Only one reason I'm okay with net decking: watching a man's soul cry when his $657.86 modern deck gets smashed by a basically free one. Best feeling. Ever
I like netdecking. Not doing it, I just like to see what's going on in everyone's mind. Then I can put some weird-ass tech in my jank decks that just probably shuts down the top deck. Or build an assassin deck for dirt cheap to kill the netdeck instantly.
@@JosephEarly eh, idk. He did say word for word that standard is the only thing people care about it. I don't think anyone could claim that tournaments in other formats don't generate netdecks. What I think he meant is that his channel is mostly about standard, but I could be wrong.
I guess its the gamer in me. but building your deck is part of the game, you build YOUR deck to YOUR playstyle. see my point. If you build a net deck, your building someone elses deck, and playing someone elses playstyle. I cant do that. cause this is a game of "One players junk, is another players treasure." some players forget that. Cause really, playstyles and just like indevisuales, yea theres similarities sometimes. its ok to look at the top decks and whatnot. and think "OK I want to build that" SO pull the combo pieces out. and build around that. Cause you may see or stumble across something that no ones knows about. Were freaking human, we make mistakes, overlook things, and we make it work for the individual. I man if we just stayed with one "cookie cutter" thinking. We would all be driving Fords, and wouldn't have the other car companies. same for soft drinks, energy drinks, etc etc, you get the point. . Same thinking should be applied to constructing a magic deck. make it your own. use the combos, but make it your own. weather it works out good or bad, if it don't, pull the crap that not's working and find something that does work. Hone your deck, like a blade of a knife.
to me playstyle is the how and why you chose one card over another. how you work the deck, what card you picked combos with another card. etc etc etc. it's all part of custom building a deck. jus sayin. play style is how you play. it's just a loose term. it's like comparing 2 different athletes that play the same game in the same position. say Micheal Jordan and Scott Pippin. same game. same position. but the playstyle is how they played the game. see where I'm coming from......
Chateau Chat I think you missed something somewhere, ... their is a meaning to a playstyle. its all part of the how and why you play the game. ..... you just over analyzing a concept that changed from player to player. its like chasing a ghost. its not a tangible thing.
Chateau Chat I think your missing the point of playing Magic. for the fun man, win or lose, as long as you have fun, building your deck to fit your playstyle. the cards synergize with one another. But above it all have fun. but ive been wrong before. but it seems like to me, that you cant see the forest for the trees.
+Dan Acton I'm sorry but who are you to define how myself and other players have fun playing the game. I netdeck because I don't enjoy the building process that much, but the fun part for me is playing out the game. I do have fun playing magic regardless if I built my own deck or not
Holy shit another Wisconsin boy. I have been lurking around your channel watching some of the old content since I got back into arena after a very long separation from the game. I dig your content and agree with pretty much everything you said.
Love this - your deck is only as good or bad as the environment (meta) in which it is played - and its so so true - even a big tournament is not a large enough sample size
A wise man once told me that the best chess player fears not the second best. He fears the worst player. He's never played that guy, and so he doesn't know his playstyle.
At my FNM there is not even a Standard section, it is no big pace either, the only thing run actively is Draft, it is inexpensive, and doesn´t make people go netdecking
I've seen several of your videos, I'm trying to familiarize myself with magic before I attend my first FNM. I find them very informative, and they cmtfu. Grazie!
I was playing on Xmage a few days ago and the guy I got matched up against dropped a turn one Wandering Fumarole, I asked if he was running Grixis Control and in response he conceded the match.
Hey mate, I legitimately enjoy your videos, thanks for the great content! In my LGS we have FNM Legacy, modern, and standard! My LGS has an event everyday at 7pm called "x" dailies (commander -> modern -> frontier -> modern -> legacy/modern/standard -> standard -> sunday(no events), and every single event has a 1st prize of cards valued at at least $100. In this case do you still think net decking for a foil bob at a standard night is a bad thing? Just looking to see where you stand :) Thanks for the vids once again.
Some kid at my LGS thinks he's a big shot because he always plays top tier decks in Modern but I always kick his ass regardless of what deck I'm piloting. And on the other end you have this one guy who always comes to tournaments with obscur tier 3 decks and wrecks us because he's THAT much better than us all. Seriously, that guy won a Vintage tournament playing his Modern Martyr Life because he forgot his deck boxes...
I love it when people say that Netdecking is a must, especially if they say what you were saying Tastysnackies was saying about "If you hate netdecking you just hate losing as much as you do". Virtually every week at my LGS I go 3-1 or 4-0 with a rogue deck. Jund Midrange, Naya Tokens, B/W Panharmonicon and this week with Jeskai Metallurgic Summonings. All you have to do is bother to learn the math, learn the deck, know what hands to keep, know the weaknesses of the deck and how to sideboard to remedy the weaknesses of a deck or give yourself more of an edge against the format. I want to play my own deck, with my own ideas, and to where I know why every single card I put in the deck is in there.
when i used to be able to play local i kitchen sinked a really janky deck that surprised me with it's performance during the theros-kahns standard cycle, when i was running it it had a 60-70% winrate as nobody i went against had a real counter to the stuff it did and majority of it's losses was from land issues while also being insanely fun. some cards: Daring Thief, Felhide Spiritbinder, Scuttling Doom Engine, Spring Leaf Drum, Ornithopter, Scrapnel Blast, Twinflame, Clever Impersonator, Ensoul Artifact, Magma Jet, Chief Engineer, Darksteel Citadel then regular land cycle rares. basically i would clone and steal things on the field and before the clones got exiled if an artifact i would shrapnel blast it, particularly the Scuttling doom engine for an additional 6 damage. i have only been playing for a year or so when i made it so i'm sure it could of been made better, did have negate/cancel/lightning strike/circle of flame in the sideboard if i needed it, though the decks only main weakness was token decks and maybe some control as the stronger creatures my opponent put out the stronger my deck would get.
Personally, and I know this belief is not held by many around this channel (no shade), I think that net decking is a way to play magic that can be very different from other ways. When you are playing at the kitchen table or with friends, you should seriously brew. That is the time to have fun, and try out crazy ideas. FNM is more the time for hone your skills and level up your game, becoming a better magic player. Net decking can help do this by giving you access to a well tuned deck that will present more options in play and side boarding. TLDR: net decking can be good, but don't always do it
I didn't even rant as hard as des and I got banned from my local mtg fb page. some people are way too sensitive for life, and many are net deckers. bottom line, net decking is like cheating on a test in school, looking over the smart kid's shoulder for the right answers. at least knowing what most people are playing makes it easier for me to design the decks I need to play. think for yourselves people, lead, don't follow
I netdeck on XMage to learn new archetypes. I usually pick an archetype that I've never played before and get on Tapped Out or MTG Goldfish. Once I play that for about a week or so and get the principles of the archetype down I'll create my own deck and then tweak it. It's helped me learn new archetypes and play styles, counter measures for them, and has shown me cards that I would never have found before.
How would you counter panharmonicon decks? The particular one I am having trouble with uses eldrazi displacer and reflector mage, with a bunch of other annoying stuff that won't let you do anything (thought knot). Even if they don't play panharmonicon the whole game (incredibly unlikely) they still will have a solid deck. Any suggestions?
This is why many of us stopped playing, the current meta is skewed so much towards OP singles that you really don't stand much of a chance if you don't play a current net deck archetype.
What do you think about net decking in long term formats like modern and Legacy, where the decks are stronger the meta has settled and the cost is much higher?
