When you say you don't want it after working on it - I was thinking it must be a nice car while thinking about your car fleet. 😂 Glad you clarified in the end it was not because it was too good and lacking quirky factor 👍
@@criticalevent why would anyone convert a perfectly working gas car to a range anxiety, house fire waiting to happen, battery car with less range than if it was a gas car.
There's a company in Canada called Edison motors that does conversion from regular pickup trucks to an optimal version of this. They replace everything including the drive train and the motor is replaced with an industrial generator that is actually set to run at its optimal fuel consumption and power output settings.
@@Nderakwell, no. They are using diesel gensets not converting the stock gas engine. And vtrux 4.3 is known to be a fuel hog. They also are using e-axles with more power and larger modern battery packs. I think this truck is more a lesson in how good integration doesn’t fix poorly chosen components and poor design choices. Edison’s conversion program is steering clear of stock engines and slapping motors in front of transfer cases…specifically for the reasons Robert speaks of. They have two hybrid logging trucks, one done in this fashion because the didn’t have access to e-axles when thy were doing development work, and even it outperformed an equivalent ICE only vehicle. The other problem is use case… a ICE over electric hybrid isn’t going to make sense in every application.
@@NderakTheir planned specs are 60kwh battery and 350hp per axle. The intent is also to rebuild trucks after the end of the useful life of their original drive train rather than converting a new truck.
Fellow Vtrux owner here. Mine is black and an LT. I think there are fewer VTrux sold than you implied. I look forward to your teardown video as it may help me in the future to keep this truck on the road. Battery may be underperforming. Mine has a little over 40k miles, and I still get 40 miles on a mix of city/highway with the climate off. Climate control degrades range much more than you would expect and higher speeds kill range as you would expect driving a brick. I used it as a daily driver to work for years with a 40 mile drive and could make it home 95% of the time without the engine kicking on. Few notes: -The single motor on the transfer case gives you 4wd with minimal changes to the truck. Definitely the right call for Via Motors. The lash in the drivetrain makes me baby the accelerator from a stop. -It is slow and heavy (almost 7k lbs). I think the battery is too small to allow a larger draw. (c-rate) I find it sufficient for a truck though. Think you have to remember what batteries cost over 10 years ago and space requirements. They already shrank the gas tank to make this fit. (15 gallons) -The coupling is the noisy part on the drivetrain. When "idling" you can really get some rattle out of it. -You can start driving when the lights are still on the dash. Boot up is quick enough to turn on and just start driving. -The cooling system is insufficient. The truck will get too warm in a hot climate, especially if towing. -I just took a ~300 mile trip last week and got 20 mpg at 70-75 mph which has been pretty standard for me. This was as indicated electronically though, as I have not confirmed with gasoline fill before. My lifetime mileage is about 65mpg. -The truck has a "feature" to run on the gas engine for ~20 miles every 5 days. Calendar days, regardless if the truck has been run. Some excuse about the evap system requirement. -The generator revving up/down instead of a more constant speed for efficiency is a CARB requirement if you believe Via Motors. -I also look forward to the Ramcharger, but I would guess it will be about 5x the cost I paid for my VTrux with
Interesting perspective. The Ramcharger seems overbuilt in my eyes, I imagine that they could market it to the commercial sphere too. With 8 lug hubs and such a large battery, could be a boom truck, driller, vac, etc. For a regular person, your estimate seems better suited, but perhaps they just used what they had or maybe marketing
Thanks for your comment and information! I've had RUclips eat my longer and more educational posts quite frequently, with literally no signs of links. They particularly dislike these longer comments.
I saw what looked like a Chevrolet Express “blocking” a L2 charging station at a nearby university. Was all mad until I realized it was in fact plugged in and charging. Seems like this is a great concept that was about ten years too early. The automotive equivalent of the Palm V
I've always thought that an electric gas hybrid like this was ideal, like a modern train engine. I think the efficiency is just bad since you're converting at low efficiency from gas to rotational force, then converting that at a loss to electricity which again loses some to heat to get the voltage right for charging.
@@Tb0n3me too and have researched it some. The electrical conversion efficiency is usually over 75%, it'd suit a fixed RPM diesel engine the best (like a train) that could be tuned to be nearly 40% fuel efficient, not having the usual transient conditions a normal vehicle has to deal with.
@@mandrakejakeToyota highlander hybrid drive train is a better option than ranger extender generators. It has an independent rear electric motor and a gas engine that powers the front wheels directly with lower loss than a generator.
@@TechSurrealpotentially a better system, but you need a whole extra drive train to accommodate this, and lose a lot of the benefits of a true electric drive train mainly regen.
@@mandrakejake I was not comparing Toyota's hybrid system to a fully electric powertrain. I meant powering the wheels directly with an internal combustion engine is more efficient than hooking a generator to the same engine. Plus hybrid systems can have decent regen as well since it's just a matter of the electric motor, inverter and battery size and capacity.
Basically the same idea as the diesel-electric locomotives that have been powering our railroads for 70 years. There's a Canadian company doing the same thing for commercial long-haul trucks. Seems like a great concept if only someone can just get it right.
I found a battery powered electric locomotive in a catalogue once. It was capable of charging from electrified sections of line and would run off battery elsewhere, which seems like a really cool idea.
@@bewilderbeestie Electric and compressed air locomotives were (and in a few cases, are still) used in dangerous areas where steam, diesel and direct electric feeding (sparks) are too dangerous. I think I read that a steel mill in Germany still run 80 years old compressed air locomotives to haul stuff because it just works. This solution is also studied (and I think some are running) for tramways and trolleybus in Europe in order to remove overhead lines from historical districts. For busses, it has the advantage of making roadwork and maintenance easier since the bus can leave the usual path. But it come with complexity and higher maintenance than regular trolleybus.
Wabtec is in the testing process of a battery locomotive used with conventional locomotives to build a hybrid train set. It charges through regen breaking and delivers power to help climb grades. Specific routes have to be mapped and programmed else it could run out of power and stall on a grade.
@@LeSarthois Removing overhead wires for subjective aesthetic reasons is not the norm, it is very rare. Most historic city centers with overhead wires for streetcars and/or trolleybuses have the infrastructure for the best part of a century, sometimes even longer. Some components of overhead wires are protected historical structures, e.g. in Prague, which reintroduced trolleybuses just a couple years ago, after abandoning them in the 1970s.
I worked for VIA from 2014-2016. I can provide a lot of insight into some of the items you mention. We built about 300-400 trucks total if I can remember correctly. I was on the floor building primarily the trucks but vans as well.
Another thing they did wrong in hindsight, sounds like they didn't do any rework of the 4.3 to optimize it along with the generator module for efficiency. Part of the disadvantage of most combustion engines is that have to have a wide power band so that they work well off the line, accelerating mildly while at speed, and while cruising at high speed. The transmission can only accomplish so much so they have to work well at 1000RPM, at 4000RPM, and everything in between. If they chose an electric motor that ran at say, 3000 RPM, and then reworked the gas engine to run most efficiently at 3000RPM, they would have probably had something useful in retaining it. But they presumably didn't do this, so the 4.3 is throttled up and down in a way that is both inefficient and sounds bizarre compared to the driver's input.
Jep, and the engine is probably oversized now to. With the electic drive you shouldn´t need high peek power for acceleration / inclines anymore, just enough to keep the battery toped off.
A modern hybrid powertrain most certainly opts to limit the engines' peak output for maximal efficiency. If the engine's supposed to drive the wheels, it has high efficiency in most rev speeds, while if it's supposed to generate only, it has an insane peak efficiency in maybe 1 tiny rev speed range and just sticks there.
@@marvin1432 not sure I'd go quite that far, a common application of diesel-electric involves directly powering the drive motor from power generated at the genhead. Diesel electric locomotives work this way. Up until recently they were DC powered too, rather than using an AC system with batteries to achieve more efficiency. All that said though, the advantages typically revolve around being able to output more total power and required than just for charging the battery so that if the vehicle needs the extra power for inclines or other stressful situations it has it. For that to work though the final drive motor needs to be more powerful than the gasoline motor and genhead. They didn't do that in this case the final drive motor was weaker than the original powertrain and thus it was incapable of providing battery plus combustion power at the same time. This is kind of like hybrid 101 and they failed that. The concept they had in mind wasn't horrible but their implementation basically was. They didn't balance storage, generation power, and drive power in a way that actually makes sense for a truck. In some ways I'm reminded of that Oldsmobile arrived 350 cubic inch diesel that GM played with back in the late '70s. It was unsuited to just about everything, it did not have the power of a typical diesel, wasn't rated for towing, could only provide fuel efficiency, and despite the wider bore spacing of the Oldsmobile engine over the typical Chevy 350, lacked extra head bolts to ensure that the compression stayed in the cylinders. They even put the thing in to pickup trucks making trucks that couldn't tow because the engine was not rated to tow. In the case of that 350 fuel economy was the only requirement and while it achieved that, it was such a bad motor that they're virtually all off the road now. If they had used a final drive motor in this hybrid truck that had the power output capability of the V8 vortec engine while using this 4.3 as the power gen head and had the battery capacity to drive performance with both combustion power generation and batteries then it may have been possible to run the engine efficiently along with giving power to make the whole package work better. But for some reason they didn't do that. I suppose it is a step in the right direction as far as actually proving they can make a vehicle move down the road and achieve something, but it's certainly not an achievement to be proud of.
