With really difficult solder you might find better results with a heavy application of flux and some solder wick, the wicking action may do better at pulling out the older solder than the mechanical approach.
@@benfrainuk Well - having a solid construction with Gateron compatible sockets at the correct angles for each key would be too expensive, I guess :( ... I just took for granted that that's what they'd done in this new premium design.
Lack of hot swap is pure lazyness, especially for THIS money. It is not impossible - requires just a tiny little bit of imagination. People responsible for design should play some tetris IMO. P.S. Thanks for the videos, Ben - helped a lot (got moonlander approx 1 year ago thanks to this channel's content - I definitely do not regret switching to split and ortholinear/columnar layout, but searching for an alternative now, since ZSA became a $$$ greedy joke - tripod kit, another pair of legs - all considering keyboard's base price being at above 400EUR in Europe; I'd throw in trrs instead of usb c and halfmoon as a bonus ;) )
Interesting. I don’t feel that’s the case with ZSA. Manufacturing high quality products in low numbers is incredibly expensive, you only have to look at any other split ergo board - they are all expensive compared to a standard Logitech/Microsoft board. Glad the expensive option is working out for you though. 👍
@@benfrainuk I might have gone a little overboard with my rant, I do agree with you regarding low volume costs, but tripod kit's price is still unjustified IMO. Have a great weekend!
I have an original Kinesis Advantage and a single key (the '5') stopped working recently. I emailed Kinesis support and, even though my keyboard is out of warranty and I am not the original purchaser, they still sent me out 3 switches free of charge. Absolutely fantastic support, they went above and beyond. I've been looking for any and all information that will help me with the soldering replacement, and I have to say I really appreciated your candor and honesty describing the challenges and problems you had! Fortunately I have only a single key to do... but this video certainly bolsters my confidence that it can be done! Cheers, thanks for the great close-ups and soldering tips.
Absolutely loved this video! You really did a number on that socket, good lord. Glad you got it fixed in the end though, and it sounds excellent with the Oil Kings!
Can't you use solder wick instead ? also you really should use flux when soldering. as they say the difference between a pro and amateur solder is flux. I am not familiar with the guy you mentioned where you learn how to solder but if he doesn't use solder wick nor flux I don't think you should recommend him at all. also... the keycaps with legends are also made of PBT.
As SOON as I heard that you pulled the copper out I knew exactly how you fixed it lol. I built a keyboard for a friend and managed to overheat one of the copper leads so much that it actually detached from the board. I had to do almost exactly what you did, but I had a bit of spare braided wire lol. Good on ya for thinkin on your feet though hahaha
I’m listening to Sensible Ben. Y’see, I want to craft WORDS, not keyboards. That’s why I’m in this at all. Lest you think I’m being a schoolmarm, I do have a Dygma Raise 1 with Gamakay Mercurys, so I know what “sublime” means when it comes to switches. That thing feels so good it’s probably immoral.
Have broken my share of PCBs with the manual solder suckers too. My fix was getting a proper desoldering gun. Never had a problem with those not pulling out all the solder, absolutely amazing tools. You can also fix it with wires, usually I use a multimeter meassure what to solder it onto if I'm not sure.
I recently put the oil kings into my 3D printed dactyl manuform as well and wow it was so worth it! They feel and sound great to type on, it was totally worth the effort. I am currently wrapping up my own kinesis model 130 modding, I have made it fully hot swappable and run on QMK. Great video as always!
Hey! glad to see you managed to get it back to working order! we all learn with our mistakes, but some times certain mistakes cost more than others! just wanted to say that i've gotten a kinesis advantage 2 a couple of weeks ago and i absolutely love it. it really changed my life. i had no idea how much pain i was in between my wrists and my forearms and shoulders... i just didnt realize it i guess because i was using my normal keyboards so much my brain must have tuned it out now if i ever go back to a regular keyboard its instant pain! I admit that its not all success stories, after a couple of weeks on colemak, because the kinesis didnt have a native colemak layer and it wasnt motivated enough to make one key by key, i switched back to qwerty but on the kinesis it feels a lot better. maybe in the future i'll give the colemak layout another try but for now im quite happy with my new setup! I might even consider selling my fancy mechanical custom board and buy a 360 as well instead.
