Homemade DIY Electronic Lathe conversion with ball screws - amazing transformation.
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- There are many ELS (Electronic Lead Screw) and Lathe CNC projects on the net. This video shows my take on it, which uses ballscrews. It is a lathe ball screw conversion which I guess is between ELS and CNC. I just call it an electronic lathe.
I did not start out to build this but the project just grew. Some time back I converted the cross slide ACME screw to ball screw. That is described in this video
• Lathe cross feed conve...
I was so pleased with the smoothness and precision that I decided to replace the main Z axis leadscrew also. The ball screws do not have half nuts so it meant that it would have to be motorised and that meant that I would need motor drivers and some form of control. I thought that if I was doing that to the Z axis I might as well do it to the X axis also.
Then I would have all the hardware needed for a CNC conversion except for a CNC controller which are available quite cheaply. I did not want a full CNC. I wanted to retain full manual control but with some common lathe tasks automated.
An Arduino was my first thought for being the controller brains but the base models could not produce a high enough pulse rate for the rapid movements or the coordinated movements of turning tapers or ball ends. I chose to use an ESP32 micro, which is like an Arduino on steroids.
Here is a list of the lathe's automatic functions;
Multipass turning, boring and facing in either direction.
Multipass RH or LH threading, external/internal, in either direction and taper threading.
Tapers, big to small and small to big
Curve machining, concave or convex.
Enjoy the video and please like and share. Do not forget to subscribe to the channel and click the bell shaped icon to ensure that you get notified when the other videos in the series get published.
#CNC, #ballscrew, #ELS, #ElectronicLeadScrew, #Lathe, #Leadscrew, #crossslide, #backlash, #bearings
I have some people who are keen to copy my lathe control and as a result I have designed a PCB for the controller which will make it very easy for anybody to make it. I will be ordering PCBs very soon so if anyone is keen to have a go then contact me by email (motochassis@gmail.com). Along with the PCB I will make the code available and provide some instructions. However, this is not a money making operation for me and so do not expect too much in the way of support. This is a system that I made for myself but I am happy to share details with anyone on a " this is what it is, take it or leave it" basis.
I have a manual lathe and a knee mill that some unknown person did a cnc conversion to so I have a vague idea of what you went through to accomplish this. You, sir, are an absolute madman.
Thank you for your compliment I have been practising to reach this degree of insanity for a long time and it is nice to be recognised for it.
Nice to see you in the flesh Mr Foale ! Thank you for guiding me through my racing motorcycle days !And now beyond ! Thank you Harry
Now then....this is just what I want for my old Chester Craftsman lathe! Looking forward to seeing the full build series.
Keep the videos coming, you are doing an excellent job!
See my new comment at the top.
Again. I love your conversion. All the extra work to put the stepper motor under the cross slide definitely paid off. It looks super awesome and you don't have a huge stepper motor hanging out the end.
If you look at my recent videos you will see that I needed to ditch the belt drive and make it direct. In order to avoid the motor sticking out the front I put it at the back. Have a look at this playlist ruclips.net/p/PLyn2snGjYlHwvzi0ztHJVwwFANxyTc2Kj
Hello Tony,
That looks great... I will be tuning in for further videos on your electronic Lathe...
Take care.
Paul,,
Magic conversion! good job!
Absolutely brilliant!!!! Thanks for sharing.
Great idea. Looking forward to future videos.
Excellent idea and neat implementation! Thank you for sharing.
Nice conversion. Looking forward to your future videos.
More to come!
Nice job mate... I converted my 12x37 to ballscrews/servos/"electronic lead screws"... wasn't 100% happy with it though. I like your handwheels.
Nice work Tony, and thanks for taking the time to create the videos to share.
Great to see a conversion that retains the manual control but automates the typical tasks that are either time consuming or impossible to do without additional tooling.
Looking forward to seeing more!
Glad it was helpful!
Gran bel lavoro. Il tuo ELS è sicuramente meglio di quello che ho realizzato io. Complimenti
I am overall very impressed with this series, I can see it is over my head. I am just looking to add a power cross-feed to my hobby lathe. Don't know if I can sort it out or not. I must say your video was very informative, although I will likely not use most of what I have seen here today. Thanks for the video.
