I don’t play Horus Heresy, but if I did and had a lot of money I would probably try to build an army based on ‘what If Angron didn’t get the nails?’ So mass melee charge while spamming as many apothecaries as possible. That’s all I can really think of lol. I subscribe to the idea that Angron was meant to be the healer which is why the War Hounds were naturally both strangely empathetic and incredibly aggressive, they were the ones built to *tear* *through* lines of enemies to rescue the wounded. A legion of front line medics that will brutally destroy any life that gets in their way of saving a life.
Predators being fast attack feels like a fluff rule. World Eaters loved armored/mechanised assaults. So having a bunch of predators to support your landraiders carrying heavy infantry payloads feels... just *chefs kiss*. I will say that I will be forever bummed with the Ravening Madmen rule. I'm not a fan of the WS3 on the primarch and the butchers at ALLLLL. It doesn't feel like the units are strong enough for that big of a downside.
From my game play, here are the take aways I see: Tactical Marines get Storm Wing. Despoiler and Assault Marines get Deathwing (the majority will have swords). Dreadnoughts get Dreadwing. Tanks should be Firewing if they are anti Infantry or Ironwing if they are anti tank. Generally speaking, special weapons should be Firewing. Heavy weapons should be Firewing if they are Heavy Bolters or Volkite but Ironwing if they are expecting to shoot tanks. Right now, I don't see any reason to take Ravenwing as the other wings are more interesting. The items you innately think need to be fast are already very fast. I think if Ravenwing gave you a boost to run or reroll charge, then I think it would be a contender for a lot of other units.
I've found that making my general Firewing is really good as it allows me to move him to a unit and then change their Hexagrammaton mark (you can only use 1 per turn if there are 2 in the same unit) so if I need to shoot at a unit with an independent character and the squad they joined, I can move the guy into coherency and get that +1 to wound. I've found that Firewing REALLY makes you hurt Mechanicus or people who rely on a hiding their characters in large squads or beefy squads. I've found that its pretty funny if you shoot a heavy volkite into a Mechanicus unit that is protecting their Magos by putting him in a T5 or T6 unit. You can still wound them on 3+ with a volkite or 4+ with HB. For other special weapons, its fun to shoot things like Command Squads with Rotor Cannons. You can wound them on 4+ instead of 5+. Same goes for attaching a Praetor with Firewing and Terranic Greatsword - throw him in a unit with Deathwing Despoilers and you can switch them to Firewing or Deathwing based on whether you're fighting a unit with an independent character. You get either +1 to hit with your sword vs non character units or the unit gets +1 to wound if they are independent characters. Usually you have 1-3 of them and they don't stay solos so its helpful to have a unit that will focus on whatever unit they want to add characters to.
Ravenwing I don't see will add much because you have to move flat out to get any of the bonuses for M or for Shroud. I'd rather make my Jetbikes either Stormwing/Firewing if they have Heavy Bolters or Volkite or Ironwing if they have Multimeltas.
A Butcher's Claws Warlord with Rampagers carrying Meteor Hammers causes them to hit a S8 on the charge with +1I and Breaching(5+). With volume of attacks, that is enough to score a few Breaching hits per Rampager, and with S8 doubling out T4, you are pasting everyone else's elite infantry, baring Gal Vorbak and Custodes, all before they get to swing at you (unless EC). Back this up with ample Magna Melta Preds, and you have no shortage of S8. I would run as Berserker Assault for the bonus to charge.
As a current WE player, I’ll have to push back on the Red Butcher death star. For one, they have lacking WS, especially on the counter-charge, and even on the charge they are only WS 5. In addition, their limited wargear means they’re only really good at butchering power armor and that’s it. In addition, adding any sort of Suport is limited to an HQ giving themselves a literal and figurative lobotomy by taking Beserker. Beserker basically giving the HQ all the downsides of the RB but none of the slim benefits. Just take regular termies, more options, and they aren’t actively handicapped in any situation they’re not the attacker.
