat post wedge was damaged during shipment, resulting in sharp edges on the wedge,the damage of BB plastic shell was also damaged during shipment.We have since enhanced our packaging to better protect all components during transit, ensuring they arrive in perfect condition and preventing similar issues in the future. 5. Future frame-sets will be shipped with two-piece headset cap & bolt, as well as the one-piece unit.Using one-piece headset cap requires adding grease according to "User Instruction Manual".
Sure. But why on earth were none of these measures done to begin with? If I’d spent my own money on one of these frames without a RUclips channel to vent with I’d be stuck with a lemon. It was product sent for review and even that one wasn’t checked. People really want you to do well, so it’s disappointing
Exactly, I've had the Pro for over a year now and it's very well made. It was the Falath Pro that put them on the map with its outstanding quality. They tried to capitalize on that success with Falath Evo, but it was extremely rushed to the market and nowhere near as good.
Wtf? I built Falath Pro last fall and it is absolute sh*t. It rides like a wet noodle. Fork is flexy, steerer is flexy and Orome handlebars are flexy too. The result is absolutlely unpredictable steering when doing out of saddle efforts. Even in the saddle you can feel how flexy the front end is. Not really confidence inspiring and I won't ride it. The worst frame I ever rode.
@@renesemela900 Absolute rubbish....total bull shit....My bike has sram red e-tap-hyper D67 wheels with specialized s works cotton tyres,selle italia carbon rail saddle,co-efficient handlebars. 7.4 kilo rim brake bike. I WILL PUT THIS UP AGAINST ANY TOP END BIKE ANYWHERE. I have more strava trophys KOMS what ever i have also a LOOK 695-a wilier cento 1 ait-and a brand new Storck aerfast 4 sram and DT swiss and bollocks mate the Elves is simply the best all round bike for climbing TT and crits. You obviously dont know much about cycling.
In general, that's why I'm still sticking to things like Campy/Corima/Roval/FFWD/DT wheels vs "modern" Chinese sets. Whenever I feel tempted to buy one, I just do a quick search on hub issues and the temptation instantly goes away. As for frames, with the new-gen Chinese frame prices, I would just rather pick a Giant and sort out the BB preemptively (if needed). The quick iteration of all these wheels, frames etc. doesn't leave enough room for properly established and executed QA.
That bike build looks like a nightmare. I had to hone out an undersized bb on my bike. But it was like $300 on Chain Reaction and from a random Belgian brand that went out of business. For ~$2000 I’d expect much better.
Ok I get they say they rushed out PTs frames, but not to other RUclipsrs..just PT got the rushed out bike seemingly…. Did the manufacture know anything about PT at all! If I’m sending a bike frame to this man its 100% definitely IS NOT the rushed out the factory quick bike frame😂😂. It’s a very good point PT makes at the start of the video, these days there is little between these mass market carbon framesets when it comes to ride feel etc, it’s more down to how it builds up and the perceived quality. If you sell it as a frame only, you know your customers are going to see all the quality pros and cons as they build up the frame.
Having built up 2 bikes from Velobuild a few years ago, it's the components and buildability that let these frames down, a lot. Comparing them to the frame components on my Cannondale and Canyon, they're just utter crap and manufactured from extra heavy, extra soft steel. 'Anyone' can make a 'good' frame these days, but just don't look too close, look at the pretty shape and the pretty colours.
Hold on - not mechanical compatible? Screw it. Reminds me quality wise to my $400 velobuild frame. Too tight bb area to fit a proper bb into. Plus many other things like rear wheel not being in the center axis of the bike, and many things more.
My arow seatpost now has diamond etching in it from the clamp, has me slightly worried if it is damaging the integrity of the post. Also had issues with the bb seals. And had the same issues with the bung plug. Apart from that I had very few issues with mine and not much issues building it myself. And it surprisingly rides well.
Yep. That sort of knurling is ridiculous. It will grip the seatpost, but by indenting it permanently. Terrible design. A grit blasted surface would be best.
@@PeakTorque looking forward to the follow up anywho, I opted for the 12 speed di2 for mine and had no issues with brake rub etc as the facing was quite good on my frame, do you think a new bung plug is advised ? Or do you think the one is usable ? I hand tightened mine and got no verticals slipping when compressing, interested to hear if carbon past stops your issue without needing to put too much force into clamping it in.
ok, BUT, as a ''zoom out'' note, I really value the beauty of the multipart piece that goes into the fork tube. I understand everything you say and you're right of course, I just wanted to make a stop and appreciate that part : )
That's really disappointing, as this frameset seemed to tick everything i was looking for. But at this price point i would expect a flawless assembly experience, especially when you can get some frameset for only 2/3 the price that have seemingly better quality control. I really hope tavelo will fix their poor quality control
I wonder how you will eliminate the play from the headset. Have similarly designed chineese frame and in my case play and audible knock was present when hit the brakes and pulled the bike back and forth. Reason was this metal C-ring that you put on the top bearing had like 0.5mm play against the steerer tube. I put a tape on the steerer tube to eliminate that.
