Thanks for another great discussion. I'm finally getting a chance to catch up on your postings. Happy Sunday! A lot of the points you made were so pertinent to me in my deconstruction journey. Also, I finally got around to reading 1984 a couple of years ago and it struck me how much I (and the Christians I knew) relied on "doublethink" and "doublespeak" to make our theology work. And as you pointed out, we continue to see it in your comment sections all the time. Also also, I look forward to buying and reading "You Can't Have Your Faith and Eat it Too"!
We have absolutely NO way of accessing the desires of the divine through our own powers. None. The only reason Biblical believers think that they know ANYTHING about the divine is because they think the divine purposely reached out to humanity.
You learn? Nope. No you don’t! If you did you would know that God already made a decision about you and all atheist. “The fool in his heart says there’s no God.”
So what you're saying is that he's not nearly as caring as everyone makes him out to be, and instead decides ahead of time on who's going to be an atheist or not......which completely screws with the idea that he's allowed free will to be a thing. Either way, it just sounds to me like he truly is heartless, and just using us as an experimental plaything (or worse, metaphorical cattle to feed on, cause for all we know, he might sustain himself on the souls of others), assuming he even exists to begin with of course.@@unc1589
@@unc1589 I am sure you are gaining brownie points with Jesus for running around the internet posting Christian dogma on RUclips channels that deconstruct this religion. Maybe he will upgrade you from business class to first class on your trip to heaven!
'God moves in mysterious ways' is an example of a 'thought-terminating cliche', an emergency parachute deployed when someone cannot sustain their argument. Other examples include 'Let's agree to disagree' and 'You'll understand one day.'
It's also, in my mind, an immediate concession to something that the Christian (or Muslim or any monotheistic-style believer) really should not be conceding. Saying something like this means you believe one of two things, whether you know it or not: 1) God is a consequentialist, basically a cosmic utilitarian. That means his nature cannot form the basis of goodness, because there is no inherent goodness of nature under consequentialism, only positive and negative outcomes from actions. And if God is a utilitarian, and the thing he wants to maximize is something other than human wellbeing -- which sure seems to be the case -- then we have no good reason to actually do anything God commands. Sure, obeying God's commands might advance God's objectives, but if they don't advance ours, why call God good? OR 2) God bears no duties to human beings whatsoever, and is free to do anything he wants to them for any justification (or none) whatsoever; human beings bear absolutely zero rights in relation to God that would in any way restrict God's actions. The theist might be nodding in agreement, but this is an awful notion to hold. First, it appears to be entirely unjustified: If moral rights and duties exist and arise in the relationships of sentient beings to each other, why doesn't God bear any of them in God's relationships, and how does God propose to issue obligatory commands if there is no such relationship? Second, it flies in the face of everything we understand about good authority: No human being would consent to a government that says "You have no rights at all and I can kill you if I want for no reason at all," and we would say such a government is neglecting its duties to the people for making such an unfair claim to unrestricted power. Likewise, we hold parents and governments accountable for preventable harms that befall children or citizens; why is the being that freely chose to create all life not also accountable to its creations for preventable harms that may befall them? Why is it that a parent who abandons their child or a government that tramples its people is morally blameworthy for failing to live up to obligations they voluntarily took on in exchange for their authority, but God doing the exact same thing is not only not blameworthy, but somehow praiseworthy? Third, it suggests that there might not be any obligation to obey God's commands: If no rights or duties arise in God when God issues a command, it appears that no duties or rights occur to us when we are commanded, since moral rights and duties are reciprocal; if we do as God commands, what rights do we gain against God for our compliance that God cannot violate, and if God does violate them, what is our recourse but to conclude that God is not good because God does not keep moral obligations that they themselves initiated through the issuance of moral commands? And if God does gain rights and we incur duties unilaterally, what argument grounds and justifies that non-reciprocal authority relationship? I've never seen any apologist who is capable of answering that.
@@MindShift-Brandonlove your take on the Bible god and religion. If you should happen to read this I have information I think you would be interested in but it’s unconventional and hard to explain in a text. I dare say no one else has the material that I have. Check it out.
I can't tell you how greatful i am for channels like this. The decision to go back to another church for the second time lead me to my decision to leave organized religion itself for the final time. I live with my parents who are devout christians and they never make it easy to disconnect for the final time. They gaslight me without even knowing what that is and if i ever told them where i was learning this stuff my mother would probably rip the router from the wall and force me back into the church. I've been indoctrinated since i was a child being punished for things i never understood and being told i may have deserved it. The other kids in my church harassing me telling me i wasn't worthy of it. The pastors telling me i was worthless but with god i wasn't worthless but... i was still pretty wortheless. I hope i can break away from all this crap for good one day.
I hope you’ve created separate accounts for your atheism/religion content. In Google apps, you can remove the account from the app’s visibility. Then when you want to use it again, just “Add another account” and fill in the credentials. By removing the account (from default view) you avoid situations where that account might pop into view while you and a family member are looking at your device. Another method for hiding content from shoulder surfers is to _in cognito_ mode on your browser. That way your past searches won’t pop up when your browser is potentially visible to others in the room
At 38 with my own family, I still receive such gaslighting and attempts to make me feel less than human without Jesus (from extended family only). But it's easy to choose to not interact with them anymore. They can't hold me down or trigger those Christian based psychological traps in me anymore. For the majority of your life, you will also have such power to choose who you subject yourself to. If you don't have such freedom yet, just hang in there because there will come a time when you are much more empowered and not dependent on them.
In my 7 decades I've been told ALL that stuff, and much of it from my relatives. They spin, double talk, gaslight etc, but have the AUDACITY to make it seem like YOU are 'the bad person!"
Well you are a bad person. You are a moral law breaker of God's 10 commandments. Guilty as charged. And that is why you desperately need the Savior The Lord Jesus Christ to save and rescue YOU from all your sin. For without His grace and mercy you remain under the condemnation and wrath of God for your unrighteousness. You can be made a new creation in Christ when you are born again by the Spirit of God. And Jesus did it all because of His love "For He (God The Father) made Him (Jesus The Son) who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Corinthians 5:21)
Well, as stated in The Word of God you are definitely not "a good person". Everyone who has come to realize this, is most ready to come to The Lord Jesus Christ and experience the forgiveness and cleansing from all their sin.
@@NOMAD-qp3dd Jesus Christ knows the heart of man. Christ knows mans need for Grace and Mercy because man can never become sinlessly perfect accept by faith in the blood that Christ shed on the cross and the finished work that Christ completed on the cross.
I used to be one of those Christians. Now, every time I hear a Christian say, "God's ways are higher than mine. How dare I question his high and superior ways" and "God works in mysterious ways and I accept God's high and mysterious ways" I want to shake my head and place my palm on my face. It's such a stupid argument. Imagine if you got sick and found a doctor who told you, "Don't question me. My ways are superior to yours, and I work in mysterious ways that you don't understand and shouldn't dare question. You just have to trust me and have faith in me. " Nobody would trust that doctor. Be skeptic, be curious, but don't drink the kool-aid. I hope you get better soon, Brandon.
@MindShiftSkeptic I have a question for you, Brandon. Do you think it's odd that Romans, which was written to the Romans in Rome, was written in Greek instead of Latin? I feel that writing to the Romans in Greek instead of Latin is like writing to a church in France in Spanish instead of French.
They love to say that YOU cannot understsand their god because he's mysterious, as they proceed to tell you how much they understand this god. Why is it not mysterious to them? My guess is that they're delusional.
@@JohnmhatheistBecause he wasn’t writing to the average citizen of Rome, but instead to a tiny diaspora group of Hellenized Jews that were living in Rome.
@@DrumWild He's understandable when it's convenient, but he's also mysterious when it's convenient. Uh oh. I just used logic. I'm going to hell now for questioning God's higher mysterious ways.
Christians: “You can’t possibly understand God. His ways are far beyond our understanding”. Also Christians: “I have a personal relationship with my God and his Holy Spirit guides me always”…… So to recap, when God doesn’t lift a finger to stop war, suffering, genocide, plagues or any other random evil, you’re supposed shrug your shoulders and just say: “Well, what can I say, he works in mysterious ways”. But then that same person turns around and asks you to truly believe them when they say that, that same God stopped what he was doing, to help them find their lost car keys in the morning….
God helping people to find car keys doesn’t bother me in the least. It’s when believers claim to know that “god hates f*gs” and has similarly negative feelings against LGBTQ+, or want people to vote for a particular politician, that I have a problem.
Not only that, but whenever anything good happens or anyone has anything good, or one human does something good for another, we are supposed to thank god. And whenever anything bad happens it is either humans fault (sin) or the devil's fault, or demons corrupting, or just "god works in mysterious ways" or god is putting forth his, well-deserved by us, wrath. It is the ultimate heads I win, tails you lose, so Christians can keep their mental baby blanket.
Incorrect. It is the consequences of sin that has brought about all the evil, wickedness, darkness, suffering, and death in the world. And it is easily understood if you study the Word of God, The Holy Bible.
@@OublietteTight Jesus Christ knows the heart of man. Christ knows mans need for Grace and Mercy because man can never become sinlessly perfect accept by faith in the blood that Christ shed on the cross and the finished work that Christ completed on the cross.
@paulgemme6056 heard that conceptional interpretation in previous sermons. Sounds like a great sales pitch, but the manual for what you are selling does not match the advertising campaign. The bible of the christian god contradicts what you just stated. Brandon has scores of books' examples in video after video, book quote after book quote. Plus, I am not a man. Apparently, the false advertising does not apply to half the population. Or did you mean to reinterpretate your book too by saying it means humans? It does not. Plus a demi-god reincarnating and being just fine after 3 days is not giving up much. In the grand length of the universe, that is barely a blink. He was supposedly immortal and knew it ahead of the cross? So the whole bleeding on the cross was what...? A performance from a deity to give people a good show? In this perfect story, nothing was really given up. Now if he sent Jesus to hell forever for our sinning... that would actually be a sacrifice. Jesus went to paradise... supposedly? If pre-Jesus was only for the Jews, then the storyline is what? Heaven was finally open to Men... and by extension HELL was suddenly a danger? So the arrival of Jesus introduced burning forever? Pre-christ no one burned, until he declared we could be saved? Or was your deity just burning our ancestors without giving them any clue that there were rules? Like a great big child and his all powerful spy glass frying ants for fun? And perfection? If your deity is all powerful, all seeing, totally in charge of everything... and he wanted perfection, why did he make people who can never achieve the goal? That's like manufacturing a vehicle then pouring sugar in the tank. Whoops, golly, it does not work right. I wonder why? Let's add one more... sex. If your deity made a son who was supposedly getting to know humans and their tough lives by being one... and he remained a 30+ year old virgin, then he skipped over a massive part of the human experience. We are hormones and needs and love and tenderness. If this Jesus character was too pure to be fully human, why did he bother to become one of us in the first place? Oh right... so "man" worships only him. Only him. He sounds fragile. He made all the people who worship other deities and thru creating their world and reality he caused them to know of "others"... so as the creator of everything, he created the concepts of other religions. So this bible driven deity created the others we are not supposed to believe in? What? What is this, the Wizard of Oz? "Ignore the man behind the curtain." Too many loop holes, contractions, insults, flaws and murders in your great book. Or are we doing the "interpret/ do not quote " trick? If we are, then why have the book in the first place. Let's all just make up whatever we really want to be true? I am ready to listen to answers. I am ready to be proven wrong. Just please try not to use the standard blood loving, he gave up so much comments. I am a follower of channels like this one because I am seeking deeper levels of understanding. Short versions of standard rhetoric has not made me believe for 50+ years. p.s. I have no negative emotions right now... just 10,000 questions that need debating.
