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Rachel should be number 1 here, on this list! She was an awful human being, just as Hugh Laurie's character on the plane said in the famous scene. Ross NEVER cheated on her and always loved her, but all Rachel did was play with his feelings and heart. First, she couldn't forgive him even tho he didn't do anything wrong - she did break up with him, period. And then she insulted, and ruined Julie, Bonnie, Emily, and the girl from the shop, she had the same modus operandi when it came to hurting all of Ross's girlfriends, so throwing ugly slurs at them behind their back, manipulating Ross so his relationship with them would fall apart, ruin their hair/appearance, and literally kiss and go after Ross when he was with them! She was the one who started to flirt with Ross at the beach house when Ross was with Bonnie, and she didn't care at all that Ross had a girlfriend, the same was with Julie - Rachel kissed Ross when he was Julie, so you can all miss me with your crying about 'poor Rachel' when she was supposedly 'cheated on' (no, she wasn't; again - she broke up with Ross before he got drunk and slept with Chloe). Rachel was the one who didn't care if she destroyed other people's relationships for her own selfish reasons, she didn't care if the guy cheated on other women with her, so why she is constantly presented as the victim? She wasn't. She ran after Ross all the time, sabotaging all his other relationships, then she rejected him, and she repeated this process over and over, she just played with his heart 24/7!! She constantly lied - like when she blamed the Vegas wedding on Ross, yet only at the end when Ross brought her divorce papers, she admitted it was all her idea and she wasn't that drunk then. Yet she attacked Ross earlier because of this marriage 24/7, and she didn't say a word it was literally her idea in the finest place! She constantly mocked and attacked Ross, his job, and his love life, she NEVER took responsibility for her awful acts and faults! Rachel was a selfish, spoiled, manipulative, hypocritical narcissist and eternally immature, spoiled, rich daddy girl, and human with an ugly soul, period!
Rachel was the most toxic, manipulative, cruel, and selfish female character ever on TV, she beats Carrie by 1000000000000000000000 points! I love (sarcasm) how Rachel fans, this channel included, especially Rachel's female feminist fans, every time, fail to address how absolutely awful Rachel was to all the other women on the show, mostly Ross' other girlfriends, but also Monica and Phoebe at times (like when she never cared to clean the apartment and leave all work to Monica, was incredibly selfish and always stole Monica's moments because she just couldn't share the spotlight with anyone). She should be number 1 here.
Carrie is A CAUTIONARY TALE- she’s not perfect, she’s selfish and insecure. All of the girls have something wrong in them… that’s why the show worked; nobody wants to see a boring good girl.
Rory in Gilmore Girls was always a brat with a superiority complex. She treated Dean like crap and was flirty with Tristan while she dated Dean. Then flirted with Jess while dating Dean. Slept with Dean, while he was married, and tried to act like it was fine because she dated him first. Tried to use Jess to get back at Logan. And let’s not forget the Netflix movie where she couldn’t even remember her boyfriend and was screwing an engaged Logan. Rory was never actually a good person.
Yeah Rory really did end up a complete piece of shit. The last couple seasons really seemed to be oddly focused on destroying characters and making sure none of them ended up happy..... like holy fuck, couldn't you just let Luke and Lorelai be together and enjoy their lives? Even the movie still felt the need to shake them up... that movie sucked entire oceans worth of ass.
Lorelei called Rory out for kissing Dean when he got married. Rory said something to her mom about how she had him first & kept thinking "girl, you dragged two other guys along while you were dating him. He belongs to someone else!!" She made the list of hated tv characters.
Dude the follow up season really drove home the everyone gets to be miserable story drive. Except Paris. Paris ended up doing pretty great for herself.
We were never in love with Carrie, she was the absolute WORST. Cheating on Aiden while he was fixing her house, judging Samantha constantly, sending Aiden over to help Miranda then just talking about herself when she visits her with dry bagels and no cream cheese, and finally having the audacity to get angry at Charlotte for not immediately lending her money. Such a shitty, self centred person. Loved all the other characters though...
I could never get into SatC because I really dislike all 4 main characters (although Carrie was definitely the wooooorst). I guess the one benefit is that she and Big were both equally abhorrent, so by being involved with each other, they were preventing 2 other innocent souls from all of that abhorrent-ness.
I agree, I never identified with Carrie at all. I am something of a cross between Samantha and Charlotte. Carrie always seemed so irresponsible and clueless to me. She never had her shit together. In fact she is something like Anna Karenina or Scarlett O'hara. Flighty, self absorbed and completely annoying. I cheered when Anna killed herself because she FINALLY committed to something.
Alex leaving Jo via letter didn't make me hate Alex, it made me hate the showrunners for ruining 15 seasons of great character development. I was already struggling to keep watching the show at that point, but the crappy way they handled Justin Chamber's departure made up my mind.
Absolutely. 15 years of character growth & development destroyed by a horrid "I'm leaving the show, write the worst out you can pull out of your azz" jerk move.
I agree, they really screwed this up, it made absolutely no sense. I understand that they did not want to kill him off, but they could have just come up with some better and more believable ending for him.
@@bebeeblue I had stopped watching Grey's when Yang left, but a friend still watched it and kept me up to date. When she told me what they did with Alex, only seeing now they included secret twins in the mix, I was like dude just kill him off, you have no bother doing that to other characters before.
Mitchum may have been a jerk when he told Rory that she didn't have what it takes to be a serious journalist, but by the sequel series, he turned out to be completely right.
Here is the thing, it doesn't matter whether he's right or wrong. It was ONE person during an Internship that told her this. ONE. You don't switch career because of one persons opinion. Dream or not. She had already sunken so much Money and time in it and just quit because of one Person.
I was disappointed that she turned up her nose at a teaching position at Chilton. (Full disclosure: I am a teacher.) I always thought she would have been a great academic.
Gilmore Girls: Yes. Bur for me, it was when Rory missed Lorelei’s community college graduation to go to NYC and hung around with Jess all day, making her late. The height of carelessness and thoughtlessness towards a mother who only ever applauded every success her daughter had.
Oof, that Rory clip where she said "You never went to college so you wouldn't know" brought sh*t back. Lorelai gave up on going to college, in order to take responsibility over her mistake and raise Rory away from an environment that made HER childhood toxic. Giving up a hell of a lot of other things along the way as well. Every viewer with enough life experience could read between the lines and tell that Lorelai's image of her daughter was sliiightly too rose coloured. But for Rory to throw that in her mothers' face like that, was seriously painful to watch.
Watching the infamous "Buffy" scene while knowing that even James Marsters felt that it was out of character for Spike to force himself on Buffy, kind of softens the blow a little.
He hated filming that scene. Like to this day, he has trouble talking about it. He even had a clause added to his actors contract, saying he wouldn’t play rapists
Acting can be a tough gig some times.... some stories that are worth telling unfornately mean a decent person has to act in a pretty disgusting way... whether its racism, sexism, assault, etc.... its a struggle for some performers. Especially when certain morons can then not seperate those actors from the performance. Keefer Sutherland has talked before about certain fans treating him like trash because of a character he played.
What makes it harder to watch was that it felt out of character for spike after all he had done for Buffy in Season 5/6 to the point where even Buffy trusted him with Dawn's life. Thankfully he redeemed himself in the end
Fiona was expected to raise her siblings her whole life up til that point she did as good as she could. Her having a break down that whole season and spiraling into the same dark areas she often pulled her family out of. It just made me feel bad for her. The fact no one in her family seemed to stop and realize she needed help this time just made me mad. Like I know they don’t straight out express they care but the things they always end up doing for each other lets you know and Fiona did a lot more than she had too. Idk it irks me they did her dirty like that after everything she did for them they just left her to drown
Exactly. She doesn't belong to this list. She has been put into a parents role, which is abuse in itself. How was she supposed to deal with all that shit her useless father and her siblings put up upon her? I only felt sorry for her.
I agree. If anything Debbie should have been on the list not Fiona. She went from being a sweet little girl who was smart and reasonable. Helping her family and being dependable to Fiona to a self serving selfish brat. I had hopes when she had Franny she would have matured but she got worst.
@@dharris2005 omg you literally sound like those people that think everyone had plastic surgery because they grew up and don't look 14 anymore. Was she supposed to stay a pre teen girl in her script when she was a teenage girl. Have you ever met a teenage girl because they are rotten to the core. She lost portion of her foot later on so I'm sure that made you feel a lot better about a fictional character getting karma for being a teen.
Deb falling in love with Dexter was even weirder knowing that the actors had been married and were divorced by that point. So not only did they have a sister falling in love with her brother, they had a woman pretend to be in love with her ex-husband.
Carrie broke up with big because he has commitment issues and doesn't want to get married again after disgusting divorce. But when Aidan wants to marry her, she suddenly anti marriage. Lmao
Well, we all want to marry some people and not marry others, right (assuming you want to marry at all)? I think it would look hypocritical if she chased commitment with Big, but then when Big proposed she gets cold feet. That's not what happened. Being 100% in on one person and not quite sure with a different person would be true for everybody, I feel. I'm uncomfortable with how much people beat Carrie up for not wanting to marry Aiden. I've certainly loved people deeply but not wanted to marry them, it's tough but understandable, and I feel like a lot of the hate she gets for that is because of her gender, like how dare a woman turn down a man she loves who wants to marry her.
@@FishareFriendsNotFood972 i agree! Just because she loved him, doesn't mean she wanted to marry him. She did want to marry Big though. Why do people hate her for that?
@@saramathurasingh9285 Thank you! I think a lot of the hate really is people demanding all women have a beggar's mentality and just accept a man as long as he wants to commit. It's basically saying, 'if you turn down the nice guy, you deserve to get punished by the bad guys'. UGH. I feel like it has become trendy to really trash talk Carrie on the internet with newer SATC fans, but I found her sometimes messy decisions and complicated motivations to humanize her and make her sympathetic to me. Live long enough, and we all become the heartbreakers to some and the heartbroken to others. It's painful, but it's life!
It was when Rory cheated with married Dean for me. I didn't care that she left college because it felt like a normal thing people do when figuring themselves out. She grew up in a small town under a lot of pressure and being in a new environment with more to explore can be overwhelming. I completely understood that character progression. Her sleeping with Dean though was out of left field and didn't feel in line with her character or typical growing pains.
Did I miss the part where all of these men “ slept” with Rory. Men doing that are misunderstood or studs or ( you pick a word) and women doing that are ???
I didn't mean to present my statement as if I was supporting some sort of men can do what they want whilst women do the same and are villainized stance. I never had a high opinion of Dean, he was creepy, possessive, and emotionally abusive so his cheating on his wife didn't feel out of character to me. However, Rory cheating with him seemed very left-field, and I couldn't look at her the same after that.@@ivanalaff5346
The point, I believe, is that she should have shown discernment in her actions. While sleeping around is reprehensible, doing so with a married man makes the action even worse, then trying to justify said action with I knew him before her, the whole situation was not ok.
@@ivanalaff5346 Dean always sucked. No one liked Dean anyway. But Rory sleeping with him was a seriously low point for her character, both in choice of person and that he was married. And she never accepted that what she did was actually wrong. She just never took accountability for her actions. At least his marriage was ruined for his actions.
I always wondered who Justin Chambers offended to have such a horrible write-off. Even Derek got to leave a hero. But undoing all of Alex's character growth? Absolutely horrible. He deserved better.
I think it's more about how he left than anything. He was just like I'm not coming back right before they were supposed to come back after the winter break.
@@natabelova6615 I think that in both cases, the writers already had their storylines plotted out, and just didn't have the time to adjust. I remember finding out about Chambers' exit--it was right in the middle of a season. While I hadn't seen the show in years, I remember how much Alex had grown. To hear that he left Jo via a Dear Jane letter? Like, come again? I assumed that Chambers left on such short notice that they couldn't really write him out another way, other than killing him off (like they did about 20 other characters). As for Danerys, if the plot of the show was running out of time relative to the books, couldn't the writers have just worked with the author on a simplified framework on how the series should have ended? Taken the time to wrap things up in a more satisfying way? If that meant delaying the last season, breaking it up into two parts, or, well, ANYTHING other that what they gave the fans that had invested years into the series, its legacy wouldn't have taken the hit that it did.
@@melmc9672 Well, what do you think happened? She didn't want to get married to Big, then didn't want to wear an engagement ring. She goes off with the girls, kisses Aidan, confesses to Big on the phone from half the world away, and when she gets home Big basically says "You're going to marry me and you'll wear an engagement ring." Diamond black as her soul, remember?
@@stephdiaz5363It’s funny how the Carrie haters can never keep the storyline straight. She was already married to Big in the second movie where he gives her the black diamond ring at the end. I repeat, they were already married. They get married at the end of the first movie. So it didn’t go down the way you claim.
Carrie was always selfish and absolutely insufferable. The worst thing she did was stalk Natasha. I was so glad when Natasha very politely gave it with both barrels.
Phoebe Haliwell would've been on the list for me. The season four Charmed finale when, after months of fighting an internal battle with the Source inside his own body to protect her (a fight that helped keep the Charmed Ones alive), Phoebe straight up abandons Cole in limbo. Then proceeds in season 5 to treat him like the devil incarnate.
I'm watching Charmed on TV since a couple of days. Recently I saw again the episodes of and following the death of Prue. Phoebe's grieving in these episodes is a fucking joke.
THANK YOU! I’ve always thought the same. Phoebe wouldn’t last a second trying to control “The Source” in her body, and the only reason why Cole had The Source in the first place was to save her.
The Ross/rachel ‘on a break’ debate for me is hard cuz I see both sides. Rachel called it a break, and I can get how that would sound like breakup to someone. So I get that Ross thought they were broken up, and the added touch of hearing mark on the phone when talking to Rachel pushed him over and he slept with someone. But like Rachel argued, he didn’t waste time sleeping with someone else after they supposedly broke up. Whether or not they were a couple when it happened, Ross still looks bad. Either he cheated on his girlfriend, or he moved on and slept with someone else after breaking up with his girlfriend in such a short time. Instead of harping on whether or not it was cheating, he should acknowledge how he hurt Rachel and own up to it. After a while, saying ‘we were on a break’ sounds more like an excuse cuz sleeping with a random girl a couple hours after you ‘broke up’ with ur girlfriend, makes it seem like u didn’t care that much about the relationship.
I mean, yeah its super fast to be "moving on" but if he thinks Rachel is getting plowed by Mark that very night, it kind of makes sense he'd get hammered and go looking to do the same thing. Ross even makes that point to her when she says he "had a hell of a time at the wake". Ultimately the whole thing is caused by Ross' insane jealousy issues stemming from Carol cheating on him and from Rachel deciding her new job was much more important than her relationship. Honest communication could've solved it all before anything happened, but this is TV lol
If Ross truly believed that being on a break is valid to go hook up w/ someone else, then there'd be no need for him to go around trying to cover it all up. Yes, Joey & Chandler were bad influences and he claimed that he was gonna tell her the truth down the line, but all that just confirms that he knew what he did was inexcusable. Otherwise, he would've just faced Rachel and said "Look, I thought you were hooking up w/ Mark so I hooked up w/ this girl while we were on a break".
For me, I didn’t see Rachel declaring it a break. She said “maybe we should take a break” and he just said fine and hung up. It wasn’t even an actual break and it wouldn’t have happened anyway if Ross hadn’t been so insecure. Rachel was fine when she was a crappy waitress but the moment she started having a career that made her happy, he hated it. Even when Mark wasn’t around, he would act like her job was a joke or no big deal. It was very disrespectful even before the irrational jealousy kicked into full gear. I was so pissed at her for giving up Paris for him because that was her dream job and she gave it up for a guy who would never appreciate the sacrifice she made.
@@Vintage_Izy Ross also tried to gaslight Rachel by saying that she's the one who bailed and didn't fight for their relationship. As if he didn't do the same by immediately walking out after she said that they needed a break and him apparently thinking that their relationship was dead.
@@Vintage_IzyThis is actually not true. The next morning Rachel says “can I be your girlfriend again” when she met Ross at his apartment so the implication is that they were indeed broken up at that time.
I never fell out of love with Fiona. What she did in that season was crazy but we watched this character get hit with so much, you’d almost expect a mental break down and total unraveling.
Fiona was the most functional and all the parent that family ever had, but she was still a Gallagher and addiction, screw ups was in her blood, the fact the would crawl back out whatever hole she would fall or jump into makes her a wonderful character right up until she walks away
She was awful! "I'm all sweetness and light because I'm such a great pediatrician" right around a heartbroken Callie who was just recovering from being cheated on by her husband and Izzie. Then she has an accident and blames Callie for amputating her leg. And then goes and cheats on her. What an absolute wreck.
Spike was still a fan favorite. Joss put that scene in there, hoping fans would stop wanting the two to be together. But he also put it there to push Spike into fighting for his soul. Because, let's not forget Spike was soulless vampire, who surprisingly enough actually had feelings for Buffy. He was horrified by his actions. It was a pivotal moment of character growth and people still very much loved Spike. Even after this event.