@@MichalMalpa yep good point. The c-ring is not designed properly like the old ones which would deform under preload and grip the steerer tight. This one seems too stiff but we shall see.
What handlebars are on that rim brake tcr? Those look sweet. Like the Coefficient bars without the computer mount. I would love to get one if it isn't $400 lol
yeah was about to ask that question as well. We'll have to wait until he makes a video about them i guess. I was hoping to get cross-wing aero bars, but the ones in video look great too.
I soon will hopefully be talking about these as something i am proud to endorse. I have been testing them in TTs and they are game changing for my position. Faster on less watts. And by a huge amount, because they offer total wrist support without a silly increase in reach.
Yikes. Good thing mine hasn't shipped yet. My last "branded" bike was a rim brake Liv Langma (because TCRs are MAN bikes that only come in MAN sizes) with that awful non-chamfered TCR seatpost clamp that predictably kept eating seatposts. And as if that wasn't enough everything else is crap too? Amazing.
@@PeakTorque after the 2nd one Giant tried telling me I'm too dumb to use a torque wrench. fascinating that they still moved away from that FLAWLESS clamp design when it was user error all along 🤔
Not sure about longer head tubes - I’ve got a long torso and short legs, so a 56cm with a low ish saddle gives me (almost) the top tube length I think I need.
Great content as always. Just on the comment of 3D printed top caps I find that not an issue, most Chinese carbon bar manufacturers will have a 3D printed adapter pretty quickly. I put a relatively obscure avian bar on my equally obscure Elilee, all I had to do was email panda and they had it sorted in a day
@@tubulartyre1700 yeh it would to be fair. But drilling and helicoiling carbon would be difficult. Would need at least an m14/15 helicoil to retain the m12 thru axle at a guess and then youre not getting left with much material
@@klein-conceptalready sent them all the feedback. Expect someone in the marketing department is getting their ass kicked for sending me one, rather than someone fixing the issues. But we will see.
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I better chime in here or people will think there's a conspiracy or I'm butt-hurt. I recently visited PT in the UK (after he recorded this video.) and we spent LOTS of time talking about his Tavelos. We even recorded a podcast about it for his channel - which will come out soon I assume. Go into more detail there, but, a summary of my view: I support PT's video. He seemingly got rush-job frames from Tavelo and that's on Tavelo, not him. His frames were sent to him direct from Tavelo, not Panda Podium. My personal Arow had an undersized BB, and the headset clamp is a pain in the ass to install, but other than that, none of the issues PT had. Jesse and GC's frames also seem to be similar to mine. Anyway, brands should never rush frames, regardless of who they're being sent to. Needless to say PandaPodium QC will be paying extra attention to the areas PT had problems. (Full disclosure... I haven't actually watched PTs video... but he described his problems to me in person.)
This transparency is what more of the cycling, RUclipsr, product reviewer community etc needs.
That's really nice to hear cause even after this video I'm still tempted to buy one so badly haha so panda podium might be the way to go!
Regardless. How can one trust a brand if they can't get 'the basics' right? Seems to be a pattern with the stuff out of China. Lot's hype, but shitty quality.
We're all rooting for the market to be more competitive and affordable, but the general perception is that all the groupsets and frames are just crap. Sorry to say but Chinese manufacturing need to up their game if they want to compete.
@@ConstantRider that’s most products these days. Everything is marketing drive sales product second.
@@ConstantRider I've owned an sworks tarmac sl7 that I just sold this WE. I've got so many problems with the frame at this price point that I don't trust western bike brands anymore either.. (same with a canyon before) (saddle creek and slide, headset cover scratch, loose bottle cage bolts, crackle varnish, headset bearing rust in no time etc..)
Here, I know there might be some issues but I'm paying way less and it's still a modern frame that people seem to really like riding 🤷♂️
You can measure my bore any time with your gauge
Id need the next size up especially after your extended holiday!
Like throwing a hotdog down a hallway
@@AJackal lol
Like a BB rolling down a four lane highway. (Like the fit of the BB86 BB into my piece of shit Yoeleo R11 frame, opposite problem to this Tavelo frame).
@@PeakTorque That's a hate crime, probably.
Thank goodness for PT in this age of youtube. I've seen a number of "trusted" reviewers sing nothing but the charms of this bike.
or basically doing a review of the groupset shifting smoothness... of course any fucking bike with a propperly installed 105 di2 will shift good
In all fairness jessie was doing the ride quality not engineering side of it. But if his frame had these issues I agree he should say it. Unless he did not build it himself or his frame was just fine.
@@Dustydayzz according to the mechanic, jesse’s frame was ok. So lets not crucify the poor guy!
