Episode 8 - The Abyss of Life | FX's Shōgun: The Official Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 7 апр 2024
- A question of loyalty. Host Emily Yoshida and guests break down episode 8 of FX’s Shōgun. Featuring showrunner Justin Marks, production designer Helen Jarvis, historian Frederick Cryns, and director Emmanuel Osei-Kuffour. Creators and experts deep-dive into the intricacies of the tea ceremony, the fates of the real-life shipwrecked sailors, and the evolution of a region that would become Tokyo.
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#Shogun #FX
Join host and staff writer Emily Yoshida as she sits down with the creators, cast, and crew that brought Sengoku Period Japan to life. In this exclusive companion podcast, each episode will break down the twists and turns of the plot, the top-of-the-line craft behind the scenes, and the real-life history that informed it all.
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Episode 8 - The Abyss of Life | FX's Shōgun: The Official Podcast
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Anyone else going to watch the episode again after hearing the podcast? 👀
🫢🫢
Already have. 3 times since then. 😭
I rewatched Episode 8 three times hoping to get it out of my system, but I still can’t stop thinking about the magnificence of it. And there’s two episodes left! I’ll be completely spent when this show is finished!
please tell me the song title of buntaro's tea making scene
The scene of Hiromatsu Seppuku is a master piece. There aren’t many shows or movies than can do this. It’s definitely up there with Tyrions Trial scene in GoT.
👌🤧🥺
Oh my god I did not expect to cry while watching Shogun. Hiromatsu was my favourite character. . .
На русском фильм .
I just got done crying watching this episode was not expecting to feel the emotions I felt seeing Hiromatsu sacrifice himself. I thought Torranaga was going to stop him
why are my comments auto removed or hidden
just bawled like a little girl for a few hours
easy fix, stop watching :p
We all need a friend like Hiromatsu! 😭
to commit seppuku when you don't wanna do something? got it.
@@fredvasquez4201he knew it was part of the plan
@@crimnvL I know, I tried to be funny but it didn't work =/
😭🥺💔😭🥺
This was just incredible. A show like Shōgun is the perfect example of why I absolutely love TV. This show is a masterpiece.
test
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Hiromatsu surely made this episode memorable. Havent cried for a character in a while.
Also, another “F” for the First Fujiless episode.🥺🥺🥺
there will be more
I know, there was one scene where Mariko was seen from the back and I momentarily thought it was Fumi. Definitely missed her, but this was a really good episode to be fair.
I missed her too
@@lyrilljackson I won’t be surprised. Given that the focus would be the war now, I would rather that she is Safely out of harm’s way.
Protect Fuji-sama. 🥺🥺🥺
@@khaii13 she's got guns and spears. she's good
this show is so beyond incredible. i hope they win any and all awards the writers, cast, and crew all put so much effort in. truly a masterpiece
This might be the best thing ever made for TV. Congratulations to the crew and cast.
🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢
Did you watch the 80s series 🤔
@@geelove4974 are you a hat salesman or something?
"You will know what it is to be denied" reference to Mariko
Trolled twice in one episode. OUCH!
@@JynxedKoma😂
And what he actually says in Japanese is "You will know what it is to be denied death" specifically, which is even more explicit.
@@gerrittlighthart What are you Japanese or something?
Another sad and beautiful scene is the tea ceremony🥲
A drop of water is on the verge of falling from a leaf. The literal translation of the hanging scroll, 'Green willows are good, red flowers are good,' represents the preference to accept things as they are.
Buntaro set up the tearoom with his thoughts while he was on the verge of death. Mariko spotted the hanging scroll and the vase, and she realized his thoughts, so Mariko began a poem that focused on the scent of a plum that had been detached from its flower.
The scent of flowers has been used for a long time in love poetry. The seasonal word plays a significant role in Japanese poetry. The plum is a sign of a season that was earlier and not the one Buntaro selected for the interior.
Maybe Mariko compared her love to the scent of a plum. It may drift through her eightfold fence, where she accepted Blackthorn. I suppose she was telling her husband, 'It is not you who respects and loves me as I am.'
wow great analysis thank you!
