I have always thought that the F104 wing is proof that Newton’s third law takes precedence over Bernoulli’s principle. Can you talk about that sometime Ron? Thanks!
It’s been a hot minute since I took fluid mechanics but my general recollection is that when one wishes to derive, integrate, or otherwise show the primary equations of state (like Bernoulli or Navier-Stokes) it is fundamentally necessary to use Newton’s laws of motion to get there from first principles. Newton’s laws are prerequisites to understanding everything that followed.
I just learned something new about the F-104 this morning. When the flaps get past 30 degrees, bypass air from the turbine gets passed over them. If you've ever flown the F-104 in simulator, when you go full flaps, it's a surprisingly tight turner. Bernoulli is actually working overtime on the F-104. I used to have the exact same opinion as you just a few hours ago. I would link to the video but RUclips hates that.
@@AnthonyMartinez Okay, that's a bunch of deconstructionist gobbly gook. "In thrust we trust" is one of the oldest memes in the book for a reason. And yes, it's absolutely true, lots of things fly without considering Bernoulli if you got enough thrust.
In the early 1970s the Puerto Rican Air National Guard was flying 104s out of Marin International Airport. I was amused to see PRANG painted on the side of each 104.
In 1970 I was in a Navy F-4 squadron at Oceana NAS and we spent a week or so at Roosevelt Roads NAS. One day I wandered down to the runway just in time to see a PRANG F-104 buzz the runway right on the deck and hit afterburner and pull up into a vertical climb. It was very impressive, and the only time I ever saw a 104 in the air. Apparently this was a favorite activity of fighter pilots because I saw Air Force F-106s do the same thing at Oceana. Another great plane, the 106.
@@flexairz Not really at all, the German version was used as fighter bomber and flew with a very high wingload, which was a political decision (coming with corruption), technical problems happened because licence built Starfighters were not assambled with the right tools (hydraulic problems, flaps moved assymetric), maintenance crews were trained only for a short time period, the Starfighters had not shelters in the beginning and were affected by the rainy weather in Germany, pilots had also only little time to learn to fly the 104 in the USA and there was a big gap in performace of the fighters the German Air Force had before. After the inspector of the German Air Force was replaced by Johannes Steinhoff, the infrastructure around the 104 became better and the crash rate was similar to other fighters of this time.
12:12 Love it how he anticipates that some aviation junkies like us will jump to mention it in the comments that other aircraft that have BLC or similar tend to do the roll or such if cut to to idle abruptly, e.g. Mig-21 😜
LOVE "The Zipper". Will never forget being a Lieutenant at Whiteman AFB (ICBMs), coming off alert one morning in 1985, and seeing a NASA F-104 refueling on the ramp. I diverted to the flightline, and noticed the pilot-- Rogers Smith. He was gracious enough to let my crew partner and I go out ot the airplane and gawk. Will never forget it.
Starfighters, Inc. (based at KSC) offers dual training in the -104 up to and including the type rating. I did some research a couple of years ago when I briefly toyed with the idea of getting the rating, but was unable to justify the $100K+ cost just to have it on my certificate. Airworthy -104s do occasionally change hands, though it would make a less-than-ideal personal toy. Maintenance, fuel consumption, proficiency flying, etc. would all add up in a hurry, to say the least. I've been enjoying your channel for awhile; thanks for another interesting video.
Sometime in the spring of '69, while upgrading in the F-100 at Luke AFB, I taxied to the runway and held short, observing what appeared to be an F-i04 2-ship arriving for a formation landing. It turned out that one airplane was on a straight-in and the other had flown an overhead pattern ending up slightly above and slightly behind the straight-in. Neither was aware of the other and they collided pretty much in front of me in the flare. The first airplane bounced due to the impact and stayed on the runway. The second airplane pitched up and the J-79 shrieked as the pilot started a go-around. During this whole event there was radio silence. Finally, the pilot going around came on the radio and I recall his words as "Well, it looks like this son-of-a-bitch is going to fly but I will need a chase". He needed a chase because he has lost the sleek nose cone and with it the pitot tube. Therre was just a bunch of electronic gear in front of the firewall as they came in to land but all got on the ground in one piece. Probably needed a change of flight suits.
My grandfather, Vic Horton, flew the NASA F-104s out of Edwards back in the day. One time, him and Bill Dana (X-15 pilot) buzzed his hometown, Coalinga, in one of the two-seaters at 6 a.m.. The famous "Starfighter howl" woke the whole town up, LOL.
