Are You A Chaotic Stupid Player?

[@Laukaus11]

Chaotic stupid is that moment when you quicksave in an RPG because you're about to do something really dumb. Difference being that TTRPGs don't have save files.

[@JeremySmith-ve2ur]

The merchant enventory exploit in skyrim gave me the opportunity to learn that I am not powerful enough to take on every single guard in Riften while I'm naked

[@airiakizuki5592]

Was putting a bucket on their head patched out? Thats how i steal stuff

[@Einari1983]

"I used to be an adventure..." *quicksaves* Time to murder *EVERYONE!*

[@Madrock7777]

Psh I've never done this in any Bethesda game.

[@bezerkoid]

@@Madrock7777 so you have done it in non Bethesda games?

[@hoodwynk1389]

When you're the designated healer, you're more on the lines of chaotic stressed

[@The_Custos]

That would be a good video.

[@doombybbr]

Even more so when you are the parties get-out-of-dodge card and nobody is prepared to move into touch range so you can cast plane shift.

[@Nyrufa]

Players who think Clerics are just there to act as a medic are also narrow minded, because the Cleric has a limited number of spell slots. So in order to keep their stupid asses alive, the Cleric is being pressured into ignoring the majority of their own spell list, in order to slot themselves out with varying levels of Cure Wounds!

[@doombybbr]

@@Nyrufa You only need to prepare it once, you do not need to prepare it for each individual level.

[@sitarsenshi8512]

Our tank can't be healed by magic when he takes an adrenaline dice... I'm pulling my hair out as the healer

[@captainmanx5615]

"Could you light the campfire, please?"
"Fireball!"

[@zarnicolas]

Captain ManX omg I almost s$&@ myself after reading this. Thank you

[@GogiRegion]

(+Captain ManX) We had a Sorcerer cast a fireball in a library because they had an egg that we determined likely required extreme heat to hatch. They were lucky that it turned out well; the egg hatched and none of the books nearby caught on fire. They got kicked out, and my character had to read up on Phenixes (what it turned out to be) on their own.

[@lordnul1708]

Reminds me of the time this one mage tried to light a Drow stove with fireball during an out of the abyss run through.

[@metaKnightSpamer777]

please, read things magic users...
you should be smart enough to know that prestidigitation or however it is spelled can light campfires & it's a cantrip

[@dreamwolf7302]

similar vein
"We need light."
Mage: "K" *Casts Blinding Light spell*
On the plus side...the enemies within were sensitive to light...on the bad side, they had really good hearing and recovered before we did...

[@hqueso]

DM: Several lean, starved orcs in scavenged equipment approach you, desperate look in their eyes. The leader licks his lips and says, "Looks like we eat today!" They draw weapons
Player: My character rushes forward and starts to repair their boots!
DM: What? Why would you do that?!
Player: He's a cobbler! It's what he'd do!

[@madestmadhatter]

I want to know where this goes.

[@jeffreysian-salas1689]

@@madestmadhatter me too! I'm completely hooked by this character. More please!

[@wolfenstein652]

Why do we all want more?

[@hqueso]

@@wolfenstein652 I have no idea why, but here goes...
As Gorag’s tribesmen waded into the fray, he felt a sudden tug at his left leg. One of the invaders had latched onto his left boot, a strange tool in one hand. Before he could react, he felt a shift in his footing, and for the first time in his adult life, the pain in his toes disappeared.
“There, that should release the pressure on your foot. The toe of that boot is way too narrow for your feet. I’d guess you’re a Double-E and these are probably B’s at most.” The strange human stood, a smile on his face as the other combatants screamed, growled and brawled. “I can tell from their footing, the rest of your friends could use some help with their fit. Why don’t we stop all this fighting and get you lot set up.”
Gorag wanted to pulverize the creature before him, but the ache in the middle of his right foot made him take pause. “Human help Gorag with arch support?”
The human nodded an affirmative. “Sure thing! It’s what I do!”
And that’s how the Blood-drinkers of Yurtrus became the leading tribe in orc foot care, thanks to a feisty human who wouldn’t take “Roll Initiative” for an answer.

[@jokertim777]

@@hqueso Epilogue: Two evenings later, after all the boots of his warriors were repaired, Gorag picks up his empty drinking horn and places it under the cobbler's body which is suspended over the cooking pit. With a quick cut of his knife, he fills his horn, smacks his lips, and orders his men to light the fire and commence the feast. He walks away with a smile on his tusked face as the screams of the cobbler echo through the camp. His men shoulder each other aside to fill their makeshift drinking vessels as the last of the human's life spills from him. Thankfully he goes unconscious before the fire is lit and the camp is filled with the smell of burnt hair and roasted meat.

[@ThatSpecificIndividual]

Player: *chaotic evil*
I'm going to kill the guy.
DM: are you sure.
Player: yes.
DM: you could die.
Player: I still do it.
DM: okay, roll for attack
*kills guy*
*guards swarm player and is killed by guards when resisting arrest*
Player: *suprised pikachu face*

[@amateurishauthor2202]

What I'm about to Post actually happened:
DM: You see an active bomb attached to the floor by the wall.
Player: I kick the bomb.
DM: are you sure?
Player: yes.
Dm: It explodes
Player: *Surprised Pikachu face*

[@dracoslayer16]

Our Chaotic Evil orc sorcerer in 2e Planescape:
DM: The voice from the device start counting down from 10
Player: I ask the device why it's counting
DM: 9,8,7...
Player: Please stop counting you strange round glowing sphere
DM: 6,5,4 ...
Player: I pick up the device.
DM: You pick up the device, it's very heavy, 3,2 ...
Player: I run away.
DM: 1, The entire area within 200 feet is incinerated for 20d10 damage. You die, very quickly.

[@RainbowDashShadesOfApproval]

@@amateurishauthor2202 lol, I actually shot a bomb. It was an undead creation, and me being the first time player (wizard nonetheless) well if I use this spell, then it might counter act it... An entire block of a city blew up.

[@jeffreysian-salas1689]

@@RainbowDashShadesOfApproval on the one hand, I want to give you a hard time for this, but magic is more often an art form than a certainty. Stuff blowing up kind of comes with the territory.

[@RainbowDashShadesOfApproval]

@@jeffreysian-salas1689 Lol, true. But I have learned since.

[@ajbowers44]

I played an aasimar in a campaign and I thought it a logical leap to say that, since he was born with the ability to cast light as a cantrip, he probably has not gotten over his childhood fear of the dark. (I did discuss it with the gm and the party before I decided to play him that way) but it ended up being really fun! He would spam the light spell constantly whenever it was dark as a nervous twitch more than a conscious thought. Whenever we had to do something stealthy I had to either cast buff spells to remove fear or roll wisdom saves to keep myself from casting light.

[@Phiro00]

Austin Bowers im so stealing this with my aasimar

[@dizzydial8081]

What a neato idea.

[@randomgirll3123]

I think that’s really cool. It’s such a good character choice and sense it was talked out and everyone knew what to do it sounds like it made the story even more fun and just a little bit different.

[@Ainoskedoyu]

Really clever character flavor, they do get darkvision though...

[@Richterdgf]

I play a Fiend pact Warlock of a homebrew race that is a small, winged mammal. She essentially functions as the party’s annoying, flying, talking animal sidekick. She’s a HUGE coward and easily frightened or startled.
Even though she flies, she is afraid of heights because she could fall at any time.
Even though she has Darkvision, and later Devil’s Sight, she is afraid of the dark. Well, not really the dark, she’s afraid of what’s IN the dark.

[@lancepickett5653]

I had a friend that played a character with an intelligence of four (Original D&D), that she played not as someone without any ability of thought but instead played the character as an alcoholic so that the character could have flashes of lucidity but would lose her train of thought from time to time, and often would nearly always fail an intelligence save. She would not be stupid just because of a roll.

[@metallsnubben]

Lance Pickett That’s really cool actually!

[@EvilShadow7777]

I played a 6 Int character a similar way but I'd intentionally roll for some things like whether I know about a monster or about social norms. I rather enjoyed playing him, he was basically an insane Chaotic Evil character but he was tame enough. He was obsessed with the other party members and would basically be the creepy stalker/serial killer. He still worked towards the goals of the party and wanted to be more powerful but he was pretty untrustworthy in social situations and was generally insane.
Still never got into "Steal everything for no reason" territory even as a Rogue, more just obsessed with exciting fights and wanting to die a glorious death. I played him somewhere inbetween Hisoka and the Joker in attitude. Insane, Chaotic Evil, but he was still competent.

[@Mobax13]

@Lance Pickett That sounds like a really good way to incorporate the low intelligence.
I am currently playing a half-orc with an int. of 6. I play him off as naive more then stupid. It keeping with his backstory, he is unaware of many aspects of structured society. Additionally I made him fluent in Orcish, but less so in Common. This leads to some funny dialogue where he askes party memebers to explain large words, or unfamiliar phrases.
So far it's been going well, the party laughs at his struggles, but also appreciate his knowledge of survival and geography. He's not stupid, just uneducated and unfamiliar.