'Old piano adventure; the saloon sound' a video by
Rick22228. Good choice in music, thanks for the video
Great project
Thats pretty cool!.
Chuffed at that youth.. Looks great.
Very nice and impressive!
Glad you like it!
I really like the the CNC control of a manual lathe. I recently purchased a well used Clausing 5914 lathe and it needs a new lead screw which costs more than I paid for the lathe. Since I am refurbishing the lathe anyway, It will be easy to convert to a ball screw and cost a fraction of the price of a new lead screw. I was planning on Clough42's ELS conversion but since the lathe has power feed on both axis, I prefer to do your conversion scheme. I'm looking forward to more information on the controller and software. Thanks for the inspiration.
See my comment at the top.
good job
Loved it
Tony, i finaly got through all of these cpnversion videos and am more than impressed !
I will be in contact to see about ordering some of your kit for one of my lathes. It will likely the S.B. 14-1/2" as my little Logan 10" is too small and light and i will NOT cobble on my Monarch 10EE.
Almost makes me want to sell the S.B. and get a Grizzly lathe. 🤔
Brilliant! 😎
Looking forward to this. I'm looking for a dual CNC/Manual setup for a mini lathe at some point. Parts list would be welcomed.
I have not made a parts list as such but I think that what is needed for each stage will become obvious as I do each focused video. Basically I just ordered what I wanted as I needed it. Although I do not want a CNC it would be very quick to change over. It would just be a matter of plugging a CNC controller into the motor drivers instead of my ESP32 controller. I have bought a very cheap (26 euros) CNC Mach3 controller just to try, only because it was so cheap.
@@MotoChassisByTonyFoale Thank you. This will be looked forward to. I was looking at what Wade'o Design did a few years ago, but your design looks more interesting.
This is great stuff!
Ótima conversão, ficou muito bom.
gostei muito obrigado meu amigo.. God Bless You
Bravo
this video changed my life! You opened a door. I am subscribing. Are you in England US?
Spain now.
Very clever man.
no he is a genius not a clever man.
Many comments are focussed on screw cutting. This conversion certainly makes that easier but was not the main focus for me. I seldom need to screw cut. As for the ball screws, of course they are not a necessity but after a considerable period of use I can tell anyone that I have no wish to return to conventional screws. One can theorise until the cows come home about which is best but that all amounts to zilch up against practical experience. The lathe is just so much nicer to use and repeatability is definitely improved.
How would you even cut thread with that? The ball screws are now not connected to the drive of the head stock, so wouldn't they be out of sync?
@@morningstarsci Well firstly, the video shows it cutting a thread. The screws are not connected MECHANICALLY to the spindle but they are connected ELECTRONICALLY and in the software just in the same way that all CNC lathes are. The spindle and both X and Z axis all have position sensors and so the software knows exactly where they all are. That is why is it easy to cut a thread on a taper or even on a curve.
@@MotoChassisByTonyFoale thanks for the reply! Wasn't saying you weren't cutting a thread. I was struggling to figure out how you had synced them up.
@@MotoChassisByTonyFoale I could have chosen my wording better.
@@morningstarsci No problem.
great idea for servo assisted manual lathe. I was planning the same for a mill, same idea with encoders and some force feedback based on the current on the servomotor. With the encoders you don't "feel" if you're going too aggressive and going to break something
You do not feel that when you use the normal feeds either.
@@MotoChassisByTonyFoale Actually I do feel it on the handwheel. Especially if an endmill is dull
@@car9167 I meant when you engage the powered feeds. you are not using the handwheels then so you have no feel just hopes.
@@MotoChassisByTonyFoale I see what you mean. No power feeds on my mill
Will you share the program? Parts list?
Awesome. Please more details on the conversion, both mechanical and programming.
Keep watching. Have you seen the one about the X axis ball screw fitting?
Hello Mr. Foale,
After watching thousands of videos thanks to you I know what I need now
But how can I get more information on the controller and the programming of it
Is there anyway I could get help on that
Thanks 🙏
Sent me an email. I am making a list of people who are interested.
