I feel that mana cheating can only be fine on those big champions that basically say "if you level me win the game". Aurelian Sol is a perfect example in my opinion. He makes big cards from a limited pool FREE! But, at that stage in the game it's not broken and there is still a chance to play against it.
The best "win the game" card to me is level 3 azir. There isn't even a discount, his deck is just so obscenely high value its an unstoppable force by nature.
@@justascarecrow6988 nab is cool and all but when they play that card it wont have the same effect since it wont draw from the emperors deck for more value. 3 mana 5/4 fearsome? cool. i have two more.
@@onlinepanic2036 Ascended's call, the 10 mana spell that summons Nasus and Renekton at max level (AND rallies) is always on the bottom of the Emperor's Deck, so if your opponent nabs it its quite likely you lose the game, (at least that's what I would assume).
@@kayaek2558 emporors deck has 2 rallies. ascendeds call, and the landmark. and they really dont need rallies to win. most games where azir levels up xerath is carpet bombing people and sandstorms are wiping value off the board left and right.
@@Cheasle2 People had several reasons to hate her and most of them are justified. The one i like the most is that Riot keeps nerfing Sona and could easily used Seraphine's kit do be Sona's rework making it easier to balance.
@@euqinemor Seraphine is very far from being a problematic champ compared to other recent ones when it comes to this anyway. Also while they are quite similar, Sona is more of an Enchanter, Seraphine is more of a control mage. The issue of Sona not receiving buffs is more noticed because they look similar, but go check how many 6300 shards champs are costantly picked vs older ones. Some stood the test of time (Yi for example), but how often do you see Soraka? Garen? Ashe as an actual ADC? They aren't necessarly bad, just like Sona, but their pick rates are tanked by having similar but superior choices. I really like Soraka modern kit, but I still play Nami over her because... Why wouldn't I? Nami is strong no matter what. Soraka heals way too little compared to the average DPS these days
Seraphine, Fanclub President and Songspinner, and maybe some others (essentially the piltover music package), should reveal the cards they create or draw. It would be pretty favourful for the "music cards" to show off to the opponent their creations. Back Alley bar should have "new and not reduced cards cost 1 less". That way you can have fun with the "new card" archetype, but can't stack discounts with viktor, drum solo, fanclub, etc. I really think discounts + random cards is the problem. If you want to nerf discounts, fine, but I believe that in order to not postpone the problem for a new card to break the game, just freaking reveal the created cards. That solves the "impossible to play around" problem for good, even if new cards are introduced to the pool, or that stack discounts.
I hope you guys enjoyed the video! I strongly disliked the Seraphine archetype but I really didn't want this video to sound negative, but more of a "hey this is what happened during this meta and here's what we had to deal with". This is a celebration of Runeterra and the passionate community we have. Speaking of the awesome community, here are some of the cameos, people that helped me with the script, or generally people that inspired me with their insight: TheLegendXVII: www.youtube.com/@TheLegendXXVII AlanzqTFT: www.twitch.tv/alanzqtft MajinBae: www.youtube.com/@MajiinBae PuffballPanda: www.youtube.com/@PuffballPanda Yangzera: twitter.com/Yangzera LadyPickl: twitter.com/LadyPickl Drisoth: twitter.com/Drisoth Footballhead: twitter.com/Football_Head2 YelloMagi THIS DOESN'T MEAN THEY AGREE WITH ME AND THE VIDEO, I JUST LOVE THEIR CONTENT AND WANTED TO INCLUDE THEM
Totally agree with the main point. Having a deck with this much RNG and mana cheating be competitively viable is no bueno. For exactly the reason you pointed out via Rubin Zoo's tweet. It removes skill based gameplay and replaces it with: praydge they don't have some bullchip. This is the kind of deck that belongs at like a 30-40% winrate. It can still be allowed to do bonkers things, just not with consistency to make it viable in competitive play.
I got into runeterra right during Searaphines release and there was nothing worse than dying from 15+ HP because of ezreal and burst spells. Super frustrating
YES! YES! THIS VIDEO IS PERFECTION! Mana cheating is one of the most annoying things you can have in a card game. As a player of magic the gathering i can say that when a card has zero cost or you can play another card for free it is a broken card. If your oponnent is out of mana, HE SHOULDN´T BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING!
I remember lor in 2020 being a completely different game. The limited card pool actually made it possible to play around SI removing your key cards, because you knew they had 3 copies of *kill one thing* and 3 copies of *kill all things* at most. Nowadays there are so many options of doing one thing, it feels almost pointless to play around your opponent doing a certain thing. Ionia encorporates this pretty hard with 3 seperate deny effects, but even the Tellstone set allows for so mch overload of specific mechanics, it feels uncontrollable in a way.
I feel this especially in SI/Freljord decks. They can run nothing but Kill Things Somehow and a bit of ramp/heal, then instantly win the game by dropping some high mana card. I get punished for going wide and going tall and have a very limited timeframe to win.
@@CalpolMeister just that Riot is too much of a coward to actually rotate a meaningful share of the cardpool sadly. Rotating 3 out of like 60 champions doesn't solve anything even of 2 of these champions are from problematic broken archetypes (TF and Irelia). The game needs a real rotation and it needs it badly
@@tobias97erdt its a problem of critical mass. When theres too many cards that do one thing, the deck that wants to do that thing becomes too consistant. Thats one of the issues with red gwen, theres no real bad draws in that deck
I think the best way to manage this kind of archetype….well, not to have it in the first place. but since that’s never happening, make it so that every manifested card is revealed to your opponent. This will not only ease the burden of tracking information, but provide meaningful counter play windows. It will also make a lot of the more powerful cards (atrocity, vengeance, deny, stuff like that) a lot less valuable, as you would have clear notice of its existence.
