I just wanted to say this before I watched the video. If I were to say I was anything it would be atheis. I don't consider myself a believer or disbeliever in any religion. With that said I absolutely love what you're doing. I feel like I've learned so much just in the few videos that I've watched of yours. I can't wait to see where this takes me. Maybe you'll make me a believer who knows. I'm just glad that we have humans like you that exist on our planet. Thank you for being open-minded and most importantly thank you for opening up so many minds out there especially the youth. I'm definitely going to watch a ton of your videos in a row 🤣♥️💪
Atheists, christians, so called jews, muslims. Yea all peoples of the earth, hear the Word of the Lord, spoken to us, THIS last generation! More of these Letters found at the bottom of this comment; "Thus says The Lord: Peoples of the earth, do you know Me? Do you really know who I am? I am Elohim. YAHUSHUA-YAHUWAH is My name, both God and Savior. For in The Son does the fullness of The Father dwell.[1] Yet you of this earth have not known Me! Behold, I have spoken to you plainly, using few figures of speech, yet you do not know Me! From the beginning, even to this day, I have declared My glory through all My servants, the prophets, and still you refuse to embrace Me as I truly am! Behold, the peoples of the earth pollute My name, and the nations take counsel together to strike Me from remembrance! Therefore, ALL shall come to know Me in My anger! Every tribe, tongue, and people shall behold My hand against the nations, until all those who blaspheme are bowed down, until every jaw is clamped shut and every tongue cleaves to the roof of the mouth! For I am come out of My sanctuary, to astound the nations, to judge and to pour out judgment, to repay and take vengeance upon My enemies, to make an end! Yet I ask you, who among the nations fears Me? Who among this modern generation, among all these multitudes of perverse and vile people, revere My name? Who, among this great multitude, trembles in fear at the coming of The Lord?! And who among the mighty shall be able to stand, when the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven?! Therefore repent, and establish My way before Me, says The Lord God, and I shall also establish you! For I am The Lord, and I shall establish justice in all the earth! Why, O peoples of the earth, do you stand proud? Why do you set your faces like stone, and resolve in your hearts to fight against Me? Behold, I have set My face against YOU, and resolve in My heart to abase you, until the pride of man is bowed down and the arrogance of man is utterly humiliated, as it is written! Be bowed down therefore, O most wicked generation! Humble yourselves and repent, and seek now The Righteousness of The Lord, that you may live and not die! Peoples of the earth, how long shall you court death and desire abomination?! Your hearts are full of adultery; you cease not from lying down with sin! Behold, you have joined yourselves to the grave and With death you have made your agreement![2]... Foolish people, see now the Word of The Lord, Open your ears and listen to the voice of The Lord your God, And establish My way before Me, that you may live and not die... For there is no other God besides Me; A just God and a Savior, there is none besides Me[3]... Says The Lord." ~ "Peoples of the earth, hear the Word of The Lord your God: You are lost, drowning in a deep sea of transgression, sinking in the ever-shifting sands of religion and science. You are stuck in the mire of your iniquities, slowly suffocating, as the fruit of your labor comes full circle to take away your life. For by your own works have you destroyed the garden, on account of your greed have you caused much suffering and death, bringing calamity upon your own heads! Thus because of your great iniquity I have drawn back My hand, and for the multitude of your transgressions the judgment of God has come upon you. Dead generation, foolish children, evil surrounds you on every side! Darkness closes in, yet you remain unmoved! Detestable birds gather and predators come forth to stalk you as prey, yet you see no cause for alarm! Therefore as I live, says The Lord, My flock has become the prey and My children have made themselves meet for the slaughter! For the peoples of the earth have forsaken Me, days without end; they have altogether gone astray! My created ones have removed themselves far from Me, and My own beloved have not returned to Me, but do always seek their own way! And of the shepherds, they did not go out to search for My flock, but have fed themselves! They did not feed My flock, BUT HAVE FED THEMSELVES! Therefore hear the Word of The Lord, all you self-appointed shepherds, and give ear, all you wayward flocks, for you have surely broken the yoke and burst the bonds, you have surely forsaken The Lord your God; for thus says The Lord: I am against you! Your houses are fallen, and the foundations upon which you have built yourselves up crumble beneath your feet! All is dust and ashes, rubble piled up in heaps! Oh what a bitter thing this is, unending sadness, anguish and pain; My own beloved have departed from Me, My own children have gone far astray! I gave My Son for them, that they may live and not die, I laid Myself upon the altar, yet they want no part with Me as I truly am! Thus they choose death, and with the grave they have made their agreement. Therefore, thus says The Lord: Tremble, O heavens! Shake, O earth! Let the seas rage and the mountains crumble before the coming of The Lord! Let the whole earth be bowed down before The Holy One of Israel, for My Kingdom comes!... Behold, The Almighty is coming down to you, yes, The Son who wears the full raiment of The Father. For in Him alone does the fullness of God dwell. Thus HE shall pluck you from the fire, HE shall scourge the nations with the Word of His power, and strike the wicked with the sword of His mouth. Yes, HE shall tread the grapes in the winepress of the wrath of My fury, wiping the wicked from existence, destroying all things which sicken His sheep and cause His flocks to go astray; behold, He shall utterly destroy all that offends! My people, The Mashiach is your help and your shield; YahuShua, whom you call Jesus and Christ, Is The Rock of your Salvation, The One who is and was and is to come; For The Father and The Son are One... Therefore, embrace Me in My Mercy, And receive of Me in My Great Love. Thus says The Lord, your Redeemer: I am indeed coming down to shake the heavens and the earth, to move all from its place; to bring forth that which was hidden and to reveal that which was misplaced;[1] to open that which was shut and to shut that which was opened. Therefore prepare, My people, for the time has come; yes, today is the day of salvation! Go forth, beloved ones, and set all these crooked paths straight; regain the line, prepare and watch. For the leaves of the fig tree are upon its branches; summer is near![2] Again I say, watch. For The One who ascended is about to descend... And lo, I am come, in the volume of the Book it is written of Me, to accomplish The Father’s will.[3] For I have heard the cries of the oppressed and the groaning of the poor and the needy, I know the plight of the fatherless and the widow. I have tasted their tears, and the heart of the faithful is not hidden from Me. Therefore watch[4] and also listen, and be spared, for I am about to give a shout.[5] For all that is written in the Book of The Lord, both the former and the latter, comes to pass through Me. Take heed therefore, for assuredly I say to you, it shall in no wise come to pass as a mere metaphor or as a parable conceived of by men. For the time of arrogant assumptions and prideful assertions is over, the time of corrupt knowledge and polluted sermons is at an end. Behold, The Power from on high is coming Forth to reap and to judge the nations, To sound the trumpet in the four corners, To cause the name of The Lord To resound in all the earth... Bow before The King, therefore; Humble yourselves before The Holy One of Israel... Lay yourselves upon the altar and be broken Atop The Stone, and it shall bear you up; Yet stand defiant, and you shall be crushed Beneath the weight of The Mountain[6]... For I do not change, says The Lord." ~ "Lo, multitudes of idols fill every corner! Both the believer and unbeliever bow down together and serve their gods! ALL nations worship the works of their own hands, for they have placed their own creations and the love of their own ideas above their Creator! False deities abound, while science and corrupt religion rule over them! Mere theories become truth and doctrine, and lawlessness is widely accepted! And behold, the love of money has become their new taskmaster, and materialism their god! Sins of every kind imaginable flow through every land! Yea, as a mighty river it flows into every nation, Reaching unto new heights in wickedness as the walls Are broken down, overtopped by these quickly rising waters! The levees are eroded from beneath, they are Undermined continually, widening the breach!... Behold, a great flood of sin has ensued, A terrible deluge covers the face of the whole earth, And still the fear of The Lord is all but forgotten!... THUS THE CUP OF THE WRATH OF MY FURY IS COME TO THE FULL! Behold, My Kingdom comes, and My will shall be done on earth as in Heaven. Even as I had purposed it from the beginning, so shall it be done to this generation. For My throne is set high above the highest heavens, and the earth is but a footstool set beneath My feet. FOR I AM THE LORD! YAHUWAH IS MY NAME! Therefore, let the enemies of The Lord be gathered!" ~ "Behold, the dark clouds gather, the lightning flashes on the horizon, yet no one seeks shelter, not one abides in safety, nor does the sound of thunder make them afraid. For they are a foolish people, a most arrogant generation, a corrupt people heavy-laden with sin; a people who make many lofty assertions without knowledge, a wholly ignorant people who reject the knowledge of God, yet embrace every corrupt theory created by men of science, a people who know not their right hand from their left! Says The Lord."
