Layout designer here! Thanks for the support. We're still catching a few typos, and some of the internal hyperlinks are off, so expect updated PDFs at some point.
Everything looks great except for the typewriter font for the second adventure of the Adventure Anthology 1. Unfortunately, that font really clashes with the theme.
Rando from the internet here! I just wanted to say having seen the PDFs, you all did fantastic work. Layout work is tough, and I'm really impressed by the work you guys put in. thanks for putting something rad into the world!
I ended up backing it. Went in on the box. I’ve heard Cairn mentioned here and there, but your deep dive piqued my interest and I went down the rabbit hole since this video. I’m now obsessed with it. I think I’ve recalibrated my tolerance for crunch to: Shadowdark / ICRPG on the “high” side, and Cairn/IntoTheOdd/ElectricBastionland on the low end. Thanks again for curating my RPG procurement.
😁 The automatic captions, mandatory for me to understand the video, cleverly substitute Cairn with Karen... so right now I'm listening a great review of "Karen the RpG".
Thank you for another really good review. I was going to wait for the physical to arrive but after this video I'm going to print my copy out so I can at least read through, if play with a group is not immediately available. The classes, tables, world creation, all point at a very particular flavour of world. What's really great about it is its flexibility - one can go in any direction from fairy tale to dark and mysterious. Congratulations on a really substantial and helpful channel.
I backed this too, based on the tales of people who have been using Cairn to run games in Dolmenwood. I haven't made time to go through the PDFs yet. I should do that soon.
Very cool. Tnx for looking through that in such detail. I probably should have backed the kickstarter, but you can't back everything.i will get it all later
PS: if you don’t know what pulp fantasy is, it was pre-Tolkien fantasy, it was much weirder and, dare I say, more fantastical, and I’m not saying bad things about Tolkien’s stuff never in my life would I commit such blasphemy, both have their own merits
Just yesterday (8/8), Hexed Press' had a livestream starting off w a discussion on why he prefers hex- to pointcrawls. The primary point was the possibility of getting lost in a hexcrawl, and I found it interesting. Regardless, would love to hear your take on points and hexes!
I would very much like a copy of the warden guide and adventure booklet. And i don’t want to wait for the physical copies, although I am going to buy those, too.
At 10:15, where is that music from? I know that I know it, I just can't remember! Otherwise, a great review of Cairn 2e. I'm happy to hear you again, was worried that something happened.
I just realized something. The name Vald probably means "forest" or "woods". I think it's Yiddish. That and German have a lot of similar words, and the word Wald in German means forest. It just dawned on me. I could look it up, but where's the fun in that?!
I’m really interested in running Cairn. Have you done so? I want to hear the “response to the devils advocate criticisms” I think mostly it’s about the vagueness of some rules / spells, etc
I was flipping through these PDFs today and ran into a weird issue in character creation. I rolled three random PCs, and two of them ended up with 9 or even all 10 inventory slots filled right from the start. I'm wondering how to deal with this in play? Would I need to start by selling some of my gear immediately, or getting a hireling to carry my crossbow for me (while only having enough gold to pay them for 2 days at the start of the adventure)? The Warden's Guide says starting items should take no more than 7 slots, so it seems contradictory to me.
@@yochaigal hi, thanks for the reply! I checked, and unfortunately my Rill Runner got to 9 (basic items, plus I rolled the reed whistle and a map from the background). And the Hexenbane got all the way to 10 (6 starting items, plus 4 from the background rolls - I got Order of Glass Sigils and vow of Poverty). I did pay attention to the petty items. I see you can get into the same kind of trouble with a Kettlewright if you roll up protection as a trade. It adds 4 inventory slots to the starting 5, the special items below ("What never fails to get you out of trouble?") bring it to 10. Same with Prowler who hunted the malicious forest spirit (adds 3 to starting 6, extra tool in the pack brings it to 10). And the Cutpurse with a ladder also gets to 10. I didn't even look at Bonds, that would get some of those characters to 11.
