'What's The Difference Between That And Camping Out?': Thomas Questions Lawyer In Homelessness Case
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- Опубликовано: 21 апр 2024
- At today's Supreme Court oral arguments on a key case that could effect homelessness enforcement, Justice Clarence Thomas questioned lawyers.
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i'm assuming this is a case about homeless on public property, not private property?
Of course. It is about people being giving large fines for sleeping or other activities at certain times in a certain city. Or basically, just sitting with all their stuff on a public sidewalk. The Constitution forbids a capitation tax, a tax for just living. While fires can be banned, unsanitary mattresses, etc. Can a person with a blanket be fined for trying to get some sleep is the jist of this.
Yes. The 9th Circuit basically ruled that government agencies in that district cannot fine or arrest people for being homeless unless THEY (or others) provide enough places for the homeless to sleep. So while they can enforce basic laws like sanitation or safety (no camping in a road for example), someone building a camp or tent in any public location basically becomes untouchable under this interpretation, as long we there are less FREE NO COST cots and rooms for them to sleep in. And based on other rulings, they can't do anything simple like set up 1000 cots in a set of Gyms. And per cases relating to prisons and other such items, it becomes unreasonable as they are too crowded and not safe enough. Basically the court created a new right, the right to live in the open UNLESS government or some agency provided you a sufficiently safe and reasonable space to live in.
For example the lawyers for the homeless here argued that even IF the city had plenty of free cots, for the homeless to travel to them would be cruel and unreasonable if these cots were not the area they wished to live in (IE you had better provide the fee cots and homes where they want to be). Which would imply the unreasonable to cities building of homeless shelters on almost every block in a place like California (with 38% of the nations homeless now in part due to this ruling).
The purpose of this ruling for the liberals was to create a problem with the homeless by allowing them everywhere, to the point people get sick of it and say fine take more money get all these people places to sleep. It's not about right or wrong, it's more about forcing people to give up their money. We can only hope the court rules against the advocates for that group and gives cities and towns the ability to force them to leave some areas.
@@putinscat1208 There is a thing zoning. The sidewalk in front of your business or apartment is public property. So, according to you, as long as the mattresses are clean the bums can sleep there. Where will they piss and poop? You can zone certain areas of the city for dope addicts and bums to sleep, piss and poop all day long. Every city used to have one. They were called skid rows.
I pay property taxes on land that I own outright. Why should someone else be able to just camp wherever they want and my taxes have to provide them housing and a bed because it is where they prefer to live? I’m not generally opposed to helping the homeless but it can’t be anywhere they decide is convenient. Otherwise I should be able to camp anywhere I want on public land. Should I also be able to camp anywhere I want on public property? Try that in Washington DC in the capital and you’ll get put in jail for years.
@@andrewmo49 I don't know, why should these same people not take your land and leave you dead. I don't think you quite understand the purpose of taxes. They are not meant that you get a dollar for dollar return.
California can't account for some $24 billion spent on homelessness. What has been the impact of all that money having been spent? This is shameful.
Newsom lining him and his cronies pockets
SHOCKING and OUTRAGEOUS!!!! How the HELL do you not account for $24 BILLION?!?!? They get away with it because there is no accountability!!!!!
Pelosi needed new patio furniture... 🤔
@SomeGuy-cw9rw-- Some of that money will eventually make it's way to Newsom's campaign coffers.
@@godsbeautifulflatearth it got smashed up last time Paul got hammered.
...the difference is when you camp out you have a home to go back to when you are done.
Exactly, plus most campsites now require permits and reservations.
People who camp out who also have homes usually (1) camp in organized camp grounds with access to restrooms, water, trash cans, and fire pits or (2) camp in wilderness and pack out all their trash. When people camp on city streets, there are no sanitary facilities and no trash bins, so it becomes a dirty mess.
So if i have no bathroom i can just pee and poop on the street?
Yes, what a stupid thing for him to say
An even bigger difference, when you camp, you're at a campground (or similar facility) whereby camping is approved.
We just spent 60 billion for Ukraine and we cant take care of our own problems?
We can do both but some choose not to do so.
@@steveb796 No, we can't. We're borrowing money and giving it away while turning down our own necessary programs for funding and cutting benefits from citizens to give to I.I.'s
60* billion
Ukraine got $60 billion not $16 billion.
@@steveb796 Have you seen inflation lately? No we cannot. We shouldn't be doing either, but if I was absolutely forced by a tyrannical government to give my money to some bullshit social/empire building cause funding wars in other countries would be dead last.
Newsom cleaned it up for the Xi visit.
they aren't supposed to argue compassion, they are supposed to consider what the law says not their own personal feelings about the matter.
Unless it has to do with abortion. Then, law and precedent are cast aside in favor of the emotions of the billionaires who own the conservative justices.
since when has justice been as simple as a rule book.