@TWX1138 The engine does not charge the battery. That is why the rpm goes up and down. I've been thinking about doing this as a mental exercise (I'll never do it). Charge the battery at cruise above 30 mph. If you're idling through town when it's needed, then charge at idle to 1500 rpm. Then stop the engine at lights.
@@alannitcher5001 From the video, it sounds like the engine DOES charge the battery, but only enough to keep the state-of-charge at a constant level, never allowing the state-of-charge to increase by more than a tiny amount.
Still the smoothest sponsor segment transition on RUclips. @@MrDuncl I can see vague hints of the right-most digit on the microwave display in some angles. I'm going to assume polarizing filter on the camera and unfortunate rotation angle but it could also just be a broken display. I've seen enough of Robert's videos and personality to know that the microwave was definitely used and the factor meal was definitely digested.
yeah honestly that's what I was thinking. Electric just loses efficiency when you require cooling and heating and will never be viable for heavy vehicles. If you could just have a bank of capacitors charged off of a constant load engine generator powering a direct drive axle electric motor then it may be more efficient. same concept trains use. The initial cost will be exorbitant and more expensive than just a ice vehicle.
GM already has a 2mode hybird for the silverado that has a EV motor in the transmission they made them from '08 to '13 these hybirds can get 25mpg if you drive them right. with it's 6.0L engine.
Reminds me of the Mazda MX-30 range extender. If you start with a full tank and full battery and drive until both are empty, you'll have gotten worse fuel economy than the near-identical Mazda CX-30 non-hybrid petrol powertrain. Mazda deliberately made their own EV terrible because they didn't want to build one.
Edison motors up in Canada is working on the same concept as this. But instead of adding a motor they are adding an e-axle which looks really cool. They have also already made a semi truck that is a series hybrid. Hopefully they can figure this stuff out in a normal size truck because the concept is great.
I am following both Edison Motors and Aging Wheels and kept thinking for a while they share some ideas (school bus). A collaboration between them would be really cool.
I have a friend who has an extensive car collection (mostly go fast cars) and is an original owner of a 1998 S-10 electric truck which Cheney made 500, sold 50 to specific buyers, and then destroyed the remaining 450. He has pulled it out and is replacing the batteries with modern technology and having batteries made to look exactly like the original batteries. Truck still looks brand new
Woah! Yeah those electric S10's were super rare. It'll be great with modern batteries, and weigh significantly less too, those had lead acid batteries if I remember correctly.
@@volvo09 yes he told me about them and what’s crazy is the battery box is huge and sits in the bed of the truck. He is keeping it looking all original
That is mostly what hybrids try to do but shitty clueless car journalists have been saying it's a bad engine noise for years to the point that car makers started making their engines vary RPM more to get around that 'stigma'...some even added fake gear changes which just serves to eat efficiency and tax parts needlessly
So basically this is a poor man's Nissan Leaf pickup... There was a guy in my country who converted old cars into electric cars, which had rather poor range, as he used lead-acid batte4ries. His "range extender" was a small two-wheeled trailer with small diesel generator...
On the hybrid or not topic, this Is "Technically" a series hybrid. as opposed to the parallel hybrids you're probably referring to in the video. most diesel locomotives are also series hybrids as well, with a small(ish) battery to buffer the generator power.
Today I learned. I just don't like range extended EV being lumped in together with other "normal" hybrids. But you're right, so I removed the rant section
almost all DC traction locomotives just have the motors (effectively) directly connected to the generator. AC traction locomotives usually just have a couple farad of capacitance.
Fun fact: Orion (out of Canada) made series hyrbid buses in the early 00s using the Cummins ISB. We had a bunch of them in San Francisco. Just like the Vtrux the diesel engine did its own thing and you'd only really hear it rev up on a hill (or while sitting at a stop light). Unlike the Vtrux they had well marked external kill switches. You can guess how well that went over with the youths.
@@francistheodorecatte and 1 farad is quite a big capacitor! I'm sure in these uses it doesn't provide much buffer, but for any other situation if someone specced a 1F cap, let alone 5F or 10F, you'd be like "damn what's going on!"
If you ever do decide to convert a truck yourself take a look at Edison Motors up here in Canada if you haven't already. They are mainly focused on building heavy-duty equipment right now but are also working on a conversion kit for regular pickups as well using a small diesel 4 cylinder as a generator. Also keep an eye on Deboss Garage here on RUclips who are working with them to show how to do the conversions.
As I understand it, Edison is "running" the light truck conversion program and promoting it, will be the parent company wholesaling and importing the parts, but DeBoss Garage was tasked with doing the prototype build, documentation, design, etc. DG will build the first one, sharing their knowledge with Edison to help them build their truck, then they'll start training the installers around the US and Canada to sell them to buyers and do final installs. But that's more complicated of an explanation than you said, which wasn't really "wrong" at all 😉
Theres one sitting grown up in weeds that I pass fairly often on my way to and from work I was very curious what it actually was and this video has answered that question and now I completely understand why its grown up in weeds
I have a regular at my parts house that had one. He loved it. Ran his land management and real estate company out of it and he had nothing but great things to say about it.
Another VIA owner a few comments up mentioned that, according to the manufacturer, the revving is an emissions requirement (presumably, because the catalytic converter wouldn't get to the working temperature otherwise). In reality, it's just a sign of a conversion that went halfway, then tried to patch the rest in software.
@@jailbird1133 Stop and go and downhill regenerating. If even ICE had TEG's on their disc brakes, it wouldn't provide much relief for the alternator dragging the engine.
@@Infinion a TEG on the brake is a weird way to do it, as TEGs are notoriously inefficient anyway. What mild-hybrids do is apply the braking force at the driveshaft, just like engine braking, but with the alternator/generator instead of the engine. That electrical power is used for starting the car, but also for pre-spooling the turbocharger and providing some from-stopped torque. All, in theory, to reduce the wear and strain on the engine whilst otherwise being a "normal" (and theoretically slightly nippier) ICE experience.
I drive a 2015 BMW i3 with a range extender - basically a two cylinder motorcycle engine acting as a generator. When cars are purpose built around the concept, it works quite well. Even used, I can get over 50 miles of EV only driving, and it's really zippy and fun to drive for only 170HP - not to mention almost completely silent if the air conditioner isn't running. The 2.5 gallon gas tank adds 100 miles of range, and the frunk is big enough to hold a 2 gallon jerrycan, giving me close to 250 miles of range with only a 22kWh battery.
The conversion kits are not designed for OTR. The conversion kits are designed for service trucks. And they have many advantages over this particular truck (ie would address most of his complaints about this truck).
Then you're an idiot. The two aren't remotely comparable except to show how far tech has advanced since this thing. Also this thing still works and pretty well for someone doing basic stuff with a short commute.
They missed a great opportunity to change M to H. Put it in H! The reason probably is that it’s a stock GM display. Looks just like the one my Opel had. Including M for manual mode.
My current company had a fleet if f150s with aftermarket hybrid systems installed. Recently we had them all removed due to lack of benefit, loss of capability, and no improved mileage. I firmly believe in hybrids and such systems, but no one designs them to best fit the vehicle other than the manufacturer.
Gas engines are absolutely terrible at low speeds, especially starting from still, for trucks that are going to do that a ton moving around worksites, or idling, a hybrid system sounds like it would be superb, but I guess not if they aren't engineered correctly. I'd love to see how a Chevy Volt style hybrid truck would be.
This concept works with the right applications, in SEA they have diesel electric cars: small battery about 40 miles range so in the city your all electric and at faster speeds or longer distances the 4 cylinder diesel kicks on to run the electric drive train directly through the battery giving about 40-50 MPG depending on the size, weight and speed of the car. Much like a hybrid economy car but the difference is all electric propulsion and the engine runs at one charging speed and does not rev up and down with load.
I have to admit I was excited to see this review. I worked on these trucks and vans in the development and early manufacturing stages. initially as an assembly Tech, then took on a Battery re-work position and eventually worked as the manufacturing Engineer. I was always frustrated that they did not work out the bugs and actually put it into production. In fact, based on your review it sounds like the de-rated things even more - We had done side-by-side towing races with these pulling trailers and they would gap the stock trucks fast. I cannot remember if I worked on this truck but I am guessing it was one of the final ones that I would have had contact with. As far as I am aware, the suburban was never actually made. I left VIA back in Jan 2015.. Fun and sad to see this in the wild with a real-world review.
Watching this on my tv at home while the cicadas make their noise outside my house, I didn’t even notice the cicadas in his background because they blended exactly with the ones in my own background 😂
I love the theory and effort behind this. But man, the power and battery are disappointing. That's a real shame. Oh well! You should still get one and upgrade the battery and drive motor.
@@jordandumer School buses are mandated in NY by early 2030. They are 4x expensive than a diesel school bus. The school I went to has one that was given to the school for tests. I noticed our local school bus budget was turned down by the voters. They weren't willing to see a bus cost 400K vs 150K for a diesel bus.
I drove a 2015 Silverado with a 4.3 v6 4x4 on caliche roads running all day in oilfield/windfarm conditions for 150,000 miles before we got new trucks. I averaged 12mpg for the life of that thing. So a fleet utility getting 20ish is absolutely insane.
I think another thing to consider with a vehicle like this is idle time. A lot of service trucks spend hours idling with crews waiting or taking breaks/lunch in AC. It's why the Ford hybrid police explorer saves so much fuel, though the hybrid explore doesn't have much better economy than the regular explorer. A big reason I like my hybrid minivan is because I spend a lot of time in school lines.
