One thing i love to point out with the stripling warriors is that none of them perished but it did not say anything about them not being injured. The war and fight is still just that... a war. Cuts, scars, and wounds will be present but will heal through the atonement of Christ. In the battle we are waging and the many good points you made about these battles to fortify ourselves it is also imperative to know we will get injured but shall not perish when we follow Christ and spiritually connect ourselves to Him.
I love the examples of going off of principles concerning commandments. Years ago when my husband and I had built our first home we had an interesting experience. Our sod was delivered late on Saturday instead of in the morning. We were outside frantically trying to get it laid before sundown but we did not succeed. The next day at church the bishopric and our neighbors asked us if we were able to get it finished. We told them we did not and we were worried that the sod was going to dry out. My husband and I both had to work Monday morning and felt that we needed to finish the sod after church even though we felt bad about doing that. We didn’t ask for any help but the bishopric and our neighbors told us they would love to help us if it weren’t Sunday because they didn’t want to break the Sabbath. I remember how bad we felt that we were going to be breaking the Sabbath and understood that they didn’t want to break that commandment, and we respected that. As we headed outside and began the grueling work of laying sod in the hot sun (just the two of us), our neighbor to the south who was not a Latter-day Saint or a part of any church showed up with a shovel and wheelbarrow and began helping us. He didn’t ask if we needed help, he just began helping. I’ll never forget how that made us feel. We felt seen and loved by someone who by keeping the commandment, “love thy neighbor as thyself”, was indeed keeping the Sabbath day holy. That was profound for me. Years later after building a second home, we saw this play out again in reverse. Our bishop noticed his neighbor (not active members) trying to frantically lay sod on Sunday before sundown. He went over with shovels and a wheelbarrow and got to work until they were finished. I couldn’t think of a more holy way to honor the Sabbath than to help a neighbor in need. ❤️
When you do it the Lord’s way, you get the Lord’s help. I know this is True. When I have lived my the Lord’s way I have,indeed, received the Lord’s help.Again and again this has been the norm. ❤ The Lord Always comes through, but we Must Do things The Lord’s Way. He Comes Through His Way and with His Timing. I testify that these things are true. 😊
You said "Peter took his eyes off the Savior and focused on the storm. And that's what we do. Faith is the art of holding on in that critical moment." Faith is holding on at all times.
Mike and Bryce! I recently uncovered some cool insights from my personal study. You’re my guys so I was super excited to run it by you two. Sorry it’s long so don’t read if you’re busy haha. So one of my favorite scripture individuals is Gideon. He pops up over and over doing incredible things without all the praise and glory. It occurred to me to learn the meaning of his name. I found “Gideon” (Hebrew: גדעון) means “one who cuts down,” "feller," "hewer," “cutter off,” or even "cut off hand.” This made a lot of sense because we are first introduced to Gideon attempting to “cut down” King Noah and finally as he is “cut down” by Nehor. So I went back to study every reference of Gideon in the BoM. I was absolutely shocked at what I found. A synonym of to “cut down” or “hew down” is to “slay” or “slay with the sword.” This word or phrase is repeated over and over and over in association with Gideon and his narrative. I think we are seeing a Hebraic wordplay on his name. The evidence is stark. Every time his name is used the word “slay” is also used in some form in the exact same verse or the previous/subsequent verse. In all these cases you could replace “slay” with “cut down.” First Gideon is introduced “he drew his sword, and swore in his wrath that he would slay (cut down) the king” (Mosiah 19:4), but the Laminites attack “and began to slay them (cut them down)” (Mosiah 19:10). There are more references to Gideon as the Lamanites “slay” woman and children and later when the people “slay” King Noah. Gideon appears again in chapter 20 in order to prevent the Lamanites from “slaying” the people because of the wicked priests’ kidnappings. In Mosiah 22 Gideon proposes a plan to the king to “2 deliver themselves out of bondage (cutting down) by the sword.” In Alma 1 Gideon contends with Nehor who “9 drew his sword and began to smite him (cut him)… therefore Gideon was slain (cut down) by the sword.” But that’s not it. Alma 2 “1 Amlici… he being after the order of the man that slew (cut down) Gideon by the sword” gathers an army and the “18 Nephites… slew (cut down) the Amlicites with great slaughter, that they began to flee before them.” We read the named that area “20 the valley of Gideon, the valley being called after that Gideon who was slain (cut down) by the hand of Nehor with the sword.” Later, each time this land is mentioned “slaying “ is also mentioned Alma 6 “7 Alma… went over upon the east of the river Sidon, into the valley of Gideon, there having been a city built, which was called the city of Gideon, which was in the valley that was called Gideon, being called after the man who was slain (cut down) by the hand of Nehor with the sword.” Finally, in Helaman 13, besides Zarahemla, the city Gideon is the only city mentioned which Christ condemned because they “slew” the prophets. This just scratches the surface. I counted the amount of times “slay” is used in its various forms in Gideon’s chapters Mosiah 19 = 9, 20 = 5, Alma 1 = 3, 2 = 16 and slay or similar words are used in Mosiah 22, Alma 6, Helaman 13. Also I think there is interpretation precedent; it seems that the Hebrew word “qatal” can mean both “to slay” and “to cut.”