Fun fact: The Italian Air Force raced one of their F-104s against a few different F1 cars in the early '80s (I think it was over a standing kilometre, or about 0.62 miles). After losing to the jet, Gilles Villeneuve (Canadian driver for Ferrari at the time) had his mechanics remove the rear wing from his car to cut some drag, which definitely improved his top speed, but at the cost of a bit of high speed stability.
I did a narration of High Flight to the backdrop of the F104 that was used to sign off TV as a member of Footprints of Freedom at at BYU in the early 70’s.
I knew the distinctive howl of the CF-104 from a stint at Lahr, Germany, as one of its air defence gunners. Our 6-gun troop of 40mm Boffins was deployed along the active and when the Starfighters scrambled, it was a good idea to have your hearing protection on.
Dec 1984, I was standing on the Flightline at Castle AFB in front of a B-52 during an exercise, when I heard this interesting howl zipping down the runway a hundred feet or so off the deck......... it was a single seat NASA marked F-104. Seeing that made my freaking day. I honestly never thought I'd see one in the air, at least in the States.
Learned a lot about BLC working on Navy F-4J's on the deck of the USS Ranger in the mid 70's. If one taxied past you with the wings folded and you didn't duck you'd swear somebody punched you in the back of the head. If they came up on power, like say making a 90* pivot the BLC stream would knock you off or feet.
Great story about the F-104. I have always liked it. It smoked like hell - must have been that single J-79. It was basically a pilot sitting on a powerful engine. I also liked the fact that it was a t-tailed supersonic aircraft, which there weren't many. Wasn't the other one just he F-101 Voodoo?
I have a flight simulator MSFS and this aircraft and in VR every thing is simulated. Land with 80% power 180 kts chop the throttle before touch down and drop like a brick. This aircraft was also very difficult to go super sonic with a certain technique that's also stimulated.
My father was a fighter pilot also - I grew up in various air bases housing waking up for school under the thundering howling of the J79 of the early morning squadron's sorties and returned at noon under the J79 whistling when they were landing ....
I saw (and heard…!) the 104’s overhead as a kid in the early 70’s. Also got to really ‘inspect’ one several times at a museum, before they sort of fenced it in. Those wings… These days, I haven’t even dared to “fly” it in the MSFS flight sim - but may give it a crack after Ron’s review here of its expected configuration and limits. As always, thanks for sharing your stories on the 104…!
The F-104 is my favorite aircraft to fly in MSFS. It underperforms compared to the specs, but its still a lot of fun, Cramming it onto the runway at St Barts is a great challenge. Next I need to try Courchevel. Pretty sure Lukla is out of reach
The story goes NF104 by the TPS lacks RCS thrusters. The reason for lack of the thrusters was because they are not on the aircraft anymore. In 1978 Darryl Greenamyer somehow convinced the powers that be at Edwards to “loan” him the nose and wingtips off of the NF-104 on display there with the promise that they would be returned unharmed. He was allowed to remove them and had installed them on his airplane when he was forced to eject from his aircraft and the plane was destroyed.
North American had the X-15 parked on the south side of LAX in 1959 and I remember seeing it as a kid as we landed on a flight from Stapleton on a Continental 707 with the golden tail. Those were the days.
I am not a pilot. I do however remember a Space Shuttle pilot being asked what it was like to land the Shuttle. His response, "It's like flying a brick."
Today's pilots are great, but it was a different breed back then. Really had to stay on top of the plane mentality and physically. Awesome content as usual.
It seemed like a steam locomotive coming very Fast and very low ...lots of Smoke ! I was nineteen , 2lt. , Webb AFB ...hot and bored at the RSU ... I was intrigued , but didn't want to ask Stupid questions ( Student Pilots mantra's ). Then I saw the T tail , the landing gear and was happy as hell !!! This was my Favorite Fighter with the Saab Viggen second place ...what an amazing beast this F 104 was ! , it passed us like a silver lightning ! The T 37s looked like little toads chugging along. Happy Times as a young 2lt .
That 104 is still one of the most aesthetically beautiful fighter jets ever made. Also, absolutely love the aerobatic biplane, family twin and I really love that burgundy stingray. Good for you bro! You earned it.
When i got to south base in 88 nasa was still flying their 104's. Great insight and info on this bird. And it is the angriest sounding jet ever. When you herd it you knew whst it was. Takeoff...wait 20 mins and it was back in the pattern howling and growling . Love it.
