"I know you can get something that looks like a bush, I've got a hat somewhere" You have no idea how much I laughed at that, not at you, with you, don't ever change. That was gold. Let me repeat not laughing at you, just love your way of presenting. To answer the query if you are in a hide and poke a white lens out some wildlife might get spooked and maybe a lens cover can help but if others are in the hide forget it. Wandering around dressed like a bush I am not convinced but in a portable bush looking hide dressed in camouflage with the lens in camo cover it can help. I'd recommend this when you know for sure what is in the area and you arrive before sunrise. But for the most part being still and quiet will serve you well once arrived in a location.
I did mean it as a joke, just like wearing a green t-shirt might help lol. Glad you found it funny! It does seem like lack of movement is the key rather than being a bush.
The main thing is to use the proper focal length for the subject. Don’t use a 400 when an 800 is still too short and expect good results. The birds can see you whether you are wearing camo or not. What works is to know your bird and their habits. Go to where the bird is going before they get there and be still. Your results should improve. Birds see movement and react, that is what keeps them alive.
You can see why wildlife pros love their 600/f4s! Having an extra two stops to play with would make a big difference to the noise. I need 1/3200 to photograph my greyhounds and birds in flight. Using bursts at slower speeds and getting a couple of keepers for waders and static birds is something we couldn't do with DSLRs so it takes a bit of getting used to!
Hey Russ. Great vid. I’m going to repeat what someone else has said. It’s not ISO that creates noise in an image, it’s the available light hitting the sensor. Every situation from light, subject and how clean the image is is different. I’ve always said there is NO magic number, we just have to practice practice and when you think your getting somewhere, practice some more. This may sound daft but, I always once or maybe twice a months make the effort to visit my local small duck pond, just to practice BIF, stationary subjects and also slow moving subject for two reasons: #1 keeping muscle memory polished in my hands and body. #2 No matter the weather, I keep settings fresh in my mind with the different lighting conditions I find myself in. So all I’m trying to say is, settings change all the time, from subject to subject, from weather/lighting conditions from one day to the next, we then start learning all these variables over time which then allows us to narrow down the time and guess work to find a setting that only may work, because we’ll be closer to a better setting already in our heads. Anyway, keep up the great work and hope what I’ve wrote makes at least a little sense. All the best, Tom Oh and P.S. Get that frame rate up to at least 15FPS on that bad boy or even 20FPS 😊
Yes every scene is different as is every bird speed and size. No golden rule I guess. But sure for BIF I’ll use 20fps. Really if I’m closer somehow none of it will be an issue. Thanks
If you are photographing a wedding (think that is your common reference) you would use a 24-70mm from 60 meters away from the bride and groom and expect good detail in the brides dress. Likewise, to not misunderstand the capabilities of long lenses don't use a 400mm or 560mm with the subject taking up 4% of the frame, this will almost never be a compelling image or an image of high detail. ISO is one factor in noise & pixellation but so is cropping 300%. My own opinion is 400mm to 600mm is optimum (for a variety of reasons and if anyone wants to get narky then 1. it is my opinion and 2. happy to share & justify my opinion if someone is really interested) in order to fill the frame (or make subject substantial in the frame) and give the option to include environment to tell a story BUT provided you get close enough. In some situations an 800mm plus 1.4 take may be the right luxury option but don't feel limited by the focal range of your kit just get closer to do it justice. Look through the your wedding shots and particualry those that include detail of say the dress and compare focal length to subject distance and apply this thinking to wildlife. Sometimes we forgo the detail for the action/event in front of us but often we want to marvel at some detail too which needs proximity.
You have good points there, my mission really should be to get a bit closer which could be fun really. Like you say with weddings I get as close as possible with my 50mm then crop in. Or Nikon could release a 70MP camera?
@@russandloz Even if they released a 200mp camera you will be dealing with the most problematic factors of long teles 1. Air quality, pollutant particles, haze etc the more of it (distance) the degradation 2. Vibration is magnified the longer the lens as is haze etc, everything negative is magnified with long lens and all the less forgiving the more pixels your sensor has.