@@bob3ironfist Which is what the progressive justices did back in the day when they claimed the Constitution covered abortion in Roe v Wade! We aren’t saying women shouldn’t have the right. You just cannot say the Constitution gives such a right.
@@dward8738NAILED IT
Actually, they are to APPLY THE COTUS, as written, as interpreted by the Framers at the time of ratification! We are simply undoing the Marxist sodomy of the COTUS starting with the "progressive movement" (Marxist) begun in earnest by Woodrow Wilson!
If a person camps permanently on public property then thst property is no longer public. It is de facto private property. I can't use the section of sidewalk a homeless person is permanently or semi-permanently occupying.
Actual campgrounds have rules and ordinances against long-term occupancy. It is bizzare to me that major cities can't have such ordinances regarding sidewalks and parks.
Those campground rules are usually imposed by the municipality.
@@peterrose5373 Yes, they are. But they are still legally imposed.
This is exactly the issue. The homeless lifestyle culture commandeers the public areas so that no one else may use the public areas.
There are huge empty plots of land everywhere in the U.S. Over many years, state and federal governments have turned some of them into campgrounds for vacationers. These campgrounds often have showers, electric, vending machines, toilets, etc. You pay to go to a campground like this, and it's great revenue for the government. Why can't campgrounds similar to this be established for the homeless, with similar facilities, near a bus route, and easily accessed by charity groups, medical teams, rehab personnel and employers looking for workers? Shopping areas would be a bus trip away. Mail and deliveries would treat it like any large apartment complex, with a central office to receive things. Every camper would be registered with the office with important information including next of kin, etc. For all the wasted land we have, I don't see why they aren't doing more of these "transitional" campgrounds. Pets allowed. Maybe there can also be a minimal nightly or weekly fee.
@yellowbird5411 There are facilities like this already, they are called prisons. They only work with force for they are dealing with people who are not right in the head. Also, state governments lose money on campgrounds a lot of the time.
Love this idea! I have always felt that if someone becomes homeless, most start looking for a hand up, not a hand out. And most would prefer to work and work towards establishing a home of their own. But it's virtually impossible if you have to sleep on a park bench ... 😢
@@tracianderson8384 Go for it. Buy the land and get to it.
@@JohnSmith-ti2kp This is an interesting discussion. Firstly, a campground is not a "facility" like a prison. No one is convicted in a court and made to go there and kept against their will. They can choose to go to a shelter, or a rehab center. Having worked with the mentally ill for over 30 years, I agree, that since they closed down all the state mental hospitals because the government didn't want to spend the money any more, these unfortunate folks are left to wander the streets, off their medication and abused, ignored or killed. They were supposed to get case managers to visit them every month to keep them stable in the community, at least that is the story they sold us. We knew it wasn't going to work long term, and it hasn't. Many people with mental illness just need medication to get back to independent living in assisted living. Designating a "transistional" campground for homeless is, in my view, no different than "forcing" me to live in a house or apt. in areas zoned for it. I cannot build a house anywhere I want, cannot rent anywhere I want, and cannot do a LOT of things anywhere I want. It's part of having a civilization instead of a jungle. Thank you for your reply, I appreciate it.
@@yellowbird5411 The state mental hospitals closed to fund GOP tax cuts under Reagan.
No law saying you have to rent or buy a home, but depending on where homeless status areas are might pose a problem.
there is nothing in the constitution that i know of that deals with continuous travelers,(homeless and which full time RVrs are as well ) there are plenty of places you can camp out but they may not be a place of your choice. Cities, counties all have ordinances about this within their boundaries.. The first thing that happened was 20 years ago State Campgrounds starting raising fees for a campsite. At that time is was 10 a night in which 2 homeless people would pony up 5 each and split the site. For wood they would go find pallets and shop them up. Now that same Encinitas Ca campsite is 50 a night...the homeless have been priced out of camping while not having a roof over their heads, its a car a tent or an RV. The States to blame for this entire situation.
@@jim-oq9px That's a very good point. Also, taking away mental asylums and kicking them all to the streets was a very bad idea.
@@jim-oq9px Not true! Free public camping is available on BLM and National Forest lands all across the country. There is an entire nomadic sub-culture on RUclips.
@@jasonjames4254 everything I said was true, I said their were lots of places and I was referring to more remote BLM, I stayed their myself one summer in Big Bear Ca but I had to buy a 40 dollar annual parking pass .in Oregon BLM is free, My point was directed at so cal and the beginning of the campground fee hikes .I camped my camper next to homeless fam and saw how they did it.
@@jasonjames4254 also fyi, homeless stay close to cities for the amenities, restrooms, use of EBT card, other homeless, pann handling, social service offices food pantry s and libraries where they hang out all day...
Apparently Judge Thomas hasn't tried camping out lately. You need permits from the forest service or park to stay over night. They want to know how long you are staying and what your itinerary is. They regulate how many people can stay in any given campground at any time. They frequently charge a fee for these services.
