Needing two or 3 attempts to beat a boss makes me think of hard mode in Stellar Blade. I think bad design needs to be criticized because a challenging game is not one where you have a boss with 5 large combos that can one or two hit you while having only one combo that leaves an opening for you to attack
What you say is fact, no fiction. They've been this way since DS1 on Xbox360. I played Ninja Gaiden games as a kid for fun before I discovered Dark Souls. After that, I continued playing souls games exclusively solo. Bloodborne, Sekiro, Nioh, Code Vein, Lies of P...I don't have a skill issue in the slightest. I beat Lies of P on stream and not a single boss killed me 10 times. They say its the hardest souls-like ever but I disagree. Nioh 2 and Sekrio have the best, fastest, most responsive and technically deep combat of them all, they're harder and they're the best ones. I play these games for build variety, exploration of an imaginative and threatening world with the bonfire death system, and the many different weapons and enemies. Those 3 things kind of define souls-likes and its why I play. I care nothing for the community or their handicapped opinions.
Arguably, Sekiro is much more difficult than elden ring. I was able to go through the whole fromsoft collection except for Sekiro, I died so many times that my cat got dragonrot in real life before I was even able to beat lady butterfly.
When comparing Sekiro to Elden Ring, you've gotta take into consideration that Sekiro needs to be completed completely solo, whereas you can summon in Elden Ring. When talking about soloing Elden Ring, the difficulty level feels closer to Sekiro, and now with the DLC it appears to be even harder. From my experience, each Miyazaki-directed game since Armored Core 4 has felt more difficult than the last, and I've played all of them.
I've had the same experience with Sekiro lol, it is far harder than Elden Ring to the point where I haven't beaten Sekiro yet. However, I love the gameplay of sekiro and the difficulty (for the most part) doesn't bother me because I love the combat mechanics so much (and I will eventually finish it as a result.). In comparison, I've beaten every boss in Elden Ring and almost all in the DLC however it was a much less fun experience. I still enjoy Elden Ring, but purely for the exploration aspects. The combat just feels awful, and I think that would be the case regardless of if the bosses were hard or easy. Just glad Mimic Tear works as a skip button so I can get to the exploration instead.
From the perspective of someone who's already beaten the DLC and played these games for a long time now: I think it's perfectly fine to criticize something like this. With that being said, this genre in the recent past has been pretty niche-to say the very least-and Elden Ring might have been developed as a way to bring new players in but, at the end of the day, it still comes down to the idea that Miyazaki-san and company are still making these games (and their DLCs) exactly as they want to make them, and they'll likely continue to do so. That being these games for a niche audience, it's kind of inescapable: they work as intended for aforementioned audiences, their target demographic. The games are successful at accomplishing what they do because of this, if they were to switch it up I'd imagine that they would be less so. So tackling the game(s) and DLC(s) with a unique approach within the context of what can be done might be the only way to beat them, and that needs to be considered the acceptable method(s), that's where this "git gud" phrasing comes from: find a way to defeat bosses within the game's mechanics, or don't. If people don't want to then there are an innumerable amount of games out there to play instead. But everyone should have the right to voice their dissenting opinions and be heard on the subject, there's nothing wrong with any of that.
Played and finished all Soulsborne games including their DLC's, nope, Elden Ring's base game already adds a lot of "Extra Cheap Bullshit". Haven't played the DLC yet and not planning to due to the base games crappy balancing.
They really put Sekiro and Bloodborne bosses into elden ring dlc, my main two issues is that they are too aggressive and hit for 1500 damage 7/10 hits, there is cool new weapons but using any is suicide on most bosses 😢
I'm almost done with the dlc and i'm using ultra greatswords and the new ugs with the new ashes of war... I don't get what people are talking about this. two or three charged R2s are stunning these bosses too so I just think people are not keeping up with the mechanics at this point
The issue isn't necessarily that it's hard; it's that the way in which difficulty is achieved is cheap. Things like bosses canceling animations to react to your healing, or the massive flashy anime combos that they all have, or the insane tracking which gives you no choice but to roll, these issues have been present since ds3 and perhaps earlier. Each boss in the original dark souls and especially demons souls asked you to use the mechanics in a unique way. For instance, the bell gargoyles were a memorable encounter because you had to manage two boss enemies at once and create openings within their simple patterns. The bell gargoyles and the way their attacks overlap create a challenge that makes you think deeper than "ok what frame do i roll on and can i sneak in one more attack before the next 30 hit combo kicks in"
SO! MUCH! THIS! From Software completely changed their once winning formula "Challenging but always fair" to "HARD IS ALL WE NEED", like all the other competitors who tried to copy that success before and never understood WHY it was so beloved in the first place! And now From Software seems to have forgotten it themselves!
Just look up Elden Ring DLC no damage run. There are people who have no amour and manage to not get hit once by these bosses. This means there is a technically perefect way to beat the game it's just that there is a learning curve to a lot of it.
I’m in ng+2 and it’s really not as hard as you guys are saying. Sure it’s def not easy and I’m dying a lot but I’m still having a blast. The game really gives you all the tools you need to get through it. Multiple bosses I’ve killed in 1-3 tries.
DLC on NG+ is actually somewhat easier than on NG because you retain your Scadutree Fragments. (Assuming that you collected them on previous playthroughs.)
@@nyclurker603 You realize that you are not disagreeing with what I wrote, right? I said that the DLC is easier on NG+ than it is on NG IF you collected the fragments during NG. I did not say that the DLC was easier in NG+ if its your first time playing it.
The only boss I actually enjoyed in sote was messmer. At least he has openings, even though he is powerful and flashy. They tell me I'll look back and think "wow" that I killed the boss, but I don't. I just feel annoyed thinking about how stupid they were, and glad I'm done with them.
100% agree. He was the one that was best balanced in terms of attack timings, telegraphs, and punishment windows. (The one exception is when his snake goes wild in his second phase and the dodge timings get wacky.)
Ya know i kinda expected this , and this si the reason i didnt buy the DLC yet. I am surprised to see this discussion finally happening. I would also like to say that for me personaly Lies of P is a far more enjoyable souls game then Elden Ring.
Elden ring is my first fromsoft game and I mostly enjoyed it. However I like the early bosses way more than the late game. You and joseph anderson described it perfectly with the LONG combo strings that leaves an opening for 1 hit. That's why I start using the mimic tear. I like fighting the crucible knight and bell bearing hunter because you could dodge 1 or 3 hits or shield it for an opening.
Clearly, you are wrong. Because the majority of people DO get an accomplishment from modern fromsoftware bosses. You are pretending your opinion is an objective fact - that their games are somehow objectively flawed in their boss design. For whats its worth, i do think the balance of the damage is a little too high. 2 hits shouldnt kill you most of the time. But complaining about delayed attacks? Infinite combos? Come on. Just say you are not using the other mechanics of the game, and instead just trying to play it with rolling and R1. Start using all the mechanics of the game, dont rely only in your reflexes. In elden ring's case, you NEED to use the guard counters. You need to learn how to jump certain attacks instead of rolling, to get a hit. Fromsoftware did change their boss design. DS1 and DS2, with few exceptions, are essentially turn-based games. You wait for the enemy to finish one attack, then you attack. Ideally, you also use a shield, as those games were designed with the shield usage in mind for some enemies and attack types. So its a more passive game design. This changed with bloodborne, where they wanted the pacing of the fight to be determined more by the player, instead of the enemy you're facing. If you try to play bloodborne like ds1 and 2, you'll find that most fights take forever. You must take the initiative and *keep* the pressure on. Don't let go. Sekiro is the perfect culmination of this. If you claim sekiro is somehow flawed in its difficulty, then i'm sorry, but that is, at the end of the day, just a skill issue. The game is the most linear of From's catalogue, it has only one weapon/build: it's a game perfectly balanced for the character you're playing as. Most fights also dont kill you in 2 or 3 hits like Elden ring. Honestly, its the perfect difficulty, where the only thing that is stopping you from a no-damage run is skill; barely anything is left up to chance or random camera movements to screw you. And its in sekiro where we see their new design philosophy that started in bloodborne take its full shape: it's not enough to just parry in that game, you must also identify when to attack to keep the posture bar of your enemy up. Every second you're not parrying or attacking, your enemy is essentially recovering HP. You need to be aggressive, you need to keep pressure. No backing off, no taking turns. Between enemy attacks, you need to land your own. You need to find your own openings, that you yourself create when parrying. Not by waiting for the enemy to allow you to hit them like in DS1 and DS2. Elden ring continues to follow this design - a design that you clearly either didnt understand or doesnt like. But what the game wants from you is to keep the pressure and create your openings. The posture bar, while invisible, is still a thing. It rewards aggressive play by knocking down the enemy for a critical hit. What elden ring does differently is that it expects you to manage to be aggressive in a multitude of ways: parrying, rolling, but also jumping and guard counters. Those are all necessary depending on the fight. Even horseback combat is important for some battles, like dragons. And, yes, summoning. Summoning is not just tacked on. Its a difficulty slider, aswell as an intentional mechanic for some moments of the game that were clearly designed for you to also have some help to fight multi-enemy battles. All in all, elden ring with its extremely versatile ashes of war, summoning, new guard counter(which many people ignore and shouldnt) and jumping, added new and interseting ways to create openings from the bosses and enemies, instead of just waiting around for them to finish their ''infinite combo'' or just roll through some attacks. It's also important to keep atleast 2 different weapons in elden ring; its an open world game after all - it wants you to have more build variety than past games, to tackle different challenges in more effective ways. Late game is still too unbalanced, with some fights really killing you in 2 hits, which i dislike. But thats a numbers problem. It's not their core game design philosophy thats wrong, of making the fights require more inquisitiviness and proactiveness from the player, instead of either just reflexes or waiting for your chance to attack. TL;DR: Stop crying, go get good and start counter-attacking and breaking the bosses' posture, instead of pretending your opinion about game design is an objective fact.
yeah the dlc was fine for the most part, but it definitely pushes you to use everything you got, tools and gameplay mechanics wise, but thats the problem because people just dont use their head when playing these games. like just look at the community and you'll notice the swarms of people using white mask dual bleed uchis, or the 0 vigor mages that spam just 1 or 2 spells, whats the point in maximizing dps if youre then just gonna die to a single boss for multiple hours straight and whine about it online
Elden Ring makes the posture bar invisible, it is much harder for the player to react at all, and at least Malenia can ignore posture entirely. If Elden Ring is following the ideas set up by Sekiro it is done worse. By making the bar invisible they not only hide that information from the player, not only does this make the mechanic seem unimportant, but also random. Sekiro also allows for you to cancel the attack and generally has faster animations allowing for a much better reactive and aggressive play. Elden Ring by storing inputs makes it often impossible to react at all (for example, mid dodge pressing attack, and then before the character model commits to the attack the player realizes that they should instead dodge again... but now cannot) which deters players from being aggressive again. And the Malenia issue I will say is an issue that is only present with her (as far as I know), but it still shows that posture was not something deemed important enough to make sure she kept to the rules. Another point is that the critical hits are far less important. In Sekiro the posture breaking is equivelant to the actual health. It is rare to beat a boss by damaging them rather than breaking their posture. Elden Ring is entirely different, with posture breaks doing wildly different damage across the board. I've even seen many different people recommend to not do the critical hits that posture breaks give you, and instead just hit them for normal. So no, I think it does not make sense to say Elden Ring continues this design of being like Sekiro... but regardless what kind of game doesn't even tell you how to play? If somehow the creator of the video (as well as the hundreds of other people in the comments of this video, across different forums, and in the comments of other videos with the exact same critique) was unable to understand how to play the game then that is a powerful critique as well! I don't think I know of any other game which has as many people playing it "wrong" as Elden Ring. I mean, half of the people defending Elden Ring have stories of completely relearning how the combat works. I was watching a video the other day where in the speaker said that it took him until Malenia to learn how the combat in Elden Ring works... which is pretty dumb. I'm glad he was able to find a way to enjoy the combat, I don't think pointing out the design problems invalidate the fun you can have, and Elden Ring is the best game to have this weird system in, precisely because of all the tools they give you.
