I love that she told him to shut it! Some Muslim men need to lighten up. Its the 21st C come join the rest of us and stop making your female relatives miserable.
You don’t get it. These people , even the most liberal Muslims are totally against the western world. We should ban the very religion of Islam in the western world. It’s not a matter of the century, it’s about this religion. It’s impossible to mix western world and Muslims. They should stay in their country, and we westerns stay here. Respect our differences and boundaries.
+CrazyForCooCooPuffs Another thing that Sam has said that I 100% agree with -- "The difference between the fundamentalists and the moderates is that the fundamentalists have actually read the books"
"It has nothing to do with the women" Tariq Ramadan. No, Tariq, it has everything to do with the women. You see it is political and an insult to Islam because women are invisible to you and you don't see that dimiishing half the population of a society diminishes all of the society. Women are NOT your political football.
Tariq Ramadan once said: "Uhhhm...ahh...oh la la....(hehehe)...mais non, ca vas bien, ...uhm....(urgh!)....Haha..uh...oke, alorrrs....je suis...uhm... pas le Charlie...(hehehe)...winkwink...oink oink...mais....c'est pas l'islam" - since then I really do admire him for his islamic eloquence and great insight - a hero of 'Free Speech' of mine.
Thats not why it should be banned. I don't think any item of clothing should be banned because it is considered offensive to people. The problem here is that it is like wearing a balaclava, and is a threat to public health, people have already used them to get away with robberies.
Boogie Knight a balaclava is a a face mask generally used by robbers to hide their identities. If people were walking into shops with any form of mask be it jabba the hut or chewbacca or a burqa it should not be allowed. I'm not Muslim so I have no idea what your'e talking about.
What an irrelevant question... from a Muslim of course!! Clubbers do their thing implicitly. ...and it is so for pornography... ...and both are subject to very strict regulations by the state! You cannot do porn in a bus stop! It is prohibited by the state! ...but want to wear your Islamic bigotry called the niqab, in a bus stop!? How people will tell there is a women under the veil then? Maybe there is a thief under it? ...or a criminal at large? ...or maybe a gun is hidden under it? ...or maybe it is a suicide bomber inside there? HOW WILL WE TELL!? Enough with your religion... enough with your bigotry... I live in a damn Muslim country... and I'm sick of your disgustingly insincere apologies! Shut the fuck up already... ...and start using your brains NOW to understand the situation the world is in with your 14 century old nonsensical belief system! ...you only piss people off with your irrelevant apologies! Stop it! NOW!
The French should be celebrated for having the courage to stand up to oppression, intimidation and inequality born of the stone age. This is a small victory for common sense in an increasingly religiously divided world.
I agree with all you said except this: "increasingly religiously divided world" Have you ever read history? you are saying the world is more divided now on religioun then in the 1600's?
@Melissa Streeter wtf? Are u islamophobic or racist sorta person?😂 U country literally feeds on muslim majority countries( in africa, asia and Middle East). Just go search for a min. U'll find a lot about ur place haha
Good on the French,This should be done here. These hideous outfits are highly offensive to many people in the same way as i would cause offence if i walked down the street wearing a balaclava with eye holes. Again,i salute the French.
Religions always ask for more individual freedom when that helps religions to progress in the society. But you will never see religions fighting for individual right to quite religions, to abort, to have men-women equality...
You heard the girl at the bus stop. She said she didnt really know. That she had been taught since she was young. That she shouldnt be too western And then contradicts herself by saying it was her choice? She managed to collapse her own reasoning within herself in a few short seconds in her naivity and entrappment.
SuperSupermanX1999 you dont need time to prepare your own views. I know who I am and what I stand for and so does every other person who hasnt been bombarded with what they shoud think instead of taking time to think for themselves.
What I find so unbelievably shocking to the point where it's absolutely hilarious is how France has DIRECTLY made a law attacking the Muslim community/population of their nation by banning a certain aspect of SPECIFICALLY the religion of Islam, and yet, the law is still in place. What a big elephant in the room, don't you think? The country of France - an extremely powerful, well-known, staple-to-the-mind nation - (as well as majorly non-muslim) trying to find reasons to ban the burqa and attacking Islam? And then coming up with well-thought-out explanations and quote-on-quote 'reasons,' (more like EXCUSES) to jUSTIFY the blunt attack of Muslims in their nation? It's pretty clear that this is all fake. The country does not care about 'protecting' women's rights at all. If the country really cared about helping women's rights, why not ban weight-loss drugs? Why not ban dangerous types of plastic surgeries? Why not ban facetune? Why not ban the PLETHORA of OTHER things affecting women's health?? This is why it is SO FUNNY TO ME. Why do I have to EXPLAIN all this? OPEN YOUR EYES and take a look at what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING HERE. Muslims are being TARGETED, EXPLICITLY TARGETED. The things that the law-supporters are trying to say is such a load of bullshit. BULL. A TEN YEAR OLD could come up with the arguments that they are trying to come up with!!!! And it's just SO hilarious to see people being manipulated and FALLING FOR all this media crap. It's so funny that people are actually listening to the arguments that people like Mona and whoever-his-name-is "author guy," have to say. Don't you all see? Don't you all REALIZE that you are being manipulated by the media and being tricked into falling for the train of thought that they WANT you to fall into? I thought society was smarter than that... I thought people had bigger brains and more common sense. Can all of you WAKE up and realize what France is doing??? France - an EXTREMELY powerful country, mind you) is legitimately attacking muslims and yet the law IS STILL IN PLACE. This is why I am just sitting here, laughing my ASS off at how SUCCESSFUL France is right now... How SUCCESSFULLY they were able to get away with passing a law like this DELIBERATELY AND EXPLICITLY attacking Muslims.
@@xxmeowxx9274 the law doesn't ban the burqa in homes or in the church, does it? It only bans it in public spaces. So u can get naked in your house but not on the street in front of your house. Any space you share with the public you cannot wear a burqa or get naked. The law is clearly not about women's health. How would you feel if I came to your house with my face covered in a ski mask? How would you feel if you answered your door and found a ninja in front of you? The prevalence of evil has made it hard for good to be noticed. If a woman wearing a burqa hangs around a bank and the bank gets robbed after 10 minutes by women in masks, don't you think people will be wondering if she was part of the act? In a high tension western country like France, that law is in place for security reasons. If Christian and Jewish women start to dress the way ancient Persian women dressed by covering their faces in public spaces everywhere, that law will be passed wherever they are as well.
The woman from Bangladesh who does the magic tricks. What a beautiful person. She is also incredibly brave considering her environment. I fear that the only way she can feel at ease is to move to a place where there are few if any Muslims. Far too much of the Muslim culture is still caught in its backwards 7th century mentality. Although I sense that that may be insulting given that I'm sure not everyone at that time had such primitive beliefs.
This woman is a goddess. Everything she is saying against Tariq is completely accurate and I am so glad she said it on television; using him as an example for the actual oppression of women
What I find so unbelievably shocking to the point where it's absolutely hilarious is how France has DIRECTLY made a law attacking the Muslim community/population of their nation by banning a certain aspect of SPECIFICALLY the religion of Islam, and yet, the law is still in place. What a big elephant in the room, don't you think? The country of France - an extremely powerful, well-known, staple-to-the-mind nation - (as well as majorly non-muslim) trying to find reasons to ban the burqa and attacking Islam? And then coming up with well-thought-out explanations and quote-on-quote 'reasons,' (more like EXCUSES) to jUSTIFY the blunt attack of Muslims in their nation? It's pretty clear that this is all fake. The country does not care about 'protecting' women's rights at all. If the country really cared about helping women's rights, why not ban weight-loss drugs? Why not ban dangerous types of plastic surgeries? Why not ban facetune? Why not ban the PLETHORA of OTHER things affecting women's health?? This is why it is SO FUNNY TO ME. Why do I have to EXPLAIN all this? OPEN YOUR EYES and take a look at what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING HERE. Muslims are being TARGETED, EXPLICITLY TARGETED. The things that the law-supporters are trying to say is such a load of bullshit. BULL. A TEN YEAR OLD could come up with the arguments that they are trying to come up with!!!! And it's just SO hilarious to see people being manipulated and FALLING FOR all this media crap. It's so funny that people are actually listening to the arguments that people like Mona and whoever-his-name-is "author guy," have to say. Don't you all see? Don't you all REALIZE that you are being manipulated by the media and being tricked into falling for the train of thought that they WANT you to fall into? I thought society was smarter than that... I thought people had bigger brains and more common sense. Can all of you WAKE up and realize what France is doing??? France - an EXTREMELY powerful country, mind you) is legitimately attacking muslims and yet the law IS STILL IN PLACE. This is why I am just sitting here, laughing my ASS off at how SUCCESSFUL France is right now... How SUCCESSFULLY they were able to get away with passing a law like this DELIBERATELY AND EXPLICITLY attacking Muslims.
@@1984magu why people like u always says misinformation about islam? ive never seen any muslims against any religion but yet we’re the one who play the bad guy here
Nick Harris i'm so democratic that I support freedom for self oppression with the niqab and freedom for the self-destruction of society in the democratic election process of allowing islamists into parliaments.
TheFlyingHorse1 I work with muslim women, some cover their hair, some do not. None of them veil, but that doesn't bother me either. I still don't get what all the fuss is about as long as it's their choice.
What is the point of Tariq Ramadan? Every time I see him debate he comes across as staggeringly ignorant and barely able to put together a coherent argument.
Joshua Brooks Thats a very sweet offer, thank you. But i'm not gay. Good luck finding someone though. Perhaps you can search the homosexual dating sites.
allthewine It has nothing to do with what they wear - it's what they say. But you clearly don't have the intelligence/education to understand the issue here. Never mind. Merry Christmas.
TheLKline Right I don't have the intelligence as you say despite having two degrees and a masters. You clearly have a problem with a Muslim woman wearing a Burqa. And who gives a fuck if they might want to hold onto a bit of their culture?
The answer is obvious. The hijab or any other clothing choice is acceptable. Two exceptions: 1) No public nudity. 2) No face covering. Covering the face for any reason poses important security issues. It has nothing to do with religion.