@@Dustydayzz Jessie did highlight the same issue with the BB
Been too long for me to see one of your videos. Thanks for keeping it honest and not just falling over with new bike day giddiness!
Had the same headset cap/cover issue on my Tavelo Attack. The cap rubbed on the top of the headtube which caused rubbing, and basically locked up the handlebars once pre-loaded. I had to sand down the bottom side of the top cap to create clearance on the frame. I would have hoped Tavelo fixed this issue almost 1 year later.
I know what you mean, but to be clear this frame doesn't have that issue - yet! On both of these frames i have:
1. The expander bung hardly fits inside the fork when fully loose - the orings also tear
2. Tightening the expander bung creates so much friction between the stem and steerer, it is hard to preload. Adding more preload pulls the expander up and out instead of compressing the stem downwards.
3. The one piece top cap reduces preload for a given torque because the silly large diameter bolt head. A 2 piece bolt and normal topcap is multiples more effective!
4. Ideally the expander needs a finer, grit blasted surface, not knurling. It also should be anodised to help prevent (but will not stop) sweat corrosion from salts.
5. IMO the steerer tube wall thickness is very thin, which semi causes point 2. It dilates under the radial forces from the expander.
The top cap hitting the frame - does not happen...yet. Maybe when full preload is achieved it will. All they need do is ship some penny cost shims that sit on the top bearing if thats the case. But you say it's been a year. Professional companies learn, cowboys dont.
@@PeakTorque Speaking of radial steerer tube expansion, I have the same issue on my Tarmac SL7 steerer tube, when the expander plug is torqued to spec, the steerer tube expands making the integrated cockpit an extremely tight fit (without the expander plug in the stem/cockpit slides on smooth). I worry that increased tightness prevents proper preloading of the bearing. What is an acceptable tolerance of radial expansion? Is 0.1mm too much?
@@Adonis-qj1nq I don’t remember sl7 being designed with a cockpit in mind. I could be wrong, just saying. I thought it came with a stem, which even when torqued slides perfectly. The cockpit I thought was only designed for sl8… again I could be wrong. Now I see why there is a shortage of roval cockpits; all sl7 owners trying to make their bike be a sl8. I mean why in the fucking world would you put a cockpit and make what is a fucking perfectly simple looking bike look ugly and than complain how the sl8 cockpit doesn’t fit?! Just because Jackubson wanted to make his bike faster you don’t have too..
@@Adonis-qj1nq Holy crap that is bad. You can do this work around - after torquing up the expander bung, wedge the stem clamp open while preloading. That will allow the stem to drop down fully. The wedge - screwdriver or coin wrapped in cloth, or if the stem allows, put the bolts in backwards into the threaded holes and put a spacer in the slot so the bolts when tightened work to expand the stem.
@@PeakTorque cheers, I’ll give that a try
You know what Chris & Jesse will be talking about this week
@@krisbowditch827 ill take one for free though lol
I’m stoked to see Jesse called out. Hilarious. 😂😂
their butthurt response is just sad
@@Chris-derf5 are you stupid.. Chris and Jesse reemed the BB and the groupset saying it's shit... Maybe listen rather than hear sensetional headlines and pick a side... The guy has ever right to defend himself. Even a s works can come with bad QC.
@@Chris-derf5cringe I thought he was going to cry 😂
I *love* the fact rhat wheeltop said no to you, tells me everything i need to know about that brand. Thanks for everything you do.
I bought one and they are absolute trash. Terrible customer service as well.
Whenever you see a brand pop up all of a sudden on a bunch of different youtube channels, you know they're just pumping out adverts.
@@Silidons91 nothing wrong with the adverts. When they say they are adverts. Lazy and fake reviews are a problem. But at least we have Luke from trace velo. He's too big to not get a sample. But too proud to sugar coat the truth.
@@Caffeinatedtechnerdtoo bad I had my hopes up on this one.
@@christopherparker415 As someone who bought 3 sets of those, I can only say they are stll in the beta test phase for the groupset. The main issue is still with the front mech, mounting point is completely off so that 50t is mostly what that thing will take, also you will be forced to mount the front mech higher than you used to or you face endless chainrub.
The software requires close attention when set up, if you are not in the largest chainring and smallest cog, extra time will be needed to reset both mechs' position.
Until wheeltop improves, probably for your guys it is better to stick with mainstream brands.
how can i trust you when you have a flowery table with no princess blanket
"When I finger it like that, you know get one in and if you are lucky you get two in without a bit of grease" Think I've heard that in another setting 😂🤣
So many innuendos in the video, it's ridiculous 😅
I had a similar issue with Scott with one of their RC frames: BB hole being too small/"egg shaped". Scott bikes NZ importer didn't want to pay for postage of frame to inspect it. I drove to their office and had to guide them through testing process of BB area. It was ridiculous. Main brands fudge up too and not that seldom. Great content anyhow. Creative work desk blanket and workshop background is high on the agenda.