Imagine a card that increases the mana cost of all cards on the stack by 1 fizzle cards that don't have enough mana. Ez when leveled makes all burst spells fast speed to force interaction. While I'd like to say rotation will solve this I would like the eternal to have solutions implemented.
Ya, I stopped playing when Seraphine came out, started playing again when she got nerfed. Been playing since beta and that was single-handedly the worst experience for me.
the worst metas in runeterra imo were -azirelia -kaisa post launch -seraphine post launch people argue that vayne post launch and Aatrox rn are also bad metas but they have nothing on how cheated we felt from these 3 combos. Aatrox respects your mana and gives you time to react, that is something i cannot say for the others, especially seraphine and kaisa, that would essencially burst fuck you. Finally they took some good hits, it is still frustrating when they get lucky but at least we have more counterplay now.
Well edited, well researched, and well narrated. This video had me both nodding in agreement and laughing at the dumb jokes. Super entertaining to watch, and good on you for crediting the cameos. Looking forward to more of these types of videos from you !
My favourite LoR moments are the ones where I felt like playing chess against the enemy, planing my moves, anticipating and reacting to enemy's moves while the match slowly build up to that critical moment when it all come downs to that one round to determine the winner. Too bad I think only the early patches gave me that thrill, or maybe just the novelty wears off Idk.
As a competitive player, I agree with what you said. Seraphine almost made me quit the game. When you play against her or other powerful rng cards (peak, timelines), it feels like you decisions over the game just don't matter anymore, what matters is how good your opponent can roll.
Love these types of videos. This gives me a better understanding why Seraphine was problematic gameplay wise. But it still feels that Ezreal is the bigger problem though.
I think the only problem with RNG is the mana discount. It doesn't matter if you get bad luck with draw or card generation if it's free and you can just try it again. You shouldn't be able to play 20 cards on one turn in a game with max 13 mana.
I remember when back alley bar was announced and sunny gave it a 1/10 rating. and then it turn out to be an 11/10 card what an insane meta we had honestly.
I might be totally wrong here but I honestly think that all card generation should be from a limited pool. Either a specific pool like Invoke or from your regions.
Funny story The game that made me stop using the deck i won because conchologist created a timelines and bar created a void abomination. So because bar made the abomination cost 1 less i was able to transform it into a shipwreck hoard, wich was deep. So in the deck with no big creatures as threats i won because i dropped a fuckin 10/8 with elusive and all the other keywords my viktor had.
You can just say "RNG", Seraphine was just the poor champion to get to represent it. She deserved way better, it drive me insane how flow was MADE for her and how she could work along with it but they decided to make her a fucking random generator... It is like how Ahri paid for elusives crime + kennen being the only creature recall card properly giving some kind of tempo/combo capacity.
i read the other day that the human mind can handle about six to seven potential outcomes in considering strategy, after which it starts to get bored and give up. sera decks quickly get past that which ironically makes the game just let me do my powerful thing and ignore you, not bc it's impossible to interact, but bc it's way too complex
This is exactly why Im annoyed we got the pink haired banshee before we got Sona, Seraphine just always has a cloud of trouble following right after her no matter where she goes
Quality content as always very good video Snnuy !! creators like you are what still making me sticking around even when the meta is ridiculous sometimes.
maybe this would be a good ezreal rework: Changed Ezreal lvl 2 : Copy deal 2 to enemy Nexus when you play mystic shot. That would make Ezreal a pure combo champion, because u have to ensure in the deck, that you have access to mystic shot to deal the necessairy face dmg.
Out of all of the regions, pnz was by far the one I hated the most, probably the only one I could say I hated to begin with. Once Seraphine was released, it was just of a nail in the coffin for me 'cus they were just proving to me how awful pnz was to play against by adding more of what I hated to begin with.
Extremely well articulated retrospective, and turned around at the best time given rotations are on the horizon - useful for players and devs alike, great video
I am kinda on a break form LoR right now, since right after this issue we immediately headed into the AAtrox decks just win meta and I needed to spend some time away.
i had an idea for ezreal to make his lv less toxic "when you target only one enemy target or Nexus cast a (slow skill) mistyc shot targeting the same target, if there is no target damage the enemy nexus instead" it makes the busrt damage imposible cause the skill enters the spell stack, but also makes the 2 damage happens BEFORE the targeting effect so you need to think of how to use it, and it doesn't go for the nexus first but instead try to clean you out. gives him sinergy with jhin and/or annie, and makes his level up condition consistant with his level uo form
i vehemently hate seraphine due to the numerous controversies she stirred up with her launch in league, so frankly i'm not okay with her existence anywhere, everything you mentioned in this video was just more fuel for the fire
i feel like legends of runeterra needs something like the death and taxes deck from MTG, or even something like the stax deck. for anyone who isn't familiar, these decks seek to win the game by hurting your opponent's mana/mana costs, making spells more expensive, destroying mana gems etc. something to not just let these kind of 100 spells per turn decks go buckwild.
I always said when I used to play champions like Ezreal or Fiora will be either always a problem or to useless to be played properly Ezreal is in what his 5th or 6th nerf and still always find a way to apear (atleast when I used to play) 1 or 2 times for year in a toxic meta. And in the other hand you have champions like fiora that need to be useless because if she is in the meta and winning usually means something its wrong
I don't want to be sound selfish and self-centered, but I noticed that when a champion that I hate in league is added in runeterra, it olso creates the most busted and toxic metas. Ex: I hate irelia, azir/irelia meta, always thought Kai'Sa was an horrible addition to the void (one of my favorite regions), the Kai'Sa compo meta, and now Seraphine who was universally hated from day 0, together with her package, got us the rng meta. Sorry that I sound self-centered, I just couldn't ignore the cruel irony.