Agreed. Red Butchers have to be up there with the WORST legion-specific terminators in the game right now. And Rampagers have over-costed upgrades, and look terrible next to Dawn Breakers or Night Raptors (both of whom seem to get their weapons and jump-packs for free when compared to Assault squads or Rampagers).
It really makes me cry that math wise Red Butchers get slaughtered by power fist legion termies... Honestly if Red Butchers have their ravening madmen affect instant death ONLY IN MELEE, it'd make them the terrifying murderous melee threat they should be while still having weaknesses (like Brutal 2 weapons, that would still kill them)
I personally like a warmonger for Red Butchers to deep strike a brick of 10 in the middle of the enemy line with two Praetors alongside em for my Crimson Path Deathstar. Really, really gnarly
No one has brought up the most insane deathstar, better than kharn and rampagers. Get a centurion (Moritat) with berserker. Rampagers with falax blades on charge you hit on 3s, wound on 2s (rending 4plus) instant death. Sargent gets 5 attacks, rampagers get 4 on charge. No elite unit, or even terminator squad can stand 41 of those hits. A unit with bitter duty cannot have any without join, however the rule doesn’t say it goes both ways. So my centurion can still join squads without the bitter duty rule.
World Eaters are an interesting legion fluff- and rules-wise, though their legion-specific units and special characters really aren't auto-takes. Of particular note, Angron and Kharn both actually debuff any legion-specific bodyguard unit assigned to them with the Ravening Madmen special rule, by stint of it only working when the unit is entirely comprised of models with that special rule (neither Angron nor Kharn have it), so it's ironically not worth it to bother pairing them up with Red Butchers or anyone else with the Berserker upgrade. On top of that, short of running with at least a couple of assault squads 15-20 strong (adding in lightning claws you'll likely see 5 attacks on the charge), you're going to need fire support and/or mass transport to assist with getting your troops into your enemy's lines. Sicaran Arcus is a really good fit for this fire support role, as is having a whirlwind Scorpius hidden away in some dark corner of the board, though you might still want to consider something more substantive for that long range if you're serious about covering your bases.
@@turbocjj5672 It's guaranteed that, Angron or not, a unit with the Ravening Madmen special rule was always going to be treated as being WS3 for the purpose of hitting them in melee. That in itself isn't the concern. However, Ravening Madmen also treats incoming melee attacks as being -1 Strength for the purposes of wounding so long as every model in the unit has the special rule, which Angron doesn't have.
Thanks for this. I'd love Red Butchers to have Initiative 2 power axes to give them more chance against other elite terminators. I disagree on WE having the best combat legion trait. Space Wolves access to better WS and counter attack, plus run and charge makes them so easy to play with. The attack is nice but you need to get Hatred to take advantage of it, and it gives you nothing if they charge you. Really enjoyed the Word Bearers talk on Warmonger podcast. Would just say - Warhawk Jump packs can jump and run, it is an exception to normal Jump units.
I mean, you can always take dual chainfists on the Champion… Also, they’re just fun to use in general. You could kamikaze them into the closest enemy unit and it would be a blast either way. Would it hurt a little if you lost the combat? Yes. But would it KICK ASS to have your big murderfuck terminators become a massive problem for the enemy? Absolutely.
@@LordCrate-du8zm they're fun, but definitely have some design glitches that hold them back. Until they did an errata they couldn't even use the WE reaction. Chainfist isn't a specialist weapon now so only need to take one of them.
@@LordCrate-du8zm well... You only need to take one to get the same effect, so saves a few points. (Leave other weapon as power axe). Really nice would be for them to all have a chainfist in one hand, and a power sword (or anything not unwieldy and not specialist) in the other.
But ngl I I’ve smacked up every world eaters players I’ve matched vs with my 20 man head hunter set up and 15 tyrant siege terminators I use 4 dread claw drop pods Now I use other units of course like line scoring etc
I might be wrong or just missing something but Kharn is a model with legion astartes world eaters and independent character with no psychic powers so theres no reason he can't pay the 20 points to upgrade himself to a bezerker and thus he could join a unit of butchers if he wanted?
