Thank you so much for a succinct video with HQ audio examples. No need to hear gear-heads drone on and on in other videos on this subject; you get right to the point. Thank you!!!
The Pseudo wet/dry is what I use and what I think sounds the best and most forward of these examples for the type of sound I personally go for. Awesome video man. Thanks for taking the time.
Thanks for the video, I've been out of the scene for a while but Covid lockdown gave me the time to pull some of my gear out and has resulted in a 3 amp hybrid wet/dry set up. The chain goes as follows: Guitar>vol/wah>ts9>SD-1 into Radial Twin City ABY. Twin City Channel A >Digitech rp500 FX processor. RP500 mono out to a NUX Atlantic Delay/Reverb(Parallel) running Stereo out to 2 solid state amps) Twin City ABY Channel B out is going into an Orange Microdark with a 12in. cab in the middle of the 2 SS amps. I'm tweaking the settings on the rp500 but so far this set up has provided a multitude of tone variations with minimal noise issues or phasing problems. Thanks again for the video.
@@GoodwoodAudio Very full sound. I'm mainly using the rp500 as a secondary pedalboard for effects only and the Orange dry with the overdrive pedals which are able to affect the entire setup. Volume set up between the 3 amps is a little tricky but once the levels on the rp500 and Atlantic are set a little below the Orange, it's massive. One of my stereo amps is also stereo, so when I hit the stereo footswitch it adds stereo chorus to the right side turning the 3 amp set up into 4 amps. Crazy stuff what covid lockdowns have done to some of us with our gear...lol
Hi Grant! Just want to know I’m a fan of GoodWood Audio and your gears! I have the “output”. I would have bought the interfacer if I knew about it before. This is my WDW version. 1. Empress buffer plus (w/ tuner output and boost), 2. Wet: tuner output of buffer plus to H9 and Collider (dual mono) to Goodwood “output” to 1 or 2 amps(wet). 3. Dry: buffer plus ‘loop out’ to guitar pedals back to ‘loop in’ of buffer plus to amp(dry). To add excitement; I added 2 loops in my dry loop using JHS switchback (loop 1: compressor, tumnus, jhs switchback, katana, tube screamer, phase 95, carbon copy. Loop 2: compressor, tumnus, jhs switchback, ricochet, Revv G3, OCD ge, super overdrive, eq). I was inspired by Mason and your WDW set up that I was able to build this rig. What do you think of this set up? Tnx!
Hi Grant! Can I use the PBC Mastermind 6x Insert Loop to split the signal to the dry amp and amp simulator? My dry amp is a Blackstar HT-60 Soloist and my simulator is a Boss IR-200. I saw in a video of Marengela, he was using the amplifier's speaker output signal through a line out box, but I didn't understand why. In this case, my amp also has an emulated line output. Another question is about my amp and cabinet simulator. Can I connect the line signal directly to the mono input and use the wet effects in the IR-200's effects loop? So in this case I have the IR-200's stereo output to complete the wet/dry/wet chain and send to L/R FOH. Is my reasoning correct? Thanks!
I didn't realize it had that - nice! You could run the 'pre' before your wet / mod effects, then mod/wet effects - then dream ('power amp') before you leave your pedalboard - I would AB test to see what sounds like better, but that would be my starting point if I was running mono.
Sorry - Not sure how I missed this! Totally depends on what options you want to get. But you are right - with a custom build junction / pedal, you aren't going to be paying $100 for a pedal if you have significant features. Feel free to email me at info@goodwoodaudio.com with your ideas and I can give you a quote!
This (and the whole set of vids) is tremendously useful. Giving me ideas for the Crate Powerblock I've used in mono for jams, travel, and pickup gigs. It has stereo ins and outs on the back and I've got a handful of stereo effects so: To the laboratory!
thanks for sharing your knowledge,i truly appreciate.I play electric guitar for 8 months and bought a Boss katana and i love it but i wanted to try real pedals so i bought the EVH mxr overdrive,i love it but the noise gate is not like i thought it would,i'm experiencing.So your channel is really helpful.Thanks again and keep up the good work
Thank you for the amazing video! Could I ask a question? In the last diagram where you just need one dry amp, it says I need two line mixers, one for the left and one for the right. Is there a product (like a dual mixer I guess?) that can perform the job of two mono mixers, so as to save the boars space? Thank you!!
RJM used to make a mini line mixer. We make these in our custom shop, but haven't come across a stereo line mixer for a pedalboard in a little while. have to be honest though, I haven't checked recently as much. Happy to send you a quote on a custom one if you like though! Info@goodwoodaudio.com if you want to chat through options.
Love it! I am kind of a newbie to routing signal paths but I am learning! I am looking at the Junction box as an option. On this video you showed a diagram of a W/D/W rig and they are labelled left and right mixer before going into the Output Box?
There are a bunch of ways to route WDW... the main two I see today are running series wet effects (easier to accomplish) and running parallel wet effects (better end result as far as separation between signals goes, but much harder to achieve as you need to split and mix down your signal as shown in the diagram). We do all in one solutions through our custom shop for this, but depending on how complex you want to go, this might not be necessary and you could use off the shelf mixers and splitters.
Goodwood HELP! lol. I'm going to be doing a W/D/W system using an Orange TH30 as my dry and an Orange Rocker 32 as my stereo wet amp with the Boss ES-8 as the brain of the whole operation. What I'm unsure of is the TH30 has a dirty channel and I want to use that as my overdrive channel but how did I get that to go back into the fx pedal so the "Wet" fx is colored by the dirty channel when wanted and then how do I mute the TH30 for ambient tones? LOVE your videos!