@@talkingscripture thank you! Thanks for taking the time to read it! Such a long comment 😂. It’s honestly getting more and more mind blowing and expansive than I could have imagined as I continue to research. Taylor Halverson actually connected me with the great Matt Bowen lol. So I’m working on a research paper on it now. Still a work in progress, but I’d be more than happy to share it with you if you wanted?
I was thinking about the comment's Mike made around the 58 min mark about the distinctions between Nephites and Lamanites. Currently living with a Jr high transitioning to highschooler in the home I had this image of Captain Moroni walking through the soldiers asking them: "Bruh who’s poggers to go rescue some of our prisoners from those Lamanite chads, make them go big yikes? I don’t mean to flex, but we totally have W Riz right now! Skibidi Toilet!” Most of the soldiers looking on with utter confusion, maybe wondering if Moroni is having a stroke or something and then this one guy goes: "Yeah that would be gas, straight fire!" Moroni turns to him and goes: “Follow me son I have a mission for you!”
We don't like to teach that Moroni wrote the letter to Pahoran, and he was wrong! He was a great, inspired leader, but he was wrong. This highlights the simple principle that we are led by men who can make mistakes because they are mortal men. We must have the Holy Ghost to guide us and not rely on the arm of flesh (2 Nephi 4:34; 28:31).
Great point. Balancing definitely requires the guidance of the Holy Ghost. RE: the discussion around 55 min mark, I wonder if folks here can envision a scenario where the Lord would justify one in paying tithing in some other way than through the church?
Captain Moroni Reproved the Governing Leaders with Sharpness Mormon would be disappointed with the prevalent misinterpretation of the written exchange between Chief Captain Moroni and Chief Governor Pahoran (Alma 59-61). Some have mistakenly characterized Captain Moroni as a false (or unjust) accuser. Since false accusation or bearing false witness was a serious offense under the Law of Moses (Exodus 20:16; Deuteronomy 19:17-19), Mormon undoubtedly did not intend to besmirch Captain Moroni. In fact, Mormon said all men should aspire to be like Captain Moroni (Alma 48:17), who he described as “a man of perfect understanding … who was firm in the faith of Christ” (Alma 48:11-13). Moreover, Captain Moroni’s “heart did glory … in doing good, in preserving his people, yea, in keeping the commandments of God, yea, and resisting iniquity” (Alma 48:16). Mormon clearly characterized Captain Moroni as an advocate (like Jehovah) rather an accuser (like Lucifer). Captain Moroni was “a man whose soul did joy in the liberty and the freedom of his country…; a man who did labor exceedingly for the welfare and safety of his people…. [A]nd he had sworn with an oath to defend his people, his rights, and his country, and his religion, even to the loss of his blood” (Alma 48:11-13). With this view of Captain Moroni as a righteous advocate, we need to review the scriptural record to consider whether he was “moved upon by the Holy Ghost” to reprove the Nephite government with sharpness (Doctrine & Covenants 121:43). In his “epistle to Pahoran … and also to all those who have been chosen by this people to govern and manage the affairs of this war” (Alma 60:1), Captain Moroni wrote: “Behold, the Lord saith unto me: If those whom ye have appointed your governors do not repent of their sins and iniquities, ye shall go up to battle against them” (Alma 60:33). Notice that the Lord revealed unto Captain Moroni that collectively the governors needed to “repent of their sins and iniquities” (Alma 60:33). What were their sins and iniquities? Which laws were they transgressing? About five years earlier-shortly after Pahoran became the chief judge and governor-the Nephite people granted Captain Moroni the power to compel dissenters to defend their country or be put to death (Alma 51:15-16). “And thus it became expedient that this law should be strictly observed for the safety of their country” (Alma 62:10). So, Captain Moroni used his army to slay 4,000 dissenters (king-men) who refused to yield to the standard of liberty (Alma 51:17-19). When king-men once again rebelled against the government, Pahoran nevertheless “was somewhat worried concerning what we should do, whether it should be just in us to go against our brethren” (Alma 61:19). Pahoran questioned the justness of the law and apparently Captain Moroni’s earlier enforcement of the law. Not only was Pahoran indecisive, but he also prevented enforcement of the law by withholding from military leaders (including Captain Moroni) information about the ongoing rebellion (Alma58:9, 