@@OublietteTight God/Jesus Christ has nothing to sell but he has a free gift to give to those who have faith, those who believe are blessed. The free gift of God is eternal life - to know him (Spirit to spirit). Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Imagine if any human was caught doing something wrong and when confronted with it offered an excuse of "No, what I was doing was actually completely moral. You just don't understand my reasons, they are to complicated for you to understand." Can anyone honestly say that they would just accept that?
The followers of narcotic leaders accept it, sadly. That is why cults exist. It is even why Multi Level Marketing organizations are able to continue to make money.
@@FoursWithin _"Following the bible too closely ( the way it's Gods propose it to be done) will get a person sent to jail for serious crimes."_ “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters - yes, even his own life - he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26-27) "And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life." (Matthew 19:29) “…therefore, none of you can become my disciple if you do not give up all your possessions." (Luke 14:33) "Those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them, bring them here and kXXX them in front of me." (Luke 19:27)
I can't count the number of times I've gotten some form of "we can't understand God's plan" when questioning religious people. It's the ultimate cop-out.
Religious people can’t answer because to be religious (informed by the acts of common man) people don’t know God. How do I know this? Read the conversations between Christ an the “religious” leaders.
Listening to MindShift on a Sunday morning is so so so much better than any church, anywhere, at any time, nothing like soothing sound reasoning, goes good with delicious coffee ☕️, thank you Brandon.
When I was young Catholic kid my first seeds of doubt where planted when I was taught that God is to be praised for all good things, but when he allows/causes bad things it's due to his mysterious ways that no lowly human can hope to understand. Even young Dewey saw that this is indistinguishable from a world where good and bad things happen without supernatural intervention.
It was the fairytale like stories that I was told to believe actually happened while also being shunned for watching cartoons with the same themes that did it for me as a kid.
We "can't comprehend Him" and yet we know EXACTLY who is "not a true Christian" and "not following God" because we know EXACTLY what God would say and do in every situation and tell his believers to do. It's VERY specific with no room for ambiguity and if people don't do what we KNOW BEYOND A DOUBT God would tell them to do we KNOW they are "sinning" and have not the slightest doubt or hesitation that we might actually be condemning a messenger of God. 🙄
@@jmparker78 We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. Born with compacity to do wrong/sin. We do not have to teach a child how to lie, cheat, steal, we have to teach them that those things are wrong/sinful. It's called a sinful nature.
I love the way you point out the hypocrisy. Over and over we are supposed to rid ourselves of evil…… except when It’s “God” requiring the evil be done. Then it’s just mysterious
When something good happens in our lives we should fall on our knees and praise the lord, when something terrible happens. well, he has his mysterious ways.
To believe in the Christian god one must choose ignorance of the world over knowledge of the world. It is right there in the Bible. Imagine the poor soul who CHOOSES ignorance.
@tylertucker2608 I am having fun pointing that out on "christian" youtube channels. I never get a response when I post about the ethnic cleansing/genocide by proxy. They just clam up.
@@johntiggleman4686 That God has the power to judge men and nations as recorded in scripture ought to cause us to fear him and to listen up when he speaks! He warns us in the Bible that we face his wrath on account of our sins but that he has made a way for us to escape that judgment in the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus suffered for the sins of all mankind, died, and rose again the third day that we might be forgiven (see 1 Corinthians 15:3-4). All people must trust in Christ as Savior and receive his gift of eternal life through faith in him, or they will perish (see Romans 6:23, John 3:16).
I recently asked somebody what part in Gods plan did people with severe mental health issues play. From childhood until the day they pass, they spend thier entire lives in psychiatric hospitals, and never spend a day free from thier inner torment. Why would God do that to them? Thier answer was the usual platitude, and it let me know that I was talking to an absolute monster. I used to think God was bad, until I met his apologists.
My best friend’s brother has been handicapped from birth because the nurse panicked and pushed him back in when the doctor was late. He never aged mentally past 4 or 5 years old. Hes had many other complications and issues and i remember we met a worship leader who was over at out house and met this brother. He told my best friend that god never intended for him to be this way and it was a sin issue and they needed faith that he would be healed. It is truly disgusting how this religion can show itself.
" I used to think God was bad, until I met his apologists." in defence of the apologists, they have to pay their bills. The g0d does not have to OFF the brains of those poor people, though. Do g0d does it because the g0d loves causing misery. (rest assured, I DO NOT defend apologists. I am just having fun with the g0d here)
I’ve encountered this problem before. Believers claim to know and understand God and his machinations and prescience, yet simultaneously claim that God is mysterious. These claims are in direct conflict with one another to anyone with basic knowledge and reasoning capabilities. It’s amazing to me that they can argue this and not see the glaring contradiction so I believe that they are just being dishonest when they make these claims.
Holy crap, I nearly fell out of my chair when you looked left and right. I cannot count how many times I've wanted to do something like that when reading or hearing some Christian claims. Classic!
My "sinful" nature tells me that the Bible is full of contradictions. It also tells me that it is full of nasty fictional stories, violence, warfare, slavery, ignorance, male dominance , hatred, bloodshed, jealousy and other horrible stuff.
This was such a good video. What I've realized is that each person is at the center of their beliefs. It's their own mind that is convinced, it's their own heart that feels God's presence. And it's their own cognitive dissonance that makes them feel threatened when confronted with new ideas. Somehow though instead of seeing themselves as the main factor, they experience that aspect of themselves as an externalized other. It's crazy what we humans can make believe.
Everyone creates their own reality. Some people never really examine why they believe things. I have often said that the wonderful thing about humans is that we are capable of rational logical thought. The terrible thing about humans is how often we don't use that capability.
@@TonyLambregts Life in Christ is not about religion, it's about being humble enough to admit we ave done wrong/sinned. Only those to proud and self-righteous reject the truth. Everyone has done wrong/sinned. We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. Born with compacity to do wrong/sin. We do not have to teach a child how to lie, cheat, steal, we have to teach them that those things are wrong/sinful. It's called a sinful nature
@@paulgemme6056 I don't have an issue with recognizing that I can be wrong. When I inevitably do harm I seek to make amends with the people I have hurt regardless of initial intention. If you think I should bypass that than I believe you are incorrect in your analysis of the situation.
“Power is not an antidote for hypocrisy.” Exactly. Might makes right is a dangerous belief. I think many if not most beliebers know this, they just think their god is the exception.
The Son of God coming down as a poor Jew to pay for the sins of man and was crucified on a Roman cross is the exact opposite of "might makes right". Wouldn't you agree? According to American Atheist, atheist are the largest group who suppose abortion at 90% in USA and is a good example of "might makes right" as it's those who power deciding the fate of the powerless.
@@smidlee7747 God LOVES abortion and un-aliving children so get off your high horse. And to turn that on its head, to make abortion illegal turns women into the powerless and the men to have power over them. A rapist has more power over my body than me even though I would actually die from trying to have a child. That completely imbalances the power dynamic between men and women and what happens when power is imbalanced? Abuse. It turns women back into property. God is all about might makes right. That's literally his entire schtick. "I'm the best. If you don't love and worship me and kill your own children at my whims then I'll punish you or I'll punish innocent people on your behalf. If you don't believe in Santa Claus then I'll punish you for all eternity." What do Christians say at people who doubt? "Why take the chance?" That's a literal threat. If you don't believe what they believe despite their being ZERO evidence or logic to believe it, then you'll be punished. Might makes right.
@@suicune2001 Atheist LOVES to lie on God. Jesus Christ with absolute power did the exact opposite of 90% of atheist , he rise a little girl from the grave and willingly went to the cross to die for the sins of mankind. I've notice atheist love to believe they are on the same level of existence as God. The Son of God became a man so He can judge man face to face , man to man. If you want to judge God as a man then God have already got atheist covered as Jesus Christ came down to live as a poor servant. He is the one you will face to be judged as the Son of man. As God , the Uncreated He can easily raise anyone from the dead as this is His universe and all life comes from Him.
People who say this don't seem to understand that Judgement isn't always a negative evaluation. If you can't judge something to be bad, you can't judge it to be good either. If we as humans can't know that God's actions are bad, we can't know them to be good either and the religion falls apart.
"If we as humans can't know that God's actions are bad, we can't know them to be good either and the religion falls apart." which is a strawman in reference to any religion like Christianity because it never makes that argument in its source material. Theres actually ZERO teaching that the mystery of God is an answer to moral issues in regard to his actions. ZERO Thats instead actually covered in an an analysis of the definition and nature of morality but oooops Atheists and skeptics never attempt to establish those in debates before debating them( since they would then lose the case)
@@ImtoolVideos First off yes it does, as Brandon noted in the video. Of course it also says the exact opposite. That's the cold fact of a collection of things written by hundreds of people over thousands of years, you will get pretty much every single viewpoint AND IT'S OPPOSITE represented in it's writings. And second if you really believe that, why are you here telling us this? Why aren't you telling it to the multitude of Christians that make that exact argument every single time in response to those who judge the God of the Bible as depicted to be immoral?
So let me get this straight, I'm supposed to love and know a god who i am literally incapable of understanding? How do I know something I can't know and understand? If i don't understand calculus I can't say I know it right? I can't love someone I am not sure even exists.
I guess the idea is that you should just be grateful and accept whatever God gives you. If misfortune befalls a theist, they might just thank God that they didn’t lose more than they did. And if the majority of their lives are miserable, they may thank God that they even existed in the first place. Might makes right.
His ways are higher always makes me think of the excuse parents give their kids when they don't know how to explain something. Because I said so kind of explanation. Which is to say no explanation at all.
Saying God is good when he is depicted as doing so many horrific things is like saying the desert is wet when you're dying of dehydration in the middle of the Sahara. Even if it were true in some beyond-my-puny-mortal-comprehension way, it's both irrelevant to the current situation and the word loses so much meaning you might as well ditch it and come up with another.
I agree. It muddies the waters. Is suffering for the greater good or is it a punishment? Are prayers ever not answered, or do we have to wait for just the right time? Do we wait for God to deliver justice, or do we take action ourselves? We’re just left with more questions than answers.
Read about the dehumidifier sales people who ARE selling water to folks in the desert !! They are no different than Elizabeth Holms selling quick cheap diagnostics or crypto currency sales folks. Only preachers are selling post death timeshares and false healings, then getting rich with tax free clubhouses plus cash. Thanks for understanding what "religion" actually is, the world will be a better place when people thoughtfully recognize what doing GOOD means.
