EDIT: I totally neglected to mention anything about how Push handles 3rd party plugins like VSTs, AUs, etc. (my bad 😅) and there have been a lot of questions about that! In Control mode, plugins run on your computer as normal and you can control them from Push in the same way you could with any MIDI controller. In Standalone mode, Push does not yet support 3rd party plugins. You can create sets on your computer that use plugins then transfer them over to Push, as long as that tracks with plugins on them are frozen. The biggest issue here is not support for 3rd party plugins but rather how to handle the complex interfaces of plugins in a way that makes sense. Push is really engineered to work well with Live's built in instruments and effects, so if you're a Push user its a good idea to get familiar with those. Hope that clears everything up!
You wrote "Push does not yet support"... but i m not sure if it ever will. At least i didnt read anything about that by Ableton. The only thing i could imagine is some hacked Push, inofficially supporting plugins :) I also think it's much more about efficiancy/cpu/RAM power than the interface. A i3 with almost no RAM crumbles with some instances of Omnisphere, Keyscape, etc. The interface problem would be easily solvable, by first creating your liveset on PC/MAC, as you dont even need to see the plugin windows after the plugin parameters have been assigned to Ableton device knobs.
I get that for some plugins, this wouldn't work or would be very jank, but many plugins expose all of their automatable parameters in a specific list to their host (usually a DAW). Some plugins like Airwindows' creations exclusively do this, with no actual interface. IMO Push 3 should support being able to load in & control plugins exclusively through these parameters in pageable lists. It won't be as spiffy as the plugin's actual interface, and may outright not work for some plugins, but it would at least be an option.
@@ELPHNTThat is extremely unlikely. Plugins are developed for an operating system (windows, MacOS). Push 3 has its own proprietary OS. Developers will not release versions for that.
Thanks! I really wanted to do something different with this one - less focus on the gear itself and more on what the gear can help you to do. Glad that comes across 😃
In standalone (it's a non exhaustive list of what you can't do): - for now impossible to copy/paste multiple notes in edit clip mode. i mean we have a jogwheel to select multiple notes, so we can delete them, change position, nudge, change pitch, velocity, vel range and probability but we cannot simply copy and past them in another position. i mean Ctrl C, Ctrl V is the most basic and useful opération in edition that you can do... - for now we can't access to the groovepool, clip behaviour etc etc.... - for now we can't use some max devices such as sequencers - for now you can't map the destination of the LFO effect (is it even possible to not be able to do that?!?) so to be clear it's just useless to add an LFO in standalone mode. to me no arrangement mode is not so bad, i'll have to learn how to use ableton in a different way, maybe it can bring some creativity but this can't do list is just i was a push 2 user and for me after one or two weeks using the push 3 in standalone i think it's just super expensive for what it is. maybe they will make an update soon but now, you can't even scratch the surface of Ableton with that device in standalone mode.
Look, here's the thing - this new device might promise 'flow', but in reality it's not for everyone: it's introducing a totally different and, in my opinion, more cumbersome workflow for people like me. I only use ableton for composing and producing, I never perform Live, I only use the arrange view. For me it's like taking a step back to the era of the flip phones and navigating endless menus on small screens with limited input interface. It's a world apart from what we're used to, and even if it was better (which it's not), just the time it'd take to get used to it makes it counterproductive. I personally bailed on my Push 2 after just two weeks because I couldn't deal with it. Now, consider the alternative to run Ableton on the go.....a MacBook. Same price range, same portability, yet a universe apart in terms of user experience. It offers full functionality, full interface, a crisp and larger screen, better battery life, and a more robust processor. Plus, once you're done with Ableton, you're left with a fully functioning MacBook. The fact is, unless you're performing live regularly with the Push 3, I firmly believe that a MIDI instrument plugged into a computer is the way to go. It's faster, simpler, and more straightforward. The Push 3 isn't far off from a MacBook in terms of price, that's why I compared them. Unless you've got a very specific requirement or cash to throw around, I'd say stick with your mouse and keyboard. Especially if you're already comfortable with that workflow.
Agreed, the Push workflow only caters to a specific target audience. I really like the new MPE pads though, but I'm not sure if it's worth the price and desk space to get a Push 3 just for the pads.
@@imcubix Im similar where the MPE looks like such an amazing creative tactile experience that im debating getting one. I had a used Push2, it had some issues so brought it in to get sent for repair, then found out that the retailer no longer sells or supports Ableton products, so I got my money back, $600 CDN, so thinking of saving up a for a bit and putting it towards the non-standalone version as I never plan on leaving the safety of my basement with it so dont need the battery or built in computer.
@@tomfoolery4077 I think considering the alternatives for MPE controllers like the Roli Seaboard RISE which costs $1600, the Push 3 could make sense just for the pads.
If you only use arrange view then yeah the Push is not worth it. The Push really shines for someone who composes in Session view and wants an MPC style device that has clean integration with their DAW. That said, Ableton continues to hint that they are adding arrange view to Push 3 so who knows what this device will look like in 6 months.
I don't think the standalone is a good proposition, but for me the push controller is a vastly better workflow than M&K+midi keyboard. Not in terms of arrangement and adding FX or mastering. But as far as getting ideas down quickly into session view it's so much easier. I use automations so much more during recording when the knobs are all labelled and on my playing surface vs the knobs on your average midi keyboard. It's really nice to have one device that I perform, sound design, and mix on. My performances start affecting my sound design and vice versa where I don't really have that "connection" when I do it when tweaking the values with a mouse then moving over to a midi keyboard. Anything that involves menu diving though, like adding new FX or instruments, I immediately go to mouse and KB. I've had my Push 2 for 7 years, I use it every day. It inspires me to fool around and make ideas in ways a M&K doesn't. I notice that when I produce with M&K I don't make as many sections in my song, and my patterns get more formulaic. Like duh, if you can only have one get a Macbook - but I don't think anyone is making that decision. If you have the money for a Push, you already have a good laptop.
Well, push 2 should get a firmware update with some of the new editing functions. This is where you see if they really support their stuff or just want to sell new
You mention there are no limitations in standalone mode, but there is actually a big one: no 3rd party VSTs plug-ins. Very few people are only using Ableton instruments, that's a big limitation.
Workflow is what i never found with push 1 or 2, it was like they hidden it and the push was just a pad controller with a nice screen. Cant say i see something revolutionary with this regarding the workflow and no arrengement. In some ways the hardware is hindering, buttons feel slugish and hard to press. Encoders on top of screen makes you cover the screen with your hands when used. And all sorts of other stuff that just made workflow for me tedious. But thats me.
That's totally fair. I've met plenty of people that Push just didn't gel with. Its by no means perfect and workflow is a very personal thing. Some people prefer clicking with a mouse and that's okay!
Thanks for this! Here's my thoughts based on 1h of playing with it today :) ----- Some quick 1st observations (Push3 controller version): * it's bigger, i.e. there's more space around encoders, i.d. say like 1.5-2 cm more * I remember the previous one was rubberized - this one isn't; it's just a black plastic but looks as good, if not better, although catches greasy fingers easily * I like the new buttons a lot - they're firmer & sturdier; the old ones felt as if my finger would eventually go "though" them; not the case here * it connects to the computer via USB-C cable (the small one) * it's very dim when not connected to power, just like the previous one * the pads feel great, although I'd prefer a black separation between them like in 1 or 2; they're very firm, barely move when pressed, but are very sensitive and doing the slides & stuff is awesome! * I'm not sold on the jog wheel yet - it's a hit or miss on when it works and when it doesn't, so it's a trial & error for now; probably will be fixed in further updates * one of the screws on the back fell out, but there's a lot of them so no problem 😃
My fingers did eventually go through my Push 2 play button so you weren't wrong. So glad this isn't the case anymore. Also re: the screw on the back. The pads are extremely sensitive to how tight the screws are on, I learned this when re-assembling my push 2. If they're even slightly tight you get stuck pads and random activations, too loose and it falls apart.
I was hoping USB-c would provide enough power to keep the screen bright this time around, disappointed you still need two cables. Thanks for mentioning that, I was curious about the brightness.
@@GuyGamer1 That's worrying. However I don't think this is the case with 3 anymore. Pads sit on top of battery slot. Theres also a lot of screws on the bottom (like 10+ or something) so a missing one on the edge hopefully isn't a problem. But I'll send the "bug" report to Ableton just in case. Thanks!
This idea that "you can't get in the flow of making music on a computer" is incredibly misleading and damaging to upcoming producers. It's simply not true. I have tons of hardware and an elaborate dawless setup, just for fun, but I definitely work faster with mouse + keyboard + a simple midi controller. That's it, that's all you need. Find a daw with good native plugins, master that daw, learn to play an instrument so you can record midi efficiently, so it all becomes intuitive, and that's all you really need. A small audio interface and a pair of headphones too, and you're done. After THAT look for 3rd party VSTs to complement your DAWs native plugin selection. Don't download tons of free plugins just because you can. Master one synth. Master one compressor. Then get more stuff once you cultivate the experience to know what tools you need. FYI the best producers in the world produce in a DAW. They spend most of the production process tinkering around on a computer. They can make music super fast using only mouse keyboard and a midi controller. That's how they do it. They can even do it on a laptop while they're flying for tour. The professionals don't make excuses as to why they don't feel inspired to work, or how they don't have the right tools. If you feel like you can't make music intuitively on a computer, just know that it's a YOU problem. And if you wanna get better at making music, you should address that problem by thinking outside the box(that's what creativity is all about in the first place) and NOT by buying thousands of dollars worth of gear, because some RUclipsr said you simply have to have it if you want the music making process to be intuitive. Absolute nonsense. What you need is to address the core problem, which is how you're inefficient at producing with the best tool there is(a DAW). None of these gears can even compete with a DAW, and guess what if a DAW is not good enough for you, if mouse and keyboard is not good enough for you, that means the problem is in how you approach making music. It's in your expectations of the music making process. Most of these gear reviewers are either paid to promote a product and/or the companies send it to them for free. And just to be clear, I'm not saying that ELPHNT is lying to you, in fact I think that this is a great review of Push 3. The point that I'm trying to make is nothing is stopping you from making great music with what you ALREADY HAVE, but your own prejudice when it comes to the process of making music. You don't need more gear. You just need to *get better.* That's the truth. And you can actually get better RIGHT NOW, without buying anything else, by embracing limitation and putting in the work with the tools that you already have. It's about making more music, not spending more money. That's the only way to get better at making music. That's how people become pros. And this is how people stay as amateur hobbyists. Which is fine if thats' what you're after. All I'm saying is if you're feeling stuck in your music journey, and you actually want to improve. buying more gear won't help you. It's only a matter of perspective.