@@blackbriargaming5483 Yeah I mean I've been looking through both rule books to be sure since I made the comment and I can't see anything that prevents him from being upgraded, I don't think named or unique or involate since even in 40k they can be given warlord and traits though modern times they are usually assigned a specific one if made the warlord, They are prevented from taking relics but thats specific wording to the relic section in 40k, Reading p214 of the liber hereticus under the legiones astartes it says all models with this special rule are subject to the following provisions and one of the provisions is world eater bezerkers : "a model with the legiones astartes (world eaters) special rule gains access to the world eaters berserkers upgrade, as detailed in the armory of the world eaters.", I have really tried hard to find anything that would prevent it and have come up with nothing so yeah guess if you don't mind putting 20 more points on him you can absolutely stick nails in hh era Kharns head
I disagree. A WS5 enemy (common) is going to be hitting your Red Butchers on 3+ just like they would be normal Terminators. Meanwhile your enemy is at -1S when attacking you in combat. You're fearless. You have Hatred. You're WS5 when attacking. And you have the opportunity to have two close combat weapons. Which most terminators don't. Are they broken good? No. Are they worth taking. You betya!
@@blackbriargaming5483 the -1 S does not affect instant death tho, so thunder hammers (most enemy terminators will use them) still wound you on 2+ with brutal 2 and ID. Red butchers are striking back with fucking power axes, the gap in damage output is just to big. Red Butchers are going to be absolutely murderfucked even by regular terminators with thunder hammers. And they are expensive. As WE you are best off just spamming Rampagers with twin falax blades these days, Red Butchers are hands down the worst unit in the game right now...
There so worth taking if your building a fluffy list like myself 😂 will I most likely get slaughtered yes but will I have a absolute blast as long as they kill a sqaud absolutely 😂
Honestly there's not an abundance of complexity to the World Eaters when it comes to Army Building... unless I'm missing something...? So I hope it's still useful!
I'm going to add a Berzerker Praetor with power fist and Paragon blade using Butchers Claws to my Miley Cyrus. 8 s6 ap2 attacks at initiative, or 8 s9 ap2 attacks at initiative 1, someone's going to get hurt really bad
It's a shame WEs are such a boring legion, choice wise. All those interesting options/rites of war, etc in the army list are ruled out in favour of armies that look exactly the same as they did in 1st ed.
![Horus Heresy-era World Eaters - Fast! [How I Paint Things]](/img/1.gif)
"Don't play World Eaters, they SUCK" -A dedicated World Eater's player that doesn't want anyone else to see how much fun they are
My nails get stoked when BBG uploads
That's all I could ever ask for 😄
I don’t play Horus Heresy, but if I did and had a lot of money I would probably try to build an army based on ‘what If Angron didn’t get the nails?’
So mass melee charge while spamming as many apothecaries as possible. That’s all I can really think of lol.
I subscribe to the idea that Angron was meant to be the healer which is why the War Hounds were naturally both strangely empathetic and incredibly aggressive, they were the ones built to *tear* *through* lines of enemies to rescue the wounded. A legion of front line medics that will brutally destroy any life that gets in their way of saving a life.
Great comment, love the idea
Currently putting together an army based on that exact same concept with the war hounds (pre angron 12th) scheme
Predators being fast attack feels like a fluff rule. World Eaters loved armored/mechanised assaults. So having a bunch of predators to support your landraiders carrying heavy infantry payloads feels... just *chefs kiss*.
I will say that I will be forever bummed with the Ravening Madmen rule. I'm not a fan of the WS3 on the primarch and the butchers at ALLLLL. It doesn't feel like the units are strong enough for that big of a downside.
Being a DA player, this series is killing me slowly
I waited so long for this video! Be strong brother!
