It seems that’s the plan, the only issue is that Die With a Smile is smashing a lil too hard, the vinyls have been delayed a lil bc Bruno, Gaga, and Interscope want that #1 before holidays take over airwaves
@@108daytona6as a Gaga fan this is true. Sabrina got the younger audience on choke hold. Even Taylor hasn’t achieved this for a decade, I’m talking about multiple/simultaneous hits in one album that have longevity.
I get the insightful reading but my heart is broken in the sense I really did want a traditional Gaga as Harley musical and we got this mess instead 😭😭😭
I stand by my opinion that the first one did not need a sequel. I do like the idea that the director put a finger up to all the Joker fans who saw him as a hero in the first one. Let them suffer.
WB really pushed for it, even after cancelling the Batgirl movie to reboot their DC universe which really needs a clean slate and Superman to be a hit!
I think this movie is a response to the fandom that the first movie unintentionally attracted, which seems to be straight men with a victim complex and incels, which is ironic considering the joker kills three men who were harrassing a woman on the train but whatever, basically the film maker hates what kind of audience it drew and the take away that they chose to get from the film so he set out to spit in their faces, it is indeed brave, and I agree with you, it is boring judging by the fact it's a court drama 😵💫 I am confusion, not even my love for Phoenix, Gaga, DC and musicals could make me watch it
wrong. Todd Philips from the get-go had a plan for this character. no way in hell did he "switch it up" because he didn't like the audience he emboldened after the fact. no self-respecting artist would ever do that. Todd absolutely made this take on the joker to showcase people's sick inability to see each other as human beings. it's not a genius way of subverting expectations, but in this day in age with social media obsessed weirdos and celebrity worship, it's 1000000% necessary.
Honestly this isn’t Harley, like the original movie this feels like the Batman lore is just a cover for the story they actually wanted to tell and the worse part is, they had punchline (I don’t like this character but honestly she would’ve fit for this) or they could’ve went with the Harley that’s still in psych school that sees joker as a project. I think the idea that her name is already Harley instead of Harleen is quite lazy because now she’s just Lee. Also I really wish we had a money shot of Gaga holding a mallet, even if it was the Judges Gavel because we didn’t get any call backs to any of the original Harley costumes, at least none as blatant to the jokers purple suit and Harley has so many you could take from it. Gaga is the highlight of this movie though
I think that Harley was originally supposed to become the Joker by the end. She transformed into the persona by the end and her filming That’s Entertainment at the end would have nailed it. I really really like this movie but it’s completely held back by not going harder on Harley’s villain aspects
I agree with the exploitation reading of the film but I don’t think they built it up correctly. I would think that’s the entire reason why you choose to have Harley instead of punchline or another interest for the joker, and why you have Harvey Dent the man that later becomes Too Faced be the lawyer at trial. There both characters formed by the abuse and exploitation around them. But they never build up Harley or Too faced enough to have that pay off. I thought too faced should’ve had gotten his scared half of his body by the end of the movie shown to us, I would’ve had it happen because of the b*mbing in the court room. I feel like Harley could’ve been the one to b*mb the court room or taken on a more court jester role by the end of the movie. there were to many scenes missing or just not written or thought of at all for it to go anywhere. The musical part of the movie was also under baked. I got left wanting more
Harley should have been the one to free Joker then change her mind and Harvey Dent was so wasted especially considering the actor they chose being great in Industry!
This persuaded me to (most likely) not watch it. I only wanted to see it for Mother Monster, and her part is so small, and the singing isnt even good. Your summary of the end sounds like I would absolutely despise it.
I was gonna see the movie, but from hearing the score and this review I might not. I was just gonna see it for Gaga, but I’d rather just listen to the accompaniment album. I heard Gaga had to “forget how to sing” for this role, and I feel like that’s always a red flag for musicals kind of like 2012’s Les Mis
@@EljohnMacaranas the way you are able to translate the ideas of artists through their viewpoint in an easy yet still profound way has helped me look at music differently. and hearing your take on movies is so compelling. it really shows how art is in the eye of the beholder and theres different perspectives and levels to how people see it. like people hating on the joker for how terrible it is…. and also the other half which sees it as a reflection of the real life business behind the movie productions. its crazy how it all comes together and youve made it so clear and easy to understand. (specifically with the music side of things)
I think popular art is so compelling bc it’s that give and take or creative vision and commercial value! It makes it hard to outright be cruel but also hard to give it real praise, it’s v fun to think about! Thank you for the lovely comments!