So I play modern. I play mono green eldrazi-tron but the deck list is pretty different compared to most. Would that be considered a net deck? (I won't stop playing it regardless. I honestly enjoy the way it play)
Honestly, I've found a difference between net-decker behavior based on my personal experience and it all depends on the mindset going in. If they thought a mechanic was cool, and are net-decking to get a good baseline for it, they will generally be pretty chill people. If they choose their deck solely based on what topped, then yeah, they're generally not fun people.
I play Pauper and the format is constantly changing, when i first got in the format i thought i could just throw a deck together and play, then i realized how little i knew about many of the better cards in the format, so I netdecked for the last year, now i have a firm grasp on the meta and can build and brew based on that knowledge, without it I was shooting a bb gun in the dark at a bear
Hello, Des, I recently saw your video recounting your illustrious careers, and you mentioned how your casino training helped you spot cheaters. I was wondering if you would be inclined to teach this to myself and your other subscribers.
At what point does a brew become a netdeck? If i where to run Delirium and I don't want to net deck... Am I Not to add Flayer, Liliana, Traverse, Ishkana, Grasp and Emrakul? (this makes up already 50% of the deck)
the trick is by bean creative you muss modify the deck when you play delirium play this card but not except to not being hard counterd by usual side board but when you can try to modify the deck so you have special counter i newer netdeck and probably never will cause i try to be original and second think when you play thinks like that obiosly you will play this staple card but try to modify the not staple to your need try to evolve your deck this is the point netdecking is nice to start but you muss modify it to be better
What's wrong with netdecking for someone like me who's not only new to the game but also doesn't have the time to put in hours of time making and testing a deck? Magic is a confusing game to begin with what's wrong with me starting with a deck that has been tried and true tested to be decent? I don't think homebrew is for everyone and if you want to netdeck do it. PLus I have already started tweaking my first deck (which is a netdeck) and I think I have made it better for my playstyle. I would love to homebrew but I have to learn the game first and have the time. If you have 20ish hours a week to sit down and build a deck and test it then good on you but not everyone has that luxury and just wants to play the game on Fridays.
On another point if you don't like net decking in standard then play draft more? Idk not being mean but just a thought I am horrible at draft but I still play it to try and get better.
16 rounds, usually actually 1,000 to 1,300 players... TWoo didnt build that alone, him and some people in the Mastermind were brewing it and he chose to play it. if your deck is not winning, and is an "otherwise good deck" then adding removal or other control elements to slow your opponent down and increase your chances of winning, that is logical and a basic element of deckbuilding, adaptation.
What do you think of netdecking (in the traditional sense) in EDH? For example the "it's my turn for the rest of the game" Narset, Enlightened Master decks, Atraxa infect, Grave infinite combos, Derevi stax, and the like.
They're overpowered, not fun, and massively frowned upon by everyone in every play group. Commander is about building your own deck, plain and simple. You have to be a massive "have to win" douche to play a net deck in commander.
DesolatorMagic Perfect answer, except two caveats: One, they rarely win because multiplayer groups hate them out of the game fast, and two, the decks are damned expensive compared to the ones that beat them to a pulp. Worst strategy ever in EDH is netdecking. Searching decklists for ideas is one thing, but you can't afford to netdeck.
They are always acceptable, unless you don't want to be the target of some very serious in game and out game hate. People in commander tend to be some of the sorest losers of all time.
Wondering, where does the line go for something being a netdeck? I play Doran, it's basically junk, plays path, abrubtdecay etc, and I am not the first person to ever make that kind of deck. Is that a netdeck then? Or is netdecking only copy pasting the 8 best decks?
I think net decking has its place in formats like edh, not all players have the time to dig through every set ever printed to find a handful of playable cards and build an edh deck out of, especially if you're wanting to do some really different edh decks like Mishra. It can be helpful, especially for new players, to get different ideas of what people are running with particular commanders. That being said, I pride myself on always building from scratch and taking the time to sit down and actually dig through every set in order to build my decks, and to make non-conformitive decks. I have a non-combo jank-ramp maelstrom wanderer deck that focuses on the landfall mechanic, and I have lots of fun with it. I run cards like Guided Passage, which i think is fun. The deck has around a 60-75% win ratio, and I didn't use any online lists to make it, just time and trial and error, and I love that deck. Had it for over 6 years now and it's still evolving
Net decking is for people who have no skill deck building, but still may be good players.. of course, any idiot with enough cash can buy any deck out there...that also takes no skill, but......some are not playing for fun, they are playing for $$$$ , and netdecking at a tournament does give you a good chance of winning something if you suck at deck building. I'm very good at deck building, but never net decked , mainly cause I only play with decks I have built, it's so much fun beating someone with a deck they never seen or never thought of, and have no defense against... of course even to build your own deck, to compete you need to spend some $$$$, how much depends on what deck you want to build.
I do it because the deck is fun and I have a good chance at packs. I use to build my own decks but net decking became easier and I went from going average 3-1 to 4-0 soooooo.....
I decided to take a stand on this by going to a crowded public place and shouting "KILL ALL NETDECKERS". Quite a people took issue with it. In particular, I learned that African American gentlemen are apparently VERY passionate about Magic.
85% of my lgs plays some form of blue/white control. this week I brought ur gravity bomb deck, and it turns out tapping spell queller doesn't help me.... what deck should I bring to help beat that.
Matt Spell your right. people today want huge rewards for as little effort as possible. me, I've never net decked, mainly because I build decks around my own ideas, lol, to me building a deck is as fun as playing.
I still remember how nice the dudes at my LGS were to little 14 year old me playing at FNM. Somehow i lucked out with gaming stores i guess cause while now i know i was terrible at making decks since it essentially was me putting cards i liked together and what not i tended to not be completly crushed and win a few games. Then one of the guys is like hey why don't i help you figure out a deck and i spent like 30-50 bucks on cards and got together a white weenie deck that revolved around some of the allies from old zendikar and some cheap flyers to just rush down and having Brave the Elements to help finish the game.
i play modern only because its what i was first introduced to, and watch his vids for fun. i get so excited when you talk about modern and then you on it and i go cry some more lol.
I’m a relatively new player. I played before but I’m just getting back into it I’ve met decked budget decks on RUclips then added my own cards to upgrade them. Now I’ve been building my own decks which are doing really well. Net decking helped my deck building skills believe it or not. But then again I was net decking 50-100 commander decks not 800-1200$ decks. I learned a great deal about deck building from upgrading the decks. I think net decking has its place in magic
i think the only time i looked up decks online was to look up what other people had done just to get a few ideas and see if i'd missed any good cards. i think the last time i did that was to look up decks using all 3 modules and i found basically nothing :/
I completely agree with this video. I have my own rashmi bant deck that I did side events just this weekend in Louisville grand Prix and demolished in standard. no one knew how to play against it and had not side board cards for me . About 65$ because lands and spell queller.
Honestly, your deck is your tool as much as it is an extension of you personally (as a Planeswalker, if you wanna get technical with the lore and the premise of the game). No OP Net Deck is truly unbeatable, just as no home brew is automatically out of the running; what truly matters is how well a player knows his deck, and which player can take the fullest advantage of what their deck decides to give them in any situation. Yes, the idea of Net Decking is to negate some portion of the skill gap between players, but even the mightiest of decks can fall to a Pauper's deck made of nothing but commons and uncommons if the player knows how to max out its potential and can think on the fly- that was what I learned when I first tried MTG, and it remains true to this day (mostly because I started around the Tarkir block, when we started seeing these stupidly OP decks popping up)... But that's like, my opinion, man. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter
and this is why I avoid standard, I've met a netdecker, I can't stand him and I'd hate to meet even more, I play for fun, not to be competitive, it's why I stick to playing commander with my group of friends, I don't even play commander at my local game store's game nights for it because I know there will be people who netdeck, it's much more rewarding to build a deck myself and get a win with it, I feel like I'm improving as a player and deck builder that way
Is it net decking to go online see how someone else approached a certain deck idea? If you do a lot of research online about what a deck archetype plays you might end up with a very closely related deck to one that you saw online. Is net-decking just copying top tournament results, where is the line?