@@rachiejw I'm glad you enjoyed my interpretation. The rule is that a poem must consist of 31 syllables. (5+7+5+7+7=31)
Short sentences can be interpreted in various ways.
This episode exceeded all expectations and a masterpiece all on its own! We still have 2 episodes left, tears poured out like flash flood with Hiromatsu scene, i didnt expect i would cry like that, it didnt even let you rest your eyes after that scene. Bravo!
😭😭😭💔💔😭😭😭💔💔
@@stevebubbie1126it's sad to hear that you can appreciate the beauty of that scene because of your favoritism for other adaptions
I cried at the tea ceremony. The symbolism
What symbolism , can you elaborate what you've seen that couldn't meet the eye?
I'm also curious to know what meaning you found in the scene. It was very evocative!
@@kyriv4661 Although the scene was about a husband making tea for his wife, the room was very sterile and empty and the characters were seperate from each other. I think it symbolises their marriage, Buntaro loves her but treats her poorly because of his sense of honor and disgust he holds for her lineage. As a result, Mariko has a house to live in and tea to drink, but it lacks the warmth of love that should be present in a marriage.
Very well observed!@@basslightyeah
❤️🥺🤧🤧
That scene the raining water and the whole atmhosphere of the scene, also the incredible acting from both actor when they staring each other, no words but the expression and the eyes are incredible
The first episode without Fuji. My suffering was immeasurable.
And your day was ruined?
@@TheParallel25 He knows. The saying usually is ''My suffering is immeasurable, and my day is ruined''
@@TheParallel25 He merely continued the joke dude... chill
Who is Fuji?
@@Pedant_PatrolBlackthorne’s consort.
That was wild. In 2023 The Last Of Us Episode 3, in my humble opinion, was episode of the year. This Year it's Shogun Episode 8.
Agree ❤❤❤ The last of us Episode 3 amazing i cry a Lot 😭🥺❤️❤️❤️ bill and Frank
Tonight episode 8 shogun amazing 😭🥺❤️😭💔💔💔
いやぁ、、、、第８話、すごかったわ。残り３話でどう話を畳むかと思いきや、ネタバレになるから何とも言えないが、すごく迫力というか、ゾワっとしたわ。
I see the vision! I had faith no matter what that it would deliver that same message and feeling of the book. I love it. As a separate thing then the book or 1980s original. Listening to the podcast after the episodes has done so much to let you in on what the thinking and process is. These need to be watched by anyone who loves the books or original. This really lets you know the level of respect they have for the original work. I respect the changes and reasons for them. It makes sense and lets you know they want a historical accurate representation of Japan and how things might have worked in a more realistic way. Anjin isn’t some white knight that comes to save the day, he doesn’t magically learn and feel so much apart of the culture so fast. It’s a weird long process. Ups and downs. It’s hard to accept fate. I love this show. Excuse me for this long comment. Just felt some people who are negative need to see this so they can understand this isn’t a bad show in anyway. Beyond the original story these are amazing actors and the shots are gorgeous, this story is awesome too. They all have the same end point just different ways of getting there.
"Lord! Your vassal dies in vain!"
*"Then die."*
😯
Wow........just, wow!!
Can't wait to discuss this one with everyone Wednesday night!
Extraordinary episode, it is a masterpiece. I absolutely loved it.
This is the best series since Game of Thrones. So emotional, unpredictable and very mind stimulating. Thanks a lot. Hiroyuki Sanada and the writers, other producers and the full cast for this amazing work. This is what real TV feels like. Shout Out to James Clavell also for the original story. R.I.P Hiromatsu and Nagakado. Hee! Hee!! Ho!!!
I'm absolutely obsessed with this show
Loved the evolution of Blackthorn. He views his crew members as bariatric...loud, rude, smelly and unrefined. Now he is more appreciative the Asian way of life. He is also beginning to appreciate the power of what is "unsaid" as opposed to him voicing everything that crosses his mind. Miroko told him to not be fooled by the smiles/good manners extended to him. He is learning as the uncle/nephew team that pissed on him and wanted to boil him alive, now want to align with him in battle. Blackthorn is not fooled.