Ha. I really like them but the problem was they took so long that by the time they arrived I’d moved on to split boards. They just sit on the wall now looking colourful! 🤣
@@benfrainuk You must have gotten a particularly difficult join. Usually I always add fresh solder, because the unleaded stuff they use it difficult to work with. Lots of flux, not the pen thing, that evaporates in like 1 second, proper rosin flux. That works 99.99% of the time. If that fails you need to reach for the hotair station.
For anyone with a keyboard with MX switches, allow me to recommend trying out thick or thin O-Rings. I tried thin (blue) and very thin (red) O-rings from WASDkeyboards (which I've been using for years, on any MX keyboard I've owned), as well as the thick MX O-rings from Glorious (the 70A hard ones) on my Kinesis Advantage 360 with Gateron browns, and I think any O-rings are a true game changer. To my surprise, I most like the 2.5mm hard thick ones from Glorious. They reduce the travel and dampen the noise considerably, so it sounds and feels great, a lot better than stock in my opinion. Recently I had a chance to try a friends Advantage 360 with the Kailh box pink quiet (linear) switches, and those sound and feel rather similar when stock to the Gateron browns with Glorious O-rings (other than not having a tactile pressure point ofc). I wonder if the Kailh box pink quiets have some rubber damping inside? Anyway, It's a very easy mod (remove key cap, put ring on key cap stem, put key cap back), and I cannot recommend it enough. It does not work for MX keys with round or square box stems though, but any normal ones (such as MX Browns) are fine.
Great video, man. I intended to buy this keyboard, but the limited switch options made me hesitate. How about its stabilizers? Because after using a custom keyboard with stabilizers that have been tuned and lubed, I find it very hard to deal with unstable, unlubed stabilizers.
@@benfrainuk It was an early celebration - my keyboard has the same Bluetooth issues as yours and my space key gets stuck if I disable the light indicators (Mod + Space). Probably will need to contact Kinesis to get it fixed.
I soldered all the key switches out of my Advantage 1 to replace them with blue clickies :O What a pain it was. I am not sure what kind of solder they used, but it was really hard to do it, it just didn't want to melt.... Luckily I was able to find half a key-well with blues, so "all the switches" ended up just one side and the thumb clusters :O
"Gateron Brown switches are by no means terrible". I love almost everything about my 360 Pro except the switches (and the connection issues). They are very tiring to type on because the actuation point is much lower than the spec'ed 2mm and they don't have much post-actuation weight increase. This seems to be true for nearly all Gateron Brown variants if you look at real-world actuation graphs (outside Gateron's spec sheets). After a few months, I have mostly reverted to the Kinesis Advantage2 when I use an Advantage. I was really looking forward to about your switch replacement experiences, but it seems like it's not worth the potential risk of a total 600 Euro keyboard loss. I have recently acquired a Keyboardio Model 100 very cheaply and I have grown quite fond of it as my second keyboard besides the Advantage2. The extremely sculpted keycaps bring some of that key well feel in that it is easy for the fingers to find the keys, but it brings some benefits over the Advantage, like hot swap, a standard camera mount screw hole (for more tenting solutions), palm keys, and a much better sound.
When you buy the Advantage 360 from Upgrade Keyboards, you can ask them to make the switches hot swappable for you so you can change the switches as you please. It's a little more than $100 if I recall correctly.
not doubting what youre saying but i find it very suspicious how they could make it hot swap since the switches are what are holding the curved PCB in place and if you remove a switch the PCB will surely get out of position? they must make something really custom in there to get it to stay in place
I've modded my DasKeyboard (108 keys) for practice...to lead up to the 360pro modding (with Alpaca V2's...lubed+filmed and waiting!) ... was wondering how come you haven't tried Tape-Mod or added any bottom padding to the 360 for extra Oompf feel? Also, in the video, you haven't shown what you used the Flux for? My old Das had horrible solder that needed 400C to finally melt, unlike the re-soldering which was easy 350. Did you use flux to desolder? Or did it go smoothly without it @Ben Frain? Regards and thanks for this video!