Thats a bit more tricky. Off the top of my head I'd say after your last dry effect to your TH30. FX Send back to board where you'd split your signal. One side of the split feeds wet, the other side goes back to FX Return, but before the FX return, make sure you have a mute. We could talk about this in more detail if you like. We could whip something up for you. info@goodwoodaudio.com. I think that should do the trick, but you might get a little bit of bleed when the dry amp is muted. Depends a bit on the amp.
Sorry, for some reason I wasn't notified of comments anymore. Depends on the amp you have... but it is doable, yes! Generally you'd have two power amps and use your dry amps preamp for dry and both wet outs... but there are a few ways you could approach this!
I hear you. A 'traditional' approach will give you much more flexibility but I can totally understand how if your amps are also monitors on stage that this could be frustrating to listen to depending on the setup!
assuming you're running parallel (and your dry amp is set to match the level of the wet fx at 100% - give or take - I'd start somewhere around 60% for both and then start tweaking from there.
I use a Two Notes Torpedo Captor 8 to tap signal from the preamp and power amp dry to my stereo fx blocks: modulation, Delays, Eventide Pitch Factor, Reverb into Stereo Two Notes Torpedo Cab M plus boxes into Mixer stereo monitors. One 3 channel Tube Head. Sounds great.
But you have to use two Cab Ms, because they are mono. And how do you hear your sound on stage? I would not want to rely on a sound guy unless he's a band member.
@@NikolausBrocke I use stage amps to hear and monitors. When I run sound, I have my monitors full stereo in front. My wet is dual Two Note Torpedo Cab M plus boxes. To dual Orange Micro Terrors. The Two Notes Torpedo Captor 8 send mono preamp/poweramp blend dry to stereo fx blocks that end up driving those stereo amps. I hear the dry amp mic'd up if possible. When I run sound every source is mixed.
@@NikolausBrocke my last gig I only relied on vocals in the monitors and drove my stereo amps harder. The Two Note Torpedo Captor 8 was used with my EVH 5150 III EL34 50 head. The output drove the Stereo fx into my stereo Orange Micro Terrors and Stereo Two Notes Torpedo Cab M plus IR DI boxes to PA. Sounded killer.
@@thepowellexperience4803 Interesting. You send your stereo fx through two Orange Micro Terrors for stage monitoring and the PA signal in parallel through the left/right Cab M+. Your dry signal from the 5150 goes through a cabinet and in parallel via the Captor 8 to the PA - correct?
I'm just trying out a wet-dry-wet rig.I have 3 amps into 4 cabs.This seemed to be the only logical way to set it up which..didn't seem right!!.Any alternate suggestions.(especially about DMR and Pipeline placement) Guitar-TC Polytune-EH B9-Wah-Exotic SL-Keely Filament-TC Sub Up-Keely Comp-Keely Dyno My Roto-TC Pipeline- Vol-Morley ABC Pro In: Morley ABC Pro A out-Egnater-Left and Right Dry 2X12 Cabs Morley ABC Pro B out-EVH-FX Send-TC Flashback Triple delay L-TC DittoX4 L-TC Flashback L-TC-Hall of Fame L-FX return:-Left Wet 4x12 Cab Morley ABC Pro C out-H&K-FX Send-TC Flashback Triple delay R-TC DittoX4 R-TC Flashback R -TC-Hall of Fame R-FX return:Right wet 4x12 Cab
Monster rig! I think the trickiest thing about this rig is the fact that you are very likely to get ground loops and potential phase issues. Double FX loops (for your wet effects) is tricky to isolate properly. Pipeline - this could go pre-dry split (like you have it now) and since it's mono it's really your only good option. So I think you've got that placement dialled. To put it in your wet effects you'd need it to be stereo. for the DMR it's the same deal. Since it's mono it needs to be pre-stereo (pre-dry split). I'd keep it where it is as well. There are honestly so many variations of this rig you could run it's impossible to cover them all here. Two of the biggest though would be running a master head for wet effects and stereo FX returns... this means if you ever got a ground loop it would be MUCH easier to troubleshoot. The other thing to try would be running your wet effects in parallel although that opens up a whole nother can of worms as they need to be able to do kill dry which currently your pedals can't do. It's a massive topic. Hopefully this has helped you out a bit though.
@@GoodwoodAudio Thanks for your prompt reply and insights and very informative videos(better than the "other guys show" on the subject IMO).To address a few issues you raised.The Morely ABC Pro has ,ground lift, polarity- reverse and isolation transformer on channel B + C.I also have a Radial Bigshot ABY which has the same..any thoughts on how to integrate the Bigshot if necassary.On a side note I also have a TC Sentry noise gate where do I place it?
@@dontuateytu2557 Nice! So you've already been thinking of ground loops / phase issues. Awesome. The thing you want to be able to do (in a perfect world) to isolate this rig is isolate ONE of your amps FX loops on the Send to Amp Input, From the FX send of that amp to the board and from the board back to the FX return. You also want to isolate your dry amp input as well. So all in all - 4 transformers (ground lift points). YOu don't need phase on every point, but ground lift options would be an ideal scenario. Without those you can't get rid of a ground loop in your rig when running it as complex as you are (2 amp fx loops plus a dry amp w/ 2 cabs). For the noise gate, I would try it in a couple of spots. Right at the beginning (this is helpful if your guitar is picking up lighting / room noise through it's pickups - more common with single coils), or after your dry pedals but before the ABC . This is better if your pedals are adding noise. I would start there and see how the noise gate performs / your preferences.
Do the dry effects carry over through the split though? Is there value in going guitar > splitter > ISO out to dry pedals > dry amp. Then using the direct out to wet?
