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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- #howto #theheatingpro.com #idealogic
Roger @theheatingpro Full demo of ideal logic combi boiler, how to top up pressure etc. Please ask any questions I will happily help Regards Roger. Please Subscribe to see all my other videos and get notified of new ones
Thanks so much - living with a disabled very cold husband I thought I’d touched the wrong tap and was in an absolute panic especially as this is a sunday - I can’t thank you rnough
@Abhj0106 I am so happy that this helped out.Thank you and hope your husband is now comfortable
Thank you so much for helping me this morning. Pressure flat as a fart this morning. System was checked in January and I thought they would do that. Obviously not! You, me and RUclips to the rescue! Thanks very much again x
I have an old model, still your video is helpful to change some settings. Thank you for your video. 🙏🙏
I appreciate the video. Moved in a place with one of these and no idea how to get it working
Thanks for your simple instructions and diagram.very useful.
Thanks. Excellent presentation, well done.
Rashad Ismail Thanks Rashad kind of you to say. Please Subscribe for further videos
Awesome video thanks very much!
Glad you liked it!
You are a lifesaver
Praise indeed!! Glad it helped you out
Regards
Roger
@theheatingpro
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Just the video I was looking for right to the point.
If possible on further videos can you get abit more technical on the other dials please.
I've got logic combi c30 there's a spanner L2 sign coming up my heating and hot water has gone off I have done everything topped it up reset it nothing seems to be working what do I do please help
Hi Mumtaz, Few things that could be causing this but looking at the most obvious first. Dies your condesne pipe run to the outside of the building? May be frozen if thats the case, Boil a kettle and run it over the pipe outside to thaw it out. Let me know how you get on, if the outside temp has changed you may find that it may work when you reset it wothout resorting to the kettle. Let me know how you get on as there are other things that could be causing the L2 fault
Regards
Roger
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How do you know the temperature of hot water if it doesn't show you on the display?
Super informative video. Wonder could you advise on something ?. So the remote control is broken currently - I understand the above settings etc , and I have running hot water working away , but mo heat (I used turn heat on using the remote) - How do I actually do it manually ? I would have thought just turning the Radiator button would do it but nothing happens :/
Hi , I have this boiler, hot water working along with upstairs radiator butnoheating downstairs? Have bled radiators and nothing from boiler,just stays on 0. It wont fire up? Thank you
Hi jemma, If the boiler is working on the hot water and one of your heating zones the issue doesnt lie with the boiler. It will be either the stat or zone valve. Turn the stat up so it is demanding heat and check to see if it energises the zone valve. The lever on the side of the zone valve goes slack when its energised. If it remains with a spring recoil resistance when you have a call from the stat then it is likely a stat issue. If the lever is slack then it is likely a zone valve head issue. You will likely have to get someone in to change either unless you are electrically minded but at least you should be able to work out which is at fault
Hope this helps
Any questions let me know
Regards
Roger
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@@theheatingpro thank you for swift reply👍 ok, umm.....one of the zone valves( I believe upstairs working zone) feels quite warm and energised , one is cold ( I believe downstairs non working one) they both have little lever on the top which do not differentiate in slackness? The stat ( downstairs) is on , and shows flame when put on but no response from boiler. Do you have a very rough price of what I could be looking at, I have rang a few companies and want around £100 to investigate. Thank you
Did everything and still no heating in radiators and shows 0 and red light on control on wall .. any tips ?
HI Ingrid, Which control do you have on the wall and do you know if your heating is single or two zone?
Regards
Roger
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My boiler keeps going on and off. DHW preheat. Code P on boiler. Never done it til after engineer had been out to fix a fault. Can this be turned off as going on and off every few minutes?
Hi Jackie,
Yes you can turn off the preheat. It is a facility to have a small storage of hot water to give you instant hot water while the boiler kicks in and gets up to temp when you demand hot water. It may be useful if your bathroom is a distance away from the boiler to save running a lot of water off waiting for the water to get hot, but in most instances it is not required. It will constantly fire the boiler at random times to keep that small amount of water hot for when you first demand it. SImply turn the preheat off, it wont affect any other settings of your boiler and guess that you had never used it up to this point.