Hiromatsu was man's man
In the original series, vasco rodrigues told Blackthorne that if a samurai' lord told him to die, he would do so instantly
Hiromatsu wasted no time dying for Toranaga's plan
You couldnt asked for more noble warrior and even greater friend
Am sorry but senguko period samurai had no regard for the preciousness of human life.
Lol the preciousness of human life, that’s rich! We are animals. No different from in the wild. Just take a look at the world and the state it’s in. Humans are supremely flawed by greed, power and riches. Come join reality!
Thank goodness, in the real life story of Shogun, Hiromatsu didn't die but lived to see the Shogun rule.
😭😭💔😭😭💔💔
LOYALTY
People can belong into societies they weren’t born into. I’ve seen it done wit people moving to my country, learning the language, taking part of local customs, becoming a citizen, marring people from the area, joining defence units, and even yes, adopting the mindset of the area. William Adams, the historical person I believe did this. If this were not possible then or now, then our future will not be bright.
You missed the point. Especially in Japanese society, it doesn't matter how much you try to integrate and how much you you are accepted by those around you, there will always be a barrier simply because you weren't born there.
Even today, fourth generation born Korean immigrants are still not considered "Japanese"
@@RottingDragon and somehow ms japan was an ethnic ukranian this year, until she resigned in scandal. that being said, this notion of ethnicity being a driving factor of 'belonging' in a national context applies to probably every country in the world, save one... or at least that what we would like to believe in the US.
That's what you think, but maybe a majority of the natives (for lack of a better word) don't believe that.
Masterwork 🌹 Great Cast
Great episode but I feel for the book readers who were expecting Blackthorne and Mariko's relationship be more than what it is at this point.
Maybe I just enjoy tragedies more, but I feel like this has been a more enjoyable ride. My only fear is that this Mariko won't be able to enjoy a moment of true happiness. A moment of taking SOME agency in her life and allowing herself to be happy & realize that life can be beautiful & joyful.
This series has shown how painful her life has been. The moments of joy with her son always quickly spoiled by Buntaro. The slightest taste of true love quickly taken away by Buntaro's return. I just want her to be able to have one decent moment of happiness that she can take with her to face her fate.
I do feel a little confident that this will be the case. Her spelling it out to Buntaro does seem like the step she HAD to take in order to gain some agency about her own life. But still....the show could go in a full-blown tragedy.
I hope they don't. Cause I do feel like many Japanese women to this day can relate to Mariko. Yes, they have many more freedoms than Mariko could ever envision but still in many ways society dictates what & who they should be instead of fully being themselves. If they want to have pink hair they should be able to have it without being looked down upon. If they want to have tattoos they should be able to have tattoos without being banned from certain places. They should be free to express their individuality.
So hopefully the show does give Mariko that moment. And it would be so much more powerful and meaningful than the previous mini-series and book.
Amazing show ❤️👌👌❤️❤️❤️
I will watch this a second time
This eposide was brilliant! You see 8 fold fence and a fist broken at the Wrist. Toranaga is fooling everyone except those who really know him. Lots of sacrifices! Myriko finally drew her line in the sand with her husband...her fence is down! The head courtesan who has divinity gifts, lets us know that Toranaga will win, cause she is designing her Willow village that he promised upon his take-over.
I Kinda knew that Nagakado’s death bought time for Toranaga… but now, after just watching episode 8, the question is this for us fans: did Toranaga order his son to die? Or is he capitalising on the death after the fact? Especially after hearing him say to Mariko “Osaka must believe that the defeat is real”?
Also “F” for Hiromatsu-dono. A real ride or die.
Nagakado's death was an accident and wasn't apart of the plan, but his death gave Toronaga extra time to scheme. Hiromatsu on the other hand was part of the plan, his death also gave Toronaga extra time and as Toronaga said his defeat had to be convincing.
What happened to Saeki? Toronaga’s brother? Did he die?
