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RFTC: FPV FLIR Thermal Camera Comparison, Detection Range and Flight Testing
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- Опубликовано: 17 мар 2014
- In this episode, the Roswell Flight Test Crew conducts a side-by-side comparison of different resolution FLIR thermal imaging cameras, testing their detection range for a human-sized target (specifically, Lucidity), as well as judging their effectiveness for FPV flying. The cameras tested include: the Tau2 640, the Tau2 320 and the Tau2 160. The purpose of these tests is to help first responders interested in deploying FLIR-equipped drones to compare the performance of different cameras, in order to select one that will meet their needs.
To read more about this video (and General George Armstrong Custer), follow this link: bit.ly/1eiYD7w
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Hey, this is a really cool video, and the fact that you're reviewing these cameras for SAR applications is great. Very neat.
There is a quote that I have heard attributed to General George Armstrong Custer, which I feel somehow parallels the reaction we're likely to get to this video: “During their lifetimes, there are very few people who will need a gun, but those who do need one will need one very badly.”
That same dynamic, I think, will hold true for our most recent project.
It will be of modest interest, at best, to your typical FPV flyer or even dedicated fans of our work. However, for that small fraction of our audience who is interested in using drones equipped with thermal imaging cameras for public safety missions, I suspect it will be invaluable.
We get a lot of questions about our FLIR, and whether or not it's necessary to purchase an expensive, top-of-the-line unit like ours - a Tau2 640 - to get good results in search and rescue, firefighting, and similar applications.
To answer that question, we put high, medium and low resolution cameras side-by-side-by-side in this video, so you can judge for yourself. We also compared different lenses that provide different fields of view on the different cameras, looking at whether they are too narrow to fly with, or too broad to pick up details.
Our analysis, in brief: the 640 is awesome, but costs more than twice as much as the medium-resolution 320, which is almost as good in every way that matters. The low-resolution 160 will work in a pinch, but it would be worth it to save up and buy a 320 - increasing your resolution by 100 percent while only increasing your cost by 30 percent.
Now, getting back to General Custer: I wasted a couple of hours doing research on him for my original blog post about this video - which became bloated and overwrought even by the generous standards of my own writing. A writer whose name I do not recall once said, “Research is the La Brea tar pit for writers,” and that certainly proved to be true for me in this instance.
However, I can think of no reason you should not profit from my ill-considered sojourn into that molten quagmire, so here are some facts I picked up about General Custer along the way:
1) Custer wasn't actually a general when he died at the Battle of Little Bighorn - he was a lieutenant colonel. During the Civil War, he was given a temporary promotion to General (called a “brevet”), but that had expired at the end of the conflict and he reverted to his original rank of captain. By military custom, officers are referred to by the highest rank that they achieved during their career.
2) He attended the United States Military Academy at West Point. Impressive, but he graduated last in his class: 34th out of 34 graduates that year. Today, the person who graduates dead last from West Point each year is known as the “goat.”
3) Custer's military career almost ended before it began. Shortly after graduating, he made what was judged to be a poor decision, by not intervening to stop a fistfight between two soldiers. Such was the opprobrium of his commanders that he was facing a court martial.
4) Only the start of the Civil War, and the Union Army's desperate need for trained officers, saved him from being drummed out of the corps.
5) In 1868, Custer was court martialed at Fort Levenworth, Kansas, for going AWOL to visit his wife.
Having learned all that, and much more, I researched the quote that I attributed to Custer in the lead paragraph above and I could find no evidence that he ever actually said it - which made the whole exercise a complete waste of time.
However, as any writer will tell you, you should never let the facts stand in the way of a good story.
Great comparison video. Believe it or not, the Flir is catching on with multirotor pilots and the Tau 2 is offered at the hobby shop that I get most I my gear from. I am curious how the video would look at night and from your FPV Tx. Instead of the DVR.
Excellent Comparisons and is extremely beneficial to a person like myself who does not have the resources or access to all three models. Extremely helpful!
great video guy! it was what made me finally order my Tau2 336 with 7.5mm. thanks!!
