it doesn't shift only the fundamental phase but all individial harmonics related to their own wavelength, as the cycle lenght of each harmonic is smaller and smaller you don't notice it as much as the fundamental
Hmm, actually it should be half-length for each octave. I think I haven't seen those ones really affected by the plugin, where do you see it/ have the info? Could be it was more a guess what they do on observation.
@@Psiger on voxengo pha page description. Or you can try this: generate a 50 Hz unfiltered saw. apply a 90 degrees shift with pha, then compare vs shifting only the fundamental on a scope
Indeed they write that. I will check that as I'm still not 100 percent bought. But it's absolutely possible that I may be wrong. I still think the technique might be interesting but I'm still experimenting with that. If all frequencies moved equally according to their wavelength etc., it should be the same as not splitting it and moving the sound (without the filter and amp env). I try that once I'm back from Portugal.
@@Psiger yes sure it still is an interesting way and what matter is the results^^. but no it would be equal to moving the sound only if all frequencies would be shifted of same *absolute* time amount (ie some fraction of the time of the fundamental), whereas here its in expressed in degrees , mean its *relative* to each freq, so ie if fundamental is shifted of t, 1rst harmo will be only shifted of t/2, 2nd of t/3 and so on
I learned with dozens of hours of trial and error, coaches, masterclasses, etc. but I condensed all that knowledge into an easy and super detailed course. There is a video-only version and one with homework and feedback. Drop me an email: psiger.records @ Gmail com and I can send you more details.
I noticed that you were working on the 'Mid' band of the shaperbox/volume shaper, you have to actually click in the area to the left of the band splitter to activate the 'Low' band. I'm sure you already know this, and missed clicking on it, but thought I'd point it out for anyone following along with the tutorial.
Also instead of matches peaks, focus on matching zero crossing points. And controlling the amplitude of the sine can just be done with the volume knob.
Good experiment but any fx you place on those tracks will shift it all anyhow, especially when you think of a reverb, delay, saturation, even EQ of done without consideration. Nothing wrong with starting it all with this in mind.. Good videos as ever.
I know that it does you just need to align it then after you placed the FX. Let's assume you created K&B like this and then it's in phase. You place an EQ in the bass channel then it's out of phase. You can now start aligning it again by moving the phase until it fits with the EQ ;-) and yes it may change how the EQ affects it but that's part of the game as you will have that problem with any processing.
Synethesising the bass correctly, with phase alignment also allows you to properly EQ the bass (by adjusting the values of each of the harmonics in the wave table). For example, if you are adjusting harmonics levels in EQ ask yourself, why not just do that in the wavetable.. since it's the exact same thing. Saturation is typically there to add phase rotation - most saturators or all-pass filters are just adding phase rotations. Again, this can be done within the wavetable. Now, it's more work to go through and edit the wavetable, I admit. However, it's possible to synethesise bass, make those adjustments in your favourite plugins, then resample the bass back in to a wavetable. Now your wavetable has all the harmonic adjustments you can simply use the synthesis without any plugins and you are no longer adding needless delays to your instrument and effect chain. :) The other benefit of doing this is EQ and saturation is not keytracked. If your bass is a single note it's fine, but any variations introduce the same problems. However, with a modified wavetable those adjustments - where you now have adjusted harmonics will automagically key track
@@Psiger when you where splitting the fundamental. You can copie the whole of A with modulation then go into the editor and remove all the higher harmonics. Just a bit quicker
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it doesn't shift only the fundamental phase but all individial harmonics related to their own wavelength, as the cycle lenght of each harmonic is smaller and smaller you don't notice it as much as the fundamental
Hmm, actually it should be half-length for each octave. I think I haven't seen those ones really affected by the plugin, where do you see it/ have the info? Could be it was more a guess what they do on observation.
@@Psiger on voxengo pha page description. Or you can try this: generate a 50 Hz unfiltered saw. apply a 90 degrees shift with pha, then compare vs shifting only the fundamental on a scope
Indeed they write that. I will check that as I'm still not 100 percent bought. But it's absolutely possible that I may be wrong. I still think the technique might be interesting but I'm still experimenting with that.