@@human6613 I dont disagree hiding posture was a dumb move, but i think they did it because posture break isnt the only way to beat bosses in this game, thats mostly for str builds. Also no Malenia doesn't ignore posture, she just has certain attacks that let her break out of it, but its entirely possible to get her on the ground again when she does the next attack. She just has a hyper armor to being flinched twice, then shes vulnerable again. She's an extremely bullyable boss especially if you know how to use frost pots against her.
Difficulty has always been a narrative component in FS games. Just like its inspiration Berserk, there is something to be gained at struggling against a seemingly impossible enemy. Games as a product vs games as an art form. Its not as though the game doesn't give you the tools to succeed...
I think the problem isn't that the DLC is too difficult, it's more tedious than anything. Difficulty is a multi-layered conversation because there are a lot of variables, from player skill to build but I can only speak for myself, and I think "challenge" here has been mostly confused with arbitrarily bloating enemy damage output, HP and giving them excessively long combos. I've been playing these games for a long time and can only wonder if any real objectivity or criticism never reached the developers because sweaty tryhards shut down any discussion with 'git gud', and referring to anyone with legitimate criticism as a casual or a newcomer to the series replete with reductive reasoning like "well of course it's hard, it's a FromSoft game." I'm sure I read a quote from Miyazaki years ago where he said that difficulty was never the point, but if that was the case it definitely is now, and I think we're reaching the point where it's just being hard for the sake of it, and it just isn't fun anymore. For what it's worth, I hope they don't reduce the difficulty, but some bosses really do need to calm the fuck down for a second. My reaction after beating bosses like Messmer wasn't one of hard-won victory, it was "thank fuck that's over" and "I don't think I'll be doing that again". And it really does boggle the mind that From is still using the same terrible, janky camera that has been present in their games for over a decade at this point, whilst continuing to populate its boss arenas with colossal enemies that cause the thing to have a seizure if you dare to lock on. And the same from the vanilla Elden Ring with putting huge enemies in tiny rooms. They are literally repeating bad ideas like this and getting praise for it.
It is such an obnoxious tendency. It's as if the difficulty has become a shield from all criticism, and you get to dismiss anyone who doesn't agree as "not a true gamer, go play your casual CoD". I haven't played this DLC, but having played most of the FromSoft catalogue, and recently Lies of P, i was starting to get the sense that these games aren't really interestingly hard. Not anymore at least. It's not like a shmup where your brain is doing all sorts of work reading interesting and varied patterns, it's just tedious more than anything else. Claiming that the bosses aren't fun to fight isn't necessarily skill issue, it may just be that the guy/gal in question doesn''t like the fights lol.
i dont know dude. as someone who never was a fan of these games.. thsi shit has ALWAYS been difficult for the sake of being difficult... not a challenge or gimmicks
That's exactly wrong. The amazing reputation Dark Souls 1 & Bloodborne have come from that From Software managed to strike the perfect balance between challenge and fairness, every mistake you made was immedeattly or very shortly afterwards clear to you when you payed attention. It was usually the copycats who went for "Just needs to be hard to be a good Soulsborne game" who never interested me because of that. Only other game that understood that was "Nioh". And now From Software has fallen into that trap themselves with Elden Ring.
I'm not some FromSoft d rider, I just stated playing their games recently, but you completely ruin your credibility when you start your argument with an "Eh, I guess elden ring was AIGHT" You can make your argument without that the Brian Griffin preface.
Great video. I started with From and this series with Dark Souls back in college. I've loved the series because it wasn't arbitrarily difficult, it was challenging but fair and interesting. With Elden Ring though, we have reached a point where From is designing things to be intentionally and arbitrarily difficult for its own sake just because they have an image to maintain. And the fanbase is unbearable. It's a cult now. The cult of "difficulty fetishists worshipping flawless Miyzaki". The game has no flaws, it is perfect because it is hard and it is hard because it is perfect. Any and all criticisms are met with "git gud" and gatekeeping. It's absolutely horrible. Just because it's possible to beat these bosses, and I have, doesn't make them fun, fair, or good. From needs to take a step back.
They cant take a step back (and shouldnt). They have a playerbase of hardcore players who have been getting better and better at their games over the last 15 years. If they step the difficulty down, those players are going to steamroll everything and be bored out of their minds. I think the harsh truth is that they never should have made Elden Ring appeal to casual players. Now they have 2 different camps of people. The casuals want things easier and the hardcore vets want it harder.
@@TheUnsungOne I think they can afford to chill out without necessarily lowering the difficulty to a significant degree. The problem most people have with the bosses is that they "have no openings". Obviously it isn't a true statement, but it's pretty close to being true. If you time things perfectly, you just barely have enough time to land a charged heavy. Then the boss leaps away or starts another heavily armored combo that chunks your health and knocks you flat. Why not just let them stay vulnerable for a second or two. Stop letting bosses read your input and instantly leap across the screen or throw a projectile at you if you heal at a distance, or initiate their own attack at the last second if you decide to be the first to attack. Let the player have more opportunities to dictate the flow of the fight, not just force us to play the boss' game the whole time. Let us actually interrupt boss combos with properly timed guard counters for instance. Or they could give more bosses a "shackle" type item that gives the player a distinct advantage without just winning the fight outright like spirit ashes often do. Like turning off or limiting Malenia's waterfowl or healing ability. The games would still be hard, but not as unreasonable and arbitrarily so. The original Souls games were never difficult for difficulty's sake.
elden ring gives you everything you need to make the game easy to play..... all I hear here is excuses, u can use multiplayer or summons (just use them if its too difficult for u and ignore the comments easy fix) come on man lol. and for the dlc just get the Scadutree Blessing, explore, the map is HUGE and we got new weapons and spells to try. I dont rush the game I enjoy idc if ppl beat it in 2 hours I will take my time. cuz it is a masterpiece and so far the only game so far that engage me to explore every single corner.
memes are just the solidification of people's minds, what they think. Elden Ring and all Souls games are made to be difficult, its supposed to be at the top of the mountain, waiting for those who wants a challenge. i remember when i started playing DS2 i got beat to DragonRider over and over again, until i learned how to cheese him. and with time i learned to read his moves and today hes a challenge no more. the game has its mechanics, its pretty possible. all depends on your skills and how far you're willing to go with what you got. some change builds others simply keep trying, and some ppl relies on luck alone. but none of those have less value or anything, that's just different ways to play. Souls games are peak performance exactly to make ppl's brains work and figure ways to win. theres no need for an easy mode. use summons, use weapons considered "overpower" if you feel like to, have no shame from it.
this video is well made, and i think your criticism about fromsoft's boss design and the community's elitism is extremely vaild. i do think there's some things about elden ring that you might be overlooking though. you address it in this video as the hardest souls game yet, but elden ring gives you tools no other souls game has to make the game easier and more accessible to new or less skilled players. if you are struggling on a boss, you are not required to stay there and continue fighting it until its dead. you are given summons, countless different weapon types to fit your playstyle, buffs to help you melt bosses, and if that still isnt enough, you can always get some help via multiplayer. in the case of its dlc, you're given the option to use upgrade materials throughout the shadow realm to permanently increase the damage and defense of yourself and summons. they put this system into place so you cant really be "overleveled" for the dlc, but unfortunately people have been getting into the dlc, going straight for bosses instead of exploring, and being punished for being essentially level 1. either way, it's important not to look at souls games as a collection of bosses. while they certainly are the main focus in terms of progression, these games offer much more in the world outside of the arenas (especially elden ring!)
I dont have any opinions about fromsoft games but I do have complain about modern video game bosses. One of it is Magnamalo in Monster Hunter Rise. That monster isnt fun for me. It throws so many attacks and waiting for an opening isnt as engaging like Seregios. Heck, even fighting Plesioth and Tigrex is more fun.
Magnamalo is definitely a tricky monster to fight, but at least Monster Hunter is a very forgiving series these days. In the PS2 and PSP era, the hitboxes were absurd, and you didn't have gimmicks like the wirebug or mantles to help you out. The series made great strides in making the newer entries fun for players of all skill levels. There's a nice difficulty curve between low, high, master rank, and postgame - so when you first fight Magnamalo in low rank, he's rather tame. By the time you fight him in special investigations, the game can crank up his aggressiveness because you're already familiar with him. But yeah, a few monsters in Sunbreak are pretty grueling. Violet Mizutsune and Flaming Espinas are not my idea of a good time.
@@soratheorangejuicemascot5809 What I meant is that, no offense, but you are not very good at the game if you're struggling with him, and he isn't hard at all. Late game, and especially sunbreak fights, will be impossible for if magna is a wall for you.
This fanbase is miserable and was completely destroyed by normies from the two extreme positions: people who don't want any difficult and people who get all their affirmation from bearing difficult games. It's a shame, because if From felt free making the games they wanted instead of memeable Bandai Namco shareholder and fanbase ones, the ideal difficult would be set.
This game makes me want to play Dark Souls 2. I hate Dark Souls 2, but that was a time when stamina was honest and roll-baiting attack animations were reserved only as a final boss' gotcha instead of its proliferation onto every enemy in the game.
Honestly I'd Still recommend Elden Ring or Sekiro or Demon Souls to newcomers. The Bosses are absurd but also the playable character is absurd, it cuts both ways :D The difference between new Fromsoft and old Fromsoft is New: is what Tekken community would refer as "Knowledge Check", you have to know a long list of moves to knowledge check the player. If you want to learn how to fight Bosses ask fighting game player don't ask random redditors or influencers, those guys have a whole science for this kind of thing. Old: is a Gimmick check, you know Old Hero is blind or you don't. The real question is- is it more of the same? And I'd say...I wish we borrowed more from Nioh or Dragon's Dogma.