You good!
Hi Tony, I hope you'll share the software at some point, this looks amazing and writing the software would be the real roadblock for a lot of us mechy guys
Yes, I'll publish the software and probably devote one video to explaining how it works. Schematics of the controls will also be shown. That really is very simple.
@@MotoChassisByTonyFoale Any update on sharing some more info about the project?
See my new comment at the top.
Very cool. But I’d like to know more about the details. Like how you sync the x and z drive together. What’s in your control box. Kinds of motors you used. Software and rpm sensor.
Maybe I missed this stuff, but good job.
I have a Southbend Heavy 10L and I am putting a 4.25 hp treadmill motor with variable speed control and the Clough42 electronic lead screw. So I’m curious about all that’s involved making the conversion.
Paul
See later replies.
Just discovered you. Great videos really love the workmanship. Just idle curiosity but have you got a feedback from the spindle for the threading operation or is it just down to the synchronous motor?
I have two spindle sensors. One is a single pulse for indexing and the other gives multiple pulses per revolution.
This is wonderful. I have a 1968 Southbend heavy 10L lathe and I’ve wanted to convert both lead screw and cross slide screw to ball screws. I’ve seen your video on converting the cross slide, but would like to see how you did the lead screw. You have the apron and half nuts to worry about.
Can this be done on a SB 10L?
I have all the parts to build the Clough42 ELS and I’m wondering if this is compatible with your setup.
I guess I’m a bit lost in terms of how to make the conversion and how it fits into my existing plans.
I wanted to replace the motor with a 4.25 hp, 130 VDC treadmill motor with forward/reverse, and electric brake. Then I was going to put in the ELS from Clough42.
But your setup allows both Z and X axis control. You must have changed dials to something fancy and added stepper motors on both feeds.
Do you have other videos on how this all came together?
Good job. I enjoy your videos and your voice.
Paul
Paul,
You can find a playlist on my channel with all the lathe modification videos that you asked about.
Hi Motochassis. Just discovered you now! Great videos really love the workmanship and your electronic engineering capabilities! I'm retired now in Canada and have been machining for about 40 yrs. from manual to full cnc design and production but I miss it. So I bought an old combination 12x36 lathe/mill (with the change gears in a box) and a bunch of modifications to it. I am VERY impressed with your work and I want to research the cost of converting over to a setup like yours but if adding a full cnc controller isn't too much more I might go that way. Could you post the rough cost of your project here or should I try your email?
Great job really! Including the filming!
Thanks again!
LD
I missed your comment until now. I have not counted the cost so I cannot help there. To go from what I have done to full CNC is almost trivial and so is the cost. Depending on how you go about it the cost for the CNC part could be as low as $5. Google for Grbl and GrblHAL. I use Grbl on a laser engraver. There would be cost savings because you would not need the electronics that I use but you would need a PC, A laptop would be perfect, it would not need to be a late model.
Where are the videos for the actual construction? please please. I looked and could not find any.
I would like to do this to my smaller lathe and keep my big lathe manual
Makes sense.
Very nice, I’m looking at doing an electronic feed screw myself but this far exceeds what I intended and has given me some ambitions. Can I ask where you sourced the handwheels for the controls?
Amazon, search for rotary encoders.
Hello Mr. Tony i already i already watch this video of your a couple of times and im really impressed. But i cant find information about your controller.
Is there any change you can share your controller and codes?
Please help us😊😊..
thanks a lot sir tony..
Send me an email motochassis@gmail.com
@@MotoChassisByTonyFoalethank you sir tony. I already sent you a message on your email.
thanks for getting back to me, have you got any circuit diagrames and circuit borads availble so i could go ahead wih it. many thanks alan
Hi! Have you published your software yet? I am currently adding non-CNC steppers to my Warco WM18 mill and I am curious to know how you handled your steppers in software. I am using Teensy 3.6 microcomputers. Thanks for the video!