That's my problem too, i can't get close enough to the birds, or if im there and i hear it, i can't find it in the woods XD. Do you know some forums or videos about this? I am not species specific, it doesn't matter, just be a wild bird and not a human friendly pigeon in the city. (My gear: Nikon d7200+Sigma 150-600 contemporary, before that lens, i used a nikon 55-300mm, but the autofocus is too slow, too much hunting and not sharp at the long end and 2 days ago i upgraded to the sigma)
@@russandloz and @itachione Getting close has no one simple answer but it can be done. An obvious one is RSPB sites that have hides and known areas of particular birds. I go to one and see Marsh harriers everytime and they fly often within a distance to get great shots. They always have bird feeders with a variety of interesting birds and often these are just feet away. These places are a great option to visit often and hone skills from a closer distance and observe behaviours. The other options are knowing your areas, most wildlife is habitual and territory oriented so will be visible daily if you know where to look. In my local area I know exactly where to go to see Hen Harries, Marsh Harriers, Herons, Oyster Catchers, Curlews, Lapwings, Sand Pipers, kestrels, nut hatches, Hares, Deer, stoats and more. Just arrive calmly and quietly and get yourself sat in a good spot and wait for them to appear and do not make jerky noisey movements. Speak to people in specific areas to learn what is there. Barn Owls are often seen by locals to them on a daily basis in exactly the same spot hunting and perching. Get into the countryside and speak to people. Another option is paid hides where the wildlife is provided with feeding stations be it cuckoo’s, sparrow hawks, pine martins, badgers, kingfishers, water rails etc. also go to shorelines where you will find waders. Just do some research, learn your target animals or birds behaviours & activities and keep going to where they are and be quiet and still. Be observant, prepare for lots of time dedicated to patiently waiting and keep returning. It feels impossible but once you get used to it and start to get some results it feel a little easier and is very rewarding.
It is about the amount of light that falls on the sensor. low light causes noise. People think that ISO causes noise, but that is not the case. Every situation is different, so there is no fixed shutter speed. With stationary or slow-moving objects, it is best to keep increasing your shutter speed until you get to the point where you get movement in your subject.
Nice pictures at lower iso. I see a Nikkor Z 800mm f/6.3 VR S is in your future. Maybe Nikon will let you try out one and compare the resolve power of double 400 in the lens.
I got some shots of a Hobby at RSPB Ham Wall yesterday, Z8, 180-600 1/1600 panned, f6.3 ISO80 Raw. detail came out pretty good. I saw a guy with something like a Canon 800mm on a monopod, I don't know how they can lock on a bird in flight!
@@russandloz On the computer screen I measured 250mm wide and cropped to 90mm and the Hobby was 50mm wide. I've just taken a Great Tit on the nut feed and the ISO was 12800 and after using Lightroom Denoise it came out acceptable.
Why are you using f8? your 400mm f4.5 with 1.4TC can open up to f6.3 with no loss of sharpness and can use lower ISO... Animals are more aware of noise, movement and outline than colour contrast in my experience, it's more important to be quiet, still, and not be backlit than to be camouflaged. Camouflage is mainly to avoid being spotted by other humans!
I found the teleconverter has a better rendition and sharpness stopping down to f8. I see, I think my next video is trying to get closer somehow. Thanks for the advice
@@russandlozI find ACR in Lightroom or Photoshop, I don't personally use Lightroom, has good noise reduction in "enhance", raw files only, up to 50 or 55%. Not so good beyond 55%. It's more subtle than DXO with low levels of artifacts, but DXO's new models do better with very noisy images. I only use Topaz on non raw files. Steve Perry has a video of using the Adobe Denoise on raw then selectively denoising masked areas with the old ACR standard Denoise. It works very well with difficult files but I find it quite time consuming..
Curious as to what frames/per/second (fps) you are using to capture the shots? I would tend to be using 15fps with a shutter speed of 1/2000th and the lowest available f stop with my Z8 or Z9.
For birds in flight I use H mode raw but for perching birds I use single release mode. I often use f8 with the teleconverter as it produces the best image rendition and sharpness stopping down
"I know you can get something that looks like a bush, I've got a hat somewhere" You have no idea how much I laughed at that, not at you, with you, don't ever change. That was gold. Let me repeat not laughing at you, just love your way of presenting. To answer the query if you are in a hide and poke a white lens out some wildlife might get spooked and maybe a lens cover can help but if others are in the hide forget it. Wandering around dressed like a bush I am not convinced but in a portable bush looking hide dressed in camouflage with the lens in camo cover it can help. I'd recommend this when you know for sure what is in the area and you arrive before sunrise. But for the most part being still and quiet will serve you well once arrived in a location.