If I understand correctly - the dry FX Feed the wet effects - this in my opinion - is the best way to do it as you get the sustain and artifacts of the gain stages carrying into the wet fx. If you run clean guitar into the wet FX (not what you're asking, but a common question) OR run your dry amp early so that its not seeing gain pedals - then it sounds like there is a disconnect in the rig. Not wrong, but to me it sounds weird. It's best understood by actually running the two signal chains and listening to it in the room.
@@GoodwoodAudio perfect. Just the answer I’ve been looking for! I’m on the verge of buying two cabs for the Milkman Stereo amp, but wanted to make sure I was squared up before diving into the purchase of those and the splitter. Cheers!!!
I current play all my pedals thought a Fender Tonemaster. Now your vids got me thinking of creating a Wet / Dry by adding a HX Stomp. I may just split my signal from a TU-3, one line running “dry” to the Tonemaster amp. Then the other line running to the HX stomp with wet effects. Then the HX Stomp would drive a FRFR speaker. Thoughts?
I did something very similar for years. FOH loved it, I loved it... it sounded amazing. I would suggest running your delay and verb in parallel within the HX though so no dry passes to your FRFR. Just wet.
@@GoodwoodAudio Yes, I was planning to run delay and reverb in parallel (either within the HX Stomp effects loop, or after it). Got the idea from Trey Anastasio’s recent rig. But your channel has really helped me understand wet / dry. Hoping to support Goodwood out of appreciation - any gear from you I may need? Thanks!
@@vikfm8655 Glad it's helped! No need to buy anything from us unless it's the perfect piece for your rig. We have a ton of cable options, junctions etc. But might have something fun for parallel effects coming in the next month or two!
doable. Just need to split that line out to either the FX return of the dry amp (if youre using it's preamp globally) OR split to FOH / DAW for the dry amp etc. Then you'd send from line out to your wet effects, split to stereo, wet cab inputs. The only caution here would be isolation (ground lift / phase) and making sure you've thought this through well before gigging with it.
In the one-amp setup at 4:35, why would the amp/cab sim go after the signal splitter (before wet effects) instead of after the wet effects? Love this series!
Some amp and cab sims just seem to sound a bit 'better' (subjective, I know) before wet effects. Iridium I've found to be this way, ACS1 does a bit better after, UA pedals can be in either place... Kind of like using your amp sim as if it had an FX loop (in a very round about way)
You need line mixers if you want to run stereo effects in parallel. If you were only running them mono, you would only need 1 line mixer. In short... The Left sends of your parallel effects go to 1 mixer (for a master Left output) and the right sends of all your wet effects go to another mixer for a master Right output.
Hi Grant, I started building my W/D/W pedalboard back in March 2022 and this series was a huge help and inspiration. Thank you for all the helpful vids! I’m now using a Morningstar ML10X for most of my dry effects for my mono effects then using a Gigrig Wetter Box to put my 100% wet Time-based effects in parallel. However, I’m a bit confused about what to do with my stereo modulation pedals that don’t have 100% wet/kill dry-especially my digital ones. I also have a UAFX Ruby in place of the Iridum in your setup in this video. AND the last pedal in my wet chain is a Strymon Deco on stereo. My main concern right now is that I’ve seen people online complain that digital effects will introduce a noticeable latency. But if that’s the case, you should get latency with the Iridium that delays your wet signal. Is a reverse phase switch on a splitter enough to correct this? Is the delay too small to worry about? Or should I move these effects before the splitter to avoid the difference between wet and dry, which would force me to only use them in mono? My next question is what to do about modulation effects in a W/D/W setup-but I’m thinking this requires a pedal by pedal answer, which could be great for a new video! (For example: 1) putting a vibrato on after a wet split will result in a natural chorus you may not want. 2) won’t a stereo chorus after the split sound wrong alongside a dry signal? 3) moving a stereo pedal before the split eliminates the ability to use stereo.) So I understand that the second question might be too big to answer here. But I’d love to hear your thoughts on the latency with a digital modulation pedal issue, especially with chorus. I’ve got a UAFX Astra that I am afraid I can’t use in this rig at all. Haha Thanks so much! Sorry for the long-winded question. I’ve been brooding this over for quite awhile.
Just answered my own question I’m considering it further: The latency on the Iridium doesn’t conflict with the dry signal BECAUSE your delay and reverb are both set to kill dry. So there’s no dry on the stereo wet to conflict with. So let’s just consider my second question about what to do with modulation: Where should I put a stereo chorus in this set up? I’m going to assume I can’t set my stereo chorus to kill dry since many (all?) can’t do that. So I’m worried about the dry signal conflicting with the chorus or another type of stereo modulation pedal. Many stereo chorus pedals give you a wet out and a dry out. I believe the Strymon deco works this way as well. And of course, the Deco or UAFX Astra will have some latency. I don’t intend to remove my time based effects. But it would be useful to occasionally hear the chorus without it going through 100% wet delay and reverb.
Hey Daniel. I'd actually try chorus in your dry chain. See what you think of it in there! This is more common than you might think...Since it has a dry component (like you mentioned) it can perform quite well before the split to dry out etc.
@@GoodwoodAudio Hi Grant, Thanks so much for the reply, despite the convoluted question! I actually just happened to put on the first episode of Chairmen of the Boards when I saw the notification. I'm thinking that chorus would be best before my dry split as well. My only hesitation is that I'll lose the stereo chorus, since my dry out is mono. Do you think that's a worthwhile compromise? The same thing would be true of my Deco and Uafx Ruby pedals. But going mono before my dry split would certainly get rid of any latency issues with these digital pedals, but a shame to lose the stereo effect.
@@danielrenton642 with this stuff I just do a ton of experimenting... But I'd probably start with some of those mod effects before the split...see what you think. THen add one at a time back into the wet chain and how they react/how it affects latency.