+Eli Hassen (Brah) I guess it depends what kind of mask, where and when. imo you cannot wear a mask while standing in front of a bank teller or a store cashier. Another question: Can I wear a scarf across my face in a winter snowstorm. The answer to that has to be yes. Then how do we address the security issues of anonymity? I don't know, but hiding one's identity remains a problem.
+Cool hat Security is also an issue, but that's not a part of the debate they touched on here, and it's also resolved more easily. In practice, I don't believe there are that many incidents where women have refused to remove a face-veil when required for security reasons eg. airports, identification photos, etc. (Correct me if I'm wrong) This is more about the debate between religious freedom (to wear a veil) vs. the perceived oppression of a minority within their own religion.
That muslim guy at the last part is disturbingly one sided. When it was his time to talk nobody interrupted him. When the lady's turn to talk he just keeps on interrupting.
16:20 "Stop talking. I'm talking". Brilliant. Here is a guy who isn't accustomed to being told what to do by a woman, or listening to what a woman has to say.
"so the only right way of being a muslim is an invisible muslim?" Exactly, Tariq, that is what we want - because religion should be a private issue in any secular state.
That woman in the hijab completely contradicted herself saying "We've been taught that since we were young to cover up" and then saying "we do it out of choice". AKA you have been forced since a young age to wear the scarf from the Muslim community.
that Muslim woman who doesn't wear the hijab seems like an amazing lady. her magic tricks are awesome and its hilarious that some ignorant people see them and cry out: "witch!!"
I have many muslim friends who said it was their choice to wear it in the beginning. However, all of them told me in confidence that they were told by their husband's family that they want the newlywed wife to wear a burka/niqab. I'm sure there must be some people who do it by choice but I don't think it's the case most of the time.
After what happened in Sri Lanka full face coverings should be banned in the UK. Covering the hair should not be a problem as we have seen with nuns and seihks.
How dare they ban the burqua! If these ladies wish to be invisible, then we should courteously respect their wishes by totally ignoring them and treating them as invisible or non-existent!! For example, if one comes to the head of a queue, simply look past her and say, "Next!!" Problem solved!!!
The problem with debates on television is that they end it when it starts to become interesting. This Tariq Ramadan is wrong on every point and resorts to ad hominem attacks that can not be verified. It's amazing how Mona Eltahawy destroy Tariq's points and this doe-eyed host fails to handle the situation, interrupts and makes annoyingly intonated biased statements.
Mona isn't exactly an intelligent person, she didn't make any valid points and herself resorted to an ad hominem in the very first sentence she uttered. Tariq in fact did make a few valid points regard the role of the state in its ability to dictate how we should dress, if were talking about the banning of the muslim veil then it should be based on it posing a security risk and not on the purported 'liberation of women.'
Vassago X I think the most significant thing is, as sometimes pointed out, that the only freedom such a strain of Islam wants for women is the "freedom" of women to cover themselves up.
Yes, they should be banned. ANYTHING that covers the face should be banned. We need to be able to see who a person is to deal with them. If you want to wear a burka, go to a Muslim country and stay there.
now if you train a dog from infancy to dance, it will dance. same with veil of girls, they are psychologically enslaved from childhood with niqab and burqa.
+Harish Kiran The girl at 4:29 was revealing, saying perhaps a bit too honestly that they've been taught since they were young to cover up to not appear too Westernized before finally falling back on the canard that she's probably been taught to say that it's just her choice.
The Muslim man says that "who is the state to say what a woman can and can't wear" in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan, Pakistan and Afghanistan specific dress codes are required for women. And failing to veil your face can result in prosecution and violence in some of these countries.
@ Scat Man , so we in the west should look to saudi arabia for guidance? Also, there are muslim countries that allow western and muslim clothing like Lebanon for example.
I love when the beautiful woman says that she was indoctrinated when she was young to cover up, and in the same breath says that she chooses to cover up. Lol
Sam was so calm in the face of Paxmans fire. (calm voice) "I think theres something sinister about this religious expression" (raised voice" "Oh you find it offensive?, you find it frighting" (calm voice) "no, no, its nothing to do with being frightened, it has to do with the fact that some percentage of women are being forced..." (raised voice) "forced, their all being forced" (same calm voice) "no, some are being forced and...". Such a boss. Unfortunately most people can't keep calm like that.
She said it was "her choice" to wear that hijab. However, she had been indoctrinated from birth to wear it. In reality, she could not come up with her own reason for wearing it.
If Muslims are so upset about banning women from wearing burkas in public, why don’t Muslim men wear them? If the burka is so great and freeing to women, surely men should be allowed to partake in such a terrific practice 🙄
amwahid25 Oh I don't know, maybe the fact that he reiterates his dated views by continually interrupting the others being interviewed? I'd have respected him had he been able to have a reasoned debate.
Most "choose" it because they don't want to be disowned or worse......the others only choose it because they were forced when they were younger so it gives them comfort.............ofc if you are covered your entire life, you are more likely to feel exposed when you are no longer covered..........hell, there are some people who refuse to leave there homes because they are afraid of other people.........there are all kinds of folks.
Paxman makes me laugh with his pompous authority. The only person i've ever seen him completely capitulate to is Chrisopher Hitchens; Paxman was like a little boy in his presents. The Islamic bloke on this video is a hypocritcal moronic nob who openly shows the oppressive side of Islam towards women during his little primitive outburst. The woman gave him a diva bitch-slap. And is it just me, or is Harris turning into Kermit the frog? His voice and face is concerningly similar.
Banning specific items of clothing is not worthy of a democracy. Saying that you can't wear a niqab is almost as stupid as saying you must wear a head scarf.
So if a religion/culture said wives must wear handcuffs, our democracy should support it? Why should women have to cover up their faces due to medieval religious intolerance? It's all down to indoctrination, so the sooner its broken the better. What sort of a religion/culture treats half its followers as lesser people? An ignorant intolerant one!
Neil Fawcett Not banning is not the same as supporting. Being an alcoholic is legal in all civilized countries, that does not mean that governments support alcoholism.
***** Drinking too much alcohol is indeed not illegal, as it is (currently) deemed to be ones own choice to do so. However, the niqab is a form of sexist indoctrination. Do all members of the religion/culture wear it? No... Why is that? It all harks back to Islam's core sexist attitute towards women, which should not be permitted in any democracy. It's outdated!
Neil Fawcett You want to outlaw wearing masks that protect from pollution too? Otherwise they could wear those instead of a niqab, am I right? I totally agree with you on most of things you write, but making specific items of clothing illegal is stupid. It would be like banning leather-wests because we don't like motorcycle-gangs.
So let me get this straight: Some people have gone to this lovely woman's place of work and directly harassed her for just behaving as she wants to and some others have COMPLAINED TO HER EMPLOYER that she shouldn't be acting like this. I don't want to hear any debate, listen to any other arguments and hear any whining from religious apologists. That is wrong, no it's EVIL. We must redouble our efforts to protect this Asian woman for her bravery, and encourage others to do the same and fight with all our energy against this religious and cultural depravity.
It’s hypocritical for traditionalist Muslims to say that the secular state has no right to tell people what to wear when they are perfectly happy for a theocratic state to do so. There’s no point arguing with religious fundamentalists whether Muslim or anything else: they aren’t interested in anyone’s views but their own. Theocracies and liberal democracies cannot peaceably coexist. Those who choose to live in officially secular societies had better make up their minds which is ultimately more important to them: the traditions of their faith or the trappings of modernism. You can’t have it all - at least, not all at the same time...any ideas to the contrary are a recipe for societal discord which can lead to disaster. It is possible for theocracies to thrive in isolation; but the imposition of theocratic modes of behaviour has no place in a pluralist and open society. Modernism offends traditionalist religious sensibilities. This inevitably leads to resentment and conflict.
Yes it's amazing. *I was taught it from a young age* and then *but it's just a personal choice.* Someone is seriously deluded about what personal choice means. I think she means she personally chooses not to get the belt from her dad for not wearing it, by wearing it. Very sad thing.
An Actual Prostitute yep and all of them freely choose to wear a black burqa 7 days a week how come no woman has ever woken up and said hmmm I think today I'll freely choose to wear my yellow burqa I guess it's just a coincidence that millions of women are freely choosing to wear the exact same thing lol
The fact that a serious conversation about this topic has to happen in the UK should cause serious concern in the present and for the demographic future.
I wonder if Paxman would feel the same if he saw in action or the aftermath of Taliban attack on a Pakistani village blowing up little girls at school because they what to learn...
It was pretty telling how the islamic man in the video was completely respectfull of taking turns speaking except when it came to the muslim woman speaking out. He really did appear to want to silence her. I don't know if agree with banning the burka, but to say that women want to wear it is probably a bit of a strech. how much indoctrination and oppression was required how much domination to get women to the point of saying this is what i want to wear. I doubt any woman would choose to be a faceless shadow in a crowd without some pretty heavy duty male dominated pressure.