Very interesting video which awakened some nice memories, thanks! Re. the BLC system, when you pulled the power back you'd fall out of the sky only if the flow was interrupted asymmetrically. The plane would roll abruptly to the side of the failed system and if you were close to the ground that'd be it. With some experience and caution one could land with LAND flaps and thrust at idle. Not saying it was the smart thing to do but, being young and "immortal", it was hard not to try. The power reduction had to be really slow though.
Great stories! Thanks for sharing. I had the honour of knowing a retired RCAF test/factory acceptance pilot who successfully accomplished two surprise! 'deadstick' landings during his career in the F104. He also had many other fascinating memories of his test pilot days. Obviously, that kind of flying represents a pinnacle of accomplishment within our profession. Respect!
One of my Dad's best friends was in the RCAF, eventually becoming a Maj. General, and flew CF-104s among many others types. A very early memory of mine, probably when I was 4 or 5, was standing out in the yard and having a Starfighter pass right over me at about 500 feet and 500 knots. I wish so much someone had been able to take a picture of my face when that happened, because I'm sure my eyes were the size of dinner plates! 😂 I don't remember anyone telling me who it was that flew over, but it only makes sense that it was my Dad's friend. He flew right over our town, which they typically avoided when flying low level. I'm sure he had called ahead to let some folks know that they'd see him, and I sure as hell did!! A few years later, the very first model aircraft I built was an F-104, such was the impact of that moment in 1969 or 1970!
Thank you for the F-104 stories. It's my favorite aircraft. That amazing thin, tiny wing. Spent hours as close as I could get in the museums at Boeing Field and Air & Space Museum in DC.
@@smark1180The F-104 was designed by Kelly Johnson after he took a trip to Korea to talk with fighter pilots about what they needed to beat the Migs. Two words kept coming up. Higher, faster. Kelly made it go higher and faster. The F-104 was the first aircraft to simultaneously hold the FIA records for airspeed and altitude.
So I listened to everything you said about flying a visual approach.in the F104. I can't imagine flying an instrument approach with weather/gusts/ low minimums. I'm thinking "no thank you".
Thanks for this video, first hand experience of the 104 is not that common any more. It’s always amusing/interesting/comforting to know that NASA keeps birds in the air which otherwise would be parked in Nevada! You did mention Germany in passing, if you are prepared to comment I would be interested in your views on the high number of loss3s they had with this plane?
I certainly remember the distinctive sound of the F-104 flown by the Luftwaffe in the early 70’s coming into RAF Upper Heyford where I was Air Force Crash-Fire-Rescue. We had several fire calls for hot brakes on their a/c during that time.
My first posting in the RCAF was in Cold Lake in 91. I was talking 104s with one of the guys at AETE (Aerospace Engineering Test Establishment) and he showed me some drawings that were done up in the early 80s to fit a new GE 404 engine into one of the Starfighters. It required some ballast in the tail due to weight differences, but basically was a solid plan. The 404 is smaller and lighter than the J-79 by a huge margin. Apparently Ottawa got wind of it and shut that idea down in a hurry. I think they were afraid of what it would be capable of- same thrust, half the weight, and almost half the fuel consumption... would have been a sight to see.
Awesome. Thanks for sharing. I completed some training with a fella who flew these in Germany. The highest altitude they flew was around 300 agl. Best training I ever had.
I'm pretty sure the Red Barron didn't have a problem extending the heat, it was that the left main wouldn't lock. I've read he attempted several touch and gos to test whether the gear was safe before finally admitting defeat and punching out
Was stationed at Homestead AFB in 69, saw the last 8 months of the F 104 were there, they were parked outside the hanger I worked in F 4E engine shop, all the F 104s had j 79-19 engines. There engine shop was part of our hanger
My favorite jet fighter. I saw many airshows in Canada with our CF-104's flying demonstrations. The sexiest jet fighter ever penned. Plus the howling sound was always memorable. 🥰🥰🥰The Starfighter. 🥰🥰🥰 Thanks for your info on flying this fantastic jet fighter.😎👍
That's a good question. I've yet to see a F-104 that doesn't have a puddle under the middle of the jet. I did see a Starfighters jet with a bucket of hydraulic fluid under it after/before flying.
It would be good to explain that NASA continued to fly F-104s at Edwards well into the 1990s. I dont remember which got retired first, the F-104 or the SR-71, but both around the same time. There used to be one prominently displayed at the Air Force Academy right by the chapel wall. But that got bounced to be replaced by an F-15. That happened maybe in the mid-90s as well.