You need either a stereo mixer (that can independently mix the Left and Right side of your stereo signal or two mono mixers. check out RJMs mini line mixer!
Your splitter? Question! I have a MONO preamp for my guitar and running into my VHT 2502 power amp. I want to run the MONO preamp into a stereo L and R on the VHT. How do I do this?
For an ABY I could go from your last dry effect to an amp sim pedal then to the ABY. A out to dry amp input, B out to wet effects. After your last wet effect to your wet amp input. There are MANY ways you could do this... so many variations and options that covering it all in one comment is impossible, but the above will get you started!
Unfortunately not a simple yes or no answer. Depends on the context. In a studio... if that suits the mix - yes. If a live venue... maybe. Depends if that helps or hurts your mix / how the mains are set up in the room... It's all a whole lot of preference and context unfortunately.
yes, you can do that! You can also put iridium before your wet effects (after your last drive) and see if you like that better - I did a video on this not long ago showing the difference.
Hello , what is the interest of the "amp simulator" , Iridium Strymon in your example at 4:38 ? as the pedals are in kill dry mode , the amp simulator haven't impact ? can you explain me , i'm thinking i'm missing something
The amp sim in this example is running before the split to the parallel wet effects. So the amp sim is still the main 'amp' in this example even though it's running before the wet effects. It's sending the amp sim signal to all wet effect inputs, then the wet effects eventually go on to FOH. Does that make sense?
@@GoodwoodAudioThanks for your answers , i'm trying to understand , when you are writing "It's sending the amp sim signal to all wet effect inputs" , what i don't understand is that for me "amp sim" is like a Dry Pedal , so all impact/"caractere" signal of this pedal ( as CAB style, amp style) , will not been taking in to acount because it's will be "kill" by the "kill dry" mode of both pedal ( time line and bigsky, both are in kill dry you confirm ? ) . If i don't put the "amp sim" in the chains , what will be the difference for the sound in FOH ?
@@olivebach are you asking if you don't use amp sim at all? just direct into the system? It will sound pretty plasticy for lack of a better term. No body or saturation. Overdrives will sound terrible. If you're amp sim is in your dry chain (sending to dry out as well) the dry out will be the core of your sound and the wet effects layered on top. The amp sim on the wet effects is still recommended.. it will bring everything together nicely.
Great question. Mainly because the wet effects are in series. So they are feeding into eachother (delay into reverb into an amp - as an example). So if everything is in kill dry you will just get a VERY muddy / wall of sound type tone. Not good. You need to run them in parallel to run kill dry and have it sound clear.
We make mixers in our custom shop for this type of thing, but you might also have some luck with a premade mono one (using a couple of those). Check out Red Panda, Old Blood Noise, I think Behringer has some stuff as well.
unfortunately not. You'd need more on the splitting / mixing side of things! We do this in our custom shop quite often (an interfacer style box with 2x stereo loops that can be series OR parallel with the push of a button), but the Interfacer can't do all of this.
You could do stereo wet effects (in parallel) and send dry to both wet amps (in parallel). So this get's you closer, but it wouldn't be considered WDW. However, this approach would still give you some of the benefits of a WDW rig such as separation between wet and dry (dry line is preserved / separated completely from your wet / modulation effects), you could mute your dry whenever you want and still have a stereo image!
Depends on how you run your rig. "Dry" can mean a whole bunch of different things. I get what you're saying though. In this case "Dry" is the signal without any modulation / delay / reverb, but could also be referring to just straight guitar - no gain (another approach to running a 'dry' line). SO many ways to approach it!
@@gibson2623 thanks for the comment. There is so much grey area here, getting comments like yours really help me / remind me to clarify certain points / context.
Thank you so much for a succinct video with HQ audio examples. No need to hear gear-heads drone on and on in other videos on this subject; you get right to the point. Thank you!!!
probably because I don't know enough to drone on and on...
The Pseudo wet/dry is what I use and what I think sounds the best and most forward of these examples for the type of sound I personally go for. Awesome video man. Thanks for taking the time.
Thanks for checking it out!
Love the new podcast with mason and Brian
So glad to hear it! Thanks for checking it out!
Once you go down the W/D/W rabbit hole there's no turning back... The sound is addictive
Hard to explain though... parallel vs series, dry ouputs with muting, split before or after dry effects, line mixers haha. it's a big topic.
@@GoodwoodAudio yup. It really is a time vampire
Thank you for two very informative series - I've learned a lot and will go WDW :)
Awesome! Its a fun way to play. And there always should be more guitar in a mix so WDW is great for that too haha
Thanks for the video, I've been out of the scene for a while but Covid lockdown gave me the time to pull some of my gear out and has resulted in a 3 amp hybrid wet/dry set up.
The chain goes as follows: Guitar>vol/wah>ts9>SD-1 into Radial Twin City ABY.
Twin City Channel A >Digitech rp500 FX processor.
RP500 mono out to a NUX Atlantic Delay/Reverb(Parallel) running Stereo out to 2 solid state amps)
Twin City ABY Channel B out is going into an Orange Microdark with a 12in. cab in the middle of the 2 SS amps. I'm tweaking the settings on the rp500 but so far this set up has provided a multitude of tone variations with minimal noise issues or phasing problems. Thanks again for the video.
Sounds like an awesome rig! I bet it sounds huge with those parallel wet effects as well.
@@GoodwoodAudio Very full sound. I'm mainly using the rp500 as a secondary pedalboard for effects only and the Orange dry with the overdrive pedals which are able to affect the entire setup. Volume set up between the 3 amps is a little tricky but once the levels on the rp500 and Atlantic are set a little below the Orange, it's massive. One of my stereo amps is also stereo, so when I hit the stereo footswitch it adds stereo chorus to the right side turning the 3 amp set up into 4 amps. Crazy stuff what covid lockdowns have done to some of us with our gear...lol
@@grooveu1965 haha so true. As far as pedalboards go - Covid has been the best and worst thing.