This reminds me of my mom when she'd do what she told us not to, and punished us for having done it: Do as I say, not as I do. I indeed saw her as a hypocrite and while I came to understand some of what she was talking about once I became a parent (you may not drink alcohol), I could see her behaving a lot like her god. It wasn't difficult to see the gods were fashioned after humans, by humans, because we are all we know.
Truly there are ways to be a conscious aware parent who at least attempts to minimize hypocritical behavior. And by example minimize it in your children . Because chicken follow examples much closer than most parents are willing to admit when it comes to the impact.
@@onedaya_martian1238 Life in Christ is not about religion, it's about being humble enough to admit we ave done wrong/sinned. Only those to proud and self-righteous reject the truth. Everyone has done wrong/sinned. We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. Born with compacity to do wrong/sin. We do not have to teach a child how to lie, cheat, steal, we have to teach them that those things are wrong/sinful. It's called a sinful nature
“Power is not an antidote to hypocrisy.” That is a powerful sentence. I am so happy about your channel’s growth. The way you talk about, and your knowledge of, the subject matter gives me hope. I believe you are helping 10s of 1000s (soon to be 100s of 1000s) of people deconstruct their indoctrination, and learn to love the 70 or so years of being a “mere mortal.” We are all Star dust; no more, no less. I think that’s a beautiful thing.
I love when Christians say that I cannot understand god, and then proceed to tell me how much they understand this god. Their utter lack of self-awareness is highly impressive.
@@MindShift-Brandon We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. Born with compacity to do wrong/sin. We do not have to teach a child how to lie, cheat, steal, we have to teach them that those things are wrong/sinful. It's called a sinful nature.
Really, it's like the Bible was written by a whole bunch of different people, each with their own ideas and agendas.😉Hope you get better soon, Brandon.
Hope you get better soon Brandon! I have mentioned this before but Christians don't seem to understand that these apologetic arguments can be used by other religions the same way they use them. Muslims could respond to Christians who see problems in the Koran by saying, "You can't understand Allah, his ways are higher." or "You are in no position to question the Koran, which is the word of Allah, the god that created you." or "A fool in his heart says that Allah doesn't exist."
The Bible is God's word given to about 40 men over a 1,500-year period which has a central theme of his work in history to provide salvation for mankind through his Son, Jesus Christ. The Old Testament, which foretold of Jesus' sufferings for our sins, was complete and in place among the Jews for hundreds of years before his birth. God pinned the first coming of Christ on the timeline of history before it happened as recorded in Daniel 9:25-26. We live at a time in history where we look back on Jesus' coming, to atone for sin as foretold in Isaiah 53, and we await his soon return (ref. 1 Thessalonians 1:10). God is regathering the scattered children of Israel into the land of their forefathers (see Jeremiah 31:10), a key event which must take place before Jesus' return. We can trust the holy scriptures, God's word, a book without compare in the earth, which tells us of salvation through faith in Christ Jesus (ref. 2 Timothy 3:15).
@@sm8johnthreesixteen We don't actually know who wrote many books of the Bible. We have names attached to them or thoughts of who wrote them. A lot of the books were written during the Babylon captivity and later so not 1,400 years. The OT verses that supposedly talk about Jesus are either not Messianic or talking about someone else. The gospel writers went back and took those verses and constructed the narrative of the gospels to have those points. Isaiah 53 is talking about the suffering servant, which is Israel. If you are waiting for Jesus's return you will be waiting indefinitely. Jesus made false prophecies about the coming of the son of man which makes him a false prophet and therefore not from god. His followers made up his resurrection and divinity. The bible is not too different than other religious books in that it claims to be god's word but has inaccurate claims about history and science.
I've just started deconversion and my family thinks that I am going through a phase. Not sure how to keep my sanity without showing them the BS in the bible. I don't want to take their faith away but once you see the obvious it's hard to pretend. I think if I went to church again I would laugh out loud at the magical thinking. Thanks for your channel Brandon. Hope you feel better soon
It’s annoying to hear family members regurgitate garbage from scriptures, and it’s therapeutic to speak your mind. I don’t go picking fights in person, but if someone says something erroneous, I don’t hold back anymore. Feels great.
Just wait til one of them needs chemotherapy to survive cancer... then ask them to imagine if the scientists chose ignorance over knowledge of the world.
Im the same my wife is catholic and even though shes not that religious she gets mad when i start asking questions. Good thing none of my kids believe in this nonsense either.
I was just having a discussion about this with a Christian friend of mine. I was trying to articulate this and I think I did alright, but this perfect. Thanks for doing what you do!
I remember when I was still a believer, but I was in my doubting and deconstructing phase, and I was asking a friend about some blatant (at least to me) logical contradictions in regards to God's actions compared to his supposed nature. And I basically got given the excuse of "well God's mind and understanding is infinite and ours is just finite so who are we to question him?" And I heard that regurgitated in youth group settings too, even without anyone asking, probably as a pre-emptive hand-waiving away of any doubts someone might have. It is all a really convenient way for them to be able to give God all the credit for good things while giving him none of the responsibility for the bad things.
If god made us too stupid to understand "his ways", then he can't complain when we think he's a dick. Especially when he knew that would happen and did it anyway. If I get mad at a pre-schooler for not understanding non-linear algebra, I'm the idiot here.
I’ll just say, every time that you say, “but I digress,” I’m really happy that you took a moment for the tangent. It’s always a perfect example of how things actually play out.
Anytime I'm confronted with someone saying I need to trust them but can't or won't provide information so I can't verify their trustworthiness, my B.S. meter pegs. Whether that takes the form of "god's ways are higher," "it's a mystery of faith," or just a plain old, "just trust me bro."
God of the Gaps... another good book title! It blows my mind, reading through the comments, how many people once claimed Christianity and now have left. Seems like so many well-meaning folks and like myself, just couldn't wrap their head around or make work certain constructs in Christianity. Being new to this channel, I thought the comment section would be a bunch of haters of religion and it's communities, boy was I wrong! It makes me feel better that I'm not alone in this "mindshift". Thank you to all those who share your stories!
There are of course many antitheiests but i agree with you. Most atheists seem to just be normal people who wanted to belief or did belief at one point but were honest enough with themselves to leave the faith when their eyes were opened. We all have friends and families and dreams and lives just like christians, just without the fairytale part anymore. I too am energized and comforted by everyone who shares. Thanks for being here!
You'll find such haters here. I know because I used to be one. There are certain religious groups that I tolerate more than others. Having been raised Catholic, groups like the Unitarians are leagues more pleasant to be around; sure, a part of me is still irked by their Christian beliefs, but because they seem to focus more on genuinely improving life on Earth rather than whining about getting into Heaven or avoiding Hell, it feels difficult to get mad at them. Don't get me wrong, I still hate what religion does to people, but I learned to not always be militant about it. Now, I am a militant antitheist whenever a militant theist comes about. So yeah, wherever you find one of those religion spammers (online or not), you can reasonably expect to find me there, and you'll know it's me when I apply logic to their "professing" with a generous sprinkling of mockery on it. I wish I knew who said this, but it has served my heart - and my sanity - so well: "If you cannot laugh at your own beliefs, you need better beliefs."
@@DavidRichardson153 Thank you for the honesty. We have a couple of religious trolls that constantly post on these videos, being Justas399 and Christopher Gibson.
George H Smith delved deeply into this dissonance. He called it the anthropomorphic/agnostic dichotomy. But I just see it like this: the more _personal_ characteristics you give your god, the heavier your burden of proof.
Brandon, I’m sure you’re aware of the Shapiro/O’Connor debate that took place last week. Your topic today was a large-scale undertone in Shapiro’s talking points. It was a fantastic debate, and I’m interested in your perspective on it and, in particular, the fact that the “mystery” proposed by Shapiro make it significantly more difficult to hear him speak so definitively about doctrine. Thanks as always… your posting schedule is nearly as impressive as your thoughtfulness.
@@juanarocho973 Life in Christ is not about religion, it's about being humble enough to admit we ave done wrong/sinned. Only those to proud and self-righteous reject the truth. Everyone has done wrong/sinned. We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. Born with compacity to do wrong/sin. We do not have to teach a child how to lie, cheat, steal, we have to teach them that those things are wrong/sinful. It's called a sinful nature
OMfg I HATE this copout. I've recently had a discussion with a former buddy of mine who turned to YEC and he brought this up. I told him 'Bro. If I was in a cult, I'd want you to tell me.' He didn't grasp what I was saying. Oh hey look at that! Your supporters are growing exponentially! Great job Brandon. Quality content as always.
No no no, you don't understand, the DNA is like Shakespeare and if you put 16 red naked monkeys in a room with typewriters for a billion billion years, they'd never type out Romeo and Juliet, it's like 10x56 with a gadzillion zeroes after it. You have to have more faith to believe THAT! _"Bicycles don't just POP into existence."_ ~ WLC
Right... YOU can't understand God's mysterious ways...but I DO. Nevermind that uncountable millions of other believers will disagree with my interpretation of His ways... I'm a REAL Christian. In His love, God will smite you for not believing in me. I am VERY exhausted with the religious and their lying bullshit.
I can count on one hand the number of guys I’ve known in my life who I consider both brilliant and mentors of mine. Thanks to you I now need two hands to count that number.
I never understood why god would punish people for simply not getting him even though we mentally can't but yet he still punishes those who think differently
don't even bother. I mean, the g0d punishing you for something YOU cannot understand. Bad enough. But the g0d also punishes you for an apple eaten by totally NOT you.
I left organized religion 1 year ago. I had so many confusing thoughts in the deconstructing process. I was so confused, I couldn't even put my thoughts into words. You have a very nice articulate and calm way of explaining things. This is so helpful!
Man, this is so solid! What a way to compile and confront the verses… I’m in the early “exiting “ stages and find your stuff way valuable… my mind is shifting…. Kudos!
I once was in a bad situation and I prayed and shed tears and my tears dropped on my bible and with full faith i believe in the verse in Isaiah that says "I ll be with you though you cross fire or waters" ... I did cry but nothing happened ...I prayed on my knees but nothing happened... I discussed it with my Christian colleague in our ministry and the answer is God works in mysterious ways and you cannot understand his ways. Why would God allow me to be heart broken and be separated from my only daughter if his ways cannot understand or if his plan is to see me broken hearted and be separated from my daughter. I felt that there was no God at all ..😢
You absolutely are one of my favorite channels. Instead of strawmanning the argument. . . You are charitable to their argument and build it up THEN utterly destroy it with pleasure, enthusiasm, true honest emotions and it is so effective. Ty sir
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Life in Christ is not about religion, it's about being humble enough to admit we ave done wrong/sinned. Only those to proud and self-righteous reject the truth. Everyone has done wrong/sinned. We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. Born with compacity to do wrong/sin. We do not have to teach a child how to lie, cheat, steal, we have to teach them that those things are wrong/sinful. It's called a sinful nature
God is fiction in every religion, culture, and language, everywhere, every second of every day, 365. Religion is no solution for the requirements of humanity in the 21st century, never was. The sooner humanity understands this, the sooner we can get to work in unison for humanity actual.
