Old Vs New Webley & Scott
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- Опубликовано: 16 авг 2022
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I think I understand your gripe, you think that the modern companies are profiteering from the old names and brands. Just because the gun is now manufactured elsewhere does not mean it's going to be rubbish. I imagine that the current owners of W&S go to great lengths to make the best product they can and don't use the name to pass shoddy goods as original, hand built pieces.
My current gun of choice is a Webley & Scott 912 XS. I was under no illusions when I bought it, I knew it was a Turkish gun. Webley clearly state designed in UK made in Turkey. It seems solidly made, has proven to be reliable and more importantly I hit more clays with it than my Silver Pigeon. I don't see an issue.
Excellent level headed reply
Great comment and thank you for your comment. Thanks TSC Team.
I've never shot a Webley shot gun, but I did have an old 1970's Webley junior air rifle and then a 1981 Webley Jaguar. Both well made and accurate guns. It's a shame they went bust.
Hey there I love my Webley and Scott 🏆🏆its 80 years old and I never miss a partridge with it
It has prince of Wales grip and is 30 inch and is very light
Its just perfect 🤠
For what it's worth, I have worked in Toolrooms all my working career, I am totally experienced in every aspect of precision mechanical engineering. I can tell you for sure that no man with a file, or manually working a milling machine, lathe, nor emery cloth wrapped round a lapping stick or grinder can work as accurately as a CNC machine nor design with the detail of a cad/cam. The gun trade died because of snobbery and greed.
I've been an engineer for 50 years and i still have to scrape in slideways and bearings, even a micron out at one end can cause a gap at the other, i can remove that gap.
I have the greatest respect for your skills but it is not possible to scrape to a tolerance of one thousandth of a millimetre. The surface finish that you generate massively exceeds one micron.
So true, the gun trade in the UK is a niche market, because of this snobbery.
@@raydavies7328 It's making the two surfaces meet, we wouldn't still be doing it if it wasn't necessary, i'm not saying it's within one micron i used it as an example that if it was just out by that amount one end, by the time you got the the other end of a large slide way a feeler gage can be slid in, it's most noticeable when products are hinged, if you blue up one surface it rarely transfers to the other, CNC machines are often out, i've spent hours setting up heads that have taken a knock, leadscrew bearings are a pain in the ass, we have a thing called dropping a bit, basically there's no explanation on why the machine is doing what it's doing, Belview washers cracking and the tools not as held in the head as it should be, etc, etc don't get me wrong it's much easier than using an old Bridgeport though i do love them, it then comes down to QC, you don't have that with an hand made gun everyone working on it is doing it and each gun is scrutinized, look at the fit and finish of a mass-produced gun to a hand made.
@@jamesl949 Could you expand on that.
Yes, i agree i have a 700 made in 1966, perfect, 30 in barrels, tight as a drum,
My first gun in 1975 bought by my uncle for me who had a farm was a 12b SB Webley & Scott with 30" barrel half choke in 2 3/4".
I learned to shoot with it. Birmingham has a long history of gun making. I had a couple of webley air rifles too.
I don't support the idea of well known names being put on mass produced guns.
My first ever shot as a young boy of a 12bore was a single barrel semi hammer webley & Scott. A sawn off bunny basher snap shot gun. 1/2 longer than the min barrel length 24 1/2inch i think.
I have two W&S Birmingham shotguns in 12 gauge. One was imported to the U.S. by Service Armament (AKA Navy Arms) and the other is original Birmingham. I believer they are model 700's or perhaps a previous version. I also have a W & C Scott in 20 gauge, also Birmingham. If I ever make it "across the pond" they are what I'll bring.
Great review David, Its a bit like Browning selling the Medallist isn't it .👍🏻👍🏻
Great video, I wonder how many gun manufacturers are actually left in the UK, never owned a English gun, primarily because of the price 😕
I believe that there is only two old gunmakers that have done the “Continental Range” the right way are William Evans of London, and William Powell formerly of Birmingham now of Banbury. They both retails quality Italian over unders and William Evans still retails Grulla-Armas side by sides while William Powell’s side by side changed suppliers from Arrieta so they are selling the side by sides built by Rizzini. While other gunmakers like Webley & Scott, Cogswell & Harrison, and E. J. Churchill who either is flogging a cheap gun or over pricing them.
Thanks for your great comment and it would be great to meet you some time Thanks TSC Team.