@@dzioooooone more question: are you using the latest playtest PDF? Also, with some results you might start with a donkey or cart (see Kettlewright) that you can transfer items to. It is possible to get 10/10 if you include Bonds, but I'm personally fine with that as PCs can sell extraneous items or share them around.
@@yochaigal I just pre-ordered the game (missed the KS deadline) and I downloaded the Boxed Set August 12 Update files. The Kettlewright has the cart in the art, but it's not listed in their starting gear or on the background tables, and it costs too much to buy one with the starting money. Should they be starting with one by default? Also, the results for other background which got to 10 (or 11 with Bonds) didn't give them any way to get more inventory slots, like a cart. They'd just have to drop or sell some of that extra gear. Which makes sense if it's their second or third weapon, but kinda defeats the purpose of the more flavorful results that define the character better (like a ladder for a Cutpurse or a Spellbook for a Hexenbane). It's also weird to me that you can only carry 4 slots worth of gear without a pack. How would a PC equip a bulky armor, a weapon and a helmet or shield then? That's 5 slots right there, you literally can't put on a helmet if you have a chainmail on and pick up a bulky weapon, or a simple one plus shield.
I would imagine! But I'm not sure - the non-final pdfs might only be for those who ordered during the regular run. Could be totally wrong though! You'd want to reach out to them.
@@RedMageGM yay! Thanks for the vid! Still haven't gotten around to playing the first edition of Cairn, but after watching this, definitely interested in the second!
I state this from ignorance and assumption, so please grant me that… Also as a fan of old-school and rules-lite games (D&D B/X, OD&D especially by way of WB:FMAG, Fighting Fantasy as an rpg, recently mostly by Troika! but moreso via Spellzard!, and also RISUS…blah, blah). PC#1: I have leather armor and a couple of daggers and a lockpick kit….so I’m a cool slick ‘thief’. PC#2: I have plate armor and a sword and axe. I’m totes a badass warrior! Great. But….the game is so equipment dependent….so then this… PC#2: I buy a lockpick kit. Now I’m a badass warrior and just as good at being an awesome thief as PC#1. PC#1: 😕 (I guess I need better armor and weapons, then…) Then!….who cares?!?…. I love rules-lite…even ultra-rules-lite games….. But, sheesh….if just buying equipment puts a character equally in reach of whatever…..then every PC may as well be differentiated by name only. Not even RISUS messes nor causes this! Please tell me I’m wrong because, so far, this is all I’m seeing. And if the rules suggest simply ‘adhering’ or ‘honoring’ niches……then why be supposedly classless in the first place?….
Well, not having the played the game yet, I don't know if I can speak to that. But, I'd say, the focus of the game is much more on roleplaying a character, with equipment and background to help you out, instead of playing a Role, if that makes sense. I always think of the Lord of the Rings. Like Aragon, Legolas, Gimli, and Boromir were all basically just warriors. But their races, backgrounds, and equipment made them very different! :)
I've never personally understood the appeal of Cairn. Considering how much effort and thought other game designers have put into their games it seems almost insulting that Cairn is as popular as it is, considering the whole principle design is to have as few rules as possible. It would be as if a pencil scribble won an art contest against artists who spent years studying and practicing their skills. To me it's like the pet rock of roleplaying games. That said, I respect everyone's different preferences and tastes, so I don't mean to judge the players who find the appeal in Cairn. It's obviously very popular so perhaps I'm the odd one out. I almost backed Cairn 2e just because of how amazing the art and layout looks. Those are some of the best covers I've ever seen on a roleplaying book. Thanks for the overview! I'm glad to see how much they've expanded the game and I'm happy you're enjoying it.
Everyone has their own style, that's definitely true. I think, though, it would be like comparing sketches with watercolors or something. Very different styles, for very different purposes. Games can definitely be overdesigned, as well as underdesigned.