Thanks for the video, been searching for some sort of comparison between different pixels and distance of heat detection.
I always come back to this video! Thanks guys. Should do some thermal monocular review\ comparison videos.
Thanks for the video, really awesome work!
The reason why the range for Tau2 160 is shorte,r is because the pixels are decimated to twice the size. Hence the same FOV as Tau2 324...
Just a side note to any of you considering using the 30 fps Flir cameras, thinking about exporting to other countries, the US Dept of Commerce requires a paper work trail a mile long for anything over 9 FPS when selling outside of the US.
Great Video! Learned a lot, but crave more details. Do you have a simple wiring diagram? Also on one of your other videos you showed us FPV at night. How did you interface the FLIR for FPV? Thanks in advance.
The dropped camera is a "finder keepers". Also good job and thanks for keeping this companies honest with your instrumented test.
Hmmmm... That location is actually a grade school playground -- so if it is "finders-keepers," then it's probably in the backpack of an 11-year-old student somewhere in Wilsonville right now.
very informative thank you! here's a follow
brilliant job by people who know what they are doing, from uk
Very helpful my project, thx u
That FatShark battery can be tucked into the headband ;) Thanks for the great comparison.
I was out there in the fields, but couldn't find the camera ;(
the Tau 2 is actually the same camera, just bins the pixels in camera. That is why you get the same fov and a fake pixel pitch. less noise but more detail.
Another outstanding video! I get nervous putting up a $400 GoPro much less a $10,000 thermal camera. Great info for future public safety operations.
I remember when we used to get really nervous flying a GoPro. To this day, we're a bit unconventional in that we fly our GoPros inside their plastic housings -- a leftover from those fearful early experiments when machines would come tumbling out of the sky from time to time. We one had a GoPro separate from an aircraft (that was in the midst of crashing) and fall from 100 feet or so onto bare concrete. The only damage was a small scratch on the housing. Use the best quality components you can afford and fly obsessively -- you'll get there!
10,000 is utterly insane. Maybe they were that expensive back 9 years ago? But today, you can get a 320 uncooled thermal camera for $300 and a 640 uncooled thermal camera (slightly larger than a quarter) for around 1000-1200 dollars. Buying from large companies like FLIR is just wasting money, most of the sensors are very similar and smaller the supplier less they have the ability to overcharge their product.
Thanks for the look at some nice equipment.
You're very welcome! Thanks for watching and taking the time to leave a comment!
what a grat video. i cant get any information on youtube abour drone and flir
Really nice video guys. Great job!!!
Wow those are great prices I've been taking the UEX course and most of those sensors are in excess of 30,000 dollars. 4,000 is just about right for that payload, now to mix the gopro and Flir or IR image with a video mixer to the display and have the ability to tune that according to the lighting conditions and what you are trying to find, it would be nice to have both color cues and thermal or at least be able to switch quickly.
Your suggestion is very interesting, because that's exactly what FLIR is doing with the new FLIR ONE. It's an iPhone accessory with a very low-resolution thermal sensor -- only 80x80 -- but as you suggest, it combines that data with the visible light image from the iPhone's built in camera to construct a composite image. We're going to try to get our hands on one and see how it works.
What was that group of critters running through the break in the tree at say. 420 deer?
this was incredibly informative
As always, great job Guys. Thanks for the info.
Hey, Barry! You're welcome! Because this technology could literally help save lives, we wanted to do this right so that we would be putting out good information that people could use to make good, informed decisions.
Not something I might use but very interesting all the same thanks guys
Thank you! We recognize that this isn't an accessory that everyone is going to run out an purchase right away for their FPV platforms -- it's a specialty piece of hardware for specific missions. However, I'm glad you found it interesting nonetheless!
Never watched this channel before but both of these men seem extremely familiar?
Very informative and detailed video guys. I am looking at rigging a Vue Pro up with a micro DVR like shown in the video. Would you be able to provide any links to the models you guys favor ?