I consider myself a fairly new player (been playing Magic for about a year-and-a-half) and the thing I find most fun about this game is building my own decks. But I've also found that when I play my decks I often get slaughtered, especially when I was really new to it. It's taken me a long time to understand how to build a good deck and build up my playing skills and confidence, and yet I know I still have a lot to learn. So I don't think it's so bad if newer players copy and play top decks to learn how a good deck functions and how to play in general. If a newer player gets slaughtered every time they play Magic because they've been shamed for copying online deck lists, then they probably won't stick around for long. But, yeah, I find it hard to imagine being a really experienced player who only copies the "best" deck lists. That's no fun. The best part of the game is coming up with something of your own that can beat the best decks.
Dude, even if what you say if correct, this isn't the best way to go about it. If anything it isn't people net decking that ruins the game, it's people cheating or people complaining about it. And the idea that a deck of cards determines what type of person you are is a little farfetched to me. And dude, just because your local gaming area is filled with shitty people doesn't mean anyone else who has a pretty good community is the exception it just means that they don't have a bunch of assholes. Here is a question for you Desolator, what if someone grabs a decklist of an established deck in the current meta that they actually have fun with? That they like playing the deck for more reasons then just winning. For example, I am building into Green Red Energy cause I like how the deck runs and I think energy is a cool mechanic that I want to try out plus the deck fits into a playstyle I am the most comfortable with playing. And even if I wasn't a huge fan of net decking that doesn't I am going to demonize all players who do net deck. I am sick of random causes like this that just demonizes a whole group based on the actions of a few. I think the only real reason people get mad at decks they can't beat is because they never bother to prepare for them. This has nothing to do with whether you are net decking or brewing your own deck, if you don't prepare for what's common place at your store then of course you're going to lose often. Hell I'm still learning how to properly sideboard and prepare for anything. That is all I'm going to say on the subject. I'm sorry for anyone else reading if this is just rambling on with no meaning. Though based on what I have heard about this guy I'm not sure this comment is going to stay long enough for anybody to read it.
Unfortunately, I have never been a good deck builder. If I want to stand a chance I need to at least netdeck to give me a framework. Now, I will play test and make adjustments to attempt to strengthen the deck but building a deck from the ground up has never worked for me in the past. I want to be able to but the biggest obstacles are time needed to do extensive play testing and the knowledge of all of the options, especially in formats with large pools of cards like Modern.
I net decked once mainly because I felt lazy, had the cards and the deck actually looked fun (which it was). other than that, i always brewed my own decks (many tomes, 2- 3 weeks later a net deck would emerge that was almost a carbon copy, but what can you do. the one thing about what I would that was expensive is I would try to get all the good mana fixing lands as fast as possible. this would allow me to play what I wanted. all this being said, I had a match win percentage of around 66%. this was between a number of lgs. I don't play standard any more mainly because I am married, have a little daughter and simply don't have time any more to keep up.
but trav also said netdecking is an important part of becoming a better player to learn how they work cause theres no way you could main and side board for all of the meta at a competitive event
My local game store is located in Washington state and our areas share different political views and for modern at least people use net decks but they aren't rude like net deckers in your area. There aren't net deckers they just don't know how to build decks that aren't already built. Then recently one magic player at or store who was the most experienced, but had played long enough to get a grasp on the game brought a modern shaman deck and kicked everyone's butt. Everyone there was so confused because they thought a neck deck was the best. We all learned a valuable lesson or the smart ones did
Yay, C&C Generals! My favourite entry in the series. Red Alert comes in second, tho. Also, 666th like. Hehe. Pity it wasn't in any of the LGS's from hell videos.
I'll be honest with you. I netdeck. Why? Money. Usually I build my own deck and then, BAM 400 euro. Guess what, Im not buying that, unless im certain it works so instead of buying 400e worth cards that wont work at all, I rather look up decent deck that is similar to the one I made up (at least in playstyle) and I go with it. Sure once I dont have to buy cards into my decks, I will gladly play my own decks, but you know, I dont want to buy 4 Lilianas just to try my own deck that wont work anyway....
personally, the only reason I see for net decking is if you're new to the game and dont understand the Meta in magic, whats good whats not, how to build a deck that works, then I would look up some winning decks and see what those look like, they wont be perfect no matter what but at least it gives you some insight as to how a solid deck is built
All these kids playing turn-1 win decks with cards they fully foiled for $2,200 on the internet wondering why no one wants to play a casual game with them at the local game shop in the comments whining about how netdecks are the best and *everyone has to play netdecks because they are the best* You want to know HOW those netdecks were created? By someone having a *new* idea and making a *new* deck and playing that *new* deck. What these people are saying is they are so stupid that they don't think they can build a counter deck to counter their friends. --- I played someone who was green/white who would green tutor into Primordial Hydra with a bunch of white control to pacifism or exile any creature... while I was playing some equipment thing with no real anti-enchantments. And guess what, I got frustrated with it and built a counter deck. I started running red/blue "gain control of target permanent." So he got frustrated and switched to Blue Jace mill. So I got frustrated switched to Black/red zombie+flashback. So he switched to mono blue unblockables+counterspells. So I switched to token+lifegain overrun. So he switched to infect unblockables. So I switched to Green/White Melira with first strikers and enchants. And on and on and on... Any netdecker who tried to play again my friend and I would quickly get frustrated as we would both build a deck specifically to counter them. Obviously this doesn't speak to tryhards who do nothing but competitions, but anyone who searches "easiest way to win in magic" isn't someone who is having fun. Yes, you can copy a deck and still have fun with it, and you can create a completely new deck and be a tryhard... but most of these people aren't smart enough, or don't *want* to learn how to play the game, so they copy someone else who did well without even a single idea of WHY the deck is good...
I love net deckers because without them I'd have no one to lord my knowledge of how powerful a card is and how it should be played in competitive but the pros haven't got around to testing it
I've been playing G/B delirium for about 6 months now, since it was popularized in soi standard. I've been playing death's shadow zoo in modern for about 7-8 months as well. I'm building grixis Delver in modern right now, just bought my playset of Snap daddies for that. I use those in every tournament I play. Hell I even play derevi in commander, which is a top deck there. So that makes me everything you hate about magic. But I also play fun decks when I'm not playing otherwise. I still play u/r fevered visions and I still have g/b rites built. But neither of those decks compete in the current meta of standard. G/B delirium does. Because I "netdeck" doesn't make me a bad person, and I'm not ruining magic. I just like winning my fnm's and local tournaments.
DesolatorMagic Yes, but they are easily answered and are glass cannons. Many edh decks are built to combat these decks. Also, the fastest edh decks win t2, and aren't that bad. Prossh EDH can stop these decks with interaction and then win itself.
In duel commander no deck can win on turn one because all the fast mana is banned except for like chrome mox, also all of the strongest tutors are banned. The only turn 1 combos in multipla yer require at least 4 specific cards in the opener to win. Only one I can think of at the moment is; entomb + dark ritual + animate dead + a dual land that doesnt come in tapped + Grenzo Dungeon Warden.