This!! You can be so OP in this DLC it becomes ridicuous. There are weapons and builds that shred everything. And its not just one weapon, you can make so many broken builds. You dont wanna learn the bosses moves? play a throwable spear build and just run around the boss shooting fire spears
I agree. First, to silence all the Git Gudders, I have beaten and platinumed Elden Ring without summons. I have Platinumed Sekiro twice, and played it charmless with the Demon Bell. I have platinumed Bloodborne and Armored Core Vi, and beaten every game since Demon's Souls for the PS3, with the exception of DS2 which was just bad in my humble opinion. Now that the nerd-cred is out of the way, here is my perspective. Elden Ring base game isn't too hard, but it is extremely poorly balanced and designed in some parts. Gang bosses like Godskin Duo, silly attack delays in fights like Margit and Radagon, and horrible attacks that are nigh impossible to learn the dodge timing for without outside help like Malenia's Waterfowl Dance. (And let's not even talk about the camera.) These things really bring down the quality of the game as a whole. (Among other things.) Frankly, I genuinely think that the bosses in Elden Ring are for the most part absolutely atrocious. And that is not even looking at the fact that the game only has around 10 bosses that are not reused in multiple places. I genuinely agree that the best balanced boss in the game is Godrick, in spite of being a rather dull boss in terms of moves and design. Unfortunately the DLC doesn't really solve or improve on this. Now there is instead a new collectable item that can be used to make the game easier, which has become the new "beat the game without this" type of arbitrary difficulty for challenge runners to make content out of. This isn't a bad thing, but it doesn't solve the problems that make the bosses bad. Now the bosses have longer unpunishable combos than ever, and the camera and hit boxes are a bigger issue than ever. Now for summons... the Spirit Ashes is the single most broken and unbalanced mechanic in all From Software games I have ever played. It is so poorly balanced that a Dung Eater or a Mimic Tear can beat both the final bosses of the game by themselves without you lifting a finger. (I quit out after testing this because I actually like to play the game myself.) Not only are summons OP, they break the Boss AI so that it does not target the player. So yes, these games are hard, but I would argue that they are not hard in a good way. They are hard because they are poorly designed. The best games are actually Armored Core VI, and Sekiro, because these games have a set difficulty and then it is just up to the player to beat it. The two main distinctive factors is that these two games, do not have a level system. Your stats are mostly predetermined, and well balanced for the challenge you are about to face next. In Elden Ring, when you are struggling against a boss you wonder whether you are the right level for that challenge, while in Sekiro, you know that you just need to get good and it doesn't feel like an insurmountable task. Secondly, these games don't have I-frames on their dodges, so that you are never left wondering whether you just missed the timing or whether you shouldn't even be trying to dodge certain moves. Sekiro is an absolute masterpiece (though it does have it's flaws too) while the souls games are just good. In fact, with the exception of the Blazing/Sakura Bull bosses, I would say that the worst boss in Sekiro (whoever may be deserving of that title) is better than the best bosses in Elden Ring. I sincerely hope that From Software will stop trying to one-up themselves in terms of "difficulty" because difficulty without good design and balance is not what makes a game good. Combine that with a rushed development and you get things like DS2 spambushes and gang bosses.
I'm not sure if anyone at FromSoft ever admitted to this in an interview, but I 100% believe the game was not designed for solo play. When you consider how many spirit summons there are, plus the fact that you can level them up, and you couple that with bosses leaving you with very small windows of opportunity, you've got a game that's just a step shy from outright telling the player "hey pal, you should be summoning." Of course, since this is FromSoft, the fanbase took it upon themselves to approach this game with the same mindset they approached Demon's Souls/Dark Souls with. If FromSoft didn't want you to summon, they'd pull them out like they did with Sekiro, not add more. Elden Ring is a multiplayer game at heart, which is why it's not as great of a single player experience as their previous games.
@@RushHourWeekend I don't think I agree with that because as I mentioned, some summons just break the game. So if that is true, the game is either unfinished, unpolished, or intentionally unbalanced, and I don't think that From Software are that incompetent.
Leaving a comment just for algorithm. I was a huge Fromsoftware Fan but their new Design Philosophy and the absolutely toxic fanbase killed it for me. I thank you for speaking out. I feel 100% the same
From Software with Elden Ring pretty much has fallen in the same trap as so many other developers who tried to copy the Dark Souls & Bloodborne Formula: These games never were about being unforgivingly hard, they managed the rarely achieved piece of art of a PERFECT balancing between challenge and fairness, in these former games, whenever you died you could IMMEDEATLY tell WHY you failed (at least when you paid attention) like "Oh, shouldn't have made that step at that time" or "damn, should have watched and better maintained my Stamina" or "Damn, I do way too few damage and need to upgrade my weapon".....since Elden Ring they went the route of all their so far rather bad copy cats and thought "It just needs to be hard to be a true souls experience" and threw everything else out of the window. And of course, whenever you bring this up, the fanbase will just ignoringly yell "GIT GUT" at you.
Mixed reviews in steam do not belong to souls community. 95% of negative review were made by new players that just got in the Elden Ring because of how popular it is. The original souls community is what has all the positive part with all these "git gud" statement. But they always forget that not everyone is a gigachad with reaction of a machine and adaptation of a virus. Not everyone was born under Miyazaki's table to call every his creation "a 10/10 flawless masterepiece". But I understood a long time ago that souls community is the worst single-player games community ever in history. I know a lot of bad communities in multi-player games and it's not a surprise. But in single-player this behavior is straight up dumb and looks as cringe as humanly possible.
I found elden ring and every souls game quite easy I don't understand why people think their so difficult, sure sometimes you die because you get careless but their not difficult lol. Go play dead rising 1 and complete that game without losing a single survivor, or halo 2 legendry without gliching just to name a couple of actual hard games, souls games are nothing by comparison.
I'm playing the dlc in NG +5 she I'm chillin so far. It's only my second FromSoft game as well. I'm genuinely unsure what all these dudes are complaining about.
Creator said he was more disappointed that the difficulty was the focus. Not the fun. For all you know he beat it, and still didn't really have fun. Have you never completed a challenge like that? Something that you COULD do, DID do, but didn't have fun doing? Sounds like that's the complaint. You're basically proving his point. Didn't listen to a word he said, went straight for the meme.
The DLC is hard, I played trough a lot of it and one thing I noticed is that Fromsoftawe is just trying to make their game as unaccessible as possible. When the first reviews of the base game arrived they were all about the accessibility of the game for new players and now that accessibility is gone, because fromsoftware makes you wait 5 whole minutes before giving you the opportunity of attacking a boss and the community criticizes your playstile.
Its because they have given us sooo many way of broking the game in the DLC. Why do you insist on tring to use a strategy that doesnt work!? Why cant you adapt? if you just want to hit your head on a wall and then bitch when it doesnt work thats on you When we say GIT GUD its not just to mock others, we actually mean it!! GIT GUD means use broken ash of wars, sorceries, incantations. Use summons, cheese and cheat. All that matters is to win
tell me how out of touch you are with the current bosses when you say they're not fun anymore and i'm having the time of my life with this dlc with so many of them. The dlc is literally a endgame area for your build. I understand your frustration with the community, but frankly it literally is a skill issue. You learn the boss pattern, you find the safe moveset, and you attack back. that's soul design. When from innovates and makes sekiro a combat that is actually a lot more engaging people refund it because they thought it was dark souls but wasn't. the inherent need to give the player the option to have 100% invulnerability asks for these bosses to up the ante. the better you are at making yourself safe the easier the bosses get. I'm literally seeing people forget jumping can be used to dodge abilities on this DLC and the game is straight up asking for people to use it. So many Rellana clears that got snuffed because people refuse to engage with what the intended design is. You can't change that. The dev wants you to use your tools at your disposal. Don't want to roll? then get a build that facilitates that. But don't come here saying the dlc is hard when you can explore the map, collect all the scadutrees and literally make their damage shrink to 8 hits. that's such a drastic difference from the base game's threeshot that its insane how people are misunderstanding how the dlc's levelling works, its not your level or build that matters for defense, but the scadutrees. you can be naked and still tank better than a fully armored character if you have 10 scadutrees vs 1. Is it a good design? not really, but it brings the same feeling of starting the game fresh again, which is the whole point of it for people who had the cheesiest builds in the game. Bleed still feels mandatory to guarantee clears during progressing through the game, and that's just a inherent problem with elden ring, it wants you to use these buildup mechanics as much as possible, so do it. The problem is precisely wanting to stay in the past like your video clearly shows you want to. You want mechanic only bosses like armored spider to be more prevalent, and those are historically the worst bosses in the series.
Elden Ring as a whole is a giant knowledge check the DLC just ramps this shit up to 101/10. Know what pre-animations and audio cues leads to what attack and react accordingly. Know your timing window and then seize the advantage without over committing to the attack and getting punished. In that sense yes "skill issue" if you are still bashing your head at bosses expecting a different outcome but then again we shouldn't be expecting anything different since the entire game is just this.
You don’t think you can communicate because no one wants to. You’re being demeaning to the fanbase in the first minute of this video, why would any of us have any reason to have a discussion with you?
🤷🏻♂️Lol nope. Fanbase was never reasonable and were always demeaning though.... Any opinion that doesn't start by sucking the game off is attacked by most of the fanbase. I love the intensity of the new DLC but the player mechanics are so bland by comparison to the bosses. Literally nothing you can wield is particularly cool, it all feels like boring band aids, while the bosses have sick movesets. Elden ring had me falling asleep at times the open world was so tedious and repetitive, despite new areas, it's virtually the same enemies bar a couple extra unique per area. Any game with this is a turn off. The few reasonable fans remain so, amongst the shrieking mass of hateful fanboys.
I honestly think the game isn't for you. Yeah it's difficult but there's so many tools to help you with the game. There's a plethora of different builds you can use and summons as well. People also need to realize that you need to get the new buff mechanic to make it doable you won't get 2 tapped anymore if you get them.
I admire Armored Core 6 for sticking to the structure of the series instead of becoming Dark Souls in a mech. Here's hoping the potential 4 Answer/Verdict Day-style sequel brings back sniper rifles and tones down on the stagger; they're really close to perfecting their formula.
Thank you for highlighting the retarded blanket statement of "git gud" stiffles any sort of discussion. This isnt exclusive to Dark Souls, literally any community with a hard game will resort to that statement whenever someone complains, be the complaint legitimate or not. I will say though that I disagree on the idea that players brought this on to themselves. Remember, players, generally speaking, know what they like but don´t know what they want. It´s a bit rich to expect players to design the game for you so the onus is on from software to harness the feedback into something that makes for an enjoyable game. Sure, the playerbase did clamour for more of these types of bosses in the early souls era but what most wanted were engaging duels, not for fromsoftware to use the same template for every fucking boss. But I still get the critique, and people have definitely been way too obsessed with the souls difficulty so they at least bear some need for introspection...