Stellar overview! I'm waiting (not so patiently) for mine to ship in the next couple days. I am upgrading from the original Push and can't WAIT. It's going to feel like a revolution!
damn dude, skipping the Push and going to Push 3 you're gonna be blown away :) Can't wait to cop mine, might be a while though . Got my Push 2 for nwo though which is still a beast
The large jog wheel being only a 2D encoder (left, right) vs. a 4D encoder (left, right, up, down) is a total miss. They could've made the jog wheel a 4D encoder and removed the redundant 4-way arrows right below it (and maybe included more functionality in its stead.) It's strange to me that no reviewer mentions that as a major con since most modern jog wheels are 4D push encoders.
I think both P3 versions have outstanding features, but fot the first time i feel these many features have resulted in a slightly overloaded and kind of cluttered design, also workflow wise. Both P1 and P2 feel much "calmer" and clearcut to me, also more logical and straightforward. Maybe it's just me though, but if my workspace is too cluttered, i start to lose focus.
Nice demo video. I bought the Push2 about a year ago, great instrument. Am using for experimental music, so am developing custom interfaces for it in Max. Agree the LCD on the Push is an important bonus when coupled with the banks object in Max, but you only get that in standard mode. Push can colour it’s buttons - yes! But you can only colour them on user mode, and that only if you have one device in Live to get data from Push and another to send data to Push, it is not bidirectional. Different tuning scale, yes! But only in 12 equal temperament :( . So it’s back to imagining you are colour blind to ignore the colours it chooses in Standard mode, have the LCD feedback of knobs and be able to custom design microtuning. So the question, how well has Push3 gone on this front? Has it enabled bidirectional programming in Max for M4L devices that the user programs, can your own Max patches work on the Push3 in standalone mode?
This is still a work in progress. Max support in Standalone is not great right now, but I believe Ableton are working on that so hopefully we'll see some progress in some updates soon. As a fellow Max nerd, this is certainly something I'm eagerly awaiting!
As a Push 2 owner I really don't see anything worth while in the Push 3 besides the pads and the standlone version wich I personally don't care about. What I find is still lacking with the push is integration with the software. I know push focuses understandibly on the session view and that will always hinder its hability too work (at least for me) as a fully standolone music making device but there are alot of things ableton could be doing to improve the push and none involve the need for new hardware, hell even the push 1 could integrate these things with firmware update. 1) Being able to map m4l devices modulators like LFO similar to how modulation matrix works with wavetable - This alone would make the push more useful then if you gave me push 3 standlone if you could map modulation I could finally make loop based music like ambient, IDM, techno, etc just using the push. 2) Being able to make your own parameter banks for both native and 3rd party and choose the types of encoders for 3rd party plugins There are 3rd party scripts like preditor but are not very reliable and this just seems like an obvious feature that would greatly improve integration. 3) Make collaboration with 3rd party software companies so we could browse presets of 3rd party vsts with the push similar too how komplete kontrol works. I know people that have gone too the painstaking work of saving instment racks with each preset of 3rd party vsts but these are few and far between and the whole thing is awkward compared too komplete kontrol. 4) For some reason if you browse a plugin after you loaded it from favourites you wont go back to the presets list or to the favourites page it is in. These is a pet peeve but a massive frustration and workflow slowdown 5) Allow easy creation of subfolders in the favourites page. This is just ableton related not even push but yeha
I agree there is a lot more work to be done on the software side of things. What it seems to me like Ableton is trying to do here is to get their hardware to a place where it feels like a 'complete' base on which to build the software, without a need to update the hardware. While the new features on P3 are not a massive update from P2, they feel like they make the device more 'complete' so now Ableton can focus on the software/firmware and really go hard on that side of things. Of course this is totally conjecture from my side and I could be completely off. But I really do hope we see much more updates on the software side of what Push can do.
Don't understand the asking price for the plastic enclosure. M+ is way more premium for half the price, not to mention all the features and quality of sounds.
Just my two cents, I don't think the Push 2 (essentially exactly the same, without MPE) helped my workflow whatsover, it only slowed it down. I see the value of MPE on the Push 3 for sure. However, it is extremely fun, and that is sincerely valuable. It makes every Ableton synth feel like a hardware synth, session mode is fun for clients, and furthermore they are excited to be able to feel like they can make music with me, instead of watching me click, I put the Push near the couch for them to interact with.
Heavily debating selling the OP-1 Field for this. The size, battery life and no arrange view are real downsides for me, but damnn this thing is great otherwise. Hopefully battery upgrades become possible.. I'm also the kind of guy who would rather not have it, than have it with limited software, so I'd need to buy the Suite upgrade as well 😅 Looking forward to how this unit progresses over the next updates!
Hm, for now this thing is not for making music but tweaking of ready projects. It is for live performance more than for anything else. Screen is too small to make music as no arranger view. I'm surprised with limitations they make in this thing. For sure you can record your performance in session view and then somehow record it to arranger but still you can't arrange everything like you are working with computer. My conclusion is: if there is no bigger screen for arranger view - there won't be any arranger at all and this is no go for purchasing. It is not truly standalone thing to make music but sort of Dj deck.
@Techno Assassin does it have to be? They will open source the software for it next month. I have pusb1, push2 and the deluge. And the deluge is just better for mobile track designing. Push is a great live jam controller. But it lacks an arrangement view. And overall is less compact and simply not made for that purpose
@@youareliedtobythemedia Yeah exactly I also have both, and I only *rarely* use Push 2 in the production process. Maybe if I'm recording some hardware seqs and I want to record clips quickly, when I'm "transfering" hardware jams to the daw, but that's really it. Definitely not worth the price imo. Maybe for live performance, but not for production. Deluge is great for sketching full tracks. You can literally "produce" the track on deluge, and just do the editing and mixing and mastering on the computer. It lets you get away with lots of cool arrangement tricks, transitions, even sidechain, reverb and delay sends XD It's got everything to sketch out a track + the sequencing is super intuitive. And the latest update brought in a wavetable synth, euclidean sequencing, trig conditions etc etc. TLDR/ The Deluge is half the price of the standalone Push 3, and it's way better for making music
That's quite an in depth topic, but I'd highly recommend anything by Rachel Collier - she does a lot of stuff about live performance with Push: ruclips.net/video/5tiWwpJ7mBA/видео.html ruclips.net/video/6h47KS_tsSs/видео.html
ELPHNT - Is your unit your own or loaned for a review? Also, I accept that you got a great unit - looks great. But non-reviewers have posted Reddit photos of terrible build quality with buttons not even height. This is entirely unacceptable. Also, you can upgrade which is fantastic. However, only to a certain generation. Socket size will prevent people from putting in new hardware beyond a certain generation. How this will limit users (if at all) I can't say. I have a Push and the pads aren't good. The reviewer in Sound on Sound who loved Push 3 said it was great but the pads while better than before, were still not great. Not acceptable. I'd love to buy one and if I didn't like it return it, but I don't know how practical this is. I was on the verge of (still am) buying Akai "The Force" when Push 3 arrived. Thanks for a good video.
if its gonna pay for itself, get it, if not dont get it. Its a tool despite all the cute marketing the geniuses show you. Are you gonna get a soldering station? A new computer? A rice cooker?
the screen placement is odd to me though i haven't used it in person yet. having your hands obstruct the view while turning those knobs is one thing but also reaching over for something that you use a ton doesn't seem ergonomic
I'm no longer hyped about midi controller peripherals. Beyond midi-keys, mouse and keyboard, the rest feels like a revenue stream rather than essential tools. The DAW *is* the instrument.
I’m curious about the stability. How long can you play until it crashes or restarts? That’s always an issue with software, especially with larger sets.
Oats and banana's, probably drowned in vegan milk substitute. The best way to wreck your body. Don't eat cattle feed with sugar, people. Use your brain, while you still can.
Since i seem to be the only one talking about it, i have to repeat it everywhere: Ableton, please make this session view available in Ableton, too!!! Seeing Clip progress WITHIN each clip is awesome. So why only have that feature in external hardware? Dont tell me it s about unique selling points, it's disgraceful to forcefully cripple your software in order to sell hardware.
