Red Dots & Carry Guns, Do They Make Sense?
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- Опубликовано: 16 дек 2023
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/ hegshot87 Do red dots make any sense on carry guns? They have become really popular on every pistol for a couple years now but does it make a difference or provide any benefit for conceal carry? Let's talk about it.
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At 10yrd or so I've always used point and shoot. I can point at an object or attacker within a couple inches shooting semi fast. In self defense situation if it's between the chin and belt you're on target. Great topic because now most new shooter especially think you have to have optics👍
I am a former Infantry officer and career law enforcement in an urban area. Optics could have been useful in law enforcement when on felony stops etc... Truth is most of the time, I needed my full field of vision as I was dealing with multiple players at any one time. As an EDC, they are cool but all but useless in street self defense situations. But hey, what do I know except for the multiple times I've been on a live two way fire range.
Ok so you’re saying just carry with iron sights? I’d like to hear your opinion I’m new to shooting and interested in getting a red dot. What do you think? I conceal carry everyday now never leave without it
@@TheCarnivorePack Do you need a red dot? No, you don't. Shooters have been using iron sights for years. Furthermore, most defense encounters happen between 3 to 7 yards and at that distance you should be able to put rounds on target without a sight system (with the right training). With that said, there are a lot of benefits to use a red dot over iron sights and if you co-witness with iron sights, you have both systems.
The main reason I carry is to have a chance against an active shooter. I want every advantage possible. So yes, I want the optic
Most people carry for basic everyday self defensive situations.. not in case of an active shooter, which are 1000% less common.
Agreed @@TTime685
It’s super sad we have to be prepared for a possibility we encounter a snowflake active. None of them make any sense. Just senseless injury or death is the outcome. I miss the old days before Obama when there was no active shootings. Times have changed. Better to have it and not have to use it than not have it and have to use it. Hopefully you will never have to encounter any of it. Just sad what this world is becoming.
Draw it from a holster, under stress even the stress of a shot timer affects the shooter unless you train often with it. Not against them I just don’t think most of the people that have PCO’s on their ccw’s actually train (not dry fire) but actually train with it. Just my opinion
I’m pretty good at point shooting it’s natural for me have a optic but isn’t faster irons will always be fastest
Being 57 yrs old my close range vision is getting bad. Shot open sights for rifle and pistols my whole life. Except my deer and elk rifles ( 3 x 9 scopes) put a Tru Glo red dot on my GSG 22 and loved it! I’m now running a Holosun 508t rd x2 on my new Spring field Echelon and it’s so much quicker for these old eyes! Lol
I’ve taught several brand new shooters on Dot first because they can focus on not letting the dot move. Once they get trigger press I turn off the dot and they learn irons. In my experience it is an easier transition this way. Less to trouble shoot and the dot doesn’t lie.
One answer, no. Twenty plus as a Deputy. Get some low light irons. You'll be fine.
What do you think about low light suppressor height sights? Or just stick with stock height sights?
As I edge ever closer to 60, I am finding my eyes aren’t what they use to be. I always said I would never use an optic until I actually used one! These old eyes really appreciated that! I now alternate between my G26 with stock sights and my G19 MOS with a Holosun SRS on it for my edc.
It's more important to actually train and to always carry! There are benefits to both. For me it's more comfortable to carry my SIG P365 with the XL grip and no red dot.
It’s not my sights it’s my sight. Old eyes. Lining up front and rear is blurry. Red dot helps me focus on the target.
I don't have any red dots because i have an astigmatism (blurry dot) i do see my front sight perfect though. Not everyone needs to do the new fad. Carry what you can and train.
Well the dot is suppose to be blurry, because you’re not suppose to focus on the dot. Proper aiming with a dot is focusing on the target making the dot blurry.
It amazes me that this is not common knowledge yet, not that you don’t know. Just seems that way from your post.
People say this, but don't you just wear glasses? I have astigmatism, but my glasses brought my vision right back to normal.