Thanks for a well researched and presented take on this. Your channel is one that helps me when I step back and say to myself - hey, wait a minute, this doesn't make sense. Still working on stepping right away and "coming out".
That first quote you mentioned from Isaiah is one of the passages that actually convinced me, "Okay, a lot of this is probably best taken allegorically, and was possibly outright *meant* to be taken allegorically and/or as fables." (Though I always hesitate to definitively say "this is what the author(s) of a given text meant" if it's not very obviously telegraphed or stated outright.) I love that passage precisely because it maps so well onto the idea that, "Well, there's so much that we just don't understand about the world/universe/cosmos generally; we might not find all the answers in our lifetimes; and that's a-okay." I would love to do a dvar Torah or otherwise have some sort of learning session on that interpretation of the passage someday, especially cause I like that train of thought so much better than the lines of thinking that I've seen many people take (per this video) that lead to making up excuses for an actual, literal god.
Theologians RELY on being able to understand and make inferences about God, But as soon as that line of reasoning leads to an unpalatable conclusion, they flip over the chess board and declare the whole exercise to be arrogant and futile. Thank you for pointing out this hypocrisy at the very start of the video.
@@above7793 - Both really. Theologians too have historically struggled to answer questions like why God created, and why God punished people in the Bible, etc. Pretty much every committed Christian has to wrestle with these issues, so it's almost always hypocritical for them to resort to skeptical theism as a defense.
Branden, I love how the more you grow the channel and deeper you get into this… it seems (to me anyway) that you get more blunt and “aggravated”. That may not be the perfect word, but I can hear it in your voice a bit. I had the same type of upbringing as you. Just inundated in the bull shit. Then my dad takes his life 13 years ago. He was a legend in the community where I live. Drove church bus, taught Sunday school, and, of course, door to door soul winning. Ugh… I tried my best in Christian school to do what was “right” and be the best little mindless Christian sheep I could be. Defended the mysterious god-myth. I always thought he was quite an aggressive, violent, selfish, egotistical psychopath reigning over us all with an iron fist. So… long story short I got out. My mom hates it and resents me. Pushing the garbage down my throat to this day (I’m 39). Once you’re out, you see how close minded and RIDICULOUS the whole thing actually is. And here’s the deal… I think you may have the same thoughts about this… all I want from them (believers) is an “I don’t know” and a “we can’t know yet”. How hard is that?? Because we truly don’t. We’re discovering more every single day through amazing sciences and study, but at least the “secular world” can say that we don’t know… yet. It takes some humility, which Christian’s do NOT have. I really really appreciate your channel, and I’m happy for you to grow and do great things!! Thanks for all your hard work on these topics and being just real and down to earth! Much love to you and your family! ❤
Thank you for this incredibly thoughtful and motivating comment. So sorry to hear about your dad. I am sure the confusion from that as a believer was so traumatic in addition to the normal hardship of losing someone. Glad you made it out, and yes its very possible, as I continue to hear comment after comment showing just how silly and harmful this religion is that I am getting more blunt, ha.
It takes a very secure and reflective person to write a comment like this. Insecure, frightened and yes, hard of thinking folks, seem to love the assurance of crackpots who speak authoritatively and boldly, while claiming knowledge from one of the books "written by god herself !! (written to show that even the anthropomorphizing destroys this "image of god") Stay steadfast, strong and model the wise authentic humility of appropriately saying "I don't know". The world is so much better with such character !!
@@MindShift-Brandon absolutely, my friend!! We gotta stick together to grow the community!! 😁 I started a suicide prevention organization after he left (non-Christian based) and have reached over a million people so far. all good, man! It’s what we do with our situations that define us. You are proof positive of that. You could be filled with hatred and disdain, yet here you are encouraging people and explaining that they are actually GOOD and WORTH something. Not worms and sinners and awful people who need a savior. No, they need to believe in themselves, just as you believed that starting this channel you could help people see the truth, or at least point them to it. Keep doing what you’re doing because we need more voices like you who speak logically and seek truth and reason. You are right in the middle, balanced where you need to be. No hatred. Just logic. Your wife and family should be proud, although I’m sure your mom probably isn’t 😢 If you want, look me up on Facebook I’d like to connect. Have a fantastic start to your week!
or, especially if you find your version too long, we can go off the intellectual path and give them a more dramatic version: you can have your cake and fukk it, too
What an important channel this is. The way you explain things and verify what you say with facts about the Bible and IN the Bible, has helped me so much. I’m getting so much better at debating. Thank you Brandon!
Thanks for this one. When the ramifications are bad, God's ways are mysterious. But when it's something they like, things like "look at the trees" suffices. The closest I see to some stronger position, is to say that without faith we couldn't know God. But that would entail God asking me to follow and believe without knowing him. So not all that impressive.
Feel better soon! One thing I don't like about this response that you didn't mention is that Christians will use it to keep themselves from questioning things. If a Christian thinks "Why does god tell the Israelites to bash "enemy" babies' heads on to rocks?" (Which just typing it out right now, made me go "wow that's really evil.") Then the Christian will tell themselves "oh, I just must not understand god. His ways are higher then my own." No! Question that! Please! That's what I did. But then again I'm now "one of those scary/angry atheist."
I love the responses you give to theist comments. Thing is, they will never see the hypocrisy, because they are in a cult. That’s the final stage of my deconversion. Recognition that religion / faith is, by definition, a cult. Once I saw that, it became game over.
Notice too how theists resort to this when something doesn't go _their_ way, but they're suddenly an expert when it _does_ or trying to _force_ something to go _their_ way. Hmmm, it's almost like they're just making it up to suit _themselves_ .
I really enjoy this new series! I even shared the first of the series. I hear so many of these and it’s great to have them talked through by you. Keep up all the great work! I hope you feel better soon (I’m suffering from covid, myself).
Christians: “Here’s an 800,000 word book with highly detailed knowledge about God, his character, his actions throughout history and his desires.” Also Christians, when you point out a flaw in the God concept: “You can’t say that! It’s impossible to know God!”
Hey everyone, thanks for being here!
thank you too for the great content !
God bless you!
Yes, we like your voice! But don't keep it for us; get well soon! 😅
@@CheckmateSurvivor😂😂
Thanks for another great discussion. I'm finally getting a chance to catch up on your postings. Happy Sunday!
A lot of the points you made were so pertinent to me in my deconstruction journey. Also, I finally got around to reading 1984 a couple of years ago and it struck me how much I (and the Christians I knew) relied on "doublethink" and "doublespeak" to make our theology work. And as you pointed out, we continue to see it in your comment sections all the time.
Also also, I look forward to buying and reading "You Can't Have Your Faith and Eat it Too"!
“God’s ways are higher, we can’t understand him” and “Here’s what God wants” in the same breath is absolutely bonkers
And it happens so very often
@@MindShift-Brandon far too often, in my honest opinion. Get well soon
We have absolutely NO way of accessing the desires of the divine through our own powers. None. The only reason Biblical believers think that they know ANYTHING about the divine is because they think the divine purposely reached out to humanity.
Religious people are not known for their consistency.
"Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice." - Thomas Paine, describing Christianity.
Wow, somehow, I have never heard this quote. What a gem!
Source?
@@MichaelLevine-n6yThe Age of Reason
@@MichaelLevine-n6yIt is quoted from Thomas Paine's book, "The Age of Reason"
@@MichaelLevine-n6y Thomas Paine "The Age of Reason"
I learn more about the Bible as a atheist then I did as a Christian
You learn? Nope. No you don’t!
If you did you would know that God already made a decision about you and all atheist.
“The fool in his heart says there’s no God.”
@@unc1589 "The fool in his heart says there's a god"
me, 13:15 28.12.23, on RUclips
So what you're saying is that he's not nearly as caring as everyone makes him out to be, and instead decides ahead of time on who's going to be an atheist or not......which completely screws with the idea that he's allowed free will to be a thing.
Either way, it just sounds to me like he truly is heartless, and just using us as an experimental plaything (or worse, metaphorical cattle to feed on, cause for all we know, he might sustain himself on the souls of others), assuming he even exists to begin with of course.@@unc1589
@@unc1589 I am sure you are gaining brownie points with Jesus for running around the internet posting Christian dogma on RUclips channels that deconstruct this religion. Maybe he will upgrade you from business class to first class on your trip to heaven!
@@krembryle
Yes. :)
'God moves in mysterious ways' is an example of a 'thought-terminating cliche', an emergency parachute deployed when someone cannot sustain their argument. Other examples include 'Let's agree to disagree' and 'You'll understand one day.'
oh man, no doubt. Well said!
It's also, in my mind, an immediate concession to something that the Christian (or Muslim or any monotheistic-style believer) really should not be conceding. Saying something like this means you believe one of two things, whether you know it or not:
1) God is a consequentialist, basically a cosmic utilitarian. That means his nature cannot form the basis of goodness, because there is no inherent goodness of nature under consequentialism, only positive and negative outcomes from actions. And if God is a utilitarian, and the thing he wants to maximize is something other than human wellbeing -- which sure seems to be the case -- then we have no good reason to actually do anything God commands. Sure, obeying God's commands might advance God's objectives, but if they don't advance ours, why call God good?
OR
2) God bears no duties to human beings whatsoever, and is free to do anything he wants to them for any justification (or none) whatsoever; human beings bear absolutely zero rights in relation to God that would in any way restrict God's actions. The theist might be nodding in agreement, but this is an awful notion to hold.
First, it appears to be entirely unjustified: If moral rights and duties exist and arise in the relationships of sentient beings to each other, why doesn't God bear any of them in God's relationships, and how does God propose to issue obligatory commands if there is no such relationship?
Second, it flies in the face of everything we understand about good authority: No human being would consent to a government that says "You have no rights at all and I can kill you if I want for no reason at all," and we would say such a government is neglecting its duties to the people for making such an unfair claim to unrestricted power. Likewise, we hold parents and governments accountable for preventable harms that befall children or citizens; why is the being that freely chose to create all life not also accountable to its creations for preventable harms that may befall them? Why is it that a parent who abandons their child or a government that tramples its people is morally blameworthy for failing to live up to obligations they voluntarily took on in exchange for their authority, but God doing the exact same thing is not only not blameworthy, but somehow praiseworthy?
Third, it suggests that there might not be any obligation to obey God's commands: If no rights or duties arise in God when God issues a command, it appears that no duties or rights occur to us when we are commanded, since moral rights and duties are reciprocal; if we do as God commands, what rights do we gain against God for our compliance that God cannot violate, and if God does violate them, what is our recourse but to conclude that God is not good because God does not keep moral obligations that they themselves initiated through the issuance of moral commands? And if God does gain rights and we incur duties unilaterally, what argument grounds and justifies that non-reciprocal authority relationship? I've never seen any apologist who is capable of answering that.
"Neither you nor I understand them (but secretly, I do)."
That's how it reads to me.
God is Jealous and he wants your money to go to "his" temple.
@@MindShift-Brandonlove your take on the Bible god and religion. If you should happen to read this I have information I think you would be interested in but it’s unconventional and hard to explain in a text. I dare say no one else has the material that I have. Check it out.