@@schultzy1971 maybe if i shill harder i can get some pulsing neon lights and workshop drawers and cabinets. I just removed that 30 year old kitchen and gave it a new lease of life in the shed its staying 🤓
@@PeakTorque David arthur has a disco ball😂
Needs a Princess blanket 😊
Hope it wasn't a Scott Foil RC 2023/4?
@@williamwong9877 it was the 2019 Spark RC MTB, size large.
I support PT's viewpoint. My original Tavelo Attack frameset (which I paid for) also was a rush job order it seems. Something that Joe from Panda Podium discussed with me. I even addressed those critiques in my own video breakdown. It's very frustrating. The good news is as a complete bike build, the Tavelo Attack is fantastic to ride. Potential issues aside I don't doubt the new Arow frame will be also fantastic out on the road. But as a paying customer those issues cannot be overlooked. Hopefully these are just growing pains from Tavelo, and they can turn it around.
The biggest pain grew in Jessica's coyle ass 😂
🧨 Tune into The NERO Show Ep. 96 this Thursday for a full breakdown and discussion ☕
😂
Wouldn't miss it
SHILL
That was some top quality cringe, you pair of big girls bras. It appears humour hasn't made to downunder yet.
Full meltdown ... Lmao 2 drama queens 😂😂😂
PeakTorque and Hambini are like my version of Gamers Nexus and derbauer in the tech field, I like you guys both for the analytical assessment of stuff, but I go to LTT/LMG (in my bike terms Trace Velo, Nero Show, and Jasper and other content creators) for the easily digestible information.
I can't fkn wait for the new ep of Nero Show covering this review. Love you all guys for what you're doing to the cycling RUclips sphere! Keep it coming!
edit: add buildzoid, Patrick Lino, Dave Arthur to the analogy but I know you guys already get it
Nero Show doesn't reply or pick on such reviews, they talk about everyone else and make up stuff as they go. It got to be so bad is a must watch
Respect for this honest review!
Thanks for the video PT. Beautiful reaming. I had a similar issue with the d-shaped expander bung and headset stack on my Cervelo R5. It’s insane to me that these parts can be manufactured this far out of spec. Appreciate the service to the community with this review.
What timing! Right after that shop owner in Florida dropped a glorifying review 😂 (with a affiliate link included, of course)
This looks like an excellent value provided one’s time is nearly worthless and you happen to have manufacturing and engineering experience.
And very specific tools
Damn.. An honest review rather than all the rubbish floating around youtube. Charging these sort of money but giving out such crap quality is crazy
Great analysis that we cant get anywhere else, keep up the great work
Disliked by Jesse Coyle😜
Are you referring to the frame, or to Alex? 😂
Liked by Edwin
Our old mate peak thought the Tavelo is pure slop, Chris
@@harrypcseI read it in his voice and everything. Well done 😂
@@RyonBeachner Hey Chris, have you seen this Polygon?! Cracking deal. Big up Jesse I do actually love you guys but get Edwin on the show i wanna hear his experience building it!
"Heavy is good, heavy is reliable." Also, "Too tight? You could land a jumbo fucking jet in there!"
Tyrone, when you reverse, things come from behind ya
This is why I subscribe to this channel. Looks like a total crap frame in its current iteration.
this is what we want, the honest review
yoshitomo nara fan spotted
What a piece of shit. They just need to charge a couple of thousand dollars more and they are a direct competitor for Cervelo.
Good to see someone doing an honest review.. this frame is certainly doing the RUclips round watched it GC performance this morning who obviously loved it $$.. it’s like the Wheeltop EDS group sets.. love the QC comment 😅😅 Pete 🚴🏻👍
Best buildreview ever! Finally someone with knowledge telling what to expect.
Spent all the budget on EPS molding, apparently...finish hardware is whatever the local market had.
Just give me a round 27.2 seatpost and a round steerer with traditional stem and handlebar which just works. I don't even care if I have a few cables catching the air. Anything to stop all this extra finnicky not well thought out complication, and future headaches when everything is corroded, and stuck inside the frame and falls apart when one tries to remove it. And then sending away overseas for replacement proprietary parts if they're even still available by then.
It's probably fair to point out that it's pretty simple to fit external or semi external cables to pretty much any frame, but damn hard and a bit stupid to fit fully internal. The steerer area becomes a total nightmare....
Thanks for being unapologetically honest! Appreciate your content and hope other "influencers" can learn from you and do the same rather than be "bribed" with free or discounted stuff.
I watched this video just after ordering my "Tavelo Arow". I was terrified that I had made the wrong choice. Luckily everything went well. I don't know why you found all these "flaws". My mechanic (a really good mechanic, not a youtuber) assembled the bike in no time with no problems. I showed him your video and he had a big laugh. This frame is awesome, and it flies on the road!