Regards
Roger
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Hi, thanks for a simple to follow video, we’ve just moved into a house with one like this ours is a i130 we have all set the same as yours but we have an extra control which gives the option of manual or automatic and we are unsure which to have it on? We only need the heating on between 6am and 11pm we have a altech thermostat, it seems to be costing a lot more than our old house to to yet it’s a smaller house.
Hi Tina, Depends on how you want to use it Auto will follow your programmed settings, Manual will be On until you turn it off and off until you turn it on. Hope this helps and further questions please ask
Regards
Roger
@theheatingpro.com
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@@theheatingpro Thank you yes it does help us
Are there any videos how to set heating to switch heating on and of at set times please
It is a logic max C24 I want to set it to come on a couple hrs in the morning and a few hours in the evening
@@christinelloyd6715 Hi Christine what control/stat do you have? I can try and help you from there
Regards
Roger
@theheatingpro
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Great video. I have the same boiler. I noticed on the video, even if the setting is on both hot water/heater, the system shows O. Whereas mine shows C and heating remains on despite switching it off from E position.
Hi Melodic, the C symbol at the boiler means you have a Call from your roomstat. The boiler shows the C on heating and a D for demand from your hot water (hot tap open). If your roomstat is not calling for heat then it maybe that the red link has been left in the boiler which it comes with from the factory. This should be removed by the installer should an external control such as the roomstat be wired to the boiler. Check your roomstat isn’t calling or if you have a two zone system that one of your zone valves is not locked in manual. Hope this helps, please ask any more questions if you are unsure and I’m sure we can get to the bottom of it
Regards
Roger
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@@theheatingpro Thank you so much for this and for your swift reply! Really appreciate your help with this:)
Kind regards
@@SayemTabla No worries, let me know how you get on and if you need further help 👍👍
Hi I have a question. I got a similar boiler, with a setting to take preheat off for hot water so done that.
Now, the E setting. If I set my temperature from the thermostat, is it more economical to keep the bar to E on the boiler or does it help if I turn it down? Many thanks
Hi Michelle,
The manufacturer has set up the E for the most economical setting to run your heating so yes I would set it there. Sometimes running the temperature too low can delay your heat up time in the home In terms of your heating have a play with the temp, the lower you set it and are comfortable the cheaper it is. If you have a roomstat that has 0,5 degree increments try dropping it from where you standardly have it by half a degree a night until you feel the temperature is good but as low as it can be where you are happy. The big saver on a combi boiler year round is your hot water setting, glad to hear that you took off the pre heat as it will turn on ranodmly throughout the day and night to keep a pre heat of water ready for when you draw hot water from a tap. In most instances this is not necessary and only an additional cost. Again have a play with your hot water setting, I find most people have it set too hot and are unable to put their hands under the water when it reaches its max, thus having to add cold water to mix the water back down to an acceptable temp. Set it to where it is hot enough for your needs and no higher. The KW rating on all combi boilers is set for the hot water side as it requires a lot of gas quickly to turn the cold water to hot water. Higher KW output = higher gas use. Limit the temp and you will lower the KW/hr used.
Few tips on your heating system would be make sure all rads have been bled of air, use and set your TRV's per room and if you have two stats ie 2 zone heating dont just leave them on factory settings. Adjust the upstairs stat to come on early morning and later evening when you are typically using the rooms at a lower temp than main living rooms. 18 degrees is the standard temp for a bedroom. Set up your downstairs stat for when you will typically be downstairs and try and limit it back as far as you can and dont just leave set on the factory settings which are usually 20 or 21 degrees.
I usually dont use the schedule feature until we hit a lot colder weather and turn on and off manually. Where we are moving into the colder months you will find some days quite a pleasant temp and no need for heating and others where you may feel the need to bring it on for an hour or two, until we get to the point where it is needed every day, then switch to the schedule
Hope this helps a little and please let me know if oyu have any other questions
Regards
Roger
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@@theheatingpro Wow I didn't expect such a complete answer, thank you so much for taking the time to explain this througly! Really helpful, I appreciate it.
How do I set up the time I want the heater on and off?
Set it up on your roomstat
I have this exact boiler, so this video is great, however, I just cannot get one of the valves to turn, would you know why this may be?
Thanks
Hi Adele, which valve is it that you can't turn?
Regards
Roger
@theheatingpro.com
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Thankkk youuuu!!!