@@TSCTheshootingchannel That would be nice, but I would have to wait at least 14 months because I’m sixteen years old and live in America.
I have a Webley 700 16g, quite plain but very well made and handles beautifully. I’ve handled a newish W&S o/u, cheap gun that’s built to a price and shows it, definitely not a true W & S.
Love my English Webley 700 12bore and my bolt action .410, would not consider the foreign made ones as already looked at the bad reviews on them.
Hello TSC, I totally agree that English guns and English companies should be kept in England.
Purdey is Swiss owned, just saying.
Yeah we been saying the same thing in America. Companies are still gonna outsource Labor. I live in central Texas… shouldn’t be hard to have a custom western saddle made here you’d expect right? WRONG! Took me 6 months of calling around to “custom” saddle makers form Montana to the Brownsville on the Mexican border. Finally found a gentleman who was a superb craftsman here in Texas. Good quality artisan work is just falling out of style for mass produced Chinese garbage.
I Brought My Son An Webley & Scott in 20G For His 16th Birthday ( 5 yrs ago ) What A Mistake He Had Nothing But Firing Issues It Was Sent Back For Repair 3 Times In Total
& Each Time It Came Back Still With The Same Issues !! Had A Refund !!!
I concur
It was made by Bettinsoli, thought you liked them 😂
Its what used to be called “Badge Engineering”. It somehow comes across as dishonest and manipulative marketing instead of proudly standing behind your own product and celebrating it for what it is. Be that a cheap, mass produced foreign gun that has you marvelling at how little it costs, or a British hand made marvel that has you in raptures over the quality.
What’s ironic about it all is that a massive amount of all English guns from all makers were W&S just with a different name on them!
I agree with you completely. I think it is a terrible shame when companies dig up old names to make a quick buck from a formerly prestigious name.
It happens in all kinds of industries; from funeral directors to car manufacturers.
What shotgun can you buy today That is a side-by-side built like an over and under? That sounds like something I would like.
should be made with the same quality as the original not the cheapest factory that will do them, there is a marked difference even though they have the same name
Webley are now re making the service revolver in India under license. I regret not buying a webley SXS recently it was a very plain but well built gun it’s a great ashame we don’t make affordable english guns that people can afford on a average wage.
No they are not they are cheap nasty sub standard knock off,s Webley went bust.Your not buying new Webley products but just cheap crap save your money!
@@tonyashton780 the rebranded shotguns are spilt between italy bettinsoli and who ever makes the real cheap stuff you didn’t read what i said they re making the webley service revolver in India the Indians have a reputation for making military small arms they use to make rifles for the British army
@@dave_724 Appreciated bud it was more of a whinge at the loss of Webley & Scott and shite Turkish re branding.Being a traditionalist I just personally love Birmingham guns.I am still hunting for a mint boxed Webley Omega Carbine in .22 no luck over last two years the hunt continues.I know where your coming from I am just a loyal old Webley nut!.All the best stay safe cheers.Tony
@@dave_724 yes, that sounds right. I believe that all the ‘1000’ series Webley and Scott’s (like the 1012 in this video) are built by Bettensoli. I believe all the ‘900’ series are built in Turkey, not sure by who
@@tonyashton780 couldn’t agree more with the rebranding the webley airguns aren’t what they where when they where made in birmingham the quality is hit and miss there actually a kral rebranded the PCP stuff is ok but i wouldn’t touch a webley spring piston airgun now
Absolutely right David.
Just putting a prestige name on a gun, does not make it a prestige gun!
It is dishonest, and does nothing but disrespect the true manufacturer.
Would you buy a Purdy that was not made by Purdy in London, and which could not show its true provenance?
Buyer beware!
So Bettinsoli a Good gunmaker from italy make the 1000 series. And the 900 series are under licence from turkish made company
So I would be best to spend that money on a decent second hand Beretta 680 series or myroku sp 6000
if they last 100 years it dosnt matter but we know the quickly and cheaply made ones won't work in 100 years where as the hand fitted one most likely will.
It’s name recognition….
If the quality is of equal standard then country of origin or name of manufacturer is irrelevant. Take Rolls Royce, always had issues from the 70s bought by BMW couple decades later now it’s superior in everyway than the original..
Webley today =Turkish junk!
