Avoidant Personality Disorder & Schizoid Personality Disorder
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- In this video I discuss the similarities and differences between my lived experience with Avoidant Personality Disorder and what I've read about Schizoid Personality Disorder - two disorders that are often compared. Thanks for watching.
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I used the word “malaise” wrong in this video… disregard that lol
@anxious_and_avoidant you really want the world don't you! :)
😅😂
Malaise is such a cool word. Ha!
Great video, really informative. Judging by the list of AVPD vs Schizoid PD symptoms I probably have more of the former rather than the latter. Is it possible to have both ? Watching in 🇬🇧
I'm a schizoid but I wouldn't say I'm 100% disinterested in anything romantic, it's just that I am essentially a human cactus and a few seconds of intense eye contact with a girl is something I can live off of for weeks and anything that gets too close in the sense of her always being in my life would be way too stressful for me and would essentially drown me real quick and it would feel like a second job instead of something I enjoy. I'm pretty sure it has confused people pretty often that I seem to be interested and then suddenly I'll withdraw even though they did nothing wrong. Sometimes I daydream about having more going on with them but as with most things really, it only takes place in my head and in real life it wouldn't work
I feel the same way. Do you got out a lot or mostly stay at home? Also, are you quick to anger?
And I play World of Warcraft too 😅
The, risk, work, effort far outweighs the reward.
Same
As a schizoid you most likely want intimacy and romantic relations to be confined only to your fantasy. You need to realize that you want it to be but only in your fantasy and you feel fear of intimacy in real life therefore you are alone.
As someone diagnosed with SPD, I've found your channel very interesting. I used to have crippling social anxiety when I was younger, which makes AvPD feel relatable to me (not that I claim to fully understand the experience!). I'm not sure if my SPD diagnosis is correct - at least for me it's not about pure disinterest towards socializing (though I've become more disinterested with age), but it's based on fears of losing my autonomy or being basically emotionally consumed by other people (I think "fear of engulfment" is a term for that), even in friendships. But like I said, I'm questioning my diagnosis, 'cause I think it's possible I have autism or something else (ADHD is something I'm already diagnosed with).
Interesting! I’m guessing maaaaany people (women especially) are wrongly diagnosed with personality disorders because their autism doesn’t look exactly like the train-obsessed boys archetype that many mental health professionals thought autism was until recently. In my case, I definitely without a doubt meet the criteria for AvPD but still wonder if I could be autistic as well. What you’re describing about your autonomy reminds me of Pathological Demand Avoidance too.
Mental health pathology is such a mess. 😅 But I just take resources from wherever I feel they fit. Whether or not I’m autistic, for example, if I read something about it that I relate to and discover an accommodation I can make for myself that helps, I’m doing it regardless. ❤️
@@anxious_and_avoidant Learning about Pathological Demand Avoidance actually made me re-think that I might be autistic, because I relate to that so strongly! (then again, I don't doubt that you can have PDA even without autism) Basically the central theme of my life has been avoiding demands at any cost... and I wonder if avoiding relationships could just be a form of that. Even friendship comes with some expectations and "demands" after all.
Absoluuuuuutely! I think about this often. The main thing that makes me question whether or not I truly fit “pda” is that I’ve read most kids with that profile would be quite oppositional or difficult, and I didn’t really struggle with demand avoidance until I was older and “burnt out” already. But I’ve always been shy and struggled with social situations. It’s so hard to say.
But I do think even if the personality disorder symptoms are the direct cause of something like ASD or ADHD, we can still benefit from learning about the disorders and how they’re treated, since there’s no physical cure for any of it. We’re all just trying to manage symptoms at the end of the day. ❤️
The DSM-5 doesn't do SPD much justice, if you dig deeper and read more about SPD, what I find fascinating, is that many resources claim the motivation for schizoids' isolation is exactly the reason which makes you unsure of the accuracy of your diagnosis - the fear of being consumed by other people, losing autonomy, being "stuck" in a relationship and losing themselves. Schizoids aren't simply disinterested, they had to learn that relationships are unreliable and unsafe at a very young age, hence the unconscious fear of participating.
What you describe sounds like classic schizoid. I strongly recommend the channel "Schizoid Vision" for insight into the schizoid psyche.