34). Moreover, he apparently did not seek revelation and relied upon his own wisdom. Captain Moroni’s sharp rebuke apparently jarred Pahoran into recognizing his shortcomings. Pahoran’s meek reply demonstrates a repentant attitude. Pahoran said though he felt censured (not accused) by Captain Moroni, he rejoiced in the greatness of Captain Moroni’s heart (Alma 61:9). Pahoran also acknowledged the ineffectiveness of resisting rebellions and dissensions with words (Alma 61:4,10-14), which was apparently his initial inclination. The idleness of Pahoran and the other governors in enforcing the law resulted in great neglect of the Nephite armies (Alma 60:14,22). Though the king-men rebelled and initially caused disruption, the slothfulness of the governing leaders in executing the rebels exacerbated the situation. Delaying the slaying of the rebels resulted in thousands of famished Nephite warriors being slaughtered instead (Alma 60:8-10). Thus, Captain Moroni did not overstate the government’s complicity in the great neglect of the Nephite armies. He is a great example of challenging government incompetence and of championing justice and freedom. He was undoubtedly divinely inspired to reprove the Nephite government with sharpness.
Wonderful podcast as always
One thing i love to point out with the stripling warriors is that none of them perished but it did not say anything about them not being injured. The war and fight is still just that... a war. Cuts, scars, and wounds will be present but will heal through the atonement of Christ. In the battle we are waging and the many good points you made about these battles to fortify ourselves it is also imperative to know we will get injured but shall not perish when we follow Christ and spiritually connect ourselves to Him.
I believe in one Skirmish they were completely unwounded. In a separate Skirmish they were wounded, but none died in either skirmish
I love the examples of going off of principles concerning commandments. Years ago when my husband and I had built our first home we had an interesting experience. Our sod was delivered late on Saturday instead of in the morning. We were outside frantically trying to get it laid before sundown but we did not succeed. The next day at church the bishopric and our neighbors asked us if we were able to get it finished. We told them we did not and we were worried that the sod was going to dry out. My husband and I both had to work Monday morning and felt that we needed to finish the sod after church even though we felt bad about doing that. We didn’t ask for any help but the bishopric and our neighbors told us they would love to help us if it weren’t Sunday because they didn’t want to break the Sabbath. I remember how bad we felt that we were going to be breaking the Sabbath and understood that they didn’t want to break that commandment, and we respected that.
As we headed outside and began the grueling work of laying sod in the hot sun (just the two of us), our neighbor to the south who was not a Latter-day Saint or a part of any church showed up with a shovel and wheelbarrow and began helping us. He didn’t ask if we needed help, he just began helping. I’ll never forget how that made us feel. We felt seen and loved by someone who by keeping the commandment, “love thy neighbor as thyself”, was indeed keeping the Sabbath day holy. That was profound for me.
Years later after building a second home, we saw this play out again in reverse. Our bishop noticed his neighbor (not active members) trying to frantically lay sod on Sunday before sundown. He went over with shovels and a wheelbarrow and got to work until they were finished. I couldn’t think of a more holy way to honor the Sabbath than to help a neighbor in need. ❤️
When you do it the Lord’s way, you get the Lord’s help. I know this is True. When I have lived my the Lord’s way I have,indeed, received the Lord’s help.Again and again this has been the norm. ❤ The Lord Always comes through, but we Must Do things The Lord’s Way. He Comes Through His Way and with His Timing. I testify that these things are true. 😊
Thank you guys talking scriptures is awesome ✌️🖖
You said "Peter took his eyes off the Savior and focused on the storm. And that's what we do. Faith is the art of holding on in that critical moment."
Faith is holding on at all times.
Thank you 🙂
Thank you again for a wonderful podcast
Mike and Bryce! I recently uncovered some cool insights from my personal study. You’re my guys so I was super excited to run it by you two. Sorry it’s long so don’t read if you’re busy haha.
So one of my favorite scripture individuals is Gideon. He pops up over and over doing incredible things without all the praise and glory. It occurred to me to learn the meaning of his name.