The “Joker is me" scene is my favourite part of the film which they should have based more of the movie on. Getting Gaga is play Lee as a bad singer was a waste and the real life musical outbreaks were all the same and needed more theatrical enthusiasm and effort. Lee’s character arch was so annoying and Arthur after the first movie should have stayed the radical figure instead of reverting back to being weak. Not enough Joker being joker in the film was the reason this flopped. Onto the LG7 please 🤞
The best thing we got from this was Best Mistake and the song’s title track… honestly, I should have known something was up when Gaga moved ahead a week and did Harlequin rather than release it this week
Took me a week to watch the movie and I was really excited to see it because I'm a little monster, musical enthusiast and a big DC fan. I didn't love the first movie, especially when every white man I know appropriated the film as some sort of male rage masterpiece for every time that a black character appears in a videogame. I thought the lady Gaga musical twist was genius for that I kinda think that's why Todd Phillips wanted to make it a Broadway musical. I came out of the projection very confused, bored and frustrated. In a way I would have preferred if the movie was centered on Lee's character and her obsession with joker
I was gonna watch this movie but this review low key makes me not want to watch it anymore lol not your fault just saying it just sounds bad and knowing the ending that makes me (sorry for my language) pissed off ,I loved the first one and now I’m gonna pretend this never happens in the story.
A refreshingly empathetic review of the film. We could easily predict the film will be better viewed in a few years, once the hoopla dies down. But what can never be salvaged (except with a new cut) is that it's *boring.* It's an aimless story, unengagingly told. And while the ideas have their merit for boldness, nothing can stop the film just being a slog to sit through
I feel like with a tighter script and either cutting the musical aspects entirely or just leaning harder into them (that balance is so bad), it would have been way better received. However, it's v clear to me that management signed off on the movie thinking it was gonna be a crowd-pleasing jukebox musical about our favorite clown villain duo going spring breakers on Gotham with no Batman to stop them.
I have fibromyalgia, as does Lady Gaga. The music video for her “Die w a Smile” somg w Bruno Mars and I think some of the promo for this movie features her smoking cigarettes…it’s gross in general but extra gross to me as someone who is also in the chronic illness community as is Gaga…
Even the album of this movie debut on the chart at 20 , this the first album of her that didn't debut in the top 10 chart , I expected that to debut at the number 1 especially with all the hype on the social media
Well, the album's a jazz record that was announced pretty last minute and mostly was covers. Though yeah, the muted response to it should have warned WB that the movie was in deep trouble
I feel like Harlequin was Gaga distracting from the movie and trying to build hype for LG7 but her not acting insane like she usually does promoting a movie… v telling she wants this buried
@@EljohnMacaranas the exact express " not acting insane" , that's it even in the movie people expecting her to be wild and savage, like the born this way era , but the movie was warm and kind emotional
gagas immediate next move should be announcing lg7 lead single if she wants to sweep this under the rug and take attention off of it
It seems that’s the plan, the only issue is that Die With a Smile is smashing a lil too hard, the vinyls have been delayed a lil bc Bruno, Gaga, and Interscope want that #1 before holidays take over airwaves
@@EljohnMacaranas if Sabrina can have multiple hits at the same time Gaga can too
@@Mateocabrera2389 I do not think they’re comparable at this stage
@@108daytona6as a Gaga fan this is true. Sabrina got the younger audience on choke hold. Even Taylor hasn’t achieved this for a decade, I’m talking about multiple/simultaneous hits in one album that have longevity.
@@spilledbeans7000die with a smile isn’t part of lg7 so it’s a moot point.
I get the insightful reading but my heart is broken in the sense I really did want a traditional Gaga as Harley musical and we got this mess instead 😭😭😭
Same-ish, this could have been an easy layup for everyone involved!
I stand by my opinion that the first one did not need a sequel. I do like the idea that the director put a finger up to all the Joker fans who saw him as a hero in the first one. Let them suffer.
WB really pushed for it, even after cancelling the Batgirl movie to reboot their DC universe which really needs a clean slate and Superman to be a hit!
@@EljohnMacaranas Justice for BATGIRL 😭 I have faith in Superman. If they flop that one then I don't know what they can do to save the franchise.
@@blu_ranger71 Philips made the active choice to make Joker sympathetic and got mad at a portion of the audience that viewed him as sympathetic.