I like the new into music
As a past owner of an old English gun company back in the 1980s, I agree. Just sourcing abroad and putting an English name on is pointless. They should use their own name and take pride in thier own work. Made in England or Relabeled in England?
I follow you a lot and for the first time I thought to myself WTF! Webley and Scott (no matter who bought the name) just like other manufacturers that have gone overseas for production build to a certain spec to suit price points. Buying a well established name is not a crime nor does it mean the product manufactured isn't worthy of the name. Sometimes yes it can be a complete failure but I personally think they are doing a great job. Webley and Scott have evolved more than once over the years and this is just another step. I do agree that they should stop saying they have been producing guns since 1790 because the new company has not but they don't hide where these guns come from either. The higher end from Italy, the others from Turkey. They are quite open about it so you do know where they come from. Your channel praises Turkey for quality shot guns that come out of there so why is this any different? If you are narrow minded and can't look past the fact that Webley and Scott is a name that was bought over and only exists today because it was, then you will miss out on some quality guns at really affordable prices. This video would have made way more sense if you shot the gun and faulted it for inferior quality and gave examples of why the new product isn't worthy of the name. As it is this is a silly video. Bu....t your others are great.
we have this shameful and misleading practice in the US too. just call it what it is.........
Completely disagree.
I own both a w&s 700 and 1012. The 700 series was a cheap, box lock. The 1012 is a cheap box lock.
What is an English Gun? No gun is as English as the 700 series was, even Purdey import their stocks from Turkey and the company is not English it is owned by the Swiss. We look around the various English gun makers, barrels and other parts are imported. And many "quality" gun makers have continental ranges and charge the customer a fortune to have there name on the action.
The W&S 1012 is a honest, quality, cheap gun, designed to British tastes and the company is British owned. Most reviews regard it as the best sub 1k gun. Unfortunately TSC seems rare ill informed, suggesting it origins are unknown.
The W&S 1012 gun is made by Bettinsoli in Italy and this channel always tells us Bettinsoli shotguns are worth twice their value and are exceptionally well made guns "Italys best kept secret".
There is a place is the market for all types of British Guns, let's stop being such gun snobs.
I love my English W&S 700 and my W&S 1012. At the end of the day 95% of shooting skill is the shot not the gun.
Love the channel just to say it's outrageous to see Webley & Scott,s named used on Turkish inferior junk both shotguns firearms and air rifles they are NOT WEBLEY,S!,just marketing tosh.Same with pellets it's a total con and in my opinion a miss use of the Webley brand.Turkish guns are just not upto our standards your going to be disappointed further down the road.Shame really interesting though take care.Tony
The W&S 1012 in this video is Italian not Turkish, it is made by Bettinsoli to W&S English Spec. Tony is usually a big fan of Bettinsoli shotguns. Please try to be factually correct.
@@jamesl949 Bettinsoli shotguns are ok but again and I know it's a price issue I'd sooner buy a Beretta.
@@tonyashton780 I have shot both, and prefer, Bettinsoli (and W&S1000 series), to a bottom of the range Beretta (which is still much more money). But each to their own.
@@jamesl949 I have to use a semi auto due to chest/shoulder issues (heart/age).Mostly shoot vermin and occasionally a round of sporting so Beretta and Browning in 12 and 20 guage are ok for me.Everyone has their own preferences.Softer recoil for me is huge bonus and a good friend made me a cherry wood antler stick with magnetic end cap so no bending for spent ammo.These are the semi auto,s I have owned,
Beretta Tekny,s
Browning Gold Hunter (Part ex)
Winchester 1400 (Broke mag cap/tube)
Remington 1100 (Part ex )
Benelli Montefeltro (Hard recoil as inertia)
Hatsan Escort (Broke)
Winchester X (Faulty)
Cheers for input and views always interesting on other takes people have.Tony
@@jamesl949 If money was no object I would love a 20 guage 3" sst ejector m/c teague 28" barrels and 15" lop (6,3 & overweight).A Fausti or Berretta.Need deep pockets and eventually end up on Eley eco cartridges or hevi shot ammo?.We can all dream bud.All the best Tony
I agree. A gun with the name of a British Manufacturer should be made in Britain.
To be a English gun should be a least 50% made in England.
No brand appeal if made in Turkey or Spain with a old English brand name ie W&S, BSA.
These guns have poor resale value, the Yildiz Pro sell for 60% of retail price on the used market.
I mistakenly thought this was a review not an opinionated waffle.