I carry the Shield Plus with XS R3D night sights in green. I also have the Ruger Ready Dot mounted. I rely on my co-witness iron sights, because the large green front sight is easy to pick up quickly, however, the large red dot of the Ready Dot adds an added layer of confidence for me. I am a retired LEO with 9 years on the SWAT Team in Florida. I am 74 now and I can still hit the X ring consistently with my sight set-up.
I recently switched to a red dot. I think it is very important to be proficient with irons before going to red dot to help ensure you become proficient at both. Also, it's important to realize there is a learning curve when making that transition. Can't emphasize enough, practice that acquisition of the dot, practice, practice and practice.
I thought I would never want to put an optic on my carry gun. But about a year ago I put the Holosun SCS for my Walther PDP on my gun and I’m so glad I did. My 58 year old eyes thanked me! After a little training with it to insure I was consistent with it, I’m confident enough with it to use it as my EDC. I still do enjoy shooting my Canik Elite Combat with plain old irons and it is also sometimes on my carry belt. But I find myself more and more choosing my Walther with the optic in the morning to go on my belt.
100% agree! I just placed a Holosun 407kGR on my Shield Plus & holy cow, what a difference! Oh, I gotta give you props on your Tulster The Oath video/recommendation - I picked that up for my Shield Plus & I’ll never use another holster.
Thanks for this review. I'm ready to try an optic now.
I have been an advocate of a weapon mounted light for a while, but I have only recently come around to DOT's. I first put one on a Taurus TX22c and Walther WMP to get accustomed to them, it was not as hard of a transition as I thought it would be. I now have 3 carry guns with a DOT of one kind or another on it, and all do co-witness with the irons.👍
For me, the DOT's give me faster target acquisition, and improved accuracy beyond 15 yards.
I really don't put anything on my carry but I know I was trained to shoot differently. My grandfather taught me the point shooting he was taught back in WW2, which is about practicing the muscle memory and understanding the relationship between your hands and your eyes more than relying on sight profiles. I think I'd be way less accurate at range than most people with an optic, but I feel confident I can put more shots on a target from the hip than most.
I have a similar setup to you, P365XL with Romeo-X, in a Tulster Profile+ holster. For the price, Tulster being so minimal and coming with the DCC monoblock is is clutch. Most companies upcharge $22+ for it! The fit is tight and audible click is sweet. I do highly recommend the Tulster Sidekick or a type of wing... that little plastic makes a world of difference. I also use a pocket Neomag if I want to carry an extra. This is my first carry setup and I am super happy with it.
There is a Ruger ready dot waiting for me under the Christmas tree. I am going to install it on my CR920.
I have seen too many optics failures to use them on my EDC.
Dead batteries
Fogged Lens
Dirty lens
Not turned on
Turned down too low
Turned up too high
Broken
Sunlight at an angle that causes a double dot
Adjustment off
I think I've seen one iron-sight failure - but even that wasn't really an "iron" sight. It was with crappy Glock plastic sights.
As for shooting with a target focus, YES. With a good front iron sight (Ameriglo, Tritium HD X rays, or even fiber optics), at average self-defense distances, you can and should focus on the target and allow that bright front sight to superimpose over it. Takes some pratice, but it works the same way an optic does and is far less likely to fail.
All true words. In a stressful defensive shooting event, a person WILL have both eyes firmly fixed on the threat, and not on the front sight. Depending on a person's level of training, an optic could actually hinder their quick and accurate first shot. I work in the industry, and you may be unpleasantly shocked at how many concealed carrier do ZERO training. Even worse, an uncomfortably large number of carriers buy a new gun, take it out of the box, load it, and carry it for months or years before ever firing a round, or even introducing a drop of oil. An optic adds a whole new level of likely failures for those folks.
i put a holosun 507 on my sig xmacro and ran it for while and did ok with it, just recently i went back to “iron sights “ because my presentation and shot on target is a good bit quicker w/o the dot. When I qualify I may put the red dot back on as it does help with shots beyond 15 or more yards. 35ft and in I am in the 9&10 ring with irons and most studies show thats where self defense situations occur.
