@ian gee to be clear, some spoons that look like his would likely taint the coffee flavors- that effect can be achieved in a number of ways, but oxidized titanium is going to be extremely unreactive, and should not influence taste- a cheaper spoon would likely be a different metal alloy.
@@punkdigerati I agree with this on premise but I think anyone you speak to given enough time to think, could name at least a dozen lay examples of things they've bought or used that have one job and are fatally flawed in such a way that interferes with their one job in the exact way you wouldn't want them to. The first example that comes to mind for me is a rotary engine, which is predicated on its ability to seal gases in distinct chambers while rotating, but the highest point of wear and tear and friction, because of it's rotation, is the seals that need to not fail for it to work. I'll work on 11 other examples and get back to you ;)
It's very cool to see how, at the industrial scale, coffee process begins to converge on beer brewing. It's somewhat common for large-ish breweries (and, of course, larger) to have 6-roll or even 8-roll mills to crush grain, for the exact same reason of extraction. The brewer in me would like to point out that the diagram that you showed in the video is somewhat incorrect as to how the mill works. Basically, after each pair of rollers, the grinds go through a metal sifter, where the fine(r) particles are dumped to the bottom and the larger particles proceed to the next set of rollers. This is repeated 3 or 4 times (depending on the number of rollers) with each pair of rollers at a progressively smaller gap (and a smaller grind). This means that you don't get too many "fines" until you get to the last roller pair, which would also govern the actual "output" grind size that you are aiming for.
Interesting, so it's actually the sieves that give it the edge with the tight particle size distribution? Maybe if he sifted the fines out of the Baratza and $50 grinder, he might have got a similar result.
@@goldencalf5144 Not quite. Its more like aiming for an espresso grind by grinding to a french press, then sifting, then regrinding to a drip, sifting, grinding for a moka, sifting, then finally grinding what little is left for an espresso, mixing it all together and using that. This isnt a great parallel, though, because (as James' video on regrinding shows) you would get a much larger percentage of fines due to a set of conical or flat burrs which fairly consistently produce a known percentage of fines with each grind, regardless of the size of what goes in. (I have to imagine this percentage would change based on the size of the input, though). In essense, its is 3 (or 4) mills that are designed to be used in sequence to progressively grind large beans into small grounds but because they are using rollers instead of burrs (even if the rollers may have burrs on them, those roller burrs dont function in quite the same manner as conical or flat burr sets) the amount of fines produces with each pair of rollers is minimized. By minimizing fines at each progressive "regrind", you can design a machine that can "step down" boulders into the distribution that is displayed on the graphs. Also, by changing the rate at which those steps occur (as well as the overall difference between the input size and output size), you can change the graphs, (a la the Cometeer 1 and 2 graph)
@@Musicman9492 This makes a ton more sense than the picture he showed, and also is probably more efficient in terms of getting the most/best correctly sized yield out of your throughput, because you aren't wasting energy on what is already correctly sized and you aren't just saying "good enough" to what isn't.
@@Musicman9492 At this sort of industrial scale couldn't they also give the fines and the target grind different, optimised extraction cycles and blend in the "cup" before freezing?
As someone who just this week finally upgraded to a Baratza Encoré from the Sboly used in this video - the difference is very noticeable. A couple weeks before that I made the switch to fresh roasted single-origin coffee from the varieties you can get at your local grocery store. That has made a huge impact too. Several years ago I would have fallen under the never drink coffee crowd. For one reason or another I kept giving it a shot, but it was never more than the thing I had to drink in the morning. I've been watching James's videos for a couple years now and they have changed coffee from something I feel like I have to drink in the morning to something I want to drink in the morning, something I almost crave. Thank you James for all your wonderful videos and all of the knowledge that you've given. I love that no matter what video topic you're doing there's always something for me to learn, and I always do.
@@filipebet I did not try any of those - for me, the two biggest issues Sboly had was grind consistency - and static. I don't have the equipment for espresso, so I didn't need the extra fine grinds. Sorry I couldn't be more help!
@@seanmcahill My Baratza produces a lot of static. Grinds floating and clinging everywhere. I started using a tooth brush (Brand new and only used for this!) and a glass of water. Dip the tooth brush and use it to sprinkle water over the beans in the hopper. Doesn't take much. Flip the brush and use the handle to stir it around. Bingo! Almost no static! Can't remember the name of the person this technique is named after, but it's really great. Zero effect on the machine or grinds, that I notice.
"they're doing some proprietary stuff in there" - them hiding that they're loading large amounts of specialty coffee into extra copies of the 50$ grinder James brought
Hey James, I run coffee through one of these roller burr grinders at work. As you know, changing the gap in the bottom rolls is roughly equivalent to adjusting the setting on a traditional grinder. This changes the peak of the distribution (AKA d50). There are a few other variables, most of them rely on making the bottom rolls do more work, and therefore cut less efficiently and generator more fines and/or widen the distribution. For example, widening the gap between the middle rolls means that larger particles are getting sent to the bottom roll, so it has more cutting to do. Likewise with increasing the feed speed of coffee into the grinder. The other variable here is the "densifier" which sort of works like a river polishing stones. A number of rods churn the compacted grounds, this essentially rounds out the rough edges and binds fine particles to larger ones. This is especially important for e.g. coffee capsules where an even flow is important; in addition it tends to give a very clean extraction. This might be what you noticed in the cupping.
"A number of rods churn the compacted grounds, this essentially rounds out the rough edges and binds fine particles to larger ones" The industrial mill depiction wasn't revelatory but your comment was. You made me realise uniformity of size meant as spheroid as possible. As opposed to say a granule of equal weight but were spiky or sharp edged. Spiky granules would lead to unequal precipitation. The closer to a spheroid the more even the extraction it is. Even if at a micro level that didn't hold I'm thinking the time factor for extraction would have some bearing on that outcome. The big eye opener you stated was recombination, " ...binds fine particles to larger ones". Is that right? Wow. The fines are reconstituted/bound back into other granules to a sought after size. That's amazing and something I thought one couldn't do. Is that because there is a very small amount of inherent liquor, or remaining moisture, or electrostatic charge as the attractant? Or is it just a physical process? Just speculating on the outcomes there - what does it do to husk? Do the husk fines more readily or less so, recombine? If the later you would end with with more pure coffee and a better taste. (Unless the husk serves some other function?) John if you could write a piece on r/espresso it would be an absolute eye opener. Thanks for your comment. I need to think about that for a while. Good stuff man.
@@southboundaustral Yeah this densifier stuff is the biggest difference, I suppose. Of course adjusting the middle rolls to get other distributions is interesting, but in terms of pure quality, having a more even distribution (with less fine particles that get "over extracted") must be the biggest factor
James, a value in your channel is the integrity that you give it. I appreciate how brief but candid you are regarding your relationship towards brand placement.
would be interesting to see you compare: -the frozen coffee extract they produce in hot water -the coffee (liquid) they produce with their equipmebt before it gets turned into the frozen extract (if possible) -coffee you brew with your preffered method from their coffee grounds
@@jameshoffmann Extraordinarily well worded statement. The question we have is "Did they refuse to let you?"... wait for it... wait for it... ...*crickets*
I've always liked coffee but never had sweetness just the bitter . After watching your stuff I ditched the Nespresso machine and bought a sage grinder to cup dooda . Started to notice a sweetness . I'm now intrigued and slightly embarrassed I never discovered this before . So a huge thanks for showing the way to enjoy proper coffee . Great videos
That's because coffee is not sweet at all. It's just the brain trying to find words to describe different "shades"/kinds of bitterness. This is like people describing "velvet textures" in wine. There's a lot of bias in all of this. Just embrace that fact and enjoy the experience. Don't do it like him and start claiming your taste is more "objective" than others hehe
@GaslitWorld f. Melissa B Oh I have no doubt , but even In my cheep 500 buck machine when I alter the grind settings I notice the difference . This is new to me and I'm very happy that I'm learning and my palette also .