Man I love your vids! Full disclosure: a lot of the stuff you cover I don't even care about. I watch because I like hearing your humorous take on everything. I can relate to many of your frustrations on ridiculous engineering designs. Keep it up!
0:40 I spent way too much time wondering and waiting for you to explain what that "radar"-dish on top of the roof of the car is. Somehow I did not notice that it was only present in some shots 🤦♀️ 😂
At least it turned up. Mitsubishi was promising a hybrid/range extender version of their L200 at least a decade ago and it still hadn't arrived when they pulled out of Europe in 2022.
@@MrDuncl Maybe but the L200 was the most popular pickup too. Mind you I still cannot fathom why Mitsubishi pulled out of Europe when they had, as you say, a massively popular PHEV AND the L200 AND a very loyal customer base.
@@stamfordly6463 might be something to do with nissan owning 34%. finland still has mitsubishi though and so does sweden so it's not like they're pulled out of all of europe
@@lasskinn474 I thought that myself initially but then Nissan themselves withdrew the Navarra and (I think) X-Trail which were their competitors for the L200 and Outlander. It's not even that they were making space for the third Alliance member because Renault doesn't have any cars in those two niches.
The drive system and the charger where made by TM4 (sub company of Hydro-Quebec). I was working at TM4 at the time VIA came with this project. We made less than 1000 kits if I remember correctly (probably under 500).
Is it me or is this damn good for a 10 year old truck! For a first gen this isn't bad at all. Mind you 10 years ago nothing like this existed and still doesn't today in a full sized truck
Great video! I have a similar relic, but then European style. I have a Mercedes Sprinter from previous generation, that was converted to electric. They made 300 to 500 of them before going bankrupt. It also has steel boxes with LFP in them around the driveshaft. But in my case, the (Siemens) motor is bolted to a regular transmission. Which is terrible because you cannot hear if the engine is still spinning when you release the clutch. But it is also great, because you can actually use the gears when the low amount of power (or torque) is not enough. It is a 9 seater and was also 2700kg on registration papers, and 700kg of that was the battery pack. I'm putting in 80kWh from a BMW SUV, twice the capacity and end up being lighter than original. It isn't fast either, but with the gears it should still do fine with some hills. And there is quite some room to boost performance with a different inverter. The Siemens motor is overqualified so for short durations you could draw much more power. They didn't bother trying to heat the interior for 9 people electrically, they just put in a diesel heater with a small tank. Which was probably better because the range with heating a van with all windows around on 40kWh would be terrible. And also in this case, the LFP batteries were required to work quite hard. But not as hard in this V/A truck.
I wonder what Robert would think about an ELR it's basically this but smaller and good looking. I have one and I love it, although I do wish it were faster. Mine pulls 132KW in EV mode and 160 in generator mode. It does feel quicker than it is, though, it feels faster than my dad's CX-30 which has 190HP. Mine also gets 38-40 miles of range when driving carefully.
@@bartismoellis1052 yes and no. They share a platform and engine, but the ELR has a completely different interior which is much nicer and way better looking than the Volt's, has extra power, adjustable suspension, and extra features like radar cruise control.
I was at Leno's garage the day that Bob Lutz brought the Via in to shoot the episode ob the Via. It was a great idea but in my opinion it was about 10 years too early. If these had been available a few years ago I could have bought a couple of hundred of these for my job at the Port of Los Angeles which would have been all off road driving at about 15 MPH and helped us meet the states rules on emissions.
@@KR-hg8be Yes, and even space for private toilet, shower and 'kitchen'. And all that for the low, low price of 380 bucks a month. But no generator noise, at least.
Wild. My dad worked for this company for the majority of my childhood. It was always sort of a funny affair that had really good intentions but couldn't quite get things right in the end(as you discovered). I remember he would pick me up from school in the vans while road testing them and we'd go out to abandoned roads and just punch it. Weird though that you mentioned that it was slow. My core memory as a kid was that the vans at least were wicked fast in a straight line compared to most vehicles on the road in 2016ish. My guess is that the ones my dad was driving around were in diagnostic mode and the ones they sold to fleets were intentionally less quick to try and get better range at the detriment of some features. The idea was super good but a bit too much in its infancy when they developed the vtrux for it to work, and by the time they got other stuff off the ground the company was already going under. Nowadays, a lot like other people I feel like edison motors seems to be finishing what they started and avoiding some of the investment pitfalls that plagued via. Seeing you review this reminded me a lot of my early days living here in utah. Serious blast to the past.
I kept thinking about how that think looks absurdly huge, and We didn't saw much inside but it looks like the cargo area is not that great. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that my puny, weak 60hp (and 112Nm) Citroën C15 has as much cargo room overall. Edit : I can't really find info abotu the volume of the closed version of the Vtrux, so if you know, for comparison, the volume of cargo in a C15 is 2,66m3 or 93.93 ft3 (if conversion is right)
@@crackedemerald4930no, trains don't depend on batteries, they run straight into the motors. That's less efficient than a mechanically coupled drive train for highway use. Series hybrids work better with bigger battery packs and bigger generators, so you can cycle the engine+generator less often and have reasonable electric range thereby saving fuel, also being able to use more grid (potentially solar) power instead of carried fuel. Even then they're still optimized for stop and go or hilly routes versus long flat distance, where regenerative braking actually can offset acceleration and uphill consumption.
I have an express van VTRUX in the shop right now. This thing has 2 OBDII plugs under the dash. I can floor it and watch the battery level drop. After 20 minutes of driving, the battery is in the yellow on the gauge and the engine takes over. It also has the check engine light on at all times with a P0621- gen. L circuit code. The alternator doesn't even have the cable running from the alternator to the battery. I am assuming that it was rerouted through the main generator, but now it has this code.
Bob , I feel like all these company's and people that build different E.V. type vehicles all help to get us to where we are today I feel the biggest advancement is the battery technology . of today who knows where we will be in 10 to 15 years
I love how there is an Edison Motors short paired with this video with Deboss Rich talking about the exact same drive train issues - and the solution. A VTrux with an eAxle instead of the current drive train might be nice.
After working in fleet and vehicle sales for years I have learned EVs are currently only for people who do not care at all about practicality and cost of ownership. Unless there is a major and I mean major increase in battery technology to lower the cost substantially (we are talking a 60 to 70 percent decrease in pricing), increase the energy held substantially (we are talking triple to quadruple the energy stored in the pack), and an effective 90 percent drop in recharge times EVs will never be a viable vehicle for most people. Hybrids are blowing them out of the water due to the lower cost of maintenance and lack of dependence on a charger that takes hours to recharge. All of this applies to cars unfortunately when it comes to trucks it’s a complete non start. Every fleet procurement department I have ever spoke to only wants dirt cheap maintenance, long term reliability, and something that can be abused by employees that will do everything imaginable to a vehicle they do not own. 8 years ago I oversaw a short lease of Tesla Model S and Chevy Volts the lease came due after 36 months and they lived the Volts but hated the Teslas. It boiled down to needing to charge to often and reliability issues with the Teslas. The Volts took all the abuse and miles and kept on going without issue but the Tesla cars had lots of issues not due to build quality (yes there was a ton of build quality issues but fleets don’t care if a dash squeaks) but to its EV design. They died in heavy rain, car washes, and constantly would run low or out of battery before the day was over so eventually they just pushed the Tesla cars out of use because they are not practical cars. The company doubled the volt count and extended the lease for all volts and returned the Tesla vehicles which almost all were dead. They aren’t the only ones that had these complaints it was very common and the company I worked for stopped offering long term leasing for them due to the cost of supporting these vehicles. Electric cars are only for people who are willing to deal with their expensive maintenance and lack of freedom and electric trucks are only for people who do not use them as trucks and see them as electric cars with all the same problems. TLDR; Electric trucks are not work vehicles and will struggle to ever be usable as trucks while electric cars are only for people willing to deal with high maintenance costs and lack of freedom.
That battery size is fine assuming it's acting like a good plug in hybrid, but this one isn't, it's not taking advantage of fixed engine RPM for peak effectiveness. Edit: I'm absolutely sure I replied to a different comment. Instead of deleting this one, I'm just going to double down on Chevy Volt appreciation.
Looks like the one I sold, especially with that truck topper. Was excited to own it in the beginning but glad to have moved on from it at the end. Looking forward to the battery teardown video!
I saw this video and remembered seeing that a Lordstown Endurance was up for auction. I went to confirm before mentioning it here and discovered that 1) the auction was closed because there appeared to be no way to title the truck and 2) you already knew about it and had been asking questions about the vehicle on the auction site.
I love the idea of Electric cars with a Generator, it's how PHEVs should be... but they put such a small battery in it! The idea of an engine driving a generator to drive motors to drive the wheels is so much better, it's literally how Diesel Train locomotives operate, hence how they're called Diesel-Electrics, but clearly this truck just isn't it
I agree, with all the complicated mechanisms that go into making a hybrid work, just making an EV with an onboard generator seems like it would make things so much simpler. I guess the engineers decided it wasn't an option, but I do wonder if that decision was made before anyone put lithium ion batteries into a car, so they discounted it for reasons (battery size/weight) that today aren't a problem.