I understand red dots for shooters who practice a lot with them. My range doesn't allow drawing from a holster. I've used irons since 1980 so I'll never be as quick with red dots. I already print a little. More isn't good. A red dot I trust cost as much as my carry pistols. I do have a red dot on a range gun. At 25 yards I shoot the same as with irons. I do have a Lasergrip on a Ruger LCR that adds almost no bulk or weight & it's easy & quick to use.
It's weird how generations of men mastered their weapon and performed AMAZING shots under pressure without the magical dot.
So carry your bow & arrow around for self defense then. Or maybe a slingshot. Conceals better.
@@96stealth You were so anxious to "own" someone you forgot to make sense. Lol
@@jojodancer1743 Ok, advancement in technology that improves accuracy as well as vision should be ignored because why again?
Why drive a car to work when you can ride a bike or walk?
It’s not magical, it’s progression.
IDK, why would anyone want to make anything easier?
A lot of men missed, too. I remember in IDPA and USPSA when no one used red dots. Performance has improved drastically for the average shooter. The best shooters will win no matter what.
@@oklahomahank2378 “The best will win no matter what”. Well no actually. When dots were first used, nobody could compete with the 2 guys that were using them. So new divisions were needed and when everyone started using dots those 2 guys weren’t at the top anymore.
Dots will always be an advantage. I shot dots exclusively for 2 years straight. Tried irons again and felt totally disconnected. I was still proficient, but I had to try a lot harder. I can’t shoot irons target focused. So I lose field of vision, the target is blurry and I need to align sights.
Shooting with a dot is utterly intuitive/natural.
Im still not sold on a dot for a carry gun.
But they
look cool. And in a life or death situation, looking cool is a top priority
Me and a buddy of mine were talking about this very topic last night. Im a minimalist, call me old school. I would use a red dot for my full-size pistols and riffles. I dont think i would need one on my edc. Just practice bringing the sights into your line of sight.
i agree i have to use what i train with and works
My main carry is the bul ul 3.25. It shoots lights out with the iron sights so that’s exactly how I carry it but on my p365x the green dot is a great addition
Dots make more sense for ccw than a light does
I carry an optic on my edc gun, because it gives me more peace of mind that with my 50yr old eyes I will be able to put rounds on target accurately in a self defense shooting and especially being responsible for every round that is fired out out the gun. Great content and discussion.
Thanks man
@@Hegshot87 Welcome!
It’s always going to be a difference of opinion. It’s a proven fact you can shoot more accurately with a dot but the decision to make is comfortable and concealed plus is the distance of an attacker going to be far enough away to get a sight picture. A lot of self defense shooting is point and shoot because it’s so close. Pros and cons for both.
Dont need shoes to run, but it helps. Personally im of mind that i want every tactical advantage. Technically you dont need irons either to hit your target. Its a flawed sense of thinking, "you dont need" something that makes things easier, or more efficient
Awesome video. Im gonna try to get use to my iron sights on my new shield plus before getting a optic.
Not a bad plan and definitely a great choice
My top two deal-breaker features for a defensive carry gun are reliability and concealablility, in that order. A red dot diminishes both.
Red dot actually increases reliability. The idea that they don't or decrease it even is simply wrong. The data we have shows the opposite is true. Pretty much everyone who trains thousands of students say quality red dots almost never break. Probably they break at the same rate as irons. Yes iron sights break/fall off too. So what a red dot gives you is TWO very reliable sighting systems instead of just one. So having one actually increases reliability.
I'll agree 💯👍
Be careful with auto adjusting. in pitch black surroundings it may not come on. That is how my CT is. Thats fine for a range gun. My carry and HD is a Holosun and it works awesome!!!
I just got a dot and enjoy it so far. Have an issue with getting to the lever for my light and question do I really need a light.
I think It’s good to have because you can lay low & hit your target without the target 🎯 spotting you
I carry a Walther PDP-F with a Holosun red dot. The Walther replaced my P320 as my EDC.
That and the X-Macro are the best CCW atm.
My Hellcat pro has a red dot, about ready to remove it. Every time I hit a bump in the road, it lights up like a Xmas tree exposing my concealment. Every other CCW is now red dot free
I love my guns full stock, the holosun SCS is the only red dot I love
Recommendations for a good dot for the shield plus?