@@ELPHNT i've got my new push 3 and the mappings are not coming over, any advice, My main mapping are coming from a korg NanoKontro. Its showing up on the midi page of push. I haven't used the push 3 as a crontoler yet just standalone
No worries i figured it out - have to enable"remote" in midi menu on push 3 by first isolating the controller not just default track, sync, remote. If that make any sense, with the help of ableton support
Not 100% convinced about it. I mean, it"s a beautiful piece of gear, But the MPE won't change my music, the standalone feature is cool but at the end you will always use a computer to arrange tracks. And with Push 2, you could find ideas without looking the screen too. I have the push 2 (love it), and I'm not convinced about upgrading to push 3. The upgrade from Push 1 to Push 2 was awesome because the upgrade of the screen was huge. And I'm kind of sick seeing SO, SO MANY videos about it on RUclips.
Haha, yeah... there are a lot of these 😂 I would tend to agree - I think if you already have Push 2 there's not much that's new that's worth spending so much to upgrade for. Obviously if it's your first Push then that's a different story. Re: Stand-alone, I'm also not totally sold on how much of a benefit it is for studio use, but I've been able to take it out to jam sessions in the last few days and it's absolutely killer for a live setup, so I think that's where the stand-alone really shines. Obviously if that's not what you're doing then the tethered version is more than enough.
To both your points…this device has imo always been for live perf, but until standalone didn’t quite compete with the laptop. I tried perf love w/love for about six months w/push 2, mpc, mixer, cards, and Mac bundled up in a sweet flight case w/power. I had to bail since it just took to much effort to drag everything needed around and time to adjust/check etc. this solves some of those issues and really puts it at even w/a self contained instrument.
Yeah for 2k. I dont need it. I tried push 2 many years back and it did not gel with my workflow. I'm going to watch this space and see what ableton does in terms of updates. Standalone ableton is a kind of a loaded statement. Because most people use ableton with 3rd party plugins and having a push that only runs ableton devices feels half baked to me. If im reolacing my new macbook pro for this. I need to run pigments and tons of other plugins. I dont need to pay 2k to sketch something out only to go to my macbook pro later to add 3rd party plugins. It feels weird at 2k usd.
If you're a heavy plugin user Push is probably not for you. You'd be surprised by how many people only work with the built in Ableton devices though, so Push makes a lot of sense for them.
Yes! That definitely is a secondary benefit. Push 2 is still a super solid piece of gear and I believe Ableton will still be supporting it for a while.
I hope it can handle heat in the summer. Because it has no ventilator. How this processor is kept cool when a lot of plugins are loaded and it is summer.And can i install my license of live 11 suite? Because i guess it has already a lite version installed I think. Time to think over, has been sold out, wait 2-4 weeks.
I still find working with a mouse better and faster. I once bought a apsc 40 becauese i thought i need to „touch my mousic“ i was wrong and i never used it.
That's totally valid. I've worked with 100s of students over the years and for many of them, working with a computer is hugely uninspiring so Push is great, but for many others they just prefer working with a mouse and keyboard. To each their own!
Interesting point you make. Strangely (I have a Push, not P-3) and I had to play a Hammond organ line into Live. I have a good ear and understand theory and could easily have programmed the line in or step sequenced it in. But I played it on Push - and considering how bad the pads were (my trainer told me later how to make the pads better) it was a lot of work. But it sounded far better. Everything that I played on Push sounded better than mousing it in. I don't know if that's my generation where we played instruments for years before DAWs came along... but the difference is night and day. But you can plug any controller in not just one made by Ableton...
Its got the 2 physical ins and 4 physical outs (incl the headphone output), 8 ADAT ins and outs and the 4 available channels of CV count as both 4 ins and outs. That gets you 16 out and 14 in and I have absolutely no idea where the other 2 ins comes from 🤷♂
This is the kind of stuff a confirmed artist need. I make music, but am I really a confirmed artist that know what he actually does ? No, not really, so yeah, sure it’s a hell of a machine, but in hands of amateurs like me ? Not useful at all, still very good but it’s gonna be simply unexploited potential
Hey, well done for the fascinating video.. I wanted to ask you, if I'm just starting out and want to produce house music in Ableton, can Ableton Push alone provide an answer for this without a midi keyboard? Also, is it even better than a midi keyboard if I don't know chords?
Yes, definitely. Push is excellent for 'on the grid' music like House. The built-in step sequencers are perfect for programming drums. And if you're not strong with music theory, the pad grid makes life pretty easy 'cause you can just set it to be in key and then pretty much play anything! Be aware that, if you're just starting out, there will be a learning curve, but I think Push can help a lot with that by making many of the parts of the music-making process more immediate and hands-on.
In my experience the brightness is the same with or without power connected, but I've only tried the Standalone version with a battery, so that probably makes a difference. Can't speak for the non-Standalone version unfortunately.
I'm curious what kind of arrangement view functionally people are hoping for. I don't really see how the Push could help with arrangement mode. Or is there a midi controller that can be used in AV already?
Looppop did a test and it does seem like Push 3 can play from the arrangement of a set even though you can't access it so it could be a future update. But -- Isn't that basically what a laptop is for? For me at least in arrangement view at that point having a big screen + mouse + keyboard is a benefit.
@@ELPHNT DEFINITELY want one! It’s hysterically priced but as an Ableton user the features and layout of the 3 finally make me want to get into the hardware ecosystem. And by that of course I mean add it to my ever growing wish list of gear hahaha!
They removed that a few years into the production run of Push 2. I had that problem and got mine replaced nearly for free. That coating was horrible. I'm quite sure its not on the 3.
@@ELPHNT Yeah, it gets really gross, it drove me insane. Turns out that all types of rubber degrade over time, but some types get this sticky feeling. Worse yet, there is nothing you can do to fix it or even mitigate it. A huge screw-up by Ableton. Mine was years out of warranty, but they offered me a trade in deal. Mixed feelings about that, as it was clearly a manufacturing mistake, but I still had to pay to get a new one. But the new one does not have the coating so to me it was worth it in the end. That rubber feeling is awful. Makes you grab your mouse and keyboard;)
I’ve seen a lot of people talking about updates that would be great and “for now it can’t” on every video. Has the push 3 actually gotten any firmware updates??
Yup, its had a couple new things added since launch. Mostly relatively minor at this stage, but I think its due for a biggish update with new Live 12 stuff.
I haven't tested whether they would run or not (I think they would), but even if they do, quite a lot of the magic of those devices comes from very custom, mouse-based interactions that you couldn't replicate on Push.
As someone who works an industrial job I’m not put off by being in front of a pc after work. I have a comfy studio room so the entire appeal of the push 3s portability is nothing important to me
Can you load 3rd party vst3 plugins ? Omnisphere ? external hard drive with all your plugins , samples etc ? external monitor , to view ableton live ? i'm sure we will see upgraded mod kits soon , so maybe i will just buy the hollow push 3 , wait for the new mod kits so i won't be so pissed off when that happens ,lol !
No 3rd party plugin support right now, although you can transfer sessions from your computer that use plugins as long as the track is frozen. Obviously the biggest issue here is how to deal with the GUI with no dedicated screen. We'll have to see if that gets addressed in the future...
Hi, thanks for the Video. Can you please test this for me? Does CV TOOL now support Delay Compensation? I ask Ableton for this 3 years ago here. L10-SUG-3751. They answer me with: Indeed this is not a bug but rather the absence of Delay Compensation for CV Tool and it is expected.
Packs from the official Ableton shop can be installed right from the device, but you could also install 3rd party packs via the Continuity feature - dragging and dropping files from your computer.
Can you still use 3rd party synths and effects in standalone mode? I feel standalone mode will be pointless for a lot of people if this is not possible, but an absolute game changer if it is.
No third party plugins!! Personally I find the stock instruments a bit weak sounding but maybe it’s a good machine to sketch and then do more in depth original sound design with a computer.
This and the lack of arranger view are the main reasons I ordered the controller version. I hope they do this though as it would be a game changer to fully be untethered from my laptop!
No 3rd party plugins. There's a full on computer inside (running Linux) so in theory there should be no issue running plugins that support Linux, the main issue is really just how to handle the plugin's interface. Like, how the heck would one manage a Kontakt patch on here, for example. I personally don't use many 3rd party devices and think the built in stuff is pretty excellent, so that's not an issue for me, but if it is then I'd stick with the control version.
Amazing video, this product would be near perfect if they increased the quantization to more than 32 regarding the note repeat & if there was an arrangement view. The Akai Force in which seemed to model the Push even has an arrangement view! 👊🏽✊🏽💪🏽⚡🔥💥💫✨
@elphnt would you be able to do something on the Max for Live integration/its limitations? Curious to see how classics like LFO, Granulator II, and Conv Reverb Pro work on this
Not great so far with Max For Live. Its hit and miss whether devices do or don't work (even the official Ableton ones) and things like LFO are impossible to use in Standalone 'cause there's no way to map them. I have heard a lot from Ableton about how this is going to be addressed, so hopefully we see that sorted with some updates soon.
@@ELPHNT good to know! yeah the inability to change samples on granulator II is basically a dealbreaker for me, i wonder if they can work on that in future updates
can it still play well in project over 1 hour long? Or sets or how does this work? Lets say I want ot play 3 hours pre-made with some improvised parts... Is this possible? Won't the CPU run out? Won't there be pauzes between switching songs? can anyone give an answer to this? Making a song is nothing, playing hours long is another thing..
@@i_make_beats Don't get me wrong... in my case I didn't go for the standalone version either... too expensive and new, but the fact that the pure driver version is upgradable at any time made it even more attractive. Also after several years of enjoying push 2, I sold it as part of the payment for the new one. I consider that with all the workflow improvements it integrates and the quality of finish, it will be a good investment for several years.
And then i fished out my Push 2, to find both it and the push 1 are a gummy rubberized mess. No one has so far mentioned the surface finish. Is it the same TPE rubber surface used on the Push 1 and the Push 2, or will Ableton learn from its mistakes to offer this instrument without that awful surface treatment?