Plug-in hybrids will never make sense to me as long as they're doing tiny battery packs that only get at most 40 miles of range. If I have to keep going to the gas station and burning gas to get anywhere, what have I accomplished? If I need long range frequently, a regular hybrid or full ICE makes more sense. If I need more than 40 miles but less than 2-3 hundred miles of range for most of my driving, a full BEV makes more sense. The use case for a car that gets maybe 40 miles of electric range is so incredibly niche.
@@mjc0961 I really don't get Plug-In Hybrids, like why plug it in? The range is like 30-70km which is very very useless. Plug-in Hybrids should have a big battery, 400-600km range with a generator when you need it
@@mjc0961 I'd love a plug in hybrid. I live on the edge of a city so 90% of my trips are under 10 km and 95% are under 50 km, so it would give me basically a BEV without the cost of a large battery or the range anxiety of a small battery. Many of my neighbours are the same. If the battery in my 15 year old Prius wasn't completely worn out I'd stick a 200 VDC power supply in it and convert it to a PHEV myself, then I'd only have to go buy fuel once every year or two.
But isn't that more inefficient? You have to convert gas > rotational > electric > (battery) > rotational. Instead of just directly using the first rotational energy to drive. I always thought that trains only do it because a gearbox would be too complicated/expensive and trains benefit from the extra torque of electric motors.
Honestly, GM really dropped the ball in not adapting the Voltec drivetrain for the Silverado like this, but with more appropriate specs. Range-extender technology is perfect for trucks and it shouldn't have taken until 2025 for a major manufacturer to do it with the Ram 1500 Ramcharger.
I'm kinda likeing the concept as opposed to full ev , offgrid buildsite power, you don't have to plug it in to charge and wait , no range anxiety, and im sure there would be upgrades if it was built today..... the one in Canada sounds interesting !!! And as you questioned , how many charge cycle's on her battery pack...... Great video Dude!!! 😉😎NZ
Like ever other video that films outside right now, we don't hear the cicadas. The only reason we know they're making noise is that everyone points out that they're making noise. Viewers don't actually hear them.
@@bartismoellis1052 I'm out west, also quite north and never even heard OF cicadas until about 5 years ago. I cannot hear them in the video, not even when he stopped to draw attention to them. Almost everything that someone in a video apologizes for making noise (traffic, chickens, children, trains, etc) I never hear in the videos. I think microphones are built to filter out background sound and only pick up the primary source.
There is Edison motors in Canada, their main focus is Diesel Electric(or as said here range extended) heavy duty trucks but they are working with Deboss on a kit to do exactly what's done here but with solid axles with the motors being mounted on the differential. CAT diesel generator under the hood, big battery pack, as much off the shelf parts as possible for easy repair. I really like what thier doing
RUclips not showing me this video for THIRTEEN days is a crime, super sorry that RUclips screws you. I love your videos and its a shame RUclips doesnt show me them.
I own a 2015 with 88k I’ve had it since 2016 bought it used with 4k miles I haven’t had any issue with it. I think this one in the video is a lemon or perhaps mine is a unicorn. But mine can go up hill with out issue. It’s a neat truck but it does leave some to be desired but I drive from Washington to California and I use it for overland camping it works perfect for my needs. I can boondock with out issue Id buy one again.
I wonder if they were aware of VIA, the taiwanese semiconductor manufacturer with a really similar logo. I was shocked thinking that they made this, until you mentioned Lutz
I was thinking about the ramcharger while watching this... glad you brought it up. Hopefully it turns out to just be a very good OEM level execution of what this was trying to do. You never know with Stellantis at the helm though.
I could imagine this truck being used in a horror movie as some comedy relief. Imagine waiting 30 seconds for your car to start while a man with a chainsaw is racing towards you.
This is super fascinating! Thank you for the video. This range extender setup reminds me a lot of a series hybrid, like the Nissan e-Power system, except it's also a plug-in EV.
If you get one than the elementer internals configured ten for the staff when it’s on 2 low done? Mine was 3 times for how it went over on it fridays charge. Get the glue for the batteries it will tack 5 for it foots.
@AgingWheels Hi, Robert!! I unfortunately don't know if you're reviewing cars that aren't EV's, but if you're interested, I have a '95 Toyota Century Hearse. Imported it from Japan last November, and it is stupid full of quirks! It used to be full of features too, but that was before the coachbuilder cut everything out and turned it into an Ex-People Carrier. Anyway, I'm only in Alton if you want to have a gander, and I'd gladly bring it to you or meet you in the middle somewhere, or obviously you're welcome to come to the land of Elijah Lovejoy, Robert Wadlow, the birthplace of Miles Davis and some other guy named "Rapid Edward" Sholar. Wow, this meandered... Thanks for reading! Nate PS: you are absolutely right about driving an electric truck. My friend @MetalOperaGuy has an R1T and omfg that thing is silly fast.
5:30 there's some kind of spatial anomaly going on with the console in lower right corner for about 40 seconds. Might want to check out if that phantom power draw is folding space!
Is the bed cap factory? If not, that may be a significant contributor to the reduced range - pickups have some pretty wild aerodynamics behind the cab, but it's still better than the big suck from the van shape.
Use code AGINGWHEELS50 to get 50% OFF your first Factor box plus 20% off your next month of orders at bit.ly/3GIHzuy
When you say you don't want it after working on it - I was thinking it must be a nice car while thinking about your car fleet. 😂 Glad you clarified in the end it was not because it was too good and lacking quirky factor 👍
just here to say the truth. battery cars are NOT the future and never will be
You should get yourself on the reservation list for an Edison Motors diesel series hybrid conversion kit when they start shipping them.
@@criticalevent why would anyone convert a perfectly working gas car to a range anxiety, house fire waiting to happen, battery car with less range than if it was a gas car.
It's still a piece of Chevy....
The Plural of VTrux is VTruxii. It's from the Latin 'Vitrux', which means 'Disappointing Electric Truck from Ten Years Ago'.
IIRC the -ux ending is third declension, making the plural _vitrucēs._
Finally I got some use out of my Latin classes in the 1990s!
What a versatile and efficient language Latin is!
But not me, I will buy the VTrux because the only disappointing thing here are comments like yours.
I propose VTruxen because the thing sort of feels awkward like oxen 😂
V-Tuvix just don't look at the back.
The most disappointing thing about this truck is the mid 2010s is a decade ago 💀
Barely anything has changed since then besides everybody becoming apathetic.
It hurts my soul. If you ask me to picture a 10 year old Chevy my mind goes to like, GMT400s when in reality it’s this.
@@ToyotaTechnical Ah yes 2015, before the thing and and the other thing.
For reference, 10 years ago was approximately 10 years ago today.
@@ToyotaTechnicalYes if you ignore the orange fascist and global pandemic, nothing at all changed...
"This meandered" ... that's because you're the writer and narrator. We'd expect nothing less. 🤣
In Obi-Wan's voice: That's... Why I'm here
Also, *felt*
There's a company in Canada called Edison motors that does conversion from regular pickup trucks to an optimal version of this. They replace everything including the drive train and the motor is replaced with an industrial generator that is actually set to run at its optimal fuel consumption and power output settings.
My mind immediately went to the Edison pickup when I started watching the video
same value proposition though.
@@Nderakwell, no. They are using diesel gensets not converting the stock gas engine. And vtrux 4.3 is known to be a fuel hog. They also are using e-axles with more power and larger modern battery packs. I think this truck is more a lesson in how good integration doesn’t fix poorly chosen components and poor design choices. Edison’s conversion program is steering clear of stock engines and slapping motors in front of transfer cases…specifically for the reasons Robert speaks of. They have two hybrid logging trucks, one done in this fashion because the didn’t have access to e-axles when thy were doing development work, and even it outperformed an equivalent ICE only vehicle. The other problem is use case… a ICE over electric hybrid isn’t going to make sense in every application.
Hopefully they learn from VTrux
@@NderakTheir planned specs are 60kwh battery and 350hp per axle. The intent is also to rebuild trucks after the end of the useful life of their original drive train rather than converting a new truck.
Fellow Vtrux owner here. Mine is black and an LT.
I think there are fewer VTrux sold than you implied. I look forward to your teardown video as it may help me in the future to keep this truck on the road.
Battery may be underperforming. Mine has a little over 40k miles, and I still get 40 miles on a mix of city/highway with the climate off. Climate control degrades range much more than you would expect and higher speeds kill range as you would expect driving a brick. I used it as a daily driver to work for years with a 40 mile drive and could make it home 95% of the time without the engine kicking on.
Few notes:
-The single motor on the transfer case gives you 4wd with minimal changes to the truck. Definitely the right call for Via Motors. The lash in the drivetrain makes me baby the accelerator from a stop.
-It is slow and heavy (almost 7k lbs). I think the battery is too small to allow a larger draw. (c-rate) I find it sufficient for a truck though. Think you have to remember what batteries cost over 10 years ago and space requirements. They already shrank the gas tank to make this fit. (15 gallons)
-The coupling is the noisy part on the drivetrain. When "idling" you can really get some rattle out of it.
-You can start driving when the lights are still on the dash. Boot up is quick enough to turn on and just start driving.
-The cooling system is insufficient. The truck will get too warm in a hot climate, especially if towing.
-I just took a ~300 mile trip last week and got 20 mpg at 70-75 mph which has been pretty standard for me. This was as indicated electronically though, as I have not confirmed with gasoline fill before. My lifetime mileage is about 65mpg.