Weight? The red dot sight is lighter than the metal taken off the slide to accommodate it.
I bought my first handgun at 21 and I wasn't even home from the gun store when I had my holosun hs507c and a olight baldrsBL on the way to my house. I did not want to even shoot it without everything on it because that is the only way I want to carry as a bigger guy.
We've all seen hundreds of shootings now with the advent of the internet. I can't recall a single one that convinced me i just have to put a red dot on my carry.
I don't run a red dot or light. It's just more to snag on when I really need a fast draw. And I'm a hell of a shot with iron site. That's my choice.
I'd say that could be the case with the optic but as far as the light? I'd say if you're in a quality kydex holster, there's really no more risk if snag drawing with a light on the rail than without one. Everything that's going to hit the light would already by out of the way since it's following the grip and trigger guard on its way out of the holster. And the benefit of a light and target identification far outweighs that negligible risk of the light getting snagged
I have red dots on a couple of shotguns and carbines, and they work great. I don't like them on pistols. I found I am faster and more accurate with good FOs on a pistol. And I'm not crazy about the extra bulk of a red dot either on a handgun. But hey, whatever works for you.
I never carry one, had one on a pistol it was nice but I shoot weekly and I’m just use to good night sights, as long as it’s a gun that I practice with I feel pretty comfortable. In a perfect world we would carry a gun with a red dot, laser, backup night sights, and a flashlight.
Finding the dot is slower than using iron sights for the average person.. A laser beats all of them because you can shoot from the hip, you can shoot from an angle, as long as you have the laser pointer where you want the bullet to hit you are good, also you can keep your eyes on the threat.. With an optical sights, your eyes must be right behind and aligned with the optical sight. I think optical sights are great for rifles. To each its own. I have seen things like this come and go.
You nailed it 🤜🤛
Lasers are worthless for pistols. Your obviously are not a shooter. Its ok though.
Laser is better than red dot for self defense. You won’t use either but you’ll be dead trying to see a red dot
@paulh6101 😂😂😂 yea ok....
@@paulh6101 You have obviously not properly trained with lasers. Its ok though, you do you.
Optics are cool..I prefer not to have one on my edc
I don't really care for red dots. I understand why people use them and they do have some advantages, but there are also downsides as well.
1. Cost, a good red dot optic isn't cheap. That money could be spent on ammo and just practicing being a better shot in general. Also, not all guns are MOS. So if your favorite carry gun doesn't have a way to mount an optic on it, now you've gotta spend money to have it milled...no thank you
2. Maintenance, that's just extra shit I have to worry about...like the fucking battery going out, like you specifically mentioned. 40 years ago could you imagine any serious gunslinger having to worry about a fucking battery going out on their gun in any capacity? How ludicrous...
3. Not all red dots are made equally. Suppose you don't like the one you put on your gun? Well that's another $250+ dollars you're going to have to spend to get another one. Even shit optics aren't cheap
I've had an rmr battery last for 3 years. With new optics they have top loading batteries so it's a none issue. Wow the maintenence to change a battery once every 2 years lol. The new acro has a 5 year battery life. About price, they way the industry is going, it's never been a better time to get a quality dot for a fair price. You can say buy more ammo but I belive if your taking your training as serious as you say then you would make the exception because the upsides blow it out of the water, having a dot over having a few 1000 rounds more of ammo.
@@willr4880 you're not taking into account ammo shortages or price spikes. What good is that red-dot if you can't even practice with it because 2020 happened all over again? Dry fire only goes so far
@@Mandalore863 you're using an outlier to prove your point about ammo. Buy all the ammo you want and never shoot it. I'm gonna continue to train with my red dots.
@@willr4880 actually...I do end up shooting my ammo. The reserved that I and everyone else *should* have are a just in case. I'd reckon I'm probably a better shot than a lot of folks who spend >$500 on decking out their carry pistol with the best optic, bells and whistles and maybe make it to the range every month or so lol
@Mandalore863 I'm sure your a guy who can burn it down. That being said, you with an optic is better then you without an optic.