If all frequencies moved equally according to their wavelength etc., it should be the same as not splitting it and moving the sound (without the filter and amp env). I try that once I'm back from Portugal.
@@Psiger yes sure it still is an interesting way and what matter is the results^^. but no it would be equal to moving the sound only if all frequencies would be shifted of same *absolute* time amount (ie some fraction of the time of the fundamental), whereas here its in expressed in degrees , mean its *relative* to each freq, so ie if fundamental is shifted of t, 1rst harmo will be only shifted of t/2, 2nd of t/3 and so on
Where can I take a class on this? I want to learn about all this for my music production. Where did you learn?
I learned with dozens of hours of trial and error, coaches, masterclasses, etc. but I condensed all that knowledge into an easy and super detailed course. There is a video-only version and one with homework and feedback. Drop me an email: psiger.records @ Gmail com and I can send you more details.
I noticed that you were working on the 'Mid' band of the shaperbox/volume shaper, you have to actually click in the area to the left of the band splitter to activate the 'Low' band. I'm sure you already know this, and missed clicking on it, but thought I'd point it out for anyone following along with the tutorial.
I didn't pay much attention then on the processing, wasn't so focused on it. Thanks for pointing it out 👍.
Also instead of matches peaks, focus on matching zero crossing points. And controlling the amplitude of the sine can just be done with the volume knob.
Im not sure if I understood the first part but yes the amplitude can be controlled with the volume knob that way.
When phase aligning. Try to match the zero crossing points rather than the peaks. Its almost identical but a little cleaner
I try that so far I get it like almost matching and then I do wiggle a bit around until I find a spot that pleases my ears.
@@Psiger also helps if bass is in tune. Usually need minimum +12st. If you use molodyn you can tune your bass easy.
This is such a deep study. Very well man
Thank you mate btw. how is it going are you playing Shankra and Wao again?
@@Psiger WAO yes, Shankra no idea. i sent the application tough. I almost finishes my EP, I’m super excited to let you listen it.
Send it over. Did you follow my Discord invite? I made a group for all alumni, there are many other good guys like Misaya, etc. too in the group.
Good experiment but any fx you place on those tracks will shift it all anyhow, especially when you think of a reverb, delay, saturation, even EQ of done without consideration.
Nothing wrong with starting it all with this in mind..
Good videos as ever.
I know that it does you just need to align it then after you placed the FX. Let's assume you created K&B like this and then it's in phase. You place an EQ in the bass channel then it's out of phase. You can now start aligning it again by moving the phase until it fits with the EQ ;-) and yes it may change how the EQ affects it but that's part of the game as you will have that problem with any processing.
Synethesising the bass correctly, with phase alignment also allows you to properly EQ the bass (by adjusting the values of each of the harmonics in the wave table). For example, if you are adjusting harmonics levels in EQ ask yourself, why not just do that in the wavetable.. since it's the exact same thing. Saturation is typically there to add phase rotation - most saturators or all-pass filters are just adding phase rotations. Again, this can be done within the wavetable.
Now, it's more work to go through and edit the wavetable, I admit. However, it's possible to synethesise bass, make those adjustments in your favourite plugins, then resample the bass back in to a wavetable. Now your wavetable has all the harmonic adjustments you can simply use the synthesis without any plugins and you are no longer adding needless delays to your instrument and effect chain. :)
The other benefit of doing this is EQ and saturation is not keytracked. If your bass is a single note it's fine, but any variations introduce the same problems. However, with a modified wavetable those adjustments - where you now have adjusted harmonics will automagically key track
Just copie from A with modulation
In which part?
@@Psiger when you where splitting the fundamental. You can copie the whole of A with modulation then go into the editor and remove all the higher harmonics. Just a bit quicker
Do you mean I could have copied all the knob settings at once?
@@Psiger yes