Joss hated Spike at first, he was supposed to be in a couple of episodes and die, but he was so popular that the executives insisted that Spike be at least a recurring character if not a regular. He hated him to the point of physically assaulting the actor and trying to scare him away from the production since he couldn't convince the executives. But then again Joss abused a lot of people during his heyday.
@Tyfreaky13 I know Whedon once cornered James Marsters and told him that he didn’t care how popular he was, that he was dead. And he finally got to kill off Spike at the end of Buffy...only for him to come back on Angel that had to have frustrated the hell out of Whedon.
The only time Carrie was right in her relationship with Aiden was when she chose not to rush into marriage with him. I know she was horrible for him and she didn’t deserve a good guy like him. But in a way, she was right. She wasn’t loyal to him and if Aiden made her his wife, she wouldn’t have stayed for long and she would’ve sprinted after Big. As good as Aiden is, he can’t just turn a cheater and an awful person like Carrie into a loving wife. She basically did him a favor by saying no to their elopement.
What kills me the most is why the heck did Carrie chase Aiden again and begged him to take her back if she didn't wanna go the distance with him? She already knew he was a keeper and the long-relationship kind of guy.
Carrie is an addict - to cigarettes and pain of emotional unavailability. Carrie even admits this to herself when Big leaves for Paris. However, unlike the show, Candice Bushnell's SATC book ends with Carrie single and thriving.
Jess: What are you doing? Living at your grandparents' place? Being in the DAR? No Yale?! WHY did you drop out of Yale? Rory: It's complicated! Jess: It's not! It's not complicated! Rory: You don't know! Jess: This isn't you! This! You going out with this jerk, with the Porsche! We made fun of guys like this!
@@TheMarine316 other than the year they dated, the times they hooked together, when they got married and divorced, when they had a baby together… but, yeah their relationship hardly mattered in the show… 🤔😳😒 she didn’t ruin just about every relationship he was ever in- not with Julie or Emily or Mona. He cheated on her and was jealous. Not toxic, at all. 🥸🤡
I never understood how people ever thought they were THE couple on the show - it was created from Ross's obsession and Rachel's neediness. Monica and Chandler had the best relationship, ironically, from the beginning. When they hooked up and their relationship took off, it seemed like the natural progression of a great friendship.
@@mortimerbrewster3671 It's because the show focused on them as the main couple, Monica and Chandler are easily the best couple, but a big reason why the show is so successful is because of the will they wont they between Ross and Rachel, although it goes on WAY too long
The ending of GOT was a betrayal to all the fans who loved it. The writers of this last season should never be allowed to write screenplays again. Normally with series I love, I’ll rewatch. But with GOT and knowing how they ended it, I just can’t bear to watch it. I just get angry. Those two writers are arrogant, entitled, greedy jerks who ruined one of the most epic stories of all time.
Exactly.. basically threw away all of the previous years, the character building, couples, the story arcs that were destroyed, or never finished, and then having her burn the city.
Those writers were extremely luckily with George R.R Martin’s books! Without the books, this series wouldn’t have been so great but season 8 didn’t have a book to refer to cos George hadn’t written it yet … 7 years during shows run and still waiting. The writers apparently consulted George in regards to the last season but we can see the writing was convoluted and didn’t do justice to the series. The question now is will George ever write the last book/s and how he completes the series.
It's almost like you didn't watch the first seven seasons of her becoming increasingly vicious and unhinged. It will never not amaze me that people were surprised by the ending 😂
I had disliked Gilmore Girls (the show and the two women) before the original airing ended but when they came back for the four episode reunion, the cute banter and progression of the characters made me go back to the original show and realize that Loralei and Rory were ALWAYS selfish, horrible characters. They were played off as cutesy and fun but no one in their right mind would want to date them or be friends with people like them.
Totally agree. Rory gets a lot of hate but Lorelai deserves just as much. She was incredibly irritating, immature & selfish, as well as bringing up Rory to believe that they were both special & superior. Every time I watch the series I can't stand either of them, it's the other characters that make the show.
Yes. I see a lot of comments about Rory but but pretty much everyone on that show had a sour side to them. Lorelai was a very irritating person and was incompetent, Luke had anger issues and needed therapy, Jess had anger issues and had had no common decency and needed therapy just like luke. lorelais parents were just snobby rich people, Rorys dad Christopher was a deadbeat dad that try to help loreali raise her. Paris was a spoiled brat, how Suki and Jackson became a couple was stupid and borderline toxic casuse Suki was critize the food he delivered to her. Even Dean was self absorbed at times, Lanes mom perpetuauated Asian stereotypes. That show was not as cute as people think. It's was a toxicity fest.
Speaking of Shameless: Debbie rped a kid and had his baby. And then had the audacity to be upset when him and his family wanted nothing to do with her. That was the last straw for me and I stopped watching shortly after all that.
You have some things confused. She didn’t r*pe Derek… 😂 She r*ped Matty, the older guy she befriended who refused to date her because she was too young. Derek was her baby daddy. She didn’t r*pe him, but she did lie about being on birth control.
She didn’t rape the father of her baby, she lied to him and said she was on the pill. She raped the older boy she liked by getting him drunk…which makes her even worse
How they treated & gutted the character of Danaerys is one of the most unforgivable moments in television history. It's utterly inexcusable. It completely wiped out any goodwill many of us had for DB & DB. Not much more to say. As for Rory on GG, that debacle of a sequel made that character disgusting...and Lorelei as well. Did I just never really see that they were both holier-than-thou, self-absorbed, entitled brats? I cannot fathom how any writer could overcome the nastiness that we saw in the followup of a year to redeem either character...especially Rory. If that's the last we see of Bitch and Bitchier, then good riddance.
Interesting is, that usually, when they slay the female characters in TV series...people are all too happy to bash said female character, finding numerous example where that character "has always been mean/cold/shitty" etc. But with Danaerys they overdid it...for the first time I hear/read people defending a female character and blame the male directors :D
Dani going insane was always the final outcome for her, yes the fucked it up in the end but you see her slowly losing it the entire series. First with slight smirk when Drogo killed her brother, to having the slavers bodies hung on the road to the town. It was always right there in front of all of us. Her torching Kings Landing was inevitable regardless of what triggered it
If i remember the books correctly, it was the toss of a coin...50/50. Her Father was crazy, as was her brother. So it would have been probable that she was skipped.@@justjacksholden4108
GoT: I know, right? Jon Snow is the worst military operations planner on the planet, Danaerys was brilliant, it really bugged me that Snow wasn’t killed after his horrible leadership got so many good guys killed.
Top 10 times Alex Karev was the worst 1. when he abandoned Jo 2. when he beat up Deluca 3. when he called Jo trash 4. when he cheated on Izzie with Olivia 5. when he yelled at April 6. when he put up pictures of Izzie in her underwear 7. his affair with Rebecca 8. bullying George 9. stringing along Lexie 10. when he cheated on Izzie with Lexie For the record, Karev was one of my favorite characters. I know that he had the greatest character development and some of these moments are somewhat justified, but his faults need to be recognized.
Him beating up DeLuca is the worst for me. The only reason he didn't rot in jail for that was plot armor honestly. Absolutely ridiculous. And realistically, Jo would have left him for good, as she was a victim of DV.
These amongst the season where he snitched on meredith for swiping the placebo for webber’s wife was insane !! I couldn’t bear watching him for a while until he got the african kids to get to seattle.
Izzie had one of the coldest responses to her previous career being outed. "Yes, I stripped my way through college, but now I'm debt free. Meanwhile, every single one of you is over $100k in debt for medical school!" (Not an exact quote, but you kwim) ❤
Joss Whedon always had it out for the popularity of Spike. He even verbally threatened Marsters's job on set. While the scene in question was a powerful depiction of real life horror in a series full of fantasy, it was also a hit job on a character that the fans had come to adore.
I really find it hard to watch Buffy and Angel now, since I found out that Joss Whedon is an arsehole. He also ruined Cordelia and got her out of the show. Because she got pregnant? With her husband's baby? What the heck man?!! They wrote it in anyway, so she could have stayed. While I liked season 5, Whedon's refusal to allow any character to be happy, ever, just annoyed me.
I am not sure about that, but it's possible. Was it just to be a jerk? I don't think so. Spike's character was never intended to become so popular (or long-lived). I think it was an artistic decision, one made early on. Now did Whedon also have a big ego and thought he always knew best and took advantage of his power? Sadly, it seems, yes.
That's reading a little too much into it. They handled the SA pretty miserably in S7 (it was WAY more about Spike recovering from it than the actual victim, which shows preference for him). And Whedon wasn't the showrunner in S6, that was Marti Noxon. What that decision was is reactionary. The Buffy writers thought "fans" weren't getting that it was a toxic relationship (when it clearly was, they hit each other all the time). So they kept escalating.
@@sweetsummerchild8156 But what she did she has never done in the books...for all we know she may definitely not take that route...this was the writers deciding what her end will look like when the author didn't sign off on it
@@lalak2157 Well, here's one angle: knowing the story is absolute shit, if you watch it just from the perspective of enjoying all the special effects it could still be fun. Just keep any other expectations low.
Me either, I was pissed off! Also, Bran was so fucking boring in the last few seasons! Why the Hell did they choose him to become King? Gendry was a far better choice than cardboard standee Bran.
@@lalak2157 Not only story, but some of those episodes were so dark, it drew tons of complaints. We sat in a completely dark room and still couldn't see what was going on.
Which makes the fact she was GROSSLY overpaid for the first 6 seasons all the more despicable. She never stood up for her costars, at least not until the reboot.
I really can't believe this but I'm going to defend Rory here, not her actual actions but her right to change her mind about her life. If you actually watch the show, you'd know that Lorelai is an extremely problematic parent at times, who doesn't do Rory any favors by filling her with so much praise but in ways, she also holds Rory to unrealistic standards like when Rory isn't allowed to change her mind about wanting to attend Yale instead of Harvard because Lorelai still hasn't resolved her issues with her own parents or telling Rory that she absolutely must stick to the life plan she set out for herself at four years old is not letting a young woman figure herself out in early adulthood and you don't passive aggressively punish your child by giving them the silent treatment because they've screwed up or disappointed you in some way... Lorelai wanted to be her daughter's friend first and on occasion her mother but you can't pick & choose the moments you want to be your child's parent.
I agree. Rory and Lorelai put each other on such a pedestal it was like each of them could do no wrong. Rory made some very immature choices at times, which I guess was not that surprising given how young her character was, but then when you see how Lorelai behaved you could see that it was at least partly a case of mother influencing daughter. I mean, look at how Lorelai treated Max!! Awful.
Lorelai wanted to be the parent she always wanted her parents to be. Which meant she did EVERYTHING opposite her mother. Plus she was so young when she had her she did try to be her friend - when she decided to turn into a mother neither of them knew how to cope
I feel that Season Six of Buffy was essentially designed to ruin all the main characters. For starters, you mentioned the Spike example, but Willow used magic repeatedly to utterly control Tara's mind and emotions, even after Tara found out and told Willow to stop, and Willow didn't seem to have any hesitation or remorse, and really came off as a narcissistic psychopath for a good chunk of the season.
Yeah, nobody's ever been perfect on that show but it all really culminated in S6. Still, I really enjoy that season, somehow I find it more and more relatable the older I get, the way everybody's so messed up.
And Xander leaving Anya at the altar and then acting like it was a good thing. For me, that moment deserved a spot on this list much more than Spike's attempted rape. I mean, yes, what Spike did was objectively worse, but he was a soulless demon at that point and then he (succesfully) seeked redemption. While Xander ruined Anya's (and his own) chance of happiness without providing any relevant reason and then acting like he did her a favour while also claiming that he still loves her.
i love season six of buffy. it felt like a natural culmination of everything that had been building up until that point. of course things are gonna get weird and fucked up after your slayer friend sacrifices herself to save the world, and then you rip her outta heaven so she can continue to be subjected to the same misery she was forced to deal with since the tender age of fifteen.
@@anishinaabae I love some of it, (particularly the musical, which is my favorite episode of the show) and appreciate what they were trying to do, especially in showing that Buffy suffered essentially from depression, and it explored addiction of many kinds. It was artistically daring, and I like when shows tackle tough "serious" subjects. I'm not sure Buffy was a "serious" show in this way. That season something in the tone was just off. Buffy tackled serious subjects before and for the most part, managed to be sad, realistic, dramatic, funny, romantic and still fantastical, all at once. This season just seemed overly realistic in a way the show wasn't as successful at doing. I know this is unpopular, but I don't include S5's The Body in my list of favorites for similar reasons. Yes, it was artistically daring, and the opening scene is brilliant and breaks my heart (SMG deserves a LOT of the credit for making Buffy believable). However, the rest of the episode didn't fit the tone of the show, until the end when Dawn goes to the morgue and sees the body rise up!
Spike- Nope, still Team Spike. That darkness was needed for his character as a wake up call because he was in morality limbo. He was a demon that could love and that's a dangerous combination. He needed to see what he was capable of so he had motivation to get his soul back. Otherwise he would just keep assuming he was as good as he was going to get.
Rory screamed the textbook case of a child who grew up as a parentified child. One that had to be the ‘responsible’ one, the one that all their parents dreams are riding on. She wasn’t allowed to make teenage mistakes as a teenager. She got screamed at when she accidentally stayed out with Dean. Lorelai outright bullied a child for ‘reminding her of Christopher’ and got his uncle involved and was a major part of the reason he left. So of course when she got freedom she acted like a teenager. The issue is now it’s not acceptable as an adult.
I agree, when you have too much expectation to be a perfect angel all the time and never have the freedom to act like a normal kid, of course, that rebellion is going to come out eventually. Rory never had a chance to act out as a teen so when she hit a rough spot in college it turned out worse because she was an adult. I also think the overreaction to her wanting to take time off Yale to reassess what she wanted to do with her life was way over the top and unfair on her.
As a parent, I understand them freaking out on her for staying out all night with Dean, accident or not. You don't know where your child is all night. They didn't call.
@@onceagain2085 The comment is referring to Jess reminding Lorelai of Christopher. So the uncle in question is Luke. I don't remember the exact circumstances but Lorelai was dating Luke at he time (I think) and when she decided that she didn't want Jess around Rory she ended up putting Luke in a bad spot by in essence forcing him to choose her or Jess.
The episode on FRIENDS where Monica expects Chandler to spend his whole life savings on one day (their wedding) irritated me. Just because it was her dream wedding. What about every day after the wedding? I would rather start off my marriage with financial security than blow it all on one day. That’s just ridiculous to me. And I’m a woman. We had a smaller wedding and used ours for a down payment on a home to start our family in. To each their own I guess.
100% agree. Yes, your wedding is something you wanna remember forever, but you need to remember it for the right reasons, not because it's the reason you and your husband went broke.
Disagree. Dany and Spike in particular were the victims of terrible writing. I didn't hate the character - I hated the people making the horrific decisions.
I'm one of the rare people who defend the Spike attacking Buffy scene. While I hate watching it and shake afterwards if I do, I get the motive behind it and it does make sense for Spike's character. 1. Spike and Buffy always had a toxic and abusive relationship. Look at the episode where the building crumbles around them as a symbol for what they were. Destructive. 2. While it's played for laughs, Spike has always associated love and sex with violence. When he's human and hurt by Cecily's rejection of his love, Drusilla seduces him and bites/kills him with him misunderstanding that she was grooming him. He also said that "if I want Drusilla back, I have to be the man she fell in love with. I'll find her wherever she is, tie her up, torture her until she likes me again". Plus his version of proving his love for Buffy was staking Drusilla. He also was an abusive ass to Harmony, but everyone who claims to be a fan seems to forget that. 3. Again, played up for laughs, but Buffy also in her own way assaulted Spike. When she was invisible, she breaks into his home and they sleep together. Now when he gets upset with her about this being the only way he can have her fully, she pleasures him after him telling her to get out and get out of his life. Again, it's more played up for laughs so it feels like "hey this is ok" but in reality he didn't give consent on that and she didn't respect his wishes to leave. So while it hurts to see him behave that way, he's looking at this moment as she just needs to remember how we are when we are "together". Her resisting is always typical in their relationship so he thinks she's just playing hard to get. The reason why I was able to forgive him after was because you see that he's not there when she screams and when she pushes him off her, he looks so shook and devastated at what he did. He realizes the monster he is and that's why he goes to get his soul, he hates the monster he's become. It's insanely disturbing but a great character arch that I wish more people would give a second look at, including James.
Exactly, so true. There was also an underlining factor to that scene as well. Joss Whedon hated the fact that all the fans loved Spike and wanted him with Buffy. He had hoped that this scene would get fans to stop begging for the relationship and maybe even stop liking Spike so much. Which actually failed. Though I can understand James Marsters on the scene, it had to have been intense and the fact you have to run a scene multiple times for them to pick out the best take. That had to have been rough to remain in that moment and mind set. And I agree, I hate that Buffy SA"d Spike and everyone just laughed about it. So, he was basically doing what she had done, except she had a soul and he didn't making her in my opinion worse.