Apologies for my lack knowledge. Agnostic, not atheist. Learn something new everyday. Honestly, not a fan of labels either way. I live my life by most of the commandments. Not because God or anyone else wants me to. I just think the commandments are a great way to live your life. I've shared this video so many times it's crazy 😂. Keep those great videos coming! 😁♥️
I find the most boring thing about this conversation was this mandatory so often seen "push back" on atheism when christians and atheists talk together. Tired of that position. I think Coleman Hughes was excellent in his reply and kept the status of the whole brilliant. I am glad the rest of the show was interesting.
@@satutaiminmaki905 What do you mean? I mean he is a christian so a challenge of what the interviewee is a necessity. Btw, what does he kept the status of the whole brilliant mean?
I want the whole world to see this. So much respect for you both that I don’t have words to adequately express it. Thank you for having the conversation and for sharing it with all of us.
Thank You Sean! I love listening to Coleman because he pursues the truth and when he finds it, shares it with the same grace and dignity that you model. You've answered the call and cracked the door open for Coleman to the most important Truth and as he continues I'm sure he'll find Him and be the calming, but powerful voice
Coleman is a superb and honest thinker. His thoughts are not poisoned by any political agenda, group identity or religion-like convictions. We need more people like him in important positions in society.
You guys modeled such a great way to interview and discuss difficult topics! Mr McDowell you and had great questions, summarized and said great statements and you really let Mr Hughes actually discuss his opinions and beliefs without interruption or aggressive argument back after you had asked him to answer the question. Mr Hughes you did an excellent job as well giving intelligent logical answers in a calm manner and in a brave and kind way. I should watch more of these types of videos so I can practice sharing my beliefs and opinions in a way that is more like this and allows people to listen instead of getting upset by the way that I say things. Thanks again Mr McDowell and Mr Hughes for modeling this for us!
I also have to commend Sean on his restraint and graciousness as a good listener. I’m sure there were more than a few times when he felt like he could’ve pushed back on some of Coleman’s statements but held back, showing respect to his guest. Great job Sean.
" Why there is something rather than nothing? I have no idea. " I just love the honesty of this guy. So many Christians feel they have to give an answer to every question. It is not a sin to say I don't know.
@@hhstark8663 what on earth is "quantum cosmology"? Sounds like a totality of life... Then what's the relevance of that to the question posed: why is there something instead of nothing? The question is a summary of why the world and or life exists!! Please educate an urchin from New Brighton!
@@mikekulati7526 No experiment could support the hypothesis 'There is nothing'. There is something because "nothing" is just a concept. It doesnt exist. As for why the world and life exists, you would have to specify what kind of "why" you want answered. There is the "why" as in how it happened (big bang, gravitational energy (general theory of relativity), stellar nucleosynthesis, abiogenesis), or "why" as in is there any ultimate reason for their existence? As for Quantum cosmology, it is the attempt in theoretical physics to develop a quantum theory of the Universe. The field is quite extensive, but wikipedia has an article to help you get a laymans gist of what it entails.
As usual, civility, grace and clarity. This is what the world needs to see, Civil Conversation is a casualty of cancel culture. Everyone is guarded, defensive and prefer to live in a us vs them mentality instead of unity in the midst of diversity.
Coleman is great. Some of the most intelligent discussions on race I've encountered. His podcast covers a really broad range of interesting topics though. I try to listen to everything he posts.
This is a fabulous conversation. So many of us need to listen to it. I hope some (a lot) of Sean’s listeners start listening to Coleman. He has so many relevant things to say that Christians need to hear.
Great discussion. The origin of conscience, being aware, I can see how that would give anyone pause. God bless Sean, and I pray the seeds planted today in Huges will bring him to the beautiful gospel.
What an excellent video! So great to see Coleman on your show and the quality conversation that you had. I first encountered Coleman during the pandemic, and really enjoy his level-headedness. It's doubly cool that you two teamed up for a great conversation! Well done!
But boy, I never expected this wonderful collab between coleman and Sean and I'm so grateful for it. I would love to see more Christian, Atheist conversation over the state of pressing socio-cultural issues. It adds more flesh to their beliefs.
What a helpful & insightful discussion. You both were great role models on how to have a civil, kind, & respectful conversation regarding difficult life, social, & worldly issues, from different perspectives. Well done by you both. I look forward to future conversations. A great reminder to me on how to engage with others who don't share my beliefs, in love!
Posting in the comments section because the live chat does not seem to be very civil. Thanks for coming on the channel Mr. Hughes. You’ve now gained another listener to your podcast. I find you to be a very thoughtful and well spoken thinker, and I appreciate that.
Great conversation! Both intelligent, thoughtful, articulate and gracious interlocutors. A wonderful example of productive discourse, especially helpful for those of us who are thinking through these same things and lucky enough to listen in. Thank you!
I'm married to someone of opposing political beliefs. I like it. I feel a tension in the opinions but in contrast I enjoy extending a hand of understanding and being peaceful and present with what matters to the other person. There's something beautiful about being so close to someone with different beliefs yet at peace, ready to have empathy for what they experience. It's really satisfying to me for some reason.
Sean, I’m a huge fan and love the depth and level of civility throughout this conversation with Coleman. It would be so interesting to have Coleman interview you in a similar format!
Great conversation Sean. It really is amazing how similar the talking points are across the majority of skeptics. Even relatively well thought out ones like Coleman.
I loved Coleman’s wisdom regarding how to break the cycle of a broken culture. Coming from the inside to bring change is exactly what Jesus did for us. He became human though he was God. And even when he did this for the whole world, he also does this for each one of us by dwelling in us at our invitation. Now I can not only see the outside example of righteousness, but I am also empowered to live this life by faith relying on his indwelling Spirit.
I really really appreciate these 2 gentlemen. It’s refreshing to see a good model for how to interact with someone who doesn’t share your exact belief system. Although it probably helps that they are both extraordinarily intelligent and thoughtful in how they express themselves, removing a lot of potential confusion that could otherwise easily muddy their conversation. So concise! 😊
*Dr. Sean McDowell* I salute you. You've asked a number of incredibly interesting questions which have drawn out of *Coleman Hughes* some deeply absorbing comprehensive and fundamental summative answers regarding his thinking. Thank you, Sir. (What happened to Coleman's sound? It's usually impeccable.)
Sean we need more like you. I think the reason many Christians can’t listen to outsiders is because they’re so worried about outsiders going to hell they get too emotional to even consider what the outsiders have to say or where they’re coming from. You inspire me a lot and I think you are a great example on how we can connect with outsiders and love them and still keep our faith in God thank you so much. Love you both ❤
I was hesitant to listen to this partly because (admittedly) I like to listen to people I mostly agree with, but also because I don't like the mean arguing that goes on everywhere today. However, this was refreshing, honest, respectful and helped me to remember that people have opinions that mean something deeply to them that I can relate with. Not because they are stupid. Great talk Sean!
I get the feeling that Coleman is a good guy and seems intellectually honest. But I also get the feeling that he hasn’t spent a lot of time thinking about the God question, coming out of the background he did and being affirmed by atheist popularizers. More conversations like this might cause him to change his mind or at least think more deeply about the subject, maybe not. But he does say he appreciates the quality of being willing to change one’s mind. I admire him for that.
I take his word that he studied philosophy so if I was a betting man I'd say he probably thought about the question a lot. What gave you the impression he hasn't spent a lot of time on the question?
@@calebsmith7179 Philosophy has different branches. There is philosophy of science, philosophy of politics, philosophy of mind, philosophy of language and philosophy of religion, to name a few. In Coleman´s case, he studied philosophy of ethics. One example of an atheist who was raised by marxist parents as well is Sy Garte, and he first found out that mechanism is false, and later found out that materialism is false and later found out deism is false and eventually after decades accepted Christianity. He outlines his journey is *"The works of his hands"* .
@@hhstark8663 Even with his particular study being the philosophy of ethics, it doesn't mean he hasn't deeply pondered life's big questions, and if someone has an interest in philosophy in general then they have probably given such questions deep thought. I just find it weird that people are assuming, based on pure speculation, that he must not have given such questions deeper thought.
@@calebsmith7179 Because he is still an atheist, silly man. Many Christians, like many atheists, just cannot understand why others do not see the truth and believe their arguments for their truth are just so obvious.
I really appreciate the way you give so much space to the guest Sean. You don't try to proselytise or brow beat which ultimately makes the show more engaging.
What is this ? Deep and fantastic. Love Sean McDowell, and now profoundly impressed by Coleman. I had heard of him and now I see what the buzz it about. What a mind. I'm always impressed by Sean's great learning and intelligence but his long form interviews are great, he has a gift. What a great show. Another great guest.
Sean showed patience and understanding. As a Christian I really appreciate what you are doing to enlighten people like me to understand opinions of others who may not agree with my world view . Thank you
Coleman, you are very good at explaining concepts that are difficult to talk about with class. I will check out your show! Sean, love the way you conduct your interviews. I didn't know your Dad had suffered so much as a child. The Lord has used him mightily.