Considering the high accident rate, and number of fatal accidents, suffered by the West German air force would you say the F104 was just too difficult to fly?
@@ronrogers As a very very ex Piper PA-28 pilot anything more demanding than that aircraft would have got me into a whole lot of trouble very quickly😂 And thanks for the reply😀
Ron, the last flyable civilian 104 i saw was at Ellington Field, Houston. Beautiful light blue and white paint scheme in ‘87. Spotted it in a hangar there and unfortunately didn’t get to see it airborne.
With the horsepower and gearing that Corvette is probably capable of those speeds under the right conditions. I thought they were ZL1's not Z06's but I'm definitely no 'vette expert and I'm sure Ron knows his own car, but I digress...
The F-104 is not a power limited aircraft; it's limitations lie in the air frame. 40 lbs per g! Wow. Astounding to think the airplane can do 6 gs. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:F-104A_flight_envelope.jpg
![Cody Johnson - I'm Gonna Love You (with Carrie Underwood) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yy9PuYMU29g/mqdefault.jpg)
I have always thought that the F104 wing is proof that Newton’s third law takes precedence over Bernoulli’s principle. Can you talk about that sometime Ron? Thanks!
It’s been a hot minute since I took fluid mechanics but my general recollection is that when one wishes to derive, integrate, or otherwise show the primary equations of state (like Bernoulli or Navier-Stokes) it is fundamentally necessary to use Newton’s laws of motion to get there from first principles. Newton’s laws are prerequisites to understanding everything that followed.
I just learned something new about the F-104 this morning.
When the flaps get past 30 degrees, bypass air from the turbine gets passed over them.
If you've ever flown the F-104 in simulator, when you go full flaps, it's a surprisingly tight turner.
Bernoulli is actually working overtime on the F-104.
I used to have the exact same opinion as you just a few hours ago.
I would link to the video but RUclips hates that.
@@AnthonyMartinez Okay, that's a bunch of deconstructionist gobbly gook.
"In thrust we trust" is one of the oldest memes in the book for a reason.
And yes, it's absolutely true, lots of things fly without considering Bernoulli if you got enough thrust.
*Stick and Rudder*
by Wolfgang Langewiesche
The best explanation I've ever read.
Move over Bernoulli.
Watch out for tractor beams !
In the early 1970s the Puerto Rican Air National Guard was flying 104s out of Marin International Airport. I was amused to see PRANG painted on the side of each 104.
In 1970 I was in a Navy F-4 squadron at Oceana NAS and we spent a week or so at Roosevelt Roads NAS. One day I wandered down to the runway just in time to see a PRANG F-104 buzz the runway right on the deck and hit afterburner and pull up into a vertical climb. It was very impressive, and the only time I ever saw a 104 in the air. Apparently this was a favorite activity of fighter pilots because I saw Air Force F-106s do the same thing at Oceana. Another great plane, the 106.
I wonder if the term was lost on them? As I would have found that a crack-up as well.
A saying in Germany back in the day was if you wanted an F-104, buy an acre of land and sooner or later you'd have one. The crash rate was high.
German pilot skills were bad.
@@flexairz You had to be ahead of the F-104, a demanding aircraft to fly. They also used it for low altitude ground attack.
@@flexairz Not really at all, the German version was used as fighter bomber and flew with a very high wingload, which was a political decision (coming with corruption), technical problems happened because licence built Starfighters were not assambled with the right tools (hydraulic problems, flaps moved assymetric), maintenance crews were trained only for a short time period, the Starfighters had not shelters in the beginning and were affected by the rainy weather in Germany, pilots had also only little time to learn to fly the 104 in the USA and there was a big gap in performace of the fighters the German Air Force had before. After the inspector of the German Air Force was replaced by Johannes Steinhoff, the infrastructure around the 104 became better and the crash rate was similar to other fighters of this time.
@@flexairzNot true at all. Educate yourself then come back and try again
12:12 Love it how he anticipates that some aviation junkies like us will jump to mention it in the comments that other aircraft that have BLC or similar tend to do the roll or such if cut to to idle abruptly, e.g. Mig-21 😜
LOVE "The Zipper". Will never forget being a Lieutenant at Whiteman AFB (ICBMs), coming off alert one morning in 1985, and seeing a NASA F-104 refueling on the ramp. I diverted to the flightline, and noticed the pilot-- Rogers Smith. He was gracious enough to let my crew partner and I go out ot the airplane and gawk. Will never forget it.
