Basically for me my worst fear came true. This is visions all over again. I DO NOT want to feel forced to do gimmick content because the legendary items are exclusively tied to it. I wanted this to be a mage tower-esque place that they can keep updating throughout the expansion with new stuff.
@@robertct06 Funny i think Visions was more rogue like then thorgast is xD. I liked visions a LOT but not the timegating on it. I would have ran it just for fun too. The problems with thorgast now is obvious and still hurting.
Visions are even better. The looks of it are appealing and you find treasure chests, where some can be opened at the end and reward pets, currency for cosmetics, etc.
nothing is more fun than spending 2 hours in TC and dying on layer 17 or 18, i feel like blizzard missed the point of rogue likes being short quick games that you can die over and over to and feel like you've learned something from.
There's true rogue and rogue lite, torg is more like a rogue lite as you retain your layer and the ash, there arent many rogue lites that are quick, however any rogue style game has more reward/satisfaction than torg does
iz the same layout , over and over and over again. IT wasn't a rogue like random generated replayable content. It's a dungeon with 3 layouts over and over again, untill you literally fall a sleep/
@@typoko i've never gone literally a sleep playing Isaac, ever. However TC generic copy of floor 2 - floor 14 , where mobs have 2 mil hp, I had my gf wake me up cuz i was falling off the map walking and sleeping.
Layer 4 twisting took 2 hours on the havoc DH solo, 2 stupid deaths 0 deaths from difficulty. Torghast is just a slog same as a layer 8 from normal runs, add 15 minutes for 40 more ash! WOOHOO. Why did layer 4 took long? Despite 400% extra immolate damage, and the extra extra ally when eyebeam, I had no further power ups. I was stuck at 23.5k dps. Only reason I survived was bacause I had 100% maw rat hp and 26 times 15% bonus. I was tanking the bosses and rares at floor 16-18 instead. Now I realize I need to do 4 more layers. Just... or how my fury warrior bricked at floor 14 layer 3, 1 hp 15% power up, mobs were one-shotting me. I had all of the damage and % based heals but never got offered HP. Powers are too roo random. So DH: High sustain heals and HP > 2+ hour to clear layer 4 due to it. Warrior fury: High damage + sustain heals and only once I got 15% hp > wasted 1.25 hours and I ragequited that day.
@@lxstunxverse you deff do... I keep getting hard stopped on twisting layer 8 because either the power I need never shows up, or overtuned bosses that do one shots every 6 seconds. I can deal with not having a needed power at the end because I made mistake when selecting them, but when I spend two hours and the one power I need for that runs end boss shows up it's insanely frustrating.
@@jimdingle4521 i got lucky and unlucky in my layer 8 - i was necrolord shadow priest, so 100% crit, but i needed eletrium fr +30% crit damage, didnt get one, if i didnt get catharstick in 18 from vendor, and shadow word death in layer 13, i wouldnt kill him, i killed him jsut thanksto weird synergy i had thanks to last anima i got, also shadow priests... why we get so much useless mind control anima powers? they are completely useless bcs boss fights are BOSS fights
The Maw is where apparently all the souls are going and thus the Jailer is getting unlimited anima, I would think that his grand tower of Torghast would be rich in this resource thus rewarding us with anima whenever we do a floor or loot chests or whatever, we should be able to farm anima from this shit place, that way all those covenant rewards become the reward for doing lots of this dreadful place.
Blizzard is stupid stingy with anima. They want it to matter as a resource but virtually everything you need anima for has other resources tied to it so..... Blizzard is super out of touch. They try too hard to make long grinds too appease stock holders and investors. All they want is the metrics of saying x amount of players spent y amount of time playing each week so investors will think it's a worthwhile investment. The best way to achieve this is have artificial grinds that really don't accomplish anything but people need to complete to do the content they actually enjoy. This game is never going to improve because the company as a whole doesn't care about it's community anymore.
It makes sense for Torghast to reward anima since, you know, every drops is being funneled there. Instead you get anima from daily quests from the places that are suffering a drought. Kinda backwards if you ask me.
I put the hours in to get the Maw mount and have barely been there since. It sucks so much. There's barely anything to do. Not even a good variety of dailies. It's the same handful over and over. Timeless Isle was ten times more fun than any daily zone Blizzard have added since. They seem set on making them a huge chore.
@@jadephenix07 lol. So you mean its too slow? Gee, if there was only a mount you could use there...but Im guessing getting that is too slow too? The issue is your "must warp speed" attitude, try some weed and chill. Its not a race.
@@MrKiwiJack meh but the zone in itself is absolutely pointless. The only thing the maw gives you is a socket for 7500 stigia. Yea I’m good man. I’ll do .1% less damage than someone 😂
@@joshyman221 2 a week multiplied by your active characters... And every new alt you want to try out on max level is 9 runs that week............................................
Yeah I think that’s a big part of the problem. The atmosphere gets old fast. Not to mention the fog seems to bog down my computer regardless of video settings and I bet I’m not the only one.
It's TOO LONG. I find myself enjoying the first 3 floors, especially if you get a fun anima power. But 6 floors... and I have to do two runs to stay competitive with my legendary... It's tedious boring shit and it makes me hate the weekly reset. I just wanna gind battle grounds. If I have to do torghast two times at 3 levels each I'd be fine with it. 6 levels of grinding through that garbage is just too boring.
@@johanneswestman935 Agreed! I also feel trapped. You can't leave and come back to finish it later. Maybe if they gave a portion of the Soul Ash at the end of Lvl3, it might be slightly better. I just don't want to commit to sitting down to slog through 6 levels.
same here, i spend 2,5 hour collecting EVERYTHING only to get 2 shot by thrash mobs on floor 17 layer 1 LOL i was SO mad i haven´t played since, that was 2 weeks ago lol fuck this boring ass game, i played since 07 but im tired of it now ±p
Yeah twisting corridors can be an absolute pain, ran layer 5 a while and died on floor 17 due to an unavoidable pack of ads that each did over half my health, 2 hours only to get told to run it again some time
5 hours for me going through Layer 2 Twisting Corridors... ok i was taking it slow and casual (i was also watching TV) but hey thats ALOT of time only to die at the end after beinhg given an impossible boss to kill solo.
Imagine i could run as my mage, and decide to go with melee powers and boost my shield barriers, and get haste for attack speed, that would be a real roguelike experience
Well remember that blizzard wow department is a small indie studio LOL they do so much work on crap non really wants except them self and there ego. That’s the entire problem with wow department heads and there ego and screw the gamers.
This was fun the first few times, then it just got dull, the background is gray, the enemies are gray, the levels drag out and unless you get decent drops in the later dungeons you just hit a brick wall.
@@TrebleAmp because it's basicslly WoWs version of hell, and a common motif of losing hope is the color fading from the world It'd be cool to see an expansion or revamp of torghast that's essentially a person torment for each floor though, facing bosses and people from the past stuck in their own hellish nightmare forced to relive their worst failures More akin to BFA and Jaina albeit more...vivid
For real, getting to the last boss and getting one-shotted because the rng was not in your flavor feel so good, especially when it took almost an hour to do.
I still find myself enjoying the first 3 floors. After that it gets tedious. It should be 3 floors plus boss. And the levels could be slightly shorter as well. It just takes too long.
That's roguelike games for ya. The thing is roguelikes are interesting because of the journey you take before you inevitably die and rolled back. That's the main problem with Torghast. It's just an uninteresting rudimentary roguelike experience. Same layouts over and over. Same mobs that don't force you to adapt from one run to another. Zero adaptability in itself. I.e. After 18 floors you are almost guaranteed to collect everything you need. I've done 8 corridor layers last week on my demo warlock and every single run was an exact copy of the previous. It's so fucking boooring.
You mean grinding mythics+ for 35 anima and no loot isn't useful?(lol) So far the only rewarding grind is farming honor. Even if you get stomped I can still get a currency worth some thing.
this is what i came here to type. saying "cause it's blizzard" is just a meme now with my friends who play their games. you can count on them to consistently do the stupidest things
@@_Hal9000 it's been a over a decade, my friend. It took time for Blizzard's quality to erode, but they are truly Activison/Blizzard now - one and the same.
choreghast is really fun. especially dying on the last boss. especially when you spend about 30-40mins. its so fun. especially since "its only optional" because you dont want any power progress.
Dying to the last boss of Twisted is way more fun when you spent 2 hours to clear the 18 floors as a ret paladin. I'm just an average bad player with ilevel 207 and I literally can't do Layer 4, this is super sad and the opposite of motivation.
Honestly, them linking soul ash to torghast has made me fucking despise it. They should just ramp up how powerful you get, because it isnt fun spending an hour in a run or multiple hours getting each floor as a new alt.
Twisting Corridors is long. Normal 6 floor Torghast is pretty ez. I've done it on all alts with a few hiccups here and there but nothing too challenging at all. Normal Torghast gives ash, TC doesn't.
The problem is they just flat out removed many powers for no reason. Ele has lost like 8 I think and because of that every single run feels the same. You are basically forced into specific powers because other builds don't do shit. It gets repetitive almost instantly. Edit: Holy shit I was really generous. They had actually removed 27!!!! powers for Elemental.
The problem is that every time blizz adds something cool, they want to make sure people do it a lot...and the only way to do that in WoW is to link the activity to gearing, in one way or another. That sounds like a good strategy, on paper, but the reality is that it means what was once fun and cool quickly becomes mundane and chore-like. Now, we're caught in a tug-of-war between the people who want Torghast to be challenging (like the old Mage Tower), and those who just want to bang it out really quickly to get their soul ash for the week. I can see the merits of each side, but don't agree fully with either.
I don't even want it to exist. I played the first week of the expansion and saw it coming. I just stopped playing. I probably will never play again actually because I know they wont go back to the wotlk ways of gearing.
@@Wedge39 Actually, there are credible rumors going around that the badge system is coming back, in response to the terrible loot system we currently have.
What Blizzard should do, then, is have a system where you can "save" your progress after every like 5 floors/layers or whatever. If you exit out of Torghast after you save, it acts as a teleportation point where you can go back to Floor 10 right away instead of having to grind back to that point. And then there needs to be a certain point (Floor 20 or whatever) where the content dramatically increases in difficulty to act as a sort of gateway to the "Mage Tower"-like content. And then there needs to be a permanent warp point to Floor 20 so that the people who reach that gateway can instantly start back there, even if they delete their "save". This way the people who want the challenge can start at Floor 20 and the people who just want the quick fun of an easy roguelike can do it from Floor 1 or wherever. And for the love of Elune, Blizzard PLEASE DO NOT MAKE THE REWARDS MANDATORY. Give Soulash rewards in other content that is already established (like running dungeons, or World Quests, or PvP, or raids, etc). You know what was great about the Mage Tower? It had awesome cosmetic rewards for the Artifact Weapon and that was it. It was really challenging, but you only had to do it if you wanted the look. It didn't increase your weapon strength, or make you more powerful. It was purely a thing for people to show off how cool they were. And it's not like people will ignore content if it is no longer mandatory. If people enjoy it, they will do it. If people don't enjoy it, they won't do it. And that's fine.
@@themetalone7739 I dread to think what form they will bring back in. There's almost 0 chance of them bringing back the old valor we are asking for, as buying items at that rate is a hard no for the current team. It's probably gonna be some garbage like residuum where 1 item takes a month or two to grind for, and is therefore nearly useless.