Hughes is great. Got to give Sean props for having guests that share very few of his views (in particular religious views), save for crossing the floor on issues for the sake of civil discourse.
Thank you for this talk! As a person who has traveled around the world and stayed with people all over the world, and have witnessed and discussed with those people, the extreme racism that exists in their cultures, I 100% agree with Coleman's assessment of the US being the least racist nation in the world and at the forefront of addressing it. It's so very rare for anyone to point this out so I so appreciate it!
Thank you for an excellent conversation. I really enjoyed what Coleman had to say and agree with many of the points that he brought regarding issues of race. One thought I had for the first time was the use of the phrase "tribal instincts" as a basis of why racism is present in cultures across the world. I do understand the context of this phrase, and Coleman is not the originator of this idea, but I find it interesting that "tribal" is viewed as morally less evolved. When I meet people as a Native American, they sometimes don't understand what that actually means so I tell them that I'm "from a tribe". The idea of tribal instincts being less morally evolved can have really negative consequences for tribal people groups. Again, I don't believe at all that this was Coleman's intention, or was the focus of this particular conversation. But when we're discussing race and morality, I think it is so important to highlight that promoting a "moral evolution" does not always lead to moral actions. Taking the "tribal instincts" out of people will not always lead to moral goodness, as evidenced by the boarding schools and subsequent racism of taking the "tribal" out of Native youth. This is why, as a Christian, the only moral standard that I can turn to is outside of human moral standards.
@@NelemNaru I don't think I can convince anyone over a RUclips comment that the Bible does not condone these things. But what I would put forward to you are the words of Christ in Matthew 5:43-44 - You have heard that it was said 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. Anyone who reads the words in the Bible about how to treat other human beings cannot condone slavery, the mistreatment of women, etc. Anyone who picks and chooses scriptures out of context from the Old Testament to defend their actions do not know God. The Bible is a book that MUST be read in its entirety.
@@amandaf1626 *Slave:* _a person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them._ *Chattel slavery:* _Chattel slavery, also called traditional slavery, is so named because people are treated as the chattel (personal property) of the owner and are bought and sold as commodities, and passed onto children as inheritance._ The Bible talks about slavery a few times. Most of that is attributed to Yahweh himself. Sometimes it's argued that the ancient Hebrews only had permission to have Hebrew servants, but not slaves. These servants could not be made slaves by kidnapping them (Exodus 21:16). These servants were supposed to be freed after 7 years (Deuteronomy 15:12-18 and Exodus 21:2) so they weren't lifelong slaves. But there's something off with this retelling. In reference to freeing servants, the Bible says: Exodus 21:4 - _If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's and he shall go out alone._ So the children and women don't go free. The children are born slaves. More, they can be used as leverage to turn a male servant into a lifelong slave, continuing here: Exodus 21:5-6 - _But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever._ If a man doesn't want to leave his wife and children behind as slaves while he goes free, then he has to commit to lifelong servitude, being marked like cattle. The entire family would then be enslaved. But that hardly matters in determining God's support for Hebrew slavery, because of the next passage Exodus 21:7-11 - _When a man sells his daughter as a slave, _*_she shall not go out [free] as the male slaves do._*_ If she does not please her master, who has _*_designated her_*_ for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. If he _*_designates her_*_ for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. If he takes _*_another wife_*_ to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money._ Again, women don't go free. Women are being sold and assigned to husbands. They are taken as one of multiple wives (also of note, polygamy) after being purchased as servants. It's hard to see a distinction between this and sex slavery. It is sexual slavery. But, you might say God would never condone sex slavery. Then you have this to contend with: Numbers 31:18 - _Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him _*_keep alive for yourselves._* Clearly, these women are sexual property, taken by violence. Here are instructions for taking war captive women as wives: Deuteronomy 21:10-13 - _When you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God gives them into your hand and you take them captive, and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and you desire to take her to be your wife, and you bring her home to your house, she shall shave her head and pare her nails. And she shall take off the clothes in which she was captured and shall remain in your house and lament her father and her mother a full month. After that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife._ Then: Deuteronomy 21:14 - _But if you no longer delight in her, you shall let her go where she wants._ This does not sound like a proper wedding and divorce, even by ancient standards. This is sexual slavery. Keep in mind that Exodus 21 is immediately after the 10 Commandments. You can't throw one out without the other. Deuteronomy says over a dozen times that the laws are from God, and that obedience will be rewarded (by killing the neighboring people and giving the Israelites the land). If this hasn't convinced you, God gets more explicit. Most of the above only applies to Hebrew servants and slaves. Non-Hebrews, even those who have integrated into Israelite society, according to God himself, could simply be bought for life. Leviticus 25:44-46 - *_You may buy male and female slaves_*_ from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and _*_they may be your property._*_ You may bequeath them to your sons after you to _*_inherit as a possession forever._* *God said, "You may buy slaves* ...and they may be your property." By any definition, this is God condoning slavery. But maybe you'd think it's ok, because these people somehow chose to sell themselves (even though this is not implied at all). Then you have a problem because again, the child of a slave/servant is also inheritable property, and they obviously have no say. The next sentence: Leviticus 25:46 - *_You may make slaves of them,_*_ but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly._ So you _may_ make slaves out of foreigners and rule over foreigners ruthlessly? What _are_ the limits on how ruthlessly you can treat these slaves? Leviticus 19:20-22 - *_If a man sleeps with a female slave_*_ who is promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet _*_they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed._*_ The man, however, must bring a ram to the entrance to the tent of meeting for a guilt offering to the Lord. With the ram of the guilt offering the priest is to make _*_atonement_*_ for him before the Lord for the sin he has committed, and his sin will be _*_forgiven._* So having sex with/raping these women wasn't treated as a crime against another person, or deserving of the death penalty, or requiring marrying her (like would be required in the case of a free woman in Deuteronomy 22). A goat makes things right (which is only even necessary if another man had a claim to her). Leviticus 27:28-29 - _But no devoted thing that a man devotes to the Lord, of _*_anything that he has, whether man_*_ or beast, or of his inherited field, shall be sold or redeemed; every devoted thing is most holy to the Lord. No one devoted, who is to be devoted for destruction from mankind, shall be ransomed; he shall surely be _*_put to death._* Allows for slaves to be offered as blood sacrifices to Yahweh. "He shall surely be out to death," is the same phrase used in the death penalties in Leviticus. Yahweh accepted human possessions as blood sacrifices alongside birds and cattle. It's possible the following verses could apply to all slaves, but it's only in the context of Hebrews, probably leaving non-Hebrew slaves without even this minimal protection. Exodus 21:26-27 says that if you gouge their eye out, you have to set them free, but that isn't (really) a punishment. It certainly wouldn't be a punishment if we assume the person had a human right to freedom in the first place. Exodus 21:20-21 - _When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money._ So God says it's really bad to kill your servant or slave (quickly, anyway; I guess it's ok if it takes a few days). But anything short of that, there isn't a punishment. Why? Because according to God, that man, woman, or child is someone else's "money." That's slaver talk. So, Yahweh condones slavery. Ok, but maybe God changed his mind in the New Testament? No. Jesus didn't mention the topic, and the rest just has this to say: 1 Peter 2:18 - _Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust [or "harsh"]._ Commanding slaves to obey harsh masters with all respect: Colossians 3:22 - _Bondservants, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord._ Ephesians 6:5-8 - _Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free._ Comparing obeying a slave owner who instills fear and trembling with following Jesus. God rewards obedience to slave owners. One can assume then that disobedience to a master is ungodly. I'm sure many slave owners found this passage helpful. Ephesians 6:9 - _And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him._ This seems like acceptance of slavery as moral. At least it adds a new rule, though. You shouldn't threaten your slaves anymore. Even if you think not being allowed to threaten your slaves anymore makes it ok, it was well over a thousand years before he revised his commands. It says, "treat them the same way," but I suspect only one party in this relationship ever obeys, serves, or feels fear and trembling. *Not only does Yahweh in the Bible explicitly and consistently condone slavery, but it allows for a particularly awful kind of slavery. Yahweh regulated slavery, but in a very weak way that it remained chattel slavery.* A Christian cannot argue based on scripture alone, without demeaning God, that we should prohibit anyone from owning a slave today.
@@amandaf1626 You're the one cherry-picking verses. You have to look at the full context. When interpreting Biblical contradictions, specific commands override general commands. Jesus said nothing specifically against slavery, yet there are commands in the Old Testament that specifically allow for slavery, and nothing in the New Testament specifically overturns it.