I would never recommend to someone that they should NOT use a red dot optic. If that's what they are most comfortable with, it's mounted and sighted in properly, and they practice with it, go for it! I personally shoot much more consistently accurate (better groups and faster) with a red dot, but I still carry my EDC without an optic for a variety of reasons. It is a personal choice and not a "right way vs wrong way" debate.
Red dots are great on a rifle. On a carry gun I don't see the need. The distances that I would likely engage a threat is within 25-30 yards and even more likely inside of 10 yards, with the most statistically likely distance being under 5 yards. I'm a dinosaur and still just look at the front sight for combat shooting. If I'm going to take on threats 50 yards and beyond I'm going to the trunk and getting a long gun. I'm 62 and my eyes are not what they used to be but I'm still fine up close with Iron sights and a tactical flashlight in my left hand, not on the gun.
.. more likely under 10 feet ..
I think we're at the point that the question is now redundant. Red dots have a distinct advantage - namely, allowing one to shoot more accurately far easier - but they're not a necessity, and not everyone cares for them.
I vastly prefer red dots over irons. They are an honest teacher.
That’s the problem 300 bucks for a decent red dot another 100 bucks for higher iron sights to cowitness . Unless it comes with suppressor height sights
A red dot sight is a must have on a pistol. Everybody used to think that putting a red dot or an optic in general on a self defense rifle was a dumb idea and now it's not even debatable anymore and I think we're at the point now with pistol dots to where it's crazy not to have one. It gives you every advantage over someone using iron sights. No longer do you need to line up your front and rear sights or worry about how much sight alignment you have, just aim the dot on your target and you're ready to go. Plus nowadays, pistol dots are filled with competition and now many different brands are offering many different reputable red dot sights that are durable enough that you can depend on them for your self defense pistol. It's life and death, and I want EVERY possible advantage over my potential attackers.
. when an attacker grabs your shoulder from behind ,, or draws down on you from 5 feet ,, a red dot is NOT going to help you ...
I'm using the CT CTS-1550 a lot of people complain about it but when you don't have money to spend on a red dot as you do your gun I guess that's what you got to work with 😂 & Smith & Wesson puts them on their from the factory they can't be too bad & CT has always worked VERY well for me 🤷
I believe S&W recently purchased CT.
@@nmdesignco that will explain it lol... It's good enough for me to use. Looks 🆒 & stays true 🤷... It was on sale at PSA for $75 after tax I can't complain.
I'm putting a CT 1550 on a Ruger Max 9 tonight. I have a Holoson 407 on a Glock 43 X already. I don't see any disadvatage to the CT it does have the advantage of being a lot cheaper. As long as you are careful and don't bang it around you should have no issues. The CT has a plastic frame and won't take banging it around very well. Hope you enjoy yours !
@@barrygoodson4952 yeah I noticed that but hell half of our guns are made of polymer 😂 yeah that holosun & vortex are nice but whatever u kno? Haha. Hope yours works out good 4u also. Mine is on the 🛡️+
There is no industry standard for what a "good" red dot sight is.
Therefore, red dot sights do not belong on defensive pistols.
Also, red dot sights are useless for real world dynamic self defense.
For static recreational shooting, red dots are acceptable.
Incidentally, it is not necessary to focus on the front sight to use iron sights.
Target focus shooting can also be done with iron sights out to 15 yards!!
No I spent a lot of money on my red. And I'm changing the battery more than I use it
So It's just excepted now that whenever you buy a new g_n you have to be prepared to spend another $3-500 and even more for an optic system. But really, up to 10 yards or so I notice no real difference in accuracy. I did fine with iron for years before I started getting pressured by the industry to slap a red dot on every piece.
There's nothing wrong with running a red dot on a carry gun, but it's definitely not needed if you have adequate range/training time with your pistol. Most self-defense shootings happen so quickly and at such close range that it's more about situational awareness and grip/trigger control. Your support hand thumb should be pointing directly at the target with a proper grip. You won't have time to think much about your optic or sight picture.
It’s only worth it if you have a set of proper backup irons .
Especially co-witness. Totally agree with you. That is the way to go.