I can't tell you how greatful i am for channels like this. The decision to go back to another church for the second time lead me to my decision to leave organized religion itself for the final time. I live with my parents who are devout christians and they never make it easy to disconnect for the final time. They gaslight me without even knowing what that is and if i ever told them where i was learning this stuff my mother would probably rip the router from the wall and force me back into the church. I've been indoctrinated since i was a child being punished for things i never understood and being told i may have deserved it. The other kids in my church harassing me telling me i wasn't worthy of it. The pastors telling me i was worthless but with god i wasn't worthless but... i was still pretty wortheless. I hope i can break away from all this crap for good one day.
Arent we all?
I hope you’ve created separate accounts for your atheism/religion content.
In Google apps, you can remove the account from the app’s visibility. Then when you want to use it again, just “Add another account” and fill in the credentials.
By removing the account (from default view) you avoid situations where that account might pop into view while you and a family member are looking at your device.
Another method for hiding content from shoulder surfers is to _in cognito_ mode on your browser.
That way your past searches won’t pop up when your browser is potentially visible to others in the room
Head low til you get your own place in a few yrs brah
At 38 with my own family, I still receive such gaslighting and attempts to make me feel less than human without Jesus (from extended family only). But it's easy to choose to not interact with them anymore. They can't hold me down or trigger those Christian based psychological traps in me anymore.
For the majority of your life, you will also have such power to choose who you subject yourself to. If you don't have such freedom yet, just hang in there because there will come a time when you are much more empowered and not dependent on them.
You are further along than I was at your age. It's a hard, lonely road, especially when surrounded like you are, but truth is truth. Keep digging in!
In my 7 decades I've been told ALL that stuff, and much of it from my relatives. They spin, double talk, gaslight etc, but have the AUDACITY to make it seem like YOU are 'the bad person!"
It really is nuts sonetimes
Well you are a bad person. You are a moral law breaker of God's 10 commandments. Guilty as charged. And that is why you desperately need the Savior The Lord Jesus Christ to save and rescue YOU from all your sin. For without His grace and mercy you remain under the condemnation and wrath of God for your unrighteousness. You can be made a new creation in Christ when you are born again by the Spirit of God. And Jesus did it all because of His love
"For He (God The Father) made Him (Jesus The Son) who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." (2 Corinthians 5:21)
Yep Christianity 101 in action.
You describe the real BS and Abusive coercion really keeping Jesus "alive".
This describes EXATLY what I have to deal with from my family members that believe.
Well, as stated in The Word of God you are definitely not "a good person". Everyone who has come to realize this, is most ready to come to The Lord Jesus Christ and experience the forgiveness and cleansing from all their sin.
This is one of my favourites, "you can't know god, but i sure can!"
Totally.
@@NOMAD-qp3dd Jesus Christ knows the heart of man. Christ knows mans need for Grace and Mercy because man can never become sinlessly perfect accept by faith in the blood that Christ shed on the cross and the finished work that Christ completed on the cross.
@@paulgemme6056
That makes zero sense.
I used to be one of those Christians. Now, every time I hear a Christian say, "God's ways are higher than mine. How dare I question his high and superior ways" and "God works in mysterious ways and I accept God's high and mysterious ways" I want to shake my head and place my palm on my face. It's such a stupid argument.
Imagine if you got sick and found a doctor who told you, "Don't question me. My ways are superior to yours, and I work in mysterious ways that you don't understand and shouldn't dare question. You just have to trust me and have faith in me. "
Nobody would trust that doctor. Be skeptic, be curious, but don't drink the kool-aid.
I hope you get better soon, Brandon.
Love that comparison!
@MindShiftSkeptic I have a question for you, Brandon. Do you think it's odd that Romans, which was written to the Romans in Rome, was written in Greek instead of Latin?
I feel that writing to the Romans in Greek instead of Latin is like writing to a church in France in Spanish instead of French.
They love to say that YOU cannot understsand their god because he's mysterious, as they proceed to tell you how much they understand this god.
Why is it not mysterious to them?
My guess is that they're delusional.
@@JohnmhatheistBecause he wasn’t writing to the average citizen of Rome, but instead to a tiny diaspora group of Hellenized Jews that were living in Rome.
@@DrumWild He's understandable when it's convenient, but he's also mysterious when it's convenient.
Uh oh. I just used logic. I'm going to hell now for questioning God's higher mysterious ways.
Christians: “You can’t possibly understand God. His ways are far beyond our understanding”.
Also Christians: “I have a personal relationship with my God and his Holy Spirit guides me always”……
So to recap, when God doesn’t lift a finger to stop war, suffering, genocide, plagues or any other random evil, you’re supposed shrug your shoulders and just say: “Well, what can I say, he works in mysterious ways”. But then that same person turns around and asks you to truly believe them when they say that, that same God stopped what he was doing, to help them find their lost car keys in the morning….
That was a perfect recap !! (and explains why my forehead is so red from facepalming).
God helping people to find car keys doesn’t bother me in the least. It’s when believers claim to know that “god hates f*gs” and has similarly negative feelings against LGBTQ+, or want people to vote for a particular politician, that I have a problem.
This!! 💯
Not only that, but whenever anything good happens or anyone has anything good, or one human does something good for another, we are supposed to thank god. And whenever anything bad happens it is either humans fault (sin) or the devil's fault, or demons corrupting, or just "god works in mysterious ways" or god is putting forth his, well-deserved by us, wrath. It is the ultimate heads I win, tails you lose, so Christians can keep their mental baby blanket.
Incorrect. It is the consequences of sin that has brought about all the evil, wickedness, darkness, suffering, and death in the world. And it is easily understood if you study the Word of God, The Holy Bible.
God’s ways are only asserted to be unknowable when they involve him doing things that everyone everywhere understands are objectively evil.
yes exactly.
Wow. Crystal clear.
@@OublietteTight Jesus Christ knows the heart of man. Christ knows mans need for Grace and Mercy because man can never become sinlessly perfect accept by faith in the blood that Christ shed on the cross and the finished work that Christ completed on the cross.
@paulgemme6056 heard that conceptional interpretation in previous sermons. Sounds like a great sales pitch, but the manual for what you are selling does not match the advertising campaign. The bible of the christian god contradicts what you just stated. Brandon has scores of books' examples in video after video, book quote after book quote.
Plus, I am not a man. Apparently, the false advertising does not apply to half the population. Or did you mean to reinterpretate your book too by saying it means humans? It does not.
Plus a demi-god reincarnating and being just fine after 3 days is not giving up much. In the grand length of the universe, that is barely a blink. He was supposedly immortal and knew it ahead of the cross? So the whole bleeding on the cross was what...? A performance from a deity to give people a good show? In this perfect story, nothing was really given up. Now if he sent Jesus to hell forever for our sinning... that would actually be a sacrifice. Jesus went to paradise... supposedly?
If pre-Jesus was only for the Jews, then the storyline is what? Heaven was finally open to Men... and by extension HELL was suddenly a danger? So the arrival of Jesus introduced burning forever? Pre-christ no one burned, until he declared we could be saved?
Or was your deity just burning our ancestors without giving them any clue that there were rules? Like a great big child and his all powerful spy glass frying ants for fun?
And perfection? If your deity is all powerful, all seeing, totally in charge of everything... and he wanted perfection, why did he make people who can never achieve the goal? That's like manufacturing a vehicle then pouring sugar in the tank. Whoops, golly, it does not work right. I wonder why?
Let's add one more... sex. If your deity made a son who was supposedly getting to know humans and their tough lives by being one... and he remained a 30+ year old virgin, then he skipped over a massive part of the human experience. We are hormones and needs and love and tenderness. If this Jesus character was too pure to be fully human, why did he bother to become one of us in the first place?
Oh right... so "man" worships only him. Only him. He sounds fragile. He made all the people who worship other deities and thru creating their world and reality he caused them to know of "others"... so as the creator of everything, he created the concepts of other religions. So this bible driven deity created the others we are not supposed to believe in? What? What is this, the Wizard of Oz? "Ignore the man behind the curtain."
Too many loop holes, contractions, insults, flaws and murders in your great book. Or are we doing the "interpret/ do not quote " trick? If we are, then why have the book in the first place. Let's all just make up whatever we really want to be true?
I am ready to listen to answers. I am ready to be proven wrong. Just please try not to use the standard blood loving, he gave up so much comments. I am a follower of channels like this one because I am seeking deeper levels of understanding. Short versions of standard rhetoric has not made me believe for 50+ years.
p.s. I have no negative emotions right now... just 10,000 questions that need debating.
@@OublietteTight God/Jesus Christ has nothing to sell but he has a free gift to give to those who have faith, those who believe are blessed. The free gift of God is eternal life - to know him (Spirit to spirit).
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
John 20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Imagine if any human was caught doing something wrong and when confronted with it offered an excuse of "No, what I was doing was actually completely moral. You just don't understand my reasons, they are to complicated for you to understand." Can anyone honestly say that they would just accept that?
The followers of narcotic leaders accept it, sadly. That is why cults exist.
It is even why Multi Level Marketing organizations are able to continue to make money.
yes, its just so very clear when you take the god glasses off. Thanks!
It's astonishing that people literally worship a father who used one of his sons to perform a human sacrifice to appease himself.
Following the bible too closely ( the way it's Gods propose it to be done) will get a person sent to jail for serious crimes.
@@FoursWithin
_"Following the bible too closely ( the way it's Gods propose it to be done) will get a person sent to jail for serious crimes."_
“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters - yes, even his own life - he cannot be my disciple."
(Luke 14:26-27)
"And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life."
(Matthew 19:29)
“…therefore, none of you can become my disciple if you do not give up all your possessions."
(Luke 14:33)
"Those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them, bring them here and kXXX them in front of me."
(Luke 19:27)
I can't count the number of times I've gotten some form of "we can't understand God's plan" when questioning religious people. It's the ultimate cop-out.
Exactly!
Religious people can’t answer because to be religious (informed by the acts of common man) people don’t know God.
How do I know this?
Read the conversations between Christ an the “religious” leaders.
Just experienced this exact conversation with an ex-pastor. Never making that mistake again!
Its such an easy and lazy fall back in the face of a real issue
@@MindShift-Brandonatheism is lazy-think. It offers nothing to atheists. No answers to anything.
What did you wanna know?
Ask me!
@@unc1589 there’s nothing more to learn. This whole world is a failed experiment.
Listening to MindShift on a Sunday morning is so so so much better than any church, anywhere, at any time, nothing like soothing sound reasoning, goes good with delicious coffee ☕️, thank you Brandon.
Agreed
Yes! Mindshift with Brandon is my Sunday bible teaching and my "tithe!"
Thank you for your work!
Absolutely agree
So happy to be part of your day! thanks for being here.
AND we don't have to sing hymns or hollow "praise" songs. You know, the 7-11 type, 7 words, repeat 11 times. Cheers.
When I was young Catholic kid my first seeds of doubt where planted when I was taught that God is to be praised for all good things, but when he allows/causes bad things it's due to his mysterious ways that no lowly human can hope to understand. Even young Dewey saw that this is indistinguishable from a world where good and bad things happen without supernatural intervention.