Well i guess they made some big fucking improvements! They certainly asked me a lot of questions on how to improve.
China direct 15 years ago had similar short fall in finish and components needing fettling in the build but they were cheap (1/4 the price) so you just did it and were happy enough.
4 times the price with improvement being eps mould and better paint only not good enough... It's moved into a higher level of expectation...
@PeakTorque ! You are the go to channel for calling out the crap that EVERYONE tries peddle. Good on ya, mate! Keep calling out the good and the bad.
Finally a honest review on bikes from a guy who really know what he's doing. Legend.
What's disheartening is not that this is another Beta test product, it's that former Winspace staff should know better. No one is learning anything in the Far East with startup projects.
It seems that way. I can count the number that can on 1 finger
@@PeakTorquewho
@@PeakTorqueWHO?
@@FT__Bicycling_____-sc7yv was a joke. I cant.
I don't catch every vid but gee wiz, this is a terrific review. Hope the brand take it all on board and improve from it. But point about the major brands not delivering results like this is well made. Again, props for the massive time investment to put this together.
Whole bunch of forum members are going to have hurt feelings hearing from you that spacer stacks reduce the stiffness of front ends. Chapeau.
Why would forum members take offense at that?
It would be nice to see such a detailed reaming on Seka's frames. Because they charge about 2500€ for the frame only and another 370€ for the integrated handlebar, which is a lot for a Chinese brand. Hopefully they have much better QC than a Tavelo, but few youtubers like you will be able to show the real picture.
This crap should not even cost 1000$
Nice to see a solid review on this product. It looks like they have some work to do. I hope they take your feedback and improve thier product. Ps, you are making hambini's pen looks soft after this reaming!
So, instead of the Chinese brands driving the western prices down, the Western brands are driving the Chinese prices up. Nice.
Hahaha I follow that market very closely, and that's very true! You can still get great prices from factories, but it's true that most of the brands from China are now at a price point that's getting close to the west, but price rarely/never directly correlates with quality.
Yep. I could get a new TCR adv sl frame, from an actual shop, with accountable humans for basically the same price or a bit more with a bit of haggling 😅
Get a good frame from China and build a bike... cheaper than known brands that also buy from China then assemble in their shops...
Bro, your written Chinese is excellent (for technical writing).
It looks better than much better than google translate.
I'm surprised. Well done.
@@dylanl9532 thank openAi
Nothing like a good RUclips beef! Love it
Face off on the Nero show next week!
It’s actually great to see cycling RUclipsrs interacting like this and also sharing honest thoughts and experiences even if they see things a bit different. Hopefully no one is permanently But hurt, that would be a shame.
Oh, man. The next Nero Show is going to be entertaining.
Just did a bike race in thailand and the representation of chinese bikes and groupsets was wild. They are performing as good as any other brand.
Performing well for how long, how many frames have these manufacturing issues…
@@matkrek For me at least 15k km already.
@@matkrekjust like any brands, always go for the more established ones and you wouldn't face these issues. New brands like this probably have a limited production line or even may not even have their own factory so they outsourced their manufacturing to several others and thus the inconsistencies.
Sure for amateur cyclist and bicycle exercise they’ll probably be fine. Till you need it to shift under total crap conditions and super high loads, we shall see.
@@justinkase8716 yeah the top racing team in Thailand ride Nich frames, which people say are the same frames as the Tavelo Attack - coming from one of the big framebuilders, with a name starting with the letter A but I can't remember it exactly
The price of the Nich version frameset is 2x the price of the Tavelo. Not sure if they have higher QC standards than Tavelo, or if the money is all for marketing/profit). Anyway, the guys riding the Nich frames are riding a TON, and Winning races...
11:35 I'd challenge you about carbon dust being not particularly dangerous. There's really not enough respiratory health research out there on it specifically, but if you look at it under a microscope at a suitable magnification, you'll see long fibres with quite jagged edges, which look suspiciously like wood, asbestos and and silica particles (PM 0.5 - PM 10), all of which can cause long-term, sometimes fatal, lung disease. Err on the side of caution, and use a HEPA vacuum with a nozzle and mini extraction hood to suck up as much of it as you can. And a mask. And some glasses. And a smock.
He had a mask on I think he knows its nasty stuff. But yes I agree, needs to be more awareness.
I occasionally dip in to see what's happening with modern bikes. Its intriguing. But it makes me appreciate me 2013 Planet X pro carbon 105 rim brake. Round seat post. Plain 1 1/8th" steerer. Threaded BB. C2W scheme job. £1000 RRP at the time. No internal routing. Even has exposed runs of inner cable on the outside! Its a medium, and it's TINY! Gets down the road well enough for me. Easy to service. The only worry is the availability of 10speed stuff. You can argue it's not AS high performance. I'd argue diminishing returns for such a majority of actual riders.