@@GoodwoodAudio Bittersweet for sure.
Hi Grant! Just want to know I’m a fan of GoodWood Audio and your gears! I have the “output”. I would have bought the interfacer if I knew about it before. This is my WDW version. 1. Empress buffer plus (w/ tuner output and boost), 2. Wet: tuner output of buffer plus to H9 and Collider (dual mono) to Goodwood “output” to 1 or 2 amps(wet). 3. Dry: buffer plus ‘loop out’ to guitar pedals back to ‘loop in’ of buffer plus to amp(dry). To add excitement; I added 2 loops in my dry loop using JHS switchback (loop 1: compressor, tumnus, jhs switchback, katana, tube screamer, phase 95, carbon copy. Loop 2: compressor, tumnus, jhs switchback, ricochet, Revv G3, OCD ge, super overdrive, eq). I was inspired by Mason and your WDW set up that I was able to build this rig. What do you think of this set up? Tnx!
Hey Sidney. Thanks for checking out our stuff and the videos! Looks great. I like the switchback idea. Very cool.
Hi Grant!
Can I use the PBC Mastermind 6x Insert Loop to split the signal to the dry amp and amp simulator? My dry amp is a Blackstar HT-60 Soloist and my simulator is a Boss IR-200. I saw in a video of Marengela, he was using the amplifier's speaker output signal through a line out box, but I didn't understand why. In this case, my amp also has an emulated line output.
Another question is about my amp and cabinet simulator. Can I connect the line signal directly to the mono input and use the wet effects in the IR-200's effects loop? So in this case I have the IR-200's stereo output to complete the wet/dry/wet chain and send to L/R FOH. Is my reasoning correct?
Thanks!
Does the wiring diagram for W/D/W with 1 amp change now that the dream does have a 4 CM mode?
I didn't realize it had that - nice! You could run the 'pre' before your wet / mod effects, then mod/wet effects - then dream ('power amp') before you leave your pedalboard - I would AB test to see what sounds like better, but that would be my starting point if I was running mono.
Great info, and awesome examples. The challenge now just becomes cost... It's quite a bit of money for a junction box.
How much
Sorry - Not sure how I missed this! Totally depends on what options you want to get. But you are right - with a custom build junction / pedal, you aren't going to be paying $100 for a pedal if you have significant features. Feel free to email me at info@goodwoodaudio.com with your ideas and I can give you a quote!
Great video! Thank you!!!
thanks!
This (and the whole set of vids) is tremendously useful. Giving me ideas for the Crate Powerblock I've used in mono for jams, travel, and pickup gigs. It has stereo ins and outs on the back and I've got a handful of stereo effects so: To the laboratory!
Glad to hear that! Let me know if you have any routing questions, happy to help.
thanks for sharing your knowledge,i truly appreciate.I play electric guitar for 8 months and bought a Boss katana and i love it but i wanted to try real pedals so i bought the EVH mxr overdrive,i love it but the noise gate is not like i thought it would,i'm experiencing.So your channel is really helpful.Thanks again and keep up the good work
Thanks Francois. Appreciate you checking it out!
Thank you for the amazing video! Could I ask a question?
In the last diagram where you just need one dry amp, it says I need two line mixers, one for the left and one for the right. Is there a product (like a dual mixer I guess?) that can perform the job of two mono mixers, so as to save the boars space?
Thank you!!
RJM used to make a mini line mixer. We make these in our custom shop, but haven't come across a stereo line mixer for a pedalboard in a little while. have to be honest though, I haven't checked recently as much. Happy to send you a quote on a custom one if you like though! Info@goodwoodaudio.com if you want to chat through options.
Love it! I am kind of a newbie to routing signal paths but I am learning! I am looking at the Junction box as an option. On this video you showed a diagram of a W/D/W rig and they are labelled left and right mixer before going into the Output Box?
There are a bunch of ways to route WDW... the main two I see today are running series wet effects (easier to accomplish) and running parallel wet effects (better end result as far as separation between signals goes, but much harder to achieve as you need to split and mix down your signal as shown in the diagram). We do all in one solutions through our custom shop for this, but depending on how complex you want to go, this might not be necessary and you could use off the shelf mixers and splitters.
Goodwood HELP! lol. I'm going to be doing a W/D/W system using an Orange TH30 as my dry and an Orange Rocker 32 as my stereo wet amp with the Boss ES-8 as the brain of the whole operation. What I'm unsure of is the TH30 has a dirty channel and I want to use that as my overdrive channel but how did I get that to go back into the fx pedal so the "Wet" fx is colored by the dirty channel when wanted and then how do I mute the TH30 for ambient tones? LOVE your videos!
Thats a bit more tricky. Off the top of my head I'd say after your last dry effect to your TH30. FX Send back to board where you'd split your signal. One side of the split feeds wet, the other side goes back to FX Return, but before the FX return, make sure you have a mute. We could talk about this in more detail if you like. We could whip something up for you. info@goodwoodaudio.com. I think that should do the trick, but you might get a little bit of bleed when the dry amp is muted. Depends a bit on the amp.
Is it possible to run stereo with the effects loop or does it have to be through the front of the amps? Nobody talks about this at all.
Sorry, for some reason I wasn't notified of comments anymore. Depends on the amp you have... but it is doable, yes! Generally you'd have two power amps and use your dry amps preamp for dry and both wet outs... but there are a few ways you could approach this!
Great video. Personally i prefer pseudo wet dry only because I'd hate to have an amp there only producing delayed sounds or wet reverb.