Handling the steppers is easily, you just send steps and direction to the drivers. So all you need do is work out how many steps to send. Say you have a 5 mm pitch screw and a stepper set to 1000 microsteps per screw revolution then 1000 steps moves the slide 5 mm. if you want to move the slide 1 mm then you need to send the controller 1/5 * 1000 = 200 steps. You space the steps out in time to give the velocity that you want.
Braco !
Hi Tony, This is really interesting, I am just recommissioning a Hardinge hlv and this would be a good improvement. The motor drive on it has problems, the variac is broken. Do you have any step by step guidance on what you did to convert. I certainly don't want to cnc this old lathe but would like it to be it's best. P.s I'm building a Ducati supermono so need it to make some engine parts. 👍
Supermono. Are you converting a twin or are you lucky enough to have an original?
See my new comment at the top.
Impressive lathe mod! Subscribed! 👍
Minor question, that "one in ten" taper looks very steep, more like a one in five or one in six. Maybe that's a camera effect?
The 1 in 10 refers to the slope of the cutting so the included angle is 1 in 5 as you say. Well spotted.
Are you using a two phase vfd? How is it working? Do you loose any power to the motor?
Single phase 220 V input, 3 ph out. My VFD is oversize so no problem.
How do you sync the spindle and feed for threading? Do you have an encoder on the spindle? Really clever interface. Brilliant job.
Yes, spindle and feed (threading and turning) are kept in sync. I have a spindle pickup inside the head of the lathe. This will be the subject of a future video in the series. Keep watching.
@@MotoChassisByTonyFoale this is exactly what I want to do to my lathe. I am sure your channel will explode. Thank u for sharing. I will be glued to your content.
@@sblack48 The channel has been slow to explode but maybe that is because there are no explosions and idiotic antics.
@@MotoChassisByTonyFoale there will be a lot of interest in this project. More capable than an els but more user friendly than cnc.
@@MotoChassisByTonyFoaleexactly - sometimes real world knowledge, experience and education get ignored for more shouty (less knowledgeable, Experienced and educated) people to follow on YT.
Most controllers just have 1 input for handwheel encoder. And we havecto switch between axes. Can you use both handwheels at the same time?
Yes I can use both together. I made the controller so I could have as many handwheels as I wanted. I was not constrained by a factory made device.
@@MotoChassisByTonyFoale I am a cartridge wildcatter. I racked my brain to find a way to float a barrel blank in my steady rest, internally bore out a sizing die, lop it off, after threading it, and then thread and chamber a slightly oversized version in the breech end of the remaining barrel blank. This would solve the chicken or egg paradox! A roughing reamer cuts the chamber and then the finish reamer cuts the sizing die. Two $150.00 reamers are needed, about 0.005” different in diameter! Could your lashup hold these different tapers, working down to say, a quarter inch rifle’s barrel bore??
Heretofore, cutting a rifle chamber with a single point boring nib, is super grade gunsmithing.
Got it backward, rougher cuts the die and chamber, then the 0.005” larger finish reamer cuts the +0.005” diameter chamber. The sizing die has to squeeze down the fired case so it slips in easily before shooting it.
What is the tune played at the end?
I think it's Bumble Boogie. A take on Flight of the bumblebee
I do not know now. It is some copyright free boogie-woogie from RUclips or my video editor. It is good isn't it? Search the net for boogie-woogie and you'll find a ton of examples. See this guy's videos, he is amazing, ruclips.net/channel/UClw8Huc_XZcz46GJh5Z0wuA
Sigh....when I heard it said that the leadscrew and crossfeed screw are ballscrews that put the block on any ambitions I have to get my lathe running with ELS.
I can't see why that really has to be........with screwcutting you are only going one way with the cut in both planes, and at the end the tool is withdrawn and with no contact with the work it powers back to the start.........a ball screw is unnecessary here even with the backlash from Acme threaded leadscrews.
The same would apply to the crossfeed, an area on many lathes that doesn't lend itself to having a ballscrew due to the nut diam.
For screwcutting the crossfeed screw only has to move the tool into the work in steps and move it back at the end of the cut.
With a mill you absolutely need ballscrews due to the nature of the cut which must have zero backlash for climb milling etc and pitching in 2 directions.