Nope, no gross stickiness on this one! 🙌 I'm not actually sure what the material is (I think its a hard plastic 🤷♂️) but it feels much nicer than the previous Push. Obviously haven't had it for that long so can't say how it will age, but it definitely feels much better.
What about plug in support. Can I create a track with guitar rig on it and play my guitar? What if I start on the computer and have a track with a plug in on it. Is the track still playable in standalone mode?
@@ELPHNT Thanks so much 🙏 So, say I had an Elektron box for example, could I use that to sequence scene1, then scene2, the back to scene1, then on to scene3? Like, could I use another sequencer to string scenes together so that I don't have to launch them manually?
Don't have much experience with the Elektron stuff unfortunately. If it can work as a Control Surface then it should be fine, but if not then you're probably out of luck, 'cause AFAIK, only Control Surfaces will be able to launch Clips and Scenes.
Any decent online or IRL music store will have them. Your best one will depend on where you're based (i.e. Sweetwater for the US, Thomann is pretty good for Europe).
@@ELPHNT Thanks,Ableton told me they are in their shop but they are not, do you not what cables you need to get for the P3 Midi i/o and the CV Outs, and how do you get 4 cv signals out of one mono audiocable?
@@lab-by-the-sea It really depends on what kind of gear you're trying to connect. Something like this is what you need for MIDI: www.amazon.co.uk/MIDI-Adapter-Breakout-Cable-Female/dp/B0797SG8RS/ref=sr_1_21?keywords=mini+jack+to+midi+cable&qid=1685285489&s=musical-instruments&sprefix=mini+jack+to+midi%2Cmi%2C65&sr=1-21 And something like this is what you need as a CV splitter: www.amazon.co.uk/Tisino-Stereo-Y-Splitter-Return-Insert/dp/B07K59P692
Hi! Thanks for the video. I have a question, How does Push 3 handles latency? Now that the interface is in the unit, I guess Ableton had taken care of it. I’m wondering how would it be with external gear, let’s say I will have all my synths by adat ( is it usb c capable of usb audio?) then monitor should be in auto in order the hear what I’m recording . Will external instrument devices take care of latency? Thank for helping the community
The built in interface works just like any other interface and you'll need to configure the Buffer Size accordingly to deal with latency. Standalone Mode has an Audio settings page that lets you set this.
@@ELPHNT ah ok! Thanks for answering. I was hopping that with the push 3 stand alone everything will be smoother than with the computer. Appreciate your info! 👌🏻
Until they solve the problem of arranging on Push and allow VST integration, this isn't for me. I t is just an expensive idea generator which you can pretty much do on push 2. It looks nice though but not $2000 nice. A bit OTT (see what I did there?)
Good points but consider the size of the screen, dude. How do you think arrangement view would look or work on a screen this small? Maybe it would work. Disclaimer - I own a Push, so I have no skin in the game either way.
Is there a review with push 2 and push 3 side by side? This review is as much about the latest Ableton 11.3 as it is about the Push 3. 2hrs battery means its will also certainly be tethered to a mains charger, and if that's the case it may as well be tethered to a laptop. You really want the battery life of a iPad for this to be viable. Speaking of which, Ableton Live on an ipad pro wouldn't be a bad bit of gear, with an MPE surface in support of that.
The actual hardware is definitely a really nice improvement to Push 2. I'd say it almost the same leap in quality as it was from Push 1 to 2. Everything just feels better - the pads, buttons, screen, etc. And ofc, MPE. Going back to Push 2 just feels like a downgrade 🤣 I personally never found the 2hrs of battery life limiting for what I've used it for in Standalone (sketching stuff on the couch, or around the house) and its really not a huge headache to charge up.
It’s extremely rare in any professional music setting that there isn’t a mains to plug into. So the battery life is a non issue. A laptop or an iPad running a DAW, powering controllers and an interface wont have much more battery power either. It’s enough to get most through a show or a jam session if necessary. The whole idea of stand-alone operation is to get away from all that extra equipment, taking up more space, adding weight and things to get broken or lost.
I don't know, it just feels like swapping a screen for… another screen? Also as I use a lot of VSTs and M4L devices it doesn't seem like it'd cover that very well.
It certainly is just swapping one screen for another (I mention that in the video) but it makes a big difference having a screen that is dedicated to one thing. If I'm totally honest, if I could have a version of Push that was just the screen and encoders that would be INCREDIBLE. The focused screen really is Push's best feature IMO. And yes, the VST and Max support isn't great. If you make use of a lot of those, Push is probably not suited for your workflow.
I'm not actually sure - feels like metal, but could also be a hard plastic. Either way it's miles better than Push 2 and doesn't have the same 'stickiness' issues.
Ableton Push 3 is basically... Ableton's VST in the box for 2 grands. Dunno if someone who already have a laptop and Ableton will need it that badly to spend another couple of grands for this. If it was compact or at least had some analog circuit in it, then yes. Now it's just another laptop with VSTs and samples. Sorry guys, this is the way i see it. Maybe i'm wrong.
People spend $1000s on standalone hardware like MPCs, etc, just because of the workflow. For some people, even running exactly the same software as you do on your computer, just having a dedicated music making device can be pretty powerful. I agree the price tag is pretty steep and its definitely not for everyone, but overall I think Ableton have done a really good job of creating a piece of hardware that is fun to use and will only get better over time.
@@ELPHNTi'm a fan of grooveboxes but a)they are compact b) usually sound better than stock Ableton vst. Push 3 have none of them benefits and ask for 2 grands... Not knocking on a device tho, VST in a box is a good idea ( i wish Tone 2 made one also), Thanks man, sub from me!
@@djkanyon agree, it the effect of implicit exclusivity of technology vs social class....indeed, horrible sign of ..... the days of underground culture has been destroyed ( since the early 2000)
![Thoughts on Live Performances [Ableton Push 3 Standalone - Model1 - Octawave ]](/img/1.gif)
EDIT:
I totally neglected to mention anything about how Push handles 3rd party plugins like VSTs, AUs, etc. (my bad 😅) and there have been a lot of questions about that!
In Control mode, plugins run on your computer as normal and you can control them from Push in the same way you could with any MIDI controller.
In Standalone mode, Push does not yet support 3rd party plugins. You can create sets on your computer that use plugins then transfer them over to Push, as long as that tracks with plugins on them are frozen. The biggest issue here is not support for 3rd party plugins but rather how to handle the complex interfaces of plugins in a way that makes sense. Push is really engineered to work well with Live's built in instruments and effects, so if you're a Push user its a good idea to get familiar with those.
Hope that clears everything up!
You wrote "Push does not yet support"... but i m not sure if it ever will. At least i didnt read anything about that by Ableton. The only thing i could imagine is some hacked Push, inofficially supporting plugins :) I also think it's much more about efficiancy/cpu/RAM power than the interface. A i3 with almost no RAM crumbles with some instances of Omnisphere, Keyscape, etc. The interface problem would be easily solvable, by first creating your liveset on PC/MAC, as you dont even need to see the plugin windows after the plugin parameters have been assigned to Ableton device knobs.
I get that for some plugins, this wouldn't work or would be very jank, but many plugins expose all of their automatable parameters in a specific list to their host (usually a DAW). Some plugins like Airwindows' creations exclusively do this, with no actual interface. IMO Push 3 should support being able to load in & control plugins exclusively through these parameters in pageable lists. It won't be as spiffy as the plugin's actual interface, and may outright not work for some plugins, but it would at least be an option.
@@made.online2149 I'm sure we'll see plugin support from Ableton at some point.
with sandbox feature like Bitwig...
@@ELPHNTThat is extremely unlikely. Plugins are developed for an operating system (windows, MacOS). Push 3 has its own proprietary OS. Developers will not release versions for that.
Your attention to what matters to people who make music is a breath of fresh air. Everyone loves shiny gear, but workflow is what matters.
Thanks! I really wanted to do something different with this one - less focus on the gear itself and more on what the gear can help you to do. Glad that comes across 😃
In standalone (it's a non exhaustive list of what you can't do):
- for now impossible to copy/paste multiple notes in edit clip mode. i mean we have a jogwheel to select multiple notes, so we can delete them, change position, nudge, change pitch, velocity, vel range and probability but we cannot simply copy and past them in another position. i mean Ctrl C, Ctrl V is the most basic and useful opération in edition that you can do...
- for now we can't access to the groovepool, clip behaviour etc etc....
- for now we can't use some max devices such as sequencers
- for now you can't map the destination of the LFO effect (is it even possible to not be able to do that?!?) so to be clear it's just useless to add an LFO in standalone mode.
to me no arrangement mode is not so bad, i'll have to learn how to use ableton in a different way, maybe it can bring some creativity but this can't do list is just
i was a push 2 user and for me after one or two weeks using the push 3 in standalone i think it's just super expensive for what it is.
maybe they will make an update soon but now, you can't even scratch the surface of Ableton with that device in standalone mode.
VERY, VERY VALUABLE INSIGHT....THANK YOU...
Look, here's the thing - this new device might promise 'flow', but in reality it's not for everyone: it's introducing a totally different and, in my opinion, more cumbersome workflow for people like me.
I only use ableton for composing and producing, I never perform Live, I only use the arrange view. For me it's like taking a step back to the era of the flip phones and navigating endless menus on small screens with limited input interface. It's a world apart from what we're used to, and even if it was better (which it's not), just the time it'd take to get used to it makes it counterproductive.
I personally bailed on my Push 2 after just two weeks because I couldn't deal with it.