What’s hilarious is my Ceccotti C-20 (Exactly replica of Tarmac SL6 DM Rim Brake) has been a dream to ride and straight forward to build. Outside of needing to clean the threads of the direct mount brake studs and clean out the paint from the bonded cable guides for the rear brake, everything went together pretty seamlessly. They let me choose the layup of carbon for ride feel and full custom color, my aftermarket SL6 sworks post fits exact, my ceramic speed SL6 bearings fit exact, my SWorks stem and bars went together perfectly on their steer tube. At $360 for everything Frameset related and a 3 year warranty, it’s funny how many issues higher priced Chinese brands have. Just food for thought
Thank you for your detailed review! Do you need to remove the expander when removing the handlebars for traveling? I appreciate what you are doing!
Rewatching this.
Gods work
Keep it up PT
Thanks for sharing your wisdom and experience. FWIW the "QC" seems much like a Chinese frame I built up. Lots of fettling, machining and compromise to get it to work. That was with a cheaper Chinese frame. Dare I mention the last 4 digits of the frame # spells FOOL 😢
That colorway is actually sick as hell
Tavelo Official Response to Peak Torque Concerns
Peak Torque Concerns
I have some more issues about the engineering:
1. The bb shell is slightly undersized (40.87 to 40.92) but i will confirm a more accurate measurement
2. The fork expander is very tight in the fork (even when loosened bolt)
3. The black steerer shim does not fit in the gap. Too tight
4. The seat post wedge clamp edges arrived damaged and are very sharp. They have damaged the seat-post. I always mention in videos that sharp corners that clamp on carbon need to be smoothed and chamfered on the engineering drawings.
5. The one-piece headset top cap has too much friction and is difficult to preload. A separate bolt and cap would be better in my opinion.
Tavelo’s Response:
We would like to extend our gratitude to Alex for his time and thorough review of our Tavelo AROW frame set. Although the initial impressions of his two early production framesets were not entirely satisfactory, we have since addressed several of the issues he highlighted. Additionally, we are incorporating many of the constructive suggestions he mentioned in his video for further improvements. We take Alex’s feedback seriously and are committed to refining our product based on his valuable insights.
1. The production of Peak Torque’s frames was expedited to ensure the quickest delivery. However, this haste led to a lapse in quality control, particularly in the bottom bracket (BB) area. Improperly fitted BB covers allowed leakage of the transparent curing putty, which, once hardened, behaves like epoxy resin. (This putty is applied after sanding off the mold release agent and serves as a paint primer.)
The leakage compromised the BB area, leading to potential issues with tolerances and shape. To address this, we now use properly sized rubber sleeve covers for the BB area, preventing contamination of the BB surfaces. Our updated mass production process includes a 100% inspection of all installation surfaces to ensure they meet the required tolerances.
Additionally, regarding our supplied Bottom Brackets - we have worked with our BB supplier to implement rigorous tolerance and quality control procedures, preventing future complications with their products.
2. This issue arises from the O-ring on the expander, which necessitates high design accuracy. We aim to maintain a precise fit; however, if the installation is performed according to the provided instructions, the process should remain straightforward without complications. To enhance aerodynamic performance and achieve a sleeker head tube profile, we opted for a D-shaped steer tube. This decision necessitated the design of a custom D-shaped expander plug. The expander requires a specialized installation process, which we will detail in a comprehensive "User Instruction Manual" to facilitate proper installation and disassembly.
3. We were not anticipating any tolerance issues with the CNC steer shim from our supplier. Unfortunately, as Alex discovered, the shim was oversized. We have since addressed this by implementing a rigorous testing process to ensure each shim fits correctly.
4. As Alex noted, the seat post wedge was damaged during shipment, resulting in sharp edges on the wedge,the damage of BB plastic shell was also damaged during shipment.We have since enhanced our packaging to better protect all components during transit, ensuring they arrive in perfect condition and preventing similar issues in the future.
5. Future frame-sets will be shipped with two-piece headset cap & bolt, as well as the one-piece unit.Using one-piece headset cap requires adding grease according to "User Instruction Manual".
Sure. But why on earth were none of these measures done to begin with? If I’d spent my own money on one of these frames without a RUclips channel to vent with I’d be stuck with a lemon. It was product sent for review and even that one wasn’t checked. People really want you to do well, so it’s disappointing
Yeah of course they will try to defence them selfs with this nonsense , stay away from it .....
Elves Falath PRO not EVO walks all over this frame for quality and performance. £784 in rim option simply cannot be beaten.
Exactly, I've had the Pro for over a year now and it's very well made. It was the Falath Pro that put them on the map with its outstanding quality. They tried to capitalize on that success with Falath Evo, but it was extremely rushed to the market and nowhere near as good.