[@KickyFut]

@Jeremy West, that is a very fascinating concept I never thought of... Could intelligence just be explained by not speaking the common language, or is it solely based on your knowledge as a person... 😕

[@lancepickett5653]

I would hazard an opinion that with both Intelligence and wisdom as statistics that Intelligence is better looked at as the application of knowledge. Human Intelligence is a complex subject and is probably best handled by the GM and the type of play he wishes to play, but a low Intelligence being played as complete idiot would make it immensely difficult to even survive in any role in a fantasy setting. So I believe that playing it as not understanding the society, being naive, having a special circumstance such as dyslexia, or being a drunkard are viable ways to play a low Intelligence character.

[@DoctorLazers]

One thing I want to point out that I feel most people don't consider, "You don't have to care about the GM's grand narrative." Well sure, you don't. But it's kind of rude not to. Like, the GM has to put in hours and hours of work to run this game for you, the least you can do is to pay attention to and play along with their story. They wanna have fun too.

[@DuckieMcduck]

This is also a skill in the DM's part to leave some safety rails for players to not feel like they can easily break the narrative. Chaotic stupid though is listening to the DM say it's a bad idea and still doing it, it's like getting caught by the rail against the cliff and then saying you do a handstand on it.

[@ellambyrne]

I played with people who just tried to break the game and where suprised when my dm and I preferred playing with other people who actually respected the work he had put into it

[@DekuOfPower]

One of our players convinced our DM to let him be a Chaotic Stupid-aligned barbarian.
A month into the session, the rest of the party literally killed the character because he got way out of hand.

[@DolFan316]

It took them en entire month???

[@DekuOfPower]

@@DolFan316 it was a slow buildup. We tried our best to make it work, and generally have short sessions anyways (~3 hours).

[@nickwilliams8302]

@@DekuOfPower
You do know "chaotic stupid" isn't an _actual_ alignment, right?
What you are saying is that your GM agreed to let someone into their game who was outright declaring their intent to destroy it.

[@DekuOfPower]

@@nickwilliams8302 Yep. But house rules and all that. The guy's a good player, so the DM didn't see much issue with letting him try that.
Obviously now that isn't going to happen again.

[@nickwilliams8302]

@@DekuOfPower
I think you miss the point.
"Chaotic stupid" is shorthand for "disruptive arsehole who shits all over the campaign and ruins everyone else's fun."
It's not an actual alignment that you can even _ask_ to play, let alone _actually_ play. This video is not about alignment.

[@froglv.2097]

I pickpocket the beholder

[@yargolocus4853]

...where?

[@kevingriffith6011]

@@yargolocus4853 It totally won't see me trying to steal it's eyeballs.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

Okay, but that's NOT it's pocket... Roll an IQ for "Beholder Anatomy"... or do you NOT want to know? ;oP

[@Oddmanoutre]

@@gnarthdarkanen7464 'Beholder Anatomy' requires two rolls: One against INT, to see if the character remembers the details correctly, and one against CON, to see if they can overcome their own revulsion and not heave and retch for one round.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

@@Oddmanoutre, WEEEeeeellll... It could be argued that "Technically" the Anatomy roll is still only a single roll... AND it's worth pointing out on the basis of "GM's fiat" that the Player CAN (doesn't have to) forego the CON-roll and just "let it go" as it were...
Just for the clarity, of course... (and the lolz... Never EVER forget the lolz.) ;o)

[@DTux5249]

Whenever your thief example shows up, I ask this:
"Has your character acted like this all his life?
They always say
"Yes"
My response
"Well then he died ____ years ago, because acting like that would've gotten you shanked by now"

[@Mathignihilcehk]

You don't even need to do that. Just role-play out that scene properly... and unless you're using a completely broken world, the strongest, most intelligent, and most capable individuals in the entire world will be surrounding your thief... because they serve as the royal guard. So yeah, you try as hard as you can to "disappear". Damn shame the guards all have true sight. And they instantly read your intentions from a mile away. And the rogue you didn't notice, who is also serving the king, sniped part of your hair while you weren't looking so now they can track you down to the ends of the earth on the odd chance you have a scroll which might allow you to teleport away...
And no, that isn't meta-gaming. It's called logic... because the most powerful individuals in the world would have these relatively low-tier abilities that can be used to out-maneuver almost any level of player...
Unless the player is level 20 or something... at which point, yes, you steal the king's crown. The king considers declaring a full-blown war against you, but he knows that he'd lose thousands of men, possibly have several of his cities turned to rubble, his kingdom would be wide open to attack, and all you wanted was a shiny hunk of metal. At that point, he would've given you the crown if you had asked, simply because he wants to avoid losing his kingdom over nothing. Granted, he might still be able to defeat you... it'd just cost way too much... unless he's evil, in which case he'd gladly sacrifice his men to get a shiny hunk of metal back. And unless you have a kingdom's worth of resources, you're still losing that war... after which, the evil king is liable to shackle you up in his dungeon to help fight off would-be-heroes. Congratulations. You've just become a minion.

[@DTux5249]

@@Mathignihilcehk "you don't even need to do that" implies that going through these steps would be much quicker/simpler then just telling them to f*#& off, which it wouldn't.
All that extra trouble would just pull the rest of the party through more annoying crap where they are undermined by the rogue/character in question, which is just as unfair as his asshatary

[@jeffreysian-salas1689]

@@DTux5249 I did this once, just give the players the choice to turn against the guy who is making your life hell. Then sit back and watch as the guy who is self-centered is turned on by those they angered. Epic battle between players ensues, and all you have to do as the dm is sit back and watch the hunt.

[@DampeS8N]

@@Mathignihilcehk If you are considering this, just kick the player out of the game instead, because that's what you're doing.

[@indulgencerofindulgence5970]

@@Mathignihilcehk This should always be the case, not only when a player is misbehaving. Even good players should be on edge if dealing with a court that is capable of establishing power over a region.
Want to save a group of despaired boys and girls of being forced in sexual slavery to a cruel master? The same master that architected their disgrace.. Even through they are begging you to not do that, warning that you intervention will worsen their situation? Ok, go ahead, i guess if you succeed escaping with your life and dignity, you get to brag about how you 'never backed up before evil'.

[@Azobrab3722]

The part about the thief made me think of Rocket in Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2. "What?, they were easy to steal!" "That's your excuse!?"

[@JorisVDC]

Yet, they play a different game: they are already on demi-god level.
It's like: I'm already level 30 and there are only 20 levels in the game.

[@jarcuadanantus28]

“I hit it because I'm stupid.”
That is my favorite sentence in the whole video.

[@michaelsinger5851]

shhttteewwwppiiiddd

[@sack1501]

That said, we've all had that one rogue that made the game hilarious without getting everyone killed

[@mitsi1995]

Try it with a changeling rogue. It is fun, walked into a vampire guild as one of my teammates who hates vampires (they were a ligitimate guild in the city)
And wake people up after they had drunken to much with their own face

[@pheonixfireblazer]

My party has a Catfolk rogue who is absolutely hilarious. He does things which are stupid but not dangerous.

[@mitsi1995]

@@pheonixfireblazer sound like a true cat!

[@MisterJasro]

Sadly, we also all had that rogue that single handedly killed a campaign

[@mitsi1995]

@@MisterJasro Any tips to prevent that? Im playing my first campaign.

[@ChemoshKamos]

"Go play with yourself" -Guy, 2019

[@kingcole5977]

Did he just tell me to 'F*** off'?

[@NiraSader]

“What were you thinking there?
...oh you weren’t”
Good quote

[@linkster5564]

This video gave me the inspiration to make a tsundere team player character "it's not like I wanted to help you kill the evil lich .." but secretly loves helping people.. Maybe a life cleric

[@jeffreysian-salas1689]

Damn, that's a good character. I created an npc that's similar to that, "it's not like I think of you all as my own children, it's just...I can't sleep well at night without a good workout!"

[@lynxfirenze4994]

That poor barkeep. That poor, poor, barkeep.
But yeah, Chaotic Stupid irks me too. I don't mind interparty tensions because you can't put a group into that close quarters and have it be all happiness all the time but there is a line and Chaotic Stupid is so far over it it almost crosses it twice.

[@KickyFut]

DM shoulda called foul... A person cannot hang by their tongue! It would totally rip off with far less weight!
The more you know! 🌈

[@StevetheWizard2591]

I have a character that's completely self-interested (CN Rogue/Barbarian), but even he's smart enough to know that having people on your side makes things easier for you.
If you're going to run a character that's selfish, realize that selfish people need more people around them than non-selfish people, because they like having people to leech off of. A kleptomaniac Rogue with an insane Bluff skill still only needs to lose to one guy's Insight check in order to go to jail, unless he's got people on his side that will either help him burn the town down or explain to the guards that, even though he's a bit of a dick, he's still more useful to the town out and about than in jail.
Lastly, if you're in a party with a player that's running a Chaotic Stupid character, acknowledge that your character has no real reason to tolerate this, and that you'd probably call the cops on someone acting like their character is, then get the guards involved.