-The truck has a "feature" to run on the gas engine for ~20 miles every 5 days. Calendar days, regardless if the truck has been run. Some excuse about the evap system requirement.
-The generator revving up/down instead of a more constant speed for efficiency is a CARB requirement if you believe Via Motors.
-I also look forward to the Ramcharger, but I would guess it will be about 5x the cost I paid for my VTrux with
@eric4903 Great truck and comment! 👏👏👏👏
YT dumps posts at the slightest hint of a link to the point I don't use time stamps, just numbers
Interesting perspective. The Ramcharger seems overbuilt in my eyes, I imagine that they could market it to the commercial sphere too. With 8 lug hubs and such a large battery, could be a boom truck, driller, vac, etc. For a regular person, your estimate seems better suited, but perhaps they just used what they had or maybe marketing
Thanks for your comment and information!
I've had RUclips eat my longer and more educational posts quite frequently, with literally no signs of links. They particularly dislike these longer comments.
@@FerralVideo YT even dumped your thanks comment if I looked in my notifications. I had to go through my activity to link to it.
Truck = 4/10, resounding "meh."
Video = 10/10, would meander again.
I saw what looked like a Chevrolet Express “blocking” a L2 charging station at a nearby university. Was all mad until I realized it was in fact plugged in and charging. Seems like this is a great concept that was about ten years too early. The automotive equivalent of the Palm V
I've always thought that an electric gas hybrid like this was ideal, like a modern train engine. I think the efficiency is just bad since you're converting at low efficiency from gas to rotational force, then converting that at a loss to electricity which again loses some to heat to get the voltage right for charging.
@@Tb0n3me too and have researched it some. The electrical conversion efficiency is usually over 75%, it'd suit a fixed RPM diesel engine the best (like a train) that could be tuned to be nearly 40% fuel efficient, not having the usual transient conditions a normal vehicle has to deal with.
@@mandrakejakeToyota highlander hybrid drive train is a better option than ranger extender generators. It has an independent rear electric motor and a gas engine that powers the front wheels directly with lower loss than a generator.
@@TechSurrealpotentially a better system, but you need a whole extra drive train to accommodate this, and lose a lot of the benefits of a true electric drive train mainly regen.
@@mandrakejake I was not comparing Toyota's hybrid system to a fully electric powertrain. I meant powering the wheels directly with an internal combustion engine is more efficient than hooking a generator to the same engine. Plus hybrid systems can have decent regen as well since it's just a matter of the electric motor, inverter and battery size and capacity.
When I saw the title saying "ten years ago," my brain went "oh yeah, like 2007-2010ish," then you said "2015 Silverado" and I just about died.
Same bro😭 glad I’m not the only one 😂
Basically the same idea as the diesel-electric locomotives that have been powering our railroads for 70 years. There's a Canadian company doing the same thing for commercial long-haul trucks. Seems like a great concept if only someone can just get it right.
I found a battery powered electric locomotive in a catalogue once. It was capable of charging from electrified sections of line and would run off battery elsewhere, which seems like a really cool idea.
@@bewilderbeestie Electric and compressed air locomotives were (and in a few cases, are still) used in dangerous areas where steam, diesel and direct electric feeding (sparks) are too dangerous.
I think I read that a steel mill in Germany still run 80 years old compressed air locomotives to haul stuff because it just works.
This solution is also studied (and I think some are running) for tramways and trolleybus in Europe in order to remove overhead lines from historical districts. For busses, it has the advantage of making roadwork and maintenance easier since the bus can leave the usual path. But it come with complexity and higher maintenance than regular trolleybus.
Wabtec is in the testing process of a battery locomotive used with conventional locomotives to build a hybrid train set. It charges through regen breaking and delivers power to help climb grades. Specific routes have to be mapped and programmed else it could run out of power and stall on a grade.
The Canadian company is Edison Motors.
@@LeSarthois Removing overhead wires for subjective aesthetic reasons is not the norm, it is very rare. Most historic city centers with overhead wires for streetcars and/or trolleybuses have the infrastructure for the best part of a century, sometimes even longer. Some components of overhead wires are protected historical structures, e.g. in Prague, which reintroduced trolleybuses just a couple years ago, after abandoning them in the 1970s.
I worked for VIA from 2014-2016. I can provide a lot of insight into some of the items you mention. We built about 300-400 trucks total if I can remember correctly. I was on the floor building primarily the trucks but vans as well.
Another thing they did wrong in hindsight, sounds like they didn't do any rework of the 4.3 to optimize it along with the generator module for efficiency. Part of the disadvantage of most combustion engines is that have to have a wide power band so that they work well off the line, accelerating mildly while at speed, and while cruising at high speed. The transmission can only accomplish so much so they have to work well at 1000RPM, at 4000RPM, and everything in between.
If they chose an electric motor that ran at say, 3000 RPM, and then reworked the gas engine to run most efficiently at 3000RPM, they would have probably had something useful in retaining it. But they presumably didn't do this, so the 4.3 is throttled up and down in a way that is both inefficient and sounds bizarre compared to the driver's input.
Jep, and the engine is probably oversized now to. With the electic drive you shouldn´t need high peek power for acceleration / inclines anymore, just enough to keep the battery toped off.
A modern hybrid powertrain most certainly opts to limit the engines' peak output for maximal efficiency. If the engine's supposed to drive the wheels, it has high efficiency in most rev speeds, while if it's supposed to generate only, it has an insane peak efficiency in maybe 1 tiny rev speed range and just sticks there.
@@marvin1432 not sure I'd go quite that far, a common application of diesel-electric involves directly powering the drive motor from power generated at the genhead. Diesel electric locomotives work this way. Up until recently they were DC powered too, rather than using an AC system with batteries to achieve more efficiency. All that said though, the advantages typically revolve around being able to output more total power and required than just for charging the battery so that if the vehicle needs the extra power for inclines or other stressful situations it has it. For that to work though the final drive motor needs to be more powerful than the gasoline motor and genhead. They didn't do that in this case the final drive motor was weaker than the original powertrain and thus it was incapable of providing battery plus combustion power at the same time. This is kind of like hybrid 101 and they failed that. The concept they had in mind wasn't horrible but their implementation basically was. They didn't balance storage, generation power, and drive power in a way that actually makes sense for a truck.
In some ways I'm reminded of that Oldsmobile arrived 350 cubic inch diesel that GM played with back in the late '70s. It was unsuited to just about everything, it did not have the power of a typical diesel, wasn't rated for towing, could only provide fuel efficiency, and despite the wider bore spacing of the Oldsmobile engine over the typical Chevy 350, lacked extra head bolts to ensure that the compression stayed in the cylinders. They even put the thing in to pickup trucks making trucks that couldn't tow because the engine was not rated to tow. In the case of that 350 fuel economy was the only requirement and while it achieved that, it was such a bad motor that they're virtually all off the road now.
If they had used a final drive motor in this hybrid truck that had the power output capability of the V8 vortec engine while using this 4.3 as the power gen head and had the battery capacity to drive performance with both combustion power generation and batteries then it may have been possible to run the engine efficiently along with giving power to make the whole package work better. But for some reason they didn't do that.
I suppose it is a step in the right direction as far as actually proving they can make a vehicle move down the road and achieve something, but it's certainly not an achievement to be proud of.
@TWX1138 The engine does not charge the battery. That is why the rpm goes up and down. I've been thinking about doing this as a mental exercise (I'll never do it). Charge the battery at cruise above 30 mph. If you're idling through town when it's needed, then charge at idle to 1500 rpm. Then stop the engine at lights.
@@alannitcher5001 From the video, it sounds like the engine DOES charge the battery, but only enough to keep the state-of-charge at a constant level, never allowing the state-of-charge to increase by more than a tiny amount.
Via = V/A = Voltage / Amperage = Resistance.
This is the Resistance VTrux
V= Volts, this is a _resistance volts trux_
@@jwalster9412 V looks on the truck like root symbol so it is resistance square root of trux
It is in fact the Resistance Volt Truks.
VA for Volt amps, it includes imaginary power.
Videos like this is why I freaking love this channel.
I had never heard of this conversion until now.
That is, by far, the smoothest sponsor segment transition on RUclips.
Is that microwave turned on (I didn't see a display) or is he eating cold food ?
@@MrDuncl it was running off the truck's inverter.
Still the smoothest sponsor segment transition on RUclips.
@@MrDuncl I can see vague hints of the right-most digit on the microwave display in some angles. I'm going to assume polarizing filter on the camera and unfortunate rotation angle but it could also just be a broken display. I've seen enough of Robert's videos and personality to know that the microwave was definitely used and the factor meal was definitely digested.
You could probably save those 17% of fuel just by driving a regular Silverado as slowly as the Vtrux can go.
Great video, as always!
yeah honestly that's what I was thinking. Electric just loses efficiency when you require cooling and heating and will never be viable for heavy vehicles. If you could just have a bank of capacitors charged off of a constant load engine generator powering a direct drive axle electric motor then it may be more efficient. same concept trains use. The initial cost will be exorbitant and more expensive than just a ice vehicle.
i'll do ya one even better, silverado 1HY lmao
@@funnycatvideos5490look into Edison motors
GM already has a 2mode hybird for the silverado that has a EV motor in the transmission they made them from '08 to '13 these hybirds can get 25mpg if you drive them right. with it's 6.0L engine.
@@punker4Real I almost never see them on the road... It's a surprisingly capable truck
Just looked up the fuel economy for the truck in it's original state..