Seems like all the conversations we are having now are the same conversations we were having in BFA and especially in 8.3. I was so hopeful they were listening to player feedback and learning from their mistakes, now I just feel like this is how the game will be from now on.
There is it's called legendary armor, since the white version isn't transmogable and the legendary s mog appearance comes later. Since you can only make the legendary from doing torghast means....
@@Ayuima69 Why defend Blizz at this point? They are clearing cutting corners and ignoring feedback. Arrogant incompetent dev teams has simply been farming subs off the true addicts for 2 xpacs now. Wow fans will eat literal shit and keep coming back so why bother putting in any real effort or resources? That's the way blizz sees it.
On floor 3, get a ravenous cell. Use it on a flame keeper. It should drop a 65% fire reduction buff. Look up the mob to confirm. It makes this far easier to deal with, not that I enjoy eating between every few pulls, but it helps quite a bit.
you bring food to eat with between pulls and potions (depending on you being kyrian aswell) shouldnt be that hard, yes happen to play pally so its not really a problem BUT a friend of mine who loves warriors more than his own cat is tearing trough it as arms they dont have much healing but he tore trought it on stream
Skeetz neph food gives you almost no health gain as fire ticks while you’re eating. The only time you get to do that is the first time you enter a new floor.
I stopped playing a class after failing level 6 early on multiple times. Leveled a different class just so I could reliably farm something that they seemed to make a mandatory farm. IE Legendary. Still haven't played my first 60 but im sure its easier now after the nerfs but I hate torghast. id rather loose 10 bg's in a row than do both wings of torg each week. I wonder how many people might of quit because of Torghast that first month.
@@paulb_614 I quited at the start of the second month of Shadowlands, I hated Torghast and the Maw, and found the other content available to be pretty bland, PVP was good tho. I just find it funny how, when I quited, everyone was sucking blizzard's cock so hard with this mediocre expansion.
I've done such a 180 on Torghast, I absolutely loved it in the start but now I really hate doing it, it's just so slow and boring. And having to unlock everything again on my alt absolutely killed it for me.
Same thing, failed a Layer 6 run 5 weeks ago that took me 1h40m because i didn't get a % hp increase Anima because the boss was hitting me for 10+k and i only had 24k on my UHDK at 170 ilvl and now i only do Layer 3 for 300 Soul Ash each. It takes around 30 min per run which is fine compared to 1:30-2h.
Watching Alkaiser today, he mentioned an issue with Torghast is that you know exactly what you're going to walk out there with: Soul Ash. Its not exciting and feels like a chore because of that..
It feels like you have to do it. And whenever you force players to do something every week just to keep up.. You lose that player, if they have other options that is. Which I do. I went back to fighting games where I can just play and enjoy the game.
no that's not correct. Think about it, if people walked out of something that took them time with a completely random reward it'd be met with more rage than what we have now
It's not really just that, but once you beat the last boss there's nothing but the soul ash on the corpse. Then you walk out and nothing happens, there's no stats or anything even.
@@mandus7510 it isnt correct or incorrect, that's an opinion. Personally if i could pseudo gear my toon to help get to heroics while also getting ash or maybe if they added ash some other way i would actually do torghast without being pissy
Will watch the video tomorrow but my two cents is they should remove the wings and just have twisting corridors. Give soul ash as a reward for each floor you clear. Throw in some nice transmog shit, pets and a couple of mounts
I completely agree with everything said in this video. ☝ My biggest disappointment with Torghast is how different it is from what I thought it would be before Shadowlands released. Like Preach says, "Rogue likes" are meant to be challenging. I had hoped for a version of Torghast where you wouldn't get very far to begin with. 😕 In fact, in your first run, you should get completely OBLITERATED and barely be able to make it through the first room on just the first floor... But it would be an opportunity to LEARN how your class plays, and learn how to use your abilities to your full extent in terms of crowd control and cooldowns... And as you kept learning through trial and error, you would eventually overcome the floors one by one. And then one day when you finally manage to finish a run, you would be a better player because of it. But currently Torghast has turned into yet another "easy busy grind" to keep players playing. 😕 And again... before people start mouthing off "Grinding is part of MMOs"... Yes, there is nothing wrong with grinding, but there is a BIG difference between the TYPE of grind! People who thinks all types of grinds are the same are morons, and I pray that they never actually get to have a say in how WoW develops 😅 Torghast should be a optional fun piece of side content you could do if you want to do it, and not be a mandatory grind you HAVE to do each week before reset... We have plenty of that already, and we don't need more of it. We need FUN grinds that challenges us and gives us a sense of progression and achievement. THAT will get us hooked for hours in a positive way! 👈👈👈 Are you listening devs! Because currently Torghast is as much fun as simply running around the Maw, just killing random mobs! 👈😢 In all seriousness and objectively... it is EXACTLY like that, but without random buffs... because right now when you do a Torghast run, you just run out and kill mobs while watching Netflix on your second monitor... Torghast is easy and non-rewarding, and the buffs you pick up does nothing but make the run even easier and add flavor. I have absolutely NO desire to pick any side paths in Torghast "in case I find any additional buffs there", because I know I won't need it to complete the entire run. 😣 As it is right now, Blizz might as well tell us to run 5 circles around the entire Maw zone and kill random mobs every week... Torghast just feels like a confusing mess of a concept where the WoW dev team haven't actually sat down and asked, "What purpose and motivation is Torghast supposed to give to the player?". Sure some people will complain that Torghast would be too hard if I had my way here 😅 but there will always be unhappy people with this many players. And besides, since Torghast would be OPTIONAL, then they have nothing to complain about because they wouldn't HAVE to do it each week before reset. 😊
Completely disagree with all of this. It's too long, it's boring. It should be 3 levels since it's something that has to be done every week. Twisting Corridors should start off easy but get harder and harder with infinite progression.
That's exactly what happened though. Torghast was more challenging and they nerfed it. They nerfed it because of a bunch of whiny babies who cannot tolerate challenge and just want to run down their checklist of rewards each time they log in. Sadly these whiny babies seem to be the ones that Blizzard end up pandering to most of the time.
@@Zandohaha good. Nobody wants to spend a whole day in torghast. If you want a challenge then go run lvl 8 with 170 ilvl. Nobody is stopping you. I wanna pvp and in order to stay competitive I need my soul ash.
@@johanneswestman935 I mean the solution to that shouldn't be to make torghast easy and boring, it should be to make it so you don't have to engage with the system to pvp
People are calling it "Choreghast" unironically because they know they will keep coming back to get legendary ash even if its boring. I could opt out of Islands and just get less azerite power, but with no alternative path to get my legendaries, I have to do the chores. But you also hit the nail on the head. Especially the "lack of rewards if you fail". I've failed 2 runs on layer 7, floor 17 of TC. That's 1hr of my life both times, and zero to make the next run better. My build was identical every time, just hammer of wrath spam paladin. Honestly, I kept thinking "i'll just go back twice more for the mount" but then I actually just logged out of wow and went to play Hades, and got absolutely stomped for the next 2 hours (but I got some darkness and I levelled a weapon) and then I beat the end boss again and it felt good. Torghast, tonnes of potential, and Blizz used to be good at stealing others game modes and polishing them but they failed on this one.
That was my experience yesterday. Twisting Corredors layer 5.... I spent near 3 hours clearing it with my vengeance demon hunter. I got to last boss with no deaths... everything went damn smooth.. i had good powers and shit seemed alright... then last boss was an killable mutherfucker... an ooze with 5.5 million hp that from the get go was hitting me by nearly 40k.... i had 250k hp... then the ooze split in smaller oozes with nearly 1 mill hp that all casted a nasty aoe and u had to kite... kite... on a tank... i lost all my life on that boss and got kicked out... 3 hours wasted for nothing... F this shit.
@@jonathonrobinson6081 Nah man. I had a sweet build, i had no issue at all till last boss. I had strong healing procs, and even in my last attempt, which wasnt the best, i was puliing over 35k dps (again as a tank dh) I had immunities, etc... I had discarded all the powers that i know dosent help on bosses like exploding maw rats etc... It wasnt a matter of anima powers, gear, build... it was a matter of rng and bad tunning. A boss u gotta kite so u dont get one shooted by all the ooze exploding for nearly 40k, which means slow u down on dps, and hits u on melee for near 40k at the very pull on ur tank and by the end he was hitting me for 100k and i had no way to respond because i need to keep kiting... that is in no way posible to solo by anyone.
@@jonathonrobinson6081 Or your powers just aren't good to begin with because your class/spec powers suck. Or you didn't get a chance to choose anything because you got bad RNG. You can't really predict what powers you will get later. There really is no such thing as a "build" you choose given powers you actually are offered are RNG. A build is predicated upon player agency and being actually able to choose. I have done many torghast runs and I rarely get any complementary powers. If you are a pet class, there's also a boss that will one shot your pet regardless of any self-healing, forcing you into an endless loop of resummons and zero damage. One boss has an enrage you can dispel (if you have one) only for it to reapply the enrage before your dispel is off CD lol. Some specs get powers that give them millions of health and DPS. And others? Nope.
@@josejuanandrade4439 Hey friend, you should spam the first floor of the layer you want until you get the "immolation aura refreshes its duration when it deals damage" as your first anima power. Then you just pray for "immolation aura deals 100% more damage" and you stack that one as much as possible. You also need growing inferno as a conduit. Do not refresh immolation aura or the stacks will drop. After that just pick whatever is best. I blasted through every single layer of Twisting corridors with that strat on my 213 VDH, good luck ! :)
I wish twisted corridors was endless instead of finishing a layer and then going to the other they should have let us start in layer one and continue with the powers even if it's broken imo
Twisting Corridors was endless in beta, but in the last beta builds they changed it to layers and levels, because it was boring already as hell...You don't want endless Torghast
@@thetikimax6508 If the rewards match the time you spend in a run why not, but blizzard isnt good at rewarding players to play their games, it's quite the opposite actually.
@@thetikimax6508 Is boring like this though and not even the mount gives me a reason to try to beat it. I like rogue-likes I wouldn't mind the endless mode imo
It always makes me worry when they conflate player enjoyment with player engagement. They force people into doing content like island expeditions and torgast. Then turn around and say “see guys, everyone is doing the content so it must be great”.
@@thedailyaustin It's not official data, it's an assumption based on the strongly varying degrees of love, care and forethought that have gone into their games along the years, along with their mission statement to have their top developers focus on mobile games instead of what made them such a household name to begin with. Case in point, outsourcing the remaster of one of their greatest accomplishments - namely Warcraft III - to some crappy third-hand studio in Malaysia or whatever it was.
I played bfa every day for 4+ hours, did less than 10 islands over the whole expansion, didn't even notice that i was missing something. Those who say blizzard forced them to do islands are either top players or tasteless zoomers who have no goal in the game and do whatever the game tells them to.
@@Ayuima69 ignorant comment... Tower is boring, I have yet to touch TC. Loot drop suck. I done 10/10 reg CN and didn't get a single drop. Mythic+ you go countless runs and still get nothing. This is not my opinion, it by a large amount of playerbase. There more people pvping than pve because it the best way to get gear.