Love this comment! For a lot of people, I feel like they're the sum of what Cordelia says in Angel season four while possessed and manipulating Angel: "Knowing is different than living it." For a lot of people, I think if it doesn't happen onscreen then it doesn't count in the same way if it did happen onscreen. Just like Angel and Angelus are different, Spike with a soul is different than one without a soul. When Spike finally gets a soul, his goal changes from "must get the girl to love me" to "prove to her I love her even if she doesn't want me." This is evident in the final season with how he interacts with her when Angel shows back up and they kiss. He could have gone into a rage and started a fight, falling prey to the First's provocation of "that b****," like a soulless Spike would have. Instead, he chose to communicate calmly and hear Buffy out. You come up with examples better but that's one that always stuck out to me.
Without trying to excuse what Spike did (it’s the only moment I ever felt disgusted at my favorite character) he was soulless and naturally leaned evil no matter how good he tried to be. Buffy did forgive him after he became ensouled, which he fought for because he was horrified by his own actions but he earned it through building trust. Kind of like what she told Wood, “the man you’re mad at no longer exists.” Even she states in the comics she can’t hold him accountable for what he did as a soulless monster.
@@jnunn525 and the thing is Angelus feels zero remorse for any pain he inflicted on Buffy because he hates her. He killed Jenny because she wanted to help restore him. Spike’s immediate response to knowing he truly hurt Buffy was to kill the monster within. Also, bravo to James for sticking to his principles. I hate that he and SMG had to film something so uncomfortable.
It's interesting that, the attempted assault aside, Spike was a better person than Angel; once his soul leaves, Angelus is far more twisted and evil than Spike, never trying to be good, unless tortured by guilt when his soul returns. Spike's villainy was originally stopped by the Institute chip that prevented him from hurting people, however, he eventually made a conscious choice to no longer kill people, even though he had no soul compelling him. Angel was forcibly given his soul back, whereas Spike went on an arduous struggle to earn his soul back.
@@jnunn525There's even a scene in a flashback in Angel that shows Angel assaulting a young woman with Darla. The soulless vampires are evil, and that's the point.
Yeah, but Spike didn't go to win his soul back. He wanted to "give buffy what she deserves" by removing the chip so he could kill her. When the time for his wish to be granted, he says,"I want to give buffy what she deserves." I think his subconscious wanted his soul back so he could be the man she deserved. It was ambiguous on purpose.
@@jewels2799He did actually go to get his soul back. It was worded that way when he talked to the demon because the writers wanted to have the surprise cliffhanger moment, but they confirmed that his intention was to get his soul back. Removing the chip wouldn't have really mattered if he wanted the kill Buffy since it hadn't worked on her since she was brought back to life.
Yes, I agree! It was way too sudden. But the writers were ready for "better pastures" and were done I guess. They rushed the last at least 2 seasons. It was such a good show too. What a letdown at the end.
It’s been years and I’m still so angry at that ending. Dany had fought so hard and so long, had devoted herself to being a good, just leader and ensuring people of every class and community had equal opportunity and tyrannical rule like that of her father and Cersei would become obsolete. But the loss of two of her dragons and her closest friend was enough to make her burn thousands of people? Did the writers forget we watched her survive the loss of her husband and child, struggling through the desert half dead, that she wasn’t so fragile she was going to snap just like that. Every character just went so downhill, Tyrion apparently loses all his cunning, wit, intelligence, strategy and planning and just “drinks and knows things”. Varys who was arguably at the same level as Tyrion became equally ignorant and useless. Bran seemed borderline sociopathic in his complete lack of feeling for anyone or anything. Jaime decided to toss years worth of character development and growth down and the drain and abandon Brienne because…he found out Cersei wanted him dead? Jon lost all motivation and drive, and apparently the ability to speak in full sentences. Euron, a supposedly deeply dark and frightening character, was like a bad Captain Jack Sparrow cos player. Honestly? I just tell myself the entirety of season 7 and 8 were just a prophetic dream of Dany’s. She’d even said “my dreams come true”, and was a descendant of Daenys The Dreamer. So the final two seasons were just a warning dream. And now that she knows what to change, crisis averted. Insert rational, intelligent, satisfying ending here.
I wouldn't call it a 180, exactly. I started calling her the Mad Queen when reading the first book because it was horribly obvious where GRRM was going with it. Her character practically had a big banner with flashing lights that read, "You have to love me so you can be shocked in the end!" The show made that even more apparent. The problem is, it worked too well. Anytime they tried to show her potential for evil, fans just glossed over or justified it. And instead of seeing that and making things a bit more obvious early on, they just shrugged and slapped you all in the face with it. Don't get me wrong, the writing was crap. But the writing was also on the wall, so to speak. You just had to be open to seeing it.
Actually, Aiden was the one who broke up with Carrie both times. The first time he broke up with her was after she told him that she was having an affair with Big. She knew there was a STRONG possibility that he would break up with her but she still didn’t want him to leave her. The second time he really wanted to get married but she claimed she wasn’t ready. Then he broke up with her because he felt like she was never going to want to marry him. Ultimately it was Aiden that broke up with Carrie because he knew that she would never love him the way that he loved her. I think the fans were just annoyed that Carrie could never get it together for the seemingly perfect guy. On the surface it always looked like she was self sabotaging (and she kind of was lol). However as a fan of the show I’m glad she didn’t end up with Aiden - they were never right for each other. I just wish she had let him go a lot sooner, before she hurt him. She spent way too much time trying to convince herself that he was the one when she knew he wasn’t.
Agree, they were a mis-match. The initial draw for Carrie was that he was the anti-Big, open, easy, no drama, always available nice guy. But also kind of boring.
I've always agreed that they were on a break, but ultimately it doesn't matter since sleeping with someone a few hours after taking a break, still makes you immature, selfish, and thoughtless. I wouldn't want to get back together with someone after that either.
@@launchpadmcquack8142 @launchpadmcquack8142 really...what makes it immature too not be faithful too the person who literally just dumped you and then on top of that invites the one person that you were insecure about.. It's selfish to not stay faithful to someone who just dumped me..give me a fking break..Isn't the one who has hasteningly ended the relationship but expecting the other person to wallow die over them the selfish one?? How long do you suggest he remain faithful??
Ross Poldark assaulting his former fiancé and cheating on his wife Demelza and then having the ABSOLUTE GALL to not take any responsibility and try to justify his horrific actions. Like from that point on, why would you even want to continue supporting someone that horrific? The minute he started trying to justify it, I was fucking done. Never watched another episode after that.
Yes, I completely agree! It was absolutely horrifying that he responded to his wife's hurt by telling her he only hurt her pride, and showed no empathy whatsoever. Disgusting.
I’m not a hundred 100 in agreement about spike. I feel they screwed him over. His relationship with Buffy started with her almost forcing herself on him. Hitting kicking him while he tried to tell her no bad idea so the fact their foreplay was Normal a physical fight. Obviously rape is hopific and he stopped when he saw it wasn’t foreplay. They were both kiss me, no kill me. He did that with out a soul but felt so guilty and loved her so much he sought out a soul to make sure he never hurt her. It’s so complex how could they have found a better scenario for him to realise he need to do soul possibly, but I don’t know what would worked better in that situation they needed a motive for his seeking redemption. The cross scene was genuinely moving as Jesus died On a cross to pay for our sins and spike lying on a Cross to defeat his own sin! So I still liked him. James Marston is a lovely human I met him this week and he was so kind
@@TruthisBeauty2007 yeah he signed my sheet music from the music episode. With keep fighting. Days when fighting is hard and giving up seems easier. I’m very much but spike said no so let’s go. So kind I also mentioned buffy helped one of my kids feel ok about coming out after we watched buffy together. It made him so so happy. I swear he isn’t aging.
Sorry, but he didn't "seek out a soul to make sure he never hurt her" - he was looking for something to give him an advantage so he could "give her what she deserves." He actually was looking to "make her pay" because although he was horrified at what he'd done, even moreso was he hurt and pissed off at her rejection of his love. But as they say, "be careful what you wish for because you just might get it" which is what happened to Spike. What Buffy deserved was a demon/warrior with a soul (just like her) and that's why Spike's soul was returned.
@@overcomingobstaclescreates1695 that’s the good thing about buffy it can be interpreted. In different ways. It’s seem a few agree with me and I think people will agree with your interpretation. (No malice intended but starting with a you a wrong with neither of us knowing the thought process of a fictional character). Your argument is interesting. I said I wasn’t 100% about his good or evil.
Buffy attacks spike but it's filmed and treated like it was okay even hot when she was invisible. They needed to treat the scene the same or not have them at all.
This one of the rare times that I 100% side with Ross. When Monica asks about their anniversary dinner the next morning, Rachel says they broke up. When Ross listens to the voicemail she left THE SAME NIGHT, she calls it a break up. To suddenly change it to just a break because she didn’t like what Ross did as a single man(no matter how recently) is straight up gaslighting. If she admitted in her own words that it was a break up, she had no right to hold that against him. She may have been hurt by him hooking up with someone the same night that she dumped him (and for good reason), but he wasn’t wrong and owed her absolutely no apology for what he did when he was single.
Omg FINALLY!!!! Someone who understands my views. I've always felt like the "we were on a break" thing was such B.S. hell, even Monica agreed, but because Rachel got mad, she backed down. Since we're on the subject of gaslighting, let's talk about that 18 paged letter. I swear that was gaslighting to a T. Homegirl really forced Ross to read a letter in which he's blamed for EVERYTHING and he can't get mad? Damn. Fans are quick to call Ross toxic, but she was worse.
I never thought it was that Ross owed Rachel an apology, it’s that he was more concerned with justifying that he hurt her than showing sympathy that he hurt her.
Writer's block is a terrible thing. "Hey, Jennifer and Michael were a thing, why don't we create a forbidden love plot between Deb and Dex? That way we can all get home before rush hour?"
Yep. Never forgave Andy for treating Erin like crap. The boat scene kinda gave me hope that after she got over the heartache she would find true love. And she did💕
Agreed! That scene was character assassination for Andy, but growth for Erin. She learned that she deserved much better, and she and Pete were so sweet together.
The friends thing never made me dislike Ross. He had faults, just every other character on the show. But they were genuinely broken up and Rachael just continued to bring it up.
No they were not. And even for argument's sake if they were, what does it say about him to go and sleep with the first thing that moves not even double digit hours after breaking up with the supposed love of his life? Ross apologists very conveniently forget that part.
@@BigTuna-lt3sfNobody “forgets that part”; it’s just not relevant because they were, in fact, on a break, and therefore not together. It really doesn’t matter whether it’s been an hour or a month - if they’re not together, they can sleep with whomever they want.
What always annoyed me about that plotline was that Rachel's reasons for breaking up with him were perfectly reasonable (not that she needed any reason other than she didn't want to go out with him anymore). But in the future, when they fight, does she ever say, "you weren't supportive of my career," or, "you didn't trust me around my good-looking coworker even though I had given you no reason not to"? No. She says, "you cheated on me," because he slept with someone else after she dumped him.
I mean I hate Big and Carrie's relationship but Aidan was never meant with Carrie. They are too different and don't have same values. Just because he's a great guy that doesn't mean that she should choose him over Big. They would not last anyway.
In my opinion Carrie and Big deserved each other. They were both toxic. She would always light up like Christmas lights when around Big despite how he treated her. And she always wanted to go back for more of that toxic treatment.
How Rachel was the most popular girl in school and good friends with hugely overweight Monica is beyond me; a doctor father, credit card plus two sisters who love brands and with a massive nose? Never made sense.
I stopped watching The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel after she used Shy Baldwin as a punchline at his own show. She had earlier in the season seen firsthand the physical danger he was in as a black, gay man in 1960's America, and still decided it was okay to out him onstage as part of her standup routine.
YESSSS! I watched the rest of the series anyway in the hope something redeeming would happen, but it just got worse and worse. Then the last season is like every episode was written by a different set of high schoolers doing an essay contest only none of them consult the writers from the other episodes to even try and connect the story into something coherent. What WAS a promising show with an adorable lead character went in the dustbin of history really fast. You didn't miss anything by quitting the show.
I don't know if this counts but I;'d say Frank from Moesha . With him being such a hypocrite, He judged Mo for everything she did but yet had an afair with Mo's mother and kept Dorian hidden as a secret love child. Cause he didn't tell Dorian that he wasn't his uncle not father and also sending Myles to his room. Than wondering why h starts smoking weed.
Rachel was the most toxic, manipulative, cruel, and selfish female character ever on TV, she beats Carrie by 1000000000000000000000 points! I love (sarcasm) how Rachel fans, this channel included, especially Rachel's female feminist fans, every time, fail to address how absolutely awful Rachel was to all the other women on the show, mostly Ross' other girlfriends, but also Monica and Phoebe at times (like when she never cared to clean the apartment and leave all work to Monica, was incredibly selfish and always stole Monica's moments because she just couldn't share the spotlight with anyone). She should be number 1 here.
What sealed it for me was when she demanded that Charlotte give her diamonds ring to her so she could buy her apartment. That seemed very unreasonable considering how much Carrie had spent on shoes!
I kind of agree with that too. I can see this from both perspective and can see why both saw themselves as the right one. Which of course was great writing and was successful in causing debates over it almost 20 years later.
The writers intentionally left it ambiguous so people wouldn't hate this person or that. In a vacuum what Ross did is totally forgivable imho (ie they were on a break, the cast said as much). What people kind of miss in this conversation is they were a nightmare as a couple: Ross was insanely jealous and didn't trust Rachel.
Considering how the same situation would have destroyed him I think he is pretty lenient when it comes to his own mistakes. Even the letter thing he fucked up. His feelings have to be acknowledged and cared for by everyone, but he never shows strength of character for someone else's benefit.
Tv characters I fell out of love with: 1. Eddie Janko (Blue Bloods).Once she got married to Jamie she turned into a Karen who thinks she runs the entire NYPD. 2. Phoebe Buffay (Friends). I hate how she became a full on bully toward Chandler after he and Monica got together. When she revealed that Monica originally wanted to sleep with Joey I was appalled. Why Monica didn't slap her right then and there I'll never know. 3. Lilly Aldrin (How I met your mother). From dumping Marshall to breaking up all of Teds relationships I got sick of her selfishness. 4. Martin Payne (Martin). Although I shipped them hard as a kid, watching as an adult made me realize that Martin was a toxic partner. When he ghosted Gina to join a cult, I saw his character in a different light. 5. Dwayne Wayne (A different world). When he cheated on Whitley then crashed her wedding to Byron I was through. Dont get me wrong that episode was emmy worthy, but it was still an awful thing to do. 6. Toni Childs (Girlfriends). When she got the whole group to turn on Joan when Joan was developing a social life outside of her main friends it was clear that she hadnt matured at all and really wasn't happy unless everyone around her was miserable. 7. Rory Gilmore (Gilmore Girls). Her affair with Dean was the beginning. I really started to hate her when she wrote that scathing article about rich people, even though she was just as privileged. 8. Haley James Scott (One Tree Hill) when she started her emotional affair with Chris Keller I was annoyed. She constantly called Lucas out for being a cheater, but she was freaking married for goodness sake. 9. Rufus Humphrey (Gossip Girl). When he hooked up with Ivy and started acting all scandalous I was so mad. He was literally the last sane person on the show and wound up being just as bad. 10. Christy Plunkett (Mom). Her character got really annoying after she started gambling and got them homeless. She constantly told the family to have faith, but refused to acknowledge her mistakes.
Haley was literally my favorite character but by leaving nate she went down to the least favorite one.. It was inexuseable and stupid though I didn't like lucas much too.. Only decent one was nathan
I actually didn't mind Rory dropping out of Yale. It was the first time she actually did what felt right to her. Even if she ended up regretting it, I'm glad that she stood up for what she wanted for once.
There were a number of reasons to be frustrated with Carrie, but she did not break up with Aiden. She wasn’t ready to get married, she wouldn’t allow him to pressure her into marriage. He dumped her because she would not marry him.
D&D rushed it bec they had lost interest by the last season. Also, they had been in talks about helming the next Star Trek franchise and we're so busy floating over and preparing for that, that they didn't finish what they started. In a fitting twist of fate, the new Star Trek franchise was cancelled in pre- pre- production. The White Walkers gotcha, D&D !
Um no one turned on spike. We ALL knew their relationship was always doomed. Them finding peace when he got his soul back made the scene worth it. The fans understood they had to show the evil was still there and something he couldn't control without a soul. It was major character growth for both characters. I've meet James several times now. There's No actor I enjoy talking to more than him. The man really is a total sweetheart and he appreciates his fans. I think its a shame Hollywood has screwed him over because he's also one of the best actors out there. I've seen him convincingly do everything. If you ever want to meet a great guy and actor... go find James Marsters. You'll love him. He has a heart like Keanu Reeves. Some how he survived Hollywood with his soul in tact too.