[@SerenityM16]

Had someone rage quit during a convention game because I did a silence spell after his character interrupted me 5 times in a row and was mad the GM allowed it to happen

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

@@SerenityM16 (and anyone interested for the matter)... In my opinion, ANY POSSIBLE MEANS to get a "Chaotic Stupid" to leave the table is a good means to do so. ;o)

[@IAmDaedem]

This actually happened in my campaign. Chaotic Stupid player decided to rob the mayor's house. Had poor stealth, acrobatics rolls and got the attention of the guards posted outside who began to move into the building and sweep it for disturbances.
She killed one guard that found him in the mayor's study through the use of Thaumaturgy and 1shot him from behind but that attracted the other guard to her location and she attempted to hide by darting under the bed of the mayor. She rolled poor on her stealth and the guard saw her feet then the mayor looked under the bed and saw her face.
She managed to avoid arrest and make it back to the caravan her party were traveling with. The next morning a Lawful Paladin in their party saw the increased guard activity in the town and asked what had happened.
Upon hearing a purple-skinned Tiefling had broken in to a house and murdered a guard he marched them up to the caravan where she was sleeping and had attempted to disguise herself with some charcoal. They arrested her and took her back to the stockades.
Upon being questioned in the stockades by the mayor who had literally seen her face she claimed that it wasn't her and must have been another Tiefling that had also arrived in town at that very moment matching her exact description. She was promptly thrown in jail and the player was asked to roll a new character.
The only reasoning I got behind her decisions was "It's what my character would do." This video was like a light bulb going off and describes her behaviour to a T.

[@Zero-The-Hunter]

*Me, seeing the title while my character is trying to burn a dragon* Yes, I am

[@hollyfindlay4051]

Is that... A reference to anything in particular?

[@petrdavid7434]

Epic NPC man :D
"What are we?"
"Muggers"
"And what do muggers do?"
"They mug people"
"So let's MUG HER!"

[@AeonHero64]

I’ve tried DMing for players, not characters, that were “chaotic stupid.” Rather than saying “it’s what my character would do,” they would say “it’s what I would do.” They went around stealing from villagers and torturing the enemies I sent them, and then would slaughter them. I was really looking forward to DMing for these friends, and it was my first time being a DM, but after this, I cut all ties from them. I found out that they stole things from stores often and jokingly made bomb threats to the school. I have been wary to make new friends, let alone DM for anyone since then...

[@nickwilliams8302]

Sometimes this hobby reveals sides to people that you would prefer you'd never seen.

[@dragoninwinter]

Been there. Done that. People make characters based on who they are everytime.

[@DuckieMcduck]

Glad DnD has shown you clear signs to get out of poor social circles. I hope you've found better people to hang out with in general.

[@freddaniel5099]

Sounds like Guy has recently encountered "chaotic stupid". Term fits, I suppose, but I see the behavior he describes as simply 'selfish". Self centered and oblivious to the fact that the game is a social event with obligations... namely that you be considerate and respectful. Roleplaying is not a license to behave poorly. This should be "Rule 1".

[@thecasuallongsword]

Fred Daniel the thing is he is not even roleplaying. He thinks he can do it because his stats are good. Somethings nat20 can’t even do as expected.

[@MorinehtarTheBlue]

The term is actually applicable to something else entirely though. I came here to see if he was aware of it and would use the term properly. Pairing an alignment with stupid means simply playing said alignment in an ignorant manner. Lawful stupid is the most commonly used often centered on heavy handed lawful goods especially paladins.
Chaotic stupid often centers on chaotic neutrals who choose the alignment to do whatever they wish. So there is some overlap. But as you say it's a violation of the social contract. It's just ignorant play here.

[@Cameronthoughts]

Exactly what I was thinking. Ha ha ha

[@EndlessMystify]

I'm all open for letting my players behave poorly, so long as it remains an in-game thing and so long as they are aware that there might be consequences. Oh, your character has +200 pickpocket and rolls a nat20 to steal the crown? Well, to bad the royal assassin has +300 and also rolled a nat20.

[@MorinehtarTheBlue]

That's all fine an good but often that sort of play disrupts the fun of the rest of the party. It's the tabletop equivalent of griefing. And no one can guarantee a Nat 20 without breaking faith with party.
Incidentally Casual Longsword's allusion to over reaching players reminds me of someone I've played with. Trying to roll for something beyong the realm of possibility or believability is ridiculous and artuing about it was super annoying. It's not a bloody wish spell!

[@Battleguild]

I'm Chaotic Hesitant.
Whever I'm put on the spot, I enter 'Deer staring into headlights' mode.

[@shallowsins64]

Good video, chaotic stupid happens when people forget what kind of game they are playing.

[@0Fyrebrand0]

They've spent too much time in Skyrim, putting buckets on NPC's heads, stealing everything that's not nailed down, and killing all the guards when they get caught.

[@LordSathar]

Generally they are either autistic and only care about what directly affects them, or are just jerks who wanna troll your game and don't give a rat's ass about anyone there.

[@treed6038]

I think it is possible that kleptomania can be an interesting character weakness in which they can't help but take things from all the people around them. But it would have to be implemented by a player who can tell the difference between having an interesting character versus having a disruptive character.

[@TheTenshitobias]

ZZz kender zZZ

[@nickwilliams8302]

I agree that a kleptomaniac can be an interesting character. Just not an interesting _player character._
PCs in a TTRPG are members of a team. A keptomaniac would not be welcome in such a team.

[@treed6038]

@@nickwilliams8302 I guarantee I could play it and still be a welcome member of your party.

[@EvilShadow7777]

Personally I think some disruption is necessary from any interesting yet abrasive character. When we call someone "disruptive" in this community, we're usually thinking about people who try to take the whole campaign along rails meant for only them. However that fun chaos Guy describes is exactly disruption. The level of disruption and how its implemented is what really matters.
Just saying when I have my character attempting to steal a sign off a brothel before messing with some patrons in a window below him and vanishing into the night, it was clearly disruptive. Whole table was laughing and it only took somewhere in the realm of 10-15 minutes. Didn't affect other party members negatively and it was an unexpected twist for the DM which ended up just being a silly detour while we were inbetween missions.
I think the disruption we really hate is someone stealing from the party (Kenders are extremely hated for a reason) or trying to kill other party members. Messing with important NPCs during their speeches for seemingly no reason and stealing the scene from other players is also unwelcome disruption. If someone is visiting their long lost family member someone attempting to steal the show in some way when the DM geared that towards a certain party member is definitely negative. Helping that family member in a way that's insane but productive for the group wouldn't be though.

[@nickwilliams8302]

@@treed6038
Unless you're using some private, nonstandard definition of "kleptomania", no.

[@SnapDaddy96]

My buddy once played a Minotaur fighter, great soldier poor thinker str 20 int 4. His back story he was orphaned found by a legion on their way to war and instead of being killed the commander took him in, raised him as a soldier in the army as his body guard (nobody messes with the guy who's bff is a Minotaur). Well after several battles an assassin snuck into the camp and killed the commander, the men cast him out since he couldn't protect their leader. He then became a vagabond seeking his vengeance on the assassin who killed his "father" when he stumbled unto the party.

[@FatalKitsune]

Me, DM'ing Curse of Strahd. I have four players. The priest of the town of Barovia asks the party to kill his son, whom has been turned into a vampire and locked in the undercroft of the church. Priest just wants his son to be able to finally rest. Listening to him suffering, begging for blood has driven the poor man to despair. The party agrees, goes down and has a good fight with the vampire spawn. One of them says "I cut his head off and put it in a burlap sack."
..Okay.
For some reason, the other PC's don't stop him. He marches up the stairs and shows the priest his son's decapitated head as 'proof' that the deed is done. The player is utterly confused and dumbfounded as the priest responds with a mixture of despair and anger and the other NPC's in the church forcefully escort the party out of the building.
"How was I supposed to know he was going to react that way?!"

[@CptReaper0232]

I find the phrase "My character would do that..." can be part of the best roleplaying if done well. I had a character (ISB agent in an all Imperial party) who was in a situation where someone was pointing a lightsaber at him. He didn't know about Inquisitors and so attempted to kill what he thought was a jedi. I knew what the person was and that doing so would kill my character. I did not want to attack them, but my character would seek to kill any "jedi" without a second thought. I was disarmed and later rewarded for being a good agent.
I understand "My character would do that..." can be done poorly, but to dismiss it every time is closing doors to roleplay opportunities.