Rogers Smith is a cool guy, but you wouldn't hear it from him!
Any idea what caused the right roleing tendance? I though that jets did not have a torquing effect like plains like the P51 or the F4U.
Abby who? Abby-Normal!
Starfighters, Inc. (based at KSC) offers dual training in the -104 up to and including the type rating. I did some research a couple of years ago when I briefly toyed with the idea of getting the rating, but was unable to justify the $100K+ cost just to have it on my certificate. Airworthy -104s do occasionally change hands, though it would make a less-than-ideal personal toy. Maintenance, fuel consumption, proficiency flying, etc. would all add up in a hurry, to say the least.
I've been enjoying your channel for awhile; thanks for another interesting video.
Starfighter Inc in FL operates F-104's and offers rides.
Sometime in the spring of '69, while upgrading in the F-100 at Luke AFB, I taxied to the runway and held short, observing what appeared to be an F-i04 2-ship arriving for a formation landing. It turned out that one airplane was on a straight-in and the other had flown an overhead pattern ending up slightly above and slightly behind the straight-in. Neither was aware of the other and they collided pretty much in front of me in the flare. The first airplane bounced due to the impact and stayed on the runway. The second airplane pitched up and the J-79 shrieked as the pilot started a go-around. During this whole event there was radio silence. Finally, the pilot going around came on the radio and I recall his words as "Well, it looks like this son-of-a-bitch is going to fly but I will need a chase". He needed a chase because he has lost the sleek nose cone and with it the pitot tube. Therre was just a bunch of electronic gear in front of the firewall as they came in to land but all got on the ground in one piece. Probably needed a change of flight suits.
The numbers are very interesting. In the Grumman AA5A I rotate at 59kts and landing pattern is 70 kts or a little less. LOL
My grandfather, Vic Horton, flew the NASA F-104s out of Edwards back in the day. One time, him and Bill Dana (X-15 pilot) buzzed his hometown, Coalinga, in one of the two-seaters at 6 a.m.. The famous "Starfighter howl" woke the whole town up, LOL.
For the F-104, looks like they built the engine first then the airframe. Our country made some incredible fighters in the 50's .Just amazing.
Bob Gilliland- the first person to fly the SR-71
I love the 'missile with a man in it'. Ya get to wear SPURS!
Fun fact: The Italian Air Force raced one of their F-104s against a few different F1 cars in the early '80s (I think it was over a standing kilometre, or about 0.62 miles). After losing to the jet, Gilles Villeneuve (Canadian driver for Ferrari at the time) had his mechanics remove the rear wing from his car to cut some drag, which definitely improved his top speed, but at the cost of a bit of high speed stability.
"keep your hand on the flap [control]"... that is a good tip... for the next time I am flying a F-104
I do it all the time it really helps
I did a narration of High Flight to the backdrop of the F104 that was used to sign off TV as a member of Footprints of Freedom at at BYU in the early 70’s.
High Flight Also played in the afternoon to fill time after the 3pm movie in the 60's. Loved it then and love it now. An All-Time Fav.
I knew the distinctive howl of the CF-104 from a stint at Lahr, Germany, as one of its air defence gunners. Our 6-gun troop of 40mm Boffins was deployed along the active and when the Starfighters scrambled, it was a good idea to have your hearing protection on.
Dec 1984, I was standing on the Flightline at Castle AFB in front of a B-52 during an exercise, when I heard this interesting howl zipping down the runway a hundred feet or so off the deck......... it was a single seat NASA marked F-104. Seeing that made my freaking day. I honestly never thought I'd see one in the air, at least in the States.
Learned a lot about BLC working on Navy F-4J's on the deck of the USS Ranger in the mid 70's. If one taxied past you with the wings folded and you didn't duck you'd swear somebody punched you in the back of the head. If they came up on power, like say making a 90* pivot the BLC stream would knock you off or feet.
Great story about the F-104. I have always liked it. It smoked like hell - must have been that single J-79. It was basically a pilot sitting on a powerful engine. I also liked the fact that it was a t-tailed supersonic aircraft, which there weren't many. Wasn't the other one just he F-101 Voodoo?
I have a flight simulator MSFS and this aircraft and in VR every thing is simulated. Land with 80% power 180 kts chop the throttle before touch down and drop like a brick.
This aircraft was also very difficult to go super sonic with a certain technique that's also stimulated.