With respect I think everyone in the video was responding in an emotionally charged way, probably because the burqa debate is itself so emotionally charged. Tariq and Mona certainly didn't see eye to eye as you point out, but I genuinely feel Tariq just let his guard down because of personal attacks against him not because of a disrespectful attitude towards women. There is at least one other video where Mona is talking with another Muslim woman who is wearing niqab about burqa bans, who also interrupts Mona partly I think because Mona was speaking most of the time and Mona makes generalisations that others may feel are unfair and misleading. In particular, Mona's belief that no one should be allowed to wear a burqa because it can never be a free choice contradicts Tariq's view for example that even though he doesn't advocate the burqa he believes women do have the ability and should have the choice to cover as little or as much as they want (even if he doesn't personally agree with their logic), and that the government should not be able to tell people what to wear. You might notice Mona was the first to personally attack Tariq by questioning his attitude towards an unrelated topic of the location of an Islamic centre I believe. Mona also framed herself as a feminist when she said she disagrees with everything Tariq said which implicitly makes Tariq out as a misogynist as she was was asked to articulate herself in direct response to Tariq's views. He also called her a neoconservative and you can see why Mona would not like being labelled as such but in context I don't think he was was displaying a particular disrespect for women - he merely seemed concern that Mona was presenting her personal views about banning the burqa and niqab as the view of all Muslim women which it clearly isn't. I think many many people who wouldn't make a certain decision such as wear a burqa struggle with the plausibility of someone else ever making that decision for themselves. But I think that we can't just ignore women systematically who assert that they make such a choice. As a Muslim woman who covers despite the views of important males in my life, I know there are people who will never accept that I can make such a decision for myself but I am equally sure that I can and have. To deny women their right to dress as they choose, and in a way that accords with their beliefs, because of assumptions about their ability to reason unimpaired is itself a form of oppression I feel because it assumes certain women have not been raised in a way that they are rational enough to think for themselves. I personally think that when women (and men) take up plastic surgery for cosmetic reasons for example, you could argue it's not truly their choice as their insecurities might reflect superficial notions of beauty in wider society but to a certain extent we accept that people who have been exposed to the views of parents, advertising, media, friends, consumerism etc are not just a mirror of the outside world - we are ultimately more or less free to do as we please and this is no different. Apologies for the essay :P
no problem you make some good point s. You picked the right analogie for me with the plastic surgery thing because i am personally pretty disgusted by the idea except in some fairly extreme instances. I still think it is very difficult to float the idea that any woman would choose the burka completely freely. I think if you remove every trace of male superiority and mysogyny the entire reason for the burka vanishes and while women would be free to choose it none would, I realize this is a highly hypothetical situation with no basis in reality, because there is a strong male dominance involved i think it is impossible to ever say now that it is a totally free choice. You make some good points. The fact that the muslim world even has a tradition of burka wearing i think tells a pretty damning story about it unfortunately. I disagree that this is no differant that just media exposure and mirroring the outside world there is a world of differance. These woman become faceless. I think it is patently dehumanizing, if it weren't where are the mens burkas? Unless you can show me a man who chooses to wear a burka out of a reason other than protest I have to say it is so crystal clear that it is a form of dominance over women.
pooyan17 Also I want to add that I respect you as a woman and respect you enough to never concede that the Burka is anything but a tool that has been used to subdue and control you and your fellow women. The fact that you may chose to wear one in no way negates this. Is it actually a burka that you wear or is it just the niqab? Because i feel their is a world of difference as your face and individuality is what opponents to the burka want to protect. Indeed it is entirely motivated by respect for you as a person. And as a woman.
My apologies for the delay in responding, but thank you for your prompt, respectful, insightful and thoughtful response. I can see why you might feel that full face veils are demeaning and sexist, especially given widespread media stereotypes and discourse about Muslims. But I have yet to see empirical evidence for these views that can justify an outright ban. My own experience with unveiled, veiled and full faced veiled women has marked no discernible difference in how much men impact their lives. They merely choose to exercise their privacy in public spaces and express their adherences religious convictions or lack thereof in different ways. I have been fortunate to see such women in both public and private spaces to see that they are just as vibrant, visible and aware as women who dress differently. As communication platforms increasingly diversify, as blind people are perfectly capable of communicating in a nuanced way, as pseudo-scientific ways to assess truth, happiness, etc through facial expressions are increasingly debunked and practices such as racial profiling are increasing challenged, the ideological view that veiled women are becoming invisible or lost is hard to justify in reality. I have been looking for evidence about the burqa or niqab being necessarily a patriarchal practice but studies consistently show women in France wear the burqa of niqab for themselves first and foremost. Sometimes this is with the support of male others but it is also often completely against the views of males in their lives. However, there is evidence that women who choose to wear a full face veil have been exposed to greater stigma and discrimination after the bans have occurred, and by forcing women to choose between public participation and wearing something which they feel is consistent with their most personal and religious beliefs, participation of such women in the public sphere has been reduced unnecessarily. Around a third of women who wear full face veils are converts, and many others who wear it were born in France. It’d be hard to argue they aren’t fully aware of alternative codes of public dress. Albeit as you indicate, the human world is not a vacuum - there are many complex interactions taking place that we cannot easily control for or isolate. But that doesn’t give us free reign to interfere with the personal peaceful decisions of women or men on the basis of our contrary views. More importantly, I don't think that the mere fact that people feel uncomfortable with full face veils, or speculate that it is the result of male influence or must be a symbol of misogyny is enough to outweigh the assertions and personal beliefs of women who wear it without rigorous contrary evidence. Otherwise this is tyranny by the majority, exactly what democracy is designed to protect against. I respect that you feel that unless men and women are free to make identical decisions, this is discrimination, but for me this is not a problem as long as there are comparable opportunities and responsibilities. For example, it would be absurd in my view to have maternity leave for men since they cannot give birth, but having comparable opportunities such as paternity leave to look after young kids is logical and comparable. Similarly in Islam, modesty is something which applies equally to both men and women, but it gives rise to different obligations and opportunities, largely due to physiological differences (just as you might find it rare for men to wear a bikini :P). Another example of difference is the Islamic requirement for a groom to give a mahr/dowry to the bride, without any reciprocal obligation on the part of the bride. This takes into account financial vulnerability and seeks to protect women in case of divorce. Given the continuing disparities between pay for men and women for example in the world today, it seems pretty fair to impose this one sided obligation without it being a form of negative discrimination. We both agree that women should never be forced to do something as against their own interest. But the government banning the right of women to dress in a full face veil in public if they so choose is just as patriarchal and misogynistic as forcing women to wear it. There are reasonable limits to wearing such garments that women may agree to, such as security checks at airports, etc but that is very different to an outright ban based on feelings of personal disagreement. There are too many examples of so called noble intentions or patriarchal practices that have been justified on the grounds of helping people who are seen as less capable of helping themselves, such as forced sterilisation of people with a disability, colonialism, or in Australia for example the historical removal of Indigenous children from their parents which has been referred to as the Stolen Generations. I wear a hijab without a face veil, but that is my personal choice and I think every woman has the right to wear as little or as much as she feels comfortable wearing in accordance with her own convictions and moral code. Plus I've seen and read that women encounter similar kinds of counterarguments to the use of all kinds of veils under the guise (however well meaning) of looking out for the person who wishes to make this decision. I simply advocate that women are perfectly capable of making decisions for themselves unless rigorously proven otherwise (not mere personal attitude or suspicions, even if held by a majority), and without such contrary rigorous evidence there is no way that these bans can be justified. If governments are concerned about the wellbeing of their citizens I commend this in every way, but punishing people in order to protect them is very rarely the answer. If there is a genuine concern for the wellbeing of women, then there needs to be an open, respectful dialogue with that person to assess whether this is legitimately founded and if so to ascertain what supports they benefit from without vilifying them. It is more important that policies which seek to benefit minority groups are not counterproductive and build trust, regardless of whether they are counterintuitive to the sentiment of the majority (especially if that sentiment is not backed by sufficient evidence).
I am willing to listen to why you think women cover themselves. I won't go so far as to agree they must be covered. As far as molesting women and Girls, I haven't looked at studies about that, I would suspect the type of men include some sociopaths or psychopaths, also probably some that are victims of abuse themselves. I would also assume some are Socially isolated and sexually repressed. I would not be surprised if many were made to feel shamefull as children. If they live in a country where that kind of behavior is illegal, then it is safe to say they are all criminals. I get the sense that you are suggesting that women and girls must be ''covered'' in order to protect them from abuse. If that is the case why not create harsher laws for punishing the abuse of women instead of laws requiring further hiding of women? The Laws that are past in many Islamic nations (See Egypt) seem focused on punishing women for the ill behavior of men. Look I am open to discussing the issue, I am all for freedom generally, but I think there is a reason we should be able to see a persons face in society. To me it is part of Human nature as Social creatures to be able to look someone in the face and evaluate them. Are they happy? Do they need a kind word this morning? Are they about to rob me? I just don't think this would be a free choice without first a heavy dose of religious indoctrination. I don't believe that the Qu'ran is the true word of the creator, and if i understand corectly the Burka isn't even part of the Qu'ran or Hadith (sp?) So in what sense Must a woman be covered? I really feel sorry for women who live in Muslim theocracies. They are severely marginalized. I wish they all had the choice to wear what they wanted, but they don't Even in free nations I think many women face threats from their husbands and Muslim communities. I know that a large number of British Muslims actually think Death should be the Punishment for Apostacy. In what sense is anyone free when their community believe they should Die for choosing to leave?
I think we should ban clothing. We are taught to be ashamed of our bodies from a young age( christian values and whatnot). Being nude is true liberation, you people just wear clothes because you are oppressed.
Soo, let me get this straight. When women tell you that they're not forced to wear a hijab/nicab we should not take them at their word. However, we should always take terrorists at their word as to what motives them.
Sam Harris is above this whole show....the host is a tit,the woman is correct but works mostly from emotion and Tariq is a time and again proven antagonist and Muslim defender/apologist.Sam makes these people look like children arguing on a playground
Absolutely the right law. If there was a religion that said women must be walked in public with a collar and a leash, the practice should be banned--even if the women said that they choose to wear the collar because of their beliefs. It's also important to note that this apparently isn't in the koran
It shouldn't be about religion, expression, clothing or telling people what to wear. It should be about covering face. You don't ban burka, you don't ban niqab....you ban covering faces ! Not only in banks. You should be free to wear what you like, walk around dressed as batman or ninja, but you can't cover your face in a store, shop, train, bus,market, office building, mall, hospital, library, waiting room, playground, theater...etc. Streets and sidewalks should practically be the only public place where you can walk around with covered face. Until you enter store, shop etc.
modern society wouldn't allow loads of people to go around wearing nazi swastika and such stuff because it represents something we dont like. This needs making clear rather than the other silly comparisons like nakedness. Another good comparison is we wouldn't like significant numbers of people wearing masks or such full!face balaclavas in many situations.. It would be ratherer disconcerting and frightening. It is tricky balance with our freedoms but there is an argument that burqa etc represents repression of women rights although in many cases there may be active choice to wear such . Tricky debate worthy.
+blanca roca Totally agree with you. When you wear a particular ideology on your sleeve in public you should accept that this will have implications on the way that people receive you. I agree with the Nazi comparison because I believe that the evils of Nazism are somewhat comparable to those committed in the name of Christianity and Islam. Islam IS a supremacist ideology and when implemented properly, in accordance with the doctrines set out in the Quran & the example of Muhammed, it would make Hitler, Stalin and Mao blush.
blanca roca it's not tricky. Concealing your identity should be illegal for EVERYONE. A lot of these debates could be solved by children. We just need to show some bollocks.