I'm not alone! Sadly the FS fanbase and the gaming industry has now decided that Miyazaki Hidetaka is bigger than god and everything he does is flawlessly perfect. ER has among the worst camera ever, the Bayle boss on the DLC broke me, plus the input lags, input queues and button registry errors kicks ialso incredibly hard during that awful boss fight. The problem is that FS and Miyazaki Hidetaka has now fully embraced the meme/streaming/meta culture. ER has a laughable in game story, but it's still the most memed game ever, because it's so easy to remember that the bosses were uttering, because they actually tells so little. It's just either "O' tree", "O' praise", "O holy" or just one liners with so few words that a 80's Action star gets ashamed. FS is ruining the industry now. Nintendo had never getting away if now Bowser/Ganon had a sudden leaping/flying tracking grab with delaying which is a insta-kill along with an abysmal camera and lock-on mechanic who constantly breaks. But FS can getting away with that nonsense completely unscratched
it really just seems like the modern fromsoft formula isn't your cup of tea. that's completely fine, but if that is the case, stop playing the games. i wouldn't try to play a platformer when i know i hate platformers and i know i'm not good at them, and then whine and complain that the platformer is too difficult. i'm not gonna make false claims that the developers have created impossible platforming challenges just because i can't succeed. if you're genuinely dreading fighting the boss that comes next, then this is clearly not your kind of game. also, fromsoft has always made the dlcs harder than the base game. this isn't some new concept or something that's wrong with modern fromsoft. look at dark souls 1. artorias, manus, and even sanctuary guardian were all harder than most, if not all bosses in the base game. they've been doing that for years, and you're only just now realizing that? fromsoft isn't catering to the community or new players either. they were surprised when elden ring was such a massive hit, and miyazaki has said that elden ring was close to his ideal game. they're clearly making the games they want to make, so it's disingenious to try and claim that they're catering to the dogshit fanbase. the only reason we don't have puzzle bosses anymore is 1) the regular bosses are far more engaging. and 2) the old puzzle bosses were either extremely jank or just straight up boring for subsequent playthroughs. look at bed of chaos or dragon god. bed of chaos being a poorly made rushed piece of garbage, and dragon god being a boring slog that plays out the same way in every playthrough. i'd love for them to go back and try making puzzle bosses again, but it's clear they're focusing on what they're good at now. you can't unironically say that the moonlight butterfly is a more engaging fight than anything from ds2 to now. with every subsequent game they just made the bosses more fun and enjoyable to experience. going back to the elden ring dlc, it isn't even that hard. i'm a complete average joe and i was able to beat every boss in less than 20 deaths (except for the final boss.) i think the final boss really is the only example in the dlc of a boss that's overtuned and just hard for the sake of being hard. it's not fun, the rhythm isn't that engaging, it's an aoe spam nightmare in second phase, and beating it isn't rewarding at all. at the end of the day, why play a game that you don't enjoy playing? if you don't like elden ring's combat or boss fights, don't play it. there are thousands of games out there that would suit your taste that you'll probably like infinitely more than elden ring. if you don't like fighting the bosses, don't beat your head against the wall to try and beat them while complaining along the way, just so you can say you beat the boss so that you can "have an opinion" on the game. just don't play it! fromsoft games have always been for their niche cult following, but as time has gone on it seems like the more and more people that discover and want to play the games, the more these people want the games to be more accessible. these games aren't made for everyone. just like how no game is made for everyone. there are games that appeal to a wide demographic like story games or sports games, but not every game should be enjoyable to everyone. just how not everyone can like everything. there will always be someone out there who you can't please, no matter what you do. so just be yourself, and don't try to please other people.
Dude, if someone can beat this game 7 times in a row at level 1 hitless, im pretty sure theres a clear skill issue here. I get it, you're upset because you cant handle taking loss after loss and cant fathom the idea of taking the time to learn attack patterns. A good amount of people wont think that's fun or call others who enjoy that sadist's and thats completely fine. You said it nest when you said "i knew the expansion wasnt gonna be for me" but instead of complaining and ranting about how something you know isnt for you, isnt, well, for you. Souls games and bosses are like a dance, and alot of people, including myself absolutely love learning how to dance along with the boss. Instead of insulting and attacking others for enjoying the game either learn how to play them or jusy play something else.
he says "So many bosses have devolved to waiting for the boss to do one move and counter" And im like WTF!? Dude thats the basis of every goddamn boss fight since the creation of video games!!!! from Supermario's bowser to GOW Do you even listen to yourself?
@@ghostface5559 you can run away, you can dodge, you can block, you can parry You can tank You can short teleport What do you want? To be able to fly? Since when has a souls game become a puzzle? This is not Zelda where a boss can be killed by some shenanigans outside the battle and you are just presented with a cutscene
Perhaps, but the windows have gotten so small, and the attack strings so huge, sometimes with unaviodable small hits in between, random aoe lightning going on, weird hitbox of the enemy's centipede appendage, bad camera angle, weapon doesn't even reach because the lock on of the boss is above the ground for some reason, or any number of things. It ain't fun anymore. Sekiro had a great basic system, but it died so we could have more souls roll-slop. They need to change it up, and for god's sake, no more open world. It is tedious and boring and just tempting you to read guides.
Good boss (usually espoused in classic games and even older Fromsoft titles): use the mechanics and weaknesses of the boss, alongside your skill and strategy to create an opening and take it Modern boss: wait for the boss to finish flailing around, possibly parry or roll until he stands there for a few seconds and you can actually damage him
@@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS most of your points are valid and to that I’ll say doesn’t that just mean you have to play more carefully ? Other than the camera angle shtick which has always been a problem with big bosses and highly mobile ones. And there isn’t much you can do for that other than learning to play without locking. But again I’ll say why is it that you call this game bad for doing that? There are only so many ways designers make game bosses hard. You get bullet sponges, you get bullshit mechanics requiring puzzles to counter and you get bosses who fight hard and aggressively (like GOW and Fromsoft) So when you take for example to dancing lion, his blood bar is decent, he is meant to dance all over the screen. He hits hard but is slower than you so you can run circles around him for days but when close to him you need to be careful. He is hard yes, but is he broken? No! Just look at how he fights and adapt. What you call hard now is the same people called demon souls years ago. Nowadays they demon souls is called the easiest of the bunch cuz everyone and their mothers knows to turtle behind a shield. Gamers have gotten better. Games need to improve to push them But strangely enough maybe you still insist on playing the game like Sekiro I’m not here talking like a pro. I’ve died to the dlc, heck I died to the final boss of the main game so many times I had to restart the game twice and it still took me 2 years before I cheesed him with a magic build. But do I think the boss was bad (other than having to run behind the guy forever), No. cuz I knew deep within that it was all on me Finally I’ll say again, Fromsoft has their style. They could have given us DS7 or Bloodborne 10 or Sekiro remaster remix but they instead seek to try various paths and then combine all their good ideas. I like that they don’t stop to Cather to the needs of people of complain cuz the game hurt their feelings otherwise we will be having another Ubisoft in our hands
dude you are allowed to bitch about difficulty and FS not cathering to your needs But the moment you start insulting Boss designs, calling them bad and uninteresting just because you are unable to see when to attack them I call Foul.
If being unable to see when to attack makes them bad and uninteresting to him, then what’s the problem? It’s like you forgot that differing opinions exist.
@@Galladiator42 hitler had his opinion Why the fuck did people bitch about that? Racist have their opinions, why do people blame them? There is having an opinion and there is coming online to preach them like they are facts
@tatienouorest3358 your examples are so ironic because they're exactly the types to come on to the internet and preach their opinions as facts. And furthermore, you're preaching your opinions all over the place in this comment section. So why should we listen to you, if you're doing the exact same thing??
@@abyssalrose6948 thé argument given by every Racist ever. I’m pretty sure I haven’t given even a single point of my opinion anywhere. All I gave were denials of his points Now if you can’t see the difference that’s your problem I don’t need to come online and preach my opinion as facts
Saying someone is "bitching" about their own takes on the gaming industry is your opinion. Saying that there's ways to "break the game" all in the name of victory is an opinion. Yes you've also listed in game mechanics, but if a game requires you to "cheat or cheese" in order to beat it, then it's not a very good game. The combat system is flawed. That's OP's argument. The game itself isn't the problem, it's the developers behind it, but you want to be blinded by the Elden Nostalgia Goggles so bad it's almost embarrassing. The fact that you can't distinguish OP's criticism of a combat system that's been stuck in the same difficult = good game is your problem. You're literally proving OPs point. Where you ER fanboys don't want to have meaningful conversations, or take valid criticism, because all you have in response is akin to a school yard version of neeneer neener.
I have a friend who played Sekiro and never bothered to learn how to Parry people said the game was hard blablabla! I introduced him to the souls games, his first was bloodborne. He played Sekiro and his strategy was to run around bosses and attack when he could. his fights were longer for sure but on average he defeated his bosses with less tries as compared to me. So dont go blaming the game just cuz you suck or you dont want to find the style that works for you. Its on you if you Suck! Elden ring gives you soooo many ways to broke the game, the weapon arts are busted in the dlc and the weapons themselves are almost memes
The so called hard core gamers like it so they can brag about how elite they are. 😂 I don't buy any game that doesn't have difficulty settings. These guys literally leave money on the table from people like me.
Just play Elden ring with summons and stuff the game has things in it to make it easier it's on you if you complain about the difficulty if you set yourself a summonless, magicless run. You imposed those rules, the game didn't.
It's not too difficult, it's just not made for you. We don't want you coming into our game series (a game series you don't even like) and trying to get the devs to change it to fit you. It's not for you. Some of us want more challenge. Also if you haven't played the DLC how do you know the bosses are doing the things you say? You sound like Quantum.
If you criticize a game you’ve played: “If you don’t like it, don’t play it.” If you criticize a game you haven’t played: “If you haven’t played it, how do you know?” You can’t win. Just don’t ever criticize anything I guess.
From games are about learning the systems. As a From veteran who doesn't like hard games, I found a lot of Elden Ring to be significantly easier than other games in the series. The thing with Elden Ring though, they do some stuff with the bosses like you mention where they string BS moves, but the point is to be more strategic. You've got so many weapons, tool, ashes of war, spirit ashes, spells, talismans etc. So where you could just rush the old games with any build, you now need to think about your opponents strengths and weaknesses. A lot of the boss fights in the game seem to imply you should be summoning. In fact, community be damned, I think that's always been the case. I'd highly recommend the Elden Ring let's play by RKG to see this in action (though it's a beefy series that's not anywhere near the end). But yeah, don't listen to idiots who have nothing to contribute to discussion, because the camaraderie is always what From games have been about. Miyazaki I'm sure wouldn't approve of such fans.
Soulslike games are for niche audiences, not for global audiences. The base game oversold due the pandemic. I played the base game and it was fine but I would never get jebaited into buying DLC. You all should have known better -- DLC always gets negative reviews in any game.
Hold up. You DON'T need to strain for 10 hrs while taking a s..t? Man, I really need to up my s..tting game. Off to the toilet to git gud, I guess.
but remember, using laxatives or eating more fiber is cheating
Needing two or 3 attempts to beat a boss makes me think of hard mode in Stellar Blade. I think bad design needs to be criticized because a challenging game is not one where you have a boss with 5 large combos that can one or two hit you while having only one combo that leaves an opening for you to attack
What you say is fact, no fiction. They've been this way since DS1 on Xbox360. I played Ninja Gaiden games as a kid for fun before I discovered Dark Souls. After that, I continued playing souls games exclusively solo. Bloodborne, Sekiro, Nioh, Code Vein, Lies of P...I don't have a skill issue in the slightest. I beat Lies of P on stream and not a single boss killed me 10 times. They say its the hardest souls-like ever but I disagree. Nioh 2 and Sekrio have the best, fastest, most responsive and technically deep combat of them all, they're harder and they're the best ones.
I play these games for build variety, exploration of an imaginative and threatening world with the bonfire death system, and the many different weapons and enemies. Those 3 things kind of define souls-likes and its why I play. I care nothing for the community or their handicapped opinions.
I love the combat in nioh 2
Arguably, Sekiro is much more difficult than elden ring. I was able to go through the whole fromsoft collection except for Sekiro, I died so many times that my cat got dragonrot in real life before I was even able to beat lady butterfly.
When comparing Sekiro to Elden Ring, you've gotta take into consideration that Sekiro needs to be completed completely solo, whereas you can summon in Elden Ring. When talking about soloing Elden Ring, the difficulty level feels closer to Sekiro, and now with the DLC it appears to be even harder. From my experience, each Miyazaki-directed game since Armored Core 4 has felt more difficult than the last, and I've played all of them.