I love watching James' videos. Not only are they extremely educational, they're fun to watch, and very relaxing. James could narrate paint drying and I'd be glued to the screen.
Come on, Patreon… buy this man a laser particle size analyzer! So much more that could be done with it. Effects of burr sizes and types, speeds, RDT, WDT, sieve use, etc.
Love cometeer coffee and the concept was a little weird for me, but after Peter McKinnon video on it I immediately jumped online and went to promotion code and three days later awesome cups of coffee. Really excited to have square mile coffee!
Having a tour of a large scale commercial coffee grinder was amazing. Thank you James. It allowed you to present the scale of diminishing returns to a home brewer perfectly. Relax and get a good flat bur grinder for home because there’s no hope of or point to maxing out everything for home use. It reminds me of the same type of analysis I went through while acquiring equipment to brew good beer at home. For beer brewing at home a roller grinder was really the way to go.
I'm a coffee enthusiast, but I work in environmental sciences and I've been analysing deep-sea sediments a lot, so I was quite pleased to see the same laser diffraction particle sizer that I have used so much being used for coffee! Might want to sneak in some of my ground coffee to the lab..!
I use the same model for sediments in my lab too! Made me happy to see it in this video, and just as happy to see someone sharing my thoughts in the comments. Ours has a wet dispersion unit, so no coffee through ours, but we have a Camsizer that I'm curious to run coffee through now.
@@slimmysan7689 Could always run grounds suspended in water in a Hydro LV unit, as you probably could get enough obscuration for a good measurement, and they probably would stay suspended long enough to make a quick measurement? (The lab I worked in for the last four years does a lot of PSD analysis, as it's a Dairy R&D lab)
3700 i think Is about as expensive as they get and i am curoous too, would be a small difference in taste. What makes the 500k grinder so good Is being able to adjust fines and coarses individually on top of mass production grinding. But to a certain point there simply is a good distribution we all love and it cant be that expensive to get there. An ssp burr is 250 then you just gotta make them spin.
Let me quickly explain my thought behind my comment… The 50 USD Grinder delivered the expected results- we already knew how it would stand up against the 500 USD Grinder. What would’ve been interesting to know is: Can we produce a cup of coffee at home that is of no noticeable difference to a 500k commercial grinder? If we took a top-of-the-line grinder and there would’ve been a difference, we’d know that, pretty much, no matter how expensive you go, you won’t reach the levels of a big commercial grinder. If it would taste the same, we could draw conclusions from that regarding other cheaper grinders, knowing the results of earlier grinder reviews (e.g. Ultimate Grinder Showdown). Now we „only“ know that a jet plane goes faster than a Porsche, and the Porsche goes faster than a bobby car.
Also, makes me wonder.. was this left out on purpose in order to avoid the de-mystification of the 500k grinder, in case the top-of-the-line domestic grinder outperformed it? Seeing how close the Baratza already is, it would've absolutely been possible I think.
What this video did for me is help me feel okay with just picking my next grinder based on a few reviews and my preference for design. I don’t think chasing the minute differences between products in the high end of things is worth it at this point in my tasting ability. But I still might buy a facility instead of a house...
This was very interesting to watch. I am usually pretty tight with money but a couple years ago bought a $300 machine (grinds and brews) which I absolutely love and it has saved me so many trips to a coffee shop. Certainly has paid for itself.
This is probably not possible but I would love to see a deep dive on roller mill grinders, just to see what they can do and what the workflow is like for using them. As someone who's been very curious about them, this scratched the initial itch but there's so much more I want to know.
@@kozhevnikov That was my initial taught - would it be possible to scale it down to a reasonably sized consumer grinder. Maybe just two roller sets, but with some extra controll over each roller spacing, tilt etc.
Since I have been watching you, none of my equipment seems to be adequate, I have become a coffee geek, boring anyone I know (and some people I don't know) with information even I did not know existed. Thank you James keep doing what you do.
Its interesting how the third cup had the highest extraction, yet it was clean and sweet. I suppose there's something to be said about the consistency of the particles of coffee from that fancy-fancy grinder that allows for such a clean profile. Edit: Well yeah, that played out for the rest of the video when they did the particle analysis. The ability of the roller sets to produce exacting particle sizes is pretty clear.
I think it’s super neat to watch one of the most knowledgeable people I’ve seen in relation to coffee seem genuinely intrigued around people more knowledgeable in a niche area of the coffee world. Seeing experts in anything talking to people that may be even more tuned into a specific area is always fun.
I would love to be able to compare grinders using the particle size distributions. Speed, to me, is secondary or even tertiary (after noise). I would also be curious to see if the shape of the curve varies with setting (is a given grinder more uniform at an espresso setting than a setting for V60?). Great video as always James.
That's one heckuva commercial for the new Baratza! I'm pretty happy with my Virtuoso Plus (I mostly use an AeroPress, so it's more than sufficient), but if I decide to upgrade, I will probably target the $500 Baratza rather than the $700 Eureka Mignon Specialita, as it looks like it's probably just as good or close enough to make the $200 savings worth it.
I appreciate the "this is technically an ad" disclosure, but I was already interested in buying just from the words "Flash frozen coffee concentrate. Just such an interesting concept.
James I just tried your Square Mile roasted Dimtu Tero from Ethiopia. I now understand what I’ve been missing from light roasted single origin. The peach shines through. Not sure what bergamot is but I’m sure I’d recognize it from now on. Thank you for building such an amazing community and all that you do!
Having just watched the new James Bond flick, that scene and accompanying British accent certainly made me for a second think this was gonna be a James Bond ‘Villain’s Lair” parody!
Man, I just absolutely love actually seeing the data on the Mastersizer for the grinds. In my previous job in the dairy industry, a key part of my role was determining particle size distributions of dairy products using a Mastersizer 3000. Seeing a piece of kit I'm very familiar with being used in another application is really interesting. Particle sizing is such an interesting field to work in. I'd personally find it very interesting to see what the brew PSD comes out at for each, to see how much of the fines end up in the finished drink.
It would have been cool to see particles analyzed from a Nespresso pod, and a Keurig pod, since the grinders they use probably cost more than the $500k grinder (almost certainly in the case of Nespresso,) even though the coffee that they grind isn't as good, the graphs would have still been.. revealing?
Would this comparison show the elements of no matter how good your technique, or expensive the equipment, you cannot turn poor quality coffee into gold.
They use these exact grinders, though possibly in larger size. They start ~$200k and go up from there, you only get more throughput no extra bells and whistles.
There’s plenty of roller mills on the market for grinding grain into grist for home brewing beer. Some will get down to flour size. Now wondering how they’d work on coffee.