I think that is what he is saying. That if camping can be regulated then why not homeless camps?
@@barreloffun10 because camping is voluntary
@@BastiatC So is where you sleep.
@@barreloffun10 yes, which is why it is not unjust that I must pay money to sleep here. No one however sleeps on the street because they want to.
@@BastiatC Some do. Others make life choices that lead to them sleeping, crapping, and doing drugs in public. The public shouldn't have to put up with it.
This is not good
Apparently you can be fined or arrested in that area if you are CAMPING and homeless. But if you are camping in the same area but not homeless, then it's OK.
Bottom line - they are making homelessness itself the crime.
Conduct, not status, are criminal, and that's been the legal predicate in America since America itself.
Wrong. If you are on someone's property, THAT is not illegal. But if the owner tells you to leave the cop will trespass you which means he can order you to leave. If you leave you do not get arrested but if you remain or if you leave and return you WILL be arrested. Camping in the wrong place will not get you arrested because camping is temporary by its nature. The cop knows that the camper will pack up an leave if he's told to but a bum camping intends to stay or intends to return and that is why "Homeless" encampments are illegal.
Make sure they add in there that many seniors are living in their cars and they're not given any credit for the fact that they have to spend four to $500 in gas and maintenance on their car just to keep legal and we get no credit for that and no food stamps we built this damnation show some respect
The fact that you built this is exactly why no one respects you. You were handed the greatest country in history and in one generation you turned it into this.
Move! There are states and cities with subsidized senior housing and Medicaid that pays Medicare Part B/C premiums. My friend gets just over $1000 a month in Social Security and pays $335 a month in subsidized rent.
@@jasonjames4254 I know this but in 11 years they've changed the way they do their housing lists four times now I'm down to just living in my car they had me on hospice they came out twice and said I'm taking too good a care of myself can you imagine that and I'm dying with cancer
They also have to shit. How's that working out???
Probably about the same for them as it is for you.
@@rusedorange NOPE. They aren't paying to poop like we are. We pay for sewer monthly, or we have septic systems that aren't free and require maintenance.
same as San Fran.
@@legaleeblonde4310 you have sick mind, just sayin'
@@legaleeblonde4310 You pay not to sleep next to your poop, not to poop. Homeless people sleep next to their own, the pigeons and the dogs' poop.
If I have nowhere else to sleep, I have the right to sleep where ever I want. So by that logic, if I have no money (which is necessary in a modern economy) I have the right to steal. This sounds like the same warped path that got us to squatter's rights. If I move into a vacant house, the rightful owner can't throw me out because I suddenly have tenet's rights. These are "rights run amok". It's time to stop the insanity.
Every person arguing for the right of homeless people to camp out in our public spaces should be required to accommodate at least one encampment of homeless people with substance abuse challenges on their front or back yard.
Yeah let's punish people with differing opinions
@@tylerchapman9234 Punish? What ever could you mean?
Homeless people are just like you and me, innocent children of God who have, through no fault of their own, wound up being victimized by an unfair society. Having homeless people camped out in your yard should be considered a reward or even a badge of honor.
Honestly, I am offended that you consider homeless people to be less than human. It is sickening and maybe you should check your privilege.
@@Uncommonsenses 🤣😂🤣No truer words ever spoken!
If these people went to a campground I don't think anybody would have a problem
These people. Of which I am one are exactly where they tell us we have to be.
How would they get there? How would they feed themselves? Why are you ok with people being fined when they have no other option?
What about shelters provided by city?
What happened to vagrancy laws?
and that's the idea in front of the SC, to place those 'back' on the books along with loitering and trespassing.
if one chooses to squat they'll have to do so on 'leftist' property, not 'public property'...
Racist!
@@tylerchapman9234 Why?
They have been declared INVALID for BEING UNCONSTITUTIONALLY VAGUE - A VIOLATION OF DUE PROCESS.
@@jonathansegraves8623So then we make them more specific.
How does $60k in building materials cost the buyer $350k for the house? It's just not worth the money. Especially, when you have low wages.
So save up $60K and build your own house. Oh, don't forget the cost of the property it's located on. Or the utilities it's connected to. Or the roads that allow you access. Factor in permits and inspections and contractor's insurance, and remember to grant yourself an allowance for waste removal. Invite me over to your shack in 25 years.
@@pricklypear7516and a little labor too¡!!!!!!dud
@@swissgirlie1 Wake up, hon. That's why I said 25 years: To do what a crew could do in a few weeks.
Maybe they could go camp out on the supreme court judges property and fertilize their lawn at the same time. I'm sure the judges wouldn't mind.
maybe bums need to camp 'only' on a leftist-owned property only -- public property is that -- public and 'not' for a bum's squatting...
Tiny homes on city lots? Doubt that could happen in states.
tiny home communities can resemble prisons, the homeless gives up some rights to get the house...it's a trade off
In my community, they were referred to as "planned slums" and overridden.