@@NelemNaru I promise that I have read all of the verses in your list, but I noted you left out Philemon, in which Paul urges Philemon to not regard the runaway slave Onesimus as a slave to be punished, but as a brother in Christ (not just a brother, but a beloved brother within that verse). The question that we should be asking is why it looks like God is clearly condoning these things in one verse, and then has other verses that seem to speak of love and forgiveness and treating others kindly. You claim that Jesus never spoke against slavery . Well he never spoke against pedophilia but I don't consider that condoning that behavior. I highly recommend watching The Beat by Allen Parr "Does the Bible Support Slavery" on RUclips as a quick reference. I also recommend looking up The Slave Bible. www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/slave-bible-redacted-old-testament This was an edited version of the Bible with much of the Old Testament and New Testament missing. Why? To take out anything within the Bible that would invite slaves to want to be free or demand better treatment. The Bible does not command us to own slaves (note that modern Christians do not follow Old Testament law, why is that?) I don't have all of the answers to your list, and like I said, a RUclips comments section is an inneffective debating tool. But I do hope that you're open to asking yourself why people who read the Bible of all different cultural backgrounds do not arrive to the same conclusion you do. I hope you have a good day
I'll be honest with you my own wife Steel man's almost every opposing argument in our conversations lol. And I thank God that she does that. I know He is using her to help us both grow in understanding
"I know how easy it is to be wrong about something. I've been wrong so many times and I know it's not because you're an idiot .. " *Thank you!!!* 👏👏👏🤗 🔊 🔈
@@ethan4048 “I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”- Jesus of Nazareth, John 8:24
Love Coleman. I would love to hear Coleman dwell more on the is ought gap with regards to normative facts. He seems to have just accepted that 'suffering is bad' - similar to Sam Harris etc.
What a great interview. Such a fascinating and insightful young man. I’m unlikely to have stumbled across him unless you had interviewed him so thank you
Hitch wasn't given pause in the way you describe it. He had a profound awe of the numinous, but in the hundreds of debates and interviews with him I've watched and in all of his writings I've never come across him being compelled by the any argument for design on the grounds of so-called 'fine tuning' or anything else.
Subscribed Interesting. I’m a conservative Christian but I’ve been following Coleman Hughes for a while now. But I actually haven’t followed Sean McDowell until now, although I’ve known about you for several years.
I have reservations about Robin diAngelo's book, "White Fragility", but I'd be interested to hear what her response would be to Coleman's representation of her e.g. saying that we shouldn't cry in front of black people.
Wow. Right from the start... what a POWERFUL testimony and Personal AFFIRMATION of the POSITIVE IMPACT having both a Mom and a Dad PRESENT in the growing-up lives of children. Before even getting into things, THAT made my heart sing. This also reminds me how RARE it has become to engage with people who are willing to THINK deeply, ANALYZE carefully, and ENGAGE RESPECTFULLY. Bravo!! THANK YOU BOTH, so much!!!
100% agree with fellow Coleman about the unite states being the less discriminatory country in the world. Immigrating from Peru where I was discriminated for everything, last name, district I live, clothes, etc…
You just earned yourself an atheist subscriber. Great conversation, I am always looking for more interactions like these that come from a starting point of mutual respect and an attempt to understand another point of view.
I'm subbed to Coleman, because he's an intelligent, open minded person who disagrees with me. I think I can always learn something from him. I'm not black obviously, but I really object to the idea that going to an IVY league uni means you have no actual oppression. I'm trans and have several trans friends and in my circle at least it's a minority of trans people who have NOT had at least one parent threaten to disown them if they transitioned. None of us go to IVY league uni but we were all pretty privileged economically. None of us actually were disowned, but the threat itself is pretty damaging.
That would be intriguing. Lindsey's book on atheism is one of the most powerful post-New Atheist ones out there, totally reframing the God debate as a postmortem triviality.
I have begun pondering why we use the term race in the way we do. I know why in times past mankind did. Enslavement and control; to divide mankind. But since we are all of the same human race, when we speak of racism, what are we really saying?? People from different religions? Languages? Countries? Ethnicities? Different levels of melanin?? Still the same human race. Why do we continue to keep track of human's melanin at all? Eg, on the American census, or demographics. I understand for some medical reasons (and that's private) but aside from that, aren't we creating division by constantly labeling ourselves, black, brown or white?? None of us are "melanin blind" but our melanin isn't who we are.
"God’s given you great strength and meekness" Depending on the translation, the biblical meaning of the concepts "strength" and "meekness" are either mutually exclusive, or completely synonymous; so what has God given to Sean: falsity, or redundancy?
@@lancewalker2595 Having great strength can be used in negative ways. “Meekness then is a controlled strength that puts everything in the hands of God”. Don’t know how you got falsity and redundancy out of an innocent compliment. Check your heart my friend.
I greatly admire and respect Mr. McDowell's civility. I watched the documentary Collision featuring Christopher Hitchens, and I understand how British people use the word 'impressed.' No one from the UK would ever think that calling an argument impressive is the same as being persuaded by it. Mr. McDowell is not fluent in British irony if he believes the fine-tuning argument gave Hitchens pause.
America is not behind the curve, we are more inclusive than most countries. We are one of the only countries with so much diversity living so close together.
@@HomeEduSchool I think you misunderstand my point I'm not saying that there's not segregation, discrimination and racism but we are a lot better off than most places.
@@hhstark8663 I am actually attracted to the way he is phrasing the conversation. I think we talk past each other a great deal in these conversations and think I have a healthy perspective on this.
@@TaylorWalston I can also recommend to go on Discord-channels. You are bound to find someone there who wants to talk to you eventually. The best thing is to go on channels specifically titled "apologetics", and NOT general christian channels, since those people (hopefully) know what they are talking about. I am active on the Discord-channel "The Apologetics Empire".
'There's no obligation....We should....' These two statements are a flat contradiction. I'm guessing that if you pressed him more he would probably qualify the 'should' with 'if we want to flourish ourselves' ('I don't steal from you, you don't steal from me' sort of thing), but I wish Josh had pressed him to clarify a bit more.
I just wanted to say this before I watched the video. If I were to say I was anything it would be atheis. I don't consider myself a believer or disbeliever in any religion. With that said I absolutely love what you're doing. I feel like I've learned so much just in the few videos that I've watched of yours. I can't wait to see where this takes me. Maybe you'll make me a believer who knows. I'm just glad that we have humans like you that exist on our planet. Thank you for being open-minded and most importantly thank you for opening up so many minds out there especially the youth. I'm definitely going to watch a ton of your videos in a row 🤣♥️💪
Thanks Damien. I hope they’re helpful!
@@SeanMcDowell Ya, I think you're this atheists favorite apologist too.
Atheists, christians, so called jews, muslims. Yea all peoples of the earth, hear the Word of the Lord, spoken to us, THIS last generation! More of these Letters found at the bottom of this comment;
"Thus says The Lord: Peoples of the earth, do you know Me? Do you really know who I am? I am Elohim. YAHUSHUA-YAHUWAH is My name, both God and Savior. For in The Son does the fullness of The Father dwell.[1]
Yet you of this earth have not known Me! Behold, I have spoken to you plainly, using few figures of speech, yet you do not know Me! From the beginning, even to this day, I have declared My glory through all My servants, the prophets, and still you refuse to embrace Me as I truly am!
Behold, the peoples of the earth pollute My name, and the nations take counsel together to strike Me from remembrance! Therefore, ALL shall come to know Me in My anger! Every tribe, tongue, and people shall behold My hand against the nations, until all those who blaspheme are bowed down, until every jaw is clamped shut and every tongue cleaves to the roof of the mouth! For I am come out of My sanctuary, to astound the nations, to judge and to pour out judgment, to repay and take vengeance upon My enemies, to make an end!
Yet I ask you, who among the nations fears Me? Who among this modern generation, among all these multitudes of perverse and vile people, revere My name? Who, among this great multitude, trembles in fear at the coming of The Lord?! And who among the mighty shall be able to stand, when the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven?! Therefore repent, and establish My way before Me, says The Lord God, and I shall also establish you! For I am The Lord, and I shall establish justice in all the earth!
Why, O peoples of the earth, do you stand proud? Why do you set your faces like stone, and resolve in your hearts to fight against Me? Behold, I have set My face against YOU, and resolve in My heart to abase you, until the pride of man is bowed down and the arrogance of man is utterly humiliated, as it is written! Be bowed down therefore, O most wicked generation! Humble yourselves and repent, and seek now The Righteousness of The Lord, that you may live and not die!
Peoples of the earth, how long shall you court death and desire abomination?!
Your hearts are full of adultery; you cease not from lying down with sin!
Behold, you have joined yourselves to the grave and
With death you have made your agreement![2]...
Foolish people, see now the Word of The Lord,
Open your ears and listen to the voice of The Lord your God,
And establish My way before Me, that you may live and not die...
For there is no other God besides Me;
A just God and a Savior, there is none besides Me[3]...
Says The Lord."