@@khanivy He and along with his army was shown to be guarding the outskirts of Edo
@@khanivy His army, and probably him, is encamped in Edo. I need to rewatch to check if he was even present in the Funeral.
@@khaii13 there is a scene of him lying in a bed and they place a sword on his chest thus was confusing
my favorite series right now ⚔🎎💯💥💫🤟🤘👏🌠✨♠
Does anybody know if there are more cast interviews with English subtitles available? I have tried to watch Japanese interviews with automatic captions in English, German, Russian and in my native language, but there are parts of the translations that don't make much sense.
I'm confusedasto where Toronaga's brother is(he does remind me of Scar from Lion King)
Yabushige and Blackthrone alliance, didn't see that coming, but at the same time, I can't blame Yabushige for declining to go to Osake, especially since, Ishido, sent his messenger head, back too him in a box
Loyalty is often what the west think it what Asians adhere to. Most of the time it is the concept of duty that most bounded to. The term samurai means "to serve".
Loyalty and duty are similar if not almost synonymons
Is the background music for this podcast on the soundtrack??
日本人的にここまで細部にこだわってきれると嬉しい
Hiromatsu knew what the plan was what a sacrifice.
広松と虎永の掛け合いがとても良かった。
特に広松の「忠義」「決死の覚悟」「大義ある死」がとても良かった
虎永が切腹を止めたのに広松が此処で切腹をすることはこれからの戦いに重要なんだと虎長を嗜めて切腹を促し苦渋の決断で虎永が広松に切腹を命じた。しかも広松は死の直前まで孤高の戦いに身を置かなければならない主を案じて自分の息子に最後まで主を信用して支えになるように言い聞かせた。これ以上の忠義はない。
I hope you'll make use of all those costume, sets, writers and production team when the show is over...
best show since GoT season 1-5 n it's historical based
yes! i really enjoyed this run! maybe not on par as got 1-4 but its the best in recent times
"SHOW GUN"
😵💫
Toda Hiromatsu😢🙏🏻
🤧🥺😭💔💔😭💔💔
so what does the scroll on the wall in the tea room say?
『柳緑花紅』The willows are green, the flowers are crimson. 『The truth is as it is, as they are.』
@@kengo7273 thank you
The writers should have chatted with more people with the lived experience of moving and living permanently in another country. You feel like a foreigner in your birth country and not quite fully accepted in your new one but it is your home. It is where you find mroe comfort and you don’t recognise the person form before.
Hiromatsu 😢
Im putting shogun next to game of thrones as overall best fantasy series
1. If it ends well, it'll be better than GoT!
2. I wouldn't label historical fiction as "fantasy" 😄
This is already way beyond GoT due to that botched ending.
This show will probably be top 10 or 15 best shows of all time for me. That said, it is a shame that the showrunners couldn't do as much research on reading Clavell's book as they did on history. They introduced a venality and a colonial mindset and selfishness that was not present in the Blackthorne of the book or at the very least was something that Blackthorne shed half-way through the book. I have always said that it was Mariko that was the real hero of the book. I do not mind at all the emphasis on the Japanese characters and story and I find them most enjoyable and worthy of that focus, but they've done the character of Blackthorne dirty. I find it interesting the showrunner feels that nobody can ever adapt to a new culture they weren't born to and that acceptance and adaptation is the very heart of the story of Blackthorne's story arc. I'm guessing none of them have tried or in the case of Blackthorne, been forced to out of necessity and then by choice and matter of will. The real world inspiration of Blackthorne did exactly this. Again I don't pretend that Blackthorne was the hero of the book. He was nothing like a White Savior. He didn't save anybody. He didn't make Japan better by being there. But yes, he followed the Stranger in a Strange Land trope. The beauty of Blackthorne's story in Clavell's novel was that he did in the end, become truly accepting of the fate that brought him to Japan and that forced him to stay there. He accepted that fate and he chose to live by Japanese rules. Thats all they needed to do with Blackthorne. There's a nobility in that storyarc that the showrunners have apparently decided to deny him and that's a shame.
You have to remember that Blackthorne is a straight white man and this show was written for 'modern' audiences.