[@Jake007123]

It's basically using "My character would do that" in a non-excuse way what is good. If you do it as an excuse for doing something that nobody wants you to do (including the DM), then that's when the issues start.

[@otakushiro4381]

His comment that saying, "that's what my character would do, I'm role playing", isn't role-playing. He said that playing as your character, and not yourself, was method acting, and not role-playing, was contrite, and untrue. Becoming my character, "method acting", as he puts it, is the only way I can invest myself into a character. It's like playing a video game. You don't just sit at home, or wander around the village, because that's what you the human would do, you go on adventures, slay baddies, or good-guys if that's your shtick, because your character is a badass. If his point was, that some times, people take it too far in their role playing, not "you aren't role-playing, I hate you, stop playing D&D", then I wouldn't mind so much. His point, or at least how it came across, was that you can only have fun, if it's in a way that I think is fun, and if you do anything else, you're a terrible person. Your comment summed up my feelings towards his topic. He's talking about meta-gaming. I don't find that fun, but he's allowed to have his preferences, that doesn't make him a bad person. Good role-playing, is total immersion in your character and the game world. The more attached you become to your character, whenever something happens to them, or they achieve something you'll start to feel legitimate emotions, and joy. That's the most rewarding aspect of D&D, at least for myself, and it's what's kept me going back every time. (sorry for the long winded comment)

[@Jake007123]

@@otakushiro4381 Remember that roleplaying is a group effort. It doesn't matter how good you are at the acting of your character, if you are the only one having fun and you are ruining the fun for another 3 to 5 other people, you are being a dick. You will be very good at acting, but you still will not be roleplaying since it's a group activity. That's why I personally prefer people who are better at making everyone in the group like their character and their character actions and words way more than the one who acts their character the best.

[@redzgaming6880]

I played my Bronze Dragonborn Barbarian character (Earbender) as the comedic relief character and even HE was smarter than chaotic stupid PCs...

[@hypergrip]

We played a one-shot a while ago where the mission was literally "Steal the king's crown at his coronation". Luckily had nothing to do with a choatic-stupid player, but was a really fun heist movie style of game where our group of shady characters ended up forging a fake crown, abduct and impersonate the High Priest, cause a distraction during the ceremony, switch out the real crown for the fake one, and get out before anybody notices was happened. The "muscle" of the group hasn't the brightest crayon in the box, but luckily I play with players who know the difference between "not very bright and easy to confuse" and "bumbling idiot constantly doing the exact opposite of what a sane person would do".

[@dekuscrublord3737]

A buddy of mine tried to pull a number like that in the beginning. He rolled a nat 1. DM said he just tripped and violated the king.

[@madestmadhatter]

Thus came to pass the greatest romance of our time, the story of our king and his concubine.

[@dekuscrublord3737]

@@madestmadhatter Hard to be a concubine for someone that has a restraining order on you.

[@madestmadhatter]

@@dekuscrublord3737 Hard but not impossible, I have faith the king can over turn the player's restraining order.

[@dekuscrublord3737]

@@madestmadhatter It was just the one player, and the king was the one that issued it.

[@madestmadhatter]

@@dekuscrublord3737 sorry about that, got distracted while typing, and I figured it was the king just trying to keep the joke going.

[@YooranKujara]

"It's called being human."
*Is an elf*

[@blorfenburger]

Its like they think they can just "go back a save"

[@nickwilliams8302]

Exactly. It's like someone fucking around on a video game just to poke at the limitations of the game world.
Which of course amounts to treating the GM like a games console and the other players like crappy AI.

[@Random_Chiroptera]

That guy: well my chatacter...
Me: I cast Geas on this idiot to turn himself in to the guards, and speak only in verse.
That guy: That's not fair.
Me: Well, my character...

[@thecasuallongsword]

The players should have no problem killing another character. The GM should have no problem dishing out the proper consequences.

[@cambleirhazard1712]

Yep, that's what I mean, restrict that and you just fucked up the whole "freedom" that a RPG is based on at first place... That's called the "GM stupid" alignment. A good GM knows how to integrate any alignment to their story.

[@aluminatsulana]

Oh god. YES!!
One time we were in a forest, and came across some traps. I had the idea, of hiding in the bushse, setting off the traps from a distance, and ambushing the enemies when they show up, who were most likely around somewhere waiting for their trap to sound.
Well, all the other playesr agreed, and hid in the bushse. Except for one.
And I couldn't get him to do it. He didn't try to do anything different, he didn't prupose anything different. He just didn't want to to it.
Why? Because "That's how the character would act".
And stuff like that happens regularly in my group. it's realy starting to royaly annoy me.
I should send them this video

[@poilboiler]

Don't forget about its counterpart, the lawful stupid. :p

[@curvingfyre6810]

I know hes nearly all powerful, and we only have a few more minutes where hes weak to damage, and I know that I just watched him slaughter an entire villages worth of children for fun, but hE NEE ds A FAiR TriaL DamNiT

[@Jokuvaanjee]

I sometimes play Warhammer fantasy pen & paper. Once we had a story where we were traveling with a ship's crew. The Captain of that ship was corrupted and working for the chaos forces, he was sabotaging the crew and us all the time until we found out and killed him. He had been sending messages with pigeons to the enemy forces, those pigeons we're actually mutated and much stronger than regular pigeons in every way, for example they could find land even at open sea unlike regular pigeons... This gave me an idea.
We we're supposed to keep investigating what the Captain was actually planning for many days until we would get further into the story but my character suggested an absurd idea: "Let's take all the rope out of the ship we can, tie them up to one giant insanely long rope and tie one end to the pigeon and the other to the ship, then we release that pigeon and it should lead us straight to the enemies"
After all unlike regular pigeons those ones could find a way to fly even at open sea and were much stronger and could carry much heavier objects, such as rope.
Everyone agreed. Everyone playing thought it was too weird and hilarious to not try.
To everyone's surprise, it worked, no matter how much the GM hated the idea and made us do as many rolls as he could make up with ridiculously unlikely odds but. We succeeded, every single roll.
We made it to the enemy base.
And there right at the end of that campaign, we died, all of us, without ever knowing the story at all.
That GM never played with us again. xD
I guess we were chaotic stupid, but in my opinion that made the game more fun actually.

[@otakushiro4381]

Exactly

[@rayraffiki1856]

But the difference is you did it as a group. One of his points was group vs self. He's talking about one person being chaotic stupid which hurts everyone else who's playing cause they have to deal with the consequences.

[@imienazwisko6527]

Well, I know I'm a chaotic stupid _person..._

[@dmc8706]

Or maybe a monarch has somebody who has a level of awareness that is equal to our higher than the thieves level of skill
Or, "There's someone who can Nick the crown jewels off the head of the Monarch in front of 10,000 people... there is a 150,000 gold bounty on the head of that Thief" and now every true bounty hunter in this Kingdom and the neighboring kingdoms is on the hunt. They all know that they are looking for a legendary thief and they come armed to bear with the skills and Equipment specifically designed to counteract those abilities. If the Bounty is high enough then the bounty hunters might even have someone who will use the wish spell against this player Thief. It's in the game just like that crazy skill level is in the game

[@k-aw-teksleepysageuni8181]

I've DM'd for sooooo many chaotic stupid types in my life, that my DMing is corrupted....I wish I had better players in my town... :(

[@zengarou]

Ahh new players are the worst with this. First game I DMed for a new player, I thought, hey let's introduce them classic D&D style and start this out in a tavern.
The barmaid comes up to you and-
"I pickpocket the barmaid."
... What?
"I'm a rogue. I pickpocket her."
... Okay first of all, you're level 1.
"I wanna try anyway."
... You... Wh.... WHY.

[@smugbastardtv7786]

I'm new to TTRPG games and I'm loving the channel! I just finished my 3rd pathfinder session and I've grown almost addicted to trying to learn more of these types of game, how to make a better character and how to be an all around better player. And I have to say that your channel has gave me things to watch out for so I don't end up being "that guy" at the table (especially since the avg experience of players in my group is 10 years and I just started not even a month ago.) So thank you for making these videos and please keep making more!

[@CriticalEatsJapan]

"I want to steal his pants..."

[@leemeyer9395]

An adult sees your imauturity and attempts to stop you

[@GraHaz]

I recently had a dude picpocket my wallet from my back pocket while we were both sitting on a couch talking. In a situation where I am literally sitting on it and speaking to him he pulled it out and waved it at me.
And that's entirely the GM's fault (well techincally ST since it was VtM).

[@rasmachris94]

Most of the time people conflate character flaws with the chaotic aspect and use that as an excuse - if your character has kleptomania then that should be on the character card as a flaw.
Using chaos which is simply used to define not following the laws is rediculous.

[@Un_Popular_Opinions]

This is why lawful evil is a better archetype for thieves.
Personally, I like the mix and match approach to an assassin/thief with lawful neutral.
That whole personal code thing.