From my game play, here are the take aways I see: Tactical Marines get Storm Wing. Despoiler and Assault Marines get Deathwing (the majority will have swords). Dreadnoughts get Dreadwing. Tanks should be Firewing if they are anti Infantry or Ironwing if they are anti tank. Generally speaking, special weapons should be Firewing. Heavy weapons should be Firewing if they are Heavy Bolters or Volkite but Ironwing if they are expecting to shoot tanks. Right now, I don't see any reason to take Ravenwing as the other wings are more interesting. The items you innately think need to be fast are already very fast. I think if Ravenwing gave you a boost to run or reroll charge, then I think it would be a contender for a lot of other units.
I've found that making my general Firewing is really good as it allows me to move him to a unit and then change their Hexagrammaton mark (you can only use 1 per turn if there are 2 in the same unit) so if I need to shoot at a unit with an independent character and the squad they joined, I can move the guy into coherency and get that +1 to wound. I've found that Firewing REALLY makes you hurt Mechanicus or people who rely on a hiding their characters in large squads or beefy squads. I've found that its pretty funny if you shoot a heavy volkite into a Mechanicus unit that is protecting their Magos by putting him in a T5 or T6 unit. You can still wound them on 3+ with a volkite or 4+ with HB. For other special weapons, its fun to shoot things like Command Squads with Rotor Cannons. You can wound them on 4+ instead of 5+. Same goes for attaching a Praetor with Firewing and Terranic Greatsword - throw him in a unit with Deathwing Despoilers and you can switch them to Firewing or Deathwing based on whether you're fighting a unit with an independent character. You get either +1 to hit with your sword vs non character units or the unit gets +1 to wound if they are independent characters. Usually you have 1-3 of them and they don't stay solos so its helpful to have a unit that will focus on whatever unit they want to add characters to.
Ravenwing I don't see will add much because you have to move flat out to get any of the bonuses for M or for Shroud. I'd rather make my Jetbikes either Stormwing/Firewing if they have Heavy Bolters or Volkite or Ironwing if they have Multimeltas.
A Butcher's Claws Warlord with Rampagers carrying Meteor Hammers causes them to hit a S8 on the charge with +1I and Breaching(5+). With volume of attacks, that is enough to score a few Breaching hits per Rampager, and with S8 doubling out T4, you are pasting everyone else's elite infantry, baring Gal Vorbak and Custodes, all before they get to swing at you (unless EC).
Back this up with ample Magna Melta Preds, and you have no shortage of S8. I would run as Berserker Assault for the bonus to charge.
As a current WE player, I’ll have to push back on the Red Butcher death star. For one, they have lacking WS, especially on the counter-charge, and even on the charge they are only WS 5. In addition, their limited wargear means they’re only really good at butchering power armor and that’s it.
In addition, adding any sort of Suport is limited to an HQ giving themselves a literal and figurative lobotomy by taking Beserker. Beserker basically giving the HQ all the downsides of the RB but none of the slim benefits.
Just take regular termies, more options, and they aren’t actively handicapped in any situation they’re not the attacker.
Agreed. Red Butchers have to be up there with the WORST legion-specific terminators in the game right now. And Rampagers have over-costed upgrades, and look terrible next to Dawn Breakers or Night Raptors (both of whom seem to get their weapons and jump-packs for free when compared to Assault squads or Rampagers).
It really makes me cry that math wise Red Butchers get slaughtered by power fist legion termies... Honestly if Red Butchers have their ravening madmen affect instant death ONLY IN MELEE, it'd make them the terrifying murderous melee threat they should be while still having weaknesses (like Brutal 2 weapons, that would still kill them)
Yeah, as it is at the moment I would just spam rampagers with twin falax blades...
I personally like a warmonger for Red Butchers to deep strike a brick of 10 in the middle of the enemy line with two Praetors alongside em for my Crimson Path Deathstar. Really, really gnarly
What kind of Praetors, and what units?