Wtf? I built Falath Pro last fall and it is absolute sh*t. It rides like a wet noodle. Fork is flexy, steerer is flexy and Orome handlebars are flexy too. The result is absolutlely unpredictable steering when doing out of saddle efforts. Even in the saddle you can feel how flexy the front end is. Not really confidence inspiring and I won't ride it. The worst frame I ever rode.
@@renesemela900 Absolute rubbish....total bull shit....My bike has sram red e-tap-hyper D67 wheels with specialized s works cotton tyres,selle italia carbon rail saddle,co-efficient handlebars. 7.4 kilo rim brake bike. I WILL PUT THIS UP AGAINST ANY TOP END BIKE ANYWHERE. I have more strava trophys KOMS what ever i have also a LOOK 695-a wilier cento 1 ait-and a brand new Storck aerfast 4 sram and DT swiss and bollocks mate the Elves is simply the best all round bike for climbing TT and crits. You obviously dont know much about cycling.
About time someone stops leading buyers on with a good quality review that's objective and not just taking the $$$ for a good review.
In general, that's why I'm still sticking to things like Campy/Corima/Roval/FFWD/DT wheels vs "modern" Chinese sets. Whenever I feel tempted to buy one, I just do a quick search on hub issues and the temptation instantly goes away. As for frames, with the new-gen Chinese frame prices, I would just rather pick a Giant and sort out the BB preemptively (if needed). The quick iteration of all these wheels, frames etc. doesn't leave enough room for properly established and executed QA.
"Holds its stiffness for a long time" 🤣🤣🤣
Said the Bishop to the Choir Boy.....🤣
Shocking!.....they really just don't care.
COMMENTING TO SAY ALL MY FEELINGS ABOUT 1-PIECE EXPANDER BUNGS HAVE BEEN VALIDATED THANK YOU
Thanks for the warts and all video.
I love your righteous indignation
That bike build looks like a nightmare.
I had to hone out an undersized bb on my bike. But it was like $300 on Chain Reaction and from a random Belgian brand that went out of business. For ~$2000 I’d expect much better.
Ok I get they say they rushed out PTs frames, but not to other RUclipsrs..just PT got the rushed out bike seemingly…. Did the manufacture know anything about PT at all! If I’m sending a bike frame to this man its 100% definitely IS NOT the rushed out the factory quick bike frame😂😂. It’s a very good point PT makes at the start of the video, these days there is little between these mass market carbon framesets when it comes to ride feel etc, it’s more down to how it builds up and the perceived quality. If you sell it as a frame only, you know your customers are going to see all the quality pros and cons as they build up the frame.
Having built up 2 bikes from Velobuild a few years ago, it's the components and buildability that let these frames down, a lot. Comparing them to the frame components on my Cannondale and Canyon, they're just utter crap and manufactured from extra heavy, extra soft steel.
'Anyone' can make a 'good' frame these days, but just don't look too close, look at the pretty shape and the pretty colours.
Chief bike industry buster at work with Princess blanket counterpart - never stop what you're doing!
Hold on - not mechanical compatible? Screw it.
Reminds me quality wise to my $400 velobuild frame. Too tight bb area to fit a proper bb into. Plus many other things like rear wheel not being in the center axis of the bike, and many things more.
My arow seatpost now has diamond etching in it from the clamp, has me slightly worried if it is damaging the integrity of the post. Also had issues with the bb seals. And had the same issues with the bung plug. Apart from that I had very few issues with mine and not much issues building it myself. And it surprisingly rides well.
Yep. That sort of knurling is ridiculous. It will grip the seatpost, but by indenting it permanently. Terrible design. A grit blasted surface would be best.
@@PeakTorque looking forward to the follow up anywho, I opted for the 12 speed di2 for mine and had no issues with brake rub etc as the facing was quite good on my frame, do you think a new bung plug is advised ? Or do you think the one is usable ? I hand tightened mine and got no verticals slipping when compressing, interested to hear if carbon past stops your issue without needing to put too much force into clamping it in.
Interesting ascent bottom bracket, please let us know if it holds up against the hambini ones
ok, BUT, as a ''zoom out'' note, I really value the beauty of the multipart piece that goes into the fork tube. I understand everything you say and you're right of course, I just wanted to make a stop and appreciate that part : )
Watched the Gc Performance video and was impressed, maybe not so much now
oh god
Likewise. Was considering doing a full Chinese build. I’ve got a WT Groupset waiting to be installed and tested. Looks like it’ll be another frame 😂
“When i finger it like that” had to turn the sound down in the office after that!!!! Come on man! 😂
Thanks PT i almost bought one of those framesets but now i changed my mind.
was the “it’s too tight” in the headset shim demo a subtle reference to Tyrone parking outside the bookie’s?
This is the man with 4 fingers and a suitcase, Vinny.