Except bringing net decks to the pro tour is how you get eliminated on day 1 of the qualifier. As Des said, the people that are going to eventually win a major tournament in any game, not just magic, have to make meta calls, and when net decks are a large chunk of the meta, pros will build to crush them. Example: In D&D Minis, shortly before the game's death, at the championship tournament at Gen Con, a friend of mine from a previous game brought a warband that had matchups where it would simply auto-lose, since he was relying on people not running the counter because people wouldn't run his band because there was a hard counter. He did very well in that tournament. Exactly one person there anticipated that people would do this, but no one else brought the formerly OP-as-shit band that now had a hard counter, which meant that the friend never went up against the guy with the counter and so won all his matches in the Swiss rounds. ALL of them. All because he correctly predicted the meta. If he had been wrong, he would have been crushed. He was right.
I'd only net deck if I'm new to a particular format and I don't know how to build a deck for said format then I would build those decks and upgrade accordingly once I'm used to the format.
"The winner can't be the best" you are not wrong but it is more about being consistent than being the best deck. Consistence is a great factor on winning a lot of tournements so if the same deck is aways topping the tournements then it creates an argument for they to be the best kind of deck for a tournment. While one tournment is not enough 5 one after the other then it becomes statistically relevant. "Using the same deck as the last winner of the tournment puts you in a disavantage" that is called "meta", your sideboard is for that. Your exemple of having a deck that attacks some weakness in the top decks does not actually put you in an advantage as it depends on being matched against those decks and it is likely their decks are more consistent than yours so you may win the first game because of the surprise factor and then get overrun in the next two after boarding. "the surprose factor" is a thing to have but not one to rely on. I have won with a humans revive deck when it was not meta but it was making tops when I got the list. After it became popular it stopped winning because people would side against it, that's the meta and it changes and you change with it and choose the next deck to use. For the third point everyone I know that plays magic netdecks. They are all friendly and know that knowledge about the game is as important as the consistency of the deck.
I have never played or against a net deck (maybe because I play stupid decks and come last XD), and i am trying to start building better decks, but I like playing with control or big stomp decks and I can't because everyone I play against have emerge and r/w vehicle decks and it sucks. I don't know what to play...
This is a literal pile of horseshit. You're effectively saying "you look online, find the best cards to put in a GB delirium deck, and throw it together, that's not netdecking. But if you look online, find the best cards to put in GB delirium and throw it together, that's netdecking." Is the real difference using "ctrl + c, ctrl + v" instead of typing the card names yourself? Is it netdecking if you just LOOK at the list, memorize it and then build it? you didn't copy-paste, right?
It's weird why this video has this many dislikes, I actually agree with Des on this issue, the recent tournament winner *isn't* the "best" deck, but it will be the most popular deck afterward, not the best. Speaking of underrated cards, Metallurgic Summonings is pretty decent. but it's almost worthless now.
I actually agree with just about all of your logic and reasoning, but there has to be some variable that isnt being taken into account, because what your saying is that if you brew and build to beat the top net decks your more likely to win. And what i dont understand is why are 90% of the pro's who have put in hours and hours of playtesting doing the exact opposite and just running the top 3 netdecks? I mean were dealing with a fairly smart group of people. if it was as simple as build against the top netdecks and win wouldn't they be doing it? especially if theres monetary gain? Or am i just giving the intelligence of the competitive scene to much credit?
I think the existence of net decking is just plain bad for the game. Deckbuilding is a very important part of winning with any type of deck, and removing that from a large part of the meta is that it reduces design space for R&D. If a ridiculous combo requires a finely crafted deck for it to work somewhat consistently, which ruins the meta if everyone could just look up the optimal decklist. Essentially, netdecking ruins the fun of combo decks.
I mostly net decided, but I like fringe decks and play for fun. I suck at deck building, I've taken a few I've made and get stomped. I'm running mono red prison in modern and going goblins in standard
I’m only a little into this video so perhaps you address this but whatever, Net decking is good for newer players as it teaches how things work while allowing them to win a few matches in the learning process.I started with net decks and now i “ graduated” to brewing and have the same win ratio as I did.
I'd say that I'm not a terrible person and I kind of netdeck, it's plain and simple, I terribly suck at deck building and I don't play enough and follow the meta enough to build deck that does something. Although I'm kind of getting better at it and I want to get better!
Here is something funny and this is an EDH story...so this one person brings in this stupidly consistent Jeleva doomsday deck and is constantly tutoring, I got tired and built a deck SPECIFICALLY designed to punish players for tutoring or hell shuffling their decks, then throw in a lot of cards that causes them to shuffle their decks, eventually when I end up taking away their winning combo, they go ape-shit and just rage quits...Point is..Netdecking is not good at the same time, it is good because you know what to expect
You can't have one without the other. You should be looking at other decks and you should be building your own, that's what makes a great player. Thats just dumb, netdecking all the time. How are you going to grow as a player if you don't gain experience at building competitive decks of your own? Those new decks had to be built by someone. The inverse is true also, you should also look at other decks to see what works good in competitive and the history/meta of it.
I play magic for the creativity and social interaction. Why play magic only to win and ignore half of each new set? I also suspect that net deckers aren't as common as Desolator thinks.
Des here is my problem. I say oh I just won fnm with a rogue deck that was worth oh wait... $100. Thanks net decks for just so happening to use a few of the same cards I use.
Only one reason I'm okay with net decking: watching a man's soul cry when his $657.86 modern deck gets smashed by a basically free one. Best feeling. Ever
I like netdecking. Not doing it, I just like to see what's going on in everyone's mind. Then I can put some weird-ass tech in my jank decks that just probably shuts down the top deck. Or build an assassin deck for dirt cheap to kill the netdeck instantly.
Odd to hear you say Standard is the only thing people care about. Here in Toronto, Modern nights are packed and Standard is empty.
@@JosephEarly eh, idk. He did say word for word that standard is the only thing people care about it. I don't think anyone could claim that tournaments in other formats don't generate netdecks.
What I think he meant is that his channel is mostly about standard, but I could be wrong.
I guess its the gamer in me. but building your deck is part of the game, you build YOUR deck to YOUR playstyle. see my point. If you build a net deck, your building someone elses deck, and playing someone elses playstyle. I cant do that. cause this is a game of "One players junk, is another players treasure." some players forget that. Cause really, playstyles and just like indevisuales, yea theres similarities sometimes. its ok to look at the top decks and whatnot. and think "OK I want to build that" SO pull the combo pieces out. and build around that. Cause you may see or stumble across something that no ones knows about. Were freaking human, we make mistakes, overlook things, and we make it work for the individual. I man if we just stayed with one "cookie cutter" thinking. We would all be driving Fords, and wouldn't have the other car companies. same for soft drinks, energy drinks, etc etc, you get the point. . Same thinking should be applied to constructing a magic deck. make it your own. use the combos, but make it your own. weather it works out good or bad, if it don't, pull the crap that not's working and find something that does work. Hone your deck, like a blade of a knife.
to me playstyle is the how and why you chose one card over another. how you work the deck, what card you picked combos with another card. etc etc etc. it's all part of custom building a deck.
jus sayin. play style is how you play. it's just a loose term. it's like comparing 2 different athletes that play the same game in the same position. say Micheal Jordan and Scott Pippin. same game. same position. but the playstyle is how they played the game. see where I'm coming from......
Chateau Chat I think you missed something somewhere, ... their is a meaning to a playstyle. its all part of the how and why you play the game. ..... you just over analyzing a concept that changed from player to player. its like chasing a ghost. its not a tangible thing.