6:06 is flow the past tense of fly? What about flown
Not sure why you did the demo during the day.
Great informative video guys. Dang that's an expensive test rig! Hopefully the cost of FLIR will drop as new improved tech comes in. Always interesting to watch these in action.
NICE vid guys. Thanks for sharing!
Which video recording devices did you use and what do you recommend today?
Is there really a reason for the 640 to cost that much or is it because it's a very niche market?
Hi Guys, thumbs up for this amazing comparison and your great work. Is it possible to tell me which music you used at the beginning and at the end?
I have a tau nr:41640001x here can I found what spec it is and what expansion boar work with. Thank you
Have you done any comparisons between the 320 and 640 using the 19mm lens?
Hi, I loved que video but I have one doubt about flir thermal cameras. Can you compare Flir vue pro 640 vs Flir tau 2 640?
Hi Roswell Flight Test Crew, I just want to ask where do you guys buy the black and white camera? Since I can't afford to buy a Flir Cam that I can put in my tricopter. Many thanks.
why you trying it in day light??? it should be tested in the night
great stuff- have you compared NIR and FLIR yet? might make a great video!
No -- do you have a unit that you could recommend, and a source where we could get one?
It looked like you drop one of the flir cams when you were taking them out of the pockets
Really? I didn't notice... :)
Great stuff lads and i'm sorry to say the FLIR cameras are well out of my price range lol,still if your using quads and FPV for commercial use then you would have to go for the top of the range one,if not at the very least the mid range version.
Oh and you did have six cameras to start off with but Techenstein said he was going to send me one,so maybe that's why you only have five left now lol. ;-)
Top work as usual from you boys = thumbs up.
Maybe that's what happened -- unless he lost it somewhere... I'll remind him about that and see what he says. :) Thanks for tuning in -- glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for sharing.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching!
Lepton is coming. FLIR Systems has developed a technology that will put this kind of performance in very affordable packages. Stay tuned.
I'm curious what a more affordable alternative to the FLIR Tau2 would be?
AGM Global Vision Taipan TM15-384 Thermal Imaging Monocular 12 Micron 384x288 (50 Hz), White Hot, Black Hot, Red Hot, Fusion, Compact - $1300.00
Great test guys,wish I had pockets full of goodies like that.
Do Flir send you the cameras to test or do you fund them yourselves?
You reminded me of "The Hoff" when you stripped your jacket off;)
Oh, no... We could never afford to purchase a fist full of FLIR cameras -- FLIR loaned them to us specifically for the purpose of doing this testing and, sadly, took them all back when we were finished. As to any resemblance between me and David Hasselhoff is strictly coincidental and generously interprets the word "resemblance" I'm sure. Also, I don't have a self-aware talking car -- THAT would be cool.
"nope 5" ahah, its crazy that they cost that much but even crazier as to why that is.
Great video!
Thank you! We're glad that you enjoyed it!
6:42 No what you meant to say there was: "if i would be able to pawn the house, then I would.."
Even the cheapest is was out of the price range of the hobbiest, which is a shame. Althought I think Flir are making some cheap add on for an iPhone, so in theory they could possibly produce a lower cost camera for FPV, but there's hardly much competition out there, so it seems unlikely they'd need to
We've followed up with FLIR about the iPhone attachment, to see if we can get our hands on one for testing. It's actual a really clever design -- the thermal imager is only 80x80 pixels, but it uses the visible light image from the iPhone camera to add definition. Hopefully we'll be able to do a video so you can see how it works for yourself.
I want to use one of these on a rc u2 spy plane and use it for my airsoft
@ 0:51 you dropped a camera .
Can i buy it of you for cheap .. lol
Actually, they're pretty robust -- and there was a reason we were standing on grass for the opening bit. The stunt was cleared with a representative from FLIR before we did it -- we weren't about to start dropping $3,000 worth of camera without them signing off on it first.
