Great footage of Wayne. . That happened to me often enough in the high school leagues. I'd never heard of "the messenger". I just called it "the wall shot" - light on the headpin and sending it against the wall to take out what was left (aka "You missed the second arrow, dummy!"). Many times it was the 4-5-7 instead of the 10.
The classic "wall shot" is the hit where the ball hits light in the pocket and the head pin goes to the left wall and comes back to slap out the 4-5 and 7. Specifically, the head pin takes out the 4 and 7, while the 4 then takes out the 5. Dick Weber made a career off the wall shot. There are various combinations of the wall shot in which the head pin does even more damage, in the most extreme case, crumbling the entire left side of the rack, taking out the 2-4-5-7 and 8. A close cousin is the "bucket crumbler," where the 2-4-5-8 are all tipped forward as a result of the head pin sneaking up behind the 4 and 8 and tipping them both forward, as the 4 takes out the 2 and the 8 takes out the 5 from behind. It's spectacular when it happens.
Some say it happened earlier. I can't say for sure. This was the first time I remember seeing it. But I do know this. It was verrrrry rare that it happened.
Not buying it. A guy threw two 300 games on live TV (though not nationally) out of Miami in 1959. I'm not buying that he didn't have a single strike without a messenger, but am not going to spend all the time that would be required to confirm it.
I find that a bit hard to believe when, in my opinion, Wayne Webb wasn't as much of a power player compared to Mark Roth, Steve Cook, and even Johnny Petraglia. However, it's quite rare in general to see 2 messenger strikes in a row ;)
If you can find a tape then you have an argument, otherwise. I know the guy who calls himself "Bowling Oldies". His knowledge of bowling history is extensive.
...and those looked more like today's messenger's rather than those slow 80's jobbies with which we tend to associate that term (while, nowadays, Randy Pedersen tends to call things like THIS "atomic messengers").
This is not the first messenger strike on TV. Search RUclips for Nelson Burton Jr. vs.Sam Baca, Thunderbird Open, 1965. Burton had one in the 2nd frame.
Yes, I'm the one who put that show up on my other channel, BowlingOldies. It's not a messenger in the classic sense of the head pin going to the left wall and coming back and getting the 10 pin. In that case, Burton went through the nose and the 2 pin came across the deck and got the 6 and 10. Different shot than "the messenger" strike.
Oh, OK. I thought any pin that came screaming across the lane to take out a pin on the other side was a messenger. I did not know it had to hit the back wall and come back.
Huh? I get these all the time, even with equipment that would have been considered ancient in 1980. Look how slow those messengers are too. I'm sure in over 25 years of televised bowling up to this point that messenger pins gave strikes to more than a few bowlers.
I'm sure you do now. But in the late '70s and early '80s, they were still quite uncommon. What really made them more common -- more than the modern ball -- was the advent of synthetic lanes, and before that, synthetic pin decks. On the old wood pin decks, pin action was quite dead, generally.
Didn't Pete Couture do this earlier in a double roll-off against Earl Anthony? I thought Pete's was before 1980; I do remember such a "clutch" shot, and I don't remember ever seeing it before then.
@@EngineerCatPyro - For the record, I'm the same guy who does this channel, BowlingOldies. I put this video up. I've watched it frame-by-frame, 30 frames per second. It's the head pin that knocks over the 10 in both instances. There's no doubt about it.
Here's George Pappas' shot in '79. ruclips.net/video/3Eyu-C4OuNI/видео.html It's at the 11:06 mark. Maybe George's was a "courier pin" special delivery on that 10 pin. Better than Webb's shot!
Simply the best years of bowling. Chris and Bo with guys making the ball hook and not automatic hook.
Great footage of Wayne. . That happened to me often enough in the high school leagues. I'd never heard of "the messenger". I just called it "the wall shot" - light on the headpin and sending it against the wall to take out what was left (aka "You missed the second arrow, dummy!"). Many times it was the 4-5-7 instead of the 10.
The classic "wall shot" is the hit where the ball hits light in the pocket and the head pin goes to the left wall and comes back to slap out the 4-5 and 7. Specifically, the head pin takes out the 4 and 7, while the 4 then takes out the 5. Dick Weber made a career off the wall shot. There are various combinations of the wall shot in which the head pin does even more damage, in the most extreme case, crumbling the entire left side of the rack, taking out the 2-4-5-7 and 8. A close cousin is the "bucket crumbler," where the 2-4-5-8 are all tipped forward as a result of the head pin sneaking up behind the 4 and 8 and tipping them both forward, as the 4 takes out the 2 and the 8 takes out the 5 from behind. It's spectacular when it happens.