[@GaleCobolt]

What about a Chaotic Neutral thief who doesn't care for laws and also doesn't about good or evil. A character who does what they want but understand that there is a time and place

[@epicfail5473]

@@GaleCobolt So they're Natural Evil?

[@GaleCobolt]

What is Natural Evil?

[@epicfail5473]

@@GaleCobolt *Neutral* Evil.
I'm illiterate, my bad.

[@Un_Popular_Opinions]

@@GaleCobolt Lawful Neutral can also fit your play style. I try to stay away from stuff like "respectful of authority" or the whole "believes in strong, well ordered government".
MY whole shtick is that personal code part. "The lawful neutral being normally sees law and order as of prime importance, with the well-being of the group put ahead of the individual on almost every occasion."
That law and order? My own personal code. I get to carefully write out what it is in character creation. I hand a copy to the DM. I follow it to the letter. Last one I played was an odd jobs assassin whose whole edict was "Get The Job Done." By any means necessary.
It also stated I would not steal from my employer, would not misuse my compatriots. It felt lawful evil but it was just a job. The next one could have had me acting like I was chaotic good.
The job devolved into my party using gas bombs to knock out a whole guard tower so that we could drag them off and heal the lich that was in charge of giving us money and quests.

[@nicejungle]

The best line to always remember : "Roleplay is group activity"
So True !

[@duhbghaill9306]

The story of the scorpion and the frog was echoing in my mind while I watched. Good video!

[@lemonicing7666]

For me as a player there's a balance: I like to play my character in some realistic manner of what they would do and how they would act. My character with a six in intelligence is going to make dumb decisions sometimes, but never anything that would critically affect the flow of the game. But it's also important to keep shenanigans to games in which other players and masters also enjoy shenanigans, never break the game. It's the DM's task to tell a story, not duct tape it back together when a players tears it apart.

[@lordkitchener967]

This reminds me of the time my party members attacked a welcoming dwarf king, and I decided it was a good idea to go back to apologize on behalf of my party.

[@asashahni9090]

Can you do a video on the moraly inflexible loyal stupid paladin ?! ^^

[@SerenityM16]

Michael Carpenter, enough said

[@KB-oh7xk]

Why do you need a whole video to tell you to stop playing with edgy players and dms who find linkin park suitable bgm

[@fhuber7507]

the Lawful Awful Pally is a trope that is based on poor playing of paladins.

[@asashahni9090]

@@KB-oh7xk but we need one for chaotic stupid 😱😱

[@curvingfyre6810]

I know hes nearly all powerful, and we only have a few more minutes where hes weak to damage, and I know that I just watched him slaughter an entire villages worth of children for fun, but hE NEE ds A FAiR TriaL DamNiT

[@dracone4370]

Will we also get a video on Lawful Stupid players?

[@mr.dantastic5073]

dracone
As in rules lawyers?
Or anal-retendent straight edges who play their characters to get everyone else to tow the line.

[@dracone4370]

@@mr.dantastic5073 Maybe those could be 2 of the subsets

[@curvingfyre6810]

I know hes nearly all powerful, and we only have a few more minutes where hes weak to damage, and I know that I just watched him slaughter an entire villages worth of children for fun, but hE NEE ds A FAiR TriaL DamNiT

[@mr.dantastic5073]

CurvingFyre
That’s a lawful neutral asshole.

[@0x777]

@@mr.dantastic5073 No, as in "how many people play Paladins".
Paladins are lawful good. More often than not, this leads to them being played as naive and kinda stupid. Being good and lawful does not mean that they run into every trap blindly or that they don't understand that there are people out there that lie, cheat and steal. They are there to fight evil, for crying out loud. That's basically their job description!

[@Frantasia]

I just realized that one of my co-players this campaign (my first time ever with d&d) is very much chaotic stupid. He always does shit that hurts others (npc or pc), just because his stats allow it. Right now, my character is incarcarated because he framed her for murdering the king because ???? Like. It just happened. And he decided to frame her.
My first character is about to be executed right in the beginning of the next session, if no miracle happens. And I felt bad for being a bad sport and being pissed as fuck at him (and the GM, who in the end is master of this world and could have prevented something so stupid from happening. And taking my character everything she has so she basically is back to level 1, but without her magic. Thanks everyone.)
I sound very salty in this comment. I am very salty. But I guess I am not that horrible of a person for hating that campaign right now, if not some miracle happens.

[@Elyseon]

You are absolutely right. It's the cahotic stupid's fault for doing it and the DM's for allowing it.

[@jeremiahpohl3596]

Talk to your DM outside of game. Casually explain your concern, and ask if the GM is willing to work with you on a possible way for your character to escape Death Row.

[@Frantasia]

Yes, I tried to talk to him, it's his first time dm'ing as well and the chaotic evil has played so many games, I think he knows how to play the gm. Honestly, since I don't expect the character to survive (even though I clearly voiced my dislike of things happening and might have mentioned that my character will definitely not kind to said chaotic evil if she manages to survive), I'll just be up for some great roleplaying opportunity, I mean, when will I have the chance again to be savage right before being publicly beheaded?! (Tbh, I don't have a problem with her dying, if it's because of my own stupid decisions or bad luck. It being because of somebody else is what really fucks me up.)
Making the best out of it and after that happened, I'm not so sure I want to play with these people, or rather this guy anymore. Other players, including myself, have complained about his reckless-I'll-throw-my-party-under-the-bus behaviour since our first session and nothing changed so far.
But thanks for your tips, I think were the cases less severe and I less done with this by now, this could possibly still work out.

[@jeremiahpohl3596]

Well. Good luck! My last suggestion then, is to ask your gm if at least your character can role play a few options while in their cell (if you had the option) and just have fun trying everything while you can. Otherwise you can always build your next character to be a Paladin, full lawful good, and be power built to counter anything this evil player might throw your way

[@epicfail5473]

@@Frantasia Talk to your fellow players, and then have everyone murder/trial that character as a party. You could even go so far as to have the other party members act as witnesses and recount his evil or selfish deeds, then accuse him guilty and, as a party, execute him. Then you don't need the GM and they can't escape mechanically.
Or you could roll him out like John Snow, its a bit savage though.
I'd say that a trial tends to work better since it makes the encounter more explained to the chaotic stupid player, were they went wrong.

[@candle9335]

I am absolutely a Chaotic Stupid PC which is why I prefer to be the forever DM.

[@xeltanni8999]

I don't know if I can get through this one...
*starts having flashbacks of all her Chaotic Stupid players*
... yeah, no, I'll just watch all your Campaign Creator vids twice to make up for it. I can't take this.

[@jeremiahpohl3596]

First words out of your mouth this video, and I just...sighed..

[@jameshenderson4876]

I'm not sure I agree with your suggestion that the player is giving up agency. That is just the excuse the player is giving to excuse his playing his character as a dick. Because the player wants to be a dick.
Unfortunately the answer seems to be to find a way to get that player out of the group...plenty of good players out there.

[@Tasfarel]

I feel you frustration, guy. in my time as a gm i encountered (and left behind) a lot of those people. I´m not talking about "imps" who are exited to try out their first characters an just want to explore the posibilites. I´m talking about those guys: "Yeah i´m a roleplayer forever and have a ton of experience.
There was this girl i met online some years ago when i was looking for some fresh wind in my group of players. She asked me if it was possible to play a shady charakter and i told her to go for it. The first thing she did when the party met an their very first NPC was stabbing and killing him. The other players asked her out of game if she was serious and she replied "Yeah, my character is evil" What followed was a storry about a former character setting fire to an in without reason and how hillarious it was that this character caught fire and fell into a barrell of oil. Me and my regular players where quite happy when the session was over and we would never have to see that person again.
Another "great" encounter with chaotic stupid was when we hosted a LARP some time ago. Two guys we knew at that time asked if they could join as some kind of Semi-NPC for some hour just to pass some time, to which we agreed. When they arrived they told us to our faces: "We´re absolutly great when it comes to breaking the plot. That is so much fun" (We had fun watching them fail when our players just ignored these jerks completly)

[@DM_Bluddworth]

I typically play a Chaotic Neutral character, and usually they are thieves, pirates, smugglers, or some variant of scum, but they had almost always been intelligent and or wise as well.
My most twisted creation was a Chaotic Evil Cleric, a Half-Elf female that was cute and innocent looking as a button. She hid her true worship of her Deity (Cyric, CE), and was very cautious of revealing her true nature. She was a borderline sociopath, extremely cruel and sadistic but only towards the creatures, monsters or humanoids that the group had fought in conflict with.
On one occasion the group encountered a goblin in a cage. The fighter and leader of the party had made a deal with the goblin, that if the goblin’s information was true, they would return to free him. If it were false, they would leave him to rot. My cleric lingered as the rest of the party continued onto the next room, and she cast a spell on the goblin, boiling him in his own blood.
The goblin’s information turned out to be true enough, but the leader of the group decided that they had traveled to far beyond that point, and there was an exit closer to their current location.... thankfully he wasn’t Lawful Good.
My cleric did commit an occasional murder, to appease her Deity, but she was always very cautious about it and usually killed someone that few would miss much or care if something did happen to him or her.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