Since I do have a commercial grade multi-step nut flour roller mill I feel challenged here... Now I just need a 25kg bag of coffee (minimum load) and I can test it. :)
Do they allow for differing speeds of each roller? "Achieving a narrow particle size distribution and more spherical particles requires cutting forces (shear) rather than crushing the bean (compression). If the rolls move at the same speed, the particles are crushed as they are drawn into the narrowing gap between the rollers, creating a wide range of particle sizes as the beans shatter."
@@JP_43 We do that every time we switch between peanuts and other nuts, and also every single time we switch from conventional to Organic nuts... It is hell, but we are used to it.
James, there isn't one of your videos that I don't learn something new, and that I don't enjoy something thoroughly unanticipated. Your approach to coffee is as interesting as the most fascinating scientific or artistic disciplines, and humorous as well. Thank you.
I happen to have the Sboly (I'm low on funds and not very picky with my coffee, so it does what it needs to) but i want to ask: have you run the grinder at all before that first test? The burning smell happened on the first couple grinds for me, due to the coating on the burrs, but it went away after 3 or 4 runs. I'm absolutely not a coffee expert, but I thought the coffee tasted less burnt after those initial runs too. I'm sure it wouldn't change the end result much, and it doesn't affect the point you're making with the video, it's just something I noticed. Cheers!
I had the same experience with my Sboly. It's a standard thing with any electrical motor based product and if it doesn't happen then you you know you've paid extra for it.
yo Victor I have the same grinder. Was just about to smash it to bits and figured I would take it apart instead. Turns out you can adjust the inner burr on this so that it grinds finer than the extra fine setting. I'm not sure if it was intented by design but you can wind the whole show down lower so the gap is more suited to espresso grind. the Sboly lives!
I love the level of transparency in your videos even when you try to be objective all the way, I really hate people that pretend to be making a review while making a commercial.
When James did the 50£ grinders video, I expected to also see a comparison with a grinder like a Wilfa Svart, to get to see not only what you're missing comparing to the best thing you're coffee can be, but also to see what you gain when you save a little more money. I still can't deny that this looks fun as hell
I agree with James’ linear analogy. The Svart is way way better than the Krups GVX I used to use but it took a couple of years pallet training to explain how and why it is better.
After watching a BUNCH of your videos, I finally went out and bought my first grinder. I experimented with it a bunch to dial in really good pour over and french press grinds. Being a factory worker, I don't think I'll ever be able to justify the purchase of an espresso maker, so I bought a conical grinder in the $50 range. Even before watching this vid, I discovered that the finer settings are better for pour over and drip coffee. I'm still working on dialing in a good french press recipe with it. Grind setting, coffee / water ratio, and temperature. Being able to monkey around with the different grind levels is a fun little experiment though. Cheers!
Same technology as “Home-brew roller grain mills” but with different cut and shape in the rollers, plus these coffee roller grinders have to be multi stage to make the coffee grind size precise.
I have a 2 stage brewing roller mill and have wondered forever if it would grind decent coffee. I've never bothered to try it out, but maybe I will now
Do they allow for differing speeds of each roller? "Achieving a narrow particle size distribution and more spherical particles requires cutting forces (shear) rather than crushing the bean (compression). If the rolls move at the same speed, the particles are crushed as they are drawn into the narrowing gap between the rollers, creating a wide range of particle sizes as the beans shatter."
Hi James, I just want you to know. I don't like Coffee, but i like watching your videos because of your manner and technical insight. And your integrity always impresses me, as you are always transparent about any biases you may have. Cheers
Cometeer is great stuff. Been subscribed for a year. Supplements my espresso habit. I’ve always been curious what your thoughts were on it since they use great coffee. It’s super unique stuff. And a nice mid point in price between going to a cafe and making your own coffee. Was a welcomed addition at the beginning of the pandemic when everything was shut down.
Consistently impressed by your disclosure of conflicts of interest. So many people are trying their best to skirt around what is and isn’t an ad, and erring always on the side of caution when talking about cool stuff that you may financially benefit from is super cool!!
One thing I would be interested in is using sieves to sort ground coffee to see if you could get a 50 dollar grinder to taste the same as an expensive grinder if you had all the same particle size or if shape (something sieves can't select for) also has an impact.
That's actually a VERY good idea for a video! I'd love to see James attempt that. He could also compare a few different grinders to show if some improve more with sieving than others, since there are other variables introduced in grinding besides just particle size(s).
I tried this with a cheap Bodum grinder, but did it slightly differently. I ground course, sifted out the fines and used a larger sieve to separate particles of my target size, then reground the boulders to my target size. I ended up with like 30% or more fines. The brewed cup was not nearly good enough to justify wasting 30% of my beans.
He's done a review on sieves and the theory doesn't hold up. Sieves don't account for the surface area of a particle. So that would only hold up if every particle was a perfect sphere.
@@jackfranks7160 I haven't seen his video on using the sieve. My first thought on "it doesn't work" would be "did he use a perfectly sized sieve?" Because in this video, they show clearly that there are two distinct peaks in the particle sizes, with a deep valley between them. A sieve size that splits that valley should make a huge difference.
The surface area graph was interesting, showing that a relatively small fraction of the mass of the grounds has about half the surface area. Maybe not something to do routinely, but it would be interesting to see what happens if you pass the ground coffee through a filter that lets you remove the fine tail so that you just have the particles from the coarse surface area peak in one brew and just the fine an another. Is the one from just the coarse better than the combination, or is it better to have that mixture in the final cup? Would the result of brewing the coarse and fine particles separately and mixing the result come out the same as brewing them together?
Glad you are so honest about what it is you review and how to treat the video, I’ll just mentally filter the ad stuff and drink the critical useful liquid. Like the blind test not being blind… I get it, no worries. :) I am surprised the difference is so clear between the Baratza and Cometeer, especially when looking at the particle size graph, on the lower end the baratza is doing as well.
James be like "I met this guy on the subway 20 years ago and he smiled at me, so you should treat all my future interactions with him as an advertisement". Such commitment to full disclosure; love it. Well done, James.
Just got to say how much I respect your honesty and openness about your links with Cometeer. When so many people try to hide their commercial interest in products they feature in their content, it's a really nice change to see some integrity.
I was always under the impression that one would want less/no fines from a grinder, but in this video it showed that the 500k grinder still produced fines. Is this an inevitable and unavoidable consequence of grinding coffee? Or do fines play a positive role in the flavour of a cup? I reeeeaaallly wished this was brought up! Great video though, loved the quantitative data.
Fines are for all practical purposes unavoidable, due to the basic physics of brittle facture, at least at the particle sizes we care about for coffee. In theory if you had some way to plasticize coffee beans (please no, science!) then you could produce completely consistent particles
Too many fines can be unpleasant, but they are essential to the texture of a coffee, even a light roast. Because the fines extract fully, you get compounds that contribute to texture which in large quantity would ruin the flavor of the brew. In addition you may be grinding for espresso, the fines are important to build up pressure in the brewing chamber.
They could, apparently, get rid of most of the fines but the price of their coffee would hardly be competitive. There would be enough pressure without the fines, at least if one adds more ground coffee and one could also use a finer grind (with a shorter extraction time) if it were necessary. Though I would like to hear James's opinion.