Now, consider the alternative to run Ableton on the go.....a MacBook. Same price range, same portability, yet a universe apart in terms of user experience. It offers full functionality, full interface, a crisp and larger screen, better battery life, and a more robust processor. Plus, once you're done with Ableton, you're left with a fully functioning MacBook.
The fact is, unless you're performing live regularly with the Push 3, I firmly believe that a MIDI instrument plugged into a computer is the way to go. It's faster, simpler, and more straightforward.
The Push 3 isn't far off from a MacBook in terms of price, that's why I compared them. Unless you've got a very specific requirement or cash to throw around, I'd say stick with your mouse and keyboard. Especially if you're already comfortable with that workflow.
Agreed, the Push workflow only caters to a specific target audience. I really like the new MPE pads though, but I'm not sure if it's worth the price and desk space to get a Push 3 just for the pads.
@@imcubix Im similar where the MPE looks like such an amazing creative tactile experience that im debating getting one. I had a used Push2, it had some issues so brought it in to get sent for repair, then found out that the retailer no longer sells or supports Ableton products, so I got my money back, $600 CDN, so thinking of saving up a for a bit and putting it towards the non-standalone version as I never plan on leaving the safety of my basement with it so dont need the battery or built in computer.
@@tomfoolery4077 I think considering the alternatives for MPE controllers like the Roli Seaboard RISE which costs $1600, the Push 3 could make sense just for the pads.
If you only use arrange view then yeah the Push is not worth it. The Push really shines for someone who composes in Session view and wants an MPC style device that has clean integration with their DAW. That said, Ableton continues to hint that they are adding arrange view to Push 3 so who knows what this device will look like in 6 months.
I don't think the standalone is a good proposition, but for me the push controller is a vastly better workflow than M&K+midi keyboard. Not in terms of arrangement and adding FX or mastering. But as far as getting ideas down quickly into session view it's so much easier. I use automations so much more during recording when the knobs are all labelled and on my playing surface vs the knobs on your average midi keyboard. It's really nice to have one device that I perform, sound design, and mix on. My performances start affecting my sound design and vice versa where I don't really have that "connection" when I do it when tweaking the values with a mouse then moving over to a midi keyboard. Anything that involves menu diving though, like adding new FX or instruments, I immediately go to mouse and KB.
I've had my Push 2 for 7 years, I use it every day. It inspires me to fool around and make ideas in ways a M&K doesn't. I notice that when I produce with M&K I don't make as many sections in my song, and my patterns get more formulaic.
Like duh, if you can only have one get a Macbook - but I don't think anyone is making that decision. If you have the money for a Push, you already have a good laptop.
Well, push 2 should get a firmware update with some of the new editing functions. This is where you see if they really support their stuff or just want to sell new
I believe it will. Ableton have said they will continue to support the Push 2, so I'd expect it will still get updates for a good while.
You mention there are no limitations in standalone mode, but there is actually a big one: no 3rd party VSTs plug-ins. Very few people are only using Ableton instruments, that's a big limitation.
Good point! I definitely realised a little too late that I totally forgot to mention that one 😅
@@ELPHNT It was a really well done review overall. I enjoyed it.
Workflow is what i never found with push 1 or 2, it was like they hidden it and the push was just a pad controller with a nice screen. Cant say i see something revolutionary with this regarding the workflow and no arrengement. In some ways the hardware is hindering, buttons feel slugish and hard to press. Encoders on top of screen makes you cover the screen with your hands when used. And all sorts of other stuff that just made workflow for me tedious. But thats me.
That's totally fair. I've met plenty of people that Push just didn't gel with. Its by no means perfect and workflow is a very personal thing. Some people prefer clicking with a mouse and that's okay!
I feel the same way. I choose Maschine Plus over Push, just because I find the workflow is so much smoother.
Thanks for this!
Here's my thoughts based on 1h of playing with it today :)
-----
Some quick 1st observations (Push3 controller version):
* it's bigger, i.e. there's more space around encoders, i.d. say like 1.5-2 cm more
* I remember the previous one was rubberized - this one isn't; it's just a black plastic but looks as good, if not better, although catches greasy fingers easily
* I like the new buttons a lot - they're firmer & sturdier; the old ones felt as if my finger would eventually go "though" them; not the case here
* it connects to the computer via USB-C cable (the small one)
* it's very dim when not connected to power, just like the previous one
* the pads feel great, although I'd prefer a black separation between them like in 1 or 2; they're very firm, barely move when pressed, but are very sensitive and doing the slides & stuff is awesome!
* I'm not sold on the jog wheel yet - it's a hit or miss on when it works and when it doesn't, so it's a trial & error for now; probably will be fixed in further updates
* one of the screws on the back fell out, but there's a lot of them so no problem 😃
My fingers did eventually go through my Push 2 play button so you weren't wrong. So glad this isn't the case anymore.
Also re: the screw on the back. The pads are extremely sensitive to how tight the screws are on, I learned this when re-assembling my push 2. If they're even slightly tight you get stuck pads and random activations, too loose and it falls apart.
I was hoping USB-c would provide enough power to keep the screen bright this time around, disappointed you still need two cables. Thanks for mentioning that, I was curious about the brightness.
@@GuyGamer1 That's worrying. However I don't think this is the case with 3 anymore. Pads sit on top of battery slot. Theres also a lot of screws on the bottom (like 10+ or something) so a missing one on the edge hopefully isn't a problem. But I'll send the "bug" report to Ableton just in case. Thanks!
I have the original Push but ordered this immediately as an Ableton user it’s a no brainer in the current market
As a push2 user i'm always use my mouse for specific things like samples editing or vst tweaking .
oh god push3 turned out so much better then i ever expected
This idea that "you can't get in the flow of making music on a computer" is incredibly misleading and damaging to upcoming producers. It's simply not true. I have tons of hardware and an elaborate dawless setup, just for fun, but I definitely work faster with mouse + keyboard + a simple midi controller. That's it, that's all you need. Find a daw with good native plugins, master that daw, learn to play an instrument so you can record midi efficiently, so it all becomes intuitive, and that's all you really need. A small audio interface and a pair of headphones too, and you're done. After THAT look for 3rd party VSTs to complement your DAWs native plugin selection. Don't download tons of free plugins just because you can. Master one synth. Master one compressor. Then get more stuff once you cultivate the experience to know what tools you need.
FYI the best producers in the world produce in a DAW. They spend most of the production process tinkering around on a computer. They can make music super fast using only mouse keyboard and a midi controller. That's how they do it. They can even do it on a laptop while they're flying for tour. The professionals don't make excuses as to why they don't feel inspired to work, or how they don't have the right tools.
If you feel like you can't make music intuitively on a computer, just know that it's a YOU problem. And if you wanna get better at making music, you should address that problem by thinking outside the box(that's what creativity is all about in the first place) and NOT by buying thousands of dollars worth of gear, because some RUclipsr said you simply have to have it if you want the music making process to be intuitive. Absolute nonsense. What you need is to address the core problem, which is how you're inefficient at producing with the best tool there is(a DAW). None of these gears can even compete with a DAW, and guess what if a DAW is not good enough for you, if mouse and keyboard is not good enough for you, that means the problem is in how you approach making music. It's in your expectations of the music making process.
Most of these gear reviewers are either paid to promote a product and/or the companies send it to them for free. And just to be clear, I'm not saying that ELPHNT is lying to you, in fact I think that this is a great review of Push 3. The point that I'm trying to make is nothing is stopping you from making great music with what you ALREADY HAVE, but your own prejudice when it comes to the process of making music. You don't need more gear. You just need to *get better.* That's the truth. And you can actually get better RIGHT NOW, without buying anything else, by embracing limitation and putting in the work with the tools that you already have.
It's about making more music, not spending more money. That's the only way to get better at making music. That's how people become pros. And this is how people stay as amateur hobbyists. Which is fine if thats' what you're after. All I'm saying is if you're feeling stuck in your music journey, and you actually want to improve. buying more gear won't help you. It's only a matter of perspective.
Amen!
true af
Stellar overview! I'm waiting (not so patiently) for mine to ship in the next couple days. I am upgrading from the original Push and can't WAIT. It's going to feel like a revolution!
damn dude, skipping the Push and going to Push 3 you're gonna be blown away :) Can't wait to cop mine, might be a while though . Got my Push 2 for nwo though which is still a beast
Wowzers. Going from Push 1 to 3 is gonna be awesome 😃 Excited for you!
Far and away the best Push 3 video so far. Mine is still on pre-order, and I got a linnstrument 200 to go with it. I'm full in on MPE
The large jog wheel being only a 2D encoder (left, right) vs. a 4D encoder (left, right, up, down) is a total miss. They could've made the jog wheel a 4D encoder and removed the redundant 4-way arrows right below it (and maybe included more functionality in its stead.) It's strange to me that no reviewer mentions that as a major con since most modern jog wheels are 4D push encoders.
Agree, I even think a mini xy/mouse could have opened up arrangement potential
Also the huge mod strip is basically a waste of space too
mouse xy would be killer with a Touchscreen..
I think both P3 versions have outstanding features, but fot the first time i feel these many features have resulted in a slightly overloaded and kind of cluttered design, also workflow wise. Both P1 and P2 feel much "calmer" and clearcut to me, also more logical and straightforward. Maybe it's just me though, but if my workspace is too cluttered, i start to lose focus.