4:24 from the card in Legends of Runeterra I see her kit needs to be reworked into a new one thats more aggressive based, making her similar to Sona but different. Like for cc she has to dash into enemies to incentives her allies to follow up or she heals allies more depending on how much damage she dealt to enemies.(Supportive Battlemage fits this idea.)
Let's be honest the biggest issue with the entirety of the Seraphine Deck. Is take it's all in one region. If some of the cards were spread out in the regions it would be much better, but for P&Z to be card generator, face pinger, card discounter, card copier, spell copier, atk buffer, spell mana generator and giving it access to other regions cards with it's own region's cards is just way, WAYYYYY to self-suffcient to even be considered fair. Like piltover might as well be locked out from being played with other regions, cause it will still see play and win games as it is currently.
I don't think its a big deal but when you mentioned tetris has random piece generation, that is technically not true. While Tetris (Nes) and before had fully randomized piece generation, Every modern Tetris has a guarantee of getting every single tetris piece within a group of 7. Which honestly helps defend your case of rng being bs when it is truly unlimited.
I think that most mana cheating should be limited to "to a minimum of 1", and some very specific effects could reduce some cards to 0. I hated playing against Seraphine decks because, as you mentioned, there is no beating "I casted 15 mana worth of spells and paid 3 for it". EDIT: Fanclub president is just atrocious, imo. The "reduce a 5 cost spell to 2" was downright disgusting.
back then the deck was so easy to play for everyone, nowadays I feel you really need to be good at decision-making for having the best win rate with seraphine, and yeah is so frustrating if you have the exodia combo in hand. but today is harder to get.
How about double down on the RNG? The bar can have the same text, but add this: "All of your spells and skills now have random targets" cuz it's a bar goddamnit
yeah, this basically sums up everything I don't like about LoR atm (I still play a lot and I know it was worse before the nerfs, thank god these decks are rare atm) I'ts not jsut random discounted cards you can't play around, it's not just that when these decks go for the kill there is usually absolutely nothing you can do about it, it's that the kills often take a very long time to sort themselves out, and it's madiningly boring.
as a "new" LoR player its kinda sad trying to have fun playing when everyone plays the same 3-4 regions combinations that can end the game in 5 turns every time just by existing
Ezreal becoming overpowered and running the meta because new stuff got added and he abuses it better than everyone is just very in-character for him considering his League self
As a former hardcore LoR fan, the reason for why I quit was that the game just turned into "wait for the balance patches so you can play the game again" and frankly i simply think that the games balance is kindoff terrible and has been for a long time. They just keep releasing compleatly broken cards that just temporarily take over the entire game and rarely bother trying to fix some of the older champions flaws. And even when they try fixing the old champions flaws they just compleatly miss the mark most of the time, just look at how many new support cards they gave Vladimir, instead of fixing his already existing ones, if you were to run a Vladimir deck with all of his support cards at once you'd be looking at a 50+ card deck. Their nerfing philosophy also seems terrible nowdays, first of all they usually take way too long to nerf the new oppressive cards they add but when they finally get around to do it, they usually nerf the card into a compleatly unusable state. For example, back when Lissandra Matreon was a thing and she was able to cheat out The Watcher way too early, all they had to do was change Matreon so it only would be able to pull 10 mana cost cards, instead they nerfed Lissandras level up and made The Watcher COMPLEATLY useless. I just want the devs to stop releasing new cards at this point and take some sereos time, to look over all the champions in the game and do a MASSIVE rework, with the goal of fixing all of their past mistakes.
It honestly breaks my heart where the game is today. I can't stand RNG in a competitive setting. I really only play Path of Legends. The randomness is just too common.
How do I feel about Seraphine ruining something or someone I enjoy personally? *[audible tense silence]* ........... *[continues glaring at everyone]* ...................
Man I loved LoR as a card game when it came out since it didn't have RNG back then, and it didn't have that Hearthstone fiasco RNG gameplay, but when Seraphine came out, I just stopped playing the game entirely. I was very disappointed when full RNG was implemented into some cards. I was fine with the "invoke" mechanic since it was controlled, and had a specific set of cards that can only be generated via "invoke." I'm just sad that I won't be playing this game anymore, but with that said I'll still be keeping up with LoR for the reveals and such, and also see where Riot takes the game.
I stopped playing Runeterra because of the Seraphine meta, straight afther the Kai'Sa meta. RNG isn't so much the issue standalone, it was the fact that you cannot safely predict what the opponent might or might not have, because they could still play random cards from all over the game, empty their hand, for 0 mana... I wanna suggest a good solution. Make certain discounts (0 mana cards are fine as long as the yare balanced being around 0 mana) only grant up to a maxiumum of 1 mana, maining if you draw a 2 cost card with Drum solo's flow, it would go down to 1 mana instead of 0. Why i suggest this? Im taking a example from another card game i fell in love with lately, Marvel SNAP. Whilst it is controversial because it completly reïnvents the card battler genre (Or how TF you wanna call it) But has some verry carefull and well tought out mechanics. Almost all discounts (Except for a single location that is not deck-dependant, so that is just pure RNg if you will see it or not) have a MAXIUM of reducing cards to 1 cost, meaning you cannot physically cheat out cards for free if you maindeck said cost reductions. BTW Snnuy, we should talk about marvel SNAP sometimes, i think i have quite a bit of ideas that are great examples of doing cards right AND wrong. Take this saying i have "he whom doesn't learn from their mistakes, doesn't progress. He whom learns from their mistakes, progresses. But he whom, lerns from his mistakes, but also others mistakes, evolves."