Being the owner of a $500 grinder and preferring a v60 at home, I'm very pleased at how that setup can get very good coffee without breaking the bank. The ceiling for coffee may go into the 100-thousands, but this drink has a home for anyone at almost any price point. What a beautiful drink to enjoy!
This is the sort of video I really love, absolutely a good and informative video but also one where you can tell James was just itching to get to have a play around with something really cool.
I'm thinking it would be very interesting to run these cups through HPLC (and probably a mass spec) and see how the extracted compounds differ from grind size and distribution.
I have wondered what the industrial level grinders look like but I could have never imagined such a world of grinders exists. Just wow! Thank you James!
There's a huge market for bean-to-cup/super-auto machines in Scandinavia. It seems that alot of people want the easiest way to a cup of coffee here and i'd love for you to touch on that matter, be it test of machines or something else.
I actually own the Sboly grinder. And have used the heck out of it for over a year. I had modified it to be able to grind espresso by drilling out the faceplate so I can move the slider further. I am so glad to know upgrading will be worth it taste wise.
I want to trust your taste based test. Having the particule size data gives an incresible boost to the credibility of your analysis. There is so much complexity in these grinding processes and you genuinely educate the public about this in a delicate manner. One things that pops up in my mind is : if cheap grinders are bad because of the fines they produce, are there ways to get rid of some of the fines ?
Really cool video, I expected the volume but not the control of grind distribution. Really enjoy your channel it convinced me and my sister to both get an Aeropress and have enjoyed coffee much more, thanks!
So we need an end game grinder for several thousand that’s a small roller mill grinder. A mini version of the commercial grinder. Is there anyone doing that?
Yeah, we need one that can grind as small as 30 grams, or even less. It probably wouldn't have to be several thousand dollars. It could be a cascading set of three roller mills, and probably under $3000 for very high quality.
This only gives me a million more questions. And it still doesn't quench my thirst for which grinder I should be looking at to give me good filter coffee at home, but is also capable of doing espresso, and at a sensible price.
Great video. Thx for the Cometeer tour. I always keep a few packs of Cometeer in the freezer especially bearing the warmer temps. Great for Affogato! Hope it’s just allergies but you don’t sound your normal self as though you caught a cold. Hope you feel better. And welcome to the northeast!
It's amazing how grinders are with coffee like Conductors are with an orchestra, with the goal of accentuating certain sections over others. Grinds distribution help bring about certain highs and lows, and produce an overall tone. Plus, with James in the States, I wonder if there's a chance for him to be on a horse in a video. It has been one of his goals.
Great video James. That laser particle analyser would be so useful for all of your previous grinder showdowns! I use a Wilfa Uniform (I only brew filter). Wondering if I should get that new Baratza or upgrade my burrs instead, or neither. We need more graphs!
I love that baratza upgraded the adjustment tabs! and the added light + much cleaner/shiny upper is so nice. Makes me want to swap my Vario-W for the new one
Love the polish that your videos nowadays have! One small feedback I would like to share however; I find myself missing the sounds your editor has chosen to turn down. The grinder sounds, the slurping from the spoon, the pouring of the kettle. I think coffee is such a visceral experience, and for me at least, these sounds invoke memories and feelings of being involved, being present. I suppose its the same reason we go to a café and expect and accept the hustle and bustle as being intrinsic to the experience. Sound sanitation is great, but since your videos are an auditory experience, we want all of it!
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
"Watch this video like you're watching an ad"
And this is why I watch this channel, He's very professional and transparent
Most professional transparency on a technically not sponsored video with no affiliate link, he's not obligated to but he is anyway.
Yes! James does transparency right!
I just wish we could get an unbiased review of the product from RUclips's foremost coffee expert
I love Internet Comment Etiquette's ads sooooo...
I refuse to buy his single origin coffee flavored condoms
James Hoffman patreon supporters be like, “ I better get that grinding facility in the next give away”
A little reorganization in the kitchen might be needed 🤔
🤣😂
@@beanbaka Like a new house to put the new kitchen in?
But bear in mind that you should only apply to win one of these if you've fallen on hard times and cannot afford to buy one yourself :)
How much patreon support is required to secure the cometeer industrial mill? Asking for a friend 😬
I love that James came to America and brought his special fancy spoon with him. He’s so thoughtful of his audience. Love ya James!
I think that fancy spoon with its metallic coatings taints the taste of the coffee.
@@solidamber It's titanium oxide and it's way more hard and inert than you think
@ian gee to be clear, some spoons that look like his would likely taint the coffee flavors- that effect can be achieved in a number of ways, but oxidized titanium is going to be extremely unreactive, and should not influence taste- a cheaper spoon would likely be a different metal alloy.
@@solidamber it's specifically designed for tasting coffee, be pretty weird if they made it made it so it interferes with it's one job
@@punkdigerati I agree with this on premise but I think anyone you speak to given enough time to think, could name at least a dozen lay examples of things they've bought or used that have one job and are fatally flawed in such a way that interferes with their one job in the exact way you wouldn't want them to. The first example that comes to mind for me is a rotary engine, which is predicated on its ability to seal gases in distinct chambers while rotating, but the highest point of wear and tear and friction, because of it's rotation, is the seals that need to not fail for it to work. I'll work on 11 other examples and get back to you ;)
This is by far the least practical “how to improve your grind” video James has ever done. And I still love it.
Oh, I’ve got a video on this lined up for you…
Is it? I actually could use this information for my own 500k grinder. 🤷😀
Idk, the amount of money it seems home baristas are spending, this sounds more like a mid tier build 😂
It's very cool to see how, at the industrial scale, coffee process begins to converge on beer brewing. It's somewhat common for large-ish breweries (and, of course, larger) to have 6-roll or even 8-roll mills to crush grain, for the exact same reason of extraction. The brewer in me would like to point out that the diagram that you showed in the video is somewhat incorrect as to how the mill works.
Basically, after each pair of rollers, the grinds go through a metal sifter, where the fine(r) particles are dumped to the bottom and the larger particles proceed to the next set of rollers. This is repeated 3 or 4 times (depending on the number of rollers) with each pair of rollers at a progressively smaller gap (and a smaller grind). This means that you don't get too many "fines" until you get to the last roller pair, which would also govern the actual "output" grind size that you are aiming for.
Interesting, so it's actually the sieves that give it the edge with the tight particle size distribution? Maybe if he sifted the fines out of the Baratza and $50 grinder, he might have got a similar result.
@@goldencalf5144 Not quite. Its more like aiming for an espresso grind by grinding to a french press, then sifting, then regrinding to a drip, sifting, grinding for a moka, sifting, then finally grinding what little is left for an espresso, mixing it all together and using that.
This isnt a great parallel, though, because (as James' video on regrinding shows) you would get a much larger percentage of fines due to a set of conical or flat burrs which fairly consistently produce a known percentage of fines with each grind, regardless of the size of what goes in. (I have to imagine this percentage would change based on the size of the input, though).
In essense, its is 3 (or 4) mills that are designed to be used in sequence to progressively grind large beans into small grounds but because they are using rollers instead of burrs (even if the rollers may have burrs on them, those roller burrs dont function in quite the same manner as conical or flat burr sets) the amount of fines produces with each pair of rollers is minimized. By minimizing fines at each progressive "regrind", you can design a machine that can "step down" boulders into the distribution that is displayed on the graphs.