I think this movie is a response to the fandom that the first movie unintentionally attracted, which seems to be straight men with a victim complex and incels, which is ironic considering the joker kills three men who were harrassing a woman on the train but whatever, basically the film maker hates what kind of audience it drew and the take away that they chose to get from the film so he set out to spit in their faces, it is indeed brave, and I agree with you, it is boring judging by the fact it's a court drama 😵💫 I am confusion, not even my love for Phoenix, Gaga, DC and musicals could make me watch it
I think its messaging is interesting but the execution leaves much to be desired, like even people who this was catered for hate it.
wrong. Todd Philips from the get-go had a plan for this character. no way in hell did he "switch it up" because he didn't like the audience he emboldened after the fact. no self-respecting artist would ever do that. Todd absolutely made this take on the joker to showcase people's sick inability to see each other as human beings. it's not a genius way of subverting expectations, but in this day in age with social media obsessed weirdos and celebrity worship, it's 1000000% necessary.
Honestly this isn’t Harley, like the original movie this feels like the Batman lore is just a cover for the story they actually wanted to tell and the worse part is, they had punchline (I don’t like this character but honestly she would’ve fit for this) or they could’ve went with the Harley that’s still in psych school that sees joker as a project. I think the idea that her name is already Harley instead of Harleen is quite lazy because now she’s just Lee. Also I really wish we had a money shot of Gaga holding a mallet, even if it was the Judges Gavel because we didn’t get any call backs to any of the original Harley costumes, at least none as blatant to the jokers purple suit and Harley has so many you could take from it. Gaga is the highlight of this movie though
Yeah, they basically had Gaga play Punchline with Harley’s aesthetic and some singing 😭
Preach, where was the comic inspiration???!
I feel like the costumers and Gaga from time to time got the memo but no one else did sadly
OMG ELJOHN IN HIS MOVIE CRITIC ERA!!! Love to see it!
Will briefly do an Oscar roundup along with the usual Grammy stuff tbh!
Back in your Movie critic era 💚
Lmaooooo just a little throwback!
I think that Harley was originally supposed to become the Joker by the end. She transformed into the persona by the end and her filming That’s Entertainment at the end would have nailed it. I really really like this movie but it’s completely held back by not going harder on Harley’s villain aspects
I think they bailed away from that ending because of accusations of being "woke" or a further hate campaign.
I agree with the exploitation reading of the film but I don’t think they built it up correctly. I would think that’s the entire reason why you choose to have Harley instead of punchline or another interest for the joker, and why you have Harvey Dent the man that later becomes Too Faced be the lawyer at trial. There both characters formed by the abuse and exploitation around them. But they never build up Harley or Too faced enough to have that pay off. I thought too faced should’ve had gotten his scared half of his body by the end of the movie shown to us, I would’ve had it happen because of the b*mbing in the court room. I feel like Harley could’ve been the one to b*mb the court room or taken on a more court jester role by the end of the movie. there were to many scenes missing or just not written or thought of at all for it to go anywhere. The musical part of the movie was also under baked. I got left wanting more
Harley should have been the one to free Joker then change her mind and Harvey Dent was so wasted especially considering the actor they chose being great in Industry!
I haven’t seen the movies yet but I feel bad for Gaga.
she got paid 12mil what do you feel bad about?
She was paid handsomely but agreed her acting career for the moment is a little battered
This persuaded me to (most likely) not watch it. I only wanted to see it for Mother Monster, and her part is so small, and the singing isnt even good. Your summary of the end sounds like I would absolutely despise it.
Yeah… the ending felt very “and then Deadpool walked in”
I was gonna see the movie, but from hearing the score and this review I might not. I was just gonna see it for Gaga, but I’d rather just listen to the accompaniment album. I heard Gaga had to “forget how to sing” for this role, and I feel like that’s always a red flag for musicals kind of like 2012’s Les Mis
Les Mis 2012 has its moments but this is infinitely worse I fear.
i didnt expect to enjoy your movie analysis side but its sk cool and welcoming. i love it!
Haha thanks! I usually keep it to Letterboxd or my friends but it was nice to like put it here again for a second 🫡
@@EljohnMacaranas the way you are able to translate the ideas of artists through their viewpoint in an easy yet still profound way has helped me look at music differently. and hearing your take on movies is so compelling. it really shows how art is in the eye of the beholder and theres different perspectives and levels to how people see it. like people hating on the joker for how terrible it is…. and also the other half which sees it as a reflection of the real life business behind the movie productions. its crazy how it all comes together and youve made it so clear and easy to understand. (specifically with the music side of things)
I think popular art is so compelling bc it’s that give and take or creative vision and commercial value! It makes it hard to outright be cruel but also hard to give it real praise, it’s v fun to think about! Thank you for the lovely comments!