Mine feels like progression. As a child I had sensory issues and I stimmed at lot and was just genteelly someone other kids were uncomfortable around. No matter how hard I tried I was never successful with making friends. I would sit in the mirror at night and practice how to be normal so I wouldn’t be so lonely anymore. But it never worked. By the time I was in highschool the confusion I felt about relating to people made me want to isolate myself completely and when I did isolate myself I found that I spent so much time as a little kid trying to be someone else I had no idea who I was. The feels lead to this deep resentment to other people for not just accepting me for who I was. I don’t want anything to do with others now. I see them now as a source of pain and not a cure for loneliness. I feel happy being alone and away from everyone now. I am a person who went from avoidant to schizoid personality.
Have you been evaluated for ASD?
Thanks for the video. I'm SPD and wondered how my thoughts/fears differ from AvPD. Maybe oversimplifying but what i think is true form my understanding: SPD theme is motivation to protect myself from the world. Do not trust anyone, even myself. For AvPD it would be simpler: protect myself from shame. Freud would have loved this. For him, everything was sexual. For me sexuality has absolutely nothing to do with it. I fear intimacy. For with intimacy you must trust. For developing friendships you must trust. And when at sime point early in life you can't handle the emotions of betrayal by parent, sibling, or other central person in your life you turn your emotions off. I remember the moment for me when i stopped crying when i got teased by my older brothers. I was six or seven. And correctly guessed that the teasing would stop if i stopped rewarding them with my emotional outbursts.
Respect 💜 for this work you're putting into all this. I hope you find it to be rewarding and helpful in your journey.
Thank you. ☺️ It really is… putting so much focus on understanding myself and verbally processing what I’m going through, plus making connections with people who understand me… rewarding is the perfect word to describe it. ❤️
I used to think i related more to avpd, but after having some good therapy sessions i think i relate much more to schizoid, especially when you learn more about the disorders and not just surface appearances they present.
As AVPD, I may not mind discussing a topic with another person, I typically just don't want a friendship where we have to continue to engage talking. Like random conversations are okay but connection into friendship like friendship involves going along a train of activities, talking connection activities I am not interested in continuing to engage in. It's almost as if it's connections in terms of friendship involves a structure of continuous activities I am not interested in signing up for. Like if you were to say you can be a friend by showing up to 3 activities a year and speaking in the phone twice I might agree to it. But its the ongoing back and forth including the idea that friends may talk more frequently and meet up more frequently but I'm not interested in. I would rather it be a small contact contract and then I mite sign up for it. It's like if you tell someone they can watch an extraordinary long 4-Hour movie or just watch a 5-minute or a 10 minute commercial or preview. Id rather do a 5 or 10 minute engagement I'm not going to sign up for the longer activity of 4 hours. Thus the possibility of having to continue to be in contact and be asked to meet up I experienced it as like an add-on and unending add-on of stuff that I'm not wanting
I wonder how ("quiet") Borderline Personality Disorder/Traits is related to AvPD 🤔
Another thing that I recently think about is how AvPD will translate into the ICD-11 diagnosis of Personality Disorders...
There's so much to deep dive into :D
You pointed the multidimensionality of Personality Disorders at end (different opposites) and I think that's what the ICD-11 tries to take into account?
And thanks for putting yourself out there! You're a real inspiration. AvPD can feel so dead end hopeless :(
Omg I also super relate to the “quiet borderline” profile too! Maybe I’ll add that in to my narcissism video or do a separate one for that depending on how much I have to say about it lol ☺️ thanks for reminding me!
@@anxious_and_avoidant yeah, there is a big overlap
This is super informative! I saw a comment before on I think another video about how “quiet borderline” is also very similar to avoidant personality disorder. I would love to hear your outlook on that. I like researching about mental health topics as a way to better understand myself and simply because I find it fascinating. I reached a conclusion though that the more I learn, the more unsure I am about everything related to mental health diagnoses 😅
Dude it’s so true 😂 the more I learn the more I realize there isn’t always a clear answer, there’s so much overlap! But yes, quite borderline is a profile that resonates with me a lot so I’ll definitely be talking about that one soon! ❤️
Thank you again, Maxine! 💟
@basedbutgay0 - Hola! como estas? 😀
13:49 Yes they're not opposites. The not caring bit that differentiates schizoid from avoidant....it's just a defense mechanism. The defense goes up and down too, depending on what I'm not-supposed to be caring about. Your theory that long-duration avoidant may lead to schizoid is compelling. I wouldn't bet against it. The emotions hiding under the surface are there, they're the best thing I've got left. Someone to make me cry (in a good way, like a free release of emotions) would be a gift. My empathy is my greatest possession. I pray I never lose it, and for more of it.