@@elkitesaga999 nah. loot is better than its been in forever. i wont say anything on torghast thats pretty subjective, but the loot is absolutely fine. loot is supposed to be rare. and with the vault you have plenty of chances to gear your character. now maybe you are supper ungodly unlucky, but me and my friends consider this system more than fair.
All your suggestions have one problem, they would result in Torghast possibly becoming something players would do more than raiding and Blizz can't break out of this simple algorithm they've made for themselves. To Blizz its "do X, Y and Z for player power then raid", anything outside of that can't really exist.
I’m just not feeling this expansion so far. I do love where my brewmaster monk is but running countless dungeons with no gear, the systems and 35 anima etc just burn me out quick. As well as the soul ash
The answer on what happened is short and simple. They accidentally made a really good system, tried to overstuff it and make it overly important, while at the same time wanted to change it so that way players wouldn't be given a game mode that would de-incentivize them from grinding gear for the main game, which would be raiding and such. After all, why would the vast amount of casuals like myself spend hundreds of arguably fruitless hours raiding and dungeoning to chase that ilvl, to try and see those big flashy class based numbers, when I could just go to the local friendly roguelike that let's me get to that insanely powerful point in less than a half an hour. All that would have accomplished in their eyes, I personally believe with all my cynical being, is cost them the longevity of people's wow subscription.
They broke it because e-sports people yelled at them. Real money is there, more than subs. No one wants to drink gallons of red bull doing world first mythic progression 16 hours a day while the casual player can reach 220 ilvl grinding Torghast for 2 days at their own pace. This game is not for casual players anymore since a long time now, last time i remembered i got in a PUG for heroic raid with no RIO and stuff was in Lich King.
Every time i wanna level an alt i remember "I will have to do torghast", so i dont level an alt and get bored on my main so i dont think i will even resub.
@@smokingowly3607 You don't have to do it any more than you need to running M+ keys 24/7 to get more chances at loot, or farming gold so you can buy a BoE. The question simply whether it's fun and rewarding. I'd say it still could be pretty fun but that tapered off when the difficulty levels capped at 8 in addition to getting nerfed. Even as a rogue, now it's not that exciting. Twisted corridors is pretty tough but the rewards leave it feeling like a waste of time. I'd love to see some class or spec-specific rewards (cosmetic, novel, QoL) for completing super high levels solo. It would reward players in a disadvantaged spec to give them something unique for their efforts. There really should be something to work for in there that's distinctly prestigious as the only difficult solo content in the game, where players could be recognized similar to IO score. That and some more variety in environments in future patches would be great.
I loved it. Then the twisting corridors came out, got to the final boss on the first layer and as I didn't have the correct build to kill it. I had wasted 3 hours of my life. I haven't played the game since.
YES! One layer of TC can take an entire evening with barely any breaks because you might be hunted by something that will attack you out of combat or your soul is slowly burning - that means no bathroom breaks or chilling in Torghast - it has to be a huge time investment (see: time sink), even the regular ones, that just aren't very fun compared to what was seen on the Alpha... I mean even roguelikes have a pause screen
What happened? Well like all features Blizzard starts off with an idea that has huge promise, but then they half ass it and are surprised later when it gets stale.
Same - I had our main healer quit because her legendary was 4 weeks out from worldbosses and grouping was shit in torghast... So she felt stuck... So she bought a ps5 and we havn't seen her since.
I did thorgast for the legendaries and now for the pet, its only the first tiers I cant even imagine going up higher And for what? a maw mount ? that place is EVEN SHITTIER than thorghast
@@buhg1 Funny is you can do well without a legendary, or atleast craft some other legendary, can't be completely useless. But i get the point, but quitting over it. nawww, thats not a raider then. :D
As Blizzard said before: Torghast isn't meant to be rewarding outside of Soulash. It's meant to be a fun and challenging place with repeatable content that changes everytime. Yet imo they need to add more powers and different layers to make it more complex and interesting. Also: Zelda-esk puzzles!
@@dmbuff5118 Most pointless and stupid comment of the day award has been spoken for ladies and gentlemen! Someone here hasn't heard of legendaries in shadowlands.
@@dmbuff5118 What's your point? It's only legitimate to complain about the rewards and enjoyability of content that you're "forced" to do? You're not forced to do anything in this game, you could roll a level 1 human and just do laps around Northshire Abbey if you wanted to. It wouldn't be fun, and neither is Torghast in its current iteration.
5.3 was the last patch I can remember being really solid, the Isle of Thunder patch in MoP was beautiful; the weekly story based progression on the island and the storyline felt great, you as a player actually felt like you were making an impact in the story, the writing was actually pretty solid for the patch, and MoP pvp was just top tier.
the artifact system in legion was interesting when they reduced the ridiculous amount of grind. Other than that i would say you'd have to got back as far as WotLK or cataclysm.
It's too long. Some of us have jobs and kids. I wish it had checkpoints and that you could come back multiple times a week. Plus what if you got some small rewards every few floors?
Exactly. Honestly I'd be fine with it if it had that. 6 floors was bad enough without a save point, but even with a group twisting corridors took hours this weekend for our guild group
As a casual player I can’t spend five or six hours a couple times a week without taking a break. 6 to 8 floors was perfect. At least from my play style
Every two floors you complete unlock a random transmog piece, or pet you don't have. Blizzard doesn't even need to go crazy creating just new rewards when they can create a carousel of options curated from the entirety of the game's history.
The big thing with torghast is there’s not a whole lot of choice which is a byproduct of making it mandatory for soul ash... when you make things mandatory you have to make things easy enough that all classes can do it
It’s not that easy though. I’d love if I could breeze through. Let’s say the beginning is super difficult and then you turn to a god would be fun for me
I know it's a meme but everything about Torghast screams to me that Blizzard really does not want players to have fun and to step outside the bounds of their narrow-minded design. They have a dictatorial approach to game design that's been killing the game for years with their stubbornness, slowness to respond, and just unwillingness to back down on issues that a huge number of people are complaining about. The only way Torghast will become bearable for me personally if it remains mandatory, is if they just double or triple the number of powers you're getting in regular ash runs. I don't ever wanna have a miserable run that turns into a 40-minute slog because I got shit powers, it is completely out of my hands and there is 0 enjoyment in that. I don't care how core that is to the spirit of roguelikes, WoW ain't one.
i logged in, cleared my mission table, was about to do torghast... then figured i'd enjoy fishing in classic more as i could chat with friends and potentially jump into PUG/GDKP raid if something came up. FISHING > yet another torghast run.
I would really like to be able to get my weekly soul ash in Twisting Corridors. That would mean I would eventually reach level 8 and get my mount (in a month or so). Now I do my two 6 layer wings each week, which takes like 2 hours. After that mandatory grind, I look at Twisting Corridors and it's 10 hour grind, and decide to do something else. Even if it is kinda fun, I will not spend 10 hours to get a mount. Now if I could get my weekly capped soul ash from doing one Twisting Corridors, I would definitely prefer to do that each week, getting soul ash and working toward the mount. To engagement metrics it would be the same, as doing 1 Twisting Corridors takes about as much time as doing the 2 wings each week for me. Also, please allow alts to skip to maximum difficulty in the wings, so tedious doing them one by one to get 40 soul ash each floor on an alt for the first time.
I've already benched two of my alts because I just can't be arsed punishing myself by setting aside time to run Torghast on multiple characters every week, I find it super boring
Every time you make a video I like you more and more. This is exactly the problem I have with thorgasts. I never really found it very difficult as a Mythic raider, but I do 100% wish I had more options than the 2 or 3 playable builds per character we have. I would have loved to see more pets/transmogs as well from this too.
I've given up on the Maw, the towers, everything. I just can't be assed man. I was excited for all of this until I had to do it in a group and couldn't do it myself. I'm a solo player, for now, until I find a group, and have been tanking Torghast and am sick and tired of the toxicity of the player base. I either move too quick or too slow, or can't keep everything's attention, or some other excuse and it's getting tired. I just want to do my run solo and be done with it. The Maw is the most MIND NUMBING BORING garbage I've ever done. Yes I know I should be getting rep with Ve'nari, and should be getting the currency and doing it daily, but Jesus Christ... there's only so much I can do in one day. Between Callings, Anima gathering, the weekly Soul Ash, The weekly run 1 Mythic+ and/or kill at least 3 bosses in Castle Nathria (which I have to do LFR as my guild fell apart years ago), and renown, and covenent quests, and blah blah blah! Sure, I like having a variety of things to do, but at the same time, a lot of it is mandatory to keep up to date on your character. I can't imagine even attempting to level my alts up to do anything with them. I have enough to do on my main, I don't need to double it, or triple it. There's a fine line between having nothing to do, and having too much to do.
you sound like someone who grey parses in normal raids. Nobody wants to play with you, they arent toxic, they are just normal humans, not a weirdo like you.
@@Diavolo222 interesting. Thanks a bunch for proving my point of the toxicity of the player base. I'm so happy to know there's a sect of people within the game that like to come into comment sections of WoW videos, make judgements based on someone's opinion and call them names without ever interacting with them. You know, it's pretty neat that you have the time and the group to do all the "major" content while I, a player of 16 years, have a family, had a guild that fell apart because we're all family people, and cannot devote the time you may be able to the game. It's also nice to know that I'm "weird" for prioritizing my family commitments over a game. You stay classy random person on the internet!
Legendaries are a "forced" system. It's at the forefront of crafting, a main selling point of the expansion. No, you aren't required to use them, but you get powers through regular gameplay, and in some perspectives it forces players to farm soul ash, buy the base items, and craft their legendary. The bad taste comes even further from the increased cost overall, spec swapping, or even rerolling.
Some quick alt maths for anyone interested. Taking out the shop floor and including the boss floor your alts need to run 45 floors of torghast to catch up. In addition you will be doing rescue runs about 3 of these and possibly additional ones if you need to collect info outside of a soul ash run. We are now at a minimum of 60 floors of torghast on an alt.
They ruined torghast. Instead of a optional thing that you do for fun till the point you can & infinite retries to have fun, get better in a chill maner. You get time gated shit with layers, each layer has levels & those levels has floors. Never mind that you need to do this & you are forced... it's pure shit.
Blizzard can't get it through their heads that in MMOs players like carving their own paths or having optional things they can do in which the fun is their own reward, they're obsessed with developing systems that push participation statistics to very high numbers for every type of content in the game.
Yes, I have no clue when they decided to add layers... It seems like they were riding on player goodwill and just gradually implementing weird time gating and odd caps and limits to increase the time players spend in the game...
@@MrJesuisOMG Yeah, if you don't want to be able to craft your legendary and don't want to progress your character's power, you don't need to do it in the same way that you don't need to do dungeons, pvp, or raid content. Pretty much everyone who is playing the game, even in a casual raid environment, is going to want a legendary. Even hyper-casual players who don't do m+, raid, or rated pvp want their legendaries since it's soloable content and is something they can work towards.
This is why I only do level 3. I can't be bothered with that shit hole. 6 levels is too much. At lvl 3 I can stealth to the boss, kill, rinse and repeat on the next level.
In alpha and beta you weren't making actual progress outside of Torghast that would continue after those were over. Torghast works a lot better in a sandbox setting because outside of that, it feels more like a chore that we >have< to do rather than a fun novelty that we can do if we want, but don't need to.