Sounds like fun...
I've often found more satisfying gamesmanship in "instigation"... Like my being the only Evil character in a group of "do-gooders" who slowly and subtly edged them toward more and more violent, disturbing, and depraved activities in the campaign... We were supposed to be fighting against a network of evil cultists... AND I was justified in the group as a mercenary type (made no secret of being there for the money)...
Over time, I just incrementally urged a little more and more urgency "for the good of King and Country" sort of theme... and around three or four months of play the Paladin's Player was explaining how to justify boiling children in oil in front of their parents to extract information about the temple... to the GM. (I thought that accomplishment rather remarkable, myself)...
It comes down to it, just don't disrupt the game. It's not a difficult thing to avoid... I try to justify my more malicious and disturbing goals through RP only so long as I add an element of INTERESTING, or FUNNY to the whole thing. ;o)

[@DM_Bluddworth]

gnarth d'arkanen I’m actually writing a more authentic, pirate themed RPG were PCs will work together when necessary but as they advance they may find other PC sometimes stands in their way for that advancement.

[@gnarthdarkanen7464]

@@DM_Bluddworth, Yep, been there... I've even rather enjoyed being the PC who "critically betrays the Party" when the GM needed (or wanted) one.
I will admit, I generally prefer some form of "the game of subtlety" on a personal level, but trading notes with the GM and occasionally finding avenue for "reckless folly" are reasonable side-gigs, when done well (enough). ;o)

[@DM_Bluddworth]

gnarth d'arkanen if you don’t mind, why don’t you sub at my channel if you haven’t done so already. I’ll be uploading some videos in the next couple days I think you’ll find interesting.

[@jamestanzer9188]

@@gnarthdarkanen7464 Wow, that's EEEEEEEEvil. Did the Pally lose his powers that campaign?

[@SuperTamaru]

One of the character I play has an intelligence of 12, but a wisdom of 9, so what I did was that I made her a bit slow on drawing connections. As she was eating a burger in a tavern (because of course we have burgers in 5e), a devil was coming out of the floor, which caused everyone in the vicinity to get a bad gut feeling. My character, with her wisdom of 9, thought the food was bad. She doesn't always connect the dots, but when she does, she's pretty brilliant.

[@GTwander1]

We had a chronic CS aligned player who died and rerolled so often that we used his name to measure the length of time it took to lose one (about 1.5 sessions). Thing is, his flubs we're so epic, so unbelievably crazy that we told of his legend to new players in our group and games simply weren't the same without him.

[@timothybeebe6382]

Recently found your channel. I like the intelligent next level advice you give to people. Leading the game since 2005 it is nice to gain different insight.

[@thefirespectrum]

First action of first session in my first campaign: "I hug the frightened child and say 'It's going to be okay'. While hugging him, I search his pockets".
DM: "Did you just pickpocket a child?"
Me: ...
DM: *sigh* "Okay..." *Rolls dice*

[@reighzhor1058]

I played a rogue in a game where the GM at the start told me I was a kleptomainiac. When I asked what that meant, he told me that 1 of my skill points each level must go to Slight of Hand and that he would roll a secret check every now and then and tell me what I found on my person. I was a rogue in Pathfinder with 18 Int, so it wasn't so bad...until the festival day where they were parading the holy artifact through a throng of people and suddenly I had it. There were thousands of eyes on it, and I was able to get in there and take the openly displayed artifact with not one person noticing. How my character found out I had said artifact, was when a passing guard HAPPENED to notice a weird bulge under my clothing. I was arrested and had to break myself out of jail because he wouldn't let the others help. That was the last session I played that one.

[@VeggieGamer]

Random question by someone that has yet to actually play D&D (but when I do I don't want to annoy the other players XD), is it bad form to roll on your own stupidity if you think it could make for a funny character building moment? Like say if another player asks me to go buy some supplies, I roll without being asked to by the DM and get a Natural 1, my character gets the order incorrect like buying the wrong stuff or buying a ridiculous number of something? The character I have in mind is a Lizardman Barbarian, so may have trouble understanding how civilised life works, but I really don't want to step on anyone's toes by wasting money or messing up a situation in the name of character building based on rolling a 1.
I guess what I am really asking is, is it ok to enforce a roll on myself without the DM asking me to do it. This probably doesn't make much sense to anyone that has played D&D, so sorry if it is a weird question!!

[@rainick]

I've never been a fan of rolling to determine what your character will do. You should be able to figure out what they would do by basing it on their background, experiences and everything else.
It might make sense to roll if you know something, but the resulting action shouldn't be random. You should have a good idea of how your character would act. If your barbarian is told to find a tailor to replace your loincloth with... clothes. He might not know what a tailor looks like, or where they are. So does he ask for help? Does he wander aimlessly until he finds it? Something else?

[@VeggieGamer]

@@rainick Thanks so much! I really appreciate the answer! And honestly I think this is what I needed to hear. I kind of wanted my character's naivety to be comical and, on a very incidental level, disruptive in the name of humour, but your reply and this video really helped. Fact is, the thing that scares me the most about playing D&D is annoying the other players XD I would never want to tread on people's toes with something like this

[@travislyons9448]

I just had my buddy (playing the classic LG paladin) ,while spying on the King and a flunky (things were getting suspicious) , classically deciding to detect evil (3.5). So naturally when the aura’s of the King and said flunky come up as evil he charges into the king’s study ... inside the keep... swarming with guards... to smite... the King... he does so ... (lucky for him they were doppelgängers) so despite my urge to murder him (and the party for letting him do it ) i allowed the wizard to make a charisma check to convince the nightcaptain to check the King’s body before they were overwhelmed . Sure enough it was a shapeshifting menace . And that’s why you don’t write up 10 pages narrative for a session (probably won’t ever learn this lesson)

[@The_Custos]

Better would be to kill them via cop/guards, then they are cast as heroes who heroically died fighting to save the king. Propaganda.
Then make this story be mentioned in the next adventure. Their heroes paragons of self-sacrifice.

[@terinatum]

Please consider starting @10:45 or so and renaming it, "How to Avoid being a Chaotic Stupid Player." I think the limit of venom, in the beginning, will bring in those who need to hear this.

[@toothless420]

I had the dumb character defer to a smart one. The only problem, is they were both dumb. My character just thought he was smart cause one of his idea worked before. which was throwing the halfling on the roof. It lead to these both the character feeding off each other to come up with these insane plans for the other to just sigh and go; Yeah, no were not doing that. The we would just dejectedly follow, and pout. There is way to be dumb and have dumb idea without acting out on them. At least acting out on them in way that only damage the party minimally. Like bashing a chest open after the rogue failed to pick the lock. Being stupid is a lot of fun. After a few sessions the party was babysiting us rather heavily because if left to our own devise we would try to enact our plans. That make for fun RP, but you let the other plenty of room to interject. Be the comedic relief, not a burden.

[@kevingriffith6011]

Makes me think of Jester and Nott from Critical Role season 2. Nott's actually pretty intelligent (16) but tends to have bad habits like hoovering up anything that they can get away with and jumping to absurd conclusions, while Jester is kind of child-like. They come up with "great" plans and generally have to be talked down by their teammates to keep them from doing something too crazy... but sometimes there isn't anyone around to tell them no.

[@jarlbreadmaker]

Kevin Griffith why do you talk so ill of the great detectives of the Nein? :P

[@sachalessdarktide9813]

I once played with a chaotic stupid thief in our party. I was a chaotic neutral cleric. He was constantly getting into trouble. He died once...I checked to see if he had stolen from me. He had. I didn't resurrect him. He was like.."But I'm a thief! It's what I do. You have to bring me back." I let him know that next time he shouldn't steal from the only person who can bring him back to life. Then I left him dead and walked away. That player never stole from me again. So as players, we can give consequences as well. Don't always have to leave it up to the DM.

[@nickjeffery536]

In my long-running game, I play a Tieflng Sorceror who, when the game started, had joined an adventuring party after 10 years being pretty much a loner - she saw them initially as useful short-term allies. However, she has developed as a character, and now sees the party as friends, and has learned how to work as a team far better than she once did.

[@lord_terrorbeast2625]

You sound like the narrator from The Stanley Parable.
Great vid btw :-)

[@writer15131]

GGM: "Otherwise my friends would learn very quickly that I have the impulse to throw my coffee in their faces."
Me: Well, I've never done that. *thinks back to moment where my character threw holy water into the face of their vampire ally* ......then again.