My problem with someone covering their face (except for the eyes), has nothing to do with the person's motivation for covering their face. My problem with it arises when I'm communicating with such a person. Communication is both verbal and non-verbal (in about equal measure). When someone actively prevents me from picking up the non-verbal part of our face-to-face communication, we're not communicating on equal terms. I'm not getting the full picture while my conversation partner does.
This was ostensibly intended as a debate, but it somehow ended as a bazaar scene. I’m so glad that the loathsome J.P. lost control of the conversation and had a little taste of his own medicine. Well done!
+radical ally your lack of knowledge of Islam is trully amazing. I read Quran, Hadith and Sura. Mohamed kill over 900 persons with his owm sword ( quraish tribe ) the tribe that brought him up as a child. Mohamed create a armie and send them to fight yet you say mohamed never fought ? Lol you are not a muslim since you dont know nothing about islam. Is mohamed was alive today he will be ISIS comander, they are doing all what mohamed did before them. Mohamed burn people alive like isis. Mohamed decapiated people like isis Mohamed force women in to slavery like isis. Muslim are the only religius people that i know that dont know anything about their relgiums.
The Hijab and Niqab or Burqa are cultural items which derive their existence from ancient patriarchal cultural beliefs, they are not religious items as far as the research I have done seems to suggest. What Muslim women wear is purely derived from the cultural background and nation they or their family originated from. It is obvious to anyone who applies even a modicum of rational thought to this, if it was a religious item of clothing required to be worn because of Muslim beliefs, then why are there such extremes between the three items? One covers the hair only another the face and the last the entire person, all three originate from different cultural backgrounds. Why when the Qur'an is so precise on all things, is it not clear on which head-dress should be worn if any at all? I've been to Muslim nations which don't expect any head-dress to be worn, I'm somewhat confused as it seems a purely cultural non-religious thing which has taken on religious meaning where in fact there is no genuine evidence to support that claim.
I hear you... In the UK it's worn in order to provoke, quite often by teens who want the attention. It's that simple. Look at the "Jihadi-cool "thing as Rushdie calls it. It's attention seeking - getting on the x-factor is difficult - but your 15 mins of fame can be accessed instantly as a Muslim if you are "offended" or "victimised" or you buy a plane ticket to Syria. Wear what the hell you want, I'm all for free expression. But, in life it's practical, social, respectful and reasonable to want see the face of people you interactive with. We need to come down on this bullshit.
K Russell Agreed, sure people should have the right to wear what they want that is the very meaning of freedom of expression. I would however draw the line with regard to legal situations such as trials where a jury's ability to see a persons reactions and facial expressions could well be important (it's easy to lie knowing nobody can see your face) or security situations where the ability to identify a person as who they claim to be is required.
David Hamilton Doesn't have to be women. - anyone can hide behind a hijab. Anyway, forget banks. Wearing a hijab not required in Islam - it's a fashion choice and a sick one at that. If I were to turn up at work as a doctor in a full Micky Mouse outfit there are solely practical reasons why it's a fucking stupid idea.
David Hamilton I think we're in agreement. I said this earlier; In the UK it's worn in order to provoke, quite often by teens who want the attention. It's that simple. Look at the "Jihadi-cool "thing as Rushdie calls it. It's attention seeking - getting on the x-factor is difficult - but your 15 mins of fame can be accessed instantly as a Muslim if you are "offended" or "victimised" or you buy a plane ticket to Syria. Wear what the hell you want, I'm all for freedom of expression. But, in life it's practical, social, respectful and reasonable to want see the face of people you interactive with. We need to come down on this bullshit for the sake of humanity
Felixo C. It's probably more accurate to say there's no place for the West in Islam. We have been so accommodating - there *has* been a place for Islam in the UK - but our efforts are actually beginning to look perversely masochistic when you consider how we have been rejected. The second generation have no allegiance to their host countries - and if their parents did a better job we wouldn't be going through this nightmare. Unfortunately I see Enoch Powell's prediction coming true, I'm absolutely convince of it.
+DJFear Ross Coz covering the face is not all that is part of it. Not mixing with men, talking with them, flirting etc. is all part of it too. Which is why staying at home is part of it too.
The problem is that the state must allow freedom towards people. Many women in the sex trade are abused, they often claim that it is their choice for a vocation, should the state intervene on this? The burka is similar, clearly it is a form of abuse, women can claim it is their choice, should the state intervene? The problem is patriarchy. The state should ensure that every avenue for protection and education is afforded to women who want to escape oppression, that's all.
***** i would not stop someone whereing either a helmet or balacalva, stoping people waering what they want is taking away self expresssion. Along those lines, ud then be stopping freadom of speach.
Banning clothing is ridiculous. Target the dynamics that makes clothing an issue. Saying that some fabric or cut is in itself the problem makes one look like a clown. If shoes are bad, then why not mittens? Nazi mittens, perhaps? I fully realize that the symbolic value of certains items grows intense enought at times that people will even die for them, but that problem is not caused by the items or symbols and they are not removed by making them invisible. Rather there is a risk that the real issues become clouded and slide under the cultural abyssal line, when you focus on the sign itself.
![Kumamoto Masters Japan 2024 | Gregoria Mariska Tunjung (INA) [5] vs. Akane Yamaguchi (JPN) [2] | F](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EIjZybhsWqA/mqdefault.jpg)
I love that she told him to shut it! Some Muslim men need to lighten up. Its the 21st C come join the rest of us and stop making your female relatives miserable.
Thats exactly right.....that muslim dude was trying to cut her off becaue she was woman
@@nitz_7 nope thats tariq for you, thats his typical conduct in interviews regardless of gender
You don’t get it. These people , even the most liberal Muslims are totally against the western world. We should ban the very religion of Islam in the western world. It’s not a matter of the century, it’s about this religion. It’s impossible to mix western world and Muslims. They should stay in their country, and we westerns stay here. Respect our differences and boundaries.
Haha, Sam Harris never loses his cool.
unfortunately SH manipulates data
ruclips.net/video/xqwb54cWAPA/видео.html
"The only this wrong with fundamentalist islam are the fundamentals of islam."
-sam harris
+CrazyForCooCooPuffs
Another thing that Sam has said that I 100% agree with -- "The difference between the fundamentalists and the moderates is that the fundamentalists have actually read the books"
+CrazyForCooCooPuffs i love that quote
Minkki82 suppose to be thing
its a quote dipshit, you dont edit quotes
CrazyForCooCooPuffs you do when the quote isn't correct
"It has nothing to do with the women" Tariq Ramadan. No, Tariq, it has everything to do with the women. You see it is political and an insult to Islam because women are invisible to you and you don't see that dimiishing half the population of a society diminishes all of the society. Women are NOT your political football.
Great comment.
Tariq Ramadan once said: "Uhhhm...ahh...oh la la....(hehehe)...mais non, ca vas bien, ...uhm....(urgh!)....Haha..uh...oke, alorrrs....je suis...uhm... pas le Charlie...(hehehe)...winkwink...oink oink...mais....c'est pas l'islam" - since then I really do admire him for his islamic eloquence and great insight - a hero of 'Free Speech' of mine.
haha
Thats not why it should be banned. I don't think any item of clothing should be banned because it is considered offensive to people. The problem here is that it is like wearing a balaclava, and is a threat to public health, people have already used them to get away with robberies.
Boogie Knight a balaclava is a a face mask generally used by robbers to hide their identities. If people were walking into shops with any form of mask be it jabba the hut or chewbacca or a burqa it should not be allowed. I'm not Muslim so I have no idea what your'e talking about.
Thank God for Sam Harris. We need more like him.
+esquire eventrade There _are_ more like him. I wish they would form a government.
+esquire eventrade lol. The irony.
+Ian Martin xD
What an irrelevant question... from a Muslim of course!!
Clubbers do their thing implicitly.
...and it is so for pornography...
...and both are subject to very strict regulations by the state!
You cannot do porn in a bus stop! It is prohibited by the state!
...but want to wear your Islamic bigotry called the niqab, in a bus stop!?
How people will tell there is a women under the veil then?
Maybe there is a thief under it?
...or a criminal at large?
...or maybe a gun is hidden under it?
...or maybe it is a suicide bomber inside there?
HOW WILL WE TELL!?
Enough with your religion... enough with your bigotry...
I live in a damn Muslim country... and I'm sick of your disgustingly insincere apologies!
Shut the fuck up already...
...and start using your brains NOW to understand the situation the world is in with your 14 century old nonsensical belief system!
...you only piss people off with your irrelevant apologies! Stop it! NOW!
p
The French should be celebrated for having the courage to stand up to oppression, intimidation and inequality born of the stone age. This is a small victory for common sense in an increasingly religiously divided world.
I agree with all you said except this:
"increasingly religiously divided world"
Have you ever read history? you are saying the world is more divided now on religioun then in the 1600's?
@Melissa Streeter Precisely!
@Melissa Streeter wtf? Are u islamophobic or racist sorta person?😂
U country literally feeds on muslim majority countries( in africa, asia and Middle East). Just go search for a min. U'll find a lot about ur place haha
@Melissa Streeter Who is forcing you to wear it?
Good on the French,This should be done here. These hideous outfits are highly offensive to many people in the same way as i would cause offence if i walked down the street wearing a balaclava with eye holes. Again,i salute the French.
Tariq still has Nightmares about Christopher Hitchens
Tariq says "Let the women decide whatever they want to wear."
How about bikinis, Tariq?
bikinis are bathing suits and not comparible
He Will probably rape her
Now that's a good point
@Chipmunk not in a sharia law sistem
Religions always ask for more individual freedom when that helps religions to progress in the society.
But you will never see religions fighting for individual right to quite religions, to abort, to have men-women equality...
You heard the girl at the bus stop. She said she didnt really know. That she had been taught since she was young. That she shouldnt be too western And then contradicts herself by saying it was her choice? She managed to collapse her own reasoning within herself in a few short seconds in her naivity and entrappment.
Matt Bolt give her some credit, she was stopped and asked for an interview with no time to prepare.