Also, by changing the rate at which those steps occur (as well as the overall difference between the input size and output size), you can change the graphs, (a la the Cometeer 1 and 2 graph)
@@Musicman9492 This makes a ton more sense than the picture he showed, and also is probably more efficient in terms of getting the most/best correctly sized yield out of your throughput, because you aren't wasting energy on what is already correctly sized and you aren't just saying "good enough" to what isn't.
@@greysonsnyder6133 Totally. Much of the "good enough" is minimalized in the design process before the machine is finalized.
@@Musicman9492 At this sort of industrial scale couldn't they also give the fines and the target grind different, optimised extraction cycles and blend in the "cup" before freezing?
I don't mean to start any conspiracy theories, but what if the proprietary stuff is just a large room with a 100 people grinding on a commandante 🧐🧐
Hahahaha
Did Cometeer already send you the 'Stay right where you are' text?
One that they share? :)
This comment made my day! Thank you!
It'd have to be a thousand people to get the quantity
As someone who just this week finally upgraded to a Baratza Encoré from the Sboly used in this video - the difference is very noticeable. A couple weeks before that I made the switch to fresh roasted single-origin coffee from the varieties you can get at your local grocery store. That has made a huge impact too. Several years ago I would have fallen under the never drink coffee crowd. For one reason or another I kept giving it a shot, but it was never more than the thing I had to drink in the morning. I've been watching James's videos for a couple years now and they have changed coffee from something I feel like I have to drink in the morning to something I want to drink in the morning, something I almost crave. Thank you James for all your wonderful videos and all of the knowledge that you've given. I love that no matter what video topic you're doing there's always something for me to learn, and I always do.
I've also got a Sboly, any chance you've ever tried the adaptations that some people have done to make it grind finer? And did it help?
@@filipebet I did not try any of those - for me, the two biggest issues Sboly had was grind consistency - and static. I don't have the equipment for espresso, so I didn't need the extra fine grinds. Sorry I couldn't be more help!
@@seanmcahill My Baratza produces a lot of static. Grinds floating and clinging everywhere. I started using a tooth brush (Brand new and only used for this!) and a glass of water. Dip the tooth brush and use it to sprinkle water over the beans in the hopper. Doesn't take much. Flip the brush and use the handle to stir it around. Bingo! Almost no static! Can't remember the name of the person this technique is named after, but it's really great. Zero effect on the machine or grinds, that I notice.
"they're doing some proprietary stuff in there" - them hiding that they're loading large amounts of specialty coffee into extra copies of the 50$ grinder James brought
hahaha - too good!
Theranos style
No, they are hiding all the empty Nescafe packages stored for disposal.
They might even have 50 clones of James grinding on a Comandante 24 hours non-stop.
My bet is on oompa-loompa powered hand grinders.
Hey James, I run coffee through one of these roller burr grinders at work. As you know, changing the gap in the bottom rolls is roughly equivalent to adjusting the setting on a traditional grinder. This changes the peak of the distribution (AKA d50). There are a few other variables, most of them rely on making the bottom rolls do more work, and therefore cut less efficiently and generator more fines and/or widen the distribution. For example, widening the gap between the middle rolls means that larger particles are getting sent to the bottom roll, so it has more cutting to do. Likewise with increasing the feed speed of coffee into the grinder.
The other variable here is the "densifier" which sort of works like a river polishing stones. A number of rods churn the compacted grounds, this essentially rounds out the rough edges and binds fine particles to larger ones. This is especially important for e.g. coffee capsules where an even flow is important; in addition it tends to give a very clean extraction. This might be what you noticed in the cupping.
"A number of rods churn the compacted grounds, this essentially rounds out the rough edges and binds fine particles to larger ones" The industrial mill depiction wasn't revelatory but your comment was. You made me realise uniformity of size meant as spheroid as possible. As opposed to say a granule of equal weight but were spiky or sharp edged. Spiky granules would lead to unequal precipitation. The closer to a spheroid the more even the extraction it is. Even if at a micro level that didn't hold I'm thinking the time factor for extraction would have some bearing on that outcome.
The big eye opener you stated was recombination, " ...binds fine particles to larger ones". Is that right? Wow. The fines are reconstituted/bound back into other granules to a sought after size. That's amazing and something I thought one couldn't do. Is that because there is a very small amount of inherent liquor, or remaining moisture, or electrostatic charge as the attractant? Or is it just a physical process? Just speculating on the outcomes there - what does it do to husk? Do the husk fines more readily or less so, recombine? If the later you would end with with more pure coffee and a better taste. (Unless the husk serves some other function?)
John if you could write a piece on r/espresso it would be an absolute eye opener. Thanks for your comment. I need to think about that for a while. Good stuff man.
@@southboundaustral Yeah this densifier stuff is the biggest difference, I suppose. Of course adjusting the middle rolls to get other distributions is interesting, but in terms of pure quality, having a more even distribution (with less fine particles that get "over extracted") must be the biggest factor
James, a value in your channel is the integrity that you give it. I appreciate how brief but candid you are regarding your relationship towards brand placement.
would be interesting to see you compare:
-the frozen coffee extract they produce in hot water
-the coffee (liquid) they produce with their equipmebt before it gets turned into the frozen extract (if possible)
-coffee you brew with your preffered method from their coffee grounds
I regret not doing the pre-frozen brew with a frozen one, that would be really interesting
@@jameshoffmann they might be brave to let you do that!
@@jameshoffmann Extraordinarily well worded statement. The question we have is "Did they refuse to let you?"... wait for it... wait for it... ...*crickets*
Are you referring to what eventually becomes instant coffee?
I've always liked coffee but never had sweetness just the bitter . After watching your stuff I ditched the Nespresso machine and bought a sage grinder to cup dooda . Started to notice a sweetness . I'm now intrigued and slightly embarrassed I never discovered this before .
So a huge thanks for showing the way to enjoy proper coffee .
Great videos
Nothing to be embarrassed about. Welcome to the journey!
That's because coffee is not sweet at all. It's just the brain trying to find words to describe different "shades"/kinds of bitterness. This is like people describing "velvet textures" in wine.
There's a lot of bias in all of this. Just embrace that fact and enjoy the experience. Don't do it like him and start claiming your taste is more "objective" than others hehe
@GaslitWorld f. Melissa B Oh I have no doubt , but even In my cheep 500 buck machine when I alter the grind settings I notice the difference . This is new to me and I'm very happy that I'm learning and my palette also .
@@WalterGirao I did taste a sweetness , I was dubious at first but I did notice a change . Thanks for the input
@@giannecarlob3937 Thank you
I love watching James' videos. Not only are they extremely educational, they're fun to watch, and very relaxing. James could narrate paint drying and I'd be glued to the screen.
I watch a German ASMR artist called Alexa Breit. James Hoffman doesn't have quite the same effect on me but it's close.
Come on, Patreon… buy this man a laser particle size analyzer! So much more that could be done with it. Effects of burr sizes and types, speeds, RDT, WDT, sieve use, etc.
On the latter (studying those things, not buying James one. Sorry james)
As a Patreon supporter, I like where this is going!