I hear you. A 'traditional' approach will give you much more flexibility but I can totally understand how if your amps are also monitors on stage that this could be frustrating to listen to depending on the setup!
You guys are on 🔥👏🏽
In "Traditional W/D/W (with wet effects in parallel) what mix % do you prefer for those delays and reverbs as a starting point?
assuming you're running parallel (and your dry amp is set to match the level of the wet fx at 100% - give or take - I'd start somewhere around 60% for both and then start tweaking from there.
I use a Two Notes Torpedo Captor 8 to tap signal from the preamp and power amp dry to my stereo fx blocks: modulation, Delays, Eventide Pitch Factor, Reverb into Stereo Two Notes Torpedo Cab M plus boxes into Mixer stereo monitors. One 3 channel Tube Head. Sounds great.
sounds like some trial and error / finding best combo of gear would have needed to happen for that setup as well. SOunds like an awesome rig.
But you have to use two Cab Ms, because they are mono. And how do you hear your sound on stage? I would not want to rely on a sound guy unless he's a band member.
@@NikolausBrocke I use stage amps to hear and monitors. When I run sound, I have my monitors full stereo in front. My wet is dual Two Note Torpedo Cab M plus boxes. To dual Orange Micro Terrors. The Two Notes Torpedo Captor 8 send mono preamp/poweramp blend dry to stereo fx blocks that end up driving those stereo amps. I hear the dry amp mic'd up if possible. When I run sound every source is mixed.
@@NikolausBrocke my last gig I only relied on vocals in the monitors and drove my stereo amps harder. The Two Note Torpedo Captor 8 was used with my EVH 5150 III EL34 50 head. The output drove the Stereo fx into my stereo Orange Micro Terrors and Stereo Two Notes Torpedo Cab M plus IR DI boxes to PA. Sounded killer.
@@thepowellexperience4803 Interesting. You send your stereo fx through two Orange Micro Terrors for stage monitoring and the PA signal in parallel through the left/right Cab M+. Your dry signal from the 5150 goes through a cabinet and in parallel via the Captor 8 to the PA - correct?
I'm just trying out a wet-dry-wet rig.I have 3 amps into 4 cabs.This seemed to be the only logical way to set it up which..didn't seem right!!.Any alternate suggestions.(especially about DMR and Pipeline placement)
Guitar-TC Polytune-EH B9-Wah-Exotic SL-Keely Filament-TC Sub Up-Keely Comp-Keely Dyno My Roto-TC Pipeline- Vol-Morley ABC Pro In:
Morley ABC Pro A out-Egnater-Left and Right Dry 2X12 Cabs
Morley ABC Pro B out-EVH-FX Send-TC Flashback Triple delay L-TC DittoX4 L-TC Flashback L-TC-Hall of Fame L-FX return:-Left Wet 4x12 Cab
Morley ABC Pro C out-H&K-FX Send-TC Flashback Triple delay R-TC DittoX4 R-TC Flashback R -TC-Hall of Fame R-FX return:Right wet 4x12 Cab
Monster rig! I think the trickiest thing about this rig is the fact that you are very likely to get ground loops and potential phase issues. Double FX loops (for your wet effects) is tricky to isolate properly. Pipeline - this could go pre-dry split (like you have it now) and since it's mono it's really your only good option. So I think you've got that placement dialled. To put it in your wet effects you'd need it to be stereo. for the DMR it's the same deal. Since it's mono it needs to be pre-stereo (pre-dry split). I'd keep it where it is as well. There are honestly so many variations of this rig you could run it's impossible to cover them all here. Two of the biggest though would be running a master head for wet effects and stereo FX returns... this means if you ever got a ground loop it would be MUCH easier to troubleshoot. The other thing to try would be running your wet effects in parallel although that opens up a whole nother can of worms as they need to be able to do kill dry which currently your pedals can't do. It's a massive topic. Hopefully this has helped you out a bit though.
@@GoodwoodAudio Thanks for your prompt reply and insights and very informative videos(better than the "other guys show" on the subject IMO).To address a few issues you raised.The Morely ABC Pro has ,ground lift, polarity- reverse and isolation transformer on channel B + C.I also have a Radial Bigshot ABY which has the same..any thoughts on how to integrate the Bigshot if necassary.On a side note I also have a TC Sentry noise gate where do I place it?
@@dontuateytu2557 Nice! So you've already been thinking of ground loops / phase issues. Awesome. The thing you want to be able to do (in a perfect world) to isolate this rig is isolate ONE of your amps FX loops on the Send to Amp Input, From the FX send of that amp to the board and from the board back to the FX return. You also want to isolate your dry amp input as well. So all in all - 4 transformers (ground lift points). YOu don't need phase on every point, but ground lift options would be an ideal scenario. Without those you can't get rid of a ground loop in your rig when running it as complex as you are (2 amp fx loops plus a dry amp w/ 2 cabs). For the noise gate, I would try it in a couple of spots. Right at the beginning (this is helpful if your guitar is picking up lighting / room noise through it's pickups - more common with single coils), or after your dry pedals but before the ABC . This is better if your pedals are adding noise. I would start there and see how the noise gate performs / your preferences.
Do the dry effects carry over through the split though? Is there value in going guitar > splitter > ISO out to dry pedals > dry amp. Then using the direct out to wet?
If I understand correctly - the dry FX Feed the wet effects - this in my opinion - is the best way to do it as you get the sustain and artifacts of the gain stages carrying into the wet fx. If you run clean guitar into the wet FX (not what you're asking, but a common question) OR run your dry amp early so that its not seeing gain pedals - then it sounds like there is a disconnect in the rig. Not wrong, but to me it sounds weird. It's best understood by actually running the two signal chains and listening to it in the room.