I did mean it as a joke, just like wearing a green t-shirt might help lol. Glad you found it funny! It does seem like lack of movement is the key rather than being a bush.
@@russandlozI did wonder if intended as a joke, even funnier then for the deadpan expression !
The main thing is to use the proper focal length for the subject. Don’t use a 400 when an 800 is still too short and expect good results.
The birds can see you whether you are wearing camo or not. What works is to know your bird and their habits. Go to where the bird is going before they get there and be still. Your results should improve. Birds see movement and react, that is what keeps them alive.
You can see why wildlife pros love their 600/f4s! Having an extra two stops to play with would make a big difference to the noise.
I need 1/3200 to photograph my greyhounds and birds in flight. Using bursts at slower speeds and getting a couple of keepers for waders and static birds is something we couldn't do with DSLRs so it takes a bit of getting used to!
Yeah and with the built in TC of the 600 it’d be even more useful. Maybe the 400 2.8 would be just as good. As it’d be 560mm f4! Dream world
@@russandloz carry that sucker around for a while before you fall in love. Shes a fatty.
Hey Russ. Great vid. I’m going to repeat what someone else has said. It’s not ISO that creates noise in an image, it’s the available light hitting the sensor. Every situation from light, subject and how clean the image is is different. I’ve always said there is NO magic number, we just have to practice practice and when you think your getting somewhere, practice some more. This may sound daft but, I always once or maybe twice a months make the effort to visit my local small duck pond, just to practice BIF, stationary subjects and also slow moving subject for two reasons: #1 keeping muscle memory polished in my hands and body. #2 No matter the weather, I keep settings fresh in my mind with the different lighting conditions I find myself in. So all I’m trying to say is, settings change all the time, from subject to subject, from weather/lighting conditions from one day to the next, we then start learning all these variables over time which then allows us to narrow down the time and guess work to find a setting that only may work, because we’ll be closer to a better setting already in our heads. Anyway, keep up the great work and hope what I’ve wrote makes at least a little sense. All the best, Tom
Oh and P.S. Get that frame rate up to at least 15FPS on that bad boy or even 20FPS 😊
Yes every scene is different as is every bird speed and size. No golden rule I guess. But sure for BIF I’ll use 20fps. Really if I’m closer somehow none of it will be an issue. Thanks
If you are photographing a wedding (think that is your common reference) you would use a 24-70mm from 60 meters away from the bride and groom and expect good detail in the brides dress. Likewise, to not misunderstand the capabilities of long lenses don't use a 400mm or 560mm with the subject taking up 4% of the frame, this will almost never be a compelling image or an image of high detail. ISO is one factor in noise & pixellation but so is cropping 300%. My own opinion is 400mm to 600mm is optimum (for a variety of reasons and if anyone wants to get narky then 1. it is my opinion and 2. happy to share & justify my opinion if someone is really interested) in order to fill the frame (or make subject substantial in the frame) and give the option to include environment to tell a story BUT provided you get close enough. In some situations an 800mm plus 1.4 take may be the right luxury option but don't feel limited by the focal range of your kit just get closer to do it justice. Look through the your wedding shots and particualry those that include detail of say the dress and compare focal length to subject distance and apply this thinking to wildlife. Sometimes we forgo the detail for the action/event in front of us but often we want to marvel at some detail too which needs proximity.
You have good points there, my mission really should be to get a bit closer which could be fun really. Like you say with weddings I get as close as possible with my 50mm then crop in. Or Nikon could release a 70MP camera?
@@russandloz Even if they released a 200mp camera you will be dealing with the most problematic factors of long teles 1. Air quality, pollutant particles, haze etc the more of it (distance) the degradation 2. Vibration is magnified the longer the lens as is haze etc, everything negative is magnified with long lens and all the less forgiving the more pixels your sensor has.
@@markr3926 True, getting close is the key! But how really
That's my problem too, i can't get close enough to the birds, or if im there and i hear it, i can't find it in the woods XD. Do you know some forums or videos about this? I am not species specific, it doesn't matter, just be a wild bird and not a human friendly pigeon in the city.