I don’t know what happened, they probably tried to deliver too much in the time they had, but Torghast and the Maw seriously missed the mark. If there were other ways to get soul ash I wouldn’t set foot in either of them again.
I still like Torghast, maybe because I had an easier time with it as a Demo Warlock and I do it with a friend (BM Hunter) while we’re on comms, but on the Twisting Corridors, and specially on higher layers it feels like total shit, mobs take a good time to kill my pet but then just one shot me out of nowhere, even stacking stats like versatility, having multiple damage reduction cooldowns stacked (Ex: The anima power that reduces your damage taken by 50% for 10 seconds once you use Demonic Circle + Unending Resolve - Which is -40% damage taken for 8 seconds) Sometimes mobs (specially Mort’regar shadows) one shot my pet (without the third hit buff) and my pet immediately respawns at 10% health without all the anima powers I put into it and dies again and again and keeps respawning at same 10% health. The scaling gets wacky, mobs that were doing a normal amount of damage in the last floor suddenly one shot you Sometimes mobs that you haven’t interacted with at the other side of the room get aggroed My pet loses their anima powers when I take the portals in Mort’regar, or the ropes The Mawsworn aoe in Coldheart Interstitial one shots my pet even if I’m not standing on it On Skoldus Halls sometimes they have an anima power you can’t get to and that feels terrible There is a dire need for more anima powers to be in Torghast as you get 100 or so anima powers in Twisting Corridors and those are all there are available for your spec or class I feel locked in one spec because it takes a huge load of time to get enough soul ash to craft a rank 4 legendary, twisting corridors has little cosmetic rewards (4 if I’m not mistaken) which means doing 4 of those 8 layers feels absolutely pointless. Overall, they really need to take a look at balancing the place, creating more environments and layers to make it more interesting, keep adding events like Beasts of Prodigum, many, many more anima powers, and give more cosmetic rewards. That’s why I feel like at least
Give us anima as well as the phantasma and its solved. 1000 anima per 6 floor and people can get cosmetic stuff from their covenants. Also make soul ash obtainable elsewhere as well as in torghast...
I wish they didn't cap so many of the powers, and I wish getting a power leaned the system more towards giving you related ones. Some of the most fun you can have is with the powers that do let you stack them, so why stop the others? It's a for-fun, RNG mode anyway, so let people have fun with RNG bullshit.
The worst part of Torghast is playing alts, no-one wants to level an alt and then wait 1-2 weeks, plus like 10 runs of boring same same content. An easy fix is to just add soul ash as a reward to the great vault, much like BFA's residuum. Obviously Torghast as a whole still needs to be changed, moving away from mandatory content is what the people want.
As a mage I find the soul forges and other caster based areas really hard, being unable to kite. Also there are way too many mawrat related anima powers and as night fae, way too many soulshape and shifting power anima powers.
Mort'regar as frost mage... Nice idea by Blizz to make a spec based around kiting, and then have literally everything have teleports to you that even bypass the anima power that prevents you from being targeted. On the other hand, something where you can kite like Skoldus is really easy outside of bosses. They really should make the wings more balanced. But well, could start with the classes.
Things to add: 1. LOADS of more powers 2. A challenge system similar to Masks in Horrific Visions 3. A timed mode 4. New floors/wings 5. Lots of cosmetic rewards (armor sets, weapon transmogs, more mounts, pets, toys, titles etc.) 6. A save system for the Twisting corridors 7. A new, farmable currency for cosmetic rewards. 8. Fixing class balancing 9. A proper infinite mode w/ leaderboard? 10. Actual optionality I could spend hours in Torghast as is, since monotonous grinding tickles some part of me. However, based on feedback of others and the fact that such a grind isn't for everyone, I think these would retain the gameplay I enjoy, while fixing the faults that turn others away from it.
Pretty much the same for me on my Warlock. There is one specific pet power that I hope to have drop, and early on the floors, or I am kinda hosed for the end boss.
Just level your pet for that 50% damage when reached critical health. If you play defensively and let your pet agro your pet one shots. Pray you get the one that increase fireball damage and you three tap smaller things
The part of visions in BFA i liked the most was when you had that 'external' progression, where you could go further and further with every run. So I think you hit the nail on the head in regards to Torghast needing some sort of progression outside of each individual instance.
It's just not fun or rewarding. It's not something that i look forward to doing every week. It really should be called Choreghast. The worst time sync for nothing ratio to date! At least Blizzard's share holders should be happy. I guess that matters most at the end of the day.. or quarter
I feel like the entire game design philosophy for Shadowlands was to keep every activity at like 30-60 minute bites. They literally took the fucking story campaign for each zone, and replaced it with world quests, then sliced up the main story into weekly chunks... Like, as someone trying to level alts, there is literally no way for me to just sit down for a day and like, do a zone, because in order to access any of the story, I need to do the fucking weekly grind to get Renown with a covenant, which I can only do at max level anyway. Literally any activity beyond the initially linear story you can do in Shadowlands is "hey, do you wanna spend an hour running around in this area, doing random world quests?"
I quit the game because of Torghast and M+. As a somewhat casual player I just can't bring myself to play the game when two of the major systems feel like they're specifically designed to waste my time.
Basically for me my worst fear came true. This is visions all over again. I DO NOT want to feel forced to do gimmick content because the legendary items are exclusively tied to it. I wanted this to be a mage tower-esque place that they can keep updating throughout the expansion with new stuff.
Yup. I actually thought visions was fun though. They keep forcing players to play and it’s killing them
@@robertct06 Funny i think Visions was more rogue like then thorgast is xD. I liked visions a LOT but not the timegating on it. I would have ran it just for fun too. The problems with thorgast now is obvious and still hurting.
Visions are even better. The looks of it are appealing and you find treasure chests, where some can be opened at the end and reward pets, currency for cosmetics, etc.
They were also relatively short so if you bricked a run it didnt feel so bad to start over.
Yeah but visions were MUCH harder and were more pressed on time.
nothing is more fun than spending 2 hours in TC and dying on layer 17 or 18, i feel like blizzard missed the point of rogue likes being short quick games that you can die over and over to and feel like you've learned something from.
Have you never played a good rogue likes? A good rogue like will take weeks to do with one death sending you back to the start
@@ODShic good roguelikes come in different shapes and sizes, you're both right
@@ODShic I remember when that was just shitty RPG's with a bad save system.
There's true rogue and rogue lite, torg is more like a rogue lite as you retain your layer and the ash, there arent many rogue lites that are quick, however any rogue style game has more reward/satisfaction than torg does
Rogue likes arent quick games at all if you plan to fully clear them.
iz the same layout , over and over and over again. IT wasn't a rogue like random generated replayable content. It's a dungeon with 3 layouts over and over again, untill you literally fall a sleep/
You know, Isaac did pretty well with 3 repeatable layouts. ;)
@@typoko i've never gone literally a sleep playing Isaac, ever. However TC generic copy of floor 2 - floor 14 , where mobs have 2 mil hp, I had my gf wake me up cuz i was falling off the map walking and sleeping.
@@filipfenix Yes because in Isaac you never have low damage runs where you have to struggle to kill mobs.
Layer 4 twisting took 2 hours on the havoc DH solo, 2 stupid deaths 0 deaths from difficulty. Torghast is just a slog same as a layer 8 from normal runs, add 15 minutes for 40 more ash! WOOHOO. Why did layer 4 took long? Despite 400% extra immolate damage, and the extra extra ally when eyebeam, I had no further power ups. I was stuck at 23.5k dps. Only reason I survived was bacause I had 100% maw rat hp and 26 times 15% bonus. I was tanking the bosses and rares at floor 16-18 instead. Now I realize I need to do 4 more layers. Just... or how my fury warrior bricked at floor 14 layer 3, 1 hp 15% power up, mobs were one-shotting me. I had all of the damage and % based heals but never got offered HP. Powers are too roo random. So DH: High sustain heals and HP > 2+ hour to clear layer 4 due to it. Warrior fury: High damage + sustain heals and only once I got 15% hp > wasted 1.25 hours and I ragequited that day.
I can't decide what was worse, my hunter or my druid. On the plus side, it actually felt like an achievement to finish TC 8 on my
"I don't feel like I'm looking for powers, I feel like I'm missing powers until I get them" Dude you 100% nailed that
Exactly. It feels like you NEED certain powers to go further on layers. If you don't have them, you will fail eventually.
@@lxstunxverse you deff do... I keep getting hard stopped on twisting layer 8 because either the power I need never shows up, or overtuned bosses that do one shots every 6 seconds. I can deal with not having a needed power at the end because I made mistake when selecting them, but when I spend two hours and the one power I need for that runs end boss shows up it's insanely frustrating.
@@jimdingle4521 i got lucky and unlucky in my layer 8 - i was necrolord shadow priest, so 100% crit, but i needed eletrium fr +30% crit damage, didnt get one, if i didnt get catharstick in 18 from vendor, and shadow word death in layer 13, i wouldnt kill him, i killed him jsut thanksto weird synergy i had thanks to last anima i got, also shadow priests... why we get so much useless mind control anima powers? they are completely useless bcs boss fights are BOSS fights
So, it’s a roguelike? Sounds like what they were trying to make, cool. It’s been pretty fun so far.
The Maw is where apparently all the souls are going and thus the Jailer is getting unlimited anima, I would think that his grand tower of Torghast would be rich in this resource thus rewarding us with anima whenever we do a floor or loot chests or whatever, we should be able to farm anima from this shit place, that way all those covenant rewards become the reward for doing lots of this dreadful place.
WOW what an actual good idea. Too bad because it's a good idea Blizzard will never use it or think of it themselves. Fucking sell out garbage company.
Blizzard is stupid stingy with anima. They want it to matter as a resource but virtually everything you need anima for has other resources tied to it so.....
Blizzard is super out of touch. They try too hard to make long grinds too appease stock holders and investors. All they want is the metrics of saying x amount of players spent y amount of time playing each week so investors will think it's a worthwhile investment. The best way to achieve this is have artificial grinds that really don't accomplish anything but people need to complete to do the content they actually enjoy.
This game is never going to improve because the company as a whole doesn't care about it's community anymore.
That would make too much sense, and the mounts and transmogs would be too good an actual reason to do Torghast :/
It makes sense for Torghast to reward anima since, you know, every drops is being funneled there. Instead you get anima from daily quests from the places that are suffering a drought. Kinda backwards if you ask me.
I agree. Even the horrific visions felt more rewarding because you picked up treasure chests and pets throughout.
Sadly I have all but given up on both torghast and the Maw I find both of them either mind numbingly boring or extremely frustrating.
The maw is just bad, unless you are a Druid or worgen.
I put the hours in to get the Maw mount and have barely been there since. It sucks so much. There's barely anything to do. Not even a good variety of dailies. It's the same handful over and over. Timeless Isle was ten times more fun than any daily zone Blizzard have added since. They seem set on making them a huge chore.
@@jadephenix07 lol. So you mean its too slow? Gee, if there was only a mount you could use there...but Im guessing getting that is too slow too? The issue is your "must warp speed" attitude, try some weed and chill. Its not a race.
@@MrKiwiJack meh but the zone in itself is absolutely pointless. The only thing the maw gives you is a socket for 7500 stigia. Yea I’m good man. I’ll do .1% less damage than someone 😂
@@MrKiwiJack was a partial joke but yes please mind read. Shadowlands got boring really fast for me. It was fun at first then just petered out.