SuperSupermanX1999 you dont need time to prepare your own views. I know who I am and what I stand for and so does every other person who hasnt been bombarded with what they shoud think instead of taking time to think for themselves.
What I find so unbelievably shocking to the point where it's absolutely hilarious is how France has DIRECTLY made a law attacking the Muslim community/population of their nation by banning a certain aspect of SPECIFICALLY the religion of Islam, and yet, the law is still in place. What a big elephant in the room, don't you think? The country of France - an extremely powerful, well-known, staple-to-the-mind nation - (as well as majorly non-muslim) trying to find reasons to ban the burqa and attacking Islam? And then coming up with well-thought-out explanations and quote-on-quote 'reasons,' (more like EXCUSES) to jUSTIFY the blunt attack of Muslims in their nation? It's pretty clear that this is all fake. The country does not care about 'protecting' women's rights at all. If the country really cared about helping women's rights, why not ban weight-loss drugs? Why not ban dangerous types of plastic surgeries? Why not ban facetune? Why not ban the PLETHORA of OTHER things affecting women's health?? This is why it is SO FUNNY TO ME. Why do I have to EXPLAIN all this? OPEN YOUR EYES and take a look at what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING HERE. Muslims are being TARGETED, EXPLICITLY TARGETED. The things that the law-supporters are trying to say is such a load of bullshit. BULL. A TEN YEAR OLD could come up with the arguments that they are trying to come up with!!!! And it's just SO hilarious to see people being manipulated and FALLING FOR all this media crap. It's so funny that people are actually listening to the arguments that people like Mona and whoever-his-name-is "author guy," have to say. Don't you all see? Don't you all REALIZE that you are being manipulated by the media and being tricked into falling for the train of thought that they WANT you to fall into? I thought society was smarter than that... I thought people had bigger brains and more common sense. Can all of you WAKE up and realize what France is doing??? France - an EXTREMELY powerful country, mind you) is legitimately attacking muslims and yet the law IS STILL IN PLACE. This is why I am just sitting here, laughing my ASS off at how SUCCESSFUL France is right now... How SUCCESSFULLY they were able to get away with passing a law like this DELIBERATELY AND EXPLICITLY attacking Muslims.
@@xxmeowxx9274 the law doesn't ban the burqa in homes or in the church, does it? It only bans it in public spaces. So u can get naked in your house but not on the street in front of your house. Any space you share with the public you cannot wear a burqa or get naked. The law is clearly not about women's health. How would you feel if I came to your house with my face covered in a ski mask? How would you feel if you answered your door and found a ninja in front of you? The prevalence of evil has made it hard for good to be noticed.
If a woman wearing a burqa hangs around a bank and the bank gets robbed after 10 minutes by women in masks, don't you think people will be wondering if she was part of the act? In a high tension western country like France, that law is in place for security reasons. If Christian and Jewish women start to dress the way ancient Persian women dressed by covering their faces in public spaces everywhere, that law will be passed wherever they are as well.
The magician woman was so cute
Appsessed I was thinking the same thing. Plus she's a badass for speaking out.
agreed, sooo cute!!
She's much more than cute. She's smart, driven, independent... and HOT!!
Shame ... she's so sweet..leave her alone! She clearly Hates that Shit...
What do you mean by 'magician'? This seem to be a constant fear in the islamic community.
Sam smirking while they were arguing in the end was priceless
He's probably thinking "damn, look at all those emotions, I wish I had those"
I was looking out for his reaction and the end and it didn't disappoint. Hilarious.
"That's quite enough! All three of you." *sam harris casually sips his water knowing it doesn't apply to him.
Not often we Sam even break a smile. 😂😂
The woman from Bangladesh who does the magic tricks. What a beautiful person. She is also incredibly brave considering her environment. I fear that the only way she can feel at ease is to move to a place where there are few if any Muslims. Far too much of the Muslim culture is still caught in its backwards 7th century mentality. Although I sense that that may be insulting given that I'm sure not everyone at that time had such primitive beliefs.
My thoughts exactly. She radiated such positivity. Hope she's living a good life these days.
Hear, hear!
This woman is a goddess. Everything she is saying against Tariq is completely accurate and I am so glad she said it on television; using him as an example for the actual oppression of women
Bennett Ferguson your stupidity offends me.
What I find so unbelievably shocking to the point where it's absolutely hilarious is how France has DIRECTLY made a law attacking the Muslim community/population of their nation by banning a certain aspect of SPECIFICALLY the religion of Islam, and yet, the law is still in place. What a big elephant in the room, don't you think? The country of France - an extremely powerful, well-known, staple-to-the-mind nation - (as well as majorly non-muslim) trying to find reasons to ban the burqa and attacking Islam? And then coming up with well-thought-out explanations and quote-on-quote 'reasons,' (more like EXCUSES) to jUSTIFY the blunt attack of Muslims in their nation? It's pretty clear that this is all fake. The country does not care about 'protecting' women's rights at all. If the country really cared about helping women's rights, why not ban weight-loss drugs? Why not ban dangerous types of plastic surgeries? Why not ban facetune? Why not ban the PLETHORA of OTHER things affecting women's health?? This is why it is SO FUNNY TO ME. Why do I have to EXPLAIN all this? OPEN YOUR EYES and take a look at what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING HERE. Muslims are being TARGETED, EXPLICITLY TARGETED. The things that the law-supporters are trying to say is such a load of bullshit. BULL. A TEN YEAR OLD could come up with the arguments that they are trying to come up with!!!! And it's just SO hilarious to see people being manipulated and FALLING FOR all this media crap. It's so funny that people are actually listening to the arguments that people like Mona and whoever-his-name-is "author guy," have to say. Don't you all see? Don't you all REALIZE that you are being manipulated by the media and being tricked into falling for the train of thought that they WANT you to fall into? I thought society was smarter than that... I thought people had bigger brains and more common sense. Can all of you WAKE up and realize what France is doing??? France - an EXTREMELY powerful country, mind you) is legitimately attacking muslims and yet the law IS STILL IN PLACE. This is why I am just sitting here, laughing my ASS off at how SUCCESSFUL France is right now... How SUCCESSFULLY they were able to get away with passing a law like this DELIBERATELY AND EXPLICITLY attacking Muslims.
@@xxmeowxx9274 mate, have you ever read the laws in muslim countrys? go write comments to them lmfao. double standarts you have.
@@xxmeowxx9274 hypocrite
@@1984magu why people like u always says misinformation about islam? ive never seen any muslims against any religion but yet we’re the one who play the bad guy here
its all about muslim men not having self control
MrChrisHermes Did I fuckin say that? You must have problems reading or something mate.
MrChrisHermes Thanks for reassuring me you can't read and also for showing your limited understanding of Islam.
***** It's a well known fact, that's how it's been for centuries, believe it or not even in the west women dressed modestly once
***** Not necessarily covering face but rest of body was kept covered and linked to decency and piety i.e. nuns
Umar Khan and outmoded regardless
Love how sam harris smirks like "told u these people are crazy".
haha:P
Spot on , that brilliant smirk at the end as the camera turns towards Paxman is priceless. That Ramadan guy is sinister.
Nick Harris i'm so democratic that I support freedom for self oppression with the niqab and freedom for the self-destruction of society in the democratic election process of allowing islamists into parliaments.
Can you point to the second he does this? I looked for it and could not find it.
Yes and he was dead on
If they don't cover up, some risk being killed by a brother, uncle or father for offending their "honor".
That's a statement right?
Yep.
That's a relief, just thought I'd check before I fragged you. :)
Proofs that Muslim women can show their faces, hands, feet and even hair!
islamhaters.skyrock.com/3109058137-Women-in-Islam.html
TheFlyingHorse1 I work with muslim women, some cover their hair, some do not. None of them veil, but that doesn't bother me either. I still don't get what all the fuss is about as long as it's their choice.
What is the point of Tariq Ramadan? Every time I see him debate he comes across as staggeringly ignorant and barely able to put together a coherent argument.
Of course it is tricky to mount a cogent argument when your foundation is a talking angel from year 600.
maybe because his first language is not english.
Oh he knows enough English to fool the ones who yearn to be fooled!
kaddiharrow Are you on crack ?
How dare an interviewer cut off Sam so blatantly at 13:25 like he has no interest.
Should be banned absolutely.
"We wear it so we don't appear too westernised"? Maybe you should move to an islamic country then?
Fuck you.
Joshua Brooks Thats a very sweet offer, thank you. But i'm not gay. Good luck finding someone though. Perhaps you can search the homosexual dating sites.
It is up to the individual to wear whatever the fuck they want.
You are a fucking moron.
allthewine It has nothing to do with what they wear - it's what they say. But you clearly don't have the intelligence/education to understand the issue here. Never mind. Merry Christmas.
TheLKline
Right I don't have the intelligence as you say despite having two degrees and a masters.
You clearly have a problem with a Muslim woman wearing a Burqa.
And who gives a fuck if they might want to hold onto a bit of their culture?
The answer is obvious. The hijab or any other clothing choice is acceptable.
Two exceptions:
1) No public nudity.
2) No face covering.
Covering the face for any reason poses important security issues. It has nothing to do with religion.
+Cool hat can i wear a mask?
+Eli Hassen (Brah) I guess it depends what kind of mask, where and when. imo you cannot wear a mask while standing in front of a bank teller or a store cashier.
Another question: Can I wear a scarf across my face in a winter snowstorm. The answer to that has to be yes. Then how do we address the security issues of anonymity? I don't know, but hiding one's identity remains a problem.
+Cool hat yeah man, I'm with ya.
+Cool hat Security is also an issue, but that's not a part of the debate they touched on here, and it's also resolved more easily. In practice, I don't believe there are that many incidents where women have refused to remove a face-veil when required for security reasons eg. airports, identification photos, etc. (Correct me if I'm wrong) This is more about the debate between religious freedom (to wear a veil) vs. the perceived oppression of a minority within their own religion.
They always cry human rights violation... when you think you have a higher calling you always think they're right. nuff said
That muslim guy at the last part is disturbingly one sided. When it was his time to talk nobody interrupted him. When the lady's turn to talk he just keeps on interrupting.
Proxy Decoy She doesn’t have a say remember ! Second class citizen !!
I really like the lady on this show, shes made me real happy :)
We need way more women like her on television
it is not about dressing.
is about going around with your face covered up.