You are welcome. Ask any questions and I will gladly help
Regards
Roger
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Mine has recently started saying P any ideas
Hi Simon,
Not aware of a P in the fault codes. What is the model of your boiler. Will be an ID badge on top left of your boiler at side of the flue or on bottom left hand edge under boiler. May be able to help if I knoow exactly which model
Regards
Roger
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My logic combi 24 works but about every 24 hours I have to reset it every day. What can I do so I don't have to reset it every single day ?
Hi TJ,
Do you get a fault code as this my help with the advice
Regards
Roger
@theheatingpro.com
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Can I ask my heating comes on clicks and the water board in like two 3 o’clock in the morning
What roomstat do you have on your heating system may be a place to look for the issue?
Regards
Roger
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I have the old boiler with the 7 day digital programmer do you have a video for setting it up please x
Hi. My pressure is nearly 3 how can i lower it pls. Thanks
Majid Mammadov best to either empty some from a drain off valve on your downstairs radiator or via the radiator vent although that can more tricky depending on the type of vent. Make sure the filling loop is turned off and not making the pressure so high 👍 Regards Roger
Ive got the es35 boiler, and pressure is just under 1. Ive tried to do add more pressure but nothing happens when I turn the taps to do so.
Mark Holloway Hi Mark, sometimes depends on the pressure coming into your house. Some houses max out at the 1 bar so means you can’t get it up further. As long as it is over 0.4 and around the 1.0 it will work just as intended.
Hope this helps
Regards Roger
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Hi I have a ideal boiler think its the c25 it is making a vibration noise intermittently its quite load can you give me some advice pleases
Hi Christine, How old is the boiler? Is it due a service? The injector needs cleaning on the service as fine debris in it can cause vibration/noise generally on min rate fire. The gas valve may also need looking at as it may be defective. How old is the boiler and is it still in warranty?
Regards
Roger
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@@theheatingpro no its about 10 years old had new parts twice one last october but started again thinking of a replacement
Thanks for the video, 👍🏻🌹how can I change the room state or timer off ? Help please
Hi Yara,
If you have the boiler shown here then just set the right hand dial to hot tap symbol and regardless of what the timer/stat does the heating wont come on
Regards
Roger
@theheatingpro
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Where does the receiver for the wireless thermostat live on this?
Can you set the heating to come on in the morning for an hour on a timer ?
Hi my ideal boiler has a tap in the middle of the small copper pipe between the two taps you showed, what is that for and does the boiler need to be on to increase the pressure as nothing is happening, and last the tap where the pressure gauge is what is that for.
William Newlands Hi William, ideal have changed the taps over the years on the boilers so there are a number of slight variations. The filling loop is always on the right however, start with the second pipe from the right this is the cold water pipe and where you will get the water from to pressurise the boiler/system. It will have a tap on it which is probably pointing directly up this needs to turn towards you then follow the small link pipe to the pipe on the right hand side of the boiler any tap will need turning so it is in line with the pipe and this should then start putting mains water into the boiler, you will hear it. It is best to top up the pressure when the system is cold as it gives you a true pressure when cold, top up to 1 bar. Then turn the cold water tap back to pointing up and the smaller tap back to its original position across the small pipe. Don’t turn any other tap ie the ones on the two outside pipes or the yellow one. If you do it isolates the flow or return to the heating, the boiler will fire but quickly overheat as it can’t circulate around the radiators, the yellow one is the gas and the boiler won’t fire at all. All should be pointing up.
Hope this help
Regards
Roger
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@@theheatingpro many thanks for the advice managed to increase the pressure, it was the tap on the right. Can I ask you another question I had rain water coming in from the flue pipe outside, now I read many reasons for this, wrong angled flue pipe, I had a look and it does have a very small point upwards, is the anything on the market that you can fit to have the angle downwards, the weather was extreme and the rain was being blown in by the wind had to switch the boiler off and cover the outside flue to stop the rain.
William Newlands Hi William, unfortunately not there is nothing to stop this. Some other manufacturers flues have been redesigned to try and prevent this happening. The flue is to be fitted horizontally or with a slight fall back to the boiler depending on manufacturers instructions at the time of install. Weather where the rain is being driven has often caused us issues with this same problem but other than changing the wall the flue exits from ( ie rear flue being side flued) to a more sheltered wall there is little you can do. Any means of deflecting the water impedes the clearances needed for the combustion gases to be dispersed and air to be drawn in.