My father was a fighter pilot also - I grew up in various air bases housing waking up for school under the thundering howling of the J79 of the early morning squadron's sorties and returned at noon under the J79 whistling when they were landing ....
Captain, I remember that the German Luftwaffe called the F-104 the widow maker. True, or am I remembering another type?
You are correct!
I saw (and heard…!) the 104’s overhead as a kid in the early 70’s. Also got to really ‘inspect’ one several times at a museum, before they sort of fenced it in. Those wings…
These days, I haven’t even dared to “fly” it in the MSFS flight sim - but may give it a crack after Ron’s review here of its expected configuration and limits.
As always, thanks for sharing your stories on the 104…!
The F-104 is my favorite aircraft to fly in MSFS. It underperforms compared to the specs, but its still a lot of fun, Cramming it onto the runway at St Barts is a great challenge. Next I need to try Courchevel. Pretty sure Lukla is out of reach
The story goes NF104 by the TPS lacks RCS thrusters. The reason for lack of the thrusters was because they are not on the aircraft anymore. In 1978 Darryl Greenamyer somehow convinced the powers that be at Edwards to “loan” him the nose and wingtips off of the NF-104 on display there with the promise that they would be returned unharmed. He was allowed to remove them and had installed them on his airplane when he was forced to eject from his aircraft and the plane was destroyed.
I also fly a NASA TF-104, with 1 m length, from the outside! 🙂Great video, thanks!
You had some great flying opportunities
North American had the X-15 parked on the south side of LAX in 1959 and I remember seeing it as a kid as we landed on a flight from Stapleton on a Continental 707 with the golden tail. Those were the days.
I am not a pilot. I do however remember a Space Shuttle pilot being asked what it was like to land the Shuttle. His response, "It's like flying a brick."
Looks like a brick outhouse too.
Great story. Sounds like the F-104 was in a league of its own. Those are some impressive operating parameter numbers.
They are!
Love the "Young Frankenstein" ref at 4:30
Lol another little thing there... the airplane will roll uncontrollably 😎
Today's pilots are great, but it was a different breed back then. Really had to stay on top of the plane mentality and physically. Awesome content as usual.
What was the min runway for the F104. Did you ever share a Beemans with Chuck. Would love to hear some Yeager stories.
.
It seemed like a steam locomotive coming very Fast and very low ...lots of Smoke !
I was nineteen , 2lt. , Webb AFB ...hot and bored at the RSU ...
I was intrigued , but didn't want to ask Stupid questions ( Student Pilots mantra's ). Then I saw the T tail , the landing gear and was happy as hell !!!
This was my Favorite Fighter with the Saab Viggen second place ...what an amazing beast this F 104 was ! , it passed us like a silver lightning !
The T 37s looked like little toads chugging along.
Happy Times as a young 2lt .
That 104 is still one of the most aesthetically beautiful fighter jets ever made. Also, absolutely love the aerobatic biplane, family twin and I really love that burgundy stingray. Good for you bro! You earned it.
Thanks!
A very unforgiving machine! No wonder the German air force lost so many. But I would love to have experienced it.
High speed low level level work. Not the mission Kelly Johnson intended for the Starfighter. An A-4 or A-7 instead should have had that job
I like this kinda info. This is aviation geek level stuff !
When i got to south base in 88 nasa was still flying their 104's. Great insight and info on this bird. And it is the angriest sounding jet ever. When you herd it you knew whst it was. Takeoff...wait 20 mins and it was back in the pattern howling and growling . Love it.
Great presentation....The F104 and English Electric Lightning are my favourite planes....Thank you...Roger....Pembrokeshire..
Very interesting video which awakened some nice memories, thanks! Re. the BLC system, when you pulled the power back you'd fall out of the sky only if the flow was interrupted asymmetrically. The plane would roll abruptly to the side of the failed system and if you were close to the ground that'd be it. With some experience and caution one could land with LAND flaps and thrust at idle. Not saying it was the smart thing to do but, being young and "immortal", it was hard not to try. The power reduction had to be really slow though.
I did land with idle thrust and full flaps when doing the simulated shuttle approaches which I discuss in another video.
Great stories! Thanks for sharing. I had the honour of knowing a retired RCAF test/factory acceptance pilot who successfully accomplished two surprise! 'deadstick' landings during his career in the F104. He also had many other fascinating memories of his test pilot days. Obviously, that kind of flying represents a pinnacle of accomplishment within our profession. Respect!
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you! The F104 just looks bad ass. And you’re right about the sound of those engines, love the howl.