This is Stupid and very unsafe for a civilised country in 2015.
Experienced as the old bulldog is, did he really think he could rattle Sam Harris??
+Jammsbro Sam Harris has really good mental strength
billyblackburn87 He has learned meditation and fasted for days in the Himalayas to be able to sit there and not slap that mofucker in the face.
@@Chronically_ChiII did he really?
@@Legendaryium idk if he fasted, but did spend 10 years in with Buddhist monks to learn meditation before taking his phd
@@Chronically_ChiII damn, really interesting.
that makes so much sense when you see him talk.
I wish I had half of Sam Harris's cool and calm nature, and he keeps it even when being yelled at. :)
Maybe you should try meditating. It seem to have worked for Harris.
16:20 "Stop talking. I'm talking".
Brilliant. Here is a guy who isn't accustomed to being told what to do by a woman, or listening to what a woman has to say.
I shouted out loud at the bastard lol
Tl;dw: Sam Harris (to himself) "Why did I agree to come on this show?"
If you have been raised since birth to hold a specific view, the words 'its my choice' kinds of loose their meaning.
"so the only right way of being a muslim is an invisible muslim?"
Exactly, Tariq, that is what we want - because religion should be a private issue in any secular state.
Yes. Freedom FROM religion, not just freedom for religion.
@@reinforcedpenisstem 👍👍👍👍🦋🌹💖💖🙏👍
@@reinforcedpenisstem Hear, hear!
yep 7 years old children chooses niqab EVERY day...or fucking do they!?
+Henke Ria 7 year old children don't even need to wear a scarf, forget niqab.
That woman in the hijab completely contradicted herself saying "We've been taught that since we were young to cover up" and then saying "we do it out of choice". AKA you have been forced since a young age to wear the scarf from the Muslim community.
+George Jones Yes, I think this is a very good example of the psychology of repression.
that Muslim woman who doesn't wear the hijab seems like an amazing lady. her magic tricks are awesome and its hilarious that some ignorant people see them and cry out: "witch!!"
👍💖🌹👍
Hang on, did you go to Alperton community school?
I have many muslim friends who said it was their choice to wear it in the beginning. However, all of them told me in confidence that they were told by their husband's family that they want the newlywed wife to wear a burka/niqab. I'm sure there must be some people who do it by choice but I don't think it's the case most of the time.
Sorry, but this moderator is a nitwit.
Mona Eltahawy was speaking excitedly but everything she was saying was dead on.
feel so sorry for the poor magician lady. Criticising Islam is a hate crime but coming into a shop to berate a woman's dress is acceptable.
After what happened in Sri Lanka full face coverings should be banned in the UK.
Covering the hair should not be a problem as we have seen with nuns and seihks.
How dare they ban the burqua! If these ladies wish to be invisible, then we should courteously respect their wishes by totally ignoring them and treating them as invisible or non-existent!! For example, if one comes to the head of a queue, simply look past her and say, "Next!!" Problem solved!!!
😉😅😅
The problem with debates on television is that they end it when it starts to become interesting. This Tariq Ramadan is wrong on every point and resorts to ad hominem attacks that can not be verified. It's amazing how Mona Eltahawy destroy Tariq's points and this doe-eyed host fails to handle the situation, interrupts and makes annoyingly intonated biased statements.
Yes, he didn't do his job as a host there, and has always been a snooty git.
Chris Steer
Hear! Hear!
Mona isn't exactly an intelligent person, she didn't make any valid points and herself resorted to an ad hominem in the very first sentence she uttered. Tariq in fact did make a few valid points regard the role of the state in its ability to dictate how we should dress, if were talking about the banning of the muslim veil then it should be based on it posing a security risk and not on the purported 'liberation of women.'
Vassago X
I think the most significant thing is, as sometimes pointed out, that the only freedom such a strain of Islam wants for women is the "freedom" of women to cover themselves up.
Harris' smile at the end is priceless :D
Sams face at the end is priceless. You know he is thinking "You go girl".
it hides the cuts and bruises,and other ugliness caused by inbreeding
"Religion Poisons Everything"
Christopher Hitchens (1949-2011)
Yes, they should be banned. ANYTHING that covers the face should be banned. We need to be able to see who a person is to deal with them.
If you want to wear a burka, go to a Muslim country and stay there.
now if you train a dog from infancy to dance, it will dance. same with veil of girls, they are psychologically enslaved from childhood with niqab and burqa.
+Harish Kiran The girl at 4:29 was revealing, saying perhaps a bit too honestly that they've been taught since they were young to cover up to not appear too Westernized before finally falling back on the canard that she's probably been taught to say that it's just her choice.
The Muslim man says that "who is the state to say what a woman can and can't wear" in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan, Pakistan and Afghanistan specific dress codes are required for women. And failing to veil your face can result in prosecution and violence in some of these countries.
I dare say he doesn't support that either.
@ Scat Man , so we in the west should look to saudi arabia for guidance? Also, there are muslim countries that allow western and muslim clothing like Lebanon for example.
I love when the beautiful woman says that she was indoctrinated when she was young to cover up, and in the same breath says that she chooses to cover up. Lol
People don't realize that the threat of being disowned by your family and community is still considered coercion.
That woman wears without burqa is brave. I support her 100% .
Sam was so calm in the face of Paxmans fire.
(calm voice) "I think theres something sinister about this religious expression"
(raised voice" "Oh you find it offensive?, you find it frighting"
(calm voice) "no, no, its nothing to do with being frightened, it has to do with the fact that some percentage of women are being forced..."
(raised voice) "forced, their all being forced"
(same calm voice) "no, some are being forced and...".
Such a boss. Unfortunately most people can't keep calm like that.
4:43
"You're meant to cover up so you're not seen as true Westerners..."
A very revealing sentence, no pun intended.
why are we allowing people into our countries if they don't respect us , they are insane .
She said it was "her choice" to wear that hijab. However, she had been indoctrinated from birth to wear it. In reality, she could not come up with her own reason for wearing it.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free"- Johann Wolfgang von.
Beware those who have found the truth.
Sorry for being late but for which side does it apply.
If Muslims are so upset about banning women from wearing burkas in public, why don’t Muslim men wear them? If the burka is so great and freeing to women, surely men should be allowed to partake in such a terrific practice 🙄
Nothing demonstrates contempt and lack of respect for women's opinions more than interrupting and refusing to let them speak.
The look on Sam's face in the end is priceless.
London Bridge is falling down ... falling down ...falling down ..
This Tariq fellow does not give a good impression of himself
Why do you say that?
amwahid25 Oh I don't know, maybe the fact that he reiterates his dated views by continually interrupting the others being interviewed? I'd have respected him had he been able to have a reasoned debate.
Afghanistan, Iran... no oppression? Really?
Most "choose" it because they don't want to be disowned or worse......the others only choose it because they were forced when they were younger so it gives them comfort.............ofc if you are covered your entire life, you are more likely to feel exposed when you are no longer covered..........hell, there are some people who refuse to leave there homes because they are afraid of other people.........there are all kinds of folks.
Paxman makes me laugh with his pompous authority. The only person i've ever seen him completely capitulate to is Chrisopher Hitchens; Paxman was like a little boy in his presents. The Islamic bloke on this video is a hypocritcal moronic nob who openly shows the oppressive side of Islam towards women during his little primitive outburst. The woman gave him a diva bitch-slap. And is it just me, or is Harris turning into Kermit the frog? His voice and face is concerningly similar.
Banning specific items of clothing is not worthy of a democracy. Saying that you can't wear a niqab is almost as stupid as saying you must wear a head scarf.
If we have laws about *not* wearing clothing, we can have laws about *wearing* clothing. Especially stupid fashion from the 7th century.
So if a religion/culture said wives must wear handcuffs, our democracy should support it? Why should women have to cover up their faces due to medieval religious intolerance?
It's all down to indoctrination, so the sooner its broken the better. What sort of a religion/culture treats half its followers as lesser people? An ignorant intolerant one!
Neil Fawcett
Not banning is not the same as supporting. Being an alcoholic is legal in all civilized countries, that does not mean that governments support alcoholism.
***** Drinking too much alcohol is indeed not illegal, as it is (currently) deemed to be ones own choice to do so. However, the niqab is a form of sexist indoctrination. Do all members of the religion/culture wear it? No... Why is that? It all harks back to Islam's core sexist attitute towards women, which should not be permitted in any democracy. It's outdated!
Neil Fawcett
You want to outlaw wearing masks that protect from pollution too? Otherwise they could wear those instead of a niqab, am I right?
I totally agree with you on most of things you write, but making specific items of clothing illegal is stupid. It would be like banning leather-wests because we don't like motorcycle-gangs.
I love the calmness of Sam. In every confrontation.
Jasmin's personal style is fantastic, she looks fabulous! Why trade that for a black bed sheet? All power to her!
Don't waste time debating on this topic.Instant action is what is required ie INSTANT ban !!
It looks like Sam is so amused by the arguing at the end. I swear I saw him smirk while I was laughing.
So let me get this straight: Some people have gone to this lovely woman's place of work and directly harassed her for just behaving as she wants to and some others have COMPLAINED TO HER EMPLOYER that she shouldn't be acting like this. I don't want to hear any debate, listen to any other arguments and hear any whining from religious apologists. That is wrong, no it's EVIL. We must redouble our efforts to protect this Asian woman for her bravery, and encourage others to do the same and fight with all our energy against this religious and cultural depravity.
The end bit made me laugh. That woman was about as neocon as she was a bronze medal winning olympic unicycling tightropeing unicyclist.
It’s hypocritical for traditionalist Muslims to say that the secular state has no right to tell people what to wear when they are perfectly happy for a theocratic state to do so. There’s no point arguing with religious fundamentalists whether Muslim or anything else: they aren’t interested in anyone’s views but their own. Theocracies and liberal democracies cannot peaceably coexist. Those who choose to live in officially secular societies had better make up their minds which is ultimately more important to them: the traditions of their faith or the trappings of modernism. You can’t have it all - at least, not all at the same time...any ideas to the contrary are a recipe for societal discord which can lead to disaster. It is possible for theocracies to thrive in isolation; but the imposition of theocratic modes of behaviour has no place in a pluralist and open society. Modernism offends traditionalist religious sensibilities. This inevitably leads to resentment and conflict.