I agree with you but I also believe by the time you get done searching for a dot that you didn't realize was simply not functioning rather than you being misaligned and finally realizing it, it's too late... you need to fire that weapon because you are out of time.
Why do some people mount their site higher
To each is own , I prefer to carry my pistol undressed . Most people like the idea of improving , modifying and over accessorizing their firearm and rarely consider the downside to carrying a red dot, from batteries going dead , to fogging up , falling and breaking , snagging etc. In a point and shoot situation you certainly won’t be relying on a red dot . I shoot just fine with the iron sights. Red dot is great for target shooting , hunting or even home defense makes more sense.
.. for home defense ,, red dot ,maybe ,, but also consider a laser , useful from the hip ..
Beyond retention and point shooting, I’ve added RDSs to all of my EDCs. These aging senior eyes no longer can see a clear front sight.
People who are willing to put in the time and actually learn the correct way to shoot dots (which is focus on the target and not the dot) know a dot is better.
When I go back to irons it feels totally disconnected and un-intuitive.
I can’t shoot with both eyes open with irons, so I lose a lot of peripheral vision.
To me shooting a dot is point shooting. I point the gun, the target stays clear and a blurry dot appears on the target. Shooting irons my my eyes and focus are all over the place. Targets blurred. I feel like I’m almost underwater by comparison.
Shooting a dot is effortless by comparison.
Put the time in and learn the correct way.
What do you do when you draw your weapon and your dot malfunctions?
You shoot irons same way as dots. Target focused.
... To reiterate ,, I believe you are thinking of a laser NOT Mounted red dot ... NOT the same ..
A dot is certainly an advantage but one should always train well on irons, just in case.
.. irons or just "old west Point and shoot " ..
The red dot gives you a lot of feedback about your draw, grip, and trigger pull.
I don't mind optics for competition or plinking, but I'll never put one on my carry gun or my home defense gun. Not one that I trust to protect myself, family and friends. Too many points of failure. Laser, lens, screws, battery, etc... what about rain and snow on your lens? What if you drop it in the mud? Not gonna be faster if you have to wipe it off before every shot.
Question: if your CC needs its optics turned on, are you leaving them on the entire time you carry?
Yes the dot is left on. Some have battery life of well over a year. Still should change battery every year or sooner, depending on optic brand.
Yes it's left on.
The circle jerk for each side is insane in here. If you like dots and train with them, use it. If you’re stuck on irons/prefer them, then use them. Don’t need to shit on people for preferring one or the other
.. it's all about real world happenings .. are you defending yourself or trying out for the next John Wick movie ...
I have to be honest with myself. If a time came when I have to use it ,there's at least a 95 percent chance I won't have time to use ANY sights. I mainly put them on the gun because it looks cool.
It is necessary for those of us that have to use reading glasses. We can't see the front sight. The front sight is imperative to make hits. Red dots eliminate that need. Period
I just stick to my Ameriglo night sights
It depends on what gun you carry. On anything smaller than a Glock 19, no, in my opinion a red dot is useless.
Red Dot... Getting old, eyes getting old... Red Dot keeps me on target
.. try a laser ..
Once you get used to a dot it can really help 99% of people get that first round on target much easier and more quickly if they practice with it.
Doesn't everything come down to practice though. If you practice with irons isn't it the same result. (New shooter genuine question)
I learned on irons in the military and have used irons throughout my career in security. Haven’t really been interested in red dots.
I just recently went through an extensive day long defensive, training course. These guys are not keen on a red Dot on a defensive carry handgun. Generally you do not have the time to acquire your dot. They stress point shooting. After taking this day long class and firing over 450 rounds, I couldn’t agree more, a red dot it’s just an electronic sighting system that is going to break at some point in time whether it be the battery or it’s gonna come loose. Which is what exactly happened to my son-in-law during the course of the training. Sighting a dot verses irons are different enough that last thing you want to do is have to dance between them in a high stress situation in which your life maybe on the line. Now competitive shooting, that’s another matter.
You just defined cognitive dissonance. You admit it’s better by saying to use it to win a competition, but then say it’s not solely based on failure rate?