@@jessicaj8787 joss is a dick, especially when he doesn't get his way and he thinks he was teaching the next generation like a little cult. Except he had the wrong Gen. Gen X was the main fan base so of course we related with Billy idol. Joss is the one who let him be punk rock. Lol I think what really pissed him off is Dru knew what the show needed more than he did. Dru brought in spike because they were doing some play together and meshing really well. SHE pushed joss to keep spike around a little longer. One more day turned into the show stealing end of the series. So I think his real anger is Dru stole his show and remade it in HER image while she was there. He can't hate on her so of course he blames the fans because THEY made spike a funny and likable character... and we liked him. It's such a stupid thing to be upset about. You hate the person who saved your show??? Like I said joss is a dick. Smh
Don't remember that, but I'd finally had it with Elena when she got together with Damon and was "having fun" drinking people's blood at a party. Bonnie didn't think it was good, either! Really didn't like Damon when he killed Lexi, either; he wasn't redeemed in my eyes until he got close to Bonnie--but we all know how that played out.
@@TruthisBeauty2007 why y'all act like stefan was a saint that man killed equally number of people as Damon but he gets away with it coz he pretends well
The problem is that Rachel's fans are always making excuses for her, even though she's done more terrible things than any other character on the show, yet they refuse to understand Ross' human mistakes. Yes, sleeping with Chloe was a mistake, but it wasn't a conscious betrayal. Rachel had broken up with Ross earlier, and that is an indisputable fact, and it wasn't a 'break' but a final breakup, because Rachel went to Ross the next morning and asked if she could be his girlfriend again - again - so yes, it was a final breakup. But of course, even if it was a final breakup, Ross still made the mistake of sleeping with Chloe right away, and no one is saying it wasn't a mistake, but there are some extenuating circumstances. First of all, Ross was drunk and Chloe has taken advantage of drunk Ross. It's clear when you watch that scene at the bar between Ross and Chloe that Chloe was just waiting for this opportunity because she's always fancied Ross. And Ross was drunk, so Ross never slept with Chloe because he wanted to, consciously, no one has complete control over themselves when they're drunk. So the truth is that Ross and Rachel were both right and wrong, and since they both never stopped loving each other, deep down, as their entire history has proven, they both should have swallowed their pride and tried to compromise and get back together much earlier. Ross and Rachel were a classic on-an-off couple, and the fact that fans and the media are still, to this day, having passionate discussions about their relationship proves that they were a brilliantly written on-an-off couple, that's the irony :)
Beeing drunk ist no excuse. Ross just fucked up and instead of seeing what he has done (hurting Rachel) he just yelled again and again that they were on a break... yeah well, this also doesn't make it better, because if you were on just a break, than this is still cheating especially when you do it like 2 hours after the phone call.
Brandon cheating on Kelly in the original Beverly Hills 90210. They really wanted him out of this "good guy"-role, but it was just not in his character.
I think that more than hating a character I hated writers for writing some storylines that seemed inconsistent with the character development they had created, so I didn't take it that seriously. But some characters just showed what they really were like , like Carrie and Danaerys. What they did was no surprise to me!
I agree. I hated it when the writers of the Big Bang Theory started dumbing down Sheldon. It made no sense and fortunately, they didn't continue with that storyline or they would have lost me.
That moment in Buffy is the reason spike went to get his soul, he realised that while he was soulless and capable of doing these horrible things he would never be worthy of her, and even though he knew she would never love him back, he couldn't live knowing he could ever do that to her again.
For the record, Nate wasn't jealous of Ted - he was jealous that Ted began to shift his attention to Roy. It brought up abandonment issues and fear of not being seen after he'd been so validated by Ted.
I still think the Ross hate is ridiculous, it’s a comedy, if you watch any comedy that goes beyond 3 seasons there’s always this inclination to take a normal character & crank it up to eleven & make them an extreme version of themselves so they become more neurotic, self involved & just plain goofy… friends did it twice with Ross & Joey, look at Joey in the first couple seasons, he had some moments that made him lack common sense but by season 7-10 they made him Appear really dumb to the point that you gotta ask how is he still alive with his lack of intelligence
Friends has some of the worst Flanderization of all their characters. They are all normal people with a few quirks in Season 1. By Season 10 Chandler only speaks in punchlines, Ross is just a bundle if neurosis and anxiety, Joey is essentially full on special needs, Monica is a screetching harpy, Rachel is so ditzy she can barely dress herself, and Pheobe is just straight up an insane sociopath lol
I thought Monica was extremely annoying after she and Chandler became serious about one another. Little quirks that were cute in the earlier seasons became obsessions and she was very shrill and demanding. I also thought Chandler became too deferential to her - it was somewhat emasculating for his character. It’s good to love your significant other and care about their feelings, but not to the point that you lose everything that made you the person you were before being involved with them.
Nah. Carrie and Aidan weren't right for each other. And she didn't actually break up with him. She didn't want to rush in to marriage because she wasn't sure, and he clearly didn't trust her and was trying to force the marriage to make up for that lack of trust. He basically gave her an ultimatum - get married now or never get married. She said she didn't know if she'd ever be ready for marriage and so he left. To me, this was the right decision for both characters. The cheating should have been what was on the list.
Yup my thoughts exactly. Aidan was the one who ended it. The cheating was the worst thing Carrie did. Not wanting to get married because you’re unsure is better than rushing into marriage just to make your partner trust you.
Rachel treated Ross like her property, Rachel was a narcissist obsessed with Ross, period. Ross didn't actually run after her, after they broke up the second time, it was Rachel who constantly ran after Ross, including to his wedding to stop it! Ross only went crazy after their break up when she started dating Joey, and that was understandable, and btw, no one EVER mentions how Ross actually gave Joey and Rachel his blessing at the end of The One When Ross is Fine. Now, remind us, what Rachel did to Ross, and all his girlfriends, when Ross tried to move on? hm? you don't remember, do you? First, she couldn't forgive him even tho he didn't do anything wrong - she did break up with him, period. And then she insulted, and ruined Julie, Bonnie, Emily, and the girl from the shop, she had the same modus operandi when it came to hurting all of Ross's girlfriends, so throwing ugly slurs at them behind their back, manipulating Ross so his relationship with them would fall apart, ruin their hair/appearance, and literally kiss and go after Ross when he was with them! She was the one who started to flirt with Ross at the beach house when Ross was with Bonnie, and she didn't care at all that Ross had a girlfriend, the same was with Julie - Rachel kissed Ross when he was Julie, so you can all miss me with your crying about 'poor Rachel' when she was supposedly 'cheated on' (no, she wasn't; again - she broke up with Ross before he got drunk and slept with Chloe). Rachel was the one who didn't care if she destroyed other people's relationships for her own selfish reasons, she didn't care if the guy cheated on other women with her, so why she is constantly presented as the victim? She wasn't. She ran after Ross all the time, sabotaging all his other relationships, then she rejected him, and she repeated this process over and over, she just played with his heart 24/7!! She constantly lied - like when she blamed the Vegas wedding on Ross, yet only at the end when Ross brought her divorce papers, she admitted it was all her idea and she wasn't that drunk then. Yet she attacked Ross earlier because of this marriage 24/7, and she didn't say a word it was literally her idea in the finest place! She constantly mocked and attacked Ross, his job, and his love life, she NEVER took responsibility for her awful acts and faults! Rachel was a selfish, spoiled, manipulative, hypocritical narcissist and eternally immature, spoiled, rich daddy girl, and human with an ugly soul, period!
I stopped watching "Grey's Anatomy" after Alex Karev left. 16 years of character development was ruined with that letter. Just episodes prior, he made a vow to Jo that he wouldn't leave her, like his dad did to his mom and family, when his mom had a breakdown and then BOOM! That's exactly what he did to Jo. Jo was hated at first when she came in, but eventually became a very likable character due to her storyline of domestic violence and sexual assault. She (the actress) gave a great portrayal of trauma and PTSD and how to cope and deal with said trauma. Only to be traumatized again by the one person who should've known better. Justin Chambers wanted to leave the show, but it would've been better to kill his character rather than have him ghost everyone.
Fell out of love with Rory Gilmore when she started having an affair with a married Dean. Her claims that he was her Dean just showed her entitlement. It was all downhill with her character after that.
I thought Aiden broke up with Carrie for the second time when she refused to marry him? She didn't break up with him, he left her, at least thats how I remember it...
Rory was bad since after Jess. She just didn’t grow up. Maybe because she thought she was more mature than everyone else… but than she stopped growing up. The Rory at the beginning of her college years and the Rory at the end of the original series are one and the same. And it’s crazy! Nobody goes through college without changes because you will meet new people and learn new things. But she’s the same. And everyone else isn’t. Rory rejected Jess even though she still loved him, and later she reject Logan even though she still loves him. She used Dean to lose her virginity and than, after Jess act like he is us- and the voice of reason (“why did you drop out of Yale “), she almost uses him to get back at Logan. And do we need to talk about the Netflix series? She can’t have a mature relationship with her boyfriend, but is Logan’s lover even though he’s about to get married. And the only original idea she had isn’t hers at all, but she has to thank Jess for it.
I can't believe people still arguing that "We were on a break" scenario. After Rachel dumped Ross, Ross, in his heartbroken agony, also drunk, slept with another woman. It wasn't just another argument in their relationship, Rachel DUMPED HIM! They officially weren't a couple anymore. I think 99% of the fans of the show agree with that. Also, compaired to what a lot of (if not most) people do in the real world (cheating, while in a marriage), blaming Ross for having a one night stand after a break-up, feels far-fetched.
Please it was Rachel who was always horrible towards Ross. She spoiled his marriage, she always blamed him for everything and ignored her shortcomings. Rachel was a horrible character.
Rory lost all my sympathy back when she skipped her own MOTHERS GRADUATION to see Jess in NYC back in season 2. she was alias bratty and self-entitled, Its cause everyone praised the grass she walked on and thought she could do no wrong, and continued to baby her well into her adulthood.
See that we were on a break thing made me dislike Rachel. She broke up with him, he was devastated, and he made a mistake. Rachel gaslighted him for years telling him they weren’t actually broken up because she changed her mind the next day.
Exactly. I was on Ross' Side for that. They were legit on a break that she initiated. Then she was mad that he slept elvish someone who wanted him? No.
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What TV moment completely destroyed a character for YOU? Let us know below, and check out our video of the Top 10 TV Characters Who Were Denied Their Happy Ending - ruclips.net/video/Bnc7gQPnJKM/видео.html
Rachel should be number 1 here, on this list! She was an awful human being, just as Hugh Laurie's character on the plane said in the famous scene. Ross NEVER cheated on her and always loved her, but all Rachel did was play with his feelings and heart. First, she couldn't forgive him even tho he didn't do anything wrong - she did break up with him, period. And then she insulted, and ruined Julie, Bonnie, Emily, and the girl from the shop, she had the same modus operandi when it came to hurting all of Ross's girlfriends, so throwing ugly slurs at them behind their back, manipulating Ross so his relationship with them would fall apart, ruin their hair/appearance, and literally kiss and go after Ross when he was with them!
She was the one who started to flirt with Ross at the beach house when Ross was with Bonnie, and she didn't care at all that Ross had a girlfriend, the same was with Julie - Rachel kissed Ross when he was Julie, so you can all miss me with your crying about 'poor Rachel' when she was supposedly 'cheated on' (no, she wasn't; again - she broke up with Ross before he got drunk and slept with Chloe). Rachel was the one who didn't care if she destroyed other people's relationships for her own selfish reasons, she didn't care if the guy cheated on other women with her, so why she is constantly presented as the victim? She wasn't.
She ran after Ross all the time, sabotaging all his other relationships, then she rejected him, and she repeated this process over and over, she just played with his heart 24/7!! She constantly lied - like when she blamed the Vegas wedding on Ross, yet only at the end when Ross brought her divorce papers, she admitted it was all her idea and she wasn't that drunk then. Yet she attacked Ross earlier because of this marriage 24/7, and she didn't say a word it was literally her idea in the finest place! She constantly mocked and attacked Ross, his job, and his love life, she NEVER took responsibility for her awful acts and faults! Rachel was a selfish, spoiled, manipulative, hypocritical narcissist and eternally immature, spoiled, rich daddy girl, and human with an ugly soul, period!
Rachel was the most toxic, manipulative, cruel, and selfish female character ever on TV, she beats Carrie by 1000000000000000000000 points! I love (sarcasm) how Rachel fans, this channel included, especially Rachel's female feminist fans, every time, fail to address how absolutely awful Rachel was to all the other women on the show, mostly Ross' other girlfriends, but also Monica and Phoebe at times (like when she never cared to clean the apartment and leave all work to Monica, was incredibly selfish and always stole Monica's moments because she just couldn't share the spotlight with anyone). She should be number 1 here.
Octavia slapping lincoln and lecturing him on his own culture when he was going through withdrawls. Oh, and beating up bellamy
I loved Tony Soprano right up to the time he had Adriana killed. I despised him from then
# 3 , Buffy the Vampire Slayer ... I LOVE how she called Her Spike's Slayer ( His Slayer ) . 💜🖤💜🖤💜🖤
Carrie was terrible from the beginning but the moment I started hating her was when she cheated with Big, not when she broke up with Aiden.
"You have to forgive me."..... the worst!
SJP not the best actress in the world
Mine was when she abandoned Miranda after her eye surgery
Carrie was always selfish... So annoying. My favorite was always Samantha 😁
Carrie is A CAUTIONARY TALE- she’s not perfect, she’s selfish and insecure. All of the girls have something wrong in them… that’s why the show worked; nobody wants to see a boring good girl.
Rory in Gilmore Girls was always a brat with a superiority complex. She treated Dean like crap and was flirty with Tristan while she dated Dean. Then flirted with Jess while dating Dean. Slept with Dean, while he was married, and tried to act like it was fine because she dated him first. Tried to use Jess to get back at Logan. And let’s not forget the Netflix movie where she couldn’t even remember her boyfriend and was screwing an engaged Logan. Rory was never actually a good person.
Yeah Rory really did end up a complete piece of shit. The last couple seasons really seemed to be oddly focused on destroying characters and making sure none of them ended up happy..... like holy fuck, couldn't you just let Luke and Lorelai be together and enjoy their lives? Even the movie still felt the need to shake them up... that movie sucked entire oceans worth of ass.
Lorelei called Rory out for kissing Dean when he got married. Rory said something to her mom about how she had him first & kept thinking "girl, you dragged two other guys along while you were dating him. He belongs to someone else!!" She made the list of hated tv characters.
Agreed omg
Dude the follow up season really drove home the everyone gets to be miserable story drive. Except Paris. Paris ended up doing pretty great for herself.
Agreed, i Love Gilmore Girls, but Rory was totally brat
We were never in love with Carrie, she was the absolute WORST. Cheating on Aiden while he was fixing her house, judging Samantha constantly, sending Aiden over to help Miranda then just talking about herself when she visits her with dry bagels and no cream cheese, and finally having the audacity to get angry at Charlotte for not immediately lending her money. Such a shitty, self centred person. Loved all the other characters though...
I agree! Hated Carrie, not a fan of SJP.
I could never get into SatC because I really dislike all 4 main characters (although Carrie was definitely the wooooorst). I guess the one benefit is that she and Big were both equally abhorrent, so by being involved with each other, they were preventing 2 other innocent souls from all of that abhorrent-ness.
I agree, I never identified with Carrie at all. I am something of a cross between Samantha and Charlotte. Carrie always seemed so irresponsible and clueless to me. She never had her shit together. In fact she is something like Anna Karenina or Scarlett O'hara. Flighty, self absorbed and completely annoying. I cheered when Anna killed herself because she FINALLY committed to something.
@@athenacrowne9103 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@saf2127 Correct. They are terrible people.
I actually liked Stannis Baratheon until he allowed his daughter to be burned alive at the stake on Game of Thrones! The most tragic scene ever!
True, he didn't seem that bad, then Shireen happened
Agree. I literally could not watch it. Had to close my eyes. It was heartbreaking.
@@elinesvendsen8046Sadly, I couldn't close my ears!
For whatever reason I handled the Red Wedding way better than Shireen's death. Parental betrayal is the worst human act possible.
@@djmikio that's the reason. You just said it.
Alex leaving Jo via letter didn't make me hate Alex, it made me hate the showrunners for ruining 15 seasons of great character development. I was already struggling to keep watching the show at that point, but the crappy way they handled Justin Chamber's departure made up my mind.
Yes! Death would have been much better. Or at least if katherine heigl threatened him and he would have to make a decision.
Absolutely. 15 years of character growth & development destroyed by a horrid "I'm leaving the show, write the worst out you can pull out of your azz" jerk move.