[@chrisjames8979]

Wait a minute.
.
.
My party isn't chaotic stupid.
.
.
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We're just regular stupid

[@RolenTBard]

Currently have a Chaotic Stupid forest gnome rogue for a one shot that has had 3-4 different sessions now. Session 1 we got sent to find this Druid Lady, and after some other fun we found a house in the woods. Being the Rogue, I said "Yes, I'm going to climb up on the roof and sneak in through the chimney." DM said fine, but chimney is lit. Went with it because to late to say that now. End up failing check and fall into house while rest of team is talking w/ druid lady at the front door.
She didn't like me after this, nor I her. So next meeting we accidentally pissed her off ( looked for a towel to borrow, I might have stolen her rocks, and a few other things) and she sent treants after us. They were supposed to protect her home and kick us outta the area. I, thinking quick at the words protect her home, Jump onto the roof and lob a full bottle of lamp oil into the lit chimney (I checked this time). To protect the home, treants started throwing rocks at me to get me off. Put several holes in the house.
We escaped and Druid magicked her house fixed. This, however, is not the end and I will enact my revenge even if it means kill off my friends to do so!

[@rachelmcquade8910]

At our table with have a chaotic stupid character, played by a chaotic stupid person. She plays her bunny bard as a general moron, but instead of funny and charming it has become very very irritating. Do you have any tips for playing a low intelligence character while still being fun?

[@jeremiahpohl3596]

I'm not Guy, but personally like someone else in the comments. (This isn't you playing the character so it might be difficult. But making a character have a flaw, such as the commenter stating that they had an alcoholic character. So that sometimes they aren't dumb but they're drunk all the time so they can play off that very low intelligence

[@tobiasschwarzberger2267]

I recommend Looking at Grog from critical role. He is not exactly bright (Dont worry. I have an intelligence of 6, I know what I am doing), but neither is he a blithering moron. He is not good at strategising, fumbles for words, cannot read or even Count that high, but he is a generally well meaning guy who tries to do the right Thing Most of the time, at least. Essentially, he is not good at thinking, but he is there for the Party. Slightly bumbling but very lovable, Kind of like a bear.
Basically, as Long as the stupid is believable and within certain limitations, it can be incredibly endearing. But if you Play the obnoxious Kind of stupid, you annoy everyone else. The good Kind of stupid, in my opinion, is being somewhat childishly naive, not Picking up on stuff that quickly, etc, while the obnoxious Kind is more the "I cant understand your warnings cause I am too dumb and now I am going to do this totally suicidal Thing."
For the record, what Kind of stupid is that bard playing? Any examples?

[@mangaartist303]

Well, one way you can do it is by using other stats to restrain the stupidity - or at least make it hilarious for the party instead of irritating. For example, my husband once played a mystic with high intelligence, but low wisdom. He was incredibly smart, but he was super gullible - especially when it came to his "friends" - so there was some hilarious synergy between his character and the rogue of the party. One of the running gags that came about in that campaign was the mystic recruiting random NPCs to our cause. I am currently playing a character in the opposite situation: low intelligence, but high wisdom. I play it as "I'm dumb, but that sounds like a bad idea" kind of character. He may ask dumb questions, but he's also not going to throw the party into a chaotic situation (at least, not on purpose).
Personality traits are another good way of offsetting the nature that would innately be caused by stats or alignment. I had a bard who was actually high intelligence, but her flaw was that she was easily distracted by promises of knowledge. She ended up being an "absent-minded professor" type of character. I also had a chaotic neutral half-orc rogue whose flaw ended up being that he'd do what he was told, even if he thought it was wrong. While this seems like a contradiction, it actually worked quite well because the flaw doesn't specify that he has to do that with everyone. He did it in relation to the current mission (from his boss), so he would often go along with the antics of other characters, but I also felt comfortable refusing if it was too far off the beaten path or if I believed the character wouldn't agree to it (ie, pretending to be the elf's "hostage" in order to infiltrate a fey supremacist group).
Talking to the GM about an over-the-top character can also help because you can use the campaign for character growth. You can look at how events currently happening will affect the character. If that stupidity caused some chaos with a magic item, maybe now the stupid character is really careful around items they think are magical, for example. In other words, creating a personality trait that didn't previously exist in order to combat the destructive behavior.
Can't give specific feedback without knowing what the bard is doing, but that's what I got for general advice.

[@timd4524]

@@tobiasschwarzberger2267 Yes, Travis played Grog extremely well.

[@michaelwells529]

Another idea that could help is to look at other beloved stupid characters in media, like movies or tv. Think of your favorite idiot and determine what traits make them more endearing rather than annoying and follow those. One who comes to mind for me is Kronk from Emperor's New Groove. He is a moron, but has a big heart and still helps drive the narrative forward, which makes him my favorite part of the movie. He even has hidden skills like the ability to speak squirrel of all things, so your character can have similar talents. Stupid does not equal annoying.

[@robertyoung1317]

I happen to be a tattoo artist as well as a GM Guy.... Don't temp me to see if my players will all get your list tattooed on their arms.... Lol

[@DavidStream_]

Sharing this in regard with my current game with my players, I was looking for this for awhile. Glad it's posted here.

[@madestmadhatter]

I generally play a character who's a more literal type of chaotic stupid, he works with others and doesn't intentionally attempt to cause trouble, but he will intentionally try to solve the problem at hand in the stupidest way possible.
For instance, me and my companion were driving down a road in the middle of the night and we see a suspicious old lady on the side of the road trying to flag us down, my companion is at the helm and says he doesn't want to stop, so I consider that this might be some type of trap tell my companion to speed up the cart while I tie my boot to my rope and use it to knock her unconscious as we drive by, another time I bugs bunny-ed a young guard to set their barracks on fire during a raid so "the enemies won't discover any of our secrets", in reality this caused a portion of their units to turn back and handle the fire making the raid much easier... He also licked the tallest building he could reach in every city he visited to claim it as his own, so mixed bag.

[@christophersteele9133]

Whaaaa!? If you give the party freedom, then chaotic stupid characters work themselves out quickly and organically. 10k coronation attendees, and none of them have a high spot check? Where's the 15th level cleric of Heronious, the one with the 26 wisdom? Team mates don't have to heal you, resurrect you, or rescue you if they don't want too.

[@dracoslayer16]

One VERY important rule that most DnD books start off with that most DMs seem to ignore is that literally all of the "rules" in the book are optional and open to interpretation. If some mechanic of the game is becoming an issue for your entire group then it can sometimes be a good idea to agree as a group to do away with such rule or often times modify said rule. If someone in the group often exploits game mechanics to their own gains at everyone else's expense then start changing the rules. "You rolled a Nat 20 for stealing the king's crown? You still fail." Not all actions are possible just by being really good at something.
Now if they had a plan in advance, and prepared a fake crown, paid a few guards, had a distraction to get everyone's attention at the right time, then yes, by all means try to steal that crown. No, you don't get to roll one d20 and have miracles happen.

[@LazyVideosGAME]

As much as I like to play evil characters, I usually just play Lawful evil because I like my characters having a reason for being the way they are. I would play neutral evil but only if the whole group is evil. Like a Neutral Evil Character that works as the henchman for a lawful evil one as a tool. Chaotic evil seems to be an alignment only fitting for NPC's because chaotic evil lets you, as the DM, let them basically do whatever they want. With brains sometimes, but only a bit Joker-like in that case.

[@Lionrhod212]

When I first started DMing my group invited some friend of theirs. I showed up an hour early to help him roll up his bard.
So after the labored process of stats, equipment and all that, we finally get the session going.
The bard immediately turns in the opposite direction that the party is headed, walks into the woods, dumps all the equipment that I just helped him choose. He then cuts down a sapling and sharpens the end into a spear. He heads off once again in the opposite direction of the party, thumbing his thumb piano as he goes.
As DM I turned back to the rest of the party: "So you arrive at the Keep..." The bard never returned for the second game session, but on a clear night you might hear the faint strains of the thumb piano in the vast distance. Or maybe he just wandered into a bog and drowned.
Often it's not the CHARACTERS who are Chaotic Stupid, but the players themselves.

[@TheZenithin]

I don't know if this a common thing but can you add something about the "let me play my character" guy.
At my table I used to have one or two guys that would make decisions (sometimes smart sometimes dumb) and if anyone was to suggest anything else. He'd shout "let me play my character" until people let him do the thing.

[@SerenityM16]

😭😭I wanna do the thing!! Let me do the thing!!😭😭

[@julienavelange3960]

If they keep commenting on his roleplay out of character then he's completely right to tell them to fuck off.

[@TheZenithin]

@@julienavelange3960 it's sometimes in character for simple stuff like harassing the shop keeper for a cheaper price. Out of character is when he's trying to backstab people basically by selling them out to guards and shit.

[@The_Custos]

The other players should "play" forcing his character to his knees and executing him.