Chateau Chat if that's what you think, I'm not here to change your narrow scope of things. you can play do that for yourself.
Chateau Chat I think your missing the point of playing Magic. for the fun man, win or lose, as long as you have fun, building your deck to fit your playstyle. the cards synergize with one another. But above it all have fun.
but ive been wrong before. but it seems like to me, that you cant see the forest for the trees.
+Dan Acton I'm sorry but who are you to define how myself and other players have fun playing the game. I netdeck because I don't enjoy the building process that much, but the fun part for me is playing out the game. I do have fun playing magic regardless if I built my own deck or not
Holy shit another Wisconsin boy. I have been lurking around your channel watching some of the old content since I got back into arena after a very long separation from the game. I dig your content and agree with pretty much everything you said.
Love this - your deck is only as good or bad as the environment (meta) in which it is played - and its so so true - even a big tournament is not a large enough sample size
A wise man once told me that the best chess player fears not the second best. He fears the worst player. He's never played that guy, and so he doesn't know his playstyle.
At my FNM there is not even a Standard section, it is no big pace either,
the only thing run actively is Draft, it is inexpensive, and doesn´t make people go netdecking
I've seen several of your videos, I'm trying to familiarize myself with magic before I attend my first FNM. I find them very informative, and they cmtfu. Grazie!
I was playing on Xmage a few days ago and the guy I got matched up against dropped a turn one Wandering Fumarole, I asked if he was running Grixis Control and in response he conceded the match.
DesolatorMagic you are awesome man! keep it up with the videos!
Video is out for 1 minute, has 3 dislikes...... ?
Just goes to show how some people have nothing better to do with their time
DesolatorMagic
Or people just didn’t like your video?
Red/Green energy is pretty good, only spent maybe 25.00 on it and it competes with current meta.
Hey mate, I legitimately enjoy your videos, thanks for the great content! In my LGS we have FNM Legacy, modern, and standard! My LGS has an event everyday at 7pm called "x" dailies (commander -> modern -> frontier -> modern -> legacy/modern/standard -> standard -> sunday(no events), and every single event has a 1st prize of cards valued at at least $100.
In this case do you still think net decking for a foil bob at a standard night is a bad thing? Just looking to see where you stand :)
Thanks for the vids once again.
Some kid at my LGS thinks he's a big shot because he always plays top tier decks in Modern but I always kick his ass regardless of what deck I'm piloting.
And on the other end you have this one guy who always comes to tournaments with obscur tier 3 decks and wrecks us because he's THAT much better than us all.
Seriously, that guy won a Vintage tournament playing his Modern Martyr Life because he forgot his deck boxes...
I love it when people say that Netdecking is a must, especially if they say what you were saying Tastysnackies was saying about "If you hate netdecking you just hate losing as much as you do". Virtually every week at my LGS I go 3-1 or 4-0 with a rogue deck. Jund Midrange, Naya Tokens, B/W Panharmonicon and this week with Jeskai Metallurgic Summonings. All you have to do is bother to learn the math, learn the deck, know what hands to keep, know the weaknesses of the deck and how to sideboard to remedy the weaknesses of a deck or give yourself more of an edge against the format. I want to play my own deck, with my own ideas, and to where I know why every single card I put in the deck is in there.
when i used to be able to play local i kitchen sinked a really janky deck that surprised me with it's performance during the theros-kahns standard cycle, when i was running it it had a 60-70% winrate as nobody i went against had a real counter to the stuff it did and majority of it's losses was from land issues while also being insanely fun.
some cards: Daring Thief, Felhide Spiritbinder, Scuttling Doom Engine, Spring Leaf Drum, Ornithopter, Scrapnel Blast, Twinflame, Clever Impersonator, Ensoul Artifact, Magma Jet, Chief Engineer, Darksteel Citadel then regular land cycle rares.
basically i would clone and steal things on the field and before the clones got exiled if an artifact i would shrapnel blast it, particularly the Scuttling doom engine for an additional 6 damage.
i have only been playing for a year or so when i made it so i'm sure it could of been made better, did have negate/cancel/lightning strike/circle of flame in the sideboard if i needed it, though the decks only main weakness was token decks and maybe some control as the stronger creatures my opponent put out the stronger my deck would get.
Personally, and I know this belief is not held by many around this channel (no shade), I think that net decking is a way to play magic that can be very different from other ways. When you are playing at the kitchen table or with friends, you should seriously brew. That is the time to have fun, and try out crazy ideas. FNM is more the time for hone your skills and level up your game, becoming a better magic player. Net decking can help do this by giving you access to a well tuned deck that will present more options in play and side boarding. TLDR: net decking can be good, but don't always do it
Oh, and something funny is that all net decks were at one point brews
Ry Clotfelter yea I agree with you but too many fnm players net decking generally just ruins it (unless you want to practice the mirror match)
24:00
I didn't even rant as hard as des and I got banned from my local mtg fb page. some people are way too sensitive for life, and many are net deckers. bottom line, net decking is like cheating on a test in school, looking over the smart kid's shoulder for the right answers. at least knowing what most people are playing makes it easier for me to design the decks I need to play. think for yourselves people, lead, don't follow
I netdeck on XMage to learn new archetypes. I usually pick an archetype that I've never played before and get on Tapped Out or MTG Goldfish. Once I play that for about a week or so and get the principles of the archetype down I'll create my own deck and then tweak it. It's helped me learn new archetypes and play styles, counter measures for them, and has shown me cards that I would never have found before.
How would you counter panharmonicon decks? The particular one I am having trouble with uses eldrazi displacer and reflector mage, with a bunch of other annoying stuff that won't let you do anything (thought knot). Even if they don't play panharmonicon the whole game (incredibly unlikely) they still will have a solid deck.
Any suggestions?
This is why many of us stopped playing, the current meta is skewed so much towards OP singles that you really don't stand much of a chance if you don't play a current net deck archetype.
When I was little me and my dad got into magic and I hated net decking. Thing I liked about magic was the strategic creativity
What do you think about net decking in long term formats like modern and Legacy, where the decks are stronger the meta has settled and the cost is much higher?
So I play modern. I play mono green eldrazi-tron but the deck list is pretty different compared to most. Would that be considered a net deck? (I won't stop playing it regardless. I honestly enjoy the way it play)
Honestly, I've found a difference between net-decker behavior based on my personal experience and it all depends on the mindset going in. If they thought a mechanic was cool, and are net-decking to get a good baseline for it, they will generally be pretty chill people. If they choose their deck solely based on what topped, then yeah, they're generally not fun people.
I play Pauper and the format is constantly changing, when i first got in the format i thought i could just throw a deck together and play, then i realized how little i knew about many of the better cards in the format, so I netdecked for the last year, now i have a firm grasp on the meta and can build and brew based on that knowledge, without it I was shooting a bb gun in the dark at a bear
Hello, Des, I recently saw your video recounting your illustrious careers, and you mentioned how your casino training helped you spot cheaters. I was wondering if you would be inclined to teach this to myself and your other subscribers.
At what point does a brew become a netdeck?