Hi Peter, the flux was more when soldering in the new switches. Just helps the solder go where it should. I have a layer of 1mm neoprene to go in for damping. Just building up the courage to open the case up again! 😉
ayyy I'm glad you were able to get it fixed! I ordered mine from Upgrade Keyboards with the Zealioses, now I just have to wait until October to get it 😭
Glad you were able to get it back to work again. Could you make a video comparing the kinesis to the Design 68 keyboard by Vexc How? As far as I know , it’s one of the very few concave split keyboard with hot swappeable key switches.
Why has nobody made a opensource version of this thing? What magical sauce does Kinesis have that makes it impossible for the custom keyboard people to make something as good?
@@LL-wc4wn I’m not saying it is. I’ve never changed switches in the Advantage2 so can’t compare. All I’m saying is I found desoldering the switches in the 360, particularly the thumb switches, very difficult
I'm currently using the moonlander keyboard but it sounds like you think this keyboard is much more comfortable. Do you still stand by that opinion? I may order the 360 to give it a try.
More comfortable yes, but not massively so. A curved keywell, regardless of board, is generally, always going to feel a little more comfortable than a flat because the keys are all closer to your finger tips. How much you appreciate that difference is subjective though. I’m glad I got mine. I move between 360, Moonlander and Glove80 currently and enjoy them all, but prefer the heavier feel of the Moonlander/360 marginally (although lightness of Glove80 is a benefit when travelling) 👍
@@benfrainuk Awesome, thanks. I have been using the system76 keyboard for some time and really like it. I've had the moonlander for a while but every time I pick it up I end up putting it back in the drawer due to all the wacky key combinations. I'm currently trying to use it again and going to force myself to stick with it for at least 30 days before I put it back in the drawer.
Yes. Think that’s a good plan. Took me a few weeks to adjust to column layout when I first got an ErgoDox EZ. Remember to try the training tools at ZSA. I think they are a great place to start. Think of it like 30mins of daily cardio ;)
If you're not going to spend 200+ to buy a desoldering gun, try something like YIHUA 929D-V next time. I also had hard time with normal desoldering pump, but that one worked out so easily.
Any. But the kinesis ones are the correct shape for the position they go in. They are different shapes depending on whether they should be on top row or home row for example
How does the glove 80 compare to the advantage 360 for you? What makes the advantage 360 a better keyboard to type on for you? Also you had mentioned previously you often had the advantage 360 Bluetooth problems, were they fixed by Kinesis?
I’ve done a review on the Glove80 and discuss it in comparison with the 360. Glove80 is perfectly comfortable, and I use it every week but I just don’t make use of the function key row and prefer the wider keys at the outer edges. Personal preference more than anything. Don’t want to jinx it but not had any connection issues for a while now with the 360. Glove80 has always been faultless in that regard 👍
@@benfrainuk That's great to hear! So Kinesis was able to improve connectivity when you sent it back to them? I got my Glove80 and while it doesn't crash like my 360 did, I can't go more than a day or two before Bluetooth flakes out and I have to plug it in. So I think I'm just in some kind of electromagnetic vortex.
So more comfortable than the Glove? Glove has a major problem because their shipping is even more than the price of the keyboard! Everyone is complaining about it.
Have you jumped into the Glove80 discord and queried the shipping? If Stephen (one of the Glove creators) doesn’t know about that, I’m sure he will work to sort 👍
@@benfrainuk Yes actually put a pre order hold payment down. Couldn't believe that they haven't sorted that out. I would give the advice to avoid any type of 'reserve your spot' payment to these guys. Wait to see what they will charge and then you can pull out easily. Really disappointed in Glove as a company.
Where do people get this kind of time to take apart a perfectly good working keyboard and ruin it, then spend even more time fixing it? Sounds like a pretty luxurious position to be in that you are ruining by doing frustrating stuff like this.
With really difficult solder you might find better results with a heavy application of flux and some solder wick, the wicking action may do better at pulling out the older solder than the mechanical approach.
WHAT?? - Can't you simply do this?? - ruclips.net/user/shortsXOz_nNJNrDw - my 360 was broken on arrival - one Gateron switch positioned wrongly.