Nice demo video. I bought the Push2 about a year ago, great instrument. Am using for experimental music, so am developing custom interfaces for it in Max. Agree the LCD on the Push is an important bonus when coupled with the banks object in Max, but you only get that in standard mode. Push can colour it’s buttons - yes! But you can only colour them on user mode, and that only if you have one device in Live to get data from Push and another to send data to Push, it is not bidirectional. Different tuning scale, yes! But only in 12 equal temperament :( . So it’s back to imagining you are colour blind to ignore the colours it chooses in Standard mode, have the LCD feedback of knobs and be able to custom design microtuning. So the question, how well has Push3 gone on this front? Has it enabled bidirectional programming in Max for M4L devices that the user programs, can your own Max patches work on the Push3 in standalone mode?
This is still a work in progress. Max support in Standalone is not great right now, but I believe Ableton are working on that so hopefully we'll see some progress in some updates soon. As a fellow Max nerd, this is certainly something I'm eagerly awaiting!
As a Push 2 owner I really don't see anything worth while in the Push 3 besides the pads and the standlone version wich I personally don't care about. What I find is still lacking with the push is integration with the software.
I know push focuses understandibly on the session view and that will always hinder its hability too work (at least for me) as a fully standolone music making device but there are alot of things ableton could be doing to improve the push and none involve the need for new hardware, hell even the push 1 could integrate these things with firmware update.
1) Being able to map m4l devices modulators like LFO similar to how modulation matrix works with wavetable -
This alone would make the push more useful then if you gave me push 3 standlone if you could map modulation I could finally make loop based music like ambient, IDM, techno, etc just using the push.
2) Being able to make your own parameter banks for both native and 3rd party and choose the types of encoders for 3rd party plugins
There are 3rd party scripts like preditor but are not very reliable and this just seems like an obvious feature that would greatly improve integration.
3) Make collaboration with 3rd party software companies so we could browse presets of 3rd party vsts with the push similar too how komplete kontrol works.
I know people that have gone too the painstaking work of saving instment racks with each preset of 3rd party vsts but these are few and far between and the whole thing is awkward compared too komplete kontrol.
4) For some reason if you browse a plugin after you loaded it from favourites you wont go back to the presets list or to the favourites page it is in. These is a pet peeve but a massive frustration and workflow slowdown
5) Allow easy creation of subfolders in the favourites page. This is just ableton related not even push but yeha
I agree there is a lot more work to be done on the software side of things.
What it seems to me like Ableton is trying to do here is to get their hardware to a place where it feels like a 'complete' base on which to build the software, without a need to update the hardware.
While the new features on P3 are not a massive update from P2, they feel like they make the device more 'complete' so now Ableton can focus on the software/firmware and really go hard on that side of things.
Of course this is totally conjecture from my side and I could be completely off. But I really do hope we see much more updates on the software side of what Push can do.
> besides the pads . The pads are a pretty big change. But. you are right that the foundation is basically Push 2.
Don't understand the asking price for the plastic enclosure. M+ is way more premium for half the price, not to mention all the features and quality of sounds.
great demo Tom!
Thanks Sean! ❤️
great review, thank you. REally excited about Push 3!
Thanks Tom. Can’t wait to get my hands on one.
I bet you'll love it 😃
Just my two cents, I don't think the Push 2 (essentially exactly the same, without MPE) helped my workflow whatsover, it only slowed it down. I see the value of MPE on the Push 3 for sure.
However, it is extremely fun, and that is sincerely valuable. It makes every Ableton synth feel like a hardware synth, session mode is fun for clients, and furthermore they are excited to be able to feel like they can make music with me, instead of watching me click, I put the Push near the couch for them to interact with.
It would be amazing to have Ableton full version on a push device with a screen big enough to see the fullness of live.
Yea like mpc x
Or monitor support rt
@ItsWesSmithYo kind of, but more stand alone with a dedicated gpu to use live full standalone.
Nice! You are back
Great Video! Editing on point!
Sure. I'll get it.
As soon as I can afford it. 😂
Great video ! Your video is the only one that mentions the Push in standalone can act as an audio interface with the computer.
Heavily debating selling the OP-1 Field for this. The size, battery life and no arrange view are real downsides for me, but damnn this thing is great otherwise. Hopefully battery upgrades become possible.. I'm also the kind of guy who would rather not have it, than have it with limited software, so I'd need to buy the Suite upgrade as well 😅 Looking forward to how this unit progresses over the next updates!
Buy a Deluge instead for half the price. You can thank me later ;-)
Yeah buy the deluge, it's much better for this use case
Hm, for now this thing is not for making music but tweaking of ready projects. It is for live performance more than for anything else. Screen is too small to make music as no arranger view. I'm surprised with limitations they make in this thing. For sure you can record your performance in session view and then somehow record it to arranger but still you can't arrange everything like you are working with computer. My conclusion is: if there is no bigger screen for arranger view - there won't be any arranger at all and this is no go for purchasing. It is not truly standalone thing to make music but sort of Dj deck.
@Techno Assassin does it have to be? They will open source the software for it next month.
I have pusb1, push2 and the deluge. And the deluge is just better for mobile track designing. Push is a great live jam controller. But it lacks an arrangement view. And overall is less compact and simply not made for that purpose
@@youareliedtobythemedia Yeah exactly I also have both, and I only *rarely* use Push 2 in the production process. Maybe if I'm recording some hardware seqs and I want to record clips quickly, when I'm "transfering" hardware jams to the daw, but that's really it. Definitely not worth the price imo. Maybe for live performance, but not for production.
Deluge is great for sketching full tracks. You can literally "produce" the track on deluge, and just do the editing and mixing and mastering on the computer. It lets you get away with lots of cool arrangement tricks, transitions, even sidechain, reverb and delay sends XD It's got everything to sketch out a track + the sequencing is super intuitive. And the latest update brought in a wavetable synth, euclidean sequencing, trig conditions etc etc.
TLDR/ The Deluge is half the price of the standalone Push 3, and it's way better for making music
Thanks man. Would like to know more about performing a Live Set with Push. How do you make and perform it?
That's quite an in depth topic, but I'd highly recommend anything by Rachel Collier - she does a lot of stuff about live performance with Push:
ruclips.net/video/5tiWwpJ7mBA/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/6h47KS_tsSs/видео.html
ELPHNT - Is your unit your own or loaned for a review? Also, I accept that you got a great unit - looks great. But non-reviewers have posted Reddit photos of terrible build quality with buttons not even height. This is entirely unacceptable.
Also, you can upgrade which is fantastic. However, only to a certain generation. Socket size will prevent people from putting in new hardware beyond a certain generation. How this will limit users (if at all) I can't say.
I have a Push and the pads aren't good. The reviewer in Sound on Sound who loved Push 3 said it was great but the pads while better than before, were still not great. Not acceptable.
I'd love to buy one and if I didn't like it return it, but I don't know how practical this is. I was on the verge of (still am) buying Akai "The Force" when Push 3 arrived.
Thanks for a good video.
Got a used push 2 recently and loving it, for anyone looking not to spend huge bucks
If your tracks are garbage, buying a push won’t change that. It might help you make garbage quicker and in a cooler way though.
the pads alone. superb evolution.
I’m waiting for Push 5.
You’ll be waiting for 30 years
@@curtisthacreator2231 Whoooooosh! That’s the sound of my point going right over your head.
if its gonna pay for itself, get it, if not dont get it. Its a tool despite all the cute marketing the geniuses show you. Are you gonna get a soldering station? A new computer? A rice cooker?
the screen placement is odd to me though i haven't used it in person yet. having your hands obstruct the view while turning those knobs is one thing but also reaching over for something that you use a ton doesn't seem ergonomic
Took me a day to decide I wanted the non standalone first. Seems like it was too long, its out of stock in canada
The elphnt has raised his trunk 🐘
best video I have seen so far on this device! 🔥🔥
🙌
I'm no longer hyped about midi controller peripherals. Beyond midi-keys, mouse and keyboard, the rest feels like a revenue stream rather than essential tools. The DAW *is* the instrument.
I’m curious about the stability. How long can you play until it crashes or restarts? That’s always an issue with software, especially with larger sets.
The oats though! yes!
Oats and banana's, probably drowned in vegan milk substitute. The best way to wreck your body. Don't eat cattle feed with sugar, people. Use your brain, while you still can.
Well if you say so.
Preordered a standalone.
Since i seem to be the only one talking about it, i have to repeat it everywhere: Ableton, please make this session view available in Ableton, too!!! Seeing Clip progress WITHIN each clip is awesome. So why only have that feature in external hardware? Dont tell me it s about unique selling points, it's disgraceful to forcefully cripple your software in order to sell hardware.
hi excellent video. Can you bring custom midi mappings to controllers over to the standalone mode?
Thanks! Yes - any mappings you set up in Live will be transferred over when you send the set to Standalone.
@@ELPHNT i've got my new push 3 and the mappings are not coming over, any advice, My main mapping are coming from a korg NanoKontro. Its showing up on the midi page of push. I haven't used the push 3 as a crontoler yet just standalone
No worries i figured it out - have to enable"remote" in midi menu on push 3 by first isolating the controller not just default track, sync, remote. If that make any sense, with the help of ableton support
@@cherogersvideo 1. Stoked you got your new Push! 🙌 2. Glad you got that sorted 💪
Not 100% convinced about it. I mean, it"s a beautiful piece of gear, But the MPE won't change my music, the standalone feature is cool but at the end you will always use a computer to arrange tracks. And with Push 2, you could find ideas without looking the screen too. I have the push 2 (love it), and I'm not convinced about upgrading to push 3.
The upgrade from Push 1 to Push 2 was awesome because the upgrade of the screen was huge.
And I'm kind of sick seeing SO, SO MANY videos about it on RUclips.