The mechanical part is relatively easy I think...........I would fit a new vertical slide to the crosslide in place of the back tool post position, but running in a vertical plane like a milling attachment that you can get for milling on the crosslide.
The slide only has to move the tool for the depth of the thread, about 3mm at most for the coarsest of threads, and position the tool up or down for different diams etc.
It means that with a very basic lathe, a vertical slide bolted on the back of the crosslide, can be a bolt on/off device and have a short ballscrew and stepper motor incorporated without impacting on the manual working of the lathe......under electronic control the crosslide would be locked and the screwcutting tool moved by the vertical slide.
The lathe would need the normal encoder on the spindle and a stepper on the leadscrew and new vertical slide.........the hardest part is the control box for the drive......coming to our neighborhood soon I hope.
I have a micro lathe I built many years ago, 60mm centre height and 200mm between centres, without any form of screwcutting...... the leadscrew is 1/4" X 20 tpi....there is no way known that a stepper motor could be fitted to the crosslide, which is only 50mm wide and 60mm long and has a feed screw of 4mm diam, so the secondary vertical slide possibility is the path I would have to take.
I never claimed that ball screws were essential, all I can tell you is that I have no wish to ever work without them.
@@MotoChassisByTonyFoale Yes I know what you mean.....I have them on my Skyfire CNC mill ......only way to go for that use.
I have been in contact with a seller of a ELS kit who told me ball screws aren't essential. I do think they greatly reduce the chance of a stall, and you'll likely get rid of a lot of backlash, even though a lot of the software can compensate for it.
@@someotherdude Well, a ballscrew does eliminate a lot of friction compared to an Acme screw thread which adds more power demand to the motor.....backlash with threading is not a problem.
@@gangleweed I agree with both your points, but threading is not all we do, backlash is often a big problem with cnc, and yes a ball screw lets the stepper motor give its all to cutting instead of stalling.
And the ballscrew??
Try this playlist it has the ball screw conversion included.
ruclips.net/p/PLyn2snGjYlHw_e4LomNphh8KleeqPiqpz
do you have actual work?
The lathe is used almost daily on real work.
How is this not an cnc? :)
@@GeeEmJay CNC, Computer Numerical Control. Has nothing to do witth gcode per say. you replaced manual mechanial control with Computer Numerical Control. No? I have done the same exact thing to my late,and when i describe it i say its a cnc lathe.... But whatever.
@@GeeEmJay It also replaces the X feed.
@@matslundberg1289 I think you may be arguing over terminology here. Yes, technically this is numerically controlled, by a computer, so the CNC label would apply. But that's kind of missing the point. Manual machines can be great for making one-off bespoke parts that just need to work. Throw it in the 3-jaw, take off a few thou, test fit, repeat. That is normally pretty annoying to do on a normal CNC lathe. This system is CNC, but its on-the-fly programmable. Your programming is done directly at the machine, with the machine's (now electronic) handwheels and a few buttons. Its a semi-automatic CNC lathe. Saves a lot of time in front of a computer screen for jobs that just don't need it. Also means you get the best of a manual lathe, but with way less tedious multiple passes, or needing to swap change gears.
My wife would say great but you not doing anything useful in your workshop. Great video would be my comment!
I have been thinking of a suitable reply to your wife but I can't.🙂😀
Tell your wife that the workshop keeps you out of her hair, she will be very supportive then :)
my reply you are not doing anything useful in the House@@MotoChassisByTonyFoale
After using a Fanuc OT cnc controller on a Colchester lathe for close to 20 years, I can't imagine putting this much effort into something that works so much less proficiently. Not to say that this isn't clever. But the technology of the Fanuc has been around for a quarter of a century already and it's like you guys are just trying to reinvent something from 40 years ago.
As far as cutting threads on that thing, they look more like fast feed cuts if you ask me. With enough f_ing around you may eventually get a good looking thread.
Why are old man machinists always so cranky?
As I made clear, I simply do not want a full CNC machine. This suits my work so much better.
tried to contact you on your email but says its wrong can you check it for me thanks alan
motochassis@gmail.com