It happens in most areas we do engineering work in. But this is about supporting a drug lifestyle with taxpayer money.
You need to check out Vermont. Theyve now got pods for homeless downtown in a parking lot.
Need to power wash this building. Community standards.
😂😂
😂😂😂 someone needs to open up a law suit against the supreme court for not power washing the building and failure to look after public property
Power wash the homeless while you're at it too ?
If we allow homeless to take over public spaces, then how does the public, the taxpayers, utilize the space they are paying for? Are we holding the homeless responsible for the damages? The pollution? The fact that people can't use the park for what it was intended for?
The thousands of homeless I encountered at my job were not interested in work, shelter, responsibility, accountability. They took over Emergency Rooms, they caused millions of dollars to be lost by hospitals, and they never showed any intention of bettering themselves. That was about 99% of my street experience for 20 years. I, and many others, have lost patiencr with policies that coddle them. If they want to better themselves, then there are plenty of opportunities. Otherwise, they should all be forced to live in a segregated area away from the public that they have taken advantage of until they decide to participate in society, not leach off it.
I had a friend who worked at a homeless camp & only 1 person there wasn't a drug user. They have 100% medical coverage coverage paid for by the state, they receive food stamps. In my area, I've seen some of the homeless threaten to kill other people without provocation.
Public parks aren't camp grounds. They even have signs stating the park is closed after dark.
Criminalizing a problem does nothing to solve it.
Hmmm. So, entering our country ill3gally or looting shouldn't be a crime? Seems like we aren't enforcing a lot of criminal laws lately, causing all of this chaos.
It's a deterrent for that behavior. The same reason giving out free clean needles, etc makes the problem worse, rather than helping.
Say it louder for the people at the back! Criminalizing homelessness doesn't suddenly give people the incentive to get homes. It's not the absence of desire to have a roof over their heads that keeps them on the street.
Things that actually work: affordable housing, temporary housing, mental health treatment, addiction treatment, and paying people a living wage.
@@ericw9702 are you serious? Like people are trying to decide whether to be homeless or not and they just decide not to because it’s illegal. Wow.
@@ericw9702 Giving out free needles keeps a heroin problem from becoming a heroin + AIDS problem. Don't forget these people end up in hospitals often, and they can infect people that don't use drugs. Also, it allows the drug user more time and chances to get clean. It slows down the emergency, and there is nothing anyone wants more during an emergency than more time to deal with it. What made you think that clean needles was a bad thing? That's kind of a wild thing to think... who told you that?
Person responding to addiction has no idea what they are talking about.
If drugs and alcohol are gone does that addiction stop
@@mikepolls3032 the obsession remains, insanity comes next.
@@mcross320 And at the point where that "insanity" makes someone a threat to themselves or others, they can be involuntarily committed in a facility. Addiction is NOT an illness, and you have no fundamental right to partake in an addition that threatens the safety and security of others.
@@jasonjames4254 Try talking about something you know rather than make your shit up!
@@mcross320 Trust me, I know something about addiction and involuntary commitment. Over half the people who are involuntarily committed are addicts.
Nowhere Man..............
If the highest court in the land is asking what the difference between camping and being homeless, this country has no chance.
OK Mr. or Ms. Genius. Give us THE DEFINITIVE TAKE on THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CAMPING & BEING HOMELESS. Are ONLY PEOPLE WITH HOMES TO GO BACK TO ALLOWED TO CAMP OUT ?? ARE HOMELESS PEOPLE PROHIBITED FROM "camping out" ?? Is GOD a better judge of homelessness AS A CRIME or is THE HIGHEST COURT IN ALL THE LAND ? WHO ARE YOU ANYWAY, THE TOWN CRIER ?? " HEAR YE, HEAR YE .... " I believe you're missing the point of the justices' questions . They aren't asking the lawyers and attorneys to TELL THEM what homelessness IS, they are asking them to distingush between having lost all of ANY TYPE of shelter or HOME ( " BEING HOMELESS " ) & breaking the law SIMPLY FOR HAVING FALLEN AT ONE TIME ON THE HARDEST OF HARDEST TIMES THEY HAVE EVER EXPERIENCED AND TRYING TO STAY ALIVE.
The question is rhetorical and intended to make a point. He understands camping is when you sleep in a tent outside.
Again, you misinterpreted the entire conversation.
Maybe that it is involuntary ?
There is no other choice, is simply not true. Life is all about what choices.
Open the border and let in 20 more homeless people.
Most homeless people are American citizens.
'What's The Difference Between That And Camping Out?': Thomas Questions Lawyer In Homelessness Case
Depends on who's property someone is camping on. Its trespassing if on private property. So the implication here must be public property.
Simple. Camping isn't permanent and requires designated areas. You can't camp anywhere you want either.
Camping laws are just an older example of outlawing homelessness
@@Guy4UnderDog Can't wait for them to move in front of your house or business.