Well you can see how much of a good job they did with Mariko's funeral in the first series.
So different from the 80s version where Blackthorn is not really the center of the story. Kind of small part of the bigger picture.
Hiw did toranaga know anjin will go to yabu?
Because that was Toranaga's plan, which he ordered Anjin to carry out.
@@mamorintanwho is yashuhari
@@kyriv4661
sorry. it's Anjin not yasuhari.
Humans are sometimes predictable if you know the types
@@mamorintan Is there any evidence that Toranaga ordered Anjin to do this? To me, it seemed more like he understood Blackthorne & Yabushige well enough to know this would happen.
Toranaga is cooold as ice!!! I wonder if tokugawa was ruthless like this, hiramatsu died pointlessly, i don’t know why japanese people are quick to kill themselves, and the fact that incidents like this really happened makes it more disturbing, great episode though.
Then you didn’t pay attention. His death was far from pointless.
Historically, for the audience and the people who didn't live in Sengoku-Edo era you would think of it at a glance as something pointless, but before for them dying for their Lord to ensure victory it isn't. Series wise Hiro's death was also not pointless.
Tokugawa was even more ruthless. A cruel and treacherous opportunist. Toranaga is a bit more sympathetic.
@@KK-fi6msall the movies I’ve watched about the edo period portrayed the tokugawa as tyrants, it was a time of peace but great oppression.
It wasn't anywhere near pointless. It was just unnecessary and an unexpected playing out of events after his other generals were planning to commit seppuku--of which Hiro instead, chose to spare Toranaga losing by doing it in their stead. One sacrifice for the survival of the many.
I had to go back and listen again to the writer speaking about Blackthorne's 'colonial impulses,' because wasn't it in an earlier episode that Toranaga and the dying Taiko reminisced about the invasion of Korea? Wasn't that colonialist, too? Did they forget that the Japanese invaded the independent Ryukyu Kingdom in 1609? Or that the Japanese colonized the Ainu people of northern Honshu and Hokkaido?
Perhaps I've missed something, but I can't help thinking this all a bit hypocritical. Apparently, though, in the writer's Hollywood bubble only straight white men can have colonialist impulses. After all, don't straight white men 'have all the power?'
It's all rather cringe, isn't it? It's especially hypocritical as if there's one nation that hasn't done enough to look at its past, it's Japan.
It does not seem to me that this was a woke insert. Of course the Hollywood bubble has a bias and puts political messages down our throats. However, I think in this specific case we have to consider two things.
One is that stating the Blackthorne's colonial actions doesn't mean that other nations didn't act the same way.
We also have to look back at all the previous episodes of the show and the podcast, so we won't see any lecture from the cast or the producers.
Maybe we can also think that the writer was trying to say that Blackthorne was not a pawn in the game. His so called colonialism would refer to his own agenda, his will to conquer whatever it is - money, fame, glory... That was shown in the 1st episode, when his ship was adrift but he did not accep his fate and called his captain a coward.
I think that Mari didn't want to marry Buntaro because his family was of a lower status than Mariko's. That's why Mariko looks down on Buntaro.
Tadaoki, who was the model for Buntaro, loved his wife so much. Buntaro loved his wife. That's why she didn't want him to die. Do you want to kill someone you love? Buntaro was clumsy and couldn't express his love well, but he hadn't been abuse her .
Mariko was attracted to anjin, a Westerner who expressed his feelings openly. When Buntaro returned from a tough battle, they became good friends.
I think that's why he was irritated and resorted to violence. Mariko has too much self-pity. She has a strong desire for death and is strong-willed and cold, I think.
Would Mariko have said something kind to Buntaro after what happened to her husband's father? I think no.
Although the drama is riveting I really feel the gap of it not being clear what the value of time is for toranaga
this was a lot...
Shegun 😂 the 80s episode was better
@@geelove4974 ill watch that soon...
@@geelove4974 she?gun
Blackthorne keeps getting the short end of the stick. What a shame for such a great character in Clavell’s book.
I am not sure I like what they are doing to Blackthorne's character.