I've played runeterra since the beginning like many players and to be honest I played all through this seraphine meta while I did play a decent amount of seraphine I also played other decks (lurk, monoshurima, deep, dragons, and more) and had fun tbh. To me when I saw throughout this time people saying seraphine is the worst thing to happen to runeterra I just never understood why people hated it so much even now I dont really understand. To me losing to the same curve every game (like kaisa or when pantheon was strong) is the most frustrating thing ever. Like having my opponent play the same 2 or 3 1 drops and then the same 2 or 3 2 drops and then the same 3 into 4 into 5 drops is like.... Why am I playing the same game 20 times in a row. Azir Irelia or leesin are also 100x more frustrating for me to play against.
I like the editing, it's very entertaining to watch. However, there should be a massive ratio on the "rng" part of this thing. I remember how some questionable person (Swim?) was saying that "nerfing loping concho and mayor wont fix the BC" but it did fix it. Now, there are two singular cards in the game that truly cause problems - Ezreal and Bar. Ezreal is a wincon to decks that dont have a wincon and bar is basically 6 mana glorious evolution. So, much like when I said that nerfing conch loping and mayor will fix BC, I am saying that nerfing/reworking/rotating (Doesn't fucking matter, this champion can be removed entirely and not a single other card in the game will see any change in play) ezreal and nerfing bar will fix the issue. Maybe bar should create barkeep in hand, maybe it should, like, lower the cost by 2, but only of CREATED cards? That would be pretty interesting actually, because there are several decks that would use such interaction - and it would allow cards like Electrorig or Counterfeit to truly be played. Right now, Runeterra has like 20-30 very playable archetypes, and even B-tier decks like Dragons or Scargrounds absolutely dumpster most off-meta decks that can't even be called "decks" because not enough people play them. I am talking slotbot army, Zevi Lee Sin, Legion Parauders, Messanger swarm. Riot should print tools for fun and new decks, and not already existing ones. I swear, if I see one more fucking shroom support card I am going to lose my shit. This archetype gets more support than all the others combined!
I dropped LoR a week or two into Seraphine's release. The game has progressively worsened and all of my joy vanished. Even during the BC meta it was my most played game. I would strive for masters every season and now I can't even be bothered. I really miss it, but I can't deal with the levels of variance that takes control away from me as a player.
Honestly, for me it's not that much about the powercreep, as the fact that this kind of archetypes are slowly making the Region system pointless. Specially now with more Runeterra champions with Origins that allow them to pick and choose cards from basically regions. It's like the developers suddenly regreted building the Region system, and were finding ways to evade it.
Funny how ezreal in both games force the developers to consider "can ezreal abuse this?" Like runeglaive and old on hit effects, that can't be too goo because ezreals Q just use it better. RNG keep some games interesting in ways that are only possible in an online game, but it isn't fun when the possibilities are out of the realm of acceptable
I like RNG, and I like discounts, I just hate when they're able to be put together. If they exist in the same game at the same time, they need to be unplayable in combination. Potentially literally, if changed Riot bar to be (for example) "New spells that started the game in your library cost 2 less" (increasing the discount because it no longer cheats created stuff), and have Barkeep draw new spells instead of create them, I'd really like it as an archetype.
![Cody Johnson - I'm Gonna Love You (with Carrie Underwood) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yy9PuYMU29g/mqdefault.jpg)
I feel that mana cheating can only be fine on those big champions that basically say "if you level me win the game". Aurelian Sol is a perfect example in my opinion. He makes big cards from a limited pool FREE! But, at that stage in the game it's not broken and there is still a chance to play against it.
The best "win the game" card to me is level 3 azir. There isn't even a discount, his deck is just so obscenely high value its an unstoppable force by nature.
@@onlinepanic2036 Unless you are fighting a nab deck.
@@justascarecrow6988 nab is cool and all but when they play that card it wont have the same effect since it wont draw from the emperors deck for more value.
3 mana 5/4 fearsome? cool. i have two more.
@@onlinepanic2036 Ascended's call, the 10 mana spell that summons Nasus and Renekton at max level (AND rallies) is always on the bottom of the Emperor's Deck, so if your opponent nabs it its quite likely you lose the game, (at least that's what I would assume).
@@kayaek2558 emporors deck has 2 rallies. ascendeds call, and the landmark. and they really dont need rallies to win. most games where azir levels up xerath is carpet bombing people and sandstorms are wiping value off the board left and right.
Snuuy: "Seraphine-"
Chat: AAAAAAAAAA
Kai'sa: levels
Chat: STAH GARDIAN HYA
Hillarious how Seraphine almost ruined one game and came to another just to do the same
At least she didn't ruin WR.
EXACTLY
Seraphine didn't ruin league at all, people just like to hate on her.
@@Cheasle2 People had several reasons to hate her and most of them are justified. The one i like the most is that Riot keeps nerfing Sona and could easily used Seraphine's kit do be Sona's rework making it easier to balance.
@@euqinemor Seraphine is very far from being a problematic champ compared to other recent ones when it comes to this anyway.
Also while they are quite similar, Sona is more of an Enchanter, Seraphine is more of a control mage.
The issue of Sona not receiving buffs is more noticed because they look similar, but go check how many 6300 shards champs are costantly picked vs older ones.
Some stood the test of time (Yi for example), but how often do you see Soraka? Garen? Ashe as an actual ADC? They aren't necessarly bad, just like Sona, but their pick rates are tanked by having similar but superior choices.
I really like Soraka modern kit, but I still play Nami over her because... Why wouldn't I? Nami is strong no matter what. Soraka heals way too little compared to the average DPS these days
Seraphine, Fanclub President and Songspinner, and maybe some others (essentially the piltover music package), should reveal the cards they create or draw. It would be pretty favourful for the "music cards" to show off to the opponent their creations.