~
"Peoples of the earth, hear the Word of The Lord your God: You are lost, drowning in a deep sea of transgression, sinking in the ever-shifting sands of religion and science. You are stuck in the mire of your iniquities, slowly suffocating, as the fruit of your labor comes full circle to take away your life. For by your own works have you destroyed the garden, on account of your greed have you caused much suffering and death, bringing calamity upon your own heads! Thus because of your great iniquity I have drawn back My hand, and for the multitude of your transgressions the judgment of God has come upon you.
Dead generation, foolish children, evil surrounds you on every side! Darkness closes in, yet you remain unmoved! Detestable birds gather and predators come forth to stalk you as prey, yet you see no cause for alarm! Therefore as I live, says The Lord, My flock has become the prey and My children have made themselves meet for the slaughter! For the peoples of the earth have forsaken Me, days without end; they have altogether gone astray! My created ones have removed themselves far from Me, and My own beloved have not returned to Me, but do always seek their own way! And of the shepherds, they did not go out to search for My flock, but have fed themselves! They did not feed My flock, BUT HAVE FED THEMSELVES!
Therefore hear the Word of The Lord, all you self-appointed shepherds, and give ear, all you wayward flocks, for you have surely broken the yoke and burst the bonds, you have surely forsaken The Lord your God; for thus says The Lord: I am against you! Your houses are fallen, and the foundations upon which you have built yourselves up crumble beneath your feet! All is dust and ashes, rubble piled up in heaps! Oh what a bitter thing this is, unending sadness, anguish and pain; My own beloved have departed from Me, My own children have gone far astray! I gave My Son for them, that they may live and not die, I laid Myself upon the altar, yet they want no part with Me as I truly am! Thus they choose death, and with the grave they have made their agreement.
Therefore, thus says The Lord: Tremble, O heavens! Shake, O earth! Let the seas rage and the mountains crumble before the coming of The Lord! Let the whole earth be bowed down before The Holy One of Israel, for My Kingdom comes!... Behold, The Almighty is coming down to you, yes, The Son who wears the full raiment of The Father. For in Him alone does the fullness of God dwell. Thus HE shall pluck you from the fire, HE shall scourge the nations with the Word of His power, and strike the wicked with the sword of His mouth. Yes, HE shall tread the grapes in the winepress of the wrath of My fury, wiping the wicked from existence, destroying all things which sicken His sheep and cause His flocks to go astray; behold, He shall utterly destroy all that offends!
My people, The Mashiach is your help and your shield;
YahuShua, whom you call Jesus and Christ,
Is The Rock of your Salvation,
The One who is and was and is to come;
For The Father and The Son are One...
Therefore, embrace Me in My Mercy,
And receive of Me in My Great Love.
Thus says The Lord, your Redeemer: I am indeed coming down to shake the heavens and the earth, to move all from its place; to bring forth that which was hidden and to reveal that which was misplaced;[1] to open that which was shut and to shut that which was opened. Therefore prepare, My people, for the time has come; yes, today is the day of salvation! Go forth, beloved ones, and set all these crooked paths straight; regain the line, prepare and watch. For the leaves of the fig tree are upon its branches; summer is near![2]
Again I say, watch. For The One who ascended is about to descend... And lo, I am come, in the volume of the Book it is written of Me, to accomplish The Father’s will.[3] For I have heard the cries of the oppressed and the groaning of the poor and the needy, I know the plight of the fatherless and the widow. I have tasted their tears, and the heart of the faithful is not hidden from Me.
Therefore watch[4] and also listen, and be spared, for I am about to give a shout.[5] For all that is written in the Book of The Lord, both the former and the latter, comes to pass through Me. Take heed therefore, for assuredly I say to you, it shall in no wise come to pass as a mere metaphor or as a parable conceived of by men. For the time of arrogant assumptions and prideful assertions is over, the time of corrupt knowledge and polluted sermons is at an end.
Behold, The Power from on high is coming
Forth to reap and to judge the nations,
To sound the trumpet in the four corners,
To cause the name of The Lord
To resound in all the earth...
Bow before The King, therefore;
Humble yourselves before The Holy One of Israel...
Lay yourselves upon the altar and be broken
Atop The Stone, and it shall bear you up;
Yet stand defiant, and you shall be crushed
Beneath the weight of The Mountain[6]...
For I do not change, says The Lord."
~
"Lo, multitudes of idols fill every corner! Both the believer and unbeliever bow down together and serve their gods! ALL nations worship the works of their own hands, for they have placed their own creations and the love of their own ideas above their Creator! False deities abound, while science and corrupt religion rule over them! Mere theories become truth and doctrine, and lawlessness is widely accepted! And behold, the love of money has become their new taskmaster, and materialism their god!
Sins of every kind imaginable flow through every land!
Yea, as a mighty river it flows into every nation,
Reaching unto new heights in wickedness as the walls
Are broken down, overtopped by these quickly rising waters!
The levees are eroded from beneath, they are
Undermined continually, widening the breach!...
Behold, a great flood of sin has ensued,
A terrible deluge covers the face of the whole earth,
And still the fear of The Lord is all but forgotten!...
THUS THE CUP OF THE WRATH
OF MY FURY IS COME TO THE FULL!
Behold, My Kingdom comes, and My will shall be done on earth as in Heaven. Even as I had purposed it from the beginning, so shall it be done to this generation. For My throne is set high above the highest heavens, and the earth is but a footstool set beneath My feet. FOR I AM THE LORD! YAHUWAH IS MY NAME!
Therefore, let the enemies of The Lord be gathered!"
~
"Behold, the dark clouds gather, the lightning flashes on the horizon, yet no one seeks shelter, not one abides in safety, nor does the sound of thunder make them afraid. For they are a foolish people, a most arrogant generation, a corrupt people heavy-laden with sin; a people who make many lofty assertions without knowledge, a wholly ignorant people who reject the knowledge of God, yet embrace every corrupt theory created by men of science, a people who know not their right hand from their left! Says The Lord."
Apologies for my lack knowledge. Agnostic, not atheist. Learn something new everyday. Honestly, not a fan of labels either way. I live my life by most of the commandments. Not because God or anyone else wants me to. I just think the commandments are a great way to live your life. I've shared this video so many times it's crazy 😂. Keep those great videos coming! 😁♥️
@@dboykinchen88 Thx for watching and sharing!
I so love Sean’s polite demeanor while gently pushing back on Coleman’s atheism. Thank you for showing us how it’s done.
I find the most boring thing about this conversation was this mandatory so often seen "push back" on atheism when christians and atheists talk together. Tired of that position. I think Coleman Hughes was excellent in his reply and kept the status of the whole brilliant. I am glad the rest of the show was interesting.
@@satutaiminmaki905 What do you mean? I mean he is a christian so a challenge of what the interviewee is a necessity. Btw, what does he kept the status of the whole brilliant mean?
I want the whole world to see this. So much respect for you both that I don’t have words to adequately express it. Thank you for having the conversation and for sharing it with all of us.
Thanks for sharing!
Thank You Sean! I love listening to Coleman because he pursues the truth and when he finds it, shares it with the same grace and dignity that you model. You've answered the call and cracked the door open for Coleman to the most important Truth and as he continues I'm sure he'll find Him and be the calming, but powerful voice
Thanks Willard. I really enjoyed this one and hope we can do it again and probe some of these issues in some more depth.
Coleman is a superb and honest thinker. His thoughts are not poisoned by any political agenda, group identity or religion-like convictions. We need more people like him in important positions in society.
You guys modeled such a great way to interview and discuss difficult topics! Mr McDowell you and had great questions, summarized and said great statements and you really let Mr Hughes actually discuss his opinions and beliefs without interruption or aggressive argument back after you had asked him to answer the question. Mr Hughes you did an excellent job as well giving intelligent logical answers in a calm manner and in a brave and kind way. I should watch more of these types of videos so I can practice sharing my beliefs and opinions in a way that is more like this and allows people to listen instead of getting upset by the way that I say things. Thanks again Mr McDowell and Mr Hughes for modeling this for us!
I also have to commend Sean on his restraint and graciousness as a good listener. I’m sure there were more than a few times when he felt like he could’ve pushed back on some of Coleman’s statements but held back, showing respect to his guest. Great job Sean.
" Why there is something rather than nothing? I have no idea. " I just love the honesty of this guy. So many Christians feel they have to give an answer to every question. It is not a sin to say I don't know.
@@hhstark8663 what on earth is "quantum cosmology"?
Sounds like a totality of life... Then what's the relevance of that to the question posed: why is there something instead of nothing?
The question is a summary of why the world and or life exists!! Please educate an urchin from New Brighton!
1 peter 3:15
So true
@@mikekulati7526 No experiment could support the hypothesis 'There is nothing'.
There is something because "nothing" is just a concept. It doesnt exist.
As for why the world and life exists, you would have to specify what kind of "why" you want answered.
There is the "why" as in how it happened (big bang, gravitational energy (general theory of relativity), stellar nucleosynthesis, abiogenesis), or "why" as in is there any ultimate reason for their existence?