The vast majority of dots “fail” because of human error. The battery should never die, because it should be changed well before. Screws break or come loose because people don’t use locktite or properly torq them. Lastly they fail because people don’t confirm everything is good to go by actually shooting the gun. How do you know the gun you just bought is reliable? You shoot it, a lot. Same goes for a dot.
If you don’t trust it that’s fine, but your reasoning is flawed.
Lasers works well at nights and you are no longer limited to a sight picture.
Dots offer no advantage over iron sights at combat distances!
At this point, all pistols need a fed dot. My bill drills are better now than ever. I do admit it took a minute to adjust to a dot but its the way to go. If i had to make the shots that guy did in the mall a while back, id rather have a dot
.. maybe, but remember he was Not in a shootout ,, 40 ft. from the suspect ,, unknown until he fired ,, with iron sights .... sure a dot might have helped , but why not a scoped rifle ...
You're right! They need green dots
I tried a red dot for over a year. It was not for me. Never again. I'm a good shot. It did not fix anything and did not make me faster.
Red Dots because I refuse to drop common loot when I die 😂
I actually have a recurring nightmare that the people robbing my body pass over my Vacheron Constantin because “It’s not a Rolex”
.. for point and shoot ,, think Gunsmoke ,, draw and shoot from the hip ,, no extension ... red dots foe self defense are not a plus ...
I’ve been in some shootouts in my lifetime I’ve been shot 2 times with a handgun and once with a shotgun. Stabbed 17x. I will say most encounters you will encounter will be within 5 yards. I had some distance shootouts but most were in close quarters. I won’t say what ended up with the outcome. I found the wrong crowd in my 20s and lost half my lofe was surrounded by violence. It entailed to drugs to greed to be surrounded by power. I’ll sum it up with this. If you can carry carry. You want a red dot get one. But chances are you won’t need one. But they can help you train a lot better. If that dot goes dead. You may end up dead. So remember that if you rely on it.
It didn't seem to cause you any trouble, but my main concern is snagging on clothing during the draw.
Hegshot, do you really need a red dot on your carry gun. It's my understanding that the majority of gun fights are at close range like around three feet. In a life or death situation, I will just point and shoot, and I won't take time to line up a red dot. Now, on the guns that I target shoot with, I love my red dot but not on carry gun. I personally carry Smith and Wesson Shield Plus . I really struggle with this dilemma, but right now, I side on no red dot with carry gun, but sometimes I feel I am doing it wrong because so many people carry red dots on carry gun. Obviously, I have made my decision not to carry a red dot on carry gun, so why do I struggle with this choice or decision.
Shooting a dot is target focused. It’s literally point shooting. If you put the gun in front of you face properly a dot will appear and it should be blurry. It’s blurry because you should only be focusing on your target. In a self defense situation, what do you think you will focus on? The threat.
Peoples training goes out the window because they’ve focused on the front sight their whole lives, then when under trues stress their iron sights disappear because they are focused on the threat.
I don’t understand why people can’t grasp this.
With training, you can be proficient with irons or dots. With close range defense (within 15 yards), a dot will not give you an advantage.
If you choose a dot, you have to be diligent with battery maintenance and keeping it clean. I recommend getting XS, Tritium big dot sights if your sticking with iron sights.
Equal height equal light
You are only as good as your worst shot and an optic will make your worst shot better.
Green dots are easier to see in bright light and use less power for any given brightness level. (Physics of light)
Give me a break on the weight. If you can't handle 3oz more on subcompact you are probably not strong enough to carry a gun.
Yup, there are people who carry 40+oz guns and yet there are people who wine about 23oz guns.
Never understood it. A good holster in the proper position with a good belt I can hardly tell the difference of an extra 15-20oz let alone 2-3.
Everything is trending back to compacts because people have less confidence with micros.
Red Dots & Carry Guns, Do They Make Sense?
Personal preference. But for me, no. An optic adds bulk on a gun I am trying to hide and it is just one more snag point. I am not trying to shoot targets at longer distances either and I am not in a competition match trying to post the best accuracy. Iron sights are fine and accurate enough for close range shooting of a carry gun, nor do they lose zero, take batteries, or are affected by impacts or water.
