Holy shit David Roche is a mastermind of running, he might be the greatest current mind in endurance running. What a great conversation, I love how much of an open book he is.
Fantastic discussion. First, huge congrats to David (and Megan for crushing crewing). Second, the talk around fueling and cooling strategies was amazing. Thank you!
YYYYYYEEEEESSSSSSSsssssssssss! So glad to see this - David killed it on Saturday! It was a joy to watch him fly down Hope Pass like a gazelle on a speedball, being so kind and interactive with everyone who spoke to him or encouraged him. You could tell he was up to something special - couldn't happen to a better person. Congrats, David! I've recovered well after Leadville, and Brett/Finn - the X3 is pretty darn magic (used it for the first 100k until Twin Lakes inbound) ! It's a game-changer... but there are pores in the midsole, so a dry course is the best scenario for the X3.
So jealous you got to witness it in person! Agreed, this result was well deserved for David and so awesome to see him absolutely knock his 100 mile debut out of the stratosphere!
Great idea to have David on! Seeing how gear is used by other athletes during races, in general, seems like a great addition to the channel. Especially nice with an elite who doesn't have a shoe sponsor, which is pretty rare.
Yes, super rare and unique opportunity for sure to have someone race at such a high level without a shoe sponsor. I love that he was open about not really even wanting to pursue a sponsorship anymore because he wants to be able to try everything out. Such a great chat and thanks for watching!
After 5 years of running...inspired by yall of course of course. I bought my first pair of Hoka's. Clifton 9. This is like some video game stuff. I'm running wild. Just like David! Well...only in dreams. Congrats on Leadville! Congrats on the congratulations for the channel Conversational Pace!
Was stoked when I saw the built in gator. Have an old pair of salomans with one and are go to winter mountain runners for not getting junk and snow in there.
Probably will forever be the most debated piece of that shoe for sure. Curious if it will be a one and done thing or if it will stay on the 4th version
What an epic video (and the podcast): The last 2 minutes, fing lol. Thanks David & CP. My big takeaways: Combine belt pocket shorts with running belt; Try sizing down another 1/2size in the TSU (I'm already 1/2size down).
Thanks guys for your insights into the Agravic Speed Ultra. I ran the Zermatt Ultraks in Switzerland this weekend and wasn't sure if I should give the shoe a try. So glad I did! What a great shoe and especially the fact that it saves the legs on downhills and so good on runable terrain. Would have never been able to run such a great time without the shoe! Before I was a great fan of the Speedgoat. But from version 5 on tried to find a suitable successor. 🙌🙌
What a great conversation! David is so humble but he is a beast and he so deserved this win and record for all the work and intelligence that he put into preparing for this race and all the love that he spreads every day. A great example for all of us even if we cannot reach his levels of performance. And great questions from Brett, thank you so much for having David on!
This was awesome. Thanks for sharing so much. Any idea what Janji shorts he was using? Mid Short Ultra? Science in Sport - did he just go with the neutral flavor?
I believe it was the 7" multi short 2-in-1, and I'll have to confirm regarding SIS beta fuel flavors. All three of the flavors are super mellow though, which is nice. Thanks for watching!
Regarding the Tecton, I think I remember hearing that Jim changed shoes at least once during WSER (or maybe it was a different Hoka runner), saying there was some sort of issue. Maybe it was the waterclog.
@@MrTCFIRE maybe so, but my guess he would only change shoes if the ones he was using were causing some sort of issue: changing shoes takes time, and this was no testing run, it was WSER, you don’t put on new shoes just for the fun of it.
Well actually, talking to Jim before the race, he was strategically going to put a different shoe on at Michigan bluff, which he did. Figured the time it took to change the shoes would be made up with the efficiency gains of this shoe. That plan was going to be to take that shoe all the way to the finish, but something (not sure what) wasn't working right, and he switched back into the Tecton X 2.5 at Mile 80 and wore those to the finish. The WSER course is much more mellow terrain after Mile 60ish, so one could switch into a much lighter and faster shoe around then
Roche is not the first pushing those carb numbers. Tom Evans has been very open w/ his fueling especially during his win at Western States last year. He averaged 120g/hr and said in the high country (cooler weather/snow) he was consuming closer to 150-160g/hr for first 2-3hrs of the race.