The “Joker is me" scene is my favourite part of the film which they should have based more of the movie on. Getting Gaga is play Lee as a bad singer was a waste and the real life musical outbreaks were all the same and needed more theatrical enthusiasm and effort. Lee’s character arch was so annoying and Arthur after the first movie should have stayed the radical figure instead of reverting back to being weak. Not enough Joker being joker in the film was the reason this flopped. Onto the LG7 please 🤞
The best thing we got from this was Best Mistake and the song’s title track… honestly, I should have known something was up when Gaga moved ahead a week and did Harlequin rather than release it this week
"Joker is Me" was the first moment the film actually had some energy. It was a breath of life, here then gone
What's the point of making movie whose main characters know each other and live in the same world but not making a movie where they meet ???
I blame DC for hating its fans on the low
Also did they read the comics ?? Because this isn't Harley and this isn't the joker. Highly disapointed.
They probably didn’t 😭
Your finally back
My laptop was out to the shop! Broken screen!
Are you going to review terrifier 3 with a different clown. I would love to see your thoughts on art the clown 🤡
Maybe if I do go back to the podcast bc I have my ticket for it 🫡
@@EljohnMacaranas yay 😄
I summarized the movie: everything you see on the joker 1 will get you put to jail and killed.
Oh and Arthur isn’t the Joker and the creatives more or less sorta hate their fans
Took me a week to watch the movie and I was really excited to see it because I'm a little monster, musical enthusiast and a big DC fan. I didn't love the first movie, especially when every white man I know appropriated the film as some sort of male rage masterpiece for every time that a black character appears in a videogame. I thought the lady Gaga musical twist was genius for that I kinda think that's why Todd Phillips wanted to make it a Broadway musical. I came out of the projection very confused, bored and frustrated. In a way I would have preferred if the movie was centered on Lee's character and her obsession with joker
Gaga was too good to be sidelined into what was probably less than 30 mins of screentime
I was gonna watch this movie but this review low key makes me not want to watch it anymore lol not your fault just saying it just sounds bad and knowing the ending that makes me (sorry for my language) pissed off ,I loved the first one and now I’m gonna pretend this never happens in the story.
I think that’s fair! It’s sorta subversive for the sake of it which makes it a bummer
@@EljohnMacaranas Fr Fr I’m like really mad about this movie .
That’s one way to put it
I feel like there was an attempt to be different which is fine if it’s done well and not like this…
Can you do a album review of tyla
I feel bad for Gaga. Good soundtrack. Terrible film.
She did her part as good as she could!
I feel really bad for lady Gaga, the Gaga stans are pointing at Phillips and phoenix
Tbf Phillips really tanked the story, it all starts at the script
Musical? Omg
Barely 💀
A refreshingly empathetic review of the film. We could easily predict the film will be better viewed in a few years, once the hoopla dies down. But what can never be salvaged (except with a new cut) is that it's *boring.* It's an aimless story, unengagingly told. And while the ideas have their merit for boldness, nothing can stop the film just being a slog to sit through
I feel like with a tighter script and either cutting the musical aspects entirely or just leaning harder into them (that balance is so bad), it would have been way better received. However, it's v clear to me that management signed off on the movie thinking it was gonna be a crowd-pleasing jukebox musical about our favorite clown villain duo going spring breakers on Gotham with no Batman to stop them.
If it was really artistic, original songs would have been written. Instead it's just overly expensive pretentious crap.
Lady Gaga's performance is terrific, but I couldn't tolerate Phoenix's singing and thought it was cringey.
Phoenix so badly wanted this version of the story but at least he cast the best possible actress opposite him for that role
Brave....? Really?
Honestly yeah… I can’t name another film that gleefully spent $190m just to frustrate its audience
I have fibromyalgia, as does Lady Gaga. The music video for her “Die w a Smile” somg w Bruno Mars and I think some of the promo for this movie features her smoking cigarettes…it’s gross in general but extra gross to me as someone who is also in the chronic illness community as is Gaga…
Even the album of this movie debut on the chart at 20 , this the first album of her that didn't debut in the top 10 chart , I expected that to debut at the number 1 especially with all the hype on the social media
Well, the album's a jazz record that was announced pretty last minute and mostly was covers. Though yeah, the muted response to it should have warned WB that the movie was in deep trouble
@@EljohnMacaranas yeah everything went so quickly ,we couldn't digest that as supposed to
I feel like Harlequin was Gaga distracting from the movie and trying to build hype for LG7 but her not acting insane like she usually does promoting a movie… v telling she wants this buried
@@EljohnMacaranas the exact express " not acting insane" , that's it even in the movie people expecting her to be wild and savage, like the born this way era , but the movie was warm and kind emotional