Not gonna lie the stuff they (you tubers) were saying about it before launch had me excited. When I actually played it I hated it.
It was another game in alpha/beta
I wouldn’t say I hate it, especially not initially. but it’s not particularly thrilling and having to do 2 a week has now made me dislike
@@joshyman221 2 a week multiplied by your active characters... And every new alt you want to try out on max level is 9 runs that week............................................
Yup, I bought into the hype.
@@naotembiscoito27 apparently so. I want that game I paid for the preorder
Torghast and the Maw are tedious, drab, depressing places where I choose not to spend my time
Yeah I think that’s a big part of the problem. The atmosphere gets old fast. Not to mention the fog seems to bog down my computer regardless of video settings and I bet I’m not the only one.
@@SeemsLikeSomething I think you can turn it off in your Wow settings.
It's TOO LONG. I find myself enjoying the first 3 floors, especially if you get a fun anima power. But 6 floors... and I have to do two runs to stay competitive with my legendary... It's tedious boring shit and it makes me hate the weekly reset. I just wanna gind battle grounds. If I have to do torghast two times at 3 levels each I'd be fine with it. 6 levels of grinding through that garbage is just too boring.
Did you think that Hell would be a vacation
@@johanneswestman935 Agreed! I also feel trapped. You can't leave and come back to finish it later. Maybe if they gave a portion of the Soul Ash at the end of Lvl3, it might be slightly better. I just don't want to commit to sitting down to slog through 6 levels.
1.5hr run in layer 2 twisted corridor. Died on the 18th floor. The level of rage I felt cannot be quantified.
same here, i spend 2,5 hour collecting EVERYTHING only to get 2 shot by thrash mobs on floor 17 layer 1 LOL i was SO mad i haven´t played since, that was 2 weeks ago lol fuck this boring ass game, i played since 07 but im tired of it now ±p
Yeah twisting corridors can be an absolute pain, ran layer 5 a while and died on floor 17 due to an unavoidable pack of ads that each did over half my health, 2 hours only to get told to run it again some time
5 hours for me going through Layer 2 Twisting Corridors... ok i was taking it slow and casual (i was also watching TV) but hey thats ALOT of time only to die at the end after beinhg given an impossible boss to kill solo.
But what's important is the fun you had along the way, not the reward !
Same here wasn't a lot of fun, up to 18 floor and get smoked. Haven't been back!
I wish we could use Torghast to level alts, I'd play it a lot more then.
This.
Imagine i could run as my mage, and decide to go with melee powers and boost my shield barriers, and get haste for attack speed, that would be a real roguelike experience
@@ademord why would u roll a mage if ur wet dream is being a melee?
I thought it was intended for it. I was sad seeing you cant....
Like palace of the dead from ff14. Would be dope
the fact that islands on launch had more cosmetics than Torghast has is a sad fact.
lol
Hold on a sec..... torghast has soul ash.... isn't that cool and fun?!
The keep the cosmetics for the shop to sell.
Well remember that blizzard wow department is a small indie studio LOL they do so much work on crap non really wants except them self and there ego. That’s the entire problem with wow department heads and there ego and screw the gamers.
I didn't realize Torghast had cosmetics. What would those be, other than the mount?
This was fun the first few times, then it just got dull, the background is gray, the enemies are gray, the levels drag out and unless you get decent drops in the later dungeons you just hit a brick wall.
100% agree! Why is everything grey??!
Agreed! Me and my buddy were talking about how nice it would be to just see something different. A scarlet monastery tile set would be super cool
@@TrebleAmp because it's basicslly WoWs version of hell, and a common motif of losing hope is the color fading from the world
It'd be cool to see an expansion or revamp of torghast that's essentially a person torment for each floor though, facing bosses and people from the past stuck in their own hellish nightmare forced to relive their worst failures
More akin to BFA and Jaina albeit more...vivid
For real, getting to the last boss and getting one-shotted because the rng was not in your flavor feel so good, especially when it took almost an hour to do.
I still find myself enjoying the first 3 floors. After that it gets tedious. It should be 3 floors plus boss. And the levels could be slightly shorter as well. It just takes too long.
The only thing thy really made me hate thorgast is dying to last boss and realising the wasted time I could spent on something more useful.
That's roguelike games for ya. The thing is roguelikes are interesting because of the journey you take before you inevitably die and rolled back. That's the main problem with Torghast. It's just an uninteresting rudimentary roguelike experience. Same layouts over and over. Same mobs that don't force you to adapt from one run to another. Zero adaptability in itself. I.e. After 18 floors you are almost guaranteed to collect everything you need.
I've done 8 corridor layers last week on my demo warlock and every single run was an exact copy of the previous. It's so fucking boooring.
You mean grinding mythics+ for 35 anima and no loot isn't useful?(lol) So far the only rewarding grind is farming honor. Even if you get stomped I can still get a currency worth some thing.
Like wiping for 2 hrs in raid.
I'm glad this happenned to me for in my first 3 runs, and I just totally gave up that since then.
@@Shatamx When all you need is "rewarding grind" you should play zero player clickers, not mmorpgs.
"So what happened" I'm going to guess they did the normal blizzard thing and changed the fun out of it, because it was too fun.
this is what i came here to type. saying "cause it's blizzard" is just a meme now with my friends who play their games. you can count on them to consistently do the stupidest things
@@Paul-zh2jp people talk down and belittle people saying this, but Blizzards actions kind of makes it hard to not say and think this.
Boreghast sucked since day 1 though
*activision
@@_Hal9000 it's been a over a decade, my friend. It took time for Blizzard's quality to erode, but they are truly Activison/Blizzard now - one and the same.
Preach: "Somewhere along the way they lost their path.."
Devos: "THE PATH IS FLAWED!!!!"
choreghast is really fun. especially dying on the last boss. especially when you spend about 30-40mins. its so fun. especially since "its only optional" because you dont want any power progress.
Dying to the last boss of Twisted is way more fun when you spent 2 hours to clear the 18 floors as a ret paladin. I'm just an average bad player with ilevel 207 and I literally can't do Layer 4, this is super sad and the opposite of motivation.
You nailed it: I lost interest in it the moment they made it mandatory content.
Honestly, them linking soul ash to torghast has made me fucking despise it. They should just ramp up how powerful you get, because it isnt fun spending an hour in a run or multiple hours getting each floor as a new alt.
I think they should add Soul Ash once a week, say like 250 for a WQ
@@Metaldogg They should put a cap on how much you get per week and allow you to get it from other forms of content.
Actually I have a ton of fun on alts in Torg because I like exploring the new abilities and builds you can do in there
I've got like 4k ash saved up, can't afford to upgrade again. Far as I'm concerned I'm done with it forever. Wasn't fun.
This is why I haven't leveled alts, the grind for soul ash becomes painful instead of rewarding.
Twisting Corridors is long. Normal 6 floor Torghast is pretty ez. I've done it on all alts with a few hiccups here and there but nothing too challenging at all. Normal Torghast gives ash, TC doesn't.
The problem is they just flat out removed many powers for no reason. Ele has lost like 8 I think and because of that every single run feels the same. You are basically forced into specific powers because other builds don't do shit. It gets repetitive almost instantly.
Edit: Holy shit I was really generous. They had actually removed 27!!!! powers for Elemental.
27?! Goddamn...
Can't say blizz didn't take the feedback. They took it out back and shot it
Winning comment right here! LMAO!
@@dryersheet9246 thank you!
Yep, once more Blizzard listened to crying babies who cannot handle difficulty or failure and ended up neutering something because of it.
Sent to the feedback farm upstate
@@Zandohaha Did you even watch the video? The actual reason people don't enjoy it is because blizzard changed it fundamentally from the alpha version.
The problem is that every time blizz adds something cool, they want to make sure people do it a lot...and the only way to do that in WoW is to link the activity to gearing, in one way or another.
That sounds like a good strategy, on paper, but the reality is that it means what was once fun and cool quickly becomes mundane and chore-like.
Now, we're caught in a tug-of-war between the people who want Torghast to be challenging (like the old Mage Tower), and those who just want to bang it out really quickly to get their soul ash for the week. I can see the merits of each side, but don't agree fully with either.
I don't even want it to exist. I played the first week of the expansion and saw it coming. I just stopped playing. I probably will never play again actually because I know they wont go back to the wotlk ways of gearing.
@@Wedge39 Actually, there are credible rumors going around that the badge system is coming back, in response to the terrible loot system we currently have.
U could just ad cosmetic rewards insted of gearing and u get the same ppl love cosmetics...
What Blizzard should do, then, is have a system where you can "save" your progress after every like 5 floors/layers or whatever. If you exit out of Torghast after you save, it acts as a teleportation point where you can go back to Floor 10 right away instead of having to grind back to that point.
And then there needs to be a certain point (Floor 20 or whatever) where the content dramatically increases in difficulty to act as a sort of gateway to the "Mage Tower"-like content. And then there needs to be a permanent warp point to Floor 20 so that the people who reach that gateway can instantly start back there, even if they delete their "save".
This way the people who want the challenge can start at Floor 20 and the people who just want the quick fun of an easy roguelike can do it from Floor 1 or wherever.
And for the love of Elune, Blizzard PLEASE DO NOT MAKE THE REWARDS MANDATORY. Give Soulash rewards in other content that is already established (like running dungeons, or World Quests, or PvP, or raids, etc). You know what was great about the Mage Tower? It had awesome cosmetic rewards for the Artifact Weapon and that was it. It was really challenging, but you only had to do it if you wanted the look. It didn't increase your weapon strength, or make you more powerful. It was purely a thing for people to show off how cool they were.
And it's not like people will ignore content if it is no longer mandatory. If people enjoy it, they will do it. If people don't enjoy it, they won't do it. And that's fine.
@@themetalone7739 I dread to think what form they will bring back in. There's almost 0 chance of them bringing back the old valor we are asking for, as buying items at that rate is a hard no for the current team. It's probably gonna be some garbage like residuum where 1 item takes a month or two to grind for, and is therefore nearly useless.
Seems like all the conversations we are having now are the same conversations we were having in BFA and especially in 8.3. I was so hopeful they were listening to player feedback and learning from their mistakes, now I just feel like this is how the game will be from now on.
There should at the VERY LEAST be an armor mog-set we could collect in there, but nope.
Small indie company
There is it's called legendary armor, since the white version isn't transmogable and the legendary s mog appearance comes later. Since you can only make the legendary from doing torghast means....
@@Ayuima69
So there isnt, then. Also, you get no ash for crafting legendaries out of Twisting Corridors.
@@Ayuima69 “comes later” so your argument is pointless since it’s not in the game.
@@Ayuima69 Why defend Blizz at this point? They are clearing cutting corners and ignoring feedback. Arrogant incompetent dev teams has simply been farming subs off the true addicts for 2 xpacs now. Wow fans will eat literal shit and keep coming back so why bother putting in any real effort or resources? That's the way blizz sees it.
I also just skipped soul forge when it was in rotation. Doing 10% of your health every 5 seconds on layer 8 on a class that can't heal itself...
I wondered how some classes handled that.