When you're camping out... you can go home. It's different when you have no where to go.
SMH.....God help us.
When I was homeless (multiple times), I slept in friends' living rooms, relatives' backyards, and my car. So, camping on a sidewalk isn't the ONLY option of a homeless person. Not to mention homeless shelters being available.
The issue is that sidewalks and streets have a designated use for ALL the public. An individual camping is taking the use of that property from the public. It's essentially theft.
Many homeless people choose to be homeless. They are offered help constantly and say no thanks. I'm saying this as someone who was homeless, have friends who were homeless, and work with the homeless.
When you allow people to live in "permanent" tents on the street, you are being an enabler.
What if you didn’t have friends with a living room , or relatives with a backyard. Or a vehicle. What would you have done.
You weren't homeless if you had relatives living rooms and backyards and a car.
Not the same thing
You were not homeless otherwise you would have compassion towards others. Obviously you learned nothing from your time as a homeless.
@@Thearvdrevery state has homeless shelters. What is the purpose behind sleeping in tents crowding public space? Skid row is horrendous and you see similar tent cities in Philadelphia and Oregon
Oh, "Quit being so stingy" Or this One; "Sidewalks For Every-body"!
I even do my toilette thereon!
They have shelters but refuse to go to them bc they have rules
Often, these rules prevent homeless people from staying there and having a job by enforcing strict curfews
They have less than 100 shelter beds in Josephine county..
My understanding is also that the people are basically incarcerated in the shelter.
How bout you go try it for a day
@@shell16858You have no place to live. Yet you are so picky about the condition of the shelter? How about we move you into a 5 star hotel?
@@brotherbig4651 Exactly! The homeless are always just beggars wanting to be choosers. If I were homeless, I'd happily take an Army style barracks over sleeping in the freaking street any day! Matter of fact, when I was in the Navy I lived in a berthing compartment aboard ship with bunks stacked 3 high and over 60 other guys in an area of 500 SF. If it was good enough for me then, it's good enough for the homeless now! It's not luxury but it's housing! Tell them here's your bunk, there's the shower, now get off your sorry ass and get a job!
@@jasonjames4254really? Well then say good bye to privacy or friends. Or staying out with the rest of the normal society. You further distance yourself from all things you might be exposed to. Like theft, rape, beating, indoctrination, stigma is bad enough. Guilt is twice as hard. . But hey your not picky .. it's all part of the process. (Sarcasm)...
A brilliant youngish man, who lost his elite job & condo during the lockdown, politely talked a priest into letting him stay inside the church for catching up on VERY needed upkeep.
He is getting financially stable while polishing & cleaning.
(Attends services too.)
Our church is SHINING! With God’s help & grace.
❤
And this young man is not an addict and he will obviously soon work his way out of his problem. This is NOT the typical homeless person!
does this reasoning then mean that people with no food (which is a basic human need), should be able to steal to eat? this is a slippery slope...also, should public beaches not shut down after dark? So homeless can set up camp there...?
I'd argue yes that someone with no food or free access to it should steal it. We make a huge excess of food. You can't just go without drinking water or eating you psychopath.
Aren't these people sleeping in public parks? They're not stealing anything.
“People, do not despise a thief if he steals to satisfy himself when he is starving.” Proverbs 6:30-31
@janetmcguffey13 when was the last time you had nothing to eat for a few days?
There's a false assumption that homeless are not given the opportunity to sleep in shelter. That shelter always comes with rules - no drugs, no violence, etc., and those rules exactly why homeless choose to sleep outdoors. They are drug addicted and don't want to change and they fight with other homeless, which forces shelters to kick them out for safety reasons.
Camping out occurs when you have a home to go to after your time outdoors. Remember when you and Ginny used to park your RV at Walmart, that’s camping out Judge Thomas, since you have a home. Homelessness occurs when an individual has no other option but to sleep outdoors when shelter beds are all taken.
Are you homeless? If not, why? How does one have no other option but be homeless? Maybe, they have abused all other options, burnt all bridges, destroyed all relationships at a time when there was some options. The liberal left is always first to demand the government spend other peoples'' money so they can act as if they really care about an issue. You sure have a thing against Judge Thomas, it's obvious why.
I was paying taxes while living in my car and yet received 0 assistance they make u jump through unrealistic loops homeless shelters are a total scam disgusting.
A lot of 501c folks make a nice living off of addiction and homelessness.
@@whowillsaveyou3554 I asked the salvation army if I could sleep in my car in the parking lot since I was working 2nd shift and was told no and since I've slept at a lot of Walmarts before I asked if I could do that in this specific town the lady lied to me and told me I'd be arrested. The worst kind of people work in these places.
I don't know which country actually has the most personal freedom, but I know it's not one where homelessness is a crime.
Go to Haiti
Homelessnes is not a crime...pitching a tent in front of my house is!