[@gasmonkey1000]

Have you done one on Lawful Stupid and if not can you?

[@yargolocus4853]

@@----Jay---- That would be a paladin that can't break out of their morals. Literally a morrowind guard npc without choices.

[@SerenityM16]

Yargolocus Michael Carptender is my rebuttle to this bs

[@toddvogel8887]

Two things:
1: I am guilty of playing loner characters, but i always try to find a reason as to why they will stick with the party, whether it be that they think being in a group means they are more likely to survive or if being in a group means more jobs and more money, or just because they don't care enough to argue when the group asks them to come along. So yea, i play loners, but at least i don't do that crap with forcing the party to beg me to come along or ignoring the needs of the party, if someone is in danger i will help them. I play loners because i enjoy the idea of someone who doesn't want to be around others for whatever reason and grows fond of the group and grows as a person through the help of others.
2: On the whole "Steal because i can" thing, i do have a player in my group who does that from time to time. He usually doesn't steal from the party, but sees NPCs as fair game, even though he knows the rest of the party will try to stop him if they notice what he is doing. He once robbed a shop of all their potions even though he didn't know which ones were which, and then to cover his escape he turned a sword into a snake (Long story, basically Wabbajack) and ran off. As a punishment for that, he has no idea what the potions do and is afraid to get them identified because the party would ask where he got them, so when he is desperate for a healing potion, he has a chance of accidentally swallowing an alchemist fire.

[@marikroyals7111]

I have a player in my game who with every character he makes are stupid, who go off on their own or don't want to get involved.

[@clericofchaos1]

I agree with everything except the mechanically gifted. It's a fantasy game, with an emphasis on the "game" part. If you have a player who had created a character that can do something stupid with no possibility of failure, let them. They deserve a reward for being so skilled in character creation. As long as it doesn't hurt the rest of the party I don't really see a problem with it.

[@silvertheelf]

Me: “I’m chaotic, CHAOTIC LEROY JENKINS!!!!!!!!!!” *derpy face*
Nah, I play chaotic intelligent, manipulating the environment to do what I want and sometimes accidentally almost killing my own team.

[@holidayman9486]

My players are definitely chaotic stupid, they try to attack my NPCs even though they’re all aligned good and their backstories force them to help others. It’s annoying.

[@flamingsickle]

In one game, I play a bird guy who’s a bit naïve and gets his drive to help people from his mom who helped save the world in a previous campaign. Normally, I go along with the group just fine, but one instance stands out.
I flew ahead to scout out some weird goings-on the party noticed and found some travelers about to be eaten by trolls. My character saw people in imminent danger and immediately began to try to distract them but needed everyone else up there to save in particular the one guy who was being roasted over a fire. Oddly, the group seemed more keen on moving on than helping people even though they hadn’t been like that before.
Long story short, another player and I convinced them to come up, and everyone, even fire guy, wound up being saved (after some healing magic for the burns). The others seemed annoyed that I got them into the fight, though. (Then again, the one protesting the most was being cranky in general that night.) So I guess my question would be, is that being chaotic stupid when my character would need a very good reason to ignore people in need and had expected the help of the party?
In the end, they didn’t care because we got a sweet ride out of it all and experience for it, but how much is chaotic stupid and how much is actually playing to the personality of the character? I feel like a good-aligned character could be labeled chaotic stupid for trying to save people when it’s inherently dangerous to do so. Anyone have thoughts on how to play a good character when someone else is lazy or even just being a butt that day?

[@Methuselah1997]

Whoever doesn't join your character in the fight to save people shouldn't be your characters friend from then on. That seems like an easy way to teach someone not to be lazy just because of a bad day

[@flamingsickle]

Nott Ulfur VoV Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind. :) That would make sense for my guy, too, sort of a, “How could you not help that guy? How can I trust you to help *us* if we’re in danger?” thing.

[@xselinisx]

I disagree, a character/player can totally go out on their own and do something that only benefits them and still be a team player. Not everything has to be ABOUT THE GROUP.

[@Lionrhod212]

I think you missed the point.
Of course you can go out and do something that's all about your character. I usually run this type of thing in private, just DM and player to not waste group time.
What Guy is talking about is STUPID actions designed to be disruptive.
The idiot who decides to assassinate the quest giver or starts every barfight on the planet. Or tries to steal the King's crown during the coronation...
Did you WATCH the video?

[@josiahgerk8111]

I guess I'm first what do I win

[@Anxuta]

My like

[@everlast282]

My dislike

[@jameshenderson4876]

Win? How do you define "win" in an rpg?

[@SerenityM16]

James Henderson Not die or become incapacitated if you’re looking outside the narrative of the plot

[@everlast282]

James Henderson Finish the game. Kill the boss. Fuck the barmaid.

[@josh4601]

How to build a loner character correctly: You WERE a loner, got the shit beat out of you, at least one member of the party found you, and helped you survive and fought to keep you safe.
You have a severely strong bond with this character, and as much as your character would love to be alone, they are indebted, or they genuinely care about and love this other character (platonically usually).
Now they have a REASON to be with the party. And you still get to be your edgy immature, badly written badass who for some reason isn't a god in this world like you planned for them to be.
Sorry about that last bit, venting about a player i recently had lol.

[@DivisorOfZero]

That is literally how one of my Characters end up with a group however they were not a dumb character it was that a religious-sect was on a man hunt for them because they had the blood of a demon and was constantly having to hide. The cleric of their group helped my character out and they bonded emotionally very quickly so they still kind of dislikes a good portion of the group but will go along with stuff anyway to help the Cleric achieve their goals (Edit: This a world were tieflings were almost non-existent and anyone who ended up being one was treated as an outcast or killed, depending where in the world they were.)

[@stw7120]

Chaotic Stupid isn't when player has no agency over the character. If character was the one who decides he would be doing in-world reasonable things. Chaotic Stupid is when the character has no agency over the player. It is when character is essentially nonexistent, because if he isn't madman, he would have seen stupidity of all those typical situations. But there is no real character, no goals, no concerns about his fate. So there is no one to stop the player from being the jerk.
EDIT: there can be situations when you have character with strong moral codex or something like that, and it will dictate certain aspects of character behavior. It's very interesting to play. CS have nothing to do with that - that's just being a jerk.
Also, when your character completely stupid - it is a legit reason to do weird stuff. Just as insane character. But to not be a jerk you must have agreement with every and each person at your table that they want to play alongside a madman/an idiot. That can be really fun, but only if it's fun for everyone.
As example - one my D&D5e character had 5 Wisdom. That means that she's insane and never see thing as they actually are. She can fall in love with you or start to hate you for no reason. She might not see someone standing right in front of her or suddenly hallucinate about giant dragon in the sky. Her reasoning is far beyond what sane human can comprehend. BUT, she's completely loyal to the party and will obey any given command....as she will understand it. She's very fun to play, but only because every single person at the table love her sick reasoning and ready to deal with it.
EDIT2:Also, it's rather annoying to see the player act in opposite way to the character scores. If you can barely spek Common you really shouldn't suddenly come up with complex plans.

[@quicwaterr8527]

4 comments? 20 likes!?!? Omg

[@derekbroestler7687]

And just step up and be a DM... buddy of mine from years back was awesome about that.
PC "I'm gonna steal the crown from the king's head during his coronation for NO reason whatsoever!!!" (or some similar stupid murderhobo1000 / "wow seriously" stuff)
DM (warning ONE) "are you sure about that?"
PC ""Yeah I have (proceeds to quote stats)"
DM "Noted...." (warning TWO and final) "Go ahead then...."
PC "I roll a nat 20 plus I get (modifier, plus modifier, plus modifier)
DM "Are you a God?"
PC "wha?"
DM "A bright flash of light engulfs you from all directions.... you're dead"
Player "HOW???"
DM "Well, unknown to you the king has (insert whatever spell/blessing/enchanted-and-or-cursed-item/wish/WTF ever) which foiled your attempt before anyone even knew what was going on... In fact same (whatever it was) also has the possible affect of removing even your memory from anyone who's ever met you... including the party... "
You're transported to the astral plane.... in fact, you're not ACTUALLY... ALL DEAD... just trapped.... until one in your party can remember you....
Moving on...."

[@michaellanorby8713]

I think my issue is my characters aren't chaotic stupid, but I definitely am.

[@FlameLord050]

I disagree on the argument of its what my character would do. In my current campaign one of the players who normally plays a wizard, decided to play a half orc fighter with a dump in his int, and he is constantly trying to think like I wizard and isn't playing the character enough instead he constantly is over thinking and coming up with very complex traps. Example: he set a trap where he soaped up the floor causing the enemies to slip, slide and fall into a hole they dug, which had glass shards and oil at the bottom and then after causing the enemies to fall in the hole they lit it on fire.
While I loved the idea I wasn't sure how the stupid character came up with a complex plan (for the record the example I provided was much more simple than the other ones he suggested)