As for Quantum cosmology, it is the attempt in theoretical physics to develop a quantum theory of the Universe.
The field is quite extensive, but wikipedia has an article to help you get a laymans gist of what it entails.
True, true, true. Christians have ALL the answers. In reality they have none of the answers. High time we get over religion.
As usual, civility, grace and clarity. This is what the world needs to see, Civil Conversation is a casualty of cancel culture. Everyone is guarded, defensive and prefer to live in a us vs them mentality instead of unity in the midst of diversity.
Coleman is great. Some of the most intelligent discussions on race I've encountered. His podcast covers a really broad range of interesting topics though. I try to listen to everything he posts.
Excellent discussion. If we could all listen as well as Sean does, what a difference it would make in society today!
This is a fabulous conversation. So many of us need to listen to it. I hope some (a lot) of Sean’s listeners start listening to Coleman. He has so many relevant things to say that Christians need to hear.
Great discussion. The origin of conscience, being aware, I can see how that would give anyone pause. God bless Sean, and I pray the seeds planted today in Huges will bring him to the beautiful gospel.
What an excellent video! So great to see Coleman on your show and the quality conversation that you had. I first encountered Coleman during the pandemic, and really enjoy his level-headedness. It's doubly cool that you two teamed up for a great conversation! Well done!
But boy, I never expected this wonderful collab between coleman and Sean and I'm so grateful for it. I would love to see more Christian, Atheist conversation over the state of pressing socio-cultural issues. It adds more flesh to their beliefs.
What a helpful & insightful discussion. You both were great role models on how to have a civil, kind, & respectful conversation regarding difficult life, social, & worldly issues, from different perspectives. Well done by you both. I look forward to future conversations. A great reminder to me on how to engage with others who don't share my beliefs, in love!
Posting in the comments section because the live chat does not seem to be very civil. Thanks for coming on the channel Mr. Hughes. You’ve now gained another listener to your podcast. I find you to be a very thoughtful and well spoken thinker, and I appreciate that.
Great conversation! Both intelligent, thoughtful, articulate and gracious interlocutors. A wonderful example of productive discourse, especially helpful for those of us who are thinking through these same things and lucky enough to listen in. Thank you!
I'm married to someone of opposing political beliefs. I like it. I feel a tension in the opinions but in contrast I enjoy extending a hand of understanding and being peaceful and present with what matters to the other person. There's something beautiful about being so close to someone with different beliefs yet at peace, ready to have empathy for what they experience. It's really satisfying to me for some reason.
Good reflection
Sean, I’m a huge fan and love the depth and level of civility throughout this conversation with Coleman. It would be so interesting to have Coleman interview you in a similar format!
Was not expecting to see this! Looking forward to it.
How refreshing to hear such thoughtful discussion on tough topics. 👏 Please keep the dialog going. May God bless you both
This was a real treat. Two of my fav RUclipsrs in one interview. It was like you knew I was waiting for this. 😁
👊
Great conversation Sean. It really is amazing how similar the talking points are across the majority of skeptics. Even relatively well thought out ones like Coleman.
I loved Coleman’s wisdom regarding how to break the cycle of a broken culture. Coming from the inside to bring change is exactly what Jesus did for us. He became human though he was God. And even when he did this for the whole world, he also does this for each one of us by dwelling in us at our invitation. Now I can not only see the outside example of righteousness, but I am also empowered to live this life by faith relying on his indwelling Spirit.
I really really appreciate these 2 gentlemen. It’s refreshing to see a good model for how to interact with someone who doesn’t share your exact belief system. Although it probably helps that they are both extraordinarily intelligent and thoughtful in how they express themselves, removing a lot of potential confusion that could otherwise easily muddy their conversation.
So concise! 😊
*Dr. Sean McDowell* I salute you. You've asked a number of incredibly interesting questions which have drawn out of *Coleman Hughes* some deeply absorbing comprehensive and fundamental summative answers regarding his thinking. Thank you, Sir.
(What happened to Coleman's sound? It's usually impeccable.)
I’m a long-time follower of Coleman Hughes’ work. I just discovered Sean and have just subscribed to his channel.
Thanks!
Sean we need more like you. I think the reason many Christians can’t listen to outsiders is because they’re so worried about outsiders going to hell they get too emotional to even consider what the outsiders have to say or where they’re coming from. You inspire me a lot and I think you are a great example on how we can connect with outsiders and love them and still keep our faith in God thank you so much. Love you both ❤
I was hesitant to listen to this partly because (admittedly) I like to listen to people I mostly agree with, but also because I don't like the mean arguing that goes on everywhere today. However, this was refreshing, honest, respectful and helped me to remember that people have opinions that mean something deeply to them that I can relate with. Not because they are stupid. Great talk Sean!
Thanks for watching!
Thank you for these valuable conversation, Dr. Sean! Appreciate the respectful exchange.
I love listening to Coleman’s podcast, I’m so happy the two of you are talking!
Always appreciated Coleman, thanks for having him on 🙂
I get the feeling that Coleman is a good guy and seems intellectually honest. But I also get the feeling that he hasn’t spent a lot of time thinking about the God question, coming out of the background he did and being affirmed by atheist popularizers. More conversations like this might cause him to change his mind or at least think more deeply about the subject, maybe not. But he does say he appreciates the quality of being willing to change one’s mind. I admire him for that.
I take his word that he studied philosophy so if I was a betting man I'd say he probably thought about the question a lot. What gave you the impression he hasn't spent a lot of time on the question?
@@calebsmith7179
Philosophy has different branches. There is philosophy of science, philosophy of politics, philosophy of mind, philosophy of language and philosophy of religion, to name a few. In Coleman´s case, he studied philosophy of ethics.
One example of an atheist who was raised by marxist parents as well is Sy Garte, and he first found out that mechanism is false, and later found out that materialism is false and later found out deism is false and eventually after decades accepted Christianity. He outlines his journey is *"The works of his hands"* .
@@hhstark8663 Even with his particular study being the philosophy of ethics, it doesn't mean he hasn't deeply pondered life's big questions, and if someone has an interest in philosophy in general then they have probably given such questions deep thought.
I just find it weird that people are assuming, based on pure speculation, that he must not have given such questions deeper thought.
@@calebsmith7179 Because he is still an atheist, silly man. Many Christians, like many atheists, just cannot understand why others do not see the truth and believe their arguments for their truth are just so obvious.
@@ubersheizer5398 I was waiting for someone to finally say the quiet part outloud, because he's an atheist. Thanks for getting straight to the point.
I really appreciate the way you give so much space to the guest Sean. You don't try to proselytise or brow beat which ultimately makes the show more engaging.
Thanks!!!
What a great conversation! So interesting and thoughtful. Thanks to you both :)
my favorite non christian guest in the show. thanks Sean for having Coleman
I cannot BELIEVE the two of you are together in this! How cool.
What is this ? Deep and fantastic. Love Sean McDowell, and now profoundly impressed by Coleman. I had heard of him and now I see what the buzz it about. What a mind. I'm always impressed by Sean's great learning and intelligence but his long form interviews are great, he has a gift. What a great show. Another great guest.
Thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Increasingly enjoying your content brother ✊🏾
Sean showed patience and understanding. As a Christian I really appreciate what you are doing to enlighten people like me to understand opinions of others who may not agree with my world view . Thank you
Such a wonderful and respectful conversation on very difficult topics. Congratulations to you both.
Keep praying for @ColemanHughes! He's a blessing to all our society and culture in many ways!
Coleman, you are very good at explaining concepts that are difficult to talk about with class. I will check out your show! Sean, love the way you conduct your interviews. I didn't know your Dad had suffered so much as a child. The Lord has used him mightily.
Excellent discussion and done respectfully by both gentlemen. It's encouraging to see and hear.
Hughes is great. Got to give Sean props for having guests that share very few of his views (in particular religious views), save for crossing the floor on issues for the sake of civil discourse.
Sean McDowell is a national treasure. Nay, a global treasure.
Thank you for this talk! As a person who has traveled around the world and stayed with people all over the world, and have witnessed and discussed with those people, the extreme racism that exists in their cultures, I 100% agree with Coleman's assessment of the US being the least racist nation in the world and at the forefront of addressing it. It's so very rare for anyone to point this out so I so appreciate it!
So good. I really appreciated this dialogue. Coleman was a great guest. Well done guys.
I wish more people would watch this video. Thank you both.
Coleman speaks so clearly and intelligently. A pleasure to listen to. And Josh listens well and asks great questions. Bless you both.
Josh is Sean’s dad. This show is Sean’s.
I’ve always really liked Coleman. Very thoughtful, calm, balanced voice in the chaos. Excited to see this interview.
Let us know what you think. He’s one of my favs.
Thank you both for your excellent example of intelligent civil discourse. It was encouraging and helpful.