Blackthorne is in on it
@@wreccen Hopefully.
I know 😂 80s episode was better .shegun 24
They should no longer state this is based on the novel, for the story has changed far too much.
Hard to turn away. Toronaga’s plan had best not be contrived or ridiculous. Too much build up.
_==_
Sorry but it’s hard to understand why his best friend had to died just to pretend he was defeated. Same for wife’s being abused
Zaten yavaş giden bir diziyi haftada 1 kez yayınlamanız çok sinir bozucu
boy... you would have been miserable during the heyday of Game of Thrones then 😂
4:25 Really disagree with the sentiment that you can never truly belong in a place where you weren’t born. This is a really strange thing to say…I understand that that was and is a prevailing attitude in Japan to some extent, but that doesn’t make it true…or an ethical belief. Do immigrants not belong in the Western countries they call home? Blackthorn respects and aligns with Japanese culture, speaks the language and honours their traditions, and he’s been accepted. Why would he not belong there? He came to establish trade, not to conquer. Now he just wants to build a life. Or is there something I’m missing?
"Do immigrants not belong to the western countries they call home?"
I think you need to actual listen to that section again because that's not what they said. The point is that no matter how much an outsider integrates themselves into their new home, they will always be viewed as an outside at least to a small degree and that will always effect their lives and the ways in which people interact with them. This is especially true of Japanese society.
They don't do a good job of explaining why Mariko hates Buntaro. All they say is that it was an arranged marriage and she didn't like him from the beginning. But all the noble women had arranged marriage. It makes no sense. Then he wouldn't let her kill herself. So she hates him more? She isn't a very sympathetic character, despite being full of self pity.
He didn't let her kill herself and mistreated her all those years
They were married “before” everything happened. Buntaro just wanted to be loved back but Mariko keep insisting on death for herself but Buntaro kept denying her thinking she will change her mind eventually.
@@JonnySlick007 It seems in the show that he only mistreats her because of the way she treats him. She initiates the negativity, not him.
Um maybe it was the rape and domestic violence, but also she is from a lower class.
@@XaldinX There was no rape and they are the same class. It was an arranged marriage as was normal then. She caused the problems by joining a banned foreign cult, thus endagering the whole family.
Stop it you all. Hiromatsu doesn’t die, one of the generals is ordered to commit sepuki indeed but not Hiromatsu. Toranaga son doesn’t die, they both live and fight for Toranaga in the final battle at Sekigahara. It’s total nonsense what’s done with this episode, especially Nagas comical death
Naga's death wasn't in this episode.
Also - why are you so bothered by these changes? This is an adaptation; it doesn't need to match the original story perfectly. I haven't read the book (yet), but to me these characters' deaths were impactful to me, which wouldn't be the case if it were some other less-important characters.
I’ve watched or played this episode twice. I’m losing interest . I can’t stand watching Cosmo destroy scenes. The tea ceremony was unnecessary despite the historical importance behind it. The art in making tea was finger painted by a child.
I am embarrassed by the amount of hype I gave this series after watching the first few episodes. The last two episodes are trash.
The plot just seemed to get unnecessarily convoluted in this episode. I think the writers are trying too hard to emulate GoT and think making characters play 4D chess makes for a good storyline.
👎
Yeah, for sure the plot of a book written in 1975 is emulating GoT
I think it's safe to say many things have been altered.
@@stevebubbie1126The plot they are adapting was written literally decades before GoT. Unless you're trying to argue time travel is real, they literally couldn't be ripping it off.
This is a soap opera shegun😢 no action
Never seen such quality writing and acting in a soap opera, please point me to them 😂
That is true. but it still feel like a soap opera@@solokalnesaltam3015
This is becoming boring. The girl boss agenda is pertinent in the past few episodes. Can you just tell it like the book. A 15 minute tea session is too self gratuitous and is killing the pace.
This show is amazing.
Buntaro makes tea so sexy❤
Sorry Guys all your futile butterings of the show in vain, I call it what is is: Shogun is naked. One of the biggest disappointments of last decade. 3 out of 10 so far for me.
you are unique