On floor 3, get a ravenous cell. Use it on a flame keeper. It should drop a 65% fire reduction buff. Look up the mob to confirm. It makes this far easier to deal with, not that I enjoy eating between every few pulls, but it helps quite a bit.
you bring food to eat with between pulls and potions (depending on you being kyrian aswell) shouldnt be that hard, yes happen to play pally so its not really a problem BUT a friend of mine who loves warriors more than his own cat is tearing trough it as arms they dont have much healing but he tore trought it on stream
Skeetz neph food gives you almost no health gain as fire ticks while you’re eating. The only time you get to do that is the first time you enter a new floor.
@@skeetzneph870 food does nothing on the higher floors of high layers, you get damaged more than you are healed
If I got Stygia in torghast I would be happier. I don't enjoy the Maw
I stopped playing a class after failing level 6 early on multiple times. Leveled a different class just so I could reliably farm something that they seemed to make a mandatory farm. IE Legendary. Still haven't played my first 60 but im sure its easier now after the nerfs but I hate torghast. id rather loose 10 bg's in a row than do both wings of torg each week. I wonder how many people might of quit because of Torghast that first month.
I don't want Stygia from anything. i don't want to be in the maw.
@@paulb_614 I quited at the start of the second month of Shadowlands, I hated Torghast and the Maw, and found the other content available to be pretty bland, PVP was good tho.
I just find it funny how, when I quited, everyone was sucking blizzard's cock so hard with this mediocre expansion.
Choreghast sucks. Not enough cosmetic rewards and too much of a required time investment for pennies
Yeah. Legos are totally overrated. Oh wait....
@@MrKiwiJack yes exactly, you are forced to do runs to get soul ash, hence - 'chore' gast
"We're playing MMOs, we're going to do some degenerate shit" love this statement and sums up old Barrens Chat and Current Trade Chat.
I've done such a 180 on Torghast, I absolutely loved it in the start but now I really hate doing it, it's just so slow and boring. And having to unlock everything again on my alt absolutely killed it for me.
Same thing, failed a Layer 6 run 5 weeks ago that took me 1h40m because i didn't get a % hp increase Anima because the boss was hitting me for 10+k and i only had 24k on my UHDK at 170 ilvl and now i only do Layer 3 for 300 Soul Ash each.
It takes around 30 min per run which is fine compared to 1:30-2h.
SLOW is the key word here. It takes too goddamn long. 6 floors is too much, it ought to be 3 floors.
Quit doing the Maw weeks ago and only do torghast on one character
i only do the free souls quest each week cuz of renown. That zone is the most boring thing i ever see
Watching Alkaiser today, he mentioned an issue with Torghast is that you know exactly what you're going to walk out there with: Soul Ash. Its not exciting and feels like a chore because of that..
It feels like you have to do it. And whenever you force players to do something every week just to keep up.. You lose that player, if they have other options that is. Which I do. I went back to fighting games where I can just play and enjoy the game.
no that's not correct. Think about it, if people walked out of something that took them time with a completely random reward it'd be met with more rage than what we have now
@@mandus7510 Well then give options as to what you can get instead of making it wholly scripted or wholly random.
It's not really just that, but once you beat the last boss there's nothing but the soul ash on the corpse. Then you walk out and nothing happens, there's no stats or anything even.
@@mandus7510 it isnt correct or incorrect, that's an opinion.
Personally if i could pseudo gear my toon to help get to heroics while also getting ash or maybe if they added ash some other way i would actually do torghast without being pissy
Will watch the video tomorrow but my two cents is they should remove the wings and just have twisting corridors. Give soul ash as a reward for each floor you clear. Throw in some nice transmog shit, pets and a couple of mounts
tbh this is a great idea
I think the fact alone that every run is so static thematically kind of ruined the replayability, even before you get to the soul ash and tediousness.
I completely agree with everything said in this video. ☝ My biggest disappointment with Torghast is how different it is from what I thought it would be before Shadowlands released. Like Preach says, "Rogue likes" are meant to be challenging.
I had hoped for a version of Torghast where you wouldn't get very far to begin with. 😕 In fact, in your first run, you should get completely OBLITERATED and barely be able to make it through the first room on just the first floor...
But it would be an opportunity to LEARN how your class plays, and learn how to use your abilities to your full extent in terms of crowd control and cooldowns... And as you kept learning through trial and error, you would eventually overcome the floors one by one. And then one day when you finally manage to finish a run, you would be a better player because of it.
But currently Torghast has turned into yet another "easy busy grind" to keep players playing. 😕 And again... before people start mouthing off "Grinding is part of MMOs"... Yes, there is nothing wrong with grinding, but there is a BIG difference between the TYPE of grind! People who thinks all types of grinds are the same are morons, and I pray that they never actually get to have a say in how WoW develops 😅
Torghast should be a optional fun piece of side content you could do if you want to do it, and not be a mandatory grind you HAVE to do each week before reset... We have plenty of that already, and we don't need more of it. We need FUN grinds that challenges us and gives us a sense of progression and achievement. THAT will get us hooked for hours in a positive way! 👈👈👈 Are you listening devs!
Because currently Torghast is as much fun as simply running around the Maw, just killing random mobs! 👈😢 In all seriousness and objectively... it is EXACTLY like that, but without random buffs... because right now when you do a Torghast run, you just run out and kill mobs while watching Netflix on your second monitor...
Torghast is easy and non-rewarding, and the buffs you pick up does nothing but make the run even easier and add flavor. I have absolutely NO desire to pick any side paths in Torghast "in case I find any additional buffs there", because I know I won't need it to complete the entire run. 😣
As it is right now, Blizz might as well tell us to run 5 circles around the entire Maw zone and kill random mobs every week...
Torghast just feels like a confusing mess of a concept where the WoW dev team haven't actually sat down and asked, "What purpose and motivation is Torghast supposed to give to the player?".
Sure some people will complain that Torghast would be too hard if I had my way here 😅 but there will always be unhappy people with this many players. And besides, since Torghast would be OPTIONAL, then they have nothing to complain about because they wouldn't HAVE to do it each week before reset. 😊
Completely disagree with all of this. It's too long, it's boring. It should be 3 levels since it's something that has to be done every week. Twisting Corridors should start off easy but get harder and harder with infinite progression.
That's exactly what happened though. Torghast was more challenging and they nerfed it. They nerfed it because of a bunch of whiny babies who cannot tolerate challenge and just want to run down their checklist of rewards each time they log in.
Sadly these whiny babies seem to be the ones that Blizzard end up pandering to most of the time.
@@Zandohaha good. Nobody wants to spend a whole day in torghast. If you want a challenge then go run lvl 8 with 170 ilvl. Nobody is stopping you. I wanna pvp and in order to stay competitive I need my soul ash.
@@johanneswestman935 I mean the solution to that shouldn't be to make torghast easy and boring, it should be to make it so you don't have to engage with the system to pvp
People are calling it "Choreghast" unironically because they know they will keep coming back to get legendary ash even if its boring. I could opt out of Islands and just get less azerite power, but with no alternative path to get my legendaries, I have to do the chores.
But you also hit the nail on the head. Especially the "lack of rewards if you fail". I've failed 2 runs on layer 7, floor 17 of TC. That's 1hr of my life both times, and zero to make the next run better. My build was identical every time, just hammer of wrath spam paladin.
Honestly, I kept thinking "i'll just go back twice more for the mount" but then I actually just logged out of wow and went to play Hades, and got absolutely stomped for the next 2 hours (but I got some darkness and I levelled a weapon) and then I beat the end boss again and it felt good. Torghast, tonnes of potential, and Blizz used to be good at stealing others game modes and polishing them but they failed on this one.
Two hours in the twisting towers before hitting an unkillable boss... Unnnggg
That was my experience yesterday. Twisting Corredors layer 5.... I spent near 3 hours clearing it with my vengeance demon hunter. I got to last boss with no deaths... everything went damn smooth.. i had good powers and shit seemed alright... then last boss was an killable mutherfucker... an ooze with 5.5 million hp that from the get go was hitting me by nearly 40k.... i had 250k hp... then the ooze split in smaller oozes with nearly 1 mill hp that all casted a nasty aoe and u had to kite... kite... on a tank... i lost all my life on that boss and got kicked out... 3 hours wasted for nothing... F this shit.
You chose your powers poorly.
@@jonathonrobinson6081 Nah man. I had a sweet build, i had no issue at all till last boss. I had strong healing procs, and even in my last attempt, which wasnt the best, i was puliing over 35k dps (again as a tank dh) I had immunities, etc... I had discarded all the powers that i know dosent help on bosses like exploding maw rats etc...
It wasnt a matter of anima powers, gear, build... it was a matter of rng and bad tunning. A boss u gotta kite so u dont get one shooted by all the ooze exploding for nearly 40k, which means slow u down on dps, and hits u on melee for near 40k at the very pull on ur tank and by the end he was hitting me for 100k and i had no way to respond because i need to keep kiting... that is in no way posible to solo by anyone.
@@jonathonrobinson6081 Or your powers just aren't good to begin with because your class/spec powers suck. Or you didn't get a chance to choose anything because you got bad RNG. You can't really predict what powers you will get later. There really is no such thing as a "build" you choose given powers you actually are offered are RNG. A build is predicated upon player agency and being actually able to choose. I have done many torghast runs and I rarely get any complementary powers.
If you are a pet class, there's also a boss that will one shot your pet regardless of any self-healing, forcing you into an endless loop of resummons and zero damage. One boss has an enrage you can dispel (if you have one) only for it to reapply the enrage before your dispel is off CD lol.
Some specs get powers that give them millions of health and DPS. And others? Nope.
@@josejuanandrade4439 Hey friend, you should spam the first floor of the layer you want until you get the "immolation aura refreshes its duration when it deals damage" as your first anima power. Then you just pray for "immolation aura deals 100% more damage" and you stack that one as much as possible. You also need growing inferno as a conduit. Do not refresh immolation aura or the stacks will drop. After that just pick whatever is best. I blasted through every single layer of Twisting corridors with that strat on my 213 VDH, good luck ! :)
I wish twisted corridors was endless instead of finishing a layer and then going to the other they should have let us start in layer one and continue with the powers even if it's broken imo
Twisting Corridors was endless in beta, but in the last beta builds they changed it to layers and levels, because it was boring already as hell...You don't want endless Torghast
@@thetikimax6508 If the rewards match the time you spend in a run why not, but blizzard isnt good at rewarding players to play their games, it's quite the opposite actually.
@@thetikimax6508 Is boring like this though and not even the mount gives me a reason to try to beat it. I like rogue-likes I wouldn't mind the endless mode imo
Imagine if they invested this dev time into revamping the talent system and fixing the boring broken specs...
Instead of that they created Islands v2
it really feels like this game is becoming devoid of people who actually think.
its all reactionary and the turnaround on the reactions are months
It always makes me worry when they conflate player enjoyment with player engagement. They force people into doing content like island expeditions and torgast. Then turn around and say “see guys, everyone is doing the content so it must be great”.
Unsurprising when 90 percent of Blizzard don't even play their own games any more.
@@HiddenEvilStudios where does that data point come from? I hate Torghast, but why insert unsubstantiated info?
Player enjoyment and player engagement are basically the same thing as long as Activision gets their paycheck at the end of the quarter...
@@thedailyaustin It's not official data, it's an assumption based on the strongly varying degrees of love, care and forethought that have gone into their games along the years, along with their mission statement to have their top developers focus on mobile games instead of what made them such a household name to begin with.