A Beckman Coulter laser particle analyser will be more than USD 250k
Can we just help him lease one????
Love cometeer coffee and the concept was a little weird for me, but after Peter McKinnon video on it I immediately jumped online and went to promotion code and three days later awesome cups of coffee. Really excited to have square mile coffee!
Having a tour of a large scale commercial coffee grinder was amazing. Thank you James. It allowed you to present the scale of diminishing returns to a home brewer perfectly. Relax and get a good flat bur grinder for home because there’s no hope of or point to maxing out everything for home use. It reminds me of the same type of analysis I went through while acquiring equipment to brew good beer at home. For beer brewing at home a roller grinder was really the way to go.
Baratza's new ad campaign: 'We're doing okay.'
I'm a coffee enthusiast, but I work in environmental sciences and I've been analysing deep-sea sediments a lot, so I was quite pleased to see the same laser diffraction particle sizer that I have used so much being used for coffee! Might want to sneak in some of my ground coffee to the lab..!
I use the same model for sediments in my lab too! Made me happy to see it in this video, and just as happy to see someone sharing my thoughts in the comments. Ours has a wet dispersion unit, so no coffee through ours, but we have a Camsizer that I'm curious to run coffee through now.
Let us know your findings
@@slimmysan7689 Could always run grounds suspended in water in a Hydro LV unit, as you probably could get enough obscuration for a good measurement, and they probably would stay suspended long enough to make a quick measurement?
(The lab I worked in for the last four years does a lot of PSD analysis, as it's a Dairy R&D lab)
I would've loved to see a grinder from the high end of domestic grinders (around 5k maybe) to be included in the test. Other than that, nice video!
Such as? Titus nautilus? Even the kafatek isn't that expensive
@@tobiasbouma4071 eg Weber EG-1. Yeah, 1500 below 5k but still a lot closer to 5k than to 500
3700 i think Is about as expensive as they get and i am curoous too, would be a small difference in taste. What makes the 500k grinder so good Is being able to adjust fines and coarses individually on top of mass production grinding. But to a certain point there simply is a good distribution we all love and it cant be that expensive to get there. An ssp burr is 250 then you just gotta make them spin.
Let me quickly explain my thought behind my comment… The 50 USD Grinder delivered the expected results- we already knew how it would stand up against the 500 USD Grinder. What would’ve been interesting to know is: Can we produce a cup of coffee at home that is of no noticeable difference to a 500k commercial grinder? If we took a top-of-the-line grinder and there would’ve been a difference, we’d know that, pretty much, no matter how expensive you go, you won’t reach the levels of a big commercial grinder. If it would taste the same, we could draw conclusions from that regarding other cheaper grinders, knowing the results of earlier grinder reviews (e.g. Ultimate Grinder Showdown). Now we „only“ know that a jet plane goes faster than a Porsche, and the Porsche goes faster than a bobby car.
Also, makes me wonder.. was this left out on purpose in order to avoid the de-mystification of the 500k grinder, in case the top-of-the-line domestic grinder outperformed it? Seeing how close the Baratza already is, it would've absolutely been possible I think.
I appreciate the transparency from the get go. Commendable.
What this video did for me is help me feel okay with just picking my next grinder based on a few reviews and my preference for design. I don’t think chasing the minute differences between products in the high end of things is worth it at this point in my tasting ability. But I still might buy a facility instead of a house...
This was very interesting to watch. I am usually pretty tight with money but a couple years ago bought a $300 machine (grinds and brews) which I absolutely love and it has saved me so many trips to a coffee shop. Certainly has paid for itself.
This is probably not possible but I would love to see a deep dive on roller mill grinders, just to see what they can do and what the workflow is like for using them. As someone who's been very curious about them, this scratched the initial itch but there's so much more I want to know.
I want to know more too!
Wonder why they are not feasible for a home grinder, like a multi-step or recirculating pasta maker.
@@kozhevnikov That was my initial taught - would it be possible to scale it down to a reasonably sized consumer grinder. Maybe just two roller sets, but with some extra controll over each roller spacing, tilt etc.
interesting systems for sure,
Hmm, I assume three sets are needed to get it course enough, so maybe two sets wouldn't work
Since I have been watching you, none of my equipment seems to be adequate, I have become a coffee geek, boring anyone I know (and some people I don't know) with information even I did not know existed. Thank you James keep doing what you do.
Its interesting how the third cup had the highest extraction, yet it was clean and sweet. I suppose there's something to be said about the consistency of the particles of coffee from that fancy-fancy grinder that allows for such a clean profile. Edit: Well yeah, that played out for the rest of the video when they did the particle analysis. The ability of the roller sets to produce exacting particle sizes is pretty clear.
I think it’s super neat to watch one of the most knowledgeable people I’ve seen in relation to coffee seem genuinely intrigued around people more knowledgeable in a niche area of the coffee world. Seeing experts in anything talking to people that may be even more tuned into a specific area is always fun.
I would love to be able to compare grinders using the particle size distributions. Speed, to me, is secondary or even tertiary (after noise). I would also be curious to see if the shape of the curve varies with setting (is a given grinder more uniform at an espresso setting than a setting for V60?). Great video as always James.
But I mean, if you’re having 5,000 people over then the speed could matter.
Just a bit expensive - But I think that's a Mastersizer 3000 with a Aero S Feeder from Malvern Instruments if that helps ;)
These guys set off to conduct very extensive tests of different coffee grinders - worth following!
ruclips.net/video/zEI6z1-ZE-Y/видео.html
That's one heckuva commercial for the new Baratza! I'm pretty happy with my Virtuoso Plus (I mostly use an AeroPress, so it's more than sufficient), but if I decide to upgrade, I will probably target the $500 Baratza rather than the $700 Eureka Mignon Specialita, as it looks like it's probably just as good or close enough to make the $200 savings worth it.
I really appreciate how you disclose your business interests in a transparent way. I wish more people followed suit
I appreciate the "this is technically an ad" disclosure, but I was already interested in buying just from the words "Flash frozen coffee concentrate. Just such an interesting concept.
James I just tried your Square Mile roasted Dimtu Tero from Ethiopia. I now understand what I’ve been missing from light roasted single origin. The peach shines through. Not sure what bergamot is but I’m sure I’d recognize it from now on. Thank you for building such an amazing community and all that you do!
James: "let me explain what's going on".
Me: you're flexing your new end game grinder?
James: "we're in a factory".
Me: oh ok.
Having just watched the new James Bond flick, that scene and accompanying British accent certainly made me for a second think this was gonna be a James Bond ‘Villain’s Lair” parody!
Man, I just absolutely love actually seeing the data on the Mastersizer for the grinds. In my previous job in the dairy industry, a key part of my role was determining particle size distributions of dairy products using a Mastersizer 3000. Seeing a piece of kit I'm very familiar with being used in another application is really interesting.
Particle sizing is such an interesting field to work in. I'd personally find it very interesting to see what the brew PSD comes out at for each, to see how much of the fines end up in the finished drink.
It would have been cool to see particles analyzed from a Nespresso pod, and a Keurig pod, since the grinders they use probably cost more than the $500k grinder (almost certainly in the case of Nespresso,) even though the coffee that they grind isn't as good, the graphs would have still been.. revealing?