Yes, exactly!
It was the fairytale like stories that I was told to believe actually happened while also being shunned for watching cartoons with the same themes that did it for me as a kid.
It's amazing that people still will not let go of an irrational religion of an invisible god that demonstrates nothing.
I cannot say the same for me. To say I would be lying and we know what God saids about lying
We "can't comprehend Him" and yet we know EXACTLY who is "not a true Christian" and "not following God" because we know EXACTLY what God would say and do in every situation and tell his believers to do. It's VERY specific with no room for ambiguity and if people don't do what we KNOW BEYOND A DOUBT God would tell them to do we KNOW they are "sinning" and have not the slightest doubt or hesitation that we might actually be condemning a messenger of God. 🙄
This comment should be pinned.
@@jmparker78 We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. Born with compacity to do wrong/sin. We do not have to teach a child how to lie, cheat, steal, we have to teach them that those things are wrong/sinful. It's called a sinful nature.
I love the way you point out the hypocrisy. Over and over we are supposed to rid ourselves of evil…… except when It’s “God” requiring the evil be done. Then it’s just mysterious
Its really clear once you are out but man when you are in and blinded its darn near impossible to see.
When something good happens in our lives we should fall on our knees and praise the lord, when something terrible happens. well, he has his mysterious ways.
To believe in the Christian god one must choose ignorance of the world over knowledge of the world. It is right there in the Bible. Imagine the poor soul who CHOOSES ignorance.
@tylertucker2608 I am having fun pointing that out on "christian" youtube channels. I never get a response when I post about the ethnic cleansing/genocide by proxy. They just clam up.
@@johntiggleman4686 That God has the power to judge men and nations as recorded in scripture ought to cause us to fear him and to listen up when he speaks! He warns us in the Bible that we face his wrath on account of our sins but that he has made a way for us to escape that judgment in the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus suffered for the sins of all mankind, died, and rose again the third day that we might be forgiven (see 1 Corinthians 15:3-4). All people must trust in Christ as Savior and receive his gift of eternal life through faith in him, or they will perish (see Romans 6:23, John 3:16).
I recently asked somebody what part in Gods plan did people with severe mental health issues play. From childhood until the day they pass, they spend thier entire lives in psychiatric hospitals, and never spend a day free from thier inner torment. Why would God do that to them? Thier answer was the usual platitude, and it let me know that I was talking to an absolute monster. I used to think God was bad, until I met his apologists.
My best friend’s brother has been handicapped from birth because the nurse panicked and pushed him back in when the doctor was late. He never aged mentally past 4 or 5 years old. Hes had many other complications and issues and i remember we met a worship leader who was over at out house and met this brother. He told my best friend that god never intended for him to be this way and it was a sin issue and they needed faith that he would be healed. It is truly disgusting how this religion can show itself.
I sometimes wonder if theyre even aware of how sick and hateful the things they say in defence of thier loving god are.@@MindShift-Brandon
" I used to think God was bad, until I met his apologists."
in defence of the apologists, they have to pay their bills. The g0d does not have to OFF the brains of those poor people, though. Do g0d does it because the g0d loves causing misery.
(rest assured, I DO NOT defend apologists. I am just having fun with the g0d here)
And why is his communication mimic-able? Gods “voice” is surprisingly hard to differentiate from scrupulosity ocd.
I’ve encountered this problem before. Believers claim to know and understand God and his machinations and prescience, yet simultaneously claim that God is mysterious. These claims are in direct conflict with one another to anyone with basic knowledge and reasoning capabilities. It’s amazing to me that they can argue this and not see the glaring contradiction so I believe that they are just being dishonest when they make these claims.
Or just parroting things they don't understand.
Once your eyes and ears are open to the truth, you can't go back to Christianity. Thank you for all your hard work Brandon! ❤
For me it is like trying to believe in the tooth fairy again. 😏 no going back.
Embracing atheism is nuts and stupid. Its a dead end.
You cant go back to any religion.
@@TheMcrico84 why not?
It is indeed. Thank you!
Holy crap, I nearly fell out of my chair when you looked left and right. I cannot count how many times I've wanted to do something like that when reading or hearing some Christian claims. Classic!
Ha. I usually cut my bigger responses but thought id leave this one in. Its just so baffling sometimes!
My "sinful" nature tells me that the Bible is full of contradictions. It also tells me that it is full of nasty fictional stories, violence, warfare, slavery, ignorance, male dominance , hatred, bloodshed, jealousy and other horrible stuff.
The Bible is also without sin, and is supposedly the perfect word of God.
I love how you don't pull any punches when calling out this stuff. It's so refreshing.
Appreciate that; thanks for being here!
"You can't have your faith and eat it too" would also be a great title for a book. Think about that when you publish your first one 😁
This was such a good video. What I've realized is that each person is at the center of their beliefs. It's their own mind that is convinced, it's their own heart that feels God's presence. And it's their own cognitive dissonance that makes them feel threatened when confronted with new ideas.
Somehow though instead of seeing themselves as the main factor, they experience that aspect of themselves as an externalized other. It's crazy what we humans can make believe.
You said it, man!
Everyone creates their own reality. Some people never really examine why they believe things. I have often said that the wonderful thing about humans is that we are capable of rational logical thought. The terrible thing about humans is how often we don't use that capability.
@@TonyLambregts Life in Christ is not about religion, it's about being humble enough to admit we ave done wrong/sinned. Only those to proud and self-righteous reject the truth. Everyone has done wrong/sinned. We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. Born with compacity to do wrong/sin. We do not have to teach a child how to lie, cheat, steal, we have to teach them that those things are wrong/sinful. It's called a sinful nature
@@paulgemme6056 I don't have an issue with recognizing that I can be wrong. When I inevitably do harm I seek to make amends with the people I have hurt regardless of initial intention. If you think I should bypass that than I believe you are incorrect in your analysis of the situation.
“Power is not an antidote for hypocrisy.” Exactly. Might makes right is a dangerous belief. I think many if not most beliebers know this, they just think their god is the exception.
The Son of God coming down as a poor Jew to pay for the sins of man and was crucified on a Roman cross is the exact opposite of "might makes right". Wouldn't you agree?
According to American Atheist, atheist are the largest group who suppose abortion at 90% in USA and is a good example of "might makes right" as it's those who power deciding the fate of the powerless.
Very true.
@@smidlee7747 God LOVES abortion and un-aliving children so get off your high horse. And to turn that on its head, to make abortion illegal turns women into the powerless and the men to have power over them. A rapist has more power over my body than me even though I would actually die from trying to have a child. That completely imbalances the power dynamic between men and women and what happens when power is imbalanced? Abuse. It turns women back into property.
God is all about might makes right. That's literally his entire schtick. "I'm the best. If you don't love and worship me and kill your own children at my whims then I'll punish you or I'll punish innocent people on your behalf. If you don't believe in Santa Claus then I'll punish you for all eternity." What do Christians say at people who doubt? "Why take the chance?" That's a literal threat. If you don't believe what they believe despite their being ZERO evidence or logic to believe it, then you'll be punished. Might makes right.
@@suicune2001 Atheist LOVES to lie on God. Jesus Christ with absolute power did the exact opposite of 90% of atheist , he rise a little girl from the grave and willingly went to the cross to die for the sins of mankind.
I've notice atheist love to believe they are on the same level of existence as God. The Son of God became a man so He can judge man face to face , man to man.
If you want to judge God as a man then God have already got atheist covered as Jesus Christ came down to live as a poor servant. He is the one you will face to be judged as the Son of man.
As God , the Uncreated He can easily raise anyone from the dead as this is His universe and all life comes from Him.
People who say this don't seem to understand that Judgement isn't always a negative evaluation. If you can't judge something to be bad, you can't judge it to be good either.
If we as humans can't know that God's actions are bad, we can't know them to be good either and the religion falls apart.
Exactly!
Great assessment
"If we as humans can't know that God's actions are bad, we can't know them to be good either and the religion falls apart." which is a strawman in reference to any religion like Christianity because it never makes that argument in its source material. Theres actually ZERO teaching that the mystery of God is an answer to moral issues in regard to his actions. ZERO Thats instead actually covered in an an analysis of the definition and nature of morality but oooops Atheists and skeptics never attempt to establish those in debates before debating them( since they would then lose the case)
@@ImtoolVideos So you've never actually read the book of Job? Because I think Brandon already covered this. Ooooops
@@ImtoolVideos First off yes it does, as Brandon noted in the video. Of course it also says the exact opposite. That's the cold fact of a collection of things written by hundreds of people over thousands of years, you will get pretty much every single viewpoint AND IT'S OPPOSITE represented in it's writings.
And second if you really believe that, why are you here telling us this? Why aren't you telling it to the multitude of Christians that make that exact argument every single time in response to those who judge the God of the Bible as depicted to be immoral?
So let me get this straight, I'm supposed to love and know a god who i am literally incapable of understanding? How do I know something I can't know and understand? If i don't understand calculus I can't say I know it right? I can't love someone I am not sure even exists.
And this is the problem with religion. Ha. Nailed it
I guess the idea is that you should just be grateful and accept whatever God gives you. If misfortune befalls a theist, they might just thank God that they didn’t lose more than they did. And if the majority of their lives are miserable, they may thank God that they even existed in the first place.
Might makes right.
All depends on the holy spirit apparently 😅
@@kelseykjarsgaard5774 so the only way to know God is if he reveals himself to you but even then you don't know if it's God or just your thoughts?
@@jashinsdisciple8512 basically lmao
His ways are higher always makes me think of the excuse parents give their kids when they don't know how to explain something. Because I said so kind of explanation. Which is to say no explanation at all.
And their ways were higher than yours because of their experience
“You can’t have your faith and eat it too” I love that. Also I love your videos man!
Thanks so much!
Saying God is good when he is depicted as doing so many horrific things is like saying the desert is wet when you're dying of dehydration in the middle of the Sahara. Even if it were true in some beyond-my-puny-mortal-comprehension way, it's both irrelevant to the current situation and the word loses so much meaning you might as well ditch it and come up with another.
Great comment. Yes!
I agree. It muddies the waters. Is suffering for the greater good or is it a punishment? Are prayers ever not answered, or do we have to wait for just the right time? Do we wait for God to deliver justice, or do we take action ourselves? We’re just left with more questions than answers.
Or him saying that he is giving you water only for you to see that its a cactas he is giving you
@@jojobizarrelivingstone594 Cacti do contain water. Also a measure of hallucinogens in some.
Read about the dehumidifier sales people who ARE selling water to folks in the desert !! They are no different than Elizabeth Holms selling quick cheap diagnostics or crypto currency sales folks. Only preachers are selling post death timeshares and false healings, then getting rich with tax free clubhouses plus cash.
Thanks for understanding what "religion" actually is, the world will be a better place when people thoughtfully recognize what doing GOOD means.
This reminds me of my mom when she'd do what she told us not to, and punished us for having done it: Do as I say, not as I do.
I indeed saw her as a hypocrite and while I came to understand some of what she was talking about once I became a parent (you may not drink alcohol), I could see her behaving a lot like her god. It wasn't difficult to see the gods were fashioned after humans, by humans, because we are all we know.