Are we winning the fight against homelessness, or are we funding it? People are stupid and don't know how the world works, and so you get comments like Frostbite's.
Homelessness is not a crime. Commandeering a park for rampant drug use is a crime. That is what this case is about.
seriously?????
So the difference is... one is a word.... The other is an activity.
Glad I could help clear that up for yall.
One is very temporary and the other is permanent. Not hard
The difference is camping out with corporate executives and high court justices.
This case is about criminalising the pathology of the American society. The problem is that it criminalises the behaviour of the wrong people.
You are free to move to Russia when you so choose Comrade. The rest of us prefer a society where people are expected to contribute to the public good, in order to partake of the public good. Or you are free to empty your pockets of all the money you have to support them. Me, I'm keeping mine as I worked hard to earn it, work hard to save it, and do not plan to waste it.
@@walterengler5709 If your freedom narrative is true, then I'm also free to stay here and say what I want. Also, in no way do you "speak for the rest of us." The "public good" is helping one another, obviously something you don't do. It's a characteristic of a weak person masquerading as a strong person.
@@phaedrussmith1949 The public good is helping those who help themselves. Harkening back to the early colonial days of no work no food, I expect people to try to improve, try to be useful to society, try to be part of the public good. And those I do help, far more than all the liberals ever do from the efforts I've put in with people. As for the rest who want to live off the public good, that is merely wasting effort and time and producing nothing for society. And when people can't understand that, well, you get the homeless mess like you see in California.
Portland is not far. Lots of room there.
Robinson v. California from 1962? unconstitutional to punish someone for being a drug addict? if that's true then that's an assumption and assuming ALL homeless are drug addicts, there is no proof of that whatsoever.
Camping Out is a choice of Action. 👀😳
Housing should be considered a utility. When people get to flip homes and use them solely as investments housing prices will go up. When businesses that pay well only go to large cities in states and not the rural areas, that will drive up costs for limited housing. Cities and states are attacking problems influenced by high housing costs and not what is causing housing cost to increase and help increase the homeless population. Only a small percentage of the homeless want to be homeless, maybe 10 to 20 percent. But the availability and affordability is a major issues for those who lose housing for some reason or another. If electric companies could charge us $120 for turning on a light for an hour they would. That is why they are controlled and regulated. The same with cable and insurance.
I would agree if it weren't for the fact that regular home owners also get very greedy and sell their property for overvalued prices, not just investors and flippers.
Just to push buttons I’d build my shelter out of closet doors so I can always be indoors
There are public camp grounds.
Clerence, I do a lot of camping... The difference between camping and being homeless is that I have a house, I buy my food, load up my tent, ice chest, and stove and go somewhere nice. For the homeless it is where can I sleep tonight without getting assaulted or arrested. If you still don't get it; leave your money, cards and ID at home & go, see how you do living on the streets for a week or two, then get back to me.
A work for benefits program would be worth talking about.
What is the purpose of poverty, other than cruelty?
@Spyrit: There was a Reference book at the library about the 1800's. The brilliant societal engineers were playing this game with little have nots. I did not know i'd need to reference it when i read it. Darn it. It explains the disgusting attitude of the Wealthy towards the 99% back then.
The exploitation just for their amusement. I wish the Lord would hurry, so we could ask him what he would do. Don't you?
(Proverbs 19:17). Those who refuse to help the poor will find themselves on the losing end: “Those who give to the poor will lack nothing, but those who close their eyes to them receive many curses” (Proverbs 28:27).
Purpose of poverty? Very strange question. Poverty is the result of lacking X and Y. It is not a goal.
@@terywetherlow7970 The Lord said, when I asked him " it is like trying to pick up a turd by the clean end" We both had a good laugh and he wooshed away into the breeze never to be seen again. The lord is a really funny guy ,you should meet him someday, once was enough for me! A real cutup though!
@@terywetherlow7970 I am an Atheist, not that it relevant to my point. However, it is the question I pose to every capitalist, and have yet to get an answer.
Criminalizing being homeless is infact inhumane.
That was just the opening statement, it is far more complex than that.
It is a busy clear that being homeless in itself is not a criminal activity, but having that same homeless person camping out on my front lawn, is.
@Ont785 on your property, yes. On Public property, no.
The government created an environment and drove prices and cost of living so high people are 1 paycheck away from homelessness. They then criminalize it so the state can arrest and extort people for money they don't have or jail them in which the state gets funding for each prisoner in return. Government created this issue
This argument is close to a constitutional right to be housed by the government. The person is not responsible providing the essential needs because the lack of them must be accommodated by the government.
Makes yo wonder if the Court ever had a case concerning taxpayers rights as to what they will and will not pay for.
If the argument is that homelessness is a criminal act, then, if I, as person who has a home, goes and sleeps on a part bench, I will not be arrested, so long as I can prove that I do have a home?
All saddens me in America. No one should be homeless here I don't care what their issues are. Reality is many have different life situations, so they will need help for various reasons. Basic essentials are a roof over our heads, food, and health care.