Case in point, outsourcing the remaster of one of their greatest accomplishments - namely Warcraft III - to some crappy third-hand studio in Malaysia or whatever it was.
I played bfa every day for 4+ hours, did less than 10 islands over the whole expansion, didn't even notice that i was missing something. Those who say blizzard forced them to do islands are either top players or tasteless zoomers who have no goal in the game and do whatever the game tells them to.
They need to fix loot drops and soul ash. The game feel like a 2nd job
The games what you make it, it's not their fault you want to do Everything to get it all. I wouldn't think that would be easy.
@@Ayuima69 ignorant comment... Tower is boring, I have yet to touch TC. Loot drop suck. I done 10/10 reg CN and didn't get a single drop. Mythic+ you go countless runs and still get nothing. This is not my opinion, it by a large amount of playerbase. There more people pvping than pve because it the best way to get gear.
@FoorTwelfthDee I'm enjoying it, just balance is where they fall short. Classes etc etc just waiting for next mmo to come out
@@Ayuima69 yup, you're right. That's why after not playing for 3 weeks, I canceled my sub again.
@@elkitesaga999 nah. loot is better than its been in forever. i wont say anything on torghast thats pretty subjective, but the loot is absolutely fine. loot is supposed to be rare. and with the vault you have plenty of chances to gear your character. now maybe you are supper ungodly unlucky, but me and my friends consider this system more than fair.
All your suggestions have one problem, they would result in Torghast possibly becoming something players would do more than raiding and Blizz can't break out of this simple algorithm they've made for themselves. To Blizz its "do X, Y and Z for player power then raid", anything outside of that can't really exist.
I’m just not feeling this expansion so far. I do love where my brewmaster monk is but running countless dungeons with no gear, the systems and 35 anima etc just burn me out quick. As well as the soul ash
The answer on what happened is short and simple. They accidentally made a really good system, tried to overstuff it and make it overly important, while at the same time wanted to change it so that way players wouldn't be given a game mode that would de-incentivize them from grinding gear for the main game, which would be raiding and such. After all, why would the vast amount of casuals like myself spend hundreds of arguably fruitless hours raiding and dungeoning to chase that ilvl, to try and see those big flashy class based numbers, when I could just go to the local friendly roguelike that let's me get to that insanely powerful point in less than a half an hour. All that would have accomplished in their eyes, I personally believe with all my cynical being, is cost them the longevity of people's wow subscription.
Indeed
They broke it because e-sports people yelled at them. Real money is there, more than subs. No one wants to drink gallons of red bull doing world first mythic progression 16 hours a day while the casual player can reach 220 ilvl grinding Torghast for 2 days at their own pace. This game is not for casual players anymore since a long time now, last time i remembered i got in a PUG for heroic raid with no RIO and stuff was in Lich King.
Every time i wanna level an alt i remember "I will have to do torghast", so i dont level an alt and get bored on my main so i dont think i will even resub.
You don't have to do anything.
same here.. i enjoy the raid and dungeons. Just the idea i have to do dailies, tower and world quests on an alt kills it for me. sad man...
@@smokingowly3607 You don't have to do it any more than you need to running M+ keys 24/7 to get more chances at loot, or farming gold so you can buy a BoE. The question simply whether it's fun and rewarding. I'd say it still could be pretty fun but that tapered off when the difficulty levels capped at 8 in addition to getting nerfed. Even as a rogue, now it's not that exciting. Twisted corridors is pretty tough but the rewards leave it feeling like a waste of time.
I'd love to see some class or spec-specific rewards (cosmetic, novel, QoL) for completing super high levels solo. It would reward players in a disadvantaged spec to give them something unique for their efforts. There really should be something to work for in there that's distinctly prestigious as the only difficult solo content in the game, where players could be recognized similar to IO score. That and some more variety in environments in future patches would be great.
I feel the same
@@Fleshbag453 really? That’s one of the main things I like about alts 🤔 lol
I loved it. Then the twisting corridors came out, got to the final boss on the first layer and as I didn't have the correct build to kill it. I had wasted 3 hours of my life. I haven't played the game since.
this
Did this as well on one of my chars as balance druid - Then I went as tank - and ran right through the first 4 layers.. ridiculous...
I don't get this, I managed to do all 18 floors of layer 1 in around 50 minutes max.
@@FuzevSponge some people are just ultra casual.
Bro maybe consider U dont play nearly AS good your class could be 3 HRS 1 layer ? Wirth what 180 ilvl?
I only do torghast for the soul ash and legendary... I can live without it. As a matter of fact they can remove it and I’ll still be fine
I fucking love Torghast and couldn't figure out why everyone hates it so much, then I hopped off my Brewmaster main to an alt and learned why
"less than ideal" it's straight garbage. I get bored easily in it and it straight up feels like another chore.
YES! One layer of TC can take an entire evening with barely any breaks because you might be hunted by something that will attack you out of combat or your soul is slowly burning - that means no bathroom breaks or chilling in Torghast - it has to be a huge time investment (see: time sink), even the regular ones, that just aren't very fun compared to what was seen on the Alpha... I mean even roguelikes have a pause screen
Layer 1 week 1 was fun. Then I walked into layer 2 and realized what Choreghast really was.
What happened? Well like all features Blizzard starts off with an idea that has huge promise, but then they half ass it and are surprised later when it gets stale.
About a week or two ago I suddenly realized I had the same boring grinds hanging over my head every week and just stopped playing. Unsubscribed even.
Man i cant stand torghast, a few of my friends stopped playing because they felt forced to do it and absolutely disliked that content
Same - I had our main healer quit because her legendary was 4 weeks out from worldbosses and grouping was shit in torghast... So she felt stuck... So she bought a ps5 and we havn't seen her since.
I did thorgast for the legendaries and now for the pet, its only the first tiers
I cant even imagine going up higher
And for what? a maw mount ? that place is EVEN SHITTIER than thorghast
I left for similar reasons.
@@buhg1 Funny is you can do well without a legendary, or atleast craft some other legendary, can't be completely useless. But i get the point, but quitting over it. nawww, thats not a raider then. :D
A big reason why I can’t bring myself to do alts
I hate this place , it's as pointless as the maw and equally unrewarding.
As Blizzard said before: Torghast isn't meant to be rewarding outside of Soulash.
It's meant to be a fun and challenging place with repeatable content that changes everytime.
Yet imo they need to add more powers and different layers to make it more complex and interesting. Also: Zelda-esk puzzles!
Guess what? No one is forcing you to do it
@@dmbuff5118 are you stupid? you HAVE to do torghast to get legendaries to be even remotely viable in any type of content...
@@dmbuff5118 Most pointless and stupid comment of the day award has been spoken for ladies and gentlemen!
Someone here hasn't heard of legendaries in shadowlands.
@@dmbuff5118 What's your point? It's only legitimate to complain about the rewards and enjoyability of content that you're "forced" to do? You're not forced to do anything in this game, you could roll a level 1 human and just do laps around Northshire Abbey if you wanted to. It wouldn't be fun, and neither is Torghast in its current iteration.
I literally cannot remember the last time blizzard was right on the money with what they released - patch, game, expansion, or otherwise.
5.3 was the last patch I can remember being really solid, the Isle of Thunder patch in MoP was beautiful; the weekly story based progression on the island and the storyline felt great, you as a player actually felt like you were making an impact in the story, the writing was actually pretty solid for the patch, and MoP pvp was just top tier.
the artifact system in legion was interesting when they reduced the ridiculous amount of grind. Other than that i would say you'd have to got back as far as WotLK or cataclysm.
I never thought i'd say this, but after doing my weekly choreghast today I retalised that i'd rather do islands.
Islands were shit from beginning to end at least torghast have potential
Burned out on torghast, just cant be arsed to do it anymore
It's too long. Some of us have jobs and kids. I wish it had checkpoints and that you could come back multiple times a week. Plus what if you got some small rewards every few floors?
Simply letting it save at every rest floor would solve a lot of issues.
Exactly. Honestly I'd be fine with it if it had that. 6 floors was bad enough without a save point, but even with a group twisting corridors took hours this weekend for our guild group
The minimum I'd ask for is a save after every 6 floors, i.e. Each wing
It takes hours which I don’t have
valid argument, except if you werent spending hours in Torghast you'd be spending hours somewhere else in game. So you do have them.
@@chryomadzz4360 That's one hell of an assumption that you've made there.
Imagine playing mmos when you dont have time
@@madlinkers8595 imagine having a real life
@@madlinkers8595 Time is relative.
You kept asking for "More, more, more, more, more" but with your accent Blizzard just heard "Maw, maw, maw, maw, maw".
As a casual player I can’t spend five or six hours a couple times a week without taking a break. 6 to 8 floors was perfect. At least from my play style
Every two floors you complete unlock a random transmog piece, or pet you don't have. Blizzard doesn't even need to go crazy creating just new rewards when they can create a carousel of options curated from the entirety of the game's history.
This would kill the farming community
@@lois87 that's a good point, I didn't even stop to think about it.
The big thing with torghast is there’s not a whole lot of choice which is a byproduct of making it mandatory for soul ash... when you make things mandatory you have to make things easy enough that all classes can do it
It’s not that easy though. I’d love if I could breeze through. Let’s say the beginning is super difficult and then you turn to a god would be fun for me
I know it's a meme but everything about Torghast screams to me that Blizzard really does not want players to have fun and to step outside the bounds of their narrow-minded design. They have a dictatorial approach to game design that's been killing the game for years with their stubbornness, slowness to respond, and just unwillingness to back down on issues that a huge number of people are complaining about.
The only way Torghast will become bearable for me personally if it remains mandatory, is if they just double or triple the number of powers you're getting in regular ash runs. I don't ever wanna have a miserable run that turns into a 40-minute slog because I got shit powers, it is completely out of my hands and there is 0 enjoyment in that. I don't care how core that is to the spirit of roguelikes, WoW ain't one.
"Fun detected...fun removed"
This is Blizzard.
what happened?
"N**** did I just catch you havin' fun?!?! **SLAP**" - Mista Hazziruckus
I do Torghast once I've had enough of watching grass grow and paint drying.
i logged in, cleared my mission table, was about to do torghast... then figured i'd enjoy fishing in classic more as i could chat with friends and potentially jump into PUG/GDKP raid if something came up. FISHING > yet another torghast run.
I would really like to be able to get my weekly soul ash in Twisting Corridors. That would mean I would eventually reach level 8 and get my mount (in a month or so). Now I do my two 6 layer wings each week, which takes like 2 hours. After that mandatory grind, I look at Twisting Corridors and it's 10 hour grind, and decide to do something else. Even if it is kinda fun, I will not spend 10 hours to get a mount.
Now if I could get my weekly capped soul ash from doing one Twisting Corridors, I would definitely prefer to do that each week, getting soul ash and working toward the mount. To engagement metrics it would be the same, as doing 1 Twisting Corridors takes about as much time as doing the 2 wings each week for me.
Also, please allow alts to skip to maximum difficulty in the wings, so tedious doing them one by one to get 40 soul ash each floor on an alt for the first time.