Schizoids can be vulnerable and fear being absorbed by society, showing some similarities in avoidance.
AVPD sees themselves as a problem. SPD sees others as a problem (at least for me)
What if I see us all as a problem?
That's not true. SPD can be aware there's something wrong with them from feeling alienated and excluded from the community, the reason why they don't wanna get help is they've learned to adapt and of course "human interaction".
Super interesting to learn about SPD vs AVPD. I sincerely want to wish everyone of you 💜 and respect for being you. Cheers friends.
3-hours later... I just noticed the announcement, that this video is out!
this video and the comments below have been pretty helpful in helping me distinguish both personality disorders, and solidify my alignment with avpd, I really appreciate it! seems like the core revolves around rejection and judgement of an outsider, and while avoidants will respond with fearful attachment to it and obsessive attempts to avoid encounters with judgemental reactions, taking the blame on themselves, schizoids will instead respond with rejection of said outside judgement and blame, and completely disengage from any outsider’s perspective of reality, viewing it as flawed and not worth vulnerability, and therefore interest. it’s interesting to think about, considering they were once labelled as one singular diagnosis together a while back, and now are separated into different clusters altogether.
(though, it makes sense to me that spd would be considered a cluster a schizotype now: both avoidants and schizoids have a core mistrust of the other’s judgement, but schizoids seem to actively reject the other‘s worldview and consider it as inherently suspicious and maybe even persecutory in nature? which aligns well with other schizotype-related disorders and its manifestations. schizoids just happen to not exhibit positive symptoms like hallucinations, delusions, mania and psychotic breaks, in contrast with the rest of them.)
Interesting video. I thought kind of the same as you regarding these two personal disorders, after hearing about AVPD and reading up on the other personal disorders.
I am more interested in something you have mentioned a few times, autism spectrum disorder and AVPD. There seems to be some overlap, at least in the questions for the online tests. But a few things seem quite different, almost excluding, while this is probably not the case. Thanks for good content!
I definitely plan to dedicate a video to ASD eventually but there’s soooooo much information about it now (and some of it conflicting) that I’m a bit overwhelmed in how to approach it honestly. 😅 It’s such a hot (and widely debated) topic right now, I want to make sure I know exactly what I’m trying to say before I say it lol.
But yes, I definitely will talk about it eventually. I’m very interested in the distinctions too.
@@anxious_and_avoidant I agree it does not seem like a small and easy theme, so it is probably good to be careful. Since the questions on many of the test share similar topics, it is probably not that unusual to score height in both AVPD and ASD.
Sam Vaknin has a similar idea that all personality disorders are the same disorder
"My name is sam vaknin and I'm the author of malignant self love narcissism revisited...."
I may have watched 1 or 2 of his videos .....🤣🤣🤣
Or 100
Nice job again breaking this down.
Hi there! I've been following you channel for al long while and I came back to this video. I have struggled with mental health issues like anxiety, depression, low distress tolerance and a bunch of other stuff. Im diagnosed with recurrent depression and a personality disorder in observation (although it is clear to me and my therpaist that I do have it). But, now where to start. The DSM is quite problematic due to some disordders being less reasearched and understood than others, there can be significant comorbidities and overlaps in symptoms. I went through 4 psychological evalutations and we are still not sure what the problem is. If just look at the wikipedia article for SzPD you will find a lot of contraditcions between different diagnostic and treatment approaches. Personality and personality disorders are still poorly understood and its often very difficult to pinpoint what the problem is. Also as you said everybody is different so it is not uncommon for people with the same personality disorder to be completely different, everybody is unique. It usually takes a lot of work to decipher whats going on. There are lots of myths about people with SzPD. Many will report that they are not actually that indiferent to human interaction (some say it comes from fear, some say they truly are indiferrent, some find it unsafe and some boring and exhausting) or indifference to praise/criticism. Also lack of motivation and enjyoment in most activities and emotional expression (I've seen a lot of people with SzPD claiming that they just find human interaction and a lot of stuff boring and unintersting but at the same time posses deep passion and interest for some things. I watched your video on AvPD vs Covert narcissim. And yeah its a clusterfuck tbh. I can relate to all 3 to some extent. Or atleast I could at points in my life when I analyse my past. You mentioned how a person with AvPD when depressed might look a lot like a schizoid person. Ugh its so exhausting. Although I haven't received an offical specific PD diagnosis I like to describe myself as schizoid at the core. I was like that from childhood. Then I got bullied for being different which resulted in the development of AvPD and maybe some covert narc traits. What makes it event more complicated is that some psychoanalital theorists view some degree/expression of narcissim in schizoid patients. I apologize for this ramble. Currently trying to desperatly understand myself. Not sure if youre interested or have time for it. But id really like to see you hosting discussions about the topic with followers who are willing to participate. Share our experiences. I kinda find it fun and interesting despite the fact that these issues can be quite debilitating (I also believe these discussions could turn out quite funny and entertaining in a weird way due to personality dynamics but also therapeutic). I noticed you are quite into researching about all this stuff (not uncommon for people with SzPD xD). Sending you lots of suspected schizoid love and appreaction for what you do (I might be not that indefferent after all). I apologize again for my somewhat incoherent ramble but its all so confusing.