I try never to look down on anyone but lift them up. 🙏🏾
Then YOU can pay for them
My family has taken in several homeless over the years. Major lesson learned.....no one will benefit from your generosity unless they truly want help. They steal from you, abuse you, won't clean up after themselves, refuse counciling or helpful advice. Love can't solve homeless problems. Allowing people to live openly in The streets and not arresting criminals leads to broken down society.
@@boondocks8002I totally agree. I've taken in two people before, and they didn't want to live by my rules, like don't bring in drugs, don't steal my stuff, etc.
@@legaleeblonde4310 exactly. It's dangerous now to take in homeless. We stopped doing it recently.
Ignorance at it's finest. 99% of homelessness is by choice. There are programs to assist homeless to find and maintain permanent homes and jobs.
It's like a border. When you retreat, it retreats with you.
What was the point in such a short clip?
Are they going to make food illegal to them next
People should be free to sleep on public grounds as long as they don't make a mess and as long as they aren't there for extended periods.
The answer to the question when it comes to camping , there are no sanitary facilities. Plain and simple .
We need to take a look at how Belgium handles their homeless.
nope. Look at the vast majority of the nations of the planet, the 'choice' to become a bum is a Western phenomenon, 'civilized' nations of the planet do 'not' permit folks to make the 'choice' to become a bum -- that's the definition of 'humanity'...
Homelessness is a symptom not a crime. Until we address the core problems, which are varied and complex, the solution will remain elusive. A sweep it under the rug, out of site out of mind, into a prison approach is the real crime.
The difference is the campers have money so they can challenge any tickets given without a legal reason for it being given..the homeless have no money to fight this shit!
We need a president that will stand up for america!! The way bidin treated the Supreme jutice at the state of reunion was a shame!!
I can't believe they've gotten this far in this case without figuring out an objective definition of homelessness. This should have been the first thing they hashed out.
Libs want it to be a "status" 👈🤔
so that they can argue
"oppression" against "status"...
Lifestyle observations is you will know a person by their fruit.
But if you pay rent how you going to get high !?
meaning if you have a job and pay rent how do you get high, you don't, not much time for that anymore..
No need to criminalize homeless status. But sleeping on public property and creating little garbage dumps should be illegal. It is not cruel and unusual to tell a homeless person to obey this law. Homeless people have a choice to either get a job or panhandling. Oh, by the way, stealing shopping carts should be prosecuted and punished.
It's just sick when a supreme court justice doesn't know the difference between camping out and not having a home to live in what the hell is wrong with the system
Produce itemized list where the money has been spent, and thats for all government agencies! People are homeless due to the government . Wrath is real, and so is the reckoning!
Yes but they should be able to control the amount of time. The amount of time you can stay on Federal Land is limited for most part two weeks. Then they require you to move at least 30 Mi away. If the federal government can do it that's existing precedence that states counties and cities can do the same thing. In other words you have to leave this County for 2 weeks.
better yet, adopt the policy the Romans did 2000 years ago, keep them 'moving', no squatting on public property anytime anywhere...
It seems to me the problem here is an unwillingness to give homeless people more options within a jurisdiction. Yes, there are shelters, but they have rules and can kick you out. Once out, there is no longer a place of last resort, and you're forced to sleep in nature.
Maybe we should have a more tiered approach with a robust last resort. Have a plot of land where they can encamp if that's all they got left.
Speaking of camping. Where were you for a week there Mr Thomas? In the RV on a vacation?
Not relevant.
they had a road in my county which allowed overnight parking for rv's and camping. it filled up pretty quick once word got out you didn't have to move your rig at night. needless to say those people trashed that road so bad really fckd it up. then the county made it a tow zone between 9 pm and 7 am. problem solved
Many laws designed to prevent poverty actually cause it. Building codes designed for safety actually mostly set esthetic standards. Homelessness is caused by laws that set too high minimum standards for housing. Tiny houses are illegal in most jurisdictions for example. Composting toilets also...
Many rural areas in Arkansas don't have building codes and Shed houses/Tiny houses are becoming very common. Many people simply can't afford ordinary housing even in relatively inexpensive Arkansas.
A decades old example of a solution to homelessness that continues to exist because of unique circumstances is Slab City. I knew a lady who was disabled in a car accident. She lived there for 5 years by only using part of her food stamps for food(this was before SSI) She endured 120 degree summers without ac. Finally, she was able to get treatment and escape the homeless poverty trap.
Every place I've ever camped, I have to camp in a designated spot, and usually pay a small fee...
The FACT is, most of these homeless camps are full of trash and squalor, and drugs.