Back Alley bar should have "new and not reduced cards cost 1 less". That way you can have fun with the "new card" archetype, but can't stack discounts with viktor, drum solo, fanclub, etc.
I really think discounts + random cards is the problem. If you want to nerf discounts, fine, but I believe that in order to not postpone the problem for a new card to break the game, just freaking reveal the created cards. That solves the "impossible to play around" problem for good, even if new cards are introduced to the pool, or that stack discounts.
Put a Countdown on BAB so it dissipates, or disolve after playing X cards. Cant discoubt the whole store right?
@@pedropimenta896 Bar costs 7 mana now, it's too expensive for a countdown.
I think they could make bar like Sera from Marvel Snap and make it so That it cant discount card to 0 cost
I hope you guys enjoyed the video! I strongly disliked the Seraphine archetype but I really didn't want this video to sound negative, but more of a "hey this is what happened during this meta and here's what we had to deal with".
This is a celebration of Runeterra and the passionate community we have.
Speaking of the awesome community, here are some of the cameos, people that helped me with the script, or generally people that inspired me with their insight:
TheLegendXVII: www.youtube.com/@TheLegendXXVII
AlanzqTFT: www.twitch.tv/alanzqtft
MajinBae: www.youtube.com/@MajiinBae
PuffballPanda: www.youtube.com/@PuffballPanda
Yangzera: twitter.com/Yangzera
LadyPickl: twitter.com/LadyPickl
Drisoth: twitter.com/Drisoth
Footballhead: twitter.com/Football_Head2
YelloMagi
THIS DOESN'T MEAN THEY AGREE WITH ME AND THE VIDEO, I JUST LOVE THEIR CONTENT AND WANTED TO INCLUDE THEM
Amazing video!! very well edited and i didn't feel the pass of time until i finished it! 👏👏👏
Lady pickle best streamer. not even inclucing her twitch smh
we need more undertale music in your videos !!!
RELEASE YOUR MARIO KART VIDEOS!!!!
she should be good with decks like avatar of the tide or some control like that, not some bullsh't 20 to 0 magic
You are getting better and better at making these!
Proud of you
That note on the right alone is such a fantastic design, goddamn. Fantastic art
Totally agree with the main point. Having a deck with this much RNG and mana cheating be competitively viable is no bueno. For exactly the reason you pointed out via Rubin Zoo's tweet. It removes skill based gameplay and replaces it with: praydge they don't have some bullchip. This is the kind of deck that belongs at like a 30-40% winrate. It can still be allowed to do bonkers things, just not with consistency to make it viable in competitive play.
Seeing the Puffball Panda and MajiinBae in here was so cool and very funny.
0:38 dude the timing of that soundeffect in combination with your face just going into disappointment mode. I can’t stop laughing at it😂
I got into runeterra right during Searaphines release and there was nothing worse than dying from 15+ HP because of ezreal and burst spells. Super frustrating
Cringe Seraphine: Why does everyone hate me? You are supposed to like me!
Chad Aatrox: "Come. Let me earn their hatred. Again. And forever."
YES, at least aatrox is chad when he kills you
@@arjunbaweja7755 I just want Aatrox to get his happy ending… 😢
reddit is down the hall to the left
@@Headchrusherdethrope chair and soap are waiting you at home
8:25 glad to see a content creator calling out this stupid change. My respect for you has grown, Snnuy.
YES! YES! THIS VIDEO IS PERFECTION! Mana cheating is one of the most annoying things you can have in a card game. As a player of magic the gathering i can say that when a card has zero cost or you can play another card for free it is a broken card. If your oponnent is out of mana, HE SHOULDN´T BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING!
I remember lor in 2020 being a completely different game. The limited card pool actually made it possible to play around SI removing your key cards, because you knew they had 3 copies of *kill one thing* and 3 copies of *kill all things* at most.
Nowadays there are so many options of doing one thing, it feels almost pointless to play around your opponent doing a certain thing.
Ionia encorporates this pretty hard with 3 seperate deny effects, but even the Tellstone set allows for so mch overload of specific mechanics, it feels uncontrollable in a way.
I feel this especially in SI/Freljord decks. They can run nothing but Kill Things Somehow and a bit of ramp/heal, then instantly win the game by dropping some high mana card. I get punished for going wide and going tall and have a very limited timeframe to win.
Thats why Rotation is on the way BAYBEE
@@CalpolMeister just that Riot is too much of a coward to actually rotate a meaningful share of the cardpool sadly.
Rotating 3 out of like 60 champions doesn't solve anything even of 2 of these champions are from problematic broken archetypes (TF and Irelia).
The game needs a real rotation and it needs it badly
@@tobias97erdt its a problem of critical mass. When theres too many cards that do one thing, the deck that wants to do that thing becomes too consistant. Thats one of the issues with red gwen, theres no real bad draws in that deck
I think the best way to manage this kind of archetype….well, not to have it in the first place. but since that’s never happening, make it so that every manifested card is revealed to your opponent. This will not only ease the burden of tracking information, but provide meaningful counter play windows. It will also make a lot of the more powerful cards (atrocity, vengeance, deny, stuff like that) a lot less valuable, as you would have clear notice of its existence.
I want seraphine decks to be actually unplayable.
Imagine a card that increases the mana cost of all cards on the stack by 1 fizzle cards that don't have enough mana.
Ez when leveled makes all burst spells fast speed to force interaction.
While I'd like to say rotation will solve this I would like the eternal to have solutions implemented.