@@GoodwoodAudio perfect. Just the answer I’ve been looking for!
I’m on the verge of buying two cabs for the Milkman Stereo amp, but wanted to make sure I was squared up before diving into the purchase of those and the splitter.
Cheers!!!
I current play all my pedals thought a Fender Tonemaster. Now your vids got me thinking of creating a Wet / Dry by adding a HX Stomp.
I may just split my signal from a TU-3, one line running “dry” to the Tonemaster amp. Then the other line running to the HX stomp with wet effects.
Then the HX Stomp would drive a FRFR speaker.
Thoughts?
I did something very similar for years. FOH loved it, I loved it... it sounded amazing. I would suggest running your delay and verb in parallel within the HX though so no dry passes to your FRFR. Just wet.
@@GoodwoodAudio Yes, I was planning to run delay and reverb in parallel (either within the HX Stomp effects loop, or after it).
Got the idea from Trey Anastasio’s recent rig. But your channel has really helped me understand wet / dry.
Hoping to support Goodwood out of appreciation - any gear from you I may need?
Thanks!
@@vikfm8655 Glad it's helped! No need to buy anything from us unless it's the perfect piece for your rig. We have a ton of cable options, junctions etc. But might have something fun for parallel effects coming in the next month or two!
How about pedals to amp > line out > fx / stereo out to stereo power amp > 2 wet cabs? The first amp is the dry amp.
doable. Just need to split that line out to either the FX return of the dry amp (if youre using it's preamp globally) OR split to FOH / DAW for the dry amp etc. Then you'd send from line out to your wet effects, split to stereo, wet cab inputs. The only caution here would be isolation (ground lift / phase) and making sure you've thought this through well before gigging with it.
In the one-amp setup at 4:35, why would the amp/cab sim go after the signal splitter (before wet effects) instead of after the wet effects?
Love this series!
Some amp and cab sims just seem to sound a bit 'better' (subjective, I know) before wet effects. Iridium I've found to be this way, ACS1 does a bit better after, UA pedals can be in either place... Kind of like using your amp sim as if it had an FX loop (in a very round about way)
Makes sense, thanks! I was kind of wondering about it being like a psuedo effects loop but wanted to be sure I was tracking. Appreciate the response!
Why are the wet effects connected to the 2 mixers like that ( each output of the pedals toward the input of 2 mixers )
You need line mixers if you want to run stereo effects in parallel. If you were only running them mono, you would only need 1 line mixer. In short... The Left sends of your parallel effects go to 1 mixer (for a master Left output) and the right sends of all your wet effects go to another mixer for a master Right output.
Hi Grant,
I started building my W/D/W pedalboard back in March 2022 and this series was a huge help and inspiration. Thank you for all the helpful vids!
I’m now using a Morningstar ML10X for most of my dry effects for my mono effects then using a Gigrig Wetter Box to put my 100% wet Time-based effects in parallel.
However, I’m a bit confused about what to do with my stereo modulation pedals that don’t have 100% wet/kill dry-especially my digital ones.
I also have a UAFX Ruby in place of the Iridum in your setup in this video. AND the last pedal in my wet chain is a Strymon Deco on stereo.
My main concern right now is that I’ve seen people online complain that digital effects will introduce a noticeable latency. But if that’s the case, you should get latency with the Iridium that delays your wet signal. Is a reverse phase switch on a splitter enough to correct this? Is the delay too small to worry about? Or should I move these effects before the splitter to avoid the difference between wet and dry, which would force me to only use them in mono?
My next question is what to do about modulation effects in a W/D/W setup-but I’m thinking this requires a pedal by pedal answer, which could be great for a new video!
(For example:
1) putting a vibrato on after a wet split will result in a natural chorus you may not want.
2) won’t a stereo chorus after the split sound wrong alongside a dry signal?
3) moving a stereo pedal before the split eliminates the ability to use stereo.)
So I understand that the second question might be too big to answer here. But I’d love to hear your thoughts on the latency with a digital modulation pedal issue, especially with chorus.
I’ve got a UAFX Astra that I am afraid I can’t use in this rig at all. Haha
Thanks so much! Sorry for the long-winded question. I’ve been brooding this over for quite awhile.
Just answered my own question I’m considering it further:
The latency on the Iridium doesn’t conflict with the dry signal BECAUSE your delay and reverb are both set to kill dry. So there’s no dry on the stereo wet to conflict with.
So let’s just consider my second question about what to do with modulation:
Where should I put a stereo chorus in this set up? I’m going to assume I can’t set my stereo chorus to kill dry since many (all?) can’t do that. So I’m worried about the dry signal conflicting with the chorus or another type of stereo modulation pedal.
Many stereo chorus pedals give you a wet out and a dry out. I believe the Strymon deco works this way as well. And of course, the Deco or UAFX Astra will have some latency.
I don’t intend to remove my time based effects. But it would be useful to occasionally hear the chorus without it going through 100% wet delay and reverb.
Hey Daniel. I'd actually try chorus in your dry chain. See what you think of it in there! This is more common than you might think...Since it has a dry component (like you mentioned) it can perform quite well before the split to dry out etc.
@@GoodwoodAudio Hi Grant,
Thanks so much for the reply, despite the convoluted question! I actually just happened to put on the first episode of Chairmen of the Boards when I saw the notification.
I'm thinking that chorus would be best before my dry split as well. My only hesitation is that I'll lose the stereo chorus, since my dry out is mono. Do you think that's a worthwhile compromise?
The same thing would be true of my Deco and Uafx Ruby pedals.
But going mono before my dry split would certainly get rid of any latency issues with these digital pedals, but a shame to lose the stereo effect.