I want to be someone who is able to get out, meet people, maybe even go to a party or get together. Instead I have a deep SHAME related to being around others in a joyful atmosphere. Celebrations, happy events, all of it make me feel deeply shameful. My birthday is the worst. I plan to have a full physical and bloodwork done on my next birthday in March (43rd) I fully expect bad news as I have not taken care of myseld. My plan is to make my birthday be the worst day of my life to date. That is how much I hate being happy and being around people in a happy environment.
I am actually diagnosed with both SzPD and AvPD. I tried to figure out if I had SzPD or AvPD quite some time before my diagnoses and had never considered the possibility of having both because online people always talk about how to distinguish them. Nobody really talks about the experience of living with both (even though this is not even a rare comorbidity as far as I know). Watching your video, I again tried to reflect if maybe it is just AvPD and resulting depression that makes me schizoid but came to the conclusion "Nope". It makes sense for me to be diagnosed with both. The less depressed I am the more schizoid I become. But yes, they are quite similar and also quite different. But they can be comorbid which is kinda weird to live with to be honest. Can be really conflicting internally sometimes.
The struggle of people with SPD is their destructive way loving. They crave love (probably of their moms) and this craving evolves into "Subconsciously wanting to cure their craving." and that is pretty destructive. They fear that they'll lose the person if they try to cure their craving and this leads to "not wanting to socialize". This all happens subconsciously untill they try to make a friend or bf/gf.
you should look into borderline personality disorder
Hi. Always thank you for all videos. If you can tell us about how you hit the ADHD and AvPD duagnosis. I remember you thought you have ASD... When you decide to tell us about you diagnosis process it will be great. But anyway if you do not want to talk about dignosis process, for example, that's also ok. ❤
Hi! The story is not very good, as I live in the USA and our healthcare system is garbagio lol. I still question if I have ASD but can’t get an assessment. For my AvPD diagnosis, I basically self-diagnosed and then did a single telehealth visit with a psychiatrist where I told them I have it and they were like ok yeah sounds correct. And then similarly with ADHD, I did an online assessment and then took it to my regular doctor and he was like ok yeah sure. 😂👌🏻 So essentially I self diagnosed both hahahahaha. But I do wonder if my ADHD symptoms would be better explained by ASD… who knows lol.
@@anxious_and_avoidant I live in Georgia country former republic of USSR (Soviet Union) an now I'm 48 yo. I think our mental healthcare system even worse than yours, but ADHD I've got diagnosed officially with neuropsychologist and 1 year and 9 month before it, I've comming cross, accidentally on youtube vudeo, I suppose or article maybe, don't remember exactly and it was eureka , for me... and after it I start study everyday this stuff and more and more make sure, I had ADHD and still have it as adult, so called adult ADHD. I am graduated clinical psychologist with bachelor degree also. After official diagnosed with ADHD, some others, in this case psychiatrists, also thought so... One another so that I am typicl OCD type but neuropsucjologist weren't sure.... and one just suppose after 3 sessions and my detailed bio I have AvPD plus one another clinical psychologist tested me with MMPI-2 and suppose a lot of trsits and think also that I have one of not so typical AvPD. By not so typical, I and not only I mean that on surface I am very connected, like talk and communication person, outgoing, resstlrss and not so quiet as more classical stereotypical AvPD... I am extraverted, not intraverted, noisy and loud, but very inhibited intimate relationships not only romantically/sex, but even frienship... I have not and almost even had not deep social relationships, mainly due to fear... But in sex/romantic relationship it manifest clearer. I thin I do not have Narcissistic traits generally, but naybe a little Borderline and/or Hisyrionic..., but just only traits... And... maybe also passive-aggressive, traits...