Haha, yeah... there are a lot of these 😂
I would tend to agree - I think if you already have Push 2 there's not much that's new that's worth spending so much to upgrade for. Obviously if it's your first Push then that's a different story.
Re: Stand-alone, I'm also not totally sold on how much of a benefit it is for studio use, but I've been able to take it out to jam sessions in the last few days and it's absolutely killer for a live setup, so I think that's where the stand-alone really shines. Obviously if that's not what you're doing then the tethered version is more than enough.
To both your points…this device has imo always been for live perf, but until standalone didn’t quite compete with the laptop. I tried perf love w/love for about six months w/push 2, mpc, mixer, cards, and Mac bundled up in a sweet flight case w/power. I had to bail since it just took to much effort to drag everything needed around and time to adjust/check etc. this solves some of those issues and really puts it at even w/a self contained instrument.
Yeah for 2k. I dont need it. I tried push 2 many years back and it did not gel with my workflow. I'm going to watch this space and see what ableton does in terms of updates. Standalone ableton is a kind of a loaded statement. Because most people use ableton with 3rd party plugins and having a push that only runs ableton devices feels half baked to me. If im reolacing my new macbook pro for this. I need to run pigments and tons of other plugins. I dont need to pay 2k to sketch something out only to go to my macbook pro later to add 3rd party plugins. It feels weird at 2k usd.
If you're a heavy plugin user Push is probably not for you. You'd be surprised by how many people only work with the built in Ableton devices though, so Push makes a lot of sense for them.
I'm mostly pleased this will bring the price of Push 2 down, which is more than enough for me!
Yes! That definitely is a secondary benefit. Push 2 is still a super solid piece of gear and I believe Ableton will still be supporting it for a while.
i try one for few weeks now, it's a great device but useless in standalone mode for now.
Mhh. Nice microhouse vibes 🥰
I hope it can handle heat in the summer. Because it has no ventilator. How this processor is kept cool when a lot of plugins are loaded and it is summer.And can i install my license of live 11 suite? Because i guess it has already a lite version installed I think. Time to think over, has been sold out, wait 2-4 weeks.
There are no plugins
I still find working with a mouse better and faster. I once bought a apsc 40 becauese i thought i need to „touch my mousic“ i was wrong and i never used it.
That's totally valid. I've worked with 100s of students over the years and for many of them, working with a computer is hugely uninspiring so Push is great, but for many others they just prefer working with a mouse and keyboard. To each their own!
Interesting point you make. Strangely (I have a Push, not P-3) and I had to play a Hammond organ line into Live. I have a good ear and understand theory and could easily have programmed the line in or step sequenced it in. But I played it on Push - and considering how bad the pads were (my trainer told me later how to make the pads better) it was a lot of work. But it sounded far better. Everything that I played on Push sounded better than mousing it in.
I don't know if that's my generation where we played instruments for years before DAWs came along... but the difference is night and day. But you can plug any controller in not just one made by Ableton...
Why is Push3 Audio interface showing as 16 ins 16 outs in the prefs ?
Its got the 2 physical ins and 4 physical outs (incl the headphone output), 8 ADAT ins and outs and the 4 available channels of CV count as both 4 ins and outs. That gets you 16 out and 14 in and I have absolutely no idea where the other 2 ins comes from 🤷♂
@@ELPHNT Ok so this means that with an added soundcard (via ADAT) we effectively have 12 audio outs + 4 CV outs ? Nice !
Exactly! And 10 audio ins
This is the kind of stuff a confirmed artist need. I make music, but am I really a confirmed artist that know what he actually does ? No, not really, so yeah, sure it’s a hell of a machine, but in hands of amateurs like me ? Not useful at all, still very good but it’s gonna be simply unexploited potential
Hey, well done for the fascinating video..
I wanted to ask you, if I'm just starting out and want to produce house music in Ableton, can Ableton Push alone provide an answer for this without a midi keyboard?
Also, is it even better than a midi keyboard if I don't know chords?
Yes, definitely. Push is excellent for 'on the grid' music like House. The built-in step sequencers are perfect for programming drums. And if you're not strong with music theory, the pad grid makes life pretty easy 'cause you can just set it to be in key and then pretty much play anything! Be aware that, if you're just starting out, there will be a learning curve, but I think Push can help a lot with that by making many of the parts of the music-making process more immediate and hands-on.
What about brightness of display and pads when power supply is not plugged in? Is still as Push 2?
In my experience the brightness is the same with or without power connected, but I've only tried the Standalone version with a battery, so that probably makes a difference. Can't speak for the non-Standalone version unfortunately.
I desperately want this but 2k definitely pushes it down my priority list
I’m stoked, but as it is with no arrangement mode is a dealbreaker for me. I hope they fix that with an update.
I'm curious what kind of arrangement view functionally people are hoping for. I don't really see how the Push could help with arrangement mode. Or is there a midi controller that can be used in AV already?
Looppop did a test and it does seem like Push 3 can play from the arrangement of a set even though you can't access it so it could be a future update. But -- Isn't that basically what a laptop is for? For me at least in arrangement view at that point having a big screen + mouse + keyboard is a benefit.
Really great video mate. New subscriber ✌🏻
Yay! Welcome 🙌
@@ELPHNT DEFINITELY want one! It’s hysterically priced but as an Ableton user the features and layout of the 3 finally make me want to get into the hardware ecosystem. And by that of course I mean add it to my ever growing wish list of gear hahaha!
Does it have the same type of rubberized coating that was on Push 2? It's on a bunch of synths and is prone to breaking down and becoming gummy.
They removed that a few years into the production run of Push 2. I had that problem and got mine replaced nearly for free. That coating was horrible. I'm quite sure its not on the 3.
@@SsgtHolland I didn't know that! I've got an older Push 2 and its very sticky 😬
Definitely a much nicer material 👌
@@ELPHNT Yeah, it gets really gross, it drove me insane. Turns out that all types of rubber degrade over time, but some types get this sticky feeling. Worse yet, there is nothing you can do to fix it or even mitigate it. A huge screw-up by Ableton. Mine was years out of warranty, but they offered me a trade in deal. Mixed feelings about that, as it was clearly a manufacturing mistake, but I still had to pay to get a new one. But the new one does not have the coating so to me it was worth it in the end. That rubber feeling is awful. Makes you grab your mouse and keyboard;)
I’ve seen a lot of people talking about updates that would be great and “for now it can’t” on every video. Has the push 3 actually gotten any firmware updates??
Yup, its had a couple new things added since launch. Mostly relatively minor at this stage, but I think its due for a biggish update with new Live 12 stuff.
instead of expanding push via ADAT, is it possible to expand my audio interface with push as a slave?
Good question! Haven't tried it so can't say for sure, but it has ADAT in and out so... 🤷♂️
Can you run the inspired by nature Max for live plugins on standalone push 3?
I haven't tested whether they would run or not (I think they would), but even if they do, quite a lot of the magic of those devices comes from very custom, mouse-based interactions that you couldn't replicate on Push.
How's the audio input latency when controlling external hardware synths?
Has anybody yet compared the integrated Push 3 audio interface in terms of sound quality with a decent Focusrite or UA interface?
I would also love to hear more about this, no one seems to be covering this aspect as of now
@@fadnavismehul I would also love to hear/see some details aboput that
Why didnt they make a touch screen?
As someone who works an industrial job I’m not put off by being in front of a pc after work. I have a comfy studio room so the entire appeal of the push 3s portability is nothing important to me
Can you load 3rd party vst3 plugins ? Omnisphere ? external hard drive with all your plugins , samples etc ? external monitor , to view ableton live ? i'm sure we will see upgraded mod kits soon , so maybe i will just buy the hollow push 3 , wait for the new mod kits so i won't be so pissed off when that happens ,lol !
No 3rd party plugin support right now, although you can transfer sessions from your computer that use plugins as long as the track is frozen. Obviously the biggest issue here is how to deal with the GUI with no dedicated screen. We'll have to see if that gets addressed in the future...
Hi, thanks for the Video. Can you please test this for me?
Does CV TOOL now support Delay Compensation?
I ask Ableton for this 3 years ago here. L10-SUG-3751. They answer me with: Indeed this is not a bug but rather the absence of Delay Compensation for CV Tool and it is expected.
This wasn't about whether you should get one, this was a sales pitch. Duly noted that this is who ELPHNT is now.
Waiting for these to hit Colombia
No arranger?
No direct sampling into Simpler/Sampler?
Which Packs can you install on Push, only the ones from the Abletonshop?
Packs from the official Ableton shop can be installed right from the device, but you could also install 3rd party packs via the Continuity feature - dragging and dropping files from your computer.
Can you still use 3rd party synths and effects in standalone mode? I feel standalone mode will be pointless for a lot of people if this is not possible, but an absolute game changer if it is.
Is that ever a thing with stand-alones? It would mean they need to include a computer inside
@@NakulKrishna the i3 Intel 11gen processor inside of it, it is a computer inside.
No third party plugins!! Personally I find the stock instruments a bit weak sounding but maybe it’s a good machine to sketch and then do more in depth original sound design with a computer.
This and the lack of arranger view are the main reasons I ordered the controller version. I hope they do this though as it would be a game changer to fully be untethered from my laptop!
No 3rd party plugins. There's a full on computer inside (running Linux) so in theory there should be no issue running plugins that support Linux, the main issue is really just how to handle the plugin's interface. Like, how the heck would one manage a Kontakt patch on here, for example. I personally don't use many 3rd party devices and think the built in stuff is pretty excellent, so that's not an issue for me, but if it is then I'd stick with the control version.