I have made similar observations. It seemed the lenses were always dirty and covered with lint, the edge of the optic was always poking me, and it even came loose at one point (properly torqued with locktite). I also discovered while training from my carry position that even with a lot of practice my first shot was slower and less accurate with the optic than without. Of course, all of my "aimed" follow-up shots were faster with the dot.
If you can afford it, it doesn’t hurt to have
*Need* a dot? No. Are they beneficial? Absolutely, especially at distance. Just get a Holosun ror an RMR.
These aren't likely to be any advantage in a self defense situation. . In the vast majority of circumstances, your attacker is going to be close, almost always under twenty feet away, but usually less. I would much rather have a lazer on my pistol. For myself, open sights or lasers are much faster. .. Train properly for various self defense scenarios. .. A set of Ameriglo TFX pro sights are great in all lighting. .. I NEVER see any police, state or local, with optics on their pistols. Lastly, see a couple comments down from an actual career police officer (BIrdDogey1) in urban areas, for his take on this.
I Only Use Night Sights On My Handguns, Because They Don't Make Prism Optics For Handguns.
That Is Not A Dot; The Camera Bares False Witness.
I'm a skinny guy so optics print more
Dot is good for long distance and competition shooting, but for self defense, it makes no difference because of engagement distance and stress. In the presence of an immediate threat of death or great bodily harm, it is unlikely you won’t even use your sights. It will simply be a point and shoot situation. If you are engaging a threat at enough distance to where the dot is advantageous to you, you might want to consider the potential legal problems associated with that scenario.
How can you possibly know this?
That’s fallacious reasoning. If you were in court and said that you didn’t aim (use your iron sights) when firing your gun. Certainly the jury would deem that reckless.
Statistically most people will never need a gun, so why carry one?
Unless you are shooting from the hip, if you aim (point) properly the dot will be in your vision. That’s called confirmation. With irons, sight alignment needs to happen to get confirmation.
So what’s easier and more responsible?
Pointing your gun getting instant confirmation or pointing your gun just hoping that being in the right direction and in the general area of your target?
Just because you can and it’s possible doesn’t mean it’s responsible and you should based on limited reasoning.
@@96stealth You are right that most people will never need to use their gun in self defense. I would certainly hate to live in a world where most people need it. As a result, neither you or I know what is like to actually be in that situation. Based on my knowledge of being in other stressful situations though, you will most likely react to the threat without even remembering all of the details of the encounter. That’s why they tell you to not answer questions by the police immediately without counsel. You won’t remember how many rounds you fired, and to think you are going to have the time and presence of mind to line up your sights in most scenarios is absurd. The situation that requires you to pull you firearm and even more discharge it, is one that is the difference between you walking away or being carried away. You can tell a jury or a judge whatever you need to after the fact. The important thing is for you to understand that you did what you had to preserve your life. I have already considered the types of scenarios that would cause me to have engage someone with my firearm, and they are very limited. I don’t put myself in risky circumstances. I have a responsibility to avoid conflict while carrying a gun. Therefore, the times I will need it are going to be those when I am not going to have the time to line up the perfect shot. It’s probably going to be at close range where point and shoot is going to be sufficient to stop the threat.
@@sg696 You missed my points.
A dot doesn’t require any alignment. I also never claimed you need a precise shot. A flash sight picture of a dot on a body is way better than zero conformation. You may as well just close your eyes. Shooting a dot is literally point shooting, just with conformation. Why is this so hard to grasp?
Variables are endless. Some people are greatly affected by stress and some aren’t at all. So what? But you want to default to not even trying to confirm where your shots are going to go and make the assumption that everyone won’t have the “time” and won’t be able to handle the stress.
That’s not reality or responsible.
@@96stealth ... "Doesn't require any alignment?" .. Sir , you obviously have NEVER fired a firearm with a Dot Optic ... Red, green , blue or yellow ...
... to be fair ,, I think you are thinking of a laser dot ....
Yeah for people that don't know how to shoot.
Never
No