Wait .. they're SOLDERED them onto the PCB? - why on earth would they do that?
You need a flexible PCB to enable the curved keywell. But hotswap sockets would strain a curved PCB such that it would quickly fail.
@@benfrainuk Well - having a solid construction with Gateron compatible sockets at the correct angles for each key would be too expensive, I guess :( ... I just took for granted that that's what they'd done in this new premium design.
It's called Wireless Bluetooth Dactyl Manuform Keyboard Builds on Etsy.
Lack of hot swap is pure lazyness, especially for THIS money. It is not impossible - requires just a tiny little bit of imagination. People responsible for design should play some tetris IMO.
P.S.
Thanks for the videos, Ben - helped a lot (got moonlander approx 1 year ago thanks to this channel's content - I definitely do not regret switching to split and ortholinear/columnar layout, but searching for an alternative now, since ZSA became a $$$ greedy joke - tripod kit, another pair of legs - all considering keyboard's base price being at above 400EUR in Europe; I'd throw in trrs instead of usb c and halfmoon as a bonus ;) )
Interesting. I don’t feel that’s the case with ZSA. Manufacturing high quality products in low numbers is incredibly expensive, you only have to look at any other split ergo board - they are all expensive compared to a standard Logitech/Microsoft board. Glad the expensive option is working out for you though. 👍
@@benfrainuk I might have gone a little overboard with my rant, I do agree with you regarding low volume costs, but tripod kit's price is still unjustified IMO.
Have a great weekend!
The PBT keycaps helped mine sound so much better. That was enough for me. For now….
Man, what a journey!! Glad it’s fixed now. As usual fantastic content. Thanks for taking the time to share with the community.
I always use desoldering wick/wire
I have an original Kinesis Advantage and a single key (the '5') stopped working recently. I emailed Kinesis support and, even though my keyboard is out of warranty and I am not the original purchaser, they still sent me out 3 switches free of charge. Absolutely fantastic support, they went above and beyond.
I've been looking for any and all information that will help me with the soldering replacement, and I have to say I really appreciated your candor and honesty describing the challenges and problems you had! Fortunately I have only a single key to do... but this video certainly bolsters my confidence that it can be done! Cheers, thanks for the great close-ups and soldering tips.
Fantastic. Hope it goes well 👍👍
Absolutely loved this video! You really did a number on that socket, good lord. Glad you got it fixed in the end though, and it sounds excellent with the Oil Kings!
Can't you use solder wick instead ? also you really should use flux when soldering. as they say the difference between a pro and amateur solder is flux. I am not familiar with the guy you mentioned where you learn how to solder but if he doesn't use solder wick nor flux I don't think you should recommend him at all.
also... the keycaps with legends are also made of PBT.
As SOON as I heard that you pulled the copper out I knew exactly how you fixed it lol. I built a keyboard for a friend and managed to overheat one of the copper leads so much that it actually detached from the board. I had to do almost exactly what you did, but I had a bit of spare braided wire lol. Good on ya for thinkin on your feet though hahaha
I’m listening to Sensible Ben. Y’see, I want to craft WORDS, not keyboards. That’s why I’m in this at all.
Lest you think I’m being a schoolmarm, I do have a Dygma Raise 1 with Gamakay Mercurys, so I know what “sublime” means when it comes to switches. That thing feels so good it’s probably immoral.
Does anyone know what micro processor the Adv uses ? I'm using Nice!Nanos V2's in my Dactyl Manuforms (6x6) Thanks
Thanks for commenting on my Reddit question, sending engagement, lol
Your kinesis sounds really nice after changing the switches, and since it works it's 110% worth it.🧙
Are you daily driving the kinesis or the moergo80? Which do you prefer for longer working sessions?
I put in filler and changed the PBT key caps. I'm happy with the result
Sensible 👍
Have broken my share of PCBs with the manual solder suckers too. My fix was getting a proper desoldering gun. Never had a problem with those not pulling out all the solder, absolutely amazing tools.
You can also fix it with wires, usually I use a multimeter meassure what to solder it onto if I'm not sure.