Thank you for an excellent conversation. I really enjoyed what Coleman had to say and agree with many of the points that he brought regarding issues of race.
One thought I had for the first time was the use of the phrase "tribal instincts" as a basis of why racism is present in cultures across the world. I do understand the context of this phrase, and Coleman is not the originator of this idea, but I find it interesting that "tribal" is viewed as morally less evolved. When I meet people as a Native American, they sometimes don't understand what that actually means so I tell them that I'm "from a tribe". The idea of tribal instincts being less morally evolved can have really negative consequences for tribal people groups. Again, I don't believe at all that this was Coleman's intention, or was the focus of this particular conversation. But when we're discussing race and morality, I think it is so important to highlight that promoting a "moral evolution" does not always lead to moral actions. Taking the "tribal instincts" out of people will not always lead to moral goodness, as evidenced by the boarding schools and subsequent racism of taking the "tribal" out of Native youth. This is why, as a Christian, the only moral standard that I can turn to is outside of human moral standards.
I sure hope you don't follow whatever moral standard is behind the Bible which commands genocide, condones slavery, and treats women as property.
@@NelemNaru I don't think I can convince anyone over a RUclips comment that the Bible does not condone these things. But what I would put forward to you are the words of Christ in Matthew 5:43-44 - You have heard that it was said 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.
Anyone who reads the words in the Bible about how to treat other human beings cannot condone slavery, the mistreatment of women, etc. Anyone who picks and chooses scriptures out of context from the Old Testament to defend their actions do not know God. The Bible is a book that MUST be read in its entirety.
@@amandaf1626 *Slave:* _a person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them._
*Chattel slavery:* _Chattel slavery, also called traditional slavery, is so named because people are treated as the chattel (personal property) of the owner and are bought and sold as commodities, and passed onto children as inheritance._
The Bible talks about slavery a few times. Most of that is attributed to Yahweh himself.
Sometimes it's argued that the ancient Hebrews only had permission to have Hebrew servants, but not slaves. These servants could not be made slaves by kidnapping them (Exodus 21:16). These servants were supposed to be freed after 7 years (Deuteronomy 15:12-18 and Exodus 21:2) so they weren't lifelong slaves. But there's something off with this retelling. In reference to freeing servants, the Bible says:
Exodus 21:4 - _If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's and he shall go out alone._
So the children and women don't go free. The children are born slaves. More, they can be used as leverage to turn a male servant into a lifelong slave, continuing here:
Exodus 21:5-6 - _But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,’ then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall be his slave forever._
If a man doesn't want to leave his wife and children behind as slaves while he goes free, then he has to commit to lifelong servitude, being marked like cattle. The entire family would then be enslaved.
But that hardly matters in determining God's support for Hebrew slavery, because of the next passage
Exodus 21:7-11 - _When a man sells his daughter as a slave, _*_she shall not go out [free] as the male slaves do._*_ If she does not please her master, who has _*_designated her_*_ for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has broken faith with her. If he _*_designates her_*_ for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. If he takes _*_another wife_*_ to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights. And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out for nothing, without payment of money._
Again, women don't go free. Women are being sold and assigned to husbands. They are taken as one of multiple wives (also of note, polygamy) after being purchased as servants. It's hard to see a distinction between this and sex slavery. It is sexual slavery. But, you might say God would never condone sex slavery. Then you have this to contend with:
Numbers 31:18 - _Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him _*_keep alive for yourselves._*
Clearly, these women are sexual property, taken by violence.
Here are instructions for taking war captive women as wives:
Deuteronomy 21:10-13 - _When you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God gives them into your hand and you take them captive, and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and you desire to take her to be your wife, and you bring her home to your house, she shall shave her head and pare her nails. And she shall take off the clothes in which she was captured and shall remain in your house and lament her father and her mother a full month. After that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife._
Then:
Deuteronomy 21:14 - _But if you no longer delight in her, you shall let her go where she wants._
This does not sound like a proper wedding and divorce, even by ancient standards. This is sexual slavery.
Keep in mind that Exodus 21 is immediately after the 10 Commandments. You can't throw one out without the other. Deuteronomy says over a dozen times that the laws are from God, and that obedience will be rewarded (by killing the neighboring people and giving the Israelites the land).
If this hasn't convinced you, God gets more explicit. Most of the above only applies to Hebrew servants and slaves. Non-Hebrews, even those who have integrated into Israelite society, according to God himself, could simply be bought for life.
Leviticus 25:44-46 - *_You may buy male and female slaves_*_ from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and _*_they may be your property._*_ You may bequeath them to your sons after you to _*_inherit as a possession forever._*
*God said, "You may buy slaves* ...and they may be your property." By any definition, this is God condoning slavery.
But maybe you'd think it's ok, because these people somehow chose to sell themselves (even though this is not implied at all). Then you have a problem because again, the child of a slave/servant is also inheritable property, and they obviously have no say.
The next sentence:
Leviticus 25:46 - *_You may make slaves of them,_*_ but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly._
So you _may_ make slaves out of foreigners and rule over foreigners ruthlessly?
What _are_ the limits on how ruthlessly you can treat these slaves?
Leviticus 19:20-22 - *_If a man sleeps with a female slave_*_ who is promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet _*_they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed._*_ The man, however, must bring a ram to the entrance to the tent of meeting for a guilt offering to the Lord. With the ram of the guilt offering the priest is to make _*_atonement_*_ for him before the Lord for the sin he has committed, and his sin will be _*_forgiven._*
So having sex with/raping these women wasn't treated as a crime against another person, or deserving of the death penalty, or requiring marrying her (like would be required in the case of a free woman in Deuteronomy 22). A goat makes things right (which is only even necessary if another man had a claim to her).
Leviticus 27:28-29 - _But no devoted thing that a man devotes to the Lord, of _*_anything that he has, whether man_*_ or beast, or of his inherited field, shall be sold or redeemed; every devoted thing is most holy to the Lord. No one devoted, who is to be devoted for destruction from mankind, shall be ransomed; he shall surely be _*_put to death._*
Allows for slaves to be offered as blood sacrifices to Yahweh.
"He shall surely be out to death," is the same phrase used in the death penalties in Leviticus. Yahweh accepted human possessions as blood sacrifices alongside birds and cattle.
It's possible the following verses could apply to all slaves, but it's only in the context of Hebrews, probably leaving non-Hebrew slaves without even this minimal protection.
Exodus 21:26-27 says that if you gouge their eye out, you have to set them free, but that isn't (really) a punishment. It certainly wouldn't be a punishment if we assume the person had a human right to freedom in the first place.
Exodus 21:20-21 - _When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money._
So God says it's really bad to kill your servant or slave (quickly, anyway; I guess it's ok if it takes a few days). But anything short of that, there isn't a punishment. Why? Because according to God, that man, woman, or child is someone else's "money." That's slaver talk.
So, Yahweh condones slavery.
Ok, but maybe God changed his mind in the New Testament? No. Jesus didn't mention the topic, and the rest just has this to say:
1 Peter 2:18 - _Servants, be subject to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the unjust [or "harsh"]._
Commanding slaves to obey harsh masters with all respect:
Colossians 3:22 - _Bondservants, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord._
Ephesians 6:5-8 - _Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free._
Comparing obeying a slave owner who instills fear and trembling with following Jesus. God rewards obedience to slave owners. One can assume then that disobedience to a master is ungodly. I'm sure many slave owners found this passage helpful.
Ephesians 6:9 - _And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him._
This seems like acceptance of slavery as moral. At least it adds a new rule, though. You shouldn't threaten your slaves anymore. Even if you think not being allowed to threaten your slaves anymore makes it ok, it was well over a thousand years before he revised his commands.
It says, "treat them the same way," but I suspect only one party in this relationship ever obeys, serves, or feels fear and trembling.
*Not only does Yahweh in the Bible explicitly and consistently condone slavery, but it allows for a particularly awful kind of slavery. Yahweh regulated slavery, but in a very weak way that it remained chattel slavery.*
A Christian cannot argue based on scripture alone, without demeaning God, that we should prohibit anyone from owning a slave today.
@@amandaf1626 You're the one cherry-picking verses. You have to look at the full context. When interpreting Biblical contradictions, specific commands override general commands. Jesus said nothing specifically against slavery, yet there are commands in the Old Testament that specifically allow for slavery, and nothing in the New Testament specifically overturns it.
@@NelemNaru I promise that I have read all of the verses in your list, but I noted you left out Philemon, in which Paul urges Philemon to not regard the runaway slave Onesimus as a slave to be punished, but as a brother in Christ (not just a brother, but a beloved brother within that verse).
The question that we should be asking is why it looks like God is clearly condoning these things in one verse, and then has other verses that seem to speak of love and forgiveness and treating others kindly. You claim that Jesus never spoke against slavery . Well he never spoke against pedophilia but I don't consider that condoning that behavior.