Hope this helps explain and sorry I can’t offer up a solution to resolve this for you, I wish I could
Regards
Roger
@@theheatingpro many thanks for the reply, didn't think anything could be done will just have to persevere with it, it has happened a couple of times and just worried about the water dripping into the boiler with the electrics. Thanks again.
William Newlands You may be able to do something shortly but it depends on your boiler. Ideal have just brought out a new flue which would do away with this issue (it has been a common one with a number of manufacturers boilers) which has the air intake configured differently. You can check your GC number on your boiler with ideal and ask if it would suit the new style flue. Would think it would cost you between £100-£140 to change the flue
Hope this helps
Regards
Roger
Still no heating abd my times is flashing off. Any ideas?
Hi Lisa want controls do you have
All my signal lights are flashing. How do I fix this?
How do I change the batteries pls?
On what Jackie
@@theheatingpro there is a small box on the wall which has the on/off/timer switch inside, both ends of this box come off to reveal this switch but the light is flashing and I says replace battery on the screen
Hi ,where is the pressure relief valve located on an ideal logic 30. Please
peter wild hi Peter, pressure relief valve is located inside the boiler behind the pump. It has a red top on it.
Regards
Roger
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Hi roger, i`m informed the pressure relief valve on my boiler needs changing, is this a job I could do , bearing in mind I have no real knowledge of boilers ?
peter wild Hi Peter, whilst for an engineer it would be a straightforward swap and take little time there are always possible complications which would mean I wouldn’t advise doing it yourself if you have little experience. You would need to isolate your boiler and drain then remove the retaining clip and undo compression joint below to enable you to remove it. Then fit new prv and replace clip, remake compression joint, then open isolation to boiler and refill to 1.5 bar.
Hope this helps
Regards
Roger
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Hello, I have the Ideal Logic Combi ESP1 35 and the pressure bar is currently showing 3.5. I've tried bleeding the radiators the pressure is not going down. Is there anything else I can do or do I need someone to come look at it? Thanks
Tom Ogden Hi Tom, check that the taps are not in the open position below the boiler on the filling loop. Would expect your boiler to be discharging when it gets to that pressure. If taps are slightly open it will pressurise the system as you are trying to vent it so not seeing the pressure coming down.
Come back to me for further questions after you have checked that, are a number of things you could try before calling someone in
Regards
Roger
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@@theheatingpro Hi Roger, thank you for the quick reply. All the taps are closed properly. I currently have the boiler switched off and it's showing 3.2 bar. There's no air coming out of any radiators just water.
Tom Ogden Hi Tom to get the pressure down you would need to take roughly 3 coffee mugs worth of water out of the system. If the vents on your radiators allow you to direct the water when venting is slower to do but easier than some drain offs on the system. If after getting three mugs out you pressure hasn’t budged we need to be looking at something else. Make sure your heating is off when you are doing it so as not to scald yourself and to get a better idea of the cold pressure
@@theheatingpro Hi Roger, thank you for all the help. I bled the downstairs radiators and have go it down to 1 bar. I've turned the heating on now and sitting just above 1 bar.
Tom Ogden Glad you got it sorted Tom. Pressure naturally goes up slightly when your heating is on, so sounds like you are all ok.
Regards
Roger
Good video. We have a f2 come on our logic combi boiler how can this get fixed.
Jamie Groom, F2 is due to flame loss, most common causes are a blocked/frozen condense pipe. Gas tap has been turned off by mistake under boiler yellow tap in the middle or at the gas meter. If these are ok it would require an engineer to test gas pressure, gas valve, wiring harness etc. I have pdf download instructions on my website for this boiler page 52 section 26 relates to f2
Hope you get it sorted
Regards
Roger
www.cparkinson.com
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Or, if the the boiler is the only gas appliance in the house (no fires, electric oven) and you have a credit card type gas meter, check that you don't need to top up credit. The condensate traps if not cleaned out regularly, can also lead to F2. Recommend having it serviced annually. This will also credit the additional years of the breakdown warrantee.
Great video! I have a Logic 30 just like the one in your video, fully serviced and pretty much everything replaced under service contract, and this is controlled by a Honeywell Evohome. .
It has always taken an absolute age to heat the house, a double glazed 3 bed 1930s semi, from cold. As an example, this evening it took circa 2 hours or so to go from 14.5c to 18c with the boiler set to eco and an ambient temp of 9c, which seems awfully long when I read of similar systems taking 30 min to do the same.