If i where to run Delirium and I don't want to net deck... Am I Not to add
Flayer, Liliana, Traverse, Ishkana, Grasp and Emrakul? (this makes up already 50% of the deck)
the trick is by bean creative you muss modify the deck when you play delirium play this card but not except to not being hard counterd by usual side board but when you can try to modify the deck so you have special counter i newer netdeck and probably never will cause i try to be original and second think when you play thinks like that obiosly you will play this staple card but try to modify the not staple to your need try to evolve your deck this is the point netdecking is nice to start but you muss modify it to be better
What's wrong with netdecking for someone like me who's not only new to the game but also doesn't have the time to put in hours of time making and testing a deck? Magic is a confusing game to begin with what's wrong with me starting with a deck that has been tried and true tested to be decent? I don't think homebrew is for everyone and if you want to netdeck do it. PLus I have already started tweaking my first deck (which is a netdeck) and I think I have made it better for my playstyle. I would love to homebrew but I have to learn the game first and have the time. If you have 20ish hours a week to sit down and build a deck and test it then good on you but not everyone has that luxury and just wants to play the game on Fridays.
On another point if you don't like net decking in standard then play draft more? Idk not being mean but just a thought I am horrible at draft but I still play it to try and get better.
Most people who hate netdeckers probably lose more than not and they can't get over it
I've just up and quit standard, I just draft so I don't have to deal with netdeckers
16 rounds, usually actually 1,000 to 1,300 players...
TWoo didnt build that alone, him and some people in the Mastermind were brewing it and he chose to play it.
if your deck is not winning, and is an "otherwise good deck" then adding removal or other control elements to slow your opponent down and increase your chances of winning, that is logical and a basic element of deckbuilding, adaptation.
What do you think of netdecking (in the traditional sense) in EDH? For example the "it's my turn for the rest of the game" Narset, Enlightened Master decks, Atraxa infect, Grave infinite combos, Derevi stax, and the like.
They're overpowered, not fun, and massively frowned upon by everyone in every play group. Commander is about building your own deck, plain and simple. You have to be a massive "have to win" douche to play a net deck in commander.
DesolatorMagic That is the truest thing I've ever heard you say.
DesolatorMagic Perfect answer, except two caveats: One, they rarely win because multiplayer groups hate them out of the game fast, and two, the decks are damned expensive compared to the ones that beat them to a pulp. Worst strategy ever in EDH is netdecking. Searching decklists for ideas is one thing, but you can't afford to netdeck.
What about in EDH tournaments? Are those super OP netdecks somewhat acceptable there or still no?
They are always acceptable, unless you don't want to be the target of some very serious in game and out game hate. People in commander tend to be some of the sorest losers of all time.
Honest question, Des. Roughly how large is the LGS you prefer to play at and what's the standard turnout usually like?
The one I attended for years had 50+ every week and my current one has like 14-ish
Wondering, where does the line go for something being a netdeck? I play Doran, it's basically junk, plays path, abrubtdecay etc, and I am not the first person to ever make that kind of deck. Is that a netdeck then? Or is netdecking only copy pasting the 8 best decks?
As far as I know, it's only considered netdecking if you essentially 100% copy one of the winning tournament decks.
I think net decking has its place in formats like edh, not all players have the time to dig through every set ever printed to find a handful of playable cards and build an edh deck out of, especially if you're wanting to do some really different edh decks like Mishra. It can be helpful, especially for new players, to get different ideas of what people are running with particular commanders.
That being said, I pride myself on always building from scratch and taking the time to sit down and actually dig through every set in order to build my decks, and to make non-conformitive decks. I have a non-combo jank-ramp maelstrom wanderer deck that focuses on the landfall mechanic, and I have lots of fun with it. I run cards like Guided Passage, which i think is fun. The deck has around a 60-75% win ratio, and I didn't use any online lists to make it, just time and trial and error, and I love that deck. Had it for over 6 years now and it's still evolving
so is looking up decks on websites like tapped out for inspiration a type of net decking? should i feel bad?
Net decking is for people who have no skill deck building, but still may be good players..
of course, any idiot with enough cash can buy any deck out there...that also takes no skill, but......some are not playing for fun, they are playing for $$$$ , and netdecking at a tournament does give you a good chance of winning something if you suck at deck building.
I'm very good at deck building, but never net decked , mainly cause I only play with decks I have built, it's so much fun beating someone with a deck they never seen or never thought of, and have no defense against...
of course even to build your own deck, to compete you need to spend some $$$$, how much depends on what deck you want to build.
I do it because the deck is fun and I have a good chance at packs. I use to build my own decks but net decking became easier and I went from going average 3-1 to 4-0 soooooo.....
I decided to take a stand on this by going to a crowded public place and shouting "KILL ALL NETDECKERS". Quite a people took issue with it. In particular, I learned that African American gentlemen are apparently VERY passionate about Magic.
85% of my lgs plays some form of blue/white control. this week I brought ur gravity bomb deck, and it turns out tapping spell queller doesn't help me.... what deck should I bring to help beat that.
Blue counterspell mass bounce board wipe with gigantic creatures
DesolatorMagic i thought maybe build something around the lines of your Mr.Nibbles deck, but add in 4-6 counter spells. would that work?
Yugioh literally is a Netdeckers dreamscape. Mostly because they are more against creativity then netdeckers in other games.
I mean, the amount of reliance on archetypes means netdecking isn't necessary since you just choose an archetype and the deck makes itself.
NuclearUnicorn7 That is true. But people from what I've seen have been so opposed to creativity.
Matt Spell lol
Matt Spell your right. people today want huge rewards for as little effort as possible.
me, I've never net decked, mainly because I build decks around my own ideas, lol, to me building a deck is as fun as playing.
same,
I still remember how nice the dudes at my LGS were to little 14 year old me playing at FNM. Somehow i lucked out with gaming stores i guess cause while now i know i was terrible at making decks since it essentially was me putting cards i liked together and what not i tended to not be completly crushed and win a few games. Then one of the guys is like hey why don't i help you figure out a deck and i spent like 30-50 bucks on cards and got together a white weenie deck that revolved around some of the allies from old zendikar and some cheap flyers to just rush down and having Brave the Elements to help finish the game.
To what degree can I net deck? My arena deck is Helios because I watched your video. I don't have the money to buy packs.
i play modern only because its what i was first introduced to, and watch his vids for fun. i get so excited when you talk about modern and then you on it and i go cry some more lol.
I’m a relatively new player. I played before but I’m just getting back into it I’ve met decked budget decks on RUclips then added my own cards to upgrade them. Now I’ve been building my own decks which are doing really well. Net decking helped my deck building skills believe it or not. But then again I was net decking 50-100 commander decks not 800-1200$ decks. I learned a great deal about deck building from upgrading the decks. I think net decking has its place in magic
i think the only time i looked up decks online was to look up what other people had done just to get a few ideas and see if i'd missed any good cards. i think the last time i did that was to look up decks using all 3 modules and i found basically nothing :/
I completely agree with this video. I have my own rashmi bant deck that I did side events just this weekend in Louisville grand Prix and demolished in standard. no one knew how to play against it and had not side board cards for me . About 65$ because lands and spell queller.
I don't care too much if someone decides to net deck. I just do my own thing.
Honestly, your deck is your tool as much as it is an extension of you personally (as a Planeswalker, if you wanna get technical with the lore and the premise of the game). No OP Net Deck is truly unbeatable, just as no home brew is automatically out of the running; what truly matters is how well a player knows his deck, and which player can take the fullest advantage of what their deck decides to give them in any situation.
Yes, the idea of Net Decking is to negate some portion of the skill gap between players, but even the mightiest of decks can fall to a Pauper's deck made of nothing but commons and uncommons if the player knows how to max out its potential and can think on the fly- that was what I learned when I first tried MTG, and it remains true to this day (mostly because I started around the Tarkir block, when we started seeing these stupidly OP decks popping up)...