Good stuff. Thanks, BrownswickBowling. :)
This is still one great find.
that's certainly the first fast one on TV - but Pappas threw one in '79 at the Firestone to put the title away in the 9th frame.
That's fast?
...and the modern power game is born.
How the hell had this never been seen before 1980? That's crazy
Some say it happened earlier. I can't say for sure. This was the first time I remember seeing it. But I do know this. It was verrrrry rare that it happened.
title says it's the first on a PBA telecast, not the first ever
The switchover to 3/4 wood was underway to, no doubt, increased scoring.
Not buying it. A guy threw two 300 games on live TV (though not nationally) out of Miami in 1959. I'm not buying that he didn't have a single strike without a messenger, but am not going to spend all the time that would be required to confirm it.
@@VinylToVideo Ed Lubanski on that one. There is at least one video of the 10th out there. Was watching it last night, actually.
I find that a bit hard to believe when, in my opinion, Wayne Webb wasn't as much of a power player compared to Mark Roth, Steve Cook, and even Johnny Petraglia. However, it's quite rare in general to see 2 messenger strikes in a row ;)
Wolfman12395 yeah but he played the gutter and he uses half of the 5 step run
If you can find a tape then you have an argument, otherwise. I know the guy who calls himself "Bowling Oldies". His knowledge of bowling history is extensive.
They must have switched to 3/4 wood that week, down from 3/8 wood the week before.
You would be wrong. Wayne Webb was very much a power player in his day.
Title should be : "1st PBA TV messenger strike of the '80s"
What would Pappas' '79 Firestone title match ninth frame strike be called then?
The second one?
@@RealCompGenie 1979 happened before 1980
Wow!! You're right!!! And, Chris and Bo actually call it a messenger strike several times.
...and those looked more like today's messenger's rather than those slow 80's jobbies with which we tend to associate that term (while, nowadays, Randy Pedersen tends to call things like THIS "atomic messengers").
Webb holding the ball down like that just makes my arm hurt...
This is not the first messenger strike on TV. Search RUclips for Nelson Burton Jr. vs.Sam Baca, Thunderbird Open, 1965. Burton had one in the 2nd frame.
Yes, I'm the one who put that show up on my other channel, BowlingOldies. It's not a messenger in the classic sense of the head pin going to the left wall and coming back and getting the 10 pin. In that case, Burton went through the nose and the 2 pin came across the deck and got the 6 and 10. Different shot than "the messenger" strike.
Oh, OK. I thought any pin that came screaming across the lane to take out a pin on the other side was a messenger. I did not know it had to hit the back wall and come back.
I would call that a messenger. Also, the shot Dick Weber made famous used a messenger on the 5-pin
Did they name the strike messenger after these years
Huh? I get these all the time, even with equipment that would have been considered ancient in 1980. Look how slow those messengers are too. I'm sure in over 25 years of televised bowling up to this point that messenger pins gave strikes to more than a few bowlers.
I'm sure you do now. But in the late '70s and early '80s, they were still quite uncommon. What really made them more common -- more than the modern ball -- was the advent of synthetic lanes, and before that, synthetic pin decks. On the old wood pin decks, pin action was quite dead, generally.
@@ProdigyBowlersTour Don't know.. I prefer wood lanes actually.
@@VinylToVideo ideal to me is wood approach, wood lanes, synthetic pin deck.
@@rkw221 Wood approach with leather soles is a must for me. I HATE bowling on synthetic approaches.
do you have pba theme song?
Good memories
Pretty sure Mark Roth was whipping head pins across the deck way before 1980
Didn't Pete Couture do this earlier in a double roll-off against Earl Anthony? I thought Pete's was before 1980; I do remember such a "clutch" shot, and I don't remember ever seeing it before then.
The double rolloff was 1981.
This is cool except in both shots the 10 pin was kicked by the 6 pin, not the messenger.
You need to get your eyes examined.
@@ProdigyBowlersTour whatever watch it a few times you'll see it.
@@EngineerCatPyro - For the record, I'm the same guy who does this channel, BowlingOldies. I put this video up. I've watched it frame-by-frame, 30 frames per second. It's the head pin that knocks over the 10 in both instances. There's no doubt about it.
Here's George Pappas' shot in '79. ruclips.net/video/3Eyu-C4OuNI/видео.html It's at the 11:06 mark. Maybe George's was a "courier pin" special delivery on that 10 pin. Better than Webb's shot!
I doubt that it was anything close to the first, including because this isn't that rare.
Not true. First I know of was Pappas in 1979 TOC. Tho there may have been ones before this.
Wayne Webb had that odd style due to and issue with his elbow or shoulder.
Poppycock
I saw it several times before this