Well said !!!
Truly there are ways to be a conscious aware parent who at least attempts to minimize hypocritical behavior. And by example minimize it in your children . Because chicken follow examples much closer than most parents are willing to admit when it comes to the impact.
@@onedaya_martian1238 Life in Christ is not about religion, it's about being humble enough to admit we ave done wrong/sinned. Only those to proud and self-righteous reject the truth. Everyone has done wrong/sinned. We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. Born with compacity to do wrong/sin. We do not have to teach a child how to lie, cheat, steal, we have to teach them that those things are wrong/sinful. It's called a sinful nature
You did an excellent job exploring these questions. I get so tired of the God's ways are higher than our ways excuse. I shared this one.
You really hit the nail on the head here. This video is the perfect summary for why I started to question my faith. All the promises, but no results.
Thanks for being here!
@@MindShift-Brandon Thank you! You are brilliant, courageous, and inspirational.
Thats so kind. Thank you.
“Power is not an antidote to hypocrisy.” That is a powerful sentence.
I am so happy about your channel’s growth. The way you talk about, and your knowledge of, the subject matter gives me hope.
I believe you are helping 10s of 1000s (soon to be 100s of 1000s) of people deconstruct their indoctrination, and learn to love the 70 or so years of being a “mere mortal.”
We are all Star dust; no more, no less. I think that’s a beautiful thing.
I know he already explained as much. But I want a more in depth look at this kind of sentence.
This was such an encouraging comment I really appreciate this! Thank you so much
Yay, my Sunday morning sermon!
Lol thanks for being here for it!
Mine too, lol
God bless you!
likewise!
without all the guilt :)
For a moment there I was transported to my radio in the 1970s. Brilliant :).
I love when Christians say that I cannot understand god, and then proceed to tell me how much they understand this god.
Their utter lack of self-awareness is highly impressive.
An excellent summary of this presentation !!
If impressive applies to impressively sad and impressively destructive, I could not agree more !!
It can be baffling
@@MindShift-Brandon We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. Born with compacity to do wrong/sin. We do not have to teach a child how to lie, cheat, steal, we have to teach them that those things are wrong/sinful. It's called a sinful nature.
Really, it's like the Bible was written by a whole bunch of different people, each with their own ideas and agendas.😉Hope you get better soon, Brandon.
Ha, indeed. thank you!
I understand when you're not feeling 100%, it's just great to see you again and I hope you're feeling better soon.
Hope you get better soon Brandon!
I have mentioned this before but Christians don't seem to understand that these apologetic arguments can be used by other religions the same way they use them.
Muslims could respond to Christians who see problems in the Koran by saying, "You can't understand Allah, his ways are higher." or "You are in no position to question the Koran, which is the word of Allah, the god that created you." or "A fool in his heart says that Allah doesn't exist."
Exactly, it's just so obvious and sad how one-track each believer is about their own version of god. And thank you!
The Bible is God's word given to about 40 men over a 1,500-year period which has a central theme of his work in history to provide salvation for mankind through his Son, Jesus Christ. The Old Testament, which foretold of Jesus' sufferings for our sins, was complete and in place among the Jews for hundreds of years before his birth. God pinned the first coming of Christ on the timeline of history before it happened as recorded in Daniel 9:25-26. We live at a time in history where we look back on Jesus' coming, to atone for sin as foretold in Isaiah 53, and we await his soon return (ref. 1 Thessalonians 1:10). God is regathering the scattered children of Israel into the land of their forefathers (see Jeremiah 31:10), a key event which must take place before Jesus' return. We can trust the holy scriptures, God's word, a book without compare in the earth, which tells us of salvation through faith in Christ Jesus (ref. 2 Timothy 3:15).
@@sm8johnthreesixteen We don't actually know who wrote many books of the Bible. We have names attached to them or thoughts of who wrote them. A lot of the books were written during the Babylon captivity and later so not 1,400 years. The OT verses that supposedly talk about Jesus are either not Messianic or talking about someone else. The gospel writers went back and took those verses and constructed the narrative of the gospels to have those points. Isaiah 53 is talking about the suffering servant, which is Israel. If you are waiting for Jesus's return you will be waiting indefinitely. Jesus made false prophecies about the coming of the son of man which makes him a false prophet and therefore not from god. His followers made up his resurrection and divinity. The bible is not too different than other religious books in that it claims to be god's word but has inaccurate claims about history and science.
I've just started deconversion and my family thinks that I am going through a phase. Not sure how to keep my sanity without showing them the BS in the bible. I don't want to take their faith away but once you see the obvious it's hard to pretend. I think if I went to church again I would laugh out loud at the magical thinking. Thanks for your channel Brandon. Hope you feel better soon
It’s annoying to hear family members regurgitate garbage from scriptures, and it’s therapeutic to speak your mind. I don’t go picking fights in person, but if someone says something erroneous, I don’t hold back anymore. Feels great.
Samething here
Just wait til one of them needs chemotherapy to survive cancer... then ask them to imagine if the scientists chose ignorance over knowledge of the world.
Im the same my wife is catholic and even though shes not that religious she gets mad when i start asking questions. Good thing none of my kids believe in this nonsense either.
Matt Dillahunty had a good way of dealing with family stress:
Something like: “Let Jesus convince me in his way.” MD said it better
I was just having a discussion about this with a Christian friend of mine. I was trying to articulate this and I think I did alright, but this perfect. Thanks for doing what you do!
so glad to help vocalize the insanity! thanks for being here.
I remember when I was still a believer, but I was in my doubting and deconstructing phase, and I was asking a friend about some blatant (at least to me) logical contradictions in regards to God's actions compared to his supposed nature. And I basically got given the excuse of "well God's mind and understanding is infinite and ours is just finite so who are we to question him?"
And I heard that regurgitated in youth group settings too, even without anyone asking, probably as a pre-emptive hand-waiving away of any doubts someone might have.
It is all a really convenient way for them to be able to give God all the credit for good things while giving him none of the responsibility for the bad things.
If god made us too stupid to understand "his ways", then he can't complain when we think he's a dick. Especially when he knew that would happen and did it anyway. If I get mad at a pre-schooler for not understanding non-linear algebra, I'm the idiot here.
I’ll just say, every time that you say, “but I digress,” I’m really happy that you took a moment for the tangent. It’s always a perfect example of how things actually play out.
Thanks for that!
Anytime I'm confronted with someone saying I need to trust them but can't or won't provide information so I can't verify their trustworthiness, my B.S. meter pegs. Whether that takes the form of "god's ways are higher," "it's a mystery of faith," or just a plain old, "just trust me bro."
Exactly! Perfectly put.
God of the Gaps... another good book title! It blows my mind, reading through the comments, how many people once claimed Christianity and now have left. Seems like so many well-meaning folks and like myself, just couldn't wrap their head around or make work certain constructs in Christianity. Being new to this channel, I thought the comment section would be a bunch of haters of religion and it's communities, boy was I wrong! It makes me feel better that I'm not alone in this "mindshift". Thank you to all those who share your stories!
There are of course many antitheiests but i agree with you. Most atheists seem to just be normal people who wanted to belief or did belief at one point but were honest enough with themselves to leave the faith when their eyes were opened. We all have friends and families and dreams and lives just like christians, just without the fairytale part anymore. I too am energized and comforted by everyone who shares. Thanks for being here!
You'll find such haters here. I know because I used to be one. There are certain religious groups that I tolerate more than others. Having been raised Catholic, groups like the Unitarians are leagues more pleasant to be around; sure, a part of me is still irked by their Christian beliefs, but because they seem to focus more on genuinely improving life on Earth rather than whining about getting into Heaven or avoiding Hell, it feels difficult to get mad at them.
Don't get me wrong, I still hate what religion does to people, but I learned to not always be militant about it. Now, I am a militant antitheist whenever a militant theist comes about. So yeah, wherever you find one of those religion spammers (online or not), you can reasonably expect to find me there, and you'll know it's me when I apply logic to their "professing" with a generous sprinkling of mockery on it. I wish I knew who said this, but it has served my heart - and my sanity - so well: "If you cannot laugh at your own beliefs, you need better beliefs."
@@DavidRichardson153 Thank you for the honesty.
We have a couple of religious trolls that constantly post on these videos, being Justas399 and Christopher Gibson.
@@DavidRichardson153 Love that quote!
George H Smith delved deeply into this dissonance. He called it the anthropomorphic/agnostic dichotomy. But I just see it like this: the more _personal_ characteristics you give your god, the heavier your burden of proof.
Ohh love that line!
Brandon, I’m sure you’re aware of the Shapiro/O’Connor debate that took place last week. Your topic today was a large-scale undertone in Shapiro’s talking points. It was a fantastic debate, and I’m interested in your perspective on it and, in particular, the fact that the “mystery” proposed by Shapiro make it significantly more difficult to hear him speak so definitively about doctrine. Thanks as always… your posting schedule is nearly as impressive as your thoughtfulness.
Thanks so much! I have it saved to watch later. So excited to get into it.
I saw the video! Shapiro reminded me of Jordan Peterson!!! Shapiro likes to oversimplify!!!
@@juanarocho973 Life in Christ is not about religion, it's about being humble enough to admit we ave done wrong/sinned. Only those to proud and self-righteous reject the truth. Everyone has done wrong/sinned. We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. Born with compacity to do wrong/sin. We do not have to teach a child how to lie, cheat, steal, we have to teach them that those things are wrong/sinful. It's called a sinful nature
OMfg I HATE this copout. I've recently had a discussion with a former buddy of mine who turned to YEC and he brought this up. I told him 'Bro. If I was in a cult, I'd want you to tell me.' He didn't grasp what I was saying. Oh hey look at that! Your supporters are growing exponentially! Great job Brandon. Quality content as always.
No no no, you don't understand, the DNA is like Shakespeare and if you put 16 red naked monkeys in a room with typewriters for a billion billion years, they'd never type out Romeo and Juliet, it's like 10x56 with a gadzillion zeroes after it.
You have to have more faith to believe THAT!
_"Bicycles don't just POP into existence."_ ~ WLC
It really can make the blood boil. It is just such a cop-out! And thank you!
XD Holy shit I legitimately laughed out loud for this one!!@@michaelsbeverly
Right... YOU can't understand God's mysterious ways...but I DO. Nevermind that uncountable millions of other believers will disagree with my interpretation of His ways... I'm a REAL Christian. In His love, God will smite you for not believing in me.
I am VERY exhausted with the religious and their lying bullshit.
Yes exhausted is the right word especially on issues like this that are so obvious
I can count on one hand the number of guys I’ve known in my life who I consider both brilliant and mentors of mine. Thanks to you I now need two hands to count that number.
Thats simply an amazing compliment. Thank you!
That book title “Can’t have your faith and eat it too” is amazing. !!
I say your voice is more necessary than whoever these ones have been listening to. Especially in these tumultuous times. Thank you.
Thats very kind. Thank you.
I burst out into laughter when you turned to one side then the other discussing the contradictions. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
lol, sometimes it just really baffles me, ha. thanks for watching.