Ya, I stopped playing when Seraphine came out, started playing again when she got nerfed. Been playing since beta and that was single-handedly the worst experience for me.
the worst metas in runeterra imo were
-azirelia
-kaisa post launch
-seraphine post launch
people argue that vayne post launch and Aatrox rn are also bad metas but they have nothing on how cheated we felt from these 3 combos. Aatrox respects your mana and gives you time to react, that is something i cannot say for the others, especially seraphine and kaisa, that would essencially burst fuck you. Finally they took some good hits, it is still frustrating when they get lucky but at least we have more counterplay now.
"Almost" is a mild word honestly.
As someone who has played card games for over a decade it'll always surprise me how often we get 1 deck formats
Snnuy you're so on point in this video about the mana cheating issue currently happening in the game
I can never forget loping telecscope "VA" it still haunts me till this day.
Well edited, well researched, and well narrated. This video had me both nodding in agreement and laughing at the dumb jokes. Super entertaining to watch, and good on you for crediting the cameos. Looking forward to more of these types of videos from you !
when i called doom when they revealed seraphine and her support cards (especially the support cards), no one wanted to believe lol
Every time that classic Sunny Cyber’s World remix outro comes on you know I’m jamming out to it. What an absolute banger
My favourite LoR moments are the ones where I felt like playing chess against the enemy, planing my moves, anticipating and reacting to enemy's moves while the match slowly build up to that critical moment when it all come downs to that one round to determine the winner. Too bad I think only the early patches gave me that thrill, or maybe just the novelty wears off Idk.
As a competitive player, I agree with what you said. Seraphine almost made me quit the game. When you play against her or other powerful rng cards (peak, timelines), it feels like you decisions over the game just don't matter anymore, what matters is how good your opponent can roll.
Love these types of videos. This gives me a better understanding why Seraphine was problematic gameplay wise. But it still feels that Ezreal is the bigger problem though.
I think the only problem with RNG is the mana discount. It doesn't matter if you get bad luck with draw or card generation if it's free and you can just try it again.
You shouldn't be able to play 20 cards on one turn in a game with max 13 mana.
I remember when back alley bar was announced and sunny gave it a 1/10 rating. and then it turn out to be an 11/10 card what an insane meta we had honestly.
Sera is what made it insane, before her it was a decent card but not as meta warping.
I might be totally wrong here but I honestly think that all card generation should be from a limited pool. Either a specific pool like Invoke or from your regions.
Also rotate Ezreal.
It's why I love YGO, everyone starts with 10 mana; And bullshit just start flying from the get go.
Funny story
The game that made me stop using the deck i won because conchologist created a timelines and bar created a void abomination.
So because bar made the abomination cost 1 less i was able to transform it into a shipwreck hoard, wich was deep.
So in the deck with no big creatures as threats i won because i dropped a fuckin 10/8 with elusive and all the other keywords my viktor had.
There are many languages out there and Snnuy decided to speak in facts.
9:10 I can't 😂😂😂😂
Galio dying to 0 mana ...
What has this game become ?
that artstyle of the art from the thumbnail feels familiar but I just can't put my finger on it
This was such a good video ! Very informative, and its easy to see you have put a lot of effort into it. I loved the part with LeBlanc's theme !!
The thumbnail is sick
What if Back Alley Bar can only discount the cards created by Barkeep. What if Fanclub's effect only happens if player is in Flow.
You can just say "RNG", Seraphine was just the poor champion to get to represent it. She deserved way better, it drive me insane how flow was MADE for her and how she could work along with it but they decided to make her a fucking random generator...
It is like how Ahri paid for elusives crime + kennen being the only creature recall card properly giving some kind of tempo/combo capacity.
Thank you for this vid! This is actually my favorite format on your channel, perfect mix of comedy and analytics
Remember when rito said "we made portals not summon specific cards because they're bad for the game"
But left sun disc in landmark generation
i read the other day that the human mind can handle about six to seven potential outcomes in considering strategy, after which it starts to get bored and give up. sera decks quickly get past that which ironically makes the game just let me do my powerful thing and ignore you, not bc it's impossible to interact, but bc it's way too complex
This is exactly why Im annoyed we got the pink haired banshee before we got Sona, Seraphine just always has a cloud of trouble following right after her no matter where she goes
Perfect explanation
"A cloud of trouble following her, no matter where she goes"
Just perfect
Quality content as always very good video Snnuy !! creators like you are what still making me sticking around even when the meta is ridiculous sometimes.
maybe this would be a good ezreal rework: Changed Ezreal lvl 2 : Copy deal 2 to enemy Nexus when you play mystic shot. That would make Ezreal a pure combo champion, because u have to ensure in the deck, that you have access to mystic shot to deal the necessairy face dmg.
Out of all of the regions, pnz was by far the one I hated the most, probably the only one I could say I hated to begin with. Once Seraphine was released, it was just of a nail in the coffin for me 'cus they were just proving to me how awful pnz was to play against by adding more of what I hated to begin with.
Extremely well articulated retrospective, and turned around at the best time given rotations are on the horizon - useful for players and devs alike, great video
I am kinda on a break form LoR right now, since right after this issue we immediately headed into the AAtrox decks just win meta and I needed to spend some time away.
Wow, I absolutely adore this editing style. Really really well done video!!
Man the quality of this video is crisp keep up with the good work👍
i had an idea for ezreal to make his lv less toxic
"when you target only one enemy target or Nexus cast a (slow skill) mistyc shot targeting the same target, if there is no target damage the enemy nexus instead"
it makes the busrt damage imposible cause the skill enters the spell stack, but also makes the 2 damage happens BEFORE the targeting effect so you need to think of how to use it, and it doesn't go for the nexus first but instead try to clean you out. gives him sinergy with jhin and/or annie, and makes his level up condition consistant with his level uo form
i vehemently hate seraphine due to the numerous controversies she stirred up with her launch in league, so frankly i'm not okay with her existence anywhere, everything you mentioned in this video was just more fuel for the fire
i feel like legends of runeterra needs something like the death and taxes deck from MTG, or even something like the stax deck. for anyone who isn't familiar, these decks seek to win the game by hurting your opponent's mana/mana costs, making spells more expensive, destroying mana gems etc. something to not just let these kind of 100 spells per turn decks go buckwild.