In my personal experience peba gets soggy when very wet, I’ve consistently noticed it with ZoomX and Powerrun PB… It’s an interesting consideration for trail shoes, especially with river crossings and probably also with bad weather or very wet grass. I’ll stick with my Speed Ultra’s for now 😂 Lightstrike pro seems to be a brilliant superfoam for the trails, also considering stability. As for the carbs per hour: Tom Evans explains in his new Ultra Sound podcast that he pushes for 120 grams per hour (all Maurten) as well. I’m curious what the other high performing trail athletes do!
When I was thinking about it, I don't think I had ever gotten any of my road super shoes absolutely soaked before. Definitely something these companies need to be considering! Whatever Adidas is doing with the Lightstrike Pro in the Speed Ultra, they're doing something right! Tom is definitely always at the cutting edge of the sport, and I love how public he is with everything that he's doing
@@ConversationalPace yes, Adidas certainly has something there! Unlike most superfoams Lightstrike pro isn’t Peba, but a TPEE. It’s also much more durable. I don’t have many Adidas shoes, but before the Speed and Speed Ultra I already ‘stumbled upon ‘ the Takumi Sen 8, which turned out to be the best fast interval training shoe I ever had. Very stable, very responsive, not nearly as squishy and wobbly as most peba based super shoes and unlike those, the foams just seems to be getting better and better with the miles. I never thought about it before, but now it makes total sense to made that lightstrike pro is superior on the trails!
I'd be so curious if any of these brands have done any testing in these foams beyond 26.2 miles. I feel like Litestrike pro would perform the best and rebound the most energy after say, a 50 mile run.
@@ConversationalPace that is a very good point indeed! How well do the foam properties hold up during a long run, without it having the time to ‘recover’ like we typically give it in between runs. There are probably differences there! I can’t imagine that manufacturers don’t look into this (or test it), but I haven’t seen any data on this yet…
@@quirckybaldguy I haven't heard of any such tests beyond the marathon distance. Definitely lots of testing is being done regarding getting foams to mile 20 as in tact as possible!
just did the X3 on Leadville 100 on Sat-Sun and it was fine for moisture (I think) but the rear heel counter bumpers make it a challenge for fit. If the fit is perfect, and you have a substantial sock, should be great. If you have some slippage or the sock isn't protective or cushioned, like I experienced, it can rub the back heel a bit. Give I did 100k in it, with some water crossings and mud, I think a double-sock layer (injinji, and anything) would protect you against the worst of heel rub/wear/ but the SHOE IS WORTH IT. Never thought I'd say that out loud/here. Gaiter works, bouncy, stable enough, great traction, just awesome
haha oh no I legit don't know what it is. Well it's actually in such early stages that I heard it doesn't even have a name yet, so legit mystery shoe 🤣
It wasn't. I've got a Mach X 2 and they're pretty different shape from what Jim was wearing. The Mach X 2 has an eva and peba layer of foam, whereas Jim's shoe was all peba and even higher stack than the Mach X 2
David on gaiters: //"I do not understand shoe companies solving for a problem that does not exist"// Sorry David, you can only say it doesn't exist FOR YOU. The problem actually exists. Here in the Sierra, if I don't wear my Dirty Girls, I just get my shoes FULL of decomposed granite. You can say I shuffle my feet or whatever you wish .... fine ... BUT, gaiters are the answer to MY prayers. I LOVE my Jackal 2 BOAs because they have an excellent built in gaiter.
@@CallMeShasta He was, and so was I (if you read my comment). If an excellent gaiter can be built in (and the Jackal 2 BOA shows it can be done), I'm super grateful to not have to fool with my external gaiter. It's a clear upgrade (for me).
Holy shit David Roche is a mastermind of running, he might be the greatest current mind in endurance running. What a great conversation, I love how much of an open book he is.