If you have ever been in a city with homeless encampments on sidewalks you know that first its a violation of the local law, and second senior citizens and the young have to walk into a busy street just to get around these encampments. You are putting these law-abiding citizens lifes at risk just so vagrants can sleep outside
Sometimes seniors and the young are also the homeless 🤷♂️ ... omg I'm sorry I should say this 😂🎉😅
If they have no where else to go where do you send them? Or put them? If the jail is full then? Etc.,
@@williamryder5021 As you know, hopefully, that this is mental illness. But the crux of the problem is not available housing or help, which many cities have and fund. The problem is these people do not want to use these service. And due to the unfortunate "Mental Health Patient’s Bill Of Rights" we cannot make them. So they are just allowed to break laws and ordinances. Doing nothing is not the answer. In the meantime, I see it every day, people being forced to walk out into the busy streets just so vagrants can occupy and trash a complete sidewalk
If camping out as the Justice states is OK, I’m sure he won’t mind if any of us “camp out” in his back yard awhile.
That would be private property
@datswassup9902 how about the sidewalk out by their driveway?
I feel bad for the homeless but they can't camp anywhere they want
Time to open drug rehabilitation clinics. Mental illness clinics. Not give them drugs and the needles to do them. Tax paying citizens and business should not have to walk through street covered in trash and urine streets and sidewalks to get to work, and have no customers because of this government crisis.
If you have nowhere to go and nowhere to call yours to sleep ….. you can go nearly anywhere and sleep nearly anywhere also … so to find it abhorrent to prohibit sleeping on sidewalks and in open public spaces seems illogical, when said person can migrate to an area they chose, that it is not prohibited to sleep outside in public spaces …
not having a home is NOT a status any more than not having a bike
Not having a bike and not having a home are two very different things
What a dumb equivalency.
Better question Clarence, what is the difference between an honest judge and a corrupt one beholden to special interests?
bring affordable housing to people. Criminalizing homelessness while at the same time not providing shelter doesn't make any sense. It would be like criminalizing breathing air
Thomas wants to know if ever his RV breaks down.
So the Justice that is in favor of Corp gouging rule from withing our Gov shows a heart... What's wrong with letting the homeless camping at the park? Now if some Monsanto GMO pollen landed on them and they tried to grow with it that would be patent infringement as I ruled before. Then you can fine them.
"Why can't these poors simply get millions in donations from the super reach and live in expensive luxury campers? I simply don't understand how being homeless works, it is just like camping right? Anyways when's my next million dollar bribe coming in" - Clarence Thomas
I can see how this would go completely over your head.
Racist much?
9th circuit is the problem.
You can't even park your car anywhere you want for as long as you want. If you don't like it, go to a state or area that allows it.
Illegals are given Welfare, Medicaid, and first rights to housing and jobs. All at US Taxpayers expense. Yet we can't help the American homeless people. Some of these homeless people suffer from various problems, mental illness, drug and alcohol addiction. We also have homeless US Veterans that our government has turned their backs on. Whatever happened to caring for the poor and needy.
Well, that would be all of those people. Your statements have truthiness, but are hyperbolic. WTF is 'first rights' to housing and jobs? That's weird b.s.; no one has a right to either, alas. All of those issues are tackled but by different people. Want compassion in laws that tend to humans rather than systems? Vote for compassionate people who think money is a resource and not the goal.
TENT CITIES HARM BUSINESSES. When tourists travel to a destination that they are not familiar with, they tend to focus on the most is safety and whether the city offers a destination that is appealing. Factors to consider about travel safety include available accomodations, health and safety concerns. Rows of tent cities lining sidewalks blocking access to businesses and sidewalk passage is a problem. I no longer go to SF or Bay Area (especially Oakland) because it is an awful place to be. Even going to the airport is avoided because of the safety concerns. TENT CITIES VS COMMERCE U DECIDE. #TOURISM #TAXREVENUE #IMPACT onBUSINESSES
Other countries have solved this problem years ago. Criminalizing this won't make it go away ever. Sadly most employers don't want to give any homeless person a job. All people need a safe place to go to. Thank you.
*#CubaThen! Safe and Homey
Other countries solved this long ago? Lol. Thank God we have a free press so we are able to hear the truth and not some propaganda that homelessness is not an issue.
Homelessness is not going away. Its not going to be solved. We will always have the poor. We will always have mentally ill and addicted. What we can do is stop pretending everyone is better than us because they're not us and tend to the separate issues at hand. The first one would be to deport all the noncitizens that are causing the most problems, make institutions for chronically addicted (not jail) and properly care for the mentally ill. Get the government out of our business so we can afford homes and food and medical expenses. Make charity a thing again and live the truth that, yes, i am my brothers keeper.
I have to pay for living expenses and pay taxes. What does a homeless person to contribute to society.
That’s a horrible take
@@Monkles301 Why is that horrible? Lol.
Many homeless people work and pay taxes also.
Clearly You are not a Fan of The New Socialism; Biden Style
Cleaner windshields duh
Thomas has his billionaire master Harlan to take care of him. Homeless people might as well try to get arrested so they have a place to stay.