I've had the same experience with Sekiro lol, it is far harder than Elden Ring to the point where I haven't beaten Sekiro yet. However, I love the gameplay of sekiro and the difficulty (for the most part) doesn't bother me because I love the combat mechanics so much (and I will eventually finish it as a result.). In comparison, I've beaten every boss in Elden Ring and almost all in the DLC however it was a much less fun experience. I still enjoy Elden Ring, but purely for the exploration aspects. The combat just feels awful, and I think that would be the case regardless of if the bosses were hard or easy. Just glad Mimic Tear works as a skip button so I can get to the exploration instead.
wtf sekiro is easiest coz you can parry even non weapon attack, while in sekiro you cant parry big sword and big monster, you can just roll
From the perspective of someone who's already beaten the DLC and played these games for a long time now: I think it's perfectly fine to criticize something like this.
With that being said, this genre in the recent past has been pretty niche-to say the very least-and Elden Ring might have been developed as a way to bring new players in but, at the end of the day, it still comes down to the idea that Miyazaki-san and company are still making these games (and their DLCs) exactly as they want to make them, and they'll likely continue to do so. That being these games for a niche audience, it's kind of inescapable: they work as intended for aforementioned audiences, their target demographic.
The games are successful at accomplishing what they do because of this, if they were to switch it up I'd imagine that they would be less so. So tackling the game(s) and DLC(s) with a unique approach within the context of what can be done might be the only way to beat them, and that needs to be considered the acceptable method(s), that's where this "git gud" phrasing comes from: find a way to defeat bosses within the game's mechanics, or don't.
If people don't want to then there are an innumerable amount of games out there to play instead. But everyone should have the right to voice their dissenting opinions and be heard on the subject, there's nothing wrong with any of that.
Weren't all souls DLC annoyingly difficult? I remember raging from Ringed City and the snowy lands one.
Played and finished all Soulsborne games including their DLC's, nope, Elden Ring's base game already adds a lot of "Extra Cheap Bullshit". Haven't played the DLC yet and not planning to due to the base games crappy balancing.
@@Justforvisit lol cope.
They really put Sekiro and Bloodborne bosses into elden ring dlc, my main two issues is that they are too aggressive and hit for 1500 damage 7/10 hits, there is cool new weapons but using any is suicide on most bosses 😢
I'm almost done with the dlc and i'm using ultra greatswords and the new ugs with the new ashes of war... I don't get what people are talking about this. two or three charged R2s are stunning these bosses too so I just think people are not keeping up with the mechanics at this point
9:49 I mean yes, we're already there. Did you forget the grafted monstrosity that one shots you at the beginning of Elden Ring?
The issue isn't necessarily that it's hard; it's that the way in which difficulty is achieved is cheap. Things like bosses canceling animations to react to your healing, or the massive flashy anime combos that they all have, or the insane tracking which gives you no choice but to roll, these issues have been present since ds3 and perhaps earlier. Each boss in the original dark souls and especially demons souls asked you to use the mechanics in a unique way. For instance, the bell gargoyles were a memorable encounter because you had to manage two boss enemies at once and create openings within their simple patterns. The bell gargoyles and the way their attacks overlap create a challenge that makes you think deeper than "ok what frame do i roll on and can i sneak in one more attack before the next 30 hit combo kicks in"
SO! MUCH! THIS!
From Software completely changed their once winning formula "Challenging but always fair" to "HARD IS ALL WE NEED", like all the other competitors who tried to copy that success before and never understood WHY it was so beloved in the first place! And now From Software seems to have forgotten it themselves!
Just look up Elden Ring DLC no damage run. There are people who have no amour and manage to not get hit once by these bosses. This means there is a technically perefect way to beat the game it's just that there is a learning curve to a lot of it.
I’m in ng+2 and it’s really not as hard as you guys are saying. Sure it’s def not easy and I’m dying a lot but I’m still having a blast. The game really gives you all the tools you need to get through it. Multiple bosses I’ve killed in 1-3 tries.
DLC on NG+ is actually somewhat easier than on NG because you retain your Scadutree Fragments. (Assuming that you collected them on previous playthroughs.)
@@adrianalexanderveidt344 lol no, my first dlc playthrough was ng2
@@nyclurker603 You realize that you are not disagreeing with what I wrote, right? I said that the DLC is easier on NG+ than it is on NG IF you collected the fragments during NG.
I did not say that the DLC was easier in NG+ if its your first time playing it.
The only boss I actually enjoyed in sote was messmer. At least he has openings, even though he is powerful and flashy. They tell me I'll look back and think "wow" that I killed the boss, but I don't. I just feel annoyed thinking about how stupid they were, and glad I'm done with them.
100% agree. He was the one that was best balanced in terms of attack timings, telegraphs, and punishment windows. (The one exception is when his snake goes wild in his second phase and the dodge timings get wacky.)
i like souls games cuz there balanced, cuz i never feel like its the game fault when i die and i feel it is my own mistake the made me die
9:48 what are you talking about? Didn't we basically pass that 10 years ago, with the Dark Souls 1 tutorial boss?
Ya know
i kinda expected this , and this si the reason i didnt buy the DLC yet. I am surprised to see this discussion finally happening.
I would also like to say that for me personaly Lies of P is a far more enjoyable souls game then Elden Ring.
Have you considered that the devs... Just want to make more challenging games?
If they did fromsoft wouldn't just make it artificially difficult like now.
Elden ring is my first fromsoft game and I mostly enjoyed it. However I like the early bosses way more than the late game. You and joseph anderson described it perfectly with the LONG combo strings that leaves an opening for 1 hit. That's why I start using the mimic tear. I like fighting the crucible knight and bell bearing hunter because you could dodge 1 or 3 hits or shield it for an opening.
Just play with summons and friends and have fun holy
@@awesomerieawesome2144 yep the mimic tear goes hard
@@makito106 Mimic Tear (even post-nerf) is effectively a skip button. At that point, why even fight the boss.
Clearly, you are wrong. Because the majority of people DO get an accomplishment from modern fromsoftware bosses. You are pretending your opinion is an objective fact - that their games are somehow objectively flawed in their boss design.
For whats its worth, i do think the balance of the damage is a little too high. 2 hits shouldnt kill you most of the time. But complaining about delayed attacks? Infinite combos? Come on. Just say you are not using the other mechanics of the game, and instead just trying to play it with rolling and R1.
Start using all the mechanics of the game, dont rely only in your reflexes. In elden ring's case, you NEED to use the guard counters. You need to learn how to jump certain attacks instead of rolling, to get a hit.
Fromsoftware did change their boss design. DS1 and DS2, with few exceptions, are essentially turn-based games. You wait for the enemy to finish one attack, then you attack. Ideally, you also use a shield, as those games were designed with the shield usage in mind for some enemies and attack types. So its a more passive game design.
This changed with bloodborne, where they wanted the pacing of the fight to be determined more by the player, instead of the enemy you're facing. If you try to play bloodborne like ds1 and 2, you'll find that most fights take forever. You must take the initiative and *keep* the pressure on. Don't let go.
Sekiro is the perfect culmination of this. If you claim sekiro is somehow flawed in its difficulty, then i'm sorry, but that is, at the end of the day, just a skill issue. The game is the most linear of From's catalogue, it has only one weapon/build: it's a game perfectly balanced for the character you're playing as. Most fights also dont kill you in 2 or 3 hits like Elden ring. Honestly, its the perfect difficulty, where the only thing that is stopping you from a no-damage run is skill; barely anything is left up to chance or random camera movements to screw you.
And its in sekiro where we see their new design philosophy that started in bloodborne take its full shape: it's not enough to just parry in that game, you must also identify when to attack to keep the posture bar of your enemy up. Every second you're not parrying or attacking, your enemy is essentially recovering HP. You need to be aggressive, you need to keep pressure. No backing off, no taking turns. Between enemy attacks, you need to land your own. You need to find your own openings, that you yourself create when parrying. Not by waiting for the enemy to allow you to hit them like in DS1 and DS2.
Elden ring continues to follow this design - a design that you clearly either didnt understand or doesnt like. But what the game wants from you is to keep the pressure and create your openings. The posture bar, while invisible, is still a thing. It rewards aggressive play by knocking down the enemy for a critical hit.
What elden ring does differently is that it expects you to manage to be aggressive in a multitude of ways: parrying, rolling, but also jumping and guard counters. Those are all necessary depending on the fight. Even horseback combat is important for some battles, like dragons. And, yes, summoning. Summoning is not just tacked on. Its a difficulty slider, aswell as an intentional mechanic for some moments of the game that were clearly designed for you to also have some help to fight multi-enemy battles.
All in all, elden ring with its extremely versatile ashes of war, summoning, new guard counter(which many people ignore and shouldnt) and jumping, added new and interseting ways to create openings from the bosses and enemies, instead of just waiting around for them to finish their ''infinite combo'' or just roll through some attacks. It's also important to keep atleast 2 different weapons in elden ring; its an open world game after all - it wants you to have more build variety than past games, to tackle different challenges in more effective ways.
Late game is still too unbalanced, with some fights really killing you in 2 hits, which i dislike. But thats a numbers problem. It's not their core game design philosophy thats wrong, of making the fights require more inquisitiviness and proactiveness from the player, instead of either just reflexes or waiting for your chance to attack.
TL;DR: Stop crying, go get good and start counter-attacking and breaking the bosses' posture, instead of pretending your opinion about game design is an objective fact.
don't design a game ever
yeah the dlc was fine for the most part, but it definitely pushes you to use everything you got, tools and gameplay mechanics wise, but thats the problem because people just dont use their head when playing these games. like just look at the community and you'll notice the swarms of people using white mask dual bleed uchis, or the 0 vigor mages that spam just 1 or 2 spells, whats the point in maximizing dps if youre then just gonna die to a single boss for multiple hours straight and whine about it online
Elden Ring makes the posture bar invisible, it is much harder for the player to react at all, and at least Malenia can ignore posture entirely. If Elden Ring is following the ideas set up by Sekiro it is done worse. By making the bar invisible they not only hide that information from the player, not only does this make the mechanic seem unimportant, but also random. Sekiro also allows for you to cancel the attack and generally has faster animations allowing for a much better reactive and aggressive play. Elden Ring by storing inputs makes it often impossible to react at all (for example, mid dodge pressing attack, and then before the character model commits to the attack the player realizes that they should instead dodge again... but now cannot) which deters players from being aggressive again. And the Malenia issue I will say is an issue that is only present with her (as far as I know), but it still shows that posture was not something deemed important enough to make sure she kept to the rules.
Another point is that the critical hits are far less important. In Sekiro the posture breaking is equivelant to the actual health. It is rare to beat a boss by damaging them rather than breaking their posture. Elden Ring is entirely different, with posture breaks doing wildly different damage across the board. I've even seen many different people recommend to not do the critical hits that posture breaks give you, and instead just hit them for normal.
So no, I think it does not make sense to say Elden Ring continues this design of being like Sekiro... but regardless what kind of game doesn't even tell you how to play? If somehow the creator of the video (as well as the hundreds of other people in the comments of this video, across different forums, and in the comments of other videos with the exact same critique) was unable to understand how to play the game then that is a powerful critique as well! I don't think I know of any other game which has as many people playing it "wrong" as Elden Ring.
I mean, half of the people defending Elden Ring have stories of completely relearning how the combat works. I was watching a video the other day where in the speaker said that it took him until Malenia to learn how the combat in Elden Ring works... which is pretty dumb. I'm glad he was able to find a way to enjoy the combat, I don't think pointing out the design problems invalidate the fun you can have, and Elden Ring is the best game to have this weird system in, precisely because of all the tools they give you.
i actually didnt use a lot of guard counters until Giaus and found theyre pretty effective against him.