I found “Gideon” (Hebrew: גדעון) means “one who cuts down,” "feller," "hewer," “cutter off,” or even "cut off hand.” This made a lot of sense because we are first introduced to Gideon attempting to “cut down” King Noah and finally as he is “cut down” by Nehor.
So I went back to study every reference of Gideon in the BoM. I was absolutely shocked at what I found. A synonym of to “cut down” or “hew down” is to “slay” or “slay with the sword.” This word or phrase is repeated over and over and over in association with Gideon and his narrative. I think we are seeing a Hebraic wordplay on his name. The evidence is stark.
Every time his name is used the word “slay” is also used in some form in the exact same verse or the previous/subsequent verse. In all these cases you could replace “slay” with “cut down.”
First Gideon is introduced “he drew his sword, and swore in his wrath that he would slay (cut down) the king” (Mosiah 19:4), but the Laminites attack “and began to slay them (cut them down)” (Mosiah 19:10).
There are more references to Gideon as the Lamanites “slay” woman and children and later when the people “slay” King Noah.
Gideon appears again in chapter 20 in order to prevent the Lamanites from “slaying” the people because of the wicked priests’ kidnappings.
In Mosiah 22 Gideon proposes a plan to the king to “2 deliver themselves out of bondage (cutting down) by the sword.”
In Alma 1 Gideon contends with Nehor who “9 drew his sword and began to smite him (cut him)… therefore Gideon was slain (cut down) by the sword.”
But that’s not it. Alma 2 “1 Amlici… he being after the order of the man that slew (cut down) Gideon by the sword” gathers an army and the “18 Nephites… slew (cut down) the Amlicites with great slaughter, that they began to flee before them.”
We read the named that area
“20 the valley of Gideon, the valley being called after that Gideon who was slain (cut down) by the hand of Nehor with the sword.”
Later, each time this land is mentioned “slaying “ is also mentioned Alma 6 “7 Alma… went over upon the east of the river Sidon, into the valley of Gideon, there having been a city built, which was called the city of Gideon, which was in the valley that was called Gideon, being called after the man who was slain (cut down) by the hand of Nehor with the sword.”
Finally, in Helaman 13, besides Zarahemla, the city Gideon is the only city mentioned which Christ condemned because they “slew” the prophets.
This just scratches the surface. I counted the amount of times “slay” is used in its various forms in Gideon’s chapters Mosiah 19 = 9, 20 = 5, Alma 1 = 3, 2 = 16 and slay or similar words are used in Mosiah 22, Alma 6, Helaman 13.
Also I think there is interpretation precedent; it seems that the Hebrew word “qatal” can mean both “to slay” and “to cut.”
Nice catch! Gideon is a great name to see in this context. Thanks for sharing!
The story of Gideon is another testimony of how powerful this little book is. Christ told Peter those who draw the sword die by the sword.
This is incredible, Dino! Thank you. I love it. I’m sad I didn’t see it until now.
@@talkingscripture thank you! Thanks for taking the time to read it! Such a long comment 😂. It’s honestly getting more and more mind blowing and expansive than I could have imagined as I continue to research.
Taylor Halverson actually connected me with the great Matt Bowen lol. So I’m working on a research paper on it now. Still a work in progress, but I’d be more than happy to share it with you if you wanted?
@@richardbarrow4620 yes facts!!! Evil for evil good for good
Great lesson!! Thank you!! I just wish we could know Moroni's family.❤❤❤❤
Pahoran's response was probably not his first response.
I was thinking about the comment's Mike made around the 58 min mark about the distinctions between Nephites and Lamanites. Currently living with a Jr high transitioning to highschooler in the home I had this image of Captain Moroni walking through the soldiers asking them:
"Bruh who’s poggers to go rescue some of our prisoners from those Lamanite chads, make them go big yikes? I don’t mean to flex, but we totally have W Riz right now! Skibidi Toilet!”
Most of the soldiers looking on with utter confusion, maybe wondering if Moroni is having a stroke or something and then this one guy goes:
"Yeah that would be gas, straight fire!"
Moroni turns to him and goes:
“Follow me son I have a mission for you!”
Wish my missionary grandson could hear this amazing podcast! Is there a way ?
Yes. He can find us on Facebook.
@@talkingscripture
They aren’t allowed to listen to anything online 🤷🏼♀️
I’ll mention to him! You guys are the BEST missionaries “pumper upper” that I know 😉
Most can access Facebook. That’s how they contact people.