When I see a podcast with David Roche, I click the like button and then proceed to watch it. There's always so much to learn from him.
David is an encyclopedia of knowledge and not a gatekeeper of this great information, which I hugely respect and am thankful for!
@@ConversationalPace Absolutely! Thanks for having him on!
Everything I crave in one place: Conversational Pace, David Roche, shoe-doping and food-doping - yes!! Bravo !
🤣🤣 Glad we were able to serve as a place of entertainment! Thanks for watching!
You two are amazing. I love the bromance and thank you to you both for all you do for the sport ! Congratulations on an amazing feat, David!
❤️ ❤️ Thanks for watching!
Fantastic discussion. First, huge congrats to David (and Megan for crushing crewing). Second, the talk around fueling and cooling strategies was amazing. Thank you!
Thanks for watching!
Fuck am I hyped for this conversation. It’s so cute how David talks about you on his pod
🤣 🤣 It was such a great chat!
YYYYYYEEEEESSSSSSSsssssssssss! So glad to see this - David killed it on Saturday! It was a joy to watch him fly down Hope Pass like a gazelle on a speedball, being so kind and interactive with everyone who spoke to him or encouraged him. You could tell he was up to something special - couldn't happen to a better person. Congrats, David! I've recovered well after Leadville, and Brett/Finn - the X3 is pretty darn magic (used it for the first 100k until Twin Lakes inbound) ! It's a game-changer... but there are pores in the midsole, so a dry course is the best scenario for the X3.
So jealous you got to witness it in person! Agreed, this result was well deserved for David and so awesome to see him absolutely knock his 100 mile debut out of the stratosphere!
Great idea to have David on! Seeing how gear is used by other athletes during races, in general, seems like a great addition to the channel. Especially nice with an elite who doesn't have a shoe sponsor, which is pretty rare.
Yes, super rare and unique opportunity for sure to have someone race at such a high level without a shoe sponsor. I love that he was open about not really even wanting to pursue a sponsorship anymore because he wants to be able to try everything out. Such a great chat and thanks for watching!
I anticipate after the Leadville 100 win (and course record) shoe sponsors will be calling him, if they haven't done so already...rightfully so...
Great interview, flip flopped again after watching this for shoe choice for upcoming 55 miler. TX3 > ASU. Need to get those carbs in #pfandh
Thanks for watching!
After 5 years of running...inspired by yall of course of course. I bought my first pair of Hoka's. Clifton 9. This is like some video game stuff. I'm running wild. Just like David! Well...only in dreams. Congrats on Leadville! Congrats on the congratulations for the channel Conversational Pace!
Love it! Thanks for watching!
Was stoked when I saw the built in gator. Have an old pair of salomans with one and are go to winter mountain runners for not getting junk and snow in there.
Yeah I'm definitely a fan of it!
SAYING THIS NOW - PERFORMANCE OF THE YEAR!
Definitely deserves to be said!
Thanks for curating this episode! 2 legends!
Appreciate it! Thanks for watching!
Incredibly informative conversation! You and David have given me a lot of info to chew on for my next race
I learned so much as well! David really is at the very forefront of the science in our sport
Totally agree that the gaiter is because of Jim and was thinking that when listening to David talk about it on SWAP.
Probably will forever be the most debated piece of that shoe for sure. Curious if it will be a one and done thing or if it will stay on the 4th version
What an epic video (and the podcast): The last 2 minutes, fing lol. Thanks David & CP. My big takeaways: Combine belt pocket shorts with running belt; Try sizing down another 1/2size in the TSU (I'm already 1/2size down).
Definitely an epic convo that got more hilarious as it went on 😂. The double belt was such a brain blast!
Honest talk takes you a looooong long way....love the show..thank you..😎
Sure does and thanks for watching!