I never understood why god would punish people for simply not getting him even though we mentally can't but yet he still punishes those who think differently
Right?!
don't even bother. I mean, the g0d punishing you for something YOU cannot understand. Bad enough. But the g0d also punishes you for an apple eaten by totally NOT you.
understanding of a deity makes a fine deepity. it's always either trivial and true or critically important and mYsTeRiOuS.
I left organized religion 1 year ago. I had so many confusing thoughts in the deconstructing process. I was so confused, I couldn't even put my thoughts into words. You have a very nice articulate and calm way of explaining things. This is so helpful!
I am really glad to be useful, thank you!
As a wise person once said
"Those without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"
Great video. I think this kind of borders divine hiddenness in a lot of ways
Yes for sure. Its more abuse on the victim and making excuses for this absentee god.
👋. I figured I'd see you here. You both rock.
Man, this is so solid! What a way to compile and confront the verses… I’m in the early “exiting “ stages and find your stuff way valuable… my mind is shifting…. Kudos!
Oh wow. Thats so encouraging to hear. Good luck on this insane journey. Reach out if you need anything!
Wow! You are good! If I wasn’t already an atheist, I’d declare right now. 😊 Seriously, good stuff. Thank you.
Ha. What a cool compliment. Thank you!
I once was in a bad situation and I prayed and shed tears and my tears dropped on my bible and with full faith i believe in the verse in Isaiah that says "I ll be with you though you cross fire or waters" ... I did cry but nothing happened ...I prayed on my knees but nothing happened... I discussed it with my Christian colleague in our ministry and the answer is God works in mysterious ways and you cannot understand his ways.
Why would God allow me to be heart broken and be separated from my only daughter if his ways cannot understand or if his plan is to see me broken hearted and be separated from my daughter.
I felt that there was no God at all ..😢
He is there
We should call this apologetic "The Big Dodge."
You absolutely are one of my favorite channels. Instead of strawmanning the argument. . . You are charitable to their argument and build it up THEN utterly destroy it with pleasure, enthusiasm, true honest emotions and it is so effective. Ty sir
This was a really encouraging a and kind comment…thanks so much!
I've been told my low, radio voice is sexy 😂
You're forgiven 🙏🏻 hahaha
If God's idea of goodness is so different from ours as to be incomprehensible, I don't see why I should want it.
Exactly
It's all part of the sacrifice. God's better than your idea of goodness, right?
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_Geoguessr Life in Christ is not about religion, it's about being humble enough to admit we ave done wrong/sinned. Only those to proud and self-righteous reject the truth. Everyone has done wrong/sinned. We are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners. Born with compacity to do wrong/sin. We do not have to teach a child how to lie, cheat, steal, we have to teach them that those things are wrong/sinful. It's called a sinful nature
Now tell them god is love, out of nowhere you understand God perfectly and you can talk as much about him as you want whitout getting called out
Under the weather voice is still good. I used to hear these things all the time i even used them.
I love your videos, Brandon! You’ve inspired me to read my Bible and see what’s actually in there (and make videos of it😅). Thank you!
God is fiction in every religion, culture, and language, everywhere, every second of every day, 365. Religion is no solution for the requirements of humanity in the 21st century, never was.
The sooner humanity understands this, the sooner we can get to work in unison for humanity actual.
Love to hear that! Good luck on the channel. I'll take a look and thank you!
This is the kind of stuff we need more of! 👍
Thanks for a well researched and presented take on this. Your channel is one that helps me when I step back and say to myself - hey, wait a minute, this doesn't make sense. Still working on stepping right away and "coming out".
Glad to be helpful!
Even when sick his voice is nice. ^w^ Hope you get well soon.
I want a t shirt that says “ you can’t have your faith and eat it too”!❤️
Another commenter made another edit to call it you cant have your faith and see it too. I love it!
Me too
Bill O'Riely ( typical Christian) " Tide comes in, tide goes out. We don't know how that works."
Thank you Brandon for breaking it all down have a good day.
That first quote you mentioned from Isaiah is one of the passages that actually convinced me, "Okay, a lot of this is probably best taken allegorically, and was possibly outright *meant* to be taken allegorically and/or as fables." (Though I always hesitate to definitively say "this is what the author(s) of a given text meant" if it's not very obviously telegraphed or stated outright.) I love that passage precisely because it maps so well onto the idea that, "Well, there's so much that we just don't understand about the world/universe/cosmos generally; we might not find all the answers in our lifetimes; and that's a-okay." I would love to do a dvar Torah or otherwise have some sort of learning session on that interpretation of the passage someday, especially cause I like that train of thought so much better than the lines of thinking that I've seen many people take (per this video) that lead to making up excuses for an actual, literal god.
Theologians RELY on being able to understand and make inferences about God, But as soon as that line of reasoning leads to an unpalatable conclusion, they flip over the chess board and declare the whole exercise to be arrogant and futile. Thank you for pointing out this hypocrisy at the very start of the video.
Yes exactly!
Not entirely familiar with theology but it seems you mean apologists instead of theologians
(I'm neither btw)
@@above7793 - Both really. Theologians too have historically struggled to answer questions like why God created, and why God punished people in the Bible, etc. Pretty much every committed Christian has to wrestle with these issues, so it's almost always hypocritical for them to resort to skeptical theism as a defense.
Great informative videos based on reality and facts.
Thank you!
Branden, I love how the more you grow the channel and deeper you get into this… it seems (to me anyway) that you get more blunt and “aggravated”. That may not be the perfect word, but I can hear it in your voice a bit. I had the same type of upbringing as you. Just inundated in the bull shit. Then my dad takes his life 13 years ago. He was a legend in the community where I live. Drove church bus, taught Sunday school, and, of course, door to door soul winning. Ugh… I tried my best in Christian school to do what was “right” and be the best little mindless Christian sheep I could be. Defended the mysterious god-myth. I always thought he was quite an aggressive, violent, selfish, egotistical psychopath reigning over us all with an iron fist. So… long story short I got out. My mom hates it and resents me. Pushing the garbage down my throat to this day (I’m 39). Once you’re out, you see how close minded and RIDICULOUS the whole thing actually is. And here’s the deal… I think you may have the same thoughts about this… all I want from them (believers) is an “I don’t know” and a “we can’t know yet”. How hard is that?? Because we truly don’t. We’re discovering more every single day through amazing sciences and study, but at least the “secular world” can say that we don’t know… yet. It takes some humility, which Christian’s do NOT have. I really really appreciate your channel, and I’m happy for you to grow and do great things!! Thanks for all your hard work on these topics and being just real and down to earth! Much love to you and your family! ❤
Thank you for this incredibly thoughtful and motivating comment. So sorry to hear about your dad. I am sure the confusion from that as a believer was so traumatic in addition to the normal hardship of losing someone. Glad you made it out, and yes its very possible, as I continue to hear comment after comment showing just how silly and harmful this religion is that I am getting more blunt, ha.
It takes a very secure and reflective person to write a comment like this. Insecure, frightened and yes, hard of thinking folks, seem to love the assurance of crackpots who speak authoritatively and boldly, while claiming knowledge from one of the books "written by god herself !! (written to show that even the anthropomorphizing destroys this "image of god")
Stay steadfast, strong and model the wise authentic humility of appropriately saying "I don't know". The world is so much better with such character !!
@@MindShift-Brandon absolutely, my friend!! We gotta stick together to grow the community!! 😁 I started a suicide prevention organization after he left (non-Christian based) and have reached over a million people so far. all good, man! It’s what we do with our situations that define us. You are proof positive of that. You could be filled with hatred and disdain, yet here you are encouraging people and explaining that they are actually GOOD and WORTH something. Not worms and sinners and awful people who need a savior. No, they need to believe in themselves, just as you believed that starting this channel you could help people see the truth, or at least point them to it. Keep doing what you’re doing because we need more voices like you who speak logically and seek truth and reason. You are right in the middle, balanced where you need to be. No hatred. Just logic. Your wife and family should be proud, although I’m sure your mom probably isn’t 😢 If you want, look me up on Facebook I’d like to connect. Have a fantastic start to your week!
I dont have facebook but email me. Id love to learn more about your hotline
Wow! This guy is no joke👍!!! Absolutely LOVE this channel! Thank you!
I like the title "You can have your cake and not force someone else to eat it too" Might be too long.Get better soon!
Thank you!
or, especially if you find your version too long, we can go off the intellectual path and give them a more dramatic version:
you can have your cake and fukk it, too
What an important channel this is. The way you explain things and verify what you say with facts about the Bible and IN the Bible, has helped me so much. I’m getting so much better at debating. Thank you Brandon!
Thank you, Lori! So happy to help
woah Brandon, i’m digging the voice to be honest. anyway, get well soon, buddy! great video as always
Thanks so much. And lol stick around even when im not Barry white anymore please.
Thanks for this one.
When the ramifications are bad, God's ways are mysterious.
But when it's something they like, things like "look at the trees" suffices.
The closest I see to some stronger position, is to say that without faith we couldn't know God. But that would entail God asking me to follow and believe without knowing him. So not all that impressive.
Feel better soon! One thing I don't like about this response that you didn't mention is that Christians will use it to keep themselves from questioning things. If a Christian thinks "Why does god tell the Israelites to bash "enemy" babies' heads on to rocks?" (Which just typing it out right now, made me go "wow that's really evil.") Then the Christian will tell themselves "oh, I just must not understand god. His ways are higher then my own." No! Question that! Please! That's what I did. But then again I'm now "one of those scary/angry atheist."
Yes, great point. It's as much a defense for their own brain as it is a retort towards me.
Hope you feel better soon. Gotta admit I like your voice how it normally is. It’s really nice to listen to your videos while working or doing chores.
So kind. Thank you!
"God doesn't need logic"
- - Every Christian at one point or another
I love when Brandon quotes from the book of Doot
Lol! I have just given up
I love the responses you give to theist comments.
Thing is, they will never see the hypocrisy, because they are in a cult.
That’s the final stage of my deconversion. Recognition that religion / faith is, by definition, a cult.
Once I saw that, it became game over.
C U L T
Christians
Undermining
Logical
Thoughts
Bravo! Once again, you tell it as it is! Thanks, Brandon.
Many thanks!
Good health to you and yours.
Thank you!
"No no no no. I am not an idiot.
I can tell the difference between a parable a metaphor, an allegory and a literal description."
- Brandon
Notice too how theists resort to this when something doesn't go _their_ way, but they're suddenly an expert when it _does_ or trying to _force_ something to go _their_ way. Hmmm, it's almost like they're just making it up to suit _themselves_ .
I really enjoy this new series! I even shared the first of the series. I hear so many of these and it’s great to have them talked through by you.
Keep up all the great work! I hope you feel better soon (I’m suffering from covid, myself).
Thanks so much m, Angela. You feel better too!
Christians: “Here’s an 800,000 word book with highly detailed knowledge about God, his character, his actions throughout history and his desires.”
Also Christians, when you point out a flaw in the God concept: “You can’t say that! It’s impossible to know God!”
Perfect!
You were right. That low radio voice is incredible!
lol, please still listen when im back to normal!