But that's like, my opinion, man. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter
A good point that I think you missed is just after rotation the tournament winning decks are often very different from at the end of the season
well i take an existing deck then build up on it does that count as net decking?
and this is why I avoid standard, I've met a netdecker, I can't stand him and I'd hate to meet even more, I play for fun, not to be competitive, it's why I stick to playing commander with my group of friends, I don't even play commander at my local game store's game nights for it because I know there will be people who netdeck, it's much more rewarding to build a deck myself and get a win with it, I feel like I'm improving as a player and deck builder that way
Is it net decking to go online see how someone else approached a certain deck idea? If you do a lot of research online about what a deck archetype plays you might end up with a very closely related deck to one that you saw online. Is net-decking just copying top tournament results, where is the line?
I consider myself a fairly new player (been playing Magic for about a year-and-a-half) and the thing I find most fun about this game is building my own decks. But I've also found that when I play my decks I often get slaughtered, especially when I was really new to it. It's taken me a long time to understand how to build a good deck and build up my playing skills and confidence, and yet I know I still have a lot to learn. So I don't think it's so bad if newer players copy and play top decks to learn how a good deck functions and how to play in general. If a newer player gets slaughtered every time they play Magic because they've been shamed for copying online deck lists, then they probably won't stick around for long. But, yeah, I find it hard to imagine being a really experienced player who only copies the "best" deck lists. That's no fun. The best part of the game is coming up with something of your own that can beat the best decks.
Des I like to debate with u (cuz it's fun and ur smart) but in this case....
PREACH DES PREACH!!!!!
Dude, even if what you say if correct, this isn't the best way to go about it. If anything it isn't people net decking that ruins the game, it's people cheating or people complaining about it. And the idea that a deck of cards determines what type of person you are is a little farfetched to me. And dude, just because your local gaming area is filled with shitty people doesn't mean anyone else who has a pretty good community is the exception it just means that they don't have a bunch of assholes.
Here is a question for you Desolator, what if someone grabs a decklist of an established deck in the current meta that they actually have fun with? That they like playing the deck for more reasons then just winning. For example, I am building into Green Red Energy cause I like how the deck runs and I think energy is a cool mechanic that I want to try out plus the deck fits into a playstyle I am the most comfortable with playing. And even if I wasn't a huge fan of net decking that doesn't I am going to demonize all players who do net deck.
I am sick of random causes like this that just demonizes a whole group based on the actions of a few. I think the only real reason people get mad at decks they can't beat is because they never bother to prepare for them. This has nothing to do with whether you are net decking or brewing your own deck, if you don't prepare for what's common place at your store then of course you're going to lose often. Hell I'm still learning how to properly sideboard and prepare for anything.
That is all I'm going to say on the subject. I'm sorry for anyone else reading if this is just rambling on with no meaning. Though based on what I have heard about this guy I'm not sure this comment is going to stay long enough for anybody to read it.
Unfortunately, I have never been a good deck builder. If I want to stand a chance I need to at least netdeck to give me a framework. Now, I will play test and make adjustments to attempt to strengthen the deck but building a deck from the ground up has never worked for me in the past. I want to be able to but the biggest obstacles are time needed to do extensive play testing and the knowledge of all of the options, especially in formats with large pools of cards like Modern.
So would you be against me taking some of your decklists for xmage and building them?
I like the part Des says that he will show no mercy and will demolish his opponent XD
I net decked once mainly because I felt lazy, had the cards and the deck actually looked fun (which it was). other than that, i always brewed my own decks (many tomes, 2- 3 weeks later a net deck would emerge that was almost a carbon copy, but what can you do. the one thing about what I would that was expensive is I would try to get all the good mana fixing lands as fast as possible. this would allow me to play what I wanted.
all this being said, I had a match win percentage of around 66%. this was between a number of lgs. I don't play standard any more mainly because I am married, have a little daughter and simply don't have time any more to keep up.
but trav also said netdecking is an important part of becoming a better player to learn how they work cause theres no way you could main and side board for all of the meta at a competitive event
My local game store is located in Washington state and our areas share different political views and for modern at least people use net decks but they aren't rude like net deckers in your area. There aren't net deckers they just don't know how to build decks that aren't already built. Then recently one magic player at or store who was the most experienced, but had played long enough to get a grasp on the game brought a modern shaman deck and kicked everyone's butt. Everyone there was so confused because they thought a neck deck was the best. We all learned a valuable lesson or the smart ones did
Yay, C&C Generals! My favourite entry in the series. Red Alert comes in second, tho.
Also, 666th like. Hehe.
Pity it wasn't in any of the LGS's from hell videos.
whats really nice about my lgs is that nobody net decks (in standard) and everyone has actually built their deck by themselves
I'll be honest with you. I netdeck. Why? Money. Usually I build my own deck and then, BAM 400 euro. Guess what, Im not buying that, unless im certain it works so instead of buying 400e worth cards that wont work at all, I rather look up decent deck that is similar to the one I made up (at least in playstyle) and I go with it. Sure once I dont have to buy cards into my decks, I will gladly play my own decks, but you know, I dont want to buy 4 Lilianas just to try my own deck that wont work anyway....
personally, the only reason I see for net decking is if you're new to the game and dont understand the Meta in magic, whats good whats not, how to build a deck that works, then I would look up some winning decks and see what those look like, they wont be perfect no matter what but at least it gives you some insight as to how a solid deck is built
All these kids playing turn-1 win decks with cards they fully foiled for $2,200 on the internet wondering why no one wants to play a casual game with them at the local game shop in the comments whining about how netdecks are the best and *everyone has to play netdecks because they are the best*
You want to know HOW those netdecks were created? By someone having a *new* idea and making a *new* deck and playing that *new* deck. What these people are saying is they are so stupid that they don't think they can build a counter deck to counter their friends.
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I played someone who was green/white who would green tutor into Primordial Hydra with a bunch of white control to pacifism or exile any creature... while I was playing some equipment thing with no real anti-enchantments.
And guess what, I got frustrated with it and built a counter deck. I started running red/blue "gain control of target permanent."
So he got frustrated and switched to Blue Jace mill.
So I got frustrated switched to Black/red zombie+flashback.
So he switched to mono blue unblockables+counterspells.
So I switched to token+lifegain overrun.
So he switched to infect unblockables.
So I switched to Green/White Melira with first strikers and enchants.
And on and on and on...
Any netdecker who tried to play again my friend and I would quickly get frustrated as we would both build a deck specifically to counter them. Obviously this doesn't speak to tryhards who do nothing but competitions, but anyone who searches "easiest way to win in magic" isn't someone who is having fun.
Yes, you can copy a deck and still have fun with it, and you can create a completely new deck and be a tryhard... but most of these people aren't smart enough, or don't *want* to learn how to play the game, so they copy someone else who did well without even a single idea of WHY the deck is good...
I love net deckers because without them I'd have no one to lord my knowledge of how powerful a card is and how it should be played in competitive but the pros haven't got around to testing it
I've been playing G/B delirium for about 6 months now, since it was popularized in soi standard. I've been playing death's shadow zoo in modern for about 7-8 months as well. I'm building grixis Delver in modern right now, just bought my playset of Snap daddies for that. I use those in every tournament I play. Hell I even play derevi in commander, which is a top deck there. So that makes me everything you hate about magic. But I also play fun decks when I'm not playing otherwise. I still play u/r fevered visions and I still have g/b rites built. But neither of those decks compete in the current meta of standard. G/B delirium does. Because I "netdeck" doesn't make me a bad person, and I'm not ruining magic. I just like winning my fnm's and local tournaments.