Interesting. Always wondered if the dedicated stations were worth it. Seems like they are! 👍
Thanks for the video man, just did this myself, you are right the thumbpads were the worst most annoying part.
Did it all work ok after though? 🤞
We need a service for that in Europe!
I recently put the oil kings into my 3D printed dactyl manuform as well and wow it was so worth it! They feel and sound great to type on, it was totally worth the effort. I am currently wrapping up my own kinesis model 130 modding, I have made it fully hot swappable and run on QMK. Great video as always!
Oly sh, if you're serious how did you do that with the kinesis?
Hey! glad to see you managed to get it back to working order! we all learn with our mistakes, but some times certain mistakes cost more than others!
just wanted to say that i've gotten a kinesis advantage 2 a couple of weeks ago and i absolutely love it. it really changed my life. i had no idea how much pain i was in between my wrists and my forearms and shoulders... i just didnt realize it i guess because i was using my normal keyboards so much my brain must have tuned it out
now if i ever go back to a regular keyboard its instant pain!
I admit that its not all success stories, after a couple of weeks on colemak, because the kinesis didnt have a native colemak layer and it wasnt motivated enough to make one key by key, i switched back to qwerty but on the kinesis it feels a lot better.
maybe in the future i'll give the colemak layout another try but for now im quite happy with my new setup! I might even consider selling my fancy mechanical custom board and buy a 360 as well instead.
That’s great. Comfort is key 👍
hey fellow HMKB owner, did you enjoy that wait as much as I did?
Ha. I really like them but the problem was they took so long that by the time they arrived I’d moved on to split boards. They just sit on the wall now looking colourful! 🤣
Next time use solder wick
Tried it at the time. Didn’t help unfortunately
@@benfrainuk You must have gotten a particularly difficult join.
Usually I always add fresh solder, because the unleaded stuff they use it difficult to work with.
Lots of flux, not the pen thing, that evaporates in like 1 second, proper rosin flux.
That works 99.99% of the time. If that fails you need to reach for the hotair station.
@@odysseos12 I’ll get some proper flux next time then - it was one of the pen based ones I used
For anyone with a keyboard with MX switches, allow me to recommend trying out thick or thin O-Rings.
I tried thin (blue) and very thin (red) O-rings from WASDkeyboards (which I've been using for years, on any MX keyboard I've owned), as well as the thick MX O-rings from Glorious (the 70A hard ones) on my Kinesis Advantage 360 with Gateron browns, and I think any O-rings are a true game changer. To my surprise, I most like the 2.5mm hard thick ones from Glorious. They reduce the travel and dampen the noise considerably, so it sounds and feels great, a lot better than stock in my opinion.
Recently I had a chance to try a friends Advantage 360 with the Kailh box pink quiet (linear) switches, and those sound and feel rather similar when stock to the Gateron browns with Glorious O-rings (other than not having a tactile pressure point ofc). I wonder if the Kailh box pink quiets have some rubber damping inside?
Anyway, It's a very easy mod (remove key cap, put ring on key cap stem, put key cap back), and I cannot recommend it enough. It does not work for MX keys with round or square box stems though, but any normal ones (such as MX Browns) are fine.
Great video, man. I intended to buy this keyboard, but the limited switch options made me hesitate. How about its stabilizers? Because after using a custom keyboard with stabilizers that have been tuned and lubed, I find it very hard to deal with unstable, unlubed stabilizers.
There are no stabilizers on this board 👍
@@benfrainuk thank you for your video and your reply 😃
Man, I've ended up getting Advantage 360 Pro thanks to you)
I haven't had any Bluetooth issues and it feels amazing.
Thank you for the videos!
Fine choice and glad you are happy with it 👍
@@benfrainuk It was an early celebration - my keyboard has the same Bluetooth issues as yours and my space key gets stuck if I disable the light indicators (Mod + Space). Probably will need to contact Kinesis to get it fixed.
I soldered all the key switches out of my Advantage 1 to replace them with blue clickies :O
What a pain it was. I am not sure what kind of solder they used, but it was really hard to do it, it just didn't want to melt.... Luckily I was able to find half a key-well with blues, so "all the switches" ended up just one side and the thumb clusters :O
Which one you will pick: Kinesis Advantage 360 or Dygma Raise/ Defy?