@@danielrenton642 with this stuff I just do a ton of experimenting... But I'd probably start with some of those mod effects before the split...see what you think. THen add one at a time back into the wet chain and how they react/how it affects latency.
In the traditional wet dry wet you use 2 mixers after the wet effects , can you recommend reasonable good mixers that are not expensive to do this
You need either a stereo mixer (that can independently mix the Left and Right side of your stereo signal or two mono mixers. check out RJMs mini line mixer!
Hello. Can I use jhs ab box as a mixer?
good question. Unfortunately no. you need a mixing circuit to mix two circuits. Typical AB boxes don't include this.
Do you recall the wet settings used around 2:20 (WDW)?
so sorry - I really don't. It's been a minute.
Your splitter? Question! I have a MONO preamp for my guitar and running into my VHT 2502 power amp. I want to run the MONO preamp into a stereo L and R on the VHT. How do I do this?
Running a mono amp into a stereo power amp (with a splitter or a mixer) still sounds mono, just louder.
Please help me regarding dry and wet routing using aby pedal and splitter directly to mixer (no amp)
For an ABY I could go from your last dry effect to an amp sim pedal then to the ABY. A out to dry amp input, B out to wet effects. After your last wet effect to your wet amp input.
There are MANY ways you could do this... so many variations and options that covering it all in one comment is impossible, but the above will get you started!
When running a stereo rig, i have two inputs on the mixer. Should i pin each one hard left and hard right?
Unfortunately not a simple yes or no answer. Depends on the context. In a studio... if that suits the mix - yes. If a live venue... maybe. Depends if that helps or hurts your mix / how the mains are set up in the room... It's all a whole lot of preference and context unfortunately.
Have question where can i put my iridium then interfacer? Delay - reverb-iridium in to interfacer? Or iridium-delay-reverb - interfacer.?
yes, you can do that! You can also put iridium before your wet effects (after your last drive) and see if you like that better - I did a video on this not long ago showing the difference.
@@GoodwoodAudio thank its a big help i just purchase an interfacer.
@@kimstep3153 awesome! Thanks for the support.
Hello , what is the interest of the "amp simulator" , Iridium Strymon in your example at 4:38 ? as the pedals are in kill dry mode , the amp simulator haven't impact ? can you explain me , i'm thinking i'm missing something
The amp sim in this example is running before the split to the parallel wet effects. So the amp sim is still the main 'amp' in this example even though it's running before the wet effects. It's sending the amp sim signal to all wet effect inputs, then the wet effects eventually go on to FOH. Does that make sense?
@@GoodwoodAudioThanks for your answers , i'm trying to understand , when you are writing "It's sending the amp sim signal to all wet effect inputs" , what i don't understand is that for me "amp sim" is like a Dry Pedal , so all impact/"caractere" signal of this pedal ( as CAB style, amp style) , will not been taking in to acount because it's will be "kill" by the "kill dry" mode of both pedal ( time line and bigsky, both are in kill dry you confirm ? ) . If i don't put the "amp sim" in the chains , what will be the difference for the sound in FOH ?
@@olivebach are you asking if you don't use amp sim at all? just direct into the system? It will sound pretty plasticy for lack of a better term. No body or saturation. Overdrives will sound terrible. If you're amp sim is in your dry chain (sending to dry out as well) the dry out will be the core of your sound and the wet effects layered on top. The amp sim on the wet effects is still recommended.. it will bring everything together nicely.
is it possible to do this with TWO BOSS KATANAS mk1? please someone help me!
If you're wanting to run wet dry it can! You would just need to use 1 for your wet amp and 1 for your dry amp.
Very clear
Why the pseudo wdw cannot go with kill dry?
Great question. Mainly because the wet effects are in series. So they are feeding into eachother (delay into reverb into an amp - as an example). So if everything is in kill dry you will just get a VERY muddy / wall of sound type tone. Not good. You need to run them in parallel to run kill dry and have it sound clear.
Cool video
What do you use for the right and left mixer?
We make mixers in our custom shop for this type of thing, but you might also have some luck with a premade mono one (using a couple of those). Check out Red Panda, Old Blood Noise, I think Behringer has some stuff as well.
Can i do a tradicional wdw with the tx interfacer ?
unfortunately not. You'd need more on the splitting / mixing side of things! We do this in our custom shop quite often (an interfacer style box with 2x stereo loops that can be series OR parallel with the push of a button), but the Interfacer can't do all of this.
@@GoodwoodAudio thanks you guys you're the best
What about wet wet set up ?
Do you mean a typical stereo setup with amps only at the end of the signal chain? If so, we've done some videos on those as well!
How about wet dry wet with 2 amps? Possible?
You could do stereo wet effects (in parallel) and send dry to both wet amps (in parallel). So this get's you closer, but it wouldn't be considered WDW. However, this approach would still give you some of the benefits of a WDW rig such as separation between wet and dry (dry line is preserved / separated completely from your wet / modulation effects), you could mute your dry whenever you want and still have a stereo image!
A distorted signal is dry? I don t think so ;)
Depends on how you run your rig. "Dry" can mean a whole bunch of different things. I get what you're saying though. In this case "Dry" is the signal without any modulation / delay / reverb, but could also be referring to just straight guitar - no gain (another approach to running a 'dry' line). SO many ways to approach it!
@@GoodwoodAudio Ok, fair enough. Thank you for your explanation....Got it ;)....
@@gibson2623 thanks for the comment. There is so much grey area here, getting comments like yours really help me / remind me to clarify certain points / context.
@@GoodwoodAudio My pleasure....Thank you ;)
After hearing that comparison... I'll never play mono again in my life. NEVER!
1:23
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Fix your voice mate
ya - Have slowly gotten better. This video is pretty old ... Those early vids are pretty rough in many ways.