Such a logical and thought out opinion. No wonder people hate you. :P
(jk love your channel!)
this is why I play edh
There are EDH net decks that win on turn 1
DesolatorMagic Yes, but they are easily answered and are glass cannons. Many edh decks are built to combat these decks. Also, the fastest edh decks win t2, and aren't that bad. Prossh EDH can stop these decks with interaction and then win itself.
In duel commander no deck can win on turn one because all the fast mana is banned except for like chrome mox, also all of the strongest tutors are banned. The only turn 1 combos in multipla
yer require at least 4 specific cards in the opener to win. Only one I can think of at the moment is; entomb + dark
ritual + animate dead + a dual land that doesnt come in tapped + Grenzo Dungeon Warden.
Everyone is ready for net-decks. EVERYONE. Whatever it does, everyone will be hating on it.
Yes, someone notices vampires
I don't think people should bring net decks to the FNM level. However I think there is a place for net decks and grand prix and pro tours.
Except bringing net decks to the pro tour is how you get eliminated on day 1 of the qualifier. As Des said, the people that are going to eventually win a major tournament in any game, not just magic, have to make meta calls, and when net decks are a large chunk of the meta, pros will build to crush them.
Example: In D&D Minis, shortly before the game's death, at the championship tournament at Gen Con, a friend of mine from a previous game brought a warband that had matchups where it would simply auto-lose, since he was relying on people not running the counter because people wouldn't run his band because there was a hard counter. He did very well in that tournament. Exactly one person there anticipated that people would do this, but no one else brought the formerly OP-as-shit band that now had a hard counter, which meant that the friend never went up against the guy with the counter and so won all his matches in the Swiss rounds. ALL of them. All because he correctly predicted the meta. If he had been wrong, he would have been crushed. He was right.
Pretty sad. There’s literally majority net decks every format I sit in on now. The only exception is draft.
I'd only net deck if I'm new to a particular format and I don't know how to build a deck for said format then I would build those decks and upgrade accordingly once I'm used to the format.
Watching this video, I was sitting on the couch building some goofy energy fabrication deck for fun
what they are purposing that sounds like vintage oddly and some legacy decks a deck that just locks a player so out of the game they give up playing
"The winner can't be the best" you are not wrong but it is more about being consistent than being the best deck. Consistence is a great factor on winning a lot of tournements so if the same deck is aways topping the tournements then it creates an argument for they to be the best kind of deck for a tournment. While one tournment is not enough 5 one after the other then it becomes statistically relevant.
"Using the same deck as the last winner of the tournment puts you in a disavantage" that is called "meta", your sideboard is for that. Your exemple of having a deck that attacks some weakness in the top decks does not actually put you in an advantage as it depends on being matched against those decks and it is likely their decks are more consistent than yours so you may win the first game because of the surprise factor and then get overrun in the next two after boarding.
"the surprose factor" is a thing to have but not one to rely on. I have won with a humans revive deck when it was not meta but it was making tops when I got the list. After it became popular it stopped winning because people would side against it, that's the meta and it changes and you change with it and choose the next deck to use.
For the third point everyone I know that plays magic netdecks. They are all friendly and know that knowledge about the game is as important as the consistency of the deck.
I have never played or against a net deck (maybe because I play stupid decks and come last XD), and i am trying to start building better decks, but I like playing with control or big stomp decks and I can't because everyone I play against have emerge and r/w vehicle decks and it sucks. I don't know what to play...
If i take "top tier" decks and change them a bit is that still net decking
This is a literal pile of horseshit. You're effectively saying "you look online, find the best cards to put in a GB delirium deck, and throw it together, that's not netdecking. But if you look online, find the best cards to put in GB delirium and throw it together, that's netdecking."
Is the real difference using "ctrl + c, ctrl + v" instead of typing the card names yourself? Is it netdecking if you just LOOK at the list, memorize it and then build it? you didn't copy-paste, right?
Alex tf i change on average I would say at least 15 cards so don't come at me with that bullshit
should have been more clear, that message was intended for tammas dexter, not you.
My bad
Oh my God, someone other than me still plays Generals? awesome!
It's weird why this video has this many dislikes, I actually agree with Des on this issue, the recent tournament winner *isn't* the "best" deck, but it will be the most popular deck afterward, not the best. Speaking of underrated cards, Metallurgic Summonings is pretty decent. but it's almost worthless now.
Can I net deck dank combos?
Like modern bees combo.
I actually agree with just about all of your logic and reasoning, but there has to be some variable that isnt being taken into account, because what your saying is that if you brew and build to beat the top net decks your more likely to win. And what i dont understand is why are 90% of the pro's who have put in hours and hours of playtesting doing the exact opposite and just running the top 3 netdecks? I mean were dealing with a fairly smart group of people. if it was as simple as build against the top netdecks and win wouldn't they be doing it? especially if theres monetary gain? Or am i just giving the intelligence of the competitive scene to much credit?
Good video! Opened my eyes to some more reasons not to netdeck
I think the existence of net decking is just plain bad for the game. Deckbuilding is a very important part of winning with any type of deck, and removing that from a large part of the meta is that it reduces design space for R&D. If a ridiculous combo requires a finely crafted deck for it to work somewhat consistently, which ruins the meta if everyone could just look up the optimal decklist. Essentially, netdecking ruins the fun of combo decks.
I mostly net decided, but I like fringe decks and play for fun. I suck at deck building, I've taken a few I've made and get stomped. I'm running mono red prison in modern and going goblins in standard
I’m only a little into this video so perhaps you address this but whatever, Net decking is good for newer players as it teaches how things work while allowing them to win a few matches in the learning process.I started with net decks and now i “ graduated” to brewing and have the same win ratio as I did.
Lmao I didn't actually expect the net deckers to come out of their crevices to dislike this video.
Amazing I looked down at my phone and read net decking then read recommended for you
I'd say that I'm not a terrible person and I kind of netdeck, it's plain and simple, I terribly suck at deck building and I don't play enough and follow the meta enough to build deck that does something. Although I'm kind of getting better at it and I want to get better!
I buy a budget net deck then keep modifying it but I also play modern soo..I'm not about winning it's about fun
The first and official magic tournament that I've won was a draft with 9 people
Here is something funny and this is an EDH story...so this one person brings in this stupidly consistent Jeleva doomsday deck and is constantly tutoring, I got tired and built a deck SPECIFICALLY designed to punish players for tutoring or hell shuffling their decks, then throw in a lot of cards that causes them to shuffle their decks, eventually when I end up taking away their winning combo, they go ape-shit and just rage quits...Point is..Netdecking is not good at the same time, it is good because you know what to expect
Desolator, I am the only one who thinks that aether revolt is broken at my LGS and also the only one who thinks it's a problem.
I wonder how old ur fan base is are they the new player or older player
You can't have one without the other. You should be looking at other decks and you should be building your own, that's what makes a great player. Thats just dumb, netdecking all the time. How are you going to grow as a player if you don't gain experience at building competitive decks of your own? Those new decks had to be built by someone. The inverse is true also, you should also look at other decks to see what works good in competitive and the history/meta of it.
I play magic for the creativity and social interaction. Why play magic only to win and ignore half of each new set?
I also suspect that net deckers aren't as common as Desolator thinks.
Net decks have their place. They are great for testing your deck against. I might play a deck based off someone else's idea but I make it my own.
Des here is my problem. I say oh I just won fnm with a rogue deck that was worth oh wait... $100. Thanks net decks for just so happening to use a few of the same cards I use.
As I relatively new player, net deckers bragging, scares the shit out of me.