"Gateron Brown switches are by no means terrible". I love almost everything about my 360 Pro except the switches (and the connection issues). They are very tiring to type on because the actuation point is much lower than the spec'ed 2mm and they don't have much post-actuation weight increase. This seems to be true for nearly all Gateron Brown variants if you look at real-world actuation graphs (outside Gateron's spec sheets). After a few months, I have mostly reverted to the Kinesis Advantage2 when I use an Advantage. I was really looking forward to about your switch replacement experiences, but it seems like it's not worth the potential risk of a total 600 Euro keyboard loss.
I have recently acquired a Keyboardio Model 100 very cheaply and I have grown quite fond of it as my second keyboard besides the Advantage2. The extremely sculpted keycaps bring some of that key well feel in that it is easy for the fingers to find the keys, but it brings some benefits over the Advantage, like hot swap, a standard camera mount screw hole (for more tenting solutions), palm keys, and a much better sound.
How do you feel about the Oil Kings these days? Aren't they a bit heavy for someone who is typing a lot?
Still love them. But yes, not the lightest
@@benfrainuk Just got my Kinesis back from UpgradedKeyboards and I love them as well. Feels amazing.
and Ben if forced to choose as your only board would you go with the Kinesis or Glove?
Use a copper wick, not a sucker tool.
I did try copper wick but had less luck. Likely a skills issue 🤣
Hmmm… less trouble with the hot-swappable Dygmas.
For sure, but you don’t get the curved keywell there. Hot swap and curved, I’ve not seen outside of DIY like the Dactyl.
@@benfrainuk
True. Don‘t know how that would feel. You could compare it later with the Defy.
When you buy the Advantage 360 from Upgrade Keyboards, you can ask them to make the switches hot swappable for you so you can change the switches as you please. It's a little more than $100 if I recall correctly.
not doubting what youre saying but i find it very suspicious how they could make it hot swap since the switches are what are holding the curved PCB in place and if you remove a switch the PCB will surely get out of position? they must make something really custom in there to get it to stay in place
@@256k_ that's what they quoted me for my A360 order. I ended up cancelling so never did get to see how it turned out. You may be right.
I wrote them just now and they said they don’t do hot swap on it.
@@adamrodriguez7598 interesting. they told me the opposite. I wonder if things have changed.
@@csells99 maybe it’s cause mine is preowned, or a pro, or they changed their minds recently. Oh well.
I've modded my DasKeyboard (108 keys) for practice...to lead up to the 360pro modding (with Alpaca V2's...lubed+filmed and waiting!) ... was wondering how come you haven't tried Tape-Mod or added any bottom padding to the 360 for extra Oompf feel?
Also, in the video, you haven't shown what you used the Flux for? My old Das had horrible solder that needed 400C to finally melt, unlike the re-soldering which was easy 350. Did you use flux to desolder? Or did it go smoothly without it @Ben Frain?
Regards and thanks for this video!
Hi Peter, the flux was more when soldering in the new switches. Just helps the solder go where it should. I have a layer of 1mm neoprene to go in for damping. Just building up the courage to open the case up again! 😉
So happy it all worked out in the end for you... but as we say "Sh💩t Happens". As always wishing you the best. Kudos from NYC🗽.
👍🙏
ayyy I'm glad you were able to get it fixed! I ordered mine from Upgrade Keyboards with the Zealioses, now I just have to wait until October to get it 😭
Had a board with Zealios in 👍 That should be terrific 😀
Glad you were able to get it back to work again. Could you make a video comparing the kinesis to the Design 68 keyboard by Vexc How? As far as I know , it’s one of the very few concave split keyboard with hot swappeable key switches.
If they wanted to send one for me to review, sure, but it’s not something I’ll be spending my own money on currently
Why has nobody made a opensource version of this thing? What magical sauce does Kinesis have that makes it impossible for the custom keyboard people to make something as good?
This is pretty close: github.com/wizarddata/Ergo-S-1
Damn, I wish I got one.