I've already benched two of my alts because I just can't be arsed punishing myself by setting aside time to run Torghast on multiple characters every week, I find it super boring
Every time you make a video I like you more and more. This is exactly the problem I have with thorgasts. I never really found it very difficult as a Mythic raider, but I do 100% wish I had more options than the 2 or 3 playable builds per character we have. I would have loved to see more pets/transmogs as well from this too.
i literally just do the bare minimum of Torghast now cause ill eventually need the soul ash if i get a new legendary
I've given up on the Maw, the towers, everything. I just can't be assed man. I was excited for all of this until I had to do it in a group and couldn't do it myself. I'm a solo player, for now, until I find a group, and have been tanking Torghast and am sick and tired of the toxicity of the player base. I either move too quick or too slow, or can't keep everything's attention, or some other excuse and it's getting tired. I just want to do my run solo and be done with it.
The Maw is the most MIND NUMBING BORING garbage I've ever done. Yes I know I should be getting rep with Ve'nari, and should be getting the currency and doing it daily, but Jesus Christ... there's only so much I can do in one day. Between Callings, Anima gathering, the weekly Soul Ash, The weekly run 1 Mythic+ and/or kill at least 3 bosses in Castle Nathria (which I have to do LFR as my guild fell apart years ago), and renown, and covenent quests, and blah blah blah! Sure, I like having a variety of things to do, but at the same time, a lot of it is mandatory to keep up to date on your character. I can't imagine even attempting to level my alts up to do anything with them. I have enough to do on my main, I don't need to double it, or triple it. There's a fine line between having nothing to do, and having too much to do.
you sound like someone who grey parses in normal raids. Nobody wants to play with you, they arent toxic, they are just normal humans, not a weirdo like you.
@@Diavolo222 interesting. Thanks a bunch for proving my point of the toxicity of the player base. I'm so happy to know there's a sect of people within the game that like to come into comment sections of WoW videos, make judgements based on someone's opinion and call them names without ever interacting with them.
You know, it's pretty neat that you have the time and the group to do all the "major" content while I, a player of 16 years, have a family, had a guild that fell apart because we're all family people, and cannot devote the time you may be able to the game. It's also nice to know that I'm "weird" for prioritizing my family commitments over a game. You stay classy random person on the internet!
@@Diavolo222 You sound like an ass
I just lost 2 and half fucking hours 18th floor at layer 8 only to get one shotted with defensive up against unavoidable AOE.....im getting real tired
i needed 100% uptime evasion :C one melee and i'm dead for last boss
Yeah that one caster boss that shoots the red shit at you is deadly.
Ezy, just finished it.
Join
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If you dont do torghast your class is shit, simple. I'm all for this legendary system but not like this.
It's as mandatory as mandatory gets in Wow, but there'll always be douchebags with "dON't dO iT ThEn" and claiming it's side, optional content.
Legendaries are a "forced" system. It's at the forefront of crafting, a main selling point of the expansion. No, you aren't required to use them, but you get powers through regular gameplay, and in some perspectives it forces players to farm soul ash, buy the base items, and craft their legendary. The bad taste comes even further from the increased cost overall, spec swapping, or even rerolling.
Some quick alt maths for anyone interested. Taking out the shop floor and including the boss floor your alts need to run 45 floors of torghast to catch up.
In addition you will be doing rescue runs about 3 of these and possibly additional ones if you need to collect info outside of a soul ash run.
We are now at a minimum of 60 floors of torghast on an alt.
I wish anima cells were red again, the black/grey color is harder to see.
They ruined torghast. Instead of a optional thing that you do for fun till the point you can & infinite retries to have fun, get better in a chill maner.
You get time gated shit with layers, each layer has levels & those levels has floors. Never mind that you need to do this & you are forced... it's pure shit.
Blizzard can't get it through their heads that in MMOs players like carving their own paths or having optional things they can do in which the fun is their own reward, they're obsessed with developing systems that push participation statistics to very high numbers for every type of content in the game.
Yes, I have no clue when they decided to add layers... It seems like they were riding on player goodwill and just gradually implementing weird time gating and odd caps and limits to increase the time players spend in the game...
stopped retail as soon as realised this torghast and daily q bullshit.
You. Are. Not. Forced.
You. Do. Not. Need. To. Do. Torghast.
Stop with that mentality, jfc.
@@MrJesuisOMG Yeah, if you don't want to be able to craft your legendary and don't want to progress your character's power, you don't need to do it in the same way that you don't need to do dungeons, pvp, or raid content. Pretty much everyone who is playing the game, even in a casual raid environment, is going to want a legendary. Even hyper-casual players who don't do m+, raid, or rated pvp want their legendaries since it's soloable content and is something they can work towards.
Such an underutilised piece of content it's criminal.
I just want to be super strong, roll over the bosses and get out
This is why I only do level 3. I can't be bothered with that shit hole. 6 levels is too much. At lvl 3 I can stealth to the boss, kill, rinse and repeat on the next level.
In alpha and beta you weren't making actual progress outside of Torghast that would continue after those were over. Torghast works a lot better in a sandbox setting because outside of that, it feels more like a chore that we >have< to do rather than a fun novelty that we can do if we want, but don't need to.
As a returning player I had high hopes and I had a really good time... for about 2 runs :\
Torghast, nice skills but no loot = makes it not fun or useless. LOOT MATTERS. Would anyone go raiding if nothing would drop? Only once.
This is beyond true. Buddies guild has quit because of how bad loot in raids has been this xpac
i'd like to have a chat with the person that came to the conclusion that loot shortage would make retail more like vanilla wow.
@@brianfalcon9016 loot shortage works in classic but not in shadowlands where every piece has the same stamina main stat and 2 secondary stats
I don’t know what happened, they probably tried to deliver too much in the time they had, but Torghast and the Maw seriously missed the mark.
If there were other ways to get soul ash I wouldn’t set foot in either of them again.
I still like Torghast, maybe because I had an easier time with it as a Demo Warlock and I do it with a friend (BM Hunter) while we’re on comms, but on the Twisting Corridors, and specially on higher layers it feels like total shit, mobs take a good time to kill my pet but then just one shot me out of nowhere, even stacking stats like versatility, having multiple damage reduction cooldowns stacked (Ex: The anima power that reduces your damage taken by 50% for 10 seconds once you use Demonic Circle + Unending Resolve - Which is -40% damage taken for 8 seconds)
Sometimes mobs (specially Mort’regar shadows) one shot my pet (without the third hit buff) and my pet immediately respawns at 10% health without all the anima powers I put into it and dies again and again and keeps respawning at same 10% health.
The scaling gets wacky, mobs that were doing a normal amount of damage in the last floor suddenly one shot you
Sometimes mobs that you haven’t interacted with at the other side of the room get aggroed
My pet loses their anima powers when I take the portals in Mort’regar, or the ropes
The Mawsworn aoe in Coldheart Interstitial one shots my pet even if I’m not standing on it
On Skoldus Halls sometimes they have an anima power you can’t get to and that feels terrible
There is a dire need for more anima powers to be in Torghast as you get 100 or so anima powers in Twisting Corridors and those are all there are available for your spec or class
I feel locked in one spec because it takes a huge load of time to get enough soul ash to craft a rank 4 legendary, twisting corridors has little cosmetic rewards (4 if I’m not mistaken) which means doing 4 of those 8 layers feels absolutely pointless.
Overall, they really need to take a look at balancing the place, creating more environments and layers to make it more interesting, keep adding events like Beasts of Prodigum, many, many more anima powers, and give more cosmetic rewards. That’s why I feel like at least
Give us anima as well as the phantasma and its solved.
1000 anima per 6 floor and people can get cosmetic stuff from their covenants.
Also make soul ash obtainable elsewhere as well as in torghast...
I wish they didn't cap so many of the powers, and I wish getting a power leaned the system more towards giving you related ones. Some of the most fun you can have is with the powers that do let you stack them, so why stop the others? It's a for-fun, RNG mode anyway, so let people have fun with RNG bullshit.
The worst part of Torghast is playing alts, no-one wants to level an alt and then wait 1-2 weeks, plus like 10 runs of boring same same content. An easy fix is to just add soul ash as a reward to the great vault, much like BFA's residuum. Obviously Torghast as a whole still needs to be changed, moving away from mandatory content is what the people want.
As a mage I find the soul forges and other caster based areas really hard, being unable to kite. Also there are way too many mawrat related anima powers and as night fae, way too many soulshape and shifting power anima powers.
Unable to kite? You have a frost spec?
Mort'regar as frost mage... Nice idea by Blizz to make a spec based around kiting, and then have literally everything have teleports to you that even bypass the anima power that prevents you from being targeted. On the other hand, something where you can kite like Skoldus is really easy outside of bosses.
They really should make the wings more balanced. But well, could start with the classes.
@@Ayuima69 can't kite the casters
Things to add:
1. LOADS of more powers
2. A challenge system similar to Masks in Horrific Visions
3. A timed mode
4. New floors/wings
5. Lots of cosmetic rewards (armor sets, weapon transmogs, more mounts, pets, toys, titles etc.)
6. A save system for the Twisting corridors
7. A new, farmable currency for cosmetic rewards.
8. Fixing class balancing
9. A proper infinite mode w/ leaderboard?
10. Actual optionality
I could spend hours in Torghast as is, since monotonous grinding tickles some part of me. However, based on feedback of others and the fact that such a grind isn't for everyone, I think these would retain the gameplay I enjoy, while fixing the faults that turn others away from it.
thank you for summing it up. you hit it on the head and vented what alot of us feel
I stopped liking Torghast when I felt like I was "behind".
as a mage i do feel like im looking for powers. because 70% of them are shit
Pretty much the same for me on my Warlock. There is one specific pet power that I hope to have drop, and early on the floors, or I am kinda hosed for the end boss.
Just level your pet for that 50% damage when reached critical health. If you play defensively and let your pet agro your pet one shots. Pray you get the one that increase fireball damage and you three tap smaller things
@@robertct06 wl get tha 100%hp and dmg for pet everyfloor
I'm reluctantly doing my two runs a week for Soul Ash, but i would skip it entirely if I could. I was bored of it after week one.
My Husband and I love it! It reminds us of running mini dungeons.
The part of visions in BFA i liked the most was when you had that 'external' progression, where you could go further and further with every run. So I think you hit the nail on the head in regards to Torghast needing some sort of progression outside of each individual instance.
give us an infinite torghast that gives weekly reward based on achieved floor
When I heard about it this is what i thought it was like. I still wish it was.
It's just not fun or rewarding. It's not something that i look forward to doing every week. It really should be called Choreghast. The worst time sync for nothing ratio to date! At least Blizzard's share holders should be happy. I guess that matters most at the end of the day.. or quarter
ummm i definitely dont want a timer on torghast, adding more content because you do it faster adds a forced timer.
I feel like the entire game design philosophy for Shadowlands was to keep every activity at like 30-60 minute bites. They literally took the fucking story campaign for each zone, and replaced it with world quests, then sliced up the main story into weekly chunks... Like, as someone trying to level alts, there is literally no way for me to just sit down for a day and like, do a zone, because in order to access any of the story, I need to do the fucking weekly grind to get Renown with a covenant, which I can only do at max level anyway. Literally any activity beyond the initially linear story you can do in Shadowlands is "hey, do you wanna spend an hour running around in this area, doing random world quests?"
I quit the game because of Torghast and M+. As a somewhat casual player I just can't bring myself to play the game when two of the major systems feel like they're specifically designed to waste my time.