(My gear: Nikon d7200+Sigma 150-600 contemporary, before that lens, i used a nikon 55-300mm, but the autofocus is too slow, too much hunting and not sharp at the long end and 2 days ago i upgraded to the sigma)
@@russandloz and @itachione Getting close has no one simple answer but it can be done. An obvious one is RSPB sites that have hides and known areas of particular birds. I go to one and see Marsh harriers everytime and they fly often within a distance to get great shots. They always have bird feeders with a variety of interesting birds and often these are just feet away. These places are a great option to visit often and hone skills from a closer distance and observe behaviours. The other options are knowing your areas, most wildlife is habitual and territory oriented so will be visible daily if you know where to look. In my local area I know exactly where to go to see Hen Harries, Marsh Harriers, Herons, Oyster Catchers, Curlews, Lapwings, Sand Pipers, kestrels, nut hatches, Hares, Deer, stoats and more. Just arrive calmly and quietly and get yourself sat in a good spot and wait for them to appear and do not make jerky noisey movements. Speak to people in specific areas to learn what is there. Barn Owls are often seen by locals to them on a daily basis in exactly the same spot hunting and perching. Get into the countryside and speak to people.
Another option is paid hides where the wildlife is provided with feeding stations be it cuckoo’s, sparrow hawks, pine martins, badgers, kingfishers, water rails etc.
also go to shorelines where you will find waders. Just do some research, learn your target animals or birds behaviours & activities and keep going to where they are and be quiet and still. Be observant, prepare for lots of time dedicated to patiently waiting and keep returning. It feels impossible but once you get used to it and start to get some results it feel a little easier and is very rewarding.
It is about the amount of light that falls on the sensor. low light causes noise. People think that ISO causes noise, but that is not the case. Every situation is different, so there is no fixed shutter speed. With stationary or slow-moving objects, it is best to keep increasing your shutter speed until you get to the point where you get movement in your subject.
I stick to 1/500. I never, ever change it. My golden shutter speed
Very interesting. So hoping to get one great one instead of getting lots of average one? What lens?
@@russandloz take a 1000 shots at 1/500 second of the Swifts flying and you’ll have 1000 blurred shots.
Nice pictures at lower iso. I see a Nikkor Z 800mm f/6.3 VR S is in your future. Maybe Nikon will let you try out one and compare the resolve power of double 400 in the lens.
Yes hopefully I’ll get to try the 600 6.3. Heard mixed reviews compared to the 400 with tc
I got some shots of a Hobby at RSPB Ham Wall yesterday, Z8, 180-600 1/1600 panned, f6.3 ISO80 Raw. detail came out pretty good. I saw a guy with something like a Canon 800mm on a monopod, I don't know how they can lock on a bird in flight!
How big in the frame? Guess if they do get the bird in frame at 800 it’ll be great?
@@russandloz On the computer screen I measured 250mm wide and cropped to 90mm and the Hobby was 50mm wide. I've just taken a Great Tit on the nut feed and the ISO was 12800 and after using Lightroom Denoise it came out acceptable.
Why are you using f8? your 400mm f4.5 with 1.4TC can open up to f6.3 with no loss of sharpness and can use lower ISO... Animals are more aware of noise, movement and outline than colour contrast in my experience, it's more important to be quiet, still, and not be backlit than to be camouflaged. Camouflage is mainly to avoid being spotted by other humans!
I found the teleconverter has a better rendition and sharpness stopping down to f8.
I see, I think my next video is trying to get closer somehow. Thanks for the advice
Very nice Russell !
it's a balance...
Try dxo pure raw 4 for noise reduction. They let you try before you buy 👍
Is it better than Lightroom?
Yes.
@@russandlozI find ACR in Lightroom or Photoshop, I don't personally use Lightroom, has good noise reduction in "enhance", raw files only, up to 50 or 55%. Not so good beyond 55%. It's more subtle than DXO with low levels of artifacts, but DXO's new models do better with very noisy images. I only use Topaz on non raw files. Steve Perry has a video of using the Adobe Denoise on raw then selectively denoising masked areas with the old ACR standard Denoise. It works very well with difficult files but I find it quite time consuming..
Curious as to what frames/per/second (fps) you are using to capture the shots? I would tend to be using 15fps with a shutter speed of 1/2000th and the lowest available f stop with my Z8 or Z9.
For birds in flight I use H mode raw but for perching birds I use single release mode. I often use f8 with the teleconverter as it produces the best image rendition and sharpness stopping down