David 🦖
CONGRATULATIONS 👊
👑 👑
Thanks guys for your insights into the Agravic Speed Ultra. I ran the Zermatt Ultraks in Switzerland this weekend and wasn't sure if I should give the shoe a try. So glad I did! What a great shoe and especially the fact that it saves the legs on downhills and so good on runable terrain. Would have never been able to run such a great time without the shoe! Before I was a great fan of the Speedgoat. But from version 5 on tried to find a suitable successor. 🙌🙌
So pumped it worked out for you! Agreed, best downhill shoe on the market right now
LOVE DAVID❤❤❤❤!!!!
❤️ ❤️
What a great conversation! David is so humble but he is a beast and he so deserved this win and record for all the work and intelligence that he put into preparing for this race and all the love that he spreads every day. A great example for all of us even if we cannot reach his levels of performance. And great questions from Brett, thank you so much for having David on!
Yes, he set such a great example for preparation and execution, all while keeping positivity at the forefront of his race plan. Thanks for watching!
David is awesome 😎
The most awesome!
This was awesome. Thanks for sharing so much. Any idea what Janji shorts he was using? Mid Short Ultra? Science in Sport - did he just go with the neutral flavor?
I believe it was the 7" multi short 2-in-1, and I'll have to confirm regarding SIS beta fuel flavors. All three of the flavors are super mellow though, which is nice. Thanks for watching!
Regarding the Tecton, I think I remember hearing that Jim changed shoes at least once during WSER (or maybe it was a different Hoka runner), saying there was some sort of issue. Maybe it was the waterclog.
Yeah it would be super fascinating to hear a deep dive into the real reasoning behind the shoe changes, although I suspect we never will 😢
Somebody was saying that he jumped into another prototype shoe…
@@MrTCFIRE maybe so, but my guess he would only change shoes if the ones he was using were causing some sort of issue: changing shoes takes time, and this was no testing run, it was WSER, you don’t put on new shoes just for the fun of it.
Well actually, talking to Jim before the race, he was strategically going to put a different shoe on at Michigan bluff, which he did. Figured the time it took to change the shoes would be made up with the efficiency gains of this shoe. That plan was going to be to take that shoe all the way to the finish, but something (not sure what) wasn't working right, and he switched back into the Tecton X 2.5 at Mile 80 and wore those to the finish. The WSER course is much more mellow terrain after Mile 60ish, so one could switch into a much lighter and faster shoe around then
whats the trail in boulder DAVID, need to know!!!
🤣 🤣
Roche is not the first pushing those carb numbers. Tom Evans has been very open w/ his fueling especially during his win at Western States last year. He averaged 120g/hr and said in the high country (cooler weather/snow) he was consuming closer to 150-160g/hr for first 2-3hrs of the race.
it's a very small cohort for sure. Sounds like they should probably race and have a carb off!
What janji belt does David use? The one Infound on janji doesnt seem very stable
It's built into the shorts.... The actual belt he was using is by Naked
shorts with a waist belt and a naked belt was the ultimate double stack I was not expecting 😆
It's the best!!! I always rock the Patagonia shorts with the 5 pockets on waist band in addition to an ultimate direction belt
I’ve had the Tecton’s on a couple techie Boulder runs and they seem to be running a bit small…sizing up a half size…
Are they running small to you compared to the previous Tecton?
Do super shoes have the durability to be worn for every workout?
In our testing, it seems like most trail super shoes have lasted as long as a typical trainer
In my personal experience peba gets soggy when very wet, I’ve consistently noticed it with ZoomX and Powerrun PB… It’s an interesting consideration for trail shoes, especially with river crossings and probably also with bad weather or very wet grass. I’ll stick with my Speed Ultra’s for now 😂 Lightstrike pro seems to be a brilliant superfoam for the trails, also considering stability.
As for the carbs per hour: Tom Evans explains in his new Ultra Sound podcast that he pushes for 120 grams per hour (all Maurten) as well. I’m curious what the other high performing trail athletes do!