20MPG.
They made it burn more fuel by converting it to an EV. Astounding.
Reminds me of the Mazda MX-30 range extender. If you start with a full tank and full battery and drive until both are empty, you'll have gotten worse fuel economy than the near-identical Mazda CX-30 non-hybrid petrol powertrain.
Mazda deliberately made their own EV terrible because they didn't want to build one.
To be fair that was rated in extender mode with a depleted battery, but still…
Edison motors up in Canada is working on the same concept as this. But instead of adding a motor they are adding an e-axle which looks really cool. They have also already made a semi truck that is a series hybrid. Hopefully they can figure this stuff out in a normal size truck because the concept is great.
I am following both Edison Motors and Aging Wheels and kept thinking for a while they share some ideas (school bus).
A collaboration between them would be really cool.
I second this, I really hope Aging Wheels, gets his preorder in for an Edison Conversion
I have a friend who has an extensive car collection (mostly go fast cars) and is an original owner of a 1998 S-10 electric truck which Cheney made 500, sold 50 to specific buyers, and then destroyed the remaining 450. He has pulled it out and is replacing the batteries with modern technology and having batteries made to look exactly like the original batteries. Truck still looks brand new
Woah! Yeah those electric S10's were super rare.
It'll be great with modern batteries, and weigh significantly less too, those had lead acid batteries if I remember correctly.
@@volvo09 yes he told me about them and what’s crazy is the battery box is huge and sits in the bed of the truck. He is keeping it looking all original
Robert’s friend Jared Pink on questionable garage has one of these.
@@steveferguson1232 That's extremely respectable from your friend to try to keep everything as close to "stock" as possible
Wouldn't it be better for the engine to be running at a fixed RPM with the highest possible efficiency?
One would think. I believe the Volt also operates this way
@@agingwheelsI think the BMW i3 Range Extender also does this.
That is mostly what hybrids try to do but shitty clueless car journalists have been saying it's a bad engine noise for years to the point that car makers started making their engines vary RPM more to get around that 'stigma'...some even added fake gear changes which just serves to eat efficiency and tax parts needlessly
@@agingwheelsEdison Motors is doing this as well
This is the Fisker Karma arrangement. Also, Ram is coming out with a similar setup.
So basically this is a poor man's Nissan Leaf pickup...
There was a guy in my country who converted old cars into electric cars, which had rather poor range, as he used lead-acid batte4ries. His "range extender" was a small two-wheeled trailer with small diesel generator...
*Volt pickup. The Leaf never had a gasoline engine.
@@TylerLinner but the Volt did hybrid operation much more sensibly. This is arguably worse than both!
On the hybrid or not topic, this Is "Technically" a series hybrid. as opposed to the parallel hybrids you're probably referring to in the video.
most diesel locomotives are also series hybrids as well, with a small(ish) battery to buffer the generator power.
Today I learned. I just don't like range extended EV being lumped in together with other "normal" hybrids. But you're right, so I removed the rant section
almost all DC traction locomotives just have the motors (effectively) directly connected to the generator. AC traction locomotives usually just have a couple farad of capacitance.
Fun fact: Orion (out of Canada) made series hyrbid buses in the early 00s using the Cummins ISB. We had a bunch of them in San Francisco. Just like the Vtrux the diesel engine did its own thing and you'd only really hear it rev up on a hill (or while sitting at a stop light). Unlike the Vtrux they had well marked external kill switches. You can guess how well that went over with the youths.
@@francistheodorecatte and 1 farad is quite a big capacitor! I'm sure in these uses it doesn't provide much buffer, but for any other situation if someone specced a 1F cap, let alone 5F or 10F, you'd be like "damn what's going on!"
If you ever do decide to convert a truck yourself take a look at Edison Motors up here in Canada if you haven't already. They are mainly focused on building heavy-duty equipment right now but are also working on a conversion kit for regular pickups as well using a small diesel 4 cylinder as a generator. Also keep an eye on Deboss Garage here on RUclips who are working with them to show how to do the conversions.
As I understand it, Edison is "running" the light truck conversion program and promoting it, will be the parent company wholesaling and importing the parts, but DeBoss Garage was tasked with doing the prototype build, documentation, design, etc. DG will build the first one, sharing their knowledge with Edison to help them build their truck, then they'll start training the installers around the US and Canada to sell them to buyers and do final installs.
But that's more complicated of an explanation than you said, which wasn't really "wrong" at all 😉
Scam... Just wait for that to drop.
Theres one sitting grown up in weeds that I pass fairly often on my way to and from work I was very curious what it actually was and this video has answered that question and now I completely understand why its grown up in weeds
I have a regular at my parts house that had one. He loved it. Ran his land management and real estate company out of it and he had nothing but great things to say about it.
Very surprised they didn't run the engine in the most efficient load/rpm zone all the time, could partially explain poor fuel efficiency.
They'd need to retune the engine for a narrower powerband, as they have a wide one from the factory for a better driving experience.
@@mlindholm that probably could increase efficiency even more but there still will be most efficient operating point even with stock tune.
Another VIA owner a few comments up mentioned that, according to the manufacturer, the revving is an emissions requirement (presumably, because the catalytic converter wouldn't get to the working temperature otherwise). In reality, it's just a sign of a conversion that went halfway, then tried to patch the rest in software.
“All the maintenance and complication of an internal combustion engine with none of the benefits of an EV!” … probably not the best marketing slogan.
EVs have no benefits.
@@jailbird1133 Imagine actually believing that lol.
@@jailbird1133 Stop and go and downhill regenerating. If even ICE had TEG's on their disc brakes, it wouldn't provide much relief for the alternator dragging the engine.
@@Infinion a TEG on the brake is a weird way to do it, as TEGs are notoriously inefficient anyway. What mild-hybrids do is apply the braking force at the driveshaft, just like engine braking, but with the alternator/generator instead of the engine.
That electrical power is used for starting the car, but also for pre-spooling the turbocharger and providing some from-stopped torque. All, in theory, to reduce the wear and strain on the engine whilst otherwise being a "normal" (and theoretically slightly nippier) ICE experience.
I was waiting for the jump-scare-pop-on-screen intro and you totally subverted expectations you legend. Kudos!
I drive a 2015 BMW i3 with a range extender - basically a two cylinder motorcycle engine acting as a generator. When cars are purpose built around the concept, it works quite well. Even used, I can get over 50 miles of EV only driving, and it's really zippy and fun to drive for only 170HP - not to mention almost completely silent if the air conditioner isn't running. The 2.5 gallon gas tank adds 100 miles of range, and the frunk is big enough to hold a 2 gallon jerrycan, giving me close to 250 miles of range with only a 22kWh battery.
This is exactly what I tried to say about the Edison Motors pickup conversion.
Still waiting for your version II video on that.
The conversion kits are not designed for OTR. The conversion kits are designed for service trucks. And they have many advantages over this particular truck (ie would address most of his complaints about this truck).
Then you're an idiot. The two aren't remotely comparable except to show how far tech has advanced since this thing. Also this thing still works and pretty well for someone doing basic stuff with a short commute.
@@digitald5851 If he is smart... and he is. He will keep his distance. This is another scam.
They missed a great opportunity to change M to H. Put it in H!
The reason probably is that it’s a stock GM display. Looks just like the one my Opel had. Including M for manual mode.
My current company had a fleet if f150s with aftermarket hybrid systems installed. Recently we had them all removed due to lack of benefit, loss of capability, and no improved mileage. I firmly believe in hybrids and such systems, but no one designs them to best fit the vehicle other than the manufacturer.
Gas engines are absolutely terrible at low speeds, especially starting from still, for trucks that are going to do that a ton moving around worksites, or idling, a hybrid system sounds like it would be superb, but I guess not if they aren't engineered correctly.
I'd love to see how a Chevy Volt style hybrid truck would be.
@@joebot86 yeah doing the highway driving off the engine block while the low-speed site shunting is done on electric would seem sensible.
This concept works with the right applications, in SEA they have diesel electric cars: small battery about 40 miles range so in the city your all electric and at faster speeds or longer distances the 4 cylinder diesel kicks on to run the electric drive train directly through the battery giving about 40-50 MPG depending on the size, weight and speed of the car. Much like a hybrid economy car but the difference is all electric propulsion and the engine runs at one charging speed and does not rev up and down with load.
But is that better than a normal hybrid? (mainly asking about efficiency).
@@Jehty_ I believe so, if done right (the engine only need to be optimized at one speed, so could be built cheaper/lighter and more efficient)
5:35 I assume that's a 360 cam stitching artifact. Trippy.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit psychedelics.
Ok good, I assume other people seeing it means I'm not losing it
I wasn't sure what I witnessed with that strange transformation back there but thanks for explaining.
No, it's just his rearview mirror blowing in the wind 😆
@@kcdsTM Dig around for the edited out footage of him in the nursing home and getting the call.
I have to admit I was excited to see this review. I worked on these trucks and vans in the development and early manufacturing stages. initially as an assembly Tech, then took on a Battery re-work position and eventually worked as the manufacturing Engineer. I was always frustrated that they did not work out the bugs and actually put it into production. In fact, based on your review it sounds like the de-rated things even more - We had done side-by-side towing races with these pulling trailers and they would gap the stock trucks fast. I cannot remember if I worked on this truck but I am guessing it was one of the final ones that I would have had contact with. As far as I am aware, the suburban was never actually made. I left VIA back in Jan 2015.. Fun and sad to see this in the wild with a real-world review.