I always said when I used to play champions like Ezreal or Fiora will be either always a problem or to useless to be played properly
Ezreal is in what his 5th or 6th nerf and still always find a way to apear (atleast when I used to play) 1 or 2 times for year in a toxic meta.
And in the other hand you have champions like fiora that need to be useless because if she is in the meta and winning usually means something its wrong
I love all your videos almost as much as i love recalling and denying.
No seriously good video. :)
I don't want to be sound selfish and self-centered, but I noticed that when a champion that I hate in league is added in runeterra, it olso creates the most busted and toxic metas. Ex: I hate irelia, azir/irelia meta, always thought Kai'Sa was an horrible addition to the void (one of my favorite regions), the Kai'Sa compo meta, and now Seraphine who was universally hated from day 0, together with her package, got us the rng meta.
Sorry that I sound self-centered, I just couldn't ignore the cruel irony.
4:24 from the card in Legends of Runeterra I see her kit needs to be reworked into a new one thats more aggressive based, making her similar to Sona but different.
Like for cc she has to dash into enemies to incentives her allies to follow up or she heals allies more depending on how much damage she dealt to enemies.(Supportive Battlemage fits this idea.)
Let's be honest the biggest issue with the entirety of the Seraphine Deck. Is take it's all in one region. If some of the cards were spread out in the regions it would be much better, but for P&Z to be card generator, face pinger, card discounter, card copier, spell copier, atk buffer, spell mana generator and giving it access to other regions cards with it's own region's cards is just way, WAYYYYY to self-suffcient to even be considered fair. Like piltover might as well be locked out from being played with other regions, cause it will still see play and win games as it is currently.
Thank you so much for saying what needed to be said! Totally agree, and you are spot on with this assessment. Keep up the great videos man.
this video is amazing, your editing skills keep getting better and better!
You think putting a "Can only trigger effect X times every turn" or "X amount of cards" would fix it?
I don't think its a big deal but when you mentioned tetris has random piece generation, that is technically not true. While Tetris (Nes) and before had fully randomized piece generation, Every modern Tetris has a guarantee of getting every single tetris piece within a group of 7.
Which honestly helps defend your case of rng being bs when it is truly unlimited.
I think that most mana cheating should be limited to "to a minimum of 1", and some very specific effects could reduce some cards to 0. I hated playing against Seraphine decks because, as you mentioned, there is no beating "I casted 15 mana worth of spells and paid 3 for it".
EDIT: Fanclub president is just atrocious, imo. The "reduce a 5 cost spell to 2" was downright disgusting.
back then the deck was so easy to play for everyone, nowadays I feel you really need to be good at decision-making for having the best win rate with seraphine, and yeah is so frustrating if you have the exodia combo in hand. but today is harder to get.
I quit LoR because of Sera and won't come back until she and her entire package rotates.
Thanks for great video
3:01 L BLOCK!!!
what a cruel god
How about double down on the RNG?
The bar can have the same text, but add this: "All of your spells and skills now have random targets" cuz it's a bar goddamnit
Legends of runeterra literally printed an mtg storm deck and all the pieces and said “yeah it’s fine , we like how the champion looks”
yeah, this basically sums up everything I don't like about LoR atm (I still play a lot and I know it was worse before the nerfs, thank god these decks are rare atm)
I'ts not jsut random discounted cards you can't play around, it's not just that when these decks go for the kill there is usually absolutely nothing you can do about it, it's that the kills often take a very long time to sort themselves out, and it's madiningly boring.
Top tier editing, keep it up!
Is this the fucking RAYMAN music i hear in the second part
Phenomenal job, great taste
I heckin love Rayman, I hope they release another game like origins or legends
hope riot see this
Can we also talk about the boring and bullchip chimes
YOU PLAYED MKWII PROFESSIONALLY?????? Holy shit I'm not alone
as a "new" LoR player its kinda sad trying to have fun playing when everyone plays the same 3-4 regions combinations that can end the game in 5 turns every time just by existing
Ezreal becoming overpowered and running the meta because new stuff got added and he abuses it better than everyone is just very in-character for him considering his League self
I love rng, getting destroyed by 0 cost card while they are completely spent on mana is fun
As a former hardcore LoR fan, the reason for why I quit was that the game just turned into "wait for the balance patches so you can play the game again" and frankly i simply think that the games balance is kindoff terrible and has been for a long time.
They just keep releasing compleatly broken cards that just temporarily take over the entire game and rarely bother trying to fix some of the older champions flaws. And even when they try fixing the old champions flaws they just compleatly miss the mark most of the time, just look at how many new support cards they gave Vladimir, instead of fixing his already existing ones, if you were to run a Vladimir deck with all of his support cards at once you'd be looking at a 50+ card deck.
Their nerfing philosophy also seems terrible nowdays, first of all they usually take way too long to nerf the new oppressive cards they add but when they finally get around to do it, they usually nerf the card into a compleatly unusable state. For example, back when Lissandra Matreon was a thing and she was able to cheat out The Watcher way too early, all they had to do was change Matreon so it only would be able to pull 10 mana cost cards, instead they nerfed Lissandras level up and made The Watcher COMPLEATLY useless.
I just want the devs to stop releasing new cards at this point and take some sereos time, to look over all the champions in the game and do a MASSIVE rework, with the goal of fixing all of their past mistakes.
I think with bar nerf it can open the door for new types of Sera decks, even more when Ez gets kicked out
It honestly breaks my heart where the game is today. I can't stand RNG in a competitive setting. I really only play Path of Legends. The randomness is just too common.