Comment on point.
I agree, they really screwed this up, it made absolutely no sense. I understand that they did not want to kill him off, but they could have just come up with some better and more believable ending for him.
@@bebeeblue I had stopped watching Grey's when Yang left, but a friend still watched it and kept me up to date. When she told me what they did with Alex, only seeing now they included secret twins in the mix, I was like dude just kill him off, you have no bother doing that to other characters before.
Mitchum may have been a jerk when he told Rory that she didn't have what it takes to be a serious journalist, but by the sequel series, he turned out to be completely right.
Unfortunately. I had hoped he was wrong and Rory would work hard on her dream career.
Here is the thing, it doesn't matter whether he's right or wrong. It was ONE person during an Internship that told her this. ONE. You don't switch career because of one persons opinion. Dream or not. She had already sunken so much Money and time in it and just quit because of one Person.
I was disappointed that she turned up her nose at a teaching position at Chilton. (Full disclosure: I am a teacher.) I always thought she would have been a great academic.
@@MelissaOdell-p7eShe acted as if teaching at a prestigious private school was beneath her. Which is ridiculous.
He was the first person not to be impressed by her pile of books and admire how super smart she was. She was unprepared.
Rory lost all sympathy when she slept with Dean while he was married .. and then when she started it with Jess
Gilmore Girls: Yes. Bur for me, it was when Rory missed Lorelei’s community college graduation to go to NYC and hung around with Jess all day, making her late. The height of carelessness and thoughtlessness towards a mother who only ever applauded every success her daughter had.
Having rewatched the show, Dean is one bug red flag. Selfish and obsessive, not to mention sexist.
@@HRHDMKYT that was the first big disappointment. She also left the gift at the bus. Men and her ego always took the best of her.
@@HRHDMKYTShe was crazy in love. 😂
@@HRHDMKYT I absolutely HATED that. Like, for that punk you missed your mother's graduation?!?! NOPE.
Oof, that Rory clip where she said "You never went to college so you wouldn't know" brought sh*t back. Lorelai gave up on going to college, in order to take responsibility over her mistake and raise Rory away from an environment that made HER childhood toxic. Giving up a hell of a lot of other things along the way as well. Every viewer with enough life experience could read between the lines and tell that Lorelai's image of her daughter was sliiightly too rose coloured. But for Rory to throw that in her mothers' face like that, was seriously painful to watch.
Watching the infamous "Buffy" scene while knowing that even James Marsters felt that it was out of character for Spike to force himself on Buffy, kind of softens the blow a little.
He hated filming that scene. Like to this day, he has trouble talking about it. He even had a clause added to his actors contract, saying he wouldn’t play rapists
Acting can be a tough gig some times.... some stories that are worth telling unfornately mean a decent person has to act in a pretty disgusting way... whether its racism, sexism, assault, etc.... its a struggle for some performers. Especially when certain morons can then not seperate those actors from the performance. Keefer Sutherland has talked before about certain fans treating him like trash because of a character he played.
What makes it harder to watch was that it felt out of character for spike after all he had done for Buffy in Season 5/6 to the point where even Buffy trusted him with Dawn's life. Thankfully he redeemed himself in the end
Um... no, it was completely in character, and a logical conclusion of their incredibly abusive relationship in season 6.
Thank you, yes I hated watching it as much as everybody else but it made sense.
Fiona was expected to raise her siblings her whole life up til that point she did as good as she could. Her having a break down that whole season and spiraling into the same dark areas she often pulled her family out of. It just made me feel bad for her. The fact no one in her family seemed to stop and realize she needed help this time just made me mad. Like I know they don’t straight out express they care but the things they always end up doing for each other lets you know and Fiona did a lot more than she had too. Idk it irks me they did her dirty like that after everything she did for them they just left her to drown
Yes!
Exactly. She doesn't belong to this list. She has been put into a parents role, which is abuse in itself. How was she supposed to deal with all that shit her useless father and her siblings put up upon her? I only felt sorry for her.
I agree. If anything Debbie should have been on the list not Fiona. She went from being a sweet little girl who was smart and reasonable. Helping her family and being dependable to Fiona to a self serving selfish brat. I had hopes when she had Franny she would have matured but she got worst.
I agree! They did her so dirty, and she really only tried her best. F**k Debbie, she was the worst for me.
@@dharris2005 omg you literally sound like those people that think everyone had plastic surgery because they grew up and don't look 14 anymore. Was she supposed to stay a pre teen girl in her script when she was a teenage girl. Have you ever met a teenage girl because they are rotten to the core. She lost portion of her foot later on so I'm sure that made you feel a lot better about a fictional character getting karma for being a teen.
Deb falling in love with Dexter was even weirder knowing that the actors had been married and were divorced by that point. So not only did they have a sister falling in love with her brother, they had a woman pretend to be in love with her ex-husband.
It would have been way worse if they had to film actual romance scenes 😅
I still don't get it. They are not biological siblings.
@@migmitthey were literally brought up as siblings and raised as ones that is basically incest
@@Kameronwatson60 To me it's about as close as kids from neighboring houses, who always play together.
I didn't know they were married...ewwwww
Carrie broke up with big because he has commitment issues and doesn't want to get married again after disgusting divorce. But when Aidan wants to marry her, she suddenly anti marriage. Lmao
THIS
Well, we all want to marry some people and not marry others, right (assuming you want to marry at all)? I think it would look hypocritical if she chased commitment with Big, but then when Big proposed she gets cold feet. That's not what happened. Being 100% in on one person and not quite sure with a different person would be true for everybody, I feel. I'm uncomfortable with how much people beat Carrie up for not wanting to marry Aiden. I've certainly loved people deeply but not wanted to marry them, it's tough but understandable, and I feel like a lot of the hate she gets for that is because of her gender, like how dare a woman turn down a man she loves who wants to marry her.
@@FishareFriendsNotFood972 i agree! Just because she loved him, doesn't mean she wanted to marry him. She did want to marry Big though. Why do people hate her for that?
@@saramathurasingh9285 Thank you! I think a lot of the hate really is people demanding all women have a beggar's mentality and just accept a man as long as he wants to commit. It's basically saying, 'if you turn down the nice guy, you deserve to get punished by the bad guys'. UGH. I feel like it has become trendy to really trash talk Carrie on the internet with newer SATC fans, but I found her sometimes messy decisions and complicated motivations to humanize her and make her sympathetic to me. Live long enough, and we all become the heartbreakers to some and the heartbroken to others. It's painful, but it's life!
Aiden was NOT the one. Not for her. Maybe for some of the fans. Not for Carrie.
It was when Rory cheated with married Dean for me. I didn't care that she left college because it felt like a normal thing people do when figuring themselves out. She grew up in a small town under a lot of pressure and being in a new environment with more to explore can be overwhelming. I completely understood that character progression. Her sleeping with Dean though was out of left field and didn't feel in line with her character or typical growing pains.
Did I miss the part where all of these men “ slept” with Rory. Men doing that are misunderstood or studs or ( you pick a word) and women doing that are ???
I didn't mean to present my statement as if I was supporting some sort of men can do what they want whilst women do the same and are villainized stance. I never had a high opinion of Dean, he was creepy, possessive, and emotionally abusive so his cheating on his wife didn't feel out of character to me. However, Rory cheating with him seemed very left-field, and I couldn't look at her the same after that.@@ivanalaff5346
The point, I believe, is that she should have shown discernment in her actions. While sleeping around is reprehensible, doing so with a married man makes the action even worse, then trying to justify said action with I knew him before her, the whole situation was not ok.
@@ivanalaff5346 Dean always sucked. No one liked Dean anyway. But Rory sleeping with him was a seriously low point for her character, both in choice of person and that he was married. And she never accepted that what she did was actually wrong. She just never took accountability for her actions. At least his marriage was ruined for his actions.
I always wondered who Justin Chambers offended to have such a horrible write-off. Even Derek got to leave a hero. But undoing all of Alex's character growth? Absolutely horrible. He deserved better.
I swear, honestly if that's all they could come up with they were better off killing Alex off.
I think it's more about how he left than anything. He was just like I'm not coming back right before they were supposed to come back after the winter break.
totaly agree. Same thing about Danerys/
@@Mia_MThat might be but us the fans deserved better.
@@natabelova6615 I think that in both cases, the writers already had their storylines plotted out, and just didn't have the time to adjust. I remember finding out about Chambers' exit--it was right in the middle of a season. While I hadn't seen the show in years, I remember how much Alex had grown. To hear that he left Jo via a Dear Jane letter? Like, come again? I assumed that Chambers left on such short notice that they couldn't really write him out another way, other than killing him off (like they did about 20 other characters).
As for Danerys, if the plot of the show was running out of time relative to the books, couldn't the writers have just worked with the author on a simplified framework on how the series should have ended? Taken the time to wrap things up in a more satisfying way? If that meant delaying the last season, breaking it up into two parts, or, well, ANYTHING other that what they gave the fans that had invested years into the series, its legacy wouldn't have taken the hit that it did.
Carrie going ' I can't marry you to make you trust me' is pretty funny, considering that's pretty much why she married Big.
If you think THAT ,you have no idea what even happened
@@melmc9672 Well, what do you think happened? She didn't want to get married to Big, then didn't want to wear an engagement ring. She goes off with the girls, kisses Aidan, confesses to Big on the phone from half the world away, and when she gets home Big basically says "You're going to marry me and you'll wear an engagement ring." Diamond black as her soul, remember?
@@stephdiaz5363It’s funny how the Carrie haters can never keep the storyline straight.
She was already married to Big in the second movie where he gives her the black diamond ring at the end. I repeat, they were already married. They get married at the end of the first movie. So it didn’t go down the way you claim.
@@shutitokWho cares? She was a leech. I repeat: she was a leech. Refute that fact.
@@shutitokyup
Carrie was always selfish and absolutely insufferable. The worst thing she did was stalk Natasha. I was so glad when Natasha very politely gave it with both barrels.
Phoebe Haliwell would've been on the list for me. The season four Charmed finale when, after months of fighting an internal battle with the Source inside his own body to protect her (a fight that helped keep the Charmed Ones alive), Phoebe straight up abandons Cole in limbo. Then proceeds in season 5 to treat him like the devil incarnate.
This!!! She was the WORST when that man had the literal source of all evil in his body and he SURVIVED.
YES ... I HATED her for that. ... "No Body Hurts His Pumpkin" 😢. He still LOVED her. Yelling at the TV helps , a Little bit . Still Mad
I'm watching Charmed on TV since a couple of days. Recently I saw again the episodes of and following the death of Prue. Phoebe's grieving in these episodes is a fucking joke.
Yep, Phoebe is the very first one that comes to mind for me. I couldn't stand her in season 5 and beyond.
THANK YOU! I’ve always thought the same. Phoebe wouldn’t last a second trying to control “The Source” in her body, and the only reason why Cole had The Source in the first place was to save her.
The Ross/rachel ‘on a break’ debate for me is hard cuz I see both sides. Rachel called it a break, and I can get how that would sound like breakup to someone. So I get that Ross thought they were broken up, and the added touch of hearing mark on the phone when talking to Rachel pushed him over and he slept with someone. But like Rachel argued, he didn’t waste time sleeping with someone else after they supposedly broke up. Whether or not they were a couple when it happened, Ross still looks bad. Either he cheated on his girlfriend, or he moved on and slept with someone else after breaking up with his girlfriend in such a short time. Instead of harping on whether or not it was cheating, he should acknowledge how he hurt Rachel and own up to it. After a while, saying ‘we were on a break’ sounds more like an excuse cuz sleeping with a random girl a couple hours after you ‘broke up’ with ur girlfriend, makes it seem like u didn’t care that much about the relationship.
I mean, yeah its super fast to be "moving on" but if he thinks Rachel is getting plowed by Mark that very night, it kind of makes sense he'd get hammered and go looking to do the same thing. Ross even makes that point to her when she says he "had a hell of a time at the wake".
Ultimately the whole thing is caused by Ross' insane jealousy issues stemming from Carol cheating on him and from Rachel deciding her new job was much more important than her relationship. Honest communication could've solved it all before anything happened, but this is TV lol
If Ross truly believed that being on a break is valid to go hook up w/ someone else, then there'd be no need for him to go around trying to cover it all up. Yes, Joey & Chandler were bad influences and he claimed that he was gonna tell her the truth down the line, but all that just confirms that he knew what he did was inexcusable. Otherwise, he would've just faced Rachel and said "Look, I thought you were hooking up w/ Mark so I hooked up w/ this girl while we were on a break".
For me, I didn’t see Rachel declaring it a break. She said “maybe we should take a break” and he just said fine and hung up. It wasn’t even an actual break and it wouldn’t have happened anyway if Ross hadn’t been so insecure. Rachel was fine when she was a crappy waitress but the moment she started having a career that made her happy, he hated it. Even when Mark wasn’t around, he would act like her job was a joke or no big deal. It was very disrespectful even before the irrational jealousy kicked into full gear. I was so pissed at her for giving up Paris for him because that was her dream job and she gave it up for a guy who would never appreciate the sacrifice she made.
@@Vintage_Izy Ross also tried to gaslight Rachel by saying that she's the one who bailed and didn't fight for their relationship. As if he didn't do the same by immediately walking out after she said that they needed a break and him apparently thinking that their relationship was dead.
@@Vintage_IzyThis is actually not true. The next morning Rachel says “can I be your girlfriend again” when she met Ross at his apartment so the implication is that they were indeed broken up at that time.
I never fell out of love with Fiona. What she did in that season was crazy but we watched this character get hit with so much, you’d almost expect a mental break down and total unraveling.
Fiona was the most functional and all the parent that family ever had, but she was still a Gallagher and addiction, screw ups was in her blood, the fact the would crawl back out whatever hole she would fall or jump into makes her a wonderful character right up until she walks away
The original uk show has a better arch than the usa
Controversial opinion: on Grey's Anatomy I lost all respect for Arizona Robbins when she cheated on Callie Torres in the middle of a storm
She was awful! "I'm all sweetness and light because I'm such a great pediatrician" right around a heartbroken Callie who was just recovering from being cheated on by her husband and Izzie. Then she has an accident and blames Callie for amputating her leg. And then goes and cheats on her. What an absolute wreck.
Arizona was shitty ever since day 1. Never liked her. Callie was better off having a friends with benefits relationship with Mark.
Fr! I hated Callie’s treatment:(
I always hated her. Terrible terrible character, extremely selfish and egoistic
here´s the comment I was searching for
Spike was still a fan favorite. Joss put that scene in there, hoping fans would stop wanting the two to be together. But he also put it there to push Spike into fighting for his soul.
Because, let's not forget Spike was soulless vampire, who surprisingly enough actually had feelings for Buffy. He was horrified by his actions. It was a pivotal moment of character growth and people still very much loved Spike. Even after this event.
He was the best character on the show.
Joss hated Spike at first, he was supposed to be in a couple of episodes and die, but he was so popular that the executives insisted that Spike be at least a recurring character if not a regular. He hated him to the point of physically assaulting the actor and trying to scare him away from the production since he couldn't convince the executives.
But then again Joss abused a lot of people during his heyday.
@Tyfreaky13 I know Whedon once cornered James Marsters and told him that he didn’t care how popular he was, that he was dead. And he finally got to kill off Spike at the end of Buffy...only for him to come back on Angel that had to have frustrated the hell out of Whedon.
The only time Carrie was right in her relationship with Aiden was when she chose not to rush into marriage with him. I know she was horrible for him and she didn’t deserve a good guy like him. But in a way, she was right. She wasn’t loyal to him and if Aiden made her his wife, she wouldn’t have stayed for long and she would’ve sprinted after Big. As good as Aiden is, he can’t just turn a cheater and an awful person like Carrie into a loving wife. She basically did him a favor by saying no to their elopement.
Carrie was also a smoker something that Aiden didn't like about her and she couldn't really quit the habit
What kills me the most is why the heck did Carrie chase Aiden again and begged him to take her back if she didn't wanna go the distance with him? She already knew he was a keeper and the long-relationship kind of guy.
@@charliejoson9145That's actually very human. After all, it's addiction.
Carrie is an addict - to cigarettes and pain of emotional unavailability. Carrie even admits this to herself when Big leaves for Paris. However, unlike the show, Candice Bushnell's SATC book ends with Carrie single and thriving.
Completely agree. Carrie did not deserve Aiden.
Jess: What are you doing? Living at your grandparents' place? Being in the DAR? No Yale?! WHY did you drop out of Yale?
Rory: It's complicated!
Jess: It's not! It's not complicated!
Rory: You don't know!
Jess: This isn't you! This! You going out with this jerk, with the Porsche! We made fun of guys like this!
Ross and Rachel were toxic together.