@@RedMageGM I fully agree about games being overdesigned. Regardless of how I feel about Cairn, I've heard good things about Yochai Gal and I'm happy for his success
I assure you, a lot of effort and thought went into Cairn - about 2 years of it, starting during the pandemic. And just as much went into 2e, and this time with more people involved! Just because there aren't a lot of rules, doesn't mean it was easy! Of course, standing on the shoulders of giants helps. The inverse relationship is also not true - a game the size of (for example) 5e doesn't mean more work went into it than (again, an example) something like Mothership or Troika. Of course, we each have our preferences, and that's wonderful, don't you think?
What a weird take to imply that thought and effort wasn’t put into this game or that it’s a “pencil scribble” when that is very obviously not the case.
I just finished playing a session of an OSR game with a 500 page rule book. It has rules for everything, but none of that allows me to do anything I couldn't do (and do faster) in Cairn.
Layout designer here! Thanks for the support. We're still catching a few typos, and some of the internal hyperlinks are off, so expect updated PDFs at some point.
Awesome! Congrats on what you guys have so far - it's a great book set!
Everything looks great except for the typewriter font for the second adventure of the Adventure Anthology 1. Unfortunately, that font really clashes with the theme.
Rando from the internet here! I just wanted to say having seen the PDFs, you all did fantastic work. Layout work is tough, and I'm really impressed by the work you guys put in. thanks for putting something rad into the world!
I ended up backing it.
Went in on the box.
I’ve heard Cairn mentioned here and there, but your deep dive piqued my interest and I went down the rabbit hole since this video.
I’m now obsessed with it.
I think I’ve recalibrated my tolerance for crunch to:
Shadowdark / ICRPG on the “high” side, and Cairn/IntoTheOdd/ElectricBastionland on the low end.
Thanks again for curating my RPG procurement.
haha I'm glad to hear it, man!!
that is exactly where I am too! I'm so glad to have found these less complex games. They're so much easier to run and so much more fun!
😁 The automatic captions, mandatory for me to understand the video, cleverly substitute Cairn with Karen... so right now I'm listening a great review of "Karen the RpG".
Perfect!
You start the adventure with the Spellbook of "Speak To The Manager".
So glad to see you back! Yes, I would love a pointcrawl vs hexcrawl comparison!
Awesome! Thanks for the feedback!
Thank you for another really good review. I was going to wait for the physical to arrive but after this video I'm going to print my copy out so I can at least read through, if play with a group is not immediately available. The classes, tables, world creation, all point at a very particular flavour of world. What's really great about it is its flexibility - one can go in any direction from fairy tale to dark and mysterious.
Congratulations on a really substantial and helpful channel.
Glad I could help!
Great Cairn 2e coverage! I've ran a few 1e one-shot games and loved it. Running a 2e campaign is going to be awesome!
Awesome! I can't wait to give it a try myself!
Just found the channel! Loved to hear your thoughts and would love the point crawl vs hex crawl!
Glad to have you back
Thanks mate!
I backed this too, based on the tales of people who have been using Cairn to run games in Dolmenwood. I haven't made time to go through the PDFs yet. I should do that soon.
Very cool. Tnx for looking through that in such detail. I probably should have backed the kickstarter, but you can't back everything.i will get it all later
The "classless, but now with classes" thing really doesn't please me, but looks an awesome work.
Yeah, it's not for everyone. But I think it's still an amazing set of books!
I love the color scheme, it’s just so wierd, it gives those vibes of pulp fantasy
PS: if you don’t know what pulp fantasy is, it was pre-Tolkien fantasy, it was much weirder and, dare I say, more fantastical, and I’m not saying bad things about Tolkien’s stuff never in my life would I commit such blasphemy, both have their own merits
Also supported this kickstarter!
It turned out so great!
Never played a TTRPG just watch lore and campaign videos.....but this look fun
Great video.
4:32 As far as I understand you role one omen per group. (The youngest player rolls)
Correct!
That's cool - it's definitely an element I'm going to start incorporating into my session 0s!
Just yesterday (8/8), Hexed Press' had a livestream starting off w a discussion on why he prefers hex- to pointcrawls. The primary point was the possibility of getting lost in a hexcrawl, and I found it interesting.