How do I feel about Seraphine ruining something or someone I enjoy personally?
*[audible tense silence]*
...........
*[continues glaring at everyone]*
...................
Man I loved LoR as a card game when it came out since it didn't have RNG back then, and it didn't have that Hearthstone fiasco RNG gameplay, but when Seraphine came out, I just stopped playing the game entirely. I was very disappointed when full RNG was implemented into some cards. I was fine with the "invoke" mechanic since it was controlled, and had a specific set of cards that can only be generated via "invoke." I'm just sad that I won't be playing this game anymore, but with that said I'll still be keeping up with LoR for the reveals and such, and also see where Riot takes the game.
17:08 yugioh players "hey if heard that somewhere before"
now I carving your Mario kart video
I stopped playing Runeterra because of the Seraphine meta, straight afther the Kai'Sa meta. RNG isn't so much the issue standalone, it was the fact that you cannot safely predict what the opponent might or might not have, because they could still play random cards from all over the game, empty their hand, for 0 mana...
I wanna suggest a good solution. Make certain discounts (0 mana cards are fine as long as the yare balanced being around 0 mana) only grant up to a maxiumum of 1 mana, maining if you draw a 2 cost card with Drum solo's flow, it would go down to 1 mana instead of 0.
Why i suggest this? Im taking a example from another card game i fell in love with lately, Marvel SNAP. Whilst it is controversial because it completly reïnvents the card battler genre (Or how TF you wanna call it) But has some verry carefull and well tought out mechanics. Almost all discounts (Except for a single location that is not deck-dependant, so that is just pure RNg if you will see it or not) have a MAXIUM of reducing cards to 1 cost, meaning you cannot physically cheat out cards for free if you maindeck said cost reductions.
BTW Snnuy, we should talk about marvel SNAP sometimes, i think i have quite a bit of ideas that are great examples of doing cards right AND wrong. Take this saying i have "he whom doesn't learn from their mistakes, doesn't progress. He whom learns from their mistakes, progresses. But he whom, lerns from his mistakes, but also others mistakes, evolves."
I've played runeterra since the beginning like many players and to be honest I played all through this seraphine meta while I did play a decent amount of seraphine I also played other decks (lurk, monoshurima, deep, dragons, and more) and had fun tbh. To me when I saw throughout this time people saying seraphine is the worst thing to happen to runeterra I just never understood why people hated it so much even now I dont really understand. To me losing to the same curve every game (like kaisa or when pantheon was strong) is the most frustrating thing ever. Like having my opponent play the same 2 or 3 1 drops and then the same 2 or 3 2 drops and then the same 3 into 4 into 5 drops is like.... Why am I playing the same game 20 times in a row. Azir Irelia or leesin are also 100x more frustrating for me to play against.
I like the editing, it's very entertaining to watch. However, there should be a massive ratio on the "rng" part of this thing. I remember how some questionable person (Swim?) was saying that "nerfing loping concho and mayor wont fix the BC" but it did fix it. Now, there are two singular cards in the game that truly cause problems - Ezreal and Bar. Ezreal is a wincon to decks that dont have a wincon and bar is basically 6 mana glorious evolution. So, much like when I said that nerfing conch loping and mayor will fix BC, I am saying that nerfing/reworking/rotating (Doesn't fucking matter, this champion can be removed entirely and not a single other card in the game will see any change in play) ezreal and nerfing bar will fix the issue.
Maybe bar should create barkeep in hand, maybe it should, like, lower the cost by 2, but only of CREATED cards? That would be pretty interesting actually, because there are several decks that would use such interaction - and it would allow cards like Electrorig or Counterfeit to truly be played.
Right now, Runeterra has like 20-30 very playable archetypes, and even B-tier decks like Dragons or Scargrounds absolutely dumpster most off-meta decks that can't even be called "decks" because not enough people play them. I am talking slotbot army, Zevi Lee Sin, Legion Parauders, Messanger swarm. Riot should print tools for fun and new decks, and not already existing ones. I swear, if I see one more fucking shroom support card I am going to lose my shit. This archetype gets more support than all the others combined!
Thank you, for another amazing video
I think Viktor bar avatar is not degenerate. Great fucking video except for that cameo
I dropped LoR a week or two into Seraphine's release. The game has progressively worsened and all of my joy vanished. Even during the BC meta it was my most played game. I would strive for masters every season and now I can't even be bothered. I really miss it, but I can't deal with the levels of variance that takes control away from me as a player.
Idk man... 4 mana Lee Sin still haunts me after all these years.
Honestly, for me it's not that much about the powercreep, as the fact that this kind of archetypes are slowly making the Region system pointless. Specially now with more Runeterra champions with Origins that allow them to pick and choose cards from basically regions.
It's like the developers suddenly regreted building the Region system, and were finding ways to evade it.
Hey, love your content! its really enjoyable and always entertains me
Funny how ezreal in both games force the developers to consider "can ezreal abuse this?" Like runeglaive and old on hit effects, that can't be too goo because ezreals Q just use it better.
RNG keep some games interesting in ways that are only possible in an online game, but it isn't fun when the possibilities are out of the realm of acceptable
Can someone tell me the title of the outro song? It's familiar, but I can't think of a name.
I like RNG, and I like discounts, I just hate when they're able to be put together. If they exist in the same game at the same time, they need to be unplayable in combination. Potentially literally, if changed Riot bar to be (for example) "New spells that started the game in your library cost 2 less" (increasing the discount because it no longer cheats created stuff), and have Barkeep draw new spells instead of create them, I'd really like it as an archetype.
I don't want barkeep changed. it predated bar as a fun memey strategy.