@@LordCrate-du8zm I'll have a dig through my army lists to see if I can find the list
@@sixpathskaiokentv Sounds good
No one has brought up the most insane deathstar, better than kharn and rampagers. Get a centurion (Moritat) with berserker. Rampagers with falax blades on charge you hit on 3s, wound on 2s (rending 4plus) instant death. Sargent gets 5 attacks, rampagers get 4 on charge. No elite unit, or even terminator squad can stand 41 of those hits. A unit with bitter duty cannot have any without join, however the rule doesn’t say it goes both ways. So my centurion can still join squads without the bitter duty rule.
World Eaters are an interesting legion fluff- and rules-wise, though their legion-specific units and special characters really aren't auto-takes. Of particular note, Angron and Kharn both actually debuff any legion-specific bodyguard unit assigned to them with the Ravening Madmen special rule, by stint of it only working when the unit is entirely comprised of models with that special rule (neither Angron nor Kharn have it), so it's ironically not worth it to bother pairing them up with Red Butchers or anyone else with the Berserker upgrade.
On top of that, short of running with at least a couple of assault squads 15-20 strong (adding in lightning claws you'll likely see 5 attacks on the charge), you're going to need fire support and/or mass transport to assist with getting your troops into your enemy's lines. Sicaran Arcus is a really good fit for this fire support role, as is having a whirlwind Scorpius hidden away in some dark corner of the board, though you might still want to consider something more substantive for that long range if you're serious about covering your bases.
Just a quick correction - Kharn doesn't have Ravening Madman special rule
@@matthewpink123 That's what I said, and hence why I don't recommend pairing him or Angron with a unit that does have the special rule.
@@liammorgan1413 Angron doesn't have Ravening Madmen but he has the Butchers Nails wargear which has the same effect of WS3 on the whole unit
@@turbocjj5672 It's guaranteed that, Angron or not, a unit with the Ravening Madmen special rule was always going to be treated as being WS3 for the purpose of hitting them in melee.
That in itself isn't the concern.
However, Ravening Madmen also treats incoming melee attacks as being -1 Strength for the purposes of wounding so long as every model in the unit has the special rule, which Angron doesn't have.
@@liammorgan1413 why not put kharn with rampagers? Stick em in a Proteus and oh boy.
Thanks for this. I'd love Red Butchers to have Initiative 2 power axes to give them more chance against other elite terminators.
I disagree on WE having the best combat legion trait. Space Wolves access to better WS and counter attack, plus run and charge makes them so easy to play with. The attack is nice but you need to get Hatred to take advantage of it, and it gives you nothing if they charge you.
Really enjoyed the Word Bearers talk on Warmonger podcast. Would just say - Warhawk Jump packs can jump and run, it is an exception to normal Jump units.
I mean, you can always take dual chainfists on the Champion…
Also, they’re just fun to use in general. You could kamikaze them into the closest enemy unit and it would be a blast either way. Would it hurt a little if you lost the combat? Yes. But would it KICK ASS to have your big murderfuck terminators become a massive problem for the enemy? Absolutely.
@@LordCrate-du8zm they're fun, but definitely have some design glitches that hold them back. Until they did an errata they couldn't even use the WE reaction.
Chainfist isn't a specialist weapon now so only need to take one of them.
@@anonymousgeoff5399 Oh damn, that sucks. I thought that the dual chainfist rule still applied like it did in HH 1e
@@LordCrate-du8zm well... You only need to take one to get the same effect, so saves a few points. (Leave other weapon as power axe). Really nice would be for them to all have a chainfist in one hand, and a power sword (or anything not unwieldy and not specialist) in the other.
@@anonymousgeoff5399 I see
The issue with Bezerker Assualt is not being allowed to join ongoing combat. This can really hurt some units like destroyers.
LETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOO
*ANGRY CHAINAXE NOISES*
I imagine it sounds something like VRMM VRRRMMM
By the time you get to ec I will have built my legion gg
I converted my Rampagers out of beakies and beast men bestigor arms
Siiiiick!!!