@@human6613 I dont disagree hiding posture was a dumb move, but i think they did it because posture break isnt the only way to beat bosses in this game, thats mostly for str builds. Also no Malenia doesn't ignore posture, she just has certain attacks that let her break out of it, but its entirely possible to get her on the ground again when she does the next attack. She just has a hyper armor to being flinched twice, then shes vulnerable again. She's an extremely bullyable boss especially if you know how to use frost pots against her.
Difficulty has always been a narrative component in FS games. Just like its inspiration Berserk, there is something to be gained at struggling against a seemingly impossible enemy. Games as a product vs games as an art form. Its not as though the game doesn't give you the tools to succeed...
I think the problem isn't that the DLC is too difficult, it's more tedious than anything. Difficulty is a multi-layered conversation because there are a lot of variables, from player skill to build but I can only speak for myself, and I think "challenge" here has been mostly confused with arbitrarily bloating enemy damage output, HP and giving them excessively long combos.
I've been playing these games for a long time and can only wonder if any real objectivity or criticism never reached the developers because sweaty tryhards shut down any discussion with 'git gud', and referring to anyone with legitimate criticism as a casual or a newcomer to the series replete with reductive reasoning like "well of course it's hard, it's a FromSoft game." I'm sure I read a quote from Miyazaki years ago where he said that difficulty was never the point, but if that was the case it definitely is now, and I think we're reaching the point where it's just being hard for the sake of it, and it just isn't fun anymore.
For what it's worth, I hope they don't reduce the difficulty, but some bosses really do need to calm the fuck down for a second. My reaction after beating bosses like Messmer wasn't one of hard-won victory, it was "thank fuck that's over" and "I don't think I'll be doing that again".
And it really does boggle the mind that From is still using the same terrible, janky camera that has been present in their games for over a decade at this point, whilst continuing to populate its boss arenas with colossal enemies that cause the thing to have a seizure if you dare to lock on.
And the same from the vanilla Elden Ring with putting huge enemies in tiny rooms. They are literally repeating bad ideas like this and getting praise for it.
It is such an obnoxious tendency. It's as if the difficulty has become a shield from all criticism, and you get to dismiss anyone who doesn't agree as "not a true gamer, go play your casual CoD". I haven't played this DLC, but having played most of the FromSoft catalogue, and recently Lies of P, i was starting to get the sense that these games aren't really interestingly hard. Not anymore at least. It's not like a shmup where your brain is doing all sorts of work reading interesting and varied patterns, it's just tedious more than anything else. Claiming that the bosses aren't fun to fight isn't necessarily skill issue, it may just be that the guy/gal in question doesn''t like the fights lol.
i dont know dude. as someone who never was a fan of these games.. thsi shit has ALWAYS been difficult for the sake of being difficult... not a challenge or gimmicks
That's exactly wrong. The amazing reputation Dark Souls 1 & Bloodborne have come from that From Software managed to strike the perfect balance between challenge and fairness, every mistake you made was immedeattly or very shortly afterwards clear to you when you payed attention.
It was usually the copycats who went for "Just needs to be hard to be a good Soulsborne game" who never interested me because of that. Only other game that understood that was "Nioh".
And now From Software has fallen into that trap themselves with Elden Ring.
I'm not some FromSoft d rider, I just stated playing their games recently, but you completely ruin your credibility when you start your argument with an "Eh, I guess elden ring was AIGHT"
You can make your argument without that the Brian Griffin preface.
That's not how credibility works bro.
@@matsimurf_5900 yes it is.
he lost all credibility when he said the DLC bosses were bad just cuz he didnt know when to attack
@@matsimurf_5900 nah it definitely is
he lost his credibility by stating his opinion…?
Great video. I started with From and this series with Dark Souls back in college. I've loved the series because it wasn't arbitrarily difficult, it was challenging but fair and interesting. With Elden Ring though, we have reached a point where From is designing things to be intentionally and arbitrarily difficult for its own sake just because they have an image to maintain. And the fanbase is unbearable. It's a cult now. The cult of "difficulty fetishists worshipping flawless Miyzaki". The game has no flaws, it is perfect because it is hard and it is hard because it is perfect. Any and all criticisms are met with "git gud" and gatekeeping. It's absolutely horrible. Just because it's possible to beat these bosses, and I have, doesn't make them fun, fair, or good. From needs to take a step back.
Just not too many steps back... Considering shit like Nine Ball Seraph predates the entire soulslike genre...
They cant take a step back (and shouldnt). They have a playerbase of hardcore players who have been getting better and better at their games over the last 15 years. If they step the difficulty down, those players are going to steamroll everything and be bored out of their minds. I think the harsh truth is that they never should have made Elden Ring appeal to casual players. Now they have 2 different camps of people. The casuals want things easier and the hardcore vets want it harder.
@@TheUnsungOne I think they can afford to chill out without necessarily lowering the difficulty to a significant degree. The problem most people have with the bosses is that they "have no openings". Obviously it isn't a true statement, but it's pretty close to being true. If you time things perfectly, you just barely have enough time to land a charged heavy. Then the boss leaps away or starts another heavily armored combo that chunks your health and knocks you flat. Why not just let them stay vulnerable for a second or two. Stop letting bosses read your input and instantly leap across the screen or throw a projectile at you if you heal at a distance, or initiate their own attack at the last second if you decide to be the first to attack. Let the player have more opportunities to dictate the flow of the fight, not just force us to play the boss' game the whole time. Let us actually interrupt boss combos with properly timed guard counters for instance. Or they could give more bosses a "shackle" type item that gives the player a distinct advantage without just winning the fight outright like spirit ashes often do. Like turning off or limiting Malenia's waterfowl or healing ability. The games would still be hard, but not as unreasonable and arbitrarily so. The original Souls games were never difficult for difficulty's sake.
elden ring gives you everything you need to make the game easy to play..... all I hear here is excuses, u can use multiplayer or summons (just use them if its too difficult for u and ignore the comments easy fix) come on man lol. and for the dlc just get the Scadutree Blessing, explore, the map is HUGE and we got new weapons and spells to try. I dont rush the game I enjoy idc if ppl beat it in 2 hours I will take my time. cuz it is a masterpiece and so far the only game so far that engage me to explore every single corner.
memes are just the solidification of people's minds, what they think.
Elden Ring and all Souls games are made to be difficult, its supposed to be at the top of the mountain, waiting for those who wants a challenge. i remember when i started playing DS2 i got beat to DragonRider over and over again, until i learned how to cheese him. and with time i learned to read his moves and today hes a challenge no more.
the game has its mechanics, its pretty possible. all depends on your skills and how far you're willing to go with what you got. some change builds others simply keep trying, and some ppl relies on luck alone. but none of those have less value or anything, that's just different ways to play. Souls games are peak performance exactly to make ppl's brains work and figure ways to win. theres no need for an easy mode. use summons, use weapons considered "overpower" if you feel like to, have no shame from it.
Of the 25+ million players 22% have never reached the Roundtable Hold and over 25% have not killed Margit.
Well you need have higher than 85 IQ to reach Roundtable Hold since the game doesn't have quest markers. So I see how it's a problem for those 22%.
When did and where did you grab this statistic? As of right now steam shows a 43% on godskin duo. I doubt it changed in the span of a day
this video is well made, and i think your criticism about fromsoft's boss design and the community's elitism is extremely vaild. i do think there's some things about elden ring that you might be overlooking though.
you address it in this video as the hardest souls game yet, but elden ring gives you tools no other souls game has to make the game easier and more accessible to new or less skilled players. if you are struggling on a boss, you are not required to stay there and continue fighting it until its dead. you are given summons, countless different weapon types to fit your playstyle, buffs to help you melt bosses, and if that still isnt enough, you can always get some help via multiplayer.
in the case of its dlc, you're given the option to use upgrade materials throughout the shadow realm to permanently increase the damage and defense of yourself and summons. they put this system into place so you cant really be "overleveled" for the dlc, but unfortunately people have been getting into the dlc, going straight for bosses instead of exploring, and being punished for being essentially level 1.
either way, it's important not to look at souls games as a collection of bosses. while they certainly are the main focus in terms of progression, these games offer much more in the world outside of the arenas (especially elden ring!)
I dont have any opinions about fromsoft games but I do have complain about modern video game bosses. One of it is Magnamalo in Monster Hunter Rise. That monster isnt fun for me. It throws so many attacks and waiting for an opening isnt as engaging like Seregios. Heck, even fighting Plesioth and Tigrex is more fun.
Magnamalo is definitely a tricky monster to fight, but at least Monster Hunter is a very forgiving series these days. In the PS2 and PSP era, the hitboxes were absurd, and you didn't have gimmicks like the wirebug or mantles to help you out. The series made great strides in making the newer entries fun for players of all skill levels. There's a nice difficulty curve between low, high, master rank, and postgame - so when you first fight Magnamalo in low rank, he's rather tame. By the time you fight him in special investigations, the game can crank up his aggressiveness because you're already familiar with him.
But yeah, a few monsters in Sunbreak are pretty grueling. Violet Mizutsune and Flaming Espinas are not my idea of a good time.
@@RushHourWeekend I seen how Violet Mizutsune moves. I dont wanna deal with that.
Damn, struggling to find an opening against base game magnamalo is rough, to say the least.
@@yanribeiro7108 the best solution I found is to parry it with lance guard counter.
@@soratheorangejuicemascot5809 What I meant is that, no offense, but you are not very good at the game if you're struggling with him, and he isn't hard at all. Late game, and especially sunbreak fights, will be impossible for if magna is a wall for you.
"the dlc should have godrick type of difficulty bosses" who's gonna tell him ?
Yeah I got to say sekiro is way harder than elden ring
This fanbase is miserable and was completely destroyed by normies from the two extreme positions: people who don't want any difficult and people who get all their affirmation from bearing difficult games. It's a shame, because if From felt free making the games they wanted instead of memeable Bandai Namco shareholder and fanbase ones, the ideal difficult would be set.
100%. I loved the From community of old but especially with Elden Ring, it's lost its charm for the reasons you mention.
youre actually implying fromsoft didnt want to make elden ring
This game makes me want to play Dark Souls 2. I hate Dark Souls 2, but that was a time when stamina was honest and roll-baiting attack animations were reserved only as a final boss' gotcha instead of its proliferation onto every enemy in the game.
"more bosses like godrick" so more of the easiest boss in the game. Alrightt
Honestly I'd Still recommend Elden Ring or Sekiro or Demon Souls to newcomers. The Bosses are absurd but also the playable character is absurd, it cuts both ways :D
The difference between new Fromsoft and old Fromsoft is
New: is what Tekken community would refer as "Knowledge Check", you have to know a long list of moves to knowledge check the player. If you want to learn how to fight Bosses ask fighting game player don't ask random redditors or influencers, those guys have a whole science for this kind of thing.
Old: is a Gimmick check, you know Old Hero is blind or you don't.
The real question is- is it more of the same? And I'd say...I wish we borrowed more from Nioh or Dragon's Dogma.
This!!
You can be so OP in this DLC it becomes ridicuous. There are weapons and builds that shred everything. And its not just one weapon, you can make so many broken builds.
You dont wanna learn the bosses moves? play a throwable spear build and just run around the boss shooting fire spears
No thanks. Surge 2 was much better
I agree.
First, to silence all the Git Gudders, I have beaten and platinumed Elden Ring without summons. I have Platinumed Sekiro twice, and played it charmless with the Demon Bell. I have platinumed Bloodborne and Armored Core Vi, and beaten every game since Demon's Souls for the PS3, with the exception of DS2 which was just bad in my humble opinion. Now that the nerd-cred is out of the way, here is my perspective.