4:41 - Contradiction in 3, 2, 1...
Yes it's amazing. *I was taught it from a young age* and then *but it's just a personal choice.* Someone is seriously deluded about what personal choice means. I think she means she personally chooses not to get the belt from her dad for not wearing it, by wearing it. Very sad thing.
An Actual Prostitute
Ouch. Yes, exactly :(
An Actual Prostitute yep and all of them freely choose to wear a black burqa 7 days a week how come no woman has ever woken up and said hmmm I think today I'll freely choose to wear my yellow burqa I guess it's just a coincidence that millions of women are freely choosing to wear the exact same thing lol
@godlessmath You should have yourself checked for a brain tumor
That look from Sam Harris right at the end is pure gold
Sam's face at the very end is priceless
I would love to see Ramadan talk about religious freedom in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan, Yemen, Pakistan, etc. No? That makes sense.
The fact that a serious conversation about this topic has to happen in the UK should cause serious concern in the present and for the demographic future.
I wonder if Paxman would feel the same if he saw in action or the aftermath of Taliban attack on a Pakistani village blowing up little girls at school because they what to learn...
***** aye I guess...
Paxman's job is to stir things up and get the guests arguing and at each others throats. Newsnight is primarily an entertainment show.
It was pretty telling how the islamic man in the video was completely respectfull of taking turns speaking except when it came to the muslim woman speaking out. He really did appear to want to silence her. I don't know if agree with banning the burka, but to say that women want to wear it is probably a bit of a strech. how much indoctrination and oppression was required how much domination to get women to the point of saying this is what i want to wear. I doubt any woman would choose to be a faceless shadow in a crowd without some pretty heavy duty male dominated pressure.
With respect I think everyone in the video was responding in an emotionally charged way, probably because the burqa debate is itself so emotionally charged. Tariq and Mona certainly didn't see eye to eye as you point out, but I genuinely feel Tariq just let his guard down because of personal attacks against him not because of a disrespectful attitude towards women. There is at least one other video where Mona is talking with another Muslim woman who is wearing niqab about burqa bans, who also interrupts Mona partly I think because Mona was speaking most of the time and Mona makes generalisations that others may feel are unfair and misleading. In particular, Mona's belief that no one should be allowed to wear a burqa because it can never be a free choice contradicts Tariq's view for example that even though he doesn't advocate the burqa he believes women do have the ability and should have the choice to cover as little or as much as they want (even if he doesn't personally agree with their logic), and that the government should not be able to tell people what to wear.
You might notice Mona was the first to personally attack Tariq by questioning his attitude towards an unrelated topic of the location of an Islamic centre I believe. Mona also framed herself as a feminist when she said she disagrees with everything Tariq said which implicitly makes Tariq out as a misogynist as she was was asked to articulate herself in direct response to Tariq's views. He also called her a neoconservative and you can see why Mona would not like being labelled as such but in context I don't think he was was displaying a particular disrespect for women - he merely seemed concern that Mona was presenting her personal views about banning the burqa and niqab as the view of all Muslim women which it clearly isn't.
I think many many people who wouldn't make a certain decision such as wear a burqa struggle with the plausibility of someone else ever making that decision for themselves. But I think that we can't just ignore women systematically who assert that they make such a choice. As a Muslim woman who covers despite the views of important males in my life, I know there are people who will never accept that I can make such a decision for myself but I am equally sure that I can and have. To deny women their right to dress as they choose, and in a way that accords with their beliefs, because of assumptions about their ability to reason unimpaired is itself a form of oppression I feel because it assumes certain women have not been raised in a way that they are rational enough to think for themselves.
I personally think that when women (and men) take up plastic surgery for cosmetic reasons for example, you could argue it's not truly their choice as their insecurities might reflect superficial notions of beauty in wider society but to a certain extent we accept that people who have been exposed to the views of parents, advertising, media, friends, consumerism etc are not just a mirror of the outside world - we are ultimately more or less free to do as we please and this is no different.
Apologies for the essay :P
no problem you make some good point s. You picked the right analogie for me with the plastic surgery thing because i am personally pretty disgusted by the idea except in some fairly extreme instances.
I still think it is very difficult to float the idea that any woman would choose the burka completely freely. I think if you remove every trace of male superiority and mysogyny the entire reason for the burka vanishes and while women would be free to choose it none would, I realize this is a highly hypothetical situation with no basis in reality, because there is a strong male dominance involved i think it is impossible to ever say now that it is a totally free choice. You make some good points. The fact that the muslim world even has a tradition of burka wearing i think tells a pretty damning story about it unfortunately. I disagree that this is no differant that just media exposure and mirroring the outside world there is a world of differance. These woman become faceless. I think it is patently dehumanizing, if it weren't where are the mens burkas? Unless you can show me a man who chooses to wear a burka out of a reason other than protest I have to say it is so crystal clear that it is a form of dominance over women.
pooyan17
Also I want to add that I respect you as a woman and respect you enough to never concede that the Burka is anything but a tool that has been used to subdue and control you and your fellow women. The fact that you may chose to wear one in no way negates this. Is it actually a burka that you wear or is it just the niqab? Because i feel their is a world of difference as your face and individuality is what opponents to the burka want to protect. Indeed it is entirely motivated by respect for you as a person. And as a woman.
My apologies for the delay in responding, but thank you for your prompt, respectful, insightful and thoughtful response.
I can see why you might feel that full face veils are demeaning and sexist, especially given widespread media stereotypes and discourse about Muslims. But I have yet to see empirical evidence for these views that can justify an outright ban. My own experience with unveiled, veiled and full faced veiled women has marked no discernible difference in how much men impact their lives. They merely choose to exercise their privacy in public spaces and express their adherences religious convictions or lack thereof in different ways. I have been fortunate to see such women in both public and private spaces to see that they are just as vibrant, visible and aware as women who dress differently. As communication platforms increasingly diversify, as blind people are perfectly capable of communicating in a nuanced way, as pseudo-scientific ways to assess truth, happiness, etc through facial expressions are increasingly debunked and practices such as racial profiling are increasing challenged, the ideological view that veiled women are becoming invisible or lost is hard to justify in reality.
I have been looking for evidence about the burqa or niqab being necessarily a patriarchal practice but studies consistently show women in France wear the burqa of niqab for themselves first and foremost. Sometimes this is with the support of male others but it is also often completely against the views of males in their lives. However, there is evidence that women who choose to wear a full face veil have been exposed to greater stigma and discrimination after the bans have occurred, and by forcing women to choose between public participation and wearing something which they feel is consistent with their most personal and religious beliefs, participation of such women in the public sphere has been reduced unnecessarily.
Around a third of women who wear full face veils are converts, and many others who wear it were born in France. It’d be hard to argue they aren’t fully aware of alternative codes of public dress. Albeit as you indicate, the human world is not a vacuum - there are many complex interactions taking place that we cannot easily control for or isolate. But that doesn’t give us free reign to interfere with the personal peaceful decisions of women or men on the basis of our contrary views. More importantly, I don't think that the mere fact that people feel uncomfortable with full face veils, or speculate that it is the result of male influence or must be a symbol of misogyny is enough to outweigh the assertions and personal beliefs of women who wear it without rigorous contrary evidence. Otherwise this is tyranny by the majority, exactly what democracy is designed to protect against.
I respect that you feel that unless men and women are free to make identical decisions, this is discrimination, but for me this is not a problem as long as there are comparable opportunities and responsibilities. For example, it would be absurd in my view to have maternity leave for men since they cannot give birth, but having comparable opportunities such as paternity leave to look after young kids is logical and comparable. Similarly in Islam, modesty is something which applies equally to both men and women, but it gives rise to different obligations and opportunities, largely due to physiological differences (just as you might find it rare for men to wear a bikini :P). Another example of difference is the Islamic requirement for a groom to give a mahr/dowry to the bride, without any reciprocal obligation on the part of the bride. This takes into account financial vulnerability and seeks to protect women in case of divorce. Given the continuing disparities between pay for men and women for example in the world today, it seems pretty fair to impose this one sided obligation without it being a form of negative discrimination.
We both agree that women should never be forced to do something as against their own interest. But the government banning the right of women to dress in a full face veil in public if they so choose is just as patriarchal and misogynistic as forcing women to wear it. There are reasonable limits to wearing such garments that women may agree to, such as security checks at airports, etc but that is very different to an outright ban based on feelings of personal disagreement. There are too many examples of so called noble intentions or patriarchal practices that have been justified on the grounds of helping people who are seen as less capable of helping themselves, such as forced sterilisation of people with a disability, colonialism, or in Australia for example the historical removal of Indigenous children from their parents which has been referred to as the Stolen Generations.
I wear a hijab without a face veil, but that is my personal choice and I think every woman has the right to wear as little or as much as she feels comfortable wearing in accordance with her own convictions and moral code. Plus I've seen and read that women encounter similar kinds of counterarguments to the use of all kinds of veils under the guise (however well meaning) of looking out for the person who wishes to make this decision.
I simply advocate that women are perfectly capable of making decisions for themselves unless rigorously proven otherwise (not mere personal attitude or suspicions, even if held by a majority), and without such contrary rigorous evidence there is no way that these bans can be justified. If governments are concerned about the wellbeing of their citizens I commend this in every way, but punishing people in order to protect them is very rarely the answer. If there is a genuine concern for the wellbeing of women, then there needs to be an open, respectful dialogue with that person to assess whether this is legitimately founded and if so to ascertain what supports they benefit from without vilifying them. It is more important that policies which seek to benefit minority groups are not counterproductive and build trust, regardless of whether they are counterintuitive to the sentiment of the majority (especially if that sentiment is not backed by sufficient evidence).
I am willing to listen to why you think women cover themselves. I won't go so far as to agree they must be covered.
As far as molesting women and Girls, I haven't looked at studies about that, I would suspect the type of men include some sociopaths or psychopaths, also probably some that are victims of abuse themselves. I would also assume some are Socially isolated and sexually repressed. I would not be surprised if many were made to feel shamefull as children. If they live in a country where that kind of behavior is illegal, then it is safe to say they are all criminals.