I have heard the 104 howl in so many movies. Star Wars being one. Nothing looks or sounds like this airplane. It is truly a classic.
They say the A-10 was built around the gun, whereas the 104 seems to have built around the J79.
I think you are correct on both!
One of my Dad's best friends was in the RCAF, eventually becoming a Maj. General, and flew CF-104s among many others types. A very early memory of mine, probably when I was 4 or 5, was standing out in the yard and having a Starfighter pass right over me at about 500 feet and 500 knots. I wish so much someone had been able to take a picture of my face when that happened, because I'm sure my eyes were the size of dinner plates! 😂 I don't remember anyone telling me who it was that flew over, but it only makes sense that it was my Dad's friend. He flew right over our town, which they typically avoided when flying low level. I'm sure he had called ahead to let some folks know that they'd see him, and I sure as hell did!! A few years later, the very first model aircraft I built was an F-104, such was the impact of that moment in 1969 or 1970!
Thank you for the F-104 stories. It's my favorite aircraft. That amazing thin, tiny wing. Spent hours as close as I could get in the museums at Boeing Field and Air & Space Museum in DC.
Kelly Johnson designed interceptor. The F104 is one of my all time favorite USAF aircraft. Thanks for sharing.
"Kelly Johnson designed interceptor."
False. It was designed as a lightweight fighter but used as an interceptor because of delays with the F-102/106.
@@smark1180The F-104 was designed by Kelly Johnson after he took a trip to Korea to talk with fighter pilots about what they needed to beat the Migs. Two words kept coming up. Higher, faster. Kelly made it go higher and faster. The F-104 was the first aircraft to simultaneously hold the FIA records for airspeed and altitude.
@@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus Why are you replying with that to me? @Supercruze is the mistaken one.
@@smark1180 No, you're the one I meant to reply to.
@@fantabuloussnuffaluffagus Why? I understand that the F-1404 was designed as a fighter and not an interceptor.
The German Air Force lost many pilots on the F-104.
Hi there! My name is Official, and I'm here to hear some digressions. :)
Hello there!
Steely eyed missile man.
Is this your idea of fun Mav?
I get the impression this was a jet that lived on its engine, no glide ratio to speak of, and watch that fuel.
pretty close!
“Missile with a Man in it“
The Last Starfighter
"Abi-normal"...Young Frankenstein>..LMAO GOT IT!
Almost T shirt time! Keep us informed Ron. Merch makes the world go round. 🙂
Hope to get them in today! Have an order I need to fill already.
So I listened to everything you said about flying a visual approach.in the F104. I can't imagine flying an instrument approach with weather/gusts/ low minimums. I'm thinking "no thank you".
Great looking planes by great minds back then! 😎
Very interesting and educative.
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks for this video, first hand experience of the 104 is not that common any more. It’s always amusing/interesting/comforting to know that NASA keeps birds in the air which otherwise would be parked in Nevada!
You did mention Germany in passing, if you are prepared to comment I would be interested in your views on the high number of loss3s they had with this plane?
Hello Ron. My dad (Lt. Col. Ed Gund) was a zipper IP at Luke AFB in the 60's. He absolutely loved the AC. The 104 and the F-86 were his favorite AC.
Have to avoid those "very fatal" situations. Much more dangerous than merely normal fatal situations.
What a sexy, sexy airplane! Nothing better than a century series fighter! Great video. Thank you.
The wingspan is 21 feet. And the Geebee R1 wingspan is 25 feet. The area is different but that always amazed me.
Thanks. I’m not sure if I missed it, but it would have been cool if you mentioned how the BLC was designed and how the bleed air for this was ducted.
Very interesting. Thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it
I certainly remember the distinctive sound of the F-104 flown by the Luftwaffe in the early 70’s coming into RAF Upper Heyford where I was Air Force Crash-Fire-Rescue. We had several fire calls for hot brakes on their a/c during that time.
My first posting in the RCAF was in Cold Lake in 91. I was talking 104s with one of the guys at AETE (Aerospace Engineering Test Establishment) and he showed me some drawings that were done up in the early 80s to fit a new GE 404 engine into one of the Starfighters. It required some ballast in the tail due to weight differences, but basically was a solid plan. The 404 is smaller and lighter than the J-79 by a huge margin. Apparently Ottawa got wind of it and shut that idea down in a hurry. I think they were afraid of what it would be capable of- same thrust, half the weight, and almost half the fuel consumption... would have been a sight to see.
Awesome. Thanks for sharing.