No they weren’t, they were barely together
@@TheMarine316 other than the year they dated, the times they hooked together, when they got married and divorced, when they had a baby together… but, yeah their relationship hardly mattered in the show… 🤔😳😒 she didn’t ruin just about every relationship he was ever in- not with Julie or Emily or Mona. He cheated on her and was jealous. Not toxic, at all. 🥸🤡
@@baxtersmom279 it was played for laughs, I really don’t think people understand what a toxic relationship is on here
I never understood how people ever thought they were THE couple on the show - it was created from Ross's obsession and Rachel's neediness. Monica and Chandler had the best relationship, ironically, from the beginning. When they hooked up and their relationship took off, it seemed like the natural progression of a great friendship.
@@mortimerbrewster3671 It's because the show focused on them as the main couple, Monica and Chandler are easily the best couple, but a big reason why the show is so successful is because of the will they wont they between Ross and Rachel, although it goes on WAY too long
The ending of GOT was a betrayal to all the fans who loved it. The writers of this last season should never be allowed to write screenplays again. Normally with series I love, I’ll rewatch. But with GOT and knowing how they ended it, I just can’t bear to watch it. I just get angry. Those two writers are arrogant, entitled, greedy jerks who ruined one of the most epic stories of all time.
Exactly.. basically threw away all of the previous years, the character building, couples, the story arcs that were destroyed, or never finished, and then having her burn the city.
Those writers were extremely luckily with George R.R Martin’s books! Without the books, this series wouldn’t have been so great but season 8 didn’t have a book to refer to cos George hadn’t written it yet … 7 years during shows run and still waiting. The writers apparently consulted George in regards to the last season but we can see the writing was convoluted and didn’t do justice to the series. The question now is will George ever write the last book/s and how he completes the series.
Same.
The White Walkers' conclusion was very disappointing too. All that build up for nothing.
It's almost like you didn't watch the first seven seasons of her becoming increasingly vicious and unhinged. It will never not amaze me that people were surprised by the ending 😂
I had disliked Gilmore Girls (the show and the two women) before the original airing ended but when they came back for the four episode reunion, the cute banter and progression of the characters made me go back to the original show and realize that Loralei and Rory were ALWAYS selfish, horrible characters. They were played off as cutesy and fun but no one in their right mind would want to date them or be friends with people like them.
Totally agree. Rory gets a lot of hate but Lorelai deserves just as much. She was incredibly irritating, immature & selfish, as well as bringing up Rory to believe that they were both special & superior. Every time I watch the series I can't stand either of them, it's the other characters that make the show.
Thank you. I never got the appeal!
Exactly. She took advantage of Suki all the time, I never got why she’d be friends with selfish Lorelei at all.
Yes. I see a lot of comments about Rory but but pretty much everyone on that show had a sour side to them. Lorelai was a very irritating person and was incompetent, Luke had anger issues and needed therapy, Jess had anger issues and had had no common decency and needed therapy just like luke. lorelais parents were just snobby rich people, Rorys dad Christopher was a deadbeat dad that try to help loreali raise her. Paris was a spoiled brat, how Suki and Jackson became a couple was stupid and borderline toxic casuse Suki was critize the food he delivered to her. Even Dean was self absorbed at times, Lanes mom perpetuauated Asian stereotypes. That show was not as cute as people think. It's was a toxicity fest.
It ended up being a show I mostly rewatch for the side characters lol
Speaking of Shameless: Debbie rped a kid and had his baby. And then had the audacity to be upset when him and his family wanted nothing to do with her. That was the last straw for me and I stopped watching shortly after all that.
You have some things confused.
She didn’t r*pe Derek… 😂
She r*ped Matty, the older guy she befriended who refused to date her because she was too young.
Derek was her baby daddy. She didn’t r*pe him, but she did lie about being on birth control.
I expected Debbie as well. Fiona was flawed, but Debbie had us in the beginning. She truly became a disgusting person.
She didn’t rape the father of her baby, she lied to him and said she was on the pill. She raped the older boy she liked by getting him drunk…which makes her even worse
I was wanting this too
Well, i suppose its called shameless for a reason
How they treated & gutted the character of Danaerys is one of the most unforgivable moments in television history. It's utterly inexcusable. It completely wiped out any goodwill many of us had for DB & DB. Not much more to say.
As for Rory on GG, that debacle of a sequel made that character disgusting...and Lorelei as well. Did I just never really see that they were both holier-than-thou, self-absorbed, entitled brats? I cannot fathom how any writer could overcome the nastiness that we saw in the followup of a year to redeem either character...especially Rory. If that's the last we see of Bitch and Bitchier, then good riddance.
Interesting is, that usually, when they slay the female characters in TV series...people are all too happy to bash said female character, finding numerous example where that character "has always been mean/cold/shitty" etc. But with Danaerys they overdid it...for the first time I hear/read people defending a female character and blame the male directors :D
@@endlessstudent3512 But it does actually make sense though, she is a Targaryen and they had a habit of going crazy
Dani going insane was always the final outcome for her, yes the fucked it up in the end but you see her slowly losing it the entire series. First with slight smirk when Drogo killed her brother, to having the slavers bodies hung on the road to the town. It was always right there in front of all of us. Her torching Kings Landing was inevitable regardless of what triggered it
If i remember the books correctly, it was the toss of a coin...50/50. Her Father was crazy, as was her brother. So it would have been probable that she was skipped.@@justjacksholden4108
GoT: I know, right? Jon Snow is the worst military operations planner on the planet, Danaerys was brilliant, it really bugged me that Snow wasn’t killed after his horrible leadership got so many good guys killed.
Top 10 times Alex Karev was the worst
1. when he abandoned Jo
2. when he beat up Deluca
3. when he called Jo trash
4. when he cheated on Izzie with Olivia
5. when he yelled at April
6. when he put up pictures of Izzie in her underwear
7. his affair with Rebecca
8. bullying George
9. stringing along Lexie
10. when he cheated on Izzie with Lexie
For the record, Karev was one of my favorite characters. I know that he had the greatest character development and some of these moments are somewhat justified, but his faults need to be recognized.
Him beating up DeLuca is the worst for me. The only reason he didn't rot in jail for that was plot armor honestly. Absolutely ridiculous. And realistically, Jo would have left him for good, as she was a victim of DV.
These amongst the season where he snitched on meredith for swiping the placebo for webber’s wife was insane !! I couldn’t bear watching him for a while until he got the african kids to get to seattle.
Exactly what it made sense for him to exit via letter.
I never really liked him, I wished he was the one under the bus instead of george.
Izzie had one of the coldest responses to her previous career being outed. "Yes, I stripped my way through college, but now I'm debt free. Meanwhile, every single one of you is over $100k in debt for medical school!" (Not an exact quote, but you kwim) ❤
Joss Whedon always had it out for the popularity of Spike. He even verbally threatened Marsters's job on set.
While the scene in question was a powerful depiction of real life horror in a series full of fantasy, it was also a hit job on a character that the fans had come to adore.
I really find it hard to watch Buffy and Angel now, since I found out that Joss Whedon is an arsehole. He also ruined Cordelia and got her out of the show. Because she got pregnant? With her husband's baby? What the heck man?!! They wrote it in anyway, so she could have stayed. While I liked season 5, Whedon's refusal to allow any character to be happy, ever, just annoyed me.
I am not sure about that, but it's possible. Was it just to be a jerk? I don't think so. Spike's character was never intended to become so popular (or long-lived). I think it was an artistic decision, one made early on. Now did Whedon also have a big ego and thought he always knew best and took advantage of his power? Sadly, it seems, yes.
That's reading a little too much into it. They handled the SA pretty miserably in S7 (it was WAY more about Spike recovering from it than the actual victim, which shows preference for him). And Whedon wasn't the showrunner in S6, that was Marti Noxon. What that decision was is reactionary. The Buffy writers thought "fans" weren't getting that it was a toxic relationship (when it clearly was, they hit each other all the time). So they kept escalating.
I don’t blame Dany for burning King’s Landing. I blame the showrunners! 😂😂😂
Nah, that's the actual story. Blame GRRM, the shorunenrs did not make this up.
Exactly! I thought, I don’t go to a fantasy show to see people practice hypocrisy, abuse power, fail to learn from history, … 🤦🏻♀️
@@sweetsummerchild8156 no it is not the story of Dany at all!!
@@mmkend592 Erm, yes she is even worse in the books. She is a conquerer and a crucifer and frequently fantasizes about laying cities to waste.
@@sweetsummerchild8156 But what she did she has never done in the books...for all we know she may definitely not take that route...this was the writers deciding what her end will look like when the author didn't sign off on it
I will never forgive what was done to Danerys, never, Kings Landing was a shite hole.
They better RESURRECT HER!! HBO IS TRASH FOR THAT...
I heard how bad the last season was and have never watched it. The more I read the better I feel about that
@@lalak2157 Well, here's one angle: knowing the story is absolute shit, if you watch it just from the perspective of enjoying all the special effects it could still be fun. Just keep any other expectations low.
Me either, I was pissed off! Also, Bran was so fucking boring in the last few seasons! Why the Hell did they choose him to become King? Gendry was a far better choice than cardboard standee Bran.
@@lalak2157 Not only story, but some of those episodes were so dark, it drew tons of complaints. We sat in a completely dark room and still couldn't see what was going on.
They could have an entire show without Carrie and no one would notice.
That’s a reach 😂
Well they’d notice it would be a better show.
Woulda been better
Which makes the fact she was GROSSLY overpaid for the first 6 seasons all the more despicable. She never stood up for her costars, at least not until the reboot.
Damn 😂😂
I really can't believe this but I'm going to defend Rory here, not her actual actions but her right to change her mind about her life. If you actually watch the show, you'd know that Lorelai is an extremely problematic parent at times, who doesn't do Rory any favors by filling her with so much praise but in ways, she also holds Rory to unrealistic standards like when Rory isn't allowed to change her mind about wanting to attend Yale instead of Harvard because Lorelai still hasn't resolved her issues with her own parents or telling Rory that she absolutely must stick to the life plan she set out for herself at four years old is not letting a young woman figure herself out in early adulthood and you don't passive aggressively punish your child by giving them the silent treatment because they've screwed up or disappointed you in some way... Lorelai wanted to be her daughter's friend first and on occasion her mother but you can't pick & choose the moments you want to be your child's parent.
I agree. Rory and Lorelai put each other on such a pedestal it was like each of them could do no wrong. Rory made some very immature choices at times, which I guess was not that surprising given how young her character was, but then when you see how Lorelai behaved you could see that it was at least partly a case of mother influencing daughter. I mean, look at how Lorelai treated Max!! Awful.
Lorelai wanted to be the parent she always wanted her parents to be. Which meant she did EVERYTHING opposite her mother. Plus she was so young when she had her she did try to be her friend - when she decided to turn into a mother neither of them knew how to cope
But Rory did go off the rails in the end
I give Lorelai a pass on a lot of things b/c she was so young, but let’s face it, they both were incredibly selfish.
@@katiecrystal1306I was constantly cringing at Lorelai’s immature behaviour. Rory needed a parent, not a buddy.
I feel that Season Six of Buffy was essentially designed to ruin all the main characters. For starters, you mentioned the Spike example, but Willow used magic repeatedly to utterly control Tara's mind and emotions, even after Tara found out and told Willow to stop, and Willow didn't seem to have any hesitation or remorse, and really came off as a narcissistic psychopath for a good chunk of the season.
Yeah, nobody's ever been perfect on that show but it all really culminated in S6. Still, I really enjoy that season, somehow I find it more and more relatable the older I get, the way everybody's so messed up.
And Xander leaving Anya at the altar and then acting like it was a good thing. For me, that moment deserved a spot on this list much more than Spike's attempted rape. I mean, yes, what Spike did was objectively worse, but he was a soulless demon at that point and then he (succesfully) seeked redemption. While Xander ruined Anya's (and his own) chance of happiness without providing any relevant reason and then acting like he did her a favour while also claiming that he still loves her.
i love season six of buffy. it felt like a natural culmination of everything that had been building up until that point. of course things are gonna get weird and fucked up after your slayer friend sacrifices herself to save the world, and then you rip her outta heaven so she can continue to be subjected to the same misery she was forced to deal with since the tender age of fifteen.
@@davidzalesky3971 Xander always suffered from low self-esteem and immaturity.
@@anishinaabae I love some of it, (particularly the musical, which is my favorite episode of the show) and appreciate what they were trying to do, especially in showing that Buffy suffered essentially from depression, and it explored addiction of many kinds. It was artistically daring, and I like when shows tackle tough "serious" subjects. I'm not sure Buffy was a "serious" show in this way. That season something in the tone was just off. Buffy tackled serious subjects before and for the most part, managed to be sad, realistic, dramatic, funny, romantic and still fantastical, all at once. This season just seemed overly realistic in a way the show wasn't as successful at doing. I know this is unpopular, but I don't include S5's The Body in my list of favorites for similar reasons. Yes, it was artistically daring, and the opening scene is brilliant and breaks my heart (SMG deserves a LOT of the credit for making Buffy believable). However, the rest of the episode didn't fit the tone of the show, until the end when Dawn goes to the morgue and sees the body rise up!
Spike- Nope, still Team Spike. That darkness was needed for his character as a wake up call because he was in morality limbo. He was a demon that could love and that's a dangerous combination. He needed to see what he was capable of so he had motivation to get his soul back. Otherwise he would just keep assuming he was as good as he was going to get.
Rory screamed the textbook case of a child who grew up as a parentified child. One that had to be the ‘responsible’ one, the one that all their parents dreams are riding on.
She wasn’t allowed to make teenage mistakes as a teenager. She got screamed at when she accidentally stayed out with Dean. Lorelai outright bullied a child for ‘reminding her of Christopher’ and got his uncle involved and was a major part of the reason he left.
So of course when she got freedom she acted like a teenager. The issue is now it’s not acceptable as an adult.
I agree, when you have too much expectation to be a perfect angel all the time and never have the freedom to act like a normal kid, of course, that rebellion is going to come out eventually. Rory never had a chance to act out as a teen so when she hit a rough spot in college it turned out worse because she was an adult. I also think the overreaction to her wanting to take time off Yale to reassess what she wanted to do with her life was way over the top and unfair on her.
what do you mean by "got his uncle involved"? whose uncle are you talking about?
As a parent, I understand them freaking out on her for staying out all night with Dean, accident or not. You don't know where your child is all night. They didn't call.
@@onceagain2085 The comment is referring to Jess reminding Lorelai of Christopher. So the uncle in question is Luke. I don't remember the exact circumstances but Lorelai was dating Luke at he time (I think) and when she decided that she didn't want Jess around Rory she ended up putting Luke in a bad spot by in essence forcing him to choose her or Jess.
The episode on FRIENDS where Monica expects Chandler to spend his whole life savings on one day (their wedding) irritated me. Just because it was her dream wedding. What about every day after the wedding? I would rather start off my marriage with financial security than blow it all on one day. That’s just ridiculous to me. And I’m a woman. We had a smaller wedding and used ours for a down payment on a home to start our family in. To each their own I guess.
100% agree.
Yes, your wedding is something you wanna remember forever, but you need to remember it for the right reasons, not because it's the reason you and your husband went broke.
Completely agree! I remember how bad that episode pissed me off! It was incredibly selfish
Tbh I've found every character in the main cast obnoxious and irritating. Except Chandler, he made it bearable
The redeeming quality here though is that Monica changed her mind and agreed not to do it while Ross never let the break thing go.
lol imagine being able to buy a house instead of a wedding these days
Disagree. Dany and Spike in particular were the victims of terrible writing. I didn't hate the character - I hated the people making the horrific decisions.
I was truly hating Nate but Beard’s explanation of second chances helped me understand why he was welcomed back. ❤
I'm one of the rare people who defend the Spike attacking Buffy scene. While I hate watching it and shake afterwards if I do, I get the motive behind it and it does make sense for Spike's character.
1. Spike and Buffy always had a toxic and abusive relationship. Look at the episode where the building crumbles around them as a symbol for what they were. Destructive.
2. While it's played for laughs, Spike has always associated love and sex with violence. When he's human and hurt by Cecily's rejection of his love, Drusilla seduces him and bites/kills him with him misunderstanding that she was grooming him. He also said that "if I want Drusilla back, I have to be the man she fell in love with. I'll find her wherever she is, tie her up, torture her until she likes me again". Plus his version of proving his love for Buffy was staking Drusilla. He also was an abusive ass to Harmony, but everyone who claims to be a fan seems to forget that.
3. Again, played up for laughs, but Buffy also in her own way assaulted Spike. When she was invisible, she breaks into his home and they sleep together. Now when he gets upset with her about this being the only way he can have her fully, she pleasures him after him telling her to get out and get out of his life. Again, it's more played up for laughs so it feels like "hey this is ok" but in reality he didn't give consent on that and she didn't respect his wishes to leave.