Elden Ring base game isn't too hard, but it is extremely poorly balanced and designed in some parts. Gang bosses like Godskin Duo, silly attack delays in fights like Margit and Radagon, and horrible attacks that are nigh impossible to learn the dodge timing for without outside help like Malenia's Waterfowl Dance. (And let's not even talk about the camera.) These things really bring down the quality of the game as a whole. (Among other things.) Frankly, I genuinely think that the bosses in Elden Ring are for the most part absolutely atrocious. And that is not even looking at the fact that the game only has around 10 bosses that are not reused in multiple places. I genuinely agree that the best balanced boss in the game is Godrick, in spite of being a rather dull boss in terms of moves and design.
Unfortunately the DLC doesn't really solve or improve on this. Now there is instead a new collectable item that can be used to make the game easier, which has become the new "beat the game without this" type of arbitrary difficulty for challenge runners to make content out of. This isn't a bad thing, but it doesn't solve the problems that make the bosses bad. Now the bosses have longer unpunishable combos than ever, and the camera and hit boxes are a bigger issue than ever.
Now for summons... the Spirit Ashes is the single most broken and unbalanced mechanic in all From Software games I have ever played. It is so poorly balanced that a Dung Eater or a Mimic Tear can beat both the final bosses of the game by themselves without you lifting a finger. (I quit out after testing this because I actually like to play the game myself.) Not only are summons OP, they break the Boss AI so that it does not target the player.
So yes, these games are hard, but I would argue that they are not hard in a good way. They are hard because they are poorly designed. The best games are actually Armored Core VI, and Sekiro, because these games have a set difficulty and then it is just up to the player to beat it. The two main distinctive factors is that these two games, do not have a level system. Your stats are mostly predetermined, and well balanced for the challenge you are about to face next. In Elden Ring, when you are struggling against a boss you wonder whether you are the right level for that challenge, while in Sekiro, you know that you just need to get good and it doesn't feel like an insurmountable task. Secondly, these games don't have I-frames on their dodges, so that you are never left wondering whether you just missed the timing or whether you shouldn't even be trying to dodge certain moves. Sekiro is an absolute masterpiece (though it does have it's flaws too) while the souls games are just good. In fact, with the exception of the Blazing/Sakura Bull bosses, I would say that the worst boss in Sekiro (whoever may be deserving of that title) is better than the best bosses in Elden Ring.
I sincerely hope that From Software will stop trying to one-up themselves in terms of "difficulty" because difficulty without good design and balance is not what makes a game good. Combine that with a rushed development and you get things like DS2 spambushes and gang bosses.
I'm not sure if anyone at FromSoft ever admitted to this in an interview, but I 100% believe the game was not designed for solo play. When you consider how many spirit summons there are, plus the fact that you can level them up, and you couple that with bosses leaving you with very small windows of opportunity, you've got a game that's just a step shy from outright telling the player "hey pal, you should be summoning." Of course, since this is FromSoft, the fanbase took it upon themselves to approach this game with the same mindset they approached Demon's Souls/Dark Souls with.
If FromSoft didn't want you to summon, they'd pull them out like they did with Sekiro, not add more. Elden Ring is a multiplayer game at heart, which is why it's not as great of a single player experience as their previous games.
@@RushHourWeekend I don't think I agree with that because as I mentioned, some summons just break the game. So if that is true, the game is either unfinished, unpolished, or intentionally unbalanced, and I don't think that From Software are that incompetent.
Leaving a comment just for algorithm. I was a huge Fromsoftware Fan but their new Design Philosophy and the absolutely toxic fanbase killed it for me. I thank you for speaking out. I feel 100% the same
From Software with Elden Ring pretty much has fallen in the same trap as so many other developers who tried to copy the Dark Souls & Bloodborne Formula:
These games never were about being unforgivingly hard, they managed the rarely achieved piece of art of a PERFECT balancing between challenge and fairness, in these former games, whenever you died you could IMMEDEATLY tell WHY you failed (at least when you paid attention) like "Oh, shouldn't have made that step at that time" or "damn, should have watched and better maintained my Stamina" or "Damn, I do way too few damage and need to upgrade my weapon".....since Elden Ring they went the route of all their so far rather bad copy cats and thought "It just needs to be hard to be a true souls experience" and threw everything else out of the window.
And of course, whenever you bring this up, the fanbase will just ignoringly yell "GIT GUT" at you.
Mixed reviews in steam do not belong to souls community. 95% of negative review were made by new players that just got in the Elden Ring because of how popular it is. The original souls community is what has all the positive part with all these "git gud" statement. But they always forget that not everyone is a gigachad with reaction of a machine and adaptation of a virus. Not everyone was born under Miyazaki's table to call every his creation "a 10/10 flawless masterepiece".
But I understood a long time ago that souls community is the worst single-player games community ever in history. I know a lot of bad communities in multi-player games and it's not a surprise. But in single-player this behavior is straight up dumb and looks as cringe as humanly possible.
I really hate how people judge others just by using spells, summons. should i also play blindfolded without weapons to be accepted?
Some of the difficulty is bs like attack tracking
I found elden ring and every souls game quite easy I don't understand why people think their so difficult, sure sometimes you die because you get careless but their not difficult lol. Go play dead rising 1 and complete that game without losing a single survivor, or halo 2 legendry without gliching just to name a couple of actual hard games, souls games are nothing by comparison.
yes, Get Good bro, Sorry but not sorry, Fromsoftware sets the challenge here not you.
I'm playing the dlc in NG +5 she I'm chillin so far. It's only my second FromSoft game as well. I'm genuinely unsure what all these dudes are complaining about.
@Lemminjoose elden ring is my 4th game from them. I love it
"Fromsoftware sets the challenge here not you"👈🏼
☝🏻redundant bro thought he was saying something
Creator said he was more disappointed that the difficulty was the focus. Not the fun. For all you know he beat it, and still didn't really have fun. Have you never completed a challenge like that? Something that you COULD do, DID do, but didn't have fun doing? Sounds like that's the complaint. You're basically proving his point. Didn't listen to a word he said, went straight for the meme.
@@matsimurf_5900 i was, get good
The DLC is hard, I played trough a lot of it and one thing I noticed is that Fromsoftawe is just trying to make their game as unaccessible as possible. When the first reviews of the base game arrived they were all about the accessibility of the game for new players and now that accessibility is gone, because fromsoftware makes you wait 5 whole minutes before giving you the opportunity of attacking a boss and the community criticizes your playstile.
Its because they have given us sooo many way of broking the game in the DLC. Why do you insist on tring to use a strategy that doesnt work!? Why cant you adapt? if you just want to hit your head on a wall and then bitch when it doesnt work thats on you
When we say GIT GUD its not just to mock others, we actually mean it!!
GIT GUD means use broken ash of wars, sorceries, incantations. Use summons, cheese and cheat. All that matters is to win
tell me how out of touch you are with the current bosses when you say they're not fun anymore and i'm having the time of my life with this dlc with so many of them. The dlc is literally a endgame area for your build. I understand your frustration with the community, but frankly it literally is a skill issue. You learn the boss pattern, you find the safe moveset, and you attack back. that's soul design. When from innovates and makes sekiro a combat that is actually a lot more engaging people refund it because they thought it was dark souls but wasn't. the inherent need to give the player the option to have 100% invulnerability asks for these bosses to up the ante. the better you are at making yourself safe the easier the bosses get. I'm literally seeing people forget jumping can be used to dodge abilities on this DLC and the game is straight up asking for people to use it. So many Rellana clears that got snuffed because people refuse to engage with what the intended design is. You can't change that. The dev wants you to use your tools at your disposal. Don't want to roll? then get a build that facilitates that. But don't come here saying the dlc is hard when you can explore the map, collect all the scadutrees and literally make their damage shrink to 8 hits. that's such a drastic difference from the base game's threeshot that its insane how people are misunderstanding how the dlc's levelling works, its not your level or build that matters for defense, but the scadutrees. you can be naked and still tank better than a fully armored character if you have 10 scadutrees vs 1. Is it a good design? not really, but it brings the same feeling of starting the game fresh again, which is the whole point of it for people who had the cheesiest builds in the game. Bleed still feels mandatory to guarantee clears during progressing through the game, and that's just a inherent problem with elden ring, it wants you to use these buildup mechanics as much as possible, so do it. The problem is precisely wanting to stay in the past like your video clearly shows you want to. You want mechanic only bosses like armored spider to be more prevalent, and those are historically the worst bosses in the series.
git gud, skill issue, mad cuz bad. Next video
Elden Ring as a whole is a giant knowledge check the DLC just ramps this shit up to 101/10. Know what pre-animations and audio cues leads to what attack and react accordingly. Know your timing window and then seize the advantage without over committing to the attack and getting punished. In that sense yes "skill issue" if you are still bashing your head at bosses expecting a different outcome but then again we shouldn't be expecting anything different since the entire game is just this.
You don’t think you can communicate because no one wants to. You’re being demeaning to the fanbase in the first minute of this video, why would any of us have any reason to have a discussion with you?
🤷🏻♂️Lol nope. Fanbase was never reasonable and were always demeaning though....
Any opinion that doesn't start by sucking the game off is attacked by most of the fanbase.
I love the intensity of the new DLC but the player mechanics are so bland by comparison to the bosses.
Literally nothing you can wield is particularly cool, it all feels like boring band aids, while the bosses have sick movesets.
Elden ring had me falling asleep at times the open world was so tedious and repetitive, despite new areas, it's virtually the same enemies bar a couple extra unique per area. Any game with this is a turn off.
The few reasonable fans remain so, amongst the shrieking mass of hateful fanboys.
Cope
I honestly think the game isn't for you. Yeah it's difficult but there's so many tools to help you with the game. There's a plethora of different builds you can use and summons as well. People also need to realize that you need to get the new buff mechanic to make it doable you won't get 2 tapped anymore if you get them.
Armored Core is the superior fromsoft game
I admire Armored Core 6 for sticking to the structure of the series instead of becoming Dark Souls in a mech. Here's hoping the potential 4 Answer/Verdict Day-style sequel brings back sniper rifles and tones down on the stagger; they're really close to perfecting their formula.
REAL
Thank you for highlighting the retarded blanket statement of "git gud" stiffles any sort of discussion. This isnt exclusive to Dark Souls, literally any community with a hard game will resort to that statement whenever someone complains, be the complaint legitimate or not.
I will say though that I disagree on the idea that players brought this on to themselves. Remember, players, generally speaking, know what they like but don´t know what they want. It´s a bit rich to expect players to design the game for you so the onus is on from software to harness the feedback into something that makes for an enjoyable game. Sure, the playerbase did clamour for more of these types of bosses in the early souls era but what most wanted were engaging duels, not for fromsoftware to use the same template for every fucking boss. But I still get the critique, and people have definitely been way too obsessed with the souls difficulty so they at least bear some need for introspection...
git gut or stay bad
get angreir get angrier embrace the frenzied flame MAY CHAOS TAKE THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!
Well yes. You did get filtered.