Man I wish they had something like this with Topre/EC switches
Oof. For sure. I’d be all over that! Still partial to a HHKB
I change my switches all the time in my Kinesis Advantage 2... Never had a problem.
If you ever get the 360 and change them with the same ease let me know
@@benfrainuk why specifically is it more difficult? I was planning on getting it and swapping switches.
@@LL-wc4wn I’m not saying it is. I’ve never changed switches in the Advantage2 so can’t compare. All I’m saying is I found desoldering the switches in the 360, particularly the thumb switches, very difficult
@@benfrainuk even with a desoldering gun?
@@LL-wc4wn I didn’t have a desoldering gun, just pump
I'm currently using the moonlander keyboard but it sounds like you think this keyboard is much more comfortable. Do you still stand by that opinion? I may order the 360 to give it a try.
More comfortable yes, but not massively so. A curved keywell, regardless of board, is generally, always going to feel a little more comfortable than a flat because the keys are all closer to your finger tips. How much you appreciate that difference is subjective though. I’m glad I got mine. I move between 360, Moonlander and Glove80 currently and enjoy them all, but prefer the heavier feel of the Moonlander/360 marginally (although lightness of Glove80 is a benefit when travelling) 👍
@@benfrainuk Awesome, thanks. I have been using the system76 keyboard for some time and really like it. I've had the moonlander for a while but every time I pick it up I end up putting it back in the drawer due to all the wacky key combinations. I'm currently trying to use it again and going to force myself to stick with it for at least 30 days before I put it back in the drawer.
Yes. Think that’s a good plan. Took me a few weeks to adjust to column layout when I first got an ErgoDox EZ. Remember to try the training tools at ZSA. I think they are a great place to start. Think of it like 30mins of daily cardio ;)
If you're not going to spend 200+ to buy a desoldering gun, try something like YIHUA 929D-V next time. I also had hard time with normal desoldering pump, but that one worked out so easily.
Since that fiasco I’ve actually bought myself this from Amazon: amzn.to/47P3qNk not tried it yet though!
@@benfrainuk Nice!
Can you use any PCB caps, or just the ones from Kinesis?
Any. But the kinesis ones are the correct shape for the position they go in. They are different shapes depending on whether they should be on top row or home row for example
How does the glove 80 compare to the advantage 360 for you? What makes the advantage 360 a better keyboard to type on for you?
Also you had mentioned previously you often had the advantage 360 Bluetooth problems, were they fixed by Kinesis?
I’ve done a review on the Glove80 and discuss it in comparison with the 360. Glove80 is perfectly comfortable, and I use it every week but I just don’t make use of the function key row and prefer the wider keys at the outer edges. Personal preference more than anything.
Don’t want to jinx it but not had any connection issues for a while now with the 360. Glove80 has always been faultless in that regard 👍
@@benfrainuk That's great to hear! So Kinesis was able to improve connectivity when you sent it back to them? I got my Glove80 and while it doesn't crash like my 360 did, I can't go more than a day or two before Bluetooth flakes out and I have to plug it in. So I think I'm just in some kind of electromagnetic vortex.
So more comfortable than the Glove? Glove has a major problem because their shipping is even more than the price of the keyboard! Everyone is complaining about it.
Have you jumped into the Glove80 discord and queried the shipping? If Stephen (one of the Glove creators) doesn’t know about that, I’m sure he will work to sort 👍
@@benfrainuk Yes actually put a pre order hold payment down. Couldn't believe that they haven't sorted that out. I would give the advice to avoid any type of 'reserve your spot' payment to these guys. Wait to see what they will charge and then you can pull out easily. Really disappointed in Glove as a company.
Any typing test to hear a difference?
12:40
Trust me it’s much better than the stock. Stock is clacky
Where do people get this kind of time to take apart a perfectly good working keyboard and ruin it, then spend even more time fixing it? Sounds like a pretty luxurious position to be in that you are ruining by doing frustrating stuff like this.
To try and make it better. And while the path was fraught to get there and I wouldn’t necessarily encourage others follow suit, it is now better
It’s a hobby, the same way people find time to do any other hobby they have.