So while it hurts to see him behave that way, he's looking at this moment as she just needs to remember how we are when we are "together". Her resisting is always typical in their relationship so he thinks she's just playing hard to get. The reason why I was able to forgive him after was because you see that he's not there when she screams and when she pushes him off her, he looks so shook and devastated at what he did. He realizes the monster he is and that's why he goes to get his soul, he hates the monster he's become. It's insanely disturbing but a great character arch that I wish more people would give a second look at, including James.
Exactly, so true.
There was also an underlining factor to that scene as well. Joss Whedon hated the fact that all the fans loved Spike and wanted him with Buffy. He had hoped that this scene would get fans to stop begging for the relationship and maybe even stop liking Spike so much. Which actually failed.
Though I can understand James Marsters on the scene, it had to have been intense and the fact you have to run a scene multiple times for them to pick out the best take. That had to have been rough to remain in that moment and mind set.
And I agree, I hate that Buffy SA"d Spike and everyone just laughed about it. So, he was basically doing what she had done, except she had a soul and he didn't making her in my opinion worse.
So true thank u
I really hate the scene because it is so bleakly realistic.
THANK YOU! I was scrolling though the comment section in search of someone pointing out the things you pointed out!
Love this comment! For a lot of people, I feel like they're the sum of what Cordelia says in Angel season four while possessed and manipulating Angel: "Knowing is different than living it." For a lot of people, I think if it doesn't happen onscreen then it doesn't count in the same way if it did happen onscreen. Just like Angel and Angelus are different, Spike with a soul is different than one without a soul. When Spike finally gets a soul, his goal changes from "must get the girl to love me" to "prove to her I love her even if she doesn't want me." This is evident in the final season with how he interacts with her when Angel shows back up and they kiss. He could have gone into a rage and started a fight, falling prey to the First's provocation of "that b****," like a soulless Spike would have. Instead, he chose to communicate calmly and hear Buffy out. You come up with examples better but that's one that always stuck out to me.
Without trying to excuse what Spike did (it’s the only moment I ever felt disgusted at my favorite character) he was soulless and naturally leaned evil no matter how good he tried to be.
Buffy did forgive him after he became ensouled, which he fought for because he was horrified by his own actions but he earned it through building trust.
Kind of like what she told Wood, “the man you’re mad at no longer exists.” Even she states in the comics she can’t hold him accountable for what he did as a soulless monster.
@@jnunn525 and the thing is Angelus feels zero remorse for any pain he inflicted on Buffy because he hates her. He killed Jenny because she wanted to help restore him. Spike’s immediate response to knowing he truly hurt Buffy was to kill the monster within.
Also, bravo to James for sticking to his principles. I hate that he and SMG had to film something so uncomfortable.
It's interesting that, the attempted assault aside, Spike was a better person than Angel; once his soul leaves, Angelus is far more twisted and evil than Spike, never trying to be good, unless tortured by guilt when his soul returns. Spike's villainy was originally stopped by the Institute chip that prevented him from hurting people, however, he eventually made a conscious choice to no longer kill people, even though he had no soul compelling him. Angel was forcibly given his soul back, whereas Spike went on an arduous struggle to earn his soul back.
@@jnunn525There's even a scene in a flashback in Angel that shows Angel assaulting a young woman with Darla. The soulless vampires are evil, and that's the point.
Yeah, but Spike didn't go to win his soul back. He wanted to "give buffy what she deserves" by removing the chip so he could kill her. When the time for his wish to be granted, he says,"I want to give buffy what she deserves." I think his subconscious wanted his soul back so he could be the man she deserved. It was ambiguous on purpose.
@@jewels2799He did actually go to get his soul back. It was worded that way when he talked to the demon because the writers wanted to have the surprise cliffhanger moment, but they confirmed that his intention was to get his soul back. Removing the chip wouldn't have really mattered if he wanted the kill Buffy since it hadn't worked on her since she was brought back to life.
Daenerys's 180 at the end was a whiplash event for me. She was as crazy as her father who planned to smoke the city as well. It was not in character.
Yes, I agree! It was way too sudden. But the writers were ready for "better pastures" and were done I guess. They rushed the last at least 2 seasons.
It was such a good show too. What a letdown at the end.
It’s been years and I’m still so angry at that ending. Dany had fought so hard and so long, had devoted herself to being a good, just leader and ensuring people of every class and community had equal opportunity and tyrannical rule like that of her father and Cersei would become obsolete. But the loss of two of her dragons and her closest friend was enough to make her burn thousands of people? Did the writers forget we watched her survive the loss of her husband and child, struggling through the desert half dead, that she wasn’t so fragile she was going to snap just like that. Every character just went so downhill, Tyrion apparently loses all his cunning, wit, intelligence, strategy and planning and just “drinks and knows things”. Varys who was arguably at the same level as Tyrion became equally ignorant and useless. Bran seemed borderline sociopathic in his complete lack of feeling for anyone or anything. Jaime decided to toss years worth of character development and growth down and the drain and abandon Brienne because…he found out Cersei wanted him dead? Jon lost all motivation and drive, and apparently the ability to speak in full sentences. Euron, a supposedly deeply dark and frightening character, was like a bad Captain Jack Sparrow cos player. Honestly? I just tell myself the entirety of season 7 and 8 were just a prophetic dream of Dany’s. She’d even said “my dreams come true”, and was a descendant of Daenys The Dreamer. So the final two seasons were just a warning dream. And now that she knows what to change, crisis averted. Insert rational, intelligent, satisfying ending here.
I wouldn't call it a 180, exactly. I started calling her the Mad Queen when reading the first book because it was horribly obvious where GRRM was going with it. Her character practically had a big banner with flashing lights that read, "You have to love me so you can be shocked in the end!" The show made that even more apparent. The problem is, it worked too well. Anytime they tried to show her potential for evil, fans just glossed over or justified it. And instead of seeing that and making things a bit more obvious early on, they just shrugged and slapped you all in the face with it. Don't get me wrong, the writing was crap. But the writing was also on the wall, so to speak. You just had to be open to seeing it.
At least the TV show had an ending though. More than we'll get from the books.
Totally agree. If only GRRM would have finished writing Winds of Winter. Sigh.
Actually, Aiden was the one who broke up with Carrie both times. The first time he broke up with her was after she told him that she was having an affair with Big. She knew there was a STRONG possibility that he would break up with her but she still didn’t want him to leave her. The second time he really wanted to get married but she claimed she wasn’t ready. Then he broke up with her because he felt like she was never going to want to marry him. Ultimately it was Aiden that broke up with Carrie because he knew that she would never love him the way that he loved her. I think the fans were just annoyed that Carrie could never get it together for the seemingly perfect guy. On the surface it always looked like she was self sabotaging (and she kind of was lol). However as a fan of the show I’m glad she didn’t end up with Aiden - they were never right for each other. I just wish she had let him go a lot sooner, before she hurt him. She spent way too much time trying to convince herself that he was the one when she knew he wasn’t.
I agree completely. As a woman who tried to talk herself into being in love with men (twice!) who weren't right for her, I relate.
Agree, they were a mis-match. The initial draw for Carrie was that he was the anti-Big, open, easy, no drama, always available nice guy. But also kind of boring.
You watched and grasped the storyline, summed it up accurately. I'm a fellow fan of the series.
Did anyone else cheer when Burger dumped Carrie on a postit?
Honestly just rewatched this exact episode and I did laugh bc Carrie is THE WORST!!!
No. Carrie really liked Burger. I did, too until he pulled that low class move.
@@blu48 - Yes. But I don’t like Carrie. I find her shallow and narcissistic, so I was happy Burger dumped her on a postit.
@@RebeccaStamm That was a funny episode.
Aidan broke up with her. Carrie treating aidan like crap while also cheating on him, is what made her a villain
He did the first time because she cheated on him. She broke their engagement on their 2nd time around.
They were on a break!!! I stand with Ross.
I've always agreed that they were on a break, but ultimately it doesn't matter since sleeping with someone a few hours after taking a break, still makes you immature, selfish, and thoughtless. I wouldn't want to get back together with someone after that either.
@@launchpadmcquack8142
@launchpadmcquack8142 really...what makes it immature too not be faithful too the person who literally just dumped you and then on top of that invites the one person that you were insecure about..
It's selfish to not stay faithful to someone who just dumped me..give me a fking break..Isn't the one who has hasteningly ended the relationship but expecting the other person to wallow die over them the selfish one?? How long do you suggest he remain faithful??
and they did not take a break, which is the definition of immature behavior, Rachel fk broke up with him. Period
Ross Poldark assaulting his former fiancé and cheating on his wife Demelza and then having the ABSOLUTE GALL to not take any responsibility and try to justify his horrific actions.
Like from that point on, why would you even want to continue supporting someone that horrific? The minute he started trying to justify it, I was fucking done. Never watched another episode after that.
That's what i wrote, too! What a terrible character assassination.
Wait, what? I never got that far in the show, when does that happen?
Yes, I completely agree! It was absolutely horrifying that he responded to his wife's hurt by telling her he only hurt her pride, and showed no empathy whatsoever. Disgusting.
So angry that happened Ross was amazing until they ruined him with one bad decision. Ugh. I love Demelza. Only watched it for her after that.
Poldark was literally the WORST husband! I felt terrible for Demelza throughout the entire series, having to put up with him.
I’m not a hundred 100 in agreement about spike. I feel they screwed him over. His relationship with Buffy started with her almost forcing herself on him. Hitting kicking him while he tried to tell her no bad idea so the fact their foreplay was Normal a physical fight. Obviously rape is hopific and he stopped when he saw it wasn’t foreplay. They were both kiss me, no kill me. He did that with out a soul but felt so guilty and loved her so much he sought out a soul to make sure he never hurt her. It’s so complex how could they have found a better scenario for him to realise he need to do soul possibly, but I don’t know what would worked better in that situation they needed a motive for his seeking redemption. The cross scene was genuinely moving as Jesus died On a cross to pay for our sins and spike lying on a Cross to defeat his own sin! So I still liked him.
James Marston is a lovely human I met him this week and he was so kind
Lucky you! Yeah, I loved that scene with the cross too. It's funny how much religious symbolism there was in the show for an atheist!
@@TruthisBeauty2007 yeah he signed my sheet music from the music episode. With keep fighting. Days when fighting is hard and giving up seems easier. I’m very much but spike said no so let’s go. So kind I also mentioned buffy helped one of my kids feel ok about coming out after we watched buffy together. It made him so so happy. I swear he isn’t aging.
Sorry, but he didn't "seek out a soul to make sure he never hurt her" - he was looking for something to give him an advantage so he could "give her what she deserves." He actually was looking to "make her pay" because although he was horrified at what he'd done, even moreso was he hurt and pissed off at her rejection of his love. But as they say, "be careful what you wish for because you just might get it" which is what happened to Spike. What Buffy deserved was a demon/warrior with a soul (just like her) and that's why Spike's soul was returned.
@@overcomingobstaclescreates1695 that’s the good thing about buffy it can be interpreted. In different ways. It’s seem a few agree with me and I think people will agree with your interpretation. (No malice intended but starting with a you a wrong with neither of us knowing the thought process of a fictional character). Your argument is interesting. I said I wasn’t 100% about his good or evil.
Buffy attacks spike but it's filmed and treated like it was okay even hot when she was invisible. They needed to treat the scene the same or not have them at all.
This one of the rare times that I 100% side with Ross. When Monica asks about their anniversary dinner the next morning, Rachel says they broke up. When Ross listens to the voicemail she left THE SAME NIGHT, she calls it a break up. To suddenly change it to just a break because she didn’t like what Ross did as a single man(no matter how recently) is straight up gaslighting. If she admitted in her own words that it was a break up, she had no right to hold that against him. She may have been hurt by him hooking up with someone the same night that she dumped him (and for good reason), but he wasn’t wrong and owed her absolutely no apology for what he did when he was single.
Omg FINALLY!!!! Someone who understands my views. I've always felt like the "we were on a break" thing was such B.S. hell, even Monica agreed, but because Rachel got mad, she backed down. Since we're on the subject of gaslighting, let's talk about that 18 paged letter. I swear that was gaslighting to a T. Homegirl really forced Ross to read a letter in which he's blamed for EVERYTHING and he can't get mad? Damn. Fans are quick to call Ross toxic, but she was worse.
@@rachelmartin5187 Right! Ross certainly had his problems, but I just don’t get how that made people so blind to Rachel’s.
@Slappys Agreed. She had just as many flaws as him, if not more.
I never thought it was that Ross owed Rachel an apology, it’s that he was more concerned with justifying that he hurt her than showing sympathy that he hurt her.
Yup
There were so many killings on Dexter but the Debra storyline scared me the most
Dexter was falling off the rail after the Trinity killer wrapped up but that Deb falling in love with him was just unnecessary
Writer's block is a terrible thing. "Hey, Jennifer and Michael were a thing, why don't we create a forbidden love plot between Deb and Dex? That way we can all get home before rush hour?"
That was so off the rails, I stopped watching.
Yep. Never forgave Andy for treating Erin like crap. The boat scene kinda gave me hope that after she got over the heartache she would find true love. And she did💕
Agreed! That scene was character assassination for Andy, but growth for Erin. She learned that she deserved much better, and she and Pete were so sweet together.
@@mandyland739 Good point. Sad for Andy though.
The friends thing never made me dislike Ross. He had faults, just every other character on the show. But they were genuinely broken up and Rachael just continued to bring it up.
No they were not. And even for argument's sake if they were, what does it say about him to go and sleep with the first thing that moves not even double digit hours after breaking up with the supposed love of his life? Ross apologists very conveniently forget that part.
@@BigTuna-lt3sfNobody “forgets that part”; it’s just not relevant because they were, in fact, on a break, and therefore not together. It really doesn’t matter whether it’s been an hour or a month - if they’re not together, they can sleep with whomever they want.
@@nancyclark1609 it very much is relevant to why Rachel was so hurt. People’s emotions don’t run on semantics.
What always annoyed me about that plotline was that Rachel's reasons for breaking up with him were perfectly reasonable (not that she needed any reason other than she didn't want to go out with him anymore). But in the future, when they fight, does she ever say, "you weren't supportive of my career," or, "you didn't trust me around my good-looking coworker even though I had given you no reason not to"? No. She says, "you cheated on me," because he slept with someone else after she dumped him.
I never disliked anyone. It was a sitcom and it was funny. They turned it into a soap opera but still funny for me.
I mean I hate Big and Carrie's relationship but Aidan was never meant with Carrie. They are too different and don't have same values. Just because he's a great guy that doesn't mean that she should choose him over Big. They would not last anyway.
In my opinion Carrie and Big deserved each other. They were both toxic. She would always light up like Christmas lights when around Big despite how he treated her. And she always wanted to go back for more of that toxic treatment.
Ross wasn’t sweet and goofy, he was a narcissist who was obsessed with Rachel.
no, actually Rachel was a narcissist obsessed with Ross and manipulative awful cruel hypocrite.
@@ToCam-fl8ry I didn’t say Rachel wasn’t a narcissist
He is the definition of "would you rather be right? Or would you rather be happy?"
How Rachel was the most popular girl in school and good friends with hugely overweight Monica is beyond me; a doctor father, credit card plus two sisters who love brands and with a massive nose? Never made sense.
Yup
I stopped watching The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel after she used Shy Baldwin as a punchline at his own show. She had earlier in the season seen firsthand the physical danger he was in as a black, gay man in 1960's America, and still decided it was okay to out him onstage as part of her standup routine.
YESSSS! I watched the rest of the series anyway in the hope something redeeming would happen, but it just got worse and worse. Then the last season is like every episode was written by a different set of high schoolers doing an essay contest only none of them consult the writers from the other episodes to even try and connect the story into something coherent. What WAS a promising show with an adorable lead character went in the dustbin of history really fast. You didn't miss anything by quitting the show.
Same. Felt it was coming and was so disappointed. Couldn’t watch any more.
I stopped liking Rory when she started cheating with a married man and had absolutely zero remorse over it.
I actually stopped watching the show completely after this. I just couldn’t keep watching.
I don't know if this counts but I;'d say Frank from Moesha . With him being such a hypocrite, He judged Mo for everything she did but yet had an afair with Mo's mother and kept Dorian hidden as a secret love child. Cause he didn't tell Dorian that he wasn't his uncle not father and also sending Myles to his room. Than wondering why h starts smoking weed.
Rachel was the most toxic, manipulative, cruel, and selfish female character ever on TV, she beats Carrie by 1000000000000000000000 points! I love (sarcasm) how Rachel fans, this channel included, especially Rachel's female feminist fans, every time, fail to address how absolutely awful Rachel was to all the other women on the show, mostly Ross' other girlfriends, but also Monica and Phoebe at times (like when she never cared to clean the apartment and leave all work to Monica, was incredibly selfish and always stole Monica's moments because she just couldn't share the spotlight with anyone). She should be number 1 here.
I also agree. I never liked Rachel right from season 1
Alex's arch was AMAZING with Jo. And they went and effed it up SO HARD.
I grew to dislike Carrie Bradshaw very much.