When I was thinking about it, I don't think I had ever gotten any of my road super shoes absolutely soaked before. Definitely something these companies need to be considering! Whatever Adidas is doing with the Lightstrike Pro in the Speed Ultra, they're doing something right! Tom is definitely always at the cutting edge of the sport, and I love how public he is with everything that he's doing
@@ConversationalPace yes, Adidas certainly has something there! Unlike most superfoams Lightstrike pro isn’t Peba, but a TPEE. It’s also much more durable. I don’t have many Adidas shoes, but before the Speed and Speed Ultra I already ‘stumbled upon ‘ the Takumi Sen 8, which turned out to be the best fast interval training shoe I ever had. Very stable, very responsive, not nearly as squishy and wobbly as most peba based super shoes and unlike those, the foams just seems to be getting better and better with the miles. I never thought about it before, but now it makes total sense to made that lightstrike pro is superior on the trails!
I'd be so curious if any of these brands have done any testing in these foams beyond 26.2 miles. I feel like Litestrike pro would perform the best and rebound the most energy after say, a 50 mile run.
@@ConversationalPace that is a very good point indeed! How well do the foam properties hold up during a long run, without it having the time to ‘recover’ like we typically give it in between runs. There are probably differences there! I can’t imagine that manufacturers don’t look into this (or test it), but I haven’t seen any data on this yet…
@@quirckybaldguy I haven't heard of any such tests beyond the marathon distance. Definitely lots of testing is being done regarding getting foams to mile 20 as in tact as possible!
dude I'm from northeast so I need shoes that can drain well, let us know if you have new findings about this soggy TX3 issue
Will keep you updated! For the time being though, the Terrex Speed and Speed Ultra continue to be some of the fastest draining shoes out there
Yes indeed, I have no doubt that many candy company execs are watching Conversational Pace😉
🤣 🤣 🤣
Hmm if the Tecton X 3 gets waterlogged... it could be a deal breaker in muddy UK
Mine just arrived and I haven’t used them yet this has me worried 😬
Yep, and running in a humid climate would make it a bit worse I'm guessing.
just did the X3 on Leadville 100 on Sat-Sun and it was fine for moisture (I think) but the rear heel counter bumpers make it a challenge for fit. If the fit is perfect, and you have a substantial sock, should be great. If you have some slippage or the sock isn't protective or cushioned, like I experienced, it can rub the back heel a bit. Give I did 100k in it, with some water crossings and mud, I think a double-sock layer (injinji, and anything) would protect you against the worst of heel rub/wear/ but the SHOE IS WORTH IT. Never thought I'd say that out loud/here. Gaiter works, bouncy, stable enough, great traction, just awesome
didn't Jim change his tecton's several times?
He changed into a mystery shoe out of the TX2.5 at mile 55, and then back into the TX2.5 at mile 80 👍
@@ConversationalPace your such a tease (mystery shoe) 😀
haha oh no I legit don't know what it is. Well it's actually in such early stages that I heard it doesn't even have a name yet, so legit mystery shoe 🤣
@@ConversationalPace pretty sure it was an all white version of the Hoka mach x 2
It wasn't. I've got a Mach X 2 and they're pretty different shape from what Jim was wearing. The Mach X 2 has an eva and peba layer of foam, whereas Jim's shoe was all peba and even higher stack than the Mach X 2
As a solid mid-pack runner I've been experimenting with increasing my carbs/hour and definitely have noticed a difference in the later miles.
We're in the fueling revolution!
David on gaiters: //"I do not understand shoe companies solving for a problem that does not exist"//
Sorry David, you can only say it doesn't exist FOR YOU. The problem actually exists. Here in the Sierra, if I don't wear my Dirty Girls, I just get my shoes FULL of decomposed granite. You can say I shuffle my feet or whatever you wish .... fine ... BUT, gaiters are the answer to MY prayers. I LOVE my Jackal 2 BOAs because they have an excellent built in gaiter.
Wasn't he specifically talking about shoes with *built-in* gaiters though? I didn't hear him hating on gaiters in general
@@CallMeShasta He was, and so was I (if you read my comment).
If an excellent gaiter can be built in (and the Jackal 2 BOA shows it can be done), I'm super grateful to not have to fool with my external gaiter. It's a clear upgrade (for me).
How many grams of sugar was David getting per hour?
I don´t think that smart people show their kids on instagram all the time..