Thank you for reply me and very sorry I write so long comment...
I don't want bother you.
@@neurodivergent7744 I actually can relate to some degree - I think I appear more “outgoing” and “social” than a lot of people with AvPD and I attribute that to my ADHD! All the fear of inadequacy and avoidance is there on a deep level, but superficially I am able to be somewhat “charming” in some social situations and even enjoy myself in the moment.
It’s interesting because the rejection sensitivity is a symptom of ADHD that I feel makes my AvPD worse, but at the same time, I feel like my talkativeness helps me to mask it somewhat. Mental health is very confusing tho! There is so much overlap between conditions and also some contradictions within them. We’re all just doing our best to understand ourselves. ❤️🩹
I've been diagnosed officially as "schizoaffective bi-polar" and I once asked a therapist what personality disorder I might have, and she said it could be a personality type as well so maybe that's what's wrong with me. I've always felt too different to really integrate into greater society but I find society to be barbaric and depraved anyway. I am really uncomfortable with my material animal origin form and would do anything God asked me to to escape it and get a new form.
Dissociate from your feelings. Not disassociate. There is a distinction here when talking about it in a clinical setting.
I’ve always been confused by this 😅 thanks
Nobody is 100% perfect. Nobody. Everyone has issues.
The discord link says it's expired.
Aw shoot, I could swear I chose “never expire” 😅 I’ll get an updated one, thank you!
Nothing to do with A&A or this video but "Personality Disorder" is a horrible label no matter which one it is we're talking about. It's entirely from the perspective of the outsider not suffering from the affliction. They perceive a "personality disorder" when these conditions are often the best order a person can put themselves in. Avoidant or Schizoid, it'd be a dream come true to share time with someone else like that.
I agree, it’s pretty dehumanizing to describe it that way 😫
@@anxious_and_avoidant Yeah it's kinda bizarre that that's the official naming convention the experts wound up with. There's so many of the "personality disorders" too, it seems lazy at best and just plain wrong at worst.
Avpd is not good. Boy do I get much disdain from people at times. Even though I’m friendly and kind and positive they obviously see I’m avoiding some type of connnection. I’m sure some of these guys think I’m a psycho. However I just have extréme social anxiety. Childhood I guess I don’t know what happened but it’s a thing I’ve been doing for almost 30 years now
❤✌️
Never try to identify which of those disroders you have. Take for granted, that to have a strong body one needs to feel the pain of heavy lifting. Same with soul. The one who wants his souls to be as strong as a full plate armour, needs to go outside naked, into the storm and take a bath in a rain of ridicule, humiliation and enmity. Only then, just like with body, soul will develope its own musles and become strong. Living isn't about safety and feeling comfy, but taking a hardship in a survival called LIFE. There is only one law in life. Law of the Jungle. It up to you if you will become hunter or prey.
I think your comments are coming from a good place, but there’s no need to invalidate anyone’s experience in doing so. Identifying which disorders one has can be empowering and helpful in their journey to understand how they came to be who they are, especially because they are a direct result of trauma that they’ve often spent a large part of their life trying to just “muscle through” only to see it getting worse and worse.
If you live by the law of the jungle and that works for you, more power to you. But it’s not the simple for everyone.
I have schizoid personality disorder. Major depression and anxiety disorder.
My depression is better my anxiety is still high.
Schizoid there are no medications
It all sucks😂
Yuuup personality disorders are so difficult to treat 😩❤️ I feel you!
Well, I'd suggest that we have been trapped by a particular fear cycle, so like most fears the way out is through, personally I have to meet different people most days for work, and that crippling social anxiety that often led to blushing with embarrassment at the slightest attention upon me, has lessened hugely, in fact I almost appear confident now, and that is simply by confronting that fear.
Oh, boy, America.
I have APD, ADHD, ASPD, and in order to get THAT, I had to catch cPTSD!
Wear them badges with Pride!
Personality structure. 😁
Or just cute enough? :P