That's really disappointing, as this frameset seemed to tick everything i was looking for. But at this price point i would expect a flawless assembly experience, especially when you can get some frameset for only 2/3 the price that have seemingly better quality control. I really hope tavelo will fix their poor quality control
I wonder how you will eliminate the play from the headset. Have similarly designed chineese frame and in my case play and audible knock was present when hit the brakes and pulled the bike back and forth. Reason was this metal C-ring that you put on the top bearing had like 0.5mm play against the steerer tube. I put a tape on the steerer tube to eliminate that.
@@MichalMalpa yep good point. The c-ring is not designed properly like the old ones which would deform under preload and grip the steerer tight. This one seems too stiff but we shall see.
No way I will ever buy a frame like that
gc performance left the chat...
@RimBrakeKingi mean, he literally owns a buke retail store.
This is really sad, actually. Was hoping to get this frame.
What handlebars are on that rim brake tcr? Those look sweet. Like the Coefficient bars without the computer mount. I would love to get one if it isn't $400 lol
yeah was about to ask that question as well. We'll have to wait until he makes a video about them i guess. I was hoping to get cross-wing aero bars, but the ones in video look great too.
I soon will hopefully be talking about these as something i am proud to endorse. I have been testing them in TTs and they are game changing for my position. Faster on less watts. And by a huge amount, because they offer total wrist support without a silly increase in reach.
Look a bit aeroo to me..
@@PeakTorque Okay thanks! I know you said you would talk about them soon, but I'm impatient so I had to ask lol
@@DDai-qd8ukit is! 😂
i spent more time reading the comments here than watching the video... Dear Lord.... 🤐
Yikes. Good thing mine hasn't shipped yet.
My last "branded" bike was a rim brake Liv Langma (because TCRs are MAN bikes that only come in MAN sizes) with that awful non-chamfered TCR seatpost clamp that predictably kept eating seatposts. And as if that wasn't enough everything else is crap too? Amazing.
My rim TCR ate 2 seatposts. Now on its third, and its broken. But it hasnt snapped yet so just left it! Useless.
@@PeakTorque after the 2nd one Giant tried telling me I'm too dumb to use a torque wrench. fascinating that they still moved away from that FLAWLESS clamp design when it was user error all along 🤔
where is chinacycling ? we need a official rebuttal
they just commented
We talk about this in the next podcast. He gets to explain himself don't worry!
great video , well done, you just made some RUclips arm chair experts upset because they missed their chance to be honest when sold out
Not sure about longer head tubes - I’ve got a long torso and short legs, so a 56cm with a low ish saddle gives me (almost) the top tube length I think I need.
very good show case of the actual cost come with those smaller brand frames, still good value?
I am curious how a Gusto Evo Cobra would compare in build quality to to this frame...
at 9m40s, my wife choked on her coffee......
My Tarmac SL7 seatpost is also pretty tight. You almost don't need the expander wedge. But not this bad.
Great content as always. Just on the comment of 3D printed top caps I find that not an issue, most Chinese carbon bar manufacturers will have a 3D printed adapter pretty quickly. I put a relatively obscure avian bar on my equally obscure Elilee, all I had to do was email panda and they had it sorted in a day
That top bearing looks like an MR136 bearing, the same as in your TCR.
Lol PT you crack me up mate, keep it up, appreciate your effort into your vids.
if you strip the TA perm threads of the frame would a helicoil repairable be feasible? thinking out loud.
@@tubulartyre1700 yeh it would to be fair. But drilling and helicoiling carbon would be difficult. Would need at least an m14/15 helicoil to retain the m12 thru axle at a guess and then youre not getting left with much material
You are so excellent! Could you do this same sort of thing for perhaps a Cervelo Soloist? It takes mechanical and Di2. Keep up the great work!
watching Jesse / Nero sputtering thru a butthurt rebuttal is just entertaining af
And i was so looking forward to this frame 🫣
Hi Mike. Same, i still want to ride it because it will be marginally faster than the TCR so i will make it work! 😅
@@PeakTorquemaybe you should partner up with them and offer a rework program 😂😂😂
@@klein-conceptalready sent them all the feedback. Expect someone in the marketing department is getting their ass kicked for sending me one, rather than someone fixing the issues. But we will see.
You used to be a nice kid ,got a foul lil mouth on you like Hambini now,I approve!
PT taking a dump on Jesse’s new ride! 😂
They didn't QC the model name. They're gonna QC the bike?
Was actually considering getting this.
Is there a list of PT recommendations for good buys at various price points? :O Really appreciate this review!
Why is it so difficult to do a proper qc. Just give someone the right tools to sign off a checklist.
Good quality tat is the best kind of tat.
The super short stack was one of the things holding me back on this frameset …..now I can include a tedious build
Its fashion geometry. Designed for instagram, not biomechanics