Watching this on my tv at home while the cicadas make their noise outside my house, I didn’t even notice the cicadas in his background because they blended exactly with the ones in my own background 😂
These keep showing up occasionally in my ebay searches for boring regular Silverados. I can say i would be tempted by one for the right price
I love the theory and effort behind this. But man, the power and battery are disappointing. That's a real shame. Oh well! You should still get one and upgrade the battery and drive motor.
If I'm going to go to the trouble of upgrading the battery AND drive motor, I might as well convert something myself!
@@agingwheels: like an Explorer?
@@agingwheels or a bus
@@jordandumer School buses are mandated in NY by early 2030. They are 4x expensive than a diesel school bus. The school I went to has one that was given to the school for tests. I noticed our local school bus budget was turned down by the voters. They weren't willing to see a bus cost 400K vs 150K for a diesel bus.
Like a Ford Escape maybe? What happened to that thing?@@agingwheels
I drove a 2015 Silverado with a 4.3 v6 4x4 on caliche roads running all day in oilfield/windfarm conditions for 150,000 miles before we got new trucks. I averaged 12mpg for the life of that thing. So a fleet utility getting 20ish is absolutely insane.
Love your rambling. Thank you for your honest view on everything!
I think another thing to consider with a vehicle like this is idle time. A lot of service trucks spend hours idling with crews waiting or taking breaks/lunch in AC. It's why the Ford hybrid police explorer saves so much fuel, though the hybrid explore doesn't have much better economy than the regular explorer. A big reason I like my hybrid minivan is because I spend a lot of time in school lines.
Holy I remember the hype about these. I totally forgot about them.
Man I love your vids! Full disclosure: a lot of the stuff you cover I don't even care about. I watch because I like hearing your humorous take on everything. I can relate to many of your frustrations on ridiculous engineering designs. Keep it up!
0:40 I spent way too much time wondering and waiting for you to explain what that "radar"-dish on top of the roof of the car is.
Somehow I did not notice that it was only present in some shots 🤦♀️ 😂
Excellent live read for Factor, showing the features of the vehicle you are reviewing at the same time you are featuring your sponsor... Bravo!
Can't wait to see a side by side comparison between this and a truck that gets the @EdisonMotors conversion.
Perfect timing with this upload. I was rewatching some older videos of yours just yesterday wondering when the next video would be.
At least it turned up. Mitsubishi was promising a hybrid/range extender version of their L200 at least a decade ago and it still hadn't arrived when they pulled out of Europe in 2022.
Probably too busy making Outlanders which was the best selling PHEV in Europe for years.
@@MrDuncl Maybe but the L200 was the most popular pickup too.
Mind you I still cannot fathom why Mitsubishi pulled out of Europe when they had, as you say, a massively popular PHEV AND the L200 AND a very loyal customer base.
@@stamfordly6463 might be something to do with nissan owning 34%. finland still has mitsubishi though and so does sweden so it's not like they're pulled out of all of europe
@@lasskinn474 I thought that myself initially but then Nissan themselves withdrew the Navarra and (I think) X-Trail which were their competitors for the L200 and Outlander.
It's not even that they were making space for the third Alliance member because Renault doesn't have any cars in those two niches.
The drive system and the charger where made by TM4 (sub company of Hydro-Quebec). I was working at TM4 at the time VIA came with this project. We made less than 1000 kits if I remember correctly (probably under 500).
Is it me or is this damn good for a 10 year old truck! For a first gen this isn't bad at all. Mind you 10 years ago nothing like this existed and still doesn't today in a full sized truck
Great video! I have a similar relic, but then European style. I have a Mercedes Sprinter from previous generation, that was converted to electric. They made 300 to 500 of them before going bankrupt.
It also has steel boxes with LFP in them around the driveshaft. But in my case, the (Siemens) motor is bolted to a regular transmission. Which is terrible because you cannot hear if the engine is still spinning when you release the clutch. But it is also great, because you can actually use the gears when the low amount of power (or torque) is not enough.
It is a 9 seater and was also 2700kg on registration papers, and 700kg of that was the battery pack. I'm putting in 80kWh from a BMW SUV, twice the capacity and end up being lighter than original.
It isn't fast either, but with the gears it should still do fine with some hills. And there is quite some room to boost performance with a different inverter. The Siemens motor is overqualified so for short durations you could draw much more power.
They didn't bother trying to heat the interior for 9 people electrically, they just put in a diesel heater with a small tank. Which was probably better because the range with heating a van with all windows around on 40kWh would be terrible.
And also in this case, the LFP batteries were required to work quite hard. But not as hard in this V/A truck.
I wonder what Robert would think about an ELR it's basically this but smaller and good looking. I have one and I love it, although I do wish it were faster. Mine pulls 132KW in EV mode and 160 in generator mode. It does feel quicker than it is, though, it feels faster than my dad's CX-30 which has 190HP. Mine also gets 38-40 miles of range when driving carefully.
The elr was nothing more then a Chevy Volt in a Cadillac body
@@bartismoellis1052 yes and no. They share a platform and engine, but the ELR has a completely different interior which is much nicer and way better looking than the Volt's, has extra power, adjustable suspension, and extra features like radar cruise control.
I was at Leno's garage the day that Bob Lutz brought the Via in to shoot the episode ob the Via. It was a great idea but in my opinion it was about 10 years too early. If these had been available a few years ago I could have bought a couple of hundred of these for my job at the Port of Los Angeles which would have been all off road driving at about 15 MPH and helped us meet the states rules on emissions.
That vehicle's base surface area is almost the same as my room in university campus...
Damn, they have you packed into closets?
@@KR-hg8be Yes, and even space for private toilet, shower and 'kitchen'. And all that for the low, low price of 380 bucks a month. But no generator noise, at least.
Wild. My dad worked for this company for the majority of my childhood. It was always sort of a funny affair that had really good intentions but couldn't quite get things right in the end(as you discovered). I remember he would pick me up from school in the vans while road testing them and we'd go out to abandoned roads and just punch it.
Weird though that you mentioned that it was slow. My core memory as a kid was that the vans at least were wicked fast in a straight line compared to most vehicles on the road in 2016ish. My guess is that the ones my dad was driving around were in diagnostic mode and the ones they sold to fleets were intentionally less quick to try and get better range at the detriment of some features.
The idea was super good but a bit too much in its infancy when they developed the vtrux for it to work, and by the time they got other stuff off the ground the company was already going under.
Nowadays, a lot like other people I feel like edison motors seems to be finishing what they started and avoiding some of the investment pitfalls that plagued via.
Seeing you review this reminded me a lot of my early days living here in utah. Serious blast to the past.
Man, the size of American trucks were absurd even 10 years ago
You wanna know the crazy thing? The Colorado is Chevy's _smaller_ truck. It's the Silverado that's the big one.
I kept thinking about how that think looks absurdly huge, and We didn't saw much inside but it looks like the cargo area is not that great. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that my puny, weak 60hp (and 112Nm) Citroën C15 has as much cargo room overall.
Edit : I can't really find info abotu the volume of the closed version of the Vtrux, so if you know, for comparison, the volume of cargo in a C15 is 2,66m3 or 93.93 ft3 (if conversion is right)
it wants to be a train soooo badly, it's so freaking long, and series hybrid
@@crackedemerald4930no, trains don't depend on batteries, they run straight into the motors. That's less efficient than a mechanically coupled drive train for highway use. Series hybrids work better with bigger battery packs and bigger generators, so you can cycle the engine+generator less often and have reasonable electric range thereby saving fuel, also being able to use more grid (potentially solar) power instead of carried fuel.
Even then they're still optimized for stop and go or hilly routes versus long flat distance, where regenerative braking actually can offset acceleration and uphill consumption.
@@stevethepocket Yes thats true but the truck in this video is still a Silverado.
I have an express van VTRUX in the shop right now. This thing has 2 OBDII plugs under the dash. I can floor it and watch the battery level drop. After 20 minutes of driving, the battery is in the yellow on the gauge and the engine takes over. It also has the check engine light on at all times with a P0621- gen. L circuit code. The alternator doesn't even have the cable running from the alternator to the battery. I am assuming that it was rerouted through the main generator, but now it has this code.
We've come a long way!
Bob , I feel like all these company's and people that build different E.V. type vehicles all help to get us to where we are today I feel the biggest advancement is the battery technology . of today who knows where we will be in 10 to 15 years
I was so sad when you said "Will be out a few weeks from now" T_T
I love how there is an Edison Motors short paired with this video with Deboss Rich talking about the exact same drive train issues - and the solution. A VTrux with an eAxle instead of the current drive train might be nice.