That would've been a great idea
I'm pretty sure they sort for particle size since the contents of the pod always appear to be perfectly uniform.
Would this comparison show the elements of no matter how good your technique, or expensive the equipment, you cannot turn poor quality coffee into gold.
I think for the pods they grind, brew, fteeze then grind again.
They use these exact grinders, though possibly in larger size. They start ~$200k and go up from there, you only get more throughput no extra bells and whistles.
You know what's super gosh darn refreshing? A creator who understands the ethics of an ad based revenue model.
There’s plenty of roller mills on the market for grinding grain into grist for home brewing beer. Some will get down to flour size. Now wondering how they’d work on coffee.
I suspect they would not handle beans well in 1 pass, hence the commercial machines needing several stages to get there
Since I do have a commercial grade multi-step nut flour roller mill I feel challenged here... Now I just need a 25kg bag of coffee (minimum load) and I can test it. :)
@@carlrehnberg4581 I shudder to think of the cleaning process to be able to mill flour in it again after running coffee.
Do they allow for differing speeds of each roller?
"Achieving a narrow particle size distribution and more spherical particles requires cutting forces (shear) rather than crushing the bean (compression). If the rolls move at the same speed, the particles are crushed as they are drawn into the narrowing gap between the rollers, creating a wide range of particle sizes as the beans shatter."
@@JP_43 We do that every time we switch between peanuts and other nuts, and also every single time we switch from conventional to Organic nuts... It is hell, but we are used to it.
James, there isn't one of your videos that I don't learn something new, and that I don't enjoy something thoroughly unanticipated. Your approach to coffee is as interesting as the most fascinating scientific or artistic disciplines, and humorous as well. Thank you.
I happen to have the Sboly (I'm low on funds and not very picky with my coffee, so it does what it needs to) but i want to ask: have you run the grinder at all before that first test? The burning smell happened on the first couple grinds for me, due to the coating on the burrs, but it went away after 3 or 4 runs. I'm absolutely not a coffee expert, but I thought the coffee tasted less burnt after those initial runs too. I'm sure it wouldn't change the end result much, and it doesn't affect the point you're making with the video, it's just something I noticed. Cheers!
It had ground maybe 6 or 7 30g batches before filming. The smell lingered but good to know it goes away!
I thought the motor might have cooled, because James didn't mention it during the speed test. But manufacturing residue is a very valid point.
I had the same experience with my Sboly. It's a standard thing with any electrical motor based product and if it doesn't happen then you you know you've paid extra for it.
yo Victor I have the same grinder. Was just about to smash it to bits and figured I would take it apart instead. Turns out you can adjust the inner burr on this so that it grinds finer than the extra fine setting. I'm not sure if it was intented by design but you can wind the whole show down lower so the gap is more suited to espresso grind. the Sboly lives!
@@nicholasm2239 is there a video showing the sboly mod you're referencing?
I love the level of transparency in your videos even when you try to be objective all the way, I really hate people that pretend to be making a review while making a commercial.
When James did the 50£ grinders video, I expected to also see a comparison with a grinder like a Wilfa Svart, to get to see not only what you're missing comparing to the best thing you're coffee can be, but also to see what you gain when you save a little more money.
I still can't deny that this looks fun as hell
@ mother looking
I agree with James’ linear analogy. The Svart is way way better than the Krups GVX I used to use but it took a couple of years pallet training to explain how and why it is better.
After watching a BUNCH of your videos, I finally went out and bought my first grinder. I experimented with it a bunch to dial in really good pour over and french press grinds. Being a factory worker, I don't think I'll ever be able to justify the purchase of an espresso maker, so I bought a conical grinder in the $50 range. Even before watching this vid, I discovered that the finer settings are better for pour over and drip coffee. I'm still working on dialing in a good french press recipe with it. Grind setting, coffee / water ratio, and temperature. Being able to monkey around with the different grind levels is a fun little experiment though. Cheers!
Same technology as “Home-brew roller grain mills” but with different cut and shape in the rollers, plus these coffee roller grinders have to be multi stage to make the coffee grind size precise.
I have a 2 stage brewing roller mill and have wondered forever if it would grind decent coffee. I've never bothered to try it out, but maybe I will now
Do they allow for differing speeds of each roller?
"Achieving a narrow particle size distribution and more spherical particles requires cutting forces (shear) rather than crushing the bean (compression). If the rolls move at the same speed, the particles are crushed as they are drawn into the narrowing gap between the rollers, creating a wide range of particle sizes as the beans shatter."
I really appreciate the upfront honesty! Great vid as always.
Finally I can get an answer to the question: “Should I buy that $500,000 coffee grinder?”
Hi James, I just want you to know. I don't like Coffee, but i like watching your videos because of your manner and technical insight. And your integrity always impresses me, as you are always transparent about any biases you may have. Cheers
Cometeer is great stuff. Been subscribed for a year. Supplements my espresso habit. I’ve always been curious what your thoughts were on it since they use great coffee. It’s super unique stuff. And a nice mid point in price between going to a cafe and making your own coffee. Was a welcomed addition at the beginning of the pandemic when everything was shut down.
Consistently impressed by your disclosure of conflicts of interest. So many people are trying their best to skirt around what is and isn’t an ad, and erring always on the side of caution when talking about cool stuff that you may financially benefit from is super cool!!
One thing I would be interested in is using sieves to sort ground coffee to see if you could get a 50 dollar grinder to taste the same as an expensive grinder if you had all the same particle size or if shape (something sieves can't select for) also has an impact.
That's actually a VERY good idea for a video! I'd love to see James attempt that. He could also compare a few different grinders to show if some improve more with sieving than others, since there are other variables introduced in grinding besides just particle size(s).
I tried this with a cheap Bodum grinder, but did it slightly differently. I ground course, sifted out the fines and used a larger sieve to separate particles of my target size, then reground the boulders to my target size. I ended up with like 30% or more fines. The brewed cup was not nearly good enough to justify wasting 30% of my beans.
He's done a review on sieves and the theory doesn't hold up. Sieves don't account for the surface area of a particle. So that would only hold up if every particle was a perfect sphere.
@@jackfranks7160 I haven't seen his video on using the sieve. My first thought on "it doesn't work" would be "did he use a perfectly sized sieve?" Because in this video, they show clearly that there are two distinct peaks in the particle sizes, with a deep valley between them. A sieve size that splits that valley should make a huge difference.
Really appreciate James commitment to transparency.
The surface area graph was interesting, showing that a relatively small fraction of the mass of the grounds has about half the surface area.
Maybe not something to do routinely, but it would be interesting to see what happens if you pass the ground coffee through a filter that lets you remove the fine tail so that you just have the particles from the coarse surface area peak in one brew and just the fine an another. Is the one from just the coarse better than the combination, or is it better to have that mixture in the final cup?
Would the result of brewing the coarse and fine particles separately and mixing the result come out the same as brewing them together?
This is my new favourite channel. I’ve been binge watching so many videos all day 🤣 thanks for being so down to earth James! :)
I wonder how coffee would taste if you could mechanically remove the fines, like some kind of sifting machine.
Good Q!
Happy Birthday James, many years to come...
Glad you are so honest about what it is you review and how to treat the video, I’ll just mentally filter the ad stuff and drink the critical useful liquid. Like the blind test not being blind… I get it, no worries. :) I am surprised the difference is so clear between the Baratza and Cometeer, especially when looking at the particle size graph, on the lower end the baratza is doing as well.