How did it feel holding about $30,000 in cameras in your hand? :-)
Great question! To tell you the truth, it wasn't something that we thought about one way or the other. We were, as ever, facing a time crunch and we were just trying to finish the video so that we could get the cameras back to FLIR, so neither of us paused to think about what we were actually doing -- as you say, holding $30,000 worth of cameras, and even dropping one of them! In retrospect, it was kind of cool... We were just too busy to be giving that much thought while it was happening.
Nice demo,when you want to trade in that 120 for some gear let me know. I thought at first gee Raven has grown some new muscle. Waiting for a sub $1000. mini FLIR.
I wonder what keeps off far east copies though,
The 30 Hz FLIR is an export-controlled item and contains some pretty advanced technology, so I wouldn't bet on China beginning to churn out copies any time soon. And, for the record, we didn't get to keep any of those other cameras that we had for testing.
So, alas, we've got nothing to trade...
I jest anyways just bedazzled by the tech, you guys are lucky and doing some great work. I think the far east will have it on market though within 4 years. Sub $1000.
Chinese manufacturers are making 320x240 and 640x480 imaging cores pretty affordably at the moment - $500-3000, so comparable to FLIR, but without any export regulations.
Is there a cheap ground penetrating radar/sonar out there? in that 4k range?
I haven't got even the faintest notion... We're really multirotor guys, not sensor guys. We just got involved with FLIR because of the practical application for public safety missions, like firefighting and search and rescue.
Such a tool would be excellent for finding people trapped under collapsed buildings, I believe that the technology that might be upcoming is related to the Tetrahertz frequency.
Not to worry, you have enough natural adipose insulation to keep me and you warm.
Prices have dropped a lot since
At 817 what was the funny thing on the path
$10000.. holy fuck, yea FLIR sure as hell dont want these cameras in the ordinary Joe hands for sure..
those vests.....
Basically you pay a lot more for slight better resolution
You need the exercise.
Shit that is Expensive. More than all my fpv equipment combined even for the chepest one
Yeah, they're not cheap. We really put this video together with the advanced user in mind -- a volunteer SAR group building their own bird, for example. Maybe we should have made that explicitly clear -- we don't expect every hobbyist is going to be flying around with a FLIR, and there is nothing wrong with that... It's a very specialized (and expensive) piece of equipment and it provides capabilities that most folks are never going to need.
***** ya but man would it be cool
Wyll Soll Yeah, I obviously can't argue with you there...
Why are they so expensive
Well, you'd have to ask FLIR to get all of the details. I know that the thermal imaging sensor is a very expensive item -- which is why the costs go up so quickly as the resolution increases. Also, the lens is made out of precision ground Germanium. It's actually opaque to visible light (it looks like a black, polished stone close up), but it bends thermal emissions the way a glass lens bends visible light. I know that's another very expensive component. And, finally, because it's a US export controlled item, they probably aren't outsourcing much of the manufacturing overseas.
***** Great reasons, Thanks
Another terrific video guys!! Hey that park and school looks awfully familiar, wink wink :D Would you guys like a Brushless Gimbal for your FLIR? I'd be happy to design one for ya, just shoot me an email... Or, when is the next PdxDrones meetup???
Hopefully Scott will get PDXDrones back in gear -- it sounds like he's had a lot going on at work. I'll let Brian know about your generous offer to build a gimbal for the FLIR -- it probably is something that we should have in the arsenal.
I recognized that "circular structure". I took a walk in that park earlier today. :)
Can't wait until this technology is affordable for an average Joe. Probably will be half a century though. : (
I don't think you'll have to wait that long -- FLIR is on the cusp of releasing the FLIR ONE: an iPhone attachment with a thermal imager. Now, it's really low resolution -- only 80x80 -- but it combines the thermal data with the iPhone's built in visible light camera through edge-detection processing and so forth. We're going to try to get our hands on one for testing. If it works, it will be much, much, much less expensive than the units we were testing.
Cool! I'll keep an eye out.