I completed some training with a fella who flew these in Germany. The highest altitude they flew was around 300 agl.
Best training I ever had.
I'm pretty sure the Red Barron didn't have a problem extending the heat, it was that the left main wouldn't lock. I've read he attempted several touch and gos to test whether the gear was safe before finally admitting defeat and punching out
Bill Dana? The chief astronaut of United States Interplanetary?
Was stationed at Homestead AFB in 69, saw the last 8 months of the F 104 were there, they were parked outside the hanger I worked in F 4E engine shop, all the F 104s had j 79-19 engines. There engine shop was part of our hanger
My favorite jet fighter. I saw many airshows in Canada with our CF-104's flying demonstrations. The sexiest jet fighter ever penned. Plus the howling sound was always memorable.
🥰🥰🥰The Starfighter. 🥰🥰🥰
Thanks for your info on flying this fantastic jet fighter.😎👍
Thank you for posting : )
My pleasure!
Those rates of descent and air speeds are just kinda horrifying.
Speed is life.
NASA - No taxpayer dollar left unwasted
What's that puddle between the main wheels?
small fuel leak.
That's a good question. I've yet to see a F-104 that doesn't have a puddle under the middle of the jet. I did see a Starfighters jet with a bucket of hydraulic fluid under it after/before flying.
How about analyzing Air France 447 and/or Asiana 214 in San Francisco?
ruclips.net/video/w6S5q-uFz-g/видео.html
Thanks, Ron.
Is there any way for a pilot to tell the difference between stall buffet and high speed buffet?
Thanks!
Hey Ron, 325 is a bit over the 250 speed limit below 10,000 !!!!! :)
Speed limit is usurped by flight manual requirements. True for many military aircraft and others such as the B-747.
Fighters have a waiver for that.
Turning Flying Officers into Guidance Officers.
Did you ever meet Joe Engle? Also can you make a video about the 727 flap/slat circuit breaker trick?
Have met Joe Engle. Did a video on TWA 841.
@@ronrogers I must’ve missed the 841 video. I’ll check it out.
Great Plane and very very fast like a rocket
Could you explain the BLC system? I’ve ever heard of it and can’t find anything about it on RUclips for the 104 or the 4.
Thank you, Ron.
Let me see if I can upload some -1 descriptions.
It would be good to explain that NASA continued to fly F-104s at Edwards well into the 1990s. I dont remember which got retired first, the F-104 or the SR-71, but both around the same time. There used to be one prominently displayed at the Air Force Academy right by the chapel wall. But that got bounced to be replaced by an F-15. That happened maybe in the mid-90s as well.
I know the F-104s were gone by '98. That's when I flew the NASA F-18. But I think the SR-71s were still around.
I absolutely love your channel. Thanks for everything you've given us.
Well, everything short of slamming the Vark as a disaster. Heh.
Would love to hear your thoughts on MH370, thanks Ron!
Noted!
Ron is it true that the F-104 would rudder roll in the opposite direction?
If your handle isn’t Buck its a damn shame.
Ron, do you know why the F-104 has such a horrible public standing in Germany. How did your German colleagues view the F-104?
It got a bad reputation with the German Air Force. Any aircraft will kill you. The 104 was just a bit less forgiving than most.
What is puddle??
Fuel
RR -> It can be very fatal
Considering the high accident rate, and number of fatal accidents, suffered by the West German air force would you say the F104 was just too difficult to fly?
Difficult to fly is a relative term. If you've only flown a C-150, yes. But other high performance aircraft experience and it is ok.
@@ronrogers As a very very ex Piper PA-28 pilot anything more demanding than that aircraft would have got me into a whole lot of trouble very quickly😂 And thanks for the reply😀
Ron, the last flyable civilian 104 i saw was at Ellington Field, Houston. Beautiful light blue and white paint scheme in ‘87. Spotted it in a hangar there and unfortunately didn’t get to see it airborne.
Are you sure this car can reach 220 mph or 350 km/h ? Seems a bit fast for a supercar.
That is supposedly the top limit. Don't intend to test it!
With the horsepower and gearing that Corvette is probably capable of those speeds under the right conditions. I thought they were ZL1's not Z06's but I'm definitely no 'vette expert and I'm sure Ron knows his own car, but I digress...
The F-104 is not a power limited aircraft; it's limitations lie in the air frame. 40 lbs per g! Wow. Astounding to think the airplane can do 6 gs. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:F-104A_flight_envelope.jpg