I highly recommend watching The Beat by Allen Parr "Does the Bible Support Slavery" on RUclips as a quick reference.
I also recommend looking up The Slave Bible. www.google.com/amp/s/www.history.com/.amp/news/slave-bible-redacted-old-testament
This was an edited version of the Bible with much of the Old Testament and New Testament missing. Why? To take out anything within the Bible that would invite slaves to want to be free or demand better treatment. The Bible does not command us to own slaves (note that modern Christians do not follow Old Testament law, why is that?) I don't have all of the answers to your list, and like I said, a RUclips comments section is an inneffective debating tool. But I do hope that you're open to asking yourself why people who read the Bible of all different cultural backgrounds do not arrive to the same conclusion you do. I hope you have a good day
Amazing lucid and rational thoughts Coleman. Thanks for doing this.
What an enlightening and uplifting conversation!
I wasn't familiar with either of these men, but I really appreciate both of their thoughtful and respectful discussions.
Damn. Looking forward to seeing this
I love Coleman. He’s such a mature, intelligent man. I’m a Catholic so I don’t agree with his religious views, but I enjoy his podcast.
Brother i want God to bless you over and over just for your intellectual honesty.......May Christ bless you and yours sir. What a breath of fresh air
Sean you have done it again, love you bro.
Low-key solid conversation. Seems to be a strength for both these guys
Awesome 🙌🏼 have him on again!
I'll be honest with you my own wife Steel man's almost every opposing argument in our conversations lol. And I thank God that she does that. I know He is using her to help us both grow in understanding
"I know how easy it is to be wrong about something. I've been wrong so many times and I know it's not because you're an idiot .. "
*Thank you!!!* 👏👏👏🤗 🔊 🔈
I used to be a Christian, now atheist I really enjoy your conversations with atheists.
Thanks for watching…and sharing with me. There’s a few coming in 2022 you’ll enjoy!
‘He who believes shall be saved. Theo one that does not believe will be damned.’- the words of Jesus Christ
@@GreaterSolomon and?
@@ethan4048 “I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”- Jesus of Nazareth, John 8:24
@@GreaterSolomon are you attempting to make a point? I don't believe Jesus was the son of god. Are you trying to make yourself feel good?
Coleman has a good heart and good attitude toward life.
Wow. Only listened to a few minutes and gotta go, but will absolutely catch the whole thing tomorrow morning.
I'm thinking Jesus is gonna have Mr. Hughes at some point. At least that is my prayer. What an addition to the Kingdom he will be.
That’d be awesome!
Coleman is giving infp or similar vibes, look forward to hearing his podcast
Great conversation!
So informative! Thank you!
Love Coleman. I would love to hear Coleman dwell more on the is ought gap with regards to normative facts. He seems to have just accepted that 'suffering is bad' - similar to Sam Harris etc.
Was thinking the same.
What a great interview. Such a fascinating and insightful young man. I’m unlikely to have stumbled across him unless you had interviewed him so thank you
You bet…and I agree!
Hitch wasn't given pause in the way you describe it. He had a profound awe of the numinous, but in the hundreds of debates and interviews with him I've watched and in all of his writings I've never come across him being compelled by the any argument for design on the grounds of so-called 'fine tuning' or anything else.
Thank you Coleman!
Subscribed
Interesting. I’m a conservative Christian but I’ve been following Coleman Hughes for a while now. But I actually haven’t followed Sean McDowell until now, although I’ve known about you for several years.
Plenty of people were following Hitler in the Third Reich. Maybe this followership thing is not quite as good as it sounds in your mind? ;-)
I have reservations about Robin diAngelo's book, "White Fragility", but I'd be interested to hear what her response would be to Coleman's representation of her e.g. saying that we shouldn't cry in front of black people.
Wow. Right from the start... what a POWERFUL testimony and Personal AFFIRMATION of the POSITIVE IMPACT having both a Mom and a Dad PRESENT in the growing-up lives of children. Before even getting into things, THAT made my heart sing.
This also reminds me how RARE it has become to engage with people who are willing to THINK deeply, ANALYZE carefully, and ENGAGE RESPECTFULLY. Bravo!! THANK YOU BOTH, so much!!!
An atheist, black conservative. I love that. I wish millions in the black community were like you Coleman.
Lol
What color are you
100% agree with fellow Coleman about the unite states being the less discriminatory country in the world. Immigrating from Peru where I was discriminated for everything, last name, district I live, clothes, etc…
Yeah he’s from the suburbs lol he is NOT speaking for everybody black person. Chill
You missed it Coleman. Oblige as used here means "ought" or "should"?
You just earned yourself an atheist subscriber. Great conversation, I am always looking for more interactions like these that come from a starting point of mutual respect and an attempt to understand another point of view.
I’m honored! I think you’ll like my latest one with Jonathan Gottschall-one of my favs in awhile.
Despite the different believe, man, Coleman Hughes is really a nice guy in his heart!
WOW! enjoyed this.
Sean is becoming the American version of Justin Brierley (of Unbelievable in the UK). Good on you, mate!
49:07 to 50:51 - Great point.
We need this guy to be Christian! He seems very intelligent, well-spoken and balanced. Way to go for a lot of people calling themselves Christian.
I'm subbed to Coleman, because he's an intelligent, open minded person who disagrees with me. I think I can always learn something from him. I'm not black obviously, but I really object to the idea that going to an IVY league uni means you have no actual oppression. I'm trans and have several trans friends and in my circle at least it's a minority of trans people who have NOT had at least one parent threaten to disown them if they transitioned. None of us go to IVY league uni but we were all pretty privileged economically. None of us actually were disowned, but the threat itself is pretty damaging.
Have you had James Lindsay on your show? I would really love to hear you have a conversation with him!!!!!
That would be intriguing. Lindsey's book on atheism is one of the most powerful post-New Atheist ones out there, totally reframing the God debate as a postmortem triviality.
Great interview.
I have begun pondering why we use the term race in the way we do. I know why in times past mankind did. Enslavement and control; to divide mankind. But since we are all of the same human race, when we speak of racism, what are we really saying?? People from different religions? Languages? Countries? Ethnicities? Different levels of melanin?? Still the same human race. Why do we continue to keep track of human's melanin at all? Eg, on the American census, or demographics. I understand for some medical reasons (and that's private) but aside from that, aren't we creating division by constantly labeling ourselves, black, brown or white?? None of us are "melanin blind" but our melanin isn't who we are.
Oh interesting! Coleman Hughes is an intelligent and well-spoken guy. This will be interesting.
Sean, your composure in your videos with people who have differing views is amazing. God’s given you great strength and meekness! Love to see it.
"God’s given you great strength and meekness"
Depending on the translation, the biblical meaning of the concepts "strength" and "meekness" are either mutually exclusive, or completely synonymous; so what has God given to Sean: falsity, or redundancy?
@@lancewalker2595 Having great strength can be used in negative ways. “Meekness then is a controlled strength that puts everything in the hands of God”. Don’t know how you got falsity and redundancy out of an innocent compliment. Check your heart my friend.
@@katvasanth_ Right, so.... meekness necessitates strength. "strength and meekness" = redundancy.
@@lancewalker2595
❤️
@@lancewalker2595 Not quite. The meekness is possible...a manifestation of... that strength.
I greatly admire and respect Mr. McDowell's civility. I watched the documentary Collision featuring Christopher Hitchens, and I understand how British people use the word 'impressed.' No one from the UK would ever think that calling an argument impressive is the same as being persuaded by it. Mr. McDowell is not fluent in British irony if he believes the fine-tuning argument gave Hitchens pause.
What a thoughtful, interesting, conversation.
America is not behind the curve, we are more inclusive than most countries. We are one of the only countries with so much diversity living so close together.
@@HomeEduSchool I think you misunderstand my point I'm not saying that there's not segregation, discrimination and racism but we are a lot better off than most places.
Thanks!
How can I reach Dr McDowell to have this kind of conversation?
Sean McDowell is probably busy.
But I can recommend that you contact the channel *"SJ Thomason"* . She likes to have conversations with people.
@@hhstark8663 I am actually attracted to the way he is phrasing the conversation. I think we talk past each other a great deal in these conversations and think I have a healthy perspective on this.
@@TaylorWalston
I can also recommend to go on Discord-channels. You are bound to find someone there who wants to talk to you eventually.
The best thing is to go on channels specifically titled "apologetics", and NOT general christian channels, since those people (hopefully) know what they are talking about.
I am active on the Discord-channel "The Apologetics Empire".
'There's no obligation....We should....' These two statements are a flat contradiction. I'm guessing that if you pressed him more he would probably qualify the 'should' with 'if we want to flourish ourselves' ('I don't steal from you, you don't steal from me' sort of thing), but I wish Josh had pressed him to clarify a bit more.