I used Mk 4 marines with rust stalker arms for the twin phalax blades
God damn that’s really clever. I was thinking of kitbashing Red Butchers from Eightbound and Cataphractii.
But ngl I I’ve smacked up every world eaters players I’ve matched vs with my 20 man head hunter set up and 15 tyrant siege terminators
I use 4 dread claw drop pods
Now I use other units of course like line scoring etc
That's because shooting >>>>>>>> melee very badly in this edition. They need to fix a few units on account of this.
I might be wrong or just missing something but Kharn is a model with legion astartes world eaters and independent character with no psychic powers so theres no reason he can't pay the 20 points to upgrade himself to a bezerker and thus he could join a unit of butchers if he wanted?
Hmmm. I was always under the impression that you couldn't give special characters further upgrades. But maybe that's just an assumption...? 🤔
@@blackbriargaming5483 Yeah I mean I've been looking through both rule books to be sure since I made the comment and I can't see anything that prevents him from being upgraded, I don't think named or unique or involate since even in 40k they can be given warlord and traits though modern times they are usually assigned a specific one if made the warlord, They are prevented from taking relics but thats specific wording to the relic section in 40k, Reading p214 of the liber hereticus under the legiones astartes it says all models with this special rule are subject to the following provisions and one of the provisions is world eater bezerkers : "a model with the legiones astartes (world eaters) special rule gains access to the world eaters berserkers upgrade, as detailed in the armory of the world eaters.", I have really tried hard to find anything that would prevent it and have come up with nothing so yeah guess if you don't mind putting 20 more points on him you can absolutely stick nails in hh era Kharns head
@@Spiran_SphereHunter hey mate, it is in the “unique” rule. “A model with unique may not select any options other than on its army list profile”
@@andrewlopezmp3 Edit: nvm finally found it in the liber on pg95, I love hh but I hope they improve the rulebooks next set, Thanks Andrew
@@Spiran_SphereHunter yes, the split of rules between the rulebook and army books is quite frustrating
Red butchers arent very good. The downside of taking them makes them not worth it. Taking regular terminators is a much better option
I disagree. A WS5 enemy (common) is going to be hitting your Red Butchers on 3+ just like they would be normal Terminators. Meanwhile your enemy is at -1S when attacking you in combat. You're fearless. You have Hatred. You're WS5 when attacking. And you have the opportunity to have two close combat weapons. Which most terminators don't. Are they broken good? No. Are they worth taking. You betya!
@@blackbriargaming5483 the -1 S does not affect instant death tho, so thunder hammers (most enemy terminators will use them) still wound you on 2+ with brutal 2 and ID. Red butchers are striking back with fucking power axes, the gap in damage output is just to big. Red Butchers are going to be absolutely murderfucked even by regular terminators with thunder hammers. And they are expensive. As WE you are best off just spamming Rampagers with twin falax blades these days, Red Butchers are hands down the worst unit in the game right now...
There so worth taking if your building a fluffy list like myself 😂 will I most likely get slaughtered yes but will I have a absolute blast as long as they kill a sqaud absolutely 😂
Yeeees been waiting!
Honestly there's not an abundance of complexity to the World Eaters when it comes to Army Building... unless I'm missing something...? So I hope it's still useful!
Mate they can’t run and charge it’s not said in the rules especially as the space wolves have the run and charge especially mentioned
Unfortunately, a little math shows how bad the Red Butchers. Ravagers on the other hand.......
I'm going to add a Berzerker Praetor with power fist and Paragon blade using Butchers Claws to my Miley Cyrus. 8 s6 ap2 attacks at initiative, or 8 s9 ap2 attacks at initiative 1, someone's going to get hurt really bad
This guy sounds zesty
I would use dread claw drop pods over land raiders
Dreadclaws lost the assault vehicle rule in 2.0
It's a shame WEs are such a boring legion, choice wise. All those interesting options/rites of war, etc in the army list are ruled out in favour of armies that look exactly the same as they did in 1st ed.