Any suggestions as to what to investigate or is likely down to elderly radiators? The Evohome is setup as a thermostat and is located in the hall, which has a 1.8m long single radiator without TRV. Any advice much appreciated.
Hi Stef,
A number of factors to look through. Firstly has the performance always been the same or are you noticing a lowering in performance. Are your insulation levels good? Do a touch test with the outside of you hand on all radiators. Typically after 15 mins I would expect that you would need to pull your hand off the radiator in a count of 3 seconds for a radiator which is heating as I would expect it capable of. Any slower than 8 seconds or a radiator whcih you can leave your hand on suggests either an underperforming pump or balancing issues.
Check that all parts of each radiator are getting hot after 20 minutes or so. They will heat from the top first but should get fully hot even at the bottom mid point of the radiator. It may suggest a sludge build up in the radiators if the lower section never gets hot. Take a look at these come back to me and hopefully I can add some more suggestions to get the best out of your system.
Regards
Roger
@theheatingpro
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@@theheatingpro Roger, thank you very much for the very detailed reply, which is really appreciated. I shall conduct the checks you suggest and get back to you.
@@dontcare32123 Hi Stef, Let me know how you get on and I will ask a few more questions to hopefully get you sorted.
Regards
Roger
@@theheatingproSorry for the very late reply in getting back to you. I changed a large single panel radiator with fins to a double panel with fins and the room is now up to setpoint in around 30 to 40 minutes, which is a massive difference. I have also started working through the other radiators by making similar changes plus the boiler is now running Opentherm, which seems to keep the room temperature nice and steady. Still playing with boiler flow temperatures on the Ideal, which is fortunately still adjustable despite the Opentherm connection.
Hi Roger, thanks for the quick video explanation.
Generallly looking for what is the most efficient way to keep the house hot during the scottish winters.
First time owning a property so a bit nervous about pipes freezing and such. Am i more concerned about the tap heat or both radiator and tap?
Any advice on sound proofing the cupboard as well?
Hi Jacobite Productions,
Set for both tap & heating this time of year as tap only wont allow the heating to come on even if the roomstat calls for the boiler.
What roomstat do you have? I will be able to help you more with your question in that department rather than the boiler end. The boiler is just the heat generator, set to E (plus tap & heating) and you can forget about it in terms of running the heating which is at the stat end.
Regards
Roger
@theheatingpro
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My heating stays on 0 but getting hot water no heating??
Hi James, suggests that the boiler isn't getting a call from the stat. If you have two zone heating this could be an issue with the zone valve too. If it is single zone ie only one stat then check the stat is sitting correctly on the backplate. Further than that you will need an engineer to take a look
Regards
Roger
@theheatingpro.com
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Hi 😊every day the pressure in the furnace falls and I have to pump it twice a day! which is the reason
Hi Dominika, Can be a number of reasons. Things to check for yourself would be - Any leaks showing anywhere on your heating system? Any signs of water coming from the Pressure relief valve ( small finger size copper pipe outside near boiler (furnace) location? Do not block this at all as it is a safety device.
You would need a competent engineer from that point as could be an expansion vessel issue, cracked heat exchanger passing pressure relief valve or other leak to the system somewhere.
Good luck, hope you get it sorted soon
Regards,
Roger
www.cparkinson.com
How could i fix L1 error code…?🥲🥲🥲
Hi Claudiu,
F1
Low pressure warning. You will need to repressurise your boiler with the Filling loop taps underneath. Usually two blue taps turn the left one towards you and then turn the right hand one towards you and watch the pressure rise on the dial. you want it to be around 1 bar. Turn the right tap back to its original position and then the same with the left so its pointing up towards the boiler. Boiler generally resets itself from this point but you may need to reset.
Hope this helps
Regards
Roger
@theheatingpro
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How can I fix the C code with blue light on?
Sarfraz Fazil Hi Sarftaz not sure what you mean Fix it? The C is showing that you are calling for heating. The blue light that the boiler has fired and is heating
@@theheatingpro Hi. Thanks for your reply. I think it was the thermostat battery low or temperature that was the issue. Thanks again!!!
How do you turn the water temperature UP?