After working in fleet and vehicle sales for years I have learned EVs are currently only for people who do not care at all about practicality and cost of ownership. Unless there is a major and I mean major increase in battery technology to lower the cost substantially (we are talking a 60 to 70 percent decrease in pricing), increase the energy held substantially (we are talking triple to quadruple the energy stored in the pack), and an effective 90 percent drop in recharge times EVs will never be a viable vehicle for most people. Hybrids are blowing them out of the water due to the lower cost of maintenance and lack of dependence on a charger that takes hours to recharge. All of this applies to cars unfortunately when it comes to trucks it’s a complete non start. Every fleet procurement department I have ever spoke to only wants dirt cheap maintenance, long term reliability, and something that can be abused by employees that will do everything imaginable to a vehicle they do not own. 8 years ago I oversaw a short lease of Tesla Model S and Chevy Volts the lease came due after 36 months and they lived the Volts but hated the Teslas. It boiled down to needing to charge to often and reliability issues with the Teslas. The Volts took all the abuse and miles and kept on going without issue but the Tesla cars had lots of issues not due to build quality (yes there was a ton of build quality issues but fleets don’t care if a dash squeaks) but to its EV design. They died in heavy rain, car washes, and constantly would run low or out of battery before the day was over so eventually they just pushed the Tesla cars out of use because they are not practical cars. The company doubled the volt count and extended the lease for all volts and returned the Tesla vehicles which almost all were dead. They aren’t the only ones that had these complaints it was very common and the company I worked for stopped offering long term leasing for them due to the cost of supporting these vehicles. Electric cars are only for people who are willing to deal with their expensive maintenance and lack of freedom and electric trucks are only for people who do not use them as trucks and see them as electric cars with all the same problems.
TLDR; Electric trucks are not work vehicles and will struggle to ever be usable as trucks while electric cars are only for people willing to deal with high maintenance costs and lack of freedom.
Your's are one of the few embedded ads that I watch because of your creativity. If I'm ever single again, I'll consider factor.
If only chevy had a plug in hybrid car in that time period...
That battery size is fine assuming it's acting like a good plug in hybrid, but this one isn't, it's not taking advantage of fixed engine RPM for peak effectiveness.
Edit: I'm absolutely sure I replied to a different comment. Instead of deleting this one, I'm just going to double down on Chevy Volt appreciation.
@@joebot86 I love my volt
Looks like the one I sold, especially with that truck topper. Was excited to own it in the beginning but glad to have moved on from it at the end.
Looking forward to the battery teardown video!
Can’t wait for Robert to have a go in the RamCharger Rex, then he can tell us about the disappointing electric truck of the future.
I so compulsively click watch on Aging Wheels videos that I just realized this is from like... a day ago! NEW CONTENT!!! WHOOOO
Turkey Chile and Zucchini. Wait, where is Zucchini located? Is it recognized by the United Nations?
Yay finally! I've been rewatching old episodes hoping a new one would crop up soon! Thanks for the hard work as always!
They just straight up stole VIA rail's logo. Fascinating
I was thinking of VIA computer chips.
Guess what the name of the parent company was….
I saw this video and remembered seeing that a Lordstown Endurance was up for auction. I went to confirm before mentioning it here and discovered that 1) the auction was closed because there appeared to be no way to title the truck and 2) you already knew about it and had been asking questions about the vehicle on the auction site.
Well i now know where Kia got there new logo XD
I always think the new Kia logo looks a lot like the Nine Inch Nails band logo.
K backwards N?
11:20 would it be possible to change the batteries for better modern batteries? To give it a better range!
I love the idea of Electric cars with a Generator, it's how PHEVs should be... but they put such a small battery in it! The idea of an engine driving a generator to drive motors to drive the wheels is so much better, it's literally how Diesel Train locomotives operate, hence how they're called Diesel-Electrics, but clearly this truck just isn't it
I agree, with all the complicated mechanisms that go into making a hybrid work, just making an EV with an onboard generator seems like it would make things so much simpler. I guess the engineers decided it wasn't an option, but I do wonder if that decision was made before anyone put lithium ion batteries into a car, so they discounted it for reasons (battery size/weight) that today aren't a problem.
Plug-in hybrids will never make sense to me as long as they're doing tiny battery packs that only get at most 40 miles of range. If I have to keep going to the gas station and burning gas to get anywhere, what have I accomplished? If I need long range frequently, a regular hybrid or full ICE makes more sense. If I need more than 40 miles but less than 2-3 hundred miles of range for most of my driving, a full BEV makes more sense. The use case for a car that gets maybe 40 miles of electric range is so incredibly niche.
@@mjc0961 I really don't get Plug-In Hybrids, like why plug it in? The range is like 30-70km which is very very useless. Plug-in Hybrids should have a big battery, 400-600km range with a generator when you need it
@@mjc0961 I'd love a plug in hybrid. I live on the edge of a city so 90% of my trips are under 10 km and 95% are under 50 km, so it would give me basically a BEV without the cost of a large battery or the range anxiety of a small battery. Many of my neighbours are the same. If the battery in my 15 year old Prius wasn't completely worn out I'd stick a 200 VDC power supply in it and convert it to a PHEV myself, then I'd only have to go buy fuel once every year or two.
But isn't that more inefficient?
You have to convert gas > rotational > electric > (battery) > rotational.
Instead of just directly using the first rotational energy to drive.
I always thought that trains only do it because a gearbox would be too complicated/expensive and trains benefit from the extra torque of electric motors.
Honestly, GM really dropped the ball in not adapting the Voltec drivetrain for the Silverado like this, but with more appropriate specs. Range-extender technology is perfect for trucks and it shouldn't have taken until 2025 for a major manufacturer to do it with the Ram 1500 Ramcharger.
Still better than the Cybertruck
Loved how the sponsor was introduced, that was actually pretty creative lol.
I'm kinda likeing the concept as opposed to full ev , offgrid buildsite power, you don't have to plug it in to charge and wait , no range anxiety, and im sure there would be upgrades if it was built today..... the one in Canada sounds interesting !!! And as you questioned , how many charge cycle's on her battery pack...... Great video Dude!!! 😉😎NZ
"Range extending generator" says it all
I'm excited to see the follow-up video! It's the closest thing to a train we have on the road!
this video is very interesting. this truck is well made and yet some things are not ok at the same time
Like ever other video that films outside right now, we don't hear the cicadas. The only reason we know they're making noise is that everyone points out that they're making noise. Viewers don't actually hear them.
In places out west we don't have cicadas so we still hear them.
@@bartismoellis1052 I'm out west, also quite north and never even heard OF cicadas until about 5 years ago. I cannot hear them in the video, not even when he stopped to draw attention to them. Almost everything that someone in a video apologizes for making noise (traffic, chickens, children, trains, etc) I never hear in the videos. I think microphones are built to filter out background sound and only pick up the primary source.
There is Edison motors in Canada, their main focus is Diesel Electric(or as said here range extended) heavy duty trucks but they are working with Deboss on a kit to do exactly what's done here but with solid axles with the motors being mounted on the differential. CAT diesel generator under the hood, big battery pack, as much off the shelf parts as possible for easy repair. I really like what thier doing
RUclips not showing me this video for THIRTEEN days is a crime, super sorry that RUclips screws you. I love your videos and its a shame RUclips doesnt show me them.
I own a 2015 with 88k I’ve had it since 2016 bought it used with 4k miles I haven’t had any issue with it. I think this one in the video is a lemon or perhaps mine is a unicorn. But mine can go up hill with out issue. It’s a neat truck but it does leave some to be desired but I drive from Washington to California and I use it for overland camping it works perfect for my needs. I can boondock with out issue
Id buy one again.
Whats going on with the dash changing shape from 5:00 to 6:15? Is it AI editing software?
I wonder if they were aware of VIA, the taiwanese semiconductor manufacturer with a really similar logo. I was shocked thinking that they made this, until you mentioned Lutz
Like always.
Robert, your videos are the best. They are definitely the most entertaining and attention getting. Thank you very much.
I was thinking about the ramcharger while watching this... glad you brought it up. Hopefully it turns out to just be a very good OEM level execution of what this was trying to do. You never know with Stellantis at the helm though.
I could imagine this truck being used in a horror movie as some comedy relief. Imagine waiting 30 seconds for your car to start while a man with a chainsaw is racing towards you.
At 5:37 wtf is going on with the dash?
that's the 360 camera freaking out a bit, not knowing how to stitch its two 180 degree video halves together
This is super fascinating! Thank you for the video.
This range extender setup reminds me a lot of a series hybrid, like the Nissan e-Power system, except it's also a plug-in EV.
If you get one than the elementer internals configured ten for the staff when it’s on 2 low done? Mine was 3 times for how it went over on it fridays charge. Get the glue for the batteries it will tack 5 for it foots.
I passed a red Solo on the highway yesterday. I was strangely excited to see it.
@AgingWheels Hi, Robert!! I unfortunately don't know if you're reviewing cars that aren't EV's, but if you're interested, I have a '95 Toyota Century Hearse. Imported it from Japan last November, and it is stupid full of quirks! It used to be full of features too, but that was before the coachbuilder cut everything out and turned it into an Ex-People Carrier. Anyway, I'm only in Alton if you want to have a gander, and I'd gladly bring it to you or meet you in the middle somewhere, or obviously you're welcome to come to the land of Elijah Lovejoy, Robert Wadlow, the birthplace of Miles Davis and some other guy named "Rapid Edward" Sholar.
Wow, this meandered... Thanks for reading!
Nate
PS: you are absolutely right about driving an electric truck. My friend @MetalOperaGuy has an R1T and omfg that thing is silly fast.
5:30 there's some kind of spatial anomaly going on with the console in lower right corner for about 40 seconds. Might want to check out if that phantom power draw is folding space!
5:30 what kind of anomalous space-time warping is happening in the lower right corner there
Can't wait till you get your hands on one of the conversions from deboss garage!
Should bring some of these out for people to see plenty of local shows
Is the bed cap factory? If not, that may be a significant contributor to the reduced range - pickups have some pretty wild aerodynamics behind the cab, but it's still better than the big suck from the van shape.