Me too alot actually
She was the perfect example of a completely selfish person
What sealed it for me was when she demanded that Charlotte give her diamonds ring to her so she could buy her apartment. That seemed very unreasonable considering how much Carrie had spent on shoes!
I loved it when Sam pointed out her down-payment was in her boxes of Monolos 😂
@@charlotte-m5dyup
Can’t get behind Ross being on this list. Always supported him in the “we were on a break” dispute because, the fact is, that they WERE on a break.
I’m on team Ross. Rachel makes it sound like a break up, not a temporary break.
I kind of agree with that too.
I can see this from both perspective and can see why both saw themselves as the right one. Which of course was great writing and was successful in causing debates over it almost 20 years later.
Aaaah ....unagi 👍🏾
The writers intentionally left it ambiguous so people wouldn't hate this person or that. In a vacuum what Ross did is totally forgivable imho (ie they were on a break, the cast said as much). What people kind of miss in this conversation is they were a nightmare as a couple: Ross was insanely jealous and didn't trust Rachel.
Considering how the same situation would have destroyed him I think he is pretty lenient when it comes to his own mistakes. Even the letter thing he fucked up. His feelings have to be acknowledged and cared for by everyone, but he never shows strength of character for someone else's benefit.
Tv characters I fell out of love with:
1. Eddie Janko (Blue Bloods).Once she got married to Jamie she turned into a Karen who thinks she runs the entire NYPD.
2. Phoebe Buffay (Friends). I hate how she became a full on bully toward Chandler after he and Monica got together. When she revealed that Monica originally wanted to sleep with Joey I was appalled. Why Monica didn't slap her right then and there I'll never know.
3. Lilly Aldrin (How I met your mother). From dumping Marshall to breaking up all of Teds relationships I got sick of her selfishness.
4. Martin Payne (Martin). Although I shipped them hard as a kid, watching as an adult made me realize that Martin was a toxic partner. When he ghosted Gina to join a cult, I saw his character in a different light.
5. Dwayne Wayne (A different world). When he cheated on Whitley then crashed her wedding to Byron I was through. Dont get me wrong that episode was emmy worthy, but it was still an awful thing to do.
6. Toni Childs (Girlfriends). When she got the whole group to turn on Joan when Joan was developing a social life outside of her main friends it was clear that she hadnt matured at all and really wasn't happy unless everyone around her was miserable.
7. Rory Gilmore (Gilmore Girls). Her affair with Dean was the beginning. I really started to hate her when she wrote that scathing article about rich people, even though she was just as privileged.
8. Haley James Scott (One Tree Hill) when she started her emotional affair with Chris Keller I was annoyed. She constantly called Lucas out for being a cheater, but she was freaking married for goodness sake.
9. Rufus Humphrey (Gossip Girl). When he hooked up with Ivy and started acting all scandalous I was so mad. He was literally the last sane person on the show and wound up being just as bad.
10. Christy Plunkett (Mom). Her character got really annoying after she started gambling and got them homeless. She constantly told the family to have faith, but refused to acknowledge her mistakes.
Good lord, you watch a lot of TV!
Haley was literally my favorite character but by leaving nate she went down to the least favorite one.. It was inexuseable and stupid though I didn't like lucas much too.. Only decent one was nathan
Sorry I’ve ways been with Ross on the “we were on a break” thing.
I actually didn't mind Rory dropping out of Yale. It was the first time she actually did what felt right to her. Even if she ended up regretting it, I'm glad that she stood up for what she wanted for once.
There were a number of reasons to be frustrated with Carrie, but she did not break up with Aiden. She wasn’t ready to get married, she wouldn’t allow him to pressure her into marriage. He dumped her because she would not marry him.
We pretend Game of Thrones' last season didn't happen. And Dany's actions are out of character because Dumb and Dumber don't understand writing.
D&D rushed it bec they had lost interest by the last season. Also, they had been in talks about helming the next Star Trek franchise and we're so busy floating over and preparing for that, that they didn't finish what they started.
In a fitting twist of fate, the new Star Trek franchise was cancelled in pre- pre- production.
The White Walkers gotcha, D&D !
Carrie and big had insane chemistry. They were both sort of despicable and it worked.
Dany's abrupt change gets me so mad to this day that I can't rewatch GOT.
Me, too.
Also, way to screw over HBO. They could have done more series with the remaining characters, except that D&D killed most of them off.
Um no one turned on spike. We ALL knew their relationship was always doomed. Them finding peace when he got his soul back made the scene worth it. The fans understood they had to show the evil was still there and something he couldn't control without a soul. It was major character growth for both characters.
I've meet James several times now. There's No actor I enjoy talking to more than him. The man really is a total sweetheart and he appreciates his fans. I think its a shame Hollywood has screwed him over because he's also one of the best actors out there. I've seen him convincingly do everything.
If you ever want to meet a great guy and actor... go find James Marsters. You'll love him. He has a heart like Keanu Reeves. Some how he survived Hollywood with his soul in tact too.
james marsters is a fucking creep who wrote an entire song about how attracted he was to an underage michelle trachtenberg. great guy my ass.
I didn't turn on Spike, I turned on the writers. Joss Whedon always hated how much fans loved Spike. Sorry not sorry, Joss.
@@jessicaj8787 joss is a dick, especially when he doesn't get his way and he thinks he was teaching the next generation like a little cult. Except he had the wrong Gen. Gen X was the main fan base so of course we related with Billy idol. Joss is the one who let him be punk rock. Lol
I think what really pissed him off is Dru knew what the show needed more than he did. Dru brought in spike because they were doing some play together and meshing really well. SHE pushed joss to keep spike around a little longer. One more day turned into the show stealing end of the series. So I think his real anger is Dru stole his show and remade it in HER image while she was there. He can't hate on her so of course he blames the fans because THEY made spike a funny and likable character... and we liked him. It's such a stupid thing to be upset about. You hate the person who saved your show??? Like I said joss is a dick. Smh
Lily from HIMYM saying was marshal was being more selfish then she had ever been.
Dead. Character literally died right there
Never liked the character Carrie Bradshaw
Same here. Add SJP in those feelings.
When Elena said that Stefan treats her like a broken toy - all he did was support her and try to help her.
Don't remember that, but I'd finally had it with Elena when she got together with Damon and was "having fun" drinking people's blood at a party. Bonnie didn't think it was good, either! Really didn't like Damon when he killed Lexi, either; he wasn't redeemed in my eyes until he got close to Bonnie--but we all know how that played out.
@@TruthisBeauty2007 why y'all act like stefan was a saint that man killed equally number of people as Damon but he gets away with it coz he pretends well
The problem is that Rachel's fans are always making excuses for her, even though she's done more terrible things than any other character on the show, yet they refuse to understand Ross' human mistakes. Yes, sleeping with Chloe was a mistake, but it wasn't a conscious betrayal. Rachel had broken up with Ross earlier, and that is an indisputable fact, and it wasn't a 'break' but a final breakup, because Rachel went to Ross the next morning and asked if she could be his girlfriend again - again - so yes, it was a final breakup. But of course, even if it was a final breakup, Ross still made the mistake of sleeping with Chloe right away, and no one is saying it wasn't a mistake, but there are some extenuating circumstances. First of all, Ross was drunk and Chloe has taken advantage of drunk Ross. It's clear when you watch that scene at the bar between Ross and Chloe that Chloe was just waiting for this opportunity because she's always fancied Ross.
And Ross was drunk, so Ross never slept with Chloe because he wanted to, consciously, no one has complete control over themselves when they're drunk. So the truth is that Ross and Rachel were both right and wrong, and since they both never stopped loving each other, deep down, as their entire history has proven, they both should have swallowed their pride and tried to compromise and get back together much earlier. Ross and Rachel were a classic on-an-off couple, and the fact that fans and the media are still, to this day, having passionate discussions about their relationship proves that they were a brilliantly written on-an-off couple, that's the irony :)
Beeing drunk ist no excuse.
Ross just fucked up and instead of seeing what he has done (hurting Rachel) he just yelled again and again that they were on a break... yeah well, this also doesn't make it better, because if you were on just a break, than this is still cheating especially when you do it like 2 hours after the phone call.
A break is a break. Rachel is just an entitled narcisst.
At least he'll sleep well......HE STILL HAS HER LETTER 😂
YES, everything you said. Thank you!! 💯 x 💯
Brandon cheating on Kelly in the original Beverly Hills 90210. They really wanted him out of this "good guy"-role, but it was just not in his character.
I really felt out of love with rory when she dropped out of yale
I thought it was worse when Carrie invited Big to Aiden's cabin.
Hot mess
That was crazy 😂
What I remember most about that episode is her insane shrieking over a squirrel. In the country.
I think that more than hating a character I hated writers for writing some storylines that seemed inconsistent with the character development they had created, so I didn't take it that seriously. But some characters just showed what they really were like , like Carrie and Danaerys. What they did was no surprise to me!
I agree. I hated it when the writers of the Big Bang Theory started dumbing down Sheldon. It made no sense and fortunately, they didn't continue with that storyline or they would have lost me.
That moment in Buffy is the reason spike went to get his soul, he realised that while he was soulless and capable of doing these horrible things he would never be worthy of her, and even though he knew she would never love him back, he couldn't live knowing he could ever do that to her again.
Sad thing is, people WITH souls do these horrible things all the time.
Akshully no, he didn't set out to get his soul. He wanted to punish her for rejecting his love, but he got a plot twist instead.
For the record, Nate wasn't jealous of Ted - he was jealous that Ted began to shift his attention to Roy. It brought up abandonment issues and fear of not being seen after he'd been so validated by Ted.
I still think the Ross hate is ridiculous, it’s a comedy, if you watch any comedy that goes beyond 3 seasons there’s always this inclination to take a normal character & crank it up to eleven & make them an extreme version of themselves so they become more neurotic, self involved & just plain goofy…
friends did it twice with Ross & Joey, look at Joey in the first couple seasons, he had some moments that made him lack common sense but by season 7-10 they made him
Appear really dumb to the point that you gotta ask how is he still alive with his lack of intelligence
Friends has some of the worst Flanderization of all their characters. They are all normal people with a few quirks in Season 1. By Season 10 Chandler only speaks in punchlines, Ross is just a bundle if neurosis and anxiety, Joey is essentially full on special needs, Monica is a screetching harpy, Rachel is so ditzy she can barely dress herself, and Pheobe is just straight up an insane sociopath lol
I thought Monica was extremely annoying after she and Chandler became serious about one another. Little quirks that were cute in the earlier seasons became obsessions and she was very shrill and demanding. I also thought Chandler became too deferential to her - it was somewhat emasculating for his character. It’s good to love your significant other and care about their feelings, but not to the point that you lose everything that made you the person you were before being involved with them.
@@lim4275 they didn’t change at all in my eyes after getting together
@@TheMarine316
To me they did, but I understand that it’s open to interpretation - that’s a big part of what makes it such a great show, IMO.
@@lim4275 💯
Nah. Carrie and Aidan weren't right for each other. And she didn't actually break up with him. She didn't want to rush in to marriage because she wasn't sure, and he clearly didn't trust her and was trying to force the marriage to make up for that lack of trust. He basically gave her an ultimatum - get married now or never get married. She said she didn't know if she'd ever be ready for marriage and so he left. To me, this was the right decision for both characters. The cheating should have been what was on the list.
Yup my thoughts exactly. Aidan was the one who ended it. The cheating was the worst thing Carrie did. Not wanting to get married because you’re unsure is better than rushing into marriage just to make your partner trust you.
Rachel treated Ross like her property, Rachel was a narcissist obsessed with Ross, period. Ross didn't actually run after her, after they broke up the second time, it was Rachel who constantly ran after Ross, including to his wedding to stop it! Ross only went crazy after their break up when she started dating Joey, and that was understandable, and btw, no one EVER mentions how Ross actually gave Joey and Rachel his blessing at the end of The One When Ross is Fine. Now, remind us, what Rachel did to Ross, and all his girlfriends, when Ross tried to move on? hm? you don't remember, do you?
First, she couldn't forgive him even tho he didn't do anything wrong - she did break up with him, period. And then she insulted, and ruined Julie, Bonnie, Emily, and the girl from the shop, she had the same modus operandi when it came to hurting all of Ross's girlfriends, so throwing ugly slurs at them behind their back, manipulating Ross so his relationship with them would fall apart, ruin their hair/appearance, and literally kiss and go after Ross when he was with them!
She was the one who started to flirt with Ross at the beach house when Ross was with Bonnie, and she didn't care at all that Ross had a girlfriend, the same was with Julie - Rachel kissed Ross when he was Julie, so you can all miss me with your crying about 'poor Rachel' when she was supposedly 'cheated on' (no, she wasn't; again - she broke up with Ross before he got drunk and slept with Chloe). Rachel was the one who didn't care if she destroyed other people's relationships for her own selfish reasons, she didn't care if the guy cheated on other women with her, so why she is constantly presented as the victim? She wasn't.
She ran after Ross all the time, sabotaging all his other relationships, then she rejected him, and she repeated this process over and over, she just played with his heart 24/7!! She constantly lied - like when she blamed the Vegas wedding on Ross, yet only at the end when Ross brought her divorce papers, she admitted it was all her idea and she wasn't that drunk then. Yet she attacked Ross earlier because of this marriage 24/7, and she didn't say a word it was literally her idea in the finest place! She constantly mocked and attacked Ross, his job, and his love life, she NEVER took responsibility for her awful acts and faults! Rachel was a selfish, spoiled, manipulative, hypocritical narcissist and eternally immature, spoiled, rich daddy girl, and human with an ugly soul, period!
Carrie Bradshaw became the worst the moment when SJP started to take control over the show.
She was always in charge of the show - she pitched and produced it
Well, blame the writers, not the characters or actors.
I stopped watching "Grey's Anatomy" after Alex Karev left. 16 years of character development was ruined with that letter. Just episodes prior, he made a vow to Jo that he wouldn't leave her, like his dad did to his mom and family, when his mom had a breakdown and then BOOM! That's exactly what he did to Jo.
Jo was hated at first when she came in, but eventually became a very likable character due to her storyline of domestic violence and sexual assault. She (the actress) gave a great portrayal of trauma and PTSD and how to cope and deal with said trauma. Only to be traumatized again by the one person who should've known better.
Justin Chambers wanted to leave the show, but it would've been better to kill his character rather than have him ghost everyone.
Fell out of love with Rory Gilmore when she started having an affair with a married Dean. Her claims that he was her Dean just showed her entitlement. It was all downhill with her character after that.
I thought Aiden broke up with Carrie for the second time when she refused to marry him? She didn't break up with him, he left her, at least thats how I remember it...
I agree with Ross. Rachel broke up with him and then had Mark over. I would have been crushed and possibly done something stupid.
Rory was bad since after Jess. She just didn’t grow up. Maybe because she thought she was more mature than everyone else… but than she stopped growing up. The Rory at the beginning of her college years and the Rory at the end of the original series are one and the same. And it’s crazy! Nobody goes through college without changes because you will meet new people and learn new things. But she’s the same. And everyone else isn’t. Rory rejected Jess even though she still loved him, and later she reject Logan even though she still loves him. She used Dean to lose her virginity and than, after Jess act like he is us- and the voice of reason (“why did you drop out of Yale “), she almost uses him to get back at Logan. And do we need to talk about the Netflix series? She can’t have a mature relationship with her boyfriend, but is Logan’s lover even though he’s about to get married. And the only original idea she had isn’t hers at all, but she has to thank Jess for it.
I can't believe people still arguing that "We were on a break" scenario. After Rachel dumped Ross, Ross, in his heartbroken agony, also drunk, slept with another woman. It wasn't just another argument in their relationship, Rachel DUMPED HIM! They officially weren't a couple anymore. I think 99% of the fans of the show agree with that. Also, compaired to what a lot of (if not most) people do in the real world (cheating, while in a marriage), blaming Ross for having a one night stand after a break-up, feels far-fetched.
Please it was Rachel who was always horrible towards Ross.
She spoiled his marriage, she always blamed him for everything and ignored her shortcomings.
Rachel was a horrible character.
Rory lost all my sympathy back when she skipped her own MOTHERS GRADUATION to see Jess in NYC back in season 2. she was alias bratty and self-entitled, Its cause everyone praised the grass she walked on and thought she could do no wrong, and continued to baby her well into her adulthood.
That and when she let Jess crash the car that Dean built her.
See that we were on a break thing made me dislike Rachel. She broke up with him, he was devastated, and he made a mistake. Rachel gaslighted him for years telling him they weren’t actually broken up because she changed her mind the next day.
Exactly. I was on Ross' Side for that. They were legit on a break that she initiated. Then she was mad that he slept elvish someone who wanted him? No.
Ross was did nothing wrong. She broke up with him. Full stop.
Carrie breaking up with Aidan actually made all the sense, if you really watched the show
Yes, she was always a complete narcissist, I definitely also noticed that long before the Aidan breakup.