One of your best videos so far. Especially the graphs and distribution laid out so nicely 🤌
3:40 - James accidentally spoke with his real voice. 😂
James be like "I met this guy on the subway 20 years ago and he smiled at me, so you should treat all my future interactions with him as an advertisement". Such commitment to full disclosure; love it. Well done, James.
Just got to say how much I respect your honesty and openness about your links with Cometeer. When so many people try to hide their commercial interest in products they feature in their content, it's a really nice change to see some integrity.
I was always under the impression that one would want less/no fines from a grinder, but in this video it showed that the 500k grinder still produced fines. Is this an inevitable and unavoidable consequence of grinding coffee? Or do fines play a positive role in the flavour of a cup? I reeeeaaallly wished this was brought up! Great video though, loved the quantitative data.
Fines are for all practical purposes unavoidable, due to the basic physics of brittle facture, at least at the particle sizes we care about for coffee. In theory if you had some way to plasticize coffee beans (please no, science!) then you could produce completely consistent particles
Too many fines can be unpleasant, but they are essential to the texture of a coffee, even a light roast. Because the fines extract fully, you get compounds that contribute to texture which in large quantity would ruin the flavor of the brew. In addition you may be grinding for espresso, the fines are important to build up pressure in the brewing chamber.
They could, apparently, get rid of most of the fines but the price of their coffee would hardly be competitive. There would be enough pressure without the fines, at least if one adds more ground coffee and one could also use a finer grind (with a shorter extraction time) if it were necessary.
Though I would like to hear James's opinion.
@@SamStinson I like this idea form industrial point of view but I hate it as a coffee lover. :-D
@@SamStinson Surely you could just sieve them out after grinding?
I'm so happy for you that you had this opportunity! Thank you for sharing this to us all😊
It would be so fun to see how other grinders perform, like the Comandante hand grinder, or the Niche... Or maybe the 3.000£ from the ultimate series
Being the owner of a $500 grinder and preferring a v60 at home, I'm very pleased at how that setup can get very good coffee without breaking the bank.
The ceiling for coffee may go into the 100-thousands, but this drink has a home for anyone at almost any price point. What a beautiful drink to enjoy!
This is the sort of video I really love, absolutely a good and informative video but also one where you can tell James was just itching to get to have a play around with something really cool.
This taught me little about coffee, and much about James. :)
I was waiting for the "one of my subscribers can win this 500,000 dollar grinder"
Glad you were able to come to Mass! Gloucester is a lovely town.
I'm thinking it would be very interesting to run these cups through HPLC (and probably a mass spec) and see how the extracted compounds differ from grind size and distribution.
I have wondered what the industrial level grinders look like but I could have never imagined such a world of grinders exists. Just wow! Thank you James!
TMW you re-watch this video and realize the $50 grinder he's using in this head to head is the very one you currently daily drive lol
Besides all the things I learn from your videos, you NEVER fail to crack me up! Thank you for both of them, James! Cheers!
This humble man represents me in everything
There's a huge market for bean-to-cup/super-auto machines in Scandinavia. It seems that alot of people want the easiest way to a cup of coffee here and i'd love for you to touch on that matter, be it test of machines or something else.
I just use 2 rocks to grind my coffee
Classy I just chew mine
😄😄
Wow that's expensive. That's 2 years salary for Charlie Brown.
Look at you mr la di da with TWO whole rocks
Mongo only pawn in game of coffee
I actually own the Sboly grinder.
And have used the heck out of it for over a year.
I had modified it to be able to grind espresso by drilling out the faceplate so I can move the slider further.
I am so glad to know upgrading will be worth it taste wise.
I thought I wouldnt see the day James Hoffman with a hairnet on.
I want to trust your taste based test.
Having the particule size data gives an incresible boost to the credibility of your analysis.
There is so much complexity in these grinding processes and you genuinely educate the public about this in a delicate manner.
One things that pops up in my mind is : if cheap grinders are bad because of the fines they produce, are there ways to get rid of some of the fines ?
You can either buy a sieve to remove the fines, or you can try James kitchen paper hack.
Why does he sound COMPLETELY different lmao
Really cool video, I expected the volume but not the control of grind distribution. Really enjoy your channel it convinced me and my sister to both get an Aeropress and have enjoyed coffee much more, thanks!
I think one of the greatest reasons for not having a $500.000 coffee grinder is where would I put it?
Cant thank you enough James! My cup went from zero to Hoffman because of your videos.
$50, $500, $500k. That escalated quickly
So funny to get an ad for a supermarket-level coffee machine on this of all videos.
RUclips algorithm... you have much to learn :D
500k grinder…. Think it’s about time to sign up for Patreon.
This is the most enjoyable episode of anything I have ever seen!
Are you using a different microphone on this? You sound very different.
I love this! Was just skimming all your coffee grinder videos while shopping for one!
So we need an end game grinder for several thousand that’s a small roller mill grinder. A mini version of the commercial grinder. Is there anyone doing that?
Yeah, we need one that can grind as small as 30 grams, or even less. It probably wouldn't have to be several thousand dollars. It could be a cascading set of three roller mills, and probably under $3000 for very high quality.
Shoutout to Cometeer they're so good
Was hoping you were going to give all three away to your Patreons. Disappointed.
I'm thoroughly enjoying learning more about coffee. The science behind the art of good coffee.
"Sorry guys I can't show you the £500,000 coffee grinder you clicked on the video to see."
I really appreciate your clarity on advertising. Very respectful. Ta.
This only gives me a million more questions. And it still doesn't quench my thirst for which grinder I should be looking at to give me good filter coffee at home, but is also capable of doing espresso, and at a sensible price.
Great video. Thx for the Cometeer tour. I always keep a few packs of Cometeer in the freezer especially bearing the warmer temps. Great for Affogato!
Hope it’s just allergies but you don’t sound your normal self as though you caught a cold. Hope you feel better. And welcome to the northeast!
Very happy birthday James with this great video!!
It's amazing how grinders are with coffee like Conductors are with an orchestra, with the goal of accentuating certain sections over others. Grinds distribution help bring about certain highs and lows, and produce an overall tone.
Plus, with James in the States, I wonder if there's a chance for him to be on a horse in a video. It has been one of his goals.
Great video James. That laser particle analyser would be so useful for all of your previous grinder showdowns! I use a Wilfa Uniform (I only brew filter). Wondering if I should get that new Baratza or upgrade my burrs instead, or neither. We need more graphs!
I love that baratza upgraded the adjustment tabs! and the added light + much cleaner/shiny upper is so nice. Makes me want to swap my Vario-W for the new one
Just found him on FB, I don’t even drink coffee but I really like his videos … super informative
Love the polish that your videos nowadays have! One small feedback I would like to share however; I find myself missing the sounds your editor has chosen to turn down. The grinder sounds, the slurping from the spoon, the pouring of the kettle. I think coffee is such a visceral experience, and for me at least, these sounds invoke memories and feelings of being involved, being present. I suppose its the same reason we go to a café and expect and accept the hustle and bustle as being intrinsic to the experience. Sound sanitation is great, but since your videos are an auditory experience, we want all of it!