@@talkingscripture can they listen to it?
We don't like to teach that Moroni wrote the letter to Pahoran, and he was wrong! He was a great, inspired leader, but he was wrong. This highlights the simple principle that we are led by men who can make mistakes because they are mortal men. We must have the Holy Ghost to guide us and not rely on the arm of flesh (2 Nephi 4:34; 28:31).
Great point. Balancing definitely requires the guidance of the Holy Ghost.
RE: the discussion around 55 min mark, I wonder if folks here can envision a scenario where the Lord would justify one in paying tithing in some other way than through the church?
Captain Moroni Reproved the Governing Leaders with Sharpness
Mormon would be disappointed with the prevalent misinterpretation of the written exchange between Chief Captain Moroni and Chief Governor Pahoran (Alma 59-61). Some have mistakenly characterized Captain Moroni as a false (or unjust) accuser. Since false accusation or bearing false witness was a serious offense under the Law of Moses (Exodus 20:16; Deuteronomy 19:17-19), Mormon undoubtedly did not intend to besmirch Captain Moroni.
In fact, Mormon said all men should aspire to be like Captain Moroni (Alma 48:17), who he described as “a man of perfect understanding … who was firm in the faith of Christ” (Alma 48:11-13). Moreover, Captain Moroni’s “heart did glory … in doing good, in preserving his people, yea, in keeping the commandments of God, yea, and resisting iniquity” (Alma 48:16).
Mormon clearly characterized Captain Moroni as an advocate (like Jehovah) rather an accuser (like Lucifer). Captain Moroni was “a man whose soul did joy in the liberty and the freedom of his country…; a man who did labor exceedingly for the welfare and safety of his people…. [A]nd he had sworn with an oath to defend his people, his rights, and his country, and his religion, even to the loss of his blood” (Alma 48:11-13).
With this view of Captain Moroni as a righteous advocate, we need to review the scriptural record to consider whether he was “moved upon by the Holy Ghost” to reprove the Nephite government with sharpness (Doctrine & Covenants 121:43). In his “epistle to Pahoran … and also to all those who have been chosen by this people to govern and manage the affairs of this war” (Alma 60:1), Captain Moroni wrote: “Behold, the Lord saith unto me: If those whom ye have appointed your governors do not repent of their sins and iniquities, ye shall go up to battle against them” (Alma 60:33).
Notice that the Lord revealed unto Captain Moroni that collectively the governors needed to “repent of their sins and iniquities” (Alma 60:33). What were their sins and iniquities? Which laws were they transgressing?
About five years earlier-shortly after Pahoran became the chief judge and governor-the Nephite people granted Captain Moroni the power to compel dissenters to defend their country or be put to death (Alma 51:15-16). “And thus it became expedient that this law should be strictly observed for the safety of their country” (Alma 62:10). So, Captain Moroni used his army to slay 4,000 dissenters (king-men) who refused to yield to the standard of liberty (Alma 51:17-19).
When king-men once again rebelled against the government, Pahoran nevertheless “was somewhat worried concerning what we should do, whether it should be just in us to go against our brethren” (Alma 61:19). Pahoran questioned the justness of the law and apparently Captain Moroni’s earlier enforcement of the law. Not only was Pahoran indecisive, but he also prevented enforcement of the law by withholding from military leaders (including Captain Moroni) information about the ongoing rebellion (Alma58:9, 34). Moreover, he apparently did not seek revelation and relied upon his own wisdom.
Captain Moroni’s sharp rebuke apparently jarred Pahoran into recognizing his shortcomings. Pahoran’s meek reply demonstrates a repentant attitude. Pahoran said though he felt censured (not accused) by Captain Moroni, he rejoiced in the greatness of Captain Moroni’s heart (Alma 61:9). Pahoran also acknowledged the ineffectiveness of resisting rebellions and dissensions with words (Alma 61:4,10-14), which was apparently his initial inclination.
The idleness of Pahoran and the other governors in enforcing the law resulted in great neglect of the Nephite armies (Alma 60:14,22). Though the king-men rebelled and initially caused disruption, the slothfulness of the governing leaders in executing the rebels exacerbated the situation. Delaying the slaying of the rebels resulted in thousands of famished Nephite warriors being slaughtered instead (Alma 60:8-10).
Thus, Captain Moroni did not overstate the government’s complicity in the great neglect of the Nephite armies. He is a great example of challenging government incompetence and of championing justice and freedom. He was undoubtedly divinely inspired to reprove the Nephite government with sharpness.