Danny Jarvis Hi Danny, few variables on that. If dial on front of boiler is at max for water and you still have issue. What is your flow rate and water pressure like? If it is too high the water is travelling to fast through the boiler to heat properly. Either turn the incoming stop tap down a little or don’t open tap fully when using. Other may be age and condition depending you may have a blockage in your plate exchanger on boiler which would require stripping out of boiler and flushing
Hope this helps
Regards
Roger
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Hi how do i set automatic heating times?
Omama Ashraf Hi Omama, what roomstat do you have
I have a gloworm flexicom boiler pressure dropping how do I adjust it
Richard Graham Hi Richard depends which model. They had round blue taps underneath the boiler, not always the easiest to top up as the blue round plastic was just an extender to the actual taps and can slip. They are plastic taps and sometimes very difficult to turn on. I found that I had to take blue tops off and use plumbers pump pliers to be able to move the actual taps below. If you can post a picture of the underside of your boiler I can put arrows on the picture to where you should be looking 👍🏻
are this boilers any good ??
Martin Teerly Hi Martin, as part of our contracts we currently fit hundreds of these boilers per year and have for a number of years. As a comparison to other boilers we have fitted over the years I would say these are among the best we have ever fitted, we get very few come backs with minimal faults. Hope this helps Regards Roger
how can i fix the f3 error
Hi
The F3 fault is not a straight forward one I'm afraid
F3: Fault with fan
This fault is caused by a loose or damaged fan. This issue could be related to deeper problems such as loose or damaged connections, water damage from a boiler leak, a fault with the air pressure switch or a problem with the printed circuit board. I would suggest that a breakdown engineer would be the best person to look at it for you. The fact that it could be a number of parts I would also look at the manufacturer option to fix it. idealheating.com/support/out-of-warranty-protection
A one off fee of £299.00 to fix it with 6 months cover from point of repair.
Hope this helps
Regards
Roger
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It’s says 0 tho and radiators not on?
Gungus,
Usually means your stats are not calling for heat. 0 status means no call on boiler to do anything
Regards
Roger
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How do I disconnect the weather compensation unit?
Puddleglum two wires to right hand side need to come out. Means having to take off the cover though which would means you would. Red to be gas Safe. Hope that helps Roger
Excellent video... by the way what is the ideal pressure?
Hi Tosin,
1 bar, the pressure increases when in use and dont want it to get to near 3 bar or it will discharge. I also find when the pressure vessel is needing recharging this increase in pressure is higher. Need to keep the pressure vessel charged with your annual boiler service
Regards
Roger
@theheatingrpo
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Our boiler show f1 once in a day. Showed to engineer also but he could not able to fixed it.
vandana1782 hi vandana, F1 fault is low water pressure. Look for the obvious like a leak or discharge from the pressure relief valve ( small copper pipe going to outside). Following that it could be loose connection on the pressure sensor or a faulty pressure sensor. Sometimes the water quality in the system can affect the sensor by blocking it slightly so you end up over pressurising without realising ie the gauge shows 1.5 but in reality you have 2.5, then when heating goes on it expands and you discharge at 3bar. Does the pressure gauge drop to zero constantly? If so try topping up to a lower pressure say 1 bar and see how it goes.
Hope this helps a little
Regards
Roger
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Thanks for ur valuable help...i will try this
How do you set the frost mode?
Hi Sam,
Would be your roomstat to be able to do this. What stat do you have?
Thanks ....sorted..had to set the dial to the radiator/water icon
Hi my ideal esprit eco 24 30 water pressure is low how do I refill please thanks Maggie
Maggie Forrest Hi Maggie, the Esprit doesn’t have a built in filling loop like the video shown. You would need to look for the filling loop which is a braided metal cord between two taps (usually) located generally very near the boiler. I will try to put up a picture to show you what you are looking for
Regards
Roger
Maggie Forrest i1.wp.com/www.fixmyplumbing.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/img_56531.jpg
Maggie Forrest Hi Maggie hopefully the link will show you what you need to be looking for
Maggie Forrest Hi Maggie, if not google “filling loop” you will need to turn the tap (or two taps) and watch the pressure gauge on the boiler go up to between 1 and 1.5 bar. This done then you should have boiler up and working again. Good luck, please subscribe to have me on hand if needed and let me know if you still need assistance
Regards
Roger
www.cparkinson.com
CParkinsonBuryLtd Thanks Rodger