I'm not alone! Sadly the FS fanbase and the gaming industry has now decided that Miyazaki Hidetaka is bigger than god and everything he does is flawlessly perfect. ER has among the worst camera ever, the Bayle boss on the DLC broke me, plus the input lags, input queues and button registry errors kicks ialso incredibly hard during that awful boss fight. The problem is that FS and Miyazaki Hidetaka has now fully embraced the meme/streaming/meta culture. ER has a laughable in game story, but it's still the most memed game ever, because it's so easy to remember that the bosses were uttering, because they actually tells so little. It's just either "O' tree", "O' praise", "O holy" or just one liners with so few words that a 80's Action star gets ashamed. FS is ruining the industry now. Nintendo had never getting away if now Bowser/Ganon had a sudden leaping/flying tracking grab with delaying which is a insta-kill along with an abysmal camera and lock-on mechanic who constantly breaks. But FS can getting away with that nonsense completely unscratched
Skill issue
it really just seems like the modern fromsoft formula isn't your cup of tea. that's completely fine, but if that is the case, stop playing the games. i wouldn't try to play a platformer when i know i hate platformers and i know i'm not good at them, and then whine and complain that the platformer is too difficult. i'm not gonna make false claims that the developers have created impossible platforming challenges just because i can't succeed. if you're genuinely dreading fighting the boss that comes next, then this is clearly not your kind of game. also, fromsoft has always made the dlcs harder than the base game. this isn't some new concept or something that's wrong with modern fromsoft. look at dark souls 1. artorias, manus, and even sanctuary guardian were all harder than most, if not all bosses in the base game. they've been doing that for years, and you're only just now realizing that? fromsoft isn't catering to the community or new players either. they were surprised when elden ring was such a massive hit, and miyazaki has said that elden ring was close to his ideal game. they're clearly making the games they want to make, so it's disingenious to try and claim that they're catering to the dogshit fanbase. the only reason we don't have puzzle bosses anymore is 1) the regular bosses are far more engaging. and 2) the old puzzle bosses were either extremely jank or just straight up boring for subsequent playthroughs. look at bed of chaos or dragon god. bed of chaos being a poorly made rushed piece of garbage, and dragon god being a boring slog that plays out the same way in every playthrough. i'd love for them to go back and try making puzzle bosses again, but it's clear they're focusing on what they're good at now. you can't unironically say that the moonlight butterfly is a more engaging fight than anything from ds2 to now. with every subsequent game they just made the bosses more fun and enjoyable to experience.
going back to the elden ring dlc, it isn't even that hard. i'm a complete average joe and i was able to beat every boss in less than 20 deaths (except for the final boss.) i think the final boss really is the only example in the dlc of a boss that's overtuned and just hard for the sake of being hard. it's not fun, the rhythm isn't that engaging, it's an aoe spam nightmare in second phase, and beating it isn't rewarding at all.
at the end of the day, why play a game that you don't enjoy playing? if you don't like elden ring's combat or boss fights, don't play it. there are thousands of games out there that would suit your taste that you'll probably like infinitely more than elden ring. if you don't like fighting the bosses, don't beat your head against the wall to try and beat them while complaining along the way, just so you can say you beat the boss so that you can "have an opinion" on the game. just don't play it! fromsoft games have always been for their niche cult following, but as time has gone on it seems like the more and more people that discover and want to play the games, the more these people want the games to be more accessible. these games aren't made for everyone. just like how no game is made for everyone. there are games that appeal to a wide demographic like story games or sports games, but not every game should be enjoyable to everyone. just how not everyone can like everything. there will always be someone out there who you can't please, no matter what you do. so just be yourself, and don't try to please other people.
Don't play dark souls if you don't like dark souls type games.
GIT GUD SCRUB!
Dude, if someone can beat this game 7 times in a row at level 1 hitless, im pretty sure theres a clear skill issue here.
I get it, you're upset because you cant handle taking loss after loss and cant fathom the idea of taking the time to learn attack patterns. A good amount of people wont think that's fun or call others who enjoy that sadist's and thats completely fine.
You said it nest when you said "i knew the expansion wasnt gonna be for me" but instead of complaining and ranting about how something you know isnt for you, isnt, well, for you.
Souls games and bosses are like a dance, and alot of people, including myself absolutely love learning how to dance along with the boss. Instead of insulting and attacking others for enjoying the game either learn how to play them or jusy play something else.
he says "So many bosses have devolved to waiting for the boss to do one move and counter"
And im like WTF!? Dude thats the basis of every goddamn boss fight since the creation of video games!!!!
from Supermario's bowser to GOW
Do you even listen to yourself?
No you can avoid damage in various ways to keep it engaging
@@ghostface5559 you can run away, you can dodge, you can block, you can parry
You can tank
You can short teleport
What do you want? To be able to fly? Since when has a souls game become a puzzle? This is not Zelda where a boss can be killed by some shenanigans outside the battle and you are just presented with a cutscene
Perhaps, but the windows have gotten so small, and the attack strings so huge, sometimes with unaviodable small hits in between, random aoe lightning going on, weird hitbox of the enemy's centipede appendage, bad camera angle, weapon doesn't even reach because the lock on of the boss is above the ground for some reason, or any number of things. It ain't fun anymore. Sekiro had a great basic system, but it died so we could have more souls roll-slop. They need to change it up, and for god's sake, no more open world. It is tedious and boring and just tempting you to read guides.
Good boss (usually espoused in classic games and even older Fromsoft titles): use the mechanics and weaknesses of the boss, alongside your skill and strategy to create an opening and take it
Modern boss: wait for the boss to finish flailing around, possibly parry or roll until he stands there for a few seconds and you can actually damage him
@@I-ONLY-BUILD-MECHS-AND-DUSTERS most of your points are valid and to that I’ll say doesn’t that just mean you have to play more carefully ?
Other than the camera angle shtick which has always been a problem with big bosses and highly mobile ones. And there isn’t much you can do for that other than learning to play without locking.
But again I’ll say why is it that you call this game bad for doing that? There are only so many ways designers make game bosses hard. You get bullet sponges, you get bullshit mechanics requiring puzzles to counter and you get bosses who fight hard and aggressively (like GOW and Fromsoft)
So when you take for example to dancing lion, his blood bar is decent, he is meant to dance all over the screen. He hits hard but is slower than you so you can run circles around him for days but when close to him you need to be careful.
He is hard yes, but is he broken? No! Just look at how he fights and adapt. What you call hard now is the same people called demon souls years ago. Nowadays they demon souls is called the easiest of the bunch cuz everyone and their mothers knows to turtle behind a shield. Gamers have gotten better. Games need to improve to push them
But strangely enough maybe you still insist on playing the game like Sekiro
I’m not here talking like a pro. I’ve died to the dlc, heck I died to the final boss of the main game so many times I had to restart the game twice and it still took me 2 years before I cheesed him with a magic build. But do I think the boss was bad (other than having to run behind the guy forever), No. cuz I knew deep within that it was all on me
Finally I’ll say again, Fromsoft has their style. They could have given us DS7 or Bloodborne 10 or Sekiro remaster remix but they instead seek to try various paths and then combine all their good ideas. I like that they don’t stop to Cather to the needs of people of complain cuz the game hurt their feelings otherwise we will be having another Ubisoft in our hands
dude you are allowed to bitch about difficulty and FS not cathering to your needs
But the moment you start insulting Boss designs, calling them bad and uninteresting just because you are unable to see when to attack them I call Foul.
If being unable to see when to attack makes them bad and uninteresting to him, then what’s the problem? It’s like you forgot that differing opinions exist.
@@Galladiator42 hitler had his opinion
Why the fuck did people bitch about that?
Racist have their opinions, why do people blame them?
There is having an opinion and there is coming online to preach them like they are facts
@tatienouorest3358 your examples are so ironic because they're exactly the types to come on to the internet and preach their opinions as facts.
And furthermore, you're preaching your opinions all over the place in this comment section. So why should we listen to you, if you're doing the exact same thing??
@@abyssalrose6948 thé argument given by every Racist ever. I’m pretty sure I haven’t given even a single point of my opinion anywhere. All I gave were denials of his points
Now if you can’t see the difference that’s your problem
I don’t need to come online and preach my opinion as facts
Saying someone is "bitching" about their own takes on the gaming industry is your opinion. Saying that there's ways to "break the game" all in the name of victory is an opinion. Yes you've also listed in game mechanics, but if a game requires you to "cheat or cheese" in order to beat it, then it's not a very good game.
The combat system is flawed. That's OP's argument. The game itself isn't the problem, it's the developers behind it, but you want to be blinded by the Elden Nostalgia Goggles so bad it's almost embarrassing. The fact that you can't distinguish OP's criticism of a combat system that's been stuck in the same difficult = good game is your problem.
You're literally proving OPs point. Where you ER fanboys don't want to have meaningful conversations, or take valid criticism, because all you have in response is akin to a school yard version of neeneer neener.
I have a friend who played Sekiro and never bothered to learn how to Parry
people said the game was hard blablabla!
I introduced him to the souls games, his first was bloodborne. He played Sekiro and his strategy was to run around bosses and attack when he could. his fights were longer for sure but on average he defeated his bosses with less tries as compared to me. So dont go blaming the game just cuz you suck or you dont want to find the style that works for you. Its on you if you Suck! Elden ring gives you soooo many ways to broke the game, the weapon arts are busted in the dlc and the weapons themselves are almost memes
The vicious cycle
Mad cuz bad, git gud
hmmmmmmm...
mad cuz bad
GET GOOD SCRUBS
Filtered
what a soy take yikes
Ah yes, thank you beastking2376, very compelling point
skill issue
if you dont find the game fun dont play it dont buy games before you know how it will play
He's reviewing it moron. How would we form an opinion if nobody reviewed bad games.
OK so basically what you are saying is that it's ur nap time and u want your bottle
The so called hard core gamers like it so they can brag about how elite they are. 😂
I don't buy any game that doesn't have difficulty settings. These guys literally leave money on the table from people like me.
I don't think they need your money realistically
Just play Elden ring with summons and stuff the game has things in it to make it easier it's on you if you complain about the difficulty if you set yourself a summonless, magicless run. You imposed those rules, the game didn't.
It's not too difficult, it's just not made for you. We don't want you coming into our game series (a game series you don't even like) and trying to get the devs to change it to fit you. It's not for you. Some of us want more challenge. Also if you haven't played the DLC how do you know the bosses are doing the things you say? You sound like Quantum.
If you criticize a game you’ve played: “If you don’t like it, don’t play it.”
If you criticize a game you haven’t played: “If you haven’t played it, how do you know?”
You can’t win. Just don’t ever criticize anything I guess.
Damn, git gud scrub
From games are about learning the systems. As a From veteran who doesn't like hard games, I found a lot of Elden Ring to be significantly easier than other games in the series. The thing with Elden Ring though, they do some stuff with the bosses like you mention where they string BS moves, but the point is to be more strategic. You've got so many weapons, tool, ashes of war, spirit ashes, spells, talismans etc. So where you could just rush the old games with any build, you now need to think about your opponents strengths and weaknesses.
A lot of the boss fights in the game seem to imply you should be summoning. In fact, community be damned, I think that's always been the case.
I'd highly recommend the Elden Ring let's play by RKG to see this in action (though it's a beefy series that's not anywhere near the end).
But yeah, don't listen to idiots who have nothing to contribute to discussion, because the camaraderie is always what From games have been about. Miyazaki I'm sure wouldn't approve of such fans.
Soulslike games are for niche audiences, not for global audiences. The base game oversold due the pandemic. I played the base game and it was fine but I would never get jebaited into buying DLC. You all should have known better -- DLC always gets negative reviews in any game.