Amazing video, this product would be near perfect if they increased the quantization to more than 32 regarding the note repeat & if there was an arrangement view. The Akai Force in which seemed to model the Push even has an arrangement view! 👊🏽✊🏽💪🏽⚡🔥💥💫✨
Just double the BPM in Ableton.
No headphone out on the front?
@elphnt would you be able to do something on the Max for Live integration/its limitations? Curious to see how classics like LFO, Granulator II, and Conv Reverb Pro work on this
Not great so far with Max For Live. Its hit and miss whether devices do or don't work (even the official Ableton ones) and things like LFO are impossible to use in Standalone 'cause there's no way to map them. I have heard a lot from Ableton about how this is going to be addressed, so hopefully we see that sorted with some updates soon.
@@ELPHNT good to know! yeah the inability to change samples on granulator II is basically a dealbreaker for me, i wonder if they can work on that in future updates
can it still play well in project over 1 hour long? Or sets or how does this work? Lets say I want ot play 3 hours pre-made with some improvised parts... Is this possible? Won't the CPU run out? Won't there be pauzes between switching songs? can anyone give an answer to this?
Making a song is nothing, playing hours long is another thing..
I agree... it's an amazing amazing device... I hope to receive it next week :D
Whoop! Stoked for you to get your hands on it 🙌
no fair, I really want one but I'm NOT spending 2000 BUCKS for an overengineered launchpad
@@i_make_beats Don't get me wrong... in my case I didn't go for the standalone version either... too expensive and new, but the fact that the pure driver version is upgradable at any time made it even more attractive. Also after several years of enjoying push 2, I sold it as part of the payment for the new one. I consider that with all the workflow improvements it integrates and the quality of finish, it will be a good investment for several years.
And then i fished out my Push 2, to find both it and the push 1 are a gummy rubberized mess. No one has so far mentioned the surface finish. Is it the same TPE rubber surface used on the Push 1 and the Push 2, or will Ableton learn from its mistakes to offer this instrument without that awful surface treatment?
Nope, no gross stickiness on this one! 🙌 I'm not actually sure what the material is (I think its a hard plastic 🤷♂️) but it feels much nicer than the previous Push. Obviously haven't had it for that long so can't say how it will age, but it definitely feels much better.
What about plug in support. Can I create a track with guitar rig on it and play my guitar? What if I start on the computer and have a track with a plug in on it. Is the track still playable in standalone mode?
No. No VST support for now.
No VST support for now, though you can create a track with VSTs on your computer and transfer it across as long as the tracks with VSTs are frozen.
Anyone know if the push adat can be configured to have it’s world clock set not as master so following another clock?
Not sure...
Can I use my Desktop-License on the Push 3 Standalone? Or do I have to buy a second one?
It's the same license, so you just have to connect to your Ableton account and authorise it.
@@ELPHNT Great :) thanks for the quick answer. Enjoy the weekend!
I know that there is no Song mode. But can you launch scenes or clips from an external sequencer to do a song mode workaround?
Yes, definitely! You can connect Control Surfaces like an APC or Launchpad (or any other controller) via the USB.
@@ELPHNT Thanks so much 🙏 So, say I had an Elektron box for example, could I use that to sequence scene1, then scene2, the back to scene1, then on to scene3? Like, could I use another sequencer to string scenes together so that I don't have to launch them manually?
Don't have much experience with the Elektron stuff unfortunately. If it can work as a Control Surface then it should be fine, but if not then you're probably out of luck, 'cause AFAIK, only Control Surfaces will be able to launch Clips and Scenes.
Can we still automate time signature between rows in session view by naming the scenes by their own time signatures?
Unfortunately not - they changed the way that works in the Live 11 update... 🙁
Do you know where the cables for midi and cv are available, in the abletonshop they are not and ableton does not answer the question....
Any decent online or IRL music store will have them. Your best one will depend on where you're based (i.e. Sweetwater for the US, Thomann is pretty good for Europe).
@@ELPHNT Thanks,Ableton told me they are in their shop but they are not, do you not what cables you need to get for the P3 Midi i/o and the CV Outs, and how do you get 4 cv signals out of one mono audiocable?
@@lab-by-the-sea It really depends on what kind of gear you're trying to connect.
Something like this is what you need for MIDI: www.amazon.co.uk/MIDI-Adapter-Breakout-Cable-Female/dp/B0797SG8RS/ref=sr_1_21?keywords=mini+jack+to+midi+cable&qid=1685285489&s=musical-instruments&sprefix=mini+jack+to+midi%2Cmi%2C65&sr=1-21
And something like this is what you need as a CV splitter: www.amazon.co.uk/Tisino-Stereo-Y-Splitter-Return-Insert/dp/B07K59P692
@@ELPHNT Thank You!
great review
Thanks! ❤️
Hi! Thanks for the video. I have a question, How does Push 3 handles latency? Now that the interface is in the unit, I guess Ableton had taken care of it. I’m wondering how would it be with external gear, let’s say I will have all my synths by adat ( is it usb c capable of usb audio?) then monitor should be in auto in order the hear what I’m recording . Will external instrument devices take care of latency? Thank for helping the community
The built in interface works just like any other interface and you'll need to configure the Buffer Size accordingly to deal with latency. Standalone Mode has an Audio settings page that lets you set this.
@@ELPHNT ah ok! Thanks for answering. I was hopping that with the push 3 stand alone everything will be smoother than with the computer. Appreciate your info! 👌🏻
Until they solve the problem of arranging on Push and allow VST integration, this isn't for me. I t is just an expensive idea generator which you can pretty much do on push 2. It looks nice though but not $2000 nice. A bit OTT (see what I did there?)
Good points but consider the size of the screen, dude. How do you think arrangement view would look or work on a screen this small? Maybe it would work. Disclaimer - I own a Push, so I have no skin in the game either way.
I think my iPad with Logic Pro is enough at the Moment..
Is there a review with push 2 and push 3 side by side? This review is as much about the latest Ableton 11.3 as it is about the Push 3. 2hrs battery means its will also certainly be tethered to a mains charger, and if that's the case it may as well be tethered to a laptop. You really want the battery life of a iPad for this to be viable. Speaking of which, Ableton Live on an ipad pro wouldn't be a bad bit of gear, with an MPE surface in support of that.
Bringing a charger is definitely not the same as bringing a laptop that has its own charger and stuff.. 🤷♂
The actual hardware is definitely a really nice improvement to Push 2. I'd say it almost the same leap in quality as it was from Push 1 to 2. Everything just feels better - the pads, buttons, screen, etc. And ofc, MPE. Going back to Push 2 just feels like a downgrade 🤣 I personally never found the 2hrs of battery life limiting for what I've used it for in Standalone (sketching stuff on the couch, or around the house) and its really not a huge headache to charge up.
@@ELPHNT sweet! Better start saving then ;0)
It’s extremely rare in any professional music setting that there isn’t a mains to plug into. So the battery life is a non issue.
A laptop or an iPad running a DAW, powering controllers and an interface wont have much more battery power either. It’s enough to get most through a show or a jam session if necessary.
The whole idea of stand-alone operation is to get away from all that extra equipment, taking up more space, adding weight and things to get broken or lost.
I don't know, it just feels like swapping a screen for… another screen? Also as I use a lot of VSTs and M4L devices it doesn't seem like it'd cover that very well.
It certainly is just swapping one screen for another (I mention that in the video) but it makes a big difference having a screen that is dedicated to one thing. If I'm totally honest, if I could have a version of Push that was just the screen and encoders that would be INCREDIBLE. The focused screen really is Push's best feature IMO.
And yes, the VST and Max support isn't great. If you make use of a lot of those, Push is probably not suited for your workflow.
@@ELPHNT Thanks for the reply-yeah different strokes I guess; it seems like a wonderful piece of kit, just maladapted to my workflow indeed.
answer is always yes. All GAS no brakes
Is the case of push 3 built in metal or is it a plastic bomb like push 1 and 2?
I'm not actually sure - feels like metal, but could also be a hard plastic. Either way it's miles better than Push 2 and doesn't have the same 'stickiness' issues.
10 seconds into the video I thought I clicked on a Captain Pikant video
"With no limitations compared to the desktop version" - uh, no. There's no arrangement view whatsoever, and of course no third party VST support.
Ableton Push 3 is basically... Ableton's VST in the box for 2 grands. Dunno if someone who already have a laptop and Ableton will need it that badly to spend another couple of grands for this. If it was compact or at least had some analog circuit in it, then yes. Now it's just another laptop with VSTs and samples. Sorry guys, this is the way i see it. Maybe i'm wrong.
People spend $1000s on standalone hardware like MPCs, etc, just because of the workflow. For some people, even running exactly the same software as you do on your computer, just having a dedicated music making device can be pretty powerful. I agree the price tag is pretty steep and its definitely not for everyone, but overall I think Ableton have done a really good job of creating a piece of hardware that is fun to use and will only get better over time.
@@ELPHNTi'm a fan of grooveboxes but a)they are compact b) usually sound better than stock Ableton vst. Push 3 have none of them benefits and ask for 2 grands... Not knocking on a device tho, VST in a box is a good idea ( i wish Tone 2 made one also), Thanks man, sub from me!
I still prefer 88keys midi controller, apc40 and a stream deck. I can't let go of faders ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
great review...but these days the prices are getting ridiculous or most ppl are getting richer.....
they try to make music devices a luxury items, very bad sign
@@djkanyon agree, it the effect of implicit exclusivity of technology vs social class....indeed, horrible sign of ..... the days of underground culture has been destroyed ( since the early 2000)
@@am5790very well said, underground culture is dying because of them business moves