Regardless, would love to hear your take on points and hexes!
I'll have to check that out!!
Love Todd!
FWIW the pointcrawl rules in Cairn 2e have getting lost baked into them.
I would very much like a copy of the warden guide and adventure booklet. And i don’t want to wait for the physical copies, although I am going to buy those, too.
Will you ever do a video on your GM Bible?
Oh I found the video you did earlier in the year
At 10:15, where is that music from? I know that I know it, I just can't remember! Otherwise, a great review of Cairn 2e. I'm happy to hear you again, was worried that something happened.
It's one of the overworld map themes from Lords of the Realm 2. :)
@@RedMageGM Ahhhh! Thank you.
I just realized something. The name Vald probably means "forest" or "woods". I think it's Yiddish. That and German have a lot of similar words, and the word Wald in German means forest. It just dawned on me. I could look it up, but where's the fun in that?!
I believe the word you were looking for is cameo.
That's it! Thank you!
@@RedMageGM By the way, I really dig your reviews. It’s impressive how much you cover.
I appreciate that, mate!
I’m really interested in running Cairn.
Have you done so?
I want to hear the “response to the devils advocate criticisms”
I think mostly it’s about the vagueness of some rules / spells, etc
I have not had a chance. It's on my list now though! I think I'll wait until the physical release, but then I'll try a few adventures.
cool!
Not a fan of the cover art (just subjectively), but other than that it is AMAZING.
I was flipping through these PDFs today and ran into a weird issue in character creation. I rolled three random PCs, and two of them ended up with 9 or even all 10 inventory slots filled right from the start. I'm wondering how to deal with this in play? Would I need to start by selling some of my gear immediately, or getting a hireling to carry my crossbow for me (while only having enough gold to pay them for 2 days at the start of the adventure)? The Warden's Guide says starting items should take no more than 7 slots, so it seems contradictory to me.
Make sure that petty items do not get counted! Some bonds also add to the inventory count - but still, they shouldn't put you above 9.
@@yochaigal hi, thanks for the reply! I checked, and unfortunately my Rill Runner got to 9 (basic items, plus I rolled the reed whistle and a map from the background). And the Hexenbane got all the way to 10 (6 starting items, plus 4 from the background rolls - I got Order of Glass Sigils and vow of Poverty). I did pay attention to the petty items.
I see you can get into the same kind of trouble with a Kettlewright if you roll up protection as a trade. It adds 4 inventory slots to the starting 5, the special items below ("What never fails to get you out of trouble?") bring it to 10. Same with Prowler who hunted the malicious forest spirit (adds 3 to starting 6, extra tool in the pack brings it to 10). And the Cutpurse with a ladder also gets to 10.
I didn't even look at Bonds, that would get some of those characters to 11.
@@dzioooooone more question: are you using the latest playtest PDF?
Also, with some results you might start with a donkey or cart (see Kettlewright) that you can transfer items to. It is possible to get 10/10 if you include Bonds, but I'm personally fine with that as PCs can sell extraneous items or share them around.
@@yochaigal I just pre-ordered the game (missed the KS deadline) and I downloaded the Boxed Set August 12 Update files.
The Kettlewright has the cart in the art, but it's not listed in their starting gear or on the background tables, and it costs too much to buy one with the starting money. Should they be starting with one by default? Also, the results for other background which got to 10 (or 11 with Bonds) didn't give them any way to get more inventory slots, like a cart. They'd just have to drop or sell some of that extra gear. Which makes sense if it's their second or third weapon, but kinda defeats the purpose of the more flavorful results that define the character better (like a ladder for a Cutpurse or a Spellbook for a Hexenbane).
It's also weird to me that you can only carry 4 slots worth of gear without a pack. How would a PC equip a bulky armor, a weapon and a helmet or shield then? That's 5 slots right there, you literally can't put on a helmet if you have a chainmail on and pick up a bulky weapon, or a simple one plus shield.