I get the sense that you are suggesting that women and girls must be ''covered'' in order to protect them from abuse. If that is the case why not create harsher laws for punishing the abuse of women instead of laws requiring further hiding of women? The Laws that are past in many Islamic nations (See Egypt) seem focused on punishing women for the ill behavior of men.
Look I am open to discussing the issue, I am all for freedom generally, but I think there is a reason we should be able to see a persons face in society. To me it is part of Human nature as Social creatures to be able to look someone in the face and evaluate them. Are they happy? Do they need a kind word this morning? Are they about to rob me?
I just don't think this would be a free choice without first a heavy dose of religious indoctrination. I don't believe that the Qu'ran is the true word of the creator, and if i understand corectly the Burka isn't even part of the Qu'ran or Hadith (sp?) So in what sense Must a woman be covered?
I really feel sorry for women who live in Muslim theocracies. They are severely marginalized. I wish they all had the choice to wear what they wanted, but they don't Even in free nations I think many women face threats from their husbands and Muslim communities. I know that a large number of British Muslims actually think Death should be the Punishment for Apostacy. In what sense is anyone free when their community believe they should Die for choosing to leave?
In a truly free state, one should be able to sell oneself into slavery.
I think we should ban clothing. We are taught to be ashamed of our bodies from a young age( christian values and whatnot).
Being nude is true liberation, you people just wear clothes because you are oppressed.
Soo, let me get this straight. When women tell you that they're not forced to wear a hijab/nicab we should not take them at their word. However, we should always take terrorists at their word as to what motives them.
It just goes to show that Harris' arguments are not even internally consistent.
Sam Harris is above this whole show....the host is a tit,the woman is correct but works mostly from emotion and Tariq is a time and again proven antagonist and Muslim defender/apologist.Sam makes these people look like children arguing on a playground
Absolutely the right law. If there was a religion that said women must be walked in public with a collar and a leash, the practice should be banned--even if the women said that they choose to wear the collar because of their beliefs. It's also important to note that this apparently isn't in the koran
lol Sam's expression said it all 17:00
Props to that woman for being so coherent.
It shouldn't be about religion, expression, clothing or telling people what to wear. It should be about covering face. You don't ban burka, you don't ban niqab....you ban covering faces ! Not only in banks. You should be free to wear what you like, walk around dressed as batman or ninja, but you can't cover your face in a store, shop, train, bus,market, office building, mall, hospital, library, waiting room, playground, theater...etc. Streets and sidewalks should practically be the only public place where you can walk around with covered face. Until you enter store, shop etc.
👍👍👍👍
Sam is so cool, the host tries to get him rattled up but he stays like always... cool as f*ck
modern society wouldn't allow loads of people to go around wearing nazi swastika and such stuff because it represents something we dont like. This needs making clear rather than the other silly comparisons like nakedness. Another good comparison is we wouldn't like significant numbers of people wearing masks or such full!face balaclavas in many situations.. It would be ratherer disconcerting and frightening. It is tricky balance with our freedoms but there is an argument that burqa etc represents repression of women rights although in many cases there may be active choice to wear such . Tricky debate worthy.
+blanca roca Totally agree with you. When you wear a particular ideology on your sleeve in public you should accept that this will have implications on the way that people receive you. I agree with the Nazi comparison because I believe that the evils of Nazism are somewhat comparable to those committed in the name of Christianity and Islam. Islam IS a supremacist ideology and when implemented properly, in accordance with the doctrines set out in the Quran & the example of Muhammed, it would make Hitler, Stalin and Mao blush.
blanca roca it's not tricky. Concealing your identity should be illegal for EVERYONE. A lot of these debates could be solved by children. We just need to show some bollocks.
Z
Sam was smiling, rooting her on! Love that guy!
My problem with someone covering their face (except for the eyes), has nothing to do with the person's motivation for covering their face. My problem with it arises when I'm communicating with such a person. Communication is both verbal and non-verbal (in about equal measure). When someone actively prevents me from picking up the non-verbal part of our face-to-face communication, we're not communicating on equal terms. I'm not getting the full picture while my conversation partner does.
Exactly....!!! This is my thoughts too...!! I do NOT care what God that person worships but I do wanna see the (her) face!!
This was ostensibly intended as a debate, but it somehow ended as a bazaar scene. I’m so glad that the loathsome J.P. lost control of the conversation and had a little taste of his own medicine. Well done!
When will muslim respect out culture and traditions ?
we never disrespected it. there just some people who call themselves Muslims and yet everything they do is against Islam
+marco mac do you know what is in the Quran. most of what you read online isn't in the Quran.
+marco mac and Muhammad pbuh didn't even fight. how do you who doesn't practice a Islam know what is the Quran.
+radical ally your lack of knowledge of Islam is trully amazing.
I read Quran, Hadith and Sura.
Mohamed kill over 900 persons with his owm sword ( quraish tribe ) the tribe that brought him up as a child.
Mohamed create a armie and send them to fight yet you say mohamed never fought ?
Lol you are not a muslim since you dont know nothing about islam.
Is mohamed was alive today he will be ISIS comander, they are doing all what mohamed did before them.
Mohamed burn people alive like isis.
Mohamed decapiated people like isis
Mohamed force women in to slavery like isis.
Muslim are the only religius people that i know that dont know anything about their relgiums.
+marco mac show me a verse , or Hadith that says Muhammad killed 600 people with his own sword
The Hijab and Niqab or Burqa are cultural items which derive their existence from ancient patriarchal cultural beliefs, they are not religious items as far as the research I have done seems to suggest. What Muslim women wear is purely derived from the cultural background and nation they or their family originated from. It is obvious to anyone who applies even a modicum of rational thought to this, if it was a religious item of clothing required to be worn because of Muslim beliefs, then why are there such extremes between the three items? One covers the hair only another the face and the last the entire person, all three originate from different cultural backgrounds.
Why when the Qur'an is so precise on all things, is it not clear on which head-dress should be worn if any at all? I've been to Muslim nations which don't expect any head-dress to be worn, I'm somewhat confused as it seems a purely cultural non-religious thing which has taken on religious meaning where in fact there is no genuine evidence to support that claim.
I hear you...
In the UK it's worn in order to provoke, quite often by teens who want the attention. It's that simple.
Look at the "Jihadi-cool "thing as Rushdie calls it. It's attention seeking - getting on the x-factor is difficult - but your 15 mins of fame can be accessed instantly as a Muslim if you are "offended" or "victimised" or you buy a plane ticket to Syria.
Wear what the hell you want, I'm all for free expression. But, in life it's practical, social, respectful and reasonable to want see the face of people you interactive with.
We need to come down on this bullshit.
K Russell
Agreed, sure people should have the right to wear what they want that is the very meaning of freedom of expression. I would however draw the line with regard to legal situations such as trials where a jury's ability to see a persons reactions and facial expressions could well be important (it's easy to lie knowing nobody can see your face) or security situations where the ability to identify a person as who they claim to be is required.
David Hamilton Doesn't have to be women. - anyone can hide behind a hijab. Anyway, forget banks. Wearing a hijab not required in Islam - it's a fashion choice and a sick one at that. If I were to turn up at work as a doctor in a full Micky Mouse outfit there are solely practical reasons why it's a fucking stupid idea.
David Hamilton I think we're in agreement. I said this earlier; In the UK it's worn in order to provoke, quite often by teens who want the attention. It's that simple.
Look at the "Jihadi-cool "thing as Rushdie calls it. It's attention seeking - getting on the x-factor is difficult - but your 15 mins of fame can be accessed instantly as a Muslim if you are "offended" or "victimised" or you buy a plane ticket to Syria.
Wear what the hell you want, I'm all for freedom of expression. But, in life it's practical, social, respectful and reasonable to want see the face of people you interactive with.
We need to come down on this bullshit for the sake of humanity
Felixo C. It's probably more accurate to say there's no place for the West in Islam. We have been so accommodating - there *has* been a place for Islam in the UK - but our efforts are actually beginning to look perversely masochistic when you consider how we have been rejected. The second generation have no allegiance to their host countries - and if their parents did a better job we wouldn't be going through this nightmare. Unfortunately I see Enoch Powell's prediction coming true, I'm absolutely convince of it.
Sam's smile at the end was classic 😂
Should we punish women for being oppressed? Yes, let's pretend that's a difficult question.
Yes Tariq, the state should not tell people how to dress. Now go and tell that to the governments of Saudi Arabia or Iran, and let us know how get on.
I haven't got a problem that they wear it, my problem is that none of them work!
+DJFear Ross Coz covering the face is not all that is part of it. Not mixing with men, talking with them, flirting etc. is all part of it too. Which is why staying at home is part of it too.
+Umar Khan Muslim men are allowed to mix with western women of course.
DJFear Ross not really no but they don't have a choice since they have to go out and work in the world to provide for their families
+Umar Khan So Muslim women don't have to go out to work to provide for their families?
DJFear Ross No they don't have to whilst men have to, it's their duty
The problem is that the state must allow freedom towards people. Many women in the sex trade are abused, they often claim that it is their choice for a vocation, should the state intervene on this? The burka is similar, clearly it is a form of abuse, women can claim it is their choice, should the state intervene? The problem is patriarchy. The state should ensure that every avenue for protection and education is afforded to women who want to escape oppression, that's all.
Really good point
Ney Babak so true
***** i would not stop someone whereing either a helmet or balacalva, stoping people waering what they want is taking away self expresssion. Along those lines, ud then be stopping freadom of speach.
***** wearing** sorry
***** why does it bother you? Wearing a burqa
it's called assimilation
Banning clothing is ridiculous. Target the dynamics that makes clothing an issue. Saying that some fabric or cut is in itself the problem makes one look like a clown. If shoes are bad, then why not mittens? Nazi mittens, perhaps? I fully realize that the symbolic value of certains items grows intense enought at times that people will even die for them, but that problem is not caused by the items or symbols and they are not removed by making them invisible. Rather there is a risk that the real issues become clouded and slide under the cultural abyssal line, when you focus on the sign itself.
6:40 "You'll be arrested if you go in public nude... the state already controls your apparel."
Sam during most of this: “ok I have to remember to grab milk and eggs on the way home.”
HAHA I love SAM HARRIS!!!!