I always like systems that encourage the use of hirelings to carry stuff. More interesting opportunities for panic in the dungeons. ;)
Nice review , preorder available on backer kit , do you know if pdf are available for people who pledge now ?
I would imagine! But I'm not sure - the non-final pdfs might only be for those who ordered during the regular run. Could be totally wrong though! You'd want to reach out to them.
Silhouette portraits = cameos?
Yes!! Cameos - that's what I was thinking of!
@@RedMageGM yay! Thanks for the vid! Still haven't gotten around to playing the first edition of Cairn, but after watching this, definitely interested in the second!
I state this from ignorance and assumption, so please grant me that…
Also as a fan of old-school and rules-lite games (D&D B/X, OD&D especially by way of WB:FMAG, Fighting Fantasy as an rpg, recently mostly by Troika! but moreso via Spellzard!, and also RISUS…blah, blah).
PC#1: I have leather armor and a couple of daggers and a lockpick kit….so I’m a cool slick ‘thief’.
PC#2: I have plate armor and a sword and axe. I’m totes a badass warrior!
Great.
But….the game is so equipment dependent….so then this…
PC#2: I buy a lockpick kit. Now I’m a badass warrior and just as good at being an awesome thief as PC#1.
PC#1: 😕
(I guess I need better armor and weapons, then…)
Then!….who cares?!?….
I love rules-lite…even ultra-rules-lite games…..
But, sheesh….if just buying equipment puts a character equally in reach of whatever…..then every PC may as well be differentiated by name only.
Not even RISUS messes nor causes this!
Please tell me I’m wrong because, so far, this is all I’m seeing.
And if the rules suggest simply ‘adhering’ or ‘honoring’ niches……then why be supposedly classless in the first place?….
Well, not having the played the game yet, I don't know if I can speak to that. But, I'd say, the focus of the game is much more on roleplaying a character, with equipment and background to help you out, instead of playing a Role, if that makes sense. I always think of the Lord of the Rings. Like Aragon, Legolas, Gimli, and Boromir were all basically just warriors. But their races, backgrounds, and equipment made them very different! :)
@@RedMageGMMonths later, im actually coming around, but….but….i kinda sorta still feel RISUS PCs may still be as flavorful and also more capable.
🤷♂️
I've never personally understood the appeal of Cairn. Considering how much effort and thought other game designers have put into their games it seems almost insulting that Cairn is as popular as it is, considering the whole principle design is to have as few rules as possible. It would be as if a pencil scribble won an art contest against artists who spent years studying and practicing their skills. To me it's like the pet rock of roleplaying games.
That said, I respect everyone's different preferences and tastes, so I don't mean to judge the players who find the appeal in Cairn. It's obviously very popular so perhaps I'm the odd one out. I almost backed Cairn 2e just because of how amazing the art and layout looks. Those are some of the best covers I've ever seen on a roleplaying book.
Thanks for the overview! I'm glad to see how much they've expanded the game and I'm happy you're enjoying it.
Everyone has their own style, that's definitely true. I think, though, it would be like comparing sketches with watercolors or something. Very different styles, for very different purposes. Games can definitely be overdesigned, as well as underdesigned.
@@RedMageGM I fully agree about games being overdesigned. Regardless of how I feel about Cairn, I've heard good things about Yochai Gal and I'm happy for his success
I assure you, a lot of effort and thought went into Cairn - about 2 years of it, starting during the pandemic. And just as much went into 2e, and this time with more people involved!
Just because there aren't a lot of rules, doesn't mean it was easy! Of course, standing on the shoulders of giants helps.
The inverse relationship is also not true - a game the size of (for example) 5e doesn't mean more work went into it than (again, an example) something like Mothership or Troika.
Of course, we each have our preferences, and that's wonderful, don't you think?
What a weird take to imply that thought and effort wasn’t put into this game or that it’s a “pencil scribble” when that is very obviously not the case.
I just finished playing a session of an OSR game with a 500 page rule book. It has rules for